veteran-class

[cyan verge]

if you are in havoc you have VoC

[terse idol]

I'm a HUGE Helbore stan rn

Relationship ended with bistol, new best friends with helbore

[cyan verge]

additionally like if you have a zealot with flamer they probably want to be eating most of the ammo

OR you could just hire a psyker to inferno staff for you I guess but hey

[somber axle]

Helbores are like infinite ammo guns with Shock Trooper, Reciprocity, Surgical (and Deadshot if you pair with Target Down or Tunnel Vision) but tbh you can make the other three variants work very well with Shock Trooper

Plus Laspistols get funny ADMs vs Flak

[pastel yew]

I wish the mk3 got the fun stab like the others

[somber axle]

And you can get both Ghost/Infernus on them

[cyan verge]

laspistol has no reason to be as strong as it is

[terse idol]

Tru

[pastel yew]

instead it has the awful overhead slash despite being the weapon that needs it most

[terse idol]

I thought it met some BP's easier

Buutt, I dunno

[cyan verge]

I have NO idea why they have that stupid bayonet slash

it's SO slow

[terse idol]

Overhead sswing pain

at best it could do something better

[pastel yew]

its hitbox is also just fucking incorrect

you have to aim at the ceiling to hit their head

straight 45 angle up

[cyan verge]

lol

it's true yeah

[pastel yew]

they got some quality of life buffs recently though right?

like draw time or something... I cant remember

[bitter turtle]

You may want to clarify

DO NOT PLAY ILAS IN HARDENED MODIFIER

lul

[somber axle]

Yeah true LOL

You will suffer

[bitter turtle]

It's real good except when you gotta shoot a hardened reaper pinning your team down

[somber axle]

Just because iLas is very ammo efficient doesn't mean it handles pox hardened fine

No Infernus on iLas

[tiny summit]

They truly made it a slash just to make sure it was nerfed in a really stupid way to make you choose the other 2 for more than just raw dmg

[agile mango]

is it a bad idea to bring one +3 stam curio for havoc or should I just have all touoghness?

[cyan verge]

true...

[tiny summit]

Stam is great

[bitter turtle]

Nice ela 🫡

[cyan verge]

I don't even know, I think you might want some HP curios for havoc but idk

[bitter turtle]

1 stam is fine

[cyan verge]

ideally you have max gold toughness all the time anyway

[agile mango]

sick

[tiny summit]

I got 3 Elas before 1 Doc on that banner

[bitter turtle]

i spent 100 pulls to get lucilla

yes i know she's useless

no id idnt want ulpainus or whatever his name is

[tiny summit]

I havent gotten her. Got Ulpianus 1st 10 pull though. Need JoJo VA on my team

[pastel yew]

I used to be a stam doubter but.. honestly the utility is so nice

more sprinting more pushing better revives

[tiny summit]

Degenbrecher though...I spent like 80 pulls. I got like 4 other 6*s before her. I was about to give up

[bitter turtle]

fragile on non elites and non bosses
what was hypergryph thinking

[somber axle]

Idk if Guide Cat toyed with HP curios or not for high rank Havoc but you lose a LOT of HP with the hidden modifiers so getting and maintaining the >200 HP breakpoint for bursters/snipers is probably not worth the extra investment

[tiny summit]

As long as she's pretty

[bitter turtle]

she's pretty

pretty useless

[cyan verge]

I don't even know if it's possible to reach that kind of breakpoint

[bitter turtle]

also pretty

[cyan verge]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

i have her m6 and max level

[cyan verge]

so idk what you even do for curios lol

fuck it 3x stamina curios we ball

+9 stamina sprint 4 days

[bitter turtle]

corruption resist is nice to mitigate some dmg from bursters

it also helps mitigate GREEN SHIT

[cyan verge]

is havoc the +1 wound curio's time to shine?

probably not I guess

[bitter turtle]

becaon doesnt stop it from killing your hp

[eternal verge]

the gunner resist 40% stays on during sex

[somber axle]

Yeah but I think they meant the main curio stat and not perks

[cyan verge]

gunner resist actually sucks sorry

[bitter turtle]

yeah, i just mean its still possible to mitigate it quite a great deal even if you cant reach 200 hp

[tiny summit]

Think of it this way. Taking toughness dmg is a mistake. Taking health dmg is double/severe mistake. Just get good gamer. Do less mistakes

[cyan verge]

oh yeah corruption resist is good

[pastel yew]

realest thing you've ever said

[bitter turtle]

and its a nice side effect since you're taking corruption resist fo rother reasons to begin with

[agile mango]

focus target or weapon specialist for havoc?

[bitter turtle]

depends entirely on your weapon

i will say i find myself swapping weapons actively in a fight much less in havoc

its either i threw two grenades and am stabbing all the crushers or shooting constantly to kill gunners

[agile mango]

thx

[bitter turtle]

remember you dont even have to take a keystone

(i dont)

[tiny summit]

ty for reminding me, needed to change pfp to Ulpianus

[bitter turtle]

it was better before

[tiny summit]

[bitter turtle]

[tiny summit]

but jotaro

[bitter turtle]

stardust crusaders is the worst story arc and jotaro is lame sorry not sorry

also i dont like jojo

[tiny summit]

it'll probably be the free op from this event next

[bitter turtle]

Tullia

[tough tiger]

3x stam goes hard

But you get melted even harder

[eternal verge]

why is heresy

30x harder

than auric heresy

or auric maelstrom

oh right

people

[bitter turtle]

just kill everything solo

enemies are made of paper

[tiny summit]

Not good enough for Damn. Ego feels above Malice. Heresy is my queue for suffering.

[eternal verge]

I can’t do that with 10 ragers, maulers, crushers and bulwarks shoved up my ass because Mr electric fingers and the level 30 glue sniffing zealot (still playing default heresy at level 30) are too busy scraping paint off the walls with their two front teeth

[bitter turtle]

2 shredder grenades

[tiny summit]

Snort some warp dust and be the true vet gamer

[eternal verge]

I had no grenades because I was using them to revive my dumbass teammates

like, throw grenade and use the stun

from the grenade

I’m just going to let them die now tbh

[bitter turtle]

well

[eternal verge]

I’m realizing all my deaths are because I’m trying to save my allies

[bitter turtle]

the real answer is dont get cornered tbh

but yes

dont make dumb plays trying to save people

you can always pick them up later

[eternal verge]

nah, most of these scenarios have been me getting cornered while trying to help my allies (who of which have their liquified brains pouring out of their ears) out of their corner

[tiny summit]

Remember playing smart is always above risking it for teammates

[cyan verge]

if you really really want to save the run the best thing to do is yeah start to play really slow, safe, cautious, and progress carefully

if all your friends go down

[eternal verge]

the best way I could save the run is if they’d let me play private alone

bots are more competent tbh

[cyan verge]

lol

bots I think work up to heresy

after that I think things get fuzzy

[eternal verge]

this person was like. Level 22+

[cyan verge]

bots can be reliable in one way - they kill horde, so thanks to you being a veteran you are in a good position to do nothing but kill specials

[eternal verge]

from what I remember

[bitter turtle]

i was doing havoc 20~ with a friend

(who is not very good)

and had another teammate

(who is also not very good)

i had to leave in 30 min for work

[cyan verge]

oof

[bitter turtle]

so i unironically just spedrun the last event while they died multiple times

you just gotta do

what you gotta do sometimes

[eternal verge]

I appreciate how he had to slide before meleeing the daemonhost

[cyan verge]

if you can keep specials off of the bots entirely (some are more dangerous to bots than others) then the bots will survive for the entire mission and potentially not even take damage

[eternal verge]

like he wanted to hit that bitch right in the cooch

[bitter turtle]

bots have an comedic amount of damage reduction

[hollow ibex]

free survivalist, good cannon fodder, doesn't steal your ammo

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

gigachad teammates tbh

[eternal verge]

this is so true

[bitter turtle]

also doesnt pick you up if more than 1 poxwalker is attacking your corpse

but

[eternal verge]

I hate heresy and maelstrom players auric heresy and maelstrom players got me

[bitter turtle]

you never die

because you're a gamer(TM)

RIGHT?

[cyan verge]

yeah you just have to look out for trappers, I think crushers, snipers, bombers and bursters, but, you're a vet so you were doing that anyway

[eternal verge]

does the ai stop shooting pox walkers that go near you

I mean uhh

bursters

[cyan verge]

the bots are terrible at dealing with bursters in general

at least in my experience

[eternal verge]

I swear to god I saw a bot push a burster

[cyan verge]

they usually just eat the entire explosion

they CAN

but bots priorities are usually taken up by killing horde

[eternal verge]

this means they’re better than 80% of the playerbase

[cyan verge]

and if they are busy with that, they can get confused and fail to do it

this also means that sometimes they will eat a mauler or crusher overhead when in mixed horde, but if it's JUST like a pack of maulers, bots can VERY SLOWLY whittle them down without dying, even with their stupid dclaws

same with trappers, they will always dodge trappers unless pre-occupied with heavy horde

[eternal verge]

if they can push poxhounds they’re better than the entirety of the darktide reddit

[cyan verge]

they can but they are unfortunately sometimes very bad at dealing with hounds

sometimes they will literally path all the way over to you, and melee the hound, instead of just shooting it to death with their laser accurate aim

sometimes they do get it like immediately though if they're close by

since they do prioritize helping you

yeah, I've played with bots extensively just from farming certain penances...

[eternal verge]

guhh

I have no clue why you can’t private alone

[cyan verge]

yeah...

[hollow ibex]

small indie dev, pls understand

[real sorrel]

high tier vet players, whats the lowdown with the cooldown stat on curious

[austere mica]

3.6 seconds

For 3 slots

[real sorrel]

ehhhhh cheers

[keen lagoon]

I played a Havoc with a bot and he kept running into toxic gas and dying

[errant dragon]

Is the best Rashad 60 mobility, 80 everything else?

[hollow ibex]

yeh

[eternal verge]

guys help hadron did something to my gun

[tall torrent]

Good old rubberbanding

Server been bad

Audio got messed up the last hotfix

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/894568981946576916.gif?size=48&name=FloppaShake&quality=lossless

[eternal verge]

the lag interaction is really funny in this game

sometimes everything freezes and all my damage gets registered after the spike

sandevistan activation

https://tenor.com/view/cyberpunk2077-edgerunners-time-slow-time-stop-cyberpsychosis-gif-26734128

[cyan verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNQs_Bef_V8

[austere mica]

The only problem is its you too

[eternal verge]

yeah no it definitely was here

it was during midday where my WiFi occasionally spikes

[austere mica]

Wait how the fuck do those shells eject so fast

and how does his handgun cycle in time

[eternal verge]

anime ✨

first you should question how a spine implant gives you super speed

[austere mica]

The other implants are the speed

The sandevistan is the increase of speed of thought

[eternal verge]

still makes zero fucking sense lmfao

[austere mica]

Yeah

[cyan verge]

don't worry about it

it's all fine

[austere mica]

But thats my attempt at an explanation

[cyan verge]

those sorts of sci-fi augments have always been just like, a sci-fi concepts that writers like

[eternal verge]

it’s fucking awesome though

[cyan verge]

it is

speculative fiction type stuff

[indigo lark]

Which laspistol mark is better for havoc?

[cyan verge]

Mk II

well, I think they are comparable but the Mk X is unpleasant to use

[hallow drift]

Doesn’t Mk2 have higher crit chance?

[pastel yew]

deeply unpleasant....

maybe its just because I've used so much of the mk2

[hallow drift]

Or maybe it’s just the crazy rate of fire that makes it feel like it crits more

[pastel yew]

they really could have made the mk10 look bulkier though

and more accurate on the hipfire

it'd have done the world of good

[hallow drift]

Mk10 should’ve been able to be charged like the Lucius

[pastel yew]

I think both mks have the same crit chance

I might be wrong though

is it +10%? am i tripping

[pastel yew]

yooo its even higher

[austere mica]

both have knife crits

[pastel yew]

god damn

[hallow drift]

Oh it is 15, nice

[cyan verge]

the crit stats for the laspistols is the same

someone was saying that one or the other 'feels' like it has more crit the other day too, it's not the case

[pastel yew]

I mean it'll feel like more because you will get more in the same amount of time

just

not more in the same amount of shots on average or whatever

mk10 looks too puny for how slow it fires

[hallow drift]

Basically this yeah

Mk2 has double the fire rate and both will headshot most enemies in 2-3 shots so the MkX doesn’t feel like a great trade off

[cyan verge]

yeah the MK 10 feels like a bad heavy revolver but it's a gun that shoot light out of a battery

[hallow drift]

Plus it has actual recoil, icky

[cyan verge]

honestly las weapons having recoil at all is baffling

it's. light.

I know part of it is like okay well it's for handling, for the feel of shooting something

from a player perspective

but

[hallow drift]

Isn’t the lore explanation that soldiers “expect” the weapon to recoil in order to feel like it’s working

So they just added artificial recoil

[cyan verge]

lmao oh so it has an N64 rumble pack in there somewhere? haha yeah sure okay

[hallow drift]

Because you’re right, it’s a laser. It’s not like Star Wars which has an explanation like “Oh the gas is ignited inside the blaster so there’s still an explosion to send the plasma bolt”

40k lore is silly af, I just disregard any rules or logic like most of the writers do

[cyan verge]

yeah fortunately it doesn't bother me

not really

[eternal verge]

balance

[indigo lark]

I have been liking the mk 2 but testing the mk x in meat grinder felt alright too but I'll stick with mk II

[hallow drift]

Absolutely shatters it to pieces when you just go “Mmm that’s cool but let me raise you…video game?”

[pastel yew]

give all las weapons 100% pinpoint accurate hipfire...

I beg

[hallow drift]

Lasgun damage is reduced to shredder levels

A finger curls on the Monkey’s Paw

[pastel yew]

though the mk10 feeling like a bad revolver is pretty on point

or maybe a bad bolt pistol is more fitting

in the same way the infantry lasguns just feel like worse vigilant autoguns

[eternal verge]

revolver my beloved

[pastel yew]

whatever the old vraks mk7 is now, is the goat for that weapon class in normal play

[eternal verge]

I wanna try out the gunslinger fanning variant but I don’t see an advantage other than it’s cool asf

[pastel yew]

fatshark balancing... meanwhile plasmagun buffed

again

[pastel yew]

its.. better into generic elites at close range..

sometimes

it has more ammo?

uhh...

yeah no its not great

but it is good enough

[eternal verge]

does it still hold 5 even

[pastel yew]

6 I think

[eternal verge]

listen if it held like 7 or 8 even it would’ve been better imo you can make a revolver chunky enough for 8

[pastel yew]

fuck that

40k chain pistol

[eternal verge]

if the hipfire was fanning

and the aiming was sights

[eternal verge]

like TLW from destiny

it would’ve been cracked

just saying

[pastel yew]

honestly if they gave the cowboy revolver more reserve ammo

[indigo lark]

Mk x has better damage at further ranges thouugh right

[pastel yew]

and made its accuracy in fanning less dogshit

it'd be real good

dont all las weapons have reverse damage drop off?

except the helbores

except 2 of the 3 hellbores... or the inverse... I forget

[eternal verge]

I think it should be pinpoint accurate right cause you want the fast fire rate to chain weakspots

[pastel yew]

yeah exactly

it just feels so unwieldy

worth it for the cool but it's pretty weak

[frail skiff]

Which could be considered the best mk for the Devil's Claw sword?

[pastel yew]

mk4 probably

[eternal verge]

actually wanna know why it sucks

[pastel yew]

has overhead on heavy1

[eternal verge]

you don’t spin it

you should spin it when you pull it out

[pastel yew]

trueee

[eternal verge]

or like when you reload

[pastel yew]

animation dif

[eternal verge]

Reminds me of how in Helldivers if you hold inspect with the revolver you do a looping spin animation

more games should have funny details like that

[pastel yew]

I just want fatshark to give these weapons some love

we've not had a big balance pass in ages

I love that they buffed the thunderhammer in the same patch they gave zealots the dueling sword which is literally just the thunderhammer but better and with less boss damage

[eternal verge]

they knew what they were doing with duelling sword the rapier was meta in vermintide too

[pastel yew]

I imagine they just

didnt know what they were doing both times tbh

fatshark not learning from a previous title seems to be the meta

[austere mica]

They felt shit to fire without it

They actually had no recoil to begin with but FS thought they felt super weird to shoot so they added recoil

[pastel yew]

would have been better if they'd added some other kinda feedback but

at least the recoil on all the las weapons is minimal

I do wish the hipfire on the infantry lasguns was better though

[celest rock]

This is really rather depressing. I've finally been giving the Agripinaa a go and I love how it handles

Its just kinda... lacking

[cyan verge]

lol

yeah...

it's fine to plink with on lower difficulties tho

if you like using it

[austere mica]

Stat card damage is never accurate

Agri can hit 2 shot BPs with standard and 1 shot with slugs fairly easily

[pastel yew]

the agri does suffer in some ways though right?

I think the othe shotties get a pellet count increase while ads

against unyielding

where this one doesnt

[celest rock]

I was jamming it on auric damn. And it was working, but it felt like it took more work to make it work

[celest rock]

What like the Kantrael?

[austere mica]

Min pellet count table be apon ye

[pastel yew]

yee the kantrael or .. accatran?

fucking names

[austere mica]

I just ignore them

[pastel yew]

but for whatever reason the agrip is left out in the cold

[austere mica]

Lawbringer was peak

and now it has to come from the same forge world

as the fucking revolver

[pastel yew]

lawbringer is a way cooler name fr

[celest rock]

Wow. Ok then. So if I wanna run shotty it's the dragons breath, not agri

[pastel yew]

shame it's kinda shit

compared to the other options it feels meh

the alt fire is fun with manstopper for sheer gore value but thats about it

the dragons breath shotty is probably the best of the lot

[austere mica]

It can get pretty good consistent clear with alt spam

[pastel yew]

the breath shot can two hit sniper at any range, it has infinite cleave too

[austere mica]

Also best way to do the MF penance

[celest rock]

So dragons breath with manstopper seems funny

[pastel yew]

I've not got one rolled up yet but I do wanna see how much a crit shot does with the special ammo + flechette

[somber axle]

Agri's biggest benefit over the other two is funny bolt action rifle gameplay because the slug can kill Crushers in a few shots and staggers them too

[pastel yew]

already has infinite cleave so you dont actually need it

manstopper still helps on the regular shot though

[celest rock]

So scattershot and maybe flechette

[somber axle]

But like if you just bring a good can opener melee then there's no need to rely on the slug and the TTK isn't that good even if it can bully Crushers

[pastel yew]

manstopper still helps with regular fire mode as its only the special that has infinite cleave

ye

[celest rock]

It is funny to put a slug into a bulwarks shield and stagger it

[somber axle]

Zarona Shotgun is funny for just instantly deleting hordes with the special shot if you use it with the right set up though

[pastel yew]

the slug being 100% hipfire accurate is

so fucking stupid, but so fun

I do like that weapon a lot but

it would have been better if it only fired slugs

[celest rock]

All slug agri would be hot

[pastel yew]

fr

but we cant have nice things

not allowed

[cyan verge]

me I just want a chunky pump action shotgun

[hallow drift]

Over under DB variant that fires exclusively slugs

[cyan verge]

not this stupid autoshotgun thing

[hallow drift]

When

[pastel yew]

yeah something with more OOMPH

[hallow drift]

I want the TOZ in Darktide dammit

[pastel yew]

only if the db slugs are also 100% hipfire accurate

for double the fun

[somber axle]

There's a meme somewhere about how the prior Boltgun stagger breakpoint to open a Bulwark shield in one shot requires >77% Collateral stat, Exe Stance active, Pinning Fire at max stacks and a Combat Stim (which is a lot of work to say it STILL takes at minimum 2 shots because you need 1 prior shot to stagger a crowd for Pinning Fire)

ALTERNATIVELY

Agri Shotgun Slug go boom

[pastel yew]

the boltgun is fucked for opening shields

[celest rock]

I was running the doom shotty on a stealth vet build, but then I took a few months off and now I suck

[pastel yew]

it sometimes just

[cyan verge]

a lot of shooters from the early 2000s and late 90s, all kind tried to outdo one another by having 'the most satisfying shotgun' which was a trend started with doom, it is a tradition that has sadly fallen by the wayside

[pastel yew]

doesnt

[somber axle]

Boltgun can still open shields fine afaik but you need 2 shots and Exe Stance

[pastel yew]

doom eternal wins for most satisfying shotgun though

that or the one from cyberpunk

[somber axle]

Without Exe Stance or Pinning Fire stacks (and if low Collateral stat) you could take 5-6+ shots to open one Bulwark shield

[celest rock]

Maybe I'll go back to that build.

[somber axle]

Boltgun just has really funny stagger interactions with Bulwarks and benefits so much from Exe Stance on more than just the usual kill breakpoints

[pastel yew]

boltgun exec stance is also just

one of the most fun builds in the game

[somber axle]

Yeah it's really fun and surprisingly strong

[pastel yew]

the full auto accuracy is so nice

[somber axle]

Exe Stance magdump full auto into a boss weak point

[celest rock]

I will say after taking a while off, damnation feels a L O T more crowded

[pastel yew]

dude tell me about it

I feel so washed up now

it probably doesnt help that I've only been using new weapons since coming back like the chainaxe, combat blade, relic blade but

[wintry wren]

So much variety

[pastel yew]

god damn

[wintry wren]

[pastel yew]

i think almost every death I've had recently has been grab attack related... mutant grabs me, suddenly 2 flamers. chaos spawn grabs me, three gunners ready to rock my shit while I'm held in a forever animation

[celest rock]

I was talking about rounding a corner in regular ass damnation and finding a dozen crushers and a wall of gunners

Like, hi guys. I clearly interrupted a meeting

I'll leave

[wintry wren]

I usually get gunners and more gunners

😔

[pastel yew]

the spawns definitely feel different

tox bombers, crushers, and snipers

all seem way more common

which is good

but god damn every fight has kobe in the background lobbing tox nades

[wintry wren]

My favorite so far was watching them lob that from behind a wall. That we can't get to. Multiple times

[pastel yew]

yeah someone in her told me their grenades have more bounces

[wintry wren]

🥹

[pastel yew]

which is why it always seems they can get the most nutty throws

itll go over something and bounce off several objects to land perfectly

[dry cloak]

Yes

[wintry wren]

You one those high walls that enemies can spawn behind? That wall. No nutty bounces required. They just yeet

[cyan verge]

bombers are sometimes extremely toxic

[sick sluice]

precision bombers

[cyan verge]

sometimes they're just like they walk right into view and are like GRENADE!!! then very slowly ready while you're just looking at them like okay 1 sec then I'll be with you

[sick sluice]

darktides true artillery

[cyan verge]

sometimes they are like, they do some crazy AI bullshit that they lob like up, through a gap, into a window and land it on the ground on the floor beneath you

and it's like yo what

[sick sluice]

they're trying to get a mlg cod killcam

i get it

[dry cloak]

Fuck my school is changing ibto fucking aperature science

[sick sluice]

10 bounces, nice

[regal belfry]

look out for the moondust and neurotoxins

and remember the cake is a lie

[regal belfry]

they are silly

[cyan verge]

archaic meme

[dry cloak]

You dont have to remind me i played my (now classic) games

[paper trellis]

Tbf valve games age really well especially portal

[regal belfry]

uses portal turret in bastion

[paper trellis]

There's still nothing else like it

And the coop in 2 is fun

[regal belfry]

hmmm momentum puzzles

[dry cloak]

The hallmark of really good game

[paper trellis]

Am I unaware of a game with similar mechanics to portal?

[regal belfry]

they avoid 3 like a plague though

[paper trellis]

Yeah. Half life alyx was cheeky af

[bitter turtle]

What would win

A .75 caliber hand crafted automatic gun made for superhumans that fires explosive rounds

some psyker waving her hands around

[dry cloak]

There are rumors that halflife 3 is on the works

Also have you seen valves new moba?

Deadlock

[paper trellis]

From what I heard alyx didn't really progress the story meaningfully

[dry cloak]

Its halflife 1.5

[paper trellis]

Oh, makes sense

[regal belfry]

there are always rumors and trust me they find a other name

[keen skiff]

whats a good replacement for both barrels

[paper trellis]

There have been rumors that weren't just memes since like 2010

[regal belfry]

looks at half life 2 episodes

[dry cloak]

There were supposed to be 4 episodes

[worldly spruce]

the technology just isn't there yet

[regal belfry]

i know only 2

[dry cloak]

Yep

[dry cloak]

Because there are 2

[paper trellis]

Lfd2 plays really well too. I played it last year with my ex

[bitter turtle]

Replace terrifying barrage first

But manstopper is good

[dry cloak]

L4d2?

[paper trellis]

Left 4 dead 2

[regal belfry]

zombie game from valve

[keen skiff]

replace that with what would u say?

[dry cloak]

I know

[regal belfry]

i am waiting for kf3

[dry cloak]

Bill is the best

[bitter turtle]

Manstopper

[paper trellis]

Killing floor was valve?

[keen skiff]

what about both barrels?

[regal belfry]

nope is zombie game though

[paper trellis]

Ahh

[regal belfry]

with specials and elites

[bitter turtle]

You can keep it

I run n gun on mine though

But both barrels is fine

[paper trellis]

Ngl, worried what will happen when gabe passes

[bitter turtle]

Scattershot works if you are not using WS

[paper trellis]

Man legitimately is the saint of gaming

[bitter turtle]

I don't understand why you wouldn't but, you know

[dry cloak]

He has people picked out

[keen skiff]

thanks plookie

[paper trellis]

Oh, that's reassuring

I hope one day the deus ex ip gets bought from squeenix. It deserves so much better

Killed such an important series for gaming history so they could make marvel shovelware that died a few months later

[bitter turtle]

Square Enix killed one of my favorite franchises during covid

The team and fans still keep it alive sorta but the game is ded

[paper trellis]

Which franchise is that?

[bitter turtle]

Thanks john finalfantasy

Toji no Miko

Doubt you've heard of it

[paper trellis]

I haven't no

[cyan verge]

oh I thought you were talking about FINAL FANTASY XIV Online

thanks Dawntrail

[cyan verge]

legitimate concern at this point

I am sure valve will continue to remain a private company and things will be perfectly fine

[bitter turtle]

no but xiv is dead to me since post msq EW anyway

[hallow drift]

Do y’all think Robin will become the new messiah if Gabe passes?

Also woah, HL:A is already 4 years old…

[cyan verge]

understandable

[young kite]

tryina get me a nice plasma gun, stats and their impact is still pretty nebulous to me

any thoughts on;
DAMG: 80
AMMO: 80
THRR: 80
CRGR: 80
STPP: 60

[tall torrent]

No

[regal belfry]

i think i have 68thrr and 72crgr

[young kite]

hm

gambling time

[tall torrent]

If u don’t have like several million dockets ready, u can dump thermal resist

Charge rate makes for a “better feeling gun”

[regal belfry]

i got mine random from armory seen it with those stats and got it

[young kite]

gotten lucky so far

gotten some close calls

[cyan verge]

@tired egret

[frail skiff]

Is the plasma any good for havoc or will the poor ammo eco gimp it before the missions is half over?

[real sorrel]

pr much anything works up to havoc 20

i had arun with dbl vet, one with recon for gunner sniping and one with plasma, the plasma was melting mix hordes like paper, worked really well

[cyan verge]

it can work in higher tiers probably but idk

depends on your team

if they're all psykers then yes

[frail skiff]

Heh

[regal belfry]

we have plasma without ammo at home

or not

[cyan verge]

no they're like

"we have flamer at home without ammo"

and then kill, everything

you just exist to kill specials so take whatever the heck you want that kills and efficiently

[regal belfry]

point at voidstrike staff

[young kite]

i assume its best for higher dif because i was always kindof a recon man and i only recently bothered with maelstroms and havoc and just saw too much carapace there to live

or atleast that's what all the yummy tubers who help me not have to think for myself tell me

[bitter turtle]

guns are not supposed to kill carapace usually

you stab them

there is like

3 weapons

that dont do carapace well

among melee options

and by well i mean u literally 2 shot them in under 1 second for most weapons

att his point

[young kite]

at my current level i can collat one tap some crushers with a crit

dunno if that spill over into havoc quite yet cause im still levelin the sucker

i know the strat is to stabtech dueling sword but its just slow enough to make me grimace

[dry cloak]

Devil claw,heavy sword, and illisi force cant do carapace good

[regal belfry]

thats why we use deimos instead

crusher reel after deimos stab to head

[dry cloak]

I use illisi because i absolutely despise deimos.moveset

Gonna get ds4 on psyker

I think dueling swords should have stayed psyker exclusive

[regal belfry]

i used them a bit before on psyker but i preffer deimos

[dry cloak]

I prefer new 2h psyker swords

[young kite]

think id contemplate quitting if vet ever lost it

[dry cloak]

Why?

[regal belfry]

that was before it become available to all classes magister

now i run mostly fgs mk6

[young kite]

im sure the stats are so off meta for my particular one but its always been by far the easiest melee to make the class work for me

[dry cloak]

Vet has enough armor deletion devices

[young kite]

personal preference at this point

[dry cloak]

I played before un&l

[regal belfry]

pulls out rashad caxe and mk3 powersword

[dry cloak]

Yup

I started before penance rework

[regal belfry]

i started last december, got it september but in december i got a new pc where it ran smoothly

[young kite]

makes sense vet didn't always have it though

kinda aesthetically and mechanically the blacksheep

[dry cloak]

Ds are so good because they were balanced around psyker being not the best in melee

[regal belfry]

tried the folding shovel it is ok

[dry cloak]

Folding shovels are good

I like the ogryn one but not the vet ones

[young kite]

gave shovel 3 matches cause they rereleased dkok

[regal belfry]

i mean you don't want to use thrust wirh them

[young kite]

did not enjoy the visit

[cyan verge]

I have heard that theory before but I think even on psyker it is the best option, no?

[regal belfry]

maybe uncanny and over blessing

[regal belfry]

he ment it was balanced on psyker cause casters suck at meele

[dry cloak]

It had fierce competition with deimos for armor killing

[regal belfry]

deimos has better horde clear but less mobility

[dry cloak]

Yes

Deimos or ds is good pair to flame staff

[cyan verge]

the thing is though

how many psykers run the deimos in havoc now

I would argue the DS has always been OP, the other classes just make it extra OP

[dry cloak]

Game is not balanced around havoc

[cyan verge]

no, but my point is if you want to like win, you take the DS

[dry cloak]

I dont and wont play havoc so i can play with whatever

[cyan verge]

well you're not really missing out

aurics more fun

[dry cloak]

And the cosmetics are noce but not needed for me

[cyan verge]

I would step in for the cosmetics then step out gg

[dry cloak]

I have my builds clothed thematically with base game cosmetics so yeah i dont need them

[young kite]

i was kinda bummed with havoc, i think a damnation maelstrom is pretty peak darktide

but theres shit i want in there

[dry cloak]

I dont have the A.S.S title but thats about it

[frank ledge]

[dry cloak]

Tanner is wrong

[frank ledge]

No

[dry cloak]

So when he is roight enlighten me

[frank ledge]

Tanner is Right because tanner is reformed

[dry cloak]

Since when

From what i see he is still a bitchy boy kisser

[dry cloak]

Examples please

[elder fiber]

No it didn't, it had psykers in discord constantly asking "why would I ever use deimos/knife/X when ds4 exists "

[dry cloak]

Because you can

[elder fiber]

That's true, you can use anything you want. But it wasn't balanced on the class that just could just kill almost everything without melee anyways

[dry cloak]

Yes

Best anti armor is bb

[frank ledge]

Ogryn bad needs buff

[dry cloak]

Thats not his take

[frank ledge]

A week ago he apologised for tier list

[dry cloak]

I donr follow him

[frank ledge]

I can fetch you steam discussion baout why the ogryn nerf bad

[dry cloak]

It wasnt a nerf

[frank ledge]

goalpost moving

[dry cloak]

How many times we need to tell you its buff overall

[steady wolf]

Only nerfed one use case slightly which is kickback on some build

[cyan verge]

ogryn needs immunity to hounds because it looks silly when they're fighting a dog

[dry cloak]

Yea would be nice

[steady wolf]

For real, especially with all the silent hounds recently 😭

[cyan verge]

"help me sah I can't get this overly large dobermann off me even though I'm like twice the size"

[steady wolf]

Twice? Ogryns weigh 2,200 pounds. Dog is like 200 max

[dry cloak]

Ogryns hands are strong enough to crush its skull

[dry cloak]

500kg is the low end

[regal belfry]

cc immunity on bullrush

[frank ledge]

Chargegryn rumbla builds are now suboptimal

Ogryn needed a talent fix, like fnp, not a move

[steady wolf]

God you're telling me, I'm running charge + rumbla

[frank ledge]

Can't pick big explosion

Which means epicenter rumbla worse for chargegryn

[cyan verge]

rumbler seems reaaaally bad imo

[dry cloak]

The information that ogryn needs a general perk tree overhaul is long known

[dry cloak]

Because it is

[steady wolf]

I don't use it more than like 6 shots a mission and it does fuck all

[frank ledge]

Ogryn in general is bad

[dry cloak]

Now youre going into dangerous territory

[steady wolf]

In a few places sure but as a whole he ain't terrible

[faint beacon]

Wild they make one of the most iconic Ogryn weapons

Unreasonably mid

[regal belfry]

uses heavy stubber instead

[frank ledge]

Weakest class of the 4 (and still not as bad as martyrdom zealot)

[steady wolf]

Just revert the 3 rumbler nerfs and boss explosive resist

[dry cloak]

Now a reasonable take

[frank ledge]

and the FNP nerf

And fix massacre

[faint beacon]

Hey no worries we both actively get kicked from havocs

Veteran 🤝 Ogryn

[frank ledge]

And remove shitty impact node after rock

[winter grove]

Martyrdom zealot at least has rashad

[tall torrent]

Most iconic are prob grenade gauntlet, ripper gun and heavy stubber

[steady wolf]

tbh, I use rock and feel a bit sad cuz of talent after diff

[frank ledge]

Ogryn has Borovian

[winter grove]

Ogryn doesn't

[faint beacon]

You either Chorus Zealot or Bubble Psyker or you get beamed

[frank ledge]

Borovian>Rashad

[cyan verge]

it is very funny that the rumbler should be a frag basically but it explodes like a little puff of smoke on the ground

[steady wolf]

I'd say kickback, rumbler, and GG.

[winter grove]

Ah yes, pickaxes

[steady wolf]

Can opener ripper tho

[cyan verge]

the karsolas is the best pickaxe I think

[winter grove]

Literally only good ogryn weapon family

[bitter turtle]

i didnt know illsi force sword is a vet weapon

[cyan verge]

the kickback is very good

and, the achlys twin stubber is good at killing specials

[frank ledge]

For big damage branx
For utility middle ground Borovian
For mixed horde clear karsolas

[cyan verge]

and bosses

[faint beacon]

It’s cause they’re horrifically tuned to be too powerful that they make every other option

Meh

Unless it’s like shield

[frank ledge]

Don't forget shield

[bitter turtle]

you dont have to do difficult missions

[bitter turtle]

25 is the most difficult you have to do

and its not that hard

[cyan verge]

ugh finally

[bitter turtle]

just spam 50 missions aside from that in other lobbies

and you got your cosmetic

[faint beacon]

40

[bitter turtle]

for cosmetic

[faint beacon]

Forgetting the title

[bitter turtle]

you dont need 40

[frank ledge]

You can pay people to carry you in 40

For title

[faint beacon]

Havoc Exemplar

[bitter turtle]

idk about that

[frank ledge]

It's running at 15€ atm

[faint beacon]

That’s disgusting

[regal belfry]

still like the mk3 bully club and the mk5 shovel

[steady wolf]

Immaculate, fatshark themselves must be doing it at those prices

[bitter turtle]

they play the game for you or drag your dead body over finish line

well, i guess if you have a solid enough team

3 man is a thing

[faint beacon]

I’ve played 31+

Veteran is like barely optimal

Barely

[bitter turtle]

nah

veteran is important

[frank ledge]

Veteran matters

[swift river]

Question, what's our thoughts on the Autopistol?

[bitter turtle]

other classes have to give up stuff play guns

[faint beacon]

You exist to VOC spam and shredder spam and serve as ammo

That’s it

[bitter turtle]

i dont even voc

[cyan verge]

btw I was wondering how this works, and it turns out I think it only counts you putting down a crate, and that's it

[steady wolf]

Shovel easily one shotting crushers is insane, makes me feel bad taking knife tbh. (can also one shot bulwark over their shield)

[regal belfry]

voc and smokes

[bitter turtle]

lol

[faint beacon]

You’re throwing with smokes

[cyan verge]

in havoc smokes are good

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

[tall torrent]

Smoke has value in a team without bubble

[bitter turtle]

scoreboard with infil vet

[faint beacon]

Shredders deleting entire hordes with demo team

[young kite]

harder is funner

[bitter turtle]

vet is the simplest solution to gunners

[young kite]

to like, a point

[faint beacon]

And you instantly getting it back

[regal belfry]

how is exe stance with smoke?

[bitter turtle]

ogryn is the one thats

eh

idk

its not terrible

[faint beacon]

I mean Zealot and Psyker can do that also

[bitter turtle]

but you could do 2 zealots and just rotate chorus

[faint beacon]

🤷‍♂️

[bitter turtle]

they can kill gunners but they do it more poorly

[faint beacon]

Not really

[bitter turtle]

and then they wont be bringing the main point ppl bring them for

[faint beacon]

Psyker has infinite ammo vs you

[bitter turtle]

and what

[steady wolf]

Throwing knives..

[cyan verge]

psyker has to bring inferno staff

[bitter turtle]

left click surge staff spam?

[faint beacon]

That and if they’re running Dome (should be)

[winter grove]

Just bring hellbores or ilas 2b

[bitter turtle]

instead of inferno staff

[frank ledge]

Vet:

• Smokes can break enemy pathing to certain spots, which can be extremely handy on top of budget tauntgryn
• VoC
• Survivealist can make ammo last longer
• Marking allows several breakpoints on most classes to return
• Power sword is great for high mass hordes
• Plasma/recon are decently ammo efficient, depends if your psyker is running anti elite or anti shooter

[faint beacon]

Literally any staff except inferno

Or use BB

[bitter turtle]

im not saying its impossible but its way slower

[winter grove]

Good luck running out with THOSE

[bitter turtle]

bbing them one at a time

instead of just

you know

shooting them

[tall torrent]

BB is resource free in killing gunners

Besides pus

[cyan verge]

this is true, but

it's kinda slow unless you have EP

... I guess it's havoc, so it's just slow in general

[faint beacon]

Combustion literally setting hordes nearby on fire also

[bitter turtle]

it is, but are you really gonna sit around and bb 30 hardened gunners and reapers

[tall torrent]

Not exactly because you’re gonna have ability spam very often

[faint beacon]

Like Psyker is just better

[tall torrent]

So the BB faster cast buff is up significantly more often

[bitter turtle]

the psyker build being passed around in the psyker chat dont even take the ability cast buff

[tall torrent]

Psyker is easily best class in havoc tho

[bitter turtle]

it is

but i dont think 2 psykers is that useful

compared to just going psyker vet

[winter grove]

Good thing I don't play havoc

[tall torrent]

I think veteran ≈ zealot, they just do different things

[bitter turtle]

2 zealots is useful but they can just replace the ogryn with a zealot

[winter grove]

Mainly because I can't find people

[faint beacon]

I’d rather have 2 psykers than a veteran

Means more domes

Easier to push forward

[frank ledge]

Tauntgryn is invaluable

[winter grove]

4 psykers

Go big or go home

[frank ledge]

Just having Ogrynheimer for those situations can save runs

[faint beacon]

Ogryn having literally 1 shield build that looks like you’re fucking throwing but it’s the only way to play havoc extremely effectively

[frank ledge]

but if those situations never arrive, Ogryn useless

[bitter turtle]

is this like "hypothetically easier to push forward" or "i actually did 40 with 2 dome psykers and one BB'd every single gunner"

cause dome lasts 6 seconds

you need to kill stuff in 6 seconds before it goes down

in the worst situations even peeking will make u lose half your hp

[faint beacon]

Rotating domes and warp charges?

Hello?

[bitter turtle]

yes

and that's slower

[winter grove]

Orrrrrrr

[bitter turtle]

than just having the vet kill them all in 1 dome duration lol

[winter grove]

4 psykers

[bitter turtle]

or at least enough that you can chorus through

[cyan verge]

yeah I agree vet has a place as the one vet in the team

to just shoot all ranged enemies in the face

[bitter turtle]

like yes

im not saying its impsosbile

to sit around

[regal belfry]

which weapon do vet use for havoc?

[bitter turtle]

BB and surge left clicking them

[faint beacon]

Yea because waiting for veteran to drop them in 8 shots cause it’s pus hardened will be interesting watching

[cyan verge]

shredder autopistol

[bitter turtle]

i just dont see the point

[bitter turtle]

if i was that slow how did i do 1.4m compared to my team lol

my psyker was good too

[winter grove]

Imba

[tall torrent]

Veteran havoc starter pack

[bitter turtle]

that run was clean af

[winter grove]

Laspistol?

[bitter turtle]

ghost and infernus

[tall torrent]

Ghost + infernus

[faint beacon]

It’s more like the pistol and Bistol and you don’t even use the Bistol actively

[cyan verge]

this is good, but I still don't see the autopistol here... I think it's missing

[winter grove]

Oh right

[regal belfry]

huh i thought normal bolter instead of bp

[faint beacon]

It’s just a fucking slap on to make shredders better

[regal belfry]

shredder need buff or rework

[cyan verge]

I assume bolt pistol gets a blessing or something that boltgun doesn't

so it better

[faint beacon]

*nerf

[bitter turtle]

also

[faint beacon]

They need a nerf

[bitter turtle]

im pretty sure

surge BB psyker is going to be completely useless in a melee elite ambush

what are you gonna do

stagger 1 crusher?

all u can do is take out ds4

[tall torrent]

Pretty much

[cyan verge]

just use your DSIV 4head

[winter grove]

2

[bitter turtle]

meanwhile vet can just throw 2 nade and not have to do cringe builds to kill gunners

[faint beacon]

Telling me they aren’t running like fucking trauma or purgatus lmao

[frank ledge]

Counter argument

TRAUMA STAFF

[faint beacon]

Literally

[bitter turtle]

if you are running trauma or purg then your staff cant kill gunners

[cyan verge]

what are you talking about

can you please use the actual names

[regal belfry]

trauma(voidblast) staff is funny stagger

[cyan verge]

'purgatus' this and 'trauma' that

[faint beacon]

And we loop back into brain burst

[bitter turtle]

again

u cannot tell me

that is faster

[winter grove]

Trauma
Purgatus
Surge
Void bubble

[faint beacon]

That or trauma staggers them

[bitter turtle]

than a gun

[faint beacon]

Again

[frank ledge]

You can suppress and knock them down, which is better than struggling to kill them at ranfe

[bitter turtle]

if only you could get that close sometimes lol

[faint beacon]

Veteran doesn’t have massive value outside of shredders and Surv and VoC

[frank ledge]

Trauma staffers finally have a place

[bitter turtle]

then it wouldnt even be a problem

[winter sluice]

buff exe stance plz

[bitter turtle]

just chorus through to stagger

[regal belfry]

we use the old ones purgatus is inferno and trauma is voidblast

[frank ledge]

No

[bitter turtle]

idk

[winter grove]

They're more distinct and psykers just got too used to them lmao

[bitter turtle]

if you think BBing them one at a time is faster than just shooting a bunch, putting infernus 12 stack on them and letting them die in a few seconds

that is dumb

[regal belfry]

wished voidstrike had different name

[cyan verge]

idk what your argument is, "vet is bad because it ONLY gives everyone massive gold toughness on a 30s ish cooldown if not shorter and has great uptime and shredder grenades that stagger and kill everything particularly hordes and while saving their ranged slot for a weapon that can kill gunners and ranged enemies and so on really well even if they have pus hardened thanks to DoTs from infernus and such, BUT ASIDE FROM THAT VET IS TERRIBLE"

[bitter turtle]

and ghost guns dont even need the dome rotation to just stand outside and tank all the shots lol

[cyan verge]

like what is this

[tall torrent]

The biggest difference vet can feel is

Veteran has no big opening ability to dictate team movements

[faint beacon]

Soulblaze and besides havoc modifiers should nerf DOT

[cyan verge]

vet can only VoC and hope 4 the best

[tall torrent]

You move with bubble/chorus basically

[cyan verge]

yeah, zealots make the plays, psykers give you shelter

[frank ledge]

Like Ogryn, it's disinformation by bad faith actors, reddit and copetubers

[faint beacon]

It’s supposed to be hard and DOT innately turns that off

[bitter turtle]

thats why i dont run voc tbh

[tall torrent]

You should play h40s first

[cyan verge]

I should

[bitter turtle]

its just a bad chorus in h40

[cyan verge]

but I haven't seen any lobbies

[tall torrent]

VoC’s gold toughness goes down in like
0.5s from a single stalker burst

[winter grove]

Ah yes

[bitter turtle]

infil to do events makes runs way faster when you dont have do shit like to fight the entire room in gloriana 1st event

[winter grove]

The only thing stopping people from havocing

People not playing it

[cyan verge]

ironic...

[tall torrent]

You should at least try 30+

[frank ledge]

Racism*

[cyan verge]

I have done 28

[bitter turtle]

28 is not the same

[frank ledge]

Find lobby, Ogryn, rejected

[cyan verge]

no it's not I'm sure

[bitter turtle]

i just did 26 with dual shotty and ds4

while suicide charging into every line

lol

[cyan verge]

wow

[bitter turtle]

for fun

[cyan verge]

absurd

[bitter turtle]

just to help some rando group

[cyan verge]

well I am free of grinding rolling steel so

[winter grove]

That just sounds like average auric

[elder fiber]

I legit haven't been able to get my foot in a 30+ lobby lmao

[regal belfry]

good the classes i like to play most are good in havoc

[bitter turtle]

it felt mostly like a normal auric mael tbh

[elder fiber]

so rn I'm grinding out the penances til I can just host my way into 30+

[frank ledge]

Ogryn

[cyan verge]

oh good

excellent

[tall torrent]

It basically is
Except shooters can destroy ur toughness

[bitter turtle]

time to grind it yourself :^)

[cyan verge]

nah lol

[regal belfry]

the order is psyker>zealot>vet>ogryn

[bitter turtle]

or tbh just look for ppl in discord lfg if you really cant find anyone

i dont think

its right to order them in power like that

honestly

[regal belfry]

ogryn feels clunky

[frank ledge]

discord lfg can be quite bad

[bitter turtle]

like as if having 2 psykers instead of 1 psyker 1 zealot is better

(its not)

[tall torrent]

I think it’s just psyker > veteran ≈ zealot > ogryn

[bitter turtle]

even then i dont really agree

[tall torrent]

Ogryn is kind of fine

[regal belfry]

it is my playing preference

[bitter turtle]

i would rather have 1 psyker 1 zealot

not 2 psyker

dome doesnt help on melee elite ambushes

smite can kinda do something but its meh

[frank ledge]

Trauma does

[tall torrent]

I just mean individual value to team

[regal belfry]

shriek trauma?

[tall torrent]

Psyker kit is absurdly strong

[bitter turtle]

not as good as chorus imo

you're getting hit from the front and back

in these ambushes

and both are equally dangerous

[winter grove]

So the only difference

[frank ledge]

Trauma ur 🦶

[winter grove]

Was that shooters finally have bullets

Instead of peashooters

[bitter turtle]

nah

they can aim now too

over ridiculous distances

the irony of it all

[frank ledge]

and u have less toughness

and hp

[bitter turtle]

is that among all the gun wielding enemies

snipers are now the weakest one

by far

gunners have the same range and delete u instead of just doing some dmg

[cyan verge]

rip snipers

[frank ledge]

melee snipers are more dangerous than range

[bitter turtle]

that and its easy to dodge snipers and all

even slide spamming is not gonna save you under heavy fire

[bitter turtle]

in that sense yeah its fair

inferno staff is more integral than flamer and chorus/dome are both important

but i think each class brings their own strengths and its better than just doubling up on thes ame one multiple times

except ogryn

[winter grove]

Fatshark reminding us that lasgun easily dismembers people by making the shooters fucking op

[bitter turtle]

its alright but a second zealot feels better to me

or psyker ofc

i just really like 2x chorus rotations though

[winter grove]

So let me get this straight

[outer geyser]

Ogryns can do a LOT of CC tho, not to mention their pushes can be suuuuuper good.

[winter grove]

Zealot and Psyker are basically the meta picks

Veteran can do alright

Ogryn is yet again the dogshit class

[bitter turtle]

i also think veteran is best to have on team still

instead of doubling up on the other two

and ogryn CC's yes, and i think thats the problem

every single class CC's, so you can replace it with another one like zealot chorus

but they dont do a whole lot besides that?

[winter grove]

Ogryn was an expert at CC

Then everyone got power swords

[bitter turtle]

idk thats just my anecdotal feelings on the runs i had

[regal belfry]

runs around with fgs

[outer geyser]

Ogryn needs some work, yeah.
Upside tho, they aren't as tiring on the wrist as m1-spam zealot.

[winter grove]

Technically a power sword

[outer geyser]

I prooobably should change that zealot build to something more comfortable...

[bitter turtle]

i mean i guess maybe the problem is ogryn's specialty was being tanky as fuck

[winter grove]

Yup

[bitter turtle]

but now there is no such thing as being tanky as fuck

w/e im gonna go draw instead of running my mouth and rustling people's jimmies with my opinions

[frank ledge]

Fnp still works for havok

And so does toughness regen

[outer geyser]

Hopefully that means he'll get a secondary specialisation.

Meanwhile though, tauntgryn can be nice. Stroooong pushes and taunts essentially meaning packs of ragers, maulers and crushers are pathetically trivial and safe.

[frank ledge]

only issue havok anti shooter/horde are better covered by zealot and or psyker

[winter grove]

Ogryn is a tanky crowd control expert
Now everyone can do better crowd control
Being tanky is a myth

This is why ogryn fell off hard

[frank ledge]

Tauntgryn is still great for elite ambush but racism is widespread in party finder

[winter grove]

Lore accurate

[outer geyser]

Outside Havoc though, Ogryn's still a joy to have since you can actually be tanky there.

[winter grove]

Yuh

[frank ledge]

4 Ogryns completed Havok day 2 as well

so like lmao

[winter grove]

Havoc is payday gameplay

Auric/Auric maelstrom is darktide

[outer geyser]

Havoc while Death Row plays.

Also, Death Row is a badass track that for whatever reason isn't in official pd2 ost last I checked.

[winter grove]

Better payday gameplay than payday 3

Lmfao

Havoc is just VT2 cataclysm all over again

Except it's free now

Thank god

[outer geyser]

Oh gods, pd3 is a disaster, yeah.

Attrition where you're punished for existing just doesn't feel good.

That's how you get bathroom strats.

[regal belfry]

do you not mean weaves?

[winter grove]

oh right

weaves

Again reminding that nobody plays them

and everyone forgot about their existence