veteran-class

[dry cloak]

smoke and shredder should switch places

[calm shard]

smokes are garbage crowd on their way to praise krak grenades

[dry cloak]

i think that all 3 vet nades have a job to do

[orchid hemlock]

Hey I enjoy wiping bull walks off the face of the earth

[dry cloak]

people just dont know how to utilize smokes good

[dry cloak]

i like kraks because they allow me to fill in armor damage hole

[orchid hemlock]

I would do something like this with ILAS

[midnight totem]

How about we just, move grenade regen to the top of the skill tree,then branch out from there

[calm shard]

isn't that one of the things path suggested in moving things around the skill tree

placing grenade regen where the minor node to get to grenades is

[dry cloak]

alternatively

regen node

as grenade upgrade?

with different cooldowns

like kraks get 40s shredders stay at 60 and smoke at 30-50s

[calm shard]

smokes last 30 seconds with grenade tinker

[dry cloak]

and then

drenaded tinkerer also as upgrade to eah nade

split into 3

with additional effects perhaps

[midnight totem]

Grenade tinkerer: Smokes now have "have a good day" scribbled onto them and boost ally morale for 100 percent stamina regen inside it

Grenade tinkerer: kraks now have "woe be upon you", written by your squads ogryn, and that's why they do more damage and cause brittle

Shredder grenades now have an ogryn tooth stuck in them when they accidently thought it was food.

Anyway, this is why it has a greater radius and does more bleed damage.

[karmic moat]

They reduced the helbore's rate-of-stab and now I'm eternally sad.

[lilac stump]

I just want to have a clear and usable path for ranged Veteran. If they could do that, and not make it a damn sentry turret I would be happy.

[midnight totem]

So you want to be a mobile Sentry turret

[plucky linden]

damn, i fucking wish I had Achlyss for my sniper vet, instead of the lolHellbore.

[karmic moat]

I just wanna stab man, that was my whole thing

[hollow ibex]

Too OPobviously

[ocean idol]

Which shotgun is best against crowd, not counting double shotty?

[hollow ibex]

Lawbringer prob

Whatever it’s called now

[calm shard]

Zarona

slug shotty is Agripinaa, and fire shotty is Kantrael

[ocean idol]

Was it not considered bad?

[sharp epoch]

It's fine just not ammo efficient enough to be used a lot

[ocean idol]

this was one i used

Tuned against crowds

[sharp epoch]

Agripina one I don't like though, it's just a worse revolver

[pearl mason]

What is the special of that mark?

[ocean idol]

fire

[mortal horizon]

if you guys had to pick the strongest overall vet build for havoc 30+ (skill tree, weapons) what is it?

so far this has been doing it for me well, but plasma is also good. https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9eaf1153-0925-4a5f-a98a-3617dd1fa04e/havoc-30-vet-grenade-and-recon-las-build

am i using anything super bad here?
Note: relentless strikes on DS can be literally anything else, and i use others. Ive just been experimenting with it to give that extra oomph in boss dueling for current havoc

ive noticed it helps a lot when you're backed into a corner by a PO or CS and need to finish it

[hollow ibex]

Worse revolver, making it the best combat shotgun

[tall torrent]

It’s ok

Granted I don’t think u need onslaught if u already have uncanny strike

(Or onslaught in general tbh)

[tropic notch]

Path sensei what is my next lesson

[tall torrent]

Idk

[tropic notch]

[mortal horizon]

ive gone back and forth, but i think both are good. You dont want to melee with this build, its missing attack speed and a bunch of good stuff.

but sometimes you're forced to or its ideal to save ammo. Especially on armor groups, bosses targeting you.

Othertimes, onslaught has allowed me to literally come out on top of armor waves when i needed to burst dps and kill things with no regard to ammo

it gives you that option

but i could see dropping it

[tropic notch]

I’ve mastered the blade

[mortal horizon]

when I run weapon specialist, I dont run it.
but for this keystone-less build I found it helped a lot

[tropic notch]

He wants me to take my own path

[tall torrent]

Duelling sword doesn’t need melee atk speed to be good at melee

[mortal horizon]

it doesn't

[tropic notch]

Havoc vet is just nade spam

[mortal horizon]

but it helps a lot when pressured and trying to clear poxwalkers on you and grunts and you're out of nades

which does happen

a good bit in havoc 30+

[sharp epoch]

Plasma/DS or Plasma/Psword WS build is what I find works. DS if you need to survive and your team can handle hordes easy

[tropic notch]

Ps helps

[tall torrent]

At that point power sword is better

Power sword is better in every metric besides running & dodging

[mortal horizon]

i like plasma alot, its my most played, i think its good too. But with new modifiers ive been liking the recon a lot, since it does a lot better dps/ammo dump efficiency on bosses

[mortal horizon]

running and dodging are the most important metrics for melee weapon mostly used for saftey on a ranged build, imo

powersword = 0 ability to clutch

[sharp epoch]

You don't wanna shoot bosses I find, melee dps is way better

[mortal horizon]

0 ability to kite

and no mobility

its fun in auric

but IMO it sucks

giving up all mobility to be a sitting duck is just not for me

i would prefer knife, ds

[plucky linden]

what blessings/traits on PSword for high diff content?

[sharp epoch]

Psword works when your group is good at supporting you (taunt, book, bubble)

If they're not good at that, yeah pick DS

[tall torrent]

Nah it doesn’t need all that

[mortal horizon]

usually, but recon las has decent dmg, and good ammo efficiency, so its great safe boss dmg. I melee them a lot too, but sometimes you cant or need safe dps

[tall torrent]

It’s perfectly serviceable on its own

[mortal horizon]

i play with almost all party finder randoms. all my builds are built to solo clutch unfortunately

i cannot play relying on teammates

[sharp epoch]

Well works as in that's when it's best

[plucky linden]

and which PSword people usually run?

[tame lodge]

Power Cycler + Sunder

Mk6 Power Sword

[plucky linden]

ty

[tall torrent]

VI
Cleave target dump
Carapace
Elite
Power cycler
Brutal momentum

[mortal horizon]

6, for the poke push attack light light combo usually. big dmg on elites, bosses

[normal pawn]

i mean the shredder grenade one is just logical.

[plucky linden]

wait, cleave target is dump? Why is that

[tall torrent]

Not meaningfully impactful

[sharp epoch]

Yeah randoms are a hit or miss, even the one random ogryn here went down like 6 times. But see melee is what I use for dps on bosses

[mortal horizon]

example. using the build i posted above.
We lost this game in the final event, bc everyone went down and i had to solo a captain and CS and couldn't with the other pressure.
I went down 1 other time due to a mutant combo into fire earlier, and was easily picked up. Otherwise didnt the whole game, took the least dmg, killed the most everything...carried hard. Still lost.
I find these games impossible to win with powersword bc i end up having to clutch too often in party finder

[red robin]

Devils claw sword mobility vs cleave targets for dumpstat?

What’s the science between 60-80% cleave targets?

[tall torrent]

Mobility

[red robin]

Makes wrath stronger?

[tall torrent]

Why wrath

[red robin]

Or you can dump wrath for shred with cleave targets at 80%

I’m figuring rampage is the science

[tall torrent]

Normally it’s shred + rampage

[red robin]

Ok

[mortal horizon]

i melee dps bosses with relentless + uncanny DS too, and its good.
but sometimes its not safe to as vet and getting in there is too dangerous. Or someone is kitting a DH or w/e.
I find recon las ammoe fficient spam on their head after a shout for dmg boost very good there

[sharp epoch]

I don't think a clutch would be possible with DS either tbh against all that

[mortal horizon]

it brings a utility/option you have plasma doesnt

bc plasma boss dps kinda sucks, or at least drains ammo too bad

[mortal horizon]

maybe not that time, but totally possible

i have the speed if my CD is up to kite the CS and captain

and put burn dmg on it while dodging back

then j ust duel it a bit

i can kill 1 pretty quickly doing that

unfortunate part was i got boxed in with no grenades up, and couldn't get my kiting going

[red robin]

Which DS? IV?

[mortal horizon]

DS 4 yes is the best one typically, although all are good/viable. I even find some of the other models more fun sometimes just to use em for shits and giggles

but the 4 is the best

highest dmg heavy and it repeats that heavy over and over

just stab stab stab

[sharp epoch]

Yeah DS has a lot more advantages than psword and they both perform the same function that theyre absolutely needed at carapace/bulwark/boss killing

[red robin]

I like the V with weapon specialist to abuse dodge range

But ngl

[tame lodge]

You pretty much lose ~1 cleave

[mortal horizon]

dont get me wrong, have lots of hours on PS. i love the ps, used it in auric exclusively

[red robin]

Makes me rusty with dodge timing

[mortal horizon]

havoc just has me needing that mobility too often

i find myself slugged down by it

[tall torrent]

What did u put on it

[sharp epoch]

I'd say DS is just more useful with a competent team where you don't need to hordeclear yourself just let ogryns and psykers handle it

[mortal horizon]

being able to swap to melee, zip away with a heavy -> dodge slide -> back to ranged and start shooting (or with knife) is a tech thats very ingrained in my muscle memory and ability to kite/clutch

so its hard for me to play at my best in havoc with a ps

even tho i can get away with it in auric

ya its biggest downfall is hordeclear

but thats also why the recon las is good

you can supplement horde clear with it a bit and not feel bad

bc you get so much free ammo

[sharp epoch]

I get away with it in havoc*** purely because the potential is maximized by having a team with a lot of CC aka trauma psyker, taunt ogryn, and book zealot

[mortal horizon]

only when pressured/no grenades tho

[mortal horizon]

ya, do you play with friends or randos?

i would be willing with a good team, once ina while you find one

but im in the "lose 3-5 havocs in a row ands derank every night before finding an ok team, win 1-2 then epople leave. repeat" cycle right now

[sharp epoch]

One or two friends and a random usually to fill out the spots

[mortal horizon]

stuck in the low 30s

and sometimes high 20s after a bad night

ah

none of my friends are good enough or still play unlike my addicted ass

i have friends ive made in game/here i invite occasionally

but nothing regular

so im at the whims of party finder

[tame lodge]

If only there was a Dueling Sword with Mk4 stab but a better horde clear

[tall torrent]

Go ogryn then honestly

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/suit-meme-gif-3154536417054843778

[sharp epoch]

Party finder randoms are hit or miss yesterday I was trying it and I had a smite psyker doing nothing basically

[mortal horizon]

oh, i play all 4 classes

i switch nightly

[tall torrent]

Ogryn is basically indestructible atm

[mortal horizon]

lol

[tall torrent]

Vet has fewest options to be strong

[mortal horizon]

ogryn ive been having the most carry success on tbh ya

[hollow ibex]

Do people in party finder know ogryn is broken good though

[tall torrent]

Yea

[sharp epoch]

Also had a bolt pistol veteran being carried but we won that

[tall torrent]

Pretty frequent to find 2 Ogryns

[mortal horizon]

but surprisingly vet is second.
I love my zealot, its my highest level. But im sick of being a chorus stick.
Psyker is a hard carry but way harder to clutch and way less safe than vet

ogryn and vet have been my 2 most successful havoc runs with randos

[sharp epoch]

Ogryn is really busted on havoc and easy to play

[mortal horizon]

ya i love ogryn

im a big pickaxe guy

[hollow ibex]

Yeah ogryns a lot of fun now, feels like easy mode

The only threat is trappers

[sharp epoch]

Even trappers you can trivalize them by taunting

[mortal horizon]

so back to my original question.
if you had to choose a build and weapon (ranged) thats best in havoc overall, what is it?

plasma + weapon specialist?

[tall torrent]

Chorus doesn’t scale as good vs red

[mortal horizon]

plasma + focus target?

[lusty ether]

https://tenor.com/view/piccolo-dbz-atfuraxx-gif-14120574

[mortal horizon]

i think recon + keystoneless is in the discussion, tbh, it feels really good to me

[tall torrent]

Power sword
Recon / plasma

[mortal horizon]

im more interested in the combo of the gun, with the actual skill/talent build

is it plasma + WS? Plasma + focus target? etc

[sharp epoch]

I use that and I've been winning I guess

[tall torrent]

WS

[mortal horizon]

ive been seeing a lot of focus target bc of boss spam tho

and thought it could be better

[tall torrent]

If duelling sword, take focus target instead

If power sword, take WS
If duelling sword, take FT

[sharp epoch]

focus target is kinda useless its like a 20% damage buff at max stacks and really only shines for bosses

[tall torrent]

Focus target is stam / toughness / damage

And u get BiD on the way to FT

So that’s already more damage than onslaught route

[tall torrent]

And a 25 toughness node

[sharp epoch]

sigh more points in an already expensive build

for WS i just take the first thing no reload subnode

[mortal horizon]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9eaf1a97-69d7-4b49-8b0f-829e3d67871e/havoc-plasma-shout-weapon-specialist

this is how im building plasma WS.
I was told recently you need unarmoured for gunner breakpoints on plasma and was trying it, but dunno if that knowledge is correct

[tall torrent]

Why

[sharp epoch]

You need unarmored and marksman to one shot dreg gunners

[tall torrent]

Dreg gunner 1hs is not a thing in havoc without crit

2100 health unarmored

[mortal horizon]

so no reason to have unarmoured without marksman keystone?

[tall torrent]

Unarmored gives Dreg shotgunner 1hs

[mortal horizon]

i find i can 1hs them when charged up with blessings going atm

but maybe its bc im not havoc 40 yet

[tall torrent]

Why charge shot

[mortal horizon]

and im 30s

no not charged shot

i mean like

blessings charged up

bc high heat

sorry

[tall torrent]

Without unarmored it should be pretty far off

Unless u crit

[mortal horizon]

maybe im critting in those scenerios

[sharp epoch]

sigh this is why we need havoc psykanium

[mortal horizon]

ya i want it too

[tall torrent]

Nah just do basic maths

It’s easy

[mortal horizon]

so should i just drop unarmoured?

for what?

[tropic notch]

Ws gives you a guaranteed crit

[sharp epoch]

but I've one tapped dreg gunners in havoc after shout without critting im pretty sure

[mortal horizon]

maniac, unyielding? elite?

[tall torrent]

There’s not rly anything better

Maniac needs far too much investment for a potential flamer 1hs

[mortal horizon]

this might be what im doing

shout talent buffs + blessings built up

[tall torrent]

Then they’re not full health or not full scaling

Or both

[sharp epoch]

Well I said shout cause marksman

[sharp epoch]

I mostly play h40s so they're full scaled at least

[mortal horizon]

so unarmoured + flak still the play?

this build is good

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9eaf1a97-69d7-4b49-8b0f-829e3d67871e/havoc-plasma-shout-weapon-specialist

just making sure i dont have any major mistakes

obviously ill swap out to knife or DS too depending

[sharp epoch]

I don't use the subnodes for WS

you can reload during downtime usually

[tropic notch]

I’d get a stam node if I’m using the ps

[mortal horizon]

i find the reload one really good, but ya, im able to animation sprint cancel the reload. The toughness gain is noticeable as well.
but those 2 points can be big, where do you put them? Red nodes? (dmg after ult? its all base dmg which is huge)

[sharp epoch]

And stamina regen node is necessary if your playing ps push attack spam

[mortal horizon]

or should i grab +25 tough

[tall torrent]

It’s possible to get a 1hs with marksman up if u have 4 or more stacks of rising heat

[mortal horizon]

using a stam curio with PS

[tall torrent]

Or have CQKZ also active

Smth like that

It’s niche

Yea CQKZ + marksman gets u that breakpoint

[tropic notch]

I do too, it’s the delay not the regen itself

[sharp epoch]

curio is different from .25 stamina regen speed

[tall torrent]

Nah

It’s not needed

[tropic notch]

Me likes it

[tall torrent]

U physically cannot spam it fast enough

[sharp epoch]

I was testing against like crushers and bulwarks you'll run out of steam if your dodging and push attacking without the node

[tall torrent]

By the time u finish L4 overhead, stam regen starts

U have to be excessively dodging for it to run out

[tropic notch]

[sharp epoch]

It's necessary with how bad ps sword dodge is

[tropic notch]

I do dat sometimes

[tall torrent]

It just isn’t

[tropic notch]

Sometimes

[tall torrent]

Power sword and Rashad have pretty similar stamina usage frequency in combat

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

If u don’t need it for Rashad u don’t need it for power sword

[sharp epoch]

I mean Rashad doesn't push attack spam as much as psword

[tall torrent]

Nah it does

They both use push atks often, just against different things

[sharp epoch]

on horde but its useless vs bosses and crushers

[mortal horizon]

ok, ill try it after dropping those 2 WS augment points.
Where should they go tho? these are my options as I see them.

[tall torrent]

CQKZ + marksman

[mortal horizon]

assuming i want a .25 stam regen

[mortal horizon]

idk what that means

[tall torrent]

Then just marksman

[tall torrent]

Close quarters killzone
Marksman

[mortal horizon]

where are those

im confused

ah ok, red node above WS

[tall torrent]

Red node on bottom left and right sides

[mortal horizon]

but what is marksman, isnt that a keystone

im already taking WS

[tall torrent]

No

[mortal horizon]

ohhh

[sharp epoch]

Marksman is red thing on left side

[mortal horizon]

gotcha

[tall torrent]

Marksman is not marksman’s focus

[mortal horizon]

ok i see

[sharp epoch]

But yeah my two extra points are marksman and .25 stamina regen

[tall torrent]

Marksman is slightly more damage than CQKZ but only applies to ur weapons

[sharp epoch]

path uses cq killzone and marskamn

[tall torrent]

CQKZ is more generalist and buffs ur DoT as well

These two combined gives power sword 2 hit vs bulwark and crusher at max havoc scaling (without orange)

[mortal horizon]

ok so with powersword I want this?

and with DS/knife I want, this right?

[tall torrent]

Works
Alternatively marksman + stamina regen delay node on bottom left

[tropic notch]

If I’m running plasma I’d at least run the reload one

[tall torrent]

This is again for power sword

If u take DS, I think FT just scales better

[hollow ibex]

Reload node doesn’t help plasma much

[mortal horizon]

ya, i guess i figured CQKZ is better for powersword to lean into its boss killing, but i guessi could go either way

[tall torrent]

U get more direct damage bonuses on the way to FT

[tall torrent]

Marksman hits harder than CQKZ

[mortal horizon]

you mean swap keystones entirely for DS? really? ill try it too

[mortal horizon]

ya i guess close-damage distracted me, marksman isnt ranged only

ok that is better

always aiming for heads with mk6 poke

ok last question for now, for focus target build, whats the best nodes before focus target for that option?
Bring it Down!?
or is Competitive Urge better

and what are the important augment nodes for focus target

i never play it tbh

[tall torrent]

3 variations of power sword + plasma

[mortal horizon]

is Born Leader just always better in havoc than taking For the Emperor? I always regret not being able to take all 3 red base dmg boosting nodes

[tall torrent]

Yea

Because everyone has reduced toughness

So born leader value suddenly spikes

It’s not infrequent that veteran ends up with ~2x of zealot/psyker toughness

[tall torrent]

DS + recon

Can drop marksman for superiority complex

[tall torrent]

BiD is default

[tall torrent]

Redirect fire is good
But it doesn’t enable new breakpoints in havoc

Target down always nice. Free stamina and toughness

8 stacks is bait

U have to not tag anything for 14s to take full advantage of 8 stacks upgrade

(Don’t do that)

[calm flare]

Anybody got blessing tips for the power sword? I was thinking brutal momentum and slaughterer

[narrow frost]

In the pins there is a weapon guide for vet

blessings depend on mark of sword

[calm flare]

ty

[narrow frost]

3 is sunder and +2 charges

6 is brutal and +2 charges

[calm flare]

just started leveling it so havent unlocked the marks yet

but ty

[lusty ether]

So uhh

How do you make the shock maul good

[tame lodge]

You bring something to deal with Monstrosities

Then you get Skullcrusher

[tall torrent]

VI
Cleave target dump
Carapace
Elite
Power cycler
Brutal momentum

[tame lodge]

• High Voltage or Hammerblow

[elder spear]

@tall torrent I was told I should ping you if I was looking around for a good bolter veteran build, do you mind sharing if you have anything?

[tall torrent]

What melee

[elder spear]

Combat axe or dueling sword

Unless you'd recommend something else?

[tall torrent]

I think the top 2 melee weapons for boltgun are tac axe and heavy sword

[tall torrent]

Tac axe VII
Unarmored
Maniac
Brutal momentum
Headtaker

Boltgun
Maniac
Flak
Puncture
Pinning fire

[elder spear]

Thanks!

[tall torrent]

This is not for havoc

[elder spear]

Is bolt just not viable for havoc or is this particular build?

[tall torrent]

Veteran’s options in havoc are very limited

Boltgun costs too much in terms of talent spec

And is held back by ammo availability

[elder spear]

Currently running plasma gun and combat axe for havoc

[tall torrent]

Combat axe is not as good as power sword in current havoc

[elder spear]

Does it matter which mark for the power sword?

[tall torrent]

VI is better

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1278540580976328790/1359595536558068023/Desktop_2025.04.09_-_14.26.48.01.mp4?ex=67fff683&is=67fea503&hm=79f082ed7ba7152b7eb4326d9a9bf778838d6cb6542ffe55c658385c46411363&

[elder spear]

Is this viable for havoc?
Plasma gun: Carapace, Unyielding, Blaze away and Gets hot
Power sword: Carapace, Elites, Brutal momentum and Power cycler

[tall torrent]

3 variations of power sword + plasma

Plasma
Unarmored
Flak
Rising heat
Gets hot

[mortal horizon]

any reasoning to drop cleave or something else dump on powersword, and take 80 mobility to help with its mobility issue?

or is it not noticeable?

[warm schooner]

it's noticeable

[tall torrent]

10.9 vs 11.7 is negligible cleave difference

But +0.09 vs +0.27 is a noticeable sprint speed difference

[mortal horizon]

is it possible (havoc 30+) that bc of BM + powered mode, theres no noticeable difference dumping cleave targets, or cleave dmg instead?

[mortal horizon]

ah, so yes it is worth it?

[tall torrent]

There is no noticeable difference dumping cleave targets on power sword, period

[warm schooner]

mobility issues with psword is what will get you killed, haven't thought ever that more cleave would have saved me

[mortal horizon]

cleave targets, not dmg, ya?

[tall torrent]

@mortal horizon just refer to this

[mortal horizon]

i just never trust written guides. no idea who writes them, updates, etc

i like talking to people who actively play the tier/level of missions i do

[tall torrent]

I wrote it

[mortal horizon]

but if thats accurate ill look ty

is the mentioned sunder build actually worth considering for havoc?

[tall torrent]

Before havoc update yes

Currently no

Because sunder is for staggering mixed hordes

But power sword’s cleave damage distribution is not actually that good

[mortal horizon]

bc no 52nd mobian i guess?

i do see large waves of maulers, scab ragers etc

[tall torrent]

The result is that you’ll activate red on a bunch of elites

[mortal horizon]

in havoc now

[tall torrent]

Before u kill them

[mortal horizon]

ya thats dangerous

its gotten me killed on ragers before

[tall torrent]

Current havoc wants u to confirm as many kills as fast as possible

And by that metric nothing beats BM power sword

Not even ogryn melee weapons

Not even relic blade

[mortal horizon]

i know powersword is good but, uhhh, really?

double dmg blessing + HH karsolas questions that

ngl

lol

but ill believe you

👀

[tall torrent]

Karsolas is same 3 hit kill vs rager, power sword just attacks faster with light atks

Karsolas is obv safer with heavy stagger

[mortal horizon]

i often 1 shot ragers with heavies once stacked

if slaught, headtaker, HH

maybe not on havoc 40 tho

[tall torrent]

Not a thing in havoc

Havoc ragers have up to 3k health

[mortal horizon]

ill test it

[tall torrent]

Karsolas does maybe 1.4k on a weakspot heavy atk with max headtaker + slaughterer

[tall torrent]

If u cannot heavy sweep 1 hit rager in damnation, there’s no chance u can in havoc

[sharp epoch]

Ogryn weapons and kit are still better than vet at dealing with ragers, the heavy staggers makes them going into the enraged state not as punishing, while the psword stab can turn a normal hit into a one shot with zero stagger

[calm shard]

Ogryn basekit kills ragers

Every Ogryn weapon staggers ragers on a push

[hidden tree]

is there a major difference in the power swords on veteran in hav 40

like is the achlys better in every way or could i use the scandar

[void dragon]

on that line, no other weapon performs as well as the PSword aside of the Dueling sword?

[calm shard]

dueling sword is far outpaced by power sword in current havoc

safety does not matter

you must kill and kill quickly

new havoc is quite fascinating in that really

the dedicated defensive abilities and dueling sword that used to be meta for old havoc are all quite ass in it

because you need to kill things fast or you will be drowned in monstrosities

[hidden tree]

so scandar or achlys or is it prefernce?

[void dragon]

impressive...but that also means Vet has even LESS melee options wich sounds quite annoying

[sharp epoch]

achylys

[void dragon]

that need for damage feels that Veteran would also be immensely limited on main ranged weapon too, since not much can output so much when the melee side is not pulling its weight, or im wrong?

[hidden tree]

i refuse

[sharp epoch]

I think dueling sword is still feasible, vets main purpose is to take out long range specialist, second purpose is to take out gunners. Ogryn, Zealot, and Psyker do way better jobs against melee enemies

But by limited by range weapons yeah you need to be able to take out gunners and specialist, with limited ammo, while juggling not being attacked by whats in front of you

[austere mica]

"dueling sword is still feasible" its the best weapon in the game what

[void dragon]

and then its the fact that VoC and frag nades are the one source of cc the class has in a defensive nature, the class feels that's lacking something to deal with elites too

[sharp epoch]

nah thats mk3 club

[austere mica]

Best human weapon

[sharp epoch]

but ogryns are humans 🤓

[formal ice]

Abhumans

Can't believe you said it wrong

[void dragon]

abhumans are humans with less rights, otherwise i feel the inquisition would burn them instead of (forcibly) hiring them

[hidden tree]

so scandar isnt viable youd say?

[austere mica]

Called it

[hidden tree]

at all?

[sharp epoch]

I mean it doesn't perform as well, sure you can get carried with a bad build and it's "viable"

[austere mica]

Its a sidegrade that utilizes Sunder better

But generally its a bit worse because not PA->Light crusher combo

[hidden tree]

lol

[void dragon]

is Power sword all the veteran melee range?

[sharp epoch]

Dueling sword still works

thats about it

[void dragon]

with such a repertoir of weapons that SUCKS

[sharp epoch]

It's basically, what weapons can kill all types of melee elites reasonably well

Cause that's when vet is forced into melee

[void dragon]

yeah but there is supposedly a "melee" style of veteran, and that means meleran SUCKS

[sharp epoch]

Heavy sword, shovel, chain sword/axe, combat axes all don't do armor that well

[austere mica]

What

Caxe can crusher 2 shot on vet

(without thrust)

[void dragon]

in my experience 4 shot, and not havoc ones

[austere mica]

Well yeah obviously but its not bad at armor

[void dragon]

same coudl be said for shovel, 2 tapping normal crushers

[sharp epoch]

Don't they animation lock you?

[austere mica]

1 tapping

[austere mica]

On what

[void dragon]

shovels? a little

[sharp epoch]

The chain axe/sword?

[austere mica]

Yes

A lot

[void dragon]

chainW yeah, and the best damage is at the end

wich sucks

[sharp epoch]

That'll pretty much get you killed in a havoc

[austere mica]

I wasn't advocating for a chain weapon

[void dragon]

neither me, want them buffed

[austere mica]

I think 1h chainsword is fine

best trash clear in the game for mid elites

[calm shard]

I would vote 1h chainsword as the worst melee in the game personally

It has "the best trash clear in the game" until a single rager is in the horde

and then it falls off a cliff

[sharp epoch]

On zealot maybe, vet doesn't have that good sustain or tdr to fight like that

[austere mica]

Correct

[tall torrent]

Not in havoc

[austere mica]

I said that

Or acknowledged it

[sharp epoch]

Out for blood is really only good with like ranged or grenades, you already regen 5% on melee kills with other classes

[void dragon]

veteran in general doesnt really buff melee combat that well, and it makes melee weapons show their worse performance

[austere mica]

Now you regen 10%

[sharp epoch]

It's meh

[void dragon]

and crushers erase all of it

on a poke

[calm shard]

yeah but that makes you regen 10 on melee kills

You'll see Zealots that aren't running crit builds spend a talent point on Blood Redemption

Which makes only their melee kills restore 7.5% toughness instead of 5%

Out For Blood is 5% toughness for literally any kill you get for any reason

[tall torrent]

Blood redemption got buffed I think

[austere mica]

10%, they buffed blood redemption to 100%

[calm shard]

oh

well point still stands

[austere mica]

Yep

(we are going to respectfully ignore Stalwart)

[calm shard]

please understand that I do not play zealot

[void dragon]

not your fault, i get it, i tried playing zealot and it was not a long lasting good experience

[austere mica]

Zealot's fun

Absolute monkey mode class

[tall torrent]

Zealot is the gifted class

[calm shard]

I only play Zealot occasionally and as a Martyrdom build when I get a lot of bad Zealot teammates and start wondering "Is Zealot really the best class in the game?".

[austere mica]

Just unleash yourself upon the enemy and wake up at a finished mission

[calm shard]

Then caxe martydrom build and yes

Yes it is the best class in the game

[void dragon]

fitting considering how i dont enjoy playing op stuff (or stuff with a single build/combat style)

[sharp epoch]

Zealot is pretty easy to play, the only thing that needs some skill is the throwing knives

[calm shard]

It is the best, and I do not like playing it

Even if martyrdom zealot is strictly speaking kind of similar to gun psyker

[tall torrent]

What’s similar lol

Unlike gun psyker, martyr zealot is indestructible

[calm shard]

Having zero HP and absurdly high damage boosts

[sharp epoch]

I think ogryns a tad stronger than zealot atm

[calm shard]

Zealot does get that 2nd chance

Which is L A M E

[tall torrent]

In a team context yes
In a solo/duo context not really

[calm shard]

They should just explode on the spot if they get hit

[austere mica]

Zero hp and 5% toughness damage taken

[calm shard]

The way it was meant to be

yeah lol

[austere mica]

No I mean total

[calm shard]

The indestructibility is what turns me off because I feel less punished for bad play

[austere mica]

If you stack all your DR

[sharp epoch]

Well zealots stealth breaks the game so yeah, you can straight up cheese h40s

[tall torrent]

Nah u don’t need stealth to be absurdly strong in solo/duo

Stealth is just cheesing

[austere mica]

We politely ignore stealth for class balance contexts

Its its own pile of bullshit

[calm shard]

Doesn't veteran stealth do this but better in every way

[tall torrent]

Zealot’s core kit is insanely busted

[calm shard]

Since you also get movespeed to further fuck enemy spawns

[tall torrent]

Veteran stealth is better than zealot stealth in team context but worse in solo/duo

[sharp epoch]

Veteran is harder to regen

[austere mica]

And its longer

and Low Profile

[calm shard]

Oh right Zealot doesn't have cooldowns

forgor

[sharp epoch]

Low profile doesnt work when theres not teammates nearby

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/moon-knight-moon-knight-marvel-gif-25255244

[void dragon]

I dream of a day when i will have fun using zealot, but its too boring and broken for that day be near us

[calm shard]

I just don't think their abilities are very interesting even beyond them being overpowered

press button to hit faster

press button to be invincible (and stand there looking like an idiot)

press button to sneaky and hit hard

of course Psyker presses button to hit hard but they gotta work for it

[void dragon]

except for smite, but smite should def be a electro shotgun instead of teh aberration we have now

[sharp epoch]

I feel like thats all abilities, ogryn literally has the hit faster, taunt, and shoot faster

[calm shard]

yeah but you see those aren't zealot abilities

which means they're appealing

[sharp epoch]

😭

[void dragon]

funny part of ogryn ults is that you can actually mix some thme of a build with each skill, grenadier-taunt; Leman Russ tank-Gunner; Charger-infinite ammo kekback

i dont think there is synergy in the kestones of the zealot, all of them is "damage and some plus"

[sharp epoch]

Ogryn's talent tree is very streamlined, like the top is organized where every build wants to take those nodes basically in the middle, then past the abilities you just pick 1 and go straight down to the keystones

then you have more than enough points to branch out a little to get some good nodes

and get a bunch of nodes on your keystone

[calm shard]

It's a very good talent tree that encourages a lot of variety

[void dragon]

Speaking of that start, I feel the issue is we lack some changes on those that are about coherency but not as good as the middle options, would be nice to have one that gives Toughness to allies on a CD when killing the an elite

But in general it feels super flexible to make builds

[hollow ibex]

And Redditors are like vet tree is fine!!

[sharp epoch]

If you want that you can take Confirmed Kill and Born Leader for some shitty team toughness regen

[void dragon]

This again? How many times we have to agree with the obvious: Redditors are dumber than ogryn

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-true-nodding-gif-13973817878387504960

[void dragon]

It would be fitting for the theme of the big slab protecting lil humies

[sharp epoch]

Your team gets like 1.5 toughness for one elite kill 😃 👍

And 3.0 toughness over 10 seconds

[hollow ibex]

Stonks

[calm shard]

tbf this does stack with every elite/specialist you kill

If you're actually killing shit as vet it really stacks up

[sharp epoch]

It doesn't stack anymore where your regening that 20% multiple times, it just stacks the time and only up to like 3 times or something

its a shadow of its former self

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-chat-xd-twice-momo-gif-24754494

[serene bough]

I dont like this gif

[loud belfry]

[tough tiger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914161923334214/1351631649372246066/Warhammer40000_Darktide2025-03-1818-45-39-Trim-ezgif.com-optimize_online-video-cutter.com.gif

https://tenor.com/view/bvndit-dead-chat-dead-group-chat-lol-gif-26075659

[stoic sentinel]

Just bought the game is it really dead?

[loud belfry]

no

this chat was tho

[stoic sentinel]

Ok

Oh I see

[loud belfry]

mostly cuz the regulars were/are in the other class chats

[craggy goblet]

oof

[tough tiger]

@loud belfry plesse revive chat with more kpop gifs

[loud belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/koolaboi-gif-18582082

[errant carbon]

Regulars rotate through Zealot chat and then get banned

[narrow frost]

yeah

[loud belfry]

dats some good shit

[narrow frost]

thats what I would've did

[errant carbon]

I'm surprised you didn't just get 2014'ed

[loud belfry]

i wonder if using the reconnect mod as soon as this starts happening is a good strategy sometimes

[narrow frost]

it is

but I don't use it

[junior grail]

Any advice on a Marksman Focus build?

[frank basin]

I have marksman focus recon meme

[junior grail]

Recon benefit from Marksman Focus?

[frank basin]

No recoil and shoot like laser with lowest spread with ADS

Generate source from either chaff trash or non-carapace target.

[grand perch]

recon hardly benefits from MMF

horrible finesse modifier

[regal belfry]

semi auto rifles have good modifier

[frank basin]

The mmf would counter it

It sadly need momentum stack to get decent

Or fair enough

I think

[hollow ibex]

MMF sucks with recon las. End of story.

[faint beacon]

Any Autogun type minus braced and like maybe Infantry Las benefit from MMF

thats about it

Shredder Auto also benefits from it

[gilded wraith]

How's laspistol looking in havoc?

[grand perch]

it really doesnt

recon has a finesse modifier of about 1.3

you get 75% of a 30% increase on top at full 15 stacks

[frank basin]

Yeah 30% headshot damage

[grand perch]

#veteran-class message

thats is almost nothing

and youre sacrificing FT bonus damage going down there

[frank basin]

1.5x headshot damage

Did I hear someone bring recon to havoc?

[hollow ibex]

only dumbasses bring recon with MMF to havoc

[frank basin]

Unconventional: specialist recon

Full auto mk 4 lasfantry then

[void dragon]

Recon is ALSO bad on Havoc? why i must learn this things when i want to invest on veteran but everything seems to suck

[grand perch]

its not

its just bad with MMF

[void dragon]

Lasagna sounded like recon was terrible for that difficulty

[frank basin]

What?

[grizzled pebble]

I use recon in havoc

I dunno what mmf mean

[frank basin]

Marksman focus

The keystone on left side

[grizzled pebble]

I run keystone less

[frank basin]

As I do too

One my main loadout

Braced autogun and recon usage

+auto gun infantry

[void dragon]

Marksman focus really feels quite hard to use, idk if its just because i suck at clicking heads

[frank basin]

Mmf primary someone click head a a lot

Recon give you just click hold

If you can’t score headshot

Just spray and pray

For better damage output, vrak inf autogun but has high recoil kick on continue firing

[void dragon]

Been trying both meta and non meta builds on H40 enemies and my GOD its a world of difference, your survivability skyrocket with frag nades, even my crappy stealth shredder gun build can kill a pack of crushers with them with no invi used because of the bleed and cc, and yeah recon lasgun slaps while Heavy blade doesnt put enough work.

[frank basin]

Did you just test yourself recon on havoc?

[void dragon]

yeah, why?

im not too high on it, just a 22

[faint beacon]

The recon with MMF is such a miniscule increase that there's not much worth taking over FT or just Keystoneless

64 jumping to like what 70

on a High DPS Gun, its not a massive jump

[frank basin]

Oh okay

[void dragon]

i can test it with a mod on h40, and recon holds fairly well on damage, same for plasma, but that was expected

[rocky jacinth]

MMF in general is easy just not very impactful.
Funny thing is how it conflicts with Infernus, can't get headshot kills if they burn to death.

[void dragon]

im not using MMF btw, i honestly hate that keystone

[frank basin]

I didn’t like any keystone on veteran I want t keystone work like ogryn gunlugger

Look the art panel on left side veteran talents it’s literally machine gunner

Why it’s mmf?

[void dragon]

honestly the ogryn keystones always felt like mini playstiles to match with the skills, gunner runner, taunt bully, stuff like that

most of the other classes keystones are...boring

[frank basin]

Psyker is alright

Zealot is feel old now

Veteran need changes but let see how many agree replace mmf to something else

Because fs don’t like piss someone off by replacing mmf

Unless is minority number population

[rocky jacinth]

Vet just needs a rework to make all gun a viable playstyle, as it stands it's the shout n frags guy

[void dragon]

psyker just needs to remake smite and it would be perfect
zealot needs to have more keystones than "damage and something"
veteran needs real identities on its tree, all feels like a missmatched mess

[rocky jacinth]

mostly there for yellow toughness and ammo aura

[void dragon]

all veteran feels that in its core is gunning...and nades, grenades feel quite important part of the vet cc toolkit, and it SUCKS that kraks dont push enemies when a flipping crusher blows apart

[rocky jacinth]

i guess psyker suffers the same problem with every build taking psykinetic's aura and zealot having garbage nodes going to all auras except left

yeah gunning should be the core, or at least if you go left side but it's a joke in comparison with grabbing shout

you could argue that damage maxxing with exec and mmf is viable as the second vet but you could instead have TWO shout and not cannibalize on cooldown reduction from tactical awareness

[void dragon]

THE issue is that frags feel like the one tool veteran has to stop a horde of enemies from just swarm him, i dont think he has any other tool that help him stay alive as much outside of shout (another reason why shout is so good)

[rocky jacinth]

yep, and I'm starting to feel like ogryn is a better special sniper now too since they can just scoot around on their ass and horde mobs go flying while they pop heads

so vet is even more relegated to shouts n nades

[junior grail]

Up until they change Smoke grenades to suppress and confuse all enemies for a short duration

[void dragon]

smoke nades need to supress on direct hit and krags needs their cc shockwave to remain equal when sticking (damage one can be the same)

[junior grail]

Krak that with bigger stagger aoe would be fun

Should krak "homing" be removed?

[rocky jacinth]

make kraks impact nades with a conical blast

no homing

[junior grail]

I don't mind the kraks being sticky but I prefer them requiring more skill to land instead of them magically flying to the enemy

In exchange, get rewarded with a powerful small aoe high damage with medium-large aoe knockback

[void dragon]

dont think so, when they dont stick they do a cc aoe just fine, simply dont remove it when they are blowing a crusher, if an ogryn giant is exploding near you and its arm fall on you, you should feel it and fall to the floor like a civilized heretic

also, why stealth has 4 sub nodes? just make one be baseline! its basic perk tree symmetry!

[junior grail]

Stealth really needs to have the damage boost by default

[rocky jacinth]

just remove it I say

replace with something useful that doesn't screw over your teammates

[junior grail]

Medic Ability

Unlikely but imagine haha

[void dragon]

stealth is not the problem, the capacity to break to hunt down uncontested that gunner army or bomber squad is valuable and good, bad players can be granted the best skill to help the team and they will still grief

[rocky jacinth]

ah yes best skill

[honest pine]

Am I the only person having my screen go almost completely black when I use vet's stealth

[junior grail]

If they somehow change Infiltrate to allow Vet to walk through enemies during the ability...

[junior grail]

You checked with visual options like bloom?

[rocky jacinth]

I'd still hate it because it aggro dumps, it's not very reliable in a teamwork sense

same goes for zealot stealth

best way to give your buddies a quick 180 crusher surprise

[junior grail]

What MIGHT be good is if Infiltrate does the stagger on use of ability as well as end

I imagine the heretics be spooked by the Vet disappearing as well as reappeating

[void dragon]

take it this way, you can have some extra crushers on your plate now or deal with constant bombardment of tox bombers for the entirety of the fight with the promise that the veteran will toss some nades your way when he finished cookin those head tossing jerks

[honest pine]

probably is something fucked with visual settings

the grey effect of the last wound thing also is way too dark

this is specifically on the mortis trial map too

one of them at lesat

least

would be nice if I could just like

turn off screen effects

[junior grail]

There are mods for that I believe

[rocky jacinth]

ooooor you can shout, whip out your plasma gun and pop the bombers from where you stand with the added bonus that the crushers are now reeling on the floor and everybody has yellow

I'm all for nerfing shout into the ground but stealth in general is incredibly disruptive

[void dragon]

ew piss toughness (i know, its super good for a reason, best defensive skill on the class and best ability in game)

[rocky jacinth]

it was annoying in vermintide too, shade kind of made up for it with GIGA DAMAGE but darktide doesn't really have that to compensate

[junior grail]

What if Infiltrate allows Vet to shoot during the ability?

Or a node allows that

[honest pine]

What if infiltrate did literally anything like zealot's stealth ability

[rocky jacinth]

in my opinion? remove smoke grenade and infiltrate, make smoke grenade the third ability like ranger bardin and the sub nodes buff the whole team

replace smokes with uhhhhhhh

arbites shock grenades or something

[junior grail]

Does anyone play auras other than Survivalist?

[gritty mural]

hmm. if only there was a class with a grenade that stuns enemies?

[junior grail]

I feel like if they made all auras involve ammo conservation then they'd be more used

Make them conditional ammo returns, like one on melee kills, ranged kills, suppression etc

Just a thought

[sharp epoch]

Meh, ammo just needs to relooked at it's weird how psyker has essentially infinite ammo with decent weapons while gun focused builds struggle with having ammo

[rocky jacinth]

i agree, havoc also highlights the problems with the ammo system

more enemies than ever with more hp and you only get like 20% of the ammo

[junior grail]

Unless we have truly infinite ammo weapons haha

VT2 had the Dwarven flamethrower and Twin energy Pistols iirc

[pseudo fiber]

I believe psykers also get reduced quelling in havoc but it's still infinite ammo

[sharp epoch]

I really think survivalist should just be baked into vets kit so they have "infinite ammo" as the ranged gun class of the game, and also remove the cooldown of survivalist

[pseudo fiber]

They could reduce it a little old survivalist was kinda really strong hahah

[sharp epoch]

Making it proc for just kills with ranged weapons would be fine

elite/special kills

[rocky jacinth]

it should work off something other than elite/special kills since it makes ammo management still trivial in havoc but a pain in lower difficulties

or just remove it completely and add a different ammo management system entirely

[sharp epoch]

what if they make it cod scavenger perk 😭

[placid portal]

Movement Aura bc I am stingy for 10% melee boost

[sharp epoch]

gotta pick it off the bodies

[rocky jacinth]

honestly regarding gun builds, i kind of just want to stroke my ego and be rewarded for clicking heads good

there's no reward to the effort right now

[pseudo fiber]

Marksmans focus?

[grand perch]

Imagine if the 10% rending subnode at 10 stacks of MMF got changed to 100% rending

Suddenly armour obliterating ilas

[junior grail]

If I were to play Revolver Vet, can I get by without Survivalist?

[grand perch]

Ofc, except in havoc

[junior grail]

Even 50% would be insane

[grand perch]

Not much more insane than what plasma already does without that rending

[reef vine]

Wild that I've never visited this channel before and came to complain about how lackluster marksmans focus is, only to see it already being discussed.

I pretty much just run it with the hammer fan revolver for that better gunslinger vibe.

But the issues are obvious.

[dry cloak]

i run mmf with vigil auto

and or bolter

[reef vine]

If they're worried about it being too overpowered if you can gain stacks while moving (which is bs for many reasons) then I would just suggest that they make it so the headshot stack decay pause gets refreshed even while moving.

So you build stacks with headshots while standing still, and then keep them up while moving.

[odd sparrow]

I mean its fine rn. But the only really good use cases are ilas and autoguns

[dry cloak]

shredder autopistol with exestance

works suprisingly well

and mmf

[odd sparrow]

The pause is quite long, 3 secs on headshot, 6 on headshot kill IIRC

[reef vine]

The problem is having to pause, line up a headshot, and then move for 3-6 seconds, then stop and do it on repeat. Meanwhile your team has already killed whatever it is because they don't need to care about standing still or getting headshots to keep their buffs active.

[odd sparrow]

The problem is also that mmf doesnt fit the breakpoints for many guns and it only really benefits weapons with high finesse multipliers

[pseudo fiber]

I use mmf with helbore to hit 1 hit crusher breapounts

[reef vine]

It's more reasonable when you're at an arena point, but most of the game you're running around with a worthless perk.

[odd sparrow]

With automatic weapons you can refill your stacks almost instantly when trash mobs appear by just shooting at head height

[reef vine]

I almost exclusively use revolvers.

All the full autos bore me.

[odd sparrow]

Thats fair. It is criminal how bad mmf is on actual precision weapons

[reef vine]

Did try both the hammer fan revolver, mmf, and the damage dealer perk thing in the mortis trials. Land enough crits and headshots and just get lucky and you can rapid fire like 15 shots before needing to reload. Granted the recoil continues to build ridiculously.

[grand perch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1355213781214691339/mass.mp4?ex=68008070&is=67ff2ef0&hm=f542564ce13f4b56d5b28ebafb7ed530a78841d38beaf4c3f3b83b4a6fb975fc&

[reef vine]

yee

[jolly birch]

Anyone got a way to make the "kill 500 dudes with krak grenades" penance a bit more bearable?

[thick needle]

Grenade maxing build

Oh wait the krak one right

[reef vine]

300 kills in myself, I've been recommended to do it on the armored trash modifier.

don't remember what it's called

[pseudo fiber]

Moebian 21st

[reef vine]

Or if it can be a modifier in normal missions.

[thick needle]

Iirc you can throw the kraks at basically any Scab unit and it counts as armored

[reef vine]

Yeah, that.

[pseudo fiber]

Which is back in the havoc rotation right now

[jolly birch]

that much is clear, and i guess i could try and get lucky in Mortis Trials and get infinite ogryns, cause then i can get indulgences to get even more grenades

[reef vine]

I've yet to play havoc.

[thick needle]

And when I say any scab unit, I think the basic shooters count too

[jolly birch]

Oh, I could get the mortis trial round where it just spawns a million armored groaners

I feel like that comes up pretty often

I think i got up to 350 kills last i checked, glad i asked here, I thought it only counted for things it'd magnet onto

[reef vine]

Any black armor iirc

[honest pine]

fishing for death dealer in mortis trials just cause i wanna try it with bolter for once zzz

[jolly birch]

oh i still have the smoke grenade penance too

[honest pine]

mortis trials is decent for getting that

lots of enemies

[jolly birch]

throw one million grenades at my feet in mortis trials

[honest pine]

pretty much

though I think it only counts if they're caught in the initial poof

[jolly birch]

I'm sure these filler penances would be way better if I was trying to farm for all the other penances while I was doing it, but i completed those ones when they came out

[honest pine]

but mortis lets you make smoke grenades actually useful

[reef vine]

I still have the three penances for the right side. Trying to get the krak grenade done first, as it's the only other one.

[jolly birch]

The one that I thought would do me in was getting 2500 kills with max stacks of marksman

[honest pine]

its easier than you'd expect

[jolly birch]

That's an abysmal penance

[honest pine]

I just crabwalked everywhere with recon las and hotshot perk

[reef vine]

pretty much, yeah

[jolly birch]

I took a lawbringer shotgun and mowed down hordes with the special shot

I wasn't actually expecting it to be such effective horde clear, actually, but i mostly just abused the effect of "getting a headshot kill makes stacks not go down for 6 seconds" and started blasting

It just took like 3 days, cause i didn't think of the crabwalking thing lmao

[reef vine]

On a tangent, I wish there was a semi-auto kinetic rifle with a bayonet.

[jolly birch]

A stub rifle would go hard

i do really like the charged bash on the vigilant autorifle at least

Raise it up over your head, smack em with the stock

Love doing that with the double barrel too

[calm shard]

you know smoke grenades disable most special enemies ontop of ranged enemies right

[jolly birch]

it's mostly seen as a weaker psyker bubble, especially since it doesn't stop you from getting shot if you pop one at your feet while getting shot at

[calm shard]

it's almost directly better than psyker bubble

if it had the toughness regen it would be better straight up

[jolly birch]

I'll have to try it out more, but i haven't had very much success with it

I'm also pretty sure the smoke doesn't stop a sniper from shooting you

[calm shard]

the way it works is that enemies cannot draw LoS for ranged attacks into, through, or out of the smokes radius

iirc it's 5.5 meters

and that is any ranged attack so it works on flamers, and trappers

doesn't work on bombers though which is a leg up that dome gets

[pseudo fiber]

Because it doesn't have a healthbar

[calm shard]

also works on dogs for some reason

https://imgur.com/a/ZN2kqij

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/overwatch-mcree-high-noon-its-high-noon-blizzard-gif-13496300

[jolly birch]

My theory for using it was to drop one at your feet in a big melee fight to make it so you don't have to deal with shooters

[calm shard]

it also has a similar quirk to ogryn taunt but not quite as consistent where ranged enemies see the smoke as an obstruction

so they'll walk up to you into the smoke to try and get LoS to shoot at you

https://imgur.com/a/gmfQviy

[jolly birch]

Yeah I'll have to try it out sometime

At least till I'm done with veteran penances

[calm shard]

also and htis is mostly relevant for havoc

while getting a clip to show that enemies can't draw LoS through smoke either even if you're not inside of it

https://imgur.com/a/6S5LomN

I also figured out that if you become obscured by smoke in the middle of gun twin trying to shoot you they just...freeze

I have no idea why

[pseudo fiber]

Rodin got a lobotomy :(

[frank basin]

okay they got smoke details

i thought those twin has eyes of ra bullshit

forgot rodin is ranged unit

[honest pine]

"diasble"

minorly inconvenience

9/10 specials have to be in melee range to do anything

and the ones that don't can just be headshot

most enemies aren't static but are hording towards you

[tame lodge]

9/10
Looks inside
3

Actually 2

Dogs can jump at you outside of your melee range

[gaunt hare]

does late joining improve or hinder your chances of getting the take no melee damage penance?

[elder garden]

Next update wants to be for veteran

[hidden tree]

So combat axes were nerfed awhile back. Did they ever rebuff them or revert the nerfs?

[tame lodge]

Buffing the current Combat Axes would break the game

Achlys does need some tune ups though

[mossy monolith]

whats a good weapon to use, powersword or chainsword, why should i use one over the other?

[tame lodge]

Chainsword is pretty good against hordes and that's pretty much it

Power Sword 6 is good against everything but doesn't have the best dodges

[mossy monolith]

and its mark 13 chainsword

[tame lodge]

If you really want to experience a good Chainsword gameplay
Then play Chainsword zealot

[tame lodge]

Shred and Wrath so you can spam lights ad infinitum

[mossy monolith]

oh its fun as hell, the 2 handed one?
i am using relic sword cus its fun

[tame lodge]

No no the 1h Chainsword

[mossy monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/uni-flower-running-walking-maxwell-gif-7997726250022947148

[tame lodge]

Xiiig might be one of the most op weapons on Zealot

It's just the competition that shadows it

[mossy monolith]

of course

[heavy rover]

Looks like moebian 21st is back on the menu

[hidden tree]

Dude scandar needs tune ups

[tame lodge]

(combat axes)

[hidden tree]

Chain can kill heavies with bloodletter relatively fast. I think if it had slaughter it'd be perfect

[hidden tree]

Oh yea

[trim badger]

Orange + 21st = undying horde

[thorn lark]

combat axes were never nerfed

where did you read that

[grand perch]

bromentum was nerfed at some point, which is a nerf for caxes basically

[thorn lark]

nope

they changed how the first version of bm was refreshed, which was basically a buff

then with P13 it became what it is now

[elder garden]

ha no we only get debuffs

we dont get any thing new

[hidden tree]

Like a year ago when they made it have less cleave. I used to main it on vet then I stopped playing cuz they nerfed it. I'll look for the exact patch notes to show

[thorn lark]

no, they changed how bm worked

[elder garden]

vets need a buff big time and soem good weapons that only vets can use like a mnetla gun or hell gu nor even a dam long las would be nice

[thorn lark]

and how bm works now is kinda obscene

[pseudo fiber]

No long las

[trim badger]

All classes (except Ogryn) need buffs in 50% of their stuff and nerf for their broken stuff

[hidden tree]

1h chainsword and scandar power sword buff i beg

[hidden tree]

Yea that

[thorn lark]

it's a buff

[hidden tree]

Really?

[thorn lark]

an insane one

yeah but

there is a but

[hidden tree]

So i should've never stopped using antax i- ofc there is a but

[thorn lark]

you need to reach the bps for it to work

[hidden tree]

Bruh

[thorn lark]

rashad is better on vet tbh

[hidden tree]

Yea I'll use any tbh

So how do I reach the bps

And can it be done at hav 40

[thorn lark]

@tall torrent

[hidden tree]

Oh god

Poor guy

[thorn lark]

as for havoc, I have no idea what the perks are

[hidden tree]

I mean I'll figure it out eventually but the constructive criticism i get here makes that process alot faster

[thorn lark]

but iirc, flak unarmored with bm +ht gives you nice bps against bruisers

[faint beacon]

Havoc current and especially seeing M21st is being added

Don’t bother with any melee unless it’s Power Sword

[thorn lark]

but i think some people prefers carapace + unarmored or flak

[hidden tree]

Pain and suffering

[thorn lark]

taxe

[faint beacon]

Caxe falls off from rampaging

[thorn lark]

[faint beacon]

And 21st rampaging will make it even more noticeable

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/gurlyes-gif-9514045

[pseudo fiber]

Swing it at one and it bounces off

[gilded wraith]

Where should I stop on right tree with power sword? Do I need Trench Fighter? Weapon Specialist?

[tall torrent]

they're good to have yea

[grand perch]

Ws is quite nice on psword to get some dodge distance which is severely lacks

trench fighter is always excellent to have as well

[serene bough]

Ye

Trench fighter is always nice for any weapon

[gilded wraith]

Thanks!

[void dragon]

Sorry to bother but can you elaborate on that? I have used the gun on a onslaught grenadier build with FocusT and it has performed well but that sounds interesting

Also, should stealth give a strong toughness overtime regen instead of doing a burst to fill it at the start? Since that would help it more to get in range, make use of the suppression, and fight in CqC as that side of the perk tree suggests it should help to do

[tall torrent]

Combat axe doesn’t scale as good as power sword in current havoc

[dry cloak]

i will just give you a build okay?

[void dragon]

Is there any other weapon that can serve as good melee for the vet nowadays? Specially with moebian coming to get us

[dry cloak]

thats if gameslantern loads

it may not be 1for1 with what i use

@void dragon you have 5 mins to go on vc i will just show it to you

if yes im on strike party

[void dragon]

I don't think you can hear me?

[dry cloak]

yes i cant

[void dragon]

My mic seems to have issues

[dry cloak]

you got the whole thing?

[void dragon]

Yeah

[dry cloak]

then have fun

[void dragon]

Thanks, sorry my mic was acting dumb

[queen sky]

is Survivalist worth losing Leave No One Behind and Grenade Tinkerer?

[void dragon]

Survivalist is one of those game breaking things in vet, it's not worth trading for anything, you can skip it but it would be at your own peril

[queen sky]

how miserable, i really really love my massive kraks

throw both every time a monstrosity spawns

[unreal nova]

Former yes, latter not so but kraks so up to you.

[void dragon]

Remember that the best option doesn't have to be the only option, I have ran builds with no survivalist and no frag nades and still managed some wins

And if I can, I'm sure many others can

[normal bay]

Survivalist scales well on higher diffs. So it can depend what difficulty you play at

[tall torrent]

[queen sky]

gotcha, ty

[void dragon]

You laughter just make me sad even before hearing the answer

[tall torrent]

[queen sky]

is chainsword not a good option also?

[void dragon]

Your laughter is also an eco
Eco
Eco

[tall torrent]

It’s not very good in its current state

It’s good at 1 thing and not good in basically everything else

[queen sky]

frags are better than kraks?

[hollow ibex]

you should leave behind leave no one behind.

ass

[queen sky]

i thought it was good at light spam for horde clearing and special for precision removal?

[void dragon]

They are good universalist ones, not only can serve as anti horde, they provide cc against a lot of enemies, something that kraks struggle even if they make bulwarks a joke

[normal bay]

Removing groups of armoured enemies is important with randoms lol

Let the kraks fly

[queen sky]

The bleed stacks are enough to remove ragers and crushers?

[void dragon]

I'm just complaining that the kraks knock back is removed when it sticks to its target, it should still deal cc

[junior grail]

Uncanny rending helps

[hollow ibex]

2 frags for ragers. crushers are resistant but will get knocked

[tall torrent]

Removal of what

[void dragon]

Crushers you will need some form of brittleness or rending

But the fact that frags knock them to the floor is a big opening

[queen sky]

Crushers, ragers, etc.

Kind of beefy things below the level of Ogyrn enemies

[tall torrent]

Sorry chainsword takes more than 2 full saw-rip heavy attacks to kill a single crusher

[queen sky]

Rip

[blissful fractal]

i need them to add a feffin commissar outfit, like the OLD look of the commissar, golden tassels on the chest and all

[tall torrent]

It’s just not good

It folds instantly against any kind of mixed horde

[void dragon]

I cry chain weapons are really not there

[queen sky]

Hm, i guess i heard that chainswords are pretty good even if they're not The Best

A shame

[hollow ibex]

chain weapons in general are pretty ass rn

[void dragon]

They are good fodder sweepers, but against stronger stuff they don't perform as well

[junior grail]

Chainaxe seems fine

[queen sky]

What's the best anti-monstrosity option for Veteran apart from Krak spam?

[void dragon]

Chaxe single target power is nice, but the horde management is a chore for it

[junior grail]

Infernus Rending spam

[queen sky]

Ahh ty

[hollow ibex]

nah

bolter

[junior grail]

Yea that's what I use it for mostly

[tall torrent]

Combat axe III
Power sword VI
Duelling sword IV
Knife III & VI

[fervent quest]

Specifically the energized push stab for the power sword mark 6

[void dragon]

Push attack of that PS is quite good on weakspot hit

[tall torrent]

Power sword is higher burst but lower sustain

[queen sky]

Thanks

Not so much the guns?

I have noticed Plasma Gun is a bit disappointing against monstrosities