veteran-class

[calm shard]

and everything else should be shit

so that you have to gamble for the good ones

[woven cove]

Well, rework it.

Or buff or whatever.

Make it new.

[native ocean]

That's the system that got changed with unlocked and loaded update, right?

[calm shard]

yeh

[native ocean]

Bless, that's like the main thing that made me not want to buy darktide before

It was the #1 complaint of all my friends that were tiding since release

[calm shard]

hey same

[red robin]

True

[winged pond]

Hey so I'm looking to branch out on my veteran weapons-wise while sticking to a similar play style and build. I run a sergeant/grenades build, spam ping enemies for free damage. My weapons I run are plasma gun and power sword. What other veteran weapons are similar to those two?

[red robin]

Game felt so different before

I felt like I was in an abusive relationship

“He could change…”

“I won’t leave him because he has his moments”

[calm shard]

similar guns to plasma would be revolver, and bolt pistol

fast draw specialist/elite removers

power sword is kinda its own thing and I don't really think any vet weapon is similar to it

[winged pond]

I haven't played bolt pistol yet, is it accurate at long ranges?

[red robin]

Yeah

[hollow ibex]

Yes

[red robin]

Recoil is annoying

But run and gun makes it super accurate

30% less spread all times

So no point using ads and just hipfire away until they’re dead

[hollow ibex]

But lethal prox and puncture

[red robin]

^

[formal ice]

Any gun is

[calm shard]

lethal proximity is so nice on veteran

[red robin]

Braced auto gun be like

[calm shard]

makes your shredders humongous

also very good emergency crowd control

[formal ice]

Whats about it?

[red robin]

Idk I can’t aim from afar with it

[formal ice]

LMAO

Just joking

[red robin]

A man can dream

[formal ice]

Try crouching down

And aim

[winged pond]

I like the plasma because A: I only gotta reload every 5 min or so, and B: I can dome any reasonably heavy enemy across the map in one quick shot super easily

[red robin]

I wish it had run n gun

30% spread reduction with braced weapons can only be experienced with the Agrippna revolver

[hollow ibex]

Expect to spend half the game reloading with bistol

[red robin]

also

i wish combat shotguns got buffed

love the slug round

[winged pond]

Yeah not fo' me. Might try revolver because IIRC that's a shotgun-style reload innit?

Like if I only shoot one round it's just a quick reload as opposed to if I shot 5?

[red robin]

there's 2, zarona is loading 1 by 1, agrippna has speed loader

so 4 in cylinder, 1 reload at a time so yeah you can fire 1 and put it to 5

or weapon specialist and always prepared

love hot swap builds

[winged pond]

Honestly I'm just afraid those guns won't be able to match the plasma cuz like I imagine to match DPS I gotta get consistent headshots

[calm shard]

exe stance gameplay makes me feel things

[tall torrent]

Revolver doesn’t have as much headshot reliance as plasma

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664591642967408640/1320852161265143878/axe.mp4?ex=68108f2f&is=680f3daf&hm=95a61e83775ec0b0fb7a42cf81878eb7fcc2f1acfb79183a9f634a2cc4505d72&

[calm shard]

revolver just teleporting into your hands is very satisfying to watch

somehow the lack of animation makes it feel better

real quickdraw shit

[native ocean]

When the draw is quick

[cyan ember]

can someone explain to me the 71/69 split on plasma. I just tried a 60 charge rate plasma in the psykhanium and a 71 charge rate split in the psykhanium with uncharged shots and it made no difference to the damage.

Is it for charge shots only?

[hollow ibex]

#veteran-class message

[cyan ember]

thanks. What is list damage in the pinned excel sheet screenshot?

[calm shard]

charge rate affects the delay between pressing left click and the shot happening

not the damage

[cyan ember]

Thanks, I was thinking that perhaps uncharged shots were actually slightly charged and that therefore charge rate in increase slight charge.

[bold sierra]

so I found out that shock maul MkIa got some pretty funky and neat effects with its push attack + overhead light combo, it has a lot of stagger force and it also leaves the crusher just...stunned and confused for a few seconds

is this known knowledge, and I'm not sure if u need hammerblow or sth for thsi to be effective, cuz I got hamemrblow

[calm shard]

that's really weird

[bold sierra]

i'm testing this in Havoc 40 true solo sandbox

[calm shard]

normally crushers aren't locked into the full stun animation like that

[narrow frost]

Careful testing things in offline mode, some things do act differently

but I have not seen this before

[bold sierra]

even in simulacrum it's the same

[narrow frost]

same thing

[calm shard]

it seems like their ability to cancel animations early is being disabled for some reason

[narrow frost]

meat grinder and solo mod are offline

[bold sierra]

and I think I've able to do the same in H40 match

[narrow frost]

Interesting

[calm shard]

cause they normally cancel out of the "light" stagger animations like that pretty quick

but in that clip they're just stuck in it until they go back to idle which is ???

[bold sierra]

yeah

unsure if intended or not, but yeah xD

as far as I know, the other Mark of shock maul doesnt have this

cuz its push attack + followup isnt as stagger-y

yeah, without hammerblow, it's not able to stun Crusher like in the video, not enough stagger

[winged pond]

Yoo the quickdraw is that fast???

Do you need any perks or anything to do that or is that just base?

[hollow ibex]

Revolver is just really fast draw

Idk if path is running one motion in that clip

[calm shard]

revolver just does that

It has one of it not the fastest draw times of any weapon in the game

[tall torrent]

requires hammerblow

[tall torrent]

yea 0.2s draw-to-fire time

[bold sierra]

yeah definitely does require hammerblow

[pseudo fiber]

Seeing less zealots in the high havoc climb. I thought vets would fall off more but no

[raw needle]

all zealots are playing ogryn now

direct upgrade to their class

[pseudo fiber]

Good point

[hollow ibex]

Ehh

Well maybe in havoc ig

[sharp epoch]

book zealot is still really good, it just is less fun cause your spamming book and just sitting there

[faint beacon]

Vet is taken cause they offer two crucial supportive roles of Golden and Ammo

[tame lodge]

400% melee

Duelist talent but Oggy

Barge

Bullrush is similar to chastises "immortality"

Except you can actually topple Ogryns

Raaaaah

[tall torrent]

bullrush is better in every way

[tame lodge]

What the hell is even zealot about

🗣️

[tall torrent]

staggers as many ogryns as u want as long as u don't run into boss or wall

dodge status throughout so u can't be netted, pounced or grabbed

and ogryn innately pulls FotF zealot tier dps without having to use ult

[tame lodge]

Big w for oggys

[tall torrent]

ogryn melee dps prob needs to get nerfed

small reductions to most if not all melee dps talents across the board

15% -> 12% or 10% that kinda thing

[void dragon]

You believe it's the damage itself and not the fact that we now have so many attack speed buffs? Feels that we have been given a little too much with frenzy and the HH node

[tall torrent]

ogryn has one consistent atk speed buff from Heavy Hitter
the other 2 have some inconsistencies which is ok

maybe frenzied blows reduce from 2.5% to 2% per stack

but I think by far the bigger issue is every melee talent stacking up so high

soften them up prob needs to be lowered to 10%

payback time also prob 10%

beat them back maybe 12%

[void dragon]

Makes sense considering how easy to prock those are

[sharp epoch]

glugger builds dont even take that and can topscore if they got ammo

[tall torrent]

yea that's the caveat

PBB rumbler is insane yes

[tame lodge]

Gunlugger is finally real

[tall torrent]

but melee ogryn is almost fully resource agnostic and pulls dps barely under PBB rumbler

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/enough-to-make-a-grown-man-cry-gif-12572460963092080525

[tall torrent]

melee ogryn also doesn't tank everyone's framerate

[dreamy scaffold]

he just tanks everyone

bonk smash bonk

[sharp epoch]

all the dr talents ogryn has too are a little overtuned

[woven cove]

I have Ogryn who isn't even lvl 30 and I'm smacking hordes, maulers and crushers to death with light attack spam on heresy, with a shovel.

[sharp epoch]

hh gives 12% no hurting friends 15% pumped up 15% default nodes 15% strong man 10% focused fighter 20%, and not to mention ogryns default damage resist

[tall torrent]

heavy hitter's DR not worth

[sharp epoch]

why

[tall torrent]

u get only 14% ish better durability

it's just not very good

with that effort u might as well grab top row's ranged DR

that's where most of ogryns take dmg

u should have payback time anyway so it's the same 1 point cost

[sharp epoch]

its just free 12% tdr

especially if you're running weapons that build stacks quickly

[tall torrent]

yea it's not worth 1 point

ogryn innately already has cumulative x0.6 TDR

add NHF and it goes to 0.51

10% and 5% TDR nodes at top for another x0.85, so now x0.4335

[sharp epoch]

i mean nhf is like 15% tdr, hh adding 12% is fine

[tall torrent]

add HH TDR and u only go from x0.4335 to x0.3815

a whopping 5% difference

is that worth 1 point, idk

this also discounts bleed DR

if u have 2 bleeding enemies nearby (not uncommon), x0.4335 goes to x0.367

add HH TDR and it goes from x0.367 to x0.323

it's just mathematically a bad investment for 1 point

[sharp epoch]

I'll prob just swap it for more damage I guess

[tall torrent]

compared to CHMA which actually matters for applications where ogryn can rapidly lose toughness

far better DR talent than HH TDR

[sharp epoch]

I take all of those dr talents anyways

ogryn tree is really opposite of vet where you can just go down the tree with everything you "need" then have like 15 points left over

[tall torrent]

like, u can build this

CHMA is by far the best DR talent in top row

it applies best to when ogryn actually quickly loses toughness

[sharp epoch]

focused fighter is also decent

[hollow ibex]

Which one is that again

[tall torrent]

4th (from left to right)

[lusty ether]

I kinda like how even this video still makes it look like crap damage

[sharp epoch]

cant hit me again

[tall torrent]

20% ranged DR for 2.5s after being hit by a ranged attack
4s internal cooldown

so 1.5s downtime for when u actually get shot

which is the most common way for ogryn to lose a lot of toughness quickly

[hollow ibex]

Hmm I thought ogrynomicon didn’t rate that one super highly

Idr

[sharp epoch]

they wrong

[hollow ibex]

True

[sharp epoch]

as always 😎

[faint beacon]

Gunners and Shooters are like the normal counter to Ogryn

So that’s why

[grand perch]

thought a reaper had teleported behind me but he just kept to the dark like solid fucking snake
shredded me in a hot second, see if you can spot him

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that’s why i was interested in that talent

[tall torrent]

the only downside of CHMA is that u have to spend 1 extra point to path to bull rush

but if u take taunt which is arguably just as good as bull rush now, u don't pay that point tax

[sharp epoch]

the non talent nodes on ogryn are actually good though 15% toughness and 5% dr is fine

[hollow ibex]

Taunchads

[tall torrent]

15 toughness is better than 5% TDR

so taunt has that extra leg up vs bull rush

even though bull rush is like, prob the best offensive ult in the game

[bold sierra]

I mean dmg is pretty good for most enemies aside from crushers, which is why I got bolter for that. I do use shock maul mostly on zealot tho (and yes, in H40 too) so cant say how good it really is for vets

plus, 300-400 a light attack hit on crusher is decently respectable

[lusty ether]

you'd think an electric flanged/spiked mace would do more than decent on carapace

[void dragon]

You would expect it to stagger some more, I think is the most ideal to have good stagger behind it's swings to fight even ragers but that's not the case

[woven cove]

Man, the braced autoguns deal so little damage compared to infantry autoguns.

I can perfectly shoot heads with a laser line of bullets with an infantry autogun, but with braced autogun the damage just isn't there.

[hollow ibex]

Graia is pretty good

Headshots are much less important

[tame lodge]

The duality of DT guns
Damage no ammo
Ammo no damage

[faint beacon]

Red pill or blue pill

[cyan ember]

hammerblow and falter will knock a rager right out of its combo on either mace with a heavy.

I think shock maul is fun on vet. It just isn't meta. Fairly safe horde clear though.

[signal cypress]

Which way western man

[bold sierra]

definitely more viable on zealot for sure

[cyan ember]

I would rather just use the crusher on zealot

[bold sierra]

I mean, tbh, yeah me too

it'd be cool if they build the shock part of the melee into the weapon more innately

shock maul does have better dps and mobility tho I'll say that, if we're talking light-spamming

[cyan ember]

should have significantly worse dps than the proper rotations on crusher. Horde is L-> heavy. Single target is the oppisite. Mix in push attacks with either combo. Crusher is high finesse, so scales well. I haven't actually measured it, but I would be surprised if shock maul had higher dps than crusher.

shock maul probably has better dodge distance, but movespeed should be the same.

[bold sierra]

yeah combos are also something to consider ofc, Shock maul also got like 4 effective dodges while crusher only got 3, so that's nice. Plus apparently staggering enemies with Shock Maul makes enemies just COMPLETELY out of it for like a couple of seconds so I've been really liking that. Dps-wise, if you're doing the correct combos, DPS seems to be somewhat the same, as far as I've tested (against H40 crusher), but CC-wise crusher definitely wins out

if u dunno, this is what I meant but "COMPLETELY out of it for like a couple of seconds", it aint the same as other melees I'll tell u that

[spark cipher]

Does lightning reflexes disrupt their combos?

[tame lodge]

It should stun yeah

But due to cool down on the blessing

It's not really safe against multiple ragers

[spark cipher]

damn I thought that only applied to the strength buff

come to think of it why are the 2 blessings revolving around timing blocks also among the few blessings with cooldowns?

[faint beacon]

Cause it would be too powerful I guess even though it’s already situational

[spark cipher]

Just ignore that riposte lasts longer, gives a pretty substantial crit buff, can be refreshed, and uses far more generous dodge windows

[woven cove]

Special attack on shock maul also stuns everything except bosses, and doesn't have any stun immunity window.

[spark cipher]

I still love me shock maul

[woven cove]

Shock maul is alright.

[dreamy scaffold]

what blessing should i run with Deadly accurate on Bpistol?

[north coyote]

was serrated blade buffed from 1 bleed stack to 2 ?

Don't remember any notes about that

[woven cove]

Man, I can do more damage with a shredder autopistol than a braced autogun.

[dreamy scaffold]

i cant win

[spark cipher]

"New inventory" and it's just this

[dreamy scaffold]

yea thanks servitor

im gonna scrap ya now

i need devils claws damnit

[faint beacon]

Surgical but tbh you probably shouldn’t run DA

[dreamy scaffold]

not this toothpick

[dreamy scaffold]

oh? ill take advice

[woven cove]

I wonder if people genuinely like the duelling sword or if they use it just cause its meta.

Cause I only had like one good game with a duelling sword.

[faint beacon]

Run N Gun + Lethal Prox if you focus picking up shredders and Demo stockpile and team talents

Literally make the best grenadier class in the game

[dreamy scaffold]

is there a dif build

i dont really use grenades as often as i prob should

[faint beacon]

Where you snipe with Bolt Pistol?

I know it’s going to be Surgical + a Blessing but I know DA is generally not the absolute best taking

It’s an option but it’s clouded by other better picks

Oh I know

Puncture + Surgical

Idk why I struggled with thinking on that

[quiet valley]

wdym Surgical Deadly Accurate is great, just take Deadshot

[dreamy scaffold]

also what blessings should i run on devil since its actually a fun weapon

[quiet valley]

Shred/Rampage

[dreamy scaffold]

didnt know parry can just cheese crushers

oh also any specific perk

[uncut pebble]

Flak + maniac.

Oneshot ragers with parries.

[faint beacon]

Shred will help with DCs not so amazing Flak damage but it’s passable

[uncut pebble]

Aim higher when parrying scab ragers so you don't hit their bodies.

[faint beacon]

But yeah Shred Rampage

[dreamy scaffold]

is there a mark that surpasses the others?

[uncut pebble]

Four lights with mk4 won't kill a scab shooter btw, assuming no crits.

[faint beacon]

4/7

1 is the worse variant

[uncut pebble]

All headshots.

[dreamy scaffold]

so is 4/7 just personal preference

[faint beacon]

This is why you use Heavies Luigi

It’s a Devils Claw Luigi, you Didnt make it

[uncut pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/wolverine-jumpscare-deadpool-and-wolverine-wolverine-jumpscare-car-gif-15589033231483828784

[dreamy scaffold]

i see

ill run the 7

[uncut pebble]

7 opens with a sweeping heavy, 4 opens with a strikedown heavy.

The push attack on 7 is a stab, 4 is a downward slash.

[dreamy scaffold]

yes i decided 7 would fit my style more fluidly

[uncut pebble]

Those are the only real differences between the 2.

[sharp epoch]

@quiet valley I was running a recon lasgun version of the laspistol build it performed pretty well

[quiet valley]

Try Deadshot with Heavy Recon las its very good

Also im working on Skrimisher Build for H40 soon lol

[dreamy scaffold]

oh also for perks for Bpistol i run flak+something or other, forgot what

[faint beacon]

Duck and Dive + Stripped Down perhaps

I love that gimmicky blessing talent synergy

[sharp epoch]

Yup the heavy recon + deadshot + 3 stams

[spark cipher]

so stripped down is treated as dodging?

[faint beacon]

Yes

[uncut pebble]

Im being a plasmoid now because of you.

Time to make my lobbies suffer

[faint beacon]

You disgust me

[uncut pebble]

Plasma + dclaw feels so right.

[faint beacon]

Bolter + DC and I wouldn’t judge you severely

[sharp epoch]

I been running db with ps on h40s pretty nice

[ember olive]

If anybody wants to have a laugh:
I don't play Veteran much, compared to the other classes. But I'm penance farming so now I'm playing it again.
I have most of the veteran ones, only missing a few annoying ones.
Among them: Long bomb.
So I have been running frag bombs for a month now hoping to get it passively. I figured the penance was kind of buggy and didn't register enemy hits properly because I SWORE I hit more than 5 enemies with a single 'nade, multiple times.
...therein lies the issue, I read it WRONG, I thought it was supposed to be a riff on the "Sly Marbo once killed 5 orks with a single grenade, and then it exploded!" Joke.
SO I WAS ACTIVELY TRYING TO HIT GROUPS OF ENEMIES WITH FRAG GRENADES 😭 😭 😭 I thought "without it bouncing" meant no touching any floors or walls, not that it couldn't touch anything.
200 in-game hours and I still lack reading comprehension.

[sharp epoch]

It's not a riff on sly marbo, you just gotta air burst the grenades on enemies

[ember olive]

Well I realize that now; as I said.

But you have to admit it
Exactly five! Sure is a coincidence

[quiet valley]

no, grenades are affected by Skrimisher's dmg boost

thats the gimmick, im swapping like 1-2 talents not sure about em rn

[faint beacon]

I think the only issue one would have would be managing stamina seeing you’ll have to constantly sprint to make sure it’s at 5 stacks, though thankfully there’s a -.25 delay node on right side you could probably pick up to help with it

Technically could path down the Exec side also for the other -.25 but I think it’ll get too taxing at that point

[quiet valley]

sprinting a little refreshes all 4 stacks

you stam regen with Focus Target

[woven cove]

Just take the talent that gives stamina when dodging gunfire in any way and you will never have stamina issues so long as someone's shooting at you.

[hollow trail]

long bomb is painful i still haven’t gotten mine
damn pubs attracting hordes before the shredder draw animation finishes

sure i could wait and get it accidentally but i like being precise with my frags, also funny penance helmet

[slim pulsar]

man having 3 shouts in the zefoni trials is so good

i wish i could crash games like ogryns though

[hollow ibex]

You just gotta get it on certain maps

That’s it

[dreamy scaffold]

last time i got long bomb was unintentional luck

[sharp epoch]

you can just look at the throw indicator with frags the part where the white line fades out is where itll detonate

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s really bad

U need to sprint full 1s to stack

Slide before it hits 1s mark and it’ll cancel

It has basically no uptime in combat

They tried to fix it like 3 times by now and they still don’t understand what’s wrong with it

At this point they should just make skirmishes the slaughterer equivalent in talent

[hollow ibex]

sounds like the handling of the vet tree in general

[fading yarrow]

30/30 Auric Maelstrom missions complete

Now to spend the rest of my days doing 183 Auric Heresy missions

[austere mica]

Just play audamn at that point

[fading yarrow]

Why would I do that

[quiet valley]

It was pretty good in test runs so far

[fading yarrow]

Heresy is easier

[quiet valley]

H40, ignore the pskyer farming horde XD

its definitely a different way to play

[austere mica]

More rewards and better players

Also more spawns so more fun

[tall torrent]

How much is actually from skirmisher

[quiet valley]

Debating if I want to throw in H40 by not pathing thru Survivalist for more passives

Idk its Bolt Pistol, DSIV, I had stacks almost the entire match, standard nade BS

Also Competitive Urge lmao

[tall torrent]

Competitive urge is better than skirmisher unironically

At least it has uptime

Skirmisher is genuinely just bad

[quiet valley]

Yeah but its just SO much extra dmg from Skirmisher

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s still ass

[quiet valley]

Its BASE dmg which scales nades

[tall torrent]

U get it for 8s at the start of a fight and that’s it

[austere mica]

You should record an encounter and then watch your stacks

[quiet valley]

I did some drive bys with my DS and drop a nade and swing around again

[tall torrent]

It’s simply way too much effort to keep skirmisher up in normal gameplay

[quiet valley]

The boss dmg on Skirmisher felt pretty insane tho

[tall torrent]

They need to just rework it into slaughterer but talent

[austere mica]

Its also right next to fucking TFD

[tall torrent]

DS doesn’t need trench fighter

Wasted talent

[quiet valley]

^

[austere mica]

Better than skirmisher

[quiet valley]

Definitely not recommending Skrimisher to every vet but, if you can get it to work, its A LOT of dmg

[tall torrent]

It’s not worth going down to that row in the first place for DS lol

At best stop at desperado

[austere mica]

Fair but if you're down there for weapon spec or something one option is more than slightly superior

[quiet valley]

This is a war crime ik

[tall torrent]

Nah if DS had to go to WS I’d actually take skirmisher over TFD

TFD does almost nothing for DS

Skirmisher has horrendous uptime but at least works

[quiet valley]

You can refresh your Skirmisher Stack when charging a heavy while sprinting so its not that bad

[tall torrent]

It’s horrendous

U slide at 0.95s and it doesn’t stack

Peak design

They rly should just make it slaughter equivalent

Zealot has headtaker but talent
Psyker has ghost but talent
Ogryn has thrust but talent

Give veteran slaughterer but talent

[quiet valley]

Vet needs good toughness regen that what we need

[tall torrent]

Just fix catch a breath and make it available to all builds

Even the ones that don’t take survivalist

[quiet valley]

Vets need toughness regen that not on kill, Pskyers get quelling, Oggy has Braced and just hit literally anything in melee, Zealot has op dodge toughness

[faint beacon]

Closest we got is CAB and thats it

depressing

[quiet valley]

ikr, that 5% is nothing

[faint wedge]

Vets can regain toughness by yelling loud enough just like any other class

[void dragon]

Vet needs to gain toughness over time as long as he is headshooting something

Each class should regain it on their gimmick (psyker with peril management, ogryn in melee, zealot by being a slippery bastard and vet by being a gunner class)

[faint beacon]

I mean it helps only IF you run MMF with Tunnel Vision but that alone is like super situational

[sharp epoch]

should be from elites/specials cause thats his role or another thats shooters(?)

but they had to nerf confirmed kill

[void dragon]

I would still need to figure a way to reward slow-hard hitting weapons more than rapid fire ones

[uncut pebble]

That's the issue there, vet isn't a "gunner class."

Vet is a hybrid class.

[void dragon]

It should be first and most, melee can be part but they are supposed to be all about gunplay

[uncut pebble]

No they aren't lol.

[sharp epoch]

don't slow hardhitting weapons deal with elites/specials better typically?

[uncut pebble]

Psyker is more gun oriented than vet is.

[faint beacon]

Veteran is more Precision focused if I'll be blunt

if you can't click heads

you cant play veteran

[uncut pebble]

Vet is a breakpoint oriented priority target hunter.

[faint beacon]

This includes melee

[sharp epoch]

thats very wrong lol

[uncut pebble]

Whether you use your gun, your melee, or your grenades to achieve this is irrelevant. That's just the structure of the tree.

[sharp epoch]

recon lasgun builds barely rely on weakspot hits

db shotgun either

[faint beacon]

2 weapons

[uncut pebble]

Gale has over 1k levels on vet. Pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

[faint beacon]

everything else you need to focus hitting heads

[void dragon]

Not always, sure: plasma and bolter are one of the top options but stuff like the recon lasgun are solid for a reason

[faint beacon]

cause a lot of your talents reward you for hitting weakspots

[uncut pebble]

And considering there are talents that are weakspot oriented, plus crit scaling with things like reciprocity, you want to hit heads.

[faint beacon]

Added the fact we have a not so great keystone

[void dragon]

And that's an issue, veteran should gains so more from getting weakspots shots than any other

[faint beacon]

(MMF)

that rewards Precision

and its very good on Vigils

Same with FT its just more generous cause its a flat buff on damage

[void dragon]

Don't recall well but infant Agun is really good with MMF, issue is keep the buffs running

[faint beacon]

yes

IAG's benefit from finesse

[sharp epoch]

recon lasguns are like the second top build anyways its like 45% plasma 40% recon 15% other guns

[uncut pebble]

We can also just take a step back from vet and plainly state that you should always be aiming for heads regardless of your weapon choice.

[faint beacon]

so MMF is a genuine good pick

[faint beacon]

Plasma and Bolter you still want to click heads

[void dragon]

Yeah, sadly recon is so good because you don't get much more value from headshots compared to inferno + dumdum

[faint beacon]

Naturally its just Veteran is the definiton of Drought or Drown when it comes to having the skill to hit heads

[void dragon]

I don't think vet can self generate crits for himself like the other classes with gaze and the frenzy keystone, right?

[faint beacon]

Ogryn honestly is the only class That I can think of that can get away with not needing to aim for heads regarding their guns outside of Heavy stubber

[uncut pebble]

veteran players
look inside
only like 5% of vets are actually worth anything

[sharp epoch]

if theres a build thats perfectly viable without being cracked at hitting heads its not a necessary thing to be good at vet

[tall torrent]

Only if they hit crucial breakpoints

[uncut pebble]

Reciprocity exists.

[faint beacon]

and then like what Psyker just fucking exists

they dont really need to aim for heads

[void dragon]

That's more defensive one, but seems like the only one

[uncut pebble]

And there are many blessings that vet usually runs to get even more crit chance.

[quiet valley]

Pskyer purge bots XD

[tall torrent]

U can
With deadshot copium

[quiet valley]

Deadshot shits out crits

[faint beacon]

its insane how much damage they dish out without having the actual mechanical skill of hitting heads

it upsets me in a way

[void dragon]

I cry

[faint beacon]

but its whatever

[quiet valley]

Perilous combustion and infinite cleave = all the dmg ever

[hollow ibex]

purg smykers holding down 2 buttons and top fragging

[faint beacon]

@quiet valley Anyways did a Deadshot + MMF combo on Vigil and this results explain themselves though I'll admit the teammates we're a bit bordering on Sandbagging

I had to clutch 2 times in a row

[quiet valley]

Havoc or QP?

[tall torrent]

They should nerf inferno’s attack speed

[faint beacon]

QP Auric

Lights out

[quiet valley]

IX goes crazy

[uncut pebble]

Anywho, point here is, to say vet is a "gunner class" is wrong; it is a breakpoint oriented priority target hunter class that a lot of people mistake for a ranged class due to executioners stance existing. (executioners stance is also iffy because you don't really need the damage it brings for most breakpoints)

[quiet valley]

You should push H40 with it

[faint beacon]

Also yes it was the Agri IX

[hollow ibex]

i think i'm the only one that prefers Colum lol

[void dragon]

Make it generate less fire stacks per right attack unless it's fully charged

[faint beacon]

I should just ask Ainz LMAO

I'll do it sometime soon

see how it fairs

[tall torrent]

No just have it apply stacks slower

[quiet valley]

Autoguns are stinky

[tall torrent]

Nerf attack speed = apply stacks slower

Not complicated

[sharp epoch]

its semi viable on h40s, but you would need someone to deal with the bosses cause vet is trash at that

[tall torrent]

And/or make soulblaze tick rate slower

Currently it ticks once 0.75s

[uncut pebble]

Wrong again!

Vet is great at killing bosses.

[faint beacon]

Vet is not bad at killing bosses

[tall torrent]

Make it 1.25s+ or smth

[faint beacon]

Get yourself a taunt ogryn and Veteran is immediately eating good against BON's

Plogryn's are literally free boss damage

[void dragon]

Can we have the fire actually cook faster and stop on caparace but can even melt a crusher as a trade?

[faint beacon]

the only boss I can think of that Vet "struggles" with is the Chaos Spawn

[uncut pebble]

Yeah the only boss vet struggles with is burgle, but everyone struggles with burgle except bubble soyker.

[tall torrent]

Not sure how to code the “fire stopping on carapace” part

[faint beacon]

BON and CS imo but CS is more dependent on Knowledge and extreme stamina and dodge management

[quiet valley]

wdym just shout at CS lmao

[uncut pebble]

Well, vet has tools to stagger it and get it off him.

[faint beacon]

Stamina delay of 1s got me fucked up

[quiet valley]

then shoot it in the face

[uncut pebble]

Voc, grenades, barrels (I think?)

[void dragon]

Fire hit caparace = banish projectiles (I know would be harder but that in exchange to make crusher stew with a focused fire would be cool imo

[faint beacon]

Im more so thinking outside of stun lock the fucker in a corner with shout lmao

mainly cause im playing Estance more

[uncut pebble]

Yeah you still have grenades.

Drop a shredder at your feet, pop exe stance, blast it in the face.

[quiet valley]

Oh I just block/dodge until he goes for the grab

But also im 9 stamina gaming

[faint beacon]

Same shit I do, It just feels like an eternity at times especially when your teammates do not notice

[tall torrent]

I’ll be honest
I don’t think DoT and most ranged options should be good vs carapace

[faint beacon]

I tend to do 1 of every type minus Wound or 2 Toughness 1 Stam

[void dragon]

Honestly would be ok with it, specially since I see infernus as an anti horde weapon first and most

[quiet valley]

Infernus is Boss killer what

[void dragon]

We have FS and FGS as can openers

[faint beacon]

Infernus fucking deletes bosses

same with like fuck Uncanny Lac knife if you're using that

[narrow frost]

doesn't burn have a high unyielding damage?

[uncut pebble]

Yeah using infernus on a horde is a huge waste of ammo.

[void dragon]

Just saying what I feel should be it's most important role, it should not be great Vs caparace enemies in general

[quiet valley]

shooting at horde is a waste of ammo

[void dragon]

Excuse me what's ammo?

[uncut pebble]

It's that thing you put into your gun to shoot heretics.

Hope this helps.

[faint beacon]

Thing that is used to kill enemies with guns or higher grade enemies

[void dragon]

Oh, sorry, was talking of my cool staff that lacks such skill issue

[cyan ember]

That isnt infernus though. That is inferno

[faint beacon]

Soulblaze

its Soulblaze

[tall torrent]

(Not quite)

[uncut pebble]

Communication errors are funny.

Infernus is a blessing on las weaponry. Inferno is the staff.

[void dragon]

Mistakes in language bring us closer to the ogryn path

[uncut pebble]

This is why we still call the staff "purg" instead of obese fish's dumb rename.

[faint beacon]

The DOT Charts

[tall torrent]

Infernus stops at 12th dot

[faint beacon]

around 180ish iirc

[void dragon]

So a zealot flamer and a psyker soulfire can super cook that BoN

[tall torrent]

It’s like 140 smth with 1.25 unyielding ADM

So yea around 180 ish per tick

[faint beacon]

shit im thinking without armor

[tall torrent]

It’s nowhere as good as people think it is

[faint beacon]

its- there

it exists

[tall torrent]

In the best case scenario it’s around 30% better unyielding dps for a gun that has low innate unyielding ADM

[quiet valley]

Idk i get like 400ish ticks on bosses

[faint beacon]

its extra damage

[void dragon]

So while it helps you still should swap to your FGS to kill that boss?

[tall torrent]

Buff stacking

[tall torrent]

FGS is like

Mid tier at best

For boss

lol

[faint beacon]

Purg users spamming on a BON as it eats the Ogryn

I will never have that leave my mind

[void dragon]

But is better then to stay in staff and channel fire thrower?

[tall torrent]

Being good at killing bulwark is not equivalent of being good at killing boss

[faint beacon]

4.8K HP vs

[tall torrent]

I mean, u can test urself with creature spawner, no?

[faint beacon]

60ishK

[tall torrent]

A good example is power sword

Power sword is 2 hit bulwark

But power sword vs most bosses are not that fast

Sustain dps not as good as other top vet melee

[void dragon]

I wonder, will try it to see the difference between the two with DD stacks

So recon lasgun, plasma, bolter gun and pistol, is there something else considered meta in the veteran Armoury of guns?

[uncut pebble]

It's funny because a staff special at full charge on a burgle pimple will force it to cough up your teammate.

[uncut pebble]

Agri/vraks inf autogun.

Vraks has better dps but I find agri to have better ammo economy vs shooters.

[faint beacon]

Agri is- I wouldn't call it meta

but I would say its a decent choice

Vraks is meta though

outside of Havoc

[tall torrent]

What mode

[void dragon]

Iirc vraks damage at range becomes quite poor, would make sense to try agri, ty

[quiet valley]

LAS X

[void dragon]

Havoc

[tall torrent]

Plasma / recon / boltpistol
The rest are all experimental at best

[quiet valley]

LAS X RAHHH

[sharp epoch]

DB ive won a few h40s with

[void dragon]

Wait REALLY??!! Even on ranged guns the veteran repertory is THAT low?

[tall torrent]

What do I think I meant with vet being a top 4 class

[sharp epoch]

Bolt pistol sucks imo, bad breakpoints, its only use is the meme 25% explosion radius

[tall torrent]

It’s the same 2 shot kill like plasma vs flamer and gunner

But yes basically exists for lethal prox

[sharp epoch]

gunners you can get to 1 shot headshots

[void dragon]

That it's perk tree is garbo and near being the second zealot perk tree

[sharp epoch]

with plasma

[tall torrent]

With red nodes, not gonna entirely count on that

[tall torrent]

That’s only a part of it

[void dragon]

Now I see the full depth of the rabbit hole that is the grave of the veteran class

[sharp epoch]

Bolt pistol takes a lot more nodes to be useful like tinkerer, extra nade talent, and uhhh twinned blast (?)

[quiet valley]

Bolt pistol is great for H40

[quiet valley]

H40 Bolt Pistol

[tall torrent]

2 real choices for melee
3 real choices for ranged
Imperial tithe grade talent tree

[stuck gorge]

veteran should just replace infiltrate with a bandolier of grenades

even more grenades to use

Ez

[tall torrent]

Maybe power axe will be good and give veteran 3 actual melee choices

If that’s even available to veteran when it releases

[stuck gorge]

(It goes to psyker for some ungodly reason)

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s def not going to psyker

It’s based on imperial navy breacher axe

[void dragon]

I'm hoping that with the hinted zealot perk tree rework they will give it to them, after all, they have been crying for a 2h axe for a while

[quiet valley]

Where the next vet GUN?

whens the last time we got a gun for the GUN GUY

[uncut pebble]

Paxe is likely a vet/zeal exclusive.

[tall torrent]

June 2024

[uncut pebble]

Hoping its vet, vet needs some 2 handers.

[quiet valley]

its so jover

[stuck gorge]

uhhh here’s a new mark for the shredder pistol, it’s the exact same but the recoil is swapped horizontally

[void dragon]

Give veteran a passive that gives him extra crit chance on weakspots shots

[tall torrent]

Zealot players will be very upset if power axe is veteran exclusive

Which is ok because they’ll be upset no matter what

[void dragon]

Remove the "take cover" carp one

[uncut pebble]

I mean I'd be happy if both classes got it, but it'd be criminal to not give vet a 2h melee option.

[stuck gorge]

Why does veteran even have this one if they can still shoot you over the cover lmao

[uncut pebble]

Sounds easy, likely a nightmare to code.

[void dragon]

You think? I feel it would be ok if the veteran could actually embrace being an actual ranged focused class

[void dragon]

Impossible for ObeseFish standards

[uncut pebble]

Again, it isn't a ranged focus class.

Get that out of your head.

[quiet valley]

Where's my exec stance ranged toughness dmg reduction

[uncut pebble]

Thats psyker.

[void dragon]

NEVUR!

[quiet valley]

to shoot the SHOOTERS

[void dragon]

PSYKER is FAR more melee than veteran imo

[stuck gorge]

make vet ranged focused class and bring back self damage on quell for the witch

[uncut pebble]

There is one talent tree that is oriented around using melee for psyker.

The rest are all ranged.

Zealout has the opposite issue, being melee focused.

[loud belfry]

psyker gotta be the least melee class of all

[tall torrent]

They should replace executioner’s stance with a new ability where veteran calls in a deathstrike missile and instantly obliterates the entire map and the other 3 million infected people living adjacent to mission area

[uncut pebble]

Vet has a blend of builds because they aren't melee or ranged focused, they are a hybrid class.

[void dragon]

Veteran and psyker are the ranged combatants where ogryn and zealot are the melee ones

[uncut pebble]

Don't bring ogryns into this.

They are their own monsters.

[quiet valley]

Ogryns best ranged class

[stuck gorge]

ogryn is just stack 7 billion % stat increases

[void dragon]

The strike team also die as collateral

[quiet valley]

sorry not sorry

[tall torrent]

This is some peak copium

[quiet valley]

RUMBLERRR

[uncut pebble]

If you want to talk ogryn, you go to ogryn chat and talk to ogryns.

[stuck gorge]

minor inconvenience

[tall torrent]

That’s acceptable

[uncut pebble]

Rumbler in h40 is hilarious.

[loud belfry]

ogryn is possibly just the best class except if you consider psyker's sheer damage possibility as making it better

[void dragon]

Nah, it's just me being crazy and doing meleeker

[uncut pebble]

You can just spam the shit out of it with no regard to anything around you.

[stuck gorge]

but wait actually no

[void dragon]

My beloved said to do it

[stuck gorge]

Zealot uses until death to live

Then revived everyone else

Ex

no casualties

[uncut pebble]

This just in: zealouts can survive a deathstrike missile with until death.

[tall torrent]

Zealot chorus before deathstrike hits, gives everyone gold toughness to tank 1 hit without losing health

[stuck gorge]

With enough faith anything is possible

[void dragon]

Because the Emperor and miracles and stuff

[loud belfry]

gold toughness and until death can tank the entire world exploding

[stuck gorge]

Chorus also straight up just gives immortality when held out

No gold toughness needed

[uncut pebble]

It doesn't.

[void dragon]

Piss toughness>>>>nuke

[stuck gorge]

it doesn’t?

[tall torrent]

What

[stuck gorge]

So another fartshart lie

[narrow frost]

it doesnt

[uncut pebble]

Yeah chorus doesn't make you invulnerable.

[loud belfry]

it may seem that way because of how it works i guess

[uncut pebble]

It just gives you fat toughness regen for the duration.

[tall torrent]

No they straight up never said that lol

[uncut pebble]

I've watched a zeal go down in havoc because he chorus'd in front of a final toll rager.

That rager ate him alive.

[void dragon]

ObeseFish balance dev: Now I know how to fix zealot!

[stuck gorge]

Tf does the invulnerability mean then

[tall torrent]

Read it again

[uncut pebble]

Tbf that tooltip is misleading.

[void dragon]

What's the dif on stun immunity and stun invulnerability?

[uncut pebble]

If I didn't know better I'd say it's saying it grants invulnerability too.

[void dragon]

Yeah, it's super messy

[tall torrent]

Oh wait it actually isn’t

[tall torrent]

Invulnerability means player health can’t drop below 1

[void dragon]

Wait WHAT?!!!!

[tall torrent]

I’m not joking that’s actually how it’s coded

[stuck gorge]

so I WAS right???

[uncut pebble]

Oh so that means fatshark is just stupid and doesn't know what invulnerability means.

[stuck gorge]

Fartshart I still blame you

[tall torrent]

Well it doesn’t prevent u from taking damage

[void dragon]

MorbidlyobeseShrimp WHY?!!

[uncut pebble]

Invulnerability should mean you can't take damage, not that you can't die.

[loud belfry]

why DOES it say invulerability?

[void dragon]

I feel that's worse

[stuck gorge]

You can’t die if you can’t take damage though?

[uncut pebble]

Anywho this means your teammates can eat a crusher overhead in h40 without going down/dying without golden toughness if you pop chorus at the right time.

[loud belfry]

immortal could mean that you can go to 1 hp. invulnerable means you are not vulnerable to anything

[void dragon]

You can't take damage: IM INVINCIBLE!
You can't die: this purple hoop in my Hp bar is icky

[void dragon]

That's crazy

[loud belfry]

bro who said it makes you immortal was more or less right

[void dragon]

So it not only staggers the heretic army but also guarantees that you survive to hear the full lecture on how to pray to the Emperor?

I'm speechless

[hearty panther]

It's just super duper funny since they tacked it onto an ability that is already making you more or less immortal with gold toughness

So you'd have to have zero toughness to start and then eat an overhead before the pulses put you over into gold, or eat two inbetween two pulses.

[loud belfry]

gold toughness makes you invincible (until you arent). the "invulnerability" in the tooltip is merely immortality (you cannot be shown to be mortal aka die).

[hearty panther]

And even at the highest possible level of play that's very unlikely.

It's probably at its best hypothetical use case when you're walking straight through gunner fire.

[void dragon]

It's so unnecessary for how it already gives you THE ultimate safety net

[tall torrent]

Give chorus an upgrade where u plant it down as a flag and keep getting buff as long as u stay in a certain radius around that flag

But u can fight in the meantime

[stuck gorge]

honestly that should just be how it is

[void dragon]

Doing a Titus

[uncut pebble]

Sm2 bulwark banner.

[stuck gorge]

just make flag really tiny since we’re rejects

[void dragon]

Honestly that one scene of Titus holding the banner while shooting at the hordes with his chapter brothers should totally be a Veteran thingy

[calm shard]

so a point tax to make the ability usable

[tall torrent]

hell yea

there's only 1 ability in the entire game that genuinely doesn't need subnodes

every other one takes at least one

[void dragon]

Point tax like stuff like bubble, shout, vent, charge, taunt and many others don't use some extra points to get their best effects

[calm shard]

bubble isn't a circle without investing a skill point into it

it's a single pitifully small rectangle

shout doesn't give gold toughness without an upgrade

[void dragon]

A rectangle that still can save your life

[calm shard]

vent doesn't apply soulblaze or give peril reduction without upgrades

charge doesn't restore toughness when it hits enemies without an upgrade

[void dragon]

Wait, what are you arguing? that is MY point

[calm shard]

oh

[tall torrent]

shield takes 2
VoC takes 1
bull rush takes 1
taunt at least 1, usually 2

[tulip ivy]

Anyone know how I get the Lawbringer shotgun?

[void dragon]

Taunt options are solid so I would say 2 is good

What about executioner stance?

Can we give it a new node that makes it so you have reduced movement speed but you regenerate toughness for team while still being able to doing fighting and small dodges?

[tall torrent]

it's the only one with 0

[tame lodge]

Renamed to Zarona

[tall torrent]

it genuinely doesn't need any subnode

[tame lodge]

Check marks on the top right in your inventory

[tulip ivy]

k thanks

[void dragon]

Yeah, it's CD is super low isn't it?

[hollow ibex]

25s?

idr

[calm shard]

30 seconds

but it's also the dedicated "I eat specialist enemies" button

So you're never going to see it have longer than 15 probably

[spark cipher]

*that enemies can shoot through with varying levels of inconsistancy

[manic badger]

for 3 stamina curious they have to be at least 410 to actually give 3 stam correct?

[uncut pebble]

Yes.

[swift crest]

Vetbros, I finally got it. The good numbers.

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/congrats-nice-happy-for-you-congrats-nice-happy-for-you-gif-1927193140186872022

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-chat-wonyoung-gif-15276262740223942189

[hollow ibex]

who is this "chat", and who killed him??

[loud belfry]

through inaction, we all did

[dreamy scaffold]

what blessings do i run for lasgun?

[steep grail]

what lasgun

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-died-funny-animals-fat-gif-13843647

dead cat

[calm shard]

which one there are many lasguns

[dreamy scaffold]

kantrael

also for context, id have imagined i woudlve clarified if i meant something other than the OG, but im not gonna start something over that

[calm shard]

okay all three infantry lasguns are kantrael

and one of the laspistols is also kantrael

and they do not have the same damage profiles or breakpoints

which mark

[dreamy scaffold]

mk7

[hollow ibex]

check pins

[calm shard]

flak+unarmored or maniac with Headhunter and Ghost

it's pinned?

oh right the guide is pinned

forgor

[dreamy scaffold]

thanks for the blessings ig? lmao

[loud estuary]

how do you actually play the plasma gun? i keep having alot of trouble with it

[hollow ibex]

melee, and then when a bunch of elites show up, tag and headshot them

and you're also on specialist duty

you should be the ones railing specialists with plasma

rest of the time, you use melee

[loud estuary]

so save up plasma ammo until i see specialist?

[hollow ibex]

yeah you should be using the gun on priority targets/enemies you can't just immediately thwack in melee

it's a hybrid playstyle

[loud estuary]

i see

[hollow ibex]

(which is really most of vet tbh)

[loud estuary]

i was using it wrong this whole time

[hollow ibex]

a lot of players play vet thinking it's the shooter class, but it really isn't at this point

[loud estuary]

do i try to gun captains down with it

[hollow ibex]

it has pretty mid dps against bosses

[loud estuary]

or do i wait until void shield is down

[hollow ibex]

and even worse against void shields

use melee instead

[sharp epoch]

just use melee on captains no gun at all unless you got bolter and his shield is down

[loud estuary]

tbh from what ive seen it has quite decent monstrocities damages

but ill take your word for it

[hollow ibex]

it's eh

stuff like the shredder auto pistol has unironically higher boss dps

[loud estuary]

my glorius shredder auto pistol

my first ever mastery in game

[hollow ibex]

i missed the glory days of it

but it's pretty decent again

[grizzled pebble]

Oops wrong chat.

[woven cove]

You can play it as a shooter class in the normal mode with ammo efficient weapons, tbf.

Tho constantly switching weapons with Weapon Specialist (especially if you also take Agile Engagement) is really fun.

[gilded wraith]

Just random thoughts... onslaughts interaction with shredder grenades was overpowered and required nerfs. Jump a year and a half forward and here's your penetrating flame for inferno staff and flamer.

[calm shard]

there are literally zero guns in this game that do good damage to captains

all of them are bad at killing captains

[jaunty tinsel]

i think thats literally by design too

the game really really wants you to use melee on them

[calm shard]

and somehow despite that there will still be crayon munching morons magdumping bolters and recon lasguns into them

[jaunty tinsel]

its the DT team's fault for making the gunplay fun

if they wanted everyone to meleemax they shouldve made the guns all terrible in general and unfun to use

[grand perch]

pre-rework ogryn be like

[uncut pebble]

The best thing a gun can do to a captain is one of the brautos is pretty good at killing a voidshield.

Otherwise don't shoot captains.

[calm shard]

I have tried all 3 of them in psykhanium and they all seem pretty bad at it

[woven cove]

3 veterans with duelling swords

It falls onto me, the one veteran with devil's claw, to clear hordes.

[dry cloak]

devil claw

a weapon of chads

[woven cove]

Fucking zealot throwing flame grenades instead of just cutting the horde with his relic blade, BRUH.

Just fucking help before they overwhelm and kill me.

[dreamy scaffold]

dude i didnt think the devils claw was so insanely chad before

i was clearing hordes like crazy

and crushers or buls werent an issue

its kind of crazy how much you can utilize the devils claw

[bold sierra]

Played infantry lasgun in Havoc 40, it's not bad at all, one of my favorite builds to play tbh. And didn't exactly rely too much on Power sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQt1RT4xgo

[dry cloak]

a lot of people complain about devil claw being rather bad againts everything is armor

[dreamy scaffold]

maybe sorta, but parry exists

theres def better for armor.. like.. armor pen weapons

lmao

[dry cloak]

i think parry is single most powerful attack stat wise

[dreamy scaffold]

absolutely

and it staggers

only issue is its only drawback, stam

but just take stam curios

[tame lodge]

5 damage to flak

[dreamy scaffold]

just heby

our great and mighty lord, da heby

[tame lodge]

5 damage to flak

💀

[dreamy scaffold]

hey hes the little sword that could okay

[dry cloak]

heavy sword is also a chad weapon

not many users.

[calm shard]

I use it when I have a gun that can easily and reliably kill carapace

hey wait I've been playing exe stance bolter/helbore again

I should use my heavy sword

[spark cipher]

crit weakspot parry against carapace does 477 damage, only thing about DC is you really need a gun to answer for carapace

crushers will laugh at you otherwise

[tame lodge]

5 flak damage

Horrible ahh flak adm

[spark cipher]

I mean yeah flak also dumpsters it's damage but it's still workable against flak imo carapace is a straight no

[bold sierra]

I didnt know vet got heavy sword until a couple of days ago, really do love it

[bold sierra]

yeah taking carapace dmg for DC is crazy work xD, maniac and unarmored for me on DC

[dreamy scaffold]

ive not had issues killing crushers w/ dc

[heavy rover]

I will gladly preach about infantry las on havoc

[uncut pebble]

Without talents?

I'm fairly certain it does a bit more than 477 damage once you factor talents in.

[bold sierra]

you CAN do it, but it's gonna take forever tis all i'm saying

especially if it gets to havoc 40

[dreamy scaffold]

yea i migjt not ever get there

but

oh well

[quiet valley]

Bro your ammo pickups 💀 where’s Shocktrooper?

[bold sierra]

tbf, I'm literally the only person dealing with ranged enemies from afar, so I do need a lot of ammo for that lmao, would be nice if zealots take bolter more but noooo

[quiet valley]

This is a Las weapon with some chest hair

I want inf las to be good but it feels like I’m throwing the lobby, it cant pump boss dmg well and struggles with Mauler TTK

[heavy rover]

When it comes to maulers and bosses I swap to power sword to deal with them. Most of the time on my infantry las build I'm focused on gunners, specialists, and ranged enemies as a whole

[quiet valley]

Like its fine in H40, but you could do so much better, feels like such a mid pick atm

[sand anchor]

I use Recon lasgun and the fencing sword

[spark cipher]

before talents and buffs, but compare this to something like power sword or even shovel and it's still not that great, and that's best case

[bold sierra]

it really does depend on how long the match goes on I guess, and I assume this one went on for quite a while based on the dmg lol, and I assume you probably used a lot of power sword too cuz I really find it hard to believe that recon lasing with that much dmg without taking ammo is...possible xD, cuz my buddy running recon las barely has any ammo left in the first...idk, 10 mins in Havoc 40 if he uses it a lot.

in my video, I did opt to use my inf lasgun a lot, like the majority of the match

but I'll admit, infantry lasguns do need something more, and recon does do a lot more boss DPS than it for sure

[quiet valley]

This is Laspistol X, with DSiv for Crushers/Captians

[bold sierra]

alright well las pistol is a bit harder to believe as well xD, that thing probably burns through ammo faster than recon

[orchid hemlock]

Laspistol is literally the most ammo efficient gun in the game what

[quiet valley]

Its ususally a zero ammo pickup gun for me, only need drops when shit gets bad

Avg LasX game

[bold sierra]

maybe I use it on zealot a lot, and it's certainly not quite so ammo efficient, cuz well, it DOES deal less dmg than infantry lasgun, Also he's talking about Laspistol X so probably it's less spammy

with more dmg

[woven cove]

Devil's Claw can deal with anything that doesn't have armor well enough.
But it kinda struggles a bit even against flak, at least with light attacks.

[orchid hemlock]

Nothing is ammo efficient on Zealot

[quiet valley]

I think optimizing Ammo pickups / dmg is important for Vet since good ammo dumps with Rumbler/Flamer/Bolter help a lot

[orchid hemlock]

Wait I forgot about the Hellbore

Literally ammo glitch

[quiet valley]

I want Helbore to be good but that mf equip time

[bold sierra]

man helbore equip time isnt even that bad imo, then again I really prefer playing the blue and green varients more that's less snipery

[orchid hemlock]

Nah it's horrible, it's longer that Bolt Gun

It forces you to take the swap speed node on Vet

Which isn't a big deal since you take it anyways most of the time

[bold sierra]

I mean I take swap speed on both bolter and helbore anyway, cuz out for blood. But I really dont think it's worse than Bolter's. I'll check it again for good measures

unless u guys are accounting for the charge up time too

[quiet valley]

Helbore will be good when Exec stance is good in Havoc

[uncut pebble]

Helbore will be good when they disable the goofy safety feature it has as part of its equip animation.

[orchid hemlock]

Ah yes a safety switch in the Warhammer universe 🥰

[pseudo fiber]

It's the only one they got alright they gotta cherish it

[woven cove]

You can actually see safety switches on most infantry weapons.

You just don't have a "gotta flip this thing" animation with them.

Recon lasgun, for example.

[pseudo fiber]

Placebo

[woven cove]

Looks like a select fire/safety switch.

Autopistol.

[tame lodge]

No full auto in buildings

[woven cove]

Infantry autogun.

[tame lodge]

[orchid hemlock]

Did they break the switch?

[woven cove]

The plasma gun straight up looks like it has a grip safety so it doesn't shoot by accident if it gets too hot and you drop it.

[calm shard]

heavy sword doesn't kill orange poxwalkers :(

oh well it tried its best

what if I do something irrational and put +infested on it

hmmmm

[sleek garden]

The inspect animation for the infantry lasgun starts with you flipping it to safe

[calm shard]

assumedly that weird thing ontop of the ripper gun is also its safety

[sleek garden]

Maybe it has a toggle lock like a luger

[bold sierra]

ok I mean, it's BASICALLY the same switch speed (not accounting for charge time), but personally I do kinda prefer helbore more cuz it's just easier to aim with, feels like a much smoother transition

plus bayonet

[woven cove]

Same with recon.

You can kinda see the character flip safety on some weapons before inspecting them.

Bolter doesn't seem to have any safety tho.

[pseudo fiber]

That's a fun detail

[tame lodge]

Ogryn knows gun safety

[pseudo fiber]

Also makes sense you do not want that fucking thing having a toggle safety

[calm shard]

okay I think I've settled into this for havoc exe stance play

with bolter or helbore

helbore drops longshot and the relod talents for shock trooper, marksman, and the stamina regen from focus target

[bold sierra]

I have a build like that for helbore too

nice

[calm shard]

bolter feels far better to use because it can shoot through hordes more reliably even if the Helbore hits noticably harder

I tried MMF but while it is technically a higher damage output for me personally

[spark cipher]

Now watch this build be unplayable (they see you aren't running shout and instantly start a votekick)

[calm shard]

and also basically always at max stacks at that

It does less damage overall since it doesn't affect my teammates

It makes Crushers a 2 shot instead of 3 shot headshot, and consistnetly makes Ragers a 1 shot headshot at all ranges tho

So that's very cool

It being more expensive to get is also a pain in the ass for MMFs sake

[bold sierra]

what's MMF exactly?

woops wrong reply

mb

[calm shard]

Marksman's Focus

the left keystone

[bold sierra]

ah yes

[orchid hemlock]

I never talked about how good the Hellbore "feels"

All I said is that it has the worst switch speed out of all of the vet weapons. I can care less about your "vibes" 💀

[bold sierra]

and like the video I posted

it's literally the same

[orchid hemlock]

Did you actually measure it or did you just eyeball it?

[calm shard]

I think Helbore still feels fantastic to use it's just a lot less versatile than Bolter on havocs

Which can be irritating in certain moments

[bold sierra]

I literally tagged you in the side by side vid I uploaded above

[faint wedge]

Helbore is cool because you can stab people with it too

[calm shard]

The Helbore that does good damage is the one with the bad bayonet

[orchid hemlock]

Ok?

[tame lodge]

Mk4 propaganda
I'm here for it

[orchid hemlock]

So did you measure it?

[tame lodge]

[woven cove]

Spawn in, 2 people dead, push ahead against gunners hoping the other guy will back me up...he just fucking hides in a corner and I die.

[orchid hemlock]

And yeah I'm aware that Bolt Gun and Hellbore have similar pull out times

That's the whole reason I compared them in the first place

[calm shard]

very common for inexperienced players

[woven cove]

Damnation difficulty.

[bold sierra]

i mean, what more do you want? measure what exactly? It's side by side

it's definitely not longer at least

[calm shard]

they try to avoid or defend themselves from problem enemies rather than killing them to make them stop being a problem

It's why Chorus and Bubble are popular

They delay problems long enough for someone else to deal with the problem

Rather than being a tool that directly makes you better at taking care of problems

[woven cove]

Bruh, second time spawning into complete shitshow and instantly dying.

Wish I had infiltrate instead of shout.

[orchid hemlock]

I'm starting to this this guy works as a criminal attorney

Yesterday they were dying on a hill trying to justify taking impact over duelist on the THammer

[bold sierra]

dude I never died on that hill xD

wym

it was just a build i had, plus with the build and breakpoints I had, duelist didn't exactly matter at all when I adjusted to it, maybe it did matter for when I pull out my infantry autogun, and maybe occasionally a bit more dmg to monsters for chastise, but all in all, not super consistent. It is nice to have but it wasnt the end of the world without. I dont even care about Impact, but SoC can be pretty value at times too, especially if you were headbutting monster most of the times

[woven cove]

Bruh, loading screen into fail mission screen.

What the fuck is going on today.

[bold sierra]

[orchid hemlock]

Idk maybe it's my fault too for falling for the bait 😞

[bold sierra]

dude i dont even know whether you're baiting me or I'm baiting you at this point

[orchid hemlock]

I was being serious today and yesterday, but I'm starting to think that Galeo was right

[bold sierra]

then for argument's sake, you're not exactly considering my points

there's diminishing return, cuz I was legit testing in in H40 true solo sandbox

afterwards

[orchid hemlock]

There is no point to make on your "vibes"

I'm going back to shit posting 🚶🏻‍♀️

[scarlet crescent]

[bold sierra]

i literally provided evidence of my testing and you defaulted to "vibes", there's no winning

heck

[pseudo fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-the-boys-yummers-gif-730693117818784194

[bold sierra]

have fun shit posting ig

[bold sierra]

whack

[calm shard]

I thought you were baiting?

Like as an outside observer you are coming off as extremely irrational

[orchid hemlock]

No?

At least not intentionally

[loud belfry]

orcka devalues people and their opinions offhandedly or directly then calls them/you a troll baiter because he doesn't like your opinions enough

[bold sierra]

what can you do

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/ferret-angry-gif-23442156

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-lightsaber-fight-palpatine-kill-jedi-masters-palpatine-evil-darkside-goooood-dew-it-old-man-palps-execution-unlimited-power-gif-10298579073197037970

[bold sierra]

I mean, you CAN have differing opinions AND respect them, unless you're not then all bets are off , pretty basic lukewarm but valid fact there.

[orchid hemlock]

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another when you unironically think they are factual and then backpedal to "it's just my opinion 🥺" when you actually need to dig your heels in

[bold sierra]

i dunno what to tell ya, regarding the duelist thing, it was legit just built for my own purposes and I did think it was overkill for my own purposes, I never said it was a bad choice, if I remember correctly, I literally said "I will consider picking it after" yesterday to you lmao, in case you dont remembr

ah yes, this is totally me unironically thinking I'm being factual and invalidating others' opinions and not being flexible.

[quiet valley]

Zealot slop in vet chat smh

[bold sierra]

mb mb

[orchid hemlock]

True I want the shit posting back 😞

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-twerk-cat-wiggle-cat-dance-gif-7618085441078150072

[ornate ivy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1339268223723503707/1350706004895207444/GIF_20250315_223748_486.gif

zealot and ogryn fighting for frontline

[spark cipher]

Psyker watching a sniper shoot straight through their non bubble shield

[grand perch]

hit detection, man

[loud belfry]

I wonder what would happen if we all just started reporting every ghost hit we experience with a full proper ticket with evidence. probably nothing.

[grand perch]

probably not much because thats incredibly hard to fix

[loud belfry]

their game is fuggin broken

[grand perch]

show build please

[dry cloak]

hard headed sniper

[grand perch]

@tired egret approved

[grand perch]

he always drinks his melk

[dry cloak]

yup

[quiet valley]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9da7999f-314a-47e5-a245-2df66897ac31/ammo-fountain-havoc-40

enjoy

[grand perch]

oh its deadshot "meme", that would explain the ammo efficiency

[spark cipher]

btw how many stacks of burn does accatran special ammo apply?

[tall torrent]

0.45 per real pellet hit
up to 6 from a single ranged special attack
up to 10 from ranged special attacks

[bold sierra]

ah I see, you got shocktrooper and deadshot, makes sense now xD

all good tho

and opening salvo too

not to mention las pistol high crit chance too

[calm shard]

it'd be pretty easy to fix if they didn't care about cheaters

and have the game handle enemies mostly client side