veteran-class

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-rolecist-purple-role-discord-role-gif-1760679350184130649

Idk

[willow tendon]

does bolt pistol have reverse falloff?

[hoary marsh]

Looking at the number, survivalist really doesnt work well with certain weapons.

[topaz lance]

Cannot wait for the shotty buffs

[hoary marsh]

Yeah its a sad day when the revolver is more effective at close range than the Shotgun.

[severe zinc]

I’ve always found it strange that the weapons that are the dinkiest little thing in the game always end up being the highest damage, best weapons in all of existence

[neat stratus]

No meltagun yet

But I bet with the current trend it might be one of the weakest options

[open ravine]

Melta is probably gonna be a DLC weapons in the first weapon pack for darktide and therefore probably be cracked

[neat stratus]

Probably so

[hollow ibex]

Wouldn't it have infinite cleave?

Prob would be busted

[open ravine]

Unless they are gonna randomly spoil vet in August after their month break because they have been neglecting it

[open ravine]

Depends might have infinite pen but not cleave but we will have to see how they choose to adapt it

Like it could be cone or beam or both with standard shots being beam and alt being cone

The melta is one of the less concrete how it works like plasma

Plasma could easily get a explosive variant or a burst variant

[neat stratus]

Think Im gonna mix a little of all the arbite trees to make a supertank crowd controller with a dog serving as the quicker response to elites and specials

[crisp oak]

Is the full tree even out yet?

[neat stratus]

We know what theyre going for

Subjugator path is a tank that uses melee, Exterminator is mostly about shotguns and has you deal more damage and move faster, and Investigator is the dog tree

[crisp oak]

Yeah

But we do not know how interchangeable it is

[neat stratus]

Yeah, but theres a good chance you can mix the philosophy to some extent

[crisp oak]

For all we know it could be the old ogryn tree in design

[arctic rampart]

optimistic, did they actually announce DLC? not enough players to fund a DLC?

[neat stratus]

I think Investigator with a little tankiness and movement speed is going to be a fun playstyle

[arctic rampart]

although there are actually ~10k players on steam

[neat stratus]

Arbites is a DLC

[hollow ibex]

In b4 they took inspiration from the vet tree layout

[crisp oak]

This is more what I expect

[open ravine]

They still do weapon pack DLC for vermintide

There is even one coming next year

[neat stratus]

Im optimistic that you won't become an unstoppable, fast killing machine with a psychotic dog, but that you can at least be a slightly faster, less tough ogryn with a dog

[arctic rampart]

oh ok, so like $5-10 dlc

[crisp oak]

You gonna run the charge or the walk?

[open ravine]

That's typical for fatshark

[crisp oak]

On the other hand, arvites is 12 bucks

[open ravine]

I have the feeling walk will be busted as fatshark pulled it from being the base ability

[crisp oak]

Issue is I think thats gonne be in the shotgun tree

[open ravine]

But we will see in 8 days

[neat stratus]

Im thinking Exterminator path with the walk, and canine morale/no escape is gonna be fun

[crisp oak]

So could have messed up pathing

[neat stratus]

Walking menacingly quickly towards enemies while literally dogging on them I think is gonna be fun

[open ravine]

Shotguns are apparently getting a buff so could be busted with shotguns but anyway based off the archetype pictures its going to be the shield side of the tree

[neat stratus]

I wanna invest enough into the dog path that they're integral to the playstyle, while taking more of a shotgunner role ig

The charge sounds like a lot of fun too

Breaking though trash so you can pop the dog boosts

[true jackal]

"SER KRUBER"

[neat stratus]

IM A BLOODY BATTERING RAM THATS WHAT I AM

[hoary marsh]

Doing a Gunslinger Vet build, Using Rashad Caxe as primary and allot of the time, then quick swapping to hip fire a few shots to eliminate at range with QuickDraw Revolver. Any suggestions for tree?

[neat stratus]

With all the ways Arbiters are going to get movement speed boosts, Im curious how fast theyll get

You take a talent that increases your tankiness as well you basically got fastgryn

But the blitzes

[hoary marsh]

Tempted to drop Rending Strikes and Bring it down for Agile Engagement.

[hoary marsh]

YEah I am switching to Arbites the day it comes out. lol

[vague wigeon]

Why people consider puncture as a good blessing on bolt pistol?

[neat stratus]

Whos gonna be running Voltaic Shock Mine?

[hoary marsh]

Seems really helpful, interested to try it for sure.

[vague wigeon]

I mean, unlike infernus damage is too smalle to finish anything

[neat stratus]

I wonder what they mean exactly by "a lot longer"

2 minute stunfield

[hoary marsh]

BEcause its applies bleed to anything that gets hit by the explosion as well.

[neat stratus]

Remote Detonation also sounds cool, utility might depend on how well you can manage the dog and if the cooldown is very long though

[true jackal]

^and it does finish a lot more things then you'd think

[charred pulsar]

Hey fellas, need a krieg larper build with the hellbore and shovel

[vague wigeon]

Well, yeah, i have noticed it, but 90 damage per second is kinda nothing

Am i missing something?

[neat stratus]

I don't know about nuncio aquila honestly

[true jackal]

have they shown how it's targeted? or is it just drop at your feet

[neat stratus]

If its a massive debuff itll possibly be meta, but if its very slight for both parties itll be mid

[neat stratus]

Where you aim

I think its gonna be a thrown speaker

[uncut pebble]

You're free to be wrong.

[hoary marsh]

Your not really missing anything, its a good secondary blessing, but that bleed does build on targets as it stacks. Your not gonna notice it on something you are actively shooting as they die quick, but other things that move away can do from the bleed.

[hoary marsh]

WHere you are aiming.

[neat stratus]

Break the line just sounds like a better ogryn charge

[hoary marsh]

With a shorter cooldown

[neat stratus]

You trade often unnecessary range for giving it the shortest cooldown in the game

[true jackal]

combined ogryn charge and zealot rush

[vague wigeon]

Unfortunately i bear the burden of being right

[true jackal]

hopefully it's mainly about the mobility and a little cc on the end

I FUCKING LOVE DIVING THE ENEMY BACKLINE

[neat stratus]

You know with all the speed boosts and charges arbitrator gets, I bet its gonna be the speedrunner class

[true jackal]

fastest or slowest sounds like

depending on how good the speed stuff is with the tank mode

[neat stratus]

Yeah, but at least being the slowest means you're gonna be literally unstoppable

[neat stratus]

Tank mode gives you increased walkspeed with no sprint, Im sure the other speedboosts will easily make you just as fast as running anyway

[true jackal]

just powerwalk at people

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-menacing-gif-20038691

Subjugator tree:

[vague wigeon]

Although inyou shoot without ADS some enemies do can survive with some hp lefs...

[hollow ibex]

Hmm no slide too I assume

[neat stratus]

Wait dont arbites get a shield and shotgun pistol or somethin

[true jackal]

yuh

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-the-dark-ages-doom-dark-ages-doom-dark-ages-doomguy-gif-366884463840825135

[true jackal]

I'd assume they also get the double barrel

[neat stratus]

Doom build is gonna go crazy

[void dragon]

Why you think I have been calling their new shotgun the Super Shotgun?

[neat stratus]

Maximum uptime on the stance, shotgun and shield, and all the mobility possible

[austere mica]

Live Carapace Reaction

[true jackal]

surely the shockmaul and shield can deal with cara

[neat stratus]

Can we get glory kills for the arbite

Wanna hit a sniper with one of these

https://tenor.com/view/doom-doom-eternal-glory-kill-doom-glory-kill-doom-eternal-zombie-gif-18694440

[void dragon]

On special kill of the dominator maul you do a glory kill that suppress enemies

[neat stratus]

Chat is this real

[void dragon]

No

[neat stratus]

Damn it

[void dragon]

ObeseFish would not allow such much fun

[true jackal]

though most melee enemies that matter can't be supressed last I checked

[neat stratus]

Why would suppressing them matter anyways

[true jackal]

be like a stun if it worked nicely

but the mauler does not care for the supression of a little dog

[void dragon]

Melee enemies don't, is more vs ranged ones

[neat stratus]

Mauler v Arbiter:

https://tenor.com/view/eso-knight-pommel-strike-punch-ko-gif-5980793312588365212

[true jackal]

it's still a shame that knight in that trailer is a bitch in the game

[inland orchid]

the cyberdog can pin them down tho

[true jackal]

that is not a little dog

nor is it suppression

[void dragon]

But then dogo strikes back

[neat stratus]

Cyber Mastiff stunning a sniper:

[inland orchid]

simply sizedown ur cyberdog as far as possible

[neat stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-pet-wake-up-bed-morning-gif-5196960

[inland orchid]

make that cybermastiff a cyberpoodle

[neat stratus]

Can we get a Cyber Chihuahua Pack

Send like 15 ankle biters into a horde

[true jackal]

counter the pack hunters modifier with your own

[hasty grove]

Do you think Khorne smiles favorably upon our Veterans?

[true jackal]

I mean one of the vet's voicelines sounds like they are talking about a dream from khorne (or some other demonic entite but they mention a mountain of skulls)

[hasty grove]

Considering they’re veterans of the Militarum they surely all have astronomical kill counts and Khorne cares not where the blood flows from

[inland orchid]

Khorne smiles upon many of the imperium, theres always slaughter to fuel him after all

[neat stratus]

I was hoping wed get a cyber dog skin like this

https://tenor.com/view/dog-robot-dog-gif-10350529

[hasty grove]

And Khorne embodies wanton slaughter as much as the nobility of a solider

[frank basin]

khrone having a buffet

[hasty grove]

Khorne loves his Cutthoat Veterans I bet since they’re all frothing lunatics fixated on vengeance

[void dragon]

I want a cyber cocker spanish

[hasty grove]

I wanna upload a 3d model of my cat to be my cyber companion

[inland orchid]

"FOR EVERY BULLET, A PRAYER FOR THE DEAD!" -least angry cutthroat vet voiceline

[hasty grove]

GET IN THERE! MAKE EM SCREAM 👹 👹 👹

My favorite cutthroat line is a VoC line

“Give ‘em the old Kasrkin double tap!”

[hollow ibex]

CLOSE, KILL, AND DO IT AGAIN

[hasty grove]

GET IN THERE! MAKE EM SCREAM

[uncut pebble]

Pretty sure Khorne doesn't benefit from righteous vengeance in the Emperor's name.

[hasty grove]

Khorne benefits from killing

Khorne cares not where the blood flows from

So long as it flows

[uncut pebble]

The point is, it's less effective at empowering him as you think.

[hasty grove]

I disagree

At a baseline any killing regardless of motives will empower Khorne

The World Eaters killing directly in his name is probably more empowering tho

[plain osprey]

Oof. The achlys mrk 8 combat axe is ass. I love the rashad. The achlys supposedly has the same damage. But it feels weaker in the damage department and the last time ive seen so awkward (attack) angles, ive failed art class.

Not a single line of these attacks feels right. The entire light and heavy attack pattern is garbage except for maybe the pushattack and the special attack. Also, the attack speed seemed slow and sluggish, almost to the point of slow motion, like i were to cut molasses

Such a stupid axe.

FS, please buff.

[ruby totem]

Haven't played in a while, did they nerf the shit out of the Catachan Knifes?

[narrow frost]

nothing changed on them

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

But they buffed groaners and walkers mass

A light attack 3 cleave only hits two walkers now

And people will yet tell you to run lacerate

Smh

[hollow ibex]

lacerate is great

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/not-you-seamus-gif-24731889

[ruby totem]

Well I appreciate the info, thanks!

[neon current]

what does 3clv have to do with bleeds tho?

oh you can only bleed 2 chaff at a time nvm

[vapid thunder]

the mauler ignores the small dog when it barks

what weapon to pair with recon lasgun?

[nimble wadi]

If you had to bring an autogun to havoc, which one would you bring

[tidal quail]

is this the real sargeant morrow?

[void dragon]

question: when is good to take infernus on the laspistol and when is better to follow the guide in pins and use either ghost or desperado?

[faint beacon]

DumDum + Infernus

boss shredding

[void dragon]

dum dum is always taken

[faint beacon]

Ghost is more so for anti-shooter fighting and Desperado is literally there for getting value from Shocktrooper

[vapid thunder]

ive been running iauto in havoc and its working well

havoc 11-20 tho

so maybe not relevant

[faint beacon]

Its playable in H40

@narrow frost Used it during our H40 Smoke Vet run

im just unsure what he ran

[narrow frost]

vraks mk5

[void dragon]

Vraks currently is THE best Autogun in the game

no other gun works as well

[faint beacon]

Agri and Graia have their gimmicks its just Vraks is super boosted in stats unfortunatetly

[nimble wadi]

I’ve been using vraks 5 I just wanted to see if people used anything else

[nimble wadi]

What perks do you put on your vraks

[narrow frost]

flak unyield for that run

depending, maniac works too

for some specials and dreg ragers

unyield to shoot reaper and bulwarks

and BoN

[faint beacon]

DumDum + Something I assume

mainly cause if it has DumDum you use it no matter what

[nimble wadi]

O use flak unyielding

I

[faint beacon]

You'll kinda notice

Havoc tends to have you run that combo

Flak/Uny

[nimble wadi]

No ik I use dumdum and deathspitter

[faint beacon]

Oh no not blessing, perk combo

I've caught onto it

[nimble wadi]

I’ve been having a lot of fun with a keystone less buffed shredder nade build lol

It’s kind of funny

[hollow ibex]

but with FT your nades would be doing even more damage

[nimble wadi]

Meh

[vapid thunder]

is the scab radio operator ever going to return or is that one penance forever unobtainable

[formal ice]

When you stop having the urge to complete every penance ever it will come back

[crisp wraith]

Which penance is that?

[vapid thunder]

kill every type of scab enemy

[crisp wraith]

Well now I'm just confused, because I haven't been able to kill one of them either, but I've got the achievement

Unless I got the achievement before they were added/removed?

[vapid thunder]

how do i put the No and Yes reactions in chat

[tame lodge]

Mods

[void dragon]

there are MODS for that?!!

is there one for "need help here"?

[tame lodge]

Yeah
Same mod

"I need help"

Think it's called For The Emperor!

[void dragon]

many thanks mate

[nimble wadi]

Damn I almost broke 1m for the first time D:

I was SO CLOSE

[hollow ibex]

should've just stuck around a bit longer to farm damage

[nimble wadi]

It was such a good team I didn't want to do that to them

[zinc ridge]

Basic bois

[nimble wadi]

Why is that frog sitting in a spoon

[sonic kayak]

Well done, Stanley

[nimble wadi]

[sonic kayak]

Nay, thou

[nimble wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/boosh-gif-22002688

[dusty nacelle]

What does the "perfect" power sword look like?

And is 3 or 6 better?

[tall torrent]

VI

[willow tendon]

Could someone show a bolt pistol build

[tropic notch]

Sure one second

[tropic notch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d51275b-f9c4-4494-9b88-bfafbbbf4981/terrible-vet-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

@willow tendon the bolt pistol, flak + maniac, lethal proximity + puncture

[unreal nova]

'Nadier build.

[tropic notch]

Good vet melees are power sword, knife, combat axe, tac axe @willow tendon

And the mk1 shovel

[willow tendon]

rapier doesn't work well with it?

[unreal nova]

More like nobody talks about it.

[tropic notch]

I mean dueling sword can but it’s a crutch in my opinion

[unreal nova]

It's just on a special lvl of broken.

And if you aren't a psyker... yeah.

[uncut pebble]

Don't use duelling sword. It makes you worse at the game.

[tropic notch]

If you’re using the dueling sword go with flak + unyielding, uncanny + riposte with a moblity dump stat @willow tendon

[uncut pebble]

Duelling sword exists in one respectable capacity only, and thats if youre not the Emperor himself and you want to play havocs.

[unreal nova]

Even then, ppl will shame you in some ways.

[dusty nacelle]

wait is the DS bad?

[uncut pebble]

It's not bad, it's way too good.

It's a giant crutch.

The difficulty aspect of the game goes out the window when you move at mach jesus and can oneshot anything within arms reach.

Gives a lot of folks the impression that they are good, when in reality, their weapon is carrying them.

[willow tendon]

I followed "important talents" in the guide and ended up with a different setup with focus target with redirect fire + grenadier stuff

[void dragon]

"Match Jesus" is an interesting metric I never heard before

[unreal nova]

DS goes fast, second only to knoife.

[void dragon]

Indeed, tried it once and it was an absurd speed for how effective of a single target weapon it is (paired with DBshotgun it's disgusting)

[void dragon]

To an extent I wonder how much uncanny strike is also at fault

[unreal nova]

No, you run around fast.

The heavy atk move tech also works on it to a lesser degree.

[void dragon]

Honestly, why DS has ALSO that mobility bonus? I kinda get it on knife, but DS didn't had enough advantages?

[unreal nova]

DS has everything but extra crit rate and horde clear tbh.

[void dragon]

Reason why taking DBshotgun with it feels even more cheat, gun clear hordes and sword cleans absolutely everything else, while zooming around at a speed no enemy can match

Bonus points that Uncanny strike makes your shotgun shots hurt more even on caparace enemies

[unreal nova]

Just poke them twice.

[void dragon]

Poke enemies, get uncanny, shotgun for AOE bleed and WS bonuses, repeat until everything is ded

[narrow frost]

that is what combine does

[tropic notch]

If you want to that’s fine but the attack speed it’s definitely needed form weapons specialist for horde clear

[void dragon]

Hey @narrow frost how often do you do havocs? I'm gonna be busy with Irl stuff for a while but will need some help trying to rise from the hole in Havoc 23 I'm currently on

[narrow frost]

everyday

depening on mood If I play more then 1 or 2 runs

[unreal nova]

So little if you have to carry someone with crazy ping? Heh.

[narrow frost]

I basically rage quit today, I hate when they do something to the servers and makes it impossible to play

[void dragon]

Yeah, having a full havoc run with 2001 errors is NOT fun

[narrow frost]

the desync today is unbearable

no fire visual or audio doing burn damage, no audio or animations for the shooters that appear

not to meantion 30 seconds before a sliding mauler with no audio or animations breaking all my toughness

[unreal nova]

Sounds like bad packet loss.

[narrow frost]

has been going on for like 5 hours at the point

[unreal nova]

Think some US servers might just be really karked.

[willow tendon]

I opted out of focus target and survivalist and grabbed weapon spec that way

[frank basin]

Thought you panic swinging the melee

[graceful jetty]

Is there a list of dump stats somewhere for veteran weapons?

I looked through pins but I don’t see anything

[narrow frost]

DUMP STATS
Melee Weapons

Mobility Dump

Combat Blade/Combat Axe/"Devil's Claw" Sword/Tactical Axe/Assault Chainsword/Shock Maul/Relic Blade

Defences Dump

Heavy Sword/Assault Chainaxe/Thunder Hammer

Other Dump

Crusher (Power Output/Defences)
MK3 Eviscerator (Mobility)
MK15 Eviscerator (Cleave)
MK2 Duelling Sword (Mobility)
MK4 Duelling Sword (Cleave Damage)
MK5 Duelling Sword (Defences)

Ranged Weapons

Mobility Dump

Shredder Autopistol/Combat Shotgun/Vigilant & Infantry Autoguns/Infantry Lasgun/Quickdraw Stub Revolver/Double-Barrelled Shotgun

Collateral Dump

Bolt Pistol/Boltgun/Recon Lasgun

Other Dump

Braced Autogun MK8 (Mobility)
Braced Autogun MK2 & MK4 (Collateral)
Purgation Flamer (Damage)
Heavy Laspistol MK2 (Stability)
Heavy Laspistol MK10 (Mobility)

this from zealot chat

but it still works for vet

[hollow ibex]

it's literally the second pin...

[narrow frost]

shovel dump defense, helbore stability, power sword cleave targets, plasma 71 charge 69 thermal

[graceful jetty]

Thanks king

[narrow frost]

but this is in the 2nd most recent pin

[graceful jetty]

Yeah I was reading that and for the dueling sword it doesn’t mention the mobility dump on the mk2 so I wanted to double check to make sure it’s still accurate

[narrow frost]

it is outdated but dumps dont change

[hollow ibex]

95% of it is still applicable tho

vet's barely changed

[unreal nova]

Just CaB and Killzone value is better now.

Even if you would take CaB anyway if going survivalist.

[spare pond]

what are the builds used for Havoc 30+?

[grand perch]

ok

[hollow ibex]

what's that title?

oh thought that's a purple title

wait it is

looks yellow on my screen

[quiet valley]

I've run into this guy 3 times in pubs

he has rage quit all 3 matches

he pulled a Deamonhost and left the game the last time I played with him lmao

[narrow frost]

I'm surprised they can level when they leave the instant they die

[hollow ibex]

wonder how many hours they have in the game

[dry cloak]

for completing mortis trails stories

[hollow ibex]

ah that's why i don't have it

[dry cloak]

farming maurice trails

[grand perch]

this time he left even before deployment

[tame lodge]

You should

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blink-blinkingcat-cute-funny-gif-8859604814399687515

[faint beacon]

Probably saw something they didn't like lmao

[tame lodge]

I've been playing death dealer plasma gun

[grand perch]

maybe he saw ApocalypSe

[tame lodge]

It's peak and so ass at the same time

[grand perch]

that an EU server ogryn player, most selfish player i know

[faint beacon]

Why does that name ring a bell

Usually if I recall a name its 65% a bad thing if I dont have them added

that or they're just incredibly high leveled

[grand perch]

he slike level 1200

[faint beacon]

How selfish is all I ask

[grand perch]

ammo vacuum, takes several healing charges from the same station to heal like 10% missing health, simply ignores hounded players etc etc

[faint beacon]

Ogryn player

I'll just say that right now

they've become the new Zealot stereotype

think they're hot shit and purposely throw matches so they can ego run

[unreal nova]

That's normal.

You let a class be able to go loner, you get such.

[grand perch]

nah hes always been like that

i remember an occasion from like a year ago

[unreal nova]

Well, I meant more in general. More toxic oggies now than before rework.

[faint beacon]

A lot more

Its cause they know they can get away with BS they shouldn't get away with

[dry cloak]

thats why its important for competent oggy players to be proper oggies

and help da lil uns

[unreal nova]

More or less, make something OP and all the toxic worms get attracted to it to ego stroke their bad behaviours.

[faint beacon]

it doesn't fucking help I cant find a singular Public match not filled with the most boring ogryn playstyle known to man

Rumblers

nothing but fucking rumblers

I dont want to be subjected to Smite 2 I want to actively fight a horde

[unreal nova]

Also what happens when something is more op than anything else.

[faint beacon]

its Smite all over again with turning the game off

[unreal nova]

Is ranged DS for oggy. OP so everyone uses.

[faint beacon]

Its so fucking boring

[dry cloak]

swinging riper around is more fun

[unreal nova]

Nu. Kickback boom.

[dry cloak]

also is good answer

[tame lodge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/eYEkXxBWMZw?si=2botRU16_cHwpiaH

[rancid egret]

#veteran-class:

[unreal nova]

You mean, cracks open oysters in one move.

[faint beacon]

I was about to say, why do you think the Entrenchment tool was the go too choice for Trench Combat in WW1 outside of makeshit melees or Knives

[unreal nova]

You can cave in someone's head with a high quality one.

[loud belfry]

[fossil lake]

Armourbane is so many krak grenades 😩

[open ravine]

I wonder if darktide will be down this Sunday as generally for these bigger updates fatshark takes the servers down either the day before or on the day to update everything server side

[dry cloak]

would be unsuprising

[mighty anvil]

lasgun's viable in endgame?

[severe finch]

cant say ive ever heard the kantrael (infantry lasgun) being bad the helbores are for role play or challenges but id not say they shine at higher diffs and the recon lasgun can melt anything so long as you can keep it fed

also need to decide what melee i wanna level out next between the dueling sword the combat axe and the shovel any recomendations and "rolls" i should hunt for

[open ravine]

Yes but not the best choice and also you will see a lot of people praise the recon like its the best thing ever but it not, it's just a above average weapon if you get the right build.

[severe finch]

yeah i just like it cause its the closest ill ever get to a Type XIV (Heavy) haha

it and the CIAG are my favorite weapons outside the helbore (but thats for matching my uniform)

[open ravine]

The recon brain rot is really bad on the vet channel

To the point they say plasma is a bad weapon

[severe finch]

plasma can be good i just dislike how it plays myself

[open ravine]

Like if you think plasma is bad you just haven't actually learnt to play with it

[dusty nacelle]

Glad to see that after like an entire year the servers still have this problem 🙏

[open ravine]

I understand but it doesn't change the fact plasma is one of the vets most powerful weapons

[severe finch]

dont disagree i just prefer my full autos haha

[open ravine]

I like big guns of all flavours especially warcrime ones and so I love the Plasma

[primal zealot]

i think they should just up the cheesiness of the vet

[severe finch]

out of curiosity what do you run for perks (level tree) and on the weapon itself

[primal zealot]

for lack of a better word

[open ravine]

Yeah servers were feeling real choppy today

[severe finch]

cause i havent used it since before they add the new weapon overhaul system

so i had this

[primal zealot]

think about it - ogryns big n strong, zealot has the emperors blessing, the psyker is just freakin out

the vet is just a regular dude like u or me

[severe finch]

so now that rolling is viable i might replace it with good stats and give it another go

[primal zealot]

bingbingwahooing his way through the cold celestial abyss

[primal zealot]

i need to remember this every time i hop on vet n say I HATE THE PLASMA BUFF IT

i only do it when i get tilted by a dozen bulwarks

[open ravine]

So you actually want the 2 blessings for high heat which is the Crit and strength ones and then swap groaners for carapace. Brittleness and rending do basically nothing for plasma as it already has basically 100% armour pen

[severe finch]

yeah thats one of the things killing me trying to get back into the game is im having to relearn everything again so i can even get back into auric/havoc stuff again

[primal zealot]

yea so never take groaners or that shit

[severe finch]

that was its default roll

got that plasma a week after the game came out

never touched it after a few runs

[primal zealot]

holy crap a fellow og

[severe finch]

clarification

xbox day 1

just moved to pc recently

[primal zealot]

welcome home

[severe finch]

haha was always just a matter of saving the money for it

it is a lot nicer being able to aim properly

[open ravine]

I do wish they didn't ever Nerf the plasma damage to bulwarks as it used to do 100% damage through their shields and now it only does 30% but any it's still 30% more than any other weapon in the game

[primal zealot]

yea infinite percent over nothing

[open ravine]

I have been a plasma main since the beta

[primal zealot]

based

btw i love plasma chads who kill bulwarks

and also krak chads who kill bulwarks

[severe finch]

i have been a kriegsman since i got my first helbore sadly its not super good in top diffs so i had to pick up other things haha

[open ravine]

People moan about how plasma feels but people love having a plasma on the team. Make it make sense

[primal zealot]

i pour u one shot of ogryn corpsewhiskey rations for each one

[severe finch]

i miss my kraks but people argued with me about the frags having more utility so ik which to ever carry

[primal zealot]

lack of using it. funky gun. i try to use it like a slug kickback

its the weird delay that fucks ppl up

and for me its going melee ogryn to vet

[open ravine]

Apparently if you build it towards Crit it can do decent in top diffs but I think you basically have to sweat hard for it to work

[severe finch]

yep

[primal zealot]

also dependent on your team comp

[severe finch]

its rate of fire also makes it lack luster as anything except a sniper rifle for elites

[primal zealot]

yea but big elites too

ofc a chadgryn or superevilpsyker will mog most

but its not all about the board

unless u win

then its only about the board

[severe finch]

lol i dont even care about the board i just dont like being dead weight

[primal zealot]

[open ravine]

I don't use board anymore as I don't try sweat anymore and just enjoy my time

[primal zealot]

i only chase numbers against frens

rest of the time i just find it interesting

especially comparing those numbers vs relative contribution

[severe finch]

you got any way specific you setup your talents for plasma or just generic vet build? (for plasma)

[primal zealot]

like sure another dps wouldve scored higher than the bubble psyker but that not the point

[open ravine]

Plasma works for about any build but I like to use with shout and shredder grenades

[severe finch]

ight ill poke around at some talents and see what i come up with then

[primal zealot]

yea ofc with the exception of specific builds

big differnce of auric v havoc

[open ravine]

Get the 5% toughness on kill and it will allow you to ignore vent damage

Nice for unchanged spams

[severe finch]

okay cool

[open ravine]

the most powerful of the cosmetics that only the chosen have

[primal zealot]

lmao same

pissed i didnt buy the ogryn leopard print pants that week

id pay like $50-100 for them at this point

jk i wouldnt but id give em a g for the tagilla mask

[severe finch]

cries in console at the time

anyways back to the grind

[open ravine]

hopefully one day fatshark just get rid of the fomo shop but it will require a miracle from the god emperor

I want a vermintide style cash shop

[primal zealot]

(its lore accurate cus were only in M2C1 in the imperial calendar

[primal zealot]

it requires firing consultants

they dont even have the 🪨 🪨 to jack up the prices so instead they starve us

[willow tendon]

How about no shop at all

[open ravine]

i want to play vet but my psyker is level 24 and he is my last class i need to get to 30

[open ravine]

I like some of the drip

[primal zealot]

lvl him dude

[willow tendon]

A crazy wild idea but what if it was earned through gameplay

[primal zealot]

we just had event for that

it was ok

[open ravine]

We got earnable rags

[umbral scaffold]

We have this implementation already.

[primal zealot]

dude we got the moneystore dollars

[willow tendon]

Which are devalued by existence of paid cosmetics because they are higher quality

[open ravine]

A bit low though they should have made it at least a 1000

[primal zealot]

yea i know

[open ravine]

But it is progress

[primal zealot]

preachin to the choir, interrogator

by the emperor i command thee to sell my brutish friend here a welding mask and some leopard print pants

[severe finch]

not to bad on the first run but by god i forgot how long the reload on it is haha

[mighty anvil]

After all these years, im still addicted to WS Bolt Pistol.

[open ravine]

bolt pistol is nice

[willow tendon]

share build?

[mighty anvil]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9bcd44a6-6a8c-48b6-b439-7dde7d9c3e6b/varangian-guard-krak-grenade-voice-of-command-weapon-specialist

[willow tendon]

interesting

[mighty anvil]

Hoping Arbites class has a similar build for weapon swapping

[severe finch]

they made a post on some of his abilites and what the trees specalize in

https://www.playdarktide.com/news/dev-blog-arbites-talent-tree

[open ravine]

They said focus on shotguns but none so of the perks shown are tied specifically to shotguns so I am wondering if other weapons will be much stronger on them than taking a shotgun

[copper ingot]

too soon to tell it, they only show blitz, team buff and skill nothing more

[steep flower]

Obviously lmao

[steep flower]

If boltgun will be available to them its obvious; bolt pistol, revolvers too

[balmy flume]

We know for sure there are revolvers

Just not sure about any other guns beyond revolver and shotty

Also Arbites Shotty should punch miles better than Vet ones

[steep flower]

If arbites; a bulky guy who goes in face first with a riot shield cannot use a boltgun then i have no comment

Ofc he will use it

[balmy flume]

I mean, you can't one hand a boltgun as a normal human.

But I agree it makes sense for Arbites to have bolt weapons as options

(If with shield needs to be Bolt Pistol)

[open ravine]

I feel the arbite revolver might be stronger than standard but it will have to be seen

[steep flower]

I am not so sure about the flamer tho; its an iconic zealot weapon but arbites could use it too

[steep flower]

If the shield will interact with single handed range weapons then thats very good; bolt pistol, revolvers, las pistols

[open ravine]

I don't know because flamer is clearly stated on character creation to be the zealot unique

[steep flower]

Since Arbites will have reload speed aura and +dmg on reload for guns; you reload your boltgun up until the final portion of the animation, stow it away and when horde of carapace/bosses come, you pull your boltgun out, reload with the last portion of the animation which is gonna be fast, get +dmg cause of reload & start blasting! EZ

[nimble wadi]

[finite hawk]

do we know how much % is the reload aura? Could be fun on a double shotty with Both Barrels...

[copper ingot]

if it will be like 20-30% it may be worth it

but i bet it will be not more like 10-15%

[grand perch]

I'd guess more like 5%

[clever hedge]

All speculation till next week

[true jackal]

hopefully it's on the impactful side either way

[clever hedge]

But 15 would be sweet

Especially for double barrel

[magic aurora]

It will not inteteact with any ranged weapons

The shield + shotpistol is a unique ranged weapon for the arbites

[steep flower]

Thats nice; will see if its gonna melt stamina just like deflector force swords dies when you get shot by 1 shooter

Shooter resistance when fatfish?

[steep flower]

Even if its gonna be 5% its gonna be good; unlike fireteam

[steep flower]

Lol never

[steep flower]

10% at most mah guy

[clever hedge]

It could be something crazy like 35%

[dry niche]

I can't imagine it being more than 10%

[sonic kayak]

About tree fiddy

[slow spade]

we all know the instant you pick the reload aura, Fatshark will personally give you only 3 psyker teams UwU

[unreal nova]

Gunkers though.

[slow spade]

if you queue with 3 gunkers, they're going to run out of ammo before the first room

so self-creating problem

[finite hawk]

the reload aura is their default one, right? So there'll be two values anyway

[clever hedge]

Correct, a base and then the upgraded one

[steep flower]

Nah bruv

[frank ledge]

How would you guys make veteran better?

[steep flower]

By making better builds than what circulates now & by playing better

[grand perch]

Disposable leman russ ability

[clever hedge]

I can dream harold

[frank ledge]

That hasn't worked

[steep flower]

For you; i’m thriving

[tame lodge]

For starters, make the tree better

Then we get into weapon balancing shenanigans

[clever hedge]

And then make determined a passive and not a node

[steep flower]

Make the grenade rework just like it is for oggy so you can use any grenade without point taxing

[steep flower]

Then exec stance should get something extra cause it has that

[tame lodge]

Reduce stamina delay

[steep flower]

Yeah that is a must… vet being the only class with stamina regen delay nodes

[frank ledge]

I see

What about your keystones?

[steep flower]

Reduce the bonuses for marksmans focus but make it affect melee too

Same for martydom on zealot but in reverse

Other than that vet keystones are good

[copper ingot]

just better skill tree, with much better connection between nods

[steep flower]

Oh almost forgot; buff kraks by;

• reducing fuse time
• increasing base cap to 3 (ogryn had 2 boxes now its 3 why kraks are still 2 quantity?!)
• make it stick to captains even after the void shield comes back (bonus; if it was stuck to a captain and he regains his shields before detonation that explosion will dmg the hp of the captain not the shield)
• make the pull out slightly faster (just like shredders; stun grenades have the same issue on zealot)

[unreal nova]

Also, longshot is now ramping damage up to a cap based on time from you were last hit in melee.

[grand perch]

That would be kind of cool

[grand perch]

Imagine the full unnerfed MMF 15 stack finesse bonus applying to dueling swords

[unreal nova]

Will make some ppl nut.

[steep flower]

Yeah it is what it is; but atleast that keystone would be considered highly for picking (especially because almost every good vet build specs on the left and in order to reach the keystone they have to spend max 2 talents)

[steep flower]

Now that i thought about it for a moment; imagine your beloved taxe with it

All that finesse multi on a finesse weapon

[grand perch]

i want it

i need it

[nimble wadi]

Abolish taxe

[steep flower]

I knew it; i knew where to poke

[neat stratus]

Hows the top 4 class doin?

[hollow ibex]

Enjoying the last few days that it's still the top 4 class

[void dragon]

Waiting for arbiters to come to become 5th best class

[neat stratus]

Veteran buff is gonna go crazy

2% ammo capacity increase

3% toughness boost

[heavy rover]

The top 5 classes are:

• Vet
• Vet
• Vet
• Vet
• Vet

[void dragon]

Veteran's top power doesn't need buff, but it's build variety do needs help, from Exe stance to MMF rework

[scenic ivy]

the other classes shit talk vet

[loud belfry]

[void dragon]

Ogryn and Psyker doing its job but better

[heavy rover]

they're just jealous they don't have Deadshot

[clever hedge]

They might be but never seen 4 psykers win a run 😎

[void dragon]

Jealousness over Longshot

[hollow ibex]

Honestly I feel like psyker makes a better zealot than zealot sometimes

[void dragon]

Oddly Deadshot + shock trooper makes for a quite good combo with Laspistol to just keep shooting like a main weapon

[void dragon]

They do have more damage, even if less toughness regen

Glass cannons

Also assail weaving makes melee fight more fun

[hollow ibex]

Yeah way less tanky but honestly survivability is still good in AM

[hollow ibex]

Yes exactly

[heavy rover]

Yeah, it does get pretty crazy with the laspistol, especially if you also run riposte

[void dragon]

Legit used a build that use the Laspistol as main weapon with it and the stamina regen from focus fire and it worked surprisingly well

[heavy rover]

Same, I've got two builds: One for las pistol and one for infantry las. Both use markasman focus w/ stamina regen and it goes crazy

Put Ghost on both of the las weapons and I can take down gunners without any problem

[steep flower]

I dunno man

[void dragon]

You know what vet does better than the other classes?
Grenades
They should make the grenades of the class much cooler and probably customizable in a rework imo, make them the demolition class

[steep flower]

Vet has good consistent buffs with no conditions

[void dragon]

In perspective of other games: historically speaking static buffs are usually ignored, non perceived and boring for the player

[steep flower]

Access to debuffs, field improv (underrated af)

[void dragon]

Even of their value is immens

[steep flower]

And thats a mistake

[void dragon]

Field improv is legit great

[grand perch]

path mentioned he wanted a sapper grenadier style class as a 4th vet tree
imagine if we got demolition packs as a grenade option. make them tabletop accurate and have friendly fire activated while barely being able to throw them far enough to not get hit by it

[vocal lagoon]

idk about that one chief, I think it's pretty obvious when I get that big golden bar on my toughness bar

[steep flower]

Better; cluster grenades thrown by hand; like crudely strapped together and thrown with a stick

[grand perch]

laspistol is my go to havoc 40 weapon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRblg6sSHh0
scavs really opened my eyes to the mark X

[void dragon]

Now do it with the MK2 again

But seriously, will give this a look, want to make a mkX once I have the coins from gambling for plasma

[void dragon]

Would be crazy that Vet could get on an hypothetical rework more than 3 blitzes? Maybe some new ones like an actual auspex scan device like the one in SM2

[nimble wadi]

Man I wish vraks 5 had a little bit bigger clip

[narrow frost]

It's fine it combos really well with the fast reload

My newest video you can see me using it only against purple maulers and reapers

Sometimes special and bosses (BoN)

[hollow ibex]

IAG reloads are so nice

Brauto reloads feel glacial

[robust granite]

Good Helbore blessings if you're using executioner's stance?

[nimble wadi]

Yeah it’s just a tease

[steep flower]

Which mark?

[robust granite]

I think the second mark is the better one? I'm not sure 100%.

[hollow ibex]

You'll definitely need surgical

[robust granite]

Ahh, true

[steep flower]

Mk3 do be really good

[hollow ibex]

And then after that it's weight of fire on the slow one, and hotshot on the faster ones

Or armorbane

[robust granite]

Might do armorbane

[steep flower]

Or falter; i use falter on mk3; will recommend

[robust granite]

mk3 recommendations

noted...

[hollow ibex]

For stagger on specialists?

[steep flower]

And reapers & gunners if they survive yes

[robust granite]

seems like falter would have to be paired with no respite, wouldn't it?

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that's definitely an option

[hollow ibex]

You don't drop surgical on helbore ever

[steep flower]

Mk3 charge is not long enough fir weight of fire to be a mandatory blessing; it still can be used but once you get used to it its a very noce rythm

[steep flower]

I use falter & surgical on mk3; its good try it

[hollow ibex]

I personally prefer mkiv because if I take a helbore I want carapace damage

[steep flower]

Path made a table for helbore stagger points

[robust granite]

Ooooh. Is it good for taking out crushers and reapers?

[steep flower]

And falter has nice breakpoints

[hollow ibex]

I'll try it out at some point but on mk 4 WOF is really nice to have

[robust granite]

So I'd assume it's flak armored and carapace for blessings

or unyielding/carapace

[steep flower]

The mk3 does not do remarkably againts crushers even with buffs; mk4 is best but its dogwater slow & has unskippable timer between shots; if you try it in psykanium with weight of fire stacks you’ll see what i mean

Also dogshit special

[robust granite]

ahh, rip

[steep flower]

Flak & maniac for me

[hollow ibex]

The bayonet can kill one poxxwr at a time, assuming weakspot hit

[robust granite]

noice

[hollow ibex]

I'd test to make sure you can get reliable two shots against crushers and maulers without carapace perk

[warm kettle]

I'm finally trying out a knife/melee build (mostly right tree stuff), and am messing around with the combat blade now. Is the punch good for anything in particular, or is it one of those funny combo-reset meta things?

[stuck tree]

gimme

[robust granite]

How do you two shot crushers and maulers? o.o

[robust granite]

Oh wait nevermind, I can two shot maulers

[hollow ibex]

Needs crits. I mean technically you can build for one shot but it's not super practical

[steep flower]

This is what @tall torrent made

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386

[robust granite]

I can two shot maulers

Crushers are a pain

[steep flower]

Ppl were doubting my falter pick for helbore but guess what

[void dragon]

For what mk of Helbore gun falter is good? I see numbers but I don't get calligraphy, so I don't understand

[steep flower]

Mk3

The middle child, the green one

[void dragon]

Will make that one just for it, would need to come up with a build for it specifically tho

[hollow ibex]

What do you take to deal with carapace when you use mk 3?

PS?

[clever hedge]

Probably the best choice

You will need the horde clear and the carapace damage

[hollow ibex]

Yeah and you prob won't be able to afford trench fighter

[void dragon]

So blessings are surgical and falter, right?

[hollow ibex]

On mk3 I guess

Idk about mk5

And dropping WOF on mark IV is sketchy

[void dragon]

Yeah, you still want that to chain charged shots, on the right build they hit like a truck

[sharp epoch]

ds

[narrow frost]

Taxe

[hollow ibex]

Mk II and VII hurt my hands too much unfortunately

[tame lodge]

Good

Don't use taxe

Taxe bad

[clever hedge]

1 week till shotgun vet returns to meta

[grand perch]

im playing around with making the ILAS mk9 good at killing armour

its a start

[hollow ibex]

Looking at that buff bar

[grand perch]

yeah you really have to stack em up

and make talent sacrifices. this build has no grenade regen of any kind

[tame lodge]

Trash build already

[void dragon]

Stand still: the build

[tame lodge]

[grand perch]

you continue to be irritating for the sake of being irritating

[void dragon]

That is a crippling sacrifice if you ask me

[tame lodge]

[grand perch]

it is. its just a challenge build

[grand perch]

suppose ill drop shock trooper for demo team to make it less painful to play

[vapid thunder]

gotta love joining a mission and hearing the fail music while in loading screen

[narrow frost]

You can thank the people who leave when they go down

Normalize not leaving when downed

[void dragon]

Cowards the lots of em

[hollow ibex]

I leave only if my team doesn't pick me up (it's always their fault)

[narrow frost]

Did a content creator or someone post a vod of them leaving when downed it's so common in auric rn

[vapid thunder]

lasguns without shock trooper

[narrow frost]

It might also be people learning from each other and since most good players are in havoc rn they are only learning bad habits from the auric pubs

[tame lodge]

They'll be aight

[narrow frost]

Party finder havoc 40 will always be funny

[tame lodge]

Naturally ammo efficient

[tame lodge]

Exec shotgun

[vapid thunder]

thats what i was running when i first started playing the game

[void dragon]

Genuinely people don't have a clue how to react when a boss spawn, I see myself as the only one not moving forward as a boss spawn

[narrow frost]

It's also the influx of new players before a bit update

Been seeing only levels 30-50 in auric past week or so

[steep flower]

Caxe can work too, chainaxe , shock maul (unironically), shovels (mk3 best)

[void dragon]

Still, I'm sure I'm not that much of level and I have the common sense to not march to my death

[vapid thunder]

i mean yea it unlocks immediately at 30 and nothing tells you to wait

[narrow frost]

Yeah, sadly progression is terribly explained

As per fatshark standard

[void dragon]

No wonder I see ppl with under upgraded weapons

[narrow frost]

Hopefully it's somewhat addressed on 23rd

[edgy dew]

What IS the intended progression after damnation? I returned to the game a week ago, havoc 20 so far, haven't touched auric or mortis trials

[stiff cipher]

I’ll be real idk know if I have a good class rn just because I’m a little bit special

[stiff cipher]

Same no idea what I’m doing haven’t played in years

[open ravine]

If I want to play havoc I would have to play on 100+ ping as nobody plays it in the south African server

[stiff cipher]

Ouch

[open ravine]

And thus I have never played it

[edgy dew]

I've noticed the willingness of ppl to join/accept you into a havoc lobby dropped like a rock once I got to 20, ppl were more than happy to help a low ranked lobby before then

[void dragon]

114 ping is def playable, but more than that has... issues

[hollow ibex]

Auric/AM/climbing havoc. Personally I CBA to deal with havoc

Mortis trials is mainly for penances and memes

So I just do quick play

[faint beacon]

Honestly hoping they add something similar to like Cata as a difficulty beyond Damnation but something still casual to play

Like a bridge between Damnation/Auric and Havoc

But with how the game barely is held up doubt it

[vapid thunder]

lwk just remove auric heresy

and then add something above auric damnation

does chaxe pair well with recon lasgun?

[tame lodge]

Good carapace weapon

[vapid thunder]

past 20 ive heard you need to be much more coordinated

are these actually good curios

[true jackal]

combat ability regen is basically worthless last I checked

12% is nothing compared to the cdr you get from talents and such

[vapid thunder]

is chaxe dump defense

[tame lodge]

Yup

[true jackal]

really?

I use push attack a lot on chaxe

[vapid thunder]

which mk chaxe is best

[true jackal]

so I figure mobi would be the better dump(not that either actually effect raw damage)

[tame lodge]

The you you prefer

[vapid thunder]

god both are impressively ugly machines

[steep flower]

or mob; def gives you push cost and if you're using mk4 (which you should) you will be pushing alot

[steep flower]

mah man knows

[steep flower]

for a 30 sec cooldown 3 cooldowns shave off 4 secs off your cooldown; you get 26 sec instead of 30; it is not worthless its mandatory - do you have any idea how many things can happen within 4 secs? LOTS

[true jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

[steep flower]

irl yes; in-game no

[void dragon]

I usually see it as more Ult per mission, so you can take your yellow meds and Exe stance in chain for extra damage on skill activation

[vapid thunder]

until you have 10 other cdr talents

[steep flower]

its still 4 secs

stack em

and you will have more ability casts = more winning

[vapid thunder]

@quiet valley why do you go ogryn over all human ranged on your hellbore build?

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/chud-buddha-chuddha-chud-nothing-ever-happens-gif-5905117637949226818

[steep flower]

i can understand this pick; cause exec stance dmg buff you wanna use for big targets and if you focus reapers first you might not be fast enough to kill a marked enemy and your ability ends

[languid dune]

Never actually used it so was wondering how does Sunder stack up to BM for Power Sword?

[woven viper]

I FINALLY GOT THE "ON OVERWATCH" PENANCE

My life is complete

[raven sedge]

Bolt pistol dump stat? Mobility?

[vapid thunder]

what mission is best for on overwatch i need to get it at some point

[woven viper]

I just got it on a low intensity w the smelter

[void dragon]

Isn't it collateral for Bistol? I think having it as mobility stick is a good idea

[true jackal]

shrimply get lucky and play well

[tame lodge]

Sunder helps with density but BM has better clear

Sunder is pretty good on mk3 because perfectly horizontal heavies

Lovely

[true jackal]

I mean neither effect damage, so it'd be mainly up to preference

and collat can make follow up shots harder, but idk how much of an issue that is outside of ogryn weapons

[grand perch]

as willy pointed out, helbore is fantastic at taking care of ogryns in a single shot. so you focus them first tipically and need to keep exec going meanwhile

[hasty grove]

I finally got the call center headset

[grand perch]

you did the needful

[tame lodge]

It's peak

The shitty mic headset

[void dragon]

"MourningStar tech assistant, what is your issue?...have you tried praying to it with bigger candles?"

[hasty grove]

All of my Veteran outfits are mo complete

[sonic kayak]

I reserve it for my sergeant loadout

[hasty grove]

Literally all Warhammer tech support

“Idk man, maybe try praying a bit harder” hangs up

[void dragon]

Needs to call a tech priest to burn some incense to it

[sonic kayak]

Sir and or madam, please state your issues. Yes, sir and or madam. I see, sir and or madam. Perhaps you have tried initiating the Ritual of Awakening on your cogitator? Maybe performing the Ritual of Glorious Slumber before that? Mayhaps you have cited the Litany of Glorious Performance?

[vague wigeon]

I wish it didn't looked that bad, lol

Bc i have it.

and gosh, i miss the days when volley fire was actually good

[vapid thunder]

does uncanny strike apply to your ranged weapon as well

[serene bough]

it applies to shredders so yeah probably

[neon pecan]

bruh why does this tree punish me so hard for wanting to run smoke grenades lol

[hollow ibex]

Wdym. Right side is goated smh

[ornate dirge]

Were you in a car crash recently

[vapid thunder]

bc smokes are the worst grenade in the entire game

[neon pecan]

It's silly I have to spend 2 points to get survivalist and then more to go over to the right side again. It just kinda results in being punished in running smokes since Survivalist is such an important Aura.

Instead of it making people take survivalist less, it results in people taking smokes less, because frag grenades are good and right above the best aura

[neon pecan]

I like em 🤷‍♂️ I agree they are weak af, thats why im saying its dumb they push it away even further by having you spend 2 points to go back to survivalist. Just means its even harder to justify smokes

[ornate dirge]

PREACH

Scabs ate my ass

:3

[quiet valley]

It lets you chain Exec stance for targets that need the extra dmg from Exec stance, you can pop shooters without Exec stance up

[hollow ibex]

Surv is overrated. Close and kill is unironically better usually

[quiet valley]

Wild

[ornate dirge]

Disgusting, you have a reddit account

You monster

[faint beacon]

0 mention of fire team

Kill them

[hollow ibex]

Worst aura

Only good for pathing

[quiet valley]

Console player

[ornate dirge]

You minority

[neon pecan]

IDK about that, giving up to 300% free ammo regen to everyone in coherency for a 30 min havoc 40 is really good, only intrinsic way to feed ammo to team as well right. Will say in T5 and lower its not as good.

[hollow ibex]

In havoc it's good true

But smoke is actually much better in havoc

[vapid thunder]

what blessings/perks on chaxe

[hollow ibex]

Than in auric/AM

[neon pecan]

I agree, I love using smokes in Havoc

[hollow ibex]

Outside of havoc I don't think surv is very useful

[neon pecan]

That's why I'm bummed about the cost investment to go smokes to Survivalist to shout.

[faint beacon]

You can play anything in auric Mael

And hell even Havoc

The only difference with Havoc is you need team coordination

[quiet valley]

In Auric you take whatever aura has the best pathing

[hollow ibex]

I just don't run shout

[faint beacon]

That’s literally it

[quiet valley]

Infil user detected

[tame lodge]

Fire grenades

[faint beacon]

Why do you think it’s far more frowned upon to all split up in H40

[hollow ibex]

[neon pecan]

thats fair lol, it only saves a point going down left so I usually take it over left tree, depends on my weapons tho

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/honestreaction-gif-27666449

[neon pecan]

do zealot pyro nades have any way of scaling at all?

[true jackal]

pathing is doodoo ass for them is their biggest issue(afaik)

trying to take them deviates from the "build™️ "

[tame lodge]

They probably scale with your blessings and such
But it's a set value

Deals more damage to unarmored and infested

And enemies can path to avoid it entirely

[true jackal]

can and will seems like

[tall torrent]

Practically no diff on important stagger breakpoints

[neon pecan]

That seems to be the issues with most trees - some blitzes just become the best picks because of how they position them in the trees with point costs. It stifles a lot of creativity. I think Ogryn blitzes are best set in tree from what I remember.

[true jackal]

never noticed it until today that enemies go around fire, even the groaners if they can

[serene bough]

smokes are worse imo

[tame lodge]

Yeah
Yours

[serene bough]

i dont see many people bring the stun grenade on zealot

[true jackal]

same deal with pathing issues

[tame lodge]

Just like me and my opinion

Yeah

Mine

[serene bough]

what are you saying

[true jackal]

stun grenades are good(last I checked at least) but again it deviates from the "build™️ " so you don't take them

[serene bough]

yeah true zealot really only has 1 main path

smokes are the same issue giving up surv and shredders not advised

[tame lodge]

Did ogryn box ever get tweaked or something

[hollow ibex]

It got buffed

With the rework

[tame lodge]

Did it manage to escape the title of worst grenade?

[serene bough]

box is pretty good

[true jackal]

you get 3 of them now

[void dragon]

Box is prob greatest nadé nowadays

[serene bough]

i would've argued kraks had the title for worst nade but with the change to havoc's focus on boss DPS they actually have a pretty good use

[void dragon]

Give it fire and it also cleans a room

[serene bough]

smokes just assist the lowest priorities problems in havoc

[void dragon]

Even then they have some issues (like how bad they perform vs captain bosses)

[serene bough]

kraks are only used on bulwarks and monstros shouldn't bother with captians

and i guess the occasional reaper

[quiet valley]

Smokes > Kraks in terms of usefulness in Havoc

[serene bough]

disagree i groan when i see smokes

[void dragon]

Smokes >>>>>>>>>>> other nades >>>> kraks

[true jackal]

smokes entirely shut down shooters yeah?

[quiet valley]

Smokes = Pskyer Bubble with infinite HP

[true jackal]

ah

[void dragon]

It's a portable cover

Really useful if you know what you are doing

[serene bough]

they protect against shooters but you'd oought to just slide and use the environment better

they also screw with some enemy AI

[void dragon]

Smokes makes enemy gunners walk into Power speed reach

That is really useful

[serene bough]

thats not always true

[true jackal]

I'm rarely worried about me in matches ngl, if it shuts down the enemy so my allies can do things thats fine to

[void dragon]

But common enough to be useful

[serene bough]

i dont even agree to that they usually run back

[serene bough]

they're not useless but i rarely find gunners an issue in havoc when people play well

id prefer a focus on boss dps or clearing and stunning mixed hordes with shredders

[void dragon]

Imagine one of your team mates just hanging in a corner doing nothing, that's the same as these gunners not shooting your strike team down

[true jackal]

I mean I am also not a vet main and often go into zealot mode to shut down shooters that way

I play wierdish

[tame lodge]

Shut down shooters, Snipers, gunners, reapers, dogs and flamers
Shotgunners, Trappers and Beast of Nurgle will have to get closer

[serene bough]

gunners are just low priority threats realtive to elite armor blobs and multiple bosses creating chaos

and then psyker bubble just does it better w/ buffs

[hollow ibex]

15 percent damage on captains in auroc. WITH tinkerer 😭

[tame lodge]

It also completely stops ranged captain

[void dragon]

The real value comes when those armoured enemy come with a sprinkle of gunner support, with smokes you can get them while they wait in a line

[tame lodge]

Bubble can't stay up for 15 seconds under fire

Bubble can't stop dogs

[serene bough]

you shouldn't be in direct line of fire anyway you should be behind a wall

[void dragon]

Bubble doesn't last that long

You use bubble to make an aggressive engagement or move to a new position

Make the lower time to forcefully take an engagement with those buffs

[serene bough]

i guess, but in my experience aggressive engagements dont require 15s of cover

[void dragon]

Bubble doesn't last 15 seconss

[serene bough]

i know, it doesnt need to, you just need enough space to get in there and lock shooters in melee

[void dragon]

And when you can't because OOPS density! Smokes got yer back

[tame lodge]

Yeah but what about the shooters that still are away from you

Because you know

[serene bough]

you get behind a wall and position better

[tame lodge]

Now you lost shooters melee interest
They started shooting again

[void dragon]

Position better, because we live in a perfect world when that's a guaranteed

[tame lodge]

Sticky time
By beloved

[serene bough]

theyre not shooting bc you're behind cover

[void dragon]

And ergo: you are not engaging them

[serene bough]

what is your point

[neon pecan]

does bleed proc the brittleness on Onslaught?

[tame lodge]

So you're not locking them in melee

You're on a loop now

[serene bough]

you dont need to engage them you can deal with whats in front of yu first then engage them

[tame lodge]

Do you get out of cover

Or do you stay in cover

[void dragon]

Smoke in stand in a fray, swap to your gun, shoot them before smoke expired, you are still fighting in melee

[tame lodge]

Get flanked and overwhelmed

[hollow ibex]

It'll affect the DOT if that's what you're asking

[void dragon]

All while staying in a good position to make a retreat

[hollow ibex]

I mean it feels unfair to discuss bubble in a vacuum

[serene bough]

idk these are all poor reasons to give up such valauble DPS from the other two blitz imo

[neon pecan]

yeah, like if I throw a bleed nade and then have each DOT tick from it create a stack of brittleness

[hollow ibex]

Bubble is good for both excellent utility and because of the rest of psykers kit

Not exactly the same situation as smokes

[void dragon]

There is a reason why frags are so valuable, but you can't dis the smokes when they DO a good job

[neon pecan]

The fact frags can scale off of the explosion increase of LP and the rending bonus from unrelenting makes them pretty crazy if you build hard into them

[hollow ibex]

Oh no. Onslaught requires actually hitting things with your weapons

[serene bough]

my problem is the reason why you'd bring smokes, i.e. to confuse gunners and scramble some AI, are also mitigated by just playing the game better and more conscious of your surroundings, and to give up so much DPS in addition to pathing awkwardness away from survivalist is really not worth the investment for most people

[neon pecan]

ah bummer, ty for letting me know! Was hoping that would be a strong way to cheese large stacks of brittle into hordes

[quiet valley]

I thought we were talking about Kraks vs Smokes

[serene bough]

we can discuss both, but i dont think shredders really deserve much attention given how apparently better it is

[void dragon]

Yeah, when we deal in how OP survivalist is we deviate from the point

[serene bough]

we can ignore surv for the sake of argument

[void dragon]

You are suggesting to use smokes as a passive tool?...why? You toss them to a position to claim it or basically cut their forces in half, killing efficiency, ergo playing the game better

[serene bough]

i wouldnt say passive

but you're giving up DPS to do what a psyker bubble could already do to counter a threat (gunners) that can already be countered by sliding and positioning

[void dragon]

Also the trade is indeed a lot of damage, but that's not always the answer you need, particularly when the enemies are infinite and the point of the fight is making room for an objective

[serene bough]

you can even just slide foward and lock gunners

[void dragon]

Congrats, the ragers in caparace are behind you, and your team isn't with you in "out of position" town

[serene bough]

i dont understand what the point of bringin up random scenarios is to this discussion

i could also make up a scenario where theres no gunners and elite armor blobs and now youre smokes are useless, its not productive

[hollow ibex]

Would be pretty insane lol

[void dragon]

You show random scenario and I present you what usually can happen, because enemies keep spawning in MANY directions, and you need to make a coordinate movement with the team to not be that dangerous, a multi person investment vs using smoke to buy valuable time for all the team to do something together, a less Manpower investment

And yeah, a super coordinated team WILL cut enemies in half no matter the stacked odds, but we go for safety and reliable ways because sh!7 happens

[serene bough]

okay, but why not be safe behind a wall

you're not supposed to deal with both ranged and melee at the same time

[void dragon]

Because time is also your enemy

[serene bough]

at least not always

and again, psyker bubble is just better

it may not last as long but it provides team buffs and is up consistently enough to be actively more useful than giving up your own DPS

[void dragon]

This "not always" also hide a reason why is good, you can't control the case when you have to do it

Map will play against you too

[serene bough]

your predicating your argument on random scenarios which would favor smokes while ignoring scenarios where smokes are not useful

[void dragon]

Aren't you doing the same?

[serene bough]

i think it would be more productive to discuss why youd bring smokes, i.e. gunners and AI scrambling, and further explore why other options are not sufficient enough to the point that you require a blitz slot for it

no, im trying to address why you'd need smokes to counter gunners when you can just use the environment

[void dragon]

After all, they are different options, that is indeeda smart idea

[tall torrent]

smokes can use at least 3 buffs

[serene bough]

okay, but sliding requires no point investment and doesn't sacrifice DPS

[void dragon]

To compete with frags or to be balanced?

[serene bough]

smokes need more support utility baked into them

[void dragon]

Smokes should give the team some benefits to fight in them, kinda how tox bomber gas buff their own units

[serene bough]

id personally prefer if the cloud is active the second you throw it and lingers for a few seconds so you could advance forward in it

as opposed to waiting for it to detonate

[void dragon]

Insta triggering would indeed be great, especially since it seems that ObeseFish has figured impact explosives with Arbites

[serene bough]

all the blitz need to be tuned better in general i guess

kraks and smokes need some buffs and shredders could use some minor nerfs (and not interact w/ uncanny)

[void dragon]

Frags are on a strong position that not even their weak target can fully ignore them

Kraks are not living to their role of single target killers when they perform bad vs captains that are quite common bosses

Smokes have value, but they sacrifice a lot of damage for the utility, useful but a heavy trade ultimately not favorable

[serene bough]

kraks in mixed boss scenarios are nice (mostro & captian) because you can deal pretty sizable chunks to the monstro while simultaneously stunlocking it

the real problem with kraks is that they require so much point tax to use

you basically need all major grenade perks (tinker, stockpile, demo team, extra nade)

and in havoc where there's just so many elites/specials you regenerate them suprisingly easy for inventory to not be an issue with 3 nades

[void dragon]

Making it deal HP damage to captains, have 3 charges and arming a lil faster would make Kraks MILES better (and that is without counting the CC they are losing from the frags, that alone makes frags quite good)

[serene bough]

yeah a quicker detonation and captian damage wouldn't go amiss

[quiet valley]

Kraks single target dmg is laughable, Vet has much better boss DPS options

[serene bough]

its no THammer but its not bad considering how easily kraks regenerate

[void dragon]

Bolter boss erasing program

[serene bough]

obv you wouldn't be able to solo a monsto alone with just kraks

[quiet valley]

Helbore IV Headshots do comparable dmg to Kraks its sad

Recon, Las Pistol, Bolter, Helbore, Plasma are all weapons that will fill your boss DPS role on your loadout

Not to mention the chunks you can take out of bosses with DSIV and PSVI

[serene bough]

pls dont dump plasma shots into monstros

waste of ammo

i use kraks in combo w/ PSVI in my build, and bistol to suppress and pick off elites

currently the best advantage to kraks is how they stun more than the damage they do, but the damage is still good considering its easy to spam

oh, and bulwarks, fuck bulwarks

[hollow ibex]

I'm sure kraks will be buffed by 2027

[serene bough]

its good to see that you're feeling optimistic today

[void dragon]

3040

[vapid thunder]

is recon supposed to do piss damage

[faint beacon]

Yes