veteran-class

[austere mica]

Manstopper propaganda inbound

[buoyant thicket]

alright here's the real question I already have infantry lasgun, infantry autogun and boltgun masteries

what's the next weapon that won't be a pain in the ass

[candid agate]

how much plasteel you have?

[buoyant thicket]

68

will get some after I sleep

[candid agate]

good tactic for quick masery is buy a bunch of weapons of the weapon you want

then upgrade them all to green and sacrifice them

costs around 3k plasteel but is much faster

[buoyant thicket]

does it have to be the same weapon

does it give more mastery sacrificing same weapon type

[candid agate]

no but same weapon is much faster

average same weapon gives 3x the amount of mastery a different one would do

and it takes about 3 green same weapons for one level

[gilded wraith]

Running improved kraks... should I give up Iron Will for Demolition Team?... so very tempting

[tall torrent]

yes

[austere mica]

No

[tall torrent]

no

[austere mica]

Don't do that

Iron will is one of vets strongest nodes

[candid agate]

iron will is life blood for every build ever

[gilded wraith]

but but but... damage

[candid agate]

if you are dead how much damage can you do then

[gilded wraith]

back to iron will it is

[candid agate]

sacrifice one node you dont need and spend it on demolition

[gilded wraith]

very tight build sadly

[candid agate]

show me it please?

if its a VOC one then you wont need demolition as you will already have the 1 grenade per minute node

which is enough for a whole mission

[tall torrent]

oh this is easy

drop onslaught

u can save 3 points

[gilded wraith]

Fair, but nope. I like the feel of it.

[austere mica]

What gun

[candid agate]

what weapons?

[buoyant thicket]

got a new shovel this is better right?

[gilded wraith]

Was the Vraks V and the Rashad.

No clue what the new names are.

[austere mica]

Yes

[tall torrent]

ok then yea drop onslaught

get agile engagement

and demo team perhaps

[candid agate]

do you need onsalught for heavies if you have kraks already?

[tall torrent]

for Vraks V tho I'd grab 5% crit chance

[gilded wraith]

Depends on how many heavies.

[candid agate]

wait infantry or head hunter vraks

[gilded wraith]

and I love the two .25 stamina regen reductions

infantry

[tall torrent]

nah u don't need both

u don't even need a single one for rashad

[gilded wraith]

I'm crazy, but not that crazy

But... I can slide forever.. and ever.

[orchid hemlock]

asks for advice
rejects it

[candid agate]

hey the head hunter ones arent bad, they are just very tailored to executioner stance builds

[gilded wraith]

I'm like a zealot, with more bullets.

[tall torrent]

3x sprint efficiency does more or less the same thing

[tall torrent]

no, u gave up the rashad breakpoints

ur a zealot with half their atk speed bonus but the same dmg

[gilded wraith]

Respectfully, I asked for advice between two specific talents, and followed the advice.

[orchid hemlock]

other than recon, onslaught is just bad

[tall torrent]

it can be fun for Vraks V but it's usually just not worth

[candid agate]

so you run to the objective 100 metres away, die and then rage quit?

[gilded wraith]

I've seen it recommened on the gria... which has slower attack speed than the vraks?

[gilded wraith]

Occasionally 😉

[orchid hemlock]

this is what I do for Vraks

[tall torrent]

would drop superiority complex and +25% ammo for BID and 5% crit chance

[candid agate]

damn i have a similar build for my voc vrak build

just without the swapping damage talent

[orchid hemlock]

ive tried running lots of games with crit chance both from the tree and perks, I always feel like Im killing everything slower especially maniacs

idk if im unlucky

[candid agate]

if you feel you arent getting enough crits then deadshot maybe?

[tall torrent]

nah, not worth

[orchid hemlock]

HAHAHAHA nice one

[tall torrent]

it's not much slower than +25% maniac

and it only ever really matters for dreg rager

but u kill flak stuff faster

[orchid hemlock]

also this is assuming i have max stacks reci

[tall torrent]

and unyielding better dps

[candid agate]

reciprocity my beloved

cant believe i slept on it for like a year

[orchid hemlock]

doesn't elite also help kill everything faster than unyielding?

[tall torrent]

sorta but crit scales better

because crit string & finesse for this gun are just so high

[orchid hemlock]

well again that is assuming I crit, what are the bullet modfiyers for each crit proc?

[gilded wraith]

Is the string 2 or 3? I thought I saw 3 in the guide, but didn't a patch/nerf change it to 2?

[tall torrent]

was 4, SoMG nerfed to 3

[gilded wraith]

Wow, so still one of the highest strings?

[tall torrent]

ya

highest is still ogryn stubber

[gilded wraith]

Ahh, the flame thrower!

[buoyant thicket]

what's the assault chainsword dump stat

[orchid hemlock]

would u also take crit chance perk on non piety Zealot builds?

[buoyant thicket]

also one more thing, is this a good stat allocation for the DB?

mobility was the dump right?

[tall torrent]

I wouldn't take Vraks V if I wasn't going piety

[orchid hemlock]

what about scourge?

[tall torrent]

scourge is melee crit chance

[orchid hemlock]

oh nvm then 😔

it just says crit chance on the node

[tall torrent]

it's M.crit chance

in the code

fatshark tooltip

[inner temple]

What does stopping power even do? Is it like raw dmg or punch through? Guessing stagger tho..

[tall torrent]

damage vs most armor types
stagger

[gilded rock]

Changes depending on the weapon, but generally stagger, sometimes more damage

[tall torrent]

stopping power is always dmg related

[inner temple]

Ah ok

[tall torrent]

if it's only stagger, it's called collateral

[gilded rock]

Ahh okay

[inner temple]

I figured but like it'd be weird to have 2 other Damage stats no? Or is it just a multiplier at that point?

[tall torrent]

don't question it

there're weapons with 4 stats that all affect ur dmg in some way

[buoyant thicket]

how about this chainsword

[tall torrent]

usable

[buoyant thicket]

it'd be better if mobility was 60 and shredder 80 right?

[tall torrent]

sorta? not by much

this one is fine

[inner temple]

True. Especially since im farming out for a high dps build for vet to one shot basically anything. (Just testing it since I'm wondering how hard I can break it)

[buoyant thicket]

what does shredder even do

[tall torrent]

chain-rev dmg

[verbal burrow]

You'd want one with 60 mobility and everything else at 80

[inner temple]

Like.. could I have a better Bounty Hunter? Because if so that'll be crazy (don't tell yes or nos because I'm wanting to build this through trial and error as per most of my builds.)

[tall torrent]

one tapping every single enemy in the game = not practical

one tapping most priority targets = very possible

[buoyant thicket]

wow this is unlucky

how is my ocd gonna let this one go

time to spend more ordo dockets

[inner temple]

Yeah id run out of ammo too fast I'm meaning the actual game ender units. Crushers, bosses etc

[verbal burrow]

When you press the scroll wheel on your mouse, it revs up the chainsword. This makes the next attack do increased damage at the expense of rooting you to the target, which becomes stunned from the horrid agony it is enduring at the hands of the machine spirit of the blade.

You can also combine this with the overhead swing in order to produce what they call the removal of a mauler from amidst a horde

[verbal burrow]

This is acceptable

[buoyant thicket]

not for me

must be 60

[verbal burrow]

Respectable but keep it in the back

[inner temple]

But not a bad idea I'll make another loadout for that

[verbal burrow]

in fairness bosses are resolved with combat stims, tagging and krak grenades

That is why all the other classes bow to us in deference

[buoyant thicket]

curse the rng gods for this 59

[inner temple]

Quick combat stim. Sight in hold then activate ability one shot boss yes-yes?

[buoyant thicket]

I will set fire to their garden

[inner temple]

Yes

[tall torrent]

veteran cannot 1 shot boss

veteran can speed kill boss in <10s

but no "one shot"

[tame lodge]

5 + 9 equals 14
14 / 2 equals 7
7 is nurgle's

[inner temple]

Close enough its a one something. But maybe if I do it right and get lucky. Maybe I'm just testing how broken I can make my dmg

Even if it turns into a 'one trick' loadout

[tall torrent]

veteran 1 shot boss in damnation is not really a thing

unfortunately

the highest single hit on boss u can do is like

16k

with full dmg juice

[inner temple]

Shhh

[tall torrent]

but plague ogryn is 60k health

[inner temple]

Allow me to make my meat pie

[tall torrent]

and the other 2 bosses are around 50k

[inner temple]

Actually what even is your cat pfp have on its head.. oh English. Anyway. Is it cauliflower?

[buoyant thicket]

looks like cauliflower

[inner temple]

Definitely cauliflower

Thought it might've been some white flowers

[analog yacht]

Great news about cauliflower

[frank ether]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1229594268021293106/1232520604956229653/IMG_6739.gif?=

[mild hill]

Mb I forgot my rations

[unborn moss]

havnt played this patch yet hows bolter feeling?

[hollow ibex]

very nice

[unborn moss]

pog

[mild hill]

I can see

Big improvement

[thorn plinth]

Southpaw moment

[wild vortex]

is it a bad idea to use Marksman's Focus on a bistol exe stance build?

[austere mica]

I mean

You can do this

But thats about it

[wild vortex]

that's kinda impressive

but basically Focus no good?

or okay but not optimized?

[austere mica]

You don't need it

[unborn moss]

pinning fire shattering still good?

[austere mica]

You can hit breakpoints on basically everything you need to except ogryns

Deadly accurate is a hell of a drug

[wild vortex]

okay

I kinda need to make some progress on that stupid penance

and I'd rather do it with a real build than crouchwalk psword nonsense

[fossil basalt]

what's the mark breakdown for helbores?

[wild vortex]

and I've been hunting for a gun that feels good for exe stance and I stumbled upon bistol

[austere mica]

Oh have I got the thing for you

[wild vortex]

[tall torrent]

yea, probably

[wild vortex]

damn

[tall torrent]

for that penance

u farm kills in mercantile starting area

crab walk

[mild hill]

Helbore

[tall torrent]

zarona shotgun if u must

[wild vortex]

[austere mica]

Will enable the penance without you wanting to die

Spam special shells into crowds at head height

Profit

[wild vortex]

special shell eh

[austere mica]

Yes

Wide and perfectly flat spread

[wild vortex]

hmmm

and crouchwalk mandatory?

[austere mica]

Nope

Stand upright, stacks will accumulate the fun way

You need to be standing to actually clothesline stuff anyway

[wild vortex]

what the bananas does this mean

[austere mica]

Idk

[hearty panther]

if you aim down sight it loses all cleave

[austere mica]

Fuck

[wild vortex]

oh shit

[austere mica]

Hold on

Testing this

[wild vortex]

basically never ADS the shotgun eh

[hearty panther]

no you should always ADS it

i do not believe this affects the special

[wild vortex]

oh

[austere mica]

I'm going to test it anyway

[hearty panther]

and you dont care about ADS with the special anyway

ADS boosts finesse on shotguns and tightens the choke, its pure value normally

[austere mica]

In this case its needed for crit chance

But I will do some science

[hearty panther]

manstopper deffo ignores this

[tame lodge]

Agri likes aiming down sights

[wild vortex]

[austere mica]

Spread difference is effectively negligible and cleave is still manstopper level

Also handles gunners easily

[stoic mantle]

Rejects, what are good blessings on the bolt pistol?

[wet ether]

Bahhh bloody hate it when Psykers use guns

Puts a bigger strain on the ammo economy as it is

[mild hill]

Surgical puncture

[stoic mantle]

Yeah, fuck parker!

Thanks, wire

[wet ether]

Auto correct moment

That was

[austere mica]

Surgical Deadly Accurate

[austere mica]

They also turn literally everything into swiss cheese

[mild hill]

Leave my play style alone the Econ can handle one more gun

[tall torrent]

Lethal prox + puncture

[unborn moss]

`

this good or should I swap a blessing out havnt used bolter in a long time

[tall torrent]

Change shattering impact to puncture/surgical
upgrade flak to t4

[unborn moss]

oh yea forgot locked slots unlock after the patch

[potent canyon]

I've got an interesting build that doesn't feel like it should work well but shredded in my last lobby. Brauto with exec stance and weapons specialist. Exec stance reduces the spread, weapon specialists boosts up the RoF and damage absurdly. Using out for blood and inspiring barrage for toughness regen.

Anyone got other fun meme builds to try?

[wet ether]

i know that but thats if there using scior gaze no?

[teal siren]

Depends

I wouldn’t say it’s necessary

There’s a lot of damage boosts psyker has access to

[unborn moss]

is the weapon swap speed talent new or did I just never look at that part of the tree

[analog yacht]

I believe it's new but still very niche

[unborn moss]

might feel nice on bolter my main issue is the pull out speed

ill test

[cyan anchor]

What lvl do i gotta reach with guns to empower them? like whats the max lvl

[hollow ibex]

to empower to 500 you need mastery 19

[vapid nacelle]

I still suck at Veteran but Laspistol my beloved

[grave hawk]

any1know how to get the mod loader and stuff working

[unborn moss]

had to update mods until it worked wasnt getting an error for a specific one

[grave hawk]

i meant setting it up

keep getting error

nvm

xbox has different file setup

figured it out

[primal zealot]

Mods ? On Xbox ? What sorcery is this ?

[grand perch]

ive used the achlys combat axe a little bit, just to remind me how sad it is. that thing has never been good at all, i hope it gets a buff at some point

[radiant chasm]

They just need to rework it so h1 isn’t the only sweep

[analog yacht]

xbox game pass probably

[radiant chasm]

Just make it reverse of the other two, heavies for clear lights for single target, and take it a step further and make PA a stab or something

[peak salmon]

what does stopping power on a plasma gun do? is that ideal dump stat if I want to do charge shots?

[orchid hemlock]

It stops them :🛑

[peak salmon]

I assumed it was stagger but wasn't sure

[primal zealot]

Depends on the weapon lol

[orchid hemlock]

Stops the

Permanently

[primal zealot]

Stops the what

[sturdy herald]

It stops the permanently, obviously.

[primal zealot]

Oh the the

[wooden moat]

thats every gun

[primal zealot]

On the every gun stop the permanently ?

[vapid nacelle]

I concur

[manic moon]

its simple , you shoot them - they die - they stop existing and stop....permamently

hold on

[thick kestrel]

interestingly WAAAAY back it was kind of identified and used as the primary combat axe before the Rashad for a little bit.

funny how things work out.

if memory serves it was due to older breakpoints before various adustments... it used to hit better benchmarks before the Brutal Momentum rework

[sly fern]

Is Bolter better off with Executioner Stance or Voice of Command?

[pliant kayak]

I somehow got this by using shotgun. Is this game like Payday 2 where if you manage to hit every pellet your accuracy stat goes up beyond 100%

[thick kestrel]

voice of command kind of works with everything, so if you want to run boltgun with that it's perfectly reasonable.

however... boltgun with Exe Stance feels VERY nice... the bonus damage and handling lets you do some very fun precision work.

there's something special about going into Exe Stance with a bolter and just turning heritics to clouds of mist in quick succession :>

[austere mica]

Nope

I got it when I was running dbarrel and realized that my accuracy for the last several missions was like 99.5% and then decided to just empty my ammo one mission

[green willow]

should try shotguns just to complete that penance

how do you get on overwatch

[thick kestrel]

I do wonder how the pellets affect that blessing... presumably you just need to make sure every shot hits at least one enemy for the accuracy?

[austere mica]

Accidentally

[thick kestrel]

or do you need to score full pellet hits

[austere mica]

One pellet needs to hit

[thick kestrel]

neat! time to get my exestance shotgun loadout back out then :>

[austere mica]

As long as you get a hitmarker after pulling the trigger it counts a hit

[green willow]

what's the go to rager repellant

[junior hawk]

it turned into 71 t.res 69 c.rate x)

[thick kestrel]

can't go wrong with a devilsword.

Parry and the Rager's Gone

[orchid hemlock]

Imagine not just screaming at someone and them falling over 😔

[ocean idol]

THRUST on DS

automatic trash

also scatter shot with weapon specialist

10 iq moment

[manic moon]

yeah this build is so random i cant evne criticise it

like not seeing the bigger picture behind it

you take sword and teh shotgun which does the same hting

you randomly pick the "op stuff" from nodes

then he takes marksman on left for weakspot when he could take CQK on the right for general 15% bonus

yeah overall this is the classic case of "i just clicked abilities i like" build

and scattershot with specialist is....yeah buddy

[orchid hemlock]

Thrust is good on DS what

Like sure I would prefer riposte, but thrust is perfectly viable with uncanny

[sturdy herald]

Except they don't?

In that build, you use DB's quick swap to clear paths, deal with short-to-mid soft targets (ranged elites, specialists), and keep Agile Engagement and Weapon Specialist up on demand.

Not sure why he went with One Mind, though.

[orchid hemlock]

WS I literally only use for the melee bonus I don't really care about the range bonus hald the time

[ocean idol]

no, it is not

It literally does less damage than you would by just spamming heavies in the same span of time

[analog yacht]

You can hit your breakpoints without it

[orchid hemlock]

I mean that it is good as a blessing in comparison to all the DS blessings

[ocean idol]

thrust is good on things that are slow

t-hammer, chaxes

On DS thrust literally decreases your dps

[sturdy herald]

To be clear, is this your build?

[analog yacht]

Agile, precog, riposte

[orchid hemlock]

Also on Zealot it probably is BIS with riposte

If you are going piety

[analog yacht]

Ok but you're not zealot

[orchid hemlock]

It is also an important breakpoint maker for Psyker

[orchid hemlock]

Thrust is better than half of the other Blessings on the list that DS can take

[sturdy herald]

Just because it works well for a class doesn't mean it necessarily follows the same patterns everywhere. That's not really an argument in its favor in this instance.

[orchid hemlock]

It's a good blessing

[analog yacht]

.

[orchid hemlock]

I'm not making that argument, I am saying that thrust is a decent blessing out of all the blessings DS has

[analog yacht]

Sure

[sturdy herald]

Our squirrely friend here has the right idea, you know.

[orchid hemlock]

#veteran-class message

[analog yacht]

I mean like the other guy said earlier he has uncanny so it doesn't really matter

[orchid hemlock]

Even path agrees with me lmao

[sturdy herald]

No one's saying you can't pick Thrust or that it's not fun, but if you're looking numerically it offers very little benefit in comparison to heavy thrust spam.

[ocean idol]

No, again, literally spamming heavies nets you way higher dps

[orchid hemlock]

It doesn't really matter on the build, because uncanny is what already does enough with all of the melee bonuses they are getting

[sturdy herald]

If it doesn't matter, then why are you getting so defensive about it?

Relax, choom.

[analog yacht]

Path is saying that thrust being bad doesn't matter bc you're running op blessing in the other slot

[ocean idol]

no "little benefit", literally worse

[orchid hemlock]

Bruh

Maybe that copy pasta was right, yall just enjoy saying something is trash even when nobody is disagreeing with yall

[sturdy herald]

Isn't it a little funny you asked us to tear into this build, but you won't take any sort of constructive criticism?

[orchid hemlock]

This is not my build

Did yall read the convo?

All I said was "thrust is a good blessing" and yall started making shit up about what I said

I then clarified that it was "in comparison to all of the shit blessings you can take as DS"

My lord, I would never take thrust on Vet with DS

But this isn't my build

I am just trying to justify saying that it nearly isn't as bad as some other things they could have picked

[sturdy herald]

This is literally what you said, and multiple people have come out as saying it actively lowers your damage in comparison to other blessings.

[orchid hemlock]

My lord

Riposte, precog, and uncanny are not the only blessings u can take on DS

[analog yacht]

It depends how you're using it tbf

[sturdy herald]

"It isn't as bad" isn't the same as "It's as good a blessing in comparison to all the DS blessings".

[analog yacht]

If you precharge for an armored rager or something it's fine I guess

[orchid hemlock]

Stop I never said that

Sementics

[sturdy herald]

I literally quoted you, my guy.

[orchid hemlock]

🤓 👆🏻

[sturdy herald]

🤷

[orchid hemlock]

Nah this guy is a troll

[analog yacht]

This does pretty obviously read more "out of all the blessings thrust is in the better half" than "thrust is the best out of all of them"

[orchid hemlock]

"good" is not "BIS"

[analog yacht]

There are some pretty ass blessings that thrust is better than

[orchid hemlock]

At least how I define it

Ussually means like above average

[analog yacht]

I do agree that it's bait

[sturdy herald]

I mean, obviously.

[ocean idol]

Why people get so defensive about thier opinions, holy shit

[analog yacht]

Idk that said saying "Thrust is good on DS" with a hidden asterisk that reads "*on non vet classes" probably wasn't the move

Considering the channel

Easy way to get misinterpreted

[orchid hemlock]

Hey my dude, your the one who started getting mad about me saying DS is "good" 🤷🏻

[ocean idol]

Blessing that does nothing is better than thrust that actively harms you

[ocean idol]

NO, you started getting mad

[analog yacht]

You can use thrust in ways that aren't harmful

[sturdy herald]

Scattershot on the DB, though, I will defend that choice.

[ocean idol]

By never holding heavy i suppose

[orchid hemlock]

When someone says thrust is good POV:

[ocean idol]

nah, pointless with weapon specialist, you have reliable 100% crit

[orchid hemlock]

Suuuuurreeee 🙄

[sturdy herald]

C'mon, man. Don't get petty just because people have a different opinion than yours. Your voice is just as loud in the chorus of people getting indignant.

[orchid hemlock]

That's why you immediately called it trash when you saw the build

[sturdy herald]

Here's my take on it: the first shot you have 100% crit on via WS, Scattershot lets you pump a second shell into a crowd with almost guaranteed crit. I often find myself needing two shots to clear packs of mid-range gunners on Damnation.

What else would you put on it, out of curiosity?

[analog yacht]

Ok but it is bad in the build though

[ocean idol]

deathspitter obviously

[ocean idol]

... why calling a thing trash means someone gets angry? wut?

Or are you THIS sheltered?

[orchid hemlock]

Like it says a lot that after seeing the entire build after multiple hours it was posted, the first thing that caught your mind was thrust.

Not the pathing to Agile, taking Always prepared on a double barrel, not taking tinkerer with Krak, not taking Close Order or Confirmed, not taking maniac on DS.

No it's the thrust blessing

[analog yacht]

It is at the top

[orchid hemlock]

So we need to get personal? 🤔

Huh

Cya

[sturdy herald]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I don't see the problem with Always Prepared on the DB, it's amazing.

[ocean idol]

LMAO, yeah, you ARE sheltered if you think of this as insult

[sturdy herald]

Grenade Tinkerer doesn't help with breakpoints, just boss damage -- and this build is point-starved enough as is. Personally I'd just take smoke grenades and save another point, get the second +25 Toughness node, or put it into Close Quarter Killzone if you really want that overkill damage.

Or path down to Bring It Down.

[ocean idol]

Actually with DB i would definitely advocate for smokes

no other way to deal with snipers and far away gunners

[sturdy herald]

I'm definitely falling in love with Smokes ever since I switched to them on my own DS/DB build.

[ocean idol]

How do you use them?

[sturdy herald]

Use them to block doorway line of sight, on top of the team (or where the team will be if we're moving), or behind us to cover pushes.

[orchid hemlock]

Using sheltered as an insult sounds like someone who is sheltered would say 🤔🤔🤔

I am very smart 🧠

[sturdy herald]

I watched a meme smoke grenade Veteran build completely lock down the train snipers on Rolling Steel, and it was eye-opening.

Instead of getting pinged from six cars down by a lone sniper, he had to run up and try to kick us instead (it did not end well for him).

[ocean idol]

In my experience of other vets using it, most of the time they hamr the team more thna help

Just blocking all visions so we can't see 15 specials and 23 elites coming from that direction

also 7 hordes

[sturdy herald]

I will say this: out of all three of the grenade options, it's definitely the one with the highest skill floor.

I do wish the smoke was less dense, though, or that it got rid of tox gas clouds.

[ocean idol]

I think i am using it failry well, i have not come up with smart usages for it, but i don't use it when not needed

at thing is, you just don't need it often

may be like 5 grenades total per average Auric mission

[sturdy herald]

I don't know, I find myself using it more often than not, but then I'm of the opinion that I paid for all these free rechargeable grenades, so I should use 'em.

Also useful to cover a hack objective or a revive.

[ocean idol]

No, no gas clouds, but extinguishing fire pools would be cool

[sturdy herald]

That would be equally cool.

[dense willow]

Anyone got a fun executioner's stance lasgun build they'd like to share? I have no idea how to build vet

[ocean idol]

That is one of the easiest builds to make. Just take ev erything related to crits and finesse

[thick kestrel]

I tend to run mine broadly like these, adusting the keystone depending on how I'm feeling at the time.

it's broadly generalist shooty with a lean in on various survival nodes and some utility.

there's a good argument to try and get Determined on there for additional anti-supression but it is worth noting that Exe-stance while active does protect you from it as well... depends how you consistant you'd like it to be.

highly recommend bringing along a more survival focused melee weapon with it. folding Shovels are my personal pick as they also give you a solid anti-carapace option.

[dense willow]

ty

[dense willow]

I'll do some testing to see what works for me, thanks

I was thinking of running a knife for survivability

[thick kestrel]

all good! the "classic" infantry lasgun with headhunter and deadly accurate works nicely for it

that could work, I'm just more partial to shovels/devilswords/shockmauls as defensive melee picks as they don't need a ton of investment in melee nodes to be solid

and tend to be good picks against some of the problem opponents like Ragers, Crushers and certain specials

the Folding shovels in particular with Thrust/Uncanny are just a swiss army spade of giving you options and covering gaps that exe-stance builds tend to have.

also they go bonk on the flat stikes :>

[dense willow]

I'll give the shovel a shot

[ocean idol]

too bad it sucsk now in comparison to other options 😦

[dense willow]

headhunter/deadly accurate is the way to go these days?

[thick kestrel]

eh, only playing the meta is how you burn out

[ocean idol]

yoiu mean give shovel a... shove?

[dense willow]

hopefully it kills

[thick kestrel]

not the only, but it's certainly strong.

headhunter/ghost is a good option as well, marksman's focus works reasonably well at getting you bonus finesse to make up the damage if you're comfortable with headshots

it's not perfect, but it's not nothing

[dense willow]

what's a good pairing for the power sword?

[dry cloak]

anything

[thick kestrel]

if you mean the blessings? power cycler is still by far the gold standard. most people then mix it with Brutal Momentum or Sunder

[dense willow]

I meant a good secondary to go with power sword but the blessings are good info to have

[dry cloak]

anything

[thick kestrel]

I admit to being less familar as I'm not a personal fan of the powersword's play style. got the mastery and now it can sit pretty in the weapon's locker.

[dry cloak]

i mean i use unpowered for mulching hordes and it does good

[thick kestrel]

the powersword is kind of like the offensive inverse to the defensive melee weapons I mentioned above.

it stands strong pretty much regardless of what you're doing with very little investment.

[dry cloak]

especially with bromentum

[thick kestrel]

the downside is that it relies on being charged to really work and has some poor defensive charactaristics, so can have trouble if you end up in a poor situation. low dodges and bad block charactaristics.

[dense willow]

anything with bromentum is good

[thick kestrel]

of course if you kill everything... that's less of a problem ^^

[dry cloak]

it does not rely on being constantly powered

not for horde

for armor yes

[dense willow]

what curios do you fellas run?

[thick kestrel]

fair enough on that mark, but it's still heavily tied to that charge mechanic overall

[dry cloak]

helf and toughnes

[dry cloak]

yes.

im an advocate for power sword rework

to being a meter based weapon.

[dense willow]

2h 1t?

[thick kestrel]

I run 1 health, 1 toughness and 1 stamina, with additional health and toughness on the minor traits. basically shoring up my health over 200 and getting toughness up between 170 and 200 depending on build.

main goal is to provide surviability for when things go wrong :>

[dry cloak]

yeah

[analog yacht]

2x HP for 200 HP for pox bursters then 1x toughness. Perks
1x sniper res for 98 damage snipers
1x gunner res bc gunners
3x sprint bc sprint and stamina good
3x ult cdr bc it scales well with 6s off on special kill
1x toughness

[dense willow]

I've been running 2t 1st on zealot because I realized that health on zealot is a cope, not unlike wounds

[analog yacht]

Could swap toughness for another gunner idk

[dense willow]

Vet's a squishy bitch so health doesn't seem bad

I don't think the dmg res stacks well

It's multiplicative I believe

[analog yacht]

Multiplicative is good

[dense willow]

like percentage based

[analog yacht]

Multiplicative is better than linear

[dense willow]

not additive

Multiplicative is the wrong term then

[analog yacht]

Each gunner res increases a gunner's ttk by 25% of the previous

For a total of 1.25^3 ttk

[thick kestrel]

basically my current all rounder spread, there's a couple of gaps but I value stamina rather highly for personal taste.

[analog yacht]

That said 1.25^3 might be excessive

[dense willow]

apparently

[analog yacht]

I just run one bc there's other stuff doing damage to you

[dense willow]

it's additive

[analog yacht]

0.8 * 0.8 = 0.64 is true but it's misleading imo

0.64 means it takes gunners 56.25% longer to kill you

.8 is only 25%

[thick kestrel]

does the trick for "melee" stealth builds, toughness is 171 on Exestance loadouts due to missing the melee toughness node.

[analog yacht]

Anyway the pox burster and sniper breakpoints are important

Sometimes a mutant throws you into one

Or whatever else

Even if you skip the sprint efficiency and ult cdr get the 200 HP and 20% sniper

[dense willow]

The most common way I take damage is some smoothbrain killing a burster I'm about to shove

snipers can be unavoidable though

sniper - gunner - whatever is what I run on zealot

[analog yacht]

200 HP means you can survive 3 bursters from full or 1 from 1 wound

It's a lot but the 200 HP is also for the sniper

You could just go >196 for the sniper breakpoint

But why not go the extra bit for that pox breakpoint

If you want to run a stamina curio you can replace an HP curio and then run HP in your perks

But it's way less efficient

Usually better to take the stamina delay talents

[ocean idol]

Why the guy took bloodletter?

[dry cloak]

Brcause he can

[grand perch]

hes a medieval doctor

[wicked epoch]

is it worth getting the combat regen and the extra toughness as curios persk

[earnest bone]

why people run flesh tearer and lacerate? you know the answer

[wicked epoch]

4% combat regen on all 3 curios have to pile up to somethin right?

same with the 5% toughness

[analog yacht]

They add to 12% cdr

3.6s off shout

Which doesn't sound like a ton but when you stack it with the specialist kill refund it becomes significant

[earnest lodge]

12% more shouts every game

[analog yacht]

It's more than that is what I'm saying

[earnest lodge]

You are correct

[analog yacht]

Like just raw it's 1/0.88=1.13x but if you assume two special kills per shout with the talent then it's 18 to 14.4s

Which is 25% more shouts and more importantly 100% uptime on shout overshield

[wicked epoch]

how about the toughness thing

[sour patrol]

So previously I mentioned that I had 530+ hours on Darktide with not a single second on veteran

That was a misrepresentation and I apologise

I actually have 716 hours of Darktide without a single second on veteran 🤡

[dry cloak]

fair

[sour patrol]

Sooooooo any tips for levelling and what’s the default shout build xd🤣

Also, did vets get heavy sword?

[dry cloak]

dont play with shout. youll get a small pp that way

[dry cloak]

yes

[sour patrol]

I know there’s prolly a better melee option but I’ve been playing too much heavy sword zealot so

Can it work on vet?

[dry cloak]

combat axes

tac axes

yes it can work if you go weapon specialist

and as always try every side of the tree and dont get stuck with plasma shout

[sour patrol]

But I’m guessing the good old Rashad is just better?

[wheat gate]

anybody can tell me why are lasguns worse in general

compared to autorifles

[dry cloak]

they are not

[sour patrol]

Ofc, the shout playstyle feels like it’ll get boring after a while lmao

[dry cloak]

its good

[sour patrol]

Like

[wheat gate]

Hellbore is especially ass

[dry cloak]

plasma shout vet is the most braindead playstyle in the game

[dry cloak]

you dont know how to use it

[wheat gate]

Tell me how

I want to hear it

[dry cloak]

exe stance and go sniping

vigilant autos are worse than helbore

[wheat gate]

There is no such thing as sniping

in this game

[dry cloak]

yes there is

[wheat gate]

no there is not

its all close range engagements

sniper kind of gun makes no sense

[dry cloak]

yes it is. its called go click on heads

[wheat gate]

You can do that with any gun

[dry cloak]

yes

i use helbores on regular basis and i do well with them

[wheat gate]

Which one is best

[dry cloak]

brown one

if it feels off try the other 2

[wheat gate]

And what blessings

do i put on it

[dry cloak]

surgical

other one is of your choice

before the patch weight of fire was go to

also shock trooper is a must with helbores for ammo efficiency

[analog yacht]

Rashad/DS + revolver if you want to sweat. Vet gets so many damage bonuses and then shout + iron will gives you basically all the defense you need

[wheat gate]

Shock trooper is kind ofass

[dry cloak]

with helbore you go for a crit build

as with all lasguns

[sour patrol]

Niceeeee

[analog yacht]

It is pretty fun tho

[sour patrol]

No heavy sword/weapon spec melee build?🤣🤣🤣

[analog yacht]

Agile engagement + weapon specialist + always prepared and you're swapping weapons a lot

Which is a fun play style

Idk I'm sure you could slap heavy sword into it

[analog yacht]

This is ass

Bro what

[dry cloak]

this is my main build

[winged hedge]

looks fine but id probably take shout

also no agile?

[dry cloak]

shout is for pussies

[analog yacht]

Nah need that 1 bleed stack instead of agile

[dry cloak]

missclick

[winged hedge]

the 1 bleed stack is good for knife

which is probably the best melee weapon

but agile is too good to pass up

[dry cloak]

knife is not the best weapon

[winged hedge]

mk6 knife is busted

[dry cloak]

yeah its good

[ocean idol]

Braced gun vs vrak autotgun,. which is better for horde?

[dry cloak]

aprip braced

[winged hedge]

braced prob

[dry cloak]

eventually graia braced

also agrip infantry is best for horde out of iags

[winged hedge]

braced autoguns are for people with impuse control issues

I like them a lot

they're best for zealot though. i probably wouldnt use one on a vet

[dry cloak]

weapon spec

[analog yacht]

Cookie cutter vet for revolver + whatever

Maniac + unarmored on revolver

With the usual blessings

[ocean idol]

Why?

[winged hedge]

thats a better build

[analog yacht]

You might not need the rending talent depending on your weapon

[dry cloak]

if you want more dakka

its shoots faster

[analog yacht]

It gives DS 2x headshot vs crushers though

[dry cloak]

shout = trash

[analog yacht]

Without needing uncanny

[winged hedge]

shout is probably the best ult in the game

[dry cloak]

because it is

[ocean idol]

But agripina has better cleave?

[dry cloak]

yes

[winged hedge]

its preference. i prefer agri

[analog yacht]

Shouts dominance is exacerbated by the other vet ults being ass

(I'm exaggerating but )

[winged hedge]

i like executioner's stance

i think infiltrate is undertuned though

[analog yacht]

Both the other ults are just fine

Totally usable but very underwhelming

Exec is probably more usable

[ocean idol]

Is graia braced any better than vraks auto though..?

[winged hedge]

exec is definitely usable

infiltrate feels awful compared to zealot stealth though

[analog yacht]

Yeah if I was gonna play stealth I'd go play zealot

[winged hedge]

stealth zealot is madness

[analog yacht]

Idk the thing is that exec seems overkill when I can just go the above build and still top frag elite and special kills

What's exec doing for me

[dry cloak]

vet stealth is better

[winged hedge]

exec is for wiping the screen of shooters

nobody does it better

[ocean idol]

and stealth zealot is way worse than charge zealot

[winged hedge]

exec vet is better at ranged control than anyone

[dry cloak]

yes it is and vraks iag users are boikissers

[analog yacht]

I mean the secret here is I don't play stealth at all

[winged hedge]

stealth zealot isnt worse than charge zealot, they're both really good

all the zealot ults are great

[ocean idol]

So why you are not using it? 🤔

[sour patrol]

See I kinda feel like this conversation boils down why I never started vet after 700+ hours 🤣

Either because of balance or whatever

The moment a build has no shout

It becomes real ass in the eyes of other players, and generally becomes harder to pilot

[dry cloak]

because braia better

[analog yacht]

Just play this with ds and revolver trust 🙏

It's broken as shit but it's so much fun

[winged hedge]

exec with an IAG or a recon lasgun or a bolter is fantastic

try it

its gonna feel dumb and bad at less than auric 5 just because there isnt enough shooter density but at and above that its extremely viable

[analog yacht]

I do always appreciate someone cleaning the lesser ranged waves

Definitely the most annoying thing to deal w/ with what I'm running

[winged hedge]

most classes arent that good at managing them

so having someone who is specialized in it brings value

[shrewd basin]

Hey, all! I just got back to the game. Where can I find goof vets builds? I'm kind of lost as of right now.

[winged hedge]

just go down the middle of the tree

try other stuff from there

there isnt really a reliable compendium of good tested vet builds

[analog yacht]

The most recent pin is a really good resource

But it's not really just handing you a build

[shrewd basin]

roger. Thanks for the tips

[analog yacht]

If you just want something to play with try this https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9d587c42-8cac-492b-9a6e-9655af8192fb/cookie-cutter-vet-2

It's really strong but in a way that engaging bc you gotta weapon swap a lot

[winged hedge]

what do you want to do with a vet

[ocean idol]

but this one is 2 bosses

i never seen this happening in 600 hours

[winged hedge]

happens pretty often on maelstrom

or used to

[ocean idol]

Agile is actually really fun to use

[scarlet pelican]

yo its u

[ocean idol]

Is tehre any use for Lethal proximity explosions/

[shut talon]

weapon spec double barrel shotgun blessings:
is it still manstopper + both-barrels/Scattershot?

[scarlet pelican]

btw anyone use Helbore lasgun? it seems nice but i also come from zarona

[shut talon]

I'm figuring if going something else is better bc scattershot seems redundant with weapon spec crit, and both-barrels is redundant with always prepared

[ocean idol]

yes

same opinion

[full nacelle]

You throw grenades and they do bigger boom

[ocean idol]

i said explosions

primary effect

not increased radius of grenades

[dry cloak]

its really nice

[full nacelle]

oh no just makes you stagger things in a larger radius

[full nacelle]

It's a very love it or hate it gun... Personally, as someone who uses every gun in the game and has 20 builds on vet alone... I hate it

[buoyant thicket]

I wish we could get rolled sleeve outfits like the scab shotgunner has on vet

[full nacelle]

super clunky in auric missions to constantly be charging shots

[buoyant thicket]

show off the chadvet mooscles

[full nacelle]

the day we get sexy chad vet skin is the day I whip out the credit card

[ocean idol]

skissue

[buoyant thicket]

why do the heretics have a more varied glove selection than us

[ocean idol]

you mean sexy ogryn

[buoyant thicket]

aswell

also the soldiers onboard the mourningstar have different gloves we didn't get yet

fatshark the asset is already in the game I need a loyalist moebian 6th recolor

we need the rolled sleeves

[green willow]

I need that drum shotgun

[buoyant thicket]

I need the stubber and the volleygun

that fucking vet mural with the belt fed and smug ass cigar guy is epic

[full nacelle]

too many better special snipers in the game for me to care about the helbore

[green willow]

he is fucking ice cold

that gun...

[full nacelle]

ogryn always sexy

[green willow]

looks like a warhammered SAW

with the charging handle of a maxim

i need it

[ocean idol]

How does it interact with Tinkerer btw?

[full nacelle]

It just does. All it does it make your grenade explosions bigger so any grenadier nodes become better too.

[ocean idol]

BRUH frag radius with both tinkerer and lethal proximity

[ocean idol]

... no, depending on how it interacts with it it is either 50% relative to the default grenade, or 56%

not big diff, b ut still

[ocean idol]

here i threw grenade right under my feet

[full nacelle]

Oh you meant the radius increase. You gotta be specific man.

[ocean idol]

i meant what else

don't see point in using it with krak

[full nacelle]

you'd be amazed the things people do

some even use it with smokes

[ocean idol]

lol

[inner temple]

I do. Even use the replenishment of nades on smokes. Its actually pretty good. Just iffy against anything running at you still better to have something.

Got 17 gunners from afar but you can't shoot them because they're targeting you? Smoke teammate down? Smoke. Hell smoke when you even hear a bullet.

[full nacelle]

so do I, don't tell him

[ocean idol]

these situations are too rare

[hybrid barn]

Hey so I installed the game after being gone for like months so uhh are there any good builds for the vet?

[ocean idol]

and even without improved radius

[scarlet pelican]

Ah lol

I also rly like sapper shovel mk1

[inner temple]

It basically just makes any ranged a trash unit. Because snipers can't do anything and you can deal with them without them killing anyone, you can deal with any ranged without taking dmg and its overall useful while you're being horded by bulworks have 3 snipers etc. Just in general range ive had 12 range units stack up and nobody could deal with them so I smoked. Its useful but gotta just use em they're not dmg they're a semi support.

[scarlet pelican]

I unironically love the krieg weaps idk why lol

[full nacelle]

that's the most important part of any weapon... if you enjoy using them, use them

personally I just really don't find the helbore fun but some folks can get around the charge mechanics

[scarlet pelican]

sometimes it can feel slow but it being a lasgun and easy crits makes for almost infinite ammo

with that talent

forrgot the name

[inner temple]

Yeah I find it good to just get crits or take off a gunners head. Use it with smoke and you get easy 8 shots on any unit. Plus it one shots basically any trash shooter

[ocean idol]

what are these potato zealots doing in auric

[scarlet pelican]

Btw has anyone noticed armorbanes T3 and T4 is like a code description?

[tame lodge]

What weapons/abilities?

[hybrid barn]

I honestly don't know, before I went inactive I went for a braced autogun spray and pray build which idk what vid it was

So what weapons are currently more recommended?

[sly fern]

is the 30% faster weapon swap good for bolt gun?

[lucid heart]

you dont need it but i like it

good quality of life

try it out in the shooting range to see if its worth it for u

[sly fern]

tbh i didn't notice it too much, but 30% is still good.

[lucid heart]

a good way to test is to see how early you can shoot

i swap weapons a crazy lot and i dont really have a great spot to place that last skill point so i just put it in the faster swap

loses some value if you run exec stance

[umbral scaffold]

I WISH we had FN STUBBER LIKE IN THE FN PIC HOLY SHIT

😭

[green willow]

we have all the reasons to have lmgs

[thick kestrel]

it's mainly due to the crossover with ogryns having the Twin Stubbas.

don't get me wrong, a sort of "emplacement" class of guns would be neat to have. terrible accuracy on the move, near-immobile while braced for more precise shooting...

the closest we kind of get are the higher capacity braced autos

[umbral scaffold]

which is mediocre at best

[stoic thorn]

Optimal perks and blessings on the plasma?

[thick kestrel]

more a style clash, the braced autos are fairly decent weapons and do have some rather nice points

it's just they clash role wise with the Vraks mk5

(close range dakka)

[tame lodge]

Gets hot Rising Heat

I don't remember the perks

Elites Flak?

Unarmored Elites

Flak Maniac

Yeah?

[umbral scaffold]

me when i hit 80 and my alzeimers starts to kick in front of my family

[terse idol]

Elite cara iirc?

You don't need unarmoured for plasma

Just elite for dredge gunner bp

[umbral scaffold]

unarmored for plasma wouldnt that be absolutely abhorently overkill?

[solemn niche]

I like to use smoke when there is big ammo pack so nobody can see I took it

[terse idol]

Not unless you don't meet the dredge gunner bp

[umbral scaffold]

oh yeha fair

[inner temple]

Understandable

Because you only had 1 ammo missing

[umbral scaffold]

forgot dredge gunner isnt 1 shot unless you build close for that on higher diffs

[inner temple]

Yup

[solemn niche]

you can headshot oneshot if you have focused target

[umbral scaffold]

its so weaird its like the toughest unarmored guy arround

[quaint kettle]

Never really messed around with it but I'd like to try a stealth vet, like down the right tree. How do you go around building one, whats important for that build

[umbral scaffold]

everything else is unyielding naked or small fries

[terse idol]

That is true it's just not convenient

Better to run +elite

[tame lodge]

Low profile and Agile Engagement

[thick kestrel]

yeah, you want to lean a little more into the melee veteran general style and look to grab weapons with high amounts of burst damage.

you use the stealth as survival tool in most cases, instant 100% toughness recovery, then use the 10 seconds or so of low profile to burst down priority targets while you've got the space

the Vraks mkV IAG and the revolvers do good work for that job.

it's actually a space where I would recommend raking fire on some weapons as well, as it's one of the ways you can actually force getting behind enemy packs quickly and reliably to have it active.

(Vraks IAG with dum-dum and raking fire does pretty damn good work)

[quaint kettle]

do you run any modifiers on infiltrate?

[thick kestrel]

Low Profile

[hollow ibex]

the double charge subnode is good as well

[thick kestrel]

the one which gives you 10 seconds of reduced threat when you de-cloak. it's VERY powerful thuogh also kind of high risk as you basically push all the aggression onto your team mates.

so you need to make those 10 seconds of freedom count

be it through taking down an elite pack from behind quickly or going for a risky res of a downed player

[quaint kettle]

I see

[thick kestrel]

it's mostly a good behaviour thing honestly, you move all the agro to your team for 10 seconds, only fair you put in the extra effort to make sure that risk is rewarded

(it's kind of like loner for Zealot, you can be a good loner zealot who's using it so you can dive gunners, hunt specials and go after more distant objectives...

or you can be THAT zealot... the one who uses a knife and loner to try and speed run the mission solo and ends up getting everyone overwhelmed.

admittedly don't see those guys as much as I used to)

[quaint kettle]

I see

I def have seen them in pubs before

kinda sucks when they say "this is just how the build works"

[solemn niche]

if you pick 10s of reduced threat it can be a good idea to tell your teammates beforehand

[quaint kettle]

when you can be an insane team player with that build

[solemn niche]

just so they dont get surprised when the crusher patrol suddendly turns around in their direction

[quaint kettle]

Can I ask if I can see your infiltrate build so I can see what perks you picked and ask why?

[hollow ibex]

eh unless you're on vc with buddies i wouldn't bother

they should be able to handle themselves

and the ult's voiceline is already a heads-up

[thick kestrel]

to fully note this can almost certainly be optimised further, but this is my general go-to for the infiltrate loadout:

wait... no... that's the old one

one sec

I made the tweak to swap demo stockpile in favour of demo team, only because this loadout uses smokes over regular grenades.

I'm sure others would make different picks though

[quaint kettle]

why the left tree at the top?

*right

seems like going down the middle to reach the grenade wouldnt lose much and frees up 3 points

you can put a point towards stamina in the middle then reach the weakspot node in bottom left tree right

[thick kestrel]

kind of a personal preference honestly, the extra 5% movement speed, faster weapon switch and bonus toughness do help reasonably often

the weapon switch is mostly because I'm not personally too fond of the revolvers for a playstyle in most cases, so that gives me some more flexibility to play with other toys.

just feels nice with the Vraks IAG and chainsword combo >_>

[full nacelle]

anyone who uses Infiltrate, lets you take full aggro, and sits around in stealth doing nothing while saying "thats how the build works"

doesn't actually know how infiltrate is supposed to be used

infiltrate is an amazing ability that lets you pop off and kill all the major threats for your team

[thick kestrel]

I think Sajurf was meaning more the loner knife zealots in that case, but it does indeed also apply.

[full nacelle]

Yeah hurts me to see either way

[plush current]

How y'all feel about shout revive? I personally think it's a clutch ability if you can sustain without using your ability rapidly

[full nacelle]

and there's not really one infiltrate setup... you can go infiltrate with melee or ranged and infiltrate works completely different depending on if you go into low profile or hunter's resolve

[full nacelle]

it's bad... you want to spam the ability as much as possible to make the most use out of golden toughness

people won't go down in the first place if you do that

[thick kestrel]

less bad and more... overshadowed by the alternative...

the short cooldown of Voice of Command (relatively) and the power of over-toughness kind of makes it a hard choice to take.

[plush current]

Yeah but what if you have a Zealot constantly topping your toughness off. In the heat of Auric if someone gets clipped by a net and downed it really makes a difference to he able to revert that mistake instantly and keep the 4 man.

[full nacelle]

they won't be putting you at gold toughness which is the most broken mechanic in the game

[thick kestrel]

for however much we love it, there honestly is a genuine point to be made that Voice of command is WAY overtuned at the moment due to that toughness bonus node

[full nacelle]

VoC is absolutely broken. If anything that node makes it more balanced.

It makes it worse if anything

[plush current]

Meh, the people I see who survive solo on Auric don't take much damage in general.

[full nacelle]

longer cooldown, much smaller radius

[verbal burrow]

Good afternoon Veteran chat

[regal smelt]

shouting more means way less of a chance for your teammates to go down because yellow toughness is broken op, not only does revive shout have a longer cd but you end up holding onto it more rather than giving teammates more yellow

[full nacelle]

Probably because they have gold toughness. The people who don't take damage on auric probably aren't having trouble dodging trapper nets or playing away from the team where that leads to being downed.

[verbal burrow]

Need to combine it with a Zealot who gives the entire party +15% Toughness damage resistance in order to truly balance it out

[plush current]

Nah I get that, but when someone goes down especially in Auric it tends to be a dominos effect. Shout revive on multiple occasions seems to stop that. But I see apparently toughness is popular

[verbal burrow]

Slowly we approach the same level of unkillable hell as my premade Ironbreaker + Foot Knight + Handmaiden + Warrior Priest party

[plush current]

Just saying in High Difficulty you shouldn't take damage or you go down instantly usually.

[verbal burrow]

And I, as the person who bestows the boon of toughness upon the team, disagree

[full nacelle]

Golden toughness specifically is just plain broken. Being able to keep it up much more and spread it to your teammates much more easily makes the game mind-numbingly easy.

[verbal burrow]

They die when I say so

And I don't

[hollow ibex]

revive shout is a total noob trap

[verbal burrow]

It is

[plush current]

I can see their toughness bars. It ain't gold that gets em through

[verbal burrow]

It assumes that your teammate is already downed, which means you failed to keep them up

[quaint kettle]

Honestly I really think the downsides to the shout revive make it one of the worst skills in the game as it makes one of the best weaker

[plush current]

Bro in auric. Failed to keep them up?

[hollow ibex]

yup

[plush current]

I can assure you people get separated some times. I cannot control mutants throwing

[hollow ibex]

even if they do go down

[verbal burrow]

It is my mission, bestowed upon me by the benificent God-Emperor of mankind, to keep their toughness bar full

[full nacelle]

If you're not on a team that can provide gold toughness then of course gold toughness isn't getting them through it

[hollow ibex]

gold shout will let you revive them safely in most circumstances

or gold shout + nade

[verbal burrow]

That's why I use the shitty Covering Fire talent to refill their whole toughness bar with a single plasma shot to the horde that is eating them

[hollow ibex]

so revive shout is just hurting yourself in 99% of scenarios

[plush current]

You seem to misunderstand me. I've had to spectate people who win without gold health

Their skill is what wins

[hollow ibex]

they would've had an easier time if they could keep spamming voc for gold toughness

[verbal burrow]

There's nothing wrong with being skilled. I am here to molley-cuddle the remaining 99%

[stoic thorn]

Love me plasma

[thick kestrel]

mhmm... the big question is how to fix and balance Voc longer term... because emperor knows that's a pox grenade we'll have to pull the pin on at some point

[stoic thorn]

One shots gunners on malice

[plush current]

Y'all must have no toughness if you need gold to stay alive

[verbal burrow]

Increase the amount of toughness it yields from +50 to +100

[full nacelle]

And you seem to misunderstand me. Games are won much easier when you can constantly spam the most broken ability in the game to keep the most broken mechanic on all your teammates up constantly.

[regal smelt]

yeah its arguably the best way to get someone up, but having a tanky ogryn or invisible zealot do it instead while you give yellow is even better. if the teammate is in such a bad spot that a full health invis zealot or ogryn cant get them then its not worth it anyways. that domino effect happens when people are pressured to revive someone that is in way too bad of a spot, not because theres less combat ready players

[stoic thorn]

Currently grinding for another plasma that is the godroll with charge on dump

[hollow ibex]

do you miss the point as much as you miss headshots?

[plush current]

I stay up no problem base toughness in Auric, until I'm last man in which I make a dumb mistake and die, but the gold health is not necessary y'all are just made of glass

[verbal burrow]

What about putting the Camouflage song by Sabaton on Loop and running invisible Veteran with the rez speed talent and 3 stacks of rez speed on your curios?

[stoic thorn]

I use executioner stance because I need to see what mfs I need to plasma

[verbal burrow]

exe stance also buffs plasma really well

[regal smelt]

only worth it when fatshark releases a purple vet armor set

[stoic thorn]

I don't use the one that highlights all the ranged enemies though

[verbal burrow]

you mean a purple heart vet armour set

[full nacelle]

Congrats! Now do it with gold toughness. You can pretty much unplug your keyboard and turn your monitor off and make all the stupid plays you want.

[stoic thorn]

Clutters my screen a shit ton on higher diffd

I do miss the voicelines on VoC

[plush current]

Nice jeer btw, almost made you seem smart.

[full nacelle]

The point isn't that the ability becomes bad when you take the revive perk. The point is that its broken without it and actively nerfs it when you take that node.

[verbal burrow]

I am low key considering switching from The Professional to The Loose Cannon for his VoC lines

[plush current]

Actively nerf implies it's effect is bad. An instant revive is not bad people will go down and that makes it your job to get em up quick and easy

[verbal burrow]

Loose Cannon is also the closest thing English has gotten to how people used to speak in Amsterdam before we were colonized by rich people and expats

[stoic thorn]

Waiting for a cadia stands voiceline

[plush current]

You're probably the type to leave people to die, I like reviving and keeping peeps in the fight

[regal smelt]

if they nerfed voc with a big cd then it would be a huge voiceline buff

[stoic thorn]

My goofy ass would go out of my way to revive someone

[verbal burrow]

I also maintain a no man left behind policy

[hollow ibex]

i mean multiple people are disagreeing with you. idk what else to say at this point lol.

[stoic thorn]

Because I can basically deal with anything over there

Hordes? Shredder frag and cleave my way through with the chainsword

[full nacelle]

No. Actively nerfs means it is worse than before, not that it is bad. You know what else helps with reviving people? Keeping them alive in the first place with gold toughness and bigger faster knockdown.

[stoic thorn]

Elites?

Executioner stance and plasma away

[verbal burrow]

I will fucking die before I get into that Valkyrie without the squishy that contracted a booboo

[quaint kettle]

Mister smilez I think you misunderstand what many of us are saying, while its true that players can often get through without gold toughness because of skill. Skill does not exist in a vacuum, sometimes bad spawns happen, the director spawns the one mob you are bad at dealing with. When everyone goes down in a small area shout is amazing but thats trading away the 90% of the time gold ytoughness is useful even as insurance for a maybe 5% of of the time where its clutch

[full nacelle]

Yeah no it's fine to have your own opinion Mister Smilez but now you're getting defensive when literally everyone has told you that it's generally agreed to be a bad node

[quaint kettle]

a nerf to the uptime of gold toughness is absoutley a nerf because the downside happens far more frequently than the upside

[ocean idol]

I wish chsword was good

[quaint kettle]

I hope that explained my opinion well, sorry if I worded it poorly, I can elaborate more if needed

[full nacelle]

Not to mention, you're completely ignoring the fact that getting to play like a complete idiot with gold toughness lets you focus on being an absolute mindless killing machine. You don't have to dodge. You don't have to reposition. You don't have to play smart. On my VoC/Born Leader build I just sit in the mob and left click until everything is dead. You don't get to do that without gold toughness crutch.

It's a stupid overpowered mechanic

[crimson wyvern]

"Auric storm survivor" level 23 dude, hogs every medikay and ammo we get all game, get to last boss, leave him dead and trapped, all heretics down. 👍

most toxic loner vetern ever

and still played with shout???

hes on some crack

[regal smelt]

its ok if you got an ogryn to babysit you constantly lol. just rev attack the crushers and muties that last more than 2 seconds around him

[quaint kettle]

wouldnt something like this save some points while keeping it as a pretty good elite killer with some points to spare?

[stoic thorn]

I love the mk13 chainsword moveset

[regal smelt]

what color is that one

[thick kestrel]

yeah Chainswords are fine, the Rev is kind of specific and niche but the general toolset they have is solid.

[plush current]

I agree to this entirely, but the flaw I find is in your perspective. Numbers wise it doesn't compare. Cause you're right, bad luck does happen, but the assumption that approx 50 extra toughness is better to get them through the monstrous wave the Ai director concocted is better than fighting it out and giving them back top health one corruption and full toughness on revive. They will go down gold or not. I will get them up in the heat of the fight. Gold wont.

[sleek garden]

i think professional has the advantage in exec stance thoughg

[slow spade]

gold toughness prevents you from taking hp damage no matter the source

[full nacelle]

Do you not know how gold toughness works?

[sleek garden]

cant miss, won't miss

[slow spade]

so its actually better because its just straight prevent death

[verbal burrow]

ye

[plush current]

One crusher and gold is gone. The second one and your down

[slow spade]

you act as like that's a "gotcha"

[thick kestrel]

to a degree aye, there's just some more personal preference picks I much prefer. agile engagment over the bleed for example and I prefer to take the reduced stamina delay node on the right hand side of the tree.

[hollow ibex]

it's a gotcha for some people

[slow spade]

that's a glowing endoursement of Duty and Honor

[regal smelt]

"CAMPOSSWOMPOSS"

[plush current]

That happens all the time! 2 pox bursters a bad trapper an unlucky hound and flamer

[slow spade]

seeing quickplay players, it probably is

[full nacelle]

Gold toughness doesn't save you from taking two back to back crusher overheads in a row. Must not be that good.

[hollow ibex]

use VOC to knock back crushers, still manages to take two overheads before clearing the crushers

[slow spade]

that's why you have the 9m knockback from VoC

[full nacelle]

But also, auric players never take damage

[hollow ibex]

VOC bad, please buff

[slow spade]

which revive shout reduces lol

[quaint kettle]

understood, but why not the +1 stamina node in the middle of the tree then?

[plush current]

Still have it with revive too

[full nacelle]

Reduces the radius

[hollow ibex]

just 50% slower

[full nacelle]

comes up much less often

[slow spade]

read the next comment below

its reduced

[full nacelle]

Why would I build my vet shout around my teammates dying when I could just run infiltrate and do a million other things on top of being a clutch king?

[plush current]

Getting closer is a quick remedy

[regal smelt]

I always take the hp or movement speed over that stamina. if I really need stam then a single curio does enough

[slow spade]

besides this argument for revive shout has been done to death since Patch 13 like a year ago

its not even like a numeric thing

[hollow ibex]

what a stupid hill to die on

[thick kestrel]

I tend to run a +3 stamina trinket and use that as an excuse to have the 5% extra movement speed, combined with the aura the 10% faster movement feels nice considering how close range the loadout is.

that's 100% a personal pick though, switching for that extra +1 stamina is perfectly reasonable)

[slow spade]

its demonstrated to be a worse pick

we need no further evidence than revive shout's performance lol

[hollow ibex]

man just let him run revive shout

[quaint kettle]

ah makes sense

[slow spade]

if you argue to make a shit build, people are going to say its shit

its not that complicated

[full nacelle]

Yeah at this point I'm tired of your attitude. You're just wrong dude. I'm sorry to tell you but outside of that 1% of situations where you're getting a 3-man rez off and your gold toughness shout wouldn't have helped them prevent that situation (which is never), revive shout is just a worse shout.

[hollow ibex]

no i agree, it's just been going on for a while

and he clearly wants to die on this fucking hill for some reason (revive shout didn't save him)

[slow spade]

ah only been here for like a minute

classic green leaf

"wow these vets that have played for years and have access to data upon data of games. CLEARLY must be wrong"

reminds me of the old "guys every vet but me can't make Recon good" before the recon buffs

[hollow ibex]

i don't like bullying newbies too much, but if multiple no-lifers on this discord are telling you you're wrong, maybe you should reconsider

true for any game

[slow spade]

indeed, at the very least revive shout isn't out of the way to get

god VoC's position on the skill tree is peak

[plush current]

Glad you feel vindicated.

[thick kestrel]

eh, again playing purely for the meta is just a way to burn out.

sometimes you need to try the random other stuff just to add some spice.

[quaint kettle]

The reduction is to the radius of the shout, drastically reducing the total area it covers. This makes it pretty difficult to revive large groups in a clutch situation its ideally used in unless they are all grouped up. The reduction is 33% of the radius, reducing it from 9m to 4.1 meters as well as the 50% cooldown nerf

[thick kestrel]

even if it isn't optimal

[slow spade]

indeed, I'm saying that its super flexible

[full nacelle]

Thanks man. If you have any more questions or opinions you'd like to share be sure to do it in a friendly and constructive way.

[slow spade]

so you can compensate in other ways

[thick kestrel]

mhmm

[plush current]

Me and my attitude will go revive players so they can fight on instead of watching your spectate screen for 5 minutes at a time.

[full nacelle]

Nobody cares man

[slow spade]

like revive shout with big grenades so basically guaranteed revives

[full nacelle]

you enjoy your revive shout

just don't be mad when others think its less good

[slow spade]

to be fair, there are a lot of barrel deaths