The thing that sucks is it being dependent on your allies killing stuff
#veteran-class
bitter turtle
i would honestly rather take
leave no one behind
if i had a random spare point
but i like that talent lowkey
hybrid plover
If anything, one thing they could do to make it better is make the bonus just available at all times if you're the last one alive.
orchid hemlock
unborn perch
Alright, another question. If you had the option to either take superiority complex or skirmisher, which one?
bitter turtle
skirmisher
primal zealot
new pee sword kinda good 
hybrid plover
Alright, another question. If you had the option to either take superiority comp...
Skirmisher much better
bitter turtle
i dont run fully loaded but you could probably squeeze it in
if you reallyl ike it
you're already pathing to precision strikes so its just finding a spare point
unborn perch
Fully loaded is like one motion imo, it’s just a comfy talent. If I decide to drop it, I could pick up agile engagement.
tall torrent
fully loaded not needed on 99% builds and is a forced tax
jaunty tinsel
so as i understand now, krak is the better pick when you've got hordeclear like recon now, right?
bitter turtle
i wouldnt call recon hordeclear
but
i like krak a lot now in general, +1 reserve and faster arm time along with the crusher buff did a lot to make it actually feel worthwhile
i think it can go in any build reasonably
if you dont have anti armor especially so
jaunty tinsel
pre-update i was rocking recon, psword, and frag
bitter turtle
frags are still good though
jaunty tinsel
but now i really like the sharpshooter capstone
hollow ibex
but now i really like the sharpshooter capstone
Better pick a different ranged weapon if you’re using MMF
jaunty tinsel
Better pick a different ranged weapon if you’re using MMF
why? its been amazing
hollow ibex
why? its been amazing
Because recon has shit synergies with MMF
orchid hemlock
Recon has pretty bad finesse modifiers
Use the Vraks
Trust me
MF turns that thing into a monster
jaunty tinsel
Recon has pretty bad finesse modifiers
where do i see finesse modifiers and such
hollow ibex
where do i see finesse modifiers and such
info card has it
austere mica
You do math
austere mica
or you see if it has a finesse stat
tame lodge
And actually balanced feeling
orchid hemlock
where do i see finesse modifiers and such
Go to the weapon in your inventory there should be an option on the bottom right
unborn perch
where do i see finesse modifiers and such
Inspect the weapon, hover cursor over the finesse stat on the card.
austere mica
Guh
tall torrent
And actually balanced feeling
tame lodge
Doesn't even reach Rashad tier when powered
austere mica
Rashad is pointedly not balanced
orchid hemlock
PS cutting everything like butter 😈
unborn perch
Falchion would be alright if I was committed to those attack patterns. But I’d rather use a power sword.
tame lodge
Yeah which creates a problem
jaunty tinsel
me feeling like an old person not able to find finesse
tall torrent
Rashad is pointedly not balanced
in a world with power creep it's like the least broken good weapon
tame lodge
For Fatshark to release a worse melee
hollow ibex
if falchion had at least chord levels of horde clear
hollow ibex
For Fatshark to release a worse melee
typical vet treatment
austere mica
me feeling like an old person not able to find finesse
Go to attack info and divide the weakspot damage by the normal damage
unborn perch
me feeling like an old person not able to find finesse
That weapon does not have a finesse stat modifier.
tame lodge
It's also funny when you notice that all new melee mogged 90% of their class specific weapon
Then you have falchion
jaunty tinsel
Go to attack info and divide the weakspot damage by the normal damage
thanks
tame lodge
💀
tall torrent
falchion was never gonna be as good as power sword
I just didn't expect it to be below mid
tame lodge
So I wholeheartedly believe that falchion will be buffed
tall torrent
at least it's not shovel's gaslighting tier
jaunty tinsel
wait, so finesse ONLY governs increased weakspot damage?
tall torrent
wait, so finesse ONLY governs increased weakspot damage?
no
austere mica
Forgot inspecting a weapon crashes my game
tall torrent
wait, so finesse ONLY governs increased weakspot damage?
this is how finesse works
austere mica
I'm also annoyed that skirmisher requires you complete a slide
tall torrent
doesn't
tall torrent
it's good
because whenever it's not up (prolonged melee)
u prob have both EW and AE active
austere mica
You can also force it up with dash slides
hollow ibex
I'm also annoyed that skirmisher requires you complete a slide
it's already incredibly forgiving compared to what it was before 
tall torrent
if it was any better (ex: gain stack on stamina spent) it'd be so good it'll almost make vet as good as psyker
and obv we can't have that
hollow ibex
if it was any better (ex: gain stack on stamina spent) it'd be so good it'll alm...
Haha let’s not go that far
Best vet can get are sloppy seconds
mortal aspen
100% uptime here we go
unborn perch
Should be solid, no?
orchid hemlock
Should be solid, no?
Uh
tall torrent
Should be solid, no?
wat weapons
orchid hemlock
Half of the nodes I think I would move
unborn perch
wat weapons
Power sword, bolter
heavy rover
I think I'm cooking with something to deal with rotten armour and encroaching garden in havoc. Mk iv helbore w/ sustained fire, MMF + Long Range Assassin
austere mica
Should be solid, no?
You skipped so much of the good stuff in top/mid tree
tall torrent
Power sword, bolter
ok I'd make some changes
unborn perch
You skipped so much of the good stuff in top/mid tree
Most of it is in other talents in the bottom
austere mica
I know
unborn perch
ok I'd make some changes
Such as?
orchid hemlock
austere mica
Out For Blood
unborn perch
Out For Blood
I opted to swap it (out for blood) for the bottom left node in focus target. Since I don’t really need the regen from trash mobs.
tall torrent
FT is prob vet's weakest keystone on its own rn
unborn perch
FT is prob vet's weakest keystone on its own rn
To each their own, but I think it’s pretty awesome.
austere mica
Its like 20% inconsistent damage with a cool subnode
hearty panther
8/12% global and 10% from the actual node most of the time
tall torrent
it's ok
austere mica
I don't like having to ping every enemy I attack to get value
And weapon spec just enables fun so I run it on everything
Well
"everything"
mortal aspen
15% melee attack speed is very fun indeed
austere mica
Wait they buffed its attack speed
unborn perch
I like weapon specialist, but like, it’s all selfish, I’d rather bring ft for the support.
hollow ibex
I like weapon specialist, but like, it’s all selfish, I’d rather bring ft for th...
that's exactly why WS is good
austere mica
I like weapon specialist, but like, it’s all selfish, I’d rather bring ft for th...
Killing stuff better isn't selfish
If I do more damage I am helping the team by killing things
unborn perch
You killing shit faster helps the whole team
I mean there is merit to that but I guess it’s just my preference.
austere mica
Oh yeah does bistol still run maniac unarmored puncture lethal prox
stark pollen
Personally I just think WS encourages a better playstyle than MMF or FT. Too many veteran's try to never use their melee weapons.
austere mica
That's just them not knowing how this game is played
Even without weapon spec vet melee is pretty good
serene bough
I like FT for havoc
orchid hemlock
Vet was always a Hybrid class
It's just that conventional RPGs have brain rotted people to it thinking it is a "range" class
tall torrent
Oh yeah does bistol still run maniac unarmored puncture lethal prox
Idk
I don’t care much about bad guns
tranquil ledge
I’m glad they reworked the shooter stance keystone (or whatever it’s called)
austere mica
I don’t care much about bad guns
I meant for weapons
tranquil ledge
Now it’s actually good
tall torrent
I meant for weapons
Ur not gonna like my answers lol so I’m not gonna bother
austere mica
I'll live
tall torrent
I haven’t checked revolver breakpoints post patch
And tbh it’s just math cuz damage values didn’t change
stark pollen
I think one of the issues, is how many guns don't lean into the hybrid swapping playstyle. Vigilant Autogun, Infantry Autogun, Infantry Lasgun. Those weapons all struggle cause you usually need more than 1 shot to kill something after swapping. Rev, BPistol, BGun, and the PGun you can just swap to and pop off one shot to kill a lot of priority targets.
tall torrent
It largely depends on how many damage buffs u personally consider to be “baseline”
Because none of the big damage bonuses are permanent
Skirmisher
EW
Agile engagement
If u consider all three to be baseline then the perks are gonna be like unyielding + crit chance lmao
calm shard
at least it's not shovel's gaslighting tier
we love shovel
austere mica
If u consider all three to be baseline then the perks are gonna be like unyieldi...
handcannon point blank ?
tall torrent
we love shovel
What’s we
calm shard
me
tall torrent
handcannon point blank ?
I don’t use handcannon
calm shard
actually I'm kinda indifferent to it
austere mica
I don’t use handcannon
What do you use
calm shard
I am going to try havoc exe with this and a tactical axe
stark pollen
we love shovel
I love shovel design. If dueling sword didn't exist, it'd be one of the better weapons for getting uncanny.
calm shard
I don't think I have the damage for bromentum so it'll be headtaker/decimator time
tall torrent
I am going to try havoc exe with this and a tactical axe
Marksman without CDR is meh
tall torrent
I love shovel design. If dueling sword didn't exist, it'd be one of the better w...
If duelling sword didn’t exist, knife still does
calm shard
I mostly want it so I can krak a chaos spawn and nuke him in the face while he's staggered
I hate that enemy
But I will consider it and adjust if it ends up being unneeded for infantry autogun
stark pollen
If duelling sword didn’t exist, knife still does
Knife's anemic cleave keeps me from loving it.
calm shard
also real quick grenades aren't ranged damage right?
austere mica
If u consider all three to be baseline then the perks are gonna be like unyieldi...
I'm looking and with unyielding crit its like 1 skirmisher stack short of all its important stuff
calm shard
So they don't get their damage fucked by rotten armor?
austere mica
I'm looking and with unyielding crit its like 1 skirmisher stack short of all it...
With nothing up
spice shard
Vet was always a Hybrid class
It's just that conventional RPGs have brain rotted...
if vets base ability was changed from weaker exe stance to weaker shout it'd probably change that for new players
doesnt help that weaker exe stance is also the base ability of one of the two classes that give ranged vibes
calm shard
nice
tall torrent
also real quick grenades ***aren't*** ranged damage right?
And yes krak deals with rotten armor exceptionally well @faint beacon
calm shard
can't believe I'm actually using these fucking grenades
stark pollen
if vets base ability was changed from weaker exe stance to weaker shout it'd pro...
It's funny cause shout gives you more space to use your range weapon, while executioner stance doesn't help with that at all.
calm shard
after talking so much shit about them before the skill tree rework
tall torrent
can't believe I'm actually using these fucking grenades
They’re top tier
faint beacon
Also I'll be dead serious
spice shard
It's funny cause shout gives you more space to use your range weapon, while exec...
yup
faint beacon
do not be surprised
tall torrent
At least on par with frags
spice shard
one of em doesnt pull ur gun out tho
tall torrent
If not better
faint beacon
can literally shut down an entire team
calm shard
They have so much goddamn health
stark pollen
because Plasma gunners alone
I'll be honest the only time I've had a smooth mission into the new Plasma Gunner enemies is if bubble psyker is on the team.
tepid otter
I'll be honest the only time I've had a smooth mission into the new Plasma Gunne...
Real
faint beacon
I'll be honest the only time I've had a smooth mission into the new Plasma Gunne...
Smokes or Bubble for High havocs so far, are literally the only big safety net against them
cause holy shit
they are rutheless
stark pollen
Without Bubble Psyker, it just feels like one bad encounter with 8+ Plasma Gunners and it's all over.
tall torrent
They have so much goddamn health
9750 in havoc
dust off power sword + krak or die
austere mica
I might deadass run reload speed perk on zarona
faint beacon
solely so I can react to them
tall torrent
I might deadass run reload speed perk on zarona
barrel urself
faint beacon
because they are very hard to predict
tall torrent
because they are very hard to predict
they should have a laser like snipers tbh
tall torrent
can't tell where ur getting shot from
faint beacon
can't tell where ur getting shot from
ermmm they do!
after they've blown your toughness away
tall torrent
if 2 are firing from 2 diff directions I can't tell where they're shooting from
austere mica
barrel urself
Crit chance doesn't do anything and if I have either skirmisher, agile, EW, or I crit, I flamer oneshot
stark pollen
They should have a proper wind up for their shot that doesn't blend into everything.
faint beacon
I think they could use more "lights" on their armor
as a clear indicator of
hey im a plasma gunner
not a random enemy unit
tepid otter
Have their guns glow maybe just so you know where they are in maps that have black outs or bad visibility
tall torrent
Crit chance doesn't do anything and if I have either skirmisher, agile, EW, or I...
ykw
run carapace + handcannon and meme
might as well at that point
faint beacon
Have their guns glow maybe just so you know where they are in maps that have bla...
they do right when they're about to shoot you
but its not super massive
stark pollen
I think they could use more "lights" on their armor
Make the Plasma gun on them glow bright ass blue, change to red before shooting.
faint beacon
it only lights their chest and face up
tepid otter
they do right when they're about to shoot you
I think its too late by then imo
austere mica
ykw
run carapace + handcannon and meme
Wait that might actually be useful for plasmas
tall torrent
Make the Plasma gun on them glow bright ass blue, change to red before shooting.
not enough cuz depending on direction u don't even see the light on their plasma
if they face u directly
austere mica
Do plasmas have 1900 hp or is psyk having a moment
hollow ibex
they need to be treated like specialists
hollow ibex
Do plasmas have 1900 hp or is psyk having a moment
nope that's right
austere mica
Epic
hybrid plover
Knife's anemic cleave keeps me from loving it.
Knife cleave is not that bad
Maybe mk3 is
Mk6 is pretty serviceable, especially with vets new tree.
turbid ibex
they need to be treated like specialists
Yes
tall torrent
Do plasmas have 1900 hp or is psyk having a moment
they do indeed have 1900hp in damn/auric
and 2850hp in havoc max (yes almost as much as a pre-patch damn/auric mauler)
turbid ibex
The blog outright refers to them as specialists
calm shard
they do indeed have 1900hp in damn/auric
and 2850hp in havoc max (yes almost as ...
gotDYAMN
hollow ibex
The blog outright refers to them as specialists
does it now
turbid ibex
Yes
hollow ibex
heretics got buffed big time
austere mica
Guess we running handcannon point blank unyielding crit
hollow ibex
now they have a unit type that's specialist-levels threat, without specialist cues
and having elite level hp
and armor
austere mica
And spawn rates
hollow ibex
yup
tall torrent
@faint beacon @calm shard I cracked the code
rashad + exe boltgun
both weapons can 3 tap crusher
without crit
calm shard
feels like it takes fuckin' 10 to kill a rotten crusher with rashad tho
tall torrent
without MF as well
tall torrent
feels like it takes fuckin' 10 to kill a rotten crusher with rashad tho
rotten armor has no melee DR
it's only ranged
faint beacon
Yeah Rotten encourages you engage in melee
unless you're blazing trauma
then you just M2 everything
void dragon
<@820414945543716944> <@199236663174627328> I cracked the code
rashad + exe bolt...
how do you do that?
faint beacon
<@820414945543716944> <@199236663174627328> I cracked the code
rashad + exe bolt...
Im only wondering with new vet right side
does Caxe hit Groaner/Walker BPs for H35+
aka can it actually horde clear
void dragon
i thought that you can only kill crusher with 5 bolter shots
tall torrent
how do you do that?
FT path
take 10% rending
@faint beacon
ykw if power sword has to take WS to be not ass at dodge
I don't mind not getting WS for rashad
tepid otter
Thats Taxe?
hollow ibex
rashad combat axe
hybrid plover
It's crazy how much only 10% rending can do
faint beacon
its probably something to do with the insane damage you get from right side and just
tepid otter
sheesh
tall torrent
its probably something to do with the insane damage you get from right side and ...
I do have like almost every dmg node on vet tree
trying to find a way to squeeze 1 node for reload speed rn
hmm maybe untinker my krak?
if I have 2 weapons that can 3 tap crusher do I really need tinker krak
faint beacon
hmm maybe untinker my krak?
probs
you still get insane value without it in Rotten Armor anyways
tall torrent
I'm not running this for havoc
faint beacon
it'll put Crushers just shy of an insta, and everything else dies
void dragon
https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/14014442078566962627/76DB13875658B5934BB3B7...
so basically that bolter build you showed me but with Rashad instead of Taxe?
tall torrent
nvm I can actually 1 tap crusher without tinkerer
SC + BiD + 4xFT
good enough
not running this for havoc anyway
tall torrent
so basically that bolter build you showed me but with Rashad instead of Taxe?
no diff build
faint beacon
Still fucking hilarious how rashad keeps coming back to Vet like an abusive ex in regards to the best melee choice
void dragon
no diff build
i say that because it can do it with the skirmisher + FT stacks and its Headhunter fully stacked
tall torrent
Still fucking hilarious how rashad keeps coming back to Vet like an abusive ex i...
it's not as much dps as power sword but I feel like it's the best hybrid between dps and def
ancient path
did they kill lethal proximity working with vet grenades?
tall torrent
no
ancient path
oh ok
hybrid plover
did they kill lethal proximity working with vet grenades?
Still works
ancient path
hell yeah
ancient path
Still fucking hilarious how rashad keeps coming back to Vet like an abusive ex i...
what i love my rashad
people hate the rashad!?
hybrid plover
Probably better than ever to be honest since tinkerer is way easier to get
ancient path
head taker brutal momentum feels so great
void dragon
it's not as much dps as power sword but I feel like it's the best hybrid between...
the fact that can duel high stagger enemies with no investment is quite good for self defense, and its not bad vs hordes
tall torrent
@faint beacon OM+TR / LS+VA for boltgun
what would u take
ancient path
how are you guys feeling about the new bolt pistol
hybrid plover
how are you guys feeling about the new bolt pistol
Sounds nice but
tall torrent
how are you guys feeling about the new bolt pistol
abysmal dogshit, even worse than the previous one
hybrid plover
Eh
ancient path
oh damn
tall torrent
the first boltpistol is already meh and hard carried by blessing
hybrid plover
New bolter's neat though.
calm shard
what does it even do
much bigger explosion radius, worse everything else
ancient path
ooh
hybrid plover
Less penetration and first target damage
calm shard
same for new boltgun too
hybrid plover
More collateral basically
calm shard
it does stagger bulwarks in a single shot, but that might be due to stagger being bugged at the moment
so
spark helm
New Bolt pistol fun in melee cretin builds that I use that are just really trying to only focus on that. Nice little added snappy cc tool. Passable kills on specialists and weaker elites but definitely lacking in dps in favor of the cc.
hybrid plover
It works particularly well with new bolter because of pinning fire
But bistol doesn't really have anything like that to synergize with
void dragon
New Bolt pistol fun in melee cretin builds that I use that are just really tryin...
it feels neat for zealot trying to run enemies and ccing them, but on vet doesnt work
hybrid plover
you give up way too much for that CC
Okay I honestly thought this before, but it does kinda mulch mixed hordes actually
calm shard
you give up way too much for that CC
tbh it's a lot better than I thought it'd be for exe builds
hybrid plover
Like it is not bad at all.
calm shard
you don't actually lose too many breakpoints because fucking exe damage
but you get the huge AoE that does just enough damage to kill trash, and guarantee pinning fire stacks
spark helm
it feels neat for zealot trying to run enemies and ccing them, but on vet doesnt...
It does work on vet be cc cause that's where I'm using it with ws setups. I understand why the lack of dmg is important because in aurics bare minimum was becoming a pain in the ass without better melee and lucky grenade twin blasts. Shout and blah blah blah.
Can see the better use through zealot since well yeah. The build concept I'm working with and fucking around with on Veteran works better for zealot.
hybrid plover
They just need to buff the bistol family as a whole at this point
tepid otter
Are there better blessings for the bolter now
I still have Shattering Impact and Puncture on it
tall torrent
new bolter is also not very good
it's justifiable on zealot
and mediocre on veteran
spark helm
Is the new bolter the same kind of mark situation? More cc less damage?
hybrid plover
I still have Shattering Impact and Puncture on it
Shrimpact 
frank basin
Shatter puncture
hybrid plover
I still don't know why that's a popular choice
frank basin
Or punpact
faint beacon
<@820414945543716944> OM+TR / LS+VA for boltgun
what would u take
what mark
calm shard
Is the new bolter the same kind of mark situation? More cc less damage?
exact same yes
tepid otter
It was also suggested to me but that was awhile back tho
calm shard
though it does have much more accurate hipfire
tepid otter
Would Pinning Fire be better
spark helm
Same draw speed?
calm shard
may just be a symptom of the slower fire rate
hybrid plover
Would Pinning Fire be better
Very much so
tepid otter
Pinning Fire and Puncture? Or something else
hybrid plover
Much more versatile than shattering
frank basin
I haven’t play Darktide for long now, been working on modding game
tall torrent
if its MkIII OM+TR
MkIIb LS+VA
why
faint beacon
IIb im mainly using for actual sniping more
III yeah I can but im more so going to be more aggressive with it
tall torrent
Pinning Fire and Puncture? Or something else
both
tepid otter
Okie
frank basin
The 3 could run on arby looks funny
tepid otter
What about Rashaad, wat perks and blessings do y'all get
tall torrent
What about Rashaad, wat perks and blessings do y'all get
unarmored + carapace
brutal momentum
headtaker
frank basin
His favorite flavor is bm and ht
tall torrent
@faint beacon @void dragon
rashad (unarmored + carapace, brutal momentum, headtaker)
boltgun IIb (unyielding + carapace, puncture, pinning fire)
faint beacon
Basically what I would've ran
probably instead of field run serrated seeing im one to usually not run it cause other vets tend too
tepid otter
<@820414945543716944> <@491347588012965930>
rashad (unarmored + carapace, bruta...
yoink
void dragon
<@820414945543716944> <@491347588012965930>
rashad (unarmored + carapace, bruta...
nice, funny how im collecting a few Bolter builds, with both mks (still hope that they give increased ammo to the new mk)
thanks mathe Path
tall torrent
nice, funny how im collecting a few Bolter builds, with both mks (still hope tha...
u can run this with mk3 boltgun as well
gaunt hinge
Is there some unarmored breakpoint
tall torrent
it's not that different
tepid otter
New mark actually kinda fun
tall torrent
Is there some unarmored breakpoint
scab bruiser 815 unarmored
tepid otter
at least imo
tall torrent
probably instead of field run serrated seeing im one to usually not run it cause...
serrated is just so ass that I don't bother
the only like
justifiable use case of serrated outside mercy killer is to stack bleed faster on things u already fragged
and that use case's best weapon is sunder power sword which already wipes like, everything
tall torrent
What's with serrated and wrath propaganda
unholy copium
I saw someone saw uncanny + serrated for shovel is good cuz it does 300 per tick on carapace and I'm here like
anything that has its max dmg hit doing <2000 on crusher (except knife/DS) is not getting a pass lmao
faint beacon
I literally only run it cause im not picking Field improv when a good 50% of vets do
and you only need 1 to have the benefits of field improv
tall torrent
it's not that big of a deal tbh
frank basin
Field improv could hurt martyr zealot
tall torrent
good
another reason IJ mogs martyr
faint beacon
Unfaltering IJ Relic Blade mfers when they no longer have to spam light loops and can actually do heavy loops to delete everything in front of them
frank basin
The only why I use martyr on ironhelm thammy
faint beacon
actual warcrime that this is allowed
tame lodge
I mean
tall torrent
I think evis XV stocks would actually so high rn if plasma gunners didn't exist
unfortunately plasma gunners mog chain weapons and TH
tame lodge
RB mk10's heavy spam is just more efficient
faint beacon
they unfortunately just mog everyone
tame lodge
Since your heat goes up with every swing
tall torrent
cuz evis XV is one of the very few zealot weapons that can 1 tap full crusher without ability
frank basin
Plasma mog all build
faint beacon
they're a bit overtuned
tame lodge
Might as well be efficient
tame lodge
cuz evis XV is one of the very few zealot weapons that can 1 tap full crusher wi...
Casual 15 W
tall torrent
they unfortunately just mog everyone
yea but being stuck in animation makes it even worse
tame lodge
I'm currently going through another 2k hours of Evis15
frank basin
cuz evis XV is one of the very few zealot weapons that can 1 tap full crusher wi...
The 15 is the brain dead light spam?
tall torrent
if zealot had vet's smoke it'd prob make evis more playable
tame lodge
The 15 is the brain dead light spam?
Yup
tall torrent
I love using that
I can tell
tame lodge
Just kill em
frank basin
Truth is I don’t go havoc mode, since my friend isn’t proficient on gameplay but he’s getting slight better
frank basin
Just kill em
Martyr doesn’t bother, just kill them.
frank basin
Truth is I don’t go havoc mode, since my friend isn’t proficient on gameplay but...
I’m always casual damnation
Havoc might too competitive
tame lodge
It never reached this much on Barros
tame lodge
I got my h40
frank basin
Secondly I worrying about frame drop if I go havoc if they spam more enemy number spawn
unborn perch
What is the best modifier combination for the “least difficult” havoc 40?
unborn perch
Yeah but just so I know when I check lobbies
frank basin
Unless fs let us pick free choice modifier as get lesser progress rank higher you go
frank basin
Rotten armor despair
Tell me what rotten armor is
Corruption gas on armored unit death?
unborn perch
Just attempted a 40 with rotten armor and garden.
sharp epoch
Just attempted a 40 with rotten armor and garden.
fun
inland canopy
Corruption gas on armored unit death?
they all have a random roll to also have a small burster explosion
frank basin
they all have a random roll to also have a small burster explosion
The suicide bomber
tame lodge
Corruption gas on armored unit death?
Ranged resistance
Releases gas on death
The gas is blinding
You don't see an overhead approaching
frank basin
Like fog the screen?
tame lodge
Nah it's the normal pox gas
It's just that you can't really see what's inside
So surprise overhead
frank basin
Would named as “Fart armory”
unborn perch
I also think corrupted stims is aids
frank basin
Is that new modifier?
frank basin
Rotten armor and stim corruption
tame lodge
Dreg Stalkers and Scab shooters have 50%
Nothing to be scared about it
Except the 18000 health crusher
Or the 45 shots stalker
unborn perch
frank basin
So what named modifier drop stim from enemy?
inland canopy
The suicide bomber
no on rotten armor a bunch of the dregs will randomly burst
they may have toned it off cuz on release it was just toxic
🥁
frank basin
I’ll call as “Taco Bell’d” modifier
tame lodge
So what named modifier drop stim from enemy?
Probably contaminated stimms yeah
But I don't really see it mentioning dropping stimms on kulis guide
frank basin
Probably contaminated stimms yeah
But I don't really see it mentioning dropping...
Does the stimm has random chances got corrupted?
tame lodge
Nope
tall torrent
Except the 18000 health crusher
19500
inland canopy
Except the 18000 health crusher
are health randomized sometimes
frank basin
Yeah nothing to worry about
tame lodge
are health randomized sometimes
Uh no
inland canopy
Uh no
ah might been just buzzed out of my mind and thought i took 2/3 of it's health the first time with falchion
tame lodge
Crushers have 6500 hp on Auric
And h40 has a 1.5 multiplier
So h40 crusher has 9750
A green stimm adds 100% of that
inland canopy
wollop wollop woloop
tame lodge
So a green stimmed crusher has 19500 hp
narrow frost
2
spice shard
So a green stimmed crusher has 19500 hp
3 of em are almost a plague ogryn christ
unborn perch
So a green stimmed crusher has 19500 hp
Then factor in that there’s 15 of them
spice shard
nah nah
gotta account for there being all 3 stims
so not all of em would have a fuck ton of HP
but by god some will hit like a truck
tall torrent
3 of em are almost a plague ogryn christ
well no cuz most weapons do more dmg to unyielding than to carapace
spice shard
well no cuz most weapons do more dmg to unyielding than to carapace
HP wise
plague ogryn is like 60k last i checked
raven carbon
what blessings are best for helbore mk IV now that Crushers got buffed?
is it Surgical and Weight of Fire?
Sustained Fire replacing one of those maybe?
unsure
spice shard
hp doesn't tell the full story
notice how i wasnt talking about armour when i said this #veteran-class message
tall torrent
yea, again, hp doesn't tell the full story of how durable an enemy is
narrow frost
effective hp would be the term you'd use?
tall torrent
I think the only thing that can tell how durable an enemy is is "hits to kill" lol
spice shard
yea, again, hp doesn't tell the full story of how durable an enemy is
im surprised with how bad you are at seeing points
void dragon
what blessings are good for the accatan combat shotgun?
tall torrent
im surprised with how bad you are at seeing points
no I see ur point
just that hp doesn't say that much in the grand scheme of things when it comes to how durable an enemy is
spice shard
and theres the points gone again
tall torrent
lol
void dragon
Hp only matters in the measurement of how hard the thing trying to kill it hits
you can have 4 hp and be quite durable vs the 1 hp damage enemy
sharp epoch
read the name path 😎
void dragon
he is making honour to it
tall torrent
I just don't think much surface level nowadays
unborn perch
Does close damage only include melee and ranged damage or can it work on grenade damage done in close range also?
turbid ibex
https://tenor.com/view/darkviperau-darkviperentertained-entertained-blue-ball-gi...
Bro is ballin'! 🗣️
tall torrent
Does close damage only include melee and ranged damage or can it work on grenade...
all dmg
scales based on range
tall torrent
max within 12.5m, linear scale towards 0% at 30m
with that said some Ndmg instances are only active with specific conditions
like dum dum & anoint in blood only work with ranged weapon in hand
so they will not benefit melee
tall torrent
What about bleed from puncture? Same deal?
is part of "all dmg"
Ndmg affects all dmg instances currently active
unborn perch
Yeah I get that but I mean ranged weapon in hand part
tall torrent
as long as the thing applying +Ndmg has no condition that prevents it from working on some dmg types
it applies to everything
tall torrent
Yeah I get that but I mean ranged weapon in hand part
puncture is a weird case because it applies weirdly for psyker
it applies bleed to ranged atk instances (which include force greatsword's warp slash, brain rupture, kinetic flayer and assail)
unborn perch
Wow lol
frank basin
Brittleness is literally global Rending
obtuse elm
Is wrath and rampage fine on devils claw sword
frank basin
I miss savage sweep and rampage mk1 devil claw
tame lodge
Is wrath and rampage fine on devils claw sword
No
Wrath is never fine
Plus parry has good CRIT damage
It's Shred + Rampage/Sweep
frank basin
Crit maxxing devil claw
unborn perch
For real though. You couldn’t pay me to use a devils claw
analog yacht
with ds getting the parry there's actually just no reason to use dclaw lol
like idk I guess it gets better stamina values or something?
wish fs would realize that killing chaff isn't a real role for your melee weapon
tall torrent
@austere mica ok I did some maths and I think unyielding + flak for revolver IIa, assuming crit blessing + handcannon
analog yacht
like 80% of the vermintide weapons languish in hell bc they're horde clear and do 0 armor damage
austere mica
<@785997625928581162> ok I did some maths and I think unyielding + flak for revo...
what needs flak
tall torrent
what needs flak
flak sends it over 2550 vs flak which is enough to 1 tap scab gunner in havoc max
and can also 1 tap damn/auric scab rager
analog yacht
woah revolver havoc gaming
tall torrent
this is mainly a damn/auric gun so I don't think abt havoc breakpoint on it too much
analog yacht
we finally have the technology
hybrid plover
i
tall torrent
it's still nice for scab rager tho
hybrid plover
sense that having two stealth characters on one team is uh
tall torrent
dreg gunner 1400 is not that high to reach rn with SC + LS
hybrid plover
still not ideal
austere mica
this is mainly a damn/auric gun so I don't think abt havoc breakpoint on it too ...
Ok then I will continue to run cara
Unless it can oneshot mauler/plasma otherwise
austere mica
epic
tame lodge
like idk I guess it gets better stamina values or something?
Unlikely
tall torrent
with handcannon u do like 2400 on mauler head
which massively overkills plasma gunner
tame lodge
Dclaw block efficiency is 70%
DS block efficiency is 50%
tame lodge
I thought dclaw had like, infinite stamina in parry or something
If you perfect parry it locks at 2 stamina
For overhead reasons
Or any strong attack
zenith carbon
whats the combat shotgun setup
analog yacht
does ds also get that
tame lodge
Probably, needs testing
Although dclaws parry adm seems higher
2k Unyielding from dclaw
1400 Unyielding from DS
analog yacht
man I wanted the new weapon to break veteran out of power sword jail and instead it's power sword but weaker
calm shard
it's not even just power sword but weaker
it's one of the weakest melees vet has
like it's not even mid tier
shit sucks
analog yacht
fucked up how relic blade is like top tier + the moveset is sex and then we get power sword 1.5
calm shard
it's more like
inland canopy
fucked up how relic blade is like top tier + the moveset is sex and then we get ...
very true
said this already
calm shard
if dclaw was given relic blade heat gauge
inland canopy
power sword like swinging banana
calm shard
instead of parry
zenith carbon
whats the combat shotgun setup
currently running this
analog yacht
crazy that they took one of the most popular vermintide weapons and made it a low tier power sword clone
thick rose
whats the deal with this sorry unexpected error popup?
analog yacht
man the relic blade's moveset is just so smooth and ps is so clunky and I was hoping for that glowup when they revealed power falchion
tall torrent
@austere mica ok so
flak + unyielding/elite
with flak+elite u can crit 1 bodyshot mauler with buffs up (otherwise 3582)
with unyielding u can crit 1 headshot bulwark with buffs up (5057 vs 4800)
probably flak + unyielding?
less buffs needed to 1 tap reaper
unborn perch
Falchion is a real disappointment
austere mica
I think its fun
analog yacht
Like while getting a new shiny ranged weapon would've been cool I would've been down for power falchion if it were actually high quality
idk moveset wise I still prefer it to a normal power sword but it's definitely not at relic blade's level
crazy how relic blade got all these unique attacks etc. and falchion comes out and it's just dclaw with nerfed relic blade activation
tame lodge
I think its fun
No! I want my good melee
unborn perch
The Falchion moveset is the reason I can’t fuck with it like I do the power sword.
analog yacht
my contention is that even if the damage values were good the moveset is still mid
unborn perch
Straight up
tame lodge
No! I want my good melee
frank basin
tepid otter
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1374399585073627299/r...
godayum
tame lodge
You know the worst part about Scab plasma
They don't gib your character if they kill you
Imagine how funny that would be
I'm also not setting this up to make bolt pistol captain explode you when you die
tall torrent
crazy how relic blade got all these unique attacks etc. and falchion comes out a...
FatShark when designing power falchion:
You will power sword VI 24/7 and you will like it
analog yacht
I haven't been mentioning fgs bc I don't play psyker but that one's pretty cool too
tame lodge
I heard that you don't like having to activate Psword every 3 swings so fuck you
-Fatshark
2024
analog yacht
society if power falchion meant we could make falchion whc instead of whatever's going on rn
tropic notch
@tall torrent help meh out do you like no respite with tac axe bp? It’s the stam on crit
frank basin
Stam on crit? Are you using dead shot?
frank basin
This is veteran chat, if we want talk about zealot, start posting like zealot
frank basin
Why arbites has no ilassy 
worn egret
For a agrip revolver meant for killing bosses what blessings should I be running? Trickshooter and sustained fire?
frank basin
We will spread zealot essence all cross channel
tame lodge
Why arbites has no ilassy <:Sitgryn:1016269420638765107>
Because Arby's mid
I've been saying this forever
People should listen to me more
Hell I love to hear me talking
More people should love hearing me
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> help meh out do you like no respite with tac axe bp? It’s ...
it's alr
I think that talent's best use is knife
tame lodge
tall torrent
what can i trade for it?
I wouldn’t go out of my way to grab it tbh
tropic notch
guh
void dragon
what blessings are good for the accatan combat shotgun?
also, are the Chswords worth now?
hybrid plover
what blessings are good for the accatan combat shotgun?
also, are the Chswords w...
manstopper + flechette or full bore + no respite, assuming you ads a lot
frank basin
Manstopper and flechette would be take open salvo and reciprocity
hybrid plover
opening salvo is not that good for accatran
frank basin
So that lower crits chance?
hybrid plover
if you're running that, you're running it with ws which will just guarantee crits
no need for a node that doesn't give a very meaningful bonus to crit
frank basin
What duration of ws last
hybrid plover
like ten seconds lol
frank basin
I think it would be you need kill enemy with melee to get benefit vs passive crits
As if someone has compulsive reload
Open salvo range spam
I used to spam special ammo every shot
void dragon
manstopper + flechette or full bore + no respite, assuming you ads a lot
so kinda like DBshotgun but with more ammo and supression at range with fire
frank basin
I forgot is onslaught build stack from individual pellets or is only count 1 hit per shot.
void dragon
what about the chain weapons axe and sword are good nowadays?
frank basin
Somewhere I remember said chainaxe is good
My last use like mk12 is the poke does good single damage
tall torrent
what about the chain weapons axe and sword are good nowadays?
chainsword mid tier
chainaxe got a bit better but still mid tier
supple laurel
Agile engagement looks really good on paper but is it actually good
i mean it seems like a flat 25% damage boost
seems good with sum like a laspistol caxe build
faint beacon
Yeah? Its uptime will always be there the moment you swap, besides you should be using your gun mainly for special takedowns
so Skirmisher and E.Weakness does the heavy lifting with your melee
unreal marsh
what was the better chainsword varient
calm shard
make the crushers fear your poker
frank basin
i havent played in 3 months, is veteran gooder now >:C
Vet tree got reworked
icy gulch
yes
frank basin
Is good now
icy gulch
like
frank basin
Long shot is no longer dogshit
tall torrent
i havent played in 3 months, is veteran gooder now >:C
top 2~5 class
icy gulch
but can i be useful without the plasma gun thing
void dragon
i think i understand now why you all like the rashad so much, the push attack hit has some quite disgusting stagger power, enought o make ragers flinch and stop, something the Psword powered attacks have but quite little ammount of weapons give such net of safety. alternative other good weapons for the class just ignore such dangers because of better speed to just kick it
frank basin
Give you 10% 12.5m within and 25% max 30m bonus dmg
frank basin
but can i be useful without the plasma gun thing
Yeah sure
frank basin
There’s new boltgun variant mark
icy gulch
MMM
frank basin
And bolt pistol
icy gulch
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
frank basin
Except people say they weaker damage and more boomy
icy gulch
M i c r o w a v e S o u n d s
faint beacon
Vet is no where near the absolute best class in game
frank basin
There’s also power falchion
frank basin
Power falchion work like relic blade but slight less dps and more mobility than power sword
icy gulch
best damage worst survivability on psyker, played it, its okay. pretty cool feeling like space harry potter but it gets old after awhile
frank basin
Oh zealot and psyker tree got reworked
faint beacon
Press button to nuke the map, the class
icy gulch
i do like feeling like ichigo with a blaze force greatsword or whatever its called from time to time
wait so basically, everything got reworked
frank basin
Yeah
icy gulch
😐
supple laurel
thats easily Psyker
zealot is best imo. slightly less killing power than pysker, much more survivability
frank basin
Vet and zeal tree no longer shitty layout
tall torrent
but he's not "Top 5 Class" anymore
top 2~5 class
icy gulch
faint beacon
zealot is best imo. slightly less killing power than pysker, much more survivabi...
Hard disagree
icy gulch
if we talkin meta, meta is miserable. i play how i want. fun=op
frank basin
Oh right the martyr purpose zealot rework from 1% every damage taken converted to 25% missing health max for 50% cooldown reduction
faint beacon
when you learn how to stay alive with Psyker you can ramp your damage to fucking ludicrous levels and barely take any damage
supple laurel
Hard disagree
i know more about the game than so your opinion is shitty!
|| this is satire ||
icy gulch
||no its not||
supple laurel
||no its not||
||yes it is im not tanner||
faint beacon
Zealot has good damage and insane survivability but cannot hit Psyker levels of just do unfair amounts of damage
icy gulch
||yes it is im not tanner||
||lmao||
frank basin
||You’re tanner||
icy gulch
wonder if i would get banned for naming myself Psykertard
void dragon
@tall torrent am i right that the weapons that are conisdered good on Vet are the ones with a push attack that can fend off or get away from ragers? even Taxe owns one, feels like a pattern
wide hatch
Odds are, if your curious if you'll get banned, you just might
frank basin
wonder if i would get banned for naming myself Psykertard
Tard word doesn’t sound bannable
faint beacon
Like seriously this is a crime LMAO
icy gulch
tarded
faint beacon
H33 Blaze Trauma
frank basin
Pop tard
icy gulch
lmao
supple laurel
||You’re tanner||
||no tanner is a femboy with shitty opinions im a femboy that thinks they know how to make darktide builds but doesnt. so tanner but with good opinons also furry||
frank basin
Custard
icy gulch
i would say im good, but i build every class as a support " SUPPORT "
frank basin
||no tanner is a femboy with shitty opinions im a femboy that thinks they know h...
||You’re tanner alt account posing as furry uwu||
icy gulch
fiery raft
Hey, I havent played since May. what have I missed?
icy gulch
everything
tall torrent
<@366562874039992331> am i right that the weapons that are conisdered good on Ve...
No
Power sword doesn’t have a push atk that can stagger ragers
But generally, you’re looking for smth that does well in 3 of these 4 categories:
- Mixed horde dps
- Carapace dps
- Monster dps
- Defences (stagger vs important enemies, dodge)
fiery raft
I see this new update has changed veteran and added some new guns
supple laurel
||You’re tanner alt account posing as furry uwu||
man, aw you caught me, might as well just ban me now i guess...
||FREE ME PLEASE I BEG OF YOU FREE ME FROM THIS HELLHOLE OF A GAME||
frank basin
Hey, I havent played since May. what have I missed?
Vet, zealot, psyker tree reworked
icy gulch
veteran is the best class, psyker is the worst, arbites is uncool, ogryn is also the best class, and zealot is the best class
frank basin
New boltgun mark and new melee veteran (power falchion)
icy gulch
good
fiery raft
or atleast not TWELVE dollars
icy gulch
thats like
tall torrent
No
Power sword doesn’t have a push atk that can stagger ragers
But generally, y...
This is not exclusive to veteran
Every class’s melee is judged according to this
void dragon
No
Power sword doesn’t have a push atk that can stagger ragers
But generally, y...
Psword powered attacks have that property so i kinda piled it there, but yeah, their push attack is more single target
supple laurel
veteran is the best class, psyker is the worst, arbites is uncool, ogryn is also...
vet - fun
zealot - fun
pysker - fun
ogryn - fun
arbites - fun
icy gulch
a decently sized meal
supple laurel
icy gulch
vet - fun
zealot - fun
pysker - fun
ogryn - fun
arbites - fun
see this is a very valid and TRUE opinion that is basically a fact
fiery raft
more than half a tank of gas for me
fiery raft
What's changed with veteran?
faint beacon
cause they have only TDR
icy gulch
because if it wasnt true, no one would be playing the game
frank basin
What's changed with veteran?
Better skill tree arranging
icy gulch
Warhammer: Veterantide
frank basin
No more shitty tax node
supple laurel
see this is a very valid and TRUE opinion that is basically a fact
from 1 to 5 one being best of how fun i like is
vet
pysker
zealot
arbites
ogryn
fiery raft
No more shitty tax node
icy gulch
well i havent played since the rework
frank basin
Right veteran crits base is increase 5% more total 10%
faint beacon
Honestly I have to wait and see how the meta settles down for a bit before I can really make a choice on who's the best and worst
but I can easily say Psyker is the best class in the game
frank basin
Veteran stamina delay reduced to 0.75
icy gulch
now when yall say rework, do ya mean its like, we buffed 1 or 2 skills and rearranged them, or is it more like, we completely changed around everything and classes now are more distinct
supple laurel
do yall think agile engagement is a must
faint beacon
do yall think agile engagement is a must
Optional, but highly recomended
frank basin
Veteran stamina delay reduced to 0.75
Vet stamina regen delay was 1 second I remember someone said vet stamina management is awful
supple laurel
see im going to take no one left behind
hybrid plover
well actually i guess if you're leaning real heavy into ranged
then maybe not
but otherwise, yes
faint beacon
Like if you're sacrificing it, it should be another insanely good talent pick or extremely important talent for said build
supple laurel
Like if you're sacrificing it, it should be another insanely good talent pick or...
fully loaded
i like more ammo more ammo means more pew pew more pew pew more fun
faint beacon
If you're pathing into MMF
fiery raft
is vraks mk5 still goated?
tall torrent
do yall think agile engagement is a must
Depends
If hybrid spec - yes
If range spec - no
icy gulch
i like more ammo more ammo means more pew pew more pew pew more fun
speaking of, is that like 1.1k ammo recon lasgun laser beam pew pew build still a thing?
tall torrent
fully loaded <:chadgryn:1161142998214656090>
Fully loaded is a bad tax
frank basin
I will use onslaught and graia brauto and go full gun blazing most time
icy gulch
now i wanna play helldivers
supple laurel
nah run shredder autopistol and onslaught
icy gulch
i ain even played it before
supple laurel
trust me
hybrid plover
accatran shotgun antics :)
supple laurel
fucking beams all enemies but crushers
supple laurel
fucking beams all enemies but crushers
run laspistol caxe but instead of laspistol shredder autopistol
faint beacon
Its the weakest of the Combat Shotties
tall torrent
accatran shotgun is bad...
still is compared to slug shotgun
faint beacon
honestly with vet powercreep though its probably pretty solid now
hybrid plover
Its the weakest of the Combat Shotties
it's also the one that actually synergizes well with manstopper + flechette if you want to use an alternative to double barrel
otherwise, it is the weakest one
faint beacon
Special slugs or actually clicking with it
hybrid plover
Special slugs or actually clicking with it
actually clicking
fiery raft
is vraks mkv still good?
faint beacon
figured
fiery raft
damn
hybrid plover
if anything, the margin between the rankings kinda widened even more
because ws is next to so many good nodes now
supple laurel
WAIT WHAT
fiery raft
damn it is
supple laurel
YOU CAN TAKE ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END BUT ALSO VOICE OF COMMAND NOW?
hybrid plover
It's crazy how strong bottom right vet is
faint beacon
only tightened the stranglehold
faint beacon
YOU CAN TAKE ONLY IN DEATH DOES DUTY END BUT ALSO VOICE OF COMMAND NOW?
What
faint beacon
The revive with stock?
hybrid plover
but i'm pretty sure the tree isn't staying like this for long
fiery raft
It's crazy how strong bottom right vet is
its just the same 4 right?
supple laurel
sorry my autism kicked in
fiery raft
agile engagement, desperado, recip
faint beacon
i mean you can take duty and honor but and only in death does duty end
Thats been there for ages
its just we never did it cause
hybrid plover
agile engagement, desperado, recip
skirmisher
supple laurel
Thats been there for ages
no you could only previously take one or the other
hybrid plover
no you could only previously take one or the other
nah you've always been able to take both
fiery raft
skirmisher
its that good?
faint beacon
cause there really was no reason
tepid otter
I havent messed around with Focus Target all that much but now its my favourite thing with a Bolter
hybrid plover
its that good?
functionally, it's basically a permanent 25% damage boost
tall torrent
no you could only previously take one or the other
no
u have psychosis rn
faint beacon
basically shooting yourself in the foot for taking it
hybrid plover
assuming you're
fiery raft
only in death also increases cooldown by ALOT
supple laurel
no
u have psychosis rn
am i just gaslighting myself right now you couldnt previously take both
hybrid plover
literally playing the game
tall torrent
am i just gaslighting myself right now you couldnt previously take both
no
ur suffering psychosis rn
fiery raft
with voc
faint beacon
am i just gaslighting myself right now you couldnt previously take both
yeah self gaslight
tall torrent
consider deleting ur psyker character
fiery raft
functionally, it's basically a permanent 25% damage boost
i see
tall torrent
might improve
faint beacon
You could take both
hybrid plover
which, is really easy to do in practice
tall torrent
and that it's bad
faint beacon
and literally NO reason to ever do it
tall torrent
and is still bad
hybrid plover
yeah it's a trap node
always has been
that shit has gotten me killed more than anything actually
stable socket
if it didn't have the 50% longer CD i can see it being niche if you don't trust your team
faint beacon
its honestly even worse now cause of Tac Awares nerf (it was needed)
and it increases your CD?
im good
Rather just Shout and Revive them manually
calm shard
if it didn't have the 50% longer CD i can see it being niche if you don't trust ...
yeah but like
6 meter shout distance
is really fucking bad
stable socket
oh it also reduces radius? that's sad
hybrid plover
the revive shout vet only revive shouting when you're in four pits of fire
supple laurel
do yall take serrated blade
fiery raft
is the combat knife still goatede
hybrid plover
do yall take serrated blade
it's a niche but nice node to have
faint beacon
do yall take serrated blade
seeing the middle area is literally nothing but shit
hybrid plover
works really well with mercy killer knife
stable socket
prolly if your weapon has access to uncanny, cuz otherwise i don't think bleed really helps you kill important stuff faster
tall torrent
do yall take serrated blade
only for knife
fiery raft
it's a niche but nice node to have
what abt trench fighter?
tall torrent
it's just not good
hybrid plover
what abt trench fighter?
i recommend always taking it
makes vet melee not feel like shit
fiery raft
yeah
tall torrent
what abt trench fighter?
outside of tac axe / DS u should always have it
fiery raft
i like
fiery raft
should i take grenadier?
faint beacon
what dogshit you prefer
fiery raft
i remember grenadier was good, right?
hybrid plover
i remember grenadier was good, right?
it's better now
supple laurel
should i take grenadier?
very good yeah
tall torrent
field improv is alr
and in cases of duplicate vet (usually not havoc)
someone missing out on 1 point is not a big deal
faint beacon
twinned blast got combined into grenadier
fiery raft
im thinking between grenadier and born leader
tall torrent
should i take grenadier?
for frag yes
for other 2 blitz no
supple laurel
twinned blast got combined into grenadier
twinned blast was shit ngl
never worth taking