veteran-class

[dry cloak]

its guaranteed crits

[somber axle]

guaranteed crits on 1 shot

[dry cloak]

you mean 1 plasma shot yes?

[somber axle]

yeah

it's only the first shot after swap

[dry cloak]

then yes

[dry cloak]

its till the buff runs out

[somber axle]

yes and only for the first shot

you don't get guaranteed crits on follow up shots with the buff active

only ranged attack speed

[bitter turtle]

you get fire rate during the duration

but yea

only first shot gets the guaranteed crit

do you have any idea

how busted it would be

if it was guarnateed crits for 10 seconds or someshit

that would be insane

[somber axle]

if you swap melee and dunk on another 3 poxwalkers before swapping again with a Rashad you can just be fast about crits but like

[dry cloak]

i m ceraitn i get whole revolver clip of crits. but i wont argue

[steep grail]

rip focus target lol

[bitter turtle]

you might just be getting lucky

revolver has about 50% crit base if you run deadshot

[somber axle]

if you're not critting follow up shots are going to miss breakpoints unless you're at high stacks of Blaze Away or Rising Heat yeah?

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/5359b12a8f1663f7c263987fb6390d1d.png

here

it says on the tooltip itself

"ranged critical hit chance on your next shot"

they even make sure to differentiate the fire rate buff

[dry cloak]

my build goes something like this so no deadshot

[somber axle]

if you've got Reciprocity, Deadshot and Surgical with like 1 sec of ADS for 3 stacks you're sitting at like what 85%-90% crit without even looking at Weapon Spec right?

[bitter turtle]

yeah it would be pretty much guaranteed under those conditions

though they have no deadshot

[somber axle]

25% Rec, 25% DS, Surg 30%, 5% Vet base

[steep grail]

what a strange tree

[dry cloak]

why?

[bitter turtle]

missing a lot of important typical elements on vet trees

[steep grail]

i just never see vet builds that don't dip into the other two bottom rows

[somber axle]

a lot of investment into Infiltrate when most do 1, maybe 2 modifiers at most

but also yeah that

[bitter turtle]

tac awareness on the middle

precision strikes on the left

mostly

[dry cloak]

also 8 points are still free

[somber axle]

no Iron Will, no Precision Strikes, no Tactical Awareness

that's a wild tree

[steep grail]

weakspot damage, elite damage and extra ammo is like the holy trinity of every vet build i make

i can't live without them

can't recall the names of all three talents

[bitter turtle]

i would say

weakspot damage, tac awareness, and iron will

are the holy trinity

ive literally never made a build without those 3 at this point

[somber axle]

they're just universally useful on like all builds and so low investment unless you really worm it up zig zagging near the top and middle

[steep grail]

i think ive made a build without tactical awareness for exe stance

[bitter turtle]

oh

that would be possible

[somber axle]

that's fair

[bitter turtle]

though no iron will still is

[steep grail]

ahh

well it was a build for pre-made teams tbf

[bitter turtle]

just dont get hit right?

ez

[steep grail]

i was never actually gonna fight anything in melee

[dry cloak]

i dont get hit if everything is dead

[steep grail]

anything that i would be afraid of at least

[dry cloak]

by power of antax and double barrel

[frank ledge]

buff veteran

[dry cloak]

bodying crushers on the daily

[steep grail]

buff everyone until the game is unplayable

[dry cloak]

buff ogryn

[somber axle]

buff veteran... man could you imagine if they had muscle sliders so people could be more than twig

more model variation than tall vs short

[frank ledge]

Darcy was right about Veteran

We need BIG BICEPS

[dry cloak]

veteran after buff

[polar quiver]

human classes are already pretty well built for how skinny they are

[somber axle]

I would love if they made the Vets beefier tbh LOL

[polar quiver]

and lets be real if youre looking like that on the 40k corpse starch diet you'd be unit if you had a proper surplus

[somber axle]

we're on that penance legion reject diet still I guess

[dry cloak]

then go play ogyn

[somber axle]

I did but I'm not a fan of the class

[polar quiver]

we need

extra rations

[somber axle]

I got all Ogryn penances and was kinda done

I love seeing Ogryns in matches, I don't like playing them

[somber axle]

I love the rock LOL

but Recons...

[polar quiver]

i like ogryns because they always do some silly shit

and who doesnt like the big boom

[dry cloak]

remember ogryns are statistically most inteligent players

[steep grail]

ogryns who are actually good are scary

[somber axle]

idk who the most intelligent players are tbh but they have a very pretty guide

[polar quiver]

now imagine if ogryn didnt get nerfed like every time

[dry cloak]

imagine if ogryn lorewise

[somber axle]

I do remember seeing a lot of Ogryns using shield and literally just shield special in the middle of a hallway scared and refusing to move during waves when I was newer to the game LOL

[polar quiver]

imagine if lore friendly bolter would kill us instantly for daring to shoot it

[steep grail]

imagine if they paid any attention to ogryn's weapons and brought them up to pickaxe level

[somber axle]

now I mostly see Ogryns with stubbers asking for an extra tin or pack

[dry cloak]

we have arbites bolter

the human sized one

[somber axle]

Ogryn needs more love for sure

[steep grail]

lore accurate thunderhammer leaving a crater in the ground whenever you whiff with it

[dry cloak]

oh that would be cool

[polar quiver]

oh damn i didnt know thats a thing

i thought they just did some funny rule bending because its cool as fuck

[somber axle]

Ogryn power fist when

[bitter turtle]

Our weapons are the bargain bin versions

[somber axle]

let them punch

[dry cloak]

we have them by default

[bitter turtle]

Thats why the thammer prebuff was getting blocked by poxwalkers

And psword turns itself off every 3 swing

[dry cloak]

obese fish just doesnt allow to use them

[polar quiver]

would be funny if our weapons permanently malfunctioned

[somber axle]

the slap on the knife or whatever isn't enough I want to see an Ogryn punch something and that something to be obliterated

[steep grail]

obese stinky fish

hates ogryn

[polar quiver]

swing the relic blade and its rusty and breaks in half on carapace contact

[bitter turtle]

I hate ogryn too

Doing the penances was

[dry cloak]

i meant that we already have fuck of big fists. just cant use them as normal weapons

[bitter turtle]

[steep grail]

i hated ogryn penances

[bitter turtle]

Can't stand being slow

[polar quiver]

give ogryn brass knuckles

[somber axle]

the pickaxe and new stubber are nice steps in the right direction to make Ogryns more interesting because like if they didn't have pickaxes what even would be Ogryn melee meta right now?

[polar quiver]

or morbius steel knuckles

[steep grail]

shield probably

[dry cloak]

shield

[somber axle]

only shields...

[dry cloak]

or folding shovel

[somber axle]

I loved the shield when I did play Ogryn though

[polar quiver]

power maul kinda ok

[somber axle]

the Ogryn Enforcer set + shield Enforcer skin looks SO good

[dry cloak]

paul still needs love

or general rework from the ground up

adn variants

[polar quiver]

maybe the knife?

ogryn knife fun

[dry cloak]

mk4 is better than the other 2

[somber axle]

Ogryn knife so you can pet the dog (slap a pox hound in a corner for 5 minutes until it dies)

[dry cloak]

knives have punches

[polar quiver]

no idea the mark name i mainly used the one that looked like the stabby one but isnt

[dry cloak]

clubs have slaps

[somber axle]

clubs for petting

maybe they should just give Ogryn knife a blessing that makes their punches buffed or something

[dry cloak]

which one

[bitter turtle]

Almost thought you were talking about tekken for a second

Since my partner plays paul

[dry cloak]

paul is short for powermaul

atleast in this community

[bitter turtle]

Yes I gathered

I did say just for a second

[dry cloak]

clubs also need love

ogryns generally need more weapons

[bitter turtle]

New ogryn weapon

Even bigger stick

Something something heavy attacking

Very slow

There you go

Hire me fs

[dry cloak]

nah

fists

fists are what we need

and ogryn tree needs a rework

same as zealot

[upper crest]

does the bleed damage on shredder count for long bomb?

[dry cloak]

you just need to kills

[upper crest]

got it

[somber axle]

man I just went to count Vet weapons vs Ogryn weapons

[dry cloak]

and trash is dead near the epicenter

[somber axle]

we have 58 different weapons

they have 26

Ogryn needs more weapons

[tacit sonnet]

ogryn need a talent tree rework more than anything

[dry cloak]

you just counted shared ones?

[dry cloak]

yup

thats a piority

[somber axle]

I just went to the total list of all weapons then separated by class and counted it up

[tacit sonnet]

Right now ogryn has 2,5 builds. Heavy attacks with charge, heavy attacks with taunt and gun

That's it

There's literally nothing else

[dry cloak]

yup

its still better than 1.5 build zealot has

[tacit sonnet]

That's not true

zealot has a lot of builds

[somber axle]

Vet has access to 58 different weapons and Ogryn at 26 if we count variants

[tacit sonnet]

Like, until death and fotf

or until death and chorus

or until death and...

uhhhhh

[polar quiver]

or until death and thunder hammer shroudfield thing

[tacit sonnet]

yea

exactly

That's already more than ogryn

[polar quiver]

until death is just really good

[tacit sonnet]

Ogryn has less builds than there are talent trees

[upper crest]

wait so does this mean bleed counts

[dry cloak]

give us this

[polar quiver]

surely theres some talents u always take on any class

[tacit sonnet]

There are 3 whole trees of talents and that's not enough for even 3 builds

[dry cloak]

no i mean what ever stands near the center of explosion will die

[tacit sonnet]

absolutely

psyker and zealot probably have the most must take talents

[polar quiver]

im a zealot apologist tho so take what i say with a grain of salt

[dry cloak]

also why cant they give ogryn jsut fuck of big revolver

[tacit sonnet]

too complicated

[dry cloak]

ogryns are smarter than they look

and worst of all

[tacit sonnet]

Other guns are just aim and shoot. And even aiming is not required sometimes

[dry cloak]

james workhop must agree

[broken spade]

probably true but psyker sees a lot more build variety than zealot does

like okay, 3 of the staves have the exact same builds

but 1 of them is different!

and there's gunspsyker

[dry cloak]

sword psyker

shield

[tacit sonnet]

I have like 13 builds on psyker

[dry cloak]

i have 3

[tacit sonnet]

At least half of those must be somewhat unique

[dry cloak]

shriek, shield, SC

[tacit sonnet]

I have like 5 different SC builds

[dry cloak]

i have one just for the big sword

[broken spade]

okay but are they all nearly the same but with 2 points moved and a different weapon?

that being said, way more variety than zealot ever sees

[tacit sonnet]

Columnus
more melee focused
smite
surge staff
assail
some gun other than columnus

[tacit sonnet]

kinda but not really?

They all utilize almost exclusively the right/middle side of the tree

[broken spade]

I think I have like 8 psyker builds

probably the same amount of zealot builds, but like half the zealot builds are like literally the same tree

and the ones that aren't are just a different ability or keystone

I get to make 2 decisions when planning my tree

huge

[tacit sonnet]

I still don't understand the difference between zealot keystones

All zealot keystones are damage, damage or damage

[dry cloak]

i have whole 3 zealot builds. charge with blazing piety. chorus marty build. and ranged zealot

[polar quiver]

piety for suicidal

martyrdom too

ij for thunder hammer

[austere mica]

Crits, straight damage, and damage+atk speed and dodge buffs

IJ is the only keystone that works for everything

[tacit sonnet]

Crits that give damage
Damage and attack speed (attack speed is still just more damage)
Dodge buffs (that give damage)

[austere mica]

Vet is just damage damage and damage

[tacit sonnet]

True

But at least it's different damage

Left keystone I just never use

[austere mica]

Wow hipocracy

I didn’t even have to call it out

[tacit sonnet]

focus target is damage, and right is damage but for melee

[tacit sonnet]

Impossible

https://tenor.com/view/mustafa-necohaus-kitty-cat-warhammer-40k-gif-11500918880958315641

If you think about it, every single keystone in this game is just damage except feel no pain

And feel no pain is a very bad keystone

questions?

[austere mica]

BLO doesn’t give damage

[dire olive]

Well, sometimes it's damage + other thing

[tacit sonnet]

it's more crits, which is damage

[austere mica]

As a subnode

On the class with the worst finesse across the board

[tacit sonnet]

It also gives you a chance to not consume bullets, still more damage

It's all damage

[austere mica]

If conserving ammo is damage every single node in every tree is damage

[steep grail]

yes

you're opening your eyes

[austere mica]

No actually, I’m closing them because it’s 3am

[dire olive]

Unfortunate timezone

[thin stone]

can someone pass a veteran tree for havoc 40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKh9Y56BSG4

Is this a good one?

[ocean shell]

Yep

[edgy sluice]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9db4cddb-376d-415d-9166-efad4249e1f5/havok-40-handyman?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

My option

I see people using a laser pistol more often. So mb it is really better

[polar quiver]

(not havoc related) the recon lasgun feels kind of like it does, zero damage?

might just be too used to my ranged weapon hitting like a cannon tho

[edgy sluice]

Slow damage to unarmored, but big enough with crits and infernus

Bad damage to carapace big guys

[polar quiver]

makes sense

i was using weird auto generated blessings and basically only got to shoot at crushers and monstrosities

[edgy sluice]

You can try revolver

Very fun to play

[polar quiver]

yeah usually ive been using plasma gun, a bolt weapon or revolver

[edgy sluice]

Plasma is OP but not fun for me

[polar quiver]

those just hit harder , makes sense with the recon lasgun having like, 200 ammo and shooting so fast

[polar quiver]

oh really, im not up to date on meta

i just heard dueling sword is crazy and psyker inferno staff

[edgy sluice]

Yep it is

Dueling sword kills crusher with 2 strong attacks

And has staggering alt-attack that can stun ragers, crushers, mutants

[polar quiver]

yeah dueling sword kinda shreds everything

[dry cloak]

yes its meta

but meta is not always fun

[polar quiver]

and horde clear is manageable even if the lights are not supposed to be good for it

[dry cloak]

it can be yes

[polar quiver]

you fly around anyway

[dry cloak]

i use dueling sword on psyker

where is should have stayed

[polar quiver]

just lucky that the fun weapons (plasma gun) are meta i guess

[polar quiver]

i thought it was a new weapon

[dry cloak]

shotguns are fun

[polar quiver]

i didnt play psyker when i played first time around like 1.5 years ago

[dry cloak]

until september bueling sword was psyker exclusive

heavy sword was zealot exclusive

[polar quiver]

heavy sword feels so smooth

its like you are dicing an onion sometimes

[dry cloak]

its trash agains armor

but it shreds horde

i have martyrdom heavy sword build on zealot

and it good

remember

you dont need to play aurics or havoc to have fun

just make builds that are fun for you

[polar quiver]

i rlly like the greatsword thunderhammer and eviscerator on zealot

biiiig weapons

[dry cloak]

yes

thammers are nice but require thinking

[polar quiver]

thunderhammer is pure euphoria when u bonk a monstrosity for big hp chunk

[dry cloak]

yup

[finite hawk]

"thinking"? Wut dat?

[polar quiver]

me no think me see big enemy me press shroudfild me go bonk

give eat orange me eat orange orange give eat orange give me eat orange

[dry cloak]

so do i with charge

im talking about horde clear with hammer

its not particularly great

[polar quiver]

u just swing heavies kinda like bardin 2h hammer in vermintide

[dry cloak]

yep

[polar quiver]

even if it doesnt kill stuff it still gigastaggers everything

[dry cloak]

yes

[steep grail]

what mk are you using

[polar quiver]

XII

[manic echo]

XII is the shittiest

use MK6 or 14

XII is just shoot fastest and also consume alot of ammo too I think

VIc abit slower fire rate than XII but way more dmg and the most ammo efficient

then there 14 that it do like 141 dmg per shot

[steep grail]

xii is the most popular for some reason

[manic echo]

14 literally kill maniac flak armor in like 6-7 shot

assume headshot

xd

[steep grail]

yeah 14 does very good damage

i believe it's the best of the recons at specialist killing

[manic echo]

and you have like 108 max capacity with over a thousand ammo in reserve

when you fire the thing it consume 2 ammo per shot but not like it's big dea

when you have talent that make lasgun consume no ammo when crit for a second

there also plasma pistol

but I kinda hate it

but that just me

[hallow drift]

How do you break this in someone?

Best mate dying in high diff only fills my ears with, “I just hate that Fartshart removed the way I like to play the game” and no way to say “Brother, learn to swing your shovel”

[tough tiger]

Cave his skull in with a shovel 🥺

[broken spade]

tell him "skill issue"

surely it will help

[swift river]

Trying to complete the Infiltrate suppression and Smoke Grenade penances, how's this build look?

[dry cloak]

good

[edgy sluice]

Faster stacking infernus?

[steep grail]

no WAY that's it

more than likely its probably just because the idea of "haha lmg lasgun" is funny and most people dont care about optimization

[sand carbon]

Does the plasma gun have a dump stat? Reading a lot of old and conflicting info online about charge rate being dump stat, or sometimes 71 charge rate being optimal. Is there a definite consensus on this these days?
Edit: Nvm just saw the pins, mb

[edgy sluice]

I chose with this idea. More firerate - faster stacking crit chance with hh, faster stacking infernus

[ocean shell]

Which gun is that?

[edgy sluice]

Recon lasgun 12

[ocean shell]

I see

[swift river]

I still use the VIc

[ocean shell]

I only use the recon lasguns on my psyker

On my vet I prefer the infantry lasgun, bolt pistol, or plasma gun

[edgy sluice]

And in havok there are lot of yellow booger-driped enemies, I think they take less damage from a shot, but normal from infernus, but I may not be right

[thin stone]

Is the right tree aura very bad?

[swift river]

It's not bad, just not as useful. It's just 5% movement speed

When compared to extra Damage or extra Ammo, I'd rather take either of those

[edgy sluice]

Both look weak i think

[thin stone]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9db4cddb-376d-415d-9166-efad4249e1f5/havok-40-handyman?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

Can you explain why you chose this build

@edgy sluice

I built the top of the tree same as urs

just bottom is different

here take a look

[edgy sluice]

Ok, few mins

[thin stone]

rest top of the tree is same as urs

[edgy sluice]

i took bring it down for more boss and reaper dmg, keystones too

[thin stone]

Oh

[edgy sluice]

it does a lot of damage to bosses especially if you hit weakpoints and uses stimms i think

[thin stone]

I see

Have you done Havoc 40 with this build?

[edgy sluice]

yep

[thin stone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKh9Y56BSG4&t=407s

I will try this build for now

thanks for your help

[edgy sluice]

looks similar, but with a more melee focus

and i think toughness is not usefull on high havok

1. Most of the time you are in gold toughness mode
2. Due to the fact that the max toughness decreases with each level 17 percent in numerical size mean less and less
3. if you mess up you'll still die immediately

[scenic ginkgo]

What's the dump stat on plasma gun?

[thin stone]

none

check the pinned guide @scenic ginkgo

[scenic ginkgo]

That looks incredibly confusing, are you able to just give me some basic advice regarding optimal stat spread?

[thin stone]

...

sure

thermal resist and charge rate should be 70

rest all 80

there you go

or 69% thermal resist and 71% charge rate also works

[grand perch]

@tired egret

[bitter turtle]

Headhunter is pretty low value

I think it pans out to be about 3-5% crit

Dumdum is the better choice in most cases

[edgy sluice]

more crits - less ammo waste

[bitter turtle]

Doing more damage so you need to shoot less also wastes less ammo

[ocean shell]

I have Point Blank and Surgical on my Zarona Stub Revolver, is that bad?

[bitter turtle]

Don't need point blank

Swap to handcannon

[ocean shell]

Gotcha

What’s that one do again?

[bitter turtle]

Armor piercing on a crit

If i had to describe it in a simplistic way

[edgy sluice]

Maybe, I don't know it for sure. My idea is like: if you crited, you waste no ammo, if you not crited - you stack hh and next shot have more chances to crit and it stacks 5 times.

[bitter turtle]

I know how hh works

I'm just letting you know that ppl have realized it does less than you'd think

I can say anecdotally

[odd sparrow]

Also crits on recon barely do anything and dumdum is just so much more dmg

[bitter turtle]

After dropping it the difference is nearly indistinguishable

In terms of how often I'm critting

[swift river]

Ugh...
Penance - 748 out of 750

Just two enemies. Two effin enemies short 😄

[gilded elbow]

does Infiltrate's suppresion work? haven't noticed any enemy being suppressed

[bitter turtle]

Yes

[fiery ledge]

Anyone know if the 90% ammo challenge is bugged?

[bitter turtle]

But it's more like a rather short stagger

[fiery ledge]

Its not giving it to me

[stuck gorge]

Did you have 0 ammo by the end?

[fiery ledge]

Yup

I fan hammered all my ammo into elites

[stuck gorge]

You probably missed too many shots then

[fiery ledge]

How on earth do i miss point blanking it🤣🤣

[swift river]

Man, those penances sucked

Not to complete them, I just hate that playstyle

I like VoC and Shredders, dangit

[wind grotto]

hitting bulwark shields counts as a miss

iirc

[ocean shell]

Oh gotcha, thanks

[fiery ledge]

No fucking way

[terse idol]

ahh ee oo

No

At least imo it's important enough to include on every recon

And what of crits AND dumdum

[fiery ledge]

Please tell me youe joking🤣

[wind grotto]

unless they changed it thats how it used to work

[weak parcel]

what's the best lasgun

regular ass infantry lasgun. I know they're all shit but yknow

I wanna try to make a lasgun build work but idfk

[dry cloak]

on infatry las is the green one

and if youre after working one look into recons and helbores

[weak parcel]

idk what ur saying tbh but I'm asking what the best mark of infantry lasgun is

[dry cloak]

green one

[weak parcel]

oh they have different colours lol

ok makes sense I thought you meant rarity

[dry cloak]

there is a blue one that fires fast

green one which is good

and tan one

its mark 7

[hollow ibex]

Mk 2

But would recommend the full auto mod

[weak parcel]

im tryina farm marksman focus with an OG vet build with the highlight shit

[dry cloak]

bolter

is your friend here

[weak parcel]

how, it has no ammo capacity, and its not any easier to headshot with than a lasgun

[dry cloak]

then bolt pistol

and if you insist on l;asgun is the green one

[crimson pebble]

las pistol better then las rifle

[dry cloak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdyU_gW6WE&list=RDGMEMQ1dJ7wXfLlqCjwV0xfSNbA&index=15 wtf is this

[crimson pebble]

for the penance right

[weak parcel]

ye

[crimson pebble]

the easiest way to do it is get the add on node that builds stacks while standing still get to max stacks then just crouch walk around while meleeing

@weak parcel

[umbral parrot]

I always get happy when ever i see a Smoke/Stealth Vet

It's like... a competition on who's better.

[hardy gale]

I play that song from my proton pack during parades because I'm a fuckin nerd

[weak parcel]

thanks

[dire olive]

Nah extra stacks is better because it gives you leeway

I used laspistol because you can pop heads all the time, on the move, without ads

Ammo efficient

Build stacks then stand still and melee

And if you lose 1-2 stacks moving it's fine because there's extra

[crimson pebble]

use ammo or not have to use ammo all im saying

[terse idol]

Yes it's a miss

Cause you're not hitting technicaaalllyy

[terse idol]

Wait wait roll it back though

For the penance I mean suuure

I'd definetly just go crab vet and that would probably be enough

Not that the penance is particularly hard

The tedium

[crimson pebble]

i mean i got it in less then 5 games crab walk melee

[terse idol]

Yee

And what better way to upkeep the MF stacks than just to crouch everywhere

[dire olive]

Maybe unpopular opinion but crouching everywhere is horridly unfun

[terse idol]

Yeah

Like if you're brute forcing the MF penance

Yes you're gonna suffer

Doing it normally just takes abit longer

me as I do the mf penance regularly with a ilas7 build

[sleek garden]

I also play this way

Nobody will appreciate this build until they go into havoc

[grand perch]

ive tried my ilas mf build and it turns quite unfun over havoc ~25

[pseudo fiber]

Yippee

[warm bolt]

Yoo nice drip

[pseudo fiber]

the whole set is so nice

[torn acorn]

which of the shotguns would you guys recommend?

ı know the duble barrel is the better of the bunch ı am asking for the other 3

[hollow ibex]

slug shot is the least worst

[torn acorn]

that is such a sad way to describe it

yet it is true

[ebon prism]

this is so good.

[vapid nacelle]

had a really good match that ended because someone didn't free me from a net :(

[tall torrent]

I don’t run sniper resist for havoc

[orchid hemlock]

not havoc

[tall torrent]

For base game it gives a good “insurance” defense breakpoint

[orchid hemlock]

oh speaking of which, for ogryn are there any breakpoints for snipers/bursters? 🤔

[tall torrent]

Not rly relevant

[orchid hemlock]

I know 200 hp is the breakpoint for other classes, but is there anything else after that?

[tall torrent]

Ogryn has innate DR

[orchid hemlock]

is sniper resist on Ogryn changes any breakpoints at certain HP?

[tall torrent]

20% base DR
Then u can get usually 20% more TDR from tree (stacks additively with base DR)
So it’s 20% health DR and 40% TDR usually

I don’t think building for defense breakpoints particularly matter for havoc

[soft trellis]

Question: what blessings do you want on the plasma gun?

[tall torrent]

You’re gonna be squishy no matter what

[soft trellis]

I was reading the guide thing and I couldn't really tell what blessings you wanted(I don't remember perks either x.x)

[orchid hemlock]

no dont worry about havoc, I'm just asking if I should get 3 or 2 gunner resit with 1 sniper resist on Ogryn

[tall torrent]

Did u get 3x 5% toughness

[orchid hemlock]

yes

[tall torrent]

Then it’s kinda up to u imo

[orchid hemlock]

3 toughness and toughnes regen

[vapid nacelle]

With no investment Ogryn already withstands 3 sniper shots from full (300) HP

[tall torrent]

I will also say

If u play smth like shield

[orchid hemlock]

yes but is there any breakpoints if you get 20%

[soft trellis]

What's that guide called?

[tall torrent]

Block efficiency might not be entirely horrible (?)

[tall torrent]

My steam guide (work in progress)

[vapid nacelle]

by itself no

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982229685675102228/1275433773647007846/IMG_6351.gif

[orchid hemlock]

gimmie the nuggies

[vapid nacelle]

1 perk doesn't change anything unless you have HP investment

[orchid hemlock]

so with regular heavy hitter build I get 363 HP

[tall torrent]

If u want to do basic maths
Sniper shot 122.5
Base ogryn health DR is 20% (x80%)
That already reduces sniper shot damage to 98
Ogryn base is 300 health so he can survive 3 shots and not go down

So you don’t actually gain much from sniper resist

Ogryn’s problem is more “how do I get into melee range before getting fucked up”

[vapid nacelle]

with 1 resist, from 363, you'd be able to take 4 sniper shots before going down
with 2 resists, 5
with 3 resists, 7
of course you have to remember that you're still playing Ogryn, so the odds that you're going to be in "pristine" condition when taking these shots is obviously pretty low

[pastel yew]

who out here getting hit by 4-7 sniper shots

perhaps theres a point where death is a learning moment and should be accepted

[vapid nacelle]

now alternatively

if you want to commit to this massive investment

with near max possible toughness from curios, curio perks, talent tree perks, 3x sniper resistance and feel no pain, Ogryn can toughness tank a sniper shot outright with no external support

[tall torrent]

@orchid hemlock fyi block efficiency reduces stamina cost for blocking gunshots with shield

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[orchid hemlock]

the only reason I dont take 3 gunner resist is because the diminishing returns

isn't it actually like 51%?

[vapid nacelle]

48.8

[orchid hemlock]

but it might be more useful on ogryn

[pastel yew]

it'd be kinda goofy if it wasnt to be fair

[tall torrent]

0.8^3

[vapid nacelle]

I don't remember what perks I'm even running on my Ogryn

I think I have a singular bomber resist

and that's it

[orchid hemlock]

rn I have 3 toughness/3 TR on my perks, but I am still not sure what to take for the last 3

[pastel yew]

does bomber resist apply to tox/flame bombers too?

or just the floppies

[vapid nacelle]

yes

[pastel yew]

neat

[vapid nacelle]

it does not apply to the poxbursters

[pastel yew]

I had it completely backwards then

[vapid nacelle]

unless they recently changed that

you know what does apply to poxbursters?

[pastel yew]

I tend not to run resistance nodes... my ordo dockets taking up too much space

[vapid nacelle]

Heavyweight.. if you kill the burster

you know, the perk that reduces damage from Ogryns by 30%

[primal zealot]

Wat

[pastel yew]

I didnt know was about to ask what that was

[primal zealot]

Rly ?

[pastel yew]

so what you're saying is...

meleeing poxbursters is optimal

[vapid nacelle]

well you're marked as an Ogryn, so if you kill the burster, the game registers the damage dealt as your own, and therefore damage from an Ogryn, and therefore reduces it

[primal zealot]

I just assumed I tanked them after a point blank kickback shot cus im so thicccccc

Lmao peak spaghetti code

[vapid nacelle]

the application of that should be near nonexistent, but y'know.. in case you're like stuck in an inescapable burster wave or something, just punch them I guess 💀

[pastel yew]

does this apply to all forms of self damage then like barrels etc?

[vapid nacelle]

Haven't tried it

[orchid hemlock]

IG I should just take 3 gunner resist since I'm soo choker 😔

[pastel yew]

hmm

[vapid nacelle]

I just know it applise to bursters

but bomber resistance doesn't

I love this game !!!

[pastel yew]

its a little rough around the edges... but the general idea is there

I do wish the pace of updates was faster though so stuff like this could be adjusted

like this is harmless fun but

there are other issues that are not so harmless that'd be nice to fix

[vapid nacelle]

I mean

In a way I think the lack of poxburster resistance is a good thing for those getting into the game

[soft trellis]

idk if I'm just stupid, or something, but I can't find it lol

[tall torrent]

Because it’s work in progress…

[pastel yew]

those are the people that'd need it most though while learning?

[soft trellis]

Oh

lol

[pastel yew]

I feel like most of the time bursters pose 0 threat outside of your team exploding them on you

[primal zealot]

Hey vet chat how do I get the long bomb penance ?

[vapid nacelle]

You're right, but also the amount of punishment is why I think the lack of it is a good thing

[pastel yew]

big room, throw bombn

[vapid nacelle]

resistance may encourage people to not be as inclined to push them away

and y'know

[soft trellis]

So just use the pinned message then? <.< @tall torrent

[vapid nacelle]

that's an aoe burst

[pastel yew]

I can see your logic

[tall torrent]

Yea

[leaden skiff]

Helbore dump stat is Stability? Or?

[vapid nacelle]

so while they might take it well

[tall torrent]

But like

[vapid nacelle]

what about the rest of the team they're subjecting that burst to?

[tall torrent]

I JUST SENT YOU A VIDEO

[leaden skiff]

You get no appreciation dude ❤️

[pastel yew]

I dont think anyone can train pubs not to explode bursters on the teme

team

at this point I'm convinced its intentional

[vapid nacelle]

I still get occasional auric pubs that do it

[pastel yew]

for real

it makes me so paranoid in any group fight if it approaches from their direction

[vapid nacelle]

I want to look into havoc but I'm lazy

[pastel yew]

because I know theres a 40% chance they just are not going to shove it

[soft trellis]

Ah, I found what I missed in it x.x

[pastel yew]

tbf though a lot of people at least claim to get frequent audio issues around them

I've never really had this issue outside of certain areas of certain maps very rarely

[soft trellis]

We were getting audio issues before one of the more recent updates

[vapid nacelle]

this is why I use cackling trapper

[pastel yew]

that bridge in throne side? seems to have some weird audio blind spot on it

[vapid nacelle]

supposedly trappers are actually pretty audible by default for some people

[tall torrent]

Just watch the video it’s significantly more detailed with better explanation

[pastel yew]

they've been reported like, as long as the game has been out

[pastel yew]

your trappers dont crackle by default?????????

0.0

its quiet but

definitely there

you can hear their net gun and their steppies

[vapid nacelle]

I mean they do

the issue is when they appear with no audio :)

[pastel yew]

mmh

[vapid nacelle]

because that's just how this game is

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I've been really lucky

I don't ever really get such bugs

so I'm not sure if its hardware based or

some people just cursed

there are definitely issues with the maps though

but not enough I'd say its the main culprit given how commonly reported the issue is

I'm sure it'll be fixed any day now

🙂

[hearty panther]

every time a silent X gets posted with a clip, i can hear it

[pastel yew]

stuff like this makes it hard to gauge the issue and easy to write off, but I've definitely seen enough clips where you can't hear it

a lot of people are just coping though

[hearty panther]

but the clip often has the player running their own music in the background and/or a twitch stream so theyre tripling their audio channels and increasing the chance of problems or missing it

there are so few actual silent spawns in the game and all of them relate to specific sound gate locations that are bugged or misflagged

which means its still learnable and avoidable

[pastel yew]

this would be my experience

but to be fair you wont always encounter them early

I must have run loads of missions in throne side

and it was literally only yesterday I found one

after you pass over the bridge, on the variant in which its already dropped

I turned around to get ammo just in time to see a burster ready to flop

[hearty panther]

yes

thats a fresh one

if you dont pass the barricades just before the portal into the courtyard

you cant hear bursters coming from the courtyard

and specifically only bursters

[pastel yew]

the only other one I can think of is the carnival

didnt happen to me but saw a clip of it

[hearty panther]

there's two in baross

[pastel yew]

entering that big open area before the lock door, with the health station

[hearty panther]

and they happen because of the area has multiple configurations for other maps

[soft trellis]

There, I snipped the stuff I will have trouble remembering as well.

[hearty panther]

so there are walls present that arent properly coded for sound, or vice-versa

[soft trellis]

ty

[pastel yew]

this sounds like.. not that hard of a fix?

[hearty panther]

correct

[pastel yew]

also just the barest amount of testing

[hearty panther]

i know i reported it like

when sycorax came out

[pastel yew]

christ

[hearty panther]

and it was fixed until another patch came out and busted it again

but people dont report this shit, they just bitch on discord or download a mod

wait no, commsplex

not sycorax

eitherw ay

as said, most people complaining about silent X's are just coping

there's like three or four sound triggers for most enemies to begin with

[soft trellis]

For my melee build... it's not too difficult to path for the plasma gun... all I need is the 2nd 5% node as far as a change to what I had goes lol

[hearty panther]

even just the spawns being silent doesnt mean you had zero chance to react

[pastel yew]

mega seconding this

[hearty panther]

a trapper has a spawn sound, a voiceline, a player voice line, a running around sound, a firing sound, and a running away sound

if you missed all of that

you just fucking suck

[pastel yew]

voice lines dont always trigger do they?

[hearty panther]

almost always

it only gets fuzzy when ten specials spawn

since they cant say all of them at once

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean most of the time I hear them by their just random running about sound

[soft trellis]

Also I guess always prepared wouldn't be quite as useful for the plasma gun... so I can keep the build I had, minus that, if I want the plasma on it. :/

[pastel yew]

if I hear a net just dodge anyway

I've had some issues with buggy snipers recently

[hearty panther]

even if i think i got fucked by a silent something or other

[pastel yew]

where they're staring at the room

[hearty panther]

i recheck my clip and, nope, not silent at all

[pastel yew]

so you look at them wondering wtf

and get instant shot

[hearty panther]

i was just too focused on a hound, or a mutie, or whatever

[pastel yew]

never trust dopey snipers

the hounds and mutants are so fucking loud

mutant got mad vocal chords

[hearty panther]

yea on mutant waves especially my brain starts to tune them out

and thats still my fault lmao

you'd be hard pressed to call them silent thats for sure

and the game still has to balance audio channels and prioritize

[pastel yew]

at least these bugged audio gates are not super common

[hearty panther]

you might hear a mutant clear as day coming from the separate room

[pastel yew]

or the if they are, its not common something bad comes through them

[hearty panther]

but you wont hear the one right beside you as clearly

because the one beside you is targetting a different player

so it drops priority

but it is never silent

[pastel yew]

I was wondering that actually

mutant targetting also just seems

really funky

they get mega tunnel vision

[hearty panther]

better than it used to be

[pastel yew]

bring back old dogs..

[hearty panther]

at least they actually stop now when their original target gets disabled by something else

[pastel yew]

I miss seeing them literally flying up through the floors

[hearty panther]

they used to just INSTANTLY fucking pivot on a dime

like they would 180 on the spot still sprinting

[pastel yew]

I dont remember that

[hearty panther]

so two mutants chase a dude, one gets him first, the other one just insta-snaps to you

was hilarious but also not at the same time

[pastel yew]

buthonestly I dont remember much outside of the goofy shit from early days

[hearty panther]

i miss when nurgle blessed mutants would pound you to FUCKING DEATH

they wouldnt throw you

[pastel yew]

what is the trigger for them actually bashing you

is it random chance or

[hearty panther]

space

broadly speaking

it only gets funky when there are doorways or walls that can be open or arent present in other map configs

so like, baross

[pastel yew]

I know people would hate it

[hearty panther]

that first open plaza for the bridge map

[pastel yew]

but man

I'd love it if mutants could actually toss you out of the map

[hearty panther]

there's a wall up that prevents the way to what is commsplex

[soft trellis]

@tall torrent So: how does this look for the plasma gun, as far as the talent tree goes? Just wanted to double check with you since you seemed to know more >.>

[hearty panther]

if a mutie picks you up and walks you into that wall

he'll pound you

because it doesnt register as a wall in that way for the AI

same for spawn doors and shit

[leaden skiff]

They can and have, I have insta-capped due to a Mutie tossing me over an edge

[hearty panther]

and yea muties used to ledge you way more

[pastel yew]

I've never seen it happen

not once

[hearty panther]

now they do their absolute best to not

[pastel yew]

I assume it was hard coded to only throw you somewhere safe

[hearty panther]

the AI checks to ensure the throw is 'safe'

yea

if it cant you will be 'thrown' but you just fall in place straight down

like right where you are

[leaden skiff]

Oh is this my Old Man talkin? Did they fix that?

[remote sonnet]

Oh, back in year 1, they can throw you off.

[pastel yew]

bring it back

peak comedy

[hearty panther]

nah it wasnt very fun or cute lmao

and they would find the dumbest of ledges

like it makes 'sense' if youre on an open bridge

its less fun when he finds the one fucking gap in the entire map

and threads you through it

[primal zealot]

Now they just throw you directly through walls

[hearty panther]

muties instantly go from "pretty much ignorable" to "you have to kill them immediately"

but you cant properly read that level of threat on the fly

[pastel yew]

this one I've seen but only with bosses

that ones super annoying

at least its rare

I've only really had it happen in super compressed areas

[leaden skiff]

Getting tossed into trapper/flamer combo has been my bane a few times

[primal zealot]

Bro I had it happen with a chaos spawn at the start of Gloriana

[leaden skiff]

What model Helbore are peeps running these days?

[soft trellis]

Just figured out what "redirect fire" was lol

I looked at the left and right keystones extentions, but, not the middle one for some reason xD

[hearty panther]

Redirect Fire holds up that entire keystone

it'd be trash otherwise

[pastel yew]

helps with the plasma gun iirc

[pastel yew]

tbf I think the stamina/toughness generation isnt awful

there arent many ways of generating that much stamina

it's good for bosses ig

[hearty panther]

by itself its just not enough

[pastel yew]

yeah niche but there are definitely times I want it

[hearty panther]

in a continued fight you can basically only guarantee the base stacks

so thats only 8% damage per tag

[soft trellis]

Well for my melee build I can actually do some edits to keep my melee attack speed and get that... the weapons specialist keystone was more cuz I wasn't using a gun that would benefit from the other 2 >.>

[hearty panther]

Redirect Fire essentially brings up the lows and makes the highs higher

[soft trellis]

Looks a bit funky tho lol

[hearty panther]

it makes that entire keystone

[pastel yew]

its been a long time since I was testing plasma gun breakpoints but ping gives you better rager clear

normally I run marksmans focus I think

which is worse

but it means you dont have to spam ping constantly

you just miss out on the ragers

or.. maybe it was only one of the ragers

I cant remember

[soft trellis]

I normally always run weapons specialist. The 1st ranged keystone extention helps with low mag guns like the revolver and db shotgun(since even at 1 stack it gives 1 ammo back each time)

[pastel yew]

weapon specialist is the goat

[soft trellis]

I'll just reload my revolver while killing hordes lol

kill a poxwalker, swap twice, kill another, etc etc lol

[pastel yew]

it sorta eclipses the other two depending on the build

it just takes a lot of melee investment to get there

[soft trellis]

What's kinda funny about the middle keystone benefitting the plasma gun is that the middle keystone is the only other one I was interested in lol

[pastel yew]

I think people miss out on marksmans focus for the same reason as disrupt destiny on psyker

maintaining your stacks is

super easy

if you're fighting you're not going to lose em

[hearty panther]

eh, MF is overlooked for that reason, yes

[pastel yew]

the bonusses just arent that huge a lot of the time

its a decent keystone though

[hearty panther]

but also because like half of its bonuses end up being totally wasted and overkill

[tawny timber]

of that dark tide

[pastel yew]

people just need to stop locking in the dog nodes for it

[hearty panther]

and more easily maintained for breakpoints elsewhere

[pastel yew]

like getting stacks while standing still

[hearty panther]

like i get why most Psykers prefer Warp Charges, it's 24% extra damage and maintained with incredible ease

[pastel yew]

nice for weapons where breakpoints are weird though like automatic weapons

[soft trellis]

I have poor aim... and the right path gives me the 2 things I want the most on veteran: 10% melee attack speed and -0.25s stamina regen delay(now if I didn't want the attack speed, I'd just go left cuz that's 1 point on superiority complex for the stamina regen delay node)

[hearty panther]

but DD is still strictly superior

[pastel yew]

yeah I'd do the same for all psyker weapons except the voidstrike

[tawny timber]

what weapons do you like to use ?

[pastel yew]

dd is mandatory for that keystone really

it gives you everything you need and fixes your break points

mandatory for that weapon even

god

words

[hearty panther]

DD is just dummy stacked

[soft trellis]

This is the extention that really sealed the deal and put the nails in the coffin of that keystone, for me. I know you probably don't ever take it, but, it just makes me want the keystone less since that's one of the extentions lol

[pastel yew]

this modifier is bait

never take it

[soft trellis]

I know it's bait

[hearty panther]

25% damage, 50% crit damage, 62.5% weakspot damage, and 112.5% crit weakspot damage all in one group

[pastel yew]

honestly almost all of the modifiers for it suck yeah

except extra stacks

[hearty panther]

not even including the toughness and movespeed bonus

[soft trellis]

It makes me want the base keystone less, tho, just by existing

[pastel yew]

yeah dd is insane for the weapons that use it

[pastel yew]

pffff

I basically only take it on the plasma gun (to avoid spam pinging) and the recon las (more damage and stacks never fade)

[soft trellis]

I'm a zealot main... melee specializing is something I actively search out >.>

[pastel yew]

tbf vet has some weapons that dont need melee skills to do good in melee

like the power sword for example

and apparently the dueling sword

[soft trellis]

the power sword also has the same dodge distance as the ogryn's shield and the zealot's relic blade... and is kinda slow for the attack speed sometimes <.<

it's op, tho, yeah

[hearty panther]

only the VI is good in my eyes

and like, not really, lmao

[soft trellis]

I've mananged to reach rusher 2 shot breakpoints with both the mk3 and mk6... the mk6 version was much easier tho

[manic echo]

is weapons specialist is just like having another survivalist?

[hearty panther]

theyre great when things are going well and they're really not great when things fall apart

[bitter turtle]

What does it have to do with survivalist?

[manic echo]

since it also give ammo?

[bitter turtle]

You mean the subnode?

It reloads passively

[manic echo]

yeah

I forgot to mention

[bitter turtle]

It doesn't genetate ammo

[soft trellis]

weapons specialist is when you wanna both melee and ranged. And 1 stack always gives 1 ammo back to a gun(even 2 mag or 5 mag capacity ones)... and yeah it doesn't generate ammo

[manic echo]

rip

[bitter turtle]

Thats pretty much the reason i don't really like psword in havoc

[soft trellis]

the full 25% attack speed(with melee specialist up) is really handy <.<

[hearty panther]

oh yea it isnt making you ammo, it takes that ammo from your reserve pool

very different utility

survivalist generates ammo, prepared saves you from reloading

[soft trellis]

Yeah... I was attempting a solo clutch and had a horde and shotgunner on me and was cornered and my gun was empty and my career was on cd(and I was out of nades)... <.<'

[bitter turtle]

It's not really rip, some guns really really benefit hard from that passive reload

[soft trellis]

trying to kill the shotgunner I think is what got me killed lol

[bitter turtle]

You basically never need to spend time on reloads in their cases

[pastel yew]

literally zarona the keystone

[soft trellis]

i.e.: revolver/double barreled shotgun

[manic echo]

yeah well... I only use recon lasgun xD

[bitter turtle]

Well

Recon doesn't really benefit from weapon specialist to begin with

[soft trellis]

Wouldn't it benefit from the crit chance for infernus for like 1 shot? lol

[bitter turtle]

2

Crit strings

[soft trellis]

Hey, 2 shots lol

[bitter turtle]

But yeah. Rather underwhelming

The fire rate boost helps a bit i guess

You can pewpew even faster

[soft trellis]

but those 6 burn stacks from killing 50 poxwalkers with my shovel...

[bitter turtle]

Well, you could still do it anyway

WS' biggest strength is the melee buffs

Moreso than the ranged ones

[soft trellis]

Meanwhile this would guarantee infernus much better... lol

[pastel yew]

this is a giga node for the recons

[soft trellis]

the crit chance helps when you gotta quick scope something with the revolver at least while meleeing a horde

free handcannon proc, no surgical required lol

[bitter turtle]

It's good, but the melee buffs are still the main point of taking it

[manic echo]

[bitter turtle]

You'd still run it even if it didn't give crit for volver tbh

Just because it's such a melee focused playstyle

[pastel yew]

also like reciprocity is right at the top of the tree so you dont gotta dip further

[bitter turtle]

Looks fine enough

It sucks you can't get rending strikes but

It's the price you pay focusing on your melee more

[soft trellis]

Hm, I'll have to try this out with my revolver

[bitter turtle]

Oh wait

[manic echo]

probly should go back on using recon focus build

[bitter turtle]

Don't get exploit weakness

That thing is dogshit

Grab 25 toughness instead

The node between trench fighter and desperado on the right tree

[pastel yew]

AAAAAAAAAAA

gross

the new ogryn stubbers have the same aim bug as the bolters

[soft trellis]

The only thing, slightly amusing, that rending strikes does is it gives the mk 6 and 9 heavy swords more damage on the heavy 1 than on the special(by like 10-30 damage lol)

[bitter turtle]

Rending strikes value is solely based on ADMs

[soft trellis]

to crushers I mean

[manic echo]

ADMs?

[bitter turtle]

And Recon has pretty meh ADMs

[soft trellis]

armor damage modifiers

[soft trellis]

Wouldn't onslaught be better overall, tho?

[pastel yew]

onslaught is bait

[bitter turtle]

Onslaught is a meme

You have to path out of the way to get it

[soft trellis]

Yeah... it lets me kill crushers in like 60% of a mag with a brauto

[orchid hemlock]

Onslaught is only good on the VII recon tbh

[bitter turtle]

It effectively costs 3 or 4 points

[pastel yew]

60% of a mag is not worth it

[bitter turtle]

It's bait even on a recon

[pastel yew]

you waste ammo to apply it

[bitter turtle]

The reddit build

[pastel yew]

and its only against that one target

[soft trellis]

most of the time I take the -0.25s stamina regen delay on the right side... >.>'

[pastel yew]

you waste so much ammo getting the effect to a reasonable level when you can just use your melee 100% easier

[scenic ginkgo]

What bug?

[orchid hemlock]

I'm saying that if you need to take it, the only gun in the game I would out it on is VII

[pastel yew]

jittery aim resetting

causes your screen to jolt

[scenic ginkgo]

Bruh

[soft trellis]

didn't mean to repost that lol

[bitter turtle]

You can take stam delay for no point sacrifice on the left side

[bitter turtle]

Fair enough then yes

[pastel yew]

dont worry, it'll be fixed soon. it's only been a known bug for 2 years

[bitter turtle]

Unless you mean you take both stam delay nodes on every build

[manic echo]

I will just go back to using this one ig

[soft trellis]

Yeah... I just was running close quarters killzone before... I'm trying out the better pathing this time with the regen delay node on the left <.<

[bitter turtle]

Then you're definitely making a sacrifice somewhere else

[manic echo]

that one is just testing

[bitter turtle]

This one is not bad or anything besides exploit

The one you just posted is just more focused on ranged combat

The one you are testing gives up some of that to make your melee better

[soft trellis]

I mean... I'm not getting bring it down for my revolver... that's about it. I've never relied on demolition team before, so it isn't a sacrifice imo

[bitter turtle]

It's just a choice is all

[soft trellis]

I'm gonna be trying this out, in my next run

[bitter turtle]

Yeah because the tree you posted isn't sacrificing 3 points to get onslaught is what I'm saying

[soft trellis]

True

[bitter turtle]

Remember the conversation was about how onslaught is not worth

[soft trellis]

It isn't worth it, even on the build I had before x.x

[bitter turtle]

Even if you ditch the 25 toughness to grab cqkz

[soft trellis]

when it was a 1 point tax

[bitter turtle]

And then switch the stam delay to the right side

Where is the last point going to come from

To get onslaught itself? Etc

[soft trellis]

I was joking more on saying take onslaught >.<'

[bitter turtle]

O ok

I mean i was just answering you about why onslaught is not really worth it

[soft trellis]

Oh yeah, it's just a meme

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

About this

[soft trellis]

Rending strikes is only a 1 point tax with a good right tree set up as opposed to a 3

[bitter turtle]

Yea

[soft trellis]

I'm getting it now

[bitter turtle]

Like if onslaught was somewhere more convenient

Yeah it would be great on automatics

But it's just so out of the way

[pastel yew]

honestly even that I dont really agree on

its so slow and ammo intenseive

maybe on the recons since they dont burn through ammo

[manic echo]

MK XII weirdly popular on darktide gameslantern website

[bitter turtle]

Like I said

The reddit build

[soft trellis]

The only time it wasn't was when I was not really thinking and taking this one lol... and then I'd have to sacrifice something good for it

[vapid nacelle]

what weapons are you using with this

[manic echo]

feel like I can't trust that website anymore

[orchid hemlock]

Onslaught is good into 2 enemies:

Crushers and Bosses

Everything else, you get more value in other portions of the tree

[vapid nacelle]

sorry I just tuned into the convo

[soft trellis]

Shovel/Heavy Sword + Revolver

[pastel yew]

tbf you can already get one in the bottom left easily

and that puts you at zealot regen delay