veteran-class

[rigid pilot]

Drop it and run away then

Like a hot potato

[somber axle]

what if you turn yourself into a poxburster and run into the enemy instead?

you can do this and it does hurt enemies LOL

[gilded rock]

Tbf we literally Big Shoe Lmao entire hordes of people onto their backs with VoC and carry plus throw huge ass vacuum capsules, I think we got enough strength to heave ho it

Throw it at the smyker

[somber axle]

this rock isn't a friendly one

[rigid pilot]

Imagine they gave potw and plasma explosion a barrel push effect

They'll be the best griefing tools

[coral willow]

tech priests would be hoes mad

that you just dropped the omnisiah's creation and ran away from it

:/

[rigid pilot]

Tech priests would be hoes

[placid portal]

Average Techpriest:

https://tenor.com/view/cat-throwing-brick-brick-cat-gif-9142560192559212520

Hadron: lvl2 strapped down, killing frenzy, +1 stamina, +10% stam efficiency

[rigid pilot]

Hadron level 2 stripped down

[frank ether]

psyker needs the vent corruption back

instead of the peril edging

[rigid pilot]

Probably

Venting is too free

But corruption is scary

And they need to make staves better to compensate

Imagine using surge staff if venting costed corruption sheesh

[frank ether]

staffs are already insanely good

maybe peril cap could be played around with

[winter dock]

Wanting to ask here, how do y'all deal with the Bolter's absolutely ridiculous reload? I'm constantly ending up in a death spiral because there's more than 15 specials/disablers/elites to deal with and too many small fry to afford spending a fullass 4 and a half secondsish reloading

[frank ether]

build reload speed, use melee

[rigid pilot]

It'll be a vastly different game, if they just drop venting corruption right now I'm gonna riot

[coral willow]

they are good cause they can be spammed :/

except surge

[somber axle]

You can sprint to speed up the reload without needing reload talents

[coral willow]

surge is wierd

[somber axle]

There's some funny sprint tech to cut the reload time down immensely

[coral willow]

they should just

[somber axle]

As soon as you see the number change you can sprint and it stops the reload and allows you to fire

[white minnow]

i'd at least make psykers have to quell peril if they go over 100% to prevent edging

[somber axle]

Even just 0.1 sec sprint will stop the reload animation

[white minnow]

e.g., if I do a trauma cast at 99% peril, i'd get put at ~120% peril and have to quell that 20%

[winter dock]

Icic, didn't know you could animation cancel the reload

[thorn lark]

Thin the elite spawn from afar, reload, shoot again or if they're too close just go melee

[frank ether]

peril just need a complete rework

[rigid pilot]

New psyker keystone: martyrdom but scales with corruption damage

[frank ether]

function a bit more like how it does in vermintide

[thorn lark]

You don't live the bolter life until you learn how to reload dodge

[coral willow]

honestly would be unchained mk2 and im in for it

cuase i have rashad :3

[frank ether]

If you spammed too much you should be forced to wait a bit

[winter dock]

The main issue isn't elites, its smal lstuff. If I stop to melee a poxwalkers or a dreg every 3 seconds cuz they constantly stream in one or two at a time I never have time to actually reload and shoot elites xd

[rigid pilot]

Unchained in darktide NOW

[somber axle]

I like running Boltgun without reload talents but you either need reload talents or you gotta learn to animation cancel to speed up reloads

[rigid pilot]

I want to spam lmb

[coral willow]

even in vt2 it could be spammed easily as long as you had THP

[thorn lark]

You need to do tactical reloading

[rigid pilot]

THP is literally free on BW and unchained lol

[coral willow]

and noe like getting THP was hard

oooh firesword

pew pew

health back to full

[rigid pilot]

Swiper no swiping

Wow full HP

[thorn lark]

You don't shoot all of your ammo and you reload whenever there's a calm period or the aggro is not on you

[frank ether]

I don't remember unchained players shitting out projectiles on my face for 30 minutes non stop

[coral willow]

i think the main reason why heat/peril doesnt work well in DT is that

[frank ether]

well when you do that there is team damage in vt2 at least

so you can't

[coral willow]

health is a finite resource

[frank ether]

unless you want the kruber to turn back and shoot you

[rigid pilot]

There's no void staff in vt2 lol

Imagine

Dumpster the entire game

[coral willow]

and toughness can be earned through just standing still

[coral willow]

fireball doesnt have enough damage and bolt doesnt have enough aoe :3

[thorn lark]

Iirc cancelling animation reloading doesn't reduce it by more than 1s...

[coral willow]

i assure you i have played and met with corus spamming unchaineds

before the nerfs obv but yknow

[white minnow]

at least in this game, purg and trauma have a stupid amount of AoE, void is void, and i've never used surge so i can't comment on it

[coral willow]

spams corus, intentionally explode and then use their ult, fire sword a bunch again and then corus again

surge is probably the most balanced

by which i mean it feels terrible

[frank ether]

Almost everrything psyker does is free screen deletion

[white minnow]

besides tuning peril, there's certainly some balancing to be done with the staffs

[frank ether]

but sure lets cry a few more rivers about survivalist

[rigid pilot]

I just want

Fireball staff in DT

[frank ether]

because they're totally not the same thing

[rigid pilot]

Now

[white minnow]

i complained about both survivalist and psyker

[coral willow]

surge could lean into more of that single target DPS

[white minnow]

and i arguably shit on psyker's stuff more cuz i hang out in that chat more

[coral willow]

currently its just a wierd mix of CC and DPS that is also beaten out by other staffs kek

idk how to nerf void without nuking its identity

[white minnow]

i'd just nerf its single-target

[frank ether]

peril is the big elephant in the room

[white minnow]

it'd still be a weapon with no cleave damage falloff unless they touch upon that

[frank ether]

staff balance is wack but without adressing peril its dancing around the real problem

[coral willow]

fire staff by nature is jus tstrong on hordes

trauma is

uh

something.

[white minnow]

you can always just tweak the numbers big by making staffs use significantly more peril or make quelling slow again

i can think of ways to keep the same peril system but to just tweak some numbers

[frank ether]

I can also think of ways to keep survivalist healthy

[white minnow]

and/or nerf the staffs

[frank ether]

but nobody wants to hear that tbh

I think just fundementally free ranged juice is always going to be despised upon with tide gamers

[rigid pilot]

Surge will be total ass if they change quell speed

[white minnow]

free is fine if it wasn't teamwide and with no ICD

[short vapor]

Each staff is a different type of screen-wipe but they all just instantly explode you when used

[white minnow]

like, the problems with survivalist have been well said and talked about in particular

[coral willow]

really wish our peril guage was doubled, and then venting didnt immediately started kicking down and instead scales exponentially as long as you hold down the vent
after like 140% you take tick damage to your toughness constantly and scales up to 200% which you blow up

[white minnow]

and often, discussions about a better survivalist like just annihilating it as an aura and making ammo refund a personal for vet has usually popped up

[coral willow]

problem is

[white minnow]

mental illness, and go to sleep

[frank ether]

yes please where do I throw money

[coral willow]

just nuking vent means that its gonna make scriar gaze quite mishandled

[short vapor]

Arco it's 12 I don't need to sleep rn

[frank ether]

I have like, 0.20 cents and a bottle of half consumed choccy milk to my name

you can have it

[white minnow]

you need to sleep now, permanently

[short vapor]

With all the threats against my wellbeing I think I'll have to take you up on that offer.

[frank ether]

isnt scrier for gunpsyker

It can always be designed around that

[rigid pilot]

I hate gunpsyker

I want meleeker

[coral willow]

what im saying is that normal psyker is on the spectrum opposite side of gaze and trying to get both to a balanced state seems quite hard to achieve without nuking another

[frank ether]

does scrier not work with melee?

If anything it feels like the better executioner

[coral willow]

it does but it does not provide any attack speed buffs

[rigid pilot]

Yes but no attack speed = boring

[frank ether]

I can agree with that

no attack speed boring

[coral willow]

not like exec gets attack speed tho

:3

[frank ether]

exec gets fuck all

you get baby mode

shoot your iLas

and make a soypog post on reddit

[rigid pilot]

Exec gets yellow

[frank ether]

piss filter

[white minnow]

and other QoL benefits

[rigid pilot]

More pee aesthetics for vet

[coral willow]

yeah but psyker gets blue

[white minnow]

the only real downside of exec's that i care about is just dropping on swap

[frank ether]

there are a few builds where I'd like to use exec but it kinda doesn't work like I want it to work

I want to throw it in builds where it just serves as a weapon swap and a short time buff to combine with WS or Focus mark

Its not as spammable as fotf nor does it actually work with WS

[coral willow]

i wish exec could either spec in into auto-reload but no renewal

or renewal but no reload

[white minnow]

that's a pretty interesting split choice

i like it

[frank ether]

It should have been like fotf but for ranged

[coral willow]

brings back the old exec but you have to chose long cooldown with the chance of megaburst, or continuous barrage to pepper every enemy

[rigid pilot]

Just copy gunlugger skill and throw it on vet

[coral willow]

gunlugger copied vet's skill before the patch wasnt it?

he learned from boss

[rigid pilot]

But it's better

[placid portal]

agripinaa Revolvo my beloved

[winter dock]

is there anyone here that is a Shotgun guru and can throw me some solid builds for each of the three shotguns (or 1 that's good for all of 'em) as well as tips/tricks for running the shotguns in general? I'm returning from a fairly long hiatus (after they introduced the second new map but before secrets of the machine god)

my memory of shotguns is them sucking ass

[rigid pilot]

Agripinna shotty pewpew good

[mellow adder]

What perks are best for the Zaronna Revolver?

[rigid pilot]

Perks with surgical handcannon can be anything you want

You don't need flak, maniac mainly helps with mutant

[frank ether]

my latest obsession has been deleting dhosts with it

It would be perfect if it had a smaller cone and dropped the bullet magnetism but we can't have perfection 😔

[last parcel]

elite for dreg gunner and crusher crits

[placid portal]

Can't yee haww without it

[hidden torrent]

Fake

Everyone knows you just made that up

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cowboy-black-slap-muscle-man-fall-gif-16591809

[hidden torrent]

Zarona envy

[pastel yew]

lucky guy

agri revolver is so unreasonably fun

I do wish it was just the tiniest bit more accurate on the alt fire though

first shot okay ish at mid range but the follow up shots are rough

[rigid pilot]

It's much better if crouched and not moving but

[hollow warren]

how do I fix this?

[tame lodge]

[pastel yew]

what.. on eart

can you send a screen cap of your weapon customization page

for that weapon

[hollow warren]

hold on, restarted the game and now it takes forever to load into the Mourningstar

I've noticed that the reflex sights on my Accantran get all fucked up like this after I try equipping a revolver with a reflex sight

I can add it to the revolver on the weapon's customization, but when I equip it, there's no reflex and no muzzle

yeah, restarting the game didn't help...

[pastel yew]

odd

[idle pecan]

Add big scope to revolver

Trust

Beeg scope

[pastel yew]

would if the modded scopes even worked

they're always misaligned for me

[idle pecan]

They do tho

Like, really well

[pastel yew]

the crosshair is always off for me on any of the custom magnification scopes

[idle pecan]

I haven't had any issues with em tbh

[pastel yew]

its normally below the centre of my screen for whatever reason

[idle pecan]

Do you have a goofy ahh sized monitor?

[marsh condor]

Potential melee weapon

[idle pecan]

like an ultra wide?

[pastel yew]

maybe

I have a 2k monitor

all the normal optics that have been ripped from other weapons are pinpoint accurate but yeah

for whatever reason the scopes never are

not a massive deal I always use the same sight anyway

[pastel yew]

also this would be dope

talk about multipurpose

big slasher, stabber and bonker

all on the same weapon

[marsh condor]

The best weapon for a Death World Veteran

[winter dock]

If you have any of the "Crosshair fix" mods, those break with weapon customization

weapon customization sort of kind of has a crosshair fix built in, just by necessity of being a mod that adds new sight alignments to guns

[slow spade]

Megabolter

[hollow warren]

these are the only mods I have installed atm, idk what exactly interferes with the sights situation

[slow spade]

Man fucking Hadron

[hollow warren]

sometimes the reflex sights work fine, sometimes get all jancky like on the screenshot above

[slow spade]

Please I want Surgical 4

[last parcel]

suffer

[winter dock]

Darkcache is deprecated, causes crashes, otherwise you don't have anything I didn't also have when I got the same exact bug. Try just deleting and then reinstalling the mod I guess?

[carmine cradle]

hello, regular damnation enjoyer here
to the auric maelstrom players, what are your thoughts on the new shotgun, now that youve had some time to play with it?

[gray finch]

did you disable the animation for cover/ crouch >?

where weapon goes up whil not aimed

[lusty sapphire]

What should I change in here?

[pastel yew]

+ordo dockets

x3

or at least that would be the ideal if fatshark werent holding us back from true glory

I yearn for the day I can drop with 9x ordo dockets

I do think curios are personal pref tho

[lusty sapphire]

I no joke though about doing that

[pastel yew]

so just take what you want

[lusty sapphire]

The gambling is that annoying

[pastel yew]

I do think ordo dockets is unironically the best option though

given... well

when the games over thats all that matters

[lusty sapphire]

I'll probably change health to toughness cause I'm already running 2 21% health

Maybe snipers to gunner

[pastel yew]

yeah if you're getting hit by em its a pretty nice decrease

its a shame it only applies to the elites n such though

not the plebbies

[lusty sapphire]

Yeah but still

Given how there's 8 gunners minimum shooting at you

I find their dmg despite dodging them and shooting eventually adds up too much

[carmine cradle]

id consider throwing a +5% toughness on there, or some stamina regen
stamina regen good
12% is pretty significant

[faint beacon]

Plus they stun you once they start dealing HP damage

That’s not fun

[carmine cradle]

im the kind of person who will take 2 stamina regen and get 24% faster stamina regen

and like

having that much extra stamina to play with is pretty fricking good

just makes you generaly safer

tank vs dodge

generally speaking, getting hit less is better than being able to take more hits

[lusty sapphire]

It's a good idea I'll repurpose the ither 17% for that. I started running cdr on my curios on shout and pretty much It's always up when I need it

[pastel yew]

I think my issue with this mentality is like

if you fail a dodge

you're still blocking

if you get stuck blocking

you die

[carmine cradle]

shove good

sprint good

[pastel yew]

I hate the hit stun when you have no stamina on block

it just makes blocking feel so much more useless than dodging

which is incredibly forgiving

[pastel yew]

sprint slide is like

the same speed

and next to no stamina usage

[carmine cradle]

sure, but still consumes SOME stamina

[pastel yew]

shoving is good though how much you get out of that is gonna depend on your weapon

[pastel yew]

not always

[carmine cradle]

and also, if your mid slide it means you cant then initiate a slide

[pastel yew]

not for psyker, or vet if you have both -0.25 stam delay nodes

[carmine cradle]

you cant initiate a slide while sliding

you CAN initiate a slide while sprinting

[marble mantle]

Honestly I was talking before about wanting vet to have some objective-based, almost like servitor-esque skills, but infil with low profile opens up all of that tbh. This build allows me to clutch in like so many different ways lol it’s awesome

I wish I could get bring it down but can’t really afford it

And I can run most any weapon I want to, since most vet melees are pretty light. I’ve been running Knife and Cviag and it’s been a lot of fun

[carmine cradle]

out of the veteran combat abilities, stealth probably has the most carry potential

which, given its very selfish nature, makes sense

[faint beacon]

VOC is right there

[carmine cradle]

stealth revives op

[marble mantle]

I think VOC has really good team help potential and great clutch potential, but it’s more like an “oh shit” button than infil is, whereas you can use it methodically to do an entire objective without worry

[faint beacon]

Don’t need to worry about revives when your entire team has golden toughness

[marble mantle]

Sure and voc is great, but it doesn’t last as long

Infil is more selfish, but you can use it to straight up solo entire objectives

[carmine cradle]

yeah
and the other thing is VOC is outright the best in a coordinated team, because its a supportive ability first and foremost
its ability to keep not just you, but your entire team in a fight is unmatched by anything apart from MAYBE holy relic

[marble mantle]

I used it to carry my team through the new maps objectives last night

[carmine cradle]

but if your team is BAD
stealth is probably better

[marble mantle]

Id say not even bad, just less coordinated, and as someone who plays with randoms, that’s pretty much always

[carmine cradle]

at the end of the day, the objective is the end all be all of whether or not you complete the mission

[marble mantle]

Exactly

[pastel yew]

its definitely the most apparent

[marble mantle]

I love exe stance don’t get me wrong, but the clutch potential feels pretty minimal. It’s a preemptive action, not reactionary. VOC is pretty reactionary, and infil is both.

[pastel yew]

but shout keeps people up

if you're killing fast enough like

shout is huge

but it does require coherency which is

[carmine cradle]

in a coordinated team VOC can make the ENTIRE mission, objectives included, a breeze, by sheer defensive team utility and frequency

[pastel yew]

not always maintained ig

[marble mantle]

Right, VOC is def a better team skill

[pastel yew]

stealth is definitely better if you're solo quickplay though

[marble mantle]

I take infil so I can take the charge if it needs to be done, like no one is able to do any objective or something

[carmine cradle]

voc lets a coordinated team play faster and riskier while still be relatively safe
stealth lets you solo complete the entire match

[marble mantle]

Right

[pastel yew]

voc plasma vet is ludicrous

[marble mantle]

I feel like I’m actually getting to know vet pretty well now

[pastel yew]

you get your cooldown reduced so much

[carmine cradle]

voc plasma vet is ludicrous

[marble mantle]

With born leader and gloryhunter? Not even a question lmao

[pastel yew]

it can be both lmao

[pastel yew]

immortal

[carmine cradle]

they are individually busted as hell

[pastel yew]

mhm

[marble mantle]

Exactly lol

[pastel yew]

maybe one day plasma will be nerfed

[carmine cradle]

the fact you can COMBINE them is, uh, fair and balanced

[marble mantle]

Anyway, gotta get to work, but just wanted to pop in and chat

[pastel yew]

I swear someone on the dev team has a hard on for broken vet builds though

[marble mantle]

Speak my words

[pastel yew]

given the state of weapon specialist

[carmine cradle]

oh shit, itemization post from fatshark in #📢news-bulletin

[pastel yew]

and no plasma gun nerfs in the recent patch

outside of a sort of indirect one that doesnt really matter

[marble mantle]

DONT TELL ME THAT RIGHT BEFORE WORK

[carmine cradle]

they JUST posted it

[pastel yew]

oh?

I thought like

we'd have no real info for a while

since they're all on holiday

yay? though.. seems like the game just being made easier again since everyone will have perfect gear

like its a nice change but

hopefulyl the difficulty changes keep coming too

[faint beacon]

Well I appreciate trickle fed info vs nothing so I’m for it

[marble mantle]

The amount of Mastery XP is based on what difficulty the player plays. The higher the difficulty, the higher amount of XP is awarded. Experience gained will remain the same, no matter the weapon you use the most during a mission.

If you fail a run, you will be awarded a portion of the XP just as with normal Experience and Ordo Docket rewards.

[carmine cradle]

yesssss buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

[marble mantle]

Im feeling tingly

[carmine cradle]

they are nerfing various blessings to compensate

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean me too, though I dont mind them all taking some holiday away

[marble mantle]

I’m cool with it

[carmine cradle]

i smell a dum dum and BM nerf

[pastel yew]

scandanavian winter sounds so shit

blessings probably need a pass over

honestly a lot of blessings are just nothing

and then others are insane

[marble mantle]

“Moreover, in the new system, you’ll be able to freely swap out any blessings and perks on any weapon, at any level of Mastery, without them becoming locked after two changes.”

🤤

[carmine cradle]

Kowalski, analysis

OH SHIT THATS ACTUALLY HUGE

[pastel yew]

theres an interesting question here in that

if a new family of weapons gets introduced

[carmine cradle]

NO LEGIT THIS IS HUGE

[pastel yew]

you will just have to fully grind out with no headstart

[carmine cradle]

it means we can still get a whole bunch of blessings easily with the CURRENT system

[pastel yew]

whereas in current system you can have gear ready instantly

[carmine cradle]

and then only spend mastery points on the few we dont unlock via gamba

[faint beacon]

Oh that is actually huge

So you can either stick to the old system and get lucky

Or, just play the weapon

[marble mantle]

Ok work time now

[pastel yew]

my collecting of like.. every blessing I can will be paying off big though I hope

mad mastery xp

[carmine cradle]

so, from my understanding
a) every current weapon you own will stay unchanged, bar actual balance changes to individual weapons/blessings, as per most updates
b) all blessing libraries will be converted to mastery points for that weapon family
c) we will then have both the current gamba system, AND the mastery system for unlocking blessings

[pastel yew]

o7 enjoy

[carmine cradle]

so if you want 2 blessings for a weapon
you can gamaba a few times to hopefully get ONE of them
and spend your mastery points on the OTHER

"Also, loot is still part of the system. The fact that we are still keeping the RNG loot system in place (Emperor’s Gift, Sire Melk’s Requisitorium, The Armoury Exchange, and the ability to Consecrate weapons at Hadron’s Shrine with random upgrades, etc) will allow players to get to weapon builds that they have not unlocked in their Mastery before they actually get there. The loot system will be able to shortcut you to things that you have not yet unlocked."

[pastel yew]

thats good

you wont be able to start with a weapon that's strong usually then for new patterns but

its not just

grey item

[carmine cradle]

do get a perfect weapon, you arent gambling for like
2/2 blessings with perfect stats
ur gambling for more like
1/2 with pretty decent stats
WAY easier

[pastel yew]

given its mentioned in the post they're still hashing out the final details this update is likely

still a little ways out

[carmine cradle]

sure, BUT

if THAT part remains unchaged, this is REALLY GOOD

[pastel yew]

I'm wondering if it'll drop with the ps5 port

[carmine cradle]

i thought the old system was getting outright REMOVED

[pastel yew]

given xbox port also brought with it actual content

[carmine cradle]

no, its still KINDA here

[pastel yew]

yeah I mean

its there but its different as

before the point of those systems was to get the things to craft weapons

now you don't get them that way

so those systems exist to just, rng get a good base weapon

to tide you over as you grind xp

[carmine cradle]

this, i think
makes this system just directly better than the old one
because it keeps a decent amount of the GOOD parts of the old system
while circumventing the worst parts

the one major thing we are ACTUALLY losing then

is the ability to take a blessing OFF a weapon, and put it ONTO a new one

[pastel yew]

I mean honestly my view on the current crafting system is maybe a little controversial but

I think in 90% of circumstances what we have is entirely fine

its just certain hyper specific powerful blessings that are fucked up

[carmine cradle]

which for godrolled weapons wasnt SUPER important
as you still needed your godroll weapon to HAVE one of the blessings anyways, ideally BOTH so you could change the PERKS

[pastel yew]

getting a good, solid weapon is very easy

outside of like.. weapons that NEED specific t4 blessings

or t2 for the shotgun shitters

[carmine cradle]

...yeah, and breakpoints

needing specific things to 1 shot or 2 shot specific enemies is kinda annoying

[pastel yew]

I mean a lot of breakpoints are incredibly forgiving

there are some where its not

like plasmagun and rashad

have some slightly fucky barely off breakpoints

[carmine cradle]

depends HEAVILY on the weapon

[pastel yew]

mhm

[carmine cradle]

worst offenders, obviously, are the really hard hitting single shot weapons

plasma gun, revolvers, bolters, etc

[pastel yew]

aka the weapons that are

literally S tier

except the bolters

[carmine cradle]

sure, but they're really only s tier when they HIT the breakpoints

[pastel yew]

so not like they really need the boost kekeke

true

hopefully with the grind being reduced to get there

those weapons can be more accurately brought into line

[carmine cradle]

so I'm HOPING that this update makes GETTING bolters/revolvers/plasma guns that hit important breakpoints less frusttrating

and for other builds, generally getting good weapons less frustrating

my one concern is
if the power level of a blessing changes in a FUTURE, its going to feel bad if you JUST bought it for a whole bunch of mastery points

notebly, atleast, the lock icons are just GONE

[pastel yew]

yeah but its never going to feel good if you buy something that gets nerfed

on the other hand though

most things that are getting nerfed... pretty obvious

so if you see something super strong you gotta just accept the risk as you know its likely to get tapped

[old quail]

flechette is actually buffed in that screenshot

[pastel yew]

but the balance team at fatshark work in mysterious ways

[old quail]

think about that

[pastel yew]

wasn't it originally 6?

[old quail]

at t4 it's 2 stacks rn

[pastel yew]

and then it got nerfed

[old quail]

it used to be 8

[pastel yew]

in the most recent patch

[old quail]

well 6 for shotguns

8 for rippers

[pastel yew]

why'd it even get adjusted like

[old quail]

(the rippers have higher fire rate on top of per-crit bursts in hipfire don't ask me why those numbers were chosen)

[carmine cradle]

flechette 1 is buffed

no idea about higher flechette levels

[pastel yew]

6 at t1 is already higher than 4

so I guess thats good

[old quail]

flechette is t2 exclusive atm i don't think they'd make t2 give u less bleed

[pastel yew]

weird they.. changed it

[pastel yew]

would be funny though

best not to question it, they work in mysterious ways

a lot of the balance changes last patch were a big ? from me

though there were some good ones

some very confusing ones too

[carmine cradle]

from that screenshot, though, we are still gambling for perfect max stats

which
fucking sucks

[pastel yew]

but the "perfect max stats" dont matter

its just a completionist like

nice to see

slightly off stats will be literally identical

I wonder though

if this makes it optimal to buy a shit load of weapons

at low character level

since the minimums will be lowest

[carmine cradle]

...most of the time, yes
although for rapid fire weapons, every point of damage matters when firing at larger targets

[faint beacon]

Flechette buff…….

[pastel yew]

it's rarely going to make any kind of impactful difference though

and like you say, only for larger targets

and no matter what you will have enough stats to max damage

you might just have like 74% ammo or something silly

[carmine cradle]

i was HOPING this update would mean we gamble to get weapons
and then can freely allocate the remaing difference between current stats and the total of 380 however wed like

and the benefit of starting with larger numbers is that its cheaper

because you arent increasing the stats by as much

[pastel yew]

I dont get why all rng isn't just removed from base crafted weapons though

most of it is already gone so

weird that lil bit remains

[carmine cradle]

kinda what im getting at, yeah

[elder fiber]

Yeah its actually less so for automatic weapons, like missing a 1tap on plasma is way bigger than ciag taking 1-2 more shots on smth

[carmine cradle]

@pastel yew you were thinking something like this, yeah?

[pastel yew]

I was hoping just, stat allocation or craft your own ideal weapon. then shops n such are still rng but

they give you a head start

what we have is effectively that just

not as pretty

since your stats will be messy even if the power level is the same

[marble mantle]

My guess is something like this will come in time. I doubt this will be where they stop.

[carmine cradle]

...the difference between 1 shotting and not one shooting with plasma is more impactful, yes
but PAST that breakpoint its almost completely irrelevant

inversely, when shooting large target with something high firerate and low damage every point of damage is a slightly shorter ttk, and for slightly less ammo

over the course of the game it adds up

[marble mantle]

But this is a big first step

[torpid grotto]

From what im understanding you are basically just rolling 380s every time. I dont think it will be that hard to get an ideally distributed 380

[faint beacon]

God I’m realizing how simple I am when I’m more happy to see Flechette 1 being 6 stacks of bleed on Crit vs literally everything else lmao

[pastel yew]

yeah which is good, though it'd be nice to be able to make your stat block look pretty and ideal ;p

thats just a completionist itch I've got ig

[carmine cradle]

...i hadnt though of it like that
theres still a LOT of combinations of 380 though

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/neuron-activation-neuron-gif-1455356329209493514

sometimes its the lil things in life

[faint beacon]

Yeah FLECHETTE 1

[carmine cradle]

finding the division of 380 you WANT is still gonna be a shitload of gambling

[faint beacon]

Meaning there’s a TIER 4

[carmine cradle]

not necessarily

could only go up to 2

[torpid grotto]

At the end of the day you need some component of rng to make the items feel intrinsically valuable

[carmine cradle]

base stats, to make getting them to the desired stat total cheaper

is what i would do

also, weapons can be SOLD

[faint beacon]

I find it hard to believe with how infernus is but I’m genuinely hoping there’s going to be a Tier 3-4 of Flechette

[carmine cradle]

im hoping this will be changed

[faint beacon]

Sorry I just really like gimmicky but good blessings

[carmine cradle]

having to grind out EACH family for EACH class is still super annoying

an im hoping they change their mind on this

ok im gonna have to read these 2 more carefully

[faint beacon]

It’s annoying yeah, it’s really just telling me that I should focus 100%ing my personal favorites on Veteran first before I do my second played class

[carmine cradle]

oh, ok, so weapons wont be shared

blessing mastery WILL be

so you grind for an individual weapon per character

but the weapon mastery you grind for your ACCOUNT

which is sweet

[faint beacon]

I’d figure the mastery whichever blessings are will be shared

Just the stat upgrades

Expertise?

That’s obviously going to be different

[carmine cradle]

they talked about it in the original steam post

my hopes for the future are, in order of what i think is reasonable to a damn pipe dream
a) further reducing the rng in weapon stats
b) having blessings that are found on multiple weapons either be unlocked for EVERY weapon with that blessing, for to give partial global mastery of that blessing

for that second one, think of things like Brutal Momentum
even if I've unlocked it for my Power sword, I still dont have it for my slab shield or axes

[terse idol]

I doubt they'll apply weapon mastery for blessings accross different families

[carmine cradle]

which
considering the ritual is probably very similar regardless of which weapon the blessing is being put on
doesnt make a whole lot of sense from a lore perspective
and is really annoying from a gameplay perspective

[faint beacon]

Look I’m still in shock they recognized Flechette is terrible and buffed it lmao

[carmine cradle]

which is why i think its the more unreasonable of the 2

when like 8 weapon families have the SAME blessing

[terse idol]

But when 1 weapon family only has 1 blessing

[faint beacon]

Man-Cleaver, Flechette

Weeps

[carmine cradle]

unlocking it 8 times just doesnt feel as rewarding, even for powerful blessings like brutal momentum and slaughterer

[faint beacon]

I know for a damn fact BM is going to get nerfed

Headtaker and Slaughterer might be toned down a tinsy bit but not like hit heavy at all

But my god BM is absolutely going to get hit lmao

[carmine cradle]

for brutal momentum

1. power mauls
2. combat axes
3. tactical axes
4. power swords
5. slab shields
6. latrine shovels
   are all different weapon families

like, i like slaughterer its good

but unlocking 6 times?

less good

ya feel me?

slaightere is worse i think

1. thunder hammers
2. pickaxe
3. cleaver
4. force sword
5. power sword
6. assault chainaxe

headtaker has 2 different blessings

if we count for BOTH

1. thammer
2. com axe
3. tac axe
4. pick axe
   5 chain axe
5. h sword

so like
these 3 blessings are going to be 18 masteries

which feels bad

idk, maybe thats a hot take

speedload is 7 families

[tall torrent]

I think they said every weapon can reach 380?

[carmine cradle]

yes, HOWEVER
which dispersion of 380 is random

[terse idol]

You just don't take BM for something like a shovel

[tall torrent]

Yea but it’s still way better than rn

[terse idol]

Just dump mobility

[carmine cradle]

consideirng how MANY combos of 380 there are, its still pretty frustrating

[tall torrent]

The fact that u can boost everything to 380 means it’s gonna be much easier for u to get breakpoints

[terse idol]

2ell

[carmine cradle]

well thats the thing, you dont get to fully CHOOSE your dump
its somewhat random

[terse idol]

Well, only 1 stat will be at a 60

So there's only so many permutations that are bad

And mostly that's a defensive stat, or stability

[tall torrent]

The worst possible combo u can get when everything can reach 380 is 4x80 +60
At that point it’s just bad luck (but actually bad luck, not RNG heavy bad luck)

They haven’t shown anything to go above 80 in stats yet

[carmine cradle]

the blue numebrs here represent what the max stats of that specific instance of that weapon are, once fully upgraded

[tall torrent]

Yea and that adds up to 380

That stat spread is fine

It makes no difference in breakpoints

[carmine cradle]

sure
but HOW that 380 is disributed is still completely random

which is what annoys me

[tall torrent]

Yes but the worst u can get in the new system is 4x80 + 60 (1 complete dump)

[carmine cradle]

...most of the time, no, it wont
but SOMETIMES it will

its still obviously WAY LESS rng dependant that the old system, im not arguing that

it it IS still rng dependant

which
annoys me

[terse idol]

Frankly it seems better to get a weapon that isn't a perfect roll

[torpid grotto]

I think most of the time people will actually be shooting for this distribution

[terse idol]

God rolls are actually inflexible and shit

[tall torrent]

Even for the ones that need very specific stats to reach breakpoints it’ll still be way easier to reach just because u can get everything to a high enough number

[terse idol]

In this new itemization system you don't want to

[tall torrent]

Got a 60 dmg dump? What’s the problem, get a new one

[carmine cradle]

well its just that now ur trying to perfect roll WHICH 380 spread you get
instead of also having to deal with the rng of GETTING a 380 spread at all

[terse idol]

Not unless that dump stat is mobility

[tall torrent]

Rn it’s literally 500k dockets for 1 usable stat distribution

[terse idol]

I mean

It seems like you can baby a level 60 weapon to a 380 stat distribution

[marble mantle]

Exactly

[somber axle]

I'm really happy because I have a Tac Axe Mk IV with a very weird stat distribution from being so low ilvl and now I can upgrade it and get the missing dodge LOL

[torpid grotto]

They will be shooting for this as the maximum potential

[carmine cradle]

you are now GURANETEED a 380 spread
but how that 380 is spread is still completely random

[marble mantle]

Hard to complain about going anywhere but lower

[tall torrent]

It depends on the weapon

[carmine cradle]

thats it, thats my gripe

[terse idol]

The best weapons are 1 that don't have maxed stats

So you can change it

[carmine cradle]

its better, yes, i prefer this to the old system, obviously

but like
they couldve just let us do with our weapons what we want

and didnt

[terse idol]

They did

[carmine cradle]

no, they didnt

[terse idol]

Besides stat distribution

[marble mantle]

Maybe eventually 🤷‍♂️ let’s just enjoy the change for now

[terse idol]

Which, it again

[carmine cradle]

well, stat distribution is most slots on a weapon than blessings + perks

[terse idol]

Seems like we can just roll all weapons to a 380

[carmine cradle]

5 slots, perks and blessings only make up 4

[terse idol]

Which, in a system without locks has effectively removed the majority of rng

[carmine cradle]

all weapons just HAVE a max of 380
you can upgrade them TO that limit with various points
but HOW you can upgrade them is random per weapon

[tall torrent]

Get any weapon (max 380, random stat spread but you’re pretty much guaranteed 70+ on everything)
Swap any perk & any blessing of ur choosing with no limits

[marble mantle]

As long as it’s objectively better than the old system, which it is

[terse idol]

Yeah because of stat distribution

[somber axle]

Bricks are no longer bricks

[terse idol]

Bricks were infact gold

[somber axle]

Low base rating weapons are no longer useless

[carmine cradle]

but getting the actual spread you WANT is still gonna be kinda annoying, especially for specific weapons that want to get 78+ in like 3 stats

[terse idol]

[terse idol]

Okay I'm gonna hit up a hypothetical

[somber axle]

This is objectively better LOL

From how the thing reads this opens up customization for end game

[terse idol]

In this new system, you just get any 1 weapon like your plasma gun that needs 78+ damage stats

[tall torrent]

What’s the actual spread u want

[terse idol]

You have, like 2 stats you don't want

[carmine cradle]

for MOST weapons, itll be good enough
its 100000% better than the old system, atleast in terms of getting correctly STATTED weapons, its objectively just better

[tall torrent]

Besides weapons like plasma that require 78+ in 2 stats

[terse idol]

And then you build that weapon up to max damage stats

[carmine cradle]

its a hypothetical
most of the time, like i said, itll be good enough

[terse idol]

So it's easier to get maxed damage distribution

[tall torrent]

Ok what’s the practical

[terse idol]

The more useless stats there are

[carmine cradle]

but i will always be a voice in favour of more build control, just in general
its pretty ahrd to argue having LESS build control is MORE fun

atleast, in any way i would agree with
but thats getting into the subjectiveness of fun, which

im not gonna do

for ME, more build control = more fun

[tall torrent]

What weapon actually wants u to have an extremely specific stat distribution

[carmine cradle]

so i LIKE the update, cause it gives us more build control
but i still want MORE

cause im me

if that makes sense

[marble mantle]

I get what they’re getting at in theory but it’s such a specific problem that very very few weapons suffer from

[carmine cradle]

but its max damage stat might be, like, 72
the max of each stat is random, its the blue number in the screenshots they added

[marble mantle]

More control would be nice, and it’s what we’re getting, just not 100% control

[tall torrent]

I know what they’re saying, I also know that what they’re saying is pure theory

[spice wadi]

A lot of weapons just have a couple to avoid getting dumped and then you're gucci

[marble mantle]

Yeah I hear you

[tall torrent]

There’s not a single weapon I know that wants an extremely specific distribution in 3+ stats

[radiant chasm]

Having weapon families not share the exact blessing lets things like the evi nerf to bloodletter happen

[tall torrent]

Even Rashad is just
Get as high in 4 stats as u can
Which the new system enables u to do

[carmine cradle]

each weapon will have random base stats
and random max stats
the random max stats will be a distribution of 80
but HOW they are distributed, ie, the limits of how you can upgrade a weapon, are random

if you roll a plasma gun, it might have a damage stat of 60, with a max of 72
YOU CAN NOT GET THE DAMAGE STAT OF THAT PLASMA GUN ABOVE 72

[woeful ibex]

so like weapons exps carry over?

especially the blessings we unlocked?

[tall torrent]

Ok get another plasma? What’s the problem here

[marble mantle]

Right but like, before, you couldn’t get it above 60

[terse idol]

If it's 72, then IN THEORY the max stats aren't gonna be 380

[tall torrent]

You’re asking the grind to be removed essentially

[marble mantle]

It is, an objective, step up

[radiant chasm]

Basically, even tho i dont entirely agree from it, there is something beneficial about it, and that is fatshark being able to balance blessings for individual weapons without hitting all weapons woth that blessing

[carmine cradle]

i mean, they could still let the blessings function differently on different weapons

[terse idol]

And you have 8 points to increase that stat to 80

[carmine cradle]

the problem is i dont like gambling
i prefer build control

[terse idol]

You'd need a really weird stat distribution

[marble mantle]

The gambling is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced with this

[terse idol]

It's not that jafsrob is arguing they don't like it, they just don't want gambling

They want full control

Daats it

I just don't think running into situations where you don't get your preferenced stat distribution is gonna be very common

[carmine cradle]

well, they could still be, we got 4 other stats to work with
could be like, 72 + 80 + 75 + 73 + 80

thats 380

[terse idol]

I just have never seen a stat distribution like this

[tall torrent]

Outside of a few weapons that need rly specific numbers in some stats I don’t see problems

[terse idol]

And it'll be rare

[tall torrent]

And even for those weapons it’s significantly reduced RNG/gamble

[marble mantle]

Honestly I’m just glad we’re getting a change at all

[carmine cradle]

yes, I want to be clear THIS IS A GOOD DIRECTION
I also want to make it clear, I'm 100% in favour of continuing in this direction

[tall torrent]

There’re only like, 3 of them lol

[terse idol]

It's rare now to even get a 380 in all but 1 dump stat that's mobility
You're telling me it's gonna be common to see stat distribution on max 380, with 2 stats on 80

[marble mantle]

I’m so tired of having to buy hundreds of thousands of dockets worth of the same gun to get a usable one

[terse idol]

Or err I shouldn't say common

[marble mantle]

Nah I hear you I know you think that, I just wanna get at like, it’s not perfect, but it’s what we got for now

[terse idol]

That stat distribution you listed is as rare as a stat distribution that's all 80's and 60's

In theory

[marble mantle]

No hurt in wanting more, but don’t let it drag you down

[carmine cradle]

#veteran-class message

the 2 SS they provided to us

[tall torrent]

Plasma (78+ in dmg & SP)
Flamer (76+ in burn)
Purgatus (76+ in burn)

[terse idol]

I mean I'm just not gonna upgrade into mobility or range

They put 10 points in range

[carmine cradle]

again, obvioulsy I LIKE the update
but again, most people like this update BECAUSE it reduces rng
I'm just saying I would appreciate rng being reduced even further

[terse idol]

If what I'm hearing is right
You'll always be able to achieve a 380

[carmine cradle]

yes

[radiant chasm]

Ds4 has like a mythical crusher oneshot that needs 80 on all damage stats (as well as a lot of talents lining up)

[terse idol]

So having lower stat distribution is better

[carmine cradle]

no

[tall torrent]

yea I don’t consider that

[terse idol]

How do you reckon?

It'll be more expensive but if all of your stats are baseline 60

[radiant chasm]

Oh wait crushers got buffed

[carmine cradle]

the 380 distribution peak of a weapon is PREDETERMINED when you get the weapon

[radiant chasm]

Idk if ds4 can hit a crusher oneshot anymore

[carmine cradle]

you CANNOT CHANGE how the 380 is distrubuted

[terse idol]

I'm getting conflicting messaging

[carmine cradle]

you can only get it to the predetermined deistribution of 380

[carmine cradle]

have you LOOKED at the screenshots?

[radiant chasm]

Yes but the viability of weapons is increased in general

[carmine cradle]

of the shotguns

that they provided?

you SHOULD

[last parcel]

i just took a fat SHIT

and i saw some CORN in there

[terse idol]

I was under the impression that like you could get a level 60 power level weapon from level 1

And then upgrade it to 380

[marble mantle]

I could SMELL it

It POPPED

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-smell-wwe-gif-15916777

[radiant chasm]

The amount of bases that will be viable now would be way better

[carmine cradle]

ok, im gonna post em again, so this guy can understand
@terse idol

[terse idol]

How the hell are they gonna calculate what stats are distributed without predeterming the maximum

[radiant chasm]

Even 300-310s if their 380 spread is perfect

[carmine cradle]

@terse idol look VERY carefuly at those screenshots

do you see the blue numbers?

[terse idol]

Unless the max stat you can get in that weapon is already predetermined

[carmine cradle]

LOOK AT THE MF SCREENSHOTS

DO YOU SEE THE BLUE NUMBERS?

[terse idol]

Oh they are?

[carmine cradle]

DO YOU SEE

THE BLUE NUMBERS?

[terse idol]

I thought the blue meant that's what they already upgrade

[tall torrent]

Yea they’re predetermined

[last parcel]

THE NUMBERS MASON

[terse idol]

[last parcel]

WHAT DO THEY MEAAAAAAAAAN

[carmine cradle]

DO YOU SEE THE BLUE NUMBERS YES OR NO?

[terse idol]

This is fine

[carmine cradle]

ARE YOU COLOUR BLIND?

[tall torrent]

It just means that if u don’t want that specific stat distribution (which only matters for 3 weapons), you go get another

[crude fiber]

Wait so 380 will still be the max? Does that mean you can't get high rolled stats naturally and will always have to upgrade the stats?

[tall torrent]

It’s not a big deal

[terse idol]

I just need to roll as many weapons to see the max stat distribution of any given weapon

[last parcel]

in VORKUTA

we are all BROTHERS

[carmine cradle]

i believe you CAN still get 380's at random

[terse idol]

That's okay

These weapons have max mobility anyways they're shit

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[crude fiber]

Is this new system even adding anything to the game then? Or could a 300 gear score weapon be upgraded to a 380?

[tall torrent]

The biggest revelation rn is that if u have a 380 with 1 stat bricked it’s basically beyond saving

[radiant chasm]

This

[tall torrent]

Everything goes up to 380 apparently

[crimson pebble]

My biggest cope

[terse idol]

380 maxed weapons are already actually shit tier infact

[carmine cradle]

...lets do some quiiiick math
if we assume the MINIUM for a stat is, like, 60, and the max is 80, and were locked to a 380 max

[crude fiber]

So all weapons can be 380, I guess this MIGHT help save some bricked rolls

[radiant chasm]

So a focus to deterministic to make more bases overall more value, at the cost of same rng to roll a natural 380, ehh i’ll take it

[crude fiber]

Just another layer of rng for stat upgrade limits

[terse idol]

If 1 stat is maxed to 60 then you already found what you need basically

[carmine cradle]

i have realized this equation is WAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more complicated than i thought it was, so im getting some ai help on it

[tall torrent]

Lemme show u what a sad 380 would look like in the new system

[somber axle]

Really just removing locks, letting you upgrade weapon ilvl to 380, buffing some blessings like Flechette and unlocking more weapon families across more classes (they explicitly mention all shotguns will be usable on Veteran, Zealot and Psyker as a example)

[terse idol]

AI when it just gives you the wrong informstion

Homie no

[somber axle]

There will also be new cosmetics for weapons I think?

[somber axle]

Once you unlock the full mastery/expertise thing

[tall torrent]

This is as sad as 380 can go basically

[terse idol]

Generative AI can't even do basic math let alone complex formulas

[crude fiber]

Well I have most of the blessings in the game so that'll be cool I guess

[terse idol]

Me as I gaslit the generative AI so 1 + 1 = 3

[faint beacon]

I’m so glad I’m not the only one who actually immediately noticed Flechette being buffed

[tall torrent]

Huh

Wait yea

Flechette 6 stacks on tier 1

Lemme guess, 9 stacks on tier 4?

Damn that’s huge

[terse idol]

I guess now the search is on to get just 1 stat dump for most weapons or two depending on the weapon

[tall torrent]

Flechette + manstopper meta for DB shotgun (eventually)

[crude fiber]

Multiple flechette tiers? Lawbringer gonna go hard I guess

[somber axle]

Put Flechette on Recons so I can do Infernus + Flechette Gunker

[tall torrent]

The only weapons this new system fucks over are plasma, flamer & purgatus
Everything else can very easily obtain godroll

But even for those 3 it’s way easier to get a good one than rn

[terse idol]

I feel like they're gonna make manstopper t4

[crude fiber]

Are bosses elite enemies or their own tier of enemy?

[terse idol]

And not t2

[crimson pebble]

Ill do you one better

[wanton dawn]

Implying most people won't destroy their weapon with bad stats distrib anyway

[terse idol]

my insane arc when I have to mention they might remove infinite cleave from a t2 blessing

[radiant chasm]

Yea all blessings will have t1-t4 now

[faint beacon]

You saw my DB I’m 4 steps ahead

[terse idol]

To be fair like you can see

The max

You can't ruin the stat distribution

[radiant chasm]

No more tier 2/tier 3/ tier 4 only nonsense

[terse idol]

It's already determined

[wanton dawn]

You lack imagination

[tall torrent]

I have a 550 (to be) true godroll plasma on standby for crafting rework

hits all breakpoints if it had good perks & blessings

[terse idol]

[crimson pebble]

What about the odd ones for some of pyskers staff or rumbler

[tall torrent]

hits perfect stat distribution

380 roll

[terse idol]

Oh thank god

[carmine cradle]

probably, but the reason im gonna TRY it is this equation is SUPER complicated, because the number of possible combinations is SUPER high

[terse idol]

But also oh no, manstopper nerf

No more infinite cleave

[faint beacon]

What’s it being changed too?

[terse idol]

Few weapons are ever gonna need it besides like 4

[carmine cradle]

ur basically rolling 5 d21's (0-20, inclusive)
and eliminating all the combinations of these results that dont total a set number, in this case 80
the remaining reults are are valid and MIGHT be rolled
thats still a LOT of possible combinations

[terse idol]

I dunno, if what bandit is saying is true, then all blessings will exist at every tier

[radiant chasm]

Attach a stat buff

[terse idol]

If current t2 manstopper is infinite cleavr

Then it will definetly get nerfed if it's tiered

[radiant chasm]

Ie adhesive charge has an ogryn and monstro damage buff

Now

[faint beacon]

True

[radiant chasm]

So you can scale that number

[faint beacon]

It probably won’t be as severe as we’re thinking

[radiant chasm]

Similar to how BM was changed for weakspot damage to scale between tiers

[terse idol]

I mean ima be real, manstopper pretty OP

Maxed cleave will actually help it out

To make it more balanced

Potentially it could also receive a damage buff

[faint beacon]

Why I run Flechette on it, cause it’s fucking hilarious

[crimson pebble]

What about like the hipfire while sprinting for staff or secondary charge cant be interrupted you know anything on those

[terse idol]

In exchange for capped cleave

[faint beacon]

It’s not optimal at all

But my god is it funny

[terse idol]

For sure

[radiant chasm]

Oh and perfect strike got crit damage (they wrote crit chance on the patch notes but it gives crit dmg)

[terse idol]

The reality is, it will see a nerf

[radiant chasm]

No idea specifically

[terse idol]

Fat shark doesn't like infinite cleave

[crimson pebble]

Unless youre plasama

[faint beacon]

I have a feeling it might be like, damage increase and cleave increase with a set cap

Tossing idea to the wind % elite damage?

[radiant chasm]

I can speculate, interruption protection could give DR while channeling, and sprinting and firing can give movement speed or any kind of stats

[faint beacon]

Idk

[marble mantle]

Mmmmm with weapon specialist 🤤

[radiant chasm]

Stam efficiency

[faint beacon]

That’s literally what I run with stopper + flech

[crimson pebble]

Im hoping they make lethal proximit start procing puncture on bolt pistol when they change everything around better yet just give it pinning fire

[marble mantle]

Tbf I don’t think it would make a lot of sense for plasma to not have inf cleave

[marble mantle]

Weapon specialist my beloved (I don’t use the other keystones much)

MF is bad for controller, and FT is good but it kinda feels like training wheels to get me to ping things, even though I know it’s very strong. WS is a great platform for my weapons.

Only problem I have with FT is it’s only one enemy at a time

[terse idol]

Thankfully nobody uses right click

[carmine cradle]

like, less rng is nice
but theres still (According to this python script)
10 THOUSAND combinations

[terse idol]

Yah

In reality

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668420727443030038/1263899743948378132/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_Screenshot_2024.07.19_-_12.46.05.23.png?ex=669be9dd&is=669a985d&hm=e9c626f9e85bab270aefb6834551597690f0ffe9411205c56edafd9b7c053b8f&
On standby

[terse idol]

It's still better

[carmine cradle]

WAY less than before, which is AWESOME dont get me wrong

[terse idol]

[marble mantle]

Will be so pog

[carmine cradle]

buuuut
were still gambling for 1/10k if we want a specific spread

[crude fiber]

When was this happening? In August?

[terse idol]

I just don't think any weapons need a 1 in 10k spread like

You'd have to be

a little insane

To want exactly 71! Damage

[carmine cradle]

no, but what if i WANT it?
just to see what its like?

[terse idol]

69 reload!

[somber axle]

probably sometime after Summer since Fatshark is on vacation mode I think?

[terse idol]

That's a you problem ima be real chief

Because then it's not about optimization anymore

[faint beacon]

They said supposedly late summer

[carmine cradle]

im not the only one who likes experimentation

[terse idol]

If you like to experiement

There's a mod that literally let's you pick exactly the stats

And exactly the perks

And exactly the blessings

To test

If you're experimenting you're not experimenting by rolling for a 1 in 10k stat distribution on live servers

[carmine cradle]

sure, but why NOT just put it into base game?
what argument do you have, from a gameplay perspective, AGAINST more build control?

[crude fiber]

It gonna piss me off when I get 300 roll with the potential to be a godroll and I have to dump a million resources into it to level it up

[terse idol]

Because this level of build control is insane

It's not reasonable

[crimson pebble]

To some

[terse idol]

It's not something you can balance

[terse idol]

If I'm gonna be inflammatory

The game simply is balanced for the average and not the 1% of people

[carmine cradle]

...im no sure what you mean
all of this is entirely possible to obtain with the proposed system
all i want is to remove the randomization portion

[terse idol]

That want to have Exactly

71 damage, 69 reload, 80 pen etc.

[carmine cradle]

the limit is EXACTLY THE SAME weather you get to choose the spread or not
and any spread you could manualy create with full build control would still be entirely possible to obtain with randomization

it just makes GETTING that spread less annoying by removing the rng

[somber axle]

I want a weapon with 69 in all stats

[carmine cradle]

theres no DETRIMENT to the average player for having more build control

[terse idol]

Well! That's the issue of progression and keeping players retained

[crimson pebble]

You simply just arent prepared enough for the exact breakpoints needed for the super secret enemy not even in the files yet

[terse idol]

With a max stat distribution of 345

That's more easily attainable

[somber axle]

do we have to upgrade weapons

or can we just like not

I have a 0% damage helbore I want to keep

it needs to stay at 0%

[terse idol]

It will likely stay at 0

Unless you like

Spend mats to upgrade it

[somber axle]

ok perfect

[terse idol]

Yes

[somber axle]

I want people to inspect me in pre-game auric damnation quickplay lobbies, see the 0% damage helbore and think I'm a clown

[carmine cradle]

...i mean, i GUESS?
id be for letting us tweak the max stat spread of a weapon for a price, so we only have to get within, say, 2 in either direction of our desired for the stats

[somber axle]

it's very important

[terse idol]

Actually you bring up a good point

Many people are gonna make 69 statted weapons

[crude fiber]

0% damage 80% everything else recons lasgun

[carmine cradle]

...if that stat rolls a max 65, ur shit out of luck

[last parcel]

i think you'll be fine

[terse idol]

You have a large range

Or well

[somber axle]

0% ammo 0% damage Recon here I come

[somber axle]

Perfect thank you

I can choose to stay in the trash

It's comfy here

[terse idol]

You need baseline 60-69% base stats

On all stats

[carmine cradle]

youd have to roll a weapon whos starting stat is below at or bellow 69 whos max stat is at or above 69
in EVERY stat

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/racoon-sprinkler-harp-gif-13190819

[terse idol]

So less than a 345

[terse idol]

[carmine cradle]

for EACH character who has that weapon
for EACH weapon in a family

[terse idol]

All I'm saying is

That's a non factor

It's a purely player choice

To do that

[carmine cradle]

sure, but why have the rng at all?

[terse idol]

For grinding

[carmine cradle]

the blessing unlock system is grindy enough as is (the new one i mean)

[faint beacon]

Yknow what

[terse idol]

Well that's different

Because that much is actually gameplay

[faint beacon]

I want a knife that has exactly 0% in damage

[terse idol]

Because that's one part of player progression

[carmine cradle]

well youre gonna have to do BOTH

[terse idol]

Leveling up mastery

[terse idol]

I mean stat distribution gameplay is just playing slots still

[carmine cradle]

its less tedious to max stuff out, yes
but it still tedious

im not saying there SHOULDNT be a grind

[terse idol]

And then once I'm satisfied I'm gonna like play the game to get mastery for my weapons

[carmine cradle]

(on top of the level 30 for each character grind)

[terse idol]

That much is just natural gameplay

Same as vt2

If anything Ogrynns are gonna have it the toughest

Unless they adjust the speed ogryns get blessings

Or err, get mastery xp

[somber axle]

tbh there's only one thing I will want to do with the update

instantly grind out mastery expertise to max on Recons for the new cosmetic skin

[carmine cradle]

for a new player got get their desired build they have to
grind to level 30
grind a weapon family until they get the desired blessings
roll weapons until they get the 1/10k stat spread roll
steps 2 and 3 must be repeated for the OTHER weapon they want for their build (2 slots, remember)

[somber axle]

the rest is just icing on the recon cake

[carmine cradle]

thats for 1 build
on 1 character

[crimson pebble]

Will their be new skins

[terse idol]

I mean

Okay back it up

[carmine cradle]

thats a LOT of grinding for 1 build on 1 character

[terse idol]

They infact don't need to get a 1 in 10k stat dist

They just need to get the minimum

[radiant chasm]

because it gives players serotonin to high roll that always overrides low rolling feels

[terse idol]

Because most weapons only require a minimum stat distribution to meet break points

[carmine cradle]

if their idea of "desired build" includes a specific stat spread, yes, it does

[terse idol]

The majority of weapons are like this

No

Because that player

Will be using a guide

You only need to roll

[radiant chasm]

that's a mentality problem at that point

[terse idol]

Your minimum stat distribution

To meet break points

And that only really means damage stats

[marble mantle]

That’s essentially the tutorial lol

[terse idol]

So instead of getting 1 in 10k stat distribution it might be 1000 in 10k or more

[marble mantle]

Once you finish all the penances for a character that’s when the game really starts

[carmine cradle]

idk, i just feel like the benefits of more build control DRASTICALLY outweighs any downsides compared to more rng, even just for casual players

[terse idol]

Depending on which stat distribution are desirable

[terse idol]

It just

Doesn't matter for 99% of situations

[carmine cradle]

like, is it going to be SUPER impactful, no
but i cant think of any reason NOT to give us more build control that isnt just stretching playtime further than necessary

[spice wadi]

I don't have enough pov across the kinda sector of games to rly understand if it's good/bad

[somber axle]

the amount of times a weapon requires a stat to be very specific high number to reach breakpoints is pretty low in general

[terse idol]

also some stats don't even really change how a gun plays like reload speed

[somber axle]

but hear me out

[spice wadi]

no

put on the gag

[terse idol]

because people don't feel a 0.5% increase or decreased reload speed

[last parcel]

honk honk

[somber axle]

if you get 75%+ collateral stat on the Boltgun you can use it with Exe Stance and a combat stim to pop a Bulwark shield in ONE SHOT

[last parcel]

nah bro this 72 stability helbore is unplayable

[terse idol]

IM GONNNA

SAY IT

THAT IS VERY EXPE SIVE

[carmine cradle]

yeah, but casual players are also going to like the funny meme of
MAXIMUM RELOAD SPEED DOUBLE BARREL
with 2 reload blessings, 80% reload speed stat, and the perk for reload speed

[last parcel]

sounds like somebody's poor

[spice wadi]

we will have the good old days of someone descending into insanity over 'it's just a build i like'

[terse idol]

Then they're only looking for a 80% max stat distribution for reload

[marble mantle]

Bro with that much focus on it you should be shooting through the bulwark shield 😭

[terse idol]

They don't actually care about anything else but the reload

[carmine cradle]

sure, BUT the casual players are also going to wan max damage (cause big number is fun)

[terse idol]

So that makes your amount of acceptable permutations much higher

[carmine cradle]

so thats 2

atLEAST

[terse idol]

Okay

[crimson pebble]

Ill be sure to save my stim for this next time

[terse idol]

Stull

It's gonna be

Alot higher than 1 in 10k

Because 1 in 10k implies you want

EXACTLY

These numbers

[terse idol]

Not a combination of stats that vary

[last parcel]

you also need pinning fire stacks

[faint beacon]

Which in an RNG slot machine is borderline impossible