veteran-class

[tame lodge]

[orchid hemlock]

yes

[tropic notch]

Or sunder

I hope the new power weapon has it

[void dragon]

new weapon will only have overhead attacks

[rancid egret]

Meltas?

[tame lodge]

Keep dreaming

[void dragon]

We wish he had dreams so good when ObeseFish haunt us

[tropic notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1334771570559680616/Darktide_replay_2024.08.20-02.20_-_Trim.mp4?ex=68c85a25&is=68c708a5&hm=f711766a7ee3cecd245e8ba5564f8880905a90b5675ae455431733ba7557c120& @agile radish @gentle lake

It can snipe

[void dragon]

Sniper shotgun, is there ANY doubt that the DB is the best shotgun?

[tropic notch]

The two silly billies I pinged were doubters

[void dragon]

Heresy, if it's not the Pay2win Executor ones from arby, there is no other king

And even then

[tropic notch]

Tbh I wanna play vet but I don’t wanna subject myself to cbt tonight

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1027335984964190312/1412205492348129330/cat-ts-pmo.gif

Mmm zealot

[gentle lake]

That was a crit

[tropic notch]

Yeah

[gentle lake]

With out it you would've just knocked em down

[tropic notch]

Ws gives you guaranteed crit

[gentle lake]

I wouldn't say its super reliable but if can stun a sniper for a bit

[tropic notch]

Ws gives you guaranteed crit

[gentle lake]

uh whas ws..

[tropic notch]

It’s what you use with dbarrel

Weapon specialist

[gentle lake]

Ah yeah

[tropic notch]

You stack it 2-3 times

And boom

Success

[tame lodge]

The humble agri

[agile radish]

Can kill sniper but that is all

[tropic notch]

Not at all

It’s amazing against everything

[hybrid plover]

double barrel is one of the best weapons for mixed hordes

[tropic notch]

Gunners, ragers, maulers, shotgunners

[hybrid plover]

a good double barrel vet can run numbers on even a purge psyker in h40

it is crazy strong when applied properly to what you're intended to do with it

[tropic notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1334773766697521223/Darktide_replay_2024.09.09-01.56_-_Trim.mp4?ex=68c85c30&is=68c70ab0&hm=dd0b045c20c5425b77a2cc3e8856daa4383e291fe030a818dbede413fed57219&

[willow prairie]

average day in london

[grand perch]

aww fatalist and cutthroat being wholesome again. nothing to bond over like slitting throats

[meager echo]

free win haha

[pallid parcel]

Does anyone know how to get on overwatch achievement. Genuinely feels impossible

[tame lodge]

Just don't take health damage

[pallid parcel]

does being hit with the shield not count as a hit?

[tame lodge]

Shredder grenade
Out for blood
VoC

[tame lodge]

Overwatch is specifically health damage

As long as you're at 100%+ you can take a hit

[pallid parcel]

ok thanks

Trying to grind achievements for the game

[toxic reef]

rolling steel is useful to get overwatch

[midnight wyvern]

Just do it accidentally

Works every time

[pallid parcel]

thanks wish me luck!

[topaz lance]

I hope they finally nerf this OP class into the ground on the 23rd. Smoke nades are OP.

[mortal aspen]

#nerfvet

[pseudo fiber]

We manifested a hotshot nerf who's looking at VoC next

[midnight wyvern]

I've been using Krak nades to clear rooms and honestly I don't know why people don't use them more, they're insane

[midnight wyvern]

Next up, it gives 1 gold toughness and doesn't stagger

[pseudo fiber]

Somehow still s tier

[midnight wyvern]

Gold toughy still gold toughy

[topaz lance]

This is on top of my wishlist for vet weapons. There's a 100% chance that it would be fun in this game.

[midnight wyvern]

Lol

I want a melta gun

Is that too much to ask?

[topaz lance]

They'll probably give people the melta/hellgun they want at some point. Only a matter of time. I don't see any fun gameplay implications of such a weapon though.

Hellguns are covered by recon las basically. Melta will probably be a worse arby shotty (lol)

But to each their own.

[pseudo fiber]

Hey look what's that

[midnight wyvern]

Melta I just see as a closer range AoE plasma

[sly orchid]

This has been there for a long while

[topaz lance]

Reminder that there's a grenade launcher for Kruber in the files for VT1; that weapon was never released, not even in VT2.

[junior grail]

I want one of those revolving grenade launchers, I remember seeing those back in Dawn of War

[junior grail]

I suspect Melta will work like Flamer but armor-piercing, shorter range and less ammo

[junior grail]

I can imagine Hellgun like a laser brauto, it will have some armour piercing but has an overheat mechanic on top of ammo

[meager echo]

Nothing beat yellow drug on vet haha.

[turbid ibex]

And worse mobility probably

Like an actual lmg

[mighty willow]

"THERE IS ONLY WAR" 🗣️ 🔥 🔥 🔥

[maiden orbit]

Oi oi boys
Do you guys know if the curios section of the Hammer of the Emperor guide is still up to date ?
(i.e : reaching 200 HP and 20% sniper resist)

[meager echo]

My teamates literally dying from horde + 2 bosses. Let me do some drug real quick xD.

[sudden cedar]

@maiden orbit By all means, go for it if you like.

[maiden orbit]

[sudden cedar]

But it would do you more good if you stack toughness instead

[maiden orbit]

Noted

[willow prairie]

cutthroat try to have a single bad line challenge

[bleak aurora]

leveling vet is a fucking struggle

[narrow widget]

get to shout asap and it wont be anymore

[willow prairie]

how to level up vet easily:

maxed out weapon

[narrow widget]

eh not really
you can get by easily as long as you have shout and out for blood

cuz then you're generating insane amounts of toughness

[bleak aurora]

yea i know

[bleak aurora]

🥀

planning to build for the plasma gun so i dont have mastery on either that or my melee

[steep flower]

Nah

[jade flower]

with the power sword do you have to power it after every hit or am I missing something?

[tame lodge]

Every swing
Unless you have the Power Cycler blessing

[tame lodge]

Up to date

[jade flower]

Thanks!

[tame lodge]

The logic is that you can survive 2 bursters/snipers shots with 200 HP and 1 sniper res

Since their shot goes from 122.5 Dmg or something to 96 or something

[jade flower]

I feel so bad when I talk to the arms merchant. When you leave he sounds so sad "Goodbye 🥺 "

[tame lodge]

Peddler is the goat

🗣️

[jade flower]

I do have another question, why is shredder grenade more used? Isn't say Krak better?

[narrow widget]

krak is the worst nade by far vro

[jade flower]

Why's that? Just not understanding at the moment

[narrow widget]

low aoe, takes way too long to charge up, and you can only carry 2 of them

a lot of the time when you use them, the enemy is already dead before it explodes

[turbid ibex]

Not as much as psyker imo

[jade flower]

huh. Never really been the case for me. I always feel weaker using the shredders

[narrow widget]

shredders you have access to bleed and really high stagger

[turbid ibex]

Shredders are also right over survivalist

[narrow widget]

• you shouldnt be using them on carapace enemies anyway
  you have other weapons

[turbid ibex]

Meanwhile kraks are right over whats prob one of the most nothingburger auras in the game (+5% damage)

[narrow widget]

like whats the point in spending one of your 2 grenades to kill a crusher when you can just tap him twice with a power sword

[jade flower]

And what about smokes? stopping things from shooting you

[narrow widget]

and only being viable against monsters is too narrow of a use case

[narrow widget]

trash everywhere outside of havoc but really good in there

[mortal aspen]

there are other weapons

kraks cover potential weaknesses

they should have faster fuse timer for sure

[bronze warren]

What’s a good build for vet

[old cobalt]

I just made ~this~ for vet and was actually looking for feedback.
|| https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9fe22cf0-72f4-479e-8c89-dccbe034bfc2/supportive-veteran ||

It's 100% focused on general survival/support

[narrow widget]

bistol + puncture + lethal proximity and then take all the nade talents

[heavy rover]

depends on what you're looking for. Vet has a lot of build flexibility
Here's my build that I run (note that there's a lot of variants and flexibility in the build notes, I swap things around often)
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9f3c6424-3c04-4446-9875-2fcdecb5b950/flexible-helbore-havoc

[narrow widget]

charismatic is dogshit dont use it if you can lmao
your team will also thank you more if you took survivalist instead of fire team

[old cobalt]

Noted.

[narrow widget]

also skip inspiring presence

[old cobalt]

So the Charismatic + Inspiring Presence + Born Leader + Covering Fire synergy isnt as good as it seems?

[narrow widget]

usually id go for bring it down instead of rending strikes or competitive urge as well

if you look around here maybe youll see people taking covering fire but its just way too out of the way for the build skeleton i usually use

born leader is good tho

[mortal aspen]

it'll work as a thematic build in auric

[midnight wyvern]

One with talents selected and weapons equipped

Vet best class in game

[old cobalt]

yeah im swapping between looking at stealth builds and support builds

issue is support builds for vet seem very "Do nothing" and have absolutely zero ways to make plays

[midnight wyvern]

Never go full into either, not gonna do anything, just pick up some support things you want on the way down but make a competent build

[old cobalt]

vs stealth where I can support by reviving teammates and sneaking to objectives so people don't get bodied trying to do them

[midnight wyvern]

If you want it to be somewhat useful

[narrow widget]

yooooooo vet new meta confirmed

[old cobalt]

I mean the stealth build I have set up gives me +95% damage coming out of stealth

[midnight wyvern]

Peak

I'm stealing that TY

[grand perch]

It's funny to me that you hyper focused on the middle tree (which is not ideal) but managed to avoid the 8 stacks of focus target trap many people fall into

[meager echo]

Adopting low profile

[tame lodge]

Breaking off
Redeploying

🗣️

[old cobalt]

The middle tree does the things I want to do, the 8 stacks of focus are just dookie

if you're getting benefits from the 8 stacks you're not fucking pinging enough

[grand perch]

Correct

[midnight wyvern]

I think the only valid use-case for 8 stacks is my build or one aiming to achieve the same thing lol, outside of that I dunno why you'd want it

[old cobalt]

it literally rewards you for not using your talents

Also tbf I -do- go for non-meta picks if it does what I enjoy

[midnight wyvern]

If you really and I mean really want a boss to not exist, vet is one of the best at achieving their removal, more safely than Zealot imo

[old cobalt]

Does my stealth build NEED 20% revive speed on relics?

No.

No it does not.

[midnight wyvern]

But it would be funny

Stack it with a nuncio

Insta revive

[bronze warren]

Medic vet

[old cobalt]

Surprise Attack + CQ Killzone + For The Emperor + Agile Engagement + Focus Target = "Delete this man"

[narrow widget]

BOLTER EXSTANCE 🗣️ 🗣️ 🗣️

[old cobalt]

thats literally what im trying to run yeah

I have generalist support vet where people love the fact that they just exist and stealth vet for "WHO HURT MY BABY" gameplay

[midnight wyvern]

That would delete them even harder but I do bolter shout, red stim gets the mag dump up to ~85k in one clip

Lmao

[old cobalt]

10s of doubled damage to eradicate the hell out of whatever touched my son and then +45% revive speed

[narrow widget]

you could also just toss a shredder and res them without worrying?

[bronze warren]

I’m just trying to piece together a build that fits my play style I’m trying to find a new melee to use because I was hit with the unfortunate news that the chainsword sucks that was my favorite melee

[old cobalt]

Toss a shredder? That's so impersonal.

I want to stab them 37 times in the chest and pick their grey matter out of my teeth in the dropship on xfil

besdies I took smoke for stealth and krak for support

[midnight wyvern]

Odd

Best kind of support is enemies being dead so they can't hurt your teammates

[bronze warren]

The only good heretic is a dead one

[midnight wyvern]

And you being on stealth puts more pressure on your teammates because you break their agro off you lol

[old cobalt]

I don't like shredders personally because nothing pisses me off more than when I charge into 6 crushers as a zealot and then some boy wonder vet tosses a shredder and kills all my health packs

[midnight wyvern]

[old cobalt]

I needed those :c

I'd much rather use kraks to kill big scary threats or smokes to give melee support by letting them go ham in melee without getting lit up by ranged attackers from 5 different directions'

[mortal aspen]

since when do shredders kill crushers xdd

[old cobalt]

they don't.

[midnight wyvern]

Bleed kills crushers guys

[old cobalt]

thats the problem lmao

[distant mural]

Stop

[midnight wyvern]

Nuh uh

[old cobalt]

I'll be playing zealot, charge 6 crushers, go "oh yeah I can tank these guys, plenty of scabs to get health back from so my team can--" and a single shredder later i have no FOOD

And it goes from "I'm tanking" to "SOMEONE HELP ME"

[midnight wyvern]

Are you not contradicting yourself?

What lol

[narrow widget]

dont take damage in the first place

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-gif-27108854

[midnight wyvern]

Do you mean they kill the everything not crushers?

Why are you dying to crushers

[old cobalt]

because im trash?

[old cobalt]

and yes

Like I can kill the crushers but it takes a fair bit of time because I'm not built for it

[narrow widget]

like ideally thats what the shredders should do lmfao
give the team some space to deal with the crushers/bulwarks without being swarmed

[midnight wyvern]

So is it not a good thing they're killing everything that isn't the crusher?

??

[old cobalt]

Am I insane? Is it weird if I perform BETTER when I'm being swarmed?

I PREFER to have 8 shotgunners and 3 gunners trying to kill me when I'm fighting crushers as zealot

[meager echo]

Just stay closer to crushers, they do the slam slowly if you panic dodge they will do the lunge forward overhead.

[steep flower]

Kraks are not credited on one of its important features;
They can stagger bosses = gives precious time to do dmg or create distance for the player who was pestered by it

[old cobalt]

okay I am insane lmao

[narrow widget]

the shout in question

[steep flower]

Its called adrenaline and its a drug

[old cobalt]

Typically as Zealot I'll toss down a fire nade before I engage, charge in and start clearing waves

By the time the dinkies are down, crushers are in a really nice range to clean up with my chain sword

[steep flower]

If only fire nades were as good as they could be

[narrow widget]

if only fire nades werent pathed like shit

[old cobalt]

I use them anyway because Cool > Effective

[steep flower]

Of all weapons; atleast on zealot with charge is nearly acceptable

[steep flower]

Havoc

[old cobalt]

the game gave me a two handed chain sword and by god im gonna fuckin' use it

[steep flower]

Aaa the eviscerator NOT the chainsword

Wording my friend is important

[old cobalt]

The Eviscerator specifically yeah

I LOVE the Evicerator

amazing wave clear and I can still either outright kill or stun big armored targets

[steep flower]

Stun if you take ‚hammer of faith’ talent; without it you can’t outside of crits

[midnight wyvern]

Relic blade 😔

[sudden cedar]

Relic Blade is amazing.

[narrow widget]

relic peak

[old cobalt]

I heard relic blade was meta but I havent used it yet

I just use Evicerator/Mk.II revolver

[narrow widget]

meta is dueling sword

[old cobalt]

so far it solves literally all of my problems

[steep flower]

Its good just watch your positioning cause its dodges are dogshit

[bronze warren]

I like to use the two handed chainsword

[old cobalt]

Dueling Sword feels WRONG on Veteran.

[narrow widget]

hey dont me

[sudden cedar]

And you need space for good usage of the Relic Blade. If you ever get cornered, its rough.

[narrow widget]

its true

[steep flower]

I like your profile pic

[narrow widget]

im not talking about vet bro

[old cobalt]

I am supposed to be a drug-fueled entity of divine wrath not some nepo-baby commisar

[bronze warren]

Cheers

[narrow widget]

zealot

[old cobalt]

err

not veteran

zealot

I use Dueling Sword on vet

it feels wrong on zealot

[meager echo]

I saw a 1500+ lv zealot 2 tap the homeless guy in auric with relic blade + stealth

[sudden cedar]

Ah, the meme build.

Amazing at deleting bosses, trash for everything else.

And you don't have an Aura either because you probably have to run Loner.

[steep flower]

Objectives are good with it too tho

[meager echo]

Bro he farming scoreboard like crazy

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower Don't challenge me.

[meager echo]

Matyr stealth or something

[old cobalt]

I have had the fortune of not having run into a butter knife zealot yet

[sudden cedar]

Why would i farm scoreboard in a team game?

[narrow widget]

knoife zealot is fine wdym

[old cobalt]

If you take Loner, then you should be running a private lobby

[mortal aspen]

green circles are a drug

[sudden cedar]

No drugs, just faith.

[midnight wyvern]

[sudden cedar]

Praise the God-Emperor.

[midnight wyvern]

Someone gotta show me that

[steep flower]

Tbh they are a rare breed now

[heavy rover]

who needs faith when you have enough lasgun fire to relight a dying sun

[old cobalt]

TBH the only build I hate so far are the Conflag Staff PSYKERS

[meager echo]

Nah he not doing it the bad way, he oblierate everything

[old cobalt]

These people make me want to turn to chaos

[sudden cedar]

Conflag Staff?

What the fuck is Conflag Staff??

[steep flower]

We as a community effectively neutered the bucks & sterilized the females of that troublesome species for the common good of the game

[midnight wyvern]

Zealots with staff?

Huh?

[narrow widget]

the only ones left are the good ones fr

[old cobalt]

sorry i am very groggy

[heavy rover]

hi very groggy

[old cobalt]

the inferno staff? Is that what it's called? I don't play Psyker

[mortal aspen]

the best staff

[midnight wyvern]

The flamer

The heavy flamer

[steep flower]

Martial arts zealot when?

[meager echo]

Let me check the scoreboard history

[midnight wyvern]

Honestly gimme

[mortal aspen]

why?

[meager echo]

I dont have power di so cant check his build tho

[midnight wyvern]

With the bonk sound on headshot

[mortal aspen]

Conflag = Voidblast\Trauma

[steep flower]

Would love a shock 2 handed stick (not crusher)

[narrow widget]

id rather have a flame staff psyker than a smyker honestly

[old cobalt]

The build I'm talking about for clarification is fire staff/bubble shield

[narrow widget]

because flame staff psykers actually clear the wave

💀

[old cobalt]

Now dont get me wrong the build is real good

But my problem is its never actually good

[narrow widget]

fym never actually good

[midnight wyvern]

Wot

[old cobalt]

90% of them are just dipshits who googled "Good psyker build" and then expect the build to carry them while they sample the finest brands of paste

[steep flower]

Trauma can save a game; purgatus can’t

Cause CC

[old cobalt]

while being absolute garbage that force everyone else to carry

[mortal aspen]

Conflag is peak

it's nice that it's actually doing damage in DT

[old cobalt]

Like its a REALLY good build don't get me wrong

but the people who play it need to be studied and castrated most of the time

[mortal aspen]

Lingering Conflag BW was my first love in VT2

[steep flower]

Yeah in v2 its… mediocre at best… all bravado & no might

[mortal aspen]

Lingering makes it decent, but other than that it's dookie

[old cobalt]

Smite psyker to me is that build I run because I suck at the game

[steep flower]

You haven’t yet meet a good trauma build/player then

[old cobalt]

and i dont need braincells to cc half the map

[old cobalt]

I have not.

[steep flower]

Now that we establish that; don’t spew that the build is not good cause you haven’t seen a guy doing good with it

[old cobalt]

^^ I'm not. It's a great build lmao

[mortal aspen]

I had a really fun game where me (trauma) and some other guy on zealot basically did the whole map duo, because everyone else kept dying

on auric mael

[steep flower]

I run it cause it carries & its good

[stoic thorn]

Is the dump stat on the infantry autogun mobility or stability

[mortal aspen]

staggering everything while also doing fuckloads of damage, even to crushers

so peak

[steep flower]

A rare duality of zel & psy combo

[narrow widget]

cant go wrong with dumping mobility

[old cobalt]

Actually. Question. What is like. The carry build?

The "I'm going to have to solo this but also revive these idiots" build

[steep flower]

For what?

[old cobalt]

Anything.

[steep flower]

[old cobalt]

that isnt Arbite

I do not have the DLC

I wish I did but I am B R O K E. Arbite looks really fun

dont have the $12 for it tho

[narrow widget]

this is the build™ for vet
last 2 points can be whatever

[old cobalt]

I'll try that. I'm kind of in a weird spot because I want a build that -can- carry but doesnt like absolutely steamroll the entire map -for- the party.

I want to help bad players have fun, not play the game for them

[mortal aspen]

I don't think vet can do that anyway

[old cobalt]

Its why I run my choir build for zealot below Damnation

[mortal aspen]

Arbites in Auric - yeah

[tall torrent]

Ogryn/psyker if u don’t have arb

[narrow widget]

chorus is good everywhere bro

[old cobalt]

OH I KNOW

CHORUS IS GREAT

[steep flower]

Ability;
Book Zel
Shout Vet
Charge & Taunt oggy
Venting shriek psy
Blitz;
Shredders Vet
Stun nades zel
Frag bomb & box oggy
Smite psy

[old cobalt]

I've been doubling down on the concept of carrying because I

I had a Heresy game where I had almost 20 revives and 4 rescues

It... It was... Draining.

[tall torrent]

Avg heresy game

[narrow widget]

average heresy playerbase

[steep flower]

Jesus Christ how dreadful

[old cobalt]

I watched for about 10 seconds as 2 people struggled to kill 4 scabs

Like it might be the worst team I have ever played with in any game ever

[mortal aspen]

yeah, for auric and below I find that the biggest issue for other players seems to be dealing with specialists and ranged

[narrow widget]

these are the people who are losing us the war

[midnight wyvern]

its my favourite thing when an arbites or ogryn dies to 4 pox walkers

[mortal aspen]

so be that specialist\gunner killer

because nobody else will be

[narrow widget]

you have to be trying to die as an arbites lmfaoo

[midnight wyvern]

ogryn could DODGE and it would knock them over

[old cobalt]

Heresy and Below I have found the best carry build is Vet with Bolter, Revive Speed talents/curios, and, astonishingly enough

[steep flower]

In havoc even its painful to witness; i dread to see damnation & below

[old cobalt]

I take the revive shout talent 100% of the time

I refuse to do heresy or below without it

[narrow widget]

ok yeah thats fair you dont need the pure volume of shouts in there

[old cobalt]

I mean not even that, I just found out that bonus hp does not fix stupid

theyre going to die with or without shout

[steep flower]

Don’t get used to it tho; talent itself is not great for what it provides

[old cobalt]

I never take it Damnation+

because the people playing that are competent enough for 75 toughness to matter

Heresy players though? Theyre the reason RPGs have a "Point towards enemy" sticker

[stoic thorn]

Ogryn

[midnight wyvern]

75?

[meager echo]

it's this game

[old cobalt]

is it 75? I don't pay attention

[meager echo]

the zealot delete boss

[steep flower]

50

For shout

[midnight wyvern]

fiddy from shout yeah

[steep flower]

75

For book

[midnight wyvern]

75 for relic

[old cobalt]

AH

yes

i am used to zealot

sorry

[narrow widget]

tree fiddy

[midnight wyvern]

chorus of chorusul chorustitude

[steep flower]

I still want book not a… printing stample

[old cobalt]

Chorus is great but it's also extremely popular

so I run the dash/mobility build on it

[mortal aspen]

Tome&Hammer Zealot when

[midnight wyvern]

I dont see book very often outside of havoc

and probably stealth more often than FotF

[steep flower]

Unironically a high skill weapon in v2

[midnight wyvern]

fun weapon

gib

[old cobalt]

oh yeah, whats a good bonk weapon for zealot?

afaik the Thunderhammer is basically a shitpost

for deleting daemonhosts

[mortal aspen]

tome needs like 10-15% extra base AS and it would be goated

[midnight wyvern]

Thammer is alot better now for general use

[steep flower]

Its not… believe me its not

[old cobalt]

did they buff it?

i havent played in ages

[midnight wyvern]

it was a meme boss delete stick but they refined the moveset and some other things to make it better for normal play

[meager echo]

Thammer is not that impressive man, i saw relic blade stealth delete boss in auric

[steep flower]

Long time ago just biased community refuses to use it/experiment with it

[steep flower]

You haven’t seen what it can do in havoc

[old cobalt]

The one wep I tried for the first time that i love? Shock Maul

[meager echo]

i played with fotf thammer in havoc once

pretty good

[old cobalt]

I love the Shock Maul.

[midnight wyvern]

haven't seen what it can do in competent hands*

[steep flower]

The hammer or shock maul?

[midnight wyvern]

hamma

[old cobalt]

unfortunately my zealot builds are limited because if I can't make chimp noises while playing it, IT AINT ZEALOT

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/hammer-gif-23464742

[old cobalt]

Stealth? CRINGE. Give me my big stick and send me forth unto the tides of chaos

[midnight wyvern]

I haven't seen it used in a heckin while either, just the occasional "me bonk" zealot

maybe 2-3 since arbites drop for me

[meager echo]

it's just bad player man, once you saw random 1000lv zealot play it

[tall torrent]

Still a meme boss delete stick

[mortal aspen]

what do you do with thammer tho? what's the plan other than charge->bonk

[tall torrent]

Still completely ass at mixed horde

[mortal aspen]

it doesn't do damage on swipes

[steep flower]

Fak the links don’t work

[steep flower]

I have SOO many clips what it can do…

[mortal aspen]

I believe that it's a good weapon, but I'd probably never want to use it

[midnight wyvern]

upload the raw clip

[old cobalt]

Thunder Hammer is probably the only weapon I'd ever give up my Evicerator for

the Evicerator's versaility is just

[midnight wyvern]

welic bwade

[old cobalt]

n o.

[midnight wyvern]

I cannot go back to 2HCS after relic blade

[tall torrent]

Eviscerator does pretty similar things to thunder hammer kinda

[old cobalt]

Like im sure relic blade is goated but

hear me out

chainsword

[midnight wyvern]

n

o

[tall torrent]

But it does more things than thunder hammer

[old cobalt]

It has. A chainsaw. On. The sword.

[steep flower]

I wish; phone does not allow to see saved footage from game unless saved as video/screenshot

[midnight wyvern]

ah tru

[old cobalt]

Honestly I do need to work on my Ogryn/Psyker gameplay

I'm good? at zealot (i can do Auric Maelstrom at the least) and PASSABLE on Vet

[midnight wyvern]

typing with 1 finger cuz i have nachos

[tall torrent]

Unfortunately they butchered chain-weapons for this game

[meager echo]

play psyker man, not enough psyker player.

[midnight wyvern]

use FGS

[old cobalt]

Okay my main issue with psyker is psyker feels uhm... TOO consistent?

[midnight wyvern]

fgs funny

[meager echo]

You get the vip treatment if you play psyker

[old cobalt]

Like it feels like it's always going at 100% and doesnt really have a "lull" state or a panic button

[meager echo]

everyone want you in the team

[steep flower]

If only you would experience what i did but thats ok
Did you saw my research about powered attack vs twins shields?

[old cobalt]

why are the twins still in standard rotation

[steep flower]

I see plenty

[tall torrent]

Did u ping me when u posted

[old cobalt]

do the devs just hate casuals

[tall torrent]

Send link

[steep flower]

Yes; like this @tall torrent

[tall torrent]

Don’t think I saw it

[steep flower]

In arby chat

[tall torrent]

Discord doesn’t show tags past certain amount I think

[meager echo]

everytime i queue for havoc, we have to wait for a psyker...

[steep flower]

Will re-send

Hol up

[steep flower]

@tall torrent The test is complete!
The test was concluded on a sword twin WITHOUT RAMPAGING modifier present and she wa smacked at the front so no 20% dmg increase from 'Backstabber' talent!
Without ANY debuffs applied vs 3 thrust stacks, 10% melee dmg nodes Heavy Charged Strike the shield received 3520 dmg
Next was with a crit and here is when it gets interesting;
Without ANY debuffs applied vs 3 thrust stacks, 10% melee dmg nodes & DUELIST ACTIVE (I noticed it in the footage just as i struck her) i reached 6k dmg cap
HOWEVER; If we consider ADM = 1 for the shield and we compare its ADM to UNARMORED which is also ADM = 1 where 312 dmg is a body hit & 500 is a crit and the increase between those numbers is 60% and sword twin receiving 200% extra melee dmg, the dmg will be;
1760 (dmg BEFORE 200% melee weakness) + 1056 (60% crit dmg increase) = 2816 (final crit dmg swing) x 2 (sword twin melee dmg weakness) = 5632
IF we consider also that DUELIST was active at the moment of the strike which is 50% crit dmg increase and theoretically there would be no dmg cap the dmg would look like this;
2816 (final crit dmg swing) + 1408 (duelist crit increase) = 4224 (final crit dmg swing) x 2 (sword twin melee dmg weakness) = 8448
NOTE; THIS WAS WITHOUT HEADTAKER STACKS (25% STR) NOR SUSTAINED ASSAULT (20% MELEE DMG) NOR DISTAIN (YES I USE DISTAIN DUE TO PATHING; IN PRACTICE IT WOULD BE 1 STACK = 5% DMG) BEING ADDED! NUMBERS WILL BE HIGHER!
OFC i might be wrong
But the dmg numbers i saw in-game don't lie (still gonna try to smack her without duelist activating)

[sudden cedar]

[old cobalt]

Is there a psyker build that is a bit more explosive? Not the sheer consistency of conflag/soulblaze clear or just the brain off palpatine fingers?

[sudden cedar]

If you want more explosions on psyker, pick Kinetic Flayer.

[meager echo]

gaze psyker

[narrow widget]

scriers gaze

[sudden cedar]

You will get your explosions.

That was a joke.

[old cobalt]

is that the "god I wish I was playing zealot rn" build I saw?

Where you basically exist as a support and then you hit "Scriers Gaze" and suddenly you're a melee nightmare?

[sudden cedar]

Melee Psyker

[old cobalt]

Melee Psyker is a meme i'm here for

I love shit that isnt supposed to work

[mortal aspen]

Trauma staff

all you do is explode

[old cobalt]

Imma move over to #psyker-class and try to figure out a Scrier's Gaze build that I like

[midnight wyvern]

get to 100% peril and then use a staff attack

then you are the explosion

[narrow widget]

martyrdom psyker lfg

[steep flower]

If only it would do meaningful dmg

[midnight wyvern]

ikr

[steep flower]

Then you could use crystaline will & 3 wounds

[thorn lark]

it's not wounds. It's warp bombs.

[steep flower]

And blow yourself up

[midnight wyvern]

20m stagger 100 stacks of soulblaze

headpop to room wipe

[tall torrent]

Ok so base is 2k
Thrust IV x3 = +60%str
Headtaker IV x5 = +25% str
Sustained assault = +20% dmg
Grey nodes = +10% dmg

Result with all of these stacked up = 4810
With duellist it should hit >6k to reach the limit

It’s alr ig

It’s still unfortunately a meme stick

TH’s design philosophy is like oudated by 2yrs

[steep flower]

I used that knowledge later and its actualy good to use powered att on twin shields to proc a stun

[midnight wyvern]

you can delete: 1 crusher

counterpoint: there is 10 of them

[tall torrent]

Shouldn’t be able to stagger through void shield, and TH doesn’t do stun

U can stagger on breaking void shield but this is not related to TH itself

[steep flower]

As in break the shield faster = stun

[tall torrent]

More practically ur looking at 3-4 hits to break twins’ shield

And significantly more vs captains 💀

[midnight wyvern]

are you still aiming for a "headshot" on the enemy that has a void shield? or with duelist is it the crit damage you're betting on for what you said @tall torrent

[steep flower]

3; i already used it like that its 3 if you crit once without every buff active

[tall torrent]

I think void shield itself is considered as weakspot and procs all weakspot bonuses

[midnight wyvern]

oh neat

[steep flower]

Nah you just smack

[steep flower]

Could get behind for 20% dmg bonus from backstabber tho

[midnight wyvern]

would be cool if the T hammer overloaded the shield with a full charged heavy/special

[tall torrent]

I could be wrong not totally sure

[midnight wyvern]

would give a very nice reason to use it

[old cobalt]

...Oh my god. I completely misunderstood Warp Unbound

[meager echo]

i don't think so, because you can check it with concusive arbiter

[midnight wyvern]

easy to test so ill go do that, recon las with headhunter should stack on the shield ??

[old cobalt]

it keeps you from overloading 10s after Scrier's Gaze ends

[meager echo]

i think it's not count as weakspot

[tall torrent]

Ok no this is wrong

So zero finesse vs void shield outside of crit

Duellist only gets the +50% crit damage effect

Vs void shield

[steep flower]

Now i have to test light powered att with duelist active on shield to see if thats true

With crit ofc

[tall torrent]

Yea no don’t bother it’s not true

[steep flower]

Ahh good

[tall torrent]

That’s honestly not the biggest problem with TH

It’s more like

U can bonk 1 rager
Downside: there’re 12 of them and you stun yourself by doing it, on the highest block cost melee in the game, with only 3 dodges and no good stagger attacks vs rager groups

Very peak design fatshark

Also
As long as the void shield is active, you're hitting the shield and no other hitzone

So no reason to aim for head

[steep flower]

Tbh; with all the cdr and 2x charge its still good; don’t need charge to kill bulwarks in H40 only crushers & maulers effectively

I was getting my charge back up fast

[willow prairie]

@narrow frost pov: no driller

[steep flower]

Got a clip but i’m at work…

[steep flower]

You swipe them with charge to stun them and then CC them till they seperate so you spam light attacks that do nice dmg, especially the 3rd one

[tall torrent]

It’s not stun, it’s just a light stagger, and u have to use an ability on it when a better melee weapon can do it by itself

And the light atks still have like 0.5x ADM vs maniac 💀

[steep flower]

Backstabber talent will work right? Its tied to the model not the shield itself?

[steep flower]

Vs maniacs ye its pure cope; i tend to continously CC them with heavies after heavy charge swipe & stick close to them so the don’t do the insanely fast running combo

[tall torrent]

Yes

[tall torrent]

The heavy sweep that does 240 on weakspot

Such peak weapon design

[steep flower]

Thats great! So basically bonk them grom behind with charged att; will you add that 20% into the math you did recently?

[tall torrent]

Maybe in 2034 TH will be good in darktide 3

[steep flower]

Its not great but can stagger so its acceptable

[tall torrent]

Multiply by 1.2

[steep flower]

The final number?

[tall torrent]

I don’t rly care for stagger breakpoints that only work when enemies don’t have the boosted stagger reduction during attack animations

[tall torrent]

4810 x1.2

5772 💀

3 hit wonder

[steep flower]

Realiticly 2 cause team

[midnight wyvern]

L if they target you too

[steep flower]

If you’re the only one hitting the sword twin its bad

[tall torrent]

Yea realistically just do it on a diff melee that hits faster

[steep flower]

Tbh if you do proper spacing its alright; got a clip of that (unless i deleted the footage)

[midnight wyvern]

Thammer bonk probably evaporates ranged tho yeah? he/the shield takes more damage from melee? or is that only rodin

[steep flower]

300%

[tall torrent]

They have the same 2x melee weakness

But their shields have slightly diff damage multipliers

[steep flower]

sword twin has 200%

[midnight wyvern]

oh neat

[steep flower]

Didn’t you say that plasma twin had 300% melee weakness on shield?

And sword one has 200%?

[tall torrent]

2x melee weakness is to their health bar without void shield

They have different void shield multipliers

[steep flower]

Ye on hp the bonks its a consistant 4 smacks to kill with team

I say thats good enough for fast deletion

[midnight wyvern]

probably same pace as 2 mags from my bolter because of the reload

[steep flower]

Not all crit btw

[steep flower]

Ye boltgun can 2 mag a twin

[tall torrent]

Twins basically always die super fast to concentrated fire, if u need to fully solo kill a twin something probably went wrong somewhere

[heavy rover]

smokes also make twins a whole lot easier

[tall torrent]

Captains not rly worth shooting with most guns

There’re 2 guns where it’s kinda worth shooting the twins with

But neither is for damage

[steep flower]

If you have high att spd you can chain stagger tho

[heavy rover]

yes,

1. Helbore
2. Helbore with armourbane
   

[steep flower]

Which ones?

[midnight wyvern]

captains I agree, twins I don't really

without the shield gate you can do very good damage with a bolter

[tall torrent]

Not helbore actually

The 2 are plasma and kickback

[steep flower]

Ye; boltguns weakness are captains & to some degree burgles sometimes cause wonky hitbox on weakspots

[tall torrent]

Both of them can heavy stagger

On weakspot hit

[midnight wyvern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1411779868797960283/Warhammer_40-000-_Darktide_-_2025-09-01_02-25-06.mp4?ex=68c903b6&is=68c7b236&hm=fbaafac93bb5c255117ce2bd2b669c416d8ef8378e082d7c9e3ceb2626f7b40d&

[tall torrent]

It’s quite good if u have to clutch up for damage window

[steep flower]

TH does not have any outside your own skill as i played it

[midnight wyvern]

was a havoc 30 something iirc

[midnight wyvern]

yeeep

and hunting grounds

'ate me doggo

shredders probably solves that if I had them lmao

[tall torrent]

Plasma & kickback

[steep flower]

Terrain too; abuse dog pathing

[midnight wyvern]

yep thats been my attempted counterplay lol

one of the few things i have to hope someone does something for

[steep flower]

Now you gave me a cursed idea to use PBB kickback

I know what i’ll be doing!!!

[steep flower]

The stagger immunity when dog does the jumping over obstacles animation…

[midnight wyvern]

dogs insta jumping from sprinting/rounding corners

https://tenor.com/view/scorsese-absolute-cinema-meme-gif-9523375912274476782

[sudden cedar]

Dogs jumping sideways

[steep flower]

At random too; there has to be some sort of indicator to see to know when they will do it

I need to gather footage & study it…

[mortal aspen]

I had an idea of doing a Weapon Specialist at home build with guaranteed free shots Kickback

[midnight wyvern]

[mortal aspen]

that's basically the same, right?

xdd

[midnight wyvern]

lll record it whenever it happens too and look

compare

I asked the zealot chat about the Relic blade meme boss killing build and I believe they're talking about space marine 2

very good

can't have shit round here

[tall torrent]

Just run a normal crit build lol

Or martyr

The normal crit build kills auric plague ogryn in 1 activated duration

[steep flower]

Tbh; i use keystoneless zel… and its so far the best version

[midnight wyvern]

which mark?

[steep flower]

For TH FotF

[tall torrent]

Assuming ur willing to use both FotF charges

[tall torrent]

Either will do

There’s not a huge discrepancy between them metric wise

[tall torrent]

However this stat doesn’t matter that much into havoc

Because havoc monsters have much higher hp that u will have to turn the sword off

And relic blade’s dps immediately takes a nosedive

[midnight wyvern]

just people were saying it could kill a DH in 2 hits with stealth, I could just throw talents at the tree till it works but asking is faster

[tall torrent]

Stealth is basically meme build

[midnight wyvern]

yea

but killing DH is a fun past-time

[tall torrent]

DH is lowest hp monster

It kinda doesn’t matter that much

[midnight wyvern]

it does

its funny

therefore I must

[midnight wyvern]

I dunno how many of you know of the arb maul bug

but imagine if you did the same thing with Psword and it kept the charged state

💀

fixed in 1 hour

[turbid ibex]

Honestly quite incredible

[midnight wyvern]

or Thammer

https://tenor.com/view/joker-laugh-officer-balls-jonkler-gif-1879670291507813849

?

I for one, Don't think australia is in south america but I could be wrong

[meager echo]

is it worth to not take iron will to go for another dmg node

[tall torrent]

No

Keep iron will

[tame lodge]

What are you
Some sort of weak willed veteran

[meager echo]

[steep flower]

The bitch patrol

[midnight wyvern]

"buzz buzz buzz buzz"

https://tenor.com/view/radlcies-cat-ears-pop-ears-popping-gif-6350368405702208034

sometimes trappers trip me up, distant heoeoghehe'ing in a closet sounds like whispering lmao

also fuck that first guardhouse on dreyko

[steep flower]

The bitch can spawn right in the gate and you need to take a hard left; one of the more awful placements

[midnight wyvern]

nah that im fine with, i'd just kill it

or bottom story on the left side, between that side and the staircase

also fine, anywhere downstairs is fine

I've had it a few times where it'll spawn upstairs, you can hear it downstairs, you go up and suddenly no DH

no sounds no bro chilling

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

I wonder if I can throw a nade or something up there and alert it before it despawns so I can see where its hanging out

should probably bug report it too

is a useless DH spawn if it despawns before you can even have a chance to run into it lol

[thin stone]

Lol

[midnight wyvern]

reported it, time to get my head kicked in for reporting it wrong

[old cobalt]

is the stealth vet talent that gives a second charge but 30% increased recharge good?

or is it bait

[tall torrent]

It’s ok

But

Infiltrate is essentially point tax electric boogaloo

[old cobalt]

i dont use scoreboard so

I played WoW for 10 years and I never want to see another scoreboard again

[hollow ibex]

some people like it, i don't

[old cobalt]

I'll just try it then

uhhhhhh

[midnight wyvern]

if you're using and like using a weapon that kills specialists and or elites good

[old cobalt]

is Dueling Sword/Combat Knife like my only option as stealth vet

[tall torrent]

It’s not a scoreboard thing

It’s more like

[midnight wyvern]

you'd power up your cooldown pretty fast

but its a constant job

[tall torrent]

U take at least 2 more talent points to play infil compared to VoC

[hollow ibex]

you can use whatever you want

[tall torrent]

That’s point tax

[old cobalt]

Oh yeah thats fine

[midnight wyvern]

also congrats on not being a newbie

[old cobalt]

The entire build I'm going for is stealthing objectives, picking up idiots, and DELETING specials

I do not care about horde clear

[hollow ibex]

[old cobalt]

I want to send a BoN straight back to the Warp

[old cobalt]

?

[midnight wyvern]

orange

[tall torrent]

No

[midnight wyvern]

or whatever this colour is

[mighty willow]

Any melee really. Power Sword and Dueling Sword are the better ones though

[old cobalt]

I just want to absolutely shit on specials/bosses

that is the only kind of damage I care about

I've been really enjoying the Chain Axe

[hollow ibex]

every build needs to be able to horde clear

no such thing as a "i'm just going to do single target damage" build

[old cobalt]

Generally I'll just use weapon with a horde clear light and strikedown heavy for that

Like on Zealot I use the Evicerator

[hollow ibex]

try rashad in that case

[midnight wyvern]

attack speed speeds up the charge animation?

[tall torrent]

Idk maybe

[midnight wyvern]

also what did the giga burst at like 50%

[tall torrent]

Lucky bullet 2 shots of rumbler

[midnight wyvern]

[hollow ibex]

naturally

[tall torrent]

With skullcrusher’s damage buff

[midnight wyvern]

goofy ah rumbla

[old cobalt]

so if I want to do a lot of special damage/boss damage as vet

Power Sword?

[midnight wyvern]

bolter

[tall torrent]

If ur looking for damage the best vet melee is power sword

[hollow ibex]

power sword does everything but you might hate the attack combo

[midnight wyvern]

^^

[rough adder]

I feel like cooldown reduction from tactical awareness is good enough you don't really need the extra charge. There really shouldn't be situation where I need to quickly pop two stealths, and if I do it means I'm playing it wrong, two stealths are not gonna save me in the long run.
Personally I feel like the difference between stealth vet and other vet is that stealth vet should not rely on stealth too much, unlike other vets which is either constantly shouting or constantly in volleyfire. To me the optimal way to play stealth vet is just playing a very agile vet and use stealth for dealing with edge cases of edge cases.

[midnight wyvern]

Psword takes a second to get used to (its not a second) but its really fucking good

[old cobalt]

So in your opinion, if I need the second charge

[hollow ibex]

yeah this is why i don't take stealth

[old cobalt]

i am not killing enough specials

[tall torrent]

Or the game isn’t spawning enough

[midnight wyvern]

BM/PC?

[tall torrent]

This clip was BM

[old cobalt]

got it

[tall torrent]

I use sunder now

[old cobalt]

And for Vet I use stealth for exactly 3 situations

[midnight wyvern]

[meager echo]

sunder is way safer

[midnight wyvern]

ive been using Sunder but still feels like im taking too many hits to kill things BUT

also no melee spec

lol

[hollow ibex]

i tried sunder PS again

[midnight wyvern]

it still feels fantastic

[old cobalt]

1. Jimbo went down and HOLY SHIT that is a LOT of dudes.
2. We are getting jumped and we need this OBJ done ~now~
3. I am about to die and I need to SKEDADDLE

[hollow ibex]

just couldn't get into it

BM PC feels sooo much better

[tall torrent]

BM is basically just a horde clear blessing

Sunder is mixed horde blessing

[hollow ibex]

i feel like BM provides a lot of value when you only get 3 charged swings per charge

more kills per charge

[tall torrent]

BM loses a lot of value when the things ur fighting take >2 hits to kill

[rough adder]

I mean stealth was never really something that you will take because it's strong, stealth is something you take because you don't feel like you need the extra boost from other ults and just want to approach the game in a very different way.

[hollow ibex]

oops sorry i meant to say i don't take double stealth for that reason

stealth is my most played ult

[rough adder]

Ah yeah

[hollow ibex]

VOC just feels too strong most of the time

and i like the right side talents

[midnight wyvern]

if exe stance wasn't exe stance I'd use it more often

stagger from VoC is just too useful for funny headshot spam

[tall torrent]

It’s nice

[midnight wyvern]

it is really funny that you can get it back while its still up

and the buffs are nice

[hollow ibex]

ES isn't bad it also just doesn't feel that good to play

[native ocean]

I've spent way too much time trying to make vet stealth work but it almost always felt underwhelming and miserable

[hollow ibex]

esp when poxxers start coming up your ass

[native ocean]

it just feels so fucking selfish and for little apparent gain

[hollow ibex]

tbf it's up to you how selfishly you want to use it

because you can use it to do objs and rez

if i'm stealthing in the middle of combat it's usually very brief

only for a second or two

[native ocean]

yeah I should clarify that's what I mean

[hollow ibex]

unless i'm planning to charge down the gunner line

[native ocean]

for sticky obj/rez situations it's awesome, esp if you have leave no one behind, the stacked speed boosts feel great

but man, outside those situations I feel like I don't have an F ability at all

I can panic restore my toughness and aggrodump, which can jeopardize the game if the teammates are bad

[rough adder]

Not really, I'm saying second charge does not really give much in the long run and in most cases tactical awareness gives enough cooldown where I will get a stealth when I need it. By "playing it wrong" I mean that (in my opinion) the most optimal way of playing stealth vet is being already really slippery and have good enough positioning so that you don't need to rely on stealth anyway
And I feel like the cases you said where you use stealth does not happen that often for you to need two charges. And if it really happens that often enough two charges won't really help you because now you need to wait even longer for your charges to come back

[native ocean]

giving yourself breathing room with uhanded shredder frags is nice too, but that's only if you path to shredder frags obv

[hollow ibex]

half the time i use it like a shitty voc tbf lol

[native ocean]

yeah pmuch the same

[rough adder]

I use it mostly to charge gunlines, do objectives, pick people up, deal with that one flamer somehow the entire team is too afraid to engage, or either run forward soften some dudes up pop stealth and run back, or pop stealth circle around and form a flank

Or sometimes when i feel like it, just use it for a damage boost

or just when i want to reload in a situation where i won't be able to if im with any other ult

[native ocean]

yeah, closing the distance between yourself and shooters is also often vitally important, especially in qp since #1 thing pubs do wrong is completely ignore ranged enemies

[meager echo]

that would only work in small room tho, in big open area it's hard to do that

smoke is better to peel for bad positioning

[hollow ibex]

infil has 8 seconds, more than long enough to ambush gunners on the other side of the room

the main issue is the long ass cd

[willow prairie]

7 seconds of running to the gunner in the first place

😍

[meager echo]

for example you get the map that you do 3 batteries in the center

you can't get gunners with infiltrate

[hollow ibex]

you lose stealth the moment you attack so that works out

[meager echo]

the desert map, i don't remember the name

[rough adder]

But like how many situations are there do you have to use an ult to deal with gunners

[tall torrent]

Excise vault

[willow prairie]

uh

excise vault my beloved

shittiest map in gaming

[tall torrent]

In havoc pretty often

Still not as good as VoC obv

[rough adder]

I thought everyone is just spamming ranged resistance in havoc

[tall torrent]

Because if u one man rush gunner line in havoc u pretty much just die

[meager echo]

if you have map like chasm station, first bridge without smoke is nightmare

very hard to move forward

[rough adder]

yeah I agree

But at the same time

If it's havoc you will take smoke

[tall torrent]

Not necessarily

[meager echo]

It's a comfort pick.

[tall torrent]

Smoke to bubble is like nuncio to chorus

[willow prairie]

you don't really need smoke if you have psyker

[meager echo]

but then you have to slow push, or coordinate very well to move forward

[willow prairie]

go gadget psykernetic aura

[narrow widget]

frags are just much better situated in the tree imo

most of the time it's frags for me

[willow prairie]

plus not taking shredder kinda hurt vet

[meager echo]

nah

you run ps you dont need shredder

[narrow widget]

survivalist

[meager echo]

only if you run ds then you need it

[narrow widget]

• it lets me take my other comfort talents cuz I'm not taxed as much

[tall torrent]

Shredder still best for power sword

[willow prairie]

still infinitely more functional than zealot tree fr

[meager echo]

If your team is good then you dont get much from smoke

but if you play pub

smoke is kinda needed

people cant deal with twin

[tall torrent]

Shredder’s stagger + mixed horde clear is just generally more utility for a greater range of problems

Smoke needs at least 3 buffs to be good

[meager echo]

man vet tree suck

[narrow widget]

it's aight

[meager echo]

the node is all over the place

[willow prairie]

bro saying vet tree is bad just wait until zealot

[narrow widget]

like bad but redeemed by the bottom half

[tall torrent]

Nah

[narrow widget]

zealot is just

[tall torrent]

Vet tree is pretty bad

[willow prairie]

at least you can have some small functional variety

[rough adder]

Nah everything else is just too overtuned and the enemies are balanced around the overtuned stuff

[willow prairie]

yeah not as bad as zealot

[tall torrent]

Vet tree would not be as bad if vet was a lv40 character

Then it’s like kinda ok

[meager echo]

zealot beacon path is also pain hahaha

[narrow widget]

ok yea it's bad but not zealot bad

[willow prairie]

that goes without saying for literally all classes

i don't think that fair

[rough adder]

There's a reason havoc only exists after they removed the ranged stagger and have everyone be able to use the dueling sword

but vet left tree is pretty bad

[willow prairie]

at least vet have some shit node with some good node on same path

[tall torrent]

It is pretty fair given that there’s not as huge of a difference in power gain going from 30 to 40 points on psyker, arb or ogryn

[willow prairie]

meanwhile each path of zealot you have to take a few shit node for a single good one

[native ocean]

would you consider grenade tinkerer worth w shredder frag or is it skippable

[sly orchid]

Vet has a bloated tree

[tall torrent]

Can skip

[sly orchid]

Thats its only issue

[rough adder]

I to this day do not understand the reasoning behind marksmans focus

[tall torrent]

No

Yam yapping again

[sly orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-head-scratch-hm-hmm-gif-9190273016569542229

[rough adder]

But at the same time i don't like the sentiment that vet and zealot trees are bad

Because what are you comparing it to

[native ocean]

vet tree does feel miserable though

especially compared to arbites, ogryn and psyker

[willow prairie]

i mean

ogryn got reworked recently

[native ocean]

yes and that made the problem with vet tree more evident

[willow prairie]

arby is a new class entirely so they have the experience

[rough adder]

psyker is the dedicated math equation min max class, ogryn is overtuned to high hell, arbitrator is so overpowered it is essentially pay to win

[willow prairie]

psyker is decent

[tall torrent]

Nah psyker is not the dedicated min max class lol

[meager echo]

arbi only op in auric tho, not that good in havoc

[native ocean]

I can come up with a justification to take like 90% of psyker's talents and tax nodes, meanwhile veteran has a lot more headscratchers and tax nodes that make me just go "why does this exist"

[willow prairie]

meanwhile zealot

[native ocean]

Zealot gets a pass from me because fotf is always fun

[tall torrent]

If anything veteran is the class u gotta do math on

Psyker has like zero math involved

Ogryn has a few weapons worth doing math on

[narrow widget]

fym
both classes you're taxed to hell and back for not going on the meta path

like objectively they're bad trees

[meager echo]

I really think zealot need rework more than vet lol

[tall torrent]

They do

[narrow widget]

true

[tall torrent]

They can start by making zealot’s exclusive melee weapons’ stagger better

[meager echo]

I think armor spam harm this game, invalidate so many options

[tall torrent]

Won’t get changed

[midnight wyvern]

I dunno, im pretty fine with crushers and maulers, ragers and stuff

Bulwarks are gay

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914161923334214/1416411502503788615/image.png?ex=68c96281&is=68c81101&hm=a915de9f0fc06afb6fc2a4a0530f4e55db69fd7ddef19760f4df40dcb6a13b0b&

[narrow frost]

Always you got them in a good spot

When they climb shield is on their back

Looks like blockade to me

[steep flower]

Landslide

[fading yarrow]

The humble shock maul:

[rough adder]

The humble crusher:

Wait no i'm in the vet chat

[fading yarrow]

Shock maul also beats crusher

[fading yarrow]

Foolish samurai warrior

Huh

I forgot Dukane had a prosthetic leg

[grand perch]

you dont need to compare it to anything to see theres tons of tax nodes in there, making it a bad tree all on its own

shout out to my friend the mandatory +suppression node on the way to iron will

i hate you with every fiber of my being

the things i could do with just 1 extra point

[native ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/future-ram-ranch-gif-18120355

darktide if all those rows of three tax nodes got condensed into one:

[tall torrent]

Talent tax is only justifiable for op talents

But better yet don’t make those op talents

[narrow widget]

"oh you want to take smokes and have survivalist? -3 points"

[tall torrent]

It’s not as bad as Ogryn’s case

Ogryn takes 4 points to travel horizontal

[grand perch]

agile engagements position usually comes close

[hollow ibex]

Shit like this is why I don’t feel too bad about taking kraks sometimes

[sudden cedar]

@steep flower That's a meatslide.

[fading yarrow]

I remember kraks and twinned blast being amazing before twinned just stopped procing for me one day

I'd like it if Twinned was on a cooldown instead of a percentile chance

[steep flower]

Tbh that would make that talent very good

For some grenades

[fading yarrow]

I'd argue it'd be good for all three

[steep flower]

Smokes

[fading yarrow]

Yes, even smokes, since the grenades go out in different directions

[meager echo]

double pop sound cool tho

xD

[fading yarrow]

Thus greater sightline blockage

[steep flower]

I propose this;
Each (insert timer here) your grenade of choice will be amplified to have the following;
Shredders receive (insert buff)
Kraks receive (insert buff)
Smokes receive (insert buff)

[meager echo]

smokes nulify tox bomb & fire

[steep flower]

Not that much unless you jerk your camera like you jerk yourself to sleep at night

[steep flower]

That should be by default

[fading yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

[hollow ibex]

That would be fucking peak

Might need to be a subnode tho

[native ocean]

Good subnode idea yeah

[midnight wyvern]

how it nullify tox bomb?

does it eat the aoe?

[steep flower]

It was an idea we cope to have in the future

[midnight wyvern]

ohh

aw yep

pretty sure it does eat fire though no?

or am I thinking of another game lol

[junior grail]

Could be like Bardins Ult as Ranger Vet in VT2 where his smoke bombs have medicinal weed extract worked into them

[hybrid plover]

Twinned blast on smokes would still be useful me thinks.

[midnight wyvern]

bigger AoE for free

even if its not that much bigger

bigger is bigger

[hybrid plover]

Not as useful as the other nades but it's basically extending smoke range

[midnight wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-20591327

[hybrid plover]

me vet main

vet tree bad

zealot tree also bad

vet tree is from the civil war period

zealot tree is from the triassic period

[midnight wyvern]

I have one vet build I like

enough said

can't afford other things

lol

[hybrid plover]

I've been able to find an appreciation with smokes enough to try other things

Since agile engagement is also very nice

But trying to use them and have survivalist at the same time?

[midnight wyvern]

S shaped tree

[hybrid plover]

It just sucks.

The tree is just ridiculously bloated

[midnight wyvern]

im keen for when vet tree has something like Arbites tree linking nodes lol

where you can chose any of the 3

and then go to whatever aura

I hope they touch on non survivalist auras too

[rough adder]

I don't like the sentiment that weak tree = bad tree. And every time I hear it it's always a coin toss whether the meaning is "I think the point tax hurt the build variety" or "vet don't have enough strong node they should make it do 1800dps on crushers like arbitrator" Power and difficulty are chicken and eggs and with the current state of the encounters in this game either have way too bloated numbers or way too bloated enemy counts and it devalues a lot of mechanics or just straight up makes things broken

[turbid ibex]

Fire team specially

+5% damage on an aura is a nothingburger

[midnight wyvern]

I had people asking me why I was running survivalist over the 5% damage aura lmao

like

[rough adder]

I'm not saying vet and zealots are not weak or bloated I'm saying they should model the AI directors to let encounters to allow those otherwise useless nodes useful again instead of other way around

[turbid ibex]

Ah yes

Lets fundamentally change how the game spawns work so we can make uhhhhh

[midnight wyvern]

change the AI director for outdated nodes rather than updating the nodes

why didn't we think of that

[hybrid plover]

Tbh it's been an issue even before arbitrator and the ogryn rework came around

[turbid ibex]

-20% stamina cost for sprinting useful

Somehow

[rough adder]

Say what you want, the current ways stuff spawns are not ok