veteran-class

[faint beacon]

Yeah I do got it

Also yeah I can help with the penance section as well

especially the MMF one

[tall torrent]

I sent u a steam friend req btw

[faint beacon]

seeing I've been getting way into MMF keystone lately

[serene bough]

Do u get compensation for your work

Or is this all just voluntary

[tall torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-steam-steamhappy-gif-11912067498964962572

[serene bough]

Haha

[broken spade]

damn, path banned soon...

[hollow ibex]

Vet guide delayed indefinitely

[faint beacon]

compensation being... uh

[hollow ibex]

By the time zealot guide is done, it’ll need to be completely reworked for the zealot tree rework

[faint beacon]

telling people how to build vet correctly

[loud belfry]

why dont all the guides just become one

[faint beacon]

Cause its better to pin-point differences between the classes

people will get confused if they're all put together

[loud belfry]

well yeah, that is true, but even then they could still probably work together i suppose

[hollow ibex]

Fighting tanner fake news

[serene bough]

paid in quantities of the phrase "check the pinned" ad nauseam

[tall torrent]

outside of class-exclusive weapons, talents & mechanics
mine covers basically everything

[bleak cradle]

Wasn’t someone working on a guide and then a major patch (tree update maybe?) and it stopped

[tall torrent]

is ur steam name "Grigori Reaver from Black Ops 6"

[faint beacon]

Yes

yes it is

[tall torrent]

I can't find u in friend list

[faint beacon]

LMAO

[tall torrent]

mf

u change name every 3 days

[tall torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cola-cat-cola-explosion-luma-ai-gif-12441479630905084027

[faint beacon]

Cause I find humor in aliases

[loud belfry]

a wiki where you can change your class (like how you can change wikipedia's language) for each page. a lot of the data will probably not need to change

[tall torrent]

ok sent u contributor request

[unreal nova]

Except bolt pistol. Cos no need for lethal prox for zealot or psyker. XD

[unreal nova]

You mean to just use the latter one for the other guides?

[tall torrent]

it's adaptable

granted, the breakpoint table is veteran-exclusive

[unreal nova]

True.

[tall torrent]

if I get banned I'll tell someone else to post steam guide link in here

[narrow frost]

@tall torrent Is the infested on Dbarrel only for dogs?

[tall torrent]

1 shot 30+ poxwalkers with crit bodyshot

hipfire

it's quite funny

azreal told me this

[hollow ibex]

Huh

Maybe I should try

But flakiac is so good…

[tall torrent]

sent u steam contributor as well

same deal

u can edit sections with (WIP) on them

and add extra sections should they be necessary

just

don't get ur account compromised

[narrow frost]

I am careful

[tall torrent]

u now have access to a very centralized hub of info

[narrow frost]

yippee

https://tenor.com/view/hai-gif-10567033442484308038

[tall torrent]

I put like

everything I think that matters

in there

[tall torrent]

if necessary u can also copy paste stuff into vodka's zealot guide

dats wat I did anyway

[narrow frost]

Considering that now

lol

[tall torrent]

also if smth is marked as WIP

all info within is subject to changes

[tall torrent]

Btw @narrow frost if ur working on a section
Change that section’s (WIP) tag to (WIP-Ainz)

[narrow frost]

Will do

[steady ibex]

Is Veteran meta same as before patch?

[faint beacon]

Honestly its never changed

I dont think it ever will unless we get a new weapon that shakes up the meta

or

Tree rework

[calm shard]

vet doesn't need a tree rework tho

[faint beacon]

former is most probably to happen first

[calm shard]

their layout is fine it's just there's a lot of bad skills that could use buffs

[slow spade]

You can use plasma Psword and still be roughly as strong back in Patch 14 like a year ago

[faint beacon]

It absolutely needs a tree rehaul LMAO

[calm shard]

like Kill Zone and Catch A Breath got buffed and they're good now

[dry cloak]

if anythin vet needs node rearengement

[faint beacon]

Woe 7 million point tax upon ye

[calm shard]

they wouldn't be taxes if the skills weren't bad you know

[slow spade]

The only real point tax imo is the middle bottom 25% suppression node

No one wants that lol

But it leads to Iron Will and stuff

[faint beacon]

beginning of left tree, no one really uses

a majority of the good stuff everyone grabs is near the bottom

[tall torrent]

Not enough

Those 2 need more buffs

[slow spade]

To be fair, that's because they bricked Longshot

[faint beacon]

AE is extreme far right

[calm shard]

yeah Longshot is comically bad

[faint beacon]

its just in a need of crunching down and re-arranging

[calm shard]

Exhilarating Takedown is quite good, but y'know it's below longshot

[faint beacon]

ET is okay

but vs O4B and CK?

[calm shard]

Out For Blood is also good and behind a bad skill with One Motion

[faint beacon]

no way

The difference between OM and LS

[calm shard]

CK is the only route that's 2 good skills which is why people take that one most of the time

and O4B is the best toughness talent in the game probably

[faint beacon]

is LS is never useful in higher difficulties or literally get value out of it around

10% of the match

OM helps with everything

its a QOL node

[slow spade]

Longshot used to be good

Then the close distance change hit

Rip Longshot

[faint beacon]

OM also helps with Frag swap speed

which is pretty fucking huge

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

And the move speed node right after is peak

[faint beacon]

Honestly imo which I know path's restructure answered was

a lot of the nodes and there's like 2 actually useless talents

were either crunched down or removed

[slow spade]

Pre-rework vet with like 100+ nodes UwU

[faint beacon]

yummy yummy point tax

[tall torrent]

CK is better
O4B just has wider application

[sharp epoch]

nah its ogryns toughness on hit

[faint beacon]

Ogryn: literally just press M1 for toughness

[sharp epoch]

it lets you not move at all and solo two plagryns while holding left click

[calm shard]

is that with confident strike the blessing, or just the talent

[sharp epoch]

Looks like with confident strike they 1v7 the plaguegryns

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QGrPlcfFBvs

[fervent quest]

It really is. So glad I listened to this channel and gave Out for Blood a try cause it's such a good talent

Well I guess it doesn't compare to Ogryn's click to not die

But it comes very close

[unreal nova]

Is so good to be able to panic 'nade with it at times.

[tame lodge]

Tell D*rn I don't like his FOV

💀

[narrow frost]

did

nevermind, he is afk

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/killing-floor-killing-floor-1-kf-kf1-high-fov-gif-5339355594327592762

[formal ice]

How Stealth Zealots feel after rushing and leaving their team behind:

[faint beacon]

Whenever Dorn makes a video like that it’s usually just a statement of how something is ridiculously overpowered lmao

[cinder token]

what is the correct pattern for achlys to clear hordes? special/light/light/special/light/light/special?

[tall torrent]

What weapon

[cinder token]

achlys power sword

are there any other achlys weapons?

[broken spade]

combat axe

i'm sure there's more but i forgor

[hollow ibex]

Achlys twink

[cinder token]

weapon naming in this game is beyond chaotic

[tame lodge]

Achlys pea shooter

Achlys hard hitter

[cinder token]

and it's been changer for no reason several times

[hollow ibex]

Light spam for hordes. PA and light strike down for single target

[tame lodge]

(twin linked and heavy Stubber respectively)

[cinder token]

what about light/light/block/light/light? two horizontal swings, cancel, repeat

[hollow ibex]

If you want ig

Too much work for me

[tall torrent]

Horde clear
Special
Block cancel
Light 1
Light 2
Light 3

Horde control
Special
Push
Light 2
Light 3

Single target
Special
Push ATK
Light 4
Light 1

[cinder token]

esoteric....

[hollow ibex]

It’s a relatively simple weapon

[sharp epoch]

chat i dont even know how block cancel

[hollow ibex]

The phrase gives some hints

[stuck gorge]

just press block right after it gets electric in the powering animation and it cancels the last part of it where you lower it before being able to attack

[calm shard]

okay exe stance is fun in new havoc

but I cannot carry people with it

which is proving to be an issue

[sharp epoch]

is ammo the issue?

[sharp epoch]

thandk

[calm shard]

not even a little bit

it's more exe stance doesn't help me against the thick boys of new game mode if I need to get some breathing room

and I only have so many grenades

[gilded raft]

Is it getting donkey punched to death by 1 poxwalker you missed?

[calm shard]

also no

heavy sword takes care of them

[sharp epoch]

heavy sword and exe stance 😬

[calm shard]

i'm using a helbore

it 2 shots crushers

and 1 shots bulwarks

if I switched to infantry las I'd probably use power sword or chain axe

[sharp epoch]

rager packs gonna eat you up

[calm shard]

heavy sword one shots ragers

well not scab ragers

2 shots them with special

but they're not really as big of an issue in the context of hsword

[gilded raft]

Id argue with exe stance, you shouldn't bother with ogryn enemies. Keep the specials and shooters dead so your team can handle the horde without peeling off to do specialist work

[calm shard]

I am also finding the same weird quirk that I have with aurics

Where I am frequently the only person on the team that has boss damage

[gilded raft]

That is usually the case for me, except you can remove the word "boss"

Pug aurics... Is what it is

[sharp epoch]

psykers typically gonna be on horde control esp staff ones, zealots are booking, it's up to either the ogryn or vet usually to pick it ip

[stuck gorge]

Where I am frequently the only person on the team that has boss damage

[calm shard]

running it like this with Mk IV Helbore, and Mk IX Heavy Sword

[earnest dew]

The other three died, time to clutch is now.

[calm shard]

focus target probably more reliable keystone in this instance

would free up skill points for more right tree stuff too

[sharp epoch]

focus target is really bad

[gilded raft]

Focus target, deadshot and stamina on dodging ranged there on the right. Crit heaven

[calm shard]

that's a meme build

[hollow ibex]

Wat

[gilded raft]

So?

[calm shard]

I don't need more crit chance because I'm not running out of ammo

[gilded raft]

But crit is lit

So to speak

[gilded raft]

Don't start trolling so early in the day

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1351979601563484180/1352027579934314708/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2025.03.19_-_17.14.33.09.mp4?ex=67f63a8e&is=67f4e90e&hm=29f8fc661e6e6addef7bd10b17e9911b4043a155a49de201f3b8c3eb1261d519&

[sharp epoch]

at max stacks it gives a whopping 20% damage buff on one target

and it takes like 10 seconds to fully charge those stacks

[gilded raft]

It's free damage for 1 point since you're always (supposed to be) pinging targets anyway. Toughness and stamina regen with an extra point on tol

[sharp epoch]

Weapon specialist gives also free damage for one point (crit) and fire speed, also gives melee attack speed and dodge distance

[gilded raft]

Vs janky stutter step stacks or weapon spec (which is great but makes no sense for the shooter only vet)

If your role on the team is to shoot stuff and you have a zealot or two or an oggy or 2 on there with you, spending several points so you can punch harder when you could be blasting priority targets and monstrosity for 20% extra is... Unwise

I love weapon spec, but focus target is what you bring when you're the gun guy

Or no keystone, always an option

[sharp epoch]

I mean you gotta wait 10 seconds for that 20%, 10 seconds is LONG. in practice your just swapping a 4% damage buff between enemies

[hollow ibex]

You need to take it with the redirect fire node

Otherwise yes not great

[earnest dew]

Focus target also goes great with deadshot as you can always get stamina whether you or someone else kills your target and you can always have a high upkeep of 12.5% damage team wide when killing marked targets.

[sharp epoch]

It's just too many points to make that keystone useful too. people are saying take redirect fire and the stamina/toughness node

[gilded raft]

4% is more than zero
I usually bring the toughness and stamina regen upgrade too. And most of the time i can get 2-3 stacks on average targets, and can save up my 20 when i hear the monster spawn cue(which really matters)

[hollow ibex]

Well MMF is even harder to get to

[sharp epoch]

damage doesnt matter unless it hits breakpoints typically which 4% doesnt change that mich

[hollow ibex]

WS is very good though

[gilded raft]

You're always taking iron will anyway, and often it's worth going for the unyielding damage right above it too

[hollow ibex]

For obvious reasons

[calm shard]

if this was true then ogryns bleed on hit talent would be ass

any damage is good damage

breakpoints are relevant for what weapon perks you take, and specific weapons

[gilded raft]

Except it applies to any dots running at the time as well

[calm shard]

recon lasgun doesn't give a shit about breakpoints

plasma gun cares a lot

[sharp epoch]

Bleed on hit is good because it gives him like 20% damage resist or something on another talent

[gilded raft]

Ws if you're a hybrid build, focus target if you're a shooter

[sharp epoch]

dots on one target 😬

its better running any other free damage node than that keystone

[broken spade]

unlike other buffs, focus target is multiplicative with everything, including itself
so actually it's 21.6% 🤓
also it has a minimum stack of 1 and refunds 1 on killing the target so your minimum is effectively 2 stacks on everything you ping

[hollow ibex]

This is the way

[gilded raft]

On a 100k health burgle on h40 while your team is dodging the twins and a chaos spawn... Yeah... 20%

[sharp epoch]

I haven't seen any focus target vets on h40s actually this iteration

[gilded raft]

No keystone builds are still popular, since you can afford shredder spams with that approach

So you'll see a lot of that

[earnest dew]

Interesting every vet I have played with at 40 runs focus target.

[gilded raft]

But why are you trying to go hybrid and melee stuff with an oggy and a zealot on your team? You're better off shooting specialists while they do the brawling better than you would anyway

[gilded raft]

Same here. I do

[sharp epoch]

It's just necessary, vet has to contribute to kill the melee elites and bosses or you just get overwhelmed

[earnest dew]

You don't need Weapon spec for that.

[sharp epoch]

especially since book zealot is not swinging most the time

[gilded raft]

Then you need to play with some skilled ogryns more

[deft mauve]

whats the dump stat for power sword

[gilded raft]

That's a crappy book zealot

[narrow frost]

Path made a weapon guide

its in the pinned message

[deft mauve]

i cant find it

[sharp epoch]

A good ogryn just applies thunderous stacks is all I need

[sharp epoch]

Also you can still easily do your job and melee at the same time

[orchid hemlock]

Brother

#veteran-class message

[deft mauve]

thanks

[warm idol]

if im running a recon build with vic is it worth dropping shock trooper?

it seems like the mk6 is already pretty damn ammo efficient without it

[deft mauve]

damn the stats are not what i want on this sowrd ;-;

[hollow ibex]

Yeah if you want. I typically take surv or shock trooper on recon. Not both.

[sharp epoch]

depends what difficulty

auric malestrom+ you need it, damnation nah

[hollow ibex]

Don’t think you need it anywhere

[sharp epoch]

havoc you would if it was even viable there

[hollow ibex]

You should be using melee most of the time anyways still

I can see the argument for havoc

[sharp epoch]

shouldn't be how a ranged class is designed especially if you compare it to psyker

[gilded raft]

For vets, we have an option for melee, but we're mostly the gun guy. Weapon spec allows hybrid builds but otherwise, the gun is the star of the show

Kinda like how a zealot can do good blasting with a flamer or a bolter but he's mostly a punchy boy

So in high havoc, i prefer to be great at 1 thing, shooting, rather than multitasking into the job someone else should be doing

Gotta trust your team

[calm shard]

I'm wondering if Mk IX infantry lasgun might be worth using in new havoc for its unyielding damage

[manic moon]

Sure

Grief urself for all map

To do less dmg to monsters than plamsa/recon

Sounds like a great idea

[sharp epoch]

Unfortunately, the way the game is designed were basically forced into melee so might as well just get good at that yknow. Psyker can get away with being the "gun"
guy and just stay ranged the whole
time because of ammo, but vet can't

[manic moon]

Idk man vet feels really limited in wep selection

Anyone got a fun build for 40?

Anyone tried shovels yet?

[sharp epoch]

Vet and Zealot kinda feel constrained in their weapon choices for havoc at least

[manic moon]

Only did 40 with psword yet

Zealot? Absolutely not

[sharp epoch]

plasma/psword and flamer/ds is what I see usually

[manic moon]

Hsword, dclaw, ds, knife, crusher, relic and chain axe are all great options

His range is limited yes

[sharp epoch]

80% of those wouldn't do well due to the crusher spam of high havoc

[manic moon]

Its pretty much flamethrower everything else is B choice

Well i did 40 with all of those

And crusher spam ahouldnt be a problem for zealot

[sharp epoch]

I suppose you could run anything that crits alot if your just relic spamming

I mean book spamming

[tall torrent]

Only veteran

3 good melee
3 good ranged

[manic moon]

Honestly with density becoming way higher and too many ppl taking ds i found runs go much smoother if you take a 2nd llawnmower melee

[warm idol]

is recon bad in havoc?

I thought it was a solid option there

[manic moon]

Its great

[tall torrent]

Top 3 vet ranged

[sharp epoch]

Not really, you can't kill specials behind enemies

[manic moon]

U tried shovels in high hav?

[warm idol]

I was using it earlier in an auric mael and a 25 havoc and didn't really run into ammo issues tbf (was the only vet)

[sharp epoch]

still can't with plasma if its a bulwark or crusher but it pierces through normal horde at least

[warm idol]

without shock

and I heard people say it's one of the better guns for havoc

[sharp epoch]

the ammo scales with havoc

so you get less on higher havocs

[manic moon]

The biggest problem is that sti

Still

95% of vets power budget are in shout and nades

[tall torrent]

It’s only “ok” with boltpistol frag spam

[sharp epoch]

It's one of the better guns but its miles behind the best yknow

[tall torrent]

Because uncanny is op and AoN is bugged on shovel & tac axe

[warm idol]

best being?

[sharp epoch]

plasma

[manic moon]

Thats what i do with every build

[tall torrent]

Strongest vet melee is power sword VI and I rly don’t think anything else is close

[sharp epoch]

the only ranged weapons with a lot of cleave vets have

thats why flamer, purge, rumbler are all very good, infinite cleave

[manic moon]

Yeah psword retains its bromentum clearing

[warm idol]

tbh that's what i'm doing usually

melee for hordes and ranged for shooters and specials

[manic moon]

Other weapons lose their 1hit potential and no bromentum

Chain weps other than axe for anti boss are dogwater

[tall torrent]

It’s the best melee for that exact purpose but it’s not good enough in basically every metric

[warm idol]

figures

guess nothing has changed since I last played lul

[manic moon]

Im just trying to cook any other build but it seems fruitless

[warm idol]

lemme guess it's plasma + ps6/rashad with weapon specialist

that is considered the best

[sharp epoch]

yup

[manic moon]

Its allways shout, grenade, xxl tag

[tall torrent]

Just play ogryn, u can build for x400+% of melee damage easily with new ogryn tree melee spec

[sharp epoch]

or not even weapon specialist just frag spam, cause vet keystones are hard to path to

[warm idol]

I did try a grenade build with bolt pistol and dueling sword and that felt pretty strong too

[tall torrent]

Don’t think vet will get major changes before 2026

[manic moon]

My vet is lagging behind by a good 200 levels to others

Was thinking wat about the headhunter ones? The double tapoer semi autos

[warm idol]

I wonder if vet will get a rework like with ogryn

keystone wise I feel like the bottom left one is really weak compared to WS and FT

and even FT feels eh

due to the amount of specials on higher difficulties

[sharp epoch]

FT is most useless

doesnt scale well

[manic moon]

Thats one of the best for high havoc

[warm idol]

I just like WS for the attack speed on melee plus on your toes is pretty goated

[tall torrent]

It is what it is

[manic moon]

Ft+ogryn taunt and the bosses explode into +50% dmg taken

[tall torrent]

Vet needs more good melee weapons

[sharp epoch]

Its a debuff for one enemy when you can buff yourself and apply that to a lot of enemies

[tall torrent]

The only melee weapon properly optimized for vet’s talent tree & breakpoints is power sword VI rn

[warm idol]

I still want the ability to run a melee and one handed gun together

[sharp epoch]

and its 10 seconds for a full charge of FT, 10 seconds in havoc is a long time

[manic moon]

Thats a debuff for the entire team on the specific targets which do matter

[warm idol]

for a sergeant/commissar vibe

[tall torrent]

2026 and later, maybe

[sharp epoch]

Other than bosses its not really that good

[warm idol]

anyway if I wanna run a recon build for high havoc is shock trooper a must have or can I live without it?

if so what should I drop for it

trench or rending?

or the crit chance node

[manic moon]

But the left keystone is generally very weak not just compared to tag and ws

[warm idol]

fatshark working at the speed of government

[manic moon]

Its the worst in the entire game

[tall torrent]

Next one is zealot tree rework

They do need a tree rework more than veteran

Veteran at least has variety even though only 2 core build paths rly matter

[sharp epoch]

Left keystone got clowned on since its inception, they make it hardest thing to juggle out of all the classes, no moving, land weakspot hits, etc

[manic moon]

It feels like vets dont really have cohesive paths just some insanely strong node by themselves which you take every build

[warm idol]

I feel like survivalist was a mistake since it's inception

like free ammo has so much value

unless you are in a group with another vet you have no reason not to take it

[sharp epoch]

Oh no they already nerfed it hard

[tall torrent]

Survivalist only rly matters for like 3 guns outside of havoc and CIVI

[sharp epoch]

used to give ammo every elite/specialist

[warm idol]

civi?

[manic moon]

Idk why zealot needs rework tho

[tall torrent]

No ammo spawn maelstrom

[warm idol]

yeah I remember I first played on launch lol

that was a funny time

[manic moon]

Just remove invocation and ppl will use other stuff

[warm idol]

I am really glad they made weapon progression so much better

even if melk tokens still feel useless

[tall torrent]

Core kit far too strong
Rest of the stuff completely useless

[manic moon]

Thats true but does zealot really need it over vet?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[manic moon]

Oo

Dang 0 hesitatuon

[sharp epoch]

Idk just rework whichever is the weakest class

[tall torrent]

I think vet’s tree is just taxed too much

[manic moon]

No

[tall torrent]

Too bloated

[manic moon]

Make a new one

[tall torrent]

More of vet’s problems are weapons

Weapons need to be better

And scale specifically better for vet

Zealot doesn’t have issues with weapon selection

They just have 1 build

So talent tree rework yes it’s a higher priority

[calm shard]

Mk IX and VIc Recon actually have quite similar boss damage (implying you land every shot)

builds used left is infantry las, right is recon

[sharp epoch]

They need to buff the guns too, like the infantry lasguns and autoguns are just sitting in the dust

[calm shard]

it's the build I would actually use with the weapon

[manic moon]

Bro i wont go into this rcon lasgun is among the easiest wep to use and has 0 recoil while inf lasgun gl hitting weakspot hits inside a h40 carnage

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/bYOWpjc

https://imgur.com/a/NJ46S7h

[manic moon]

Yeah gl doing this in live game

[calm shard]

I do it with helbore

and sometimes shotgun as a meme

[sharp epoch]

chaos spawn is even worse the head is like a centimeter big

[calm shard]

though tbh recon is held back by having to reload

which would probably be less likely in an actual match with reciprocity stacks

Mk IX infantry las does kill reapers, bulwarks, and specialists faster

just because it takes less time to deal its damage

outright one shotting most things is a pretty nice novelty

despite its issues

But then y'know MK VII does that too for almost everything and has way more ammo soooooooooooo

[tall torrent]

It’s at best 1 less headshot than VII

[manic moon]

Again it sounds nice doesnt work

[tall torrent]

I think majority of weapons in this game need buffs

[manic moon]

Recon you can shoot even the back of the mobs tho obviously not the goal

If you dont score weakspot hits with infantry its dmg and ammo economy falls through the fllor

[calm shard]

It's actually 2 less if you crit even once

[manic moon]

Floor*

[calm shard]

MK VII with 3 crits without changing the perks takes 6 shots to kill a Reaper

1 crit on MK IX 4 shots it

[hollow ibex]

Technically you can have like a .3 second reload with animation cancel. But I have skill issues.

[calm shard]

oh right I coulda done that you've got a good point

let me take that clip again

forgot about that

[tall torrent]

Most guns need better aimed movement speed

[calm shard]

disclaimer I did have 10 marksmans focus stacks for htis

[tall torrent]

At most 1/s sprint cost

[calm shard]

I kind of assume if I'm shooting at Reapers of all things I'm already going to have max MF from killing smaller gunners around them

[tall torrent]

Do not assume MF stacks for breakpoints

[calm shard]

I will assume them now that camouflage MF gets a stack from dodge sliding actually

[lusty ether]

I don't need no MF stacks on my MF breakpoints.

https://tenor.com/view/stare-sam-jackson-shook-shocked-scary-gif-5260044

[calm shard]

though that doesn't work in the psykhanium for some fuck ass reason

so I'll have to get a clip of it later

oh wait no it does i'm stupid

[warm idol]

so since no one answered my question

is it worth dropping the crit node for shock trooper?

on recon that is

specifically mk6

[tall torrent]

Depends on what ur tree looks like

And what u can afford

[warm idol]

ill get an image later

[tropic notch]

[calm shard]

https://imgur.com/a/bYcf9C1

I swear it didn't do this before nightmares and visions

but it has made keeping MF active very consistent against monstrosities and ogryns especially

can easily just get a headshot and dodge slide myself to full stacks during the grace period while firing and still be mobile

[hollow ibex]

I’m confused. Dodge sliding gives stacks?

[calm shard]

yeah

dodge sliding gives you one Marksman's Focus stack

[hollow ibex]

Dafuq

[calm shard]

which means that it doesn't cost an extra stack if you're not in the grace period, and it builds stacks if you are

[hollow ibex]

That must be an unrecorded change

I wonder if it’s intentional

[calm shard]

Me being the worlds only veteran player that enjoys using Marksman's Focus paying off finally

I doubt it because it still also consumes a stack when you dodge slide out of the grace period

So you'll instantly gain and then lose that stack from dodge sliding

[barren nimbus]

You’re pissing me off running that mod

[calm shard]

huh

[formal ice]

Which one of the mods?

[calm shard]

yeah there's at least 4 seperate ones visible from that

[tropic notch]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-orange-kitty-cat-fat-kitten-gif-294206017747515862

[calm shard]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[tropic notch]

What is that chud on about

Mods are awesome

[formal ice]

They aren't for me

[junior grail]

Laughs in Scope

[warm idol]

what should I change here?

[formal ice]

Why someone veterans builds don't use keystone

Some*

[warm idol]

recon doesn't really feel like it benefits all that much from any of the keystones

[tropic notch]

Catch a breath instead of get back in the fight

[formal ice]

So its a solo build?

[tropic notch]

Drop rending strikes and that node for weapons specialist

[hollow ibex]

GBITF bad

Eh you don’t really need WS for recon. Maybe if the melee really wants it

[tropic notch]

Try to get a stam regen delay node

[tall torrent]

GBITF to CaB above survivalist
Maybe drop superiority complex for shock trooper

[hollow ibex]

Otherwise I don’t bother

[crimson pebble]

no you dont understand I'm playing veteran i need to be holding down the fire button and vacuuming all the ammo the entire round melees for chumps smh

[tropic notch]

God I hate recon vets

Recon vet is like a smite psyker

Or con strike orgyn

[sharp epoch]

Recon vet takes a lot more skill at least

[heavy rover]

are you really a recon vet if you're not using deadshot tho?

[calm shard]

Veteran kinda builds around their weapons, and their weapons don't all benefit from the keystones

recon las doesn't really have finesse damage, doesn't need focus targets damage, and is full auto so weapon specialist isn't that important

[junior grail]

How is VAgun on Vet? Haven't touched in AGES

[calm shard]

it's like the infantry lasguns with less ammo

but you don't have to click heads unless it's a specialist or rager

[pseudo fiber]

The vigilant?

[calm shard]

yeah the one

[orchid hemlock]

Vigilant

[junior grail]

InfLasguns are answerphone I haven't touchedin so long too haha

[orchid hemlock]

Vigint

Vigian

[tall torrent]

Nah, still headshot reliant

[pseudo fiber]

Someone get Gale

[calm shard]

oh right the one shot bodyshot memes are an exe stance thing

forgor

[sharp epoch]

inf lasguns and autoguns got powercrept

doesnt help they nerfed exe stance vet in its first iteration

[hollow ibex]

Autoguns are still great

Vraks specifically

Agris good too though

ES in general is just harder to play

I don’t like ilas but I know some people still do

[errant carbon]

iLas isn't terrible but Laspistol ate its lunch

Recon Lasgun too, though it's not as close an analogue

[hollow ibex]

Tbf i think they serve very different niches

Problem is ilas’s niche kinda sucks, its hard to use, and talent point expensive

[stuck gorge]

whats the situations you wanna use either tho

[errant carbon]

Laspistol's advantages allow it to cover some roles that Infantry Las can't, but I can't really think of any situation where the opposite is true

[warm idol]

is rending not that good?

err I mean superiority complex

im thinking of dropping the chc node for shock

and yeah ill swap from get back in the fight

[errant carbon]

Clearing ranged enemies while using Ghost to keep yourself immune to their return fire, with high ammo efficiency because it's semi-auto, has literal laser accuracy, and works with Shock Trooper

Laspistol also has high mobility, fast draw/holster, innate crit chance bonus, and even still has a reflex sight

[warm idol]

I don't find WS that useful on recon honestly, I use it on bolt pistol and plasma and revolver tho

[hollow ibex]

Long range sniping/shooting literally the entire game

[warm idol]

I know some people really love it on any build for the power sword dodges but I find myself being fine without them

[hollow ibex]

Yeah cuz it’s not

[errant carbon]

Should be possible on Laspistol too

[tall torrent]

Well, shock trooper matters more for recon

U could drop the crit chance node as well

[hollow ibex]

Laspis isn’t great at range and ammo econ is much worse

[errant carbon]

The real question is which one has worse hitreg

Only half-joking, it feels to me like Laspistol hipfire has Revolver-level head magnetism but all las weapons have the opposite effect when aiming down sights

[serene bough]

ilas has ammo economy and better at longer ranges

In havoc id rather take the ilas over laspistol

[hollow trail]

sometimes with lasguns it feels like i land more headshots when i don’t aim

is this normal or am i weird

[serene bough]

Couldn't say, ive been consistently using the ilas for the better part of a year now

Its in both of my go to builds

[red robin]

i find myself hitting headshots but it never registers

body shot on the head

las pistol has a love hate relationship with me

[hollow ibex]

i find this happening way too often with the single shot vigilant

i gave up on the gun

[red robin]

is that my connection issue or darktide server jank?

[hollow ibex]

if there's weird hitreg issues, it's prob DT

[pseudo fiber]

Game sucks it's my favourite

[orchid hemlock]

That's because the lasgun recoil goes directly upward

[serene bough]

I find it weird the lasgun's recoil kicks like a mule

It is a laser afterall

[onyx urchin]

which dump stat is better on a shovel, mobility or defenses?

[narrow frost]

def

if you want more weapon info

[tropic notch]

Defense

[orchid hemlock]

But what if I want to push attack 8 times in a row? 🤔

[tropic notch]

Where is ur 9800x3d

[orchid hemlock]

Not until 2028

[tropic notch]

Weak

[tropic notch]

When I use ws vet it make me feel like I’m playing ultrakill

https://tenor.com/view/nervous-dog-shy-wuba-gif-17729132519060511839

[junior grail]

Anyone can point to an ilas vet build?

I struggle with making ilas good

[gilded raft]

It isn't good unless you can land headshots like a fiend

If you can, any exe stance will make it shine

But in this game, less precise, more explosive weapons tend to shine more (and easier to be good with)

[craggy goblet]

BOLTER RAHHHH

[unreal nova]

Bistol. Just shoot twice if you can't aim.

[craggy goblet]

i love the bolters in this game more than the ones in sm2

[unreal nova]

I heard they feel like nothing in SM2.

[craggy goblet]

no

[gilded raft]

Because these ones actually kill what you shoot them at

[craggy goblet]

it’s peashooters

[sharp epoch]

its just scale, to normal people bolters have recoil and blow up regular human sized enemies

[craggy goblet]

i should see them explode in one shot

but NOOO

it feels like i’m shooting fuckin PLUSHIES at the nids

[sharp epoch]

sm2 is like up against tyranids and chaos space marines

[unreal nova]

They DO feel like nothingsauce.

[craggy goblet]

100%

was pleasantly surprised here

picked it up as my ranged when i got relic blade

shot one shot

fell in love

made me go a lil tbh

shit was GOOD

[unreal nova]

Here they both kick like heck for you while decimating.

[craggy goblet]

got me like “you got more of that bolter fire”

i can’t keep using bolters tho

gotta use other weapons to get mastery

but easily top of my list so far

tho tbf, i’m fairly new

[unreal nova]

Well, you can just wave dockets at mastery problems.

[craggy goblet]

i’m broke

[errant carbon]

Yes
I found out in this chat yesterday that the Heavy Bolt Rifle needs 55 headshots to bring a Tyranid Warrior down to melee finisher range (in Absolute)

[craggy goblet]

[tall torrent]

what diff have u been playing

[craggy goblet]

stalker bolter b good

[craggy goblet]

i usually play uprising/malice until i get enough talent points to go to heresy then damnation

usually start heresy around 15

[unreal nova]

WTH is that?

[calm shard]

they're all so fucking dogshit

it's insane

and the few good ones got nerfed too

[tall torrent]

let's play damnation

[craggy goblet]

[craggy goblet]

i wish i could rn

out doing errands

[unreal nova]

55 headshots?

55???

[craggy goblet]

tbf, the boss got some beefy hp

[unreal nova]

That's like shooting things with a bloody unbuffed autopistol.

[craggy goblet]

but with the right builds, he can go down fast

[errant carbon]

Maybe the guy brought a low quality weapon into the highest difficulty but still

[craggy goblet]

auspex

[lament belfry]

why is veteran side dodge slide so small compared to all other classes?

[calm shard]

it isn't

psyker gets shorter dodges though

[gritty mural]

depends on your weapon but zealot just has a larger dodge range by default

[calm shard]

vet does have some of the weapons with the worst mobility in the game with the power sword and helbore however

[lament belfry]

ah i was using power sword. i hate it

side dodge was like half of ogryns and psykers

so it would probably help if i used 80% mobility on power sword then

[calm shard]

yeah I think cleave targets is its dump

[gritty mural]

mobility is still gonna be abysmal with it being the lowest in the game

[calm shard]

its mobility is still bad

in an attempt to nerf the power sword fatshark instead of nerfing the problem (5 hits with power cycler) they first tried making it feel like shit to use

by nerfing its mobility severely

[queen roost]

What melee and ranged weapon are other vets running?

[wispy zephyr]

las pistol and dagger

[calm shard]

power sword and infantry las atm

[queen roost]

They have power sword for vet?

[wispy zephyr]

its the only power sword yes

[calm shard]

uh yeah they had it first it's a 1 handed power sword

[calm shard]

zealot relic blade

[wispy zephyr]

thats the relic blade

[calm shard]

yes

which is a two handed...power sword

[wispy zephyr]

i think we name things for reasons

[craggy goblet]

some random guy gets a 2H power sword before astartes do

i’m pissed

[errant carbon]

It's funny cause in the Deathwatch RPG the Relic Blade is one of the hardest weapons to qualify for, you need to be a literal Hero among Space Marines to even think about requisitioning one. And here we are sorting through dozens of them in Brunt's Armory

[tall torrent]

it's not lowest in game

[tall torrent]

they don't

[errant carbon]

Maybe we can hear a little less about how Fatshark can't put a scope on the Helbore because "we're just disposable Rejects, we're not supposed to have nice things!

[craggy goblet]

[calm shard]

this isn't call of duty

[errant carbon]

clutching my pearls rn at the immeasurable complexity

[calm shard]

I wonder when the first functioning build of the weapon customization mod was uploaded

[tropic notch]

Our vets are at or better than tempestus scions

Our zealots are sisters of battle

[errant carbon]

We're not even in the same economy as actual Guardsmen anymore

[craggy goblet]

i wish

[tropic notch]

Mine is

[craggy goblet]

they’re too scared to give us REAL SoB armor

[craggy goblet]

i’d even take repentia too

just something

[errant carbon]

Logisticians legit have to worry about the expense of outfitting Guardsmen deployed en masse and whether it's worth it to give them the latest tacticool slop from Maggus Pullus

Our dudes were recruited by people who would normally have told us to go swallow a bolt shell, specifically because they were critically short on warm bodies

[tropic notch]

Yeah and our rejects already use broken equipment

That’s why losse cannon and the judge get angry when reloading

[errant carbon]

We are utterly showered in equipment and can cherry pick the best bits to have our tech priest personally reforge and reconsecrate

[craggy goblet]

but we get a power sword and a BOLTER

[tropic notch]

A power sword that turns off

A thammer that turns off

[craggy goblet]

…you right

why can’t they be on resource like relic blade

[tropic notch]

Scratched and dented equipment

[craggy goblet]

cuz so far, that’s the best power weapon i used

[errant carbon]

Discount Force Weapons by the dozen

[craggy goblet]

imagine constantly shooting warp beams

[errant carbon]

Also Voidbeam Staff when

[craggy goblet]

mmmm

perfect

i’m sure the other offerings of psyker is nice, but melee psyker has been wayyyy too much fun

[mellow adder]

Very cool Melk, Ty ❤️

[lament belfry]

what's the best way to survive havoc 30s-40 on veteran? which traits regen toughness the best?

[tropic notch]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d51275b-f9c4-4494-9b88-bfafbbbf4981/terrible-vet-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

Just replace the melee with a power sword and ranged with a plasma or bolt pistol ect

[wispy zephyr]

you grab stamina regen reduction instead of a toughness node?

[tropic notch]

Vets main job it’s specialist control

[tropic notch]

Yeah he has the lowest stam regen delay ever

Pretty sure orgyns is better

[calm shard]

Veterans base stamina regen delay is 1.25 seconds

for reference it's 0.75 for Zealot and Ogryn

and 0.5 for Psyker

[hollow ibex]

Cucked so hard

[craggy goblet]

why tf

[tropic notch]

But this is my personal preference @tall torrent is more knowledgeable than me about havoc vet

[tall torrent]

no

veteran base is 1s

[tropic notch]

I’d try the mk 3 ps with a sunder

[calm shard]

ah darn

overestimated

or was it 1.25 before class rework

[hollow ibex]

Hope you enjoy suffering

[tropic notch]

Ok maybe the mk 6

[tall torrent]

1.25s initially after patch 13, changed quickly to 1s

[hollow ibex]

Much better

[calm shard]

right

that's why

[craggy goblet]

but that one perk just brings it down to baseline zealot and ogryn?

[tropic notch]

Didn’t they fix it switching off?

[hollow ibex]

Yesnt

[tropic notch]

What the shrimp

[hollow ibex]

You still lose charge if hit while attacking

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

no

[tropic notch]

Incredible

[hollow ibex]

Don’t get me wrong. Still better than before, but cmon fatshart

[tall torrent]

veteran 1s, 1/s
zealot 0.75s, 1.5/s
psyker 0.5s, 1/s
ogryn 1s, 1/s

psyker has shortest regen delay
zealot has best regen rate

[calm shard]

ogryn stamina regen delay is not 1 second

it does not feel like that at all

[hollow ibex]

Zealot has not been skipping cardio

[tropic notch]

Good weapons for havoc are probably the combat axe mk 3 and power sword mk 6

[wispy zephyr]

oh i wasnt the one asking for help, i just was curious about the stamina node

[hollow ibex]

The get a lot of stamina, so I imagine the recharge feels slower

[tall torrent]

sorry to inform u of being wrong

[tropic notch]

Oh yeah it’s really important

[tall torrent]

it's just power sword VI

[tropic notch]

Ok real

What do you use on it in havoc?

Same blessings?

[tall torrent]

carapace
elite
power cycler
brutal momentum

[tropic notch]

Cara?

Oh right havoc

[calm shard]

man even combat axe doesn't keep up in new havoc huh

[tropic notch]

I wouldn’t doubt it

[wispy zephyr]

still run plasma in havoc yeah?

[tall torrent]

yea

saves u 2 points

[tropic notch]

Yeah

[tall torrent]

don't need bring it down

for crusher 2 tap

[tropic notch]

I thought the combo was enough

[tall torrent]

orange messes with breakpoints
and red nullifies ur stagger

it kills slower than power sword VI

[tropic notch]

Pa, strike down, light

[tall torrent]

and in current havoc u really want to kill things fast

[tropic notch]

Very true

[tall torrent]

power sword VI
recon, plasma, boltpistol

[wispy zephyr]

bolt pistol with puncture/lethal?

[tall torrent]

yez

[calm shard]

I'm using infantry las at the moment, and it's okay

[tropic notch]

What will happen if you finish the zealot guide

I’m scared for path

[calm shard]

you get a bit faster specialist, elite, and shooter kills compared to recon

at the cost of like

all of your unyielding damage

and having to aim more

Ghost is a nice novelty

[tropic notch]

He’ll grow too powerful

[tall torrent]

I prob won't

there're 3 other people working on it

[tropic notch]

Ok he’s safe

Another one saved

Also I’m very happy I listened about unarmored bp

[tall torrent]

dorn, vodka and ainz are working on zealot guide

[tropic notch]

I’m so happy they die in one hit

[tall torrent]

kuli, me, gale and ainz are working on vet guide

[tropic notch]

I kneel

[calm shard]

this ainz guy sure gets around

[tropic notch]

Where’s the psyker guide

He’s awesome

[tall torrent]

pygex has one

even though controversial

[tropic notch]

I need to duo with him

[tropic notch]

Is he in chat?

[tall torrent]

he helps new players so I dragged him as contributor so he can directly send ss of my guide when needed

[tall torrent]

ya he doesn't talk often tho

[tropic notch]

Damm

How could a guide be controversial

Well I know how but why

[hollow ibex]

Just controversial takes

Idr the specifics though

[tropic notch]

True

[craggy goblet]

ainz is goated

[tropic notch]

I mean I hate ER on psyker and Kinetic flayer

If I had an extra point that didn’t give me toughness I’d put it in kf

[tall torrent]

KF is better than 15 toughness

esp now that soulblaze ticks can proc KF

[tropic notch]

I love toughness

I love the blue bar

[tall torrent]

sorry but ur fate is to get 2 tapped by a bruiser that spawned behind u

[tropic notch]

[wispy zephyr]

I cant open vet guide 💀

[tropic notch]

I had a crusher moon walk on me as my zealot yesterday

[tall torrent]

u may want to download it

as pdf

onedrive web page is quite jank

[wispy zephyr]

yeah thats true. i got it open, just took some shenanigans

[tall torrent]

the pinned link is not fully up to date

if u have specific questions, better to ask

[wispy zephyr]

well ik the guide doesnt have builds which would be the only questions i have

[tall torrent]

u can always dm

[wispy zephyr]

bet

[errant carbon]

Worth a lot more than 15 toughness when a pox burster with 1 stack gets KF'ed in my face

[tall torrent]

just gamble better

[uncut pebble]

I wish they'd put a restriction on bursters so kf doesn't fucking kill you.

Too many times do I draw my force sword and do the double push only to get murdered by kf.

[bleak cradle]

Skill issue tbh. Just don’t double push

And by double push I mean push attack

[uncut pebble]

Double push is double push, push attack is the attack after double push.

[bleak cradle]

Sure

Still. Just don’t do the proc push.

[signal zinc]

I accidentally sacrificed every chainsword in my inventory

Woe is me for not favorite-ing any of em

[hollow ibex]

sooo

nothing of value was lost

[faint beacon]

Unfortunate super truth nova

[signal zinc]

Damn is the chainsword that bad

I only use the shovel or the tactical axe

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's not great rn

[signal zinc]

Sadge

[hollow ibex]

cadia fell because of chainswords

[signal zinc]

Mfw you realize Cadia fell because Abbadon threw a giant rock at it

[faint beacon]

Abbadon baby raged and threw a fucking oversized rock at it

[tropic notch]

I’m getting radiation poisoning from theses truth nukes

[calm shard]

chainsword is so bad that it doesn't even feel good on melee psyker

the highest damage boost in the game cannot save that weapons horrendous damage output

[tropic notch]

I mean it does have the fastest trash hoard clear

Something to do with wrath

And how it’s finesse on cleave is boosted by it

Someone was saying the relic blade trails behind it

[tall torrent]

not enough stagger

[gilded wraith]

Is it weird that I want steady grip on the Marksman's Focus path?

[tall torrent]

no

[serene bough]

Good melee weapons have an answer to armor threats

Lots of weapons can deal with hordes or at least manage them

[tropic notch]

@signal zinc it’s good but not the best use what you like to use though

For instance I love the devils claw

It sucks

But it has parry

It’s also the best weapon in the game

[tropic notch]

Those are good

Tac axe struggles on vet but psyker and zealot benefit from it better

[junior grail]

How does psyker benefit the taxe?

[errant carbon]

Lots of talents that benefit from crits, on a weapon that has an innate bonus crit chance, and swings very fast (i.e. crits more)

[junior grail]

Hmmm which taxe is recommended on Psyker?

[hollow ibex]

prob VII

i tried IV, did not fair well

[junior grail]

What about mk2?

[hollow ibex]

afaik most people just prefer mk vii to ii

iv is unique because it's light spam focused

vii and ii require actual combos

so between those two, most people pick vii

[tough tiger]

Tac axes have combos?

I thought its literally just m1 the weapon

[split grove]

so for havoc 40 does plasma change its perks

[calm shard]

absurd damage and finesse boosts make it one shot a lot of things

taxe horde clear is push attack into heavy loop and psyker has best stamina regen

[regal belfry]

what do you think about the infantry lasgun and vigilant autoguns and do you think they are viable compared to recon, infantry autogun, braced autogun and laspistol

[dry cloak]

Ima they are

[calm shard]

infantry lasgun is good, but laspistol just does the same thing better p much

[dry cloak]

Yeah

Vigil autos are fun for sniping

But iags are just better

[calm shard]

and the infantry lasguns are also basically just vigilant autogun but better

braced autogun just fuckin' sucks

[regal belfry]

so literaly laspistol>ilg>vag

[calm shard]

vraks and agri infantry autoguns are pretty great

yeah

infantry lasgun has the benefit of way more ammo than laspistol though

[dry cloak]

Yeah

I use mk3 vigil

To great succes

[signal zinc]

You forgot the secret downside of every semi auto guns in this game

Carpel tunnel

[regal belfry]

thats why i don't use the rapid fire laspistol or ilg

[signal zinc]

There is a mod that lets you fire full auto

[dry cloak]

Mk10 laspitol is better for me

[regal belfry]

yes the heavy laspistol is fun

[signal zinc]

Sometimes I run the autopistol for shits and giggles

...and immediately regret it

[dry cloak]

The thing is

Yesterday i brought the shredder with exe stance

The effectiveness suprised me

[regal belfry]

shredder is meh on zealot, for far targets i use knifes

[dry cloak]

The finnese buff it got helped shredder

[split grove]

on havoc 40 i feel like plasma breakpoints are broken

[signal zinc]

I have a blue infantry lasgun I main

That thing has never let me down

[dry cloak]

I would like for some single fiee weapons to have built in autofire

At slower rate than actually spamming fire button

[calm shard]

why slower rate

shouldn't nerf the weapons just for convenience

[regal belfry]

slower rate, higher per shot damage

[signal zinc]

Yeah just use the full auto mod for now

If else just to spare your wrist

[dry cloak]

I do not want to nerf guns

[signal zinc]

The machine spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

[regal belfry]

i play staff psykers...

staffs with automod could have issues

[dry cloak]

Meant as in if you hold fire button it shoot but slower than spam clicking

[signal zinc]

There are options to disable it for charge weapons

Idk I only play vet because hehe normal guy with guns

[regal belfry]

plasma charge

[signal zinc]

You can set that to semi auto

[split grove]

anyone have a havoc 40 plasma + rashad build i can copy

[regal belfry]

i hope vet gets the longlas

[austere mica]

Longlas would be weird for Darktide’s design

All our engagements are within 60m tops

Usually less than 30

[regal belfry]

more firepower sharge weapon

[ancient wolf]

You misunderstand, you use the longlas as a close range shotgun

[regal belfry]

i thought as a anti monster or carapace weapon

[austere mica]

We have one of those

[manic moon]

rashad drops off a cliff in havoc since its struggles to keep BPs for bromentum but thats not exlcusive for veteran its the same on zela/psyker too

[austere mica]

Two even

[regal belfry]

hellbore fells awkward and plasma is neat

[split grove]

then what u recommend

[manic moon]

you know the answer .... and neither of us likes it 😢

[split grove]

you're right, i despise this answer

[manic moon]

the only wep i found for vet in high havoc other than ds is psword 6

devil claw would be usable but its pathetic vs bosses and carapace

rest simply suck

maces dont kill anything

shovels have dmg and qol problems , getting denied from a kill cuz the mob gets healed inbetween the folded attack dmg ticks is giga annoying

chain weps just no

[frail topaz]

I’ve been using power Sword & Plasma gun and get high rounds with havoc but you need the support of teammates to maximise the synergy

[sharp epoch]

Yeah taunt ogryn, book zealot, and bubble psyker is best comp

[frail topaz]

For real 100%

[calm shard]

book zealot at least at mid havocs honestly feels C tier

you need to kill shit fast in this new havoc

and chorus is the exact opposite of that

dome is kinda shit for similar reasons

shooters ain't what they used to be, and you're doing way less damage by chosing it

[normal bay]

Unless it's pox gas

Still poor damage output but the corruption removal...

[calm shard]

yeah

[regal belfry]

i like zealot rush or stealth more

[tough tiger]

Stealth zealot in havoc or how to contribute nothing to the team

[sharp epoch]

The 25% damage buff is nice and locking a boss in place makes it die faster

[cinder token]

I wanted to say that I immediately felt better about playing vet when I specced into this build and ditched my Infantry Lasgun

thank you again!

[calm shard]

it's 30% after multiple seconds of you doing fuck all

and hitting a boss with your emperor given high boss damage melee weapons makes it die faster

[sharp epoch]

There's value in supporting teammates book does both damage buff and gives you gold toughness and the uptime is shorter than shout typically

[austere mica]

The side nodes aren’t worth taking

[regal belfry]

i like vet shout

[sharp epoch]

wat 25% damage for 10 seconds is amazing

[austere mica]

Not compared to your other talents

It’s making a taxed ability even more expensive for limited benefit

[sharp epoch]

its like one point for 25%+ damage for your whole team and you its way worth it

[austere mica]

For 10 seconds on the longest cooldown ability

It’s only worth taking if you’ve a single remaining point and nothing else available

[sharp epoch]

please, you can get it back within 10 seconds of swinging your sword with a crit build

[austere mica]

No

You can’t

It’s 20 seconds with full IoD uptime

[normal bay]

10s in coherency, while your character actively does nothing setting it up.

It's nothing special

[austere mica]

There are almost always better options

[regal belfry]

i like zealots rush ability most

[normal bay]

Compared to the output of fotf and the ability to charge down major threats

[regal belfry]

vet i use mostly the shout

wished vets stealth was similar to huntsman and zealots similar to shades

[sharp epoch]

Anything with infinite cleave and staggers anything is worth taking, FOTF kills like one crusher

[austere mica]

FotF gives attack speed and immunity

Also confirm crits are great

[regal belfry]

and toughness regen

[austere mica]

Chorus turns you off for the channel and relying on your teammates in quickplay is just a bad idea

FotF is better survivability

[regal belfry]

i hate to use chorus

[austere mica]

(For you)

[sharp epoch]

I'm not talking about quickplay I'm talking about h40s party finder or premade

[austere mica]

FotF is still good in havoc if your team can function

[sharp epoch]

fotf is really only good for the zealot itself, but book helps the whole team way more

[normal bay]

Charging into a big group of ranged enemies to force them into melee is extremely useful

[austere mica]

Not really

Killing elites faster is a team benefit

[sharp epoch]

you can do the same thing with book just walk at them with it out they get suppressed

[austere mica]

And are still alive

[sharp epoch]

have you guys even beat a h40 with fotf? the new one?

[normal bay]

You don't have the same uptime or the same distance you can cover

[austere mica]

I don’t have friends for havoc, but I know plenty of people who do play FotF in havoc

[normal bay]

Personally no but plenty have

[austere mica]

I know someone who uses fuckin evisc mk3 and pulls 1.5 mil damage

[sharp epoch]

damage numbers dont mean anything if you dont have the mission time

all im saying is try fotf on havoc and see how that goes