veteran-class

[fleet drift]

Thx

[faint beacon]

Yeah Flak/Cara would technically make it sit at like what 75% in theory for pen

[fleet drift]

First time I see so many 80 on a weapon

[bitter turtle]

sadly

it doesnt have 80 in all the stats that matter

but it's ok

[fleet drift]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

usable since you got good rolls on perks/blessings

[faint beacon]

Roll High Voltage IV

And replace Hanmerblow with that and it should be really good

[bitter turtle]

yeah thats my setup

i used it in the game iposted earlier

#veteran-class message

no ammo scab mael

it did pretty well

[marble mantle]

Should I get this or is the finesse too low

Seems like a pretty good start

I fucking wish I could get manstopper I am getting no luck

I wish it wasn’t level based

So annoying I don’t wanna have to level again

[coral willow]

id gamble it

flak is great option

[marble mantle]

Bet yeah

[bitter turtle]

its workable

[marble mantle]

Skullcrusher 4

Is the start

[bitter turtle]

67 finesse is probably fine enough

and wow

[faint beacon]

Wait

[bitter turtle]

so its already guaranteed not bricked

[faint beacon]

No fucking way

[marble mantle]

Fuckin sweeeeeet

[bitter turtle]

yea

doesnt even matter what you roll for the last 2

[faint beacon]

You just got yourself a not bricked Saul

[bitter turtle]

you can just swap it

[faint beacon]

Lmao

[marble mantle]

Glory to the emperor

Finally a usable weapon

[coral willow]

i dont like sc that much but its a godroll

kek

[bitter turtle]

its a good weapon if u dont have many options

[marble mantle]

I loooooove saul

[bitter turtle]

already

[faint beacon]

Second perk I’m honestly unsure what the consensus is

But get High Voltage IV

[bitter turtle]

pretty much matches well into everything except boss

[marble mantle]

I’ll prob do HV

[coral willow]

i run HV/LR

[faint beacon]

To combo with Skullcrusher

[marble mantle]

And maniac ? Maybe

[faint beacon]

Maybe?…

[coral willow]

skullcrusher kinda bad for me

[bitter turtle]

i run cara to guarantee crusher 3 taps on builds with less melee dmg

[coral willow]

the 1h stuns less

[bitter turtle]

i dont really feel like maniac does a whole lot personally

[faint beacon]

His pen is 80

[bitter turtle]

except maybe on mutants

[faint beacon]

But idk

[bitter turtle]

yea

i test with 80 everything weapons

[marble mantle]

Hmmm so Cara then?

[coral willow]

mania does wonders on ragers tbh

[bitter turtle]

well

you can try it out and see what you like

[marble mantle]

I don’t have any plasteel rn anyway

[coral willow]

but if you have a gun to shoot them better off with them anyway

kek

[bitter turtle]

since that's your 2nd perk aynway

[faint beacon]

Suppose if you want to bully crushers and maulers

[marble mantle]

Nvm though I got kraks I might just do mania so I don’t get bullied by ragers

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/afham-saul-goodman-better-call-saul-bob-odenkirk-jimmy-mcgill-gif-25559831

[faint beacon]

Maniac would be better then

[bitter turtle]

with the current rager buff

i rly dont think you want to melee rager anyway

[marble mantle]

Ragers are like the #1 cause of my deaths

[bitter turtle]

outside of shocking them

[faint beacon]

Hello Saul Goodman

[bitter turtle]

which then you dont really need maniac

[coral willow]

you still get bullied, better off with lightning reflexes

also, i use maniac cause im zealot main anyway

and melee anything i see

kek

[bitter turtle]

then stop using krak nade

its pretty niche

[marble mantle]

I been tryin to do the penance

[bitter turtle]

2x shredder kills rager packs

[coral willow]

voc and frag basically removes

them

[faint beacon]

Shredders stumble em

[marble mantle]

I wanna use frags but I ain’t done with the penance yet

[bitter turtle]

ah

if i have a suggestion for that penance

dont use kraks on crusher/mauler

[faint beacon]

I’d say suffer through the Krak penance

[bitter turtle]

scab bruiser (the trash mob) count as armored enemy

so just group them up and stick a grenade on them

[faint beacon]

You can throw em at anything with Flak armor

[marble mantle]

Oh really? Neat

[faint beacon]

It sticks thankfully

[coral willow]

does a grenade crit

[faint beacon]

Any Scab type has flak and it will stick to them

[bitter turtle]

ive never seen it crit

so doubt it

[coral willow]

and then your local vet plasmas them

kek

[faint beacon]

Basically spiky armored guys are fair game for Krak kills

[bitter turtle]

that happeend to me

except it wasnt a plasma

it was an ogryn

he chucked his big nade on them

[coral willow]

just play a scab maelstrom

should work usually

[sinful jacinth]

Krak is just throw and pray they don't kill it before going off.

[coral willow]

is it a better brainburst

kekw

[sinful jacinth]

I actually think Brainburst is better.

You can burst from very far far away.

Without your team every killing it.

[faint beacon]

Me banking a Krak off a wall to hit the crusher behind a corner

That’s probably the more useful things you can do with it at least though it requires predicting

[bitter turtle]

btw

this is if you dont have melee talent or ogryn dmg

(it has superiority complex)

[bitter turtle]

so in those scenarios you'd need cara

[coral willow]

welp this looks fun

[marble mantle]

Does the saul special stagger or is that a different thing

[coral willow]

it does

[bitter turtle]

it counts as a stagger

[marble mantle]

Sweet

[coral willow]

but from my experience, it only does for half?????

like i tried with saul skullcrusher

[trim hemlock]

now that's rare

[coral willow]

does 180% damage and 100% damage at times

kek

[bitter turtle]

also

if you run cara it and you did take a bunch fo melee dmg node

its not completely useless either

opens up this option

you can open with a heavy instead of a special

h2 -> special -> h2 -> h3

[quick zinc]

what blessings have you put on the new shotgun Ironhelm ?

[bitter turtle]

manstopper both barrels

[coral willow]

its good on

vet

idk on zealot

thinking about using runngun for him,

[bitter turtle]

scattershot over manstopper might be the play for zealot

idk

[torn glen]

Zealot has a lot of movement speed, so you can afford to get in close for any close-ranged blessings to proc

[crude fiber]

fullbore might be ok with the spread reduction talent

[bitter turtle]

im iffy aobut run n gun because you cant reload while sprinting lol

[coral willow]

ye

[torn glen]

Can while you sprint slide, I think

[coral willow]

but you still get the spread reduction

[bitter turtle]

doesn tlast long enough for a non-both barrels reload

[torn glen]

Fair enough

Zealot movement speed can still allow you to reposition to a safe reload spot I suppose

[bitter turtle]

i mostly suggest scatter for zealot, who cant guarantee a crit

bc critting is basically increasing your effective range anyway

[torn glen]

You can get closer to it with Piety

[rigid pilot]

you can run the zealot talent where you get attack speed if you run out of ammo too

iirc scattershot and double barrel is preserved while you swap to melee

[coral willow]

thats nice

[faint beacon]

You probably could counter it with the Always Prepared node on Weapon Specialist but again idk

[coral willow]

runngun still seems like a good option to reduce the abysmal spread on the gun

bonus points for some reason the reticle shrinks while running even without runngun

[bitter turtle]

it might jsut be the default function on all guns since normally u cant shoot while sprinting anyway

happens even on non-run n gun guns

I never get tired of doing this

[faint beacon]

“Draw” you say as they’re still experiencing the symptom known as police brutality

[bitter turtle]

agri volver is a great pair with shockmaul tbh

revolver fixes the shitty boss dmg

[coral willow]

why? i like it on zealot but

ah right

i use it with dclaw

can deal with crushers marginally and boss is spicy

[bitter turtle]

main weakness of shock maul is low unyielding dmg

you can see how bulwarks are dealt with

[coral willow]

i put unyielding and maniac on it to counter that yea

[bitter turtle]

and obv agri volver is specialized to boss kill

[terse idol]

Defo doesn't need unyielding

[bitter turtle]

i dont think sticking unyiedling on shock maul really solves the low unyileding dmg

[terse idol]

Since it's only multiplying the already low damage

😭

[frank ether]

it doesnt

needs a bit of a boost to base unyielding

[bitter turtle]

eh

i think its alr a great weapon as is

doesnt need to kill literally everything

[terse idol]

I think it's fine as is as a pure CC weapon with like CC

[bitter turtle]

cause it already does horde really well and kill salmost everything except unyiedling really well

only thing slightly annoying is mutants since you cant shock them out of anything

and it doesnt oneshot them either

[coral willow]

from what i remember its higher than that of maniac

[severe gale]

is that indignatus or agni

[bitter turtle]

indig

[severe gale]

ah

i need 2 make one

seeing that makes me wanna make one

[bitter turtle]

but yeah

agri volver blows up bosses and is a good swap after you drop bulwark shield

[coral willow]

nvm

[bitter turtle]

pretty nice pair

[coral willow]

its the same

i think

its just good

to use maniac/unyielding

but it mught just be me cause i deal everything in melee

[bitter turtle]

the maniac dmg is probably less noticeable since you can still 1tap flamer

[coral willow]

idk ragers

[bitter turtle]

well

[coral willow]

ragers are my concern

[bitter turtle]

i tried maniac and no maniac earlier

if you shock them

maniac does nothing

at least for vet

its shock -> 2x heavy regardless

[coral willow]

idk for zealot either but

[bitter turtle]

if no shock, you save yourself a light

[coral willow]

better if you have it

[bitter turtle]

no maniac requires light Heavy light heavy

maniac requires only light heavy heavy

but ya

fanning is also pretty helpful against rager

[coral willow]

tbh

[faint beacon]

Unless it’s a solo rager

[bitter turtle]

well if its a solo then u just shock them and kill them lol

[faint beacon]

I don’t see myself getting into melee with them

[coral willow]

outside of the issue of having low ammocount for what it offers agri is a solid gun

just not zarona

[coral willow]

i do it all the time so

[bitter turtle]

its a lot better than people give it credit for

[coral willow]

yeah but it aint zarona

also 5 rnd capicity doesnt help it either

[faint beacon]

Well to be fair Zealot can handle it much easier, I tend to not run VOC often that’s usually what my issue boils down too

[coral willow]

me not trying to use voc on every build

also manstopper scattershot deadshot agri is fun

discount plasma cleave

[bitter turtle]

more than enough to kill anything that moves

[fleet thicket]

i got a a hot take guys

vrak 7

is fucking cracked

[bitter turtle]

thats not really a hot take

[rigid pilot]

im also running this build point-blank not useless anymore

[faint beacon]

Correct

[fleet thicket]

its much better than helbores

if it only had carapce

[bitter turtle]

thats also not really a hot take

[faint beacon]

Lukewarm take but still I agree

[fleet thicket]

there would be no reason

[bitter turtle]

you can kill carapace with a v7

easily

[fleet thicket]

yeah onlsaught yeah xD

[bitter turtle]

no

[faint beacon]

No with uh

[bitter turtle]

wtf

[last parcel]

onslaught v7

[rigid pilot]

not onslaught lol that will take too long

[bitter turtle]

u literally just spam shots into their head

sec

let me record

[rigid pilot]

deadshot

some crit nonsense

wala

[bitter turtle]

yea deadshot + DA

you dont need cara on the gun

[faint beacon]

Chink in their armor to truly sniper max

[fleet thicket]

wait why take deadshot vrak 7 gets surgical?

[bitter turtle]

it kills crusher better than mk1/2 helbores tbh

[bitter turtle]

because you need to hold surgical for less time then

u shouldnt be

holding surgical on purpose anyway

for super long periods

[fleet thicket]

okay deadshot + what?

weakspot damage?

[bitter turtle]

no

sec

er

yes

if you mean deadly accurate

anyway the gun can be built to 1tap gunners with no crit

[somber axle]

Helbore does Cara better and for free

[bitter turtle]

the only time you need to guarantee a crit is against flamer to 1tap

[faint beacon]

Imo get it anyways as a talent but the HHAs

[fleet thicket]

well helbore 3 yeah the other two are really ass at doing carapce damage

[faint beacon]

Are very demanding talent wise

[bitter turtle]

if you mean mk1/2, only if you juice the fuck out of it

v7 can run absolutely nothing to kill carapace and still hit 2k dps

no exec, nothing

[fleet thicket]

can you demosntrate?

[bitter turtle]

yes

sec

im fucking

[somber axle]

2HKO and potential 1HKO > 2k DPS

[bitter turtle]

getting back on

[bitter turtle]

again, you do that with extreme talent investment

[fleet thicket]

if am being honest i have been running aggripinnaa HH on my character ever since its buff i feel like it got more firerate than vrak 3

[bitter turtle]

im not saying its completely invalid

but

its not fair to compare

v7 with literally nothing

vs hb1/2 with a million talents to boost it

[somber axle]

I mean like you could do the same talent investment with the Headhunter and it can't compete

[bitter turtle]

yes it would

plush and i argued about this befor elol

[somber axle]

Kill it in 2 shots for free

[bitter turtle]

you can juice it to kill a crusher faster than you finish charging the hb

he built it that way

which i thought was a complete meme personally

but yea

[somber axle]

I'm not saying it can't be juiced, just that it isn't better than a Helbore at Cara

[fleet thicket]

how about

both of you demonstrate?

[somber axle]

I just got to work and start in 20 min but I probably have a recording around here I can search up

[bitter turtle]

if ur lucky this can happen

keep in mind this is no cara perk, nothing meant to actually kill crusher taken, besides ogryn dmg, but you take that for other reasons anyway

[rigid pilot]

just get lucky

[white minnow]

ultimate luck

[bitter turtle]

yea

on avg you're n ot getting 3.6k lul

usually like between 1.7k to 2.3k

i just found it funny it happened

[white minnow]

19 damage missing
should've built for the 4 crit BP 😔

[bitter turtle]

lel

[bitter turtle]

fwiw this is what happens if you run a similar build to your hb1/2 builds, it literally dies faster than the time it takes to charge an hb

[last parcel]

instadeleted

[somber axle]

TTK isn't nearly as different as you say LOL

[coral willow]

on vet?

[bitter turtle]

the diff is you dont need to charge each shot

[coral willow]

havent gotting that on zealot

[bitter turtle]

v7 can be extremely spammy if you want

[bitter turtle]

on vet yes

i dont think zeal can do it

[coral willow]

that sad

[bitter turtle]

its literally just BARELY

on vet

for dreg gunner

[somber axle]

The difference is also that Helbore Mk II fires shots for free with Shock Trooper too

[bitter turtle]

actually, it might be easier now

didnt they nerf dreg gunner dmg resistance or whatever

[coral willow]

i wish for zealot speciall killer gun that can use ghost

ye

[somber axle]

Meaning you can run Helbore Mk II through no ammo Mael the whole run and be fine

[rigid pilot]

is this real

how do you get 3k damage on cara

[bitter turtle]

v7 is also insanely efficient so its practically not really a factor

[last parcel]

it's juiced

[bitter turtle]

lots of finesse dmg

its not a practical thing to do

[faint beacon]

@bitter turtle surgical or DA with that HHA 7 btw

Curious what blessings was on that

[bitter turtle]

surgical

[rigid pilot]

ah 15 MF

[bitter turtle]

yea

lul

[faint beacon]

Damn that explains why mine was still doing similar shit lmao

[rigid pilot]

cheating

[bitter turtle]

i didnt stack all 3 ability buffs

so i didnt go that far

[somber axle]

The difference in ammo efficiency is a factor yeah. Headhunter Autoguns will lean more heavily on melee when the ammo begins to run orange into red halfway through the mission, Helbore Mk II is barely yellow

[bitter turtle]

i just did a build that u might actually consider

using

i just think its a meme

[bitter turtle]

v7 doesnt run yellow

or orange

before surv nerf u could go the entire game without picking up a single tin lol

now its like

maybe pick up a couple smalls

[somber axle]

Yeah? It does

[faint beacon]

If you’re using your HHA 7 on chaffe or walkers you should be skinned alive

I’m just saying

[somber axle]

Nothing can touch ammo efficiency on a Helbore tbh

[bitter turtle]

i dont disagree with that

but in a practical situation

[somber axle]

It's like a Psyker staff for Vet

[bitter turtle]

do you ACTUALLY need LITERALLY infnite ammo

like ur probably walking past tins in a lot of games

[somber axle]

Yes LOL

[bitter turtle]

unless you have 3 gungryns

next to u

all missing

[somber axle]

No ammo Mael it is pretty much one of the best weapons to run period

Even in standard matches you can run into ammo goblins and the strat there is either be faster than them or be low on ammo

Or just be Helbore

[bitter turtle]

no ammo mael is a different conversation, but if u built that v7 like that

u would be fine anyway

[somber axle]

And it doesn't matter

[bitter turtle]

with surv

as for normal matches

u cant tell me picking up like 2 smalls is "impractical"

[idle pecan]

What blessings are BiS for hellbore

[bitter turtle]

idk w/e i dont feel like arguing about this lol

[faint beacon]

Honestly I feel like you’re insane for not running a Las weapon In no ammo

[somber axle]

It's not impractical, but it is definitely a difference between the Helbores. Shock Trooper isn't just saving reserve ammo

[bitter turtle]

idk i just finished one with agri revolver

didnt really go low

[somber axle]

It delays reloads

[faint beacon]

Surv?

[somber axle]

While the HHA is reloading the Helbore Mk II is keeping up the fire

[bitter turtle]

yea ofc

[faint beacon]

Yeah it makes up for it

[bitter turtle]

if im in a pug im gonna bring surv to no ammo mael lol

i dont want ppl to think im trolling

[somber axle]

You can probably go through two full reloads before the Helbore Mk II ever hits their first tbh

[faint beacon]

Your returns are good enough with it so I can see weapons like that getting away with it

[somber axle]

The reload speed is also not negligible on the HHAs

[bitter turtle]

v7 reload is fast

[coral willow]

does puncture work for

[bitter turtle]

either way

[coral willow]

knives

[bitter turtle]

this is honestly

not even my point lol

[coral willow]

it'd be funny

[somber axle]

Plus the speed/TTK gets pretty silly on the Helbore Mk II when you get Weight of Fire IV going on a 75%+ charge rate stat

[bitter turtle]

idc what the guns do on builds specifically juiced to kill crusher

if you dont do that for hb2 especcially, the dps is really low vs crusher

meanwhile for v7 its still above 1.5k minimum

[coral willow]

hellbore surgical DA spam?

[somber axle]

DA? It doesn't have Deadly Accurate

[coral willow]

not helbore

[faint beacon]

Look I know both can

[coral willow]

headhunter kek

sry

[faint beacon]

But I love the HHA 7 Being able to instantly obliterate a gunners head in like a millisecond

[coral willow]

can you do that in zealot

i remember requiring DA crit

kek

[unkempt hedge]

Weight of Fire is top tier, as a second blessing not sure. My best roll has Surgical and I do pretty good with it

[faint beacon]

Possibly?????

I’d have to try

[bitter turtle]

fwiw

[faint beacon]

I know you need Unarmored if it’s just shy

[somber axle]

Tbh I don't even really consider it juicing that hard. It's just Exe Stance + standard build

[coral willow]

iwish zealot got a good special killer gun outside of throwing knives

[faint beacon]

To hit a Dreg BP

[somber axle]

It still picks up all the things people consider mandatory other than Voice of Command

Confirmed Kill, Iron Will, grenade regen, etc.

[bitter turtle]

this is what happens if you try to kill ccrusher hb2 with a voc build, still picked up everything else like ogryn dmg

and grab things like agile engagement and 10% melee

[somber axle]

This is a weird comparison

[torn gorge]

[bitter turtle]

its not a weird comparison bc thats the exact tree i use for v7

minus agile engagement, but i put those pts into non-dmg talents

[somber axle]

To show Helbore with a suboptimal build and to show Headhunter Mk VII with Exe Stance juice LOL

[bitter turtle]

like demo team

i did not

scroll up before that sneaky

i showed v7 with this same tree lol

to do 2k dps

[somber axle]

henlo

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

here

lol

[somber axle]

Yeah and Mk II Helbore gets even funnier imo

[bitter turtle]

look

you can enjoy your hb2, im not trying to stop you from that lol

this whole thing started bc im telling someone who wants to play v7 specifically

[short vapor]

Out of curiosity, did you test this yourself? Testing from myself and a few others is showing just normal damage falloff and damage_near/damage_far interactions.

[bitter turtle]

that you dont need to pick up +cara to deal relatively high dps to a crusher on v7

you dont need to pick up anything actually

besides deadshot and deadly accurate on the gun (both of which you take either way regardless, for non-crusher reasons)

we werent talking about "but what if we're running an exec build with ability buffs" and etc

he was surprised and wanted to know exactly how v7 does high dps to a crusher without needing any specific anti-cara boosts

[faint beacon]

Damn positive an Exec HHA7 Would drop a crusher pathetically easy

[somber axle]

Helbore Mk II has tighter breakpoints for Dreg Gunner and Flamer so if you run Voice of Command you need Agile Engagement or you have to run Unarmoured perk and Maniac perk, and that locks you out of Carapace for Crusher hunting. And that's sorta the standard for Helbore Mk II with Voice of Command. If you run Exe Stance you comfortably hit both breakpoints and can bring Crusher killing down to 2HKO and 3HKO range (and even a funny 1HKO if you happen to pick up a combat stim during a mission) which gets even sillier when you consider the ammo economy is infinite through Surgical + Shock Trooper (even without Deadshot) but the ammo efficiency becomes insane with Deadshot and Surv Aura on top

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[somber axle]

It is much more build dependent than the HHA7

[bitter turtle]

that is my point from the beginning

lol

thats why i explained the context earlier

the whole point of the convo i was having with the other guy is about killing crushers in a build not built to counter crusher

[torn gorge]

outside cara if you want more relaxed breakpoint on helbore you run mk1 ofc

but then you have pitiful carapace damage

[bitter turtle]

goddamn

+10% elite on v7 instead of unarmored

is literally 50 dmg off from dreg gunner after their nerf

[idle pecan]

Is hellbore viable in auric?

[bitter turtle]

so close

[bitter turtle]

literally everything is viable in auric

in anything

ppl beat auric mael solo before

you have 3 other people

you can make it work

[idle pecan]

Idk bro. Some people are so stupid

And I'm not goated enough to carry people

[bitter turtle]

well

u asked viable

[rigid pilot]

having 3 other people to split the work with*, if all 4 are tunneling on 1 mauler it isnt really a four player team

[bitter turtle]

i dont know how goated you are or arent

but any gun and melee works if you have the skill to back it up

tbh

[idle pecan]

Valid

[bitter turtle]

70% of your success in the game is not related to your loadout

its knowing how to position, melee dance, and lesser so aiming since a lot of guns are generous about it

[idle pecan]

Ciagv eliminates the need to aim

[rigid pilot]

if you play rangy shooty helbores you will want to try and stay just behind but also not too far behind to get backstabbed by the patrols that just spawn out of thin air

[idle pecan]

Just shreds

[bitter turtle]

a lot of guns

remove the need to aim

revolve rhas planet sized bullets

plasma too

not even just op guns

brauto dont need aim

[mental cloud]

You can make a 503 laspistol work honestly. It’s kinds just what ever you want

It’s more about optimal

[idle pecan]

What gun has the highest base magazine

[mental cloud]

To me any ways.

[bitter turtle]

i would say double shotty doestn need aim

[idle pecan]

More boolet

[rigid pilot]

recon 6d but i wont really recommend it

[bitter turtle]

but a shocking number of ppl cant get mauler oneshot

[last parcel]

recon VId has 200 shots

[bitter turtle]

so maybe it does need aim

[somber axle]

Yeah and while people can juice HHA7 they don't. But as a clown I do run Helbore Mk II and I can commonly outshoot HHA Vets with it especially when it comes to armour

[idle pecan]

Oh I love the recon

It fries

[bitter turtle]

do you mean

just the literal number itself

[idle pecan]

No, highest amount of actual shots you can fire

[somber axle]

I've run Shredder Autopistol in Aurics LOL
You can really play any weapon you want there tbh

Just don't do that in no ammo Mael

[rigid pilot]

i havent touched SAPs in awhile, weapon spec SAP struggle build

[bitter turtle]

are you defining that by the number of bullets or how long you can shoot without reloading

while holding left click down

[idle pecan]

The second ig

[somber axle]

I mean I don't think any other gun can do either better than Recons tbh

[idle pecan]

I want unlimited power ammo

[bitter turtle]

probably mg4 with deadshot+shocktrooper

[somber axle]

What can shoot as many shots as a Recon Mk VId?

[idle pecan]

Mg4?

[bitter turtle]

i think mg4 will last longer than recon 6d if we're talking about just holding down left click

until reload

[bitter turtle]

ilas

[last parcel]

kantrael mg iv infantry lasgun

[idle pecan]

Oh ok

[bitter turtle]

cause it will keep deadshot active longer than 6d

just run +9 stam curio like sneaky does for 6d and you can probably literally just hold down left click for an entire map

[wicked epoch]

chaps is this a good one

[bitter turtle]

well

uh

no

sorry LOL

[bitter turtle]

iags are good enough to just run whatever though

you're new right?

so that should be fine

[wicked epoch]

yes

[bitter turtle]

@ graia

[wicked epoch]

this is my bolter build

my bae

my honeybun

my pookie bear

[bitter turtle]

you probably want pinning fire instead of gloryhunter but

dont bother like

minmaxing yet

you dont get good weapons until you hit level cap

[idle pecan]

Your pookie needs gloryhunter

[wicked epoch]

my pookie does have gloryhunter

[bitter turtle]

so just try whatever for now

[wicked epoch]

my pookie wookie dookie is so adorable

[rigid pilot]

reach level 30 before you start the ⛏️

[bitter turtle]

and see what guns you like

then you get on the gear treadmill

[wicked epoch]

is it weird to be this inlove with a bolter

[idle pecan]

Crafting system in this game is dog, having a system that shouldn't be interacted with until lvl 30 is awful

[mental cloud]

Dang ole pookie man

[somber axle]

At that point I think, as funny as it is to bring up again, Helbore Mk II takes the crown for weapon that can fire infinitely before reloading

[idle pecan]

Mfw revolver does more damage then bolter

[sinful palm]

Average auric gun

[somber axle]

If we talk number of shots in a window? Recons

If we talk number of shots before reload? Helbore

Mk IV Infantry Lasgun is a good contender though

Still does solid in both categories

[bitter turtle]

i only hesitated to say hb bc he sounded like he wanted lots of boolet

so it was either recon 6d or mg4

depending on how you measure it

[somber axle]

Lots of shots definitely goes to Recon for sure

If you want the DAKKA you need a weapon that sprays

Infantry Lasguns are not spray weapons, even if the Mk IV feels like it sometimes

[bitter turtle]

mg4 is definitely a more spray type weapon

[somber axle]

Plus I don't know if any weapon can be as funny as Recon Mk VId Weapon Specialist Celerity stim for sheer volume of fire in a reload window

[bitter turtle]

its on eof the weapons i would suggest grabbing full auto mod or your fingers will get tired

that and laspistol

[somber axle]

That is just THE king of fast firing

[wicked epoch]

I wish i could get an extended mag on my pookie

30 round box would make me so happy

[rigid pilot]

bolter mag buff 🙏

[wicked epoch]

aye id agree

not for balance sake nay

[rigid pilot]

or a new mark that has bigger magazine but even worse handling

[wicked epoch]

I’d agree

If a catachan can carry a heavy bolter

[bitter turtle]

ppl apparently are already missing with this one

[wicked epoch]

why cant i

[somber axle]

I'd love a version of the Braced Autoguns that feels more like the Recon Mk VId

[bitter turtle]

[wicked epoch]

they karkin suck

[bitter turtle]

idk about even worse handling for them

[somber axle]

Boltpistol with a worse handling version and candle in front of the sights only

[wicked epoch]

Listen if bragg can do this

Why cant I have a bolter with a tommy gun drum mag?

[wicked epoch]

Black templars ahh weapon

[rigid pilot]

because janitors cant have cool toys

[somber axle]

She's beautiful

[wicked epoch]

Tell me thy secrets

Does the normal bolter have it?

[bitter turtle]

no

thats a bpistol skin

[last parcel]

the secret is credit card + bolt pistol

[wicked epoch]

Thats it im getting a bolt pistol

first im gonna grind the 350k veteran skin

Because haha green cadian

[bitter turtle]

its not a free skin

[wicked epoch]

what.

[bitter turtle]

its a 💸 skin

💳

[wicked epoch]

CURSE YOU HALLOWETTE

[bitter turtle]

💰

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/memes-gif-3443622631164513128

[rigid pilot]

do we not have 🦅 aquila emote

too toxic

[wicked epoch]

how

[idle pecan]

Give Lazer minigun pls

Actual rotary barrel minigun

[wicked epoch]

New vegas has a mod for that

[rigid pilot]

i rarely see miniguns in 40k

[wicked epoch]

I wonder if guard has lightning claws

or lightning claw adjacent weapons

[tall torrent]

Not in this game

[bitter turtle]

you got a poop shovel and a defective power sword that turns itself off every few seconds

enjoy

[rigid pilot]

an uncanny poopshovel

[tall torrent]

The strongest melee weapons for humanity in the grimdark far future are a hatchet and a fruit knife

[shell mason]

Which recon lasgun did they buff, I can't find the patch notes...

[bitter turtle]

why doesnt the imperium just give all space marines knives? Are they stupid?

[bitter turtle]

all 3

[tall torrent]

If they had Rashad instead of Cadia pattern chainswords, Cadia wouldn’t have fell

[last parcel]

they all dumped first target

[mental cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/uncle-buck-blasphemy-blasphemer-john-candy-lunacy-gif-16390534

[bitter turtle]

smh i bet all their chainswords were rev it up/bloodthirsty

and all they did was do rev attac ks

noobs

[tall torrent]

They had pre-buff Mk13g chainswords

[last parcel]

just had to call me out like that huh

[faint beacon]

Savage sweep + Rampage pre buff 13gs

[tall torrent]

u playing today?

[pallid jetty]

why... fucking why

[faint beacon]

At work but I’ll be on later today

[tall torrent]

ok

[coral willow]

kek

[coral willow]

they do but it looks more like heavy swords to me kek

[stiff vector]

Idk but the VIIa is my fav. Slower ROF but higher damage means its more efficient per bullet (even if it takes 2 ammo per shot) and can kill most human enemies in a few shots.

[coral willow]

current most efficient firearm on recon lineup is mk2 i think

[somber axle]

Page 1 Secrets of the Machine God just under crosshair rework

There's a bit more info but I am on mobile so I can't screenshot it very well

This is all the relevant info though

[somber axle]

The other writing is an explanation by the devs for the changes

[stiff vector]

I donr like the mk 2, just doesnt feel right to keep when testing it

[somber axle]

DPS/TTK (single target)
Mk II > Mk VIIa > MK VId

DPS/TTK (multi target)
Mk VIIa > Mk VId > Mk II

DPS/TTK (carapace)
Mk VId > Mk VIIa > Mk II

Ammo Efficiency
Mk II > Mk VIIa > Mk VId

Recon Mk VIIa: 50-54 shots (2 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk II: 100-108 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk VId: 160-180 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 160-180 ammo per clip)

Recon Mk VId has the highest rate of fire, Recon Mk VIIa has a cleave value of 3 on each shot. To explain the cleave it means it can shoot 2 poxwalkers down (each has a hit mass of 1.2) so the first shot will penetrate it and strike the target behind it too. This is extra helpful for cleaving through hordes to hit a Rager in the middle of them

Best blessings for all Recon variants are Headhunter and Dum Dum. Infernus is an ok sidegrade for specifically the Recon Mk VId. Less DPS up close, more DPS at long range. You want Flak/Maniac for perks unless you want Recon Mk VId Onslaught Crusher melt time. Then Carapace is an ok perk for the Recon Mk VId. Do not use Onslaught with the other two variants ever

Mk II is the most ammo efficiency and the rate of fire puts it slightly ahead on single target DPS compared to the Mk VIIa but the DPS difference is minor. 200-400ish DPS depending on your target and your talent set up

TTK sees very little change

[coral willow]

isnt the dps normalized again?

[somber axle]

You can kinda play with which ever you want

[coral willow]

like laspistols

[somber axle]

I am on 5 hours of sleep so this is going over my head but like

ADM vs Maniac was improved across the board

If that's what you meant

[coral willow]

no

[somber axle]

Unyielding/Flak were also brought in line with the Recon Mk VId ADMs afaik?

[coral willow]

they swapped mk6's unique "infantry lasgun" type of adm where it deals more damage on longer ranges down to like autoguns

[somber axle]

I have no idea what you are talking about tbh

To my awareness they have not changed damage falloff at any range for the Recon Mk VId

[coral willow]

nvm that was mk2

or something

[stiff vector]

Huh interesting. Maybe i just buikt my mk2 wrong cuz it felt like it had a lower TTK tgan my mk VIIa

[coral willow]

lemme check

[somber axle]

The only guns to have changes at certain ranges are the Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa getting their ADMs vs Flak/Unyielding dropped to 0.5 at Near range

[stiff vector]

ADM?

[wicked epoch]

Im lvl 25 whens the next cutscene

[somber axle]

It has a higher rate of fire so consistent head tracking will edge out the Mk VIIa on single target DPS

Mk VIIa does better multi target because of the cleave

[stiff vector]

Ah i mostly body shot when at CQC

[last parcel]

armor damage modifier

how much dmg it does to specific armor types

[coral willow]

nvm me daydreaming kek

[simple jay]

i suck at aiming but need the like 70% + no ammo, which gun should i use?

[somber axle]

As goofy as this sounds I think the Recon Mk VId is the best weapon for bodyshots when paired with Onslaught

Just also the most thirsty

[stiff vector]

Onslaught?

[somber axle]

The Recons really want you to keep crosshairs on heads for Headhunter + Shock Trooper synergy

[wicked epoch]

How do i use a bayonet when my bolter has a flashlight?

[last parcel]

it’s 90% if you’re talking about the make every shot count penance. probably use zarona revolver or plasma since they have a more generous hitbox

[stiff vector]

True. I just have a harder tume due to iron sights.

[somber axle]

Talent above Weapon Specialist keystone bottom right tree. 2.5% Brittleness per stack, 1 stack per shot, cap 16 stacks for a total 40% brittleness on target

Very strong for the Recon Mk VId because of the crazy fire rate

[last parcel]

cry

[somber axle]

Not good for the Recon Mk II or Recon Mk VIIa

[simple jay]

thought the plas was one of the better options, thanks. Forgot it was 90... ouch.

[wicked epoch]

So i choose one or the other?

[somber axle]

Onslaught lets the Recon Mk VId most comfortably melt Crushers

[stiff vector]

I feel like everything i thiught i knew is wrong.

[stiff vector]

Really?

[somber axle]

Yeah

[mental cloud]

Can confirm

[somber axle]

Rending Strikes + Onslaught gives the Recon Mk VId best DPS/TTK on Crushers

For the Recon family

[last parcel]

if you build your talent tree to do so

[wicked epoch]

So if i have a flashlight I cant use the bayonet thenv

[stiff vector]

Hiw tf

[somber axle]

Keep in mind that you need minimum 4 talent points spent down right side to get Onslaught so it can be a steep talent tax. The bright side is that there are a LOT of really good talents in that corner anyway

[last parcel]

i’m assuming you’re talking about the weapon customization mod
if so, then yes

[wicked epoch]

Aye, thanks

[last parcel]

and your bolter bayonet is still the stock bash

[wicked epoch]

so it does no damage?

no added damage that is

[stiff vector]

Dam i need to try this out wgen i get home. Is there a guide fir recon lasguns ya can link?

[wicked epoch]

so its literally useless ..

[last parcel]

it’s a cosmetic mod

not a cheat mod

[wicked epoch]

Dang

fair enough

[mental cloud]

Onslaught, dum dum and headhunter. Infernus is A good blessing as well.

[stiff vector]

And the damage boost blessings?

I alsways add flak and manuacs

[mental cloud]

And I think for the empower plays a part. I’d have to look at it when I get home.

Same here

[last parcel]

to clarify, those are perks

[stiff vector]

Forgot the name for it

[stiff vector]

Ok ill try it out

[mental cloud]

The old hellgun at home. Inspiration came from @somber axle

[stiff vector]

I wish we got hotshot lasguns. And kasrkin or full scion armor

[mental cloud]

Yeah there’s been some good enough skins from commodore but it we need a true dedicated kasrkin skin.

And hotshot for sure

I’d take what the gunners use honestly.

[stiff vector]

Gunners one would be cool as well. A dedicated volley gun thats a lasgun version if braces autoguns. But maybe with a single large ammo count but a cooling mechanuc smto stop you ftom firing non stop

[mental cloud]

Man you ain’t lying.

[tall torrent]

didn't they add one very recently

[mental cloud]

It’s still there I think. It’s about to go next week.

[tall torrent]

that one is a pretty dedicated kasrkin skin

[quick zinc]

do you need flak or is crit better for that vld?

[mental cloud]

My big gripe is that it looks like dude forgot to put on his other leg armor.

[tall torrent]

there was a cadian armor before that had armor on both legs

[mental cloud]

Nah onslaught takes care of that.

[mental cloud]

I missed it and I don’t wanna talk about it 😭😭 I started playing back in May so I’m relatively new to the game

[tall torrent]

[tall torrent]

Flak is better

Onslaught is not necessary

[mental cloud]

I feel like flak and maniac are safe bets

[stiff vector]

Flak fir gunners and general firearm armed enemies, and scab ragers, and naniac for ragers and mutants

[gaunt hinge]

brrr

[frank basin]

hotshot volley

[mental cloud]

THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT BUBBA.

[frank basin]

https://www.joytoy.com/

[tall torrent]

We’re more likely to get longlas before hotshot volley

[gaunt hinge]

the longlas and melta are lost in a warpstorm

[tall torrent]

they mentioned longlas in their newest short story so

[faint beacon]

For the Drip could help you out till you get those items

[mental cloud]

I’m on console. Is that a mod?

[frank basin]

any volley gun?

[frank basin]

yes

[mental cloud]

360 no scope.

[tall torrent]

no

[wicked epoch]

how does for the drip even work

[tall torrent]

the newest short story mentions a marksman specialist reject with a longlas

[frank basin]

mod download

[wicked epoch]

Just like any orher?

Does ir cause anything like a crash

[frank basin]

it may crash some way

[wicked epoch]

what can i do with it

[frank basin]

if is crash, you can ask the mod server for issue

[wicked epoch]

oh i mean what can i di cosmetics wise

[mental cloud]

You got a lot questions.. you a cop?!?

[wicked epoch]

Thats so different from ingame

[wicked epoch]

fuck

they got me

[frank basin]

you only see cosmetic on yourself

other can't see it

[wicked epoch]

how in depth can i get

[frank basin]

much like weapon customization mod

is not that deep

is just customized your skin

[wicked epoch]

what can it look like

[frank basin]

but 90% you play first person

[wicked epoch]

whos ypur dealer

[mental cloud]

I KNEW IT

[frank basin]

what the hell going on?

[wicked epoch]

How much for a kilo

[frank basin]

what kilo?

[wicked epoch]

the good stuff

[frank basin]

500 kg tnt bomb?

[mental cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/sheev-palpatine-emperor-chancellor-kill-him-now-gif-14424446

[wicked epoch]

the stims man

the STIMS

[frank basin]

⬆️ ⬇️ ➡️ ➡️ ➡️

[mental cloud]

I’m here for the autistic vet chat

[frank basin]

i am the autistic

[wicked epoch]

I was trying to install ogryn farts

[mental cloud]

Ogryn farts are a hell of a stim.

[wicked epoch]

tell me how much a kilo

I find it funny one of the missions is just us stealing the stims

like we’re the DEA

[faint beacon]

Unfortunately yes, so scratch that

[mental cloud]

🤣🤣 throw on the enforcer skin and carry a revolver and shock mail. Space Wild West drug bust.

[wicked epoch]

You wanna hop on and do that?

[frank basin]

name yourself "DEA agent"

[wicked epoch]

ogryn DEA agent

oh shit its 2:38am

[mental cloud]

Dude hell yes. I’m at work right now though. lol

[wicked epoch]

maybe by tomorrow then

as you see this game has augmented my sleep schedule

why stay up until 4 in the morning talking to someone when you can purge the ‘eretics?

(i am lonely)

ogryn farts fill the void

[mental cloud]

🤣🤣 dm me a friend code I’ll add ya.

[wicked epoch]

fuck my pc’s off

my user here is my fatshark code

So maybe by tomorrow we’d be fine or so

[mental cloud]

Ight bet. I’ll add ya when I get home.

[wicked epoch]

Gotcha

[ivory canopy]

For the DB shotgun what blessing should you get if you are just switching to it to fire 1 shot and then stowing it?

[mental cloud]

Sounds like the weapon specialist node always prepared.

[faint beacon]

It is

[mental cloud]

And the DB with weapon spec is op.

*not op but fun. I don’t want to get yelled at.

[spice wadi]

Yarp

U best watch urself

Pop pop

[mental cloud]

Deeply sorry commissar I meant nothin by it. Honest.

[tall torrent]

Manstopper + both barrels

Both barrels allows u to do the brace shot a lot more often

And manstopper boosts ur anti-elite power significantly

[ivory canopy]

not sure both barrels would work for me I am using the Auto reload from that one keystone

[tall torrent]

That sub node reloads 1 shot at a time

Even at 10 stacks

So it’s nice for popping 1 shots out

But the brace fire mode is significantly higher dmg than firing single shots

It’s roughly 2.5x dmg if all pellets hit

And brace fire is what gets the best breakpoints

[civic knot]

Does finesse = weakspot dmg? I feel like ive heard these are treates as 2 different stats?

[tall torrent]

Not quite the same thing

Finesse is both weakspot & Crit

They do use the same calculation

[civic knot]

So what, calculated as a component? rather than a multiplier on the total dmg value (disregarding other perks)?

[white minnow]

+50% finesse damage = +50% weakspot damage, +50% crit damage, and +50% crit weakspot damage

this is in contrast to having +weakspot and +crit damage separately

e.g., duellist, where the +50% weakspot and +50% crit damage combine on a crit weakspot to give +100% crit weakspot damage

[shadow dagger]

is bettermelk still worth using or does the baked-in melk bits the vanilla game has make it redundant

[willow siren]

melk tempting me for the level 4

[grim widget]

melk will take by force what he is not granted through seduction

just fyi dude

[shadow dagger]

what was the level of character to grab the funny t2 blessings again

20ish?

[livid lion]

Does the overwatch cheese still work?

Like kill yourself and let your team finish the mission without you?

[marble mantle]

GLORY TO THE EMPEROR! Thank god brunt had manstopper 2 in the shop

[shadow dagger]

i dont remember on overwatch being difficult enough to justify cheesing

but i have no idea if that cheese would work or not

[livid lion]

I ain’t good and people have said, you can take toughness damage but not health. 3x I cleared a mission with only toughness damage and nope. No penance

Well I’ll be updating all of you when I finish this one

[stiff vector]

They say VoC is meta but executioners stance highlighting all gunners and ranged enemies just makes me happy

[marble mantle]

Exe stance fucks

[midnight raptor]

overwatch is the 90% accuracy one right?

or is it the take no melee damage one

[lunar palm]

the penance or perk

[midnight raptor]

i was doing a few missions yesterday just dropping a smoke bomb at my feet, popping executioners and just feeling cool because im sitting there blasting away at shooters that cant even see me

[midnight raptor]

penance

[lunar palm]

its not called overwatch i dont think

[livid lion]

Don’t take damage

Not the accuracy

[austere mica]

Just tried a mkviia recon and holy shit can it do everything

Specials, horde, elites, even carapace

Never went below 50% ammo too

[shadow dagger]

accuracy penance is called like

make every shot count

[stiff vector]

I would do that but wiping hordes with frags is just to good in an energency

[shadow dagger]

who knew penance names would relate to the thing you need to do

[stiff vector]

Ye i like the Mk VIIa recon

[willow siren]

wiat, make every shot count is 90% now?

[austere mica]

I think it was before penance update

[shadow dagger]

yeah it was 90% before we got a dedicated human vendor for penances

[austere mica]

I have a build that could do it but I’m too conservative with ammo

[shadow dagger]

back when it was just a skull on a pedestal

im pretty sure you could do it in a single run with nothing but zarona and a bit of brainpower

[austere mica]

Also shotguns

[stiff vector]

Just run a ahotgun and never pick uo ammo

[austere mica]

Yeah it’s a lawb clear build

I think the best map is still the one that ends in the train yard where it’s just a defend objective

[willow siren]

found a pic of it

was a 100%

[austere mica]

Because it has a monster at the end

[livid lion]

Yes the cheese works

My team revived me at the end after they cleared the horde. You will have a little damage when revived but one of my teamates applied a health stim and placed me at full health

[shadow dagger]

well you didnt physically take damage

so it all checks out

[livid lion]

Yeah just so the community knows

[last parcel]

the only thing it does now is show your progress on the character select screen

oh discord just threw me to a message from the past

[marble mantle]

Maniac, unyielding or carapace?

[slow spade]

I'd go Unyielding

though if you got some rending, you could just swap to carapace if you want

thank god Fatshark lets you swap at any point

[marble mantle]

True yeah

[dire olive]

beby

Emperor's gift not nurgle poo?

[grim widget]

@dire olivediamonds

literally diamonds

[coral imp]

This any good?

[junior needle]

13g needs wrath, swap out SS for it

[junior needle]

Yes, the pen stat dump will have minimal effect due to uncanny. Keep uncanny and carapace, change the others to your liking.

[austere mica]

(to your liking does not include Lacerate)

[arctic rampart]

Don't listen to him, Hadron loves Lacerate

If the emp didn't want you to have Lacerate, why's it on all those knives

[serene bough]

what mod helps to vendor trash easier

[midnight totem]

two nice trash revolvers from brunt

one of them turned out to me a potential new best sidearm for my vet

surgical, and glory hunter 4, with max manic and unarmored

not using handcannnon

[civic knot]

Did they fix the aura "close and kill" causing serverside instability/freezing/audio cutting?

[willow talon]

Praise the Emperor

[last parcel]

[iron marten]

ye

[marble mantle]

I’m almost done with all the vet penances

Only one I’m really dreading is the one for MF

[civic knot]

Source?

[marble mantle]

2500 at 10 stacks is crazy

[terse idol]

Hmm why unyielding?

[civic knot]

cause i still have aids freezing and audio cutting out all the time

[iron marten]

I run Close and Kill, and I'm fine

[terse idol]

Thr shock maul as far as I've learned has a pretty bad unyielding modifier to begin with

[iron marten]

the only thing I had with Close and Kill was it actually just straight up crashing the server when the new patch dropped

otherwise, I'm fine

[marble mantle]

How is this looking so far? Is carapace any good for it, or are both of the perks duds?

[terse idol]

Cara is good

[marble mantle]

Oh okay sweet

[terse idol]

Looking good so far

[marble mantle]

Bet

[tall torrent]

Yes

[marble mantle]

I’ll switch off SE for either flak or elites, what y’all think?

[terse idol]

*I mean frankly you just need to swap sprint efficiency for +Elites,

[tall torrent]

Both perks are duds

[terse idol]

For +Elites

[tall torrent]

Ideally u want elite + flak

[marble mantle]

Oh dang Cara is a dud?

Yeah I know I got the pic

[terse idol]

I thought Cara was okay 😭

[tall torrent]

Carapace doesn’t matter very much for plasma

[tall torrent]

It’s like

[marble mantle]

Yeah fair I figured

[tall torrent]

3rd best pick?

But it doesn’t change anything for plasma rly

[terse idol]

It's not the worst but ywah

[tall torrent]

Elite > flak > maniac > carapace

[iron marten]

is maniac fine for plasma, or flamers aren't that much of an issue with it

Ah

[marble mantle]

I’ll level it to 4 just in case I get a based final blessing of glory or blaze

[tall torrent]

Maniac helps, but it’s not as valuable as flak

Elite is most important

Maniac allows u to 1 bodyshot flamers

[marble mantle]

I’ll change SE to elites rn anyway

[terse idol]

Is taking +flak and +elite for Scab gunner bp?

[tall torrent]

Elite is for Dreg gunner 1HS

Flak helps a ton of things

[terse idol]

Oh yah

My brain

[junior needle]

[tall torrent]

Reaper 2 shot consistency (1HS + 1 chest)
Mauler 2 bodyshot if 1 crit
Scab gunner 1 bodyshot
Dreg Gunner 1 chest shot (needs longshot/agile engagement)

[junior needle]

Should've put crit damage on it

[tall torrent]

And u can 1 shot scab rager if u have agile engagement up

Or enough focus target stacks

Rager breakpoints are less relevant tho

Flak also guarantees 1 bodyshot both shotgunners

Anyways

Guess that flamer buff did do something

10 tins + 7 bags

Emperor’s hungriest believer

Earlier we had an Ogryn who took 15 tins + 2 tags

He wasn’t even Gunlugger

He was playing bull rush with pickaxe + ripper

[somber axle]

Ammo goblins