veteran-class

[true umbra]

I suppose I should just download the mods

[jaunty sphinx]

One +3 stamina and two +17% toughness for me

[frail skiff]

Tripple 17% with 2 gunner resist and a sniper

+5% Tougness for all 3

And +4% to combat ability regen

[true umbra]

Does any other melee weapon have the wide swing like the shovel?

[jaunty sphinx]

Plenty

[true umbra]

The PS and shovel having the wide cleave is the main reason I chose them

[jaunty sphinx]

You'll wanna look for weapons that do vanguard strikes

[shadow dagger]

there's always personal experience

most weapons have both wide swipes and single target attacks

[jaunty sphinx]

Mhm

[shadow dagger]

you just need to find the melee combo that leads to them

[true umbra]

That’s my issue, I usually dislike most alt attacks

Like I hate the knives (personally)

And I dislike most of the “chain” weapons

[jaunty sphinx]

I looooove the chainsword

[frail skiff]

Rashad is my favorite melee

[true umbra]

I enjoy the rev when I’m fighting a boss with a shield, but otherwise I hate being animation locked

[shadow dagger]

alt attacks?

I don't think I mentioned special actions

[true umbra]

The mb5 attack. Not sure what it’s referred to as.

[frail skiff]

I rarely use those attacks anyway

[shadow dagger]

most special actions also dont really interact with melee combos in any real way

[frail skiff]

Outside of CS and PS

[jaunty sphinx]

I looooove my Rashad

I gotta get one for my zealot

[true umbra]

What’s Rashad?

[shadow dagger]

combat axe

[true umbra]

Oh

Interesting

[shadow dagger]

the one with the really flat rectangle y head

[true umbra]

Have not used axes yet

[frail skiff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046912126746374274/1293202529399869572/Rashad.gif?ex=67525275&is=675100f5&hm=345615928b2acb899aca4f7f78ae974f3a537730bd948c770bdfad0c36eff260&=

[true umbra]

I think I tried one of the variations and wasn’t a fan

[jaunty sphinx]

It hits good breakpoints with +unarmored

[shadow dagger]

combat axes suffer really bad if you don't have and use the blessing brutal momentum

[jaunty sphinx]

Mhm

[frail skiff]

^

[jaunty sphinx]

Brutal momentum is their bread and butter

[frail skiff]

Rashad is probably the best jack of all trades melee weapon

[shadow dagger]

unarmored on rashad xd

[jaunty sphinx]

Or was it infested

I can't remember

[shadow dagger]

I think I run carapace as my alt perk

[true umbra]

But also, are you kind of condemned to using plasma gun?

[jaunty sphinx]

No not really

[true umbra]

If you don’t get another player who has some type of armor punch what do you do?

[shadow dagger]

desperado precision strikes covers most of the bromentum bps iirc

[shadow dagger]

in the context of?

of rashad?

[jaunty sphinx]

Use a melee that can armor pierce

[shadow dagger]

or just vet in general

[jaunty sphinx]

Like Rashad or psword or dueling sword

[true umbra]

AM in general. When you can 2 shot a crusher before he even gets in melee distance do you really want to lose that?

[jaunty sphinx]

Crushers aren't as big of an issue unless they're in groups imo

[frail skiff]

1 to 3 crushers are managable

[shadow dagger]

are you at that point yet we haven't really been challenged up to that point other than havoc which I personally haven't played

[frail skiff]

6 on the other hand...

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah

That's when I love having a plasma in my team

[true umbra]

I’ve pushed a few havoc maelstroms and plasma gun seems necessary

And I don’t even like using the thing

[frail skiff]

Isn't Bolter good now?

[shadow dagger]

it's definitely on the higher end of the proverbial tierlist

[jaunty sphinx]

I love bolter

[frail skiff]

Cause I've seen bolter and hardly plasma

[true umbra]

I’d definitely prefer bolter over plasma

[jaunty sphinx]

Bleed bolter is so funny

[true umbra]

But I don’t keep up with meta, I just returned Monday

Last I checked bolter got nerfed and everyone switched to plasma

[jaunty sphinx]

You can also try the revolver, the autogun

[frail skiff]

They buffed it again

[warm vortex]

Bolt Pistol is funny paired with Chainsword i feel like Commisar

[true umbra]

Oh, very interesting

[frail skiff]

Revolver is hilarious

[shadow dagger]

I don't even think plasma is That Good™️ because of what it can do to crushers and armor, it's really what it can do with how much goddamn cleave it has

[true umbra]

My personal favorite weapons are the default lasgun and the recon lasgun.

[jaunty sphinx]

Revolver is the funniest weapon in the game it just deletes shit

[frail skiff]

If you put on a dueling sword you can EMPEROR BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY

[warm vortex]

Revolver makes you feel like you got a Big Iron on your hip

[jaunty sphinx]

It's insane how good the combo is

[frail skiff]

Right?

[jaunty sphinx]

Dueling sword just being the best weapon in the game is really really funny

[frail skiff]

Pair it with Wep spec and always preparied and you never have to reload

Speaking of, you can have the cheasiest double barrel build with that

[crisp cradle]

Anyone know a optimized ”Krieg” build? Shovel + helbore?

[frail skiff]

I don't really use shovel

But I have a cheasy "sniper" build with helbore

[jaunty sphinx]

First thing you should do is install weapon customization mod so the helbore can have a usable sight

[frail skiff]

^

This

[true umbra]

I can’t seem to get a good helbore

[jaunty sphinx]

Don't worry neither can the helbore

[frail skiff]

I have two Hellbores

[true umbra]

If you want to role play kreig you have to just play at a lower level

[wicked epoch]

ok dat waz good

infantry lasgun my beloved

[crisp cradle]

I am doing the special event. Helping dudes in lower levels.

[grand perch]

Nonsense helbores are good weapons

[wicked epoch]

is it normal to have a collection of lasguns

for no reason

its just there

[grand perch]

In real life? Yes

[wicked epoch]

in game

[jaunty sphinx]

Helbore is fine

[wicked epoch]

unfortunately i just have blood angels instead

[wicked epoch]

not as fine as that daemonhost

amirite lads

[frail skiff]

It's the American Cadian way

[wicked epoch]

indeed

[jaunty sphinx]

I have some old lasgun bits lying around in a box somewhere

Otherwise my cadians are already using them

[wicked epoch]

i have like

8 more khorne berzerkers i havent painted

my ass thought

[jaunty sphinx]

I love khorne berserkers

[wicked epoch]

"oh lets do pre heresy scheme"

[jaunty sphinx]

AGONY

[wicked epoch]

lemme dig up some photos

white covers pretty well if i

prime brown, then tan, then bone, then white itself

only takes 5 years

worth it honestly

idk im js so lazy when im not painting loyalist space marines

[frail skiff]

I have two helbores. One has the Exterminatus sight for "big game hunting" across the map and a second one that has basically a 3x red dot on it

[jaunty sphinx]

Real good tbh

[true umbra]

I just snagged the palatine enforcers patrol box

[wicked epoch]

i have no idea how i finished SANGUINIUS and a TRUESCALE TERMINATOR before another khorne berzerker

[wicked epoch]

thanks

[wicked epoch]

nice

you are now in debt

[jaunty sphinx]

I love you 30k would love to find another human being in my area who plays it

[wicked epoch]

you now owe 6000 aquilas to gamers workshop

[wicked epoch]

i cant even play because i buy recasts and 3d prints

people here in the facebook groups are so

elitist and snobby

[true umbra]

Oh yeah big Nono buddy 😂

[jaunty sphinx]

I mean hey, once it's painted no one can know

[true umbra]

They sure ask. lol

[wicked epoch]

grownass men with stable jobs expecting people like me to spend 15k for an army

[true umbra]

People are over critical

[wicked epoch]

1 usd is like 55php, a basic ass infantry box is fuckin like

[true umbra]

Have to form your own little faction

[wicked epoch]

2-3k

[wicked epoch]

the dude i buy my printed models is chill tho, he sells to alot of competitive players its hilarious

[jaunty sphinx]

As someone who buys way too much british plastic army men I respect anyone with a 3d printer

[wicked epoch]

plus its also cooked because i have so many understrength units

because i somehow lost a sanguinary guard, and 2 whole crimson paladins

[wicked epoch]

pretty setup

[jaunty sphinx]

I couldn't tell they were 3d printed from these photos

[wicked epoch]

i just have a messy ass desk

[wicked epoch]

i buy em off a dude on the local shopping app

dude is now officially one of the bros

[wicked epoch]

sanguinius cost me 6usd

[jaunty sphinx]

I think if anyone wouldn't want to play with someone because they're using 3d prints or proxies I doubt they'd be fun to play with in the first place

[wicked epoch]

true

they'll be like "nOoOO yoU nEeEED tO sPenD 15 GRAND"

i am a broke highschooler ffs

[jaunty sphinx]

Just roll the dice nerd

[wicked epoch]

real and true

[frail skiff]

Going on safari in the underhive

[wicked epoch]

driped out

[jaunty sphinx]

LOL

[wicked epoch]

dripped tf out

big game hunter

bro has a skinned mutant in his basement

[unborn lily]

What is the proper dump stat for the Duelling Sword? I got one with 60% in Cleave Damage. Or am I much worse in hordes with this one?

[wicked epoch]

shrug

[jaunty sphinx]

Mobility

[unborn lily]

Yea makes sense

[jaunty sphinx]

60% is the ideal for mobility

Cause then everything else is 80%

[unborn lily]

But is the cleave even good with the duelling sword?

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah

[wicked epoch]

man i wish there was like a way to play with understrengthed units

[frail skiff]

It will make a marvelious trophy!

[unborn lily]

aight ty

[wicked epoch]

turn the ploryn into one of those electric bass things

[jaunty sphinx]

The dump stat for anything is either mobility or defense

[wicked epoch]

make a chaos spawn hide shoe

all of these probably corrupted to hell but its chill

[unborn lily]

I heard that's a truth with some modification though for some weapons

Like the Plasma Gun being optimal at 68% something and the rest in sth else... stuff like that

[jaunty sphinx]

Neat

[frail skiff]

I already have a taxidermied plague ogryn in my mansion's foyer

[unborn lily]

Thermal Resistance I think, you get 8 shots with 68% and no more with 80%

Not sure if that's outdated tho, just sth I read on the forums

[wicked epoch]

beautiful

have an animatronic mauler

and have it do the jailhouse rock dance

[frail skiff]

"Long las" at home

[wicked epoch]

whys it so pretty tho wtf

is your character just a noble who thought it would be funny to go and help the inquisition

that wood grain...

mmmmmmmmmmmm

so pretty...

i wish i had something that pretty

but no

[true umbra]

may have purchased too many cosmetics

[wicked epoch]

i have this used boltgun some dude dropped

[wicked epoch]

too many implies you got extras you aint usin

[true umbra]

👀 maybe...

[wicked epoch]

and that means

gimme your spares

[true umbra]

if only I had more than 5 classes

[wicked epoch]

theres a mod for that

[true umbra]

steel legion got booted as soon as kreig dropped ngl

[frail skiff]

It gets so repetetive up in the spires. I felt that my talents could be put to use and expand my trophy room at the same time

[wicked epoch]

poor felas

[wicked epoch]

captain wolfer is having an aneurysm somewhere rn

[jaunty sphinx]

Just like in real life

[wicked epoch]

lmao

did SL even get their own minis yet

i wouldnt know i dont look at guard

[jaunty sphinx]

They did

[wicked epoch]

when

how long ago

[jaunty sphinx]

Until this edition lmao

You can still get them if gw decides to make them made to order on a whim but otherwise

[frail skiff]

He will look excellent mounted above the fire place

[wicked epoch]

their models look old as hell

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah they're awesome

[wicked epoch]

get rindas helmet while yer at it

[jaunty sphinx]

I love oldhammer

[wicked epoch]

i do too but

the scale diff

thats a big reason why i dont use the truescale terminator alongside my crimson paladins

[jaunty sphinx]

I think it works for guard

[wicked epoch]

shit i painted a 90s space wolf and

it was still shorter

than literally a servitor

[jaunty sphinx]

It's awesome

[wicked epoch]

gave it as a gift to my friend

[true umbra]

Joytoy makes some sick 1/18 scale warhammer figures

[wicked epoch]

guess where the pistol and power fist came from

[wicked epoch]

agree

[true umbra]

Haven’t been able to decide which faction I want yet

But when I do, I’ll buy some

[wicked epoch]

id buy more but

im not so into action figures

i tried repainting the terminator i got

ended up ruining it

still have the veteran i hav

somewhere around here

somewhere

[true umbra]

I don't wargame much anymore

i mostly make diroama's

[wicked epoch]

i wanna make one for a school exhibit

[carmine arrow]

struggling to find a gun that feels worth using over melee, any suggestions

[wicked epoch]

just waiting on when the bastards givr me any sort of material tho

[wicked epoch]

recon las

bolter

uh

what else

idk wdym by worth using over melee

theres like so many uses

[carmine arrow]

Idk its a vague question

[true umbra]

plasma gun, agripinna mkVII, Kantrael MK VII, are my personal favorites

and bolt pistol

[carmine arrow]

Which ones the kantrael again?

[remote sonnet]

Infantry lasgun

[frail skiff]

I have been having fun with the Graia Vigilant Autogun

[wicked epoch]

You are gonna wanna be specific

Like your builds

[true umbra]

this is the main melee i've been using @frail skiff, so I should look for an axe?

[wicked epoch]

shovel

[frail skiff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1314184978216517675/Screenshot_2024-12-05_024717.png?ex=6752d9a3&is=67518823&hm=c3c010293bbf096ebb87e818b23190a6b9d191476dcfbb11494e22c0f9ebb855&

[wicked epoch]

Diggy diggy hole

[wicked epoch]

godroll

[true umbra]

mk 3

got it

[wicked epoch]

why arent you usin a duelling sanre

fits the look more

[frail skiff]

Every gun in my builds sans the plasma gun is god rolled

Cause getting a 68 72 plasma gun is hard

[jaunty sphinx]

Dueling sword stinky

[wicked epoch]

but hes a filthy rich nonle

noble

[frail skiff]

Cause Rashad is just stupid busted

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah

[frail skiff]

It does everything

[jaunty sphinx]

Rashad eats crushers for lunch

[wicked epoch]

i dont like rashads

I prefer power swords

[frail skiff]

Did they fix the bug where you lose charge if something sneezes on you?

[true umbra]

Is the taser maul even good?

[dry cloak]

yes

[true umbra]

Good, seems fun.

Need to start farming some better builds

[wicked epoch]

its actually a feature unfortunately

[frail skiff]

wtb desert camo for Brautogun

It would be funny if I could actually use the sights on a Brautogun

[tame lodge]

Bring something to deal with bosses

[true umbra]

Bro said “let me make it an AR15”

[tame lodge]

Since Saul not the best against monstrosities and stuff like that

[frail skiff]

M249 at home

[true kraken]

So how do you actually use the bolter well? The draw+reload speed make it feel really bad in the way I usually play vet (aside from mag dumping bosses pr armor hordes which is lovely)

I always focus quickly sniping shooters/specials then going back to melee

[latent ridge]

hey guys, why in the hell we all didnt get count all the creatures we killed from the start of the game when they added the bestiary penances?

looks like a joke

[frail skiff]

Because fatshark is sadistic and we're all masochist

[true umbra]

Probably not a bolter player then tbh.

I think bolter is better suited for zealot IMO.

Because I just let the zealot mag dump the bosses while I focus on the back line enemies

[wicked epoch]

Do you want my haha funny build?

Its literally

[grand perch]

Bolter is an absolute perfect fit for vet with exec

[wicked epoch]

Mag dumping elite hordes, bosses, and the occasional snipe

So its not what you want at all

and its literally a shout vet with an emphasis on melee

[grand perch]

Bolters just have different roles on the two classes

[wicked epoch]

i play like a zealot with it

sniping is just better suited for an infantry las for me personally

because yk, optics

[true umbra]

I would agree, but people play with mods

So any gun can be the red dot gun

Like most of my friends really like the helbore with the scope on it… lol

[wicked epoch]

i dont play wit mods anymor

they just

dont work for me

[frail skiff]

What would people think of Chink in their armour if instead of the flat 10% it was 4% rending per stack of MF? That way you could have 40% at 10 stacks and 60 at 15 if you take LRA.

[wicked epoch]

since the last update

[balmy flume]

To be fair, Havoc mode spawns so many specials you will make up the numbers in no time at all.

[teal canyon]

By sniping

[wicked epoch]

or or

both reload perks

[latent ridge]

well i agree on that

[wicked epoch]

keep 1 shell in the mag and kill alot of elites

fastest reload in the west

[latent ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-right-youre-right-gif-15444576

[wicked epoch]

my build is so

monkey brain

ooga booga

[true umbra]

I’m just playing aim trainer the whole time

[wicked epoch]

like man

its so

MONKEY BRAIN

i love it

[frail skiff]

Isn't cleave targets the dump stat for power sword?

[wicked epoch]

dawg i dunno

[grand perch]

It is

[wicked epoch]

oh well

[hollow warren]

79% damage on boltgun. Fucking unusable

[wicked epoch]

1% off perfection

[frail skiff]

@wicked epoch Here, I'll lend you my set

[wicked epoch]

you rich noble bastard

im over her

here

HERE

in the SEWERS

and in the SHIT

using my subpar equipmment

[hollow warren]

in the THRENCHES

[wicked epoch]

in the WRONG HOOD

because mine is being used as a throwable by the OGRYN

[oblique totem]

in the FIELD

[wicked epoch]

in the SHIT PUDDLES

[charred finch]

im

not sure why you would dump cleave on power sword

[hollow warren]

in the PROCTOLOGIST'S OFFICE

[frail skiff]

Recon las go brrrrrrrr

[hollow warren]

Yeah, just go with mobility as usual

[charred finch]

exactly

unless gameslantern is just lying (very possible i dont trust it as a source im just too lazy to check ingame) about the difference between 60 & 80 cleave then dumping cleave on power sword is just straight up stupid

[oblique totem]

They could be lying.

[wicked epoch]

in the SHITHOLE THAT IS ATOMNA

[charred finch]

cant have SHIT in tertium bro

[frail skiff]

I dunno, the pinned guide says otherwise 🤷‍♂️

[oblique totem]

It's either rusted to uselessness, half burned, or the commissar took it.

[frail skiff]

I guess Bromentum is the reason?

[charred finch]

i'd presume moreso because of sunder

[grand perch]

Because cleave target does not meaningfully make you cleave more targets

[charred finch]

but even then

[grand perch]

That's why you dump it on ps

[wicked epoch]

Im surprised no one called my build ass

When its literally just shout magdump and melee like a monkey

[charred finch]

that's about how you play veteran really when you use voc

considering your other two options are bootleg shartfield which is already kind of just dog ass

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-dance-gif-25134657

[charred finch]

and ability that gives you ranged damage (which you already have plenty of) & shitty xray

[oblique totem]

Me and the bros running VoC vet only

[remote sonnet]

Wtf do you mean?

[charred finch]

cleave target still affects your damage distribution tho lol

[remote sonnet]

Stealth is quite good

And Executioner is great now with all of the gunners around

[charred finch]

the gunners were always there

they just walk now during fire so you actually recognize them as a threat

instead of stationary stupid turret

[remote sonnet]

They have more damage and faster aiming

[charred finch]

that too

reapers will rip you a new one

and im all for it

the ranged units in this game were kind of a joke before

unless it was like

firing squad

[remote sonnet]

If you think that they are the same as before, then you already have issue with them before this patch.

[crisp oak]

Im just pissed scab gunner exist (and I make sure to let them know it)

[oblique totem]

I always love when 30 gunners pop up and immediately drop the team zealot and Ogryn

[remote sonnet]

Some of the havoc and auric mael condition really need someone with ES

[oblique totem]

Smoke is a hard counter for that, by the way

[remote sonnet]

1-2 taps gunners at all range doesn't sound like a big deal like easier difficulty, but it is a big improvement later.

[charred finch]

smoke is like a really good hard counter now to the gunners

considering the changes to gunners

[frail skiff]

I use smokes on my Helbore sniper build

Comes in clutch when massive range is ahead and I can snipe in peace

[oblique totem]

I habitually move from cover to cover and engage small portions of ranged enemies at a time anyway so I barely notice the changes.

[frail skiff]

Thanks to scopes I can actually cross map stuff with helbore/Vig autogun

[oblique totem]

Except for when half the team suddenly gets dropped and I look over and there's like 30 gunners

I'm happy that there is finally a proper long range sight for vets.

[crisp oak]

Was playing a heresy with some people here, rounded the corned to 5 reaper/gunner packs

[frail skiff]

I see heads to click

[crisp oak]

That took a long time to clear and that was before the gunner buffs

[oblique totem]

Sure, click on heads.

[crisp oak]

I did, it still took for fricking ever

[oblique totem]

But cover does extend the ammount of time you will be able to do that for

[crisp oak]

It does in fact extend, except a sniper sometimes says "fuck your cover"

[frail skiff]

Generally if I turn a corner and see a platoon of gunners/reapers I'll drop a smoke and hope my teammates take the hint to not charge in

[crisp oak]

Fair

[frail skiff]

God

[oblique totem]

Guarantee they charge in

[frail skiff]

I wsh helbore could have deadly accurate

[frail skiff]

I've had a zealot just ult charge in and proceed to go down in 2 seconds flat after all the gunners turned around

[oblique totem]

Standard zealot strategy

At least Ogryns sometimes have a shield.

[frail skiff]

Psyker just stands back and snipes with me usually

[grand perch]

#veteran-class message

[charred finch]

damage distribution

not

amount of enemies hit

different things

[frail skiff]

My thought pattern after the zealot goes down is: "Hey, someone to draw fire so I don't need to throw another smoke!"

[oblique totem]

Don't try to res them, they'd just go down again

[frail skiff]

I don't, I shoot everything around them and I let someone else do it

[oblique totem]

Wise

[frail skiff]

Maybe I should just yell over mic to not run out of the smoke cloud, but I would achieve better results trying to charm a mutant

Well, I think I tuned this Vig autogun build enough. One shots everything short of an ogryn outside of ES

God

I wish helbore could take Deadly Accurate

[crisp oak]

Hellbore with ghost would be funny

[swift river]

You get a bayonet instead

Poke'em in the face

[frail skiff]

I traded that in for a flashlight

So I can take it on power outage missions

That way I can get strange looks from everyone when I crossmap something in the dark

[crisp oak]

How does that even work lol

[frail skiff]

Extended Weapon Customization mod

[crisp oak]

I mean on the other players side

[frail skiff]

It's all client side

[swift river]

They just see your normal gear

[crisp oak]

Do they just see you bayonetting the sky

[frail skiff]

I honestly don't know

No one has said anything yet

[crisp oak]

Might have to try it and see

[frail skiff]

If I can't have a sniper rifle, then I will make my own.

[fiery raft]

Hoping that if they do add snipers, the scope functions like a scope and doesn't envelop the whole screen

Kind of like the see through scopes mod for fallout 4

[pseudo fiber]

Double rendered scopes

My frames

[marsh condor]

Just a what-if, but imagine if the Veteran's weapon update also includes a new Bolter mark.

[pseudo fiber]

That'd be cool

Full auto ads with single shot hipfire

[marsh condor]

Or even two Bolter marks, with the other being all single-shot.

But anyway, imagine if instead of a gun, the Veteran gets a spear.

[crisp oak]

Pickaxe

2 handed shovel

[marsh condor]

Power Spear

[heavy rover]

Yes

All of my yes

Take my money

[marsh condor]

The angriest sticks.

[crisp oak]

Literal sharpened stick

Or bust

[marsh condor]

Oh, and if we add another for Ogryns, what about a hammer?

[crisp oak]

2 more shield marks

One with a shock maul as hammer

[pseudo fiber]

Come on fatshark

[marsh condor]

...this reminds me of something dumb.

[crisp oak]

... the angry marines dpuble power fist

[pseudo fiber]

Fun fact the shield is the only weapon without marks in the files

[marsh condor]

The Veteran's Grenadier Gauntlet (the Power Fist becomes a "Ranged" weapon with the pistol doing the shooting)

[crisp oak]

Not surprised

[marsh condor]

Wait, no, no.

You know those Power Fists with attached guns?

Like the ones Calgar uses.

[heavy rover]

Hear me out, 2 ogryns with shields and then 2 spears. Literally phalanx formation

[pseudo fiber]

Don't think we're gonna grt one of those

[marsh condor]

Ik, but imagine.

[pseudo fiber]

It's be cool

Maybe Morrow has one hidden away

[marsh condor]

Also painful.

[pseudo fiber]

From when he was present at the horus heresy

[marsh condor]

But back to hypothetical reality

We are more likely to get either get a Power Fist, Long-Las or a Hellgun.

[pseudo fiber]

Longlas
Melta
Hotshot lasgun
Stubber (like the one dregs use)
Power first

They're all likely

Which one does veteran need

Probably a gun

[marsh condor]

The guns used by the Dregs appear similar to our Braced Autoguns, specifically the cyan ones.

[pseudo fiber]

No the dreg gunners

[marsh condor]

Oh, that

Then ye

Lemme check on the Veteran

[wicked epoch]

whats the dump stat on the infantry las

this is what im running rn

[teal canyon]

Are you enjoying lasgun gameplay?

[wicked epoch]

i do

occasionally

its a break from boltguns

[teal canyon]

Huh.
I find lasguns unsalvageable bland for its effectiveness

[pseudo fiber]

Mobility

[wicked epoch]

cooked

my rolls dump stability and ammo

[pseudo fiber]

Stability is fine

You definitely want stopping power and damage

Ammo is also useful

[teal canyon]

Bright lasors that obstruct vision doesn't help the lasguns

[wicked epoch]

i can sacrifice a little bit of damage for a lot of ammo

but i need the punch as is

also have this decent helbore

[quartz leaf]

F charge rate and damage

[wicked epoch]

F inded

indeeed

[teal canyon]

I have many grudges with lasguns:

• ammo lie
• noisy laser that dont let me see
• weak damage
• large recoil (wtf)
• slow firing speed and no automatic fire (ahh my fingers)
• no cleave
• no armor penetration
• no stopping power
• no horde, no big guys capability.
• always think teammates are enemies who shoot red beams from behind at me
• big spread when not aiming downsights

[earnest bone]

go try recon 12

it seems you suffered with helbores

[drifting oak]

recon irons are ass unmodded

same as helbores

[earnest bone]

it doesnt matter for recon 12

[drifting oak]

the infantry lasgun sight is barely usable too

boy I love staring a weird obstruction

especially with how much it jumps

[earnest bone]

[teal canyon]

Same standing but without slow fire speed and recoil.
Low damage doubled tho.
Anyway, recons are atleast usable as a weapon

[drifting oak]

no big guys capability is just plain false though
infantry las get bonus damage against maniacs that makes them murder dreg ragers, muties, and the headshot-crit blessing combo makes them delete reapers and bulwarks as long as you have an angle or can shoot at them as they swing at teammates

but yes against crushers it's time to pull out a melee weapon

[teal canyon]

Maniacs arent big guys

[pastel yew]

man, has there been any word on havoc moving away from the party finder?

was so hyped to get in but

this system is poopy

[drifting oak]

they're the most dangerous part of a mixed horde and so I consider them "big" (threats)

you can just reach through the horde and pick them with a good infantry las

[earnest bone]

if you want armor penetration

its Onslaught talent + 10% armorpen in the middle

[drifting oak]

kill every mutie before it's even near the team

absolutely mulch reapers before they get to accomplish much

if you know where to stand to shoot over bulwark shields, you can mulch them too

[teal canyon]

Meatshields of a horde make them kill you.
No cleave

[drifting oak]

ragers are taller than poxwalkers

and again you can pick them off at range

stand. On. Things.

between the two of those you can seriously lighten the load

ragers are also generally faster and will be in teh front

you hear a horde spawn, whip around and check your back, if you're the first one there you can kill every non-mauler/crusher elite before it gets to you

with a good infantry las

if you're bad like 99% of pugs even on auric, and hear a horde spawn cue, just stand around or run forward continuing to farm ambients, then turn around and are surprised by the fact there's two full elite mixed horde pulls already in your ass, then yes you won't get much mileage out of lasguns

it's why the panic-button "problem deleter" plasma and bolt weapons are so popular

but like... if you just actually pay attention to map layout and spawns you can get so much work done

[marsh condor]

Hm. I'll say that the Veteran may be more likely to get a melee weapon.

[teal canyon]

I like most guns but vigilant infantry guns and lasguns

[balmy flume]

Regardless of what gun you are using

Backspawn awareness is essential

You will be punished for not having it in Damnation

[teal canyon]

They punish me for not having aimbot but not reward for actually hitting.

[balmy flume]

You will not survive without it in Auric

And you will cause a team wipe in Havoc without it

Always communicate backspawns to the team if you notice it happening

Regardless of weapon

[teal canyon]

Its usually me who deal with backspawns and i cant stand lasguns when im on it

[balmy flume]

Without diving into the gun debate itself, you don't always have to immediately engage the backspawn.

Spamming Nades and kiting them back to the team is also an option.

[sleek garden]

This is such a stupid thing to be happy about but they are letting me interact with ragdolls finally

[drifting oak]

Well, the point is that you hear the cue, you sprint hard backwards so that you have space between you and your team's current blissfully ignorant "frontline" still pushing forward to kite back into

[sleek garden]

now I can knock a dude still standing into the stratosphere without him collapsing

[balmy flume]

(And remember to just do the skull tag to alert the team)

[drifting oak]

I hard mash it every time lol

[balmy flume]

(Because surprisingly some people do pay attention to the tags)

[sleek garden]

Many enemies stand still to do their thing

[drifting oak]

Elite gunners don't anymore! D:

[sleek garden]

Yes they move to the side a bit now

They've become so scary

I take a lasgun with ghost

[drifting oak]

Also that's patently false, the quick-firing, small-bullet lasgun is an amazing headshot machine

[balmy flume]

Gunners on high enough Havoc

Are a nightmare

[sleek garden]

And exy stance

[drifting oak]

you get rewarded hard for being a headshot machine with amazing breakpoints

[balmy flume]

They might as well be holding heavy bolters...

[sleek garden]

Yeah mine is capable of killing a scab gunner in 1 shot past a certain range and much closer with a crit

It also bodyshots shooters past a certain range as well

With sniper and flak/unarmored

[balmy flume]

All this talk is reminding me I really should do something different from my "Tabletop Sergeant" PSword/Bolt Pistol build at some point...

[charred dome]

Dumdum doesn't have to be the same enemy yes?

[balmy flume]

Shouldn't have to be AFAIK

[charred dome]

Was gonna run ghost with duck and dive but ghost duration doesn't seem like it's one second lol

[sleek garden]

Power sword and voice of command is just a little too easy mode

When I take voc now I take the modifier that revives people and makes the cooldown longer

spice it up

[sleek garden]

If you take the marksmans focus modifier tunnel vision you regen stamina on headshot

[balmy flume]

If you play Havoc, you don't need those modifiers to balance it out. Especially 25+.

[sleek garden]

So if you hit a lot of guys in the head at once you can counter deadshot

[sleek garden]

Haven't gotten the opportunity

[balmy flume]

Ah fair

Highly painful, but highly recommended XD

[sleek garden]

Highest level so far was some other person's 19

[balmy flume]

My highest is some other's 29.

So yea, come 25+, your toughness and health penalties actually make it so VoC becomes reasonable

[sleek garden]

So far my devils claw inflas exy stance build is working fine

[balmy flume]

And enemy gunners might as well be holding heavy bolters.

[sleek garden]

I noticed

Go to auric damnation high intensity new mission

Everyone sprints at gunners and gets mowed down

[balmy flume]

I have seen Ogryn players expressing surprise at how nasty Havoc Gunners are as well

[sleek garden]

I think them moving is the deadliest thing

Because you used to be able to keep track of them while they fired

Running behind the door might not save you while the horde is on you

Because he'll just strafe to the other side of the door

[balmy flume]

Yea, the mobility buff will also take some getting use to

[remote sonnet]

I don't know what the other guy is high about,Lasgun and lasgun build is the best in gunner modifier.

1-2 hits drag rager and 3 hit fking mutant with more than 40 shots per mag.

[balmy flume]

Most likely a positioning issue in all honesty.

It takes a while to un-learn the "auto engage FPS" mindset with Darktide, and know when to run back to the group first before shooting.

[sleek garden]

The biggest issue now is that I'm firing my lasgun like nonstop

[remote sonnet]

The ammo counter is a "lie" especially if you has shock trooper, you might be able to get 50 shots per mag.

[sleek garden]

I didn't put the point into the lasgun crit ammo use talent

Shock trooper

I have efficiency as a blessing on my gun for some reason

But it makes ammo use 1-2 per shot instead of 3 for a couple of seconds

[balmy flume]

Any Lasguns with Shcoktrooper only loses out to non-gun psykers in terms of ammo efficiency

[remote sonnet]

Go with the Mk9 then

[sleek garden]

I hope staff psykers learn that their lmb has insane suppression

[slow spade]

I like the MG LA c:

[balmy flume]

Like I like the iconic Bolt Pistol and even then I recognize it eats ammo like a kid through a popcorn bucket

[slow spade]

rip my fingers though

[sleek garden]

Spamming lmb at groups of shooters sends them scampering with my staff

[sleek garden]

Is that the fast one

[remote sonnet]

The MK9 shoots a little slower, but if you hit, you also kill faster

[slow spade]

the middle one

[sleek garden]

Oh that's the one I use

[remote sonnet]

Don't use the blue one if you want to pick out specialists

[sleek garden]

Sometimes it bodyshots trappers and bombers with a crit

[short fern]

I enjoy recon lasgun because I can just hold down left click. It’s nice on the fingers

[sleek garden]

Blue is outstanding at the anti shooter role

[tawdry jackal]

Ok it’s lasgun time for me before I hit the gym

[balmy flume]

Back before the weapon changes I ran XII.

I love the Las infantry scope, very fun to counter-snipe with.

[tawdry jackal]

Time to make a new build

[slow spade]

my only real issue is it fucks up my fingers

[sleek garden]

I keep trying to use it like an lmg for hordes at head level but I must be doing something wrong

Or using the wrong mark

[short fern]

Recon lasgun with shock trooper feels like infinite ammo, if you get survivalist it’s overkill honestly

[sleek garden]

Which one has the most ammo in the mag

[balmy flume]

I think the braced autoguns are the closer LMG analogues

[sleek garden]

I use marksmans focus, I want to aim for heads

[short fern]

Get the 5% crit on gun, 5% talent, reciprocity and just let loose

[sleek garden]

I will use braced autoguns on zealot though

It's good with the talents they have

But on veteran I want to aim for the head

I hate missing all my shots past 10 feet

Infantry autoguns are good as well

They are much more suited to the skirmish role

Faster run speed higher stamina high capacity

Only problem is that they have a bit of kick so it's hard to stay level for headshots

I let it kick up into faces now

Or crouch

The brown one is my favorite

[balmy flume]

The longest Infantry Autgoun has a bit of cleave

Great for "brute forcing" a shot to that asshole bomber/trapper hiding in a horde

[sleek garden]

Yeah

I just don't use it mainly because of looks

seems to be made of flimsy stamped metal

Hits like a truck and sounds good though

[slow spade]

AKA the most sturdy autogun in the Imperium

[sleek garden]

My main argument for using the high capacity guns is pretty much that every other person on your team is using a bolter, flamer, or revolver

[tawdry jackal]

fuck i love me a bolter tho. nevertheless could use a bit of a change

shits awkward when you forget to leave one round in the mag

someone's gotta have good uptime to fire it up

[sleek garden]

Bolter is fun but I spend a lot of time slowly lining up heads on scab shooters strewn everywhere

I end up using it like a giant battle rifle

[frail skiff]

I think you would get more millage out of a vig autogun for that type of thing

[tawdry jackal]

i have a bad tendency to level hordes sometimes with it instead of saving it for specials or crushers, when on auric maelstrom

its why i think i need a weapon with more uptime

[sleek garden]

I use the 3 round burst one currently

[teal canyon]

I want vostroyan firstborn cosmetic pack since we have new sleek power weapons for everyone

Valhallan ice warriors for complete commissar Cain pack

[serene bough]

i need to get to higher havoc difficulties to test the ilas

[sleek garden]

If you do so report

Because I want to know

[serene bough]

sure

currently only at 19, but i was playing 21 earlier today and IIB seemed functional

but i really wanna see 30+

now that the error 9999 is temp fixed i can progress my own havoc assignment

[balmy flume]

It's what finally got me locked into Bolt Pistol. You get the range and power, but quicker reload speed and better Stamina efficiency

Although yes, you do sacrifice the rapid fire aspect.

[sleek garden]

I don't usually rapid fire

I like the bolter over bolt pistol because of the power in the shots and ammo in mag

[balmy flume]

Fair

Different priorities as well - I value being able to keep up with the team 🤣 (though I PUG quite often) since PUG players are prone to just...run off without location awareness of other members

And Boltgun means I am playing catchup quite often

[sleek garden]

I get left behind a lot yeah

the curse of everyone and their mom using knife/duelling sword

Everyone just speeds off

[slow spade]

no pinning fire though :c

[slow spade]

I swapped the +1 stam node for +5% speed :p

any little bit helps

[analog yacht]

3x sprint efficiency helps a lot ime

[balmy flume]

So long as you still have some toughness bonuses

If you somehow don't need it for Damnation or Auric

Come Havoc, you need it.

Since you flat out get your toughness and health reduced.

[slow spade]

Dukane just dropping us directly into Nurgle's Garden

[analog yacht]

3x sprint efficiency is effectively 62.8% more sprint distance out of your stamina.

Stamina curio for stamina heavy weapons is good though yeah

I personally take the stam node in the tree tho

Partially because it chains off of good stuff but also bc it's just enough

[balmy flume]

Maybe Dukane is the real sus double agent...

[analog yacht]

With HP penalties you're probably better off going all in on toughness anyway since you're not hitting the breakpoints

[pastel yew]

or you could slide dodge, move at 95% the speed of full sprint and have 3 open modifiers for your curios

this also means you have more stamina when getting into combat

I think you need both? stam recovery nodes for it to become 0 stam tho

[sleek garden]

I like stamina because I can sprint through enemy fire

Slide dodging through fire still gets you shot a few times when you stand up

[thin stone]

Can someone send me a vet build for havoc or is it too early to ask for builds for havoc

[analog yacht]

Breakpoints will be tier specific and I don't imagine anyone's calculated them yet

[thin stone]

hmm

[tawdry jackal]

ok so maybe take off toughness 5%s for this?

[analog yacht]

what are your main 3 curios?

if they're all 17% toughness then that 5% is 3.3% more toughness, relatively

[pastel yew]

all the S tier broken builds are probably already the best bet

if havoc has its own break points then

[thin stone]

like?

[pastel yew]

testing for them is going to be awful

[thin stone]

I trust the nerds in this community

[analog yacht]

combine00 already has a hidden modifiers spreadsheet

[pastel yew]

I mean take your pick of the s tier weapons zarona, plasma gun, columnus (or whatever they're called now)

[charred dome]

So weapons specialist gives over 100% crit chance if I have at least 4 stacks right? Just making sure I'm reading this right

[analog yacht]

you can just browse most of darktide's source code and find the values

[pastel yew]

dueling sword, rashad combat axe, knife, dueling sword again what a mess

[crude wind]

yes, 99 at 3

[charred dome]

Just makin sure

[crude wind]

Plasma in havoc is kind of rough tbh

ammo issues in later difficulties

[analog yacht]

elites and specials get 50% more hp at tier 5+

[pastel yew]

yeah, the crit is only applied to the first shot after firing I think

[pastel yew]

as in havoc 5+?

5 of 40

[charred dome]

You what

[analog yacht]

I believe every 5 levels is a tier?

or maybe it's every 10

[serene bough]

yeah sprint effic is great

[pastel yew]

depending on how the break points turn out spammy weapons are probably the way to go, as slow weapons get punished heavily by shit breakpoints

[pastel yew]

the stacking crit chance, applies only to the first shot

[frigid lance]

anyone got a good recon lasgun build for havoc?

[charred dome]

So weapons specialist only gives the crit chance on the first shot?

[analog yacht]

oh no wait

[serene bough]

usually i do block/sprint effic and stam regen

[crude wind]

yes

[serene bough]

im gonna try some CD reduction

[charred dome]

Guess I'm dumping it for duck and dive lol

[pastel yew]

hard to go wrong with a recon lasgun build, just take the shoot skills and shock trooper

[charred dome]

this is what I was gonna do

[pastel yew]

ES if you're a chad

[pastel yew]

for what primary weapon

[crude wind]

honestly take it

[charred dome]

rashad and laspistol

[pastel yew]

mmh

[crude wind]

weapon specialist is amazing for the melee boost

[analog yacht]

tier 5 also has a hidden modifier for -75% ammo so the ammo node might be lowk mandatory

[charred dome]

bruhmentum and idk if I want shred or headtaker on rashad

friend said take shred to stack britleness

[pastel yew]

exploit weakness over 25 toughness?

[crude wind]

the crit thing is nice and all but really only for certain weapons like Hacker shottie, revolver etc

[pastel yew]

honeslty the rashad is just gonna kill whatever it hits

[charred dome]

should I dump desperado too

[pastel yew]

headtaker always the better of the two I think

[charred dome]

How big is the finesse bonus anyways

[pastel yew]

and nah desperado real good

finessse applies to any weakspot

[charred dome]

I know now that weakness damage is a shit modifier but is desperado cheeks?

[pastel yew]

and its just a free +10% crit for melee

[crude wind]

desperado is 10% crit for melee

[analog yacht]

desperado is always good

[crude wind]

you take that, the 25 toughness and attack speed

[pastel yew]

and crit

[crude wind]

and you have 3 amazing talents

[charred dome]

guess I'll dump exploit for the 25 tough

[pastel yew]

yee

[analog yacht]

precision strikes is also much better than deadshot

[crude wind]

exploit weakness is meh

[analog yacht]

exploit weakness is a meme

[charred dome]

Still not sure if I want weapon spec now though lol

[crude wind]

try it

[thin stone]

Is it just me

[crude wind]

you get more dodge, more attack speed

[pastel yew]

weapon spec is good for the rashad n laspistol pew pew

[charred dome]

I did but knowing that the crit chance is only on the first shot lol

[thin stone]

or Havoc feels ridiculous

[crude wind]

your rashad goes blender mode

[pastel yew]

you dont benefit a lot from the free crit but

the 20% attack speed is huge

[thin stone]

Like I think auric maelstorm was fine 😭

[crude wind]

that is like the least important thing of the keystone imo

[charred dome]

I did realize that uh

shred, applies to ranged weapon after swapping I think?

[pastel yew]

I've not managed to play havoc because of the dog party finder system

I got rank 16 from doing the maelstrom then had a bunch of invites rejecte

[crude wind]

you want weapon specialist for the melee buffs, and access to the pocket reload

[thin stone]

max I've played is Havoc 14

[pastel yew]

so its either I lfg here or just cry

[thin stone]

I die easily at 20+

[charred dome]

don't have points for the pocket reload lol

[crude wind]

though the second one is build dependent

[crude wind]

you don't need it for las pistol

but if you run dbl shottie

its very good

[charred dome]

trying this then or

[pastel yew]

yeah the pocket reload is huge on like.. zarona or shotty but everything else its just sorta aight

[crude wind]

looks fun!

[pastel yew]

drop one of your stam recoveries for precision strikes

the one in the top left

[charred dome]

Nah

I've had like 20 people tell me

[analog yacht]

finesse isn't bad per se you just need to know what it does. 25% finesse reads: "The bonus damage from crit/headshot is 25% higher." So if you normally do 50, and a crit is 100, then 25% finesse means 25% increase on the 50 bonus damage

[charred dome]

weakspot damage is garbage

[crude wind]

not if it hits a breakpoint

[charred dome]

It applies the bonus to the weakspot damage, not the base damage

[pastel yew]

weakspot damage on weapons is garbage

[charred dome]

And that implies I can aim to begin with

[crude wind]

it works on melee too

[pastel yew]

the talent is 3x as big and helps you reach new breakpoints

[crude wind]

rashad says hi

[charred dome]

I know that but if the bonus is something miniscule I think I'll pass

[pastel yew]

also weakspot damage isnt awful awful on vet because you have nutty finesse for no reason

[crude wind]

you donb't need both stamina regen nodes

[charred dome]

Too lazy to even try and dig up breakpoints

[crude wind]

honestly toughness dr better than having both

the 10% node

[pastel yew]

you only need 2 stam regen nodes if you're using like... a power sword or something

a weapon where you constantly push attack

the rashad push attack is aggressively mid

you'll never use

[analog yacht]

rashad push attack does tons of stagger

[charred dome]

So swap shred for headtaker or keep it as is

[crude wind]

headtaker for me personally

[analog yacht]

it staggers ragers on damn, probably not havoc tho

[pastel yew]

the only thing you'd wanna stagger you'd shoot anyway, that bein the ragers

[charred dome]

I'm not bothering with havoc, it's just weaves 2.0

[pastel yew]

if it doesnt stagger in havoc that'd be fucked

its the only reason to ever use that

[crude wind]

no it isn't

[analog yacht]

if you can save the ammo with a push attack why not

[crude wind]

there's no need to repeat sound bites you've read on the internet

[analog yacht]

but 2x stamina nodes for rashad is unnecessary yes

[pastel yew]

I Guess yeah, though I'm a stingy player and rarely run out of resources

[charred dome]

From playing it myself, it feels like weaves 2.0 lol

Nowhere as painful though

[pastel yew]

will hold off on my opinion of it till I actually get to play it but

so far everyone seems real negative about it which is sad

[charred dome]

The curios is what's driving me insane

[crude wind]

it doesn't feel like weaves at all to me. Weaves felt like little mini game puzzle segments, Havoc feels like playing a darktide run but harder with more team strategy invovlved

[pastel yew]

did havoc get any weird or interesting conditions?

[crude wind]

excited to see them build on it

[analog yacht]

weaves were just shade stealth simulator

[crude wind]

yes. The biggest change is the Emperor's fading light

shooters are actually an enemy now

[pastel yew]

what's it do

yoo

[crude wind]

makes everything kill you

[analog yacht]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3375980903

[pastel yew]

I had said during the mega shooter patch they should make it a condition

[crude wind]

gunners don't pause between shots

you have no toughness grace period

[pastel yew]

sounds rough depending on the build

[crude wind]

it's something you have to accomodate for with a build

someone needs anti shooter tech

[pastel yew]

infantry lasgun be snoozin but... double barrel would likely be dead

[crude wind]

dome/prayer/smoke

[pastel yew]

I guess you could run smoke grenades

holy shit I never thought Id

say that

[crude wind]

smokes are good in Havoc

unironically

very good

especially at 30s

so like, the success of the mode has been opening up the viability of underpicked talents in Havoc

[pastel yew]

which is good

[crude wind]

you know what else is weirdly very good? the box upgrade talent

corruption remove + grenades back for whole team can be so clutch

[pastel yew]

I feel that's always been pretty good its just like, fucky to get because of the talent taxxes in the vet tree

[crude wind]

agree but its not often taken

[pastel yew]

though maybe its a fine trade off with the extra modifiers

its in the same bracket as grenade regen

[analog yacht]

the box is fine ig, it's just competing with much better stuff

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean... its competing with the talent in every vet build

one of the best in the game

[crude wind]

i feel like you will like Havoc if you enjoy team based strategies and co-ordination

[pastel yew]

the best node in the best class...

[crude wind]

and probably hate it if you want to live a solo powerfantasy

[pastel yew]

having to actually play around team would be nice, depends on if it keeps lower skill players out as

[crude wind]

no jdugement on whatever, but that's how it will shake out

[pastel yew]

auric+ is just babysitting duty

[crude wind]

undoubtedly will once the dust has settled

can't have babysits on havoc

[analog yacht]

It's not a black and white "selfish talent vs team talent"

[pastel yew]

maybe I'll suffer through some looking for group stuff

aaa

[analog yacht]

team talents are good when the value proposition is good

[crude wind]

yep

[pastel yew]

or get my irl friends back into the game

[analog yacht]

some grenades for your team like once a mission is mid af

[crude wind]

depends though right.

you can't say that's going to be the case every single game. and likewise, the corruption heal stuff, that'll be good in some parties and worthless in others

depending on composition of team

i'm not saying its an S tier autopick but at least it can be considered now

[charred dome]

You're always going to have a zealot that stands in the piss puddles the ENTIRE game lmao

[pastel yew]

zealot corruption aura finally being good

[crude wind]

bro this is so accurate you have no idea

[charred dome]

literally first game with that modifier I was like oh, this isn't too bad just stay out of the puddles and run through it if I have to

[pastel yew]

just gotta think like a zealot... corruption = damage = martyrdom makes me ponch harder

[charred dome]

No, zealot kept standing there the entire time

dropped down to 1 HP

lovetap by a random mook

dead

[pastel yew]

jesus

[crude wind]

i've had a similar experience

[pastel yew]

I mean people will adjust as time goes on

hopefully

[crude wind]

also had a psyker that would not play his shield at all

[balmy flume]

Those puddles are poison

[crude wind]

and just tried to smite it

[balmy flume]

Space cancer, even

[charred dome]

and I was playing ogryn so even I knew I couldn't just charge into hordes and smack stuff around I'd have to end the charge early lol

[pastel yew]

the only point of health that matters is the last one, it's a resource to be burned by doing aggressive stupid shit 🚬

just like the emperor intended

[charred dome]

I want to see 4 voc vets run a 40 havoc

just cycling shouts the entire time

[analog yacht]

shout overshield better than ever

[short fern]

All using dueling swords

[crude wind]

what else is new ^^

[pastel yew]

how much does shout stack actually

I know the overheal can stack twice like

if all four are shouting on cooldown is that literally +200 stamina?

toughness even

[charred dome]

my friend was telling me dueling sword is OP right now and I said why and when they explained it I said this is literally just the saltz rapier, uncanny looks stupid af

[charred dome]

I've had up to 150+

Idk if there's a cap on it

[pastel yew]

oh god it must stack to 200 then

[crude wind]

it's the best, safest and most broken melee weapon in the game

[pastel yew]

if there was a cap youd think it lower than that

[crude wind]

DSiv specifically

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean the dueling sword is S tier at everyhting but horde clear

[charred dome]

We had a book zealot doing his thing, I shouted and was like oh holy shit 150

4 voc vets all with iron will

[analog yacht]

ds4 struggles with horde clear which is a real issue as horde spawns get ramped up

[pastel yew]

vet has loads of ways to deal with that fortunately

frags / a number of ranged weapons

[crude wind]

my favourite DSIV build is weapon swap and dbl barrel shottie

weeeeeeeeeee

[pastel yew]

dueling sword double barrel sounds p good

[analog yacht]

like ds4 can kinda just kite forever until the horde is dead, but sometimes speed matters

[pastel yew]

manstopper for horde clear

it's literally what I'm running now except

not the dueling sword

chain axxe

[crude wind]

very 40k of you

[pastel yew]

because for whatever reason that weapon is worse than the dueling sword at its intended role and has awful horde clear...

[analog yacht]

devoting your ranged ammo to killing trash is mid at best

[pastel yew]

true! I slept on this weapon for ages though

the chain axe feels so good

[analog yacht]

I guess if you're running uncanny you get the rending on it for elites, but you're running ds4 so like

[crude wind]

devoting your ranged ammo to killing specials and maniacs though

cue the drake meme

[pastel yew]

and I can see that but like, if you need the horde clear you need the horde clear

[short fern]

Good thing lasgun builds have so much

[slow spade]

sad flamer noises

[charred dome]

every time I see the chain weapons I cringe, is it really safe to just stick your weapon in an enemy even if it flinchlocks them when there's never just one mauler/crusher

[analog yacht]

That was irt to double barrel

[charred dome]

I've never used them before

[pastel yew]

flamer gets throwing knives though so it dont matter

honestly the zealot throwing knives are giga

[crude wind]

you can dodge out of the sticky now at least, but yeah stickies aren't great.

[pastel yew]

no its unsafe as fuck

[slow spade]

I wish the talents that led to knives weren't pretty eh

[pastel yew]

and the damage is

mid

[charred dome]

friend was telling me uh some psyker staff or something? has the same issue

[pastel yew]

but the sound design

AAOAOASOFOAOFAOAA

[analog yacht]

chain weapons are dog