veteran-class

[warm harbor]

Good against all

[unborn shadow]

Not shovel

[warm harbor]

Shovels are fun but not handy

[slow spade]

Rashad Combat Axe, Combat blade mk6 (if built right), Psword, and of course heavy sword

[unborn shadow]

Blue shovel has everything tho

[slow spade]

Shovel is decent at horde clear but certainly not the fastest

[warm harbor]

Shovel’s fine
Not good
But fine

The only ones I recall use it are Krieg cosplayers

[slow spade]

Pinned guide

[slow spade]

it has really good dodge stats an access to Uncanny so its not a bad pick

[primal dune]

Shovels are outclassed by the power maul i'd say

[unborn shadow]

Or people who like going pickaxe mode and 1HKilling everything short of an ogryn

[warm harbor]

That’s why I rank it fine

[primal dune]

Shock maul, rather

[warm harbor]

Fair

[unborn shadow]

I do like the powermaul

Staggering muties is pretty useful

[warm harbor]

Up to now I only used:
Chainsowrd (favorite)
Chainaxe
Mace
Power Sword

[slow spade]

indeed

[slow spade]

I like the combat axe for its simplicity. No flair, no fancy moves, just whack

[unborn shadow]

And heavy attack for blue shovel is a wide area clearing sweep that, with the right build, deletes infested

Knife's pretty fun too

But ever since veteran got deuling sword, I feel knife is outclassed

[warm harbor]

Each weapon has it’s peculiarity
The chargeup of chain weapons is perfect for killing heavy enemies
The shock of the mace is good against specialists
The power sword just shreds everything

[primal dune]

Well, everything is outclassed by the DS pretty much

[warm harbor]

Meh I don’t really like knife and dueling sword

I like the RAW POWER of the Chainsword

Plus I really like slashing

[slow spade]

I wished it was easier to tell when people mean Devil Claw or Dueling Sword

Fatshark renames all the guns and shit but not the weapons sharing similar names/abbreviations :c

[unborn shadow]

That's why I call Deuling Sword what it actually is...

... a Saber.

[slow spade]

toothpick*

[unborn shadow]

That too

[slow spade]

:p

[primal dune]

I don't understand why they thought making it multiclass was a good idea

[warm harbor]

Devil claw has an interesting parry ability

[slow spade]

memes

[unborn shadow]

Proceeds to weakspot critical an ogryn to death

[warm harbor]

I am gonna try it out after I maxed the mace

[tawny timber]

thank you

[slow spade]

which got buffed to allow multiple parries at once

dangerous on stamina but makes it far more reliable

[warm harbor]

I just can’t hear dueling sword
It feels so stupid to hear

[warm harbor]

Gonna lock in and try it out

[unborn shadow]

I know but saber isn't an official name for it

Even if that's exactly what it is

[inner temple]

Its.. fine. I wouldn't bother trying to take out an army with claw parry or anything. Maybe if its ragers

[primal dune]

I like the DC but having a melee weapon that can't deal with carapace is hard

[warm harbor]

I deal with ragers with the bayonet

[slow spade]

the most important thing about that change is it lets you parry the full rager combo (as they double hit) very comfy c:

[unborn shadow]

Good choice

[warm harbor]

I just poke them to sweet death

[slow spade]

krak for days

[primal dune]

Not leaving the ship without frags

[warm harbor]

Carapace?
You mean-
Supercralifragii’mgonnastickabombtoit?

[unborn shadow]

I infitrate, run into a hoarde, and drop a buffed frag

[inner temple]

Heavy. A lot

[unborn shadow]

Works well usually

[warm harbor]

I keep my infiltrate to resurrect or when I’m in the shit to the neck

And sticky nades for the carapaces

[unborn shadow]

I know. My friend gets so pressed I use infiltrate

[warm harbor]

The rest is bayonet and Chainsword

[inner temple]

You can do this and not cost the infiltrate so you can perform more.

[primal dune]

I use infil to dive gunner packs

[inner temple]

Good on vet when you have replenish on nades

[inner temple]

Same then I shotgun them all

[unborn shadow]

I'm more liberal with my infiltrate use bc my builds can afford it. Especially on Shock Troop Gauntlet

[slow spade]

smh melta fun though

[unborn shadow]

I got two charges + 6 seconds CD per specialist

[warm harbor]

Tried the combat shotgun but not the double barrel yet

[primal dune]

That and -12% cooldown reduction on curios

[warm harbor]

Maxed the melta, fun gun, but always out of ammos + awful reload speed

Most the time has to infiltrate to recharge

[unborn shadow]

I focus on stamina bc combat shotgun has a 1.75 stamina use... for some reason

[inner temple]

Combat. Fun you get slug and it deals punch through. DB. Can literally make you feel like doomslayer with the right build.

[unborn shadow]

Double Barrel's is just 1 but being able to fire only twice isn't my goto

[inner temple]

It can actually deal with armor aswell

[inner temple]

The idea is its a run n gun

[warm harbor]

Quite in handy tho

*unhandy

I prefer combat one

Also has more technological vibes

[inner temple]

Well yuh its a double barrel one of the most basic rudamental weapons

I can make a double barrel with two pipes and makeshift firing pins.

[dry cloak]

It allows you to play doom

[grand perch]

If you manage to grenade jump into the top of the holo statue in the torrent, you access the secret classic Doom level

[maiden tapir]

Anyone got a weapon spec melee weapon they like that isnt the knife or dueling sword, been using tac axe 7 but trying stuff out

[inner temple]

Tactical axe, shovel, power sword, heavy sword

[grand perch]

I use taxes a lot but I legit use my knife build, even keeping serrated blade cause I'm too lazy to put that point elsewhere every time i switch from knife to taxe or reverse

[dry cloak]

Antax combat axe abd power sword

[maiden tapir]

Ya knife is good ive just used it alot

ive never liked the combat axes they just feel to slow

[inner temple]

I just don't like the C-axe. I'll take anything else.

Even then I'm gonna mastery it.

[tropic abyss]

finally

[steady ibex]

So the Veteran guide only has 1 sample build. Are there any more I can find somewhere?

[inner temple]

That's a good health roll

[tropic abyss]

first time I find a perfect health curio

in like 120 hours of playing

[ocean idol]

Wait, does Out for Blood restores toughness even on ranged kills?

[tropic abyss]

I have a ton of +3 stamina and a couple of +17 tou but the health ones are so much rarer

[tropic abyss]

yes

it also increases tou regen on melee kill

[slow spade]

ANY kill

including grenades and guns

[stoic thorn]

Why is it red

[slow spade]

it competes with Confirmed Kill for toughness regen

[tropic abyss]

mod

doesn't really do much in here but it makes talent descriptions much more readable

[steady ibex]

Anyone?

[hearty panther]

OfB is so good. Too bad One Motion sucks.

[sleek garden]

Devils claw so you can whip out the sword to parry

[orchid hemlock]

No

[midnight totem]

Me thinking about Vanguard

https://tenor.com/view/its-terrible-day-for-rain-its-not-raining-tears-cry-crying-gif-15563346

[ocean idol]

What keystone you think better for bolter?

[ocean idol]

bruh, that's so busted

[midnight totem]

Focus

[ocean idol]

[hearty panther]

i miss u vanguard

u didnt deserve that

[ocean idol]

If that was a joke, it was great

[ocean idol]

if it was not, THEY ARE BOTH CALLED FOCUS

[midnight totem]

Focus target

Not marksman

[inner temple]

I always liked the idea of shipping those two. O wait they're married no?

[hearty panther]

They're uh. Hm.

Professional.

[midnight totem]

Technically not married because no fraternization in the military

[slow spade]

its strong but Confirmed Kill is easier to path for

[inner temple]

'Professional'

[slow spade]

so its balanced that way

[midnight totem]

(But let's be fair, they be bumping and everybody else looks the other way)

[inner temple]

Yeah lmao

[ocean idol]

But bolter really can use improved swap speed

[midnight totem]

But if you want memes

[tropic abyss]

depends on the weapon

[midnight totem]

Take weapon specialist for bolter

AND LET IT RIP

[ocean idol]

Headhunter + Deadly accurate for las guns?

[slow spade]

then you have difficulty pathing for Confirmed Kill too

[ocean idol]

too slow swap speed 😦

[hearty panther]

gotta learn to tech everything

[ocean idol]

teching = cheating

change my mind

[hearty panther]

nah

if you macro it you're a bitch

[midnight totem]

That's what the perk above out for blood is for

[slow spade]

if the Spawn Director can spawn poxbursters at doors I'm next to

[hearty panther]

otherwise if the game is accepting inputs into outcomes that's legit

[slow spade]

I can reload tech

[hearty panther]

quell cancel = fine, quell cancel macro = go fuck yourself

[ocean idol]

Actually i only now noticed that crits on infantry lasguns are not that good

[ocean idol]

still too slow for weapon specialist usage

[inner temple]

They're just common

Especially if you hit weakspots

[ocean idol]

So Deadly Accurate + Headhunter on infantry lasguns?

[hearty panther]

or ghost

i recommend ghost

[inner temple]

Can basically have unlimited ammo with lasguns tbh

[midnight totem]

If you think so -shrug- I've been using it to great effect

[ocean idol]

instead of which?

[hearty panther]

whichever

[midnight totem]

Decided to dust off my shout bolter build yesterday, practically carried an auric

[hearty panther]

all the Infantry las blessings suck in their own way

they all either lack damage or consistency or somehow both (lol efficiency)

[serene bough]

HH + Ghost for ilas

[slow spade]

its a comfy build

[hearty panther]

ghost always works if you land headshots (and you should be) and lets you stay stuck in to keep shooting

its as close as you get to a functional damage blessing

[analog yacht]

ilas needs new blessings

[slow spade]

adding on to this, it works with Duck and Cover. Letting you combo with Deadshot

[inner temple]

Take consistentsy then get headshots much as you can.

These are pretty lore accurate tbh.

Trash weapons everyone hates but despite everything its better than no weapon and something you can rely on still.

[ocean idol]

actually, deadly accurate allows one-shotting gunners on crits

on lasgun 7

which is the better one btw

[hearty panther]

yea there's a keyword there

on crits, if you crit, on a headshot

and you can guarantee crits, almost, with a loooot of dedication in your talent trees

at which point almost any other lasgun would be better

[inner temple]

Better one for in general use if im not mistaken. The IIb is nice for rapid fire and your trash at aiming but want a good build.

[slow spade]

full auto MG La when?

[hearty panther]

idk the new mark names, curse ye fatshark

[ocean idol]

that's basically recon

[inner temple]

Yes needs to happen

[ocean idol]

I just use "heavy" prefix for the one with highest damage, and "light" for the one with highest rof

I want helfire gun

and melta

AND ELDAR WEAPONRY

GIVE ME SHURIKEN CATAPULTS

[inner temple]

Yes but it only has like 90 rounds and it uses up 2 per shot or what not. I want a 160 round magazine.

At that point give me a rat as a character and let him snort warpstone as a ability and he goes into a frenzy.

[slow spade]

recon with headtaker and deadly accurate would be amazing

but it does not

[ocean idol]

did you skip name there btw? "better one"

[inner temple]

It does not be deadly accurate. Then again I've seen only very few shooters.

[inner temple]

Nah I just dunno all the marks. Only one I know is IIb because it's super easy to remember.

[serene bough]

IIb is Mk4 VII is Mg1a IX is Mg12

[ocean idol]

JUST USE LIGHT AND HEAVY PREFIXES GODDAMIT

so easy

[hearty panther]

IIb is my favourite tbh

[sleek garden]

the infantry lasguns put out like 1000+ damage on a headshot for me

bodyshots on maniacs is like 6-700

[hearty panther]

not the gun itself, the blessings

the blessings are all super mid

[sleek garden]

Ghost is good

[hearty panther]

somehow it has a huge selection and they're all kinda whatever

yea i like ghost

[sleek garden]

I like using it with executor stance and as long as you can click heads you can mow down a wall of gunners

yeah the blue infantry lasgun needs a crit to get a one shot on most specialists but honestly as the fastest firing and highest capacity lasgun that seems fair

[sleek garden]

you're not wrong though a lot of them are just all right

Does it have headhunter I forgot

[serene bough]

Efficiency + falter meta when?

[sleek garden]

Headhunter is pretty good

[sleek garden]

I used to use this all the time

[serene bough]

Yeah HH + Ghost is optimal

[sleek garden]

Right now mine is ghost and efficiency

[serene bough]

You can use opening salvo on mg IX if built right

[ocean idol]

at that point might as well use recon?

[sleek garden]

I might try and be brave and take off ghost

[serene bough]

But otherwise HH is always must pick, 20% crit stacking is crazy

[sleek garden]

Infantry lasguns have reverse damage falloff

[hearty panther]

and awful flak damage

[sleek garden]

With some moderate tweaking even the 2b can one shot dreg bruisers at range

[hearty panther]

IIb actually has pretty competitive maniac DPS

[sleek garden]

I have flak and unarmored on mine

to pick off bruisers faster

[sleek garden]

fair

I have marksmans focus on my lasgun build

It can let the 2b one shot with high stacks

One shot dreg bruisers*

[inner temple]

Yup

[serene bough]

2b if built right will 1 tap all common threats and 2 tap gunners

[sleek garden]

Right now I prefer the middle infantry lasgun

The classic one

[inner temple]

And its fun to be able to land crits and headshots in general because you can mow down a horde with the one that just yk consumes no ammo at all on crit. Good for helbore btw

[serene bough]

IIb is my workhorse weapon

Use almost always

[sleek garden]

I like it

I used to use it a lot

[ocean idol]

... and?

[sleek garden]

You can get some crazy damage at mid to long range

[serene bough]

Recon is more a bullet hose

[sleek garden]

in the psykhanium you can just walk backwards 10 feet with sniper and you one shot a scab gunner

[serene bough]

It pumps out great damage after the buffs

But I still like the marksman nature of the ilas better for farther engagements

[sleek garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/736413626214252705/1300254958620381214/Warhammer_40000__Darktide_10_27_2024_8_21_50_PM.png?ex=6720d50b&is=671f838b&hm=5ea0fe68da3f207c8261ab385ebe7f85c45fabf61f299894e58845c95fedc14d&

This was yesterday with the midrange kantrael

Notice the amount of weak spot hits lol

[sleek garden]

I swapped away from blue lasgun just because of the stability basically

ergonomics more than anything

I liked the strafing speed but the midrange one has the easiest recoil

[ocean idol]

People who use COLORS to distinguish guns always were weirdest to me

[analog yacht]

There's only 1 gun that breaks the color rule

[sleek garden]

blue tends to be the fastest shooting guns

graia infantry autogun is fastest

Blue helbore is fastest

Blue revolver is fastest

[ocean idol]

what that supposed to mean?

[analog yacht]

Green autogun is the slowest firing

[sleek garden]

I liked the medium tier lasgun because it has more stability and easier recoil than the fast tier lasgun

[tropic abyss]

you mean vraks

[sleek garden]

yeah whatever why did they have to change all the names

vraks infantry autogun

you right

[analog yacht]

I think it was to make it so all the fast ones are the same mark or something idk

I don't know the names well enough to confirm

[tropic abyss]

it used to be columnus

[orchid hemlock]

Maybe I should stop using the auto fire mod 🤔

Mine jumps like a bouncy castle

[tropic abyss]

all infatry lasguns are Kantrel, so it's not the pattern

[sleek garden]

I don't use the vraks infantry because I don't like having to do csgo recoil control patterns basically

[tropic abyss]

same, I use columnus

[sleek garden]

also the Columnus infantry can one shot scab shooters

Not to mention the Columnus has the cloth on the stock so it looks the coolest

[tropic abyss]

THIS

[sleek garden]

the heaviest infantry autogun honestly looks like stamped sheet metal

[tropic abyss]

I tried loving the Agripinaa but it lacks that piece of cloth so it's not as cool

[sleek garden]

Agripinaa has cleave

The bullets punch through

I like that about it

[tropic abyss]

yeah, but it's not as good as the columnus

certainly not as cool

and the cleave only works on chaff

[sleek garden]

okay but punching through a poxwalker to hit the trapper is still useful

[tropic abyss]

I guess, but I can kill both just as quickly with the columnus

plus, on veteran, you want a large ammo pool because scavenger

[sleek garden]

What are the marks of the infantry lasgun

I forgot them

they're all kantraels

[tropic abyss]

all of them are Kantrael pattern
heavy = mk VII
fast = mk IX
balanced = IIb

the lasguns I'd say are more even on the patterns than the autoguns

as in, they're more similar to each other

the autoguns vary a lot more

[ocean idol]

i wish you could changfe weapons mid mission

[sleek garden]

well if this is the case I misinterpreted 2b as the blue lasgun

[serene bough]

Full auto with celerity stim

The best feeling

2b is the blue

[tropic abyss]

IIb is blue, yeah

or kind of green, I'm bad with colours

[sleek garden]

I tried the Vraks autogun a while ago with weapons specialist and Deadshot as a one off silly build once it was ridiculous

[ocean idol]

yeah, IIb is too shaky

You either aim too slowly

or not using gun to full potential

So you mostly use it really close and with hipfire

[tropic abyss]

it's accurate enough for hipfire at least, but still not the greatest

[sleek garden]

I found it was really really good for the anti shooter role with the most ammo and still one shotting shooters

[serene bough]

Thing with the iib is you feel like you always need to fire fast to get use out of it

[sleek garden]

And high strafing speed

[ocean idol]

that's exactly what i said

[serene bough]

But slowing down shots slightly is still a good way to use it for longer ranges

Ye im agreeing with you

[tropic abyss]

I only ever think that when I testing a new weapon and it turns out to be shit

[sleek garden]

I feel that way for the ogryn weapons

Idk I can't get into the clubs

I like the power maul and the original shovel

[tropic abyss]

the heavy lasgun is probably the nicest, you just need to pair with it a good horde melee

[sleek garden]

Heavy lasgun has the coolest sound

[tropic abyss]

for ogryn I like the shield

[serene bough]

IIb and knife for the true carpel tunnel experience

[tropic abyss]

I don't like the knife

I recognise it's use, but I find it boring

[sleek garden]

I don't enjoy the knife much either

[serene bough]

Love knife because I value mobility

[sleek garden]

I liked clicking heads with it though

[serene bough]

I want to like tac axe but unfortunately I don't

[strange patrol]

Who are some reliable and reputable Veteran content creators I can watch?

[tropic abyss]

I like my shovel

[sleek garden]

Tac axe is the most fun I've ever had on zealot

[tropic abyss]

if someone calls themselves "content creators" they're probably not reliable or reputable

just play the game and learn that way

[hearty panther]

tac axe is just my fucken vibe man

[strange patrol]

I want to watch good players do the hardest content in the game out of curiosity.

[hearty panther]

i have to actively avoid using it all the time

[sleek garden]

I'm not quite sure

[hearty panther]

honestly just go on twitch

[sleek garden]

This is me with the catachan sword

[hearty panther]

lemme see who's streaming rn

[tropic abyss]

I keep telling myself I'll use the tac axe one day to see what's all about but never get to it

[sleek garden]

I have to go out of my way to choose something else

[hearty panther]

oh nobody

[tropic abyss]

the catachan sword is good, I used it on psycher before I got a decent force sword

[hearty panther]

lmao

[strange patrol]

I am, I will, but I also want to see who people recommend since I don't want to filter through all the random ones.

[earnest bone]

#ANTAXFORREWORKIN2025

[hearty panther]

anyway we've got a pretty good community on twitch for the game

[sleek garden]

There was a video on Reddit of a zealot using it and the attack speed was so high it was like 2 frames of the axe per attack

It was goofy

[tropic abyss]

the melee class can do some serious work with most melee weapons

[hearty panther]

https://youtu.be/is1rpZeTiBg?si=mMJkvBBLwflkbQgh

tac axe clutch

[tropic abyss]

but they have heavy competition from the eviscerator and the thunder hammer

[earnest bone]

Yes, at high attack speed taxe beats rashad in horde clear

[sleek garden]

Push attacking instead of spamming special is crazy

I jest

The tac axe on my zealot has like 30 bars of stamina

[hearty panther]

i stick to efficiency so i can toughness max

[sleek garden]

I don't play much zealot

Mainly because I haven't had a match without a zealot in a long time

And then I have to compete with the hyper knife revolver zealot sweats with my thunder hammer so I just play veteran

I steal their kills from a mile away

[tropic abyss]

knoifers really are something...

[hearty panther]

tfw i throw a knife at a sniper 50m away perfectly but my ogryn slaps it down with a kickback shot

[sleek garden]

I feel bad that the kickback is so good because the rippers and rumbler are so fun

I love shooting a grenade at a dude and it sends him flying

And then the grenade explodes

[tropic abyss]

the kickback is the perfect sidearm for a melee ogryn

[sleek garden]

And the ripper I use is the horde remover 9000

[earnest bone]

classic, add barrels sometimes too

[hearty panther]

its funny since the kickback is strong purely off its completely stupid base numbers, meanwhile it's the Achlys that should actually be the strongest since it actually synergizes with ogryns entire shooting kit ... but nope kickback is that level of overtuned lmao

[earnest bone]

also that shot deals like 10% hp damage

but ogryn is happy, probably

[sleek garden]

Yesterday I was playing in clandestium gloriana and my psyker teammate accidentally set off a barrel that launched a teammate off the wall

And the psyker stopped to say I hate barrels back to vermintide then left the game moments after I used my health stim on him

[earnest bone]

i saw multiple times when teammate #2 launched teammate #3 and #4 together off onto the moon in Gloriana

and there was me 30m away from these guys cuz i know

[hearty panther]

weeds out the weak

[earnest bone]

this could happen

especially if it's Gloriana +Barrels

[sleek garden]

I go into clandestium with the intention of setting off every barrel

[earnest bone]

it's like 6 barrels each m

[sleek garden]

there Will be a horde on the catwalks and I Will ignite them and blow them up

it is His will

[gilded wraith]

Which tac axe mk for light attack spam?

[umbral scaffold]

All of them really, if anything it’s up to you which you want for heavy attack combos or even special attack combos

[ocean idol]

ffs i hate pox gas missions

[gilded wraith]

Gotcha, wasn't sure if one of them had more horizontal/weak spot lights.

[hearty panther]

mk4 for light spam

theyre all diagonal sweeps and they all have the same damage and cleave profiles

so its very easy and consistent

[ocean idol]

Does anyone actually remmeber map names

like i have no idea what this is is

and i have 600 hours

[hearty panther]

i remember some of them

the numbers not so much

3,500hrs lmao

[ocean idol]

Infantry lasgun seems so much inferior to bolter and recon

[hollow ibex]

They’ve definitely been overshadowed

[ocean idol]

what are bolter blessings btw?

[loud flower]

Fellow vets, anyone has some advice on the combat axes? Never really used them but i want the mastery

[tropic abyss]

the bolter can't be used as your main weapon like the lasgun can

[hearty panther]

Infantry lasguns are just great starting guns

[tropic abyss]

the recon might be a bit too OP...

[ocean idol]

it absolyrely can

[inner temple]

depends. personally havent tried it but take the crit thing n yes

[full nacelle]

I don't think recon las is OP. Just good. You can kill everything with it but it isn't the fastest.

[viral bramble]

How bad is this skilltree? Using Spearhead Bolter.

[inner temple]

n if built right can still melt bosses and never run oput of ammo

[full nacelle]

you REALLY want exe stance for a bolter build

[ocean idol]

I was told that puncture is good on bolter?

[loud flower]

i like it enough

puncutre and the more damage on stagger

[viral bramble]

Nah I'm not playing Exe stance as long as VoC is so op.

[ocean idol]

??? surgial seems mandatory to me

[loud flower]

I dont really like it on the bolter. Most times you already one tap specials and two tap elites

[full nacelle]

There are two schools of thought with bolter. You go puncture for consistent breakpoints on some targets or you go surgical + deadshot for big crits that sometimes screw you out of breakpoints but usually give you better ones.

[loud flower]

and damage on stagger helps with crushers and bulwarks groups

[inner temple]

good against armor n everything.. if anything it needs less ammo in reserve.

[viral bramble]

Testing shattering impact atm on spearhead bolter, not impressed.

Surgical is always nice (and always on my spearhead/bistol.

[full nacelle]

but VoC is boring and it really hurts your potential as a bolter sniper

[viral bramble]

I don't care what's boring or not, I want to win.

[full nacelle]

then just play well, the game isn't hard

you can beat auric maelstrom with gray weapons

[viral bramble]

VoC makes my teammates immortal, would be foolish to drop it in solo

[ocean idol]

Or you can take both?

[brave cliff]

Honestly if you need a specific anything in this game to win it might be a skill dif

[ocean idol]

pinning fire does not seem to be that good

[full nacelle]

Whatever floats your boat my friend. I personally like a variety of playstyles.

[inner temple]

its great if your cc or in general melee

[full nacelle]

Yes, but on Bolter exe stance is REALLY good

I'm not arguing that VoC is bad. It's friggin broken.

[inner temple]

I agree

[inner temple]

legit. the 100 toughness with full regen is nuts.

50*

[full nacelle]

True but pinning fire is REALLY good on bolter... I think most folks always go for that as one of their blessings

honestly it's hard to go wrong on bolter

there's no perfect setup... they're all good

[loud flower]

100%

And being able to just test, just test out different set upts and find whats good for you

[full nacelle]

gold toughness is the ultimate crutch in this game and getting to spam it every 15~ seconds is absolutely ridiculous... but whatever, fatshark seems fine with it

[loud flower]

What are the go to blessings and perks for the rashad axes? Never used any of them

[full nacelle]

brutal momentum/headtaker... best vet melee ❤️

[loud flower]

on the mk III?

[full nacelle]

yep

and you want carapace and unarmored/elite

[inner temple]

on zealot as long as it was quick just doesnt give strong stagger like relic I would like VoC to be for zealot and even revive downed teammates.

[loud flower]

oh wow, that is different from what i was thinking

[full nacelle]

yeee it's a bit of a weird one... the breakpoints wizards figured it out

but everyone should have a rashad

you can slot it in to any build and it's good for everything

[inner temple]

rashad?

[full nacelle]

mk3 combat axe

[loud flower]

Rashad Combat Axe

[inner temple]

o yeahhh i hate combat axe lol

[loud flower]

i never used it because its.. its just an axe

in the game where you have the chain swords, force swords and cooler stuff

and i am more of a flavor player then a power player

all my builds follow some kind of flavor because i am a huge nerd

[inner temple]

I love tactical axe.. hate combat lol

[inner temple]

understandable

i use power sword and plasma gun in my VOC build

[tropic abyss]

shovel

[full nacelle]

I don't like the chain weapons and the infantry lasguns/helbores don't really do anything for me...

[tropic abyss]

I want to like the helbores but they're painful to use

[full nacelle]

I do have 20 vet builds that still use them though because I'm a slut for build crafting

[loud flower]

i love my helbore

use them since the beta

[tropic abyss]

as a spear?

[full nacelle]

helbore just feels clunky to me... I have a lot more fun with other special sniper guns

[loud flower]

my spear days are long gone since they were nerfed on VT2

[inner temple]

i love em. great for crits

[loud flower]

and it is the closest we have to a laz sniper

[inner temple]

plus fully charged they do more dmg than lasgun

[orchid hemlock]

LETS GO GAMBLING!!!!

[inner temple]

i have crit build anywayy

[tropic abyss]

lasgun is more consistent

[inner temple]

and crits is common for helbore

[loud flower]

Yeah but lasgun is boring

[inner temple]

this is true.. but bayonet

[loud flower]

helbore has more style

[full nacelle]

ok but laspistol is unironically the best lasgun in the game

and I find that hilarious

[tropic abyss]

who neds a bayonet when you have a torch?

[loud flower]

Heavy Laspistol really fucks

it can outdamage almost anything if used right

[inner temple]

its great i love it like bolt pistol i use it when i need a special killing weapon or long range but cant find one

[full nacelle]

I prefer fast firing laspistol

more crits

[inner temple]

tru

[full nacelle]

bolt pistol I only use in my grenadier builds

but it's good

[tropic abyss]

I find it weird that one of the missions in the game is about stealing ammunition from the heretics when laspacks can be recharged by sunlight

[tame lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-kazuma-kiryu-pissed-off-gif-14586175

[inner temple]

lol not on any zealot?

[full nacelle]

I don't even know what ranged weapons I use on zealot

been too long

[inner temple]

love yakuza series

[tame lodge]

Zealots can use LP to increase crushers special attack

[inner temple]

you know what to do then..

[full nacelle]

that sounds like heresy brother

[brave cliff]

It’s for all the ammo the one Columbus auto gun uses

[inner temple]

or a campfire if in a dire situation.

[tropic abyss]

when will fatshark let me use laspacks as grenades?

[loud flower]

Following that logic, if i ate one i could poop one out almost charged

In this TedTalk i will-

[inner temple]

please..

[inner temple]

probably

[tropic abyss]

infantry las has huge ammo pool
fully loaded + scavenger
regenerate a full pack each specialist kill
use it all as grenades
full grenadier build when?

[inner temple]

however for the most part your still issued auto guns on a smoggy planet which is inferior

[inner temple]

imagine slapping the las cartridge against the gun then throwing it as a nade.

[balmy flume]

To be fair those could be extra cool specialist shotgun shells (the super AP rounds/flame rounds some shotties use)

[loud flower]

wtf i am just one shotting if this axe

Wtf is this luke

[inland orchid]

combat axe doing combat axe things?

[full nacelle]

das the rashad

[inland orchid]

noice 👍

[full nacelle]

he a good boy

[stoic thorn]

Wheres my plasma carbine

I want a plasma carbine

[tropic abyss]

knowing the tactics of the imperium, they're probably artillery stuff

[stoic thorn]

The aquilons have it

Gimme one of those

[tropic abyss]

no way they would waste resources in getting infantry ammo, the guardsmen can fight with shitty refurbished lasguns

[stoic thorn]

Plasma cores probably

[inner temple]

yes

[stoic thorn]

Plasma cores, bolt shells

[inner temple]

"MY rifle has been held by many! but this is my rifle and it will perform its duty as I perform mine!"

[stoic thorn]

Special hand flamer ammo

We are probably stealing the higher end shit

[inland orchid]

hadron made my hand into a flamer, life good

[stoic thorn]

Lasguns can be recharged by sunlight

[balmy flume]

Maybe even specialist bolt rounds

[inner temple]

bruh haah

[stoic thorn]

But we barely see any fucking sunlight in our missions

[tropic abyss]

praise be the Omnissiah

[inner temple]

yeh we stealing experimental

[tropic abyss]

you have the desert missions with the mexico filter

[inner temple]

thats the beauty of it.. when trench lvl?

[stoic thorn]

That's only like a handful compared to the rest

[tropic abyss]

whenever a team is deployed there they stuff the backpacks of everyone with laspacks to supply the rest of the team

[stoic thorn]

Most of the time we are in buildings in the sub levels of the hive

[tropic abyss]

that's why the only cosmetic acessories are backpacks, they're full of laspacks

[balmy flume]

I mean one or two maps do start with Sun exposure...actually, I think its the maps for stealing and/or blowing virus, as well as the radio broadcast maps

That we get sunlight

[stoic thorn]

And I reckon there's not enough time for us to dilly dally and recharge our laspacks

Better to just carry spare mags and recharge them in the Mourningstar

We could also be probably be stealing melta fuel

[inner temple]

yuh

[tropic abyss]

laspacks are plentyful, the Mourningstar must have them by the millions

[stoic thorn]

We might be not be the special operatives they refer to

[balmy flume]

But yea laspack sun charging is quite slow

[stoic thorn]

But the special ops probably using the Meltas

Meltas tear through the monstrosities

More than our plasmas do

[tropic abyss]

they can just send a little shuttle to the nearest sun with couple hundred thousand packs, recharge it in a minute then come back for the next batch

[inner temple]

thats why the planets are falling in 40K were stealing all the las packs.

[stoic thorn]

Plasma cores could also be a hard find

[balmy flume]

Special operatives actually fighting actual Chaos Marines

the REAL reason why we don't run into them

[stoic thorn]

We could be stealing bolt shells for the fucking Deathwatch

The deathwatch are fighting the genestealers somewhere else

[inner temple]

"i hate plasma"

[tropic abyss]

when are we gonna get a plague marine boss fight?

[stoic thorn]

I believe it's the Ordo Xenos job to exterminate the Genestealers

[stoic thorn]

Over once I start pouring plasma shots into the mf

[tropic abyss]

you don't get plasma weapons, rejects can't be trusted with those

here, have a shovel

[inner temple]

speaking of which.. i wana fight genestealers or maybe tyranids

[stoic thorn]

Ordo Hereticus finds the Genestealer Cult, notifies the Ordo Xenos, Ordo Xenos sends in deathwatch Kill Teams

We are a branch of the Ordo Hereticus

But not sure why the Deathwatch didn't properly arm their operatives before sending them into Atoma

And we'd have to be scrounging up the supply train for it

And this would probably not warrant the secrecy

There's dialogue revealing that people like ogryns do know of Genestealers

[tropic abyss]

maybe the supply train isn't for supplying the imperium as much as it is for starving the heretics

[stoic thorn]

True

Zealots and zola refer it a "Blow struck by the Imperium"

[inner temple]

i remember hearing it aswell.

[stoic thorn]

We are possibly depriving them of trapper nets (probably not, just steal from the enforcer stations, they've got plenty)

Uh

Flamer canisters

[orchid hemlock]

Plague Marines would probably just one shot us lmao ☠️

[stoic thorn]

Maybe even more laspacks

[tropic abyss]

nurgling piss is probably flamable, that's how tox flamers get their ammo

[stoic thorn]

The Mourningstar doesn't have the capacity to fuel all it's Vets with Laspacks

But do you know who does have the Laspacks?

A well-equipped guard regiment!

So we're simultaneously depriving their most plentiful weapon and boosting ours

[tame lodge]

Nah power level wise we can kill it
It's just that Fatshark wants to keep Space Marines away from Darktide

[stoic thorn]

Yeah if we got crackheads beating up marines

[orchid hemlock]

Good

[stoic thorn]

Warhammer powerscaling crumbled

Chaos Marines too

Veterans of the Long War

[tame lodge]

The space marine pipeline

[tropic abyss]

beasts of nurgle are supposed be overpowered too, and we kill them in every game

[orchid hemlock]

Racist or Racist

Choose my child

[stoic thorn]

Chaos spawn and Plague Ogryns are at least BELIEVABLE

But we can survive our FUCKING SOULS BEING RIPPED OUT BY DAEMONHOSTS

Being tossed off Hive cities

Plasma shots if you're lucky enough to be HIT

A big rock to our head

[tropic abyss]

great unclean ones when?

[stoic thorn]

Yeah the rejects are OP

We could probably take on a Plagee Marine and WIN

Send the fucking death guard we will WIN

[tropic abyss]

nurglings when?

[stoic thorn]

Yea I want nurglings

[tropic abyss]

mods that make the beast of nurgle make dog sounds when?

[orchid hemlock]

4 crackheads versus 2k Asmongolds

[stoic thorn]

I want them to swarm the team and I die laughing because one of them moons me

[orchid hemlock]

Easy

[stoic thorn]

Hold as I find THE meme

I am unable to retrieve it

[loud flower]

ok what the fuck the rashad is just broken

[stoic thorn]

Please bear with this unfortunate inconvenience as I will describe what it looks like

[orchid hemlock]

Always has been

[hollow ibex]

Facilitates high skill gameplay

[pseudo fiber]

A chaos space marine has been killed by a spear before

[stoic thorn]

It opens with the caption:

Asmongold leading his followers to twitch HQ after his ban:

And the picture below is a picture of Mortarion, the Primarch of the Death Guard, being all stinky and edgy and shit with his plaguemarines following behind

[stoic thorn]

A custodes has been killed by a naked world eater

[pseudo fiber]

Power scaling is fake and the numbers don't matter!

[stoic thorn]

How many fucking captains does the Moebian 6th have ffs

How many have we killed

Astra Militarum regiments are large yes but there's not that many captains

Would be funny if it wasn't just the Moebian 6th rebelling

Other Moebian regiments too

Might be the answer as to why there's so many moebians in the Hive City

[pseudo fiber]

I mean only one rebelling is a bunch of idiots, a lot rebelling means there's been a severe systematic failure.

[tropic abyss]

Nurgle just keeps reviving them

you're killing zombies the entire time

[stoic thorn]

Average day in the Imperium

[stoic thorn]

Yeah tell that to the miniature sun I throw

Wait cadias in the fucking moebian domain

[orchid hemlock]

Tertium Nobles wondering why there are soo many cultists when they literally let half the population starve in bunkbed cubicals with no sanitization:

[stoic thorn]

If Cadias in the moebian fucking domain

Where was the Moebian 6th

During Cadia

[orchid hemlock]

Ur mom's house

Gotem

[stoic thorn]

I come home

And I find captain wolfer shitting in my toilet

I blame you all chat

[loud flower]

That feeling when people get downed and just alt f4 out of the game 🥰

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/its-peak-old-man-shaking-head-gif-3938163323164042530

[loud flower]

Its been happening more and more after the update, people just cant wait these days

[unborn shadow]

Sometimes you just land shit teams

[orchid hemlock]

For me it's the opposite.

If not even 1 minute in everyone is downed except me, I just leave 😎

[unborn shadow]

I prefer to clutch

Play Halo music and clutch

[orchid hemlock]

Nope, they don't deserve my clutch

[unborn shadow]

But you deserve the dopamine response of

"I'm better than you"

[unborn shadow]

Yesterday, my pal n I grouped up with two Psykers.

Friend went down, and the two psykers biolightninged a mutant to death.

Instead of picking him up.

Psyker then proceeds to talk shit bc I'm a "Speedrunner", before going down hinself

I was dying

[tropic abyss]

I don't understand people who seriously use Smite

that's the worst blitz in the game

using it for the panance is painful

[tame lodge]

Not really

Box is right there

[unborn shadow]

Yeah I disagree, smite is good

[loud flower]

I like smite

[tropic abyss]

box kills stuff, smite doesn't

[tame lodge]

Smite does

[loud flower]

Smite staggers a huge batch of enemies so the team can kill stuff

Its not always about you killing stuff

[tropic abyss]

kills a poxwalker after 3 seconds of palpatine cosplay

[tame lodge]

Smite does kill stuff

[unborn shadow]

Smite clears poxbursters instantly

[loud flower]

Takes cares of charing mutants, crushers, bulwarks

[tame lodge]

Crushers and bulwarks included when properly built

[loud flower]

anything other then a boss

[tame lodge]

Smite is a strong blitz that scales with enemy density

[unborn shadow]

If you're playing Auric and 6 bursters show up, Smite nofactora them instantly

[tropic abyss]

smite can't kill crushers or bulwarks, it can let the psyker pretend he's helping while someone else carries him

[faint beacon]

Enhanced Psionics Smite vs Rager Horde

[unborn shadow]

Exactly

[tropic abyss]

but it can't kill

[loud flower]

thats just wrong

[unborn shadow]

That's why you have a gun

[loud flower]

it can kill crushers and bulwarks, you just have to know how to use it

but still, it stops them

so other people can kill

[faint beacon]

Or hear me out the most brain dead build ever

EP Smite

[unborn shadow]

EP?

Oh enhanced psi

[faint beacon]

Enhanced Psionics Keystone

[loud flower]

Enchandes Psionics

[faint beacon]

Every elite and special folds

[loud flower]

it is what i run for my smite psyker

[tame lodge]

It can

Box just staggers

[orchid hemlock]

Lmao, expecting your team to kill anything that's a good one 🤣

[tropic abyss]

22 seconds
plus a stimm
you can't be serious

[loud flower]

And the better part, it has no damage falloff, so it can do that to a whole pack of crushers

[faint beacon]

Do it with EP stacks

[loud flower]

I mean, yeah, it is what i expect from the game

[tame lodge]

I'm dead serious

[faint beacon]

Show them how brain dead it is

[unborn shadow]

I prefer to use Smite in bursts

[tame lodge]

Smite is strong

[unborn shadow]

Smite ends by you force pushing enemies

[tame lodge]

Box can't do that

[tropic abyss]

thankfully I'm almost done with that shitty penance so I can never waste points on that shit blitz ever again

[loud flower]

Dont blame the blitz because you dont know how to use it

[unborn shadow]

So using smite to stagger, and then sticking them with a saber or a revolver makes crushers easy work

[faint beacon]

It’s beyond brain dead lmao

[tame lodge]

There's also the soulblaze version of smite

Which is faster

[ocean idol]

I wanted complain about something that been annoying me for al ong time in the game

but i forgot whati t was

[faint beacon]

Fucking EP Smite with what talent was it

• Wildfire if you feel extra silly

[loud flower]

So i will say it for you. LET ME KISS HADRON

[unborn shadow]

Yes

[loud flower]

she is the second best mechanicum

[ocean idol]

NO

I want to kiss Sefoni

[loud flower]

first one being the sexy one from the mechanicum book from the Horus Heresy

[unborn shadow]

[loud flower]

Yes i am reading all the horus heresy books, yes i am dumb

[unborn shadow]

Your request is unreasonable, varlet. Cease communication at once.

[tame lodge]

Important note
You don't need the stim to kill bulwark with smite

Just the proper build

And depending on battle meditation procs you can also kill the crusher without the stim

No damage fall off
Scale with density

(unlike box)

Give Ogryn 8 boxes

Promise I won't nuke PCs by spamming it

[inner temple]

Ogryn should have 8 boxes if not 6

Its mainly for CC anyway and armor

But also I can't play ogryn. Darktide crashes when I play ogryn..

[ocean idol]

I am reading Ravenor now, after Eisenhorn

[ocean idol]

Sefone >>> Hadron

[tidal spade]

What's the dump stat for the revolver?

[full nacelle]

mobility

[loud flower]

I believe the rule of thumb is every weapon that has mobility will have it as a dump stat

[broken spade]

you could dump reload if you play weapon spec

[loud flower]

True

[neon current]

yo, is deadshot bugged or something?

[pseudo fiber]

except the flamer

[neon current]

weapon spec deadshot bolt pistol, 11% crit, watface

[tall torrent]

no, it's just not worth 95% the time

[tall torrent]

could be a scoreboard bug

[narrow frost]

@tall torrent

thoughts

I saw deadshot mentioned and it make me remember my build

[full nacelle]

I like deadshot. Crits are fun.

[shadow dagger]

I know the 200hp +1 sniper resist is huge on paper but I genuinely don't remember the last time I ate shit on 1 wound to one

does it just come up way less than expected or am I getting babied by shout

[tall torrent]

Missing Rashad breakpoints & 10% atk speed
Deadshot
Exe stance doesn’t need subnodes
No rending for recon

I mean if it’s fun for u

[narrow frost]

deadshot

lol I know

did I get crit node

one sec

ah ha, I did

[tall torrent]

Ideally it doesn’t come up for u ever
It’s just that when it does happen you’re better prepared

[shadow dagger]

right

[full nacelle]

I run deadshot on a vraks infantry autogun build with stamina talents. Crits like a madman and keeps me from falling asleep while playing the vraks instead of the standard shout build.

I have to actually aim at heads and dodge and stuff

[shadow dagger]

I only remember getting jumpscared and oneshot on psyker when I refuse to quell under like 80% and the high peril sfx drowns out literally every other important one

I should probably get a mod to lower that things sound eventually

[narrow frost]

peril sfx in vanilla settings

[crude fiber]

Nah full immersion, get a mod to silence all other sounds when at 90% and higher

[shadow dagger]

weird how there isn't like an internal cooldown on that anyways

[neon current]

it must be, 8% without

oh I know

puncture

guessing it counts the bleed ticks as part of bolt pistol dmg

deadshot is hella fun with a crucian rulette fanning revolver too

[steady ibex]

Are the Shovels any good?
I find it hard to justify using them over, say, Heavy Sword or Dueling Sword, but I may be using them wrong.

[odd sparrow]

well built shovels just kinda mash left click

dealing decent dmg to everything a jack of all traddes

[orchid hemlock]

Shovels are very good low investment melees

[full nacelle]

Shovels are fiiine... but other weapons do what they do better

Rashad combat axe is better shovel with less funny bonk sounds

[shadow dagger]

I mean it's hard to use most things over dueling sword

[orchid hemlock]

Yes there are better weapons but you need specific nodes on the tree to enable them

[loud flower]

What nodes would that be?

[orchid hemlock]

Reci/desp/trench

[full nacelle]

Nah not really. A rashad with no nodes is still better than a shovel with no nodes.

[orchid hemlock]

@tall torrent we got another one smh

[shadow dagger]

rashad craters in value when chaff oneshots aren't consistent

[idle swallow]

base rashad swing speed feels too slow for me now

[full nacelle]

It oneshots chaff no matter what

[orchid hemlock]

Rashad without the 10% attack speed is 💀

[full nacelle]

it really isn't though, you just need to hit the dodge button between every few swings

still clears stuff faster than shovel

[orchid hemlock]

Yes yes, anecdotal evidence, yes yes

[full nacelle]

your example is anecdotal as well but ok

we can have different opinions

[shadow dagger]

don't you miss like

[orchid hemlock]

Sure but yours is still wrong, if you want to prove it correct start recording I'll wait 🧍🏻

[full nacelle]

Your opinion is also wrong. This is a fun and constructive dialogue.

[orchid hemlock]

No it's not

[shadow dagger]

scab bruiser ohk without unarmored or desperado/precision strikes

[full nacelle]

Yes it is

[orchid hemlock]

Nope

[full nacelle]

Yes

I love Darktide man

LMAO

[orchid hemlock]

Ah yes the troll in its natural habitat 🔍

[full nacelle]

every build runs precisions strikes or at least should

I mean all I said was that I think Rashad without nodes is better than shovel without nodes and your response was "no it's not, record evidence"

[shadow dagger]

shovel is just low investment low risk low brainpower

[orchid hemlock]

OK prove it

Still waiting 💅🏻

[shadow dagger]

sometimes a build needs strong horde control and not just killing power

[full nacelle]

How about you prove your point first. I'm fine with having a different opinion than you.

[orchid hemlock]

Put your money where your mouth is 🫦

[orchid hemlock]

Nah I'm good, the pinned guide already did it

[shadow dagger]

this is the part where the funny guide man doesn't show up until the fun is over

[full nacelle]

Rashad has some of the best horde clear in the game regardless of 10% attack speed

[shadow dagger]

sadge

[orchid hemlock]

Cmon, chop chop 😘

U all talk?

[full nacelle]

I'm the troll

ok

also thats a 100 page guide

would you like to provide a reference?

[shadow dagger]

it has links in it I think

links and chapters n shit

there's a word for this

hotlink?

[full nacelle]

I'm all for having a discussion but just going "You're wrong. Go make a recording of your opinion or you're wrong. There's evidence in a 100 page guide about why you're wrong."

is a bit stupid

[orchid hemlock]

I mean if you want to prove your point you need to provide something of substance

[full nacelle]

So do you!

[orchid hemlock]

Ah yes the good old "no u" excuse

[full nacelle]

LMAO

ok dude

[orchid hemlock]

I'm literally at jurry duty how tf am I going to do it? 💀

[shadow dagger]

I think the conflicting opinion has to provide proof to counter the consensus as like a general rule

but if there's no incentive to prove it then like idk

[full nacelle]

I'm literally doing other things rn as well... it's almost like we can have different opinions

[orchid hemlock]

True, it also is generally accepted that Rashad here needs talent nodes. So they are the outlier.

[shadow dagger]

yeah I'm saying he's the one with the conflicting opinion

[orchid hemlock]

Rashad discussion has been done thousands of times

[pliant kayak]

I have question about the guide

[full nacelle]

I mean I can just upload video clips of me having no problem clearing auric/auric maelstrom hordes with no talent nodes on the rashad but that would take a long time and I really don't care that much

[shadow dagger]

and yeah on the other hand idrk if this is like an opinion thing

[orchid hemlock]

Ah yes anecdotal claims once again 🥱

[pliant kayak]

If I don't take Rending Strikes on Infantry Lasgun what am I missing on?

[full nacelle]

And yet you provide no proof for your claims just spam derisive comments with emojis

[shadow dagger]

@tall torrent

[full nacelle]

as I said, I would love to read why you hold that opinion

but you're just being a dick

so

[shadow dagger]

he knows the guide stuff but yeah until he answers youll just have to run with whatever you decide on your own

[steady ibex]

You can clear hordes with literally any weapons though, so long as they're just chaff. Did you mean mixed hordes?

[full nacelle]

yeah I guess I'll go searching through the guide sometime and see for myself

[orchid hemlock]

I already told u to look at the guide, and again the Rashad convo has been done thousands of times u can check the history of this chat 💀

[full nacelle]

and I said that's a 100 page guide... do you have a page reference?

[orchid hemlock]

You want to contest that, be my guide but I'm seeing nothing from you but "no u no u no u"

[shadow dagger]

why are we even talking about this if we a) know that nobodys actually going to prove anything to the other and b) know that the actual guide guy is going to come and yap about the actual reasons

[orchid hemlock]

Lmao can u not read either? 💀

Go to the Rashad section do u think I have the speicifc page number memorized?

[full nacelle]

see all I've seen in this chat is "shovel is good without investment" without actual reasoning or proof

[shadow dagger]

i think rashad is on like page 20something

28? idr

[pliant kayak]

I could just tag him like that?

[shadow dagger]

i dont think it gives explanations

it just lists nodes and recommended stuff

[full nacelle]

wow

rashad

best horde clear in the game

ok

glad we got that cleared up

[orchid hemlock]

Holy shit dude u can read a graph

Amazing, incredible

Congrats

[full nacelle]

and I can't read actual reasoning because you won't provide it

[orchid hemlock]

[full nacelle]

you're too busy making mean comments 😦

[orchid hemlock]

I'm still waiting for the shovel vs Rashad comparison

Is it coming soon?

[loud flower]

It amazes me how people can act like this because of a game 💀

[full nacelle]

like I'm fine with being proven wrong, you're just being rude

[orchid hemlock]

Tru

[full nacelle]

yeah I don't get it

you're the one who made this hostile Orcka

[orchid hemlock]

Oh dear Luke looks like u can't read the room 😔

[neon current]

rashad is more dmg, shovel is safer and makes funny sounds, what else is there to compare?

[full nacelle]

and again you're being rude

[orchid hemlock]

I'm rude when you spam laughing emojis when I ask for proof and you say "no u"? 🤔

This isn't a conversation

[full nacelle]

I added a laugh emoji because you literally responded to my comment of "I prefer the Rashad" with "that's wrong"

and then I said "no you"

I thought we were having banter

turns out you're just a weirdo

it's fine

[shadow dagger]

iunno if im blind or what but im not seeing it

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah yeah, are we getting the comparison or is this conversation going to grind to a halt?

[shadow dagger]

are we still artificially extending this conversation

[narrow frost]

in interface settings

[full nacelle]

Apparently so

[orchid hemlock]

I honestly want to end it, seems like a waste of time

[shadow dagger]

we're looping 'if we're not gonna explain then we gotta stop talking' over and over

[orchid hemlock]

Did the audio settings get changed during the patch? 🤔

[narrow frost]

idk

[shadow dagger]

why is it not in the audio section sigh

[full nacelle]

I started this by saying "I'm fine with holding different opinions, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind yours"

I guess that was offensive

my bad

I'm done

[long basin]

Discord users trying to get the last word instead of pressing alt and tab to do something else.

[shadow dagger]

yeah ideally the guide guy pings you with like a bullet point list or something because i distinctly remember what orcka said was true but not why

[orchid hemlock]

It's not offensive, I'm literally just asking you to provide something with more substance than anecdotal claims and then you went on a tantrum 🤷🏻

[tall torrent]

Flak damage

[shadow dagger]

hopefully im here when thats all typed out

[orchid hemlock]

Impossible 😔

[tall torrent]

I mean, he’s not wrong
It is better, it’s just not performing optimally

[full nacelle]

I'm actually just waiting around to hear from @tall torrent because he actually explains things to me instead of going "you're wrong" and "make a video recording of your claim and prove it"

There we go!

Oh hey look, I was correct anyway

cool

what a productive conversation

[orchid hemlock]

In low investment? I don't think so 🤔

[loud flower]

no fucking way

Gets the one opinion it wanted on Luke being right, immediately disagrees with it

[shadow dagger]

honestly in this game theres no reason to optimize for any reason other than like feel

[full nacelle]

you said "provide video evidence of your claim or you're wrong" and I said "well then provide evidence of your claim too or you're wrong" and round and round the stupid train we went...

[shadow dagger]

and tbf attack speed is half of what makes a melee feel good

[full nacelle]

yeah honestly I totally get if people don't enjoy Rashad without attack speed... it does feel more clunky

but I prefer it because I know everything in front of me is going to die

[shadow dagger]

but i know some people really like that slow clunky melee feel

[full nacelle]

whereas shovel takes multiple bonks

[steady ibex]

I just tested Rashad and damn it does do pretty insane horde clear.

[orchid hemlock]

Right on what? Rashad being better?

I never disagreed with that.

I said that Rashad requires more points to be viable than Shovel with no points in the talent tree

[broken spade]

does shovel not also benefit from aspd?

[pliant kayak]

If you don't mind I would love for further explanation like will it take 1 more shot to kill gunner if I don't take rending strike

[full nacelle]

it does

[shadow dagger]

it does but the assumption is that shovel does horde control well enough that it doesnt need atk spd as much

[orchid hemlock]

It does

[shadow dagger]

while a lot of rashads horde control is just like killing power

[full nacelle]

the entire reasoning is just that the Rashad's base attack speed is a bit slow... it's still the better mixed horde clearing weapon IN MY OPINION

without nodes that is

[shadow dagger]

and more atk spd means more killing power

speaking of which, does hammerblow actually do anything on shovel or should i just be normal and run decimator

[orchid hemlock]

Stop the cap: #veteran-class message

[full nacelle]

wat

thats what I just said

[orchid hemlock]

You added "mixed horde clear" don't start back pedaling now

[tall torrent]

I’d still take a Rashad over shovel any day tbh

[orchid hemlock]

True love my Rashad as well

[broken spade]

pretty sure rashad would be even better in non-mixed trash anyways so i don't see why that even goes against his point

[hollow ibex]

Shovel goes THUNK though

[full nacelle]

how is that back pedaling? "rashad with no nodes is still better than a shovel with no nodes" = "rashad with no nodes is better at mixed horde clear than a shovel with no nodes"

ok I gotta block you Orcka I don't want to piss these people off

I'll turn you on later

sorry guys

that was very stupid

[orchid hemlock]

Ehhh, if you don't cleave thru the first target with BM and don't reach the breakpoints the wave clear dips in the first couple of swings

[broken spade]

rashad should win in any context where it can oneshot and trigger bm
unless shovel is somehow way better than i remember. haven't used it that much

[shadow dagger]

obligatory ":3"

[orchid hemlock]

Yes yes, go scurry off makes my life easier too

[full nacelle]

nah sadly shovel doesn't have much of a niche outside of having high stagger

[steady ibex]

I've used the shovel today for a few games and was not impressed to say the least.

[hearty panther]

do yall do skullcrusher + decimator

cause thats where its at

[full nacelle]

it sucks because it's a really fun weapon and the bonks are great but

[steady ibex]

Admittedly no

[orchid hemlock]

I prefer uncanny

[tame lodge]

Skullcrusher Trauma

[hearty panther]

trauma also fun

[full nacelle]

obligatory "anedotal evidence 😂 👌 "

[hearty panther]

really tho its the shout

shout = instant skullcrusher value

its ridiculous

[shadow dagger]

trauma? isnt hammerblow like The Impact Blessing™️

[full nacelle]

I love thrust with spike shovel

oneshotting crushers feels so good

[tame lodge]

Trauma keeps them on the staggered state for longer

They legit get up

And stand still

[orchid hemlock]

Why can't I just stagger them forever so I can bonk them to death 😔

[hollow ibex]

Mk1 shovel?