veteran-class

[tame lodge]

Smite left side iirc

[tall torrent]

but like

[tepid otter]

Oh okay

[tall torrent]

what weapon is it even good for lol

and u still need enfeeble to make it anywhere decent in dmg

[tame lodge]

Unironically Shock Maul

[tall torrent]

meh

[tame lodge]

Hey it interacts with mass

So higher stagger reduces enemy mass

Deimos stab is high stagger

But what survives a stab

[tall torrent]

shock maul is not high stagger

[tame lodge]

Yeah but it can get there

Some of the folks used with knife for horde purpose

But it's psyker so hordes are whatever

Devil's Claw 1

[fresh dome]

With the changes to Vigilant Rifle, I'm really enjoying dispatching Snipers or Plasma Gunner quickly.

[tame lodge]

Who do I have to bribe so they can add shock and awe to it

[remote sonnet]

Does the parry on the DSword do more damage than the Dclaw?

[tame lodge]

Nope

Unless flak

But

Dueling Sword has precognition

[remote sonnet]

Dsword is just stronger overall.

[cunning haven]

it could be broken, but it would be really funny if recon lasgun had ghost

[fresh dome]

How is DSword since the nerf to all it's stats?

[remote sonnet]

Because they might have made the Dclaw absolutely worthless if its parry is weaker than Dsword.

[tame lodge]

Still S tier

💀

[remote sonnet]

With parry, it is even easier to fight vs captain/melee Lt and some monstrosities.

[cunning sandal]

So, friends.

How we building with the new Bolt Gun and Bolt Pistol variants?

[tame lodge]

I'm not

[tall torrent]

the new boltgun is somewhat interchangeable with mk2b on most builds, it just does diff things
the new boltpistol however, I can't find any reason to use it after the stagger bug got fixed

[cunning sandal]

Fair

Quick question:
away from my PC atm, so I can’t test, but does anyone know if the AOE from the new Bolt Gun variant will stack Pinning Fire for each enemy staggered via the AOE?

[tall torrent]

yes

[cunning sandal]

Peak

[tepid otter]

very peak

Actually does it work the same way for Shattering Impact

[cunning sandal]

No

That’s only on impact

[tepid otter]

Aww, sadge, but okay

[cunning sandal]

Not really sadge

[tepid otter]

I have Pinning Fire and Puncture on it atm

[cunning sandal]

AOE Brittleness on Vet would destroy the game

[tepid otter]

The bleed most often just finishes them off after 3 or 4 shots

[cunning sandal]

Throw a Shredder Nade

Fire a few Bolt Gun shots

Everything dies

No contest

No fun

No challenge

So it’s very good that it doesn’t apply Brittleness in an AOE

[tepid otter]

Fair, thought it'd be one of those meta things you could take into havoc or something

[tall torrent]

unfortunately all 4 new weapon variants this patch are meh at best

[cunning sandal]

I’m enjoying the Power Falchion at least

It just feels better than the Power Sword

Especially considering Power Sword dodges are

horrible

so so horrible

[tall torrent]

testing the actual stagger breakpoints on it after stagger bug got fixed gave me great sadness

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/kingpin-kingpin-clicking-pen-clicking-pen-spider-verse-into-the-spider-verse-gif-5180708998338482135

[tidal tartan]

I am also enjoying falchion

[tepid otter]

Me three

Still can't decide which mark is better tho

[fiery raft]

what does the falchion function as?

Like is it a horde clearer?

[tidal tartan]

I always wanted a melee that felt like a backup weapon (as melee's usually are in games) and the falchion feels so good to whip out when surrounded

[mortal aspen]

I was discouraged from using it when I heard it performs much worse than psword

the powerup mechanic is still awkward, even the relic blade one
i'd rather keep using Rashaad if it's more or less similar

[tidal tartan]

Honestly with power up it's just good

the mechanic just makes it run out of gas

it does everything

but for a limited time'

which feels balanced compared to some options that do everything all the time

[hollow ibex]

i love how much power falch embodies vet

wait literally years for a new unique weapon

it comes

it's mid as fuck

if not straight up bad

[tidal tartan]

This feels great for a secondary melee imo you just swipe around thoughtlessly and make space

[tame lodge]

Decapitator

[hollow ibex]

decap 💀

[tame lodge]

[tidal tartan]

heh

I am a wetawd

but again I literally pull out my melee twice a mission

it's bad for primary use

Bad™

Purely for chaff clear with stacked crit talents

[hollow ibex]

power falch has the unfortunate combination of both needing the bottom right talents AND also being best suited as a sidearm for ranged builds

really impressive how much fatshart managed to fuck this up

[tidal tartan]

If you need this anyway for a ranged build then it's fine

[hollow ibex]

yeah no onslaught is shit too

[tidal tartan]

I only use the torrent lasgun

it's the one weapon its good on

[hollow ibex]

it's also good on vraks IAG

but i don't think it's worth taking in any situation basically

esp with how much hp crushers have now

[tidal tartan]

40% rending is really WHAT?

huh?

wouldnt more crusher hp make a debuff more worth it?

if they take longer to kill it is a straight onslaught buff

[mortal aspen]

you don't want to shoot crushers most of the time

[tidal tartan]

oh I see

[mortal aspen]

(I do it because it's funny in Auric)

[tidal tartan]

my whole build is being able to shoot crushers

so respectable

[hollow ibex]

just melee them

[tidal tartan]

ranged is safer + kraks

[tropic notch]

Recon only vet is a meme

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's like the infernus staff of psykers

but weaker

[mortal aspen]

IAG only Vet

[tidal tartan]

get witht he times old man

game was patched

[void dragon]

I just wish some weapons like the Heavy swords overhead could kill crushers in a labouring week

[tidal tartan]

maybe not on havoc 40

but recon vet auric is free wins

while asleep

[mortal aspen]

I wish the game was balanced so that Heavy Sword not killing crushers wasn't considered bad

[hollow ibex]

true...

[mortal aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-smoking-blunt-blehskibidi-gif-4336732105413285679

[tidal tartan]

I actually enjoy crushers requiring team utility options like nades or a specific crusher killing loadout, I think it's too bad there are so many melees that just two tap them

[mortal aspen]

yeah

[tidal tartan]

ut honestly

[void dragon]

I'm fine it being slow, but with how bulky they are now it feels like PAIN (also it being weak Vs the rager goon squad is annoying)

[tidal tartan]

thats just what you said

tbh

[void dragon]

Would make weapons like helbore and Hsword combo kinda fun

[tall torrent]

turn sword on to experience 60% of rashad for 15s

[tidal tartan]

I played a lot of Arbities revolver chrusher oneshot and it felt really fun to line up a headshot in the heat of the moment knowing if I missed I had to fucking gtfo

[void dragon]

And it doesn't stagger rangers with push attack, BOY I see why ppl like this thing

[tall torrent]

it's also like straight up 1/2 of power sword's dps
and unfortunately dps does reign when the discrepancy is that large

[tidal tartan]

Crushers are a great enemy type I honestly just wish all melee's dealt very little damage to crushers by default and you had to either build into rending or take anti armor nades

[void dragon]

The thing is that melee weapons can be bad at something but they can't be hopeless

[tidal tartan]

Tbh

kinda wish they were

maybe its just because I play a lot of other games

but I wish melees just literally dinked off these guys with no effect

[hollow ibex]

nah

the only problem melee has with crushers

[tidal tartan]

idk

[hollow ibex]

is that there shouldn't be shit like PS that can 2 shot them even on new HP levels

melee should be effective against crushers

[tidal tartan]

I played a ton of arbites shock maul and just heavy>light>specialed crushers and oneshot the,

[hollow ibex]

because it's a risk to get close to them

it's just that some weapons are too effective

[hollow ibex]

ASM is one of them

[void dragon]

Psword damage is quite dumb, and on top of it it's swings can stagger ragers

[hollow ibex]

duelling sword of arbi

[tidal tartan]

yeah I know

idk idk idk man

I just wish horde clear weapons couldnt also oneshot the opposite of hordes

the polar opposite

[void dragon]

Yeah, the elite bullying weapons should be weaker Vs swarms

Psword only drawback is that is Hella slow

[tidal tartan]

When i saw the dueling sword at first I was like perfect they made a weapon with zero horde clear that only damages big guys with heavies

lol

[void dragon]

Thing is that when you have such mobility you no longer care for those problems, because you can outrun them

[tidal tartan]

||That's why mobility in games is almost always bad|| who said that

I play a lot of mobas and I hate mobility it's always a way for adderall tweakers to ignore game mechanics by deciding they don't matter because they flew across the screen and ignored everything

[void dragon]

||Tracer and scout laughing at us because they can get away as they want||

[tidal tartan]

My weapon deals no damage and is supposed to suffer in these circumstances but I move 20% faster than the horde so whatever stats they gave this weapon genuinely dont matter I just run away and hold m2

[tidal tartan]

Scout has the ability to choose fights and juke tf2's extremely hit/miss weapons

tracer hits her ability and undoes the engagement

they are not the same

[void dragon]

But they both can leg it if they don't want to deal with their problems

[tidal tartan]

Scout does't have a "go back in time" button and a nuke ult, he needs to actually play to his strengths at all times

Overwatch makes me cry dont get me started

Uh veteran topics we love lasguns we love crits we love nades simple as

[fiery raft]

thanks

[hollow ibex]

i really want to like power falch

i take it even though it's pretty shit

[hybrid plover]

Onslaught for some melee weapons can actually make a decent difference

[hollow ibex]

taxe is prob the only one i can think of tbh

[hybrid plover]

Like tac axe since you attack so fast that the brittleness adding up can actually affect adms considerably

[hollow ibex]

yeah i could see that

[hybrid plover]

Knife is also a good one if you don't want to use uncanny and try to make it more generalist.

[tepid otter]

was actually just choosing between which weapon to max next, shockmaul or taxe

[hybrid plover]

Since even 10% brittleness/rending actually makes a noticeable difference.

[hollow ibex]

🤮

not taking uncanny on knife

do i look like path

[hybrid plover]

I will not fall for the uncanny meta any longer

[turbid ibex]

Yes actually

Like uncanilly similar

[tall torrent]

tac axe has 1 or higher ADMs vs everything except carapace
and crit make more difference for it than rending

[meager echo]

Watching mr.e on stream literally shit talk smoke nade gave me brain rot.

[hollow ibex]

you knew what you signed up for

don't lie

[faint beacon]

Tanner or Mr.E you should know better

[hybrid plover]

Tru but there's not much more you're doing for crit chance than using reciprocity and at the very least, it feels noticeable on crushers. Esp with serrated

[void dragon]

Mr E is a smoke hater? i know he was not great but that's a friendship ender if i heard one

[faint beacon]

I’m a prominent all vet blitz’s are good

[meager echo]

Watch his havoc stream man, If he take smoke he would not hard stuck h35

[hybrid plover]

Mr. E unironically called shock maul a tier

That was all I needed to hear

[faint beacon]

Shock maul or Arby

[void dragon]

Shock maul is funne, but in a world where Psword exist? not A tier for sure

[faint beacon]

Every melee is lesser before Powersword

[tall torrent]

I think atm the tier0 melee roster is the biggest it's ever been

[hybrid plover]

Regular

[void dragon]

Tier 0? like "oh god please stop its already dead" tier?

[meager echo]

I do think the agni shock maul is strong. His team kill captain and twins really fast with it. I think it's a niche weapon.

[void dragon]

i remember Sir E said that he like shock maul because it kills captain shields fast, but is that even true?

[keen sedge]

Hello roughnecks, psyker main here asking what is the dump stat for laspistol

[meager echo]

it's true, I can clip it. Really good into twins or captain

[austere mica]

Yes

The tweaks to it in battle for tertium make it really good for killing shields

[hybrid plover]

It's true. But other than that, it's still mid at best

[void dragon]

Dump stability

[void dragon]

yeah, a B tier imo, its ok, and skullcrusher + anti shield can be a neat tool, but doesnt strike me as an A tier

[rancid egret]

May I have some rations, Sah?

[void dragon]

have you kicked the balls of 40000 heretic captains yet slab?

[rancid egret]

YES.

Assassination missions are my favorite, Sah.

The Emperor sees our good work.

[void dragon]

WONDERFUL, you are halfway for your daily cuota, you can have one copse starch big man

[tall torrent]

tier 0 as in the best of the best

[rancid egret]

Thank you, Sah.

[hybrid plover]

So yes

[void dragon]

we have Psword, Rashad, the usual suspects of knife DS, what else is there?

[hybrid plover]

We've really went the route of Modern Warfare 2 balancing

If everything is overpowered, nothing is

[tall torrent]

power sword
knife
duelling sword
force greatsword
force sword
pickaxe
bully club
arb shock maul

[tidal tartan]

In his recent vet guide he said smokes were big brain meta

[void dragon]

DS is STILL broken and i HATE It, specially that now it took the place of the DClaw

[meager echo]

both twins in 30s is really fast

[hollow ibex]

fatshart truly hates dclaw lol

give it a bunch of pointless buffs

weapon still shit

gives the ONE unique feature to dsword

[tall torrent]

if u haven't tried yet superiority is top tier on force sword rn as a melee backup for staff builds

superiority gains stack on any elite/specialist kill as long as u have melee in ur hand

[hybrid plover]

Fatshark, just give the damn dclaw armor damage

I'm begging

This game is not what it used to be anymore

[tall torrent]

obscurus kills crusher in 3~4 hits depending on crit RNG on staff build lol

[hybrid plover]

And they know this lmao

[tidal tartan]

wtf?

[tall torrent]

notice how 0 of zealot's exclusive melee weapons are in here

yea

[tidal tartan]

am i stupid or what because I thought the caps always instagained their shields back when below thresholds

[tall torrent]

twins are mechanically diff from captains

[meager echo]

cap has that, twins have 10sec shield down

[void dragon]

Superiority Uncanny for Obscurus?

[tidal tartan]

oh mb

[meager echo]

so agni maul into captain is even stronger

[tall torrent]

yea

[tropic notch]

Thammer has gotten better

And relic blade

[hybrid plover]

It's really easy to melt Rodidn't and Rindidn't compared to captain

[tall torrent]

if relic blade had perfect strike it could prob be tier 0

[faint beacon]

Captains have a HP treshold where their shield will regen the moment you hit a certain amount

[meager echo]

it's havoc 30+ in the video

[faint beacon]

twins can be staggerlocked to death without a shield activating once

[tall torrent]

thunder hammer is uh
I really want to like it but it has problems

[tropic notch]

I’m ngl i hate the heat mechanic on relic

[tall torrent]

I think it's the best niche tier 1 melee

because it's so good at 1 thing

[tropic notch]

Guh

[hybrid plover]

It's too good at one thing and not great at everything else.

[faint beacon]

Where does power falchion rank

[blazing jetty]

One time I brought rinda's health to zero with an eviscerator charge before the final fight and she just despawned

[tropic notch]

I’m loving it

[tall torrent]

tier 2?

[faint beacon]

cause I assume its a 0-4

ranking system

[tropic notch]

And what Is teir 0

[tall torrent]

@tropic notch

[tropic notch]

Guh

[tall torrent]

tbh combat axe prob closer to tier 1?

[faint beacon]

What would the worst of the worst be then in Tier listing

[tropic notch]

Rashad ij is pretty crazy

[faint beacon]

like 3?

[tropic notch]

I’d say zealot makes it 0

[hybrid plover]

Dclaw probably went down that road with this patch to be honest

[tall torrent]

dc sword prob

flak enemy buff mainly

kills it

[tropic notch]

Dclaw…

[faint beacon]

which already struggled at

and then DS kinda just

kicked him out of his cardboard box

and took it into it's mansion

DC needs so much help its depressing

[void dragon]

i want my Catachan blade to be good damnit ObeseFish

[hybrid plover]

Honestly might as well just take it out of the game at this point with where this game's balance is

[void dragon]

[hybrid plover]

Unless they outright overhaul it entirely.

[faint beacon]

its a pretty iconic starter melee I'll be honest

[hybrid plover]

They keep making these little adjustments without actually fixing the fundamental problem with it.

[faint beacon]

they'll have to completely rehaul it tragically

[hybrid plover]

And it's just confusing.

[faint beacon]

Cause DS straight up stole its job

bar for bar

[tropic notch]

The dclaw was my fav weapon on Xbox release

[hybrid plover]

It's sad because I think it's a genuinely good feeling weapon.

[void dragon]

Lets give DS a counter to TOTALY nerf it because that is something we totally never used before -ObeseFish balance team, probably

[hybrid plover]

Until you run into anything thats armored.

Then it just isnt.

[faint beacon]

I think they should genuinely make it fit a Machete type niche where its just generally a jack of all trades melee but kinda struggles against carapace for obvious reaons (A bladed weapon should struggle against Cara)

but then we're creeping into Heavy Sword 2

[tropic notch]

I believe crit help counter it’s downfalls

[tidal tartan]

I'd pay a million dockets + a million plasteel + a million diamantine to have a female model that doesn't look like a busted 50 year old whore

[tall torrent]

at least psyker got more op
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/14310237860112186895/A97813080B2FFD0F75F1BA0295A8332E9C5C39BA/

[tropic notch]

It’s supposed to be a knife right give it assassin

[faint beacon]

truth nuke

[hybrid plover]

Here's my crazy take.

Stop making carapace weakspots. Give crushers a weak spot that isn't carapace.

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-warhammer-40k-grenade-truth-nuke-gif-6248133608324632914

[tall torrent]

nah

[narrow frost]

that is an insane take

cara is meant to change your combat

[faint beacon]

If you're gonna give crushers a weakness at all it should be only legs

but I think they are

literally

perfectly fine as is

They're meant to be Pseudo-Tanks

[tidal tartan]

Plasma gunners having carapace heads feels too meta defining to me

[faint beacon]

2000 HP, Flak chest

they used to have way more

[tidal tartan]

Ah I have an idea lets make carapace damage more valuable

this will help game balance

[tall torrent]

they have 1800 flak body

used to be 1900

[hybrid plover]

Then why even have these weapons that are just outright useless against cara.

Like not every weapon should just shred it. But the fact that they insist on making the balance dictated by this one armor type and then proceed to make weapons that cannot hold up is just a confusing design decision.

[faint beacon]

Explains why the fold like a deck of cards against a Tac Axe now

[meager echo]

I think the best change is making every weapons has combo that deal sufficient dmg to carapace. And not making any weapon only for anti carapace purpose.

[tidal tartan]

lets make low damage high weakspot damage weapons then have all weakspots be carapace they have a 0.05 dmg multiplier against

the most effective spot to shoot enemies on a weakspot build should obviously be the chest!

[austere mica]

revolver wins again I guess

[faint beacon]

If this is a drag against the Vigilants its because their base damage already does really good damage in general ever since their change

[hybrid plover]

This is so sad. Can we get a crusher squad in chat?

[faint beacon]

their not meant to take on crushers unless its specific builds on Veteran, the class that makes guns stronger

[tidal tartan]

Let's have a meta defined by ranged weapons dealing little damage to carapace then let a few ranged weapons deal 100% damage to carapace

And then lets define melee weapon viability by their ability to deal damage to carapace too\

[hybrid plover]

Then let's also have some melee weapons, which many agree that melee should be the ideal choice for an enemy like crushers, be completely useless against them

[meager echo]

I want to make specialist taller so we can shoot them through horde. Taking range weapon that can't cleave through horde feel so bad.

[hybrid plover]

Like I truly don't get it.

I'm not saying every melee should do a ton of damage but at least not be just, actually useless.

[void dragon]

seems interesting to sustain a loop of putting fire on everything and then going ape on melee at least

doesnt strike me as more reliable tho

[tidal tartan]

Useless carapace melees should just be good horde clears for when you take a good anti crusher ranged weapon

[meager echo]

But then it's very hard to balance the game, people just shoot through everything.

[tidal tartan]

||Maybe the game in 40k should be balanced around shooting through most things||

[meager echo]

You already see how they try to balance range in havoc in a very tedious way, reduce ammo gain.

[tidal tartan]

Meleeing literally everything has always been weird and a dodge spam knowledge check. Reducing ammo gain would be a fine way to balance things if everyone didn't share a universal ammo type and % replenishment.

[meager echo]

TBH at this point I don't even know how to balance the game. The problem is too complicated.

[tidal tartan]

The game should just be fun

Instead of reducing ammo for everyone making their secondary slot shitty to use they should just introduce reduced ranged weapon modifiers into the gamemode

It's the same effective net outcome but doesn't disallow people from playing the actual game the way they want

teehee your weapons WOULD work but you have zero ammo pickup so you just cant use it

[faint beacon]

You use your guns mainly for Elite/Special interactions and your melee for Melee Units/Horde its that simple

[meager echo]

The game balance is out of whack not only for havoc but also for auric. In havoc you have no ammo, in auric everyone gun down everything before you can engage in melee.

[tidal tartan]

I introduce you to ten thousand elite/specials at once when your teammate picked up the large ammo pack 15 seconds ago

[faint beacon]

So you use your Blitz or position yourself correctly?

I dont see the issue

lmao

[tidal tartan]

The issue is meleetide is objectively better

[faint beacon]

That or coax the horde towards the members who have ammo to assist you

[obtuse raft]

I'm genuinely not trying to be a asshole but if you want to primarily shoot your way through missions there is a huge variety of games out there that aren't built from the ground up around melee for people who enjoy melee

[tidal tartan]

My issue is that people who don't want to use melee in a 40k horde shooter have no choice

[faint beacon]

Its funny because those supposed "Horde based ranged weapons" are also incredibly good at being anti-special/elite

its just learning the gun

Lmao

I mained Vigilants for ages before they got tweaked and even used them in H40

[obtuse raft]

Good tbh that's a completely different game you are describing

[faint beacon]

Psyker exists

like

thats the full blown 100% ranged class

not Veteran

[meager echo]

In auric, If there is gaze psyker or shotgun 3 arbites in the team. It's a very unfun game. They will kill everything before you can do anything.

[tidal tartan]

Do what man.

kill the enemies?

yesh.

[faint beacon]

Yeah?

[tidal tartan]

that's what they are doing too

you arent better than them for using melee

[hybrid plover]

that's not the issue

[tidal tartan]

ranged weapon balancing should be 'lol cant use that anymore'

[fast shale]

Only 3 vet melee weapons have uncanny strike?

[tidal tartan]

It is though

if they want to use ranged you are disparaging them for using it before you melee the enemies

[faint beacon]

Damnation+ including havoc limits ammo to encourage learning the melee combat loop so you, yourself as the player can learn the mechanics and movement of the game to avoid unnecessary damage

Unless you play the Infinite ammo class

[hybrid plover]

they specifically mentioned those sorts because those are an example of really overtuned cases

[faint beacon]

which is Psyker

[tidal tartan]

Ah so to use my ranged build I must accept ranged is stupid and gay and used melee instead

wonderful!

[faint beacon]

Its a Tide game

what did you expect Luigi

[tall torrent]

it lasts 7s and drops stack one at a time
u can just soulblaze kill a bunch of enemies and they'll stack it for sword as long as sword in hand

[tidal tartan]

Vermintide is fantasy

[faint beacon]

Thats been a huge core of the games

yes

[tidal tartan]

they use flintlocks and bows

I use a lasgun

this is NOT the same

[faint beacon]

Darktide is Futuristic but it still encourages melee combat heavily

so you can maintain your ammo when you really need it

[hybrid plover]

and it is genuinely boring when do have a team that's basically killing everything with overtuned ranged options that can outright make you unable to interact with the game's mechanics at times

it's the same reason people don't like the plasma gun

[tidal tartan]

"unable to interact with the game's mechanics"

They are playing a first person shooter

that IS the game's mechanics

[hybrid plover]

yes, and if they don't have something to shoot, are they actually playing it?

it's the same reason people don't like rumbler

[faint beacon]

Cookie clicker experience

[meager echo]

I think the problem is most enemy are design to handle players in melee combat. They are not design to gun fight you. I think it's a game design problem.

[tidal tartan]

A good melee system should not have to mean ranged balancing is "we can't let you use these because the melee kiddies need to spam dodge"

[hollow ibex]

yeah i mean there's a reason why your MELEE is your primary weapon, not your gun lol

[faint beacon]

Its because the game is meant to be a fast paced tide game

where you should be swapping between ranged and melee when the given opportunity arises

you save your ammo for the ranged threats and engage in melee when needed

[faint beacon]

Literally

[tidal tartan]

But it also has a build system where you tailor your character to how you want to play

[meager echo]

If there is a range weapon that is so good. It's will trivialse the game. Remember the quell cancel electro staff ? That's the perfect example.

[tidal tartan]

if you want to play melee only with a backup for snipers you're rewarded but if you want to play ranged only with a backup for people sneaking up on you you are punished

Yeah my quintessential ranged weapon is a 40 degree aoe cone 10 feet in front of me 👍

great point

Again

[faint beacon]

You literally had to find a new server cause your ass was not going to play

ever

thats how broken overpowered it was

[tidal tartan]

my main issue is that if youu want to play this game as a ranged character not only are you punished on higher difficulties but you genuinely grief your team mates by sucking up ammo like a leech

[hybrid plover]

well yeah because fundamentally, this is not a game that incentivizes using a gun all the time

[faint beacon]

so you change your ranged weapons to compliment your melee?

like I seriously dont see the point

[tidal tartan]

THIS IS 40K

I WANT TO USE A BOLTER

[faint beacon]

Yes

[hybrid plover]

And it's a tide game.

[tidal tartan]

I WANT TO USE A LASGUN

[faint beacon]

so you use the Bolter or Lasgun

[hybrid plover]

Which by the way, you can use shock troop and use a lasgun as much as you want

[faint beacon]

and compliment it with a Melee that assist the weakness

[tidal tartan]

Everyone plays 40k games to use a combat knife!

[obtuse raft]

You can, you just can't mag dump the horde over and over lol

[faint beacon]

Veteran has a lot of melee options if you're insisting on playing Vet with the class talent changes

[narrow frost]

Spacemarine is more ranged focused if you want

[faint beacon]

This is true

[hybrid plover]

I'm sorry, is this a complaint about melee being king, in a game series, where that has always been the case

[faint beacon]

it also offers both Bolt and las weapons

[tidal tartan]

yes!

thanks for noticing

[faint beacon]

You could just

play psyker

[tidal tartan]

I played vermintide 1 since release

[faint beacon]

the class known for being king at ranged

[meager echo]

I do think they handle range better in vt2 than in darktide.

[hybrid plover]

honestly a lot of things are handled better in vt2 than darktide imho but that's a story for another day

[tidal tartan]

Yes, veteran, a guardsman who is famously a melee tank shredder in 40k

[faint beacon]

Trench Raiding?

[tidal tartan]

behold, the weapon you will use 70% of the time! what? you wanted to use a lasgun as a guardsman? um... play a lower difficulty. We just make it so no ammo spawns higher up, so you can't use it.

[faint beacon]

You can also just use your gun to kill the actually important enemies

not chaffe

That's like THE Veteran gameplay loop

[tidal tartan]

.

[hybrid plover]

i mean lasguns are like

[faint beacon]

Recon lasguns

correction Knife gremlin

recon lasguns

[tidal tartan]

Yeah lets use our lasguns only for specials!!!!

[hybrid plover]

fair.

[tidal tartan]

Only for those big guys!

[obtuse raft]

...do you actually run out of lasgun ammo?

[tidal tartan]

Ammo balancing sucks

thats my thesis

Not on auric

obviously

[meager echo]

I think the most fun I have is havoc 20 to 30. The difficulty is just right. Challenging but not too hard. More density and bosses.

[tidal tartan]

you just shoot everything

If you have ammo you just clear the map

so in havoc they just dont give you ammo

wonderful balancing

[tacit sonnet]

Damn, the game is difficult and I have to use resources wise since they are limited. Such a shit game.

[tidal tartan]

That but unsarcastically

The game is difficult = I need to use my melee!

Game is easy = I use ranged

there is no issue with this!

[tacit sonnet]

What does this even mean

[hybrid plover]

I feel like the warp is making its way in here.

[tacit sonnet]

Bro is just an orc that has no concept of using everything you have or limited resources

[tidal tartan]

The cost of using a ranged build shold not be depriving teammates of resources

[faint beacon]

Again

[tacit sonnet]

non havoc missions have WAY more ammo than you would ever need

[tidal tartan]

if you forego reliable melee damage and survivability to deal damage at range you should be able to do so wihtout being a burdern

[faint beacon]

you could play Psyker

the infinite ammo class if you feel bad about it

[tidal tartan]

Youre 100% correct

[tacit sonnet]

havocs have just barely enough ammo for everyone if you are wise at using it

[hybrid plover]

or just use like

[faint beacon]

H40's as well

[hybrid plover]

shock troop

[faint beacon]

you just coordinate are do a Priority list

[red portal]

I mean psyker is just veteran with no ammo Regen.

[red portal]

[faint beacon]

Also Veteran has two ways to maintain more ammo

las weapons: Shocktrooper

and Survivalist Aura

Not to mention their insane talents that give them grenades

incredibly easy

[tacit sonnet]

also the talent that just gives you more ammo and grenades

[faint beacon]

Exactly

The frags on Vet are fucking insane

especially with the uptime they get now

[tacit sonnet]

and all the talents that imrove ranged damage making you the most efficient ranged weapon user

[sharp epoch]

infinite cleave too

[faint beacon]

If you can Aim!

but again

[hybrid plover]

tbf vet has that too

[faint beacon]

It encourages you hunt more dangerous enemies

aka anything thats an elite or special

[sharp epoch]

on a cooldown

and limited

[red portal]

Shredder frags my beloved

[hybrid plover]

cooldown meaning 3 melee kills

[meager echo]

I think it's all come down to the core design of the game. Enemies just can't deal with players constantly shooting at them. So the dev have to put some sort of balance on range weapons.

[tacit sonnet]

I still have no idea what bro's issue is. It sounds like he hates the concept of having ammo but, idk

[hybrid plover]

[sharp epoch]

db manstopper? it does like peanuts the damage drop off is insane

[hybrid plover]

WHAT

[tacit sonnet]

that's why you add bleed there

db is crazy

[tidal tartan]

I hate the concept that my auric builds are a detriment to my teammates on higher and more fun difficulties because the game balances ranged weaponry around not being able to use it

[sharp epoch]

db is there to buff your melee

[hybrid plover]

double barrel with manstopper and flechette is bonkers

[tacit sonnet]

Then stop sucking ass and stop being a detriment

[hybrid plover]

okay what

[tacit sonnet]

On auric you have way more ammo then you would ever need

[hybrid plover]

double barrel ws is straight up like, one of the best mixed horde clear ranged setups in the game

[tidal tartan]

The game is DESIGNED around my high ammo economy auric builds starving and doing nothing when you up the difficulty

[tacit sonnet]

veteran is capable of surviving PURELY off of survivalist procs and no other external ammo pick ups AT ALL

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-belly-rub-belly-slap-gif-11344238899365820282

the 50 billion DB Crit bleed stacks

[sharp epoch]

#veteran-class message

[upbeat rapids]

no, it isnt

[tacit sonnet]

No it's not

[sharp epoch]

1.5 mil is melee damage .5 mil is ranged damage

[tidal tartan]

It is

[tacit sonnet]

Then learn how to play the game

[midnight mortar]

What weapon are you using that you actually have this as a consistent problem?

[tidal tartan]

The game's answer to my auric shredding builds when you get into havocs is "what if he didnb't have ammo and couldn't use his build"

[tacit sonnet]

It's actually just straight up a skill issue

[upbeat rapids]

no, it isnt

[tidal tartan]

torrent recon

[tacit sonnet]

wtf

[sharp epoch]

Also db does not have enough ammo to keep bleeding like that in havoc at least

[tacit sonnet]

recon literally has infinite ammo

I don't think I EVER ran out of ammo on that thing

[tidal tartan]

clearly on aurics and low havoc

[tacit sonnet]

No matter what the fuck do I do

[faint beacon]

I mean yes and no

[tacit sonnet]

Actual MASSIVE SKILL ISSUE

[faint beacon]

you gotta balance it

[midnight mortar]

Sorry if you already have, but could you post your build?

[hybrid plover]

if that's with flechette, the ranged damage isn't all you're looking at

[faint beacon]

DB Flech Bleed is still pretty cracked

[tidal tartan]

Current? I change it a lot

[hybrid plover]

bleed isn't counted in that value

[void dragon]

Probably goated for Havocs yeah, will give the blessing to my obscurus since i run fire only with that sword

[tacit sonnet]

I don't bring recons to h40, it doesn't do enough damage

[faint beacon]

They're good in H40 mainly cause of shocktrooper uptime

[midnight mortar]

Whichever leaves you the strongest impression of that experience you mentioned before.

[faint beacon]

Helbores though are the best

[tacit sonnet]

h40 requires a very specific build or being fucking insane at the game which 99.9% of people aren't at that level

[meager echo]

With how they buff crushers and the tree change, las gun is weaker right ?

[tacit sonnet]

that's the point of h40

[sharp epoch]

I'd need ovenproof to include bleed, but I don't think bleed adds that much damage

[faint beacon]

Correct

dont feel bad if you only beat H40 once

[tacit sonnet]

If you don't like this idea, then you don't play h40

[faint beacon]

its THE HARDEST content in the game for a reason

[tacit sonnet]

it's as simple as that, you don't lose much

[midnight mortar]

Yeah H40 is restrictive by design.

[red portal]

Me with my zarona revolver and weapon specialist.

[upbeat rapids]

have you tried using less ammo?

[faint beacon]

its why the shit stops at H25+ for cosmetic unlocks

[midnight mortar]

I certainly wouldn't try to make a recon work there for example.

[tacit sonnet]

read the 2nd part of my message

[meager echo]

You can't take onslaught and shock trooper together anymore right? The node is too far apart

[tidal tartan]

I'm playing around with a toughness regen ranged build rn. I have infinite ammo on auric and shred everything on my screen but when I go to havoc I just starve. Then I play melee dodge in a circle and click heads until I get an ammo pickup and then I can play my build again

[faint beacon]

H35 offers a title more as a "You are the real deal"

[tacit sonnet]

you can

it's not the worst

[hybrid plover]

probably have to sacrifice something to path that way

[sharp epoch]

But the point is, infinite cleave on psyker is miles better than vets very limited infinite cleave

[hybrid plover]

well i mean yeah

psyker is just broken by design

[tacit sonnet]

holy dogshit

[red portal]

Even zealot flamer seems balanced by comparison

[tidal tartan]

Oh and I really have been having fun with the buffed keysone it feels great to play around

[sharp epoch]

H40 smite psyker outdamaging everyone is just bad game design, least skill build with the best results

[tidal tartan]

omh i didnt take shout

(my point)

[hybrid plover]

that is not even an issue anymore

[red portal]

It's funny cause smite psyker also slows down the game cause enemies no longer funnel into you

[hybrid plover]

executioner's stance stans rise up

lemme see those hands 🖐️

[tacit sonnet]

also you don't really need all 3 keystone modifiers

[red portal]

It's cannibalizing damage.

[tacit sonnet]

There are better talents

[meager echo]

I don't think anyone run smite in asian sv. It's too slow i guess.

[tidal tartan]

I drop rending but 60% more toughness from all sources is just awesome with the 50% toughness damage resist aboive 75%

[faint beacon]

I will admit EStance is fucking amazing now

[tidal tartan]

Again I change it a lot

[hybrid plover]

I CANT STOP USING IT

[faint beacon]

but I still like shout for the Crowd Control it offers

[red portal]

You want the stamina one for Deadshot other than that I don't think the marksman focus nodes bring much to the table

[sharp epoch]

It actually is clearing fast with scrier's gaze, its not necesarily a slow build

[tacit sonnet]

yea

I would just run it keystoneless

[faint beacon]

You dont even need MMF

[meager echo]

Then I'm at that weird part of the world

[tacit sonnet]

also no tactical awareness

[faint beacon]

Recon literally does not benefit from MMF

[tidal tartan]

I cannot stress enough how much marksmans focus was buffed

[tacit sonnet]

terrible

[faint beacon]

its incredibly small benefits vs

[tacit sonnet]

it was buffed

[faint beacon]

Focus Target

[tacit sonnet]

but recon does no damage

[tidal tartan]

not true

[tacit sonnet]

You just burn things in the end

[faint beacon]

Focus Target is the only keystone that offers a "Bit" of a benefit to Recons

[sharp epoch]

estance melee vet is how theyve balanced vet

[tacit sonnet]

focus target is just better

[tidal tartan]

huh???

[tacit sonnet]

and you don't even need a keystone, keystoneless is still very viable

[tidal tartan]

You sneed to graduate from recons being a burn applicator

[tacit sonnet]

and is a decent choice

[tidal tartan]

the future is now

[hybrid plover]

the issue with recon with mmf is that recon itself doesn't the highest base damage

[red portal]

Marksman focus works for the hellbore and that's all I've really seen succeed with it so far.

[tacit sonnet]

Recon is literally the only gun I use on vet

[faint beacon]

Correct, so it scales extremely minimally

[sharp epoch]

I think it's the finesse multiplier which is like zero

[red portal]

Though I do need more testing with it

[tacit sonnet]

And I know that it doesn't do much damage

[tidal tartan]

isnt that only on weakshot criticals

[tacit sonnet]

Literally half of it's damage is burn

[tidal tartan]

bodyshot criticals are 45%

[red portal]

Think it can do some funny stuff with the revolver aswell.

[hybrid plover]

finesse is a mixture of crit and weakspot

its base finesse is really bad

[tidal tartan]

Yeah...

I know...

[red portal]

Heavy laspistol can benefit from marksman focus aswell

[hybrid plover]

at least the really fast firing one is

[tall torrent]

it's a brain dmg playstyle
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/15586717318402797243/3FFD1B0FFB04D560289F79053D6A8677E1A15710/

[hybrid plover]

maybe there's an argument to be made about the other marks but i tried the slower one with mmf just to try and it still felt

[sharp epoch]

heavy laspistol does some nasty headshot damage

[red portal]

Kinda tempted to bring a exe stance laspistol build into 40

[hybrid plover]

eh?

[red portal]

I am definitely getting accused of trolling

[calm shard]

not a bad weapon for it

thing hits like a freight train on headshot

exe stance gives weakspot damage

[hybrid plover]

people probably see exe stance alone and think it's trolling

[hollow ibex]

looks like you were being carried hard by the smyker

[calm shard]

plus good boss damage

[hybrid plover]

but little do they know.......

[sharp epoch]

I saw a pmaul ogryn thought he was trolling, but he did like the second best he held his own

[sharp epoch]

yeah shock psyker is literally broken this patch again they got a buff

[orchid hemlock]

OOOHOOHH HOAHHOHOHOOHOHAHHAAA

[tall torrent]

yea psyker op

[sweet marten]

Does Shock trooper and Opening Salvo work well together?

Does it work for the actual ammo% so you can just permantly sit with the extra 10% crit chance for the first 20% ammo if you have amazing luck?

[void dragon]

good or bad brain damage? (im assuming its good because it looks dumb funny)

[tall torrent]

press F
play zealot pro max plus with every important enemy 50m near u highlighted

[void dragon]

Glorious

[tall torrent]

I'm playing event to do 50 lights out + 1500 plasma gunner kill penance

[calm shard]

mag size

it is the first 20% of your magazine is +10% crit

[sweet marten]

which lazgun would it work best on?

[calm shard]

helbore by miles

followed by laspistol, then infantry lasgun, then recon

but it's not like good on any of them

20% of your magazine is just not a lot

and it's only 10% crit which is kinda sad

[midnight wyvern]

use it on bolter

https://tenor.com/view/cat-waddle-waddler-the-waddler-waddle-cat-weird-walk-gif-9738668264510949101

[sweet marten]

I dont delve into the lasguns as i use plasma but i want to try builds with them for both boss/elite dmg and horde clears

I figured shocktrooper is helpful havoc 40

[midnight wyvern]

not used terribly often

las guns that is

[fair shale]

Normally when you see a vet in higher havocs they have plasma

[midnight wyvern]

any of them, hellbore is probably the most used and its barely used as far as ive seen lol

[fair shale]

Id agree tbh

I never see Kants

[midnight wyvern]

Plas or Bolter yeah

[fair shale]

I've seen recons but those taper off once you hit 25+

[midnight wyvern]

they're good but require people playing around them or you being exceptional to perform the same as just taking plasma

[sweet marten]

I run plas in havoc but i wanna try something different so

[midnight wyvern]

I had a recon scriers psyker earlier trying to take it into 33 and was getting rolled

[sweet marten]

i tried the new bolter variant but its kinda iffy

[midnight wyvern]

would've been more useful if they did no damage and had bubble lol

[hybrid plover]

personal recommendation

[fair shale]

Actually ive seen more recons on psykers than vets in havoc, yeah

[hybrid plover]

agripinna combat shotgun

it's really good actually

[fair shale]

Seconded

I was trying it out on Arb earlier cause someone recommended it

Surprisingly good

[midnight wyvern]

agri CS is poggies

[sweet marten]

shotguns feel iffy for me, what build would be required to use

i switch between shout and stealth

[midnight wyvern]

I use Bolter bossing build and get "wtf" almost every match with randoms

works in 40 because if you uninstall bosses in 2 seconds you no longer need to deal with them and then you're just playing vet, so you just kill specials and elites like normal

[red portal]

The assail scrier psyker is either the worst or the best player you've ever seen.

[midnight wyvern]

only seen 1 dude on OCE that I was like "damn what is he running"

and they had assail

everyone else just falls over

[tall torrent]

exe stance makes shotguns way more consistent

[midnight wyvern]

MMF is probably overkill with them but it is funny

I just wish their special shots worked a bit more smoothly

[fair shale]

Im ngl it makes me mad they work this smoothly

[red portal]

Does loading the special benefit from reload speed effects?

[sweet marten]

Heavy Laspistol build viable for havoc 40?

[fair shale]

Ik loading the special counts as a reload for arbs withering fire so I have to assume yes but I don't know firsthand

[red portal]

I mean there are probably better alternatives but yeah you could make it work.

[sweet marten]

if i wanted to win id just stick with plasma and ds

but i at least wanna have fun while i lose with a viable build that doesnt cripple the team haha

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/space-marine-warhammer40k-tactical-marine-bolter-adeptus-astartes-gif-16749240

[tall torrent]

yea

[sweet marten]

okay so

new variant bolter

really good boss dmg on weakpoints

but

blue stim gas rager....

:(

[red portal]

Blue stim ragers are evil.

[midnight wyvern]

wot

[sweet marten]

3 of them standing in a corner causing the whole team to halt for 5 mins

[livid sphinx]

Any asians in the chat?

[gilded rock]

As long as you keep clicking heads I'm sure it works

Hlasp damage when click head vs. when no click head is leagues ahead

Makes or breaks the weapon

[calm shard]

directly inferior to regular bolter sadly

[calm shard]

click head Or crit

orboth

[livid sphinx]

Executioner's stance and Marksmanship focus is so much more fun now ngl

[calm shard]

laspistol can potentially run into problems in high havocs because of plasma gunners

[gilded rock]

Deadshot gaming

[tall torrent]

crit vs flak is good

[sweet marten]

if only there was a shock trooper talent for uncharged plasma shots

[gilded rock]

Today I will make plasma even more busted

[sweet marten]

nono its a nerf

trust

:)

[violet yacht]

how we feel bout the power falch after a bit?

[hybrid plover]

meh

[tame lodge]

Still mediocre

💀

[sweet marten]

ive got it with the heat blessings

I mean its alright

still prefer DS and DC

[hollow ibex]

kinda shit sadly

it's usable

but horde clear isn't great powered

and it's total dogshit unpowered

you would think they wouldn't make that same mistake again

coming from the powersword

[tame lodge]

At least they didn't make the mistake of being Falchion 24/7

[fair shale]

Yk I ran into a guy

Who was telling me they loved the new power falchion

Its a great weapon

Fantastic to use

And then later they also said

"Could you protect me, I kinda get fucked up if more than 10 poxxies come around"

And ik part of that is on game skill

But goddamn did it make me not wanna use the PFalc lol

[hollow ibex]

it's ok when it's powered tbf

but when the power is off

you might as well just switch to your gun or run for your life lmao

[fair shale]

I really regret not asking what they liked about it now

[willow prairie]

they like the illusion of using a good weapon

[tame lodge]

"Fun"

[sweet marten]

'heat mechanic'

[tame lodge]

Such a great coping mechanism

[sweet marten]

no more power activation spam

monkey paw ah

[fair shale]

If i got my ass beat on the reg by 10 poxxies i dont think id be having fun

Idk man

[sweet marten]

watch PS get a rework into heat mechanic

[fair shale]

Camouflage vets

[tame lodge]

Nah

[tall torrent]

it won't

[tame lodge]

Psword is too good

[primal zealot]

pee sword but its always on

[tame lodge]

If they reworked they'd have to make it less good

And well

[fair shale]

I kinda doubt they'll do much to PS atp

I remember when that thing got touched the first time

[tame lodge]

There's history on making Psword less good

[fair shale]

Whew boy

People were not happy

[primal zealot]

they coukd make pee cycler last more than 2 swings

[sweet marten]

heat mechanic would bring it in line with all the other power weapons

[tame lodge]

Oh

So a nerf

[sweet marten]

and they buff the swing speed

plz i beg

[hollow ibex]

Pls no

[sweet marten]

or, they can add the best thing to it, a parry!

[tame lodge]

Just put your midchion in the bag soldier

[sweet marten]

parry my goat

guys we are going to nerf DS!

[hollow ibex]

I’m fine with leaving psword just buff falch

[sweet marten]

adds parry

yeah really good job right there

[void dragon]

we dont need to make the Dclaw even less appealing

[tame lodge]

They really didn't address much of what made DS too good

💀

[fair shale]

Literally who the fuck thought adding the best active ability on a melee to the DS would be a nerf

[primal zealot]

yea nerf ds give it back the funny poke pls

[sweet marten]

actually upset my DC build is useless since DS just does it better

[fair shale]

Me fuckin too pal

The DC is cool

[void dragon]

word, i will still run DC but out of spite now

[sweet marten]

fatshark!!! make my build even more irrelevant and my soul is yours!!!

[primal zealot]

im srs. if i wanted ppl to know how bad my parry timing is id use dclaw

[meager echo]

I've been enlightened, hellbore so good. Instant delete reapers in havoc feel so good. 🔥 🔥 🔥

[sweet marten]

Psyker DC was pretty cool with Scry and that one peril block

not as good as POWDERBURN

Shredder autopistol my beloved

[meager echo]

where that crusher come from

[narrow frost]

from airlock or the ledge above you

[viscid salmon]

from the walls

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-what-gif-19739023

[void dragon]

FT is the way to Rashad? (3 hits is quite neat)

[tame lodge]

well this is basically how many buffs can I stack on Rashad

didnt have AE up though

I can probably go even further beyond

another day

[little fox]

What do guys run gun wise on sneaky vet? I really don't vibe with the revolvers in this game

[tame lodge]

I was used to Rashad 2 shotting reapers when fully stacked

So when I 1 shot it

I had to hit the "hold on"

[void dragon]

infiltrate i only managed to make run a grenadier build, using frag nades, the new bolter and a mercy killer knife, since sneak damage apply while underhand tossing frags and with a nova from covert ops you can do lots of damage

someone have a good Accatran build? struggling a bit making something for it

[tall torrent]

3~4 hits

[hollow ibex]

double barrel my beloved

[little fox]

I wanted someone to justify me running a sneaky shotgun build tbh

[hollow ibex]

it's good though not meta

[calm shard]

double barrel my beloved

[little fox]

Meta is for nerds tho

Sneaky double barrel shotgun is more Chad than any meta slave could begin to comprehend

[calm shard]

yeah but LUCKILY despite not being meta the double barrel is totally viable in havoc as well

guaranteed crit every 3 melee kills +manstopper/flechette shotgun is good

shocker to nobody

[little fox]

Havoc is such a shit show honestly whatever people feel comfortable on is worth more to me than numbers

[primal zealot]

all this double barrel propaganda is getting to me

[little fox]

Join us

[narrow frost]

It's insane with the vet buffs

I had it in my newest vid

[primal zealot]

might have to make a build soon

flakiac on it ?

[narrow frost]

https://youtu.be/ZG6M01_1SOc?si=3tOcxB-DOkD0kvsf

Yeah

[little fox]

Imagine zooming around at the speed of light all sneaky deaky then you pop a 360 double barrel trick shot on the nearest daemonnerd

[long dove]

Is there a decent recon build or plasma build?

[tall torrent]

both abilities are good

[hollow ibex]

god mk5 helbore is so good now

[long dove]

I take it this is plasma?

[tall torrent]

most ranged weapons can be run with this

[tall torrent]

it's sorta similar role as plasma rn

[long dove]

I guess people still figuring thr builds out?

[tall torrent]

on vet? no

vet's best talents are pretty obvious

[hollow ibex]

meanwhile me using it as an ilas lmao

but yeah it's pretty incredible

you can use it on nearly full auto

or for slower precision fire

[regal belfry]

is infiltrate still the least used skill

[violet yacht]

new to havocs so ill ask

what should i be doing to handle 5 bosses at once

[hollow ibex]

prob lol

[regal belfry]

i like shroudfield though

[void dragon]

not rushing, if you have 5 bosses in your plate is because someone decided to keep running when a boss spawned

a boss spawn is a call to retreat and get ready

[violet yacht]

full complete honesty

we didnt move forward cause we couldnt

so idk what rushing couldve happened

started as a plague ogryn

spawned twins and a weak ogryn

than a weak spawn while the twins were still alive all in one area

[regal belfry]

focuse the weak ones they are generally lower health

[void dragon]

have to move back because in the middle of the fight is possible that some get tossed to a new threshold that trigger boss
that being said, usually weakned ones can appear randomly, they are far easier to kill so those could be good early focus

[warm schooner]

you can get a regular boss with twins now and then, not guaranteed one boss per trigger iirc

I've seen double spawns a lot more frequently

[void dragon]

is important to isolate each twin, melee one will chase one and should be dragged to a clear area to bully alone

best part is that the one with aggro can just run and would no take damage from her

iirc twins count as a single boss for some reason

[warm schooner]

yup

honestly a lot is going to come down to your team and the map area you're fighting in

hopefully you have enough space to maneuver the bosses, otherwise you're going to have to dps race down the monstrosities

[distant mural]

Yeah if you have people constantly rushing switch your havoc team

[warm schooner]

it doesn't sound like they rushed at all

just bad luck

[void dragon]

parkouring and awareness are your biggest allies in some fights

[void dragon]

need to make something clear: from a spawn threshold it can spawn multiple bosses, and sometimes those lines are quite close, so as soon as a boss spawn

[distant mural]

Idk 5 bosses at once sounds like someone triggered multiple bosses.

[void dragon]

STOP

you MUST retreat to avoid having a fight near one of those procress lines or you will draw more bosses

[warm schooner]

weakened bosses can spawn whenever

[distant mural]

True

[violet yacht]

tabbed back in cause game booted me

[distant mural]

But its still 5

[violet yacht]

no we physically COULDNT rush

we got thrown back to a previous section due to getting pushed

[warm schooner]

twins count as one, so he described four bosses

[violet yacht]

it started as a normal ogryn

twins spawned with him

a weakened ogryn after the first one died

and a weak spawn after the weakened ogryn

we were too busy for twins

[distant mural]

Ah

In that case ogryns and spawn first

[void dragon]

getting toss too back could trigger an ambush, witch could spawn weakened enemy bosses

[distant mural]

Then twins

Spawn before ogryn cause plague ogryn not so damgerpus

[warm schooner]

plague and nurgle are pretty easy to kite yeah

one of those situations in havoc though that really shows how strong the entire team is at improvising and playing off each other

[void dragon]

usually people need to leave one player defending and distracting boss while the rest eliminate the real enemy: the horde that support those bosses

[violet yacht]

havoc 16 btw

for further reference

[distant mural]

Imo horde is not as damgerous as twins

[violet yacht]

not that high compared to what i see everyone else saying

[distant mural]

Twins do a lot of damage especially when isolated

[void dragon]

H21 can spawn a fair bunch of weak bosses on hordes

[warm schooner]

twins aren't that bad if isolated, especially if the ranged is smoked out

[distant mural]

I mean if youre alone

[void dragon]

they also can be nuked in a single shield trigger with the right team

[distant mural]

And have to kite them

But u need zealot with bonk

[void dragon]

wish that Thammer zealot were more than a boss eraser, the weapon is cool but quite cumbresome in general fights

[warm schooner]

every time I see a thunder hammer zealot I assume the worst

it's usually true

[distant mural]

Its actually extremely usefull

Bosses get more and more dangerous

[warm schooner]

yeah? could be, most of them are not as good boss killers as other options due to how narrow their effectiveness is

[distant mural]

Having a zealot to bonk really cartied my h40s imo

[void dragon]

yeah but their performance vs regular elite mobs is quite small compared to their peak of boss busting

[distant mural]

Made bossfights quick

[warm schooner]

there are far better and more general boss killing options

[distant mural]

Yes but you can have psyker and ogryn to hold line and vet to snipe

Then zealot can focus on bosses

[tall torrent]

IJ TH shroudfield is prob the highest value "dps melee" zealot can be atm for havoc

[distant mural]

And still be decent in melee

[tall torrent]

also TH build might be a bit diff than before

[distant mural]

Usually bosses fail your runs imo

[tall torrent]

lowkey considering flak + carapace, drop unyielding

[distant mural]

So i think its very usefull

[warm schooner]

wow tell me more about bosses

[narrow frost]

Just for horde?

Flak on bruiser and moabians

[tall torrent]

No
Flak allows u to shroudfield one tap scab captain from full

[narrow frost]

Ahhh

[tall torrent]

With TTK and backstabber

[narrow frost]

Sure for that build

[tall torrent]

Cuz unyielding doesn’t actually change much

It’s still 2 shroudfield hits vs most bosses

Martyr mogged by IJ for utility even tho it gets more damage

That damage doesn’t actually change any shroudfield 1 taps for havoc

[distant mural]

U got a shroudfield build?i wanna try it.

Is it better then the charge?

[tall torrent]

For killing 1 big guy, yes

It’s not rly close

[distant mural]

Thx

So u use thammer with this?

[tall torrent]

This is for TH yea

[distant mural]

And a flamer i suppose?

[frank basin]

Knoife

[distant mural]

Butter knoife

[frank basin]

I will use shroudfield with devil claw