veteran-class

[tropic notch]

You should be mulching hoards with brutal momentum

[hollow ibex]

Well it doesn’t one shot four bruisers in a single swing. So it’s not actually better than axe, sorry.

[tropic notch]

Shoutout to Cole and path for teaching me the importance of unarmored

[sharp epoch]

bm falls off when you cant hit that one shot breakpoint though

i notice that on havoc it starts bouncing off people

[umbral scaffold]

I am learning too the path of chain sword @hollow trail

[hollow ibex]

Chsword prob falls off even harder in havoc tbh

[sharp epoch]

might be better than combat axe if it doesnt rely on breakpoints

but you still need reliable anti armor which chainsword isnt

[hollow ibex]

Yeah either way PS is king for vet

Born inside and outside of havoc

[tropic notch]

A piety zealot might make it useable

[hollow ibex]

Zealot can make any melee weapon work

[tropic notch]

It is a crit weapon after all

[nocturne rock]

ive been using a chainsword and a bolter but i have yet to go on much higher difficulties

[tropic notch]

[stiff sparrow]

Anyone awake that knows

If I want to complete the "Be Methodical" penance, should I take the nod that allows teammates to see the highlighted enemies?

Does them killing them for me refresh Vally Fire?

[tropic notch]

Shock maul

[hollow ibex]

Nope. No refresh

[stiff sparrow]

Damn. Thank you for answering.

[hollow ibex]

Tbf smaul isn’t bad even on vet. I just hate it

[stiff sparrow]

Thanks

[tropic notch]

Tbh shock maul is probably the best on zealot lol

[faint beacon]

Smaul is meh

its why you dont see many use it

[errant carbon]

This game has enough "very good" to "blatantly overpowered" weapons that "pretty okay, really not bad, entirely viable" feels weak

[hollow ibex]

Well at least smaul has the benefit of not needing melee talents

But I just hate how the weapon feels

[errant carbon]

Calling a weapon "usable" rn is to damn with faint praise

[hollow ibex]

True

Esp on vet

You really need everything you can get to be competitive against literally every other class

[tame lodge]

Crazy that Smaul is mid when it beats on everything but monstrosities

[faint beacon]

And Ogryns

[tame lodge]

It can proc Skullcrusher

On bulwarks and shit

Reliably

[sharp epoch]

zealot is better at all melee weapons 🙄

[lilac stump]

I really don't get how to make a ranged build with the veteran. Like I want to take focus, but you read through it and it looks like it's pretty much pointless.

[hollow ibex]

Wrong. Not power sword.

[sharp epoch]

if zealot had powersword that too

[hollow ibex]

There’s only a few weapons it’s worth it on, and even then you’ll want to use melee often

[sharp epoch]

vet ranged only build is dead at higher difficulties melee vet is the only way

[lilac stump]

I just wanted to make a sniper with hellbore 😦

[hollow ibex]

You can do that

It’ll just be annoying to play

It’s not weak though

[sharp epoch]

well take the weapon swap talent you'll need it

[hollow ibex]

And exec stance

[errant carbon]

Zealot has big power sword

Which is better cause it's big

[lilac stump]

So basically what any person would assume one of the "main" veteran way to specialize (ranged) is just dead in the water or unfun to play ? That's the choice?

[hollow ibex]

Vets more of a hybrid class. You can do pure ranged but it’s typically not ideal

And vet in general has been powercreeped

[lilac stump]

Yeah so basically a less good zealot ?

[hollow ibex]

Not totally true, but yes unless you use power sword

Vet still has better ranged capabilities than zealot tbf

Which is another reason why vet is best played as a hybrid

To beat out other classes, you really need to make use of both slots and your blitz

[lilac stump]

Sure, but you're saying that Veteran builds need to be more focused on Melee than ranged . Feels kinda dumb tbh. At that point why not take a zealot. I can play almost only melee and be good at it.

[hollow ibex]

Well its usually 50/50

Whereas with zealot you can literally do 100 percent melee and easily top frag

Much harder to do that on vet

[lilac stump]

Ok, but why is there no 100% ranged build. Like Focus should not loose all stack because you dare to move and reposition. IT should be another condition. Idk, seems very unfair.

[vale wraith]

It’s not that hard to build stacks

[hollow ibex]

MF is poorly designed and vet tree needs a rework

[vale wraith]

With auto guns and shit

But revolvers and stuff suffer pretty bad from it

[hollow ibex]

And like I said you still can do mostly ranged

Like 80/20

But you’ll still need to use melee at times because most of the combat is cqc and you’ll never have enough ammo to kill all the trash with your gun

[lilac stump]

I wanted to play a hellbore just for the fun of it. I'm pretty sure hellbore is useless with focus.

[vale wraith]

Could use focus fire

[hollow ibex]

I take the other focus with it

Focus target

[vale wraith]

Yeah that is the name

Focus Target is much better with guns like Helbore

[lilac stump]

does focus targets works as far as you can tag it ?

[vale wraith]

Yeah

It’s really good for hitting breakpoints

[lilac stump]

I see so basically kill elite from far, and once you get a horde switch to melee ?

[vale wraith]

Basically yeah

[hollow ibex]

And specialists

[vale wraith]

Still want to switch to gun to kill problematic specials

Which is kinda why helbore sucks compared to something like revolver

Because during melee dance you can just whip out and use revolver in a second while with helbore it’s much more difficult

[lilac stump]

I know, the hellbore is kinda meh animation wise when you switch to it. seems very slow

[vale wraith]

It really kills the weapon for me

Because shit like plasma gun doesn’t have that much pull out time

Why should helbore?

[lilac stump]

so basically I need to take Weapon Swap Speed node withthe hellbore, might make it less painfull

or just use the Bayonnet XD

[vale wraith]

Bayonet is unironically kinda strong, can take out a few lone ragers if they push you

[unreal forge]

i wish the autoguns had better blessings

[vale wraith]

Deathspitter and Dum Dum?

[unreal forge]

blessings in general all feel useless asf on too many weapons

[vale wraith]

They’re incredibly strong

[unreal forge]

those are the only two actual options

[vale wraith]

Stripped down is great too

For havoc anyway

[sharp epoch]

thats the problem with vet, if you wanna play 100% ranged now you go psyker whos actually can win like that and has infinite ammo/cleave, if you wanna be hybrid melee and ranged you go zealot or ogryn which have way more surviabillity

[lilac stump]

I agree veteran should be a small arm specialist in one of his Branches. Like the Ogryn is with Heavy weapons in one of his.

[sharp epoch]

vet really just needs a ranged build that can be self sufficient without having to pull out melee 50% of the time, staff psyker does 90% of their damage as ranged on most games, vet needs to be able to do the same on the hardest difficiulties

[hollow ibex]

This needs to be reworked

[dry cloak]

lets be real a lot of older weapons need a look at

[tame lodge]

Just hit heads

Like I'm not trolling or anything

[dry cloak]

you gan get 10 stacks by shotii horde at head lvl

with 3 bullets

aslong as they kill

[tame lodge]

Spot hits give 3 seconds of movement
Spot kills give 6 seconds

[dry cloak]

yep

that a long time to reposition and start blasting again

[sharp epoch]

they need to change that, make it reward more for precision shots on actual targets shooters/elites not for spamming horde

[lilac stump]

That's great and all, so shoot 4 heads, to get max stat. and if you dare to move because idk, a dog came by or you need to dodge a mutant. You loose everything

[dry cloak]

like you need to get headshot kills for the stacks

[tame lodge]

Nah
Spot hit 3 seconds of movement

Spot kills 6 seconds

It's about hitting heads

[tall torrent]

It’s meh

[sharp epoch]

its already like that but yes headshot kills on non horde enemies, or just headshot hits

but make the reward better

it should give some tdr at the minimum

[tall torrent]

It’s not that

It’s fundamentally a flawed stacking system

[sharp epoch]

also remove the silly losing stacks on movement system, just make it expire over time

[lilac stump]

I see. Still doesn't seem to be good enough imo. Like with an automatic gun or a fast semi auto I can see it work. But with a gun that you need to charge, it's still meh at most

[dry cloak]

so warp siphon for vet?

[sharp epoch]

meh like disrupt destiny or whatever like how all the stacks work

encouraging standing still on a horde shooter is weird

[tall torrent]

Nah, still not good enough

Make it Ogryn’s feel no pain but damage

U just hold stacks by default

Any other approach just means inconsistent breakpoints

On a class that has weapons to build breakpoints for

[sharp epoch]

that might make it like mandatory for some builds

if it adds like x amount of damage that you really cant pass up

maybe the heavy hitter treatment where its just weakspot hits instead of kills so its easy to stack

[tall torrent]

Like what

Shouldn’t a keystone do what the word keystone suggests?

[sharp epoch]

like if its just free 100% more damage

[tall torrent]

It’s not 100% more damage

+%FNS is not +%dmg

[wispy zephyr]

Plus it's not like there isn't already "mandatory" picks, atleast it'd be good then

[manic moon]

what would u guys put on a hellbore for havoc

[sharp epoch]

whatever the normal blessings are already

[faint beacon]

Are we defending the movement system that guts MMF

[manic moon]

not lbessing

[wispy zephyr]

We are not

[manic moon]

perk

[wispy zephyr]

We are talking about changing how you hold the stacks

[tall torrent]

Depends on variant

[manic moon]

the fast one

[tall torrent]

V normally uses unarmored + maniac

[manic moon]

ya i have that

[wispy zephyr]

The crouch slide to keep mmf stacks is kinda nice but I don't think it fixes it

[tall torrent]

But havoc completely messes breakpoints

[manic moon]

thats my problem

not sure if maniac/unarm is still the goto

[tall torrent]

Maniac doesn’t give flamer crit 1hs anymore

[unreal forge]

that marksman keystone for veteran is way too overcomplicated for too little benefit

[tall torrent]

Maybe do unarmored + flak

Maniac does give 2hs for flamer

Up to u

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh

[unreal forge]

meanwhile focus target gives you a huge damage boost just for pointing at things

[manic moon]

im thinking about cara unyielding

[faint beacon]

FT you just have for existing

[manic moon]

since most ppl run dueling sowrd anyways

[unreal forge]

and weapon specialists makes you as good at melee as zealot just for killing 1 thing with your secondary and switching back to melee

[manic moon]

and 2 shot would be okay

[faint beacon]

MMF Can damn well get away with being changed to simply always being static unless you miss weakspots

[wispy zephyr]

Let's not forget the power you get for going no keystone all together

[unreal forge]

i feel like what you get from focus and weapon specialist are still better than whatever you can get from no keystone

[tall torrent]

Depends

Usually yes

[tall torrent]

Without maniac it goes to 3hs flamer

[manic moon]

fuuuuuuck

omg they really have double hellbores dmg

[tall torrent]

2100health

[manic moon]

like flat out

[tall torrent]

Nah

It doesn’t need double

It needs functioning breakpoints and no headshot reliance

Dogshit sight + headshot dependency is a natural disaster

Either give it clear sights or buff its base damage so high that it 1 taps things without headshots

[unreal forge]

it would truly be gamebreaking OP and better than plasma gun if it had an EOTech vro!

[tall torrent]

Nah

[unreal forge]

I know it wouldnt but that's an argument I heard before

[lilac stump]

Agreed, It's like the Ogryn > On hits that it has now, vs Heavy hits dependency it had before

[tall torrent]

If it only had clear sights, plasma still has much better breakpoint economy with far less investment

U have to spec so much to make helbore usable

[unreal forge]

Helbore doesn't really do anything exceptionally other than a great ammo economy. Its specialist-killing capabilities are outdone by Bolters and Revolver

[tall torrent]

Most vet guns need too much spec to be usable

[unreal forge]

combat shotgun comes to mind

still my favorite

[tall torrent]

Combat shotgun has very low spec requirement

Just tac reload + exe stance for the most part

The rest don’t change it on a fundamental level

[unreal forge]

I am not taking exe stance over voc

ever

[tall torrent]

Then it’s just tac reload

1 point spec

[manic moon]

idk removing this dogshit 5 sec wep swithc on hellbore would be a good start

[unreal forge]

I feel like tac reload ain't enough

[tall torrent]

It is enough

[unreal forge]

need the 30% from specialist kill

then it's killing

[tall torrent]

Nah

That’s overspending

[unreal forge]

if I go for focus target there's not much else I want

focus target is super cheap compared to weapon specialist and it's like an executioner's stance that still lets you take VoC

[tall torrent]

It’s 1.25~1.5s

[sharp epoch]

yeah idk why they penalize the "sniper" weapon so much when they have revolver come out in a millisecond and do the same thing

[unreal forge]

feels like 50 seconds

[tall torrent]

Revolver doesn’t do the same thing

Revolver has way better breakpoints lol

Best breakpoint of all guns on veteran

Even better than plasma

[unreal forge]

yeah but it's a 5 shooter and has a pretty bad reload

helbore has a ton of ammo and a better reload

[manic moon]

u got ws to reload it

[sharp epoch]

meh if I wanted to use something like revolver zealot throwing knives are better

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664591642967408640/1320852161265143878/axe.mp4?ex=67f8d42f&is=67f782af&hm=c7b5a11d42ce4172c7f817285bb75221581fb19ce7f13e3c23f8570e58bb125a&

[unreal forge]

zealot throwing knives are better than a lot of things lol

double barrel shotgun outdone by pocket knives

[tame lodge]

(tknife inheriting the blessings for some reason)

[unreal forge]

u need ta chill out

[tall torrent]

It’s just default revolver gameplay

[sharp epoch]

yeah I saw the clip where it had manstopper and oneshotted a line of shotgunnera

[unreal forge]

which speaking of literally what is the point of the DB next to the revolver

[tall torrent]

It has infinite cleave

Can apply bleed

[sharp epoch]

db delete close stuff and yeah its good specifically with weapon specialist because of guaranteed crits

[tall torrent]

Has more stagger, more suppression

Slightly more ammo

[unreal forge]

those sound good on paper but i just cant seem to care about them when playing

[manic moon]

the shotgun with the fire special is nice

[tall torrent]

And kills mixed horde better

[manic moon]

has a nice niche with that suppress

[sharp epoch]

infinite cleave + bleed is just good on and off paper

[tropic notch]

Weapon specialist

[tall torrent]

Revolver kills at most 2 elites per shot

DB shotgun can kill 5-6 per shot in similar situations and could potentially hit way more

[manic moon]

after they implement demote protection for 40 imma grief everyone with hellbore

[tall torrent]

DB shotgun also has less talent spec than revolver

Innate suppression immunity

[tame lodge]

(probably because you just don't care about it)

[tall torrent]

[tame lodge]

[tropic notch]

What would you run on ws revlover?

I know hand cannon

[lilac stump]

Small draft for a hellbore based build. I'm thinking of changing already the toughness and Stamina gain from the keystone to the reload a nade every 60s.

[tame lodge]

Probably Point Blank Handcannon

[sharp epoch]

I'd run surgical or crucian

[tall torrent]

Not worth

[manic moon]

no shock troop and all 3 talent for the tag? why

[tropic notch]

You already get a guaranteed crit

[sharp epoch]

glass cannon build but you got stealth...

[tropic notch]

Huh?

[manic moon]

hand cannon is great

[tall torrent]

Yea, it’s not worth on vet anymore

[faint beacon]

Its great just not worth it on vet

any other class yes

[tall torrent]

After they changed scab rager body to carapace

[tropic notch]

What do you use?

[tall torrent]

There’s no point taking hand cannon unless u play meme

[tall torrent]

Point blank is the strongest crit chance blessing on it

[manic moon]

wut

[tall torrent]

Second blessing up to u

[sharp epoch]

that was a straight targeted vet nerf tbh 😭

[faint beacon]

Point Blank lets you combo your melee with it

[lilac stump]

I mean shock toops fill kinda gimmick when you have ammo packs everywhere pretty much ...

[tall torrent]

Nah it’s a good change

[manic moon]

ye im trying to make it in havoc where you dont

[faint beacon]

It was an incredibly good change mainly cause

before hand

Scab Ragers were absolute fucking jokes

now they're something to consider

[tall torrent]

Before scab rager got carapace armor torso, hand cannon was the easiest way to access crit 1 body shot vs scab rager

After they got carapace torso, 1 body shot scab rager is flat impossible with WS, so it achieves nothing in terms of breakpoints unless u rely on the gun to kill crusher

And it’s a 5r gun that aims to 1 taps things so idk what the point is to spec a blessing into doing smth that actually doesn’t matter

[manic moon]

ye i keep hand cannon mainly for cara

[tall torrent]

Even with hand cannon it’s not enough to crit 1 body shot scab rager

Unless u also run carapace

Which means either no dreg gunner 1hs, or no flamer 1hs

Just not worth

[desert viper]

what do people even use for revolver nowadays

I just run speedload roulette for my convenience

[tall torrent]

Point blank
Run&gun

Unarmored
Maniac

[desert viper]

why run n gun?

[tame lodge]

So what's the alternative

Trickshooter?

RnG?

[lilac stump]

Haven't played havoc much yet... I just got to level 30 yersteday XD

[tame lodge]

Heh internet moment

[tall torrent]

It’s nice quality of life improvement

Less hipfire spread

Instant sprint to fire

[desert viper]

honestly I figured speedload would've been considered over run n gun

[tall torrent]

Not needed cuz weapon specialist reloads it for u

[desert viper]

ah I guess

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664591642967408640/1320852161265143878/axe.mp4?ex=67f8d42f&is=67f782af&hm=c7b5a11d42ce4172c7f817285bb75221581fb19ce7f13e3c23f8570e58bb125a&

[lilac stump]

also I might be wrong but for Shock Trooper to work don't you need to take deadshot and opening salvo ?

[tall torrent]

Surgical is enough

Deadshot is meme

Opening salvo is pure pathing tax

[lilac stump]

make sense.

[desert viper]

ohh I see what you mean with sprinting instantly into shooting

there's no delay

sick

is the caxe bromentum headtaker?

I'm guessing the build doesn't struggle with carapace either because of the krakks

[tall torrent]

Unarmored
Carapace

[desert viper]

I've never not used Rev without carapace dmg on it

[faint beacon]

Rashad deals with Carapace

[tall torrent]

For combat axe III

[faint beacon]

Heavy loop

hit weakspot

drops them very quickly in around 3 hits

[tall torrent]

Although atm there’s not much reason to use anything but a power sword VI on veteran if you’re looking for the best melee

[faint beacon]

Rashad is a choice if you dont play Havoc

[desert viper]

which one is that by name? I forget the numbers

[faint beacon]

the moment you get into havoc

[narrow frost]

rachad

[faint beacon]

just play PS6

[manic moon]

knife is still goated for mobiltiy

[desert viper]

I circle around 3 melees, but powersword for havoc definetly

[desert viper]

thanks ainz

[lilac stump]

@tall torrent Something like that would be more suitable ? (I also changed "Grenadier" for "Leave no One behind")

[manic moon]

i'll absolutely refuse to use run'n'gun on anything tho

[tall torrent]

What weapons

[hollow ibex]

Dropping grenadier for leave no one behind is a bad idea esp with invis

[tall torrent]

It’s good tho

U could substitute it for like, surgical & crucian

But in my experience run&gun is just most reliable

[lilac stump]

Hellbore mainly, Probably will change to something else, because semi auto rifle or fully automatic might even be better.

@hollow ibex Leave no one behind with invis means you can res someone quicker while invisible (that was my logic)

[tall torrent]

Leave no one behind is not worth

[slow spade]

I love build variety UwU

[slow spade]

With bad enough teams, its a 20% speed boost UwU

[tall torrent]

Only if they’re within a certain field of view from player

[slow spade]

Brb 360 fov gaming

[desert viper]

mmm I'd just slap rez speed on curio

I like an extra nade more

then again the mentioned build doesn't have the tax perk

[lilac stump]

On the hellbore my guess woudl be to put surgical and armourbane ?

[tame lodge]

If you're using the 5

Kinda yeah

Otherwise Surgical Weight of Fire

[lilac stump]

IIIa better with weight of fire ?

[tame lodge]

Yeah
Helbore adms are quite high so Armourbane won't be that effective

Or rather not needed

[hollow ibex]

Not worth, having four shredders helps a LOT

In addition to that alternative talent just being trash like path said

[tall torrent]

Surgical + hotshot/weight of fire

[manic moon]

Playing hellbore is like a cliff diving experience

[tall torrent]

Armorbane is not as good as it sounds because of helbore’s weird ADMs

[tall torrent]

It’s a fixed value separate from FOV setting

[slow spade]

Damn 😔

[proven garden]

What about the caxe

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t scale as good in current havoc as power sword VI

[proven garden]

Got it

[tall torrent]

Current havoc wants u to confirm a lot of kills very quickly

And nothing on veteran matches power sword in that

[proven garden]

Ps6 combos are special 3 light loop for horde and special pa 2 light for st?

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1359584813757104208/Screenshot_2025-04-09_134404.png?ex=67f95507&is=67f80387&hm=d0053e6f736ef4cb96ab7ee562abe8c53b6151fb0a1a56a968d3a52c0673d036&

[proven garden]

Ruination wip guide

[fervent quest]

What is "E"

[tall torrent]

Energized

[fervent quest]

Oh gotcha

Wow so you just don't use heavies on Power Sword Mk 6 eh?

[tall torrent]

Not worth in majority of situations

[fervent quest]

[umbral scaffold]

plasma blessings?

[narrow frost]

[hollow ibex]

#veteran-class message

[hollow ibex]

If you want heavies you use Mk III (don’t use Mk III)

[quiet crest]

Query: I don't play veteran much, but a buddy of mine REALLY wants to run combat shotgun. I'm on Mobile at the moment so hunting is a bit of a pain.

What blessings/perks should he run to make his playthrough a little better?

[loud belfry]

is that hk47

[quiet crest]

Response: Negative. This unit won't self destruct if pressed more.

[loud belfry]

check pins

but i already did. this is what the vet guide says

[quiet crest]

Thank you! I will pass this along!

[hollow ibex]

He’s going to have a bad time

[fervent quest]

The "check pins" thing falls a little flat when it links to some one drive thing that doesn't seem to work on mobile

[tame lodge]

Emphasis on No Respite

[loud belfry]

thankfully i am a hero so i did both

[tame lodge]

It stacks up to 140% ranged damage

[tall torrent]

One drive web page is wack
Try downloading as pdf file

[fervent quest]

I'll just download it at home and email it to myself

[radiant adder]

Is bladed momentum any good?

Or is headtaker just better for heavy sword.

[tame lodge]

Not quite

Hsword adms are pretty good across the board (except carapace) so not needed

But when you actually need

You can't proc it

Because you can't normally cleave carapace

[radiant adder]

I just realized that.

[tame lodge]

Unless you go full meme build with a perfect strike Hsword

[radiant adder]

Also wtf is a adm I am just an ogryn.

[tame lodge]

Which isn't as good as deathblow and headtaker

[tame lodge]

Armor Damage Modifier iirc

It's the table of damage thingy

You can use inspect on your inventory and see it

[radiant adder]

A

[tame lodge]

It doesn't paint the full picture but at least it's something

[unreal forge]

playing with helbore and the amount of times my teammates killed a special while I was charging up is frustrating

also playing with chainsword. my teammates would just kill whatever i was about to shred before i could

[hollow ibex]

The canonical chainsword experience

[radiant adder]

I tried the sword out but it don't hit like it do when I use it on my zealot.

I think imma stick to my knife.

[warm idol]

really wish chainswords were better

[slow spade]

let me pay dockets to refuel my chainsword so I can have it always revved UwU

[radiant adder]

Can you make that legible to an ogryn?

[tall torrent]

this is as simplified as it gets

[slow spade]

just use a Rashad and you can safely assume you do at least 80% damage vs everything

the funny moment when a normal axe has better armor pen than my rifle

[hollow ibex]

Higher = more damage against that armor type

[faint beacon]

if its over 100% it then converts into just Damage at about 20%?

Just know you really dont need anything above 100%

[tall torrent]

nah

[slow spade]

it's +0.25% damage per point of rending over 100%

[tall torrent]

the pretense to that is that, if base ≤100%, not much point getting rending and brittleness after TADM hits 100%
if base >100%, rending and brittleness simply do not matter

ex: rashad heavy atks have 200% ADM vs unyielding

so 10% rending adds like <20 dmg

lol

[radiant adder]

I'm guessing rashad pick is still just headtaker and brutal momentum?

Flak and cara?

[faint beacon]

Unarmored Cara

[radiant adder]

Whyst

[faint beacon]

1 taps on trash

Cara for 3 shots on crushers

[unreal forge]

is the helbore doomed to need 4-5 headshots to kill maulers (no crits) or is there a way to build it so that it reaches a reasonable TTK?

[tame lodge]

You don't have surgical?

[hollow ibex]

Mk IV can one shot crushers

[tame lodge]

💀

[hollow ibex]

And maulers

[slow spade]

you might have a cooked Helbore

4-5 shots is unusually high time to kill

[hollow ibex]

Could be on the fast one ig

[unreal forge]

yeah Mk IIIA forgot to say

only one that feels good to shoot lol

[junior grail]

I feel helbore might need some buff imo

[unreal forge]

how do I do this?

[slow spade]

assail tracking on the laser

have it bounce on kill UwU

[tall torrent]

gotta damage juice

[tiny gust]

Is hellebore actually viable

[faint beacon]

Yesn't

too much investment to make viable is its issue

[hollow ibex]

Viable in auric and AM

But it’s not easy

[tiny gust]

Not havoc prob due to intensity ?

Seems fun but gimmicky

[unreal forge]

oh, exe stance

ehhhhhh

[tame lodge]

Lot of melee fighting on havoc

[hollow ibex]

You really need ES on helbore

[tame lodge]

If you want to run Helby on havoc

Then get used to the draw speed

[unreal forge]

can 3 shot, 2 shot Crushers sometimes with the Mk IV with 5 stacks of Focus

actually, don't need the Focus stacks

[hollow ibex]

I run focus target instead of MMF

FT is just better quality of life and getting the one shot is still easy

[unreal forge]

yeah that's what I'm talking about

I'll take the 3 shot if it means I can take VoC lol

do need the +25% carapace damage tho, otherwise it turns into 4 shots

not sure if Focus Target reaches any breakpoints for this gun

that's a conundrum

[hollow ibex]

It does for crusher

[unreal forge]

does it? I've been trying it out and it's still a 3-shot, even with 8 stacks of Focus Target

[hollow ibex]

Oh you need ES

I still really think helbore needs ES

For the instant draw

[tall torrent]

don't count on 8 stacks

consider 2 stacks of focus target for breakpoints

[slow spade]

on lower diffs, you can get away with VoC due to less intensity and bayonet can probably kill reliably

but yeah I hope you like One Motion c:

[unreal forge]

guess I'll just wait for the Helbore buffs

amount of effort required for this gun is insane compared to just using a Bolter with any talents and killing everything anyway

[hollow ibex]

Pretty much

[atomic zephyr]

i finally did it

[tiny gust]

what was the penance requirement

[gritty mural]

Make every shot count on rolling steel, smart

[hollow ibex]

help people complete 50 assignments

[lime pendant]

bolter pistol w/ shovel is a friggin cheat code now holy crap.

[unreal nova]

Throw beeg 'nade and proc uncanny for funni, right?

[tiny gust]

should I dump mobility or cleave on powersword?

[narrow frost]

check pin message for weapon breakdowns

its cleave though

[tiny gust]

I browse through pinned but theres a lot to take in. Thank you.

[narrow frost]

#veteran-class message

This is the guide

[tiny gust]

yes, like the ogrynomicon

thanks!

[tall torrent]

cleave target

[unreal bone]

What did the shop reset to todays

Anyone wanna show me while I’m outta town

[calm shard]

it's shit

[atomic void]

you aint messing out on anything

[slow spade]

Psword dump stat is damage

sponsored by Nurgle

[unreal bone]

Show me

I wanna see the weekly reset

[atomic void]

https://reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1jvtdof/commodores_vestures_of_april_10th_2025_may_22nd/ open this

[barren nimbus]

I desperately need to see something good from the store

[narrow frost]

will be 4 years

[atomic void]

last rotation was very good tbf

[soft jewel]

Vostroyan stuff was good

[tame lodge]

Yeah the rotation goes

Semi decent

Slop

Slop

Slop

Semi decent

™

[safe gate]

Well, why would we want them to have stuff that actually tempts us to spend money?

[serene bough]

This rotation had the ash colored bandana so im happy

I like the bandana items

[sharp epoch]

they need to just add like a color customization 😔

so many cosmetics are just a recolor

FOR 20$

[serene bough]

True

But ill cope

[sharp epoch]

crying fr

he has 1401 HP and it does 1400

[austere mica]

Thats a rounding error p sure

[granite basin]

It's actually a squaring error, thanks. It's got the plasma gun market cornered.

[sharp epoch]

sigh also 1 hp away

[tame lodge]

??????

What

Bro got a faulty plasma

[sharp epoch]

not running superiority complex on this build

[safe gate]

I realized I've never played the stealth veteran build, mainly cuz I have no idea how to build it effectively. Could someone point me to a good guide?

[barren nimbus]

I did like 1479 damage and gunners have 1500hp at havoc 35

the plasma gun is pretty cancer but theres nothing really close to it

[sharp epoch]

plasmas really the only choice because of the cleave

same with the meta flamer, purg, and rumbler

[austere mica]

Use knife to get 3 kills in melee then fire shotgun once as your horde clear loop

Reloads not required

[barren nimbus]

Does 3 gunner resistance even do anything for humans

[austere mica]

Yep

Enables extreme monkey behaviors

[sharp epoch]

its multiplicative so you get less as you stack more of those

[austere mica]

You only lose like 11% of printed value

[calm shard]

There are things pretty close to it, but they're not used as frequently because they're massive sluts for skillpoint investment

Plasma just wants you to use the same shit you're already taking anyways

[sharp epoch]

i mean thats basically a point tax if you need certain talents to make it even work

[tall torrent]

dreg gunner is 1750 health at h35

[barren nimbus]

The bolt pistol can be good but it really falls off when you need to cleave through people to kill bombers and stuff. I also feel like it gets extraordinarily poor value from survivalist and the weapon specialist reload. The recon lasgun is kind of weird. It can be tough to aim efficiently with how badly the game runs at havoc 40

[calm shard]

you use bolt pistol to make your grenades better

[austere mica]

Or do this

[barren nimbus]

The grenade builds can be very hit or miss. It basically just feels like a shitty ogryn with no sustain

Rumbler is so stupid its unreal

[hollow ibex]

yeah rumbler build rn is even more gamebreaking than smite lol

[elder fiber]

big shock that shit that ignores hitmass is hard to balance in tidegame

[stiff glacier]

Goes to darklantern
try to get build ideas
dueling sword
dueling sword
VoC
dueling sword

[thick needle]

which infantry autogun was the good one that used to be the Columnus

it's Vraks now right

[austere mica]

Yes

[thick needle]

Built a second veteran for cosmetic drip storage and forgor

[sharp epoch]

easy outdamage the whole team combined

[hollow ibex]

yeah looks right to me

[lime marsh]

Hats the dump stat for built pistol

[iron marten]

Pitbull named Princess

[fading yarrow]

https://youtu.be/ctYFjwA8pf8?si=tsQ5Nyr5hlWnGpJ7

If this hasn't been posted here already I'm telling the Commissar

[thorn lark]

there's a pinned guide 🙂

[verbal burrow]

Bolter and rapid fire lasgun are also okay, even if they are not as competitive

[warm idol]

whats wild is that we have a leaked stuff that people would absolutely love

like heavy flak armor that is just a basic green instead of sludge camo

or scion armor

[pseudo fiber]

The scion armour isnt done

[warm idol]

like does fatshark hate money or something

[pseudo fiber]

Nor has it been touched for like over a year now

[warm idol]

the slow rotation and the limited pages are also dumb

just give us a full store

fomo doesnt work when most stuff is absolute ass

just make the rotation be a sale on specific items every week or two instead

im sure that will generate more revenue even

I hate this trend of games having premium cosmetics locked to a rotation

instead of just being able to buy whatever you want whenever you want

[warm idol]

then they should finish it and put it up for sale to generate some easy money

[pseudo fiber]

Because it works? The shops exists to make money they're following the most profitable way

FOMO objectively works

[warm idol]

iconic stuff like kasrkin or scions will generate much more money than peg legs and jackets

[warm idol]

except in other games most cosmetics tend to actually be good

I seriously doubt most people are buying the slop obese megalodon put on

its more likely they just blindly follow trends

the rotation in other games also tends to be faster

like 2-3 days in helldivers case

even destiny had a fomo shop that they moved away from

and instead made old stuff always available

if that made them lose money I doubt they would have done it

I would have less of a problem with the shop if the rotation wasnt so slow at least

its disappointing to wait 2 weeks only to get more slop or a repeat

we have enough cosmetics in game now that they can easily shorten it

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah honestly they should

26 rotations a year ain't a lot lol

[warm idol]

just make a day for every page

if you are gonna do fomo at least do it well

or 2-3 days if you want to flip all pages at the same time

I dont like helldivers fomo shop either but at least its fast enough that you dont have to wait too long to get something you missed

[warm idol]

that puts things into perspective

its so painfully slow

[dreamy scaffold]

unreliable long term

theres only so much “iconic stuff”

[unkempt lodge]

Bring it down! or Exploit Weakness?

[tame lodge]

BiD

[calm shard]

BiD every time

exploit weakness is kinda bad

[unkempt lodge]

Is Brittleness Damage bad in general?

[calm shard]

no

but both of veterans brittleness talents are bad

Onslaught is in a shit place on the skill tree, and stacks too slowly

Exploit Weakness is inconsistent because of crit reliance and a small value

[serene bough]

Itll be fine, people will drop a college tuitions worth of money on plastic toys for warhammer

[serene bough]

What gun

[calm shard]

Then we discover that Grendyl's a fucking weirdo inquisitor, and Fatshark starts adding xenos weapons for us to use

[dreamy scaffold]

we need needlers

[tame lodge]

I'm on my RT arc rn
Gimme an aeldari sniper rifle

That shit hurts

[pseudo fiber]

One of the vox intercepts implies he worked with the Aeldari

[dreamy scaffold]

…can i roll for perception

[serene bough]

Id like to see some xenos weapons

[pseudo fiber]

You succeeded here's the video
https://youtu.be/A6Eudb4bxT0?si=6wV0JSkg9_6OW2sh

[dreamy scaffold]

..is that recent?

[pseudo fiber]

2 months old and still unlisted

[dreamy scaffold]

i see

makes sense

[calm shard]

A shuriken rifle would be pretty cool

[frank ledge]

Oi boss

When stop using VoC?

[calm shard]

I dunno I barely use it to begin with

[serene bough]

Never stop using

[calm shard]

I'm honestly tempted to try and make my havoc build Infiltrate instead of VoC

Not because it's better but because VoC is booooooooooooooring

[serene bough]

Even when you log off, continue to scream voice lines

[calm shard]

It'd also help with objectives on those maps

[serene bough]

Yeah i use infiltrate more than VoC but for havoc i bring VoC

[pseudo fiber]

https://youtu.be/0IpmcIHreAg?si=ivvBzmddGYaivReV
These are still so good not sure why they didn't release them

[frank ledge]

The main issue with that is pubs won't ever touch you

No matter how many medals you got

I tried

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/kendrick-lamar-u-screaming-in-the-hotel-room-tpab-tpab-poem-to-pimp-a-butterfly-gif-4005569222539385807

[serene bough]

Unless you're rolling with a 4man pre-made you should just bring VoC

Its good manners to the rest of the group

[frank ledge]

"Good manners"

See this is why trolling happens so often

People really stuck up to what I bring, assuming I can't switch it in the last 5 seconds

[calm shard]

Why would I care about those losers beyond complaining about them when we wipe

for legal reasons that's a joke

[frank ledge]

The best way to run exe/infiltrate atm in havoc is to have a voc build

Then right before the timer ends, switch

No one will notice till the screen goes yellow

[dreamy scaffold]

wow this one is actually more eery than the aeldari

we dont hear much about how the Wyrmwood agents function in the wild

that couldve been any number of things

[serene bough]

Wym

[pseudo fiber]

See this ones annoying because it means I have to admit Melk did the right thing.

[frank ledge]

The community has this notion that they require VoC to win and that not doing so means you are griefing/trolling
Which just encourages people that enjoy said OTHER builds to troll hard

Similar issue with purgatus vs trauma

[dreamy scaffold]

1. the fact they got into their comms is bad
2. couldnt they just.. look around the planet for the ship

[frank ledge]

We won't see any innovation because the community is stuck up refusing to test

[serene bough]

You dont require VoC to win but VoC is undisputed best for team buffs and survival whereas exec and infil are far more individually focused

[dreamy scaffold]

thank god im an individual

[serene bough]

So in a group of randoms its better to build for team survival over all bc coordination and build synergy may not be as strong

[pseudo fiber]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEgVioFbi8r4mgOFbvo9_jRSRtYgDxTr7&si=flYvCbbt6uvAeyHe
Here's a link to the playlist with all 6 since you showed interest.

No idea why these didn't release

[dreamy scaffold]

intercept XIV
“theres two reasons for that

1. rhey are all dead
2. they are too scared to break vox silence
   what is down there?”

[calm shard]

him

[dreamy scaffold]

melk best character

“rannick says not to make assumptions”
“ughh.. and rannick knows best..”

[scenic bronze]

Been using infiltrate since talents came out, and just swapped to shout what kinda internal class balance is this 💀

[tame lodge]

[tropic notch]

If I’m babysitting i play my zealot

Crit book is handy there

[warm idol]

I havent seen anyone say that you need voc to win

[frank ledge]

Take a gander at reddit/youtube or even in-game

[warm idol]

its just the best due to being both an oh shit button and a buff to your team with extra toughness

[warm idol]

I literally havent seen anyone say that in game

[frank ledge]

Yeah, but it been the best is making people simply not accept anyone seeking to try new things out, which makes any possible innovation less likely

[frank ledge]

Pick inf or exe stance

Try to get a match

[warm idol]

I had havocs where people ran exe or infil and they werent asked to swap

[frank ledge]

They likely were 30-50 minutes waiting for inv

or hosted themselves

[warm idol]

also its not that the community doesnt want to innovate or something its just shitty balancing on fatsharks end

all 3 options are viable but one is better in vast majority of cases

[frank ledge]

People didn't realize the power of hsword till 3 of us a while back decided to run it daily

Balancing WILL always be shitty, but having community pushback because of your choices stams any possible innovation specially with obscure mechanics like tide games tend to have

People didn't realise halberd was strong in vt2 till a single youtuber made a video denouncing such

[warm idol]

I think people realise that heavy sword is good its just that theres other stuff that can both deal with hordes and crunch armor very well, and isnt hsword kinda eh vs armor?

again its poor balancing

you got stuff like rashad or power sword that deal with armor AND hordes without issues

[frank ledge]

Not for zealots which is the entire reason innovation shouldn't be looked down upon or worse we have "good manners" now

Good manners are the worst thing that can happen to a mythic+ community

[warm idol]

or dueling sword which makes you untouchable

[frank ledge]

Caxe is slower and is still capped
Psword has activation issues and is limited to vet despite having better single

DS is not a horde weapon

[warm idol]

the weapon balance is absolutely awful

[frank ledge]

Yeah...but that has nothing to do with this bs code of conduct that is propping up

Balance will ALWAYS be bad

[warm idol]

tbh till the other dude mentioned that I didnt know it existed

[frank ledge]

but what really kills it is bs "good manners" stuff like "if vet voc" otherwise, wait 50 minutes

[tough tiger]

Dclaw is unusable in current havoc

[warm idol]

I never encountered that personally

[frank ledge]

Seems pretty rampant in EU currently

Even just equipping smaul seems to increase your decline rate irrelevant of class

Even on purga psyker

[warm idol]

I only ran one havoc with exe stance but that was around 20 so maybe its different higher up where I have been running voc

[tall torrent]

Mostly limited to veteran

[warm idol]

well this is the veteran chat

I dont comment on other classes as I dont play em outside of ogryn here and there

[frank ledge]

Darcy

[lilac stump]

I just want to be able to play fully ranged with my veteran. I don't see how is that not possible in the current game... But I can with Psyjer and Ogryn :/

[warm idol]

this game isnt designed around full ranged tbf

[lilac stump]

Psyker and Ogryn don't seem to have an issue.

[frank ledge]

In aurics you technically could on las

Havoc it's imposible

You COULD run Helbore

[warm idol]

even on havoc?

[frank ledge]

But the issue is your damage output plummets so you'd be an assist for an ammo hungry class

[lilac stump]

I haven't played Havoc yet

[frank ledge]

Like Glugger or Gunker

[warm idol]

poor helbore

I have such fond memories of it but man was it powercrept

[warm idol]

I doubt you can do full ranged on havoc with any class considering the more limited ammo

melee is a big part of the game

so I doubt fatshark ever wants that

[lilac stump]

Psyker use no ammo 🙂

[warm idol]

staffs dont count

its warp trickery

[lilac stump]

Staff count, it's playing ranged 🙂

[elder fiber]

*warp shittery

[warm idol]

but they are a special case anyway

[lilac stump]

but they can play fully ranged

[warm idol]

yeah but you are carrying a gun

you dont have unlimited ammo

get in the thick of it guardsman

and dont you dare spend your precious ammo on poxwalkers

[lilac stump]

Ok, so Ammo management, is a thing in games that have guns.. also I'm not saying 100% range. but instead of the 60 Melee / 40 Range it is I would like to see one where it is 80% range/ 20% Melee

[frank ledge]

The good old days of Darcy defending veteran

[tall torrent]

Psyker can do 90% ranged no problem

[frank ledge]

And our shots been blocked by teamates

[frank ledge]

Not possible in havoc outside of las weapons

[tall torrent]

Ogryn going ranged is a strain on ammo Econ but PBB + BLO for rumbler is pretty busted

[warm idol]

well you can do that outside of havoc with las and shock trooper

[frank ledge]

Non-las veteran in havoc runs closer to 40 range/60 melee, sometimes further

depending on your choice

[atomic void]

straight up annoying to play with

[frank ledge]

THe ogryn with lucky bullet is likely shooting more than you

Rumbla

[tall torrent]

Veteran at best is 50:50 melee/ranged, and can tilt in favor of 60~70% melee to 40~30% ranged

[lilac stump]

That's exactly what I'm complaining about. You as a Veteran, should be able to play 80%Range 20% Melee outside of las weapons. Like the whole left side of the tree is pretty useless Why not reworking it so that it can be played ?

[frank ledge]

It's not that it's useless per say
It's that it's not ENOUGH for havoc ammo eco to shoot more often

[warm idol]

in 2026 maybe they will rework it kek

[frank ledge]

And it only works on las weapons

[tall torrent]

I don’t think an 80% ranged non-las build will ever be truly viable for havoc

lol

Unless ur dead like 50%+ the time

[frank ledge]

Nope ur a zeteran

[tall torrent]

Since u get half ammo when u get rescued

[tame lodge]

2026 is zealots year
2027 is vets

[lilac stump]

it is useless. Have you tried playing a build with the left side of the tree ? I have, and it's pathetic. THe other ones at least have something going on.

[warm idol]

new meta

[tall torrent]

So u can technically have infinite sustain in ammo if u keep dying

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/suit-meme-gif-3154536417054843778

[warm idol]

drop all your bolter ammo

die

get rescued

repeat

big brain moment

[warm idol]

fatshark coming in at the speed of government

[serene bough]

Shocktrooper applies to plasma yes or no?

[tall torrent]

Left side is playable

[serene bough]

I forget

[warm idol]

no

[frank ledge]

I still run recon on havoc often

[warm idol]

its not a las weapon lol

[frank ledge]

Recon left side, still VoC of course and middle keystone (mark)

[warm idol]

keystone or without?

[lilac stump]

You can play without putting any point in the tree too.

[warm idol]

recon uses stuff on left

[lilac stump]

Keystone included

[serene bough]

I go left tree when using ilas for havoc

[frank ledge]

I've also tried to run helbore for havoc 38 (left side keystone)

It's painful, but you are ammo positive which allows your comp to have a glugger/gunker without that much issue

[warm idol]

the keystone isnt that amazing yes but the left side isnt useless

[tall torrent]

No offense but I really don’t think someone who just got lv30 in the game has enough of a say on what things are & aren’t good

[frank ledge]

Your damage nosedives hard

[warm idol]

precsion strikes, elite dmg, shock trooper, more ammo are all good

but it is lacking compared to middle and right

ill agree

[frank ledge]

Left side dip, go mid is a classic

[serene bough]

Depends on the weapon imo

Left side has great nodes

[lilac stump]

That's called Gatekeeping. Offense taken 🙂

[warm idol]

you can also just not run keystones on recon specifically

[warm idol]

thats not really gatekeeping

he is right

[frank ledge]

Back to square 1, keystoneless veteran

[warm idol]

saying the WHOLE left side of the tree is useless is quite wrong

[frank ledge]

Nothing ever changes

[warm idol]

SAME AS IT EVER WAS

[frank ledge]

Darcy was right, we'd run keystoneless for years after the nerf

And here we are

[warm idol]

who the hell is darcy

[frank ledge]

THE original veteran

[lilac stump]

Doesn't matter if you think it's right or wrong, invalidating an issue that someone found just because he has less experience is called gatekeeping you can look it up.
I don't see the whole issue maybe, but I see an issue. And I'm just exposing and defending it like any other person would.

[tall torrent]

I can apologize for offending you but I stand by my statement

[warm idol]

well your issue is not being able to run full ranged

and imo thats subjective

[tall torrent]

You cannot make wholescale judgements like that without knowing wholescale

[frank ledge]

Darcy was the most vocal veteran about what had to be done to not shaft veteran with a nerf
They were banned after getting too heated and then veteran got shafted

[warm idol]

personally I think its ideal that every class uses melee

and I do agree that left side is kinda lacking

[frank ledge]

Darcy's legacy lives on tho as we suffer the oppresion of balancing

[serene bough]

The game requires many hours of testing and build crafting, people who haven't played hundreds of hours will not understand this unfortunately

[frank ledge]

I mean we have a lot of resources for learning that we didn't in the past

[serene bough]

Not saying you need 100+ hours to have an opinion, but more hours and understanding of the game is better before such blanket statements

[frank ledge]

The veteran pdf is great to do the math

[lilac stump]

Which definitely should be an option for veteran, since you know he was a soldier in the astra militarum, and if my Codex doesn't lie the run of the mill soldier is pretty BAD at melee.

[warm idol]

tbf its just for recon

[warm idol]

you arent an average guardsmen tho

[frank ledge]

Still, no other class even considers going keystoneless

[warm idol]

you are a hardened veteran

[tall torrent]

Darktide veteran is ~1 geneseed away from becoming a named space marine

That’s like the best way I can put it for u

[warm idol]

and veteran guardsmen are pretty good in melee

as far as unaugmented humans go

[serene bough]

Darktide vet being able to stab to death a plogryn or BoN must be an in office joke at fatshark

[warm idol]

sergeants are frequently depicted with a sword and gun combo on the tt for example

[frank ledge]

John Veteran

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-darktide-stop-wait-cease-gif-2247250952699468598

[unreal nova]

We are just catachan in disguise.

[atomic void]

our characters are powercrept waaaay beyond what they could possibly achieve in lore

[serene bough]

Now this is content, stealing

[frank ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-darktide-sharpshooter-darktide-veteran-hello-chat-darktide-hello-chat-gif-2742873438399829862

[lilac stump]

trust me veteran or not you shouldn't be that good at melee, Maybe catachan soldier are because of the jungle theme and all.

[frank ledge]

Barrelmancy brought veteran

[warm idol]

bro that is just

[pseudo fiber]

https://imgur.com/a/3TdgKJR

[warm idol]

wrong

[frank ledge]

Man has to do THE PENANCE

[warm idol]

theres plenty of examples in lore of normal humans being good in melee

[frank ledge]

Crabveteran

[serene bough]

This is always be my favorite

[atomic void]

orrrr its a game where big part of the gameplay is melee and it would suck to have one class at a major disadvantage where they suck ass at melee

[frank ledge]

Technically we have catachan vet with infiltrate

[warm idol]

theres a reason guard officers and ncos tend to go around wielding chainswords and power swords

[lilac stump]

Tell me, from the lore, an astra militarum soldier recognized for it's prowess in hand to hand combat.

[tall torrent]

If u rly wanna talk lore accuracy. Veteran should be able to call in a deathstrike missile and obliterate the entire map

[thick needle]

(Obviously bias voice)
What Veteran really needs are buffs to the double-barrel shotgun

[warm idol]

grendyl should just call in exterminatus tbf

[atomic void]

not sure why we're assuming darktide is 100% lore accurate in the first place

we are too strong

[tall torrent]

It’s part of canon

[serene bough]

I love the humor of lore accuracy when we run around with a kitchen knife slaughtering hundreds of dudes and winning

[tall torrent]

Therefore everything that happens in DT is canon

[pseudo fiber]

Most wishy washy canon game ever made lolol

[atomic void]

yep and that's why its funny af

[warm idol]

well he did cite lore of the average guardsman being bad in melee

[serene bough]

Just imagine the physics of you holding off a horde of 30 chumps armed only with one knife

[unreal nova]

To be fair, gameplay and story segregation things.

[atomic void]

are they actually bad tho
asking a geniune queston

[tall torrent]

On tabletop yes

In lore usually

[warm idol]

varies per regiment but usually pretty eh yeah

[tall torrent]

But then again there’re different interpretations of veteran

You could just be a random guy that survived first deployment

[pseudo fiber]

The personalities say otherwise

[warm idol]

as all they are trained to be a gunline and only have a bayonet, knife and shovel

[serene bough]

Bad or not in melee, a veteran 1v1ing a plogryn in melee is utterly humorous

[tall torrent]

Except none of the DT veteran personalities suggest that you belong to that group of so-called veterans

[unreal nova]

But at least the 6 vets we have aren't bad at it. Assuming each voice is a character.

[tall torrent]

Exactly

[tame lodge]

It's always Silverhand 😭

[serene bough]

Like, the attacks we block should easily obliterate any human

[pseudo fiber]

Professional mentions fighting the Tau
Loose cannon says he fought a bunch of stuff probably not true tho

[tall torrent]

Cutthroat was on Cadia during 13th black crusade

[atomic void]

the way i see it, fatshark took a lot of "creative freedom" with how strong the characters are
like the entire theme is we're expendable rejects with no names and there's an endless supply of rejects getting thrown into the meatgrinder but we turn into gods lmao

[frank ledge]

Loose cannon allegedly fought traitor astartes, doubt but it could have happened

[serene bough]

Id believe LC fought some xenos

He's a bullshitter but one who's seen too much

[warm idol]

if its cadian it makes sense

[pseudo fiber]

And at least a Khornite cult too

[unreal nova]

Probs just overstates it but has seen to a degree.

[lilac stump]

Veteran class should be a Helldiver, there I said it. Small arms expert with some demolition capacity. Not very resilient.

[normal bay]

The last book involving the guard I read had the soldiers train hard in melee for an upcoming tyranid invasion. It's completely normal for guard to be experienced melee combatants

[frank ledge]

It's loose cannon tho
Don't think cadian says what he fought

[thick needle]

Guardsmen aren't bad at melee (in lore)
It's that you're asking a dude who's lived on one meal a day for all 20 years of his life to 1v1 either a demon, a 500 year old warrior poet or a magic-enhanced 8'9 combat mutant

[pseudo fiber]

"Some of them scream 'Blood for the blood god' when they run at you. Creepy little karkers."

[unreal nova]

Knows too much to have not seen, tbh.

[frank ledge]

Tabletop wise guardsmen aren't bad in melee, lots of models

Just, don't put them up against the melee chewers

They are better than the usual tau gunline

[thick needle]

Sometimes all three in one being

[unreal nova]

To be fair, it's really what they are up against.

[unreal bone]

Ty

Wow bro yeah this weeks shop rotation sucks ass

[tame lodge]

Nuh uh
I will order them to go hand to hand with daemonettes

[tall torrent]

“I survived Cadia, I will survive this” in prologue

[tame lodge]

Surely that will go well

[frank ledge]

I mean you are not suposed to charge your guardsmen into ork killa kans

Unless you just roll well

[unreal nova]

There's only so much an avg guy with great cqc abilities can do considering the avg enemy they face.

[frank ledge]

[atomic void]

call me stoopid but the whole thing is gameplay dissonance

its like when you're playing the good guy nathan drake in uncharted but u kill hundrends each game

nathan aint actually a psycho path

it's just gameplayt

same thing here

[serene bough]

Pretty much this

[atomic void]

we're not cracked to oblivion, its gameplay

[lilac stump]

Depend on what you compare it.. Comparing to Tau, anything is good at melee, Comparing to Orkz ? Orkz are generally better, and from there you don't win anyone in melee. Eldars ? Good luck winning melee against them with guardsman. Dark Eldar ? Not a chance,. Tyrannids ? Train all you want if your plan is going melee with them you've already lost. And then we go Chaos or Astartes I don't think I need to expand this point.

[thick needle]

I like the goggles-ragmask and the leather-daddy armor

[unreal nova]

Is why an achievement calls it out if you kill too many enemies.

[atomic void]

which one

[frank ledge]

I've seen 10 guardsmen defeat traitor astartes in melee
It's all in the heart of the dice

"He can't keep rolling high"

[tall torrent]

If u hate melee so much then play left side, run a recon, u can shoot at basically everything as long as you’re not in havoc or CIVI

It’s genuinely nowhere as bad as you’re putting it

[tall torrent]

Unless you’re like 100% left side spec and no branching out

[warm idol]

I mean it is

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-19335672

[warm idol]

but is a discussion about guardsmen melee effectiveness in lore now

[unreal nova]

But but but, muh onslaught.

[tall torrent]

If they cannot function in melee, they can take onslaught all they want

[frank ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/blood-bowl-leap-fail-sk-gif-26464055

The dice weren't kind to him, goodbye kislev

[atomic void]

my lore knowledge is still youtube vids TM so dunno
was just mentioning how u can easily justify our characters tanking 10 chaos bosses at the same time ez pz lemon squeezy

[serene bough]

I wonder if there's a truly unhinged psycho who puts all points only into one column

[faint beacon]

COME ON!!!!! IVE BEEN WAITING TO PLAY FOR 9 FUCKING HOURS!!!!

[unreal nova]

True.

[pseudo fiber]

Rest in peace more dakka

Not really that shocking it got nerfed

[faint beacon]

You will be stalled into oblivion

You will enjoy it

Lmao

[frank ledge]

[tall torrent]

There’s a >0% chance that a guardsman can solo kill an eldar harlequin in melee

[sharp epoch]

bolter wont work because it eats ammo like crazy and havoc you have no ammo

[sharp epoch]

yeah right sly marbo could

[heavy rover]

I told myself I shouldn't get too attached to the power sword, but damn do I admit that Power cycler + Sunder is addicting

[unborn perch]

Me

[lilac stump]

I heard that Sly Marbo once travelled through the warp to slap Korn and came back unscathed, they even made a game about it called Doom.

[unreal nova]

That batter be oggy.

[errant carbon]

Korn seem like a bunch of posers tbh I'm not surprised at all

[unborn perch]

Nah yall would go plum wild if you saw my veteran builds

[unreal nova]

Don't accidentally give Path a brain aneurysm.

[verbal burrow]

I just play regular auric maelstrom tho

And I am perfectly capable of exercising single shot trigger discipline

[unborn perch]

I legit have left, middle and right builds lmao

[verbal burrow]

I do agree that Plasma Gun is definitely the most erection of the erectables

[lilac stump]

I'm complaining a lot, but I did make something that "kinda" work with the Hellbore at least in Maelstrom Damnation (Haven't tested it in Auric yet, baby steps :)).

[lilac stump]

Show me a left side build please, I might just be bad at seeing how to make it work.

[tall torrent]

Drop 8 stacks of focus target for iron will

[verbal burrow]

damn that will so iron

[tall torrent]

What weapons

this is like, a pretty standard template for ranged vet

[lilac stump]

I'm using the Hellbore Mk IIIa with Surgical and Hot Shot

[sharp epoch]

Yeah auric malestroms run any gun, its easy, havoc every ammo pickup is halved

[verbal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-screaming-muppet-kermit-kermit-the-frog-meme-gif-9225198700279694876

[tall torrent]

3 float points

can spec melee

or go agile engagement

u get options

[verbal burrow]

The ammunition conservation bullshit on the Infantry Lasgun finally starts to become interesting then

[tall torrent]

No it’s just recon spam lol

[sharp epoch]

Sadly, it's still a bad gun you have to run exe stance to make it even useable against shooters

[verbal burrow]

yeah I guess it's just recon spam then

[lilac stump]

I'm liking the infiltrate - sniper combo. it isn't half bad tbh basically shoot and scoot. 🙂

[tall torrent]

it's usually too costly to go shredder into infil and still keep a mostly ranged build

anyways here's helbore IIIa breakpoint & crafting

[lilac stump]

Thanks, where can I find these for other weapons ? I was thinking of testing the infiltrate build I showed with the Infantry Lasgun too

[tall torrent]

steam guide is not ready for public release

it's like maybe 45% done

I do have every single veteran ranged weapon section completed

[lilac stump]

Oh I see, you're making it! Thanks, and keep up the good work 😄