veteran-class

[soft trellis]

I did notice, tho, with the 10% rending node from vet's tree the heavy 1 on the mk6 and mk9 heavy swords does more damage than the special, then. Otherwise the special attack does more damage <.<

like... 10-30 more damage :/

[long bloom]

It works now. ty ! 🙂

[pastel yew]

no problem, I'm glad

[soft trellis]

Oh and if you have to deal with crushers for the mk6 and mk9 heavy swords you do heavy 1, special attack, then rinse and repeat that combo... x.x

[pastel yew]

yea I've used the hs a lot on zealot but not so much on vet yet

I feel the move speed could be rough

[soft trellis]

I mean... compared to the power sword the move speed is probably pretty good lol

[pastel yew]

think generally you just wanna detonate em with your ranged weapon

[soft trellis]

power sword has the same dodge distance(idk about sprint) as the ogryn's shield and the zealot's relic blade(-20% to -10%)... the heavy sword has -5% to +5% for the dodge distance lol

[soft trellis]

Depends on the character. On my Oggy and Zealot I use my melee. On Psyker or Vet? Unless I have one of the newer foldable shovels I'm probably not gonna melee the crusher groups <.<

idk about psyker...

[tall torrent]

no

power sword is -14% ~ -12%

however this does not scale from the same dodge distance as ogryn's base dodge distance

veteran, zealot and psyker have 2.5m base dodge distance

ogryn has 3m

[dim niche]

how do you beat the silent ragers

they sneak up on you

[tall torrent]

block with melee weapon first

it depends

it's usually hard to get snuck up by ragers

[pastel yew]

you look around

[dim niche]

i used that new zealot sword

[pastel yew]

using your ranged weapon when you have the heavy sword I mean

[dim niche]

i blocked and countered and it didnt stop them

[pastel yew]

since it does 0 armor damage

[pastel yew]

dont block a rager

outrange them

if you have to block things have already gone quite wrong

they have large gaps between their attacks in which you can hit them

or your weapons push attack might deal with them I'm not sure on the heavy sord

sword

90% of the time I just shoot them though, you got the bullets why bother fighting them where they're strongest usually

[wicked epoch]

what are good blessings for the chainsword?

[dim niche]

pray that it works

[stable shoal]

What should I be running on bistol?

Blessings

[tall torrent]

block initial strikes, dodge, use energized heavy sweep

[pastel yew]

what keystone are you running

[stable shoal]

VoC

[tall torrent]

lethal proximity + puncture

[pastel yew]

keystone, the one at the end of the tree ;p

[stable shoal]

Weapon specialist sorry I’m psn

[pastel yew]

ahhhh

if you're on controller probably lethal prox + puncture

[tall torrent]

nah it's basically just lethal prox + puncture, period

[pastel yew]

I do think surgical is still pretty baller if you're using it primarily but theres not much point if you're runng weapon spec

[tall torrent]

surgical not even as good as point blank for WS build

[stable shoal]

So what should I be using 😭

[pastel yew]

thats what I said no? no point in surgical for ws

lethal proximity and puncture

[tall torrent]

I already said above

[pastel yew]

surgical still good if you're using it with deadshot as a primary ranged weapon though

I hate relying on puncture for breakpoints thats

grim

[stable shoal]

Ight what about chainsword

[pastel yew]

https://1drv.ms/w/c/e2a0a519389b2f30/EciPxKdXTJlPiEj2LUHKr58BbN_LckMOC4bba3qnlO8THg

worth checking the guide

[tall torrent]

do u have to use a chainsword

[stable shoal]

I need my chainsword, I know it’s kinda mid for auric but I need it in my life

[tall torrent]

must be on veteran?

[stable shoal]

Yes

[pastel yew]

lmao

I mean if you're running chainsword bolt pistol you're going to struggle against crusher hordes

[stable shoal]

I know but I still need it

[pastel yew]

thats fair

at least run kraks or something, you wont have enough but itll mean you have something

[tall torrent]

rampage + shred for Mk IV
wrath + shred for Mk XIIIg

better yet, use them on zealot
they're really one dimensional for veteran

it's almost to the point of if I see a chainsword veteran build I basically just know that build isn't very good lol

[stable shoal]

no

[pastel yew]

no to what

I Cant tell if hadron is

being a bitch

"existence seems so much more agreeable after our discussions"

is that because I'm leavin or because we had a good chat..

[bitter turtle]

Run n gun is also good in auric

[orchid hemlock]

Roleplay Vet

[stable shoal]

I was wondering if it was good

Which perk would I drop ?

[bitter turtle]

On the tree I gave you

I would drop lethal explosion

[wicked epoch]

whats the better one?

[orchid hemlock]

Both are ass

[red patio]

plasma gun dump stat?

i'm seeing a bunch of conflicting information some of which is apparently based on an outdated patch

[orchid hemlock]

plasma doesnt have a dump stat

[red patio]

ah

[red patio]

so i just want damage ammo and stopping power maxed?

[steep grail]

pretty much

[red patio]

kk

thanks

[unreal marsh]

what blessings for stub revolver? i know hand cannon but what else?

[narrow frost]

check the pins, but surgical if you are taking the zarona or for the agrippina you take crusian

[pseudo horizon]

So I'm trying out the Accatran Shotgun (with the incendiary round) and it seems like there's no use for it?

Am I missing something here

[pastel yew]

the incendiary has infinite cleave so you can combo it with like... flechette to apply lots of dots

even without the horde clear isnt terrible

the special ammo also always takes two shots to kill snipers at range (at least for the zealot)

I think that's the only real stuff to keep in mind

that and you should ads while fighting bosses

[fiery raft]

just doing a mkv infantry autogun build, sort of generalist

any thoughts?

[orchid hemlock]

vraks likes crits I dont see any in this build 😔

[fiery raft]

what would i do for that?

nvm

reci

[orchid hemlock]

take reci and des, and the 5% crit node

dont take onslaught pls

onslaught works on recon because of the big clip and shock trooper

but i honestly never liked it on auto guns

[fiery raft]

does vraks not have a big clip too?

[orchid hemlock]

no

[fiery raft]

i feel like 57 is pretty ample

[tall torrent]

no, it's 4.5 cleave (was nerfed)

[orchid hemlock]

its also not worth the 3 points for it

[fiery raft]

i guess it is p expensive

[bitter turtle]

that build is honestly a meme

the bleed + fire

ive tried it quite a few times and its always basically killing with extra steps

i think the worst part is that its very anti synergy with deadshot

[fiery raft]

its only 3 tho

[bitter turtle]

since that tightens the spread

[fiery raft]

not 4

but stille xp

[orchid hemlock]

this is how I would run the vraks, but this is a WS build https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9cd2f33a-0c28-4fe7-afef-3a716810ec24/meta-gamer-tryhard-xxxxfazeclanxxxx-society-build?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[fiery raft]

expwesnive

[bitter turtle]

but you want the crit AND the wide spread

[fiery raft]

ill do ws

[pastel yew]

yeah its not ideal, I've not tested it yet with weapon spec to see what the double application is like yet but I cant imagine thats suddenly better

still, it is something you can do

the shotguns in general are kind of killin with extra steps the weapon anyway

[bitter turtle]

i would say the agri shotgun has legitimate use

[pastel yew]

the fact they have semi decent horde clear built in is like.. fine

is that the slug shotgun?

[bitter turtle]

its basically the ultra stagger gun with perfecet accuracy

yeah

[pastel yew]

yeah but

[bitter turtle]

opening up bulwarks in one shot and 1tapping burster is nice

[pastel yew]

you lose your good boss damage in exchange for it

[bitter turtle]

no you dont

[tall torrent]

accatran is not the boss dps shotgun

[bitter turtle]

agri shotgun has great unyielding multis

like

[tall torrent]

that would be zarona

[bitter turtle]

REALLY good

[pastel yew]

aggripina is whats bein discussed

[bitter turtle]

if you go full meme anti boss you can down a boss in one mag or so

[tall torrent]

it's still better than accatran

[orchid hemlock]

if it was similar to your build I would do that

[pastel yew]

the two other shotguns have okay damage against bosses and ogryns

its just nothing special

I dont remember any of these new names man

cursing fatshark

[bitter turtle]

like this is meme exec + all 3 ability buffs

for slug shotty

[tall torrent]

zarona (lawbringer) and agripinaa have good boss dmg, especially zarona

accatran (kantrael) is the worst one

[bitter turtle]

but its not bad at all even in more realistic scenarios

[pastel yew]

yo thats... more than I expected ngl

[bitter turtle]

yea

[pastel yew]

though it is stacking literally every buff known to man

[bitter turtle]

and if you want to save ammo

you can snipe it with slugs

its lower dps

but the slugs do a lot more damage

but like you know

[pastel yew]

doesnt the aggripina get less pellets?

like 8 rather than 15 while ads

[vernal trench]

anyone wanna do havoc 40

[pastel yew]

or am I remembering the shotgun order wrong

[vernal trench]

cant find anyone else

[bitter turtle]

idk tbh

i only use agri shotty

[pastel yew]

I thought it was slug shotgun that got gimped pellet count

[tall torrent]

just go read the guide lol

[bitter turtle]

so i cant compare them relative to others

i can just tell you its honestly a pretty good gun in auric

idk about havoc but a lot of guns suck in havoc

but

1. can oneshot gunners up to 15-20m with normal shots

2. good boss damage

3. best stagger on a gun
4. slugs can oneshot ragers

you could do a lot worse

[pastel yew]

aggripina

slug shotgun

unyielding pellet count

4

ID o think the agripina is still my favourite though, I'm a sucker for shotgun slugs

I just wish the loading on them wasnt so annoying

[bitter turtle]

tac reload

and also reload cancel by ads

its not too bad

i use volley adept too

[pastel yew]

I didnt know you could cancel the reload

neat

[bitter turtle]

yea

if you ads it cut s the reload short

no skill involved

[tough tiger]

Reload talents let you load special ammo fast too

[bitter turtle]

just hold right click lol

[pastel yew]

me ads to cancel animation... only to immediately un-ads so I can use that sweet 100% hipfire slug

goofy shit

[bitter turtle]

well

not like adsing the slug is bad either

its perfectly accurate at infinite range

either way

[pastel yew]

true but its not as satisfying

[bitter turtle]

but yeah

when i was feeling snipery

that was my go to

before the update

[tall torrent]

O, P, S and T blessings left

then all blessings ported over to steam version

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/894568981946576916.gif?size=48&name=FloppaShake&quality=lossless

[pastel yew]

almost done

[tall torrent]

I'm gonna title havoc section "suffering builds character"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[pastel yew]

what are the general views of havoc now we've had almost two weeks with it

people still finding it fun?

[tall torrent]

good mode, forces u to think more about positioning and tactics, actually trains u to play better in aurics

low build variety overall

[bitter turtle]

i find it fun but i worry about longevity

i think the balance of guns could be better

[pastel yew]

yee this is what I'm askin for

[bitter turtle]

ibut i will say it feels like a very

different game

than auric

[pastel yew]

not sure how long its gonna stay popular

[bitter turtle]

like its refreshing of an experience

[pastel yew]

fortunately some of my dark heresy group actually play darktide so I have some premade homies to play with

[bitter turtle]

so i think hypothetically they could compliment each other

[tall torrent]

make pus hardened not apply to ranged weakspot hits and gun variety instantly goes up by like 5

[bitter turtle]

auric for the running and gunning power fantasy where you dodge 1 gorillino bullets while killing everything that 15m around you

[pastel yew]

the pushardened condition does seem kinda shit

[bitter turtle]

havoc for the more teamwork based duck behind cover kinda gameplay

[pastel yew]

the gunner one I dont mind but having most ranged weapons be turbo trash just sounds boring

[bitter turtle]

and yeah pus hardened feels arbitary and dumb

honestly blight feels arbitrary and dumb too

[pastel yew]

I kinda like the blight condition

[bitter turtle]

its like "have a zealot :^)"

[tough tiger]

@pastel yew how about u actually play the mode and experience it for yourself

[pastel yew]

even if it is a bit silly

[bitter turtle]

ok but hear me out

what if it just did

[tough tiger]

I see u ask about havoc constantly

[bitter turtle]

normal ass damage

[tall torrent]

blight is kind of cringe but not as cringe as pus hardened

[bitter turtle]

like

[pastel yew]

I've played it a little, just hard to get premade together

[bitter turtle]

what if standing in it just did normal ass damage

[pastel yew]

plus some of the people I'm playing with rn arent lvl 30 as yet

[bitter turtle]

it would have th same effect while not forcing u to bring a zealot with beacon

idk

[tough tiger]

I got to 35 with chinese randoms

[bitter turtle]

in my eyes that is better

[tough tiger]

Its not impossible tonplay with pubs

[pastel yew]

at least beacon has some time in the sun?

as otherwise its uhh.. kinda shit

[bitter turtle]

i dont think beacon is that shitty either way

but then again

its because zealot auras dont have much competition

[tall torrent]

beacon is overall good because enemies' melee attacks deal corruption

[bitter turtle]

yea

its not useless without blight either

[pastel yew]

yeah I just find the mode less engaging. and if I wanna play with pubs it means either hosting my own lobbies or running meta shit

[tall torrent]

it's ok even outside of blight

[pastel yew]

seeing like 40 rejected invites because I had a chainaxe on really did make me regret trying to play

[bitter turtle]

i always think zealot auras are just what is better pathing

rather than needing a psecific aura

they're all just kinda ok

except loner

which is really shit

[pastel yew]

if there were more things that gave you corruption damage I'd agree but like

how often are you taking a sizeable amount of corruption damage in normal games?

[bitter turtle]

healing off a burster or random melee corruption damage is not bad

at least its not as worthless as 15% TDR in havoc

wow i might die to a gunner 0.1 seconds slower

[tall torrent]

there're like
8 good melee weapon variants for veteran in havoc

[tall torrent]

generally rare

[pastel yew]

true but the issue isnt whats good, its the perception of what's good

if people think x is trash they're gonna get pissy about it

[bitter turtle]

i havent seen people care

about what i bring

[pastel yew]

even if its perfectly adequate

[tall torrent]

but havoc throws 20+ ragers, bulwarks, maulers and crushers at the same time

[bitter turtle]

but i have been 40 since week 1 so maybe they just assume im gonna carry them

[pastel yew]

I know ogryns have had a rough time with rejected invites

[bitter turtle]

lel

[sleek garden]

me today

[wanton vapor]

As long as you aren’t an ogryn you’ve got an even chance of getting accepted

[bitter turtle]

like

ive literally brought DBS

[sleek garden]

was unable to get any invites

[bitter turtle]

to some 20-30 groups

[sleek garden]

playing ogryn

[pastel yew]

say that to all my rejected invites when using "bad" weapons

[bitter turtle]

and they still accept inv

[pastel yew]

easier just to host or play with friends

hoping my mates stick with the game past 30

[bitter turtle]

i bet they think true survivor + 40 clearance = SEKRIT DBS META

nah its shit

[pastel yew]

I like it

[bitter turtle]

me too

but its shit

lol

[pastel yew]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

like even in auric its barely justifiable

nevermind havoc

[pastel yew]

the only issue it really has in auric is its range

[bitter turtle]

"what if my gun only worked at melee range?"

[sleek garden]

dbs?

[bitter turtle]

fun gun though

[pastel yew]

it's also another one of those run ws or bust weapons

[sleek garden]

double barrel

[bitter turtle]

dual barrel shotgun

[pastel yew]

ye

[bitter turtle]

i dont mind it being kinda meme

its really fun

its fine for some things to be kinda trashy but just for the fun value

[pastel yew]

mhm agreed

its very much in the good enough tier

for what you use it for at least

quickly proc melee specialist and

yknow paste some guys sometimes

[bitter turtle]

yea too many games ruin things trying to achieve perfect balance

[pastel yew]

certainly not this one

[tall torrent]

should the havoc or penance section get the "suffering builds character" title

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/812451078221463632.gif?size=64

[bitter turtle]

penance

havoc is concievably fun

[pastel yew]

hmm..

[bitter turtle]

penance grinding is like maybe fun 1/5th of the time

[pastel yew]

I dont really attribute penances with suffering

honestly the vet ones arent so bad

[bitter turtle]

if the penance is actually interesting

the other time si spent playing ogryn

or crabwalking

[pastel yew]

the ones that suck are the neutral ones

[bitter turtle]

or running away from your teammates on zealot

[pastel yew]

like the barrel kills

[bitter turtle]

or trying to get barrel kills

[tall torrent]

they buffed that one

[pastel yew]

how much?

[tall torrent]

it counts red barrels' kills now

[pastel yew]

oh neat

it didnt before???

;-;

[bitter turtle]

thn again

[tall torrent]

used to only count yellow barrel explosions

[bitter turtle]

havoc maybe should be suffering builds character

[pastel yew]

christ

[bitter turtle]

since penance does not build character

[pastel yew]

I feel like penances are more monotonous than suffering

[bitter turtle]

or make you better at the game

it makes you throw smoke grenades at enemy gunners

which does fucking nothing

[pastel yew]

high level gameplay

I've ... warmed up to the smokes a little bit

not because they're good

they're just kinda stupid

I wish they came out faster

it feels the time it takes to prep one, aim, toss, wait on detonation

is longer than if I had just shot those enemies in the first place

I dont even know how they'd conceivably buff them to make em goodf

stimm effect? aoe stagger on initial detonation?

[bitter turtle]

that is the case in auric

maybe

but not in havoc

as for auric

[pastel yew]

yeah in havoc they seem good

[bitter turtle]

there is more synergy with stealth

since you can underhand a smoke right before you break stealth

then you come out of stealth

kill stuff insid ethe smoke

nothing outsdie can bother you

and you feel like a really cool fellow

[pastel yew]

sorta neat though yeah

I mean stealth already peels aggro for you

I guess not if you have the node

[bitter turtle]

even if you have the node

[pastel yew]

dont have*

[bitter turtle]

sometimes they will still shoot you

if they didnt get aggro on your teammates yet

since maybe ur team didnt actually shoot them yet

[pastel yew]

ah is that what's meant by -90% threat

[bitter turtle]

yeah

low profile is not foolproof

[pastel yew]

honestly I dont normally take it anyway

the only addon node I normally take is damage or the double charges if I dont think I'm gonna use it often

[bitter turtle]

i think its crucial if you want to do objectives with it

but yeah

eitehr way the underhand smoke thing is pretty nice with stealth

good synergy

but well

[pastel yew]

the stealth itself has a long enough duration for getting most things done tbf

[bitter turtle]

underhanding 2 shredders in the middle of the enemy pack is even better synergy

but what're you gonna do

shredders op

[pastel yew]

they're real good

it's kinda weird they made a grenade thats only super good in pairs

[bitter turtle]

nah

its fine in singletons as crowd control

like if you're facing down a lot of crushers

you dont really benefit that much from throwing two

you just wanna knock them down

[pastel yew]

I wouldnt really say that effect is strong for a grenade though

just the expected

though it's not like other grenade options deal with them particularly well

outside of the stun

[bitter turtle]

yeah

its nice to have two ways to use it either way

though

[pastel yew]

mhm

I really like both non smoke grenade options its just

kinda sucky the smokes such an outlier

if they came out faster I'd be happier to use them

[umbral scaffold]

thoughts on this bolter?

[pastel yew]

dont even make me hold n throw em... just have the grenade key throw a contact explosive or something idk

ninja bomb

way cooler

[bitter turtle]

idk

i think kraks are the outlier in usefulness

they're really

really niche imo

definitely the meme nade though

since new players are like "WOW IT KILLS A CRUSHER"

[pastel yew]

seems fine damage is maxed thats all I really care for on the bolter

[bitter turtle]

while their weapons are trashy

and they dont realize u can kill a crusher in under 1 second with endgame weapons

[umbral scaffold]

any stats in particular too low?

[pastel yew]

I think the thing with krak grenades arent really that they can kill crushers its just

[bitter turtle]

they are good for stunlocking bosses

[pastel yew]

they're very efficient

[bitter turtle]

that's their niche

aside from that i dont see a point

efficiency wise you are not going to beat a shredder nade

[pastel yew]

if my main armor piercing is my ranged weapon I will still tend to run kraks just to save ammo

[pastel yew]

nah I mean they all seem fine, collateral is just stagger I think which I find mostly pointless

[bitter turtle]

i think that doesnt make much sense

[pastel yew]

stability is still fine

[bitter turtle]

would you really run kraks over shredders ona revolver

or plasma

[pastel yew]

depends, I tend only to run shredders if I have bad horde clear

[umbral scaffold]

yeah cuz i was thinkigng of doing that or getting the random white rarity ones from brunts armory

[bitter turtle]

shredders are good for more than just horde clear

like the bad part about kraks for "anti armor"

when you have like 20 crushers and maulers closing in on you

[pastel yew]

for sure, though they're pretty good at that

[bitter turtle]

shredders are actually still better than kraks lol

so even in the context of dealing with armor

[pastel yew]

also its satisfying to try and line up enemies for a multi kill with kraks

[bitter turtle]

shredder wins

kraks only are more efficient when its like 1 or 2 lone dudes standing around

and why even use a nade for them

[pastel yew]

I'd never really take krak grenades just because I have no anti armor

if I have no anti armor in build then I remake

[bitter turtle]

yea

its hard to end up in that spot

but maybe someone really wants to play

idk

[pastel yew]

krak boss damage is also disgusting

[bitter turtle]

dclaw recon

[pastel yew]

I would say it should be nerfed but

its really the only thing they excel at

[bitter turtle]

i think its where it should be

its funny

bc i actually think they're decent for boss damage

[umbral scaffold]

is this one any better

[bitter turtle]

ive argued with people that say even the boss dmg is trash for 3 grenades

[pastel yew]

if you wanna spend more time reloading

[umbral scaffold]

make me

[bitter turtle]

but i think if it didnt do at least 1/3rd of the boss hp then its just bad

[pastel yew]

I'd imagine mobility or collateral is the stat you wanna dump though I'm not sure on whats hyper optimal

[bitter turtle]

with the full set i mean

[pastel yew]

the first one you showed is gonna be almost identical

[pastel yew]

yeah they'd need more than 2 for a default count

even then it just becomes a generation issue

as I'd say 1 frag is worth more than 1 krak

but you use em less so .. eh

idk they're fun, they're good at saving you some ammo and typically I dont really feel I need shredders

[bitter turtle]

they're fun

[pastel yew]

I have the rpg potion problem

[bitter turtle]

dont get me wrong

but it hink they are the niche nade

[pastel yew]

I think shredders are more just a send it grenade

[bitter turtle]

smokes are universally helpful, especially now

[pastel yew]

but I'm stingy as fuck and usually hold onto em so long they get less value

[bitter turtle]

the worst part about smokes is that they're not shredders and they're not above survivalist

but at least they have some good nodes around them too (10% melee and agile engagement)

[pastel yew]

to be fair

I think in most builds

agile engagement is way stronger than survivalist

that might change in the future but for now I'd say very much so

[bitter turtle]

in auric i actually agree

that is why i mostly play right side on builds before this update

in havoc i think lesser so

surv is more useful

[tall torrent]

it just is
outside of havoc and C-I-VI maelstrom

[pastel yew]

rip survivalist for normal play

[pastel yew]

which one even is that maelstrom

the no ammo

scab only?

[tall torrent]

ya

[pastel yew]

tbf I think I spend most of my time in melee when that conditions up

but yeah definitely good there

shame they didnt buff the other vet auras though, when survivalist got hit

5% more move speed gonna break the bank?

[bitter turtle]

10% movespeed on team would be busted

imo

[pastel yew]

I mean it'd boost your zealot to mad speeds but

to maintain the boost they can only go as fast as the vet can

reall

[fiery raft]

ogryn doesnt get interrupted for revives right?

[bitter turtle]

its not just running from one area to another, movespeed helps people reposition when things go bad and reduce the amount of dmg they take

[pastel yew]

after stamina runs out? I dont think so

[bitter turtle]

c&k is a good aura imo

id take it over any of zealot's auras except beacon in havoc

[fiery raft]

this ogrynt hen

[bitter turtle]

id also take over any of ogryn's auras

[pastel yew]

I honestly dont even remember the ogyrn auras

[bitter turtle]

except heavy melee dmg one on builds where i use heavy attacks

but only on those builds

[umbral scaffold]

hows this?

[bitter turtle]

and i'd take it over psyker's elite dmg aura

and obv fire team

[pastel yew]

isnt that like giga roll

outside of havoc maybe

[bitter turtle]

so like, its better than half the auras in the game imo

[pastel yew]

psykers 5% crit

[bitter turtle]

i know

[pastel yew]

is everything the 5% damage isnt

[bitter turtle]

the other two auras on psyker are really good

[tall torrent]

nah, they're fine

[bitter turtle]

but its ok to be worse than them

[pastel yew]

5% damage moment

[bitter turtle]

its still better than the majority

[pastel yew]

I can think of like

[tall torrent]

people who think they desperately need buffs simply do not know veteran well enough

[pastel yew]

a weird set up of plasma gun? and bolt pistol dreg rager breakpoints that even are affected

[umbral scaffold]

cleave only 60% tho?

[bitter turtle]

fire team is niche but there are times it can push you right over a bp

[tall torrent]

dump defense

[umbral scaffold]

huh

[pastel yew]

cleave doesnt matter outside of havoc where it might

since you just run the .. hit mass

blessing

thats not brutal momentum

because it needed its own special name

[tall torrent]

mb, defences

dump defences

[pastel yew]

deathblow

[umbral scaffold]

what do you mean by dump defences?

[pastel yew]

re-roll till you get one with 60 max defence

80 everywhere else

if you want the ideal mega max

though I'd say for anything non havoc what you got is chilling

also yeah why do the heavy swords not get brutal momentum, they just get it with a different name

[steep grail]

what does defences even do

[pastel yew]

is it % damage difference

[bitter turtle]

i dont know what deathblow did before

[pastel yew]

push cost? and

[bitter turtle]

but bromentum did not have the effect it has right now in the past

[steep grail]

i THINK its 12.5 vs 15

nvm

[bitter turtle]

so maybe deathblow was always that effect

[pastel yew]

not sure on the % diffs maybe

[bitter turtle]

and bromentum got changed into being the same

but idk

[umbral scaffold]

o ok

[bitter turtle]

idr if deathblow ever was different

[pastel yew]

what difference is the 5% damage aura making

its such a tiny %

even if it was 5% total damage I dont think it'd make much difference

[bitter turtle]

it helped me hit BP on rashad before crafting update

[steep grail]

pathing

that's the only reason i know for taking fire team

[pastel yew]

I agree on pathing through whichever aura is cheapest

but I do think it'd be nice if the auras had some more intense impact

vet overall doesnt need buffs

[bitter turtle]

i think fire team is niche but not uniquely bad

[pastel yew]

but I'd be fine with some balance adjustments to the top and bottom end of strength

[steep grail]

please fatshark

[bitter turtle]

its roughly as good as most of the other auras on other classes that are also meh

[steep grail]

either give smokes a use or give vet a different nade

[umbral scaffold]

is first target good?

[steep grail]

they are genuinely worthless

[bitter turtle]

smokes are good though

[pastel yew]

its just like.. worse 5% crit which is already kinda niche

[bitter turtle]

nah, 5% crit is really good

[steep grail]

they are not

[bitter turtle]

people actively take it over 10% cdr lol

[steep grail]

i can't be convinced of this

[pastel yew]

I like it on psyker a lot

[bitter turtle]

then i dont see a point in talking about it w/ you, but they are seeing use in havoc

[pastel yew]

but thats because gunpsyker and voidstrike staff

[bitter turtle]

and speaking anecdotally i enjoyed using them even in auric

[steep grail]

oh

in havoc

maybe

i havent touched that mode

[bitter turtle]

ever since they got buffed and fixed

i have maintained

they are better than kraks

[pastel yew]

nah no way

[bitter turtle]

a grenade

[steep grail]

both are pretty shit imo

[bitter turtle]

that only matters

if a boss spawns

is so mid

oh and maybe itll save you 2 bullets on your revolver

wow

[pastel yew]

kraks are nice for getting rid of bulwarks too

which are giga annoying

[steep grail]

theres 0 reason to ever take the other nades over shredders besides pathing

[bitter turtle]

yea but shredders are op

that doesnt make smokes bad

[steep grail]

smokes are bad for different reasons though

[pastel yew]

smokes are bad because they provide like... nothing I dont already get by just dodging and playing normally

[tall torrent]

plasma gun, bolt pistol, graia VII autogun, some axe breakpoints

it applies to everything and u get tinkerer before it, I think it's in a fine spot

[umbral scaffold]

what stats do I want

[bitter turtle]

well

i dont feel like having another discussion about smokes right when we finished one lol

you can feel free to keep not taking them

[pastel yew]

though I am biased against smokes as I hate playing around them on my team

I cant seee

my eeeeeeeeeeyes

[bitter turtle]

have you tried

standing inside

because there is basically no visibility loss then

lol

[pastel yew]

if I'm playing a ranged focussed vet I'm likely not close to where they're going off

also most vets pubbies tend to toss em miles out

[bitter turtle]

people being bad at using them doesnt make it a bad blitz

[tall torrent]

buddy ur supposed to throw smokes at where u want to be

[pastel yew]

there are better ways of making up your plasma gun diffs, same with the bolt pistol.

[bitter turtle]

ist just dome that doesnt go down in 6 seconds from gunfire

[tall torrent]

yea, requires taking focus target

[pastel yew]

if I'm playing a ranged focus vet, where I wanna be aint necessarily where they want to be

[tall torrent]

so if u want WS u gotta kiss survivalist goodbye

[pastel yew]

I want to stand where I can see everything

so I can bap bap heads

[bitter turtle]

unironically

i have no idea

even if things are covered in smoke

its not hard to hit headshots

[steep grail]

do smokes stop ragers/crushers yet

[bitter turtle]

but pinging is second nature to me at this point

[steep grail]

is that in the game

[pastel yew]

idk plasma gun weapon spec just feels so... weird as a build

[tall torrent]

u just smoke ur own position

[pastel yew]

unless your melee needs it

[tall torrent]

no, not enough stagger

[pastel yew]

I'm not the one throwing them

[steep grail]

no i mean like

standing in the smoke

[bitter turtle]

they are not supposed to stop melee elites lol

[steep grail]

do the smokes even do anything about melee

[bitter turtle]

do you count specialists as melee

[tall torrent]

if they're not aggro'd on you, they can't see u in the smoke if they're outside smoke

[pastel yew]

they stop you getting shot while in melee

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

cus they stop dogs and flamers

and somewhat trappers

[pastel yew]

somewhat?

buggy or

just inconsistent

[bitter turtle]

and snipers (obvious)

[bitter turtle]

no

its that the trappers can still shoot you

they just have to get much closer

[pastel yew]

ahhh

[bitter turtle]

so its not stopped they just give you more time

[steep grail]

maybe i just need to use them

[pastel yew]

unironically if it stopped trappers shooting you

instant S tier

[bitter turtle]

idk

trappers are whatever

[pastel yew]

relationship with smoke grenades started

[bitter turtle]

i dont even consider them top priority on specialists

i usually shoot flamer and bombers first

[steep grail]

trappers and dogs are low priority targets imo

[bitter turtle]

then trapper and dog

[pastel yew]

trappers are whatever but they're the main thing that kills me, I have a bad habit of dodging into three pixels of poxwalker ankle which cancels my dodge

nothing else is really that punishing

[steep grail]

burster flamers bombers snipers mutants dogs trappers

[bitter turtle]

i believe that's called a skill issue

jk

[pastel yew]

[steep grail]

thats my list of priority

[bitter turtle]

snipers are lowest on the totem pole for me

[pastel yew]

you say jk but

[bitter turtle]

unironically

[pastel yew]

unironically true

[bitter turtle]

they have somehow become

the most harmless ranged enemy

i will literally shoot trash mob shooters before them in havoc

[pastel yew]

yeah they're more of a pest than a real issue

but I think thats the intent

[steep grail]

ill be honest

im just bad at dealing with them lol

thats why theyre high priority

or

[pastel yew]

its just an extra thing to keep in mind while in melee

[steep grail]

not high

but higher

[bitter turtle]

not even a pest, the only time they will ever get u

is if you're literally

unable to move

but you're fucked either way at that point

if you're knee deep bodyblocked in poxwalkers

and nowadays, even if they DO hit you, i stg they will do less damage than 2 scab stalkers getting a full salvo on you

[pastel yew]

I'd probably go tox bomber > trapper > flamers/regular bomber > sniper > elite gunners unless someone got over aggressive

[bitter turtle]

in havoc at least

[pastel yew]

the tox bomber is the only actually effective enemy

[steep grail]

gunners are top of the totem pole to me

[pastel yew]

fucking kobe bouncing his nades through vents several hab blocks away

[steep grail]

only because literally every pub i get into there's someone that forgets sliding is a mechanic

and they get melted

[pastel yew]

pubs do have a bad habit of over exposing themself to em

I dont think many people have played that many difficult shooters though

like in any compet shooter you're not gonna peek out more than you can kill but darktide players really do be running into the open

[tall torrent]

if it had enough stagger to interrupt rager combo and blocked bombers from throwing grenades at u, it'd be very strong

[bitter turtle]

yea

the isngle buff i want for smoke grenades

is

"why can bombers see through smoke"

[pastel yew]

tbf

they've got an aoe weapon like

if I was a bomber I'd be lobbing grenades in there too

[bitter turtle]

by that logic

why do gunners stop shooting

why do flamers stop flaming

[pastel yew]

because they're stupid

[bitter turtle]

heretics lack object permanence

[pastel yew]

only the grenadier went to school

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

this is criminal

[pastel yew]

I do think more should be done to adjust flamers though

after fire damage got gutted idk

[tall torrent]

the logic makes some sense given that their grenades can deny smoke entries (and scabs are elite guard)

but I wish it was smarter like
what if there're 2 smoke clouds, why should the bomber still throw nade at exactly where I am

[pastel yew]

I've felt they've been sorta made redundant a lot of the time

[bitter turtle]

the logic makes sense but smoke grenades' effect isnt logical anyway

i mean

if u were a gunner and some dude threw a smoke at his feet

what would you do

stop shooting into the smoke?

[steep grail]

gunners are so dumb

[bitter turtle]

that is the major deficiency they have vs dome

imo

dome stops bombers

smokes doesnt

though i guess no smokes last 15 seconds and dome lasts 6 in havoc

but still

[pastel yew]

also the regular bomber... bro got his ass kicked by the fire changes, then the tox bomber got added which does exactly what the bomber should do but way more effectively

[bitter turtle]

no stop bomber annoys me

[tall torrent]

tinker smokes are worth it

[steep grail]

i dont know whats happened but i didn't play darktide for like a week and now i hate the plasma gun

[tall torrent]

30s

[bitter turtle]

yeah

have to path into them though

out of the way

[tall torrent]

yea it's easy

[bitter turtle]

no matter what you're doing

[tall torrent]

same point cost

unless u rly need 5% crit chance

[bitter turtle]

agile though 😔

[tall torrent]

u take agile all the same

[bitter turtle]

yeah but its more point cost

also i do actually value 5% crit

[umbral parrot]

I do!

[bitter turtle]

since infernus

is actually important

[pastel yew]

its one more if you take agile though no?

[umbral parrot]

Also on a Power Sword.

[tall torrent]

oh yea right
still fine imo

I think fire team is better than C&K usually

just because of tinker

[umbral parrot]

Halt!

Speed makes all the difference when in a clutch situation. It helps a ton with heavy hitting weapons that are slow.

[bitter turtle]

yea i like C&K a lot

[umbral parrot]

Saaame

[tall torrent]

what weapons are slow

[bitter turtle]

power sword for one :^)

even if i dont use it

[umbral parrot]

You should~

[pastel yew]

0.26 movespeed? on sprint for vet right

its not a lot

[tall torrent]

power sword gets +0.27m/s sprint speed cuz ur gonna take 80% mobility (cleave target dump)

that's faster than rashad

[bitter turtle]

not if you play sunder no?

ive kept cleave target at 80 for sunder

idk if thats right though

[umbral parrot]

You need everything you can get. I won't pass up Fire Team, but Close&Kill....

[tall torrent]

it's not

43.6 vs 46.8 cleave with sunder

irrelevant differences vs anything that actually matter

u still don't get to hit 5 scab ragers/maulers

[umbral parrot]

So cleave Damage?

[pastel yew]

most secondary stats tend to boil down to irrelevant differences

[tall torrent]

no, dump cleave target (only for power sword)

[bitter turtle]

well either way

[umbral parrot]

Yea, Finesse and Mobility is the best in Psword

[pastel yew]

mobility never dump stat

[bitter turtle]

i still value minor speed differences

[pastel yew]

always go fast

[bitter turtle]

like the ":walk away from horde" demonstration lel

even small amounts can make a difference

[pastel yew]

I think its very hard to visualise how much effect they have

[bitter turtle]

well

i made a visualization

and you dismissed it

:(

[tall torrent]

not hard

[pastel yew]

I still stand by the walking away from horde being meaningless

I'm sorryyy

[tall torrent]

have u played COD before

lightweight perk in cod

same exact thing

[pastel yew]

mhm though not too much

[umbral parrot]

But we in Danktide~!

And Speed is everything.

[sleek garden]

its getting sad playing high level and only seeing people use duelling sword

[bitter turtle]

im just saying

[sleek garden]

across all players

just duelling sword

[bitter turtle]

ds4 and knife have consistently been top tier

[pastel yew]

the weapons that give you move speed just give way way more

[bitter turtle]

for one reason alone

and its going fast

so i will go faster

[pastel yew]

even further beyond

[umbral parrot]

It's good!

[pastel yew]

that 5% aura is just imperceptible when using such weapons though imo

[umbral parrot]

I don't use it. Power Sword is better

[pastel yew]

at least if you're already slow its a larger percentage of the total but

if you're already moving like 30-40% faster

with heavy attack tech

that 5% suddenly becomes real small

[bitter turtle]

yea but you're not always doing that

[pastel yew]

nice that it applies when not sprinting

[bitter turtle]

its not like we are only ever moving when we slide around into the next room trying to speedrun

if you're doing attacks and dtrying to maneuver around a horde and elites

you are just walking

[tall torrent]

I think power sword might be 3rd best veteran melee in havoc

[pastel yew]

I'm usually dodging or sliding while doing that so I dont get shot

[tall torrent]

behind duelling sword and axe

[bitter turtle]

i usually dont fight a horde while being shot at by gunners

[steep grail]

speaking of which

[bitter turtle]

but you know

havoc

i guess

lol

[steep grail]

how do i build the rashad

[tall torrent]

and that's for the sole reason of power sword not having to run right side to be good

[pastel yew]

yea I mean in regular auric damnation + gunners just dont matter

dodge left, dodge right

[bitter turtle]

nothign matters in regular auric damnation

[tall torrent]

give me a sec

[umbral parrot]

Tried HAVOC without me? Totally not jealous

[bitter turtle]

just play hwatever you want

etc

[pastel yew]

how does the combat axe cleave hold up given the changes

[steep grail]

i pray that fatshark adds another level of auric

[pastel yew]

I pray they rebalance their game first

[tall torrent]

talent choices may differ for havoc

[umbral parrot]

This.

If I can do PSword with Weak spot Damage and Crit Chance, you can do anything

[pastel yew]

there's a list of like S tier weapons that need to be adjusted before a harder difficulty comes out

also some weapons that could use some tlc

[umbral parrot]

Rashid and Dueling Sword?

[tall torrent]

are better yea, imo

[umbral parrot]

Booooo

Not yet used them tho lol

[steep grail]

i suppose

[tall torrent]

power sword needs to go like sunder for havoc
BM on it not as good as axe imo

[errant dragon]

Does Dueling Sword have good horde clear? Felt off last time I used it, but works well on my Psyker

[tall torrent]

there's just way too much melee pressure most of the time

[steep grail]

it has the bare minimum

its not good by any means

but it works at best

[pastel yew]

its got dog horde clear on psyker too just... psyker has a lot of tools to help there

[tall torrent]

it's the worst horde clear melee if we exclude ogryn weapons so yea

[pastel yew]

ogryn melee weapons being worse is such a meme

[umbral parrot]

I do just fine in HAVOC when I tried it.

[pastel yew]

tossing them around more than doing damage

[bitter turtle]

Complete trash at horde

[steep grail]

almost every ogryn weapon needs to be looked at

[bitter turtle]

Knife is unironically faster

[pastel yew]

knife clear only really feels bad against poxxies...

[steep grail]

why are the pickaxes the only ogryn weapons that feel finished

[bitter turtle]

Even against poxwalkers

I'd rather have mk6 knife

[umbral parrot]

Don't let the Ogryns hear you. They will die on their hill trying to convince you otherwise

[bitter turtle]

Than ds4

[pastel yew]

mhm

25% attack speed goes a long way for any light spam horde clear though

I dont think I'd run the dueling sword without weapon spec

not that I have or intend to run it anyway

[steep grail]

the dueling sword without weapon specialist feels like torture

[tall torrent]

the point of duelling sword is kind of to not run WS lol

it benefits so little from attack speed

[bitter turtle]

Idk why you'd ws ds4 yea

It doesn't make it better at killing elite

[umbral parrot]

Really!?

[pastel yew]

the benefit is making its painfol horde clear slightly less painful, pulss you're already going down that anyway I'd assume?

[bitter turtle]

And 25%better trash is still trash vs horde

[steep grail]

i hate swinging slowly that's literally it

[tall torrent]

nah u'd just run DS2 with rampage

[bitter turtle]

No you arent

[tall torrent]

or knife mk6

[steep grail]

also i like dodging

[bitter turtle]

Point of taking ds4 is it takes loke

[pastel yew]

do you not need the melee talents on vet with the ds?

[tall torrent]

it's just ass at horde clear, period

[bitter turtle]

No melee talents

[pastel yew]

gross

giga gross

[bitter turtle]

To 2shot crushers and shit

And the meme speed

[tall torrent]

it's the zero melee investment carapace answer, if u don't like power sword

[bitter turtle]

Thats why everyone take it in havoc btw

[pastel yew]

yeah I figured you needed to path down the melee tree for it to be as giga as it is

[bitter turtle]

Speed and your melee only needs to kill elites

[tall torrent]

that's just not true

[pastel yew]

evidently

[bitter turtle]

The horde is answered by other things that aren't melee

[pastel yew]

god I hate that though

[tall torrent]

that path is only rly necessary for smth like axe

[bitter turtle]

I refuse to play axe without ws

It feels like shit

[tall torrent]

because axe is somehow a balanced melee on veteran (in regards to investment)

[umbral parrot]

You and your axe lol.

[pastel yew]

I mean why would you play the rashad without weapon spec like

it combines so well

[bitter turtle]

Because everything is an opportunity cost

[pastel yew]

helps that its like

the strongest vet weapon

[umbral parrot]

Nah, I'll stick to my Power Sword

[jaunty sphinx]

picked up the recon lasgun. am I being pranked? isnt this thing supposed to be good?

[pastel yew]

power sword is definitely notably worse

[bitter turtle]

Depend

Are you doing the reddit build

Then yea you're being pranked

[steep grail]

what is the reddit build

[umbral parrot]

Then I'm so good, I make a bad weapon good.

[jaunty sphinx]

whats the reddit build

[pastel yew]

can you build a recon build wrong?

[bitter turtle]

Onslaught mk12

[pastel yew]

power sword isnt a bad weapon

[tall torrent]

what

[umbral parrot]

Notably? Come on

[pastel yew]

its s tier as well

its just the axe is that much better

its degenerate strong

[tall torrent]

nah

it's not "that much better"

it's just a little bit better

[pastel yew]

maybe in havoc the difference is lesser

but

[tall torrent]

but takes 5 more points to be good

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean

I assume you're taking the build for it

but with the melee perks its that much better

[tall torrent]

I think power sword is a significantly dumber melee than axe

[umbral parrot]

Explain l! You got my attention. What's your ax build?

[steep grail]

is this a real piece of advice people give out?

[pastel yew]

I think they're both pretty dumb I wont lie

[bitter turtle]

I still don't like psword in havoc

[bitter turtle]

U get down voted

If u say it's a meme

On reddit

[pastel yew]

axe just excels at everything except horde clear which its totally acceptable at

not horde clear

bah

[bitter turtle]

Like mass down voted

[pastel yew]

boss damage

my brains fried

[tall torrent]

axe needs trench fighter to function, power sword takes zero investment in bottom right to be good

[jaunty sphinx]

after using the relic blade I dont think i can ever use the vet psword again tbqh

[bitter turtle]

Same with saying kraks are niche

[tall torrent]

what

[steep grail]

onslaught stinks. i thought it was good and then i used it again

[pastel yew]

boss damage better on the power sword than the axe?

well

[umbral parrot]

PSword does everything. Boss Damage, Horde, and snipe out elites

[pastel yew]

the mk6 power sword

[pastel yew]

yeah its good, its just slower

[jaunty sphinx]

is there a best mark for the recon?

[pastel yew]

except for the bosses

[bitter turtle]

6 for havoc

And imo 14 for auric

[umbral parrot]

Oh... Well yea. You have to time stuff

[jaunty sphinx]

ty

[pastel yew]

also the rashad has other benefits like being able to properly make use of ws

[bitter turtle]

14 has cleave and better specialist dps