veteran-class

[quiet valley]

Try Flak Unyielding, Dum Dum Infernus

[hollow ibex]

bolter gets pinning fire, bistol does not.

[warm schooner]

thanks I'm starting to hit my limit on plasma

[quiet valley]

Bolter also doesn’t get Deadly Accurate

[void dragon]

so it has an easier time while having other benefits like not bein as slow as molases

[hollow ibex]

doesn't need it

i mean sure i wouldn't complain if it did have that

but bolter already wrecks

[quiet valley]

HMU if you need some Havoc builds, I haven’t used Plasma in months in H40

[void dragon]

@hollow ibex you do realize that if bistol had that lil more damage would be FAR better than the bolter, right?

[warm schooner]

yeah I try stuff but go back to plasma because I mostly want to just melee in havoc

[hollow ibex]

you're wrong, but that's ok

[void dragon]

because it CAN hit the breakpoints AND it serve as a GREAT side weapon

[tropic notch]

Das silly

[hollow ibex]

bolter is literally top 1 or top 2 ranged weapon on vet in auric/AM right now

[void dragon]

ok mate, i tried, you so far presented me no evidence so there is no argument to have

[hollow ibex]

i mean i did, you just ignore what i tell you lmfao

and then act like you tried to engage in good faith

[quiet valley]

Yeah it’s useless to argue with some people here…

[hollow ibex]

i concur

[tropic notch]

Puncture and lethal prox my beloved

[void dragon]

im telling you im ACTIVELY testing it NOW

[atomic void]

me when two guns serve different purposes and have a different identity

[hollow ibex]

and i'm telling you bolter is one of the top ranged weapons for vet

and 5% more damage on bistol won't make it top bolter

[void dragon]

yeah, dont we WANT this?

[tropic notch]

Everytime I use bolter I remember plasma exist

[hollow ibex]

and exactly, they're not really comparable anyway despite sharing similar/same damage profiles

[atomic void]

damn i had both agreeing with me
i should become a diplomat

[hollow ibex]

i only compared them initially because they're both bolt weapons

[void dragon]

you would make the Imperium a better place

[tropic notch]

Wish there was a way to make the hsword good against Cara

On vet

[quiet valley]

Well Bolter doesn’t have 50 cleave per shot like Plasma, so it’s immediately garbage

These are literally the arguments you make

[warm schooner]

please fatshark tune vet melee

[tropic notch]

No I’m not taking melee brittle on crit

[hollow ibex]

please point out where i made that argument.

[void dragon]

i feel that its heavy attack overhead should not have so abysmal values,

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-wyd-cat-scratching-cat-scratch-cleaning-screen-gif-15994084353171838166

[void dragon]

that alone would make the weapon soo good

[quiet valley]

Vet Melee in Havoc is PS, DS, or shovel for hybrid builds

It’s pretty sad

[warm schooner]

p much

[atomic void]

bolter: boom boom shackalacka
plasma: shucky ducky quack quack
bolt pistol: pew pew pew pew

[tropic notch]

Don’t worry doe the ds love Cara!

[tame lodge]

😈 Perfect Strike Bladed Momentum 😈

[tropic notch]

SLUGGD

SLOP

I actually use the bolter and revolver with hsword

To deal with crusher spam

[hollow ibex]

still waiting for you to point out the argument i literally made

or surprise surprise, you're pulling shit out of your ass again

[quiet valley]

I literally didn’t see this because of cat gif

[hollow ibex]

ok well, now you have.

[quiet valley]

Basically you are saying the Bistol is bad Because Bolter exists, therefore from your stance, Bolter is bad because Plasma exsists

[hollow ibex]

you're going to claim that, right after i said bolter is one of the best ranged weapons for vet on auric/AM?

[quiet valley]

And no one should use anything except plasma

[hollow ibex]

#veteran-class message

bold

[tropic notch]

Yeah you don’t want deadly accurate and surgical on bistol

[hollow ibex]

very bold

[tame lodge]

[hollow ibex]

not only do you constantly pull shit out of your ass, you're also borderline illiterate

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/easter-doe-eating-deer-eating-popcorn-funny-gif-4621167703268332056

[tropic notch]

Mommy and daddy are fighting

[hollow ibex]

sorry, using plasma is the opposite of chad tbh

[void dragon]

do you need deadly accurate? with puncture alone can kill most of the stuff, surgical just guarantee it when aiming but is not needed

[quiet valley]

What? Can you read? It’s an inferred argument, based on your previous statement.

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/furry-gif-6740888100586417675

[hollow ibex]

"inferred" (pulling shit out of your ass). when i literally just said 10 minutes ago that bolter is one of the best vet guns lol.

incredible

[tropic notch]

I forgot the exact number but it doesn’t scale like it says, it gives like 100 or 50 more damage

[quiet valley]

Also for the record Auric meta literally doesn’t matter since is a sandbox that’s easily beaten with grey weapons

Which is good

[warm schooner]

clearly the only solution is for you two to get into a game and play together

[tropic notch]

And lethal prox is just to buff shedders

[hollow ibex]

darktide, pvp edition

[warm schooner]

and then you can scoreboard compare dicks

[void dragon]

it does around 110 hp iirc

you can 2 shot a reaper

[quiet valley]

Yeah well Siro doesn’t play Havoc so

[void dragon]

but need a minor buff from keystone

[tropic notch]

That’s not terrible without it it’s a 3 or 4 shot right?

[tropic notch]

Yeah I figured that

Mmf?

[void dragon]

yeah 4 shots iirc

wait sorry 3

[quiet valley]

Here’s some scoreboard dick comparisons

[tropic notch]

[tropic notch]

Ur silly

[void dragon]

oh no, they are using SCOREBOARDS?! dont they know thats Toxic and stuff?

[warm schooner]

isn't that half the point of online games

being toxic

[quiet valley]

Ofc

[void dragon]

all internat interactions are to be toxic

its the law

[tropic notch]

Yeah that’s good but keep in mind you’re having to spec into mmf while giving up something like weapons specialist

[quiet valley]

I’m not here to rag on Siro, i just think it’s bad to spread misinformation to new players from a non Havoc player

[void dragon]

im using focus fire for this results

[tropic notch]

Which at that point it’s not worth it

[tropic notch]

Oh my bad

That’s not terrible

[void dragon]

legit only use MMF for Infantry autogun

[quiet valley]

There’s enough misinformation in Darktide already

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/laser-guns-firing-blasters-shooting-plasma-guns-gif-13222472

[hollow ibex]

i'm not the one making shit up about how other people play the game lol

[atomic void]

hating on plasma is haram

iconic weapon

[hollow ibex]

"I think it's bad to spread misinformation"

proceeds to spread misinformation with no basis in fact

[void dragon]

Plasma is what make Warhammer warhammer, it exploding in your hands included

[atomic void]

this

[quiet valley]

I just genuinely want you to experience some good weapons that you have dismissed

There’s not that many weapons in DT, we don’t need to trash all the non meta ones

[hollow ibex]

ah yes, you did this all out of concern for my gameplay experience. how kind of you.

out of my nearly 900 hours in DT

[crimson pebble]

the only weapons that are evil and beyond redemption shockmaul devil claw mk1 and achlys combat axe

[hollow ibex]

i clearly haven't gotten around to trying other weapons

poor ol me

[quiet valley]

Achlys 💀

[atomic void]

nerf shockmaul

[void dragon]

shockmaul deserves the nerf more than any other weapon

[hollow ibex]

yes, and maybe we should buff assail

[narrow frost]

true

[quiet valley]

COMBAT SHOTGUN BUFFS WHEN

[void dragon]

didnt they buffed a patch ago? it do feels great in H30

[fading yarrow]

One hundo Aurics complete

[quiet valley]

Hush you already got Assail buffed last patch

[fading yarrow]

150 to go

[crimson pebble]

real based even

[hollow ibex]

it did? i think it's still underperforming compared to brain burst

i feel like fatshart should nerf BB, and buff assail

gunker suffers

truly needs help

[quiet valley]

Combat Shotties honestly just need a ammo pool buff, and a base reload speed buff

Dmg is fine

[void dragon]

hope that the even with the faction that has combat shotguns as main weapon will bring buffs to thte weapon

[quiet valley]

Here’s coping

[crimson pebble]

no make them only fire their special ammo

[quiet valley]

Also 2027 Vet rework

[hollow ibex]

can't wait for the zealot rework

[atomic void]

change the reload animation all together i hate it

[hollow ibex]

and zealot becoming more powerful than ogryn and psyker combined

[atomic void]

lemme just reload the mag

[void dragon]

make it so you can special reload the entire gun with it

[tame lodge]

Yeah, it went:
Something something struggling to compete with the brain burst and smite (totally legit words by FS) something

[quiet valley]

I would kill for a Blessing for Dual Shell loading

[tame lodge]

Then buffed

[crimson pebble]

better yet give us the dreg and scab shotgund that have DRUM MAGAZINES

[void dragon]

there is shotgun mags? would be cool imo

[quiet valley]

That and No Respite

[hollow ibex]

they prob looked at a spreadsheet and saw that assail was being picked less in havoc or some shit

[void dragon]

BB being fine for Obesefish is crazy imo

[atomic void]

idk the proper term in english
i just hate reloading bullet by bullet lol

[quiet valley]

Nah they looked at the Malice pick rate for Assail, DD, and Sciers

[void dragon]

some people like it, but by it being so low damaging its not really fun

[tame lodge]

They buffed the core of Gunker for no reason

[quiet valley]

AND THEN THEY BUFFED THE 3 strongest nodes for Auric pubstomping

[tame lodge]

[fading yarrow]

I would appreciate Combat Shotguns if they like

Did damage
And also if their alternate fire didn't sound like a blowdart

[tame lodge]

Gotta love the DD refreshing on bosses though

[hollow ibex]

BCOB changes were a nerf tbf

[tame lodge]

That one is all I wanted

[quiet valley]

MMF in shambles

[hollow ibex]

so gunker's suffering now 😭

[tame lodge]

Suffering from success

[void dragon]

its really great to 1v1 the sword twin at full stacks so i can kebab her head

[void dragon]

at a point they should replace MMF with exe stance and give us a new skill to pull a light machingun like Rambo

[quiet valley]

VT2 Dwarf gun

Nah MMT just needs some sweeping changes

[narrow frost]

failed 😔

[void dragon]

not familiar with the game, but YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT AND YOU DONT OBESEFISH?! madge

[narrow frost]

I love this build

[quiet valley]

Manstopper goes crazy

[void dragon]

what's the build?

[narrow frost]

1 min

[quiet valley]

PS, DB, with WS

[narrow frost]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9eef9e6c-a634-498c-a420-3c6e67e30c25

https://youtu.be/E7kb_pMcubw?feature=shared

[warm schooner]

movement speed aura

[narrow frost]

shrimple as

[warm schooner]

this is the kind of heresy I like to see

[void dragon]

amen

[narrow frost]

only scabs will say its bad

see

typing rn

[void dragon]

and SMOKES?!! peak

[narrow frost]

does he know anything else besides shoot

😔

[quiet valley]

Smokes or nah

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/neppico-gif-12490047082767817490

smokes

[quiet valley]

Based

[narrow frost]

@quiet valley

oh

dont think it worked

[quiet valley]

F

[narrow frost]

nevermind

it works

[warm schooner]

wrath instead of bm?

[quiet valley]

I do a lot of shooting with less ammo pickups than ‘Melee build’ tho

[narrow frost]

las lover

try it without shocktrooper

hmmm

[quiet valley]

DB is great but it’s hungi

[narrow frost]

ammo is meant to be used

[quiet valley]

By the Rumbler Ogryn

[narrow frost]

boring

[quiet valley]

It’s ok, Vet grenade launcher 2025

Our promised weapon

[faint beacon]

@narrow frost Simple

Warm up via hell

[narrow frost]

lmao

brb

[faint beacon]

POX GAS MUTANT AND HOUND WAVES 🗣️

[tropic notch]

It needs waves of tox bombers

[faint beacon]

and poxbursters

and then its perfect

[tame lodge]

Wrath

When

Sunder

Is

Right

There

https://tenor.com/view/dog-walk-away-weirdo-touch-gif-26494423

😭

[quiet valley]

Unpowered attacks ig

[tame lodge]

Attacking with a pool noodle

[tropic notch]

I still use bm and pc

[quiet valley]

Haven’t tried it, @narrow frost explain pls

[alpine flame]

anyone feel like the power sword does really little damage when not powered up?

[tropic notch]

It’s alright but nothing life changing

[warm schooner]

just swing harder

[alpine flame]

yeah, my roll might just be a little shitty

[tropic notch]

It’s 80 in everything but cleave targets with flak + maniac and brutal momentum + power cycler

[orchid hemlock]

🤯

[alpine flame]

i was just saying it felt like it was doing too little but idk might just be my roll like i said

[faint beacon]

had someone leave when they agroed DH so it went after me

killed me

and now im forced to watch a Speedrunner

[quiet valley]

Psychopath behavior

[hollow ibex]

i thought they fixed that

had it happen to me before the DH changes too

reported them, doubt fatshart gave a shit

[quiet valley]

They changed it so DH can see Stealth

[hollow ibex]

they also made changes to DH behavior more recently to address leavers

but idr what the changes were

[spark cipher]

oh so infiltrate does nothing for them?

[quiet valley]

They can still see you

[hollow ibex]

it was changed a while back because of griefers

[narrow frost]

just 20% doesnt seem like that much and I dont use heavy attack

was trying it out

[quiet valley]

No BM? Bad cleave distribution or?

[narrow frost]

haven't tried it in havoc yet

[quiet valley]

Sunder is a MkIII pick for me

[tall torrent]

It’s a decent amount of damage

[narrow frost]

I only use PA and lights

mk6

[tall torrent]

With sunder it can 1 hit mutant without maniac perk in base game

[narrow frost]

will try BM next instead of wrath

[tall torrent]

BM is the way tho

Sunder for mk3 is pretty legit
Except mk3 is still nowhere as good as mk6

[tame lodge]

You do know that Sunder reduces mass by 75% right?

Was it 75%?

[narrow frost]

I did not

[tame lodge]

Yeah 75%

[tall torrent]

Sunder is x0.25 mass

So effectively x4 cleave

[tame lodge]

Get Fatshark'd

Lmao

[plain osprey]

I kinda fell out of love with the power sword. My go to is usually dueling sword, when i grow bored i visit nostalgia lane and use catachan devils claw or the combat axes

[tame lodge]

So yeah
Wrath still taking Ls

[quiet valley]

@tall torrent have you done any testing for Hotshot cleave on different melee weapons for H40?

Trying desperately to escape Vet melee meta atm

[tame lodge]

It should be simple

Take enemy mass on havoc

Reduce by 80%

Multiply until meets weapon cleave

[quiet valley]

I’m not familiar with the exact mass numbers for H40, just wanted to see if there were any outliers with that extra cleave

[faint beacon]

pretty positive Veteran is the only class that suffers on havoc from "you will use one melee and you will be happy"

Cause everytime I've had that conversation with path it's boiled down to

Just use power sword

trust me I want to use something other than PS

[quiet valley]

Let me cope, surely 80% hitmass reduction would make something usable haha

[faint beacon]

Dead serious I might just fucking play Ogryn my second main for Havoc till veteran gets something new or a tree rework

or even in the rare case scenario

the other weapons actually get tuned

[quiet valley]

It’s tough for vet atm, but damn it’s satisfying to play

I been on the Helbore Exec grind as of late

[faint beacon]

Honestly with how ungodly restrictive it feels

completely kills it for me specifically for havoc

AuMael I enjoy playing Veteran all the time regardless of build

[quiet valley]

True

[spark cipher]

Surely shovel is havoc viable

[faint beacon]

I mean it "is"

in huge fucking air quotes

and that is if you only run Hotshot

but it BARELY surpasses

[quiet valley]

It’s fine, but only on hybrid, you can’t true melee it

Too much armor

[faint beacon]

cause your Helbore is the boss killer

[quiet valley]

Ok but Helbore chunks bosses tho

At least the IV does

[faint beacon]

Its just incredibly Sluggish

Havoc is very high intense, it does its job but for some people thats a genuine break

for them

[spark cipher]

hotshot affects your melee or?

[faint beacon]

its not supposed to but yes

its passive 24/7

as long as you hit heads with melee you have increased cleave

[spark cipher]

So everything that isn't power sword is held together by fatshart jank?

[narrow frost]

at end event of comms plex gale

[pseudo fiber]

It's not really jank it's working as intended the buff is just set as constantly on.

They don't seem to want to fix it so a cool perk

[quiet valley]

If they ‘fix’ it would be hilarious

They already ‘fixed’ the Helbore melee attack speed

[faint beacon]

if they fix it I would weep

but I understand

[quiet valley]

The Helbore, with it’s horrendous pickrate

Surely it’s too powerful

[faint beacon]

Lethal prox still hasn't been fixed either

Fun Fact: A mass gaslighting of Zealot Chat went for over what

4 months

till Ainz made sure to test it that Crusher Special was still effected by Lethal Prox

they thought it was fixed only for Zealot and they got very upset

LMAO

Hell I even tested to make sure it worked on Overload?

on relic blade

yeah it works admittedly to pathetic results

4m -> 6m blast radius

[quiet valley]

XD

[tropic notch]

4th tree rework

Anyone remember the 100 gold toughnesses Voc

That lasted for about a week or something

[tame lodge]

Not only the blessing affects your melee
It also has the inverted value table
So a Hotshot 1 is providing way more reduction than hotshot 4

Fatshark really just threw the blessing there without checking

[spark cipher]

so you only need hotshot one?

[tame lodge]

Yeah
T1 is a 80% reduction

T4 is 50% reduction

💀

Fatshark moment

[tall torrent]

if u can somehow weakspot hit every single enemy in swing pattern, consider hotshot 1 to be x5 cleave

granted, I don't think cleave is that important after a certain point

[hollow ibex]

still doesn't save shovel

[tall torrent]

like, after 25 it's usually far more common to have ur cleave ended by a high mass elite

I don't think building for extremely high cleave is all that worth

and none of vet's melee do heavy stagger vs elites

so power sword VI 24/7 it is

[quiet valley]

[tall torrent]

yea just gotta cope

maybe power axe will be available to veteran and be good

[sharp epoch]

nah its gonna be all class fs

[tall torrent]

it's prob veteran/zealot

not for psyker and ogryn

[faint beacon]

@narrow frost Whats the results looking like

[narrow frost]

I could upload that

[faint beacon]

Up to you I think it went pretty well lmao

Mandatory Tactical Axe propaganda

[narrow frost]

the tail jumpscare was funny

after midevent

BoN poking its tail at us

[faint beacon]

Thats all I ask if it is being uploaded, that it be called Something along the lines of Tac Axe Propaganda

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/kj8uoxwhp-mgyxXXo?invite=cr-MSxWZXgsMTA3NDAxNTcz

@narrow frost

[uncut pebble]

Not to mention a bunch of cleave is only good if your damage distribution is also good.

[narrow frost]

Lmao

Map said byebye

[fading yarrow]

Are Full Bore/Man-Stopper and Slaughterer/Power Cycler okay alternatives?

[faint beacon]

Slaughterer + PC is not worth it in comparison to BM

[fading yarrow]

As opposed to Wrath and Flechette

[faint beacon]

BM lets you cleave infinitely through enemies if you hit their heads

especially in powered state, its a no brainer choice

thats only if it kills

[fading yarrow]

Gotcha

I already aim for heads with the Power Sword so idk why I didn't already have that on lol

[tall torrent]

No, just 3 times

[narrow frost]

@faint beacon

the thumbnail

[void dragon]

Demonhost powered Taxe

peak

[fading yarrow]

Currently dead and spectating. Just watched a teammate try crouch walking away from a Scab Flamer actively toasting him

Dang...

I've been a Focus Target Andy for too long

I'd forgotten how good WS feels with the right build

This shotgun action is slick

[hollow ibex]

WS is peak vet

[fading yarrow]

50/50 Vent Purge missions complete

Tomorrow, nine Lights Out missions

Never, 44 Pox Gas missions

[frank basin]

[keen ivy]

why does the marksman's focus keystone go counter to everything else in the game

[formal ice]

What are you talking about

[hollow ibex]

devs don't play their own game

[tame lodge]

First things first

It's not a stand still keystone

It's a hit heads keystone

Second things second

It doesn't synergize with a lot of weapons

Bummer

Now third things

[quiet valley]

Helbore IV propaganda

H40 Exec stance

[hollow ibex]

error 2014 all fucking night

[void dragon]

what even is those errors? i had a game where i was more time out of the mission trying to reconect due error 2001 than in the actual mission

[hollow ibex]

idk

i think it's the rumblergryn causing the servers to spazz up

yes, another rumblergryn

yes, he's taking all the ammo

i'm using fucking revolver exec stance

and i'm using a third of his ammo

[void dragon]

ogryn and "ammo self control" dont mix well sadly

but blaming them for the errors is crazy

lost and eaten grenades? sure

but the crashes dont discriminate between humies and ogryn

[hollow ibex]

nah ogryn definitely causes crashes

just see mortis trials

as for whether this specific issue is caused by rumblergryn, prob not

i'm mostly memeing

[vocal lagoon]

Which weapons don't follow the conventional dump stat of mobility/defense? From what I've been told you want to usually get weapons with a stat roll of 60 on mobility/defense but I'm wondering about the edge cases

Especially when some weapons don't have either of those stats

[hollow ibex]

plasma, ripper, purgatus and flamer

might be a few others

[faint beacon]

Power sword

[hollow ibex]

oh yeah lol, obvious one

[stoic thorn]

Psword isn't mobility dump?

[formal ice]

I think dump is cleaver

[narrow frost]

Cleave targets

[formal ice]

Its cleaver already sucks

Losing more won't matter

[umbral scaffold]

Block efficiency affects parry correct

[narrow frost]

Yes it does

[mighty copper]

Nah mobility is dump

[finite hawk]

well according to the Hammer of the Emprah guide it's cleave target

[thin minnow]

Why tf would u dump that

Yes I would love to run a bit faster and not double my dps

[loud belfry]

cleave probably doesnt change much with the sword powered on

[thin minnow]

Can veteran even use it

Oh no not force sword

[toxic crypt]

Sah! SAH!
Does this make me a good strong Ogryn, Sah?

[thin minnow]

Wrong chat sah

[toxic crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-mr-bean-gif-17773392142675904427

-# tries to quietly walk away

[tall torrent]

Cleave target

[vocal lagoon]

He's a little confused, but Big Man's got spirit.

[tall torrent]

u get 0.8 more cleave between 60% and 80% cleave target which results in no actual cleave difference in 95%+ situations

60% cleave target has 10.9 energized atk cleave

80% cleave target has 11.7 energized atk cleave

[thin minnow]

That can be the difference between cleaving into a specialist and killing it and not

[tall torrent]

it really is not lol

[thin minnow]

But it can

[tall torrent]

lowest mass specialist is 2 mass

it makes no actual difference

u can argue some extremely niche case

but in the vast vast majority, running 0.19m/s faster is better

this is also assuming no blessings in play that affect cleave

brutal momentum changes your effective cleave quite a bit if u get weakspot kill

sunder gives so much cleave it's difficult to run out

and those are the only 2 blessings worth considering for 2nd blessing slot

[mighty monolith]

What's the best build for the dueling sword

[unreal nova]

Uncanny + whatever. I use agile since I take it to havoc only and having inf dodges there is great.

[vernal ermine]

Only around 85 krak grenade kills left for the penance

[red robin]

You using bolt pistol with lethal proximity

Makes collecting elites in packs a bit more generous

25% explosion radius on krak fun

[vernal ermine]

Hold on...
Lethal proximity works for All grnades?
Damn i need to try this

Btw, does this work with othere clases as well?

[unreal nova]

Only frag and krak.

It goes from not hitting dog to lightly hitting dog if you throw at the eagle on the floor infront of it.

It might work on oggy if they get a Bistol, but no Zealot grenades work with it.

[vernal ermine]

Damn

But thanks for the info

[unreal nova]

Puncture works with Psyker's Assail and beeg sword warp slash, but requires weapon swapping.

I know too much due to uhhh... using it on krak a long time ago to get penances done.

It also becomes a dook frag in emergency horde clear. Will at least open a gap.

[bronze idol]

can someone post an ideal build for veteran? a friend just joined and is leveling a character... looking for a basic/generic build that can help him get used to the game and playstyle

[serene bough]

Most generic build template looks something like this imo

Still 5 points left to spend

[bronze idol]

thank you!

[finite hawk]

I'm more of a krak grenades user myself, but I suppose it depends on your weapons, and whether you need something to deal with armour better

[hollow ibex]

kraks kinda ass rn

they're usable, but for a generic starter build, frags are the default

it's interesting seeing how people in general are moving from CK to O4B too

about time

[sharp epoch]

It's more for the weapon swap speed I thought

[serene bough]

For me it's bc shredder kills.proc O4B

I like kraks but I hate how you kinda need tinkerer and extra nade talent to make them usable

[sharp epoch]

Yeahh plus the two grenade regen talents

you're spending like 6 points on nades alone

[hollow ibex]

yeah shredder + o4b is a classic

though o4b just alone is still pretty fucking good lol

[slow spade]

I find o4b just more consistently useful

as Confirmed Kill is usually in bursts rather than the consistent toughness you'd usually want when being molested by Nurgle

[tropic thorn]

all i want is to use those lmgs the gunners use

now that would be some proper karkin dakka yknow

"GOT A PRESENT FOR YA!"

[elder vessel]

what's 04b

[lusty ether]

out for blood

[elder vessel]

what it be what it do

[elder vessel]

sweet

[tropic notch]

Real

Kraks loose value the more you learn about the game

[hollow ibex]

Yeah I mean they can be used to remove an annoying high priority target or destroy bulwark phalanxes but they really aren’t in a good spot right now

[serene bough]

Ive recently brought kraks into higher havocs, they actually get more mileage due to the amount of boss spam

And yeah, fuck bulwarks

[tropic notch]

Tbh I just toss all my shredders and kill then all

[hollow ibex]

I can see them being more useful with specialized teams in high havoc

[serene bough]

Shredders definitely better, but if you got a flamer/purge staff zealot/psyker you can sacrifice some shredder spam for extra boss dps imo

[hollow ibex]

If psyker and ogryn got the horde clear down

[sharp epoch]

Yeah they're an easy boss heavy stagger tool, that's really the only usefulness it has. Shredder atleast has the utility of staggering plaugryns and cspawns and its hordeclear potential

[quiet valley]

Yeah sadly Captains/Twins are common in Havoc, and Kraks dont do shit to them

[plain osprey]

Where can i find that auric viable kinda funny half meme hellbore lasgun build again?

[quiet valley]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ef01385-1188-4318-a15d-91e8fa71cd21/h40-helbore-iv

This is what i've been running H40

[plain osprey]

Do any grenades have any inpact on bosses with personal refractor shields like the traitor Captains or twins? Especially while the shield is up?

[quiet valley]

Definitely not for everyone but its very good

[quiet valley]

Kraks don't stick on shields

[plain osprey]

Thanks alot 🤗

[quick zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-face-sadness-deep-gif-20097444

[plain osprey]

Play-Stile recommendations? Or can i play it like the heavy kantrael?

[quiet valley]

Its Exec stance so you are very squishy, you need to play around your teammates, try to have your gun out as much as possible

[hollow ibex]

very fucking carefully

[quiet valley]

Exec stance pulls your helbore out faster than swapping

[sharp epoch]

seems like it struggles with hordeclear

[quiet valley]

90% of Havoc runs with Ogryn/Purge/Flamer Zealot

its really not my job to clear trash horde

[hollow ibex]

well i hope he gets competent auric teammates who can horde clear for him

[quiet valley]

In H40 rn but after I can post generic Auric shout helbore

[hollow ibex]

build should be fine in auric if he just takes PS or something

[sharp epoch]

no he doesnt have the melee talents so it needs ds

[hollow ibex]

PS doesn't need any melee talents

in auric

[sharp epoch]

it feels really bad without trenchfighter tbh

[hollow ibex]

i think it's fine

i often run PS on shoot builds

[plain osprey]

Aight, build done. Imma test it out auric. Btw, just for shits and giggles, could you run the exact same Talent tree with the recon las?

[hollow ibex]

if i need carapace damage

[hollow ibex]

you could, but prob not a great idea

[thin minnow]

zealot max level, so

it is time to make a

female veteran

helbore is good right?

i wanna be a kriegsman

helbore and shovel, viable?

[hollow ibex]

you're gonna have a bad time if you're new to vet

[thin minnow]

a bad time with those weapons?

or a bad time in general?

i am sure i can figure it out, wont jump into higher difficulties fast

[hollow ibex]

shovel is mid, helbore can be good, but is hard to play well

[thin minnow]

what is the play style?

and how mid is the shovel exactly? like, actively detrimental to you kinda mid?

[quiet valley]

MK1 Shovel is great in Auric

[hollow ibex]

it's mid. not great, not terrible.

[quiet valley]

Kills everything, even armor in a pinch with Uncanny

[thin minnow]

i wanna go for a full krieg loadout

[thin minnow]

good enough

[hollow ibex]

even with a full melee setup, it's not exactly amazing

[hollow ibex]

it'll be fine in lower difficulties

helbore requires you to play carefully and stay out of melee as much as you can

[thin minnow]

anything is viable if you try hard enough.

[hollow ibex]

because your reaction times are going to be awful

[thin minnow]

well duh it is veteran

[void dragon]

Veteran in general doesn't do much to enhance melee combat, so if something is good can work but if something is lacking will struggle

[hollow ibex]

nah, melee is an important part of vet

[thin minnow]

thats zealots job smh

i will stay back and snipe

[hollow ibex]

just not so much on helbore anymore

[quick zinc]

whatchu mean there is an entire tree for it

right side

whatchu mean

[void dragon]

Even as a vet you WILL have to melee from time to time

[thin minnow]

helbore looks so cool i want it

[hollow ibex]

zealot can literally be 100% melee, vet's more of a hybrid

problem is

[void dragon]

Even using a full gunner recon setup it's hard to not melee

[hollow ibex]

helbore hates hybrid

[thin minnow]

i can at least try to make it work

hellbore unlocks pretty early on

and shovel is the default anyway

lots of room to practice

[hollow ibex]

it's worth trying, but it's not what i'd recommend as a first build

esp with early game vet

[thin minnow]

i will even try to make a build for it on my own

[hollow ibex]

early game vet is atrocious

run five meters and he's ready to pass out

[thin minnow]

early game vet i wont get out of the second difficulty for a while

[void dragon]

Yeah why it's stamina management is so bad? The class even has a TON of perk nodes to patch that dumb thing

[thin minnow]

isnt that everyone

[hollow ibex]

vet, the guy who's been fighting all his life, clearly had no time to do cardio 🤷

[hollow ibex]

nah vet has atrocious stamina economy for no fucking reason

[thin minnow]

to encourage sniping? idk

[void dragon]

Oddly a psyker stam regent is so quick you can regen some between dodges with the right setup later on

[thin minnow]

magic

[void dragon]

Veteran really struggle to keep it's stamina up when depleted (I think there is a plan to fuel it's range power with stamina but is not that well implemented)

[slow spade]

Vet is the guy that works heavy weapons (and somehow avoided artillery)

[slow spade]

One reason why I use Focus Target is that instant stam regen node lol

[thin minnow]

you would think a guardsman would be more fit than a homeless skinny ass preacher

[slow spade]

It pops off surprisingly often when you need it

[slow spade]

To be fair, I imagine the Zealot was anything less than "aggressive" with their preaching :p

[thin minnow]

god, my veteran will look so ugly early on

will farm some dockets with my zealot so i can buy an outfit from the commissary right off the bat

[void dragon]

I have use it with deathshot on a H laspistol for near infinite ammo on a tanky build, genuinely good for the stamina management AND for regen it for Psword push attacks

[slow spade]

Yeah similar idea for me as well

Lets me get some more deadshot value and I get to support allies?

Easy pick

[void dragon]

Have an entire collection of builds themed on support in many ways, from all out brawler to bolter gunner and grenadier

[thin minnow]

i like krieg and hellbore + shovel + krieg skin is the closest i can get to being one lmao

in any game

will it be unique? i doubt it

there are probably at least 50 people with the exact same loadout

[void dragon]

Just wish the other keystones were as good (seriously hate how poor the MMF is and how melee veteran is so effy

[slow spade]

Same, I've unironically been using Charismatic (+50% aura range) for maximum value from the support skills

[slow spade]

Yeah I was never really convinced weapon specialist vet was as good as people were saying

The only build I agreed was better than Focus Target was Rashad + Revolver

[hollow ibex]

WS vet is amazing 😠

it's peak vet rn tbh

[void dragon]

No is not, you are gaslighting others AND yourself, it's acceptable but not great

[hollow ibex]

it's very much how the class is designed to be played

[thin minnow]

what is the only good one?

[hollow ibex]

hybrid

center and right keystones are good

left is niche (i'm being generous)

[void dragon]

Focus target isn't the best, weapon specialist is fine due its bonuses, but melee veteran is kinda on a weird spot

At least imo

[thin minnow]

what does weapon specialist do?

[hollow ibex]

boosts melee attack speed, dodge for every ranged kill

for melee kills, boosts your ranged crit chance and attack speed

so in other words, you should swap between melee and ranged frequently

it's extremely powerful

because you can guarantee a crit on your ranged attacks for every 3 melee kills

i.e., you swing a rashad once, you have a guaranteed crit on your ranged weapon

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist is useful but in practice it's just fine

[tropic notch]

Everyone except psyker should be melee focused

Psyker is the only true ranged class

[hollow ibex]

on top of that, WS is literally the only other source of melee attack speed for vet

[slow spade]

Personally I consider WS and FT on the same tier

[hollow ibex]

besides trench fighter

[narrow frost]

just fine?

[slow spade]

Yeah

[narrow frost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kb_pMcubw

watch.....

[tropic notch]

Even then he can be melee

[narrow frost]

I do more damage then a purg psyker

[void dragon]

The issue I have with the genuinely powerful keystone is that melee veteran is not that great, depends on really strong weapons to do it's intended work

[hollow ibex]

melee vet is very powerful

[slow spade]

Tbh I was hoping for a grenade keystone

[tropic notch]

Weapons specialist is the best node on vet

[slow spade]

I still am

[hollow ibex]

problem is, your melee weapon selection is ass

[tropic notch]

[slow spade]

I'm still waiting on dual weapons

[tropic notch]

[thin minnow]

is there combat axe?

[tropic notch]

Power sword

Knife

[slow spade]

Like come on now, Vermintide is right there and dual weapons were peak fun

[tropic notch]

Ds

[thin minnow]

i like sci fi more

[tropic notch]

Combat axe

Heavy sword

[slow spade]

Dual weapons can be in sci fi lol

[tropic notch]

@hollow ibex why are you silly

[hollow ibex]

let's ignore the abomination that is DS

[tame lodge]

Rashad is better on Vet than Zealot

[hollow ibex]

in havoc, it's really just power sword

[tame lodge]

💀

[hollow ibex]

in auric, yeah you get more options

[tropic notch]

Ok true

And shovel

[hollow ibex]

but auric is one of those "run wtf you want" modes

[slow spade]

Just please don't spam smokes :c

[hollow ibex]

[slow spade]

Like I get it stops shooters but I want to see

[hollow ibex]

i don't see smoke spammers too often

maybe once every 30 matches

[slow spade]

I quickplay in auric and standard so I see a lot of "interesting" builds

[hollow ibex]

i mainly do QP too

[thin minnow]

i use rashad on zealot, modded it to be a shovel

[slow spade]

Ah then I just get bad "RNG" lol

[thin minnow]

but when there is a real shovel, i will at least try it

how is auric any different?

[slow spade]

I swear Fatshark waits until I queue as a zealot before dropping their spamming smoker

[tropic notch]

Light until success

[hollow ibex]

dw, i get assholes of different types, just not the lung cancer version specifically

[slow spade]

Lol tbh I like the quickplays more than team queues as it's usually more "hectic"

But I will complain

[hollow ibex]

same lol

on the one hand, it's fun because teammates are often ass

on the other hand, you really do encounter all types of assholes in QP

[void dragon]

I know I'm not that good, so when I have to be the one carrying I know I'm up for a clown ride

[thin minnow]

i hate people with mics on

[void dragon]

"let's see how many rejects I find to replace the ones dying on command"

[thin minnow]

i only play quickplay lol

[slow spade]

Oh those are the funny ones because you KNOW you got to lock in

[hollow ibex]

idc because i can hardly hear them for whatever reason

[void dragon]

Indeed

[hollow ibex]

it's always somebody mumbling into their temu mics w

[thin minnow]

best helbore mark?

[void dragon]

Barely hearable or ear breaking volume, no in between

[slow spade]

I wish there was a way to mute open mics. Sometimes I see someone using it to say "crusher patrol" and stuff which is neat

[thin minnow]

exactly

if i could hear them i wouldnt care

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/true-correct-dwight-schrute-rainn-wilson-right-gif-23822659

[slow spade]

Ikr Darktide voice chat is so fucked

[thin minnow]

but when it is just a fan noise, or someone mouth breathing, or just loud as shit talknig in the background, kill em

best helbore mark?

[calm shard]

Mk IV

[thin minnow]

first one, sick

dump stat?

[calm shard]

stability

[slow spade]

I like the funny big number so I use the helbore mk6 (I think)

The one that uses 4 ammo on spam shot

[thin minnow]

really?

[hollow ibex]

i would use 5/6 if they weren't so shit against carapace

[thin minnow]

that looks useful

isnt stopping power worse

[calm shard]

Mk IV is the hardest hitting one

(also the hardest hitting ranged weapon in the game)

[thin minnow]

does shovel synergize well with it?

[hollow ibex]

stopping power directly impacts damage

[hollow ibex]

laughs in revolver

[calm shard]

That affects your armor damage so no

[tame lodge]

laughs in innate rending on charged shots

[quiet valley]

Helbore IV is the hardest hitting weapon per shot

[hollow ibex]

what would win: a high-powered laser rifle designed to penetrate armor, or some pistol made out hive metal scrap

[tame lodge]

Mk4 IS the hardest hitting weapon in the game rn

[thin minnow]

guh

[tame lodge]

[thin minnow]

what are the blessings needed?

[tame lodge]

We love Mk4 in this household

[hollow ibex]

and tacaxes

and bleed knife

right?

[hollow ibex]

check hammer of the emperor guide in the pins. has everything you need (besides actual builds )

[slow spade]

Oh I'm stupid lol. Thanks c:

[calm shard]

I remember I used to run Mk IV Helbore in old havoc because it did so much damage on a headshot that it one shot through pus hardened skin lmao

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/not-you-seamus-gif-24731889

[slow spade]

The mk4 is a lot of fun

[tame lodge]

I do use taxe 2 though

It's the best one

[slow spade]

Precise lasguns are my favorite

[tame lodge]

(not biased)

Which is why I know

Taxes bad

[slow spade]

Change crit bonus from +20% -> +200%

Taxes now good

[narrow frost]

now?

when were they not

[slow spade]

When I said so

[tame lodge]

[narrow frost]

I said this while uploading a taxe video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Wq3SZoQKc

Gale and I do a bit of Taxe propaganda

[tame lodge]

I am immune to propaganda

[slow spade]

Reporting for false information

UwU

[faint beacon]

State mandated Taxe propaganda

[narrow frost]

now I wait for meow

for Evis propaganda

[tame lodge]

Start by removing the cap on Tactical Axe and then I'll stop saying that they are bad

They'll become

Hmmm

Hmmm

Hmmm

Mid

[void dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/marge-i-just-think-theyre-neat-the-simpsons-neat-potato-gif-8549864

Me using the Taxe on psyker

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-computer-mad-angry-gif-18413956748387057285

[tame lodge]

You can play We will rock you on Taxe 4

That's should be good right

[thin minnow]

best shovel mark?

[quiet valley]

mk1

[plain osprey]

Well, i tried the hellbore build i got recommend here.

I encounterd one big problem... People fucking kept running into my shots.... 😐

Especially that big ass melee Ogryn

[hollow ibex]

you can shoot through people at least

[quiet valley]

yep and exec stance gives you outlines

[slow spade]

Shots go past people now

So you can mag dump your friends

[tame lodge]

Helbore shots always went through teammates

3 cleave

[slow spade]

Yeah but it's easier to just say it does now

[thin minnow]

why is mk4 hellbore the best

[tame lodge]

Casual Helbore W, as always

[slow spade]

The less time you spend shooting the same guy, the better

And MK4 shoots the same guy the least

[hollow ibex]

hits the hardest, simple as

V and VI kinda struggle against carapace

[thin minnow]

Same damage lower rpm tho

[hollow ibex]

if i take a helbore, i need it to deal with carapce

[hollow ibex]

not the same damage

[thin minnow]

The damage stat looks the same

It shoots more ammo at once?

[slow spade]

It definitely hits way harder

With Shock Trooper, the increased ammo cost is basically a non-issue

Though Mutants still take a few shots to kill

[thin minnow]

What is shock trooper

Learning a new class over again sucks

[slow spade]

The Node in the bottom left tree that makes crits not consume ammo for las guns

[hollow ibex]

great on las guns in general, but very important for helbore

[tame lodge]

Pretty sure that damage stat there is not telling the full story

💀

Check the adms

[slow spade]

When you start chunking bosses for like 4k damage a hit, something is going on 😩

[thin minnow]

Shoots more bullets at once

Ammo economy must suck

[tame lodge]

Not with Shock Trooper

💀

[slow spade]

Helbore with shock trooper is one of the most ammo efficient guns in the game

[tame lodge]

Helbores are basically Ammo neutral/positive

[slow spade]

You can unironically finish a damnation without picking ammo up once

[tame lodge]

Another Helbore W, as always

[austere mica]

It’s quite literally infinite if you only fire with confirmed crits

[slow spade]

Indeed lol

[hollow ibex]

take survivalist and you'll take home more ammo than you started with

[thin minnow]

veteran made!

[balmy flume]

Welcome to the Vet club

[formal ice]

The worse class

[balmy flume]

Foolish of you to say this in the Vet channel XD

[formal ice]

But its the worse class

Duh

[thin minnow]

Okay to have both classes smh

[formal ice]

[hollow ibex]

top 4 class*

[formal ice]

Top 4 class in reverse

[pseudo fiber]

It's pretty common sentiment here lol

but it's not too bad

so we chillin

[austere mica]

Just requires more effort

[calm shard]

comically absurd damage

[hollow ibex]

right... that's why i take helbore, for the stagger

[faint beacon]

It’s more like Vet is the weakest solely from power creep that’s why lmao

[tame lodge]

Another 20 buffs to Psyker

🗣️

[thin minnow]

Holy shit

This first veteran run

Was so ass

Lasgun is disgusting lmao

And this woman is SLUGGISH

After dashing around sliding running screaming like a gremlin as zealot, I felt so uncomfortable

How cooled am I

Cooked

[hollow ibex]

lol

welcome to vet in 2025

[lusty ether]

do you mean as like a level 1 vet?

[faint beacon]

Welcome to veteran

[thin minnow]

Yeah lol

First run

This is so ass after zealot lmao

[lusty ether]

literally doesn't matter

[thin minnow]

I will not get used to this

[lusty ether]

level 1 means absolutely nothing, on any class

[thin minnow]

Literally the first ever run as a veteran

[thin minnow]

Uh huh whatever you say

[lusty ether]

?...

[sharp epoch]

level one ogryn's pretty strong

[lusty ether]

I feel like this shouldn't be controversial.

The guns at like sub 100 power usually don't play like max power guns.

The classes at level one have none of the options and synergies that they do at level 30.

[thin minnow]

Hmmm I wanna go leak grenade

[lusty ether]

This dynamic is basically true of any RPG.

[thin minnow]

...yeah?

[sharp epoch]

just get level 30 on every class before you drop them

[thin minnow]

So it DOES matter

It does mean shit

[lusty ether]

No?

Because it's not reflective of anything.

I don't get what's confusing about this, so I'm gonna leave it.

[thin minnow]

Being stuck with the weak blitz, ability, aura, none of the stat boosts

Won't be as fun as having all of them.

[lusty ether]

That's just 'being level 1', it's literally a tiny blip of the gameplay.

[thin minnow]

Because it is wrong?

Such a stupid thing to say

[lusty ether]

99% of the game is being level 30

[thin minnow]

Yeah, and I said the first run as a veteran felt terrible, that's it

I was stating something that happened

[faint beacon]

Oh no dead serious Veteran and Psyker are probably the 2 notoriously difficult at low level classes

[thin minnow]

I didn't say veteran is shit

I am aware it will get better later

I am going for Krak grenade

[spark cipher]

oggy becomes effectively immortal by level 3

[faint beacon]

Mainly cause you don’t get their good shit till midway or at the end

[thin minnow]

What is the best aura?

Movement speed one sounds nice cuz this mf is SLOW

[sharp epoch]

also other classes base stats are actually not shit

[lusty ether]

And i am telling you why it's an incredibly fleeting thing that's not reflective of wider balance and enjoyment.

[thin minnow]

I am aware

No one said otherwise

[austere mica]

Survivalist

Infinite ammo

[lusty ether]

Then why the fuck are you arguing nonsense about things I also didn't say?

[sharp epoch]

not infinite 😭

[thin minnow]

"level 1 means nothing" comes off as "the fact that you are level 1 makes absolutely 0 difference"

[austere mica]

They nerfed it and its still best

[austere mica]

Close enough

[thin minnow]

True

[lusty ether]

I'm not telling you how to feel.

[sharp epoch]

im over here grabbing 25 light ammo tins and 10 large packs with surv

[lusty ether]

I'm saying that it's an incredibly fleeting dynamic that you shouldn't be using to base your opinions on.

because it lasts a very short amount of time

[spark cipher]

Gluttonous beast

[thin minnow]

I DIDNT BASE ANY OPINIONS YOU IDIOT I STATED A FACT THAT HAPPENED, IN ONE MISSION, NOTHING MORE

[vocal lagoon]

Oh so I wasn't crazy in thinking leveling vet felt way harder than any of the other classes, i thought it might've just been because vet was my first class to level and was still learning

[sharp epoch]

shh shh its worth feed the vet

[lusty ether]

You seem angry for the sake of it, tbh.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spark cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-animals-fluffy-stuck-door-cat-gif-10909132

[vocal lagoon]

They probably picked Cadian

[thin minnow]

You shove words in my mouth, act like I said something I didn't, shit on me, then say I am mad

Are you dumb?

[lusty ether]

I must be.

[thin minnow]

Looks like it

[sharp epoch]

nah vet has the worse base stats and good talents are unlocked later

[lusty ether]

Again, I haven't said you said anything...

[thin minnow]

Damn voice of command is literally inspire from payday 2

[lusty ether]

Show me where I am putting words in your mouth.

[spark cipher]

inspire but shit 🔥

[thin minnow]

"don't base your opinions on level 1 you have literally nothing" as if I said veteran sucks from one match

[lusty ether]

I didn't say that.

[vocal lagoon]

Only if you take a separate perk underneath it

[lusty ether]

I said you shouldn't, not that you did.

[thin minnow]

Okay yeah you are a fucking troll

[vocal lagoon]

Then yes it will let you revive downed people with your shout

[thin minnow]

I am done with you bye

[thin minnow]

Why wouldn't you tho

[lusty ether]

Literally the one point I wanted to get across was that level 1 balance isn't indicative of anything going forward.

That's apparently trolling.

[thin minnow]

Learn to think twice before you talk

Everything you said came off like an asshole

[lusty ether]

You're the one calling people dumb, and other insults.

[vocal lagoon]

I don't know a lot of people that take it, in most situations you use shout specifically to prevent downs, and in scenarios someone goes down, usually a shout and pick up are enough (add a grenade in for good measure, maybe)

VoC is also CD based unlike Inspire

[spark cipher]

*inspire has a 20 second cooldown between uses

[thin minnow]

"level 1 means nothing, no need base your opinions on one run" comes off like level 1 means literally nothing, it makes no difference, it is same as level 30

Express yourself better.

[thin minnow]

It still doubles the revive speed tho lol

[lusty ether]

Self awareness 0/100.

[vocal lagoon]

Oh yeah it did have a CD. I'm not sure of the range on VoC revive though because I know it makes the range 33% smaller

[thin minnow]

Oh I am 100% aware, you just have no idea what things you say look like to someone else

[spark cipher]

6m

[thin minnow]

Range of what tho

[spark cipher]

inspire is 8 meters

[lusty ether]

Could you hurry up and start ignoring me, because I'm a troll?

[thin minnow]

What range does VoC have?

[spark cipher]

or maybe 10 i forgor

[vocal lagoon]

Oh no I know it's 6m but I'm ignorant of exact measurements in metric

Like I don't have a mental picture of the range

[lusty ether]

Isn't VoC coherency range, by default?

Not sure if I'm making that up.

[hollow ibex]

it's gonna be bad until you get to like level 16

unlock voc, and grenade regen

vet's tree is really out of date

[thin minnow]

Grenade Regen?

[vocal lagoon]

get a grenade every 60s

[thin minnow]

I will go back to my zealot for a bit and continue the penance

[hollow ibex]

demo stockpile

[thin minnow]

What does it come with

[vocal lagoon]

that's it, you get 60s guaranteed grenade regen

[hollow ibex]

it's right above voc

"ah yes, let's put a bunch of mandatory talents only in the center of the tree, and near the bottom half"

[vocal lagoon]

Some of the early talents really are just "take these until you get further down into the tree and then dump them because they're outclassed in every way" like why would you ever take something like Confirmed Kill when you could take On Your Toes if you want toughness regen

[calm shard]

same

[spark cipher]

What's the dumpstat of helbore anyways?

[calm shard]

bolter exe stance do be ammo hungry

[calm shard]

stability

(your ability to stab)

[vocal lagoon]

[spark cipher]

So the recoil and stuff doesn't matter given the firerate?

[calm shard]

confirmed kill stacks btw

[tame lodge]

Helbore is so stable
So stable
It spawn horses

[vocal lagoon]

yeah but having 20% toughness regen every 3s should already be plenty, might as well spec the extra talent into preventing taking damage to begin with

[tame lodge]

It's also suppression immune - adjacent

(not actually immune. Minimum sway)

[tropic halo]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-fast-sped-up-gif-14118322218505913859

[formal ice]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-cavalo-spin-meme-flip-gif-17331191

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-you-have-alerted-the-horse-alert-alert-horse-horse-alert-gif-10675569724654458517

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/honse-away-go-gif-21374022

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/honse-honse-away-honse-return-horse-away-horse-return-gif-23822840

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/honse-1st-delaware-war-of-rights-1st-de-gif-18969268

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-funny-reaction-meme-stan-twt-horse-gif-5445268815333743861