veteran-class

[sleek garden]

They fire where they last saw you (in most cases), flanking is actually possible in this game

[tame lodge]

Oh the secondary?
Vraks 5, plasma, Bolter, bolt Pistol, double barrel

[regal bramble]

Looool I’ve been running recon lasgun but it takes so much to take out armored enemies even with all the buffs

[tame lodge]

Zarona revolver

[sleek garden]

Not like a 'you're stupid' type of 'actually', I mean I've ran around a building and opened fire on a bunch of shooters firing where they last saw me and took them by surprise

Because they're suddenly out of cover you force them to stop what they're shooting at and reposition

[faint beacon]

It’s the mindset of just kill them

Issue is when there’s multiple gunners

In play

All shooting you

[sleek garden]

Yeah

I've had zealot moron players run down an alley straight at shooters and die halfway there and complain how unbalanced they are

Just like

Shoot back

Idk

[faint beacon]

And yes sometimes the game will just plop a gunner pack out of thin air and they’ll immediately set up a Killzone

[regal bramble]

Shiiiiii I hate that about zealot players

Constantly just running off to death for no reason💀

[sleek garden]

Zealot is fun but half the people who play it are morons

[faint beacon]

Two things I can recommend when swarmed by gun fire

[sleek garden]

Slide and cover

[faint beacon]

Actually using suppression and that

Or

A wacky thing called explosives

[sleek garden]

Yeah they're why I take stuns on zealot

[wanton dawn]

Getting gud is also an option

[regal bramble]

Wish people would use their grenades more

[sleek garden]

I've been enlightened with smoke grenades

[hollow ibex]

Not a true zealot then

[sleek garden]

That and bulwark packs

Screw those

[faint beacon]

I’m constantly tossing shredders lmao

[sleek garden]

Me too

[regal bramble]

Mutant waves are aids brother

[hollow ibex]

I take flamer for that tbh

[sleek garden]

I love getting them back every 3 seconds

[faint beacon]

Like I don’t think I’m ever at max frags

[regal bramble]

Having 20 mutants charging at once is cancer

[hollow ibex]

I don’t use any other gun on zealot

[sleek garden]

Do flamers go through bulwark shields now

I thought they didn't

[hollow ibex]

They do yeah

You can wipe an entire pack

[sleek garden]

I like using guns on zealot now

[hollow ibex]

From the front

It’s glorious

[regal bramble]

I’d like to say I wish they’d add a mechanic so downed players can body block for me lmaoo

That would be amazing🤣🤣

[sleek garden]

They do

[regal bramble]

Bs

[sleek garden]

Have you never hid behind a downed or captured ogryn

[regal bramble]

Yep🥲

[sleek garden]

They take shots for you

[empty root]

Hellbore is ammo neutral with survivalist

[regal bramble]

I got 360 noscoped by a pox sniper

[faint beacon]

Usually positive

Usually

Shocktrooper you’ll always be positive

[regal bramble]

Smokes are trash

[terse idol]

Naw

They're a ghetto psyker bubble

[regal bramble]

Lmaoo🤣

[terse idol]

I ain't wrong

[faint beacon]

Smudgels isn’t wrong

[terse idol]

Like they were worse before but now they block snipers

[regal bramble]

Ohhhh shit really👀

[faint beacon]

Smokes can force gunners out of positions as well

[crude fiber]

Smokes are pretty good imo, someone gets caught by a gunner reaper hoard you can pop a smoke and get the revive no problem. Or use them to push down gunner alleys

[faint beacon]

Tossing smokes onto ranged units flushes them out of areas

You can use them both aggressively and defensively

[regal bramble]

Ouuuuu

[empty root]

Smoke meta!

[faint beacon]

It’s not meta at all

But don’t knock it till you try it

It’s genuinely useful

[pale sand]

https://tenor.com/view/morgan-freeman-true-morgan-freeman-true-nodding-gif-13973817878387504960

[dusty hedge]

it's maybe meta for Havocs tbh since negating ranged threats is priority #1 there

mainly mid to upper Havocs

[faint beacon]

Shredders are better but yes

Smokes are a good second

[pale sand]

and pushing back gay baby gunners and elite gunners is mega useful on havoc esp. w/ 15s duration.

[faint beacon]

Kraks ironically enough in havoc

Are the worst option

[regal bramble]

Bruhhhh I wanna run havoc I wanna unlock everything

[pale sand]

if you are using smokes as a tax node they are good.

[regal bramble]

At lvl 12 for havoc 😎

[faint beacon]

25+ is when Havoc starts becoming

Actually havoc

So you can kinda run whatever till then

[hollow ibex]

Ok if you’re the third vet on the team for whatever reason

[regal bramble]

Sounds rough but down for the challenge after work sadly gotta watch the baby while I play🥲

[faint beacon]

Counter argument

More smokes

More dollar store psyker domes

Yummy yummy value

[tame lodge]

Bring a bubble psyker with smokes

Plop bubble
Smoke bubble

Stay inside smoke
Enemies won't shoot bubble

Free toughness replenish

[faint beacon]

Holy value

I wish it worked like that LMAO

[tame lodge]

[faint beacon]

Cause they shoot the area around it which will inevitably drop the bubble

But still I can argue

If no one wants to do bubble

Minimum bring smokes

[orchid hemlock]

Smokes are great for Havocs

The problem is how many points u need to waste to get smokes AND survival

[faint beacon]

Yup

Extremely taxing

It’s the veteran skill tree drawback

[orchid hemlock]

Because smokes basically turn half of the shooters into melees

[faint beacon]

I’d kill to do more Exe Smoke builds cause they’re incredibly fun

But holy shit theyre so taxing

[crimson wyvern]

imagine getting this far and losing your past 10 games, definately not me

[empty root]

the biggest problem with smokes is no shredder

[sleek garden]

Bring devils claw

[empty root]

what happens when ragers are inside your bubble

[sleek garden]

Party

A party with lots of cogwheel axes

[hard lichen]

Ayo dap me up what's the meta builds for each ability

[empty root]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d852e14-3114-485d-b6cd-cb8915cb07ff/the-current-best-veteran-build-imo

[regal bramble]

Yoink

[empty root]

its not perfect but generally thats what havoc vets run

[regal bramble]

Bro my nose is so stuffed

[hard lichen]

Been running the laser pointer recon meme with VoC for everything else, but I imagine plasma is realistically going to be a lot better for havoc, yeah.

[empty root]

laser pointer recon meme apparently works for getting around the pus hardened skin modifier

i would say plasma and recon are the 2 meta builds rn

[hard lichen]

Oh nice.

[foggy tusk]

does anyone know for the focus target penance, can i use executioner stance to make it go faster or do i need to just tag and kill?

[empty root]

Just use it naturally

[orchid hemlock]

Tanner

🤮

[foggy tusk]

ty!

[orchid hemlock]

Wait I always wanted to ask, @tall torrent

Do u think this is the best plasma build for Havoc? #veteran-class message

Because I'm thinking that DS is a wasted opportunity when u have WS

Get that Rashad BB 😤

[empty root]

Rashad would be an easy swap

[faint beacon]

Well I know for damn fact it’s not going to be breakpoint built seeing 35+ throws that out the window

[empty root]

Although the mobility profile of the ds4 is the biggest draw in havoc

Not the damage

[orchid hemlock]

I'm mostly worried about the wave clear

[empty root]

With the bottom right talents the ds4 horde clear is fine

You also get steady shredders

[orchid hemlock]

Into mixed hordes? Not rly, no it isn't going to cut it

U will need to rely on the shredders or your allies

[empty root]

The ds4 horde clear feels much better on that build than my chorus zealot

[orchid hemlock]

Like yes DS is useful for survival

But when u really need to thin out those hordes, it's not going to cut it

[empty root]

Mixed hordes you drop nades, then focus down key targets with Plasma and ds4 heavy poke

[orchid hemlock]

I want to play Rashad more on havocs tho, the problem is that it's difficult to go WS on guns that need Infernus

[orchid hemlock]

Why not both?

[empty root]

Both what

[orchid hemlock]

Wave clear and elite killing?

Also Rashad is better at dealing with rager hordes

[empty root]

Rashad isn't bad I would put it along side ds4

[orchid hemlock]

CDR and stamina on the curios is also a bit questionable

But then again all defensive curio stats are gutted in Havoc so it doesn't really matter

I think the only class that can take advantage of CDR effectively is Psyker

[terse idol]

critical hit chance

[bleak cradle]

Glory be to psykinetic’s aura 🙌

[orchid hemlock]

Oh yeah I forgot about this 💀

[dusty hedge]

Wait, Riposte instead of Precognition?

[orchid hemlock]

Where is the carapace?

[terse idol]

Iirc either are okay?

[dusty hedge]

With all the Crit chance those talents are giving anyways, the +60% finesse damage feels a lot more valuable

[orchid hemlock]

Precog is generally worse for Vet than uncanny, because vet can't force a crit out like Zealot

[terse idol]

The issue is the build already has repri

I'm not a fan of crit chance

[orchid hemlock]

The problem is that precog isn't worth it unless you crit the momment you proc it

[terse idol]

For the builld

[terse idol]

Probably more reason to take flak and cara

[orchid hemlock]

It's nasty on Zealot because when you dodge, u get both duelist and precog ready, you then use stealth or fury and 100% crit a headshot to nuke the target

[orchid hemlock]

More crit chance never hurts, and it lasts 6 seconds unlike precog's 2

However I would in Havoc rather go Agile over riposte

Being able to constantly dodge is extremely important against Emporer's fading light

[dusty hedge]

what's the trick for dodging gunlines in Havoc? Trying to do that hasn't worked for me at all

is it just dodge+slide better?

is there a timing I need to use?

[faint beacon]

You kinda have to use sound queues tbh

[orchid hemlock]

U can't 100% dodge every bullet even if you dodge slide perfectly

[faint beacon]

They fire so fast that the moment they start

[orchid hemlock]

And EFL makes it ever harder

[faint beacon]

It’s an immediate Killzone

Unless you have

Smokes, Shield, or Bubble

You will not survive

It’s boiling down to positioning and awareness

[tame lodge]

Gbitf mentioned

[dusty hedge]

oh okay, I thought Orcka was saying it was possible to dodge them and I wanted your secret knowledge

[orchid hemlock]

Tanner did this really cringe video trying to say that GR is bad : https://youtu.be/D88y3hlRZ2U?si=oj4n80dEWse3m5AU

[orchid hemlock]

What I'm saying is that when u have Agile, you can constantly dodge while meleeing a horde, which prevents you from getting shot at constantly

[dusty hedge]

gotcha

[orchid hemlock]

So you can focus on killing the horde

[faint beacon]

You tend to want to focus on the shooters first

[heavy rover]

Ghost is also useful if you're engaging shooters

[faint beacon]

But that’s literally the Chaffes job

Making it harder to do that

[odd summit]

Mfw i rock triple resists to gunners bombers and flamers on all curios

[dusty hedge]

Tanner's video seems not to account for Emperor's Fading Light, you wouldn't make it two feet in that scenario

you dodgeslide and then get hit, suppressed, and dead in .3 seconds

[orchid hemlock]

His video is a bad "worst case scenario"

[empty root]

My personal preference is to take generic over specific

[orchid hemlock]

Because he puts all of the gunners at the same range

[orchid hemlock]

Gunners are probably the scariest elites in the entire game

And gunners represents both factions and Reapers

[dusty hedge]

it also seems to be pre-patch? The gunners don't have the same pinpoint accuracy they do now after the Havoc patch (not related to Emperor's Fading Light IIRC)

[orchid hemlock]

So out of all of the "resist" stats, it's the most general

[empty root]

All resist stats are specific though

[orchid hemlock]

Hell even if it wasn't general I would slap on box burster resist if they had it

[orchid hemlock]

Did u read what I said?

[empty root]

Yes

It's just a personal preference though

[orchid hemlock]

Gunner resists represents 3 different kinds of enemies

Most other resist don't even reach 2

[orchid hemlock]

Accuracy used to be better and they reverted it yeah

[empty root]

I run toughness, cdr and Stam regen on all curios and don't think about it

[orchid hemlock]

CDR is a waste on Vet imo

[dusty hedge]

so yeah that whole video is just completely out of date then

[orchid hemlock]

If you are using shout off cooldown, you are using it wrong

[empty root]

Sure

[orchid hemlock]

Maybe in Havocs it makes sense because u want to sync with your teamates 100% golden toughness

[terse idol]

No gunner res?

On havoc id probably argue you want gunner res even more

[empty root]

But what if you need it to survive and case 1 it's off cooldown and case 2 it's not because of cdr

[terse idol]

Considering how quickly gunners will dumpster you

[terse idol]

Its rare

[tall torrent]

close but mine is better

[terse idol]

Its sooooooo rare

[empty root]

I don't rely on face tanking gunners

[terse idol]

What if I said

[orchid hemlock]

But I find it ironic that you complain about "specifics" in GR, but then justify the 3.6 second window of CDR

[terse idol]

Cdr is a dead talent when you didn't use it

It doesn't gain more value if you keep your voc

[tall torrent]

CDR does help in havoc

[terse idol]

It just kinda is a reduction in like seconds

My knowledge is poopy

Is it that close? Jesus

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah it does, but would I sacrifice GR for it?

[terse idol]

I thought tactical awareness just carries most of cdr

[tall torrent]

I don't run gunner resist

[orchid hemlock]

Wtf

[terse idol]

What the!

[orchid hemlock]

What monster are u?

[tall torrent]

because

[empty root]

Whatever, it's just personal preference and I don't care. 4% cdr or not or gunner resist isn't going to save you from poor play in havoc

[orchid hemlock]

[tall torrent]

if reaper hits u

u die anyway

[orchid hemlock]

Trutrutru

But maybe half a second

[tall torrent]

extra toughness at least allows u to tank a stalker burst

[orchid hemlock]

Is all I need

[dusty hedge]

yeah I think GR gives you maybe like a fraction of a second of extra survival on high Havoc

[empty root]

So I say it I am wrong but steam guide wip says it now it's right

[tall torrent]

CDR has value when everyone is squishy

normally psyker is the glass cannon but in havoc everyone is glass

[broken spade]

i just run cdr toughness gunner res

[tall torrent]

havoc's spawn intensity + tac awareness + 3x CDR curio perk
is basically permanent red node uptime

[orchid hemlock]

I never said CDR is bad in Havocs, I said that GR is better

[tall torrent]

I should run gunner resist tbh

but

3x sprint efficiency is too good

I'm used to it

[orchid hemlock]

In fact CDR, has a lot more value specifically for shout because shout gives you flat toughness that isn't effected by the Havoc modifyers

[broken spade]

I also take cdr mainly because it isn't entirely selfish

[orchid hemlock]

It's just that in all other game modes I just don't see the 3.6 second window being that valuable

[wanton dawn]

Nothing like a 3.6s cdr reduction on shout

[broken spade]

me tanking a bit more isn't helpful to the team vs actually buffing them or doing more damage or whatever the ability does

[orchid hemlock]

But then again I just play Ogryn on havocs

Ironically I did a true survivor run on Vet tho

[empty root]

CDR on all curios all the time don't even care

[orchid hemlock]

Ogryn is soo slept on in Havocs

I don't know why

[wanton dawn]

I know why

[broken spade]

only because everything else is genuinely broken

[orchid hemlock]

Why?

[wanton dawn]

Cuz its weaker on average 🤷

[orchid hemlock]

I do think Ogryn is the second best class in Havocs atm

Change my mind

[wanton dawn]

Why ? It's vet chat

Change our mind on it

[broken spade]

Psykers have bubble and infinite cleave infinite ammo staves
Zealot has chorus, also corruption heal for certain modifiers
Vets have nades and shout

[tall torrent]

the avg ogryn player is not remotely good enough to play ogryn well in havoc

[broken spade]

these are all incredibly broken

[dusty hedge]

[orchid hemlock]

Ogryn has infinite cleave, CC, taunt that disables shooters, thousands of debuffs to soften up the front line, objective control, gives space to the rest of the team, hardest to kill, amazing against crushers and ragers

[empty root]

Vet brings shout, zealot brings chorus, psyker brings bubble, What does ogryn bring? (Not rhetorical I am genuinely asking)

[austere mica]

I feel the reason nobody likes ogryn in havoc besides the general stigma is that their strengths are more subtle than a big flashy ability

[tall torrent]

bull rush, taunt, shield, karsolas
ogryn is more for utility

[broken spade]

I don't actually think ogryn is harder to kill than a chorusing zealot

[austere mica]

Chorus has a long ass cooldown even with IoD

[broken spade]

also zealot is tanky

[serene bough]

Well considering havoc is best beat by gold toughness and DoTs ogryn is definitely the weakest

[broken spade]

until death is also a thing

[orchid hemlock]

This is overestimating their value

Psyker's biggest strength isn't the bubble, it's their infinite cleave

Vets strength isn't the shout it's their ability to take out specialists

Zealot really only has value in their flamer/bolt gun and corruption heal

[empty root]

Ogryn CC is slept on

[wanton dawn]

Am pretty sure i could write the same thing about vet with a few tweaks

[serene bough]

Ogryn has CC but Vet + zealot CC comes with gold toughness

[orchid hemlock]

Lmao no wtf

[serene bough]

Plus shredders which is CC DoT damage

[austere mica]

Zealot does linesman front holding/elites hunting well

[wanton dawn]

Lmao yes ftw

[broken spade]

I wouldn't say that's vet's strength mainly because that's not really specific to them.
If anything, shredder nade spam destroying shit is more significant

[dusty hedge]

Which recon las mark is best for Havoc?

[orchid hemlock]

No that's actually cap, vet's only source of heavy cleave is nades

And what happens when ur out?

[tall torrent]

VIc

[empty root]

Infinite CC can be accomplished by trauma staff psyker, crusher zealot or ogryn

[dusty hedge]

thanks

[wanton dawn]

I play sunder ps, like everyone else

[tall torrent]

power sword with sunder

[orchid hemlock]

VIc, but against puss harden XII

[orchid hemlock]

Can PS CC crushers?

[wanton dawn]

Can ogryn cleave through bulwark ?

[empty root]

With power maul

[orchid hemlock]

Actually yeah, with the first heavy of the shield

And PM

[hard lichen]

Ogryn
Good player

Pick one

[wanton dawn]

As for cc, we can use plasma hs

For crusher

[broken spade]

I think vet's value is carried a lot by the nades

[empty root]

That's not good enough for a pack of crushers

[faint beacon]

@orchid hemlock

[orchid hemlock]

U can also push them onto the floor with NP

[faint beacon]

Vets biggest value is demo team

[tall torrent]

no, but any time there is a crusher ur gonna try to stagger it with nade/ult

so outside of ogryns, it does the exact same job as karsolas on a class that feeds ammo, gives toughness and has way better guns

[faint beacon]

In havoc

[wanton dawn]

Well, if you ask me i just kill em with ps.

Cuz you know, i always relink my 60 crushers video

[broken spade]

demo team goes hard

[latent parcel]

All maff knows is ps

[wanton dawn]

Shhh

[empty root]

I think that drives ogryns value down a lot is the fact that there are a lot of clueless ogryn players out there

There are some gems

[faint beacon]

Ogryn is incredibly new player friendly

Like veteran

Why do you think Zealots and Psykers hate them

[wanton dawn]

At the end of the day, ogryn is a rarity in high havoc. Like psyker in hm twins

Does not mean you cant use it

[broken spade]

idk i'm pretty sure zealots and psykers hate everything

[broken spade]

i say this as a psyker and zealot main

[faint beacon]

Mainly zealots

Psykers are just-

Idk

[hard lichen]

Can confirm as psyker main

[faint beacon]

They’re something

[hard lichen]

all we feel is hate

[tall torrent]

zealot is easier to pick up than veteran

stats are gifted

[broken spade]

literal death immunity

[orchid hemlock]

Tbf, a bad Psyker feels 1000 times worse than a bad Ogryn

[faint beacon]

If you know the basics of dodging yes

If not you get pushed to play Veteran

[tall torrent]

if u want to play the game the way it should be played yes

if not u go play psyker

[dusty hedge]

stamina regen or sprint efficiency for curio perks?

[empty root]

I disagree. I think ogryn, vet, zealot and psyker in order of easiest to hardest to get into

[hard lichen]

True tbh, I would know, I'm dogshit lmao

[hollow ibex]

Sprint efficiency

[tame lodge]

Unstoppable Force

[tall torrent]

on veteran, sprint efficiency
unless u take stamina regen delay reduction nodes

[tame lodge]

[dusty hedge]

hmmm, alright

[broken spade]

stamina regen doesn't affect all those talents that give you stamina instantly right?

like duck and dive and that focus target thing

[faint beacon]

I’m still convinced class wise of strength strongest to weakest when pushed to their limits is this

Psyker, Vet ≈ Zeal, Ogryn

[wanton dawn]

I would not know ogryn melee meta on h40 cuz you know, I NEVER SEEN ONE

[orchid hemlock]

@tall torrent what perks would u run on PS in Havoc?

[tall torrent]

ogryn is very easy to get into but much harder to play well into higher difficulties due to 0s dodge linger and weak arsenal overall (especially low maniac ADM)

veteran is not easy to get into (worst stamina management, best talents are lower half, requires aim, and needs to learn fighting almost all enemies in melee)

zealot is very easy to pick up as most of their key talents are in the top half, and zealot scales much better with most melee weapons than veteran. zealot also has i-frames

psyker is hard to pick up but I think it's a different level of hard than veteran (core mechanics). psyker is more general game sense and item management

[grand perch]

i have and all of them were bad or toxic

[latent parcel]

I wish u were on when my buddy Apollo played

[tame lodge]

Oh unstoppable force is on the cleavers
Not meta at all

Wish Cleavers were good

[crimson wyvern]

Almost done all my veteran pennances hurray

last one is the 90% accuracy one

[wanton dawn]

To be fair i've seen a good ogryn player. Could not carry through gloriana 36 though

[tall torrent]

carapace + elite?

since maniac doesn't give u mutant 1hs consistently anyway

[hearty panther]

psword noodling off of moebian 21st heads is a funny mental image

[latent parcel]

best shield ogryn player ive ever seen. all he does is press W and prefers no CC in his h40's rarely dies

[orchid hemlock]

Is sund better than BM in high havocs?

[tall torrent]

yea, it's a utility sword

[broken spade]

The best vets i've seen in high havoc tend to have high melee damage dealt, and it's always a sunder psword

[wanton dawn]

I don't play that much h40 without az either

[orchid hemlock]

PS Ussually inflates the stats because it is excellent into mixed hordes

[latent parcel]

idk who this az is.... sounds like you need a carry!

[wanton dawn]

Though i do feel h40 is easier than 3x with pubs

[wanton dawn]

Yes

[queen fox]

yeah pub havoc is hell

[latent parcel]

pub havoc 40 is fun when u get those hungry lvl 36 havoc players.

[dusty hedge]

I fucking hate pub havocs

controversial opinion I kno

[queen fox]

im too skill issued to get past ~25 in pub havoc, but in a chat here we cleared 36 with no downs

[wanton dawn]

Little success with rando in pubs 3x

Difference between a lvl 3x and a lvl 40 is staggering somehow

[bleak cradle]

20s havoc is hell. 30s can be alright. Below 20 you carry but it can be a tedious carry

[orchid hemlock]

I actually have had better experiences in PUBS than here on the discord 💀

[wanton dawn]

I can "carry" 2x

[latent parcel]

i dont even play 2x anymore

[dusty hedge]

me stuck in 20s havoc desperately applying for 30+ havocs to escape

[broken spade]

hardest challenge was trying to boost my more casual friends to 40

[bleak cradle]

Just do discord here.

[broken spade]

was torture

[bleak cradle]

I have had mostly good luck grouping here.

[wanton dawn]

Azreal. He sometimes write here but doesnt leave msg for long

[orchid hemlock]

I don't know why

Nobody is talking lmao

IG vibes beats coms

[latent parcel]

Yeah ive seen him from time to time in here

[tall torrent]

Why does he delete his messages

[broken spade]

top secret information

[bleak cradle]

Lmao.

Edit: No one will know what my lmao is too…

[broken spade]

idk i wish he kept them. I wanted to find that clip he made of 5 shotting bosses with the revolver

[terse idol]

Sub 20 is literally auric maelstrom to be real

[wanton dawn]

Ehh, not a secret but respect is letting ppl says themselves

[terse idol]

And sub like

16 maelstrom is baby mode

[broken spade]

sub 20 is like auric heresy

[terse idol]

Auric maelstrom plops you into auric 16

[broken spade]

i mean it literally is heresy with a few conditions

[terse idol]

Heresey auric is like

Maelstrom 1-10

[terse idol]

Whaaat

[broken spade]

yeah it's heresy enemies

[terse idol]

I thought it plopped me into maelstrom 16 as auric maelstrom

That's weird

[bleak cradle]

It does

[broken spade]

20 and under is heresy with havoc mods

[terse idol]

Neat

[bleak cradle]

But 21 is start of damn health

[broken spade]

scoreboard mod even logs them as heresy matches

[grand perch]

i had lots of excellent players in h40. dont mind pub at all

[broken spade]

10 and under is malice

[terse idol]

Hopefully they add more systems into havoc later this month

As it gets increasingly harder to find pubs

[broken spade]

i remember for the first hour of havoc, auric mael would drop you into havoc 10

it was so boring

[hard lichen]

Playing Havoc sounds a lot like playing Cata in Rat Game tbh.

[wanton dawn]

I am so bad at building havoc team though

[broken spade]

idk what they were thinking with havoc that low. I could literally solo under 20

starting at 10 is wild

[faint beacon]

Most fun I had was a balanced class havoc team

[terse idol]

Abiiit worse

It seems to be cata+modifiers that make enemies significantly tankier

And if the bestagors with bows could machine gun at you

[tall torrent]

Just pus hardened skin

It’s arbitrary difficulty for the sake of fucking veteran over

[bleak cradle]

Pus hardened screws all classes besides psyker. Should be reworked

[tall torrent]

Not interestingly difficult, just annoying

[broken spade]

i just want pox gas deleted

[wanton dawn]

I just want more ammo

[broken spade]

Is there anyone who considers havoc pox gas to be fun?

[wanton dawn]

I like how ppl hate it

[broken spade]

actually that's a good point

if i get pox gas, i can torture people by inviting them into my match

[bleak cradle]

Lessen the amount it lingers. That is all I want

[broken spade]

pretty funny

[tall torrent]

It’s hard to roll one in the first place and u can just play someone else’s mission

[wanton dawn]

I love vent purge sniper

I can bring my exe bolter

And pewpew everything

[broken spade]

"Do you want to play my pox gas havoc?"
can be translated to
"I want you to suffer with me"
and i think that's beautiful

[tall torrent]

Yea make it reduce DOT too

[wanton dawn]

I mostly enjoy how poxgas punishes snails

[bleak cradle]

We had a dude in party yesterday who had h40 pox gas mod. He was the lucky 5%

[tall torrent]

Make pus hardened reduce range-applied DOT, but not apply to ranged weakspot hits

[bleak cradle]

I like your idea of weakspots not being affected

[wanton dawn]

Btw, i heard pysker has a macro exploit to increase dmg ?

[bleak cradle]

Rewards aim

[bleak cradle]

Lmb electro staff

[broken spade]

I'm not too fond of the weakspot idea because i feel like it does too little then

[tall torrent]

Yes it’s just that some people think I’m talking nonsense so what do I know

[bleak cradle]

It is quell canceling (animation canceling)

[faint beacon]

YOUR MATCHES WILL BE CONSUMED BY ABSOLUTE LOSS

[tall torrent]

No because it’s still a game mode with drastically reduced ammo spawns and higher health enemies
And realistically most people’s ranged weakspot hit rate is not gonna be over 60%

[broken spade]

The weakspot thing just encourages normal gameplay. I want something different.
I want pus hardened to be on some sort of timer so that there's a window to attack them. Make it so you have time your bursts against them

[tall torrent]

If your goal is to punish ranged playstyle, remove ammo spawn entirely like CIVI

[wanton dawn]

I guess the macro squeeze it to the max then

[broken spade]

I want it to not just be "play the game exactly the same as if you didn't have condition"

[tall torrent]

Not “spawn 6 pus hardened reapers at 30m away”

[elder fiber]

Lets punish every playstyle

[terse idol]

Make it so they weak spot changes to a different part on their body

[steep prairie]

isn't that just cranial + moebian 21st

[terse idol]

Cranial but it's their toe

[wanton dawn]

Totacle ?

[bleak cradle]

Yeah. You can animation cancel it quite easily standing still. Lmb , R, lmb, etc. But people macro it to move and shoot

[tall torrent]

Cranial is pure zealot buff
Throwing knife 1HS crusher

[umbral scaffold]

i need some feedback on my grenade build

[broken spade]

Make it so they alternate between strong and weak against ranged every 2 seconds or so

[tall torrent]

Plasma gun does not even 1HS cranial crusher

[broken spade]

so you have to time and plan

[terse idol]

Bolt pistol?

[umbral scaffold]

yea

[narrow frost]

no serrated blade

[terse idol]

Iirc you need fire team is make up some break points

[narrow frost]

not a real bleed build

[tall torrent]

No

[terse idol]

No?

[tall torrent]

Superiority complex

Is what u need

[terse idol]

Oooh

[wanton dawn]

Any frag build then

[tall torrent]

I just hate how it’s arbitrary difficulty rn, it’s not interesting, it’s just annoying

[dusty hedge]

pus hardened wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't completely removed the mechanic of "getting into melee range with shooting enemies makes them swap to melee" thus completely invalidating 2/3 Zealot builds

[tall torrent]

The only modifier I think that actually achieves its goal rn is blight spread

[elder fiber]

Thinking of one of the last havoc games I got in before tendinitis crippled me, getting repeatedly knocked out of chorus trying to cover auspex by infil vet laspistol magdumping hordes

[dusty hedge]

then it'd make sense you want to rush shooters with pus hardened. But as it is all it does is punish playing tactically and shooting enemies from cover/bubble

[wanton dawn]

H40 pus is 50% dr yeah ?

Its bad but you can still shoot em

[tall torrent]

Yea

U can shoot them

Just takes 2x the headshots

Dreg gunner is 3~4 headshots from a plasma gun

Reaper takes 6

Yes, 6

[dusty hedge]

hideous

[wanton dawn]

12 ? I dont feel that much

[tall torrent]

Reaper 6k health

Pus hardened x0.5 ranged damage so effectively 12k

Plasma is ~2k on headshot

Ok nvm 6 shots

Still aids

[dusty hedge]

still a ridiculous amount

[tall torrent]

Even plague marines die in 1~2 headshots by plasma

[wanton dawn]

Do not say that in general chat

Actually, do it

[terse idol]

The lowly plague marine

[tall torrent]

Is that not true or smth

Pretty sure they just drop dead?

[wanton dawn]

Idc if true or not. I just want to read pointless discussion on csm inclusion in dt

[elder fiber]

Those plague marines should try scoring some pus (sy) like tertium reapers

[dusty hedge]

Pus-hardened plague marines

[broken spade]

yeah i stand by my idea of making the pus hardened thing activate on some interval

[tall torrent]

They’re plague marines they should be pus hardened by default

[crimson wyvern]

Alright I give up, how do you do the accuracy pennance

[tall torrent]

Anything is better than rn

[broken spade]

would be interesting for changing up target priority

[tall torrent]

Or yk
Make it so, after a ranged weakspot hit, the ranged DR goes away temporarily

[tame lodge]

Shotgun, revolver, plasma

Pick ammo if you miss a shot or two

[steep prairie]

that would favor auto weapons too much, no?

[wanton dawn]

Just exclude recon

[tall torrent]

The only automatic weapon seeing use in havoc is recon which has weak unyielding ADM anyway

[broken spade]

i'm not a fan of weakspots completely negating it because that just means anyone who weakspots normally will not experience the modifier.
Modifiers should actually change the experience of playing

[tall torrent]

And u already bring a recon for pus hardened

[dusty hedge]

My main complaint is just that pus-hardened, coupled with Emperor's Fading Light and all the gunner upgrades (reapers shooting literally behind themselves if you run behind them lmfao) just removes tactical options from the game entirely. It doesn't make you play better, it makes you play slower, everyone literally bubble-walking their way through missions, making it last 2-3x as long

[tall torrent]

Stagger maybe

While staggered, ranged DR does not apply

[broken spade]

sure that's a neat idea

[wanton dawn]

Auto weapon are not in a great spot rn. There is recon, vrak inf and the rest is way below

[tall torrent]

Stagger being in play would also make falter inf las way better than they currently are

Except reaper

[steep prairie]

i like the stagger idea

my heavy stubber would love it

[tall torrent]

U would also be able to frag stagger from afar and start rushing without necessarily needing a psyker to dome for u to get close

[steep prairie]

kickback disabling the entire gunners line at once also

[wanton dawn]

"Disabling"

[broken spade]

yeah i'm fine with the stagger idea actually
I just want something that can be played around with actually different gameplay

[tall torrent]

And definitely nerf DOT vs pus hardened

[faint beacon]

Gut the fuck out of DOT towards pus

[wanton dawn]

Kickback used to disable by death

[cedar dagger]

Shout out to the vets kickig me from Chasm Logistratum

[tall torrent]

DOT should take same DR as ranged attacks vs pus hardened

[broken spade]

yeah

[steep prairie]

would that mess with inferno staff/frag too much or no?

[bleak cradle]

Bye bye inferno staff

[wanton dawn]

Worth

[steep prairie]

i would rather see inferno staff than smite

[tall torrent]

Would still be fine just for ignoring mass as a mechanic, and not all enemies would be pus hardened

[latent parcel]

Metaman wouldn't approve

[tall torrent]

Highest pus hardened spawn chance are bulwark / reaper / gunner

Bulwark yea I’m ok with

Reaper & gunner are aids

[dusty hedge]

pus hardened feels way more suitable for melee elites anyways. forcing you to actually melee them

[tall torrent]

Exactly

[hearty panther]

hell ill take the gunners

[elder fiber]

I want purga to not fully ignore ass and be designed around that

[hearty panther]

if we just remove the reapers lmao

[elder fiber]

Or maybe just killed idk

[latent parcel]

Blight is problay the worst mod tho. Forcing a zealot to kneecap themselves to actually play the level sucks

[hearty panther]

a fucken gatling gun weilding ogryn with an effective 12,000hp against ranged damage is just ffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFucked

[dusty hedge]

zealots are already forced to kneecap themselves due to Emperor's Fading Light making rushing gunlines suicide

so stealth zealot is right out

[steep prairie]

it gives zealot a permanent slot in blight lobbies though

[wanton dawn]

Pus+blight is like nurgle lottery whenever you kill stuff

[wanton dawn]

Good

[umbral scaffold]

NO PLASMA GUN!

[hearty panther]

i think blight's impact is overstated tbh

[latent parcel]

I hate running beacon. Ask maff

[dusty hedge]

Fury of the Faithful is also basically suicide because as soon as the charge ends you just get deleted by the gunners

[tall torrent]

If pus hardened didn’t work while staggered, a lot more weapons would be better
Like
EK staff
Voidstrike staff
Boltgun & bolt pistol (bleed DOT nerf but they actually stagger)
Infantry lasgun VII with falter
Helbore, even

[latent parcel]

Nah

[dusty hedge]

so only 1/3 Zealot builds are viable now

[wanton dawn]

He hates running beacon. Ask me.

[bleak cradle]

Is it? I think blight can many times in a match completely fuck you

[tall torrent]

What melee

[latent parcel]

Fury of the faithful is goated

[hearty panther]

you learn it, idk what else to say about blight

the first couple of times it was slightly traumatizing because nobody was used to it

so youre facehugging poxwalkers that are gooping all over you

and you arent paying attention to your feet

now i dont even care if we have a BoP zealot, i find i might scoop up at most 50 corr over an entire round from ground goop

[tame lodge]

Where's your Iron Will 😭

[hearty panther]

you fight at maximum melee reach, you back up more, you do your best not to kill the goopyguy before other enemies

[wanton dawn]

I think goop could stick a little less time

[hearty panther]

ye 18s is

kinda too much

[wanton dawn]

Its just annoying

[hearty panther]

should match the firebomb timer imo

[dusty hedge]

Blight feels like the right mix of 'problem' and 'learn to avoid problem' as a modifier

[orchid hemlock]

Wait, did Sunder get changed?

[wanton dawn]

Barely

Got a heavy buff now

You still spam light though

[orchid hemlock]

Is cleave target still int edump in high havocs?

[tall torrent]

Yea

U go from 43.6 to 46.8 cleave

No big difference

[wanton dawn]

But my 2 poxwalker..

[dusty hedge]

has anyone ever actually killed 46.8 poxwalkers in a single swing?

[hearty panther]

i did once

barehanded

hadnt even had my coffee yet

[dusty hedge]

based

[tame lodge]

Only if they like blob together
Clipping into each other

[hearty panther]

and by poxwalkers i of course mean school children and by barehanded i mean in my lifted ford truck

but thats for the lawyers to discuss

[tame lodge]

And you somehow have enough damage distribution or something

[dusty hedge]

I love poxie blobs

wish they happened more often

[wanton dawn]

Bm is better for pox anyway

Sunder is for the big boys

[dusty hedge]

dump stat for the recon las is collateral right? Since stagger is not the point?

[wanton dawn]

Personally id dump the recon but that's mostly me

And also yeah, see pin

[dusty hedge]

oh cool a bigass guide

[tall torrent]

Yes, even at max collateral it still can’t stagger a single specialist or elite out of their attack animation

So it’s literally worthless

[umbral scaffold]

For the long bomb penance is it any grenade or has to be frag grenade

[tall torrent]

Has to be frag

[umbral scaffold]

How do I put that on

[tall torrent]

Select the grenade on the left

[tall torrent]

Shredder frag

[umbral scaffold]

Do I have to reset my whole tree

I’m lebel 16

[tall torrent]

U can make another loadout

[umbral scaffold]

Do I kill 5 or hit 5

[tall torrent]

Hit

[vernal trench]

Frags are so op

[umbral scaffold]

is iron will good?

[tall torrent]

Very

[umbral scaffold]

How r u supposed to not get hit once

Malice +

[umbral scaffold]

knife/ds just for uncanny

R they off coke

knife in auric ds in havoc

[tall torrent]

Block

[crude fiber]

It's not no damage, it's no health damage. As long as you have full health from start to finish

[steep prairie]

just go full ranged Vet in malice

probably isn't that hard

[hollow ibex]

I got mine randomly on havoc

[bleak cradle]

Beginning of DT, any hit from fodder did health damage, right?

[crude fiber]

Don't think so? Think 100% toughness was always a no damage hit

[bleak cradle]

I can’t remember. I did a no hit run how I got it. But I can’t remember if that was because toughness didn’t give you a free hit or not

[crude fiber]

Maybe poxwalkers gave corruption on first hit but that doesn't sound right

[tall torrent]

Don’t take grenade tinkerer if you’re already going down survivalist

Catch a breath is better than get back in the fight 95%+ the time

Twinned blast is funny but overall not that great

Rending strikes is unnecessary for your weapons (knife/DS + bolt pistol)

Get either middle or right keystone
If middle keystone, take redirect fire or target down
If right keystone, take always prepared (helps a lot for bolt pistol)

I don’t think duelling sword is worth running weapon specialist with on veteran for havoc, other melee scale better if going down bottom right path

[wanton dawn]

Yes. Everybody hated that

[orchid hemlock]

btw @tall torrent why do u prefer going right over center on the tree now? 🤔

[tall torrent]

Focus target doesn’t matter for plasma in havoc

It can push 1 breakpoint on flamers with giga investment but it’s not worth it

[orchid hemlock]

no I mean this:

[tall torrent]

Idk if u noticed but I don’t even take much ammo in the havocs we played

[tall torrent]

O4B scales better when basic shooters can kill u

And one motion allows u to throw frags faster in a pinch

[orchid hemlock]

what about normal games?

[tall torrent]

5% move speed is also better than 1 stamina most of the time

[tall torrent]

Not hard enough for those choices to matter

[wanton dawn]

After testing o4b extensively, i concluded that i prefer middle

[orchid hemlock]

ngl the 25% sawp speed feels good with heavy guns and the PS

[tall torrent]

So might as well take 5% move speed and get through the level faster

[tall torrent]

Idk abt that

It’s very placebo most of the time

[broken spade]

it feels nice for nades

[tall torrent]

It’s like -0.13s for plasma

But it’s very noticeable for grenades

[orchid hemlock]

what about PS?

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t matter much since melee weapons draw very quickly

[broken spade]

i think switching to melee is pretty quick anyways

[tall torrent]

The only slow draw melee are the 4 new greatswords I think

Those are noticeably slower than others

[orchid hemlock]

also for normal games, for PS is BM or Sund better?

[tall torrent]

Preference

Sunder scales better into density

BM kills horde better

[orchid hemlock]

is COD not good anymore?

[tall torrent]

It is good

[orchid hemlock]

hmm idk if I should get one or the other

😔

[tall torrent]

I’m kinda used to o4b at this point

I think if you’re gonna play veteran in havoc it’s better to get used to o4b

CK still scales really well tho

[broken spade]

I do agree with o4b gaining value in havoc from the shooters

the elites kinda come in waves
and sometimes you get groups of shooters with no elites that just shred you, making you wish you had toughness gain that didn't rely on elites

[hollow ibex]

Happens even out of havoc

Always makes me paranoid

[broken spade]

well, i don't feel as threatened by non-elite groups outside of havoc

[hollow ibex]

Even though it’s usually not an issue

[tall torrent]

Also O4B gives u toughness from grenade bleed kills

Which is another huge part

It’s up more often when it matters

[hollow ibex]

It’s usually when shit has repeatedly hit the fan and is looking really fucking bad and you need toughness NOW

And there’s not a single spec or elite you can kill

[wanton dawn]

12 shotgunner out of the door 5 meters away upon ye

[tall torrent]

For non-havoc, choice doesn’t really matter

It’s not challenging enough anyway

Might as well take O4B path’s move speed bonus and get through lvl faster

[broken spade]

non havoc i find confirmed kill comfier

[tall torrent]

[broken spade]

i just continuously rush elite groups

[hollow ibex]

The decision to play a meme build is always the right choice so choices do matter

[broken spade]

rush down every pack of elites and be functionally immortal in auric

[tall torrent]

O4B is kind of not as good if u don’t run frags

[wanton dawn]

Double trapper tag team upon ye

Nobody expect the 3rd one

[broken spade]

tfw 2 trappers hiding behind a crusher

[wanton dawn]

We cant complain anymore now that shot pierce teammates

[elder fiber]

new havoc modifier that brings back bodyblocking shots

[final charm]

havoc modifier that turns on friendly fire

[empty root]

holding a grimoire should open you up to friendly fire

[tall torrent]

I’m almost done with another weapon in guide

The DB shotgun

[empty root]

in a high intensity auric with a havoc level 15 chainaxe vet with exec stance, krak grenades and revolver

fucking 200 iq loadout

[tall torrent]

41 weapons left

[grand perch]

im be happy to report i found a competent ogryn on havoc 40

[empty root]

poor psyker getting outdamaged by vet and oggy

or zealot doing 2/3 damage cause of chorus

[grand perch]

yeah he was resigned to just standing around most of the time

[empty root]

the way scoreboard distributes score is messed up though

he gets 193 defensive score for "attacks blocked" yet the chorus zealot gets nothing

also hellbore lasgun

[broken spade]

yeah the scores are basically useless

i have them hidden

[empty root]

i just show offensive score

cant lie with raw damage numbers and kills

[terse idol]

Just gotta remove the ditridus score options

😌

[empty root]

trying to do aurics and they are flooded with fresh 30s

i thought i had longer until the console kiddies got off school

[terse idol]

Just gotta carry em frankly

[faint beacon]

Can we have a havoc modifier that actively fucks over certain classes

[primal zealot]

We already do

[faint beacon]

Passive peril generation specifically to fuck over psyker

Pus hardened is there for veteran

[regal bramble]

Gotta appreciate that though about fresh 30’s they’re eager to progress

So in that I respect

[tall torrent]

blight already hurts zealot
pus hardened just needs to be more interesting

[regal bramble]

Anyone else agree?

[tall torrent]

I think nerfing DOT vs hardened, and making hardened not apply if the enemy is staggered, would be pretty good

[faint beacon]

Look if we got modifiers that hurt X classes I say fuck it

I’m all in

Make one for every class

[tall torrent]

there's already 1 for every class except psyker

[regal bramble]

Ngl they need to get rid of the blackout modifier it’s so aids bruh

[faint beacon]

Passive peril generation that they have to quell or they explode

Teehee

[hollow ibex]

Add soulblaze immunity

[grand perch]

calm down satan

[faint beacon]

I’m cooking and you know it

Do not reject my perfect idea

We need one for Ogryn also

[grand perch]

i am the reject

[elder fiber]

using warp powers attracts the attention of chaos

psyker gets turned into a warp gate for overusing purga, dozens of puss reapers pour out

[faint beacon]

Voices of the Warp: constant peril generation overtime

[grand perch]

80% resistance to heavy attacks

[faint beacon]

Could be like grim ticks

[faint beacon]

This actively hurts the other classes as well so I’m trying to think of something else

[tall torrent]

pus hardened should nerf DOT

but have some way to turn off

like stagger

[hollow ibex]

Just soulblaze specifically

[tall torrent]

nah, all DOT

burn & bleed included

[empty root]

make all classes dodge the same as ogryns

[thorn lark]

YES

make knee sliding a thing

[crimson wyvern]

veteran completed time to have fun with the game again 👍

[empty root]

I can't get over ogryn, it feels like they have weights tied around their ankles

[burnt stump]

Strange considering the bigger they are the faster they run

Also is it me or do Veterans also have the best fits because the best I've seen come from them

[slow spade]

ogryn moves at the same speed as everyone else

their camera is different

[slow spade]

its hard to fuck up "random soldier guy"

[burnt stump]

You'd be surprised how many times it has been

[empty root]

is onslaught on a recon build a meme right?

[slow spade]

hard but not impossible as AAA games have proven again and again and again

[slow spade]

yes but its not a "bad" idea

[burnt stump]

What is considered the best Veteran Weapon

[empty root]

sapper shovel mk 1

[burnt stump]

I forgot to clarify

Veteran Gun Weapon

[burnt stump]

Also true because I'm using it for my "Guardsman" War set or whatever it was called

[empty root]

kantreal combat shotgun

[burnt stump]

Not Recon Lasgun or Revolver?

[empty root]

im bullshitting but for real the plasma gun

[austere mica]

There isn’t a best

There’s things that are best at X

[burnt stump]

Shotgun is great don't get me wrong but one is a gun with zero recoil and the other pierces Carapace armor like water through tissue paper

[austere mica]

But not best at everything

[burnt stump]

I see

What would the Recon Lasgun be good at

[empty root]

shotgun is actual garbage

[austere mica]

Generalist

[empty root]

recon lasgun is the easiest ranged weapon to employ so it gets lots of hype

[tall torrent]

zealot has way better cosmetic options

[odd sparrow]

recon is anti-shooter and decent all rounder loads of ammo and pretty accurate at longer range

[tall torrent]

most of veteran's cosmetics have clipping problems or glitches

[burnt stump]

I refuse to believe that when their main cosmetic is a rag on their head

[empty root]

is great dps with decent ammo econ and has a strong dot effect

[tall torrent]

or just look terrible

[tall torrent]

revolver

outside of havoc anyway

[tall torrent]

nah, their penance armor look way better

[empty root]

all of the havoc sets are pretty homogenous

zealot looks kinda goofy actually

[burnt stump]

I should probably do Havoc one of these days

I tried a maelstrom mission but for some reason my teammates were like 20~25 levels
It was malice difficulty with the double monstrosities

[empty root]

dont think about havoc until aurics become easy for you

[burnt stump]

And I shouldn't think about Aurics until Maelstrom becomes easy to me?

Or Heresy

[tall torrent]

well, depends on how fast ur learning the game

some very generalist tips:

• learn to block in sedition and uprising
• learn to dodge in malice (dodge melee attacks, avoid getting disabled by trapper / push the poxburster / push or dodge pox hound)
• learn how to tag enemies in heresy (outline for easy headshots, make teammates aware of specialists)
• learn situational awareness in damnation (teammate is disabled, help them)
• in auric you learn how to fight every enemy in the game by yourself as well as the priority list (because there's always a special and elite, know which one to kill first)
• in havoc you need to perfect everything you’ve learnt and treat every encounter against every enemy with respect because things can snowball out of control extremely fast

[odd sparrow]

ehhh depeends on the maelstrom. Maelstrom basically is like +1 to difficulty

like most diff 3 maelstrom is roughly equivalent to a diff 4 mission with some difficulty spikes

[burnt stump]

I'm pretty much on step 5

Almost

[tall torrent]

without getting chipped down

[odd sparrow]

havocs goes quite crazy. Having to deal with double boss fights with regular enemies still coming is pretty demanding

[burnt stump]

Chipped down meaning getting gunned down by maulers or...?

I mean Reapers

And Gunners

[tall torrent]

fight everything
without taking health damage

[umbral parrot]

^

[tall torrent]

or well, minimize any kind of dmg u take

[burnt stump]

Doesn't sound too hard considering everyone but the traitor Ogryns die easily

[tall torrent]

if u can't avoid dmg, don't get hit too hard

[burnt stump]

Pox bursters are really my only issue because I push them and dodge backwards but the explosion reaches to the far ends of the universe and still hits me

[umbral parrot]

Anyone can. I can make it pretty far without getting hurt despite using Psword. Mobility is key on not getting hit and i manage with the Psword's horrible dodges!

[burnt stump]

Other than that I don't really struggle with any of the elites or specialists

[umbral parrot]

Double push! I have the Stamina to spare.

[tall torrent]

what difficulty have u been playing

[umbral parrot]

Sometimes you just know it's not enough so pushing again is a good idea.

[burnt stump]

Malice

I tried Heresy

I mean uh

The fourth one

[tall torrent]

was it hard

[odd sparrow]

thats heresy yeah

[burnt stump]

On a scale of 1/10?

Id give it a 5

[tall torrent]

go damnation then

[burnt stump]

I only did it once

[umbral parrot]

How did that go?

[tall torrent]

damnation is not much harder than heresy

[burnt stump]

I'll run through it a few more times

I also didn't know that Heresy reduces one wound!

[odd sparrow]

generally moving up a difficulty when you feel a little confident is fine.

Do be warned that your weapons will need to be up for the task as higher difficulties increase enemyy hp by a lot

[burnt stump]

So when I went in with two I was wondering "why do I only have two"

It wasn't like excruciatingly hard though because Voice of Command is goated

Oh sweet I got image perms now

[odd sparrow]

VoC is poggies

[umbral parrot]

Your talents do heavy lifting when it comes to damage in higher difficulties.

Weapons, not so much. I can prob do a grey weapon and still be fine.

Actually, I should Grey Psword and see how that goes. x3

** I TAKE IT BACK** Blessings are important. Know with what you're working with.

[tall torrent]

wounds don't matter much

[burnt stump]

I have no idea if my blessings are super good

They work really well

But they're probably absolutely horrendously optimized

[tall torrent]

what weapons are u using

[slow spade]

I mean you'll know when a blessing is useful

like a Psword without Power Cycler is VERY noticable lol

[burnt stump]

That depends on whatever warset I'm using at the time but before I made anymore I was using Revolver/Shock prod

Best melee weapon in Veteran by the way

Stuns everything that isn't a boss

[odd sparrow]

yeah depends on weapon a grey revolver would propably be fine. But you absolutely need power cycleer or surgical for helbore

[burnt stump]

I tried Helbore and it was really awkward to use if that makes sense

[odd sparrow]

fair i dont use helbore for the same reason

[hollow ibex]

I wished this didn’t impact martyrdom

Martyrdom could use the help

[tall torrent]

generic veteran build

for revolver, take always prepared for right side keystone

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664591642967408640/1320852161265143878/axe.mp4?ex=67881bef&is=6786ca6f&hm=195cfe35f627ece3eed04eb0e49ec0037e7ab1fcf2f014b6a633e46cc80fbf2d&

[burnt vortex]

Onslaught for recon, bad or not?

[tall torrent]

niche, not worth most of the time

[faint beacon]

If it’s the XII it’s actually useful

Seeing you get max onslaught out of it

[burnt vortex]

Is that the mega fast one?

[faint beacon]

Outside of that not really worth it

[faint beacon]

Yeah the blue variant

[odd sparrow]

its ok on all recons

[faint beacon]

Spits lasers like fucking crazy

Dollar store Helgun as I call it

The only other gun that can make it work is the VIAG

But again niche

[burnt vortex]

I guess it'd be better to go for the melee nodes on the bottom right then instead of onslaught

I'm going combat axe

[tall torrent]

The thought process goes like this

Do you have a strong anti-armor melee weapon?
Yes -> no onslaught
No -> Do you want to use a strong anti-armor melee weapon but it costs talent points to be optimal?
Yes -> spend those points on melee, don’t run onslaught
No -> Do you really want to magdump crushers with your gun?
Yes, with Vraks V / Recon XII -> run onslaught
Yes, but no specific ranged weapon in mind -> Boltgun + executioner’s stance
No -> what are you doing?

[faint beacon]

The stupidest shit you could run would be like Onslaught Infernus XII

Stacking stupid amounts of debuffs on crushers etc

[vernal trench]

I love hellbore

[burnt stump]

Cool

It ain't for me tho

Also is this good (Malice Difficulty)

Getting surrounded and jumped and my toughness barely going down?

[gilded rock]

What perks did double barrel want again?

Toss-up between Unarm., Flak, Maniac?

[final charm]

Good enough for malice

[final charm]

You should try a power sword, would speed up your horde clear.

[burnt stump]

Yeah but the thing is

It's not really for the hordes

I said before the Stun Rod stuns literally everything

If a Rager so much as breathes on me I'm spamming the special

[final charm]

Doesn’t it have to maintain contact to stun? feel like a rager horde would just cut you down while trying to even stun one.

[burnt stump]

Krak Grenade

And I can do it to multiple of them

Maybe

I haven't tried but they stay stunned long enough for me to change targets when I do it

It doesn't last that long

[hollow ibex]

Yes. Ragers fuck shock maul

You can get away with it on lower difficulties

[burnt stump]

Even then the Ragers most likely aren't getting close enough in the first place

Considering I have

A Gun

😎

[final charm]

Wish it was like a taser that left them on the ground or something (DAMN YOU RESKINNED SMITE)

[hollow ibex]

I like to let them get close and fight them like a man

[burnt stump]

Why

I HATE the stupid little thing where if you get meleed your camera is tossed

[hollow ibex]

It’s not reskinned smite because smite is actually good

[burnt stump]

It's why I hate Ragers

[hollow ibex]

Because melee combat is glorious

[burnt stump]

It is but against Ragers?

The most annoying enemy in the game?

[hollow ibex]

And easier to tbag their corpse afterwards

[hollow ibex]

To assert my dominance over them

[burnt stump]

Just shoot em man

[hollow ibex]

Waste precious munitions? I think not.

[burnt stump]

The fact that they're stupid enough to literally do the "bringing a knife to a gun fight" thing is dominance enough

You don't see a Zealot going on an op with just a Chainsword do you

[hollow ibex]

When I’m playing zealot, I basically don’t use my gun

I’m 95 percent melee on zealot

[burnt stump]

Yeah but like that's their thing that's understandable

[tall torrent]

remember to press dodge
in damnation that's half ur health gone

[burnt stump]

I do remember

Just uh being swarmed behind me makes dodging a little hard

[tall torrent]

also, learn weapon combos

[tall torrent]

push

push is 360 degrees around u

[hollow ibex]

Or play Rashad

[tall torrent]

better yet don't get surrounded by things u can't kill quickly

[tough tiger]

Bro needs to position himself outside the mob, not inside it lol

How can u dodge when you are body blocked 360 degrees

[tall torrent]

rashad still needs to PA quite often

[burnt stump]

Yeah I should probably start using push more

[tough tiger]

Dont stop moving in circles and dont stop dodging

[hollow ibex]

Well tbf that’s not really a weapon combo

[burnt stump]

Bru why is there a level 19 zealot running heresy

[tall torrent]

rashad can be much more complicated than it looks if u want to full optimize

[burnt stump]

Whatever man I'll roll wit it

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1306382291781681252/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.11.13_-_12.57.55.43.mp4?ex=673676d1&is=67352551&hm=68c82723d28b4d4353ad9c06cad9774e6613cbc72b43d320e30c5e58fa8ffc68&

[tough tiger]

@tall torrent does rashad push attack have cleave?

[tall torrent]

8

with max headtaker stacks, 10

[tough tiger]

[tall torrent]

u just need 1 to have enough to hit 3 dreg ragers

which is why I do PA twice at start

[tough tiger]

Least broken melee behind the dsword

[tall torrent]

first PA only hits 2

[tall torrent]

axe is somewhat (?) balanced on veteran by 2 things

1. needs big talent investment

2. veteran has the worst stamina management in the game

u can't run a bunch of guns with it, and it's very easy to blow urself up in melee vs ragers if u miss attack timings

@burnt stump this should help u somewhat

[burnt stump]

So am I supposed to bait out the close variant and then deal with it?