veteran-class

[sand oracle]

Objs as well

Stealth zealot is a combat oriented stealth and stealth vet is a support oriented stealth

[crimson pebble]

You can also build vet stealth to get a sizeable dmg boost

[idle swallow]

Weapon specialist chaxe vet with either stealth or shout to taste is one of my favorites rn that also shreds bosses pretty darn quick

[thick wolf]

that the same indignatus?

[tall torrent]

Yea, lightning reflexes + skullcrusher

U can’t stagger ragers without using special which has a kinda slow windup and can get u punished vs rager groups so it’s just better to block stun

[thick wolf]

kark, I relaly should've went with skullcrusher instead of high voltage

[tall torrent]

Shock mauls also for some reason have same cleave between sweep & overhead heavy attacks so it’s pretty much just always better to heavy atk elites

[idle pecan]

chaos spawn put me in timeout

[thick wolf]

this is my indignatus rn

[ashen hollow]

so how do i stop my gun from lowering in lod, making it hard to aim?

i know this isnt zeaslot specific but its alot more pronounced on some of the main lasguns

[last parcel]

stack damage and crit boosts

[tall torrent]

5% Crit chance perk, 5% Crit chance talent
+25% Unyielding perk
Marksman + CQKZ + FTE

I unironically think +5% crit chance is better than +25% flak for Columnus mk5

[idle pecan]

ive been using this

[tall torrent]

Change 25% maniac to 5% crit chance and use the 5% crit chance talent, it’s so much better

[coral willow]

shroudfield will always top on damage yes but infiltrate has durational damage also

most of the time not enough for BP or something you dont rely on but i find it useful nonetheless

[idle pecan]

what shouldi replacce with the crit node

[tall torrent]

Deadshot
Onslaught

[idle pecan]

onslaught is a massive dps for my columnus and deadshot gives more crit than the node

that seems counterproductive

[tall torrent]

Onslaught is never rly massive dps

It only matters for 1 enemy in the game that you’re not supposed to magdump in the first place

And deadshot Columnus is borderline insane behaviour

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/im-joining-the-circus-im-going-berzerkus-lyrics-cat-living-in-the-walls-listening-to-100gecs-doritos-and-fritos-gif-25416100

[idle pecan]

why is it insane

it lets me absolutely dog on crushers

which is all that this gun really struggles to do

[tall torrent]

What melee are u using

[idle pecan]

rashad

[tall torrent]

Why do u need ur gun to kill crushers then

[idle pecan]

it takes like 6 heavy swings to kill them

or half my mag

[tall torrent]

Yea when u put no points into melee whatsoever that’s what happens

[tall torrent]

Taking onslaught + deadshot for Columnus when u could get CQKZ + desperado + 15% elite damage

[tall torrent]

That’s a brick gg

[idle pecan]

it all i got

[tulip shoal]

anybody have some advice for playing on higher difficulty's?

[tall torrent]

I still wouldn’t recommend onslaught + deadshot

Onslaught literally only matters for 1 enemy

[last parcel]

get comfortable with melee combat and dodging on sound cues

[idle pecan]

would this be better for it

[tall torrent]

If u struggle so much with crushers take krak & make ur melee better

[somber axle]

You can use Surprise Attack as a mini-Shroudfield to achieve 1HKO on Crushers with a Knife but it's goofy

[faint beacon]

Ehhh I’d say is it really worth it on 1 crusher though?

Cause I mean like it’s dumb it can Half Health a BON with a certain set up with Shroud

[fleet thicket]

guys i be honest

playing with reduced stamina regen

was abit of struggle...

[last parcel]

i i it’s about s sending a mm message

[fleet thicket]

@tall torrent do i ahve to give up my stamina regen?

tbf the with tthat 1 build i run both chainaxe, shockmaul and rashad combat axe

[tall torrent]

it's nice but not 100% necessary

I think it's only necessary for knife lol

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-explosion-lol-cheeky-geezer-gif-26185565

[tall torrent]

if u have both stam regen delay nodes u can spam knife PA indefinitely

[somber axle]

Not really since you can wombo combo a Crusher with Vet in under 1 second

but it is still really funny that it can be done

[fleet thicket]

and deadshot?

necessary for deadshot build right?

[tall torrent]

depends?

I don't play deadshot much

it pretty much needs u to run +3 stam for it to not feel terrible and limits ur curio choices

and most weapons don't need deadshot

[thick wolf]

tried deadshot once

never again

[last parcel]

not necessary but nice to have. most of my deadshot builds regen through target down with high base stamina

[thick wolf]

as for this

my guardsman vet pretty much lives or dies through headhunter after applying it in my Ia lasgun

[idle swallow]

I like deadshot with helbores but that's about the only time I use it

And then I use a shovel with all or nothing cuz I'm a little no stamina goblin

[somber axle]

I wouldn't recommend Deadshot with the CIAG just like I wouldn't recommend Deadshot with the new Recon Mk VId. The fire rate is silly and you'll empty your stamina bar too fast. Not worth it imo. The extra crit is nice for things like Helbores, Boltgun, etc. but when you get into automatics you'll need multiple stam curios and stuff like Duck and Dive and/or Target Down to improve uptime on Deadshot

If you're very good at juggling stamina it can be fun but otherwise you're going to get a quick burst, an empty stamina bar and be vulnerable during a fight when you need to sprint, block or shove

[fleet thicket]

i see

this stamina delay though

i think i need increased speed recovery for

achlys combat axe

[faint beacon]

It’s good just gimmicky, stamina reliant that’s for sure

Obviously it’s not a “must” pick

[thick wolf]

that being said I was trying to build a mg 12 lasgun just in case I got bored with an Ia

got a bricked one despite the good stats sadly

[faint beacon]

Istg you only get bricks or god rolls with those damn things

It’s never like

Oh it’s useable

[thick wolf]

why must you hurt me hadron

infested enemies of all things

[faint beacon]

Ghost 👍

Everything else 👎

[thick wolf]

also >efficiency

[faint beacon]

It’s been ages since I used the ILGs

Should pick one up when I’m home

[thick wolf]

my Ia for good measure

honestly didn't like the IVs as much

too spammy for infanty lasgun

welp, tried to salvage it

Im still sad with this

[faint beacon]

I mean it’s there I guess lmao

[hollow warren]

has anyone even checked if the High Voltage of a shmaul works on enemies stunned by psyker smite?

[faint beacon]

Absolutely try to get a better one though for ILaG

[thick wolf]

I'll give the Mg 12 lasgun a second chance with this, I guess

[faint beacon]

MG12 is the weakest with BPs

So it might not feel as good

I know the 1A is the most comfortable and the 4 is well

The 4

[thick wolf]

yeah the 4 is

uhhhh

not good lmao

[faint beacon]

That’s the thing

[thick wolf]

too spammy with little damage

[faint beacon]

It’s not good in raw damage

But if you have a trigger finger it’s really fucking good

[thick wolf]

I even had my zealot use it and it's not exactly any better for him either

more milage with a heavy laspistol

1a is my main go-to for my guardsman guy

[cerulean linden]

why do vets players forget they have grenades in this game?

surrounded by trash melee mobs? trying to revive a downed player? Drop a nade, it's that simple, only takes two seconds

[hearty panther]

how about i drop these

[thick wolf]

Me screaming at the vet to use their krak nade

My brother in the imperium just chuck it at the fucking crusher

[faint beacon]

My brother of the throne there is 3 shredders in your pocket throw them at the horde

[crimson pebble]

My fav is watching vets throw kraks into just trash hordes

Like youve got the spirit bit misplaced tho

[cerulean linden]

playing on waves of specialist, got 5% chance to restore a nade on specialist kill perk, and no one is using their nades

[midnight totem]

NO.

Melee it

[faint beacon]

The Rashad craves crusher blood

And I’m giving it to it

[tame lodge]

Vroom vroom goes the chain

[thorn lark]

Stab Stab goes the knife

[winter grove]

I have been awolen from my slumber

To say but a one thing

You're wrong

[modest skiff]

i just started the game as a vermintide player, and i forget to use grenades because the default bind is pretty bad

[severe gale]

i swapped grenade to mouse4

mainly because of zealot throwing knife

[modest skiff]

i have dodge on mouse4, i'll have to figure out where to bind it, because g is horrendous

[last parcel]

f6

[modest skiff]

lol

[rare turret]

i bound my jump button to my mouse sniper button. you dont need to mantle over things much, so dodging with space is much more natural to me

[modest skiff]

i'm not sure how it works in darktide, but in vermintide sometimes you'd want to remain blocking enemies, while moving sideways and jumping over obstances, so splitting jump and dodge was ideal

oh you still have them split

[rare turret]

absolutely, new players always jumping backwards trying to dodge. thats gotten me killed so many times til i made the change

yeah, bound sniper button to 0, so technically im dodging with the 0 button XD

er, jumping

u get the idea, split dodge and jump and survivability goes up by ALOT

[modest skiff]

yeah absolutely, i died so many times before splitting them in vermintide

[winter grove]

PrntScrn

[sharp cloak]

You guys like my setup?

Pretty simple.

I wanted EVGA or SteelSeries to make me my own custom signature mouse and keyboard.

Yeah I own BF 2042. Its that sad to watch this.

[last parcel]

setup my nuts in your mouth lmao

[sharp cloak]

No that wasnt a "sponsorship" or whoever kept doing that. Im not part of that overrated league team. I was the one designing the tech to use.

M27 IAR isnt a coincidence.

None of those guys want to use it becaues I designed it. lol Yet they admitted to this is the best one.

Quality grade Moebian Steel.

[thorn lark]

Q. It works well with throwing knives.

[sharp cloak]

You need to play Doom Eternal with my mouse.

I dont like just scrolling through all the weapons. Taking a guess thats what most of you do?

You dont just scroll through weapons when a certain weapon is designed to kill a certain enemy.

Waiting to see if Bethesda remakes Quake story and links it to Doom Eternal.

[fleet thicket]

guys

whats the minium

resistance

on

plasma again?

thermal resistance sory

[tall torrent]

Ideally 69% or higher but damage & stopping power are more important

[midnight totem]

Nice

[rose ingot]

So I’ve got a pretty good ranged setup, but I feel like my melee is lacking. I’m just not sure what weapons to use and how to set them up best, especially for crowds at higher difficulties.

Anyone able to gimme some pointers?

[lyric dock]

You want a pretty safe melee weapon the Power swords will do decently well

Rashed is strong, but needs a lot of things to go right for it to work

Shovel MK 7 is a great multi-purpose melee that can deal with hordes and Crushers

From the top of my head

[somber axle]

Power Sword Mk VI with Power Cycler IV and Brutal Momentum

Rashad Combat Axe Mk II with Headtaker, Brutal Momentum and Unarmoured

Chainsword Mk XIIIg with Wrath + Rampage

Chainsword Mk IV with Sweeping Strikes and Rampage

Shovel Mk VII with Uncanny Strikes, Thrust and Carapace

Sapper Shovel with Uncanny Strikes and Skullcrusher or Take a Swing

Shock Maul (either variant) with Skullcrusher and Lightning Reflexes or High Voltage

Those are my picks for solid Vet melees to deal with crowds (I don't touch Power Sword much at all but it's a fav among meta melee picks)

[lyric dock]

Power sword is really solid melee option for vets

Great at mincing through hordes

and doing respectable single target damage

[austere mica]

Mostly because the mk6 can kill literally everything incredibly easily

[lyric dock]

Yeah and you don't really need to build skills into it

[austere mica]

Which is why I got one, used it a bit, and will let it rot in my inventory until the end of time

[somber axle]

Charge swipe swipe swipe on repeat

[austere mica]

Something big?

[somber axle]

Charge push attack swipe swipe

[austere mica]

Push attack light

[somber axle]

Crusher dead

[lyric dock]

It's my main go to Melee for most of my Vet sets

[austere mica]

I could let my cat play my plasma build and still top score

[somber axle]

Power Sword's only weakness is mobility. It struggles on dodge, sprint, etc. and you can kinda offset that a bit with sprint efficiency on curios and going Weapon Specialist to increase dodge distance/speed

[rose ingot]

Duly noted, thank you for all that

[somber axle]

Even if you don't go weapon specialist you'll be ok as long as you play around the lower mobility

[austere mica]

And its not that hard

Its only 4 dodges

[somber axle]

I'm addicted to knife mobility LOL

[radiant chasm]

pswords biggest weakness is poor defense and if you are a sloppy player, recharging is going to get you hit

once you get over that molehill, it's pretty easy

[lyric dock]

And if I really to dodge. I can switch to my more mobile Laspistol for dodging

[austere mica]

But you could also run Mk6 where you can block while charging

[somber axle]

I've got a really dumb set up with triple sprint efficiency on curios and another +20% sprint efficiency on my knife (I can't change it until locks are removed) so I can sprint forever

[radiant chasm]

it's the braincell check i've seen plenty of vets ingame not do that

[austere mica]

Its also needed to reset the Mk6 light combo because after the first 3 swings the next set will have a strikedown at the end

[hard cave]

everything feels so off when going from knife to anything else

it hurts

[somber axle]

it depends what I'm in the mood for

sometimes the satisfying WOMP and THUNK of the shovels is just too good to pass up

I also like turning off my brain and just going W+M1 into hordes with the Chainsword Mk XIIIg

[hard cave]

I used knife + random weapon to complete weapon assassin over a week

and it hurts using my powersword now

[somber axle]

Knife mobility is so fun

being able to maneuver so easily makes it a fantastic tool for repositioning and keeping one step ahead of a horde while kiting it down

[last parcel]

me adding knife for mobility on a mf build then only using knife during the match

[elder fiber]

if you're gonna empty the mf stonks might as well do it quickly

[last parcel]

go fast eat ass as they say

[pseudo fiber]

Can you block a crusher with lightning reflexes or do you still take damage?

And are there any weird breakpoints on the shockmauls?
Mk3 specifically I suppose because that's my fav

[lusty sapphire]

If I run mk6 then no one gets to play the game

[idle pecan]

is this cooked guys

[tall torrent]

u can block crusher sweep/punch/kick for LR stun, but not overhead

[idle pecan]

is my mg 13 cooked

[rare turret]

its ok

[tall torrent]

yea

[radiant chasm]

now now for science sake

what if you had until death and zealot, and used LR vs a crusher overhead

[severe gale]

LR

?

[tame lodge]

Lightning Reflexes

[last parcel]

little racist

[winter grove]

So true

[winter grove]

Use little racist against crushers

[tame lodge]

Little implies the existence

[last parcel]

of space marines

[winter grove]

Ratling whos racist and Big Racist is a space marine

[rose reef]

aint this a re-release soldiers?

[last parcel]

that's darktide baby

[winter grove]

Finally the cadian glazers can shut up

🙏

[radiant chasm]

you wouldn't last a day glazing cadia!

[rose reef]

^

[tame lodge]

Looks like you glazed Cadia a little

[rose reef]

tell him again

all my homies hate abbadon the despoiler

[radiant chasm]

lightning reflexes AKA entropic AKA perfect timing AKA fatshark changed it's name like 3 times

[tame lodge]

Theseus blessing

[idle pecan]

just tried the psword 6 and i want to (s)cream

[tame lodge]

Scream*

[last parcel]

very very frightening

[idle pecan]

how do you make your game look like that

[severe gale]

ohhh

yeah

[last parcel]

no f f finyesse requiyad

[last parcel]

i ran a script on the enhanced descriptions mod to fuck it up

[radiant chasm]

what in the god damn

[wicked epoch]

I keep getting teams that play too slow

Its annoying

[midnight totem]

anybody up for a game?

[severe gale]

#vox-lfg-nasa

[midnight totem]

thats for the whole server

I'm just askin' vet chat

[wicked epoch]

id be down

[midnight totem]

excellent, I'll be in strike team 5

[hard cave]

@idle pecan

[last parcel]

i'll be frank

[wicked epoch]

Lemme launch discord on my pc

[wicked epoch]

Hi frank

[last parcel]

hello numbers vet

[hard cave]

why the fuck was that ping in my message

[wicked epoch]

Hows it going frank

[last parcel]

subconcious boykisser contact

[wicked epoch]

ay ay ay

no no no

[last parcel]

i just got spit roasted in maelstrom. how is your day going

[wicked epoch]

Same just happened to me

[uncut pebble]

None of these words are in the Lex Atoma.

[wicked epoch]

Yes.

[last parcel]

yes that document prefers scissoring

[tame lodge]

Get it? Lex?
Lesbianese

[cloud otter]

generically what curios does vet want? (both main blessing and sub perks)

currently running these on my vet and not sure what I should change/optimize for.

[idle pecan]

what script lmfao

also isnt this 2/4 for perks and blessings

dont you want maniacs and flak armor

with full bore + man stopper

[radiant chasm]

i don't see the point of fullbore except vs monstros, wouldn't manstopper be better (or flechette if you are going WS?)

maniacs is good tho

[shadow dagger]

so if i wanted to run the meme weapons specialist kantrael shotgun

do i run manstopper flechette

or manstopper deathspitter

or does this thing have enough cleave already

[muted knot]

Every time you Post Something in Here i get that Feeling that you choose the brainrot

[dire oriole]

hey so by in large what do yall think is the best build for horde clearing as a veteran

[wicked epoch]

why are you like this

[last parcel]

melee focus with a well rolled rashad combat axe

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/mylittlemono-littlemono-mono-ice-cream-ice-gif-333150422425528999

[radiant chasm]

kanty unlimited cleave on special been gone for a while

[last parcel]

but if you close your eyes

[radiant chasm]

or was it that kanty cleave specials won't ignite

[wicked epoch]

is this a good roll?

[cloud otter]

not particularly on base roll you want something higher than 360 ideally

[wicked epoch]

got it as an emperors gift

[cloud otter]

i mean if you dont have a plasma it's a good starter one for sure.

[last parcel]

stopping power is the opposite of a dump stat

[wicked epoch]

Damn

[cloud otter]

as I said, it's still servicable as a plasma if you want to use one and don't have better

[last parcel]

yeah

[wicked epoch]

yeah im nust gonna try it out

[somber axle]

You want at least 34% HP or more between curios and talents
You can do this with 2 HP curios but it means you only have one curio left to make your choice of toughness or stam but it frees up more perk slots
You can also do this with 1 HP curio if you get HP perks on all three curios leaving you with two choices but means you need three perk slots set aside for HP

21% + 21%
or
21% + 15%

There are also two 5% HP talent nodes in the Vet tree you can reach easily that can help offset chip damage and keep your HP pool above 200 which is where the real HP breakpoint lies. You can take multiple poxburster pops without going down that way. If you also get at least one perk with +20% Sniper Resist you can survive multiple Sniper shots too. It's a big help for general survivability

Other fun perks you can choose based off of preference include:
Sprint Efficiency
Stamina Regeneration
Gunner Resist
Toughness
Combat Ability Regeneration
Corruption Resistance

A few bad perks to avoid are
Corruption Resistance (Grimoire)
Toughness Regeneration Speed

Corruption Resistance is much better than Corruption Resistance (Grimoire) because it affects all sources of corruption and is still very effective for countering the corruption from grims too
Toughness Regeneration Speed only affects coherency toughness regen and no other sources

1 HP, 1 Toughness, 1 Stam
1 HP, 2 Toughness
1 HP, 2 Stam
2 HP, 1 Stam
2 HP, 1 Toughness

take your pick and then make sure you hit the 34% HP and you're all set

[rose ingot]

Mfw dudes be complaining about “where vox caster” as if it wasn’t in the shop like two months ago

[somber axle]

I like going 1 HP, 1 Toughness, 1 Stam tbh. Sometimes I do 1 HP, 2 Toughness for some builds

And if I'm going Deadshot memes I go 3 Stam or 1 HP, 2 Stam

I'd recommend swapping the 2 toughness regen speed perks over to HP and then swap the stam regen to HP too to hit the HP breakpoint

you'll only be at 35% HP though so it's good to get at least one of the 5% HP talent nodes to help offset chip damage during fights

either the one 5% HP talent node under Longshot/Exhilirating Takedown in the top left side of the talent tree or the 5% HP talent node just under Krak grenade

just to give you some wiggle room on when you get a little bit of HP damage through toughness

[rigid pilot]

30% revive speed

[thorn lark]

ordo dockets!

[fleet thicket]

Hey

Guys kantrael

Shotgun right ?

I think you run deathspitter and no respite on it ?

[rigid pilot]

I run no respite manstopper on my weaponspec vet

But this build was obsoleted by DBS

[fleet thicket]

Man stopper on kantrael ?

[rigid pilot]

Pewpew

[fleet thicket]

One build

I would love to try at one point

Is flecchete scattershot

On lawbringer

[cloud otter]

Wow, thanks for the comprehensive reply. You're doing the emperor's work!

[rose ingot]

For a chainsword, what perks should I look for?

[fleet thicket]

Flak maniac

Although hmm

[somber axle]

This is all stuff Numbers Cat and his crew figured out, I'm just resharing the info LOL

[fleet thicket]

Which chainsword ?

Cuz one of them is a single target monster

[somber axle]

I used to run triple stam curios pretty regularly and swore by it but being able to tank multiple poxbursters and snipers is nice

sometimes the game just says "no fuck you" and gives you a totally silent poxburster from behind with no warning

[fleet thicket]

The only class that's gets away with not running toughness curios

[somber axle]

or a sniper has their laser dot trained on the back of your head and you have no clue until you eat it

[fleet thicket]

Is ogryn

Cuz 600 hp

I have tanked 4 poxbursters

Was above half hp still

[last parcel]

everyone can get away with it if they're silly enough

[somber axle]

I mained Recon Mk VId with Deadshot before the recent Recon buffs so triple stam curios, target down, duck and dive, etc. was how I played LOL

but yeah like if you run triple stam curios it just means you can't make nearly as many mistakes

[fleet thicket]

That's... slow playstyle for me

[last parcel]

at least 2 noobs in this server died trying to follow your footsteps

[fleet thicket]

Me I like to move alot

[somber axle]

the clown shoes are hard to fill

Mr. Craime also tried my Recon build a while ago pre-Secrets of the Machine God and told me he actively lost sanity trying to play my way LMFAO

[last parcel]

[somber axle]

the clown shoes are awkward and you'd have to be a masochist to want to wear them

it's a silly way to live

[fleet thicket]

Also guys

Man I love shotgun on weapon specialist

[somber axle]

it's surprisingly fast paced because the old playstyle heavily relied on pushing to the frontline and baiting shooters to trigger Duck and Dive to maintain stamina regen through fights to have more uptime on Deadshot. On a weapon as fast firing as a Recon Mk VId it's kinda necessary. But now it fires even faster which makes it more fun imo but also makes it less viable for Deadshot stamina juggling

sometimes I do Deadshot stamina juggling on the Recon Mk II but I don't do Recon Mk VId + Deadshot memes anymore

also triple stam curios let you do funny things

better sprinting, better blocking, more shoving, more push attacks

[fleet thicket]

Tbf i am kind of weird though so I can't talk much

[somber axle]

you can still benefit from like infinite push attacks on knife if you get both stam regen delay nodes though

[fleet thicket]

But I run deadshot with

Helbore

[somber axle]

that's a surprisingly normal thing

a single shot firing weapon that fires very slowly and benefits immensely from Deadshot crit synergy comboing with Surgical for Shock Trooper

is one of the easiest things to run Deadshot on

automatic weapons are where it gets goofy

and generally not worth running for most people

even on the Helbore Mk II with Charge Rate stat 75%+ and Weight of Fire IV it's still not weird to use Deadshot with it

and that fires relatively fast compared to the other two variants

as long as you do Focus Target + Target Down juggling stamina becomes ezpz

[fleet thicket]

Cannot wait when they add long las

Deadshot with long las

Gonna be so juicy

[somber axle]

I know some people will go Executioner's Stance to double down on sniper memes

I want to go Infiltrate + Low Profile and just sit next to the Psyker while he gets a beatdown and casually snipe elites/specials

[fleet thicket]

I personally like executioner I know people hate it but

The damage output

With helbore 3 on it is insanely high

[somber axle]

Helbore is the closest thing to a literal sniper rifle we have so far

[radiant chasm]

I mean it is

It is the classic teamfortress 1 sniper rifle

Hold to charge, release to fire

[last parcel]

ow my leg

[radiant chasm]

Tf2 had the classic added as a sidegrade as well

[fleet thicket]

It's really just a marksman rifle honestly

Like I put helbore and headhunters in the same category of guns

[somber axle]

I'd say the Headhunter Autoguns feel more like DMRs

[last parcel]

Designated Marksman Rifle

[somber axle]

yeah

[radiant chasm]

Mk7 HH was recently reworked to fit better as a dmr was it not

[thorn lark]

yes, less ammo and more bang per bullet

[faint beacon]

the HHA 7 is the DMR

[last parcel]

6th target

[faint beacon]

I'd say the 9 and 3 fit the role also

but they're more like Burst Rifles that punish you for not landing headshots

[faint beacon]

Throne's Strongest Rashad

[somber axle]

Sorry was in a roulette on FF14 LOL

but yeah I think Headhunter Autoguns resemble DMRs more, and Helbores (particularly the Helbore Mk III) resembles the 1 shot 1 kill vibe of sniper rifles better

Helbore Mk III lives on killing targets in one shot

you can even 1 shot a Crusher with it if you do a funny build

Headhunter Autoguns can kill most targets in a couple shots and if you build some funny rending you can even kill Crushers in a short burst

[drowsy leaf]

the block attack headshot kill for crushers on the power sword is fun

[lucid hinge]

Yes it's incredibly stupid

[tame lodge]

6% mewing critical hit

[last parcel]

emperor's gift

[lucid hinge]

Hmm so full of manyiacs

[thorn lark]

with a hb mk1, would you go MF or Focus?

or neither

[thorn lark]

cawapace

[rigid pilot]

MF helbore sounds like suffering

[last parcel]

i run keystoneless but focus target makes shooting flamers much easier if you take +maniac, though you already get dreg gunner with superiority complex

[thorn lark]

OK, is deadshot mandatory?

[austere prawn]

I bet I would would be 3 uncharged shots to get to 100% heat.

[faint beacon]

Anyone else having Input delay?

Noticed this my past like 2 matches

[last parcel]

no, surgical is enough

[thorn lark]

It's a feature, not a bug.

[last parcel]

+3 wounds and become a sewer slide bomber

[jovial meadow]

What recon lasgun is best?

[last parcel]

download this virus and see
#veteran-class message

[snow turret]

I just want to post my drip

[thorn lark]

None. They all have a different purpose.

[wicked epoch]

what perks

[trim hemlock]

Flak and Elite are ideal IIRC

[wicked epoch]

gotcha

[vivid silo]

Depends on your build honestly, as breakpoints are different depending on what nodes / buffs you have. But Flak is rarely a bad idea. Test whether you reach the breakpoints you want in regards to Maniacs (like Bombers, Trappers, Flamers etc).

Also, depends on what your intention is. I have a Plasma for the anti-shooter Maelstrom (Flak + Unarmored, Gloryhunter + Blaze Away), I have one for the melee-only Maelstrom (Flak + Carapace, Get's Hot + Blaze Away), I have a more general-use one (Flak + Elites, Get's Hot + Blaze Away), one for Monstreous Maelstrom (Flak + Unyielding, Blaze Away + Get's Hot) etc.

All I have to wait for is for Fatshark to make the Plasma fun to use again!

[pastel yew]

?

its like... literally the strongest weapon in the game currently

[pseudo fiber]

Fun doesn't equate to strong

The bolt pistol is incredibly fun. Is it strong? No not really

[vivid silo]

Exactly what the other guy said. As long as it's just mindless spam of uncharged shots 99% of the time with bland blessings it simply isn't entertaining for me to use

I found it more fun when you had to put some thought into how you used it.

[pastel yew]

I mean the plasma gun has always been fairly mindless no?

[pastel yew]

its reasonably strong

just requires some fucky building

[somber axle]

nah LMFAO

it used to cause HP damage through toughness on vent

and uncharged shots could cause you to explode and die at 100% heat too

if you played it mindless back then you also played it while dead

it also didn't have like

infinite cleave back then either

[odd sparrow]

yeah plasma was way harder to use and was more a side grade to bolter in terms of power

[somber axle]

Boltgun's biggest nerf was Exe Stance having the auto-reload on ability activation removed

no more double magdump

😔

[odd sparrow]

yeah i miss that, the playstyle was so fun

[somber axle]

it doesn't really need it since you can still magdump and kill a boss in a single mag

but still

[odd sparrow]

it wasnt even that good since you would spend 30% of all your ammo to do it

wish they would bring it back

[pastel yew]

no way

pinning fire was nuked into the ground

pinning fire used to be absurd

I honestly think auto reload was fine

honestly its a bit int given the ammo usage but it was cool

[pastel yew]

I dont really think thats all that complex

I mean psyker is the same

[somber axle]

pinning fire nerf hurt shredder autopistol more imo

[pastel yew]

and psyker peril management is not hard

[somber axle]

shredder autopistol is now firmly last place bottom tier on the Vet arsenal after Recons were buffed

Boltgun is still a very solid pick

the only breakpoint I can even think of Pinning Fire assisting now is like

Bulwark shield break on high collateral with Exe Stance and combat stim LMFAO

[pastel yew]

pinning fire was boss deletion

[somber axle]

you need max pinning fire stacks with all that nonsense to get a 1 shot bulwark stagger through the shield

[pastel yew]

I do agree the boltguns fine now

its just the handling is too poor

[somber axle]

it's 2 shot bulwark shield shot stagger with Exe Stance otherwise

[pastel yew]

they've balanced the damage but like... the handling is so bad to imitate it being super heavy hitting when other things just hit harder lmao

I'd honestly rather they split the boltgun into two marks or whatever..

[somber axle]

I think it's better than Plasma because Boltgun can still delete bosses in one magdump

Plasma can't

[pastel yew]

or like a braced and a marksman

[somber axle]

like you don't take Plasma vs bosses

[pastel yew]

?

I mean

I can see the logic sorta

[somber axle]

Boltgun still deletes bosses in one auto magdump

[pastel yew]

but everything deletes bosses

also you could just bring a melee weapon

kraks

[somber axle]

Plasma does not

[pastel yew]

what makes the plasma gun op is the fact it can one shot elites and specials so rapidly

[somber axle]

that's why you grab a melee weapon to go chopping at a boss instead

[pastel yew]

and then reload incredibly fast

[somber axle]

you'll spend forever shooting it down with Plasma

and Plasma also doesn't have the ammo to spend forever shooting one single target

it's fantastic at deleting elites/specials

it's good at melting Crusher faces

but it's like the Shock Maul of meta weapons

CIAG and Zarona Revolver leave it in the dust and even some mid-tier weapons do boss killing better than Plasma

[pastel yew]

I don't agree

even with weapon specialist the zarona is still not as good as the plasmagun

the plasmagun has insane ammo efficiency and up time

you can kill things as fast as you can aim really

+pen

[somber axle]

Nah Zarona is crazy with Always Prepared LMFAO

and Zarona also is still very strong at deleting bosses too

[pastel yew]

that relies on you getting into melee to reload

[somber axle]

when are you ever not in melee in an auric or maelstrom

[pastel yew]

plasmagun can partial reload like the revolver except you get 2 shots instead of one

[pastel yew]

depends on your positioning

[somber axle]

you're always within slapping distance of something when the ai director is going wild and it's doing that constantly throughout aurics/maelstroms

[midnight totem]

-rubs eyes-

[somber axle]

it's pretty trivial to slap a single poxwalker and then swap since the swap speed is fast

[midnight totem]

Its early wtf are yall doin'

[somber axle]

I just don't like Zarona or Plasma because they're boring playstyles to me. They're both strong but Zarona is like leagues ahead of Plasma tbh

[somber axle]

I am up to clown antics as always

anyway I'd love if they gave a gentle nerf tap to uncharged shot damage

just a little bit to make uncharged shot breakpoints out of the realm of how silly they are now

[pastel yew]

consider the time it takes to swap to melee, kill, swap back, readjust aim, repeat

compared to light vent once

[somber axle]

buff charged shot by reducing ammo cost and speeding up charge time slightly

[pastel yew]

and thats already two shots

[midnight totem]

Suppose its never too early to start purgin' heretics

part of a balanced breakfast

[somber axle]

consider the time it takes you to kill a boss vs a Zarona Vet killing it without needing to go melee (and a funny build can do it in 5 shots too LOL)

[pastel yew]

I dont really get how you could think its better when the only thing the zarona actually does better is killing crushers and bosses

the plasmagun is just objectively better at killing the rest of the stuff you're facing

its faster

[somber axle]

I've seen Azreal play

if you can beat him on the Scoreboard I'll tell you you're right

[pastel yew]

yeah but bosses do not matter

[somber axle]

I've seen what a good Zarona Vet does

[somber axle]

he kills everything dude

[midnight totem]

thought that was an agrippina build instead of a zarona

[somber axle]

I don't know how to explain that

LMFAO

[pastel yew]

what do you think a plasma is doing?

[somber axle]

he recorded a vid with both revolvers to show it's possible with both

[pastel yew]

aggrippina is better vs bosses but the zarona is plenty fine

[somber axle]

Zarona is just slightly slower

[midnight totem]

gotcha

[somber axle]

less than a Zarona

still doing a lot

[midnight totem]

I don't use zaronas on bosses anyway

[somber axle]

still doing less

[midnight totem]

I see a boss I'm pulling out my melee and running at it

[somber axle]

Plasma is one of the big three meta weapons for Vet

it's not weak by any means

it's just clearly outpaced by Zarona Revolver

strong but not strongest

[pastel yew]

I mean actually apply some logic to the situation

if the plasmagun is one shotting everything too

and its doing it faster

why would it be weaker?

[somber axle]

no

[pastel yew]

because it cant kill bosses as fast?

[vivid silo]

If they are both 1-shotting, then the Revolver does it faster due to no firing delay

[somber axle]

if you genuinely believe this poke Azrael, hit the scoreboard and show the class

[midnight totem]

https://tenor.com/view/charge-monty-python-holy-grail-attack-knights-gif-5136568

[somber axle]

he's the real test of Plasma vs Zarona Revolver

Mr. Craime is a really good Plasma Vet and can keep up

he doesn't like

[pastel yew]

the firing delay on the plasma is literally the time it takes to move from one head to another

[somber axle]

surpass Azrael afaik

[vivid silo]

Also, Revolver has faster swap/draw speed

[somber axle]

they're roughly on level ground

[somber axle]

there's a noticeable firing delay on Plasma vs Revolver

it's very short but still worth noting

[vivid silo]

I don't agree, at least not in all situations. Besides, reaction time matters

[somber axle]

Revolver TTK is just faster on multi-target and it also sports the cleave to cut down rows of gunners/shotgunners lined up

[vivid silo]

And the Revolver trumps the plasma in that regard

[pastel yew]

with everything factored in ? melee, swap time, total reload

its not even remotely close

[somber axle]

yeah

[pastel yew]

idk man I've ran revolver vet and I do well

[somber axle]

and you're right that it's not close but just wrong in the direction

[pastel yew]

and I've ran plasmagun vet

and I do even better

[vivid silo]

Might just be more fitting to your playstyle. The Plasma (in its current state) is much easier to pickup and use

[pastel yew]

its like a fraction of a second

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver is just wild in a good Weapon Specialist Vet hands because Always Prepared exists to remove the single downside Revolver has

[pastel yew]

this is a silly statement

the zarona has ads

and makes enemy heads bigger

neither weapon has a high skill requirement but like

[somber axle]

it's also accurate though

[pastel yew]

at least one requires you to actually aim

[pastel yew]

how is it accurate?

[midnight totem]

zarona requires basic fps skills

[vivid silo]

Plasma is pretty easy to aim, and doesn't limit your FoV

[somber axle]

Plasma is low risk high reward and braindead to use in its current state for the average Vet

it's also objectively worse on mobility

[vivid silo]

Fractions of a second, + firing delay (even more fractions of a second) all added together makes it more likely to survive that surprise Trapper or whatever

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver lets you move faster, dodge better,etc.

[midnight totem]

anybody wanna play though?

[pastel yew]

why would its worse mobility... make it.. easier to use??

[pastel yew]

no just click as you're flicking ?

if you track to a target

then click

you're wasting so much time

[somber axle]

both have instant swap speed but Plasma has firing delay and Zarona can fire faster, Zarona ignores its entire weakness of reload speed being bad because Always Prepared exists, you can't really fix Plasma's bad mobility and inability to harm bosses

[pastel yew]

I mean again

[somber axle]

read the sentence above it LMFAO

[pastel yew]

I think you need to read what was said

[pastel yew]

this

[somber axle]

ok because the mobility wasn't the response to your question of accuracy LOL

it was another point as to why Zarona Revolver > Plasma

[pastel yew]

I mean the zarona is just easier

again

you can ads

again

it makes head hit boxes bigger

its impossible to miss

[vivid silo]

Personally I find not having to ADS means it's easier to use shrugs

[pastel yew]

also yeah like you said, far better mobility

[vivid silo]

But I realize I'm weird

[somber axle]

they're both pretty easy weapons given their immense strength in the meta currently

[pastel yew]

you played a lot of cs?

[vivid silo]

Too many Plasma fumes huffed back in the day

[pastel yew]

for sure but like

the zarona requires absolutely no skill to use

the plasmagun will require you to actually aim bare minimum

[rigid pilot]

Huh

[somber axle]

idk why you assume Zarona Revolver is somehow less skill than Plasma and also attribute it to being weaker

[rigid pilot]

I would say the opposite

[lyric dock]

Zarona needs a good bit more skill to use

[pastel yew]

how

[rigid pilot]

You actually need to reload zarona and you need crits

[pastel yew]

its like

[lyric dock]

Plasma you aim at the general direction of the enemy

[pastel yew]

impossible to miss

[somber axle]

it's a confusing take and not one I've ever seen from someone like ever

are you from Reddit

[pastel yew]

weapon specialist doesnt need either of those

also you need to vent the plasmagun

they effectively have the same reload

just the plasma has worse mobility

[rigid pilot]

Nah this take crazy

[lyric dock]

The revolver you have to aim for the weak spot and quickly fire

[pastel yew]

are you.. not doing that with the plasmagun?

[vivid silo]

Anyways, I wasn't really going to discuss which is strongest, just that I find the current iteration of the Plasma to be mindnumbingly boring comparing to what it used to be. They might as well remove the charge mechanic alltogether as I only use it 1-5 times per mission (and that's likely much more than the average user).

[final locust]

Servers down right now or something? Wont let me log in, just says "backend error"

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean I agree, I don't use it anymore either

[somber axle]

I agree tbh

[pastel yew]

I still think strength wise it is better

[somber axle]

no risk high reward gameplay

[pastel yew]

its just a numbers game

[midnight totem]

what are you people even disagreeing about?

[lyric dock]

THe usual Plasma v Revolver BS

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver vs Plasma

[vivid silo]

I take the Agrip shotgun for the discount-Plasma effect of being able to fire a single strong shot from the hip while we wait

[pastel yew]

I'm saying the plasma gun is stronger than the zarona, and that it has a higher skill requirement. they're saying the opposite

[pastel yew]

the vraks 7 also has pinpoint hipfire accuracy on the first shot, if thats you're kinda thing

[midnight totem]

plasma gun does not have a higher skill requirement then the zarona

I'd say they're both about the same

[lyric dock]

Hell the Plasma gun ignores the concept of cover. Special hiding behind a wall. Wall bang with the Plasma

[pastel yew]

I mean again, plasma gun has worse mobility, plasmagun has slower swap speed, plasmagun does not make head hitboxes larger

zarona can ads

[lyric dock]

Gunners in cover. Wall bang with Plasma

[vivid silo]

Aye but I feel I want a bit more punch from that first shot, which the shotgun provides.

[pastel yew]

yup

[midnight totem]

plasma gun is plasma

[lyric dock]

Clown car specials behind a spawn door

[vivid silo]

Plasma + Executioners Stance is a sight to behold

[lyric dock]

Wall. Fucking. bang

[somber axle]

wouldn't plasma ignoring cover be a point in like plasma being easier to use

[lyric dock]

Revolver can't do that shit

[somber axle]

shoot through wall

[pastel yew]

thats valid, there is a blessing for them that makes your first shot do like +20% which lets you hit a lot more break points

[somber axle]

shoot through door

[midnight totem]

revolvers go through doors

[somber axle]

don't think because cover doesn't matter

[pastel yew]

I mean yesnt

its a point that the plasma is stronger

you still have to line up their head ig

[vivid silo]

Aye I really should get around to testing that again, constantly reloading a slug gets a bit tedious. Cheers for reminding me!

[pastel yew]

also the wall pen is not coming up super often as heads are practically always visible

[pastel yew]

npnp, I do wish we got a shotgun that only fired slugs ;-; it'd be so dope

until then though yeah gotta constantly reload

[vivid silo]

Indeed!

[somber axle]

I wouldn't really say that makes it stronger tbh because it has weaknesses that ignoring cover do not erase

it's pitiful boss damage, bad on ammo economy after Surv Aura nerfs, low mobility

[pastel yew]

again boss damage

[somber axle]

nothing really erases any of those negatives

[pastel yew]

does not matter

kraks

ping

loads of melee options

[somber axle]

if you have to say take another thing to compete with Zarona you're not competing

[pastel yew]

BAD ON AMMO ECON

[somber axle]

you're using something else

[pastel yew]

hol

up

theres no way you think that is true

[somber axle]

yeah

LOL

[pastel yew]

if you're hitting your shots, you will not run out of ammo

theres always an ammo box on the map somewhere for a full reload

like

ammo is way too generous

I'd maybe agree in no ammo pickup maelstrom but nah

in normal play thats cap

[somber axle]

yeah ok I beat a Plasma Vet and a CIAG Vet on ammo economy with a Recon pre-Secrets of the Machine God

[pastel yew]

have you seen the state of the average auric player?

every plasma vet I've seen recently is trash

[somber axle]

yeah most of them run plasma

[pastel yew]

I think most people with skill have long since abandoned the weapon for more interesting pastures

not everyone of course

you still see the occasional cracked vet

but I will say in my entire time playing plasma gun vet

the only people that could compete with me were other plasmagun vets

and one psyker

with the voidstrike

who was insane, he made me look trash

[lyric dock]

Until you get a Storm trooper that vacuums up all the ammo in the map

And get you the unofficial modifier of no ammo pick up

[somber axle]

I think Plasma suffered more than most guns from the Surv Aura nerf tbh

[midnight totem]

-cough- bolter

[pastel yew]

true I've seen loads of people running recons without storm trooper which is confusing

[pastel yew]

I mean it needed it

[somber axle]

Plasma Vets post Surv Aura nerf eating 11 ammo tins and 5 ammo packs to kill less than others in the squad

[pastel yew]

without it you could literally play the whole game

[lyric dock]

Oh big time. That cool down is pretty brutal for it since it only gets 1-2 ammo per surv aura proc

[pastel yew]

without picking up ammo

[somber axle]

maybe but then idk no one really mains Boltgun and when I use it, it doesn't really feel like it struggles on ammo

[pastel yew]

from an auric damnation game pre survivalist nerf

[lyric dock]

Oh no no no. Not that kind of stormtrooper I'm talking about those that can't aim for shit and burn all their ammo within 20 seconds

[somber axle]

unless I just decide to no thoughts head empty hip fire magdump into crowds of maulers repeatedly LOL

[pastel yew]

oh I knew that

was just testing you

after the survivalist nerf you do still need to pick up ammo now

but like

the full ammo reset box and maybe a medium bag

and you're set comfortably

[lyric dock]

Hellbore 2 is still "What is ammo pick up"

[somber axle]

yeah Surv Aura isn't even refunding it for a single special/elite kill anymore and it's always a net negative on kills

not even going ammo neutral

[pastel yew]

no weapon SHOULD go ammo neutral like

thats crazy

[somber axle]

Helbores all go ammo positive LMFAO

[pastel yew]

yeah but I'll let them off because they're cool

either way it doesnt matter if your gun is burning through ammo or not using it

as the ammo boxes on map are way way way too generous currently

I do think the survivalist nerf is overstated though

I think its balanced now

its just in a bad place because of its positioning on the skill tree

[lyric dock]

9/10 times. I'll still take it over the other aura options

[pastel yew]

I mean the other two options are worthless

you're effectively selling your aura for perk points

so you can get the other stuff you want

since pathing through survivalist leads to worm builds

[wraith flare]

Its still the best one and that nerf fucked alot of already weaker guns

[somber axle]

I think when looking at a nerf you have to take it in the perspective of not just how it affects you, but how it affects others too

[wraith flare]

it was big dumb smelly nerf

[somber axle]

and Plasma Vets were one of the worst hit by Surv Aura being nerfed

[pastel yew]

yeah but its balanced compared to the rest of the auras in the game, the other two vet auras could read "does nothing" and practically nothing would change

[somber axle]

the game balance isn't made around one individual person

but the overall game and community

[lyric dock]

Gunlugger Ogryns quietly crying in a corner

[somber axle]

and for overall plasma vets they took a noticeable hit and began eating much more ammo to compensate

[somber axle]

they were also hurt too LOL

but the bright side

they've broken their dependency cold turkey

they don't need us

[pastel yew]

I don't really agree though, like the plasma gun still requires next to no ammo

3 ammo to kill 1+ things

full reload box on the map

[wraith flare]

even after the nerf plasma is still strong, revolver is still strong, ogryns got fucked, bolter got fucked

[pastel yew]

you're chilling

bolter is fine

[somber axle]

it's one of those things that means for a good Vet you're still taking extra tins and packs to compensate

[pastel yew]

its just not a spray weapon

which is a shame

braced bolter when

[somber axle]

and for a bad Vet you're taking a LOT of extra tins and packs to compensate

[wraith flare]

bolter was already mid tier, the nerf pushed it even lower

[pastel yew]

I guess

I just assume everyone on my team is gonna use 4000 ammo boxes

so I try to make all of my builds ammo neutral

[somber axle]

it is not possible to make any Plasma build ammo neutral now

[pastel yew]

not relying on map drops as much as possible is nice because if you do they're going to get hoovered up

[somber axle]

it will always be a net negative through engagements and require ammo

[pastel yew]

with the full reload box

[somber axle]

you have to rely more on melee to compensate otherwise

[pastel yew]

you're chilling

I think a lot of people are really shakey

[lyric dock]

I run either the las pistol or Helbore as main weapon of choice as Vet. Both being ammo neutral or positive for most of the game

[pastel yew]

about seeing their ammo count <50%

[somber axle]

Tbh nothing really beats Helbores on ammo economy

you can literally run them in no ammo Mael and use them with more uptime than any other ranged weapon the Vet has

[pastel yew]

uhhhh I mean it depends

if you were shooting forever I'd agree

[somber axle]

they go ammo positive to ammo neutral in almost all engagements

[pastel yew]

but the recon lasguns are incredibly ammo efficient now

and put in mad amounts of work

[somber axle]

Surgical + Deadshot just make them insane LOL

[pastel yew]

you're gonna be outta the game before you're really running low

[lyric dock]

Only time I burn through a shit ton of ammo is if I'm going hard into of them because there's a shit ton elites And I'm the poor SOB tasked with dealing with them all because I have 3 potatos that can't hit the broadside of the barn

[somber axle]

The guns are killing things in 1-2 shots and shooting for free, and refunding ammo through Surv Aura like

you can't beat that

[pastel yew]

theres a point where more ammo efficient sorta becomes pointless

[somber axle]

that's a level of ammo efficiency that makes them the clear winner as a top tier pick for ammo economy

and puts them above any other weapon in the game for no ammo modifier

they can also fire at like any target

elites, specials, Crushers, bosses, etc.

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean the only thing recons really struggle with are crushers

I know a lot of people run the armor pen skills but

[somber axle]

Helbores are just so so good but people are turned off by the slow swap speed, charge time, and awkward sights

[pastel yew]

I think they're too expensive for the one enemy type they help against

when you could just press q

their slow swap speed and charge time does make them fall behind though compared to just, q > left mouse button

they're great when they're out but they're not very fluid

[lyric dock]

That's true, but once you get used to them.

[pastel yew]

I do wish you could hold your shot though with the hellbore

rather than it going off

[lyric dock]

And remember to learn the Helbore 1 and 2 has the stab which keeps small packs of melee fodder from bothering you

[pastel yew]

if it hasnt been nerfed yet it deletes almost everything

[lyric dock]

The only time you swap off the helbore is because a horde spawn behind you

[pastel yew]

watched someone solo a spawn with it.. insane damage

for a weapon special attack

[rigid pilot]

It was bugged

[pastel yew]

whats the story there?

[rigid pilot]

Fixed now though

[somber axle]

They're all just things you can practice and adjust to. The only thing that can hurt you in Aurics/Maelstroms is the slow swap speed imo

[rigid pilot]

Might be limbsplitter interaction

[lyric dock]

Aurics I generally use the Laspistol. That slow swap speed got me into trouble a few times with the Helbore

As much as I love my Helbore 2

I rarely bring her into Aurics unless I'm playing with my pals

[pastel yew]

the initial charge speed compounds the issue too

though I was mostly using the mk3

given the slow swap, then the slow charge

[lyric dock]

I use the Helbore 2

[pastel yew]

compared the the bolt pistol... my beloved

that thing does not get enough credit

I hated it on release but I've warmed up to it a lot

[somber axle]

I only ever use the Helbore Mk II because I have a favourite build with it to hit the 1HKO breakpoints on Dreg Gunners and both Flamers without Unarmoured or Maniac perks and with my talent tree + a Helbore Mk II with 80% Damage, 80% Stopping Power, 80% Charge Rate, +25% Carapace, Surgical IV and Weight of Fire IV I can kill Crushers in 2 shots for free with Shock Trooper during Exe Stance while firing as fast or faster than a Kantrael Mg1a

plus the bayonet stab is so fun

sometimes it feels like you can just shoot forever without reloading

and ammo isn't a concern

all three other people on the squad can be ammo goblins and you can play the match as if it is a no ammo modifier and still be fine shooting

[pastel yew]

I think I was getting effectively twice as many shots

per ammo used

[somber axle]

also yeah I feel that LMFAO

[pastel yew]

with the mk3

its silly

fun though

[somber axle]

the swap speed is the thing that will kill a Vet

[lyric dock]

Indeed

Helbore is if you're caught with your pants down....

Have fun

[somber axle]

I have a funny Helbore Mk II talent tree alternative I run with Agile Engagement, Infiltrate and Low Profile to be sneaky and keep up the volleys

also a good get out of jail free card for when you feel your slow swap speed is going to get you killed

[coarse wolf]

speaking of, i need to get a vet build that doesn't suck complete ass. managed to get to level 30 at the cost of my sanity

[somber axle]

so just like be a coward instead

[lyric dock]

I may need to try Infiltrate with my Hellbore 2 build

Thanks for the idea

[somber axle]

it's very fun for bayonet charge memes

and also lets you fall back into a comfortable support shooter role ezpz

[lyric dock]

Will have to give it a try

[pastel yew]

what weapons or abilities do you enjoy?

[coarse wolf]

not played vet enough. just from other classes the heavy las pistol was fun, so was the columnus mk5

knife is neat but im most likely going shovel knight maxxing

[lyric dock]

Heavy Laspistol is great

[coarse wolf]

already have ghost that i can just give it when i get a decent roll

[pastel yew]

these are the like

[coarse wolf]

the fucking arrows

[pastel yew]

effective tax points

the arrows are for the ones that are strongest

everything beside those is like

sorta fluid

you're not always gonna have the points to reach down to ogryn and monstrosity damage

[coarse wolf]

thoughts?

be brutally honest if it sucks

[pastel yew]

yeah thats fine

[coarse wolf]

i know NOTHING about vet

[pastel yew]

I like that you take field improvisation

its not great but its nice to have on the team

if you're going laspistol though you could probably swap off of survivalist

if you just path straight down you'd save 2 points to put elsewhere

this node is only going to get use depending on how often you use ping

if you're using it frequently then you're not gonna get a great deal out of it

since each stack I think is 2 seconds extra waiting

[coarse wolf]

i really only use it for crushers, bosses and everything else that i look and go "fuck that"

[pastel yew]

thats fair

you can also use it to get toughness back though which is nice in a panic

or if someone else is low

[coarse wolf]

extra 2 points makes weapon specialist accessible...hmmmm

focus just seems useless to me

nah nevermind 7 is not enough for specialist

[pastel yew]

uhhhh I mean it depends

its okay with the laspistol actually

because finesse is weakspot damage and crit damage

laspistol crits naturally more often

though I'd probably look more in that direction with the mk10? laspistol and not the mk2

[pastel yew]

if you want weapon specialist you could drop shout and take infiltrate instead

its just as durable as shout vet just.. doesn't boost team defence

[coarse wolf]

aight i messed with it a bit

[pastel yew]

but it does make it so you can get objectives for free which I'd argue is also very strong with a bad team

[coarse wolf]

considering the teams i get

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean

about par for the course

should always make a build assuming everyone on your team will do nothing because

when that game comes you'll be prepared

[coarse wolf]

more or less where im at with my zealot

[pastel yew]

this node is like

also very good

I missed it on my lil circle chart but it will depend on the weapon you're using but usually its going to be getting good mileage

zealot is great for the hyper carry

[coarse wolf]

superiority over shock i assume?

[pastel yew]

I'd say yes given the laspistol is already super ammo efficient

but it wouldnt hurt

if you've got the extra points

[coarse wolf]

fury + momentum + axe = free

[lyric dock]

My laspistol build I use

[pastel yew]

just remember to hit headshots as much as you can, even more than usual

deadshot + shock trooper is great for ammo efficiency

I do wonder how good marksmans focus would be using that and the mk10

for big single shot crit damage

can never go wrong with focus target though, just good in every situation

[lyric dock]

Focus is my go to keystone

Extra damage and the benefit of free toughness regen on mark target kill

And Stamina to keep dead shot up for longer

[coarse wolf]

wait which las pistol is better?

[lyric dock]

Both are solid

[pastel yew]

I think... this is what I was running when I was using laspistol powersword

[lyric dock]

Pick which ever you feel better

[pastel yew]

mk2 is better imo

like a fair bit better

but its not like the other is bad

its slower firing and harder hitting

but they're both super accurate and well rounded

[lyric dock]

I use the MK 10 as my main laspistol

[coarse wolf]

FUCK

[lyric dock]

That's good to be honest

[dire olive]

I feel like with dum dum being "the" damage blessing the spammy one is just gonna be better

[coarse wolf]

ammo tho :(

[umbral garnet]

That's perfect, what's the matter?

[pastel yew]

now we pray to the omnissiah that hadron doesnt brick it

no ammo aint so bad

[umbral garnet]

Ammo on the Laspistol is already not really something to worry about.

[lyric dock]

You're a vet. Ammo is that much of a concern

[pastel yew]

they're silly ammo efficient anyway

[somber axle]

Get Back in the Fight isn't very good and generally Catch a Breath is more valuable. 8 stack Focus Target and Redirect Fire are both probably unnecessary. Focus Target works by letting you get to 2 stacks immediately if you ping a target and kill it within roughly a second after pinging it so the general best use for Focus Target is ping target, kill, ping next target, kill, etc. to maintain the cycle of at least 2 stacks on each pinged target. Redirect Fire is what would benefit most from 8 stack but the increase is minimal and unnecessary unless you're RIGHT on the edge of an important breakpoint and need to juggle 8 stack Redirect Fire with Focus Target to maintain that breakpoint. Redirect Fire applies max benefit for number of stacks and maintains that max benefit when refreshed even by a lower stack Focus Target Kill. If you kill a pinged target with 8 stacks you get 8 stack Focus Target, then 8 stack Redirect Fire after it dies. For the next target right after you get 2 stack Focus Target with the buff of 8 stack Redirect Fire. After killing the 2 stack it doesn't replace the 8 stack Redirect Fire buff with the weaker 2 stack, it just refreshes duration and keeps the 8 stack Redirect Fire buff going.

Oh also Competitive Urge isn't a good talent to use for breakpoints and I'd recommend against that

You also can skip Determined

[lyric dock]

Laspistol has inherit suppression resistance iirc

[somber axle]

Laspistols have such high suppression immunity built in that they are borderline suppression immune

[pastel yew]

hipfire is accurate

and suppression doesnt affect hipfire

so any weapon with reliable hipfire at range doesnt need it

[umbral garnet]

That itemisation rework cannot come any sooner.

[pastel yew]

its not gonna do a great deal for me as

my standards for what makes a weapon good are a lot lower than most I think

plus I already have a lot of weapons

but its good for newer players

[coarse wolf]

just gives me 4 extra points. no fucking idea where to toss em

[lyric dock]

Also for Curios for Vet. You want to run 2 +toughness and Stamina or 3 +Toughness

[umbral garnet]

Same here, I already have fantastic weapons.

[coarse wolf]

that was already the plan tbh

[pastel yew]

extra krak grenade

my beloved

[coarse wolf]

just need the game to DROP CURIOS

[lyric dock]

Keep checking the shop

[pastel yew]

the 10% damage node at the top

is also strong

melee damage *

depends on your weapon

[umbral garnet]

POWER SWORD

[coarse wolf]

probably grab agile

[pastel yew]

agile is good

[umbral garnet]

SWING SWING SWING, GOODBYE HORDE!

[dire olive]

If you're really desperate Sire Milk sells them

[pastel yew]

power sword mk 6 is my addiction right now

that thing is so fun

[umbral garnet]

Crusher two-taps are incredible.

[pastel yew]

yeeeeeee they're so dope

[umbral garnet]

Poke and excecute.

[coarse wolf]

im running 3 +20% curio drop chance and i have gotten ONE curio drop in 2 weeks

[pastel yew]

the boss damage on the push attack is silly

[pastel yew]

oof

honestly I'd just check melk

he's where I get all my curios

are you a pc player?

[coarse wolf]

ye

[lyric dock]

Check Melk and Brunt for Curios

[somber axle]

Could go into right side tree for Close Quarters Kill Zone, Desperado then use the last point on Superiority Complex

extra krak is also a solid option though

Grenadier is a fav pick of mine for running Kraks

[coarse wolf]

replace raking fire and one of the perks, i think im set

[pastel yew]

desperado is especially good with the knife

[coarse wolf]

literally

[pastel yew]

damn

not bad at all