veteran-class

[warm bolt]

New havoc modifier - astigmatism

[unreal nova]

More blindness effects go.

[grand perch]

The emperor protects (but not your eyesight)

[pastel yew]

said it before but it should just be moved to the connecting node above the grenades

the one everyone has to take

VoC doesnt get any stronger

but everything else becomes a little less awful to path to

as yeah if you runn anthing outside of fire team or voc you're just taxxed a point

[pseudo fiber]

Not a bad call tbf

[calm shard]

what should

[pastel yew]

that alone would help a significant amount

at least then the trees are a little more balanced

outside of the left which has like 0 good nodes until you get to the bottom

[sage adder]

Question

Are Krak nades just weird sometimes

Was doing a round and was in the animation of tossing it but the target moved yet somehow it counted as stuck anyway and even saw the trail and it looked like it decided to fucking do a 180 home onto the Bulwark

And then theres times it just acts normally

[unreal nova]

Were you lagging? Cos sometimes lag makes them really funny to watch.

[sage adder]

If I was it certainly wasnt on a noticeable level

But the trail looked hella weird like it decided it wanted to be a homing missile

Quite often I sometimes just slightly miss the throw but it counts as stuck anyway

Not complaining just find it funny

[stoic thorn]

Me when I'm tryna get the sniper but my inbred teammates keep letting the mutants/bursters interrupt my countersniping

[unreal nova]

They are somewhat magnetic though, lag just makes it funnier if the server thinks it's a 'hit'.

[light ridge]

Your teammates might have their own problems to deal with

[sage adder]

In the aforementioned scenario I BLATANTLY missed the bulwark hard because a teammate shot them alerting them so in my POV I missed entirely but the game decided 'no'

[unreal nova]

Well, server decided it hit, so it hit. Heh.

[sage adder]

And then when it comes to Monstrosities I can't stick them worth a damn

Me when my aim is suddenly garbage to where I can't hit a giant target

[unreal nova]

XD Oh, I know the feel.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, THAT KRAK MISSED? IT'S IN THE BON FFS.

[normal sparrow]

They magnetize to carapace

[analog mural]

kraks are attracted to armour, not bosses unforetunately

so you need a direct hit on bosses

[sage adder]

They do now huh? Interesting.

[normal sparrow]

Always have been

[sage adder]

What does Bulwarks count as again I barely know shit about enemy armor

[normal sparrow]

Unyielding with cara shoulder

[analog mural]

bulwarks are mostly unyielding with cara shoulder

[sage adder]

Ah

No wonder it decided to do a U turn in the air

[analog mural]

parts of their legs are also cara I think

[stoic thorn]

Me watching as my teammate rushes into flamer fire to try to rescue another downed teammate (he got downed too)

Me watching as I get downed too because the teammate that rushed into fire to rescue the other was the only guy protecting my tunnel visioned ass sniping all the delicious specials and elites down the lane

It was mauler mania

Too bad for me because I brought the infantry lasgun and frags

[charred pulsar]

Best bleesing for tactical axe?

[calm shard]

brutal momentum/headtaker obv

decimator is good too I think, but it makes push attacks delete your damage

[pseudo fiber]

Krak grenades magnatize towards Carapace.

[grand perch]

but i go for bromentum + agile

[pseudo fiber]

Go into the meat grinder and throw one above a maulers head

[charred pulsar]

Aig ill follow ur guide No1 tac axe enjoyr

[grand perch]

dont be afraid to switch agile to headtaker and see if you like the difference

i just want to dodge all day

[charred pulsar]

Rn Im feeling best with mk 7, but mk 4 got the best horde clear and tahts what im looking for

Soo idk what to choose

Also the thing just got a pretty skin

[pastel yew]

they're slightly magnetic

they stick to non magnetic enemies on direct hit though

but bulwarks n crushers they will home to

ah seems someone already mentioned

mb

[pastel yew]

bad horde clear can be played around as you get used to a moveset tho

[grand perch]

mk7 is my jam too, horde clear is never going to be your strong point anyway

[pastel yew]

I had similar issue with the combat blades... mk3 feels so much nicer but the mk6 horde clear is a lot better

a lot better = still not good anyway

*cackle

[grand perch]

also dont forget your special attack staggers mutants if you manage to hit the head. can be useful

[charred pulsar]

Uh thats interesting

SO its ok like this orrr

[grand perch]

thats another small issue with mk IV, slightly slower special attack. harder to time against charging muties

youll get more mileage out of +25% maniac dmg instead of flak, taxe has good flak ADM anyway

[charred pulsar]

Aig aig

[pastel yew]

I didnt know that, thats cool

[charred pulsar]

Thanks a lot and btw what means PA in the pic u share? is it like pause?

[pastel yew]

not sure why you'd need to stagger a mutant most of the time but its neat

[grand perch]

gets them to hold still for follow up attacks, no need for a wall behind you

[charred pulsar]

To flex on people when clutching? xd

[grand perch]

thats parry attack, so the attack you get when you press attack while blocking

[charred pulsar]

Ahhh allright allright

[pastel yew]

no better justification really

[analog mural]

PA is push attack, I guess you could call it parry attack aswell

[pastel yew]

both fit n describe it well

[charred pulsar]

Is it mandatory to use this thing with a build taht use onslaught?

[grand perch]

onslaught is very low value on any melee, even the fastest

[charred pulsar]

Oh nice so it works on the one I got then

[grand perch]

however taxe is in a very weird niche and the ONLY weapon where exploit weakness is kinda useful

[grand perch]

how do you mean? onslaught is not good for taxe

[charred pulsar]

My build dont use onslaught so no need to change anything

[grand perch]

ah fair

[pastel yew]

what does explot weakness even do

rare ass blessing

I did actually manage to get a god stat tac axe from brunt yesterdayt

maybe I should craft one up

I dont quite get the appeal of the weapon tho ngl

it seems like a mix of devils claw and combat axe with none of the cool things from either

[charred pulsar]

Im getting used to the mutti thing, can I save an ally with this? it would save me a voc use

Or is just a too specific scenario?

[grand perch]

i dont think ive ever managed to get someone out of a grab with it, but i think in theory it should work? no idea if muties got extra stagger resistance during the animation

[charred pulsar]

Ohh okay okay

[analog mural]

you should be able to save someone from a mutie with it

[grand perch]

last i tested my build it adds about 200-300 dps against crushers depending on crit luck. and since cara is what you struggle most with, i consider it worthwhile on a tac axe based build

[pastel yew]

damn its carapace clear is that rough?

[grand perch]

oh yeah

[pastel yew]

I guess if you got nothin else like you got no choice

[grand perch]

since taxe gets extra base critchance it triggers the brittleness quicker (where the fast attack speeds helps too). and as opposed to knife, which doesnt need the talent, because its already got great cara damage

[pastel yew]

does the crit apply both stacks at once?

I know dot effects work like that but

didnt realise it applied to all on hit stack effects

actually kinda dope if so

[grand perch]

i think you need to crit twice

[pastel yew]

ohh I misread

you actually need to crit to even apply the stack

god thats so rough

[grand perch]

yeah taxe is an uphill battle, i enjoy it for the mobility and challenge

[pastel yew]

damn new mr e video

sorta liked the dude before because even if he had some wild/bad takes at least he was chill

but guys seemingly going for a lot more of an aggro angle this year

whole video glazing survivalist backing up his points with bad math

[manic cloak]

Why would you pick this over +25 toughness?

[light ridge]

Mr E & Tanner? For all his flaws Tanner provides some value if you can get past his ranting and toxicity
E is entertainment some value but lacking in accuracy

Survivalist is nice, not great but probably better than 5% damage
Love it for Bolt Pistol, not sure with Recon, doesn't do anything for Shotgun

[dim citrus]

I feel like the stealth ult should make you see better in the dark, not make you blind

[pastel yew]

kinda trippy but it makes you see better in vent purge for some reason...

[dim citrus]

I tried using it in Lights Out

Its horrible

[grand perch]

Who said anything about not picking that too

[pastel yew]

but not in the dark

[pastel yew]

I mean 5% damage does nothing 99% of the time

you just path for efficiency

its like.. literally only the rashad and plasma gun I think? that have niche circumstances or setups where you need it

for breakpoints

but yeah like you say, he lacks accuracy but he was entertaining

I dont mind someone giving out bad info if they're cool

[dim citrus]

Maybe it's because Vent Purge affects the players while Lights Out more affects the map

[pastel yew]

we all here to play a game

[pastel yew]

cant even claim to have the faintest idea of why tbh, it's just weird

[pastel yew]

most recent video was very tanner esque though

community needs less tanner figures more ryken figures..

[light ridge]

He's pretty chill about criticism, I particularly like how he handled Tanner

[manic cloak]

An inefficient talent pick for 20% conditional brittleness that doesn't directly drive you to WS seems not worth it.

[pastel yew]

he is chill about criticism yee I'll agree there

[dim citrus]

I mean, to be properly cool is do good research in the first place

[wanton dawn]

Is it about the video on aura i did not watch earlier ? #veteran-class message

[manic cloak]

Is he though? Did you not watch his video where he goes on the "Uncanny Strike on knife is a bad take" rant?

[dim citrus]

Wait does he think Uncanny Strike is not good?

[manic cloak]

Yeah he did for a short time

Prior to Locked and Loaded patch I believe

He had a Plasma/Knife build showcase where he went off for like 15 minutes on how Uncanny is a useless blessing pick

[dim citrus]

Weird

Also I have NEVER used Plasma
It's my last gun to level up
What's the general build for it?

[wanton dawn]

Idk how you stand to watch 15 min of build showcase on youtube though

[manic cloak]

Point and click. It's one of the easiest weapons to use, and requires very little talent investment. Check the stickied guide for weapon setup, recommended talents to hit breakpoints are included.

[dim citrus]

I mean, people watch 10 hour videos where a guy just recaps the plot of a thing

I can believe people watch a 15 minute build video if they think it helps them

[manic cloak]

I find his takes interesting to say the least. Such as his recent stint on Plasma being the best ranged pick in Havoc 40. Spent the entire run hoovering up every single ammo container.

[wanton dawn]

Well, it would be more interesting to know what are the comparison point

recon ?

[pastel yew]

at least in response to every comment I've left he's responded well or agreed

never been insulting or rude

but no I've not seen that rant

[wanton dawn]

Revolver ?

[heavy rover]

i personally like the mk ii infantry las for havoc. Haven't found myself running low on ammo. If anything, I've been offering the ammo to the rest of the team

[wanton dawn]

Well, lasgun can be good, but it is definitely not a meta pick

And definitely not as straightforward

[sturdy snow]

Meta this, Meta that. Have you ever met a girl (am entirely joking btw)

[dim citrus]

I mean, have you?

[manic cloak]

For Havoc 40?

[pastel yew]

why meet a girl when you can be one, stay winnin

[sturdy snow]

ahem be one

[wanton dawn]

Well, I am not making video essay on how I met your mother

[sturdy snow]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-bender-your-mother-robot-gif-5758377

[latent parcel]

@vernal trench wheres metaman when u need him!

[manic cloak]

Laspistol currently outperforms Lasgun in almost every category at the moment, especially in Havoc 40 when ammo efficiency is preferred so you can pair with flamer Zealots.

[dim citrus]

Sure but how does that help with Havoc 40 Sister

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-snap-himym-how-i-met-your-mother-barney-stinson-barney-gif-27378133

[sturdy snow]

You have to start complaining to the heretics, really loud

[heavy rover]

better coordination with team comp

[dim citrus]

Wait is the girl complaining to the heretics or is the team complaining about the girl to the heretics?

[sturdy snow]

Yes

[vernal trench]

gone

reduced to atoms

[pastel yew]

rest in piss metaman...

[latent parcel]

you playin?

[south gazelle]

can anyone around the Havoc 35 or higher can host? (good player please)

[vernal trench]

eya

[latent parcel]

hit me if u got a spot

[vernal trench]

ayo ist @severe yacht the metaman?

is

[vernal trench]

were full rn

[severe yacht]

?

[vernal trench]

wrong guy

[unreal nova]

Wait, how are you still grey named?

[marsh shard]

Vet has an insane tree, why exactly isn't it considered as good if not better than Zealot in melee?

[pastel yew]

it is considered good and better than zealot

or.. I mean they have different strengths I guess

zealot is tankier and gets throwing knives so they can take utility secondary

vet has better damage and breakpoints

[latent parcel]

does good damage in melee just squisher then zealot

[unreal nova]

Zealot unga bunga still fine, Vet unga bunga risk going splat.

[trim steppe]

Yeah zealot has some insane survivability. Vet has very good melee as well but zealot can pull off some crazy shit

Both are excellent melee tho

[charred pulsar]

Man the tac axe is way better than expected, it may not maul crushers but the utility from the dodge blessing and everything else is too good, I always jumped between shovel or powersword but ill keep this thing, thanks again 😩

[severe yacht]

invisible 🙂

[unreal nova]

[formal ice]

He just talked 2 times

Thats why

[unreal nova]

I guess more jumping into vox than text.

[formal ice]

He just been observing yall

[unreal nova]

Sus.

[vernal trench]

aight i can play now

[grand perch]

[latent parcel]

what lobby

[gleaming turtle]

I just want to make sure I'm not imagining something.

The Recon Las, when you hipfire it, the laser is... sticky for you guys, right?

[latent parcel]

Solid list. Which ILG and what do u run on it?

[calm shard]

you see how literally all the good shit is in the middle tree

VoC is more or less just a worse book

better at what exactly

because you can also just cancel book early

if you wanna

okay but the knock down stagger is insanely annoying

and makes it harder to kill the enemies

[pastel yew]

all of those sound like the expected though I'm surprised the bolter is so high, whats up with that?

[calm shard]

it also means inevitably you're going to miss like one poxwalker, or shooter or whatever because they're faceplanted on the floor amongst a sea of corpses

and then they're going to smack you on the ass the second you turn around

[calm shard]

my bet would be that it both has really good damage for sniping specials, and firing it full auto is a very good "oh shit" button

alongside shrapnel boosting shredder grenade damage

[pastel yew]

sluggish not a lot of ammo right?

though I guess it has been increased since last I used it

also bolt pistol basically doing the same thing just without auto fire and while making nades better

[calm shard]

115 is plenty for a gun that you're mostly keep in your back pocket

[pastel yew]

I honestly just hate the draw time on the bolter

why I gotta slap this bitch every time

[vernal trench]

any

u go in one ill join u

[latent parcel]

69

[pseudo fiber]

What value do you see in bolter over bolt pistol?

[inland orchid]

Mag dumping

[latent parcel]

@vernal trench st 69

[pastel yew]

bolt pistol my beloved

nah I like the movespeed, the draw time

the reload speed

it's just a lot less clunky

the grenade interaction is pretty overstated in how good it is imo, like its good but not that good

I also dont think you have to swap to the bolt pistol

[inland orchid]

You don’t need to have the bolt pistol out to use the cheese frag

You just need the gun

[pastel yew]

isnt it always active even when pocketed

so you can bp + uncanny

[inland orchid]

You could be a full melee vet rocking the bolt pistol just for the bigger shredders

[pastel yew]

I do sorta hate uncanny applying to the bleed stacks though

its such a huge damage spike from a clearly unintended interaction

it's far far more offensive than the extra 2.5m you get from lethal imo

[hallow eagle]

What are the best blessings for DS4?

I see a few variations.... 😖

[pastel yew]

this apparently

referring to the guide as I havent used it on vet and dont intend to

just a less cool combat blade

even if its damage is stacked...

[hallow eagle]

Wouldn't it be the same on all classes?

[pastel yew]

nah because other classes have different skills different everything

[hallow eagle]

So Uncanny + Reposte

[grand perch]

and i go agile because

you know

https://tenor.com/view/dodge-the-matrix-swerve-lunge-dive-gif-22197111

[hallow eagle]

Notice any difference?

[pseudo fiber]

High havoc you can also use uncanny agile

[pastel yew]

uncanny riposte is what I run on the combat blade, similar weapons so... you're not gonna go wrong

is uncanny agile really all that good though?

dodge recovery time is so short idk

like it seems fine but losing out on giga crit is a sacrifice

[tawny badger]

short dodge recovery time vs virtually no dodge recovery time

[pastel yew]

I guess the benefit of agile is that you can use those dodges for fast combat positioning without loss of defence...

at least that's the main thing I think I could draw from it

as you say, the slight delay for dodge recovery isnt really that big during normal play since you arent just dodging constantly and dont need to

[pseudo fiber]

As I said the only time I've gotten use is on like havoc 35+

Even then not great!

[tawny badger]

if anything why not give it a run or two to see how it works

[pastel pumice]

Agile? That's like infinite dodging lol

[hallow eagle]

@formal lake @pastel yew Okay, what about on Psyker what should I use?

[pastel yew]

because I'd have to craft a ds for vet and honestly I really dont wanna use it

[pastel yew]

I'd probably run the same again, I can't remember the crit skils in the psyker tree though

[tawny badger]

your bones will be confiscated

[pastel yew]

does the crit dodge thing in psyker work on melee attacks?

or just ranged

I cant remember

do most havoc psykers not run force sword for peril build?

[tawny badger]

I’d imagine both unless it explicitly says melee/ranged

[pastel yew]

boring weapon

combat blade cooler

mk3 my beloved

[hallow eagle]

So don't use DS on Psyker ?

[patent rapids]

Just read that the "beat a mission on heresy without taking damage" penance can be cheesed by disconnecting in the end of the game, reconnecting and evacing then, is that true?

[pastel yew]

maybe though just run shout n do a mission

[hallow eagle]

What do you use the greatsword on....? Specials?

[trim steppe]

I thought that was patched a long time ago but i could be mistaken

[pastel yew]

least from what I understand you literally cant take melee damage with gold toughness

since its only damage to health

[inland orchid]

Idk but I remember the penance specifying health dmg from melee, so you got 1 freebie hit

At max toughness

[pastel yew]

not always

[patent rapids]

Yep, but what kills me most runs is that 1-2 chip damage that goes through whenever your toughness is not 100%

[pastel yew]

some enemy attacks bypass toughness straight to health

bruisers for example

[rustic beacon]

I just went for the take-no-damage penance while farming my havoc assists

[inland orchid]

Makes sense to me

I got lucky with a rager doing it so my hp didn’t get touched

Lucked out on the penance

[pastel yew]

yeah its unfortuante but if you really wanna game it just take shout n max recovery

[patent rapids]

Thanks for the shout idea though, was trying to use the stealth but it's meh

[pastel yew]

nah since all it takes is one shitter bruiser to appear while you're coming around a corner or doing x to lose it

its not a super hard one to get tho

[grand perch]

i have a guy in my team running these on 32 havoc

[tawny badger]

play VoC tank veteran and accidentally get On Overwatch

[pastel yew]

wowza....

I've resigned myself to just

never getting the barrel one

[tawny badger]

barrel kills against enemies or teammates

[pastel yew]

its way too fuckin many kills

I'll shoot them when I see em but

its just way too many

every game with achievements always has to include some really annoying tedious ones

[tawny badger]

it's for bragging rights I guess

[pastel yew]

ah shit I forgot about the grim ones

also did I miss some change

or are grim and scrip missions way rarer now

[tawny badger]

grimoires 🤮

[trim steppe]

Maulers? Reapers is the slow one for me

And barrels, yeah

[pastel yew]

at least the maulers n reapers you will just get from

playing the game normally

who out here trying to maximize the number of kills they get from a barrel

[trim steppe]

I naturally get a few barrel kills per game, so it does add up. Just SO SLOWLY

I have like 250 maulers and about 130 reapers currently

but I haven't been playing a lot of vet recently so thats probably why

[pastel yew]

2500 though.. ;-

;-;;

like even if I'm getting 10 barrel kills a game which is fair

that's still 250 games

red barrels didnt even use to count

[trim steppe]

I know. I'm sitting on about 1900 barrel kills rn

[calm shard]

that penance was clearly made with the assumption that barrels do about 2000% more damage to enemies than they do

[pastel yew]

the radius on the yellow barrels is also not that big

[trim steppe]

For real. A point blank barrel explosion doesnt even kill poxxies at max hp on damnation. you have to soften them up

[loud belfry]

fire barrels and big hordes can add up bigly

[calm shard]

are you telling me the balance problems this game faces are because the devs are filthy casuals?

[pastel yew]

blessed change.. at least reds work now

[calm shard]

say it ain't so

[trim steppe]

Yup. Penance maker doesnt even play on damnation

[calm shard]

anyways how long has darktide been released for again?

[pastel yew]

I mean I will say all the dev gameplay I've seen has been

rough

2022 so... just over 2 years

god it feels so much longer

[trim steppe]

only if your team doesnt kill them all first, which is about 99% of the time lol

[calm shard]

hey sick that's about the same time when the devs gave up on balancing Vermintide 2 and started using almost entirely community suggestions

's what led to the greatsword rework

[pastel yew]

that sounds like such a monkeys paw request though

like I wouldnt mind the people in here pointing to changes

[calm shard]

worked well for Fatsharks last game

[pastel yew]

but the general community at large? nooooooooooooo thank you

[calm shard]

And it wasn't just broadly the community

suggestions mostly from the people that were making class guides and resources for the game iirc

the nerds

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean that sounds valid

we'll see how active the devs are next year though

nah I mean I agree, but you ddont have to be good at a game to understand numbers you look at

if you design something and then see the numbers at higher diffs will make this sucky

[calm shard]

looking at the numbers would certainly prevent ogryn from getting nerfed despite being the worst class in the game again

[pastel pumice]

Said it before, will say it again

Powerfist for Vets will fix the game

[calm shard]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1033034004288520254/1117316081426628649/IMG_0262.gif

[pastel yew]

which class isnt

[pastel pumice]

All problems will go away with the addition of this weapon

[pastel yew]

outside of the classes that are overpowered both at low and high diffs

[calm shard]

every class is grossly overpowered on low difficulty

that's why you don't balance around them

[pastel yew]

preach

[calm shard]

the breaking point of a classes viability is always going to be on the higher difficulties

[pastel yew]

nah skill floor for zealot is

in the core of atoma somewhere

[crisp oak]

Yeah zealot has the lowest skill floor

[calm shard]

also there's zero way ogryn is easier than zealot

[pastel yew]

you have to be actual primate to die as zealot

in lower difficulties at least

or a complete new player

conceivably you can die as ogryn if you dont read which is on brand

but zealot nah you just livin

[pastel pumice]

New Vet page btw

[pastel yew]

wow that is

[calm shard]

you can die as an ogryn if you do read and (wrongfully) assume your skills work how they say they do

[pastel yew]

hideous

[loud belfry]

I like ogryn cuz pickaxe is so big and strong

[pastel pumice]

Yeah lol

[crisp oak]

You push and dodge as ogryn....

Otherwise you take tons of chip damage

[pastel yew]

I dont think having low skill ceilings is a problem though

[calm shard]

Yeah this really reads like you haven't ever actually played ogryn at high level yourself

[pastel yew]

as long as there are varied challenging classes for people that want them

[calm shard]

if you aren't dodging you get shot to death

[pastel yew]

as long as the upper limit in power potential is even and balanced

which I mean its not

[calm shard]

if you aren't pushing you don't stagger ragers

[pastel yew]

idk I could conceivably see a slab shield ogryn

not dodging and being fine

the stagger on that things nuts

[calm shard]

not against gunners

[pastel yew]

you get enough toughness back

on heavies

so long as you arent gettin stabbed also

[crisp oak]

With pickaxe you need to dodge ragers a bit

[pastel yew]

I mean to be fair it's not like just dodging is really going to make the game as easy for them as everyone else

they're still huge

[crisp oak]

Yeah there is no reason to use anything other than gun, pushes (if specced that way), dodging, and heavies

[pastel yew]

even outside of being huge their mobility is also dogshit

slowest movespeed, and no real contenders for boosting it with weapon options

[crisp oak]

Zealot just has to dodge and melee (for toughness gen)

As a floor

[pastel yew]

man I wish the ogryn auto shotty was better

though I guess thats the same for the regular combat shotguns

a lot of shotguns get done dirty in this game

real

[crisp oak]

They nerfed my baybe

The kantrael

And its never been the same

[pastel yew]

I honestly still wouldnt use the kickback on vet

[crisp oak]

Same

[pastel yew]

weapon too op

idk I want the regular shotguns to feel impactful

[crisp oak]

It was so nice lighting up a horde

[pastel yew]

I wanna pull it out and paste a dude

there are loads of weapons that are insane on vet though

[crisp oak]

Rumbler on vet with weapon specialist

[pastel yew]

only because survivalist and weapon spec tho

[crisp oak]

Yup

Any of oggys guns would be good on vet though

[pastel pumice]

Vet should get access to all weapons

[pastel yew]

like mechanically it's damage isn't that much more impressive its just that vet has cheats to cute all that ails it

cure*

[pastel pumice]

Lol imagine Vet with shield and mace

[crisp oak]

Vet with the heacy stubber

[pastel yew]

I beeeeeeeeeeeegggg

I'm so sad the shock mauls didnt come with a shield

let me arbites rp

[crisp oak]

Buff the combat shotties

[pastel yew]

honestly the new stubbers on vet would be so fun

[crisp oak]

I miss them

[crisp oak]

Yup

The fact that the slug doesnt oneshot gunners is a crime

[calm shard]

okay went into psykhanium because this bothered me

yeah the uh limit for this is 3 gunner

2 gunners you can barely regen toughness through their damage while managing a horde

3 just no chance

[pastel yew]

I'm honestly a little shoock by that

isnt every slab shield heavy 2 literally full toughness refresh

[calm shard]

all 3 curios with gunner resist, built like this

was using karsolas pickaxe not slab shield

[pastel yew]

I see I see

[calm shard]

slab shield would probably be 4 gunners

it's not really a feasible thing to just tank gunners

[pastel yew]

with proper positioning I think

you could get it done

but sorta defeats the point because at that point you're doing something harder than dodging

[calm shard]

yeah but if you hae proper positioning you're not really just tanking them

[paper trellis]

Okay but vet with a minigun would be so fun

[calm shard]

it's literally in the artwork for left tree veteran

so it should be an option, and yet it isn't

[crisp oak]

Yeah it would be great

[paper trellis]

Which is a little surprising since left side is for precision shots

I at least want an lmg, but both would be ideal

[pastel yew]

I dont think a full auto lmg would be that fun though

itd just be the same issue the braced autoguns have

as I assume they'd work similarly

[paper trellis]

Where can’t hit anything far away for a damn?

[pastel yew]

mmh, and no easy access to weakspot hits for your mega damage

shit for finesse

like maybe it could work as a more accuarate heavy hitter

some kinda overheat mechanic

[paper trellis]

Lmgs don’t really work like that irl. They function more like assault rifles with bigger bullets and capacity but are heavy as fuck

[calm shard]

well

it could make use of the most obscure unlisted passive in the game

[pastel yew]

sure but irl a tiny revolver is also not an anti tank rifle ;p

[calm shard]

Veteran automatically peeks over cover when you ADS while crouched behind it

and no other class does

[pastel yew]

holy...

[paper trellis]

The big frame revolver is loaded in 45-70. Literally designed to kill elephants

Or bfr

[pastel yew]

that is not what we got

we got stub revolver which isfar smaller

[paper trellis]

I did not know that

[calm shard]

but tbh it's entirely possible even Fatshark doesn't remember that's in the game

[pastel yew]

the fucky thing is there is a weapon in 40k called a "hand cannon"

[dry cloak]

catachan revolver when

[pastel yew]

which is a revolver with more punch

it's literally the source of the blessings name...

I dont understand why we never just got a huge calibur revolver instead

so you can have the snappy elite killer.. and the meaty boom cannon

[paper trellis]

Yeah I’m just saying you can absolutely load a revolver in anti armor rounds. They just fucking suck to use

[pastel yew]

mechanically whatever it brings has to be balanced

if it has lots of ammo, and shoots fast

it needs to hit soft

[paper trellis]

Technically there is a 50bmg “pistol” too, but it’s an abomination

[calm shard]

nah make it shoot fast, loads of ammo, hits hard

[marsh shard]

What is bolt pistol's niche supposed to be lol

[pastel yew]

[calm shard]

heat mechanic like plasma gun

"venting" animation is having to replace the barrel of the gun

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean a mechanic like that could bring it back into line

[calm shard]

which takes for fucking ever

[paper trellis]

Lmgs really don’t shoot that fast generally speaking

[pastel yew]

but I think something a little slower firing, harder hitting would be cooler

[calm shard]

well duh that's why WEAPON MARKS exist

the shooty fasty lmg is the same one as the bigger slower one

[marsh shard]

Plasma pistol

[paper trellis]

Headshots and spicy crowd clear from point blank

[calm shard]

slightly worse revolver with way more ammo

also buffs your shredder grenades because it's bugged

[paper trellis]

What’s worse is that gunners get miniguns, so why can’t we

[pastel yew]

their guns got nurgy stink

though yknow... what we do when the heretics start saying "these loyalists have got boltguns, so why cant we"

[marsh shard]

Plasma pistol should be an elite killer. Should have great handling and solid ammo reserve, but doodoo af heat management

[pastel yew]

I mean the issue is thats what the plasma gun does

[loud belfry]

tbf their sniper rifle is strong enough to compete with a bolt gun. or at least, seems like it

[pastel yew]

the problem with a theoretical plasma pistol is that although cool aesthetically

[paper trellis]

Shoot them in the face

[pastel yew]

there isnt a gameplay niche for it

[marsh shard]

Fair

Well

[loud belfry]

wouldn't a plasma pistol be a weird revolver

or weird hand cannon otherwise

[grand perch]

time to post this again
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1eosvn1/did_you_know_veteran_has_a_cover_peeking_mechanic/

[pastel yew]

like looking at the boltgun and the bolt pistol, the bolt pistol lost dps and got better handling and elite clear

[paper trellis]

Have it play the same niche as it has in sm2. Explosive shots that bully crowds

[marsh shard]

Make it horde clear but do doodoo elite

[odd sparrow]

plasma pistol should have like 3 shots before over heating

or all its shot function as charged but over heats in like 2 shots

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean you could get it doing something super unique

I dont think I'd take a range weapon that focusses on horde clear though

that sounds borderline useless

I guess you could weapon spec it

mmh mmh

idk its a lot of work to add a weapon that wont have a good place to fit rather than adding other weapons to fill other holes in the roster..

[grand perch]

when chain axe was much suckier i was trying to get a ranged weapon for horde clear

[pastel yew]

like the power fist.. >:D

[grand perch]

brautoguns came close but its still a waste

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I tried the same but honestly I think its just frags are gonna be way better

[paper trellis]

I wish I liked brauto as much as I liked auto

[pastel yew]

since you only need to drop one

[marsh shard]

If psyker can bring a staff for cc and horde clear, vet can pop out his energy pistol and drops bombs on a horde

[pastel yew]

and then your breakpoints arent shit

thats also without mentioning the current plasma gun also already has silly levels of horde clear

unless its super split

[marsh shard]

True

[pastel yew]

what is it like 20 plebs? it can cleave through

[odd sparrow]

yeah plasma is currently just insane

[pastel yew]

100 cleave? 5 per goon

I cant member the numbers

[odd sparrow]

50 cleave on normal 100 on charged i believe

[pastel yew]

mmmh yee that sounds about right

[marsh shard]

No

I have a solution

[paper trellis]

That’s like saying the bolt pistol has no niche because the bolter exists
Faster swap speed and instant charge, more mobility, little less ammo and single target damage

[odd sparrow]

think its less per goon like 1 or 2

[pastel yew]

no but the bolt pistol absolutely has a niche

I literally said what it was

better handling and elite

boltgun is dps

but if you apply that logic to the plasma pistol like

sure you can have its handling be better

but it isnt goign to be lower dps or better into elite because of how the plasma functions

its also a semi auto weapon

[marsh shard]

Plasma Pistol SHOULD be a worse Plasma Rifle.

The solution is to give other classes the plasma pistol and let vet keep plasma rifle exclusively

[pastel yew]

like you could maybe giga reduce its cleave n impact and make it fire faster?

[calm shard]

that would certainly be an option as well

[pastel yew]

should but... general pattern seems to be the pistols just being better

[odd sparrow]

makes decent sense yeah

[pastel yew]

outside of the autopistol

[marsh shard]

Bolter?

[pastel yew]

issue then is its just boltpistol 2

[odd sparrow]

i mean thats from a mechanical perspective

[pastel yew]

bolt pistol is a better weapon than the regular bolter for sure

outside of like boss damage

[marsh shard]

What makes it better?

[odd sparrow]

could make the charged shot have the cleave back so it can still do nutty clear situationally

[pastel yew]

better mobility, better swap speed, better blessings

it buffs your grenades and has none of the drawbacks the bolter does

it just loses full auto

[odd sparrow]

the swap speed on bolter can be dealt with by cancelling animations but that shit is super cumbersome keeping in mind constantly

[marsh shard]

No mag dump

[charred pulsar]

No mag dump 😔

No boom boom boom boom boom

[pastel yew]

yeah no mag dump is the main downside

which is why its boss damage is poopoo

but whether mag dump is optimal or not...

lot of ammo

[charred pulsar]

It makes my brain go

[pastel yew]

mag dump exec stance is one of the most fun builds in the game

[marsh shard]

How good are kraks vs bosses?

Sorry, new to vet

[dim citrus]

Why does the Killshot pants have camo when the top half doesn't?

[hollow ibex]

good, you'll want to take tinkerer though (which is very easy to pick up along the way)

[charred pulsar]

People at fatshark have no fashion sense, have you seem the newest comodores rotation?

[dim citrus]

This fits better with the torso

[charred pulsar]

Aye

[dim citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-tf2-team-fortress2-valve-laugh-gif-15922933

They suck, wow

I mean, if I had to single out the good stuff

The Vet jacket could be used in a proper set
The jail mask for Zealot could work with others
Cyber eye for Ogryn

[charred pulsar]

At least the axe skin and the skull/flame stuff is nice

But everything elseeeee uhhhh nop

[dim citrus]

Is this just a grey hammer skin?

[charred pulsar]

At least not for what I´m looking for

[charred pulsar]

Is just the center part slighly darker

[blazing parrot]

The vet jacket looks nice but the pants are too similar to what you can unlock and the hood could look good with other stuff

[charred pulsar]

The thing where it connects the stick with the upper thing

[dim citrus]

We can't even forget the most desirable item in the shop

We clearly never seen these before

I forget trinkets are a thing

[blazing parrot]

lmao 50 billionth time those have been in shop

[dim citrus]

These have Ork energy at least

[charred pulsar]

I dont even like trinkets, dont want dangling stuff in my weapons

[dim citrus]

Thing is, the cybernetic eye is just a copy

[blazing parrot]

the hood kinda goes with the infiltrator set

[charred pulsar]

XD

[dim citrus]

Edgy smile makes me not want it

[blazing parrot]

true

[charred pulsar]

Hold on bro let me wrap this rag properly so the smile match with my mouth

[warm bolt]

[blazing parrot]

thank fuck for show on mannequin

[dim citrus]

SOCIETY

Hey pre-servitors

I think the Imperium....might have problems and be bad

Let me paint a smile on my rags

[blazing parrot]

I'd love to see what else they could go for but that will be in 5 months

[serene bough]

Whats new for vet cosmetics

[serene bough]

Ty

Interesting items

[warm bolt]

I like the chainsword but tbh nothing else catches the eye imo

[pastel pumice]

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR

THAT GOES HARD

literally copped that the moment I saw it

Only reason and valid reason for me to use the chainsword

[twin ingot]

I just want a good shock maul skin

[serene bough]

Im always more interested in the individual items over the full sets

I could see the dune camo being a nice mix-n-match item

[hollow ibex]

i wished the color was more... sandly

and i guess headpieces are all now 900 aquilas lmao

[faint beacon]

You will pay 5+ USD for one head piece cosmetic

[twin ingot]

I wish most simple headpieces like a rag over your head be like 100 and not 900

or free

[hollow ibex]

tencent must grow

[slow spade]

Yeah For the Drip sadly seems to be the best way to actually look good

[twin ingot]

they own under 40% of FS doubt they have a big say so compared to Gamesworkshop

[slow spade]

Wouldn't doubt Tencent had a hand in the shitty monetization

[twin ingot]

I still think it was GW as a tencent game would have the cosmetics being shoved up your screen 90% when playing their game

I say this as someone who played their games

God I wanna bleach my brain from those games

[serene bough]

I use cashback on my credit card for darktide cosmetics lols

Thats how I justify spending 5$ for a bandana

[hollow ibex]

stuck between tencent and GW lol

what an unfortunate position to be in

for both the company and the players

[loud belfry]

what sort of cashback are you getting that you can justify it that way?

[serene bough]

Discover Cash Back

[loud belfry]

what % is it, or is it points?

[hollow ibex]

i'm on discover and discovered i don't get shit for fuck 😭

[serene bough]

Each quarter there's 5% cash back on specific purchases and generally 1% return on anything else

Its a good beginner credit card I want to get a rewards one soon

[twin ingot]

If only FS buys themselves back, seriously why don't companies buy themselves back from what I like to call active corporate slavery

[hollow ibex]

its been years and i'm still on my first cc lol

[serene bough]

Basic cash back is enough for small purchases like video game cosmetics

[amber mortar]

omg it looks so stupid

[serene bough]

This quarter it's 5% back on resturaunts, home improvement, and streaming services

[amber mortar]

autistic emo kid vibe

[blazing parrot]

yeah tbh its shit

[crude fiber]

ive completed multiple havocs this week and its not updating the highest rank completed thing for me

[loud belfry]

lots of people are saying that

the patch notes mentioned some sort of caveat but i dont remember what it was exactly

[crude fiber]

womp, i did get an extra reward cache when the fixed the glitch maybe that has something to do with it

[loud belfry]

"This week only, some players might not receive a notification pop-up regarding their rewards, that said rewards will still be granted."

i dont really know what that means but it doesnt seem to be the same thing, but seems related at least

[crude fiber]

probably not the same issue but hopefully it is lol

[quartz viper]

I've seen some people dressed like Commissars, how?

[pastel pumice]

They were lucky to be playing the game for the 6 weeks the Commissar set was out

[hollow ibex]

They stole Dukanes wardrobe

[pastel pumice]

I want to steal Dukane's heart

[grand perch]

i want her out the airlock, together with melk and hallowette

[dim citrus]

Right what's the easiest way to do this one

Almost done with all Vet penances

[narrow frost]

when you get 10 stacks, it counts any kills

so get the 10 stacks and then you can melee a horde

[dim citrus]

Noted

[pastel pumice]

you headshot people

[forest maple]

Is there any particular reason to continue doing havoc 40 missions after you've done your havoc 40 clearance for the week?

[latent parcel]

its fun

[forest maple]

I see

[tawny timber]

twitch drop skin

🤣

[light ridge]

Recon lasgun spray

[tawny timber]

t itanfall 2 ahh skins

[fervent mesa]

is there a reason I see most builds I see online not pick grenade tinkerer? it seem slike a pretty op point to me especially for krak

[tawny timber]

cause shredder is already powerful

i think

[quartz viper]

Shit.

[tawny timber]

i run it for krak but i feel like krak needs a lot of nodes to be good

[fervent mesa]

probably why, im still not very high difficulty so krak deletes everything I see including witches

im talking malice difficulty

[tawny timber]

yeah i notice krak is more common in lower dif

[fervent mesa]

I say witches like this is l4d2

I meant daemonhost

[tawny timber]

in damnation u generally see more shredders since its busted

and you get 1 more shredder than krak

for some reason

[grand perch]

krak needs the least amount of points

[tawny timber]

fr?

i hate only getting 2 grenades

after being a long time shredder user

[pastel yew]

yeah tinkerer really helps them a lot

kraks need the least amount of points if you're not going through survivalist tho ye

since you can just path down through tinkerer

[tawny timber]

why would i not go through survivalist

[pastel yew]

all in the same tree

saving points really

[tawny timber]

hm

[pastel yew]

and the nodes above survivalist are dogshit

survivalist is also dogshit outside of high havoc

not that the other auras are anything to write home about

[tawny timber]

awful take but ok

[broken spade]

just tell the other vet to grab survivalist

[pastel yew]

I mean it is

it's impossible to run out of ammo in regular auric play

I'll grab my comment one sec

[broken spade]

and melee maelstrom

[pastel yew]

yeah melee maelstroms a fair shout

[pastel yew]

you get way way too much ammo already

[tawny timber]

🤨

[pastel yew]

there's 0 reason to waste points grabbing survivalist unless you're just especially considerate

[broken spade]

havoc reducing ammo pickup gains by 75% really shows you how easy you have it normally

[pastel yew]

yeah and even in havoc its not an absolute must have

though it is real good

it just goes to show my point though

[broken spade]

yeah i've lived without survivalist before

[pastel yew]

honestly the ammo econ balancing everywhere is terrible

[broken spade]

mainly because grenade regen though

on havoc

[pastel yew]

especially since its not even consistent between weapons

some weapons are really ammo hungry and do less than other weapons which are... really ammo efficient and just generally better?

[terse idol]

I've lived with survivalist like giving me juuust enough to make it to the next box

I mean ahh

If your team doesn't share then you as an individual can easily run out of ammo in an auric depending on how much you use your gun

Least that's the way I see it

[pastel yew]

pretty much every weapon I use are accurate weapons so that's not really a problem for me

normally I'm barely picking up ammo outside of the full refil

[broken spade]

Ideally weapons that have better burst damage should be less ammo efficient than others
Cause they'd trade efficiency for being able to just solve a fight completely

[pastel yew]

as long as you're hitting weakspot hits its really hard to run out

[terse idol]

Same, but when you pickup a bolter or sometimes a bistol

It can get tight

[pastel yew]

nah bistol is fine but

I can understand the bolter

the call of the full auto

[terse idol]

[pastel yew]

every bolter vet I encounter picks up 3-4x as much ammo as everyone else but

yknow what god speed

lmao

[pastel yew]

yeah thats fairly accurate but not a complete rule, given the columnus infantry autogun is surprisingly efficient

recon lasguns too

[broken spade]

yeah i'm saying how i think it should be, not how it is

[pastel yew]

I see I see

I mean yeah the weapons need like... an across the board balance pass

[fervent mesa]

is there a reason to pick bolter over plasma gun

[pastel yew]

they're a bit of a mess rn

[pastel yew]

uhhhhhhhhh I mean... yesnt

they're both real good

the boltgun has better burst against bosses I think

[broken spade]

plasma and infantry autoguns are so efficient for also being fight-winning guns

[pastel yew]

yeah the plasma gun is nuts for how little ammo it uses

[hollow ibex]

bolter is sex

plasma is limp dick

[brittle turret]

helbore.

[hollow ibex]

so yeah, good reasons to use bolter over plasma

[pastel yew]

plasma is chill point and click adventure game

bolter is the same point and click adventure game with an aim bug and clunky handling

[hollow ibex]

[midnight totem]

Puncture

Also higher burst dps

[pastel yew]

do you need puncture if they're just dead tho

bolt pistol is just the cooler bolt weapon anyway

[midnight totem]

Pus hardened laughs at plasma gun

Anyway, you do get more ammo with the bolter over bolt pistol

[pastel yew]

I thought they were both 120?

[midnight totem]

nah

[pastel yew]

ah nah the bp only gets 80 ye

[midnight totem]

bolter is 105 reserve, bp only gets 80

[pastel yew]

though I will say you get a little more out of the ammo for the bp tho

[midnight totem]

still quite a lot, mind you, I'm coming from the revolver angle of things

[pastel yew]

since you can more heavily rely on weapon spec and crits

for breakpoints

yeah the zarona reserve is real low

[hollow ibex]

imagine not being able to go full auto l o l

[pastel yew]

imagine having to spend 3 eons pulling out your weapon l o l

bolt pistol feels so much cooler

quick draw headshot

blam

[midnight totem]

I only spend one eon with one motion

[pastel yew]

real

the boltgun is fun for like a lil spice every now n then but

[hollow ibex]

never have to do that in a match, all good 👍

[pastel yew]

I definitely prefer higher mobility

[midnight totem]

I mean, yeah, weapon swapping is slow, but its just something you have to learn to deal with

[pastel yew]

based exec stance

[midnight totem]

my two main havoc based builds

one runs knife bolter, the other runs dueling sword plasma

I can easily swap the weapons around

[pastel pumice]

bolter across the board for my builds

[pastel yew]

think the knife is the only melee weapon I've used in the past like 50 hours

[pastel pumice]

bolter ds

bolter knife

[pastel yew]

I cant detach from the speed...

[pastel pumice]

bolter axe

I luhhh bolter

[midnight totem]

my favorite build is still power sword zarona though

stealth vet

[pastel yew]

I do have a perfect roll blue boltgun sitting in my stash..

maybe I should craft it up

[pastel pumice]

psword with bolter

I luhhh bolter

Axe skin on Psyker's page

IS so sexy

[midnight totem]

too bad its for tactical axe

[pastel pumice]

2x

[tall torrent]

Tac axe and twin stubber skins are nice

Zealot upper body is alr

Rest are meh lol

[pastel pumice]

none of the featured appeal to me except for vet's torso and legs

the new chainsword skin is so peak

[tall torrent]

It’s a reskin and the original one is better imo

[warm bolt]

Chainsword is also neat i'd say

[pastel pumice]

missed on the original

only had this game for like 4 months

[tall torrent]

nah it came in the savlar chem dogs rerun a while back

[pastel pumice]

I remember seeing chem dogs

[warm bolt]

Wait there was a chem dog skin pack?

[pastel pumice]

Yeah

About 2 months ago

I think it was actually back in October

[crisp oak]

... it says combat axe though

[tall torrent]

nah the rerun is very recent

[pastel pumice]

wish they'd stop with this FOMO format

[warm bolt]

And still no vostroyans

[pastel yew]

the worst thing is

the shemagh

is actually nice

[warm bolt]

Yeah same

[pastel yew]

if it didnt have that horrid grin

whyy

[pastel pumice]

@crisp oak

We're cooked

[pastel yew]

fucking twitch streamer merch looking shemagh...

[crisp oak]

Lmao

[warm bolt]

Especially with the amount of skins they have in rotation now

[tall torrent]

it's for tac axe

tac axe is coded as "combat_axe_p2_m1/m2/m3"

[warm bolt]

[crisp oak]

That is.... so stupid

[pastel pumice]

They dished out 2 chem dogs within these past months now that you mention it

[pastel yew]

also got this tendency to apply awful textures to fabric

which makes it look like you're wearing a curtain

[pastel pumice]

we get down and dirty

[pastel yew]

or a really shit wallpaper

tell me you havent seen this on an old ladies wall

[pastel pumice]

pants got that Victorian wallpaper

[pastel yew]

I just wish they'd stop overcomplicating things

the shemagh is such a wound I would probably have bought it without the weird twitch streamer grin

[crisp oak]

The zealot with his "who am i batman" energy

[light ridge]

Playing Damnation to try a build
Party folds fast, I get them through, party folds again, this time I get tapped by a crusher
2 17s and a 24, oh...

[brittle turret]

I tried to get a perfect Rashad

:(

[ocean idol]

How melee vet compares to zealot?

[narrow frost]

on par

[midnight totem]

Serves you right, cause axes are ugly

[narrow frost]

if your good with melee

vet has less crutches for melee (no until death)

but can still do the same damage

[brittle turret]

Until death is point tax for playing bad

[narrow frost]

k

[pastel yew]

nah even if you'r'e never gonna die until death is still good

if something else outside of your control goes wrong it gives you the unique ability to mega int completely safely

there are times you can save other people while passing through flames that'd other wise kill you

or some horde of ragers to accomplish something else

it's a good talent

the fact it lets you survive being randomly one shot isnt the whole picture

[twin ingot]

God damn it its the one with the mace tip I want one with a box top with spikes on it, give me one that has barbed wire on it and ill buy it in a split second

[tawny timber]

no

medeival flanged mace is king

[ocean idol]

Charge ult adds lots of damage thanks to attack speed buff though

[narrow frost]

correct

[vale wraith]

Just having a safety net lets you play a lot more aggressively and it removes a lot of random bullshit like your dodge getting randomly gimped by something.

And I’d much rather have the ability to cheat death rather than not

[twin ingot]

If they're gonna give us Medieval mace maul heads at least give us this kind

[pastel yew]

its also like

literally 1 point

because every zealot build is getting duelist

[hollow ibex]

just don't get hit bro

[pastel yew]

health is a resource

[vale wraith]

Yeah, it’s in one of the BEST spots in the tree for it lol

[pastel yew]

the only point that matters is the last one

[hollow ibex]

it's a meme

(my message, not health)

[pastel yew]

also you gonna take this garbage instead...

nah path down the right

[vale wraith]

Only argument I can see for not taking until death is just that a lot of your deaths are gonna be to disablers and until death does Jack shit then

[hollow ibex]

can be ok with some builds tbf

[vale wraith]

It’s okay for boss damage

[pastel yew]

it still keeps you alive for an extra5s

[vale wraith]

With bolter or something like that

[pastel yew]

if you get netted insomething really fucked up

that's actually not the worst

[pastel yew]

like what?

maybe I'm just too cagey around having no stamina

[ocean idol]

So how is it on par then?

[pastel yew]

vet has better damage

worse defence

[narrow frost]

vet has better melee damage baseline

and with power on ability

[pastel yew]

also weapon specialist is fucking degenerate strong

[narrow frost]

even more melee damage overall

[pastel pumice]

I luhhh WS

[pastel yew]

yeah weapon spec is super fun but its busted as hell

[vale wraith]

Yeah, vet has fury of the faithful on a keystone lol

[hollow ibex]

weapons that like spamming push attack

[pastel yew]

yeah its wild

0 cooldown fury of the faithful

without the toughness or movement but

still

[vale wraith]

It has a nerfed version of the toughness regen

Not that good though

[pastel yew]

I suppose yeah if you get the nodes

I like it but its expensive

vet has too many things to grab in the tree

[vale wraith]

I’d say just grab kill confirmed or out for blood instead of that node

[pastel yew]

the main insane thing about weapon spec though is pathing that way gives you +25% attack speed

and attack speed is multiplicative scaler

[ocean idol]

i always use it with agile engagments, now that shit is busted together

[pastel pumice]

For my DS + Bolter

[pastel yew]

another giga skill yeah I love it

[vale wraith]

Trench fighter drills also add to attack speed so yeah

Or multiply Irdk

[pastel pumice]

Add

[pastel yew]

yee I would class trench fighter as part of the keystone tho honestly

since you're very rarely if ever getting it without ws

[vale wraith]

I love constant 35% attack speed

Only downside of WS is that when you switch off it melee feels so slow

[crisp oak]

You get it with keystoneless vet

[light ridge]

How badly does Recon want Shocktrooper?
Wanting to get it on an Infiltration build but also kinda want some talents on the right tree

[vale wraith]

If you’re running recon you should definitely try to grab it

Makes it so much more ammo efficient

[crisp oak]

It helps ammo consumption immensely

[light ridge]

Trying to choose between:

[raw needle]

good luck on making both a good recon build and grabbing a keystone.....

[crisp oak]

Ill ask you this, how does the keystone help you?

If it doesnt help you.... don't use one

[light ridge]

Some Toughness recovery mostly

So probably not much

[hollow ibex]

skip the keystones unless you're focusing on melee, in which case go WS

[crisp oak]

Infiltrate recon feels off to me

[hollow ibex]

definitely do not bother with MF

[vale wraith]

I’d definitely drop something to take reciprocity on a recon build

[crisp oak]

This

[light ridge]

Seems indeed the main alternative

[pastel yew]

should 100% grab reciprocity

reciprocity is an insane node for laspistol n recon

[vale wraith]

Reciprocity is just kinda an insane node in general

[pastel yew]

yeah true but

it's especially impactful on the recon

[vale wraith]

True

I’d say instead of trying to force a keystone just take those two points and put ‘em in desperado and reciprocity

[crisp oak]

I dont like the recon, I crave the certainty of lead down range

[vale wraith]

And demo since it’s actually 3 points

[pastel yew]

isnt it really not that much at all?

maybe its good into carapace tho

but at the same time why would you shoot crushers

just seems a waste when they're so easily meleed

least threatening enemy in the game

[crisp oak]

If you have a melee weapon that can deal with them quickly

[pastel yew]

mf with 15 stacks is like 34% increased damage or something if finesse scaling path gave me is correct

focus target is then 35%.. technically sometimes against some targets but sorta meh

no way that's true

given the zarona exists

you often encountering... 11 crushers that you need to specifically shoot

[light ridge]

My recon eats bosses and crushers and anything in between