veteran-class

[faint beacon]

Can we make snipers funnier by making them have perfect tracking till they prepare to fire

[somber axle]

The last thing the Sniper ever sees is the flash of lasfire in their eyes

[willow siren]

i wish we had flashbangs

[somber axle]

This would be SO funny and make people panic LMFAO

[faint beacon]

I mean we “do”

[willow siren]

in every game that has them i run them exclusively

[somber axle]

Zealots do I guess

Kinda

[willow siren]

vet doesnt and zealot is jsut bad ogryn

[faint beacon]

Look I want it just cause imagine rounding a corner and just immediately seeing like 2 lasers instantly snap onto you

[somber axle]

My Zealot Clarisse has a funny accent though!

I miss her

I miss my Zealot and my Psyker

I love staring at my Ogryn but aside from "PROTECT THE LIL UNS" memes with Tauntgryn (Shield + Skullcrusher and Taunt is so powerful for team support) I don't tend to like Ogryn otherwise

Maybe I should try Tauntgryn memes more

[somber axle]

Sniper Gauntlet would be AMAZING LMFAO

[faint beacon]

7 lasers instantly snapping onto the psyker only to hear BZZT BZZT BZZT BOOM BOOM BOOM followed with them instantly going down lmao

[willow siren]

taunt is the best ability on ogryn imo, it aint fancy, but the pwoer it has to turn a fight is unmatched

[somber axle]

Also I remember watching a vid that explained shield special is for dodge sliding safely toward gun lines without losing stamina when you stop and have to put your shield up before the next slide. I do not stand and plant the shield then afk while the team fights around me

[uncut pebble]

All you hear is the Tom's scream from Tom and Jerry when someone gets absolutely flatlined by 7 snipers.

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/gustavo-fring-gus-gustavo-fring-breaking-bad-gif-25742271

[somber axle]

I hear the little flatline sound from Half Life/GMOD in my brain

[willow siren]

windows 94 shutdown sound

[uncut pebble]

Shield special is for me to cower in a corner because chaos spawns are hard to fight.

[faint beacon]

Gmod rag doll physics sfx when their body slumps to the floor

[coral willow]

sniper gauntlet already seems 10 laser zooming onto the ogryn

[somber axle]

I 100% agree and I wish more Tauntgryns existed because I love them. The only class I love seeing more than a Tauntgryn is a Thammer Zealot. The true angels of death. Literally any and every time I see a Thammer Zealot they get pissed at the Daemonhost and kill it solo LMFAO

[coral willow]

thammer zealot, the true hit or miss

either they kill the DH

or they die

[willow siren]

funniest thing about shield, at one point it stopped you from tasking damage from the bullet of a sniper, but not the passthrough, so someone behind the ogryn could get assblasted by 4 snipers they never saw

[faint beacon]

Realizing once I’m home in 45 mins I gotta cook up a Stripped down GIAG and rework my HHA build to have tinkerer smokes

[willow siren]

le bonk

[somber axle]

I fell in love with the Thammer Zealot who saved me when I was a new clown to this game. They sprinted out of the darkness when I accidentally aggro'd a Daemonhost and killed it so fast I didn't have time to even register it was dead at first because I was still panicking that I aggro'd the Daemonhost

[coral willow]

i run

[faint beacon]

I use Tauntgryn Pickaxe and literally only focus horde clear

[coral willow]

marty fotf

so i cant oneshot them

at most 2shot

[faint beacon]

I’m still working on finishing it up

[willow siren]

i cant vibe with picks,

[coral willow]

at least get myself killed cause i wiffed

kek

[willow siren]

i want to like them

[faint beacon]

They’re so damn fun

[willow siren]

but i hate the moveset

[coral willow]

i wonder if pick ogryn can do sililar on a DH

[faint beacon]

They have like shield level of stamina right

[tall torrent]

What

[faint beacon]

Just they have long recovery wind ups

[coral willow]

i like getting relic to the new map and then TPing the DH and make him to death

[coral willow]

also zealot is probably the better ogryn

[willow siren]

vet doesnt have flashbangs and im sad

[coral willow]

well unless shields

[tall torrent]

I mean, how is zealot “bad ogryn”

[coral willow]

imho its the opposite due to how slow and clunky the character is

[junior needle]

The time has come

[somber axle]

Maybe they mean Ogryn has the better sustain in fights? More HP, near instant toughness regen to full on heavy swings, etc.

[coral willow]

when can i raise her

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/shoebill-bird-rain-beautiful-gif-18429868

[willow siren]

bc i universally hate zealots and the people that play them, therefore bad. excepts hammer zealots, i like them alot

[somber axle]

This is the only time I am grateful to be at work instead of at home gaming LMFAO

I am not home

[willow siren]

no i just hate zealot

[coral willow]

see this is why players abused the crit cdr node to actually replenish toughness to them cause zealot suprisingly misses lot of good toughness regen nodes(well except second wind)

[faint beacon]

We played two nights ago, I semi butchered my sleep schedule to actually play a match with sneaky lmao

[somber axle]

I have date night with the S.O. planned for Thursday evening but I will be home earlier tomorrow so if you want to play some games and get the THING out of the way I will be around tomorrow evening

[coral willow]

still quite salty about them not balancing the 2h weaponry and 1h weapory cooldown reduction rate with it, but its decent nerf at least

[uncut pebble]

I am a zealout main but hammer is my least used build.

[coral willow]

hammer is the funnest zealot build i can imagine tbh

[somber axle]

I'm also off Saturday LOL

[faint beacon]

If you two are playing Thursday I’ll probably tag along

[uncut pebble]

It's really not.

[somber axle]

I have no idea what works for your schedule

[uncut pebble]

It's... hard to say really.

[coral willow]

it is, seeing a DH get flung over and flop on the ground

[uncut pebble]

My damage is so obscene that I never have to draw my gun.

[junior needle]

I should be free most evenings

[coral willow]

is a great expereince

[uncut pebble]

I literally only pull my gun if I have to dispatch a sniper.

[coral willow]

using a thammer also teaches you the experience of not challenging 3 ragers into a melee fight

and se a brauto

[faint beacon]

Realizing I’m off the same days you are as well the few days I’m off I’m usually free

Usually

[somber axle]

Loner Knife Zealots have only two kinds: unkillable rat man skulking the shadows at lightning speeds halfway across the map soloing elites and specials and hordes you will never see, and the one pretending to be a rat who will inevitably die when he is netted/pounced halfway across the map while everyone is too far to even consider reaching him

[coral willow]

im quite sad that idk how to use this really

[faint beacon]

Am I the only Tough DR knife zealot player

[coral willow]

you arent alone

[somber axle]

My schedule changes week to week tbh depending on what events are on going. This week is Thursday/Saturday but sometimes I get Friday/Saturday off

[coral willow]

probably

[somber axle]

The only one I know of yeah

[faint beacon]

Like I act as a Loner where I’ll run off ahead to kill annoying specials and then return to the team

[last parcel]

no

that would be your mother

[willow siren]

i hate both bc i believe in teamwork

[coral willow]

and there are the 3rd variant which is swapping between the two constantly, like he'd solo clear a room when it was clearly a team wipe and rescues a guy and then immediately dogged on the next room

[somber axle]

Teamwork makes the meme work

[faint beacon]

Like think of it as annoying thing ahead? Shroud field wipe them out

Return back to team

[willow siren]

wihtout memes we have nothing

[pseudo fiber]

I like these guys they're human we all blunder.

I get trappered more than I like to admit.

also shockmaul persk and stuff because I got these and I am thinking flak but wanna check

[somber axle]

I think that's just the latter kind. The latter kind has witnessed the rat gods playing Loner Knife Zealot and are practicing to become rat gods themselves. They will one day become uncatchable, unkillable forces of nature from the shadows but until then they make for a good laugh when they spam ping the hound or trapper that caught them LMFAO

[coral willow]

good roll, idk about flak since it deals 107% damage to flak

[bitter turtle]

you like zealots using the worst zealot melee? 🤔

[coral willow]

oh the rat gods sometimes dies

funniest shit ever

[pseudo fiber]

It's not perfect but I can live with it until crafting rework

[somber axle]

Perfect Strike Shred Evis XV is my fav weapon but isn't this the worst melee? Or is Thammer worse?

[pseudo fiber]

idk why I didn't send it as one picture

[coral willow]

i usually put maniac

cause dreg ragers are ass

[faint beacon]

MkIII you’re already cooking

[bitter turtle]

by far

thammer is worse

its literally 1 trick

"tee he ekill boss"

like actually 1 trick because it cant even kill crushers well

[coral willow]

^

[bitter turtle]

or hordes

or literally anything

else

[coral willow]

which is why i dont put it in antiarmor category

kek

ironhelm is better with cleaving special

[faint beacon]

It’s cool! Just

[coral willow]

it can actually clear hordes

[faint beacon]

Again

[coral willow]

but crusis

[faint beacon]

One trick

[somber axle]

I remember bonking hordes with the big side sweeps but the horde clear is probably way worse than other Zealot melee options

[coral willow]

crusis is one trick pony

and its not even good at it

[somber axle]

Plus it is REALLY fun doing a charged heavy into a Mutie

[bitter turtle]

you're throwing them around with a nerf bat is more accurat eto describe

[somber axle]

Thammer go BAM

[faint beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/784431925019541505/1256055129686147152/mutie_ball.gif

[bitter turtle]

the actual dmg for clearing is really slow

[coral willow]

this is some tom and jerry shit

[somber axle]

YES EXACTLY

[pseudo fiber]

personally super excited for the crafting rework because I cannot wait to fucking remove elite damage from this it has haunted me for MONTHS man

[somber axle]

I love doing this so much

Thammer is so so so fun

[coral willow]

tbh elites might be decent on it

[faint beacon]

SO close to perfection lmao

[coral willow]

but idk

[willow siren]

this attitude is wqhyzealots belong in a jar

[pseudo fiber]

can't kill a rager in 1 revved light (which you can with maniac) so I sad

[faint beacon]

What type of jar…

[somber axle]

This is beautiful to look at. If it had Flak instead if Elite she would be perfect down to the tiniest detail in my eyes

[coral willow]

scabs? that sucks

[bitter turtle]

what attitude

its literally the worst melee for zealot

unless u think a melee literally only good at 1 niche thing is "good"

yeah its fun

to blow up bosses

but its really weak

[somber axle]

Backup made an all in Krak grenade talent tree for memes (it included but was not limited to: Tinkerer, Fire Team, Bring It Down and even Skirmisher for damage) and I decided to play the build then spam threw Kraks at the first boss I saw and would have instagibbed it if I got any Twinned Blast procs LOL

EVERY grenade talent possible

It was kinda fun but I wish a second boss had spawned in that run to see it blow up a boss again

The boss died so fast it didn't even get to attack anyone

[bitter turtle]

i remember before the buff a full on grenade meme did a little over half of a monstro hp bar

so i can believe it

i think the actual buff was like 400 more damage right?

[somber axle]

Yeah

Enough to kill Bulwarks without any talents

[faint beacon]

It was 800 I think

[somber axle]

I should look at the notes one sec

[bitter turtle]

or 800

[faint beacon]

It did 4k beforehand

Iirc

[faint beacon]

Huh

So it’s 400

[coral willow]

4800

[last parcel]

face the wall

[coral willow]

can kill bulwarks without any damage ups now

in which vet ususally took 2(elite damage, ogryn damage)

i know the buff is marginal but still mad that zealots get nerfs and vets gets buffs

[bitter turtle]

fotf and invocation deserved nerfs

surprised they didnt touch voc though

[faint beacon]

Ditto

[bitter turtle]

even if fotf was better imo :^)

[pseudo fiber]

VoC is getting shot next

[faint beacon]

VOC does need a nerf of some kind next

[coral willow]

idk tbh

[somber axle]

You're still technically right on it being an 800 increase when factoring in only Tinkerer though

[coral willow]

i will advocate for zealot being dead until vet and psyker gets decent nerfs

[bitter turtle]

that is way overblown

[tall torrent]

Replace gold toughness with TDR

[bitter turtle]

fotf is still strong as fuck

[somber axle]

Now stack in Focus Target 8 stack, Fire Team, Bring It Down, Twinned Blast and throw all your Kraks...

[coral willow]

hate that new invoc doesnt take consideration of slow hitting 2h weaponry

[somber axle]

Don't forget SKIRMISHER

[bitter turtle]

and invocation is still good

[bitter turtle]

maybe just consider that invocation isnt good on literally amost everything

now

and its fine

[white minnow]

he's been malding about this ever since the patch so there's no convincing him

[somber axle]

I think Close Quarters Kill Zone also boosts Krak damage but idk

[bitter turtle]

still good with knife/taxe/chs off the top of my head

[coral willow]

making it dead isnt the solution tbh

[bitter turtle]

its not dead wtf

[pseudo fiber]

Nah they won't do that gold toughness is too unique of a mechanic
45s cooldown tho

[coral willow]

not the best one ive seen

[coral willow]

yes!

[somber axle]

Uptime nerf imo but Numbers Cat suggested swapping the gold toughness to Toughness Damage Reduction instead and I would support that rework too

[hearty panther]

ill contest that FotF is/was probably not as broken as VoC, but i will say that it had the same smothering effect of nullifying all your other ult options

FotF just did fucking EVERYTHING

[coral willow]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

i would have rather taken fotf than voc

if the option was given to me

on vet

[hearty panther]

and you compound that with invocation of death

and it was very much a problem, and it was also stupid

[coral willow]

aside from BP nerfs cause it changed to rending instead of armor down, i think fotf nerf was justified

the ranged rending had to go

[hearty panther]

people 'feel good' because they are mashing their ult 10 times a minute into poxwalker hordes

[bitter turtle]

how is invocation "dead"

this is still insanely strong

[hearty panther]

but you arent really doing much other than producing overkill and voicelines

[bitter turtle]

frankly

its still too good

[tall torrent]

10 times per minute is rookie numbers

[bitter turtle]

imo

but every cdr option is too good

[tall torrent]

More like 20 per minute

[hearty panther]

yeah it was ridiculous lol

[coral willow]

how is it good when vet has even more broken cdr option

[coral willow]

also 30*

[faint beacon]

I’m got TDR I know I spitballed that when we were discussing reworking VOC

[coral willow]

good mk15 evi got it back in like 2 swings

which took less than 2 seconds

[somber axle]

Just cut the gold toughness duration to half the current duration. You'll still get crazy uptime with the CD with how Tactical Awarneness gives you crazy uptime through Voice of Command but now it's not permanent gold toughness unless you can maintain constant special kills throughout fights

[white minnow]

here we go, the "X is better so Y is bad" argument

[faint beacon]

Unsure what consensus we came to for % of TDR

[bitter turtle]

that was literally 7 seconds for your ability to come back

[tall torrent]

This is bad argument and u know it

[coral willow]

i know

[hearty panther]

ur a bad argument

[bitter turtle]

tha tis not worse than tac awareness

tac awareness is dependent on specific enemy types

[tall torrent]

40% TDR on VoC, no stacking between multiple veterans

[bitter turtle]

u can literally just get back fotf in 7 seconds regardless of what you're smacking

[coral willow]

which spawn frequent on higher difficulties without no remorse

[somber axle]

I like this a lot

[tall torrent]

Not 7s

[bitter turtle]

yes, but not always when you need it

[tall torrent]

More like 3s

[white minnow]

i'd just keep gold toughness and then make the duration extremely short

[bitter turtle]

im just going off what i just did in that vid

[hearty panther]

no instead make it so that if u VoC when u already have gold tough up u perils like a psyker

[bitter turtle]

i know it can be even faster

[tall torrent]

Perfect strike EV15 casually 1 ult every 3s

[white minnow]

so it's just to catch burst scenarios like a burster and not be an essentially passive bump to your max toughness

[bitter turtle]

cus i didnt even have bp up in that vid

lol

[hearty panther]

you become too full of fighting spirit and pull a cadia

[bitter turtle]

like

its staight up disingenuous to say

tac awareness "kill specialist" is anywhere near as reliable as invocation "play the game and have a functioning pulse"

the nerf just made it bad for slow weapons

which is unfortunate for them but fine to actually make the ability not dumb on literally everything at least

[hearty panther]

not bad, just not ridiculous

[bitter turtle]

yea i would not even say bad but im being generous

[tall torrent]

I want tac awareness to be changed to 2s/elite & special killed

Instead of 6s/special killed

[hearty panther]

probably the biggest issue is these flat #s instead of %s

[coral willow]

imho it was more reliable than invoc ever was cause elitespam you got less merit out of it regardless, meanwhile tac aware got the most out of the situation where elites and specials got spammed

[hearty panther]

make it much harder to balance

[tame schooner]

Is Kantrael shotgun a good weapon for auric damnation difficulty, or are there better options?

[coral willow]

i still think invoc should have taken into account 2h weaponry

[faint beacon]

Same CD and everything?

[coral willow]

other than that i think the nerf was fine

[tall torrent]

U get zero value from tac awareness from killing elites

[white minnow]

also doesn't help that we're in the era of elite/special spam

[bitter turtle]

dude

[somber axle]

I miss this tbh. Perfect Strike Shred Evis XV with Chorus LMFAO

[bitter turtle]

you clearly

did not play zealot well if you think invoc was less reliable than literally any other cdr

did you not see memers stealthing across the entire map

permanently

[last parcel]

i ran out of popcorn

[bitter turtle]

it functionally made your abilities have 0 cd

[tall torrent]

At worst make it 40s CD

[coral willow]

you dont need a charge if you are facing off against wave of poxwalkers

[bitter turtle]

its not a matter of "need it against poxwalkers"

its

[tame schooner]

Is Kantrael shotgun a good weapon for auric damnation difficulty, or are there better options?

[bitter turtle]

"any group of enemies becomes a pinata that you break open to instnatly refresh your cd"

[tough tiger]

i feel like funny op stuff like invoc cdr should stay simply for the fun of it

[coral willow]

eh no

it felt bad

[bitter turtle]

like i wasnt even doing tee hee XV instant refresh meme

just left clicking with taxe let me have it up every 5 second lol

[radiant chasm]

why nerf base cooldown on abilities cause people are abusing cdr

that makes no fucking sense

[white minnow]

the argument against funny op stuff would be about alternative options
e.g., they nerfed punishment because that gives space for the other stagger talents like grievous and faith to be taken
it's also not so funny when your teammate is annihilating everything before you can get to it

[coral willow]

old invoc was badly designed, but least it offered a slow but large swing weapons a good cooldown option compared to small hitting, but fast weapons where latter can cooldown whenever you want and former can get full merit out of lot of enemies but bad at small skirmishes

[bitter turtle]

against any target

[radiant chasm]

it just makes the ability worse on builds that don't have cdr IE martyrdom zealots

[hearty panther]

also Punishment would single handedly turn off nurgle bless lol

[coral willow]

now its just lmao slow weapon get fucked

[hearty panther]

rip 360% impact build

fair and balanced

[tall torrent]

Avg martyrdom coper

[bitter turtle]

you have it backwards

[coral willow]

i can agree with the change i dont like the result

[bitter turtle]

its not "bad" on slow weapons

[white minnow]

on the other hand, talents having different efficacy depending on the weapon is nothing weird

[bitter turtle]

its just still too good on fast weapons

[radiant chasm]

good they were eating 1 cast per 2 swings

[bitter turtle]

your ability should not have a 5 sec cd

[white minnow]

do you shit on +30% weakspot damage just because it doesn't equally work as well on every weapon

[coral willow]

yes

[hearty panther]

this entire argument btw is why swift slaying isnt coming back

[coral willow]

thank god it isnt

[white minnow]

and crit builds are still very good

[coral willow]

you know i will be mad at it until vet gets a nerf

[white minnow]

well i guess you wouldn't know though

yeah, but you could at least have more valid reasons for being this mad

[coral willow]

regardless of it being "usable" or not

[hearty panther]

i heard veteran got a buff and now they're op

[white minnow]

like, almost everything that you've been saying in discord has just been malding since the patch

[tall torrent]

Yes vet got buffed
No vet’s been op for a while

[white minnow]

this lasting amount of anger is just so weird for a nerf to a very stacked build of zealot

[hearty panther]

and now u can shoot through teammates! pure vet favouritism

[tall torrent]

To be fair, sharpshooter vet needed that change

[last parcel]

vet players need to be sodomised tbh

[coral willow]

remove almost and its golden

[white minnow]

so true

speaking as a non-vet player

[tall torrent]

VoC and tac awareness def need changes

Nobody is refuting that

[faint beacon]

Vets forever been OP

[hearty panther]

one thing for sure is VoC is a team-wide effect vs. the zeal shit being purely selfish

so it will be 'harder' to balance

[faint beacon]

It’s why I’m using shit that isn’t meta on Vet cause it’s actually fun

[hearty panther]

but honestly gold toughness has become an invisible crutch for a lot of players

idk

[tough tiger]

just give voc and tac aware to zealot

[hearty panther]

its just where were at

[coral willow]

you can run anything with voc and make it meta anyway

[bitter turtle]

you mean like how armor downgrade is a crutch for a lot of players

or was at least

[coral willow]

so its fine because its a crutch?

[bitter turtle]

literally have talked to ppl malding that "zealot melee is all bad against crushers"

[coral willow]

hello?

[hearty panther]

for four players, yes

[tall torrent]

I think demo stock needs to be moved to a different place, VoC needs to get CD nerf / gold toughness reworked into TDR, and tac awareness reworked into being much smaller value but working for both elites & specialists

[hearty panther]

but not in the active sense

if like, literally tomorrow, they just turned off gold toughness

a LOT of people

would suddenly discover they are dying a LOT

and they would have a hard time pinpointing why

[coral willow]

imho bad yea
mostly cause game doesnt stop giving pubs crusher spams where 10 of them roll at you at the same time
outside of that its fine

[hearty panther]

you dont have to be a veteran to benefit from VoC

[tall torrent]

Here’s the funny part
It’s still the hard crutch

[faint beacon]

VOC and For The Emperor as well it’s literally just oh I’m even more overpowered now

[coral willow]

fotf will always be a crutch due to how it has like the best shits for the zealot tbh

[faint beacon]

FTE is fine

[bitter turtle]

how is most melee "bad" against crusher spam

[faint beacon]

Just comboed with VOC it’s disgusting

[bitter turtle]

do you get overheaded as a regular occurence or something

idk

[coral willow]

mulltiple of them getting stacked on top the same hitbox hugely increases risk of doing this regardless of what you are doing

[bitter turtle]

if you know what you are doing it is really not an issue

idk how it even changes to calculus

3 crushers or 1 your dmg against them is not gonna change per swing

[faint beacon]

Aka respect the carapace wall moving towards you and retreat lmao

[coral willow]

game throwing half mute crushers into the mix doesnt help

[hearty panther]

i shall hug the crushers instead

[tough tiger]

10 crushers in front, poxburster and trappers constantly spawning behind

[bitter turtle]

you can kill them with little risk, dont need to run

the overhead is slow as fuck

[faint beacon]

Correct

[tough tiger]

cant just write off 10 crusher packs

[bitter turtle]

ok yes

but that is the trapper and bursters

not the crushers killing u

[coral willow]

no

[bitter turtle]

they're just blockign your vision

[coral willow]

crushers kill you

kek

[tall torrent]

Crusher pack buffed by Tox bomber:

[faint beacon]

I can risk it cause I know slide dodging fucks them over

[bitter turtle]

you do know that dodges have iframes on them right

even if you dont physically make it out of the swing

[coral willow]

i dont put crit evi on the menu for anti-armor usually cause of the reason it cant deal well with crusher spams

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-roll-dark-souls-roll-somersault-gif-26164281

[faint beacon]

Crusher combat gameplay

[hearty panther]

truly the cats of dark souls

[faint beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-roll-rolling-gif-9052103

[coral willow]

then again i only ever view axes and knives to be the pinnacle of anti-armor

unless you are something that has like 0 AP pen like catachan sword you can deal with like a single crusher + wave spawn

that isnt the case for 10 crusher stacked on top + wave spawn

and then voc can just walk forward press E and then ps6 swing

[tall torrent]

Shock mauls are alright tho

[coral willow]

shock mauls are great, i forgot to list that

[tall torrent]

U have options

[somber axle]

Helbore Mk II Exe Stance Krieger intensifies

[coral willow]

again i just think that having 10 on top of oneanother is the worst offender here

if they tone that down a bit i wouldnt mind the nerfs, but also please nerf vet

[hearty panther]

the new map is nice enough to leave roughly eight thousand barrels for us to use

[tough tiger]

no

[coral willow]

for friendlies to murder me, yes

[tough tiger]

do not remove crusher packs

[coral willow]

dont remove, like tone down their encounters

[tough tiger]

crusher packs are great

yeah i meant dont tone it down either

[tall torrent]

Vet nerf maybe next patch
But idk how they’ll approach, I think at most they’ll just increase VoC cooldown and not change how VoC normally works

If we’re lucky we get VoC +CD and tac awareness nerf in same patch

[coral willow]

according to some betatesters apprantly they tried 45 second VoC

apprantly got canceled cause "it'll kill vet"

[bitter turtle]

you're going to have to explain how this is "bad"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjPBXqGcObI

[tall torrent]

I think 40s is a sweet spot

[coral willow]

none of them are stacked on top of eachother

[tough tiger]

lol

[white minnow]

seems like weird reasoning since 45 second voc was something that we had for some period of time and isn't some whacky concept

[tough tiger]

yeah this dont really count

[bitter turtle]

they stack up when some of them are aggro'd onto teammates

[hearty panther]

vet was dead back then, arco

buried in the earth

[lofty ruin]

how are we feeling about the shock mauls? what blessings/ attack patterns do you guys like? (how do i break the strikedown chains on indignatus)

[hearty panther]

completely irredeemable trash and useless without unwavering focus

[tough tiger]

fighting 10 crushers in psyk is not the same as 10 crushers at the start of new map

[coral willow]

i dont really trust that betatest guy, he's wack at times

[bitter turtle]

yeah, its actually easier

to do it in real map

[white minnow]

the good reason would be to just go through changes at a step (even though I would personally prefer to just apply all the nerfs at the same time because my god do we deserve nerfs)

[bitter turtle]

they dont do that flanking shit

[tall torrent]

I still think they should approach VoC change by moving demo stock to a different spot in the tree

[coral willow]

i will advocate zealot is dead until vet also gets nerfed to match the current zealot a bit

[tall torrent]

[tough tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-fly-fly-cat-gif-23967129

[bitter turtle]

i assure you

that is faster than killing them with caxe anyway

[tough tiger]

zealot is not dead

[bitter turtle]

which admitteldy is a bit safer

but yea

[white minnow]

such a dead class if you consistently compare zealot's worst to vet's best
cuz let's not pretend that vet doesn't have any bad builds/options either

[tough tiger]

all u have to do is use fotf more strategically

[coral willow]

ye

still advocating for one when vet exists though

[white minnow]

the "X is better so Y is bad" argument takes another form once again

[coral willow]

it was always about that sorry

[hearty panther]

i think if u VoC ult as Vet ur guy should say "oh no, ive made a big poopy! a big poopy in my pants!" and then instead of staggering, all the heretics point and laugh at u, and so does ur teammates, it'll make u really reconsider spamming it

[white minnow]

-90% movement speed

for the rest of the mission

[hearty panther]

for the rest of the round

[white minnow]

HAHA

[hearty panther]

lmao

1/100 chance of fresh pants in an already empty chest

[coral willow]

its still strange that relic has gold toughness for 10 seconds while vet has 15

and relic cant fire while using it

[sterile phoenix]

Worth getting for melkbucks?

[tough tiger]

mmmmmi

i love the book

[fiery wave]

Relic is bad anyway

Doe no direct damage and takes away your ability to do damage

[tall torrent]

On a serious note
I think the worst they’ll do to VoC is nerfing its CD and tac awareness

At best we’ll get demo stock moved to the must-take path after the starter section so we’ll actually get choices in which ability to use

[tough tiger]

idk do u have bad teammates or sth?

[tall torrent]

I’d still rather they buff the 2 nodes in front of exe stance as priority tho

[hearty panther]

60s ult, 10s effect uptime, 6.6s channeled ult
vs
30s ult, 15s uptime, instant cast with no restrictions other than standing on solid ground

[white minnow]

though i'd think that playtesters would see how long the gold toughness lasts as a significant problem

[tough tiger]

a relic lets your team attack with impunity

[coral willow]

yes

[bitter turtle]

voc also lets you attack with impunity in most cases

[coral willow]

also he's joking about me

[white minnow]

i have some faith in them to also tackle how long the gold toughness lasts

[hearty panther]

15s is crazy fukken long

[white minnow]

i'd probably nerf it to 1 second

[hearty panther]

i do like the idea of gold toughness existing for a flash

[coral willow]

haha 15

[hearty panther]

just to soak up crazy damage blasts

[white minnow]

yeah for the burst moments instead of being an essentially passive buff

rewarding timing

[tough tiger]

gold tough is there to let the whole team facetank a poxburster

[hearty panther]

something has to differentiate relic vs VoC better in that respect

[hearty panther]

but it already does and then you can keep doing that for 15s

its so silly lol

fuck VoC

fuck Veteran

[tall torrent]

I would have played infil more
If it had better pathing

[hearty panther]

still cannot believe they reduced the CD on this thing by 15s

[tough tiger]

"yeah fuck vet, lets buff zealot" - other guy, probably

[coral willow]

i do thunk relic is a fun option

but i dont think it has much point over voc

[tough tiger]

ask yourself this, would you shout about how much you miss cadia or would you rather pull out a holy reliquary that lets you channel a tiny fraction of the emperor's will

literally all u need to consider

[coral willow]

ill take "show me your war faces"

[tall torrent]

Relic first needs to compete with FotF lol

[coral willow]

i like the new relic voicelines for judge zealot though

[tall torrent]

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

[somber axle]

No fraternizing on duty!

[hearty panther]

i know i would never draw attention to myself if i had just made a big poopy in my pants

[tough tiger]

cutthroat vet shits himself whenevevr he hears the word cadia

[somber axle]

I afk'd for a second and now you need new pants? What did I miss

[hearty panther]

i had to save my teammates from a burster

it was a necessary act

[somber axle]

Combine Hunter's Resolve and Surprise Attack. No one uses Surprise Attack anyway. Some people use Hunter' Resolve at least. Low Profile is just too good for aggro drop unless you are solo

[coral willow]

relic stil ldoes what fotf cant which is stagger AoE channeling with defense buff
my problem with relic is that it seems to do what voc can do, except on a longer cooldown and cutting down team's damage output by a quarter(cause you cant engage)

[somber axle]

The burster was inside you all along. And now it is inside your pants

[coral willow]

i do

[hearty panther]

i made a bursty boomboom 😦

[tall torrent]

The main problem with infil for me is the fact that I need to spend extra to get demo stockpile

[somber axle]

Combining Surprise Attack + Hunter's Resolve would at least make it more attractive as an option vs Low Profile and drops the point tax from it

[somber axle]

Just get Demo Team instead

[coral willow]

i use both instead of low prof tbh

[hearty panther]

do neither

[somber axle]

You always path to Iron Will anyway

It is a single point cost to get that as grenade regen

[coral willow]

i get demo team instead of iron will too so isk

[tall torrent]

Demo team is not as good as demo stockpile, and I usually use krak when I play infil

[somber axle]

Grenadier + Demo Team is usually all the grenade I need when doing Krak + Infil but that is fair. We have different playstyles and the 1 min regen is more consistent

[tall torrent]

Yea but ur like built differently

[coral willow]

smh

[faint beacon]

@tall torrent Expired milk has this, should I bother

[coral willow]

no

[tall torrent]

No

61% SP

[coral willow]

that stopping power lol

[faint beacon]

Unfortunate

[coral willow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1257855266628833280/image.png?ex=6685ec81&is=66849b01&hm=11a8d4cea3b2be44048f125b7c26a2d48af9655bdf68193abe65cbde7670f29e&

time for funny bleed

[tall torrent]

That first target is oof

[faint beacon]

Also Dump stats on GIAG again were?

[somber axle]

I'm built different too. If I have good boss damage and good Crusher killing potential on my weapons I ignore grenade regen entirely

Built DIFFERENT
Built INCORRECTLY

[faint beacon]

Im asking just so I can quickly throw together a Stripped down GIAG

[coral willow]

same shit

[last parcel]

everything is second target 😢

[faint beacon]

Stability and Mobility?

[narrow frost]

god knife

dont need first

[tall torrent]

Mobility (51%+) & ammo

[tall torrent]

It’s not that good lol

[hearty panther]

i kinda wanna make a ranty reddit post about mobility dumpstating

[faint beacon]

Noted

[tall torrent]

U dumped the only stat that needs to be as high as possible

[hearty panther]

but it would not really be worth my time

[somber axle]

Good blessings, but that First Target stat stings. First Target is probably the stat that changes your damage most

[hearty panther]

or anybody's tbh

[coral willow]

tanner moment

anyone run mobility 0 guns tho

[somber axle]

Damage Dump stat video from Tanner LMFAO

[tall torrent]

Honestly at this point I would not be surprised if u like tanner’s takes

[last parcel]

just write mobility on your asscheeks and snap a pic

[hearty panther]

idk i watched a dude a couple days ago (a week? idk) fail a clutch, and i knew just by watching that he died specifically because his mobility was garbo

[coral willow]

i dont, he's a idiot

[hearty panther]

and we returned to the same Mourningstar lobby so i inspected him

and his illisi was 80/80/80/80/17

[coral willow]

lol

[tough tiger]

lol

[jaunty fiber]

Yikers

[hearty panther]

people mega undervalue mobility

[tough tiger]

imagine dumping your dodges

[last parcel]

i have a 9 mobility recon VId on psyker but haven’t used it since the patch

[somber axle]

I like his takes just because people get so mad at him LMFAO
If nothing else the whole show is entertaining to watch

[hearty panther]

because that guy did almost everything right otherwise

[faint beacon]

@tall torrent Crit to Flak I assume

[hearty panther]

but he could not escape anything

[tall torrent]

Damage is usually the least important stat for dealing dmg

[hearty panther]

so he was slowly overwhelmed with time

[coral willow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1257739760076587070/image.png?ex=668580ee&is=66842f6e&hm=2e39b15ab775c04caf360088bd405bc952b20ab6ff91bf0aa9a7e88f50a4741f&

[jaunty fiber]

More like people just want their gun and will take anything that looks usable

[somber axle]

He literally calls the discord players gorillas in one video and I was laughing

[tall torrent]

Works

[tall torrent]

I can’t find someone like that entertaining

[somber axle]

Damage dump stat on Recons confirmed

[last parcel]

rowboat gorillaman

[coral willow]

tbh

ok what if you can take 100/100/100/80/0 weapon, what stat would you dump

[tough tiger]

wdy mean u dont find a neet femboy raging about video games not enjoyable smh

[somber axle]

He gets so loud and angry but he does not have a scary voice. His rants are just funny. The comedic value of hearing this man get increasingly mad while he rants is gold

[tall torrent]

Yea but he’s still not funny

[last parcel]

ok i need to sub right now

[hearty panther]

idk tanner would have been hilarious in 2005

[tall torrent]

At least I hate the misinformation aspect

[tough tiger]

HE HAS A REALLY GIRLY SNEEZE BTW

[tall torrent]

Considering I do vet guide

[coral willow]

hes funny when he buffed smite

[somber axle]

He's not trying to be funny. This isn't funny haha like a clown telling jokes. This is funny haha like a guy falling down the stairs

[last parcel]

what a klutz

[coral willow]

what about clown falling down stairs

[somber axle]

I have never fallen down the stairs but I did fall down and break my leg once

[jaunty fiber]

Bugh, man I legit cannot play anything but vet comfortably anymore

[tall torrent]

At least I really hate his misinformation

[faint beacon]

Who again?

[last parcel]

well then let’s do some science

[coral willow]

tanner

[tall torrent]

Tanner Lindberg

[coral willow]

he arants about helldivers now cause casuals listen to him

[tall torrent]

“Reciprocity so much value” guy

[bitter turtle]

angry and impotent doesn't really seem very femboy to me

[faint beacon]

Isn't he the one who also said Toughness Regen was pointless also?

something like that?

[tall torrent]

He doesn’t know breakpoints and apparently is not even that good lol

[faint beacon]

Im going to make sure we're talking about who i think you are

[coral willow]

i wanna post random anime images

[faint beacon]

OH HIM

YEAH

LMAO

I kept having his shit pop up in my feed

and I would just look at it for a second

holy shit they get so MAD

[tall torrent]

I clicked his channel off as “never recommend” a long time ago

Not worth my attention

[last parcel]

i don’t see any arbites around

[hearty panther]

did the same the first time he dropped an rslur lol

[faint beacon]

I never really understood their "Toughness Regen is pointless" video

Never understood it

[tall torrent]

Was he talking about toughness regen as curio perk

[hearty panther]

yes

[tough tiger]

yeh

[faint beacon]

Yes

I still see value in it

[hearty panther]

most the community has an incredibly warped perception of coherency regen

[somber axle]

Tanner gets so mad in his vids LMFAO

[faint beacon]

even if its not huge

[tall torrent]

That one depends, it’s not particularly horrible but on most classes u don’t rly need it

[faint beacon]

Look I know Veteran

Really DOESNT need it

[hearty panther]

it's basically the least useful regen

[somber axle]

Time to break the OTHER leg! It needs to match

[faint beacon]

but I enjoy having that up time more so I can fight gunners

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/tuco-salamanca-raymond-cruz-woohhoo-yes-yey-gif-17026577

[tall torrent]

It’s better to run catch a breath than coherency toughness regen

[faint beacon]

"GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/wildatheart-wild-at-heart-model-model-falls-down-stairs-falling-down-stairs-gif-4778452334705573401

[tall torrent]

And catch a breath is a node u only take if you’re going survivalist

[last parcel]

clandestium glorianna

[faint beacon]

Content

to be fair I dont see a point in making a video to... shit on someone???

like ???

I mean thats just me but eh whateva

[bitter turtle]

I don't see the point of lying about your parses either but who knows :^)

[faint beacon]

Schizophrenic Ramblings

that and its funny hearing people get super fucking heated over game mechanics

[somber axle]

I have no idea what this one is about. I have only really seen his vids on toughness regen and damage is a dump stat. Both were very funny though

[somber axle]

His whole deal is he is a rude dude and he actively calls both reddit and discord full of apes

[bitter turtle]

why would I watch something like that when I can watch mint fantome

[somber axle]

I don't take him seriously, I just like to laugh at how funny it is when he gets so mad

I watch ChocoB for Darktide gameplay

[coral willow]

any of you take asianrobot seriously?

just wondering

[bitter turtle]

idk who that is

[hearty panther]

no

[bitter turtle]

i only watch cute vtubers

[faint beacon]

Fuck it I'll watch the video

[coral willow]

40k vtuver when

[faint beacon]

I watch videos that usually involve the most braindead editing possible

[last parcel]

i'm pretty sure i've been recommended that person a few times

[coral willow]

he exists

[somber axle]

Gale can I send you a video

[faint beacon]

yes

[faint beacon]

This video is apparently the most piss easy argument ever

its someone on reddit saying the Zarona with 3% Damage is shit

and them literally just proving the Zarona (an overpowered gun)

is in fact overpowered

like there was no fucking point to even making the video lmao

we ALL know the Zarona is busted

[hearty panther]

nah

the point is that 3% damage and how most poeple react to it

not that revolver is broken lol duh

[coral willow]

3% damage columnus

[hearty panther]

there's more important modifiers than damage sometimes and the actual numerical bracket between 0 and 80% is sometimes less than a 10% difference in DPS

[faint beacon]

Unuseable

clearly

100%

[hearty panther]

and thats his point

[coral willow]

like how his followup is dumping every damage possible and saying it deals damage

[faint beacon]

Crosses le finger behind le back

[hearty panther]

people dont really know shit

[coral willow]

true

[hearty panther]

and many things remain useable

he remains an insufferable twerp however

[coral willow]

but is it really that important to dump damage over mobility?

[faint beacon]

lmao

[hearty panther]

when there's zero difference between 0 and 80 damage and a huge difference for mobility?

seems like an obvious choice

[coral willow]

idk, never felt issue for mobility on guns

maybe cause i dont hold them out

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046913589614747719/1257739760076587070/image.png?ex=668580ee&is=66842f6e&hm=2e39b15ab775c04caf360088bd405bc952b20ab6ff91bf0aa9a7e88f50a4741f&

i used this for a long while and probably will

[hearty panther]

shotgun has awful sprint cost

like at base

[coral willow]

just dont sprint with it :^)

[hearty panther]

but still there's an entire .5 difference in sprint speed from 0-80 for almost all weapons

thats significant

[faint beacon]

If the emperor wanted you to be mobile

he would've made your shotgun lighter

[hearty panther]

all your bonuses go on top of that number

yea im very happy the dubs barrel got revolver mobility

[coral willow]

assault shotgun

anyway

idk

as a zealot player i dont run around with my gun ofren

[hearty panther]

i have whatever is fastest out

[coral willow]

60-80 mobility diff doesnt seem that high

not that damage differs but still

i wanna dump stability on kantrael shotgun

so i can shoot in wider cone

[somber axle]

Damage is literally only important if the difference helps you on a breakpoint

[coral willow]

do you know why it has better spread while running btw

[hearty panther]

iunnno

[somber axle]

Otherwise it is just fluff and more boss DPS

[coral willow]

i use it for cleave damage :^)

[bitter turtle]

yea but that's an "if" that usually is "yes it does"

[somber axle]

Like Numbers Cat has a VoC FT+RF build with Plasma that has tight breakpoints requiring 78+ Damage/Stopping Power

[bitter turtle]

even on your recon you saw improved crusher ttk and ammo usage when you upgraded it no?

[somber axle]

It was a very minor increase iirc but it did end up being worth aiming for

[tall torrent]

Run & gun

[somber axle]

I like min maxing the Recon to funny levels

[coral willow]

i susually go for more damage cause there are more damage buffs than movility buffs

[coral willow]

no even without it

might be the mod bugging out but have seen runngunless assault shotgun shrink in reticle

you cant fire it ofc

[somber axle]

The extra 100~ DPS was worth for me but most would consider something like that meaningless because TTK doesn't really change

[coral willow]

but yknow

[hearty panther]

especially on a recon 6

where the next round is gonna follow up in less than 50milliseconds

[somber axle]

Yes LOL

It's literally 1 damage point between 70% damage and 80% damage, and at max a 3% difference in damage over longer range

It's meaningless for most but for a clown trying to hyper juice a gun for the funniest number it was worthwhile

The Recon VId cares more for the Ammo stat now imo

[coral willow]

koreans will mald at the damage loss

(so do i)

[hearty panther]

u matter

[coral willow]

kek

[somber axle]

The DPS difference even when using all the ranged juice between 70% DMG Recon Mk VId and an 80% DMG Recon Mk VId was pretty meaningless tbh. You would see more of a change in DPS/TTK from perks/blessings/talents and for general play it is more important to have an Ammo stat at or as close to 80% as possible for a Recon Mk VId because of how thirsty the gun is for ammo

[coral willow]

oh koreans will say 88886 for mobility or its bust

🤡

[somber axle]

Mobility is a dump stat beyond 51%

Except for Knife

Which can function off of like... 11%?? I forgor

[coral willow]

idk, i like 77777 usually better

[coral willow]

i have a 5% damage knife

[hearty panther]

here's a good example

that melk has for me rn

[coral willow]

and a 3% first target one too

[hearty panther]

this is a 100% functional columnus

[somber axle]

I have a 0% damage Helbore Mk II

[coral willow]

nice

[hearty panther]

but i know some of you would tell people to not buy it

and i know fukken reddit would too

[coral willow]

its servicable but i aint paying for thay

[somber axle]

Isn't she beautiful?

[hearty panther]

what else do you HAVE is the point

[coral willow]

zealot cant have a gun that can oneshot most specials and have ghost

sad

[somber axle]

Zealot has some of the most fun melee options in the game imo

[coral willow]

yeah i just dont like his options against 10 crusher packs every hour

otherwise hes fun

too bad he doesnt have that much melee options

[somber axle]

Huh

Doesn't Zealot have the most varied and fun set of melee options to play?

[coral willow]

yes im saying ths as i make the 13th build

[frank basin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1257646428822700253/jack-black-peach_1.mp4?ex=66852a02&is=6683d882&hm=ae0e2414bbd580433934dc7af421fafca670894c6b7956976539c3367714dd95&

[coral willow]

eh

[somber axle]

Ooo I wasn't aware the Rending thing was changed. I had heard about the crit CD thing though

Zealots must be so upset in their channel

But I live in Vet chat so I'll never see

[coral willow]

i still only think that anti armor is meaningful only in where 10 crushers rush you

[last parcel]

i think they just talk about destiny 2 in there

[coral willow]

in which zealot was severely nerfed

[somber axle]

Wasn't the FotF Rending thing a big part of what made Flamer funny?

[fiery wave]

not rending

[coral willow]

ye

well not rending, armor down

[somber axle]

Probably yeah. Even pre-update they don't talk about Darktide. Zealot players come here to ask for advice LOL

[coral willow]

fotf was renewaled

[coral willow]

or i go rant there lolz

[somber axle]

Sometimes Zealot refugees trickle in to ask Vets on how their class works

It is bizarre

[civic knot]

Practically speaking: does 20% rending = +20% more damage to armor?

[fiery wave]

How do you not know henkz

[coral willow]

caxe lost 2shot crusher territory also

lot of melee got shook up unintentionally

lol

[civic knot]

forgor

[somber axle]

Context dependent

If you have .5 ADM to an armour type you do 50% damage to it. 10% Rending puts you to .6 instead, 20% rending to .7

100 damage shot -> .5 ADM cutting damage in half -> 50 damage

100 damage shot -> .6 ADM reducing damage by 40% -> 60 damage

100 damage shot -> .7 ADM reducing damage by 30% -> 70 damage

10% Rending was a 20% increase in damage for the first scenario, but 20% Rending is a 40% increase in damage

But if you are already at 100% damage for ADM then additional rending is only a 1% increase for each 10% rending above 100%

(This is my understanding of Rending/ADM but I could be wrong so)

But yeah depending on context it can be that increase

[civic knot]

Whats adm stand for?

[somber axle]

Armour Damage Modifier

So for example your damage when it hits Carapace will be reduced for many weapon types

[civic knot]

Thank you for the elaborate response!

Greatly appreciated

[coral willow]

was it nerfed down to 1 per 10 points?

[somber axle]

Welcomes! I may be wrong in my understanding of how this works (if Rending is multiplicative instead of additive with the ADM, or if the math works out differently than I think) so another Vet may chime in and correct me

[coral willow]

thought it was 1 per 4

jeez

[somber axle]

The weaker a weapon is to a specific ADM, the more powerful Rending becomes

[coral willow]

the longer the icon of sin

[somber axle]

Say your weapon that does 100 damage a shot has a .8 ADM to a specific armour type. 10% rending isn't helping that much

100 Damage -> .8 ADM as a 20% damage reduction -> 80 damage

100 Damage -> .9 ADM as a 10% damage reduction -> 90 damage

The 10% rending only increases damage by 12.5% there

Anyway all this is meaningless babble because rending is really only big when dealing with something like Carapace (or improving damage done to an ADM the weapon struggles against like Infested type on Hounds vs Boltgun or Boltpistol) and even then it is only important if it helps you hit an important breakpoint

[junior haven]

Okay but is .8 or .9 ADM (which I am presuming to mean 'something damage modifier') normal? Honestly?

[somber axle]

But rending is very fun to run on automatic weapons

[somber axle]

Yes but it depends on the weapon

[junior haven]

Because weapons have inherent bonuses versus certain types. Right. So a +25 could get there. Mkay.

[somber axle]

You would need to inspect your weapon to see the ADMs vs different armour types. Recons just had their ADMs buffed vs Maniac as a huge example

[faint beacon]

So I see why Duck and Dive + Stripped Down is pretty fucked

[junior haven]

Gun envy.

[somber axle]

[somber axle]

Also look at this as an example:

This is a very silly example

[austere mica]

Vets I swear

[somber axle]

But you can see how different armour types change damage at different ranges for it

The patch notes also show you the ADMs for the Recons

[coral willow]

after shooter buff it might even be meta

[faint beacon]

Well you keep getting Stamina even during immunity

it might get nerfed

I wont lie

its

very strong

[last parcel]

we really are the worst

[faint beacon]

POOPSOCK

[coral willow]

its not imho

[somber axle]

It works for Ghost too according to Numbers Cat!

[bitter turtle]

yea

it works for ghost and not in the scuffed ass way recip works

[somber axle]

...I'm afraid to ask but who is Riley??

[bitter turtle]

actually works on elite shooters

[last parcel]

idk, all i know is that they must have some wet panties

[coral willow]

too bad second wind doesnt work with stripped down

does it work with ghost?

[bitter turtle]

yes

[coral willow]

huh

does infernus ghost better than infernus dumdum

[bitter turtle]

neither

ghost dumdum

if we're talking laspistol

[junior haven]

Fair enough. Thanks for the mini lesson. I think there is something to be said for rending on cleaving weapons, right? Increased damage per hit seems like that would make it appealing.

Getting high rending with the infinite cleave perk for force swords would seem to be a great way to boost overall damage spread.

[hollow solstice]

What would I change 🤔

[somber axle]

It depends on if it helps hit breakpoints. I like rending on automatic weapons because it substantially increases their DPS/TTK vs things like Flak and Carapace

[bitter turtle]

specialists to elite

[last parcel]

specialist --> elite

and your underwear

[somber axle]

I don't know Psyker stuff though

[bitter turtle]

it doesnt uniquely benefit high cleave weapons

[last parcel]

once a month is not enough

[bitter turtle]

i dont really follow the logic here

[somber axle]

Force Sword math is over my head LOL

I am a simple Vet Clown

[junior haven]

I'm not saying uniquely. I'm saying it would be particularly useful

[bitter turtle]

not more particularly useful than justs increasing your dmg

[last parcel]

so you haven't tried gaze gunker with dumdum infernus VId

[bitter turtle]

unless your weapon has

[somber axle]

Not yet but I should

[bitter turtle]

really shitty ADMs

like say

yeah

dclaw vs flak

rending is great for trying to clear our bruisers

cause the flak dmg on it is really bad

[somber axle]

The lack of Shock Trooper on Psyker makes me cling to Vet for Recon memes usually

[amber cliff]

Recon las gun supreamacy

grah

[bitter turtle]

rending on psword is

useless

on the other hand

since the ADMs are already really high

[amber cliff]

anyone figured out a worth while bolt pistole build btw?

[native furnace]

So bolt pistol... lethal prox + puncture?

[bitter turtle]

surgical + DA is the most common rollout rn

im gonna meme with puncture + DA though

[bitter turtle]

lethal prox doesnt proc puncture

[somber axle]

I found one that 1HKOs Crushers but you need to be good at hitting headshots consistently to maintain Marksman's Focus stacks

[bitter turtle]

there is no unique synergy there if that is what you are hoping for

[somber axle]

It is my fav Boltpistol build

[amber cliff]

Whats DA?

[native furnace]

Ah. So people are taking DA for the straight damage boost

[bitter turtle]

deadly accurate

[somber axle]

Deadly Accurate

[amber cliff]

OHHHHh

ok

[last parcel]

daddy's anus

[somber axle]

Increased damage on critical weakspot hit

[amber cliff]

SHUYT UP BACKUP

I REmEBER YOU

YOU FUCK

[bitter turtle]

honestly

[amber cliff]

RE

[bitter turtle]

i was thinking of trying to say something absurd

[somber axle]

I fucking cackled

[bitter turtle]

but i couldnt think of anything fast enough

gj

[amber cliff]

you FREAK

[junior haven]

But in a cleaving sense, if I'm remembering correcrly that the damage diminishes per hit and kill, the boons of aiming for a high rending would boost the overall amount of potential kills? Maybe. I dunno. I did take a gummy and I do hate math.

[amber cliff]

why does the larger one not simple eat the smaller one

ill take any build honestly

[last parcel]

felinid vore

[coral willow]

yeah but mine has infernus locked 🤡

[amber cliff]

nah feeling a low 6 on that one

[bitter turtle]

i mean in the sense that you are doing more damage yes if you have low ADM

if you have high ADM you're going to see like 1 extra dmg

[native furnace]

So do I run Unyiedling + Elites, or keep Specialists? Breakpoints suggest maybe Elites could be solid...

[bitter turtle]

so yes it does help but not any more or less than it does for a normal non cleaving weapon

[amber cliff]

Oh wtf why did I think DA was the critical hit blessing for ADS

[last parcel]

here's my puncture build that uses neither executioner's stance nor determined

[amber cliff]

for da bolt pisstole?

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

this is basically the only purpose of puncture

[amber cliff]

https://tenor.com/bXMRX.gif

[bitter turtle]

you can skip every dmg up except superiority complex

[amber cliff]

Oh dope thanks

[bitter turtle]

and still 1tap gunners and flamers

so

if skipping longshot or whatever sounds nice to you

you can take puncture

i was gonna meme puncture + DA just relying on deadshot and wep specialist for proccing crits

and then i can just hipfire dreg gunner and flamer for 1taps without needing to rely on longshot or crits

[bitter turtle]

idk it might be a meme though

[native furnace]

Is there any reason to keep Specialists on the bolt pistol at all?

[amber cliff]

I am 1% more autistic

[bitter turtle]

no

[amber cliff]

lets go

[bitter turtle]

elite + maniac

[native furnace]

Maniac? Really? Not Unyielding or Flak?

[amber cliff]

Untill they fix bolt pistoles weird af jank i will NOT be happy

[bitter turtle]

do you want to 1tap flamers

if not

then sure

run something else

[native furnace]

I mean, of course I do. 😛

[slow spade]

You always either 1 hit head or 2 hit body in my testing

[lucid hinge]

you can one tap flamers with elite as well

just run DA/Surg

[bitter turtle]

elite doesnt boost dmg against flamers

[last parcel]

flamers aren't elites

[bitter turtle]

you are relying on a crit then

[lucid hinge]

Yeah I misread

[bitter turtle]

which yea

if you wanna rely on a crit

that is an option

[lucid hinge]

either way you don't need maniac to one shot flamers

BP is very versatile

[bitter turtle]

let me rephrase

you need maniac to one tap flamers without a crit

[last parcel]

executioner's stance users have entered the chat

[bitter turtle]

i dont see what flak or unyielding do anyway

[amber cliff]

https://tenor.com/bgWxm.gif

[last parcel]

unyielding boosts your puncture boss dmg

[amber cliff]

its stealth smoke OR NOTHING

[slow spade]

Yeah sadly flak doesn't seem to have meaningful boosts

[amber cliff]

IN THIS ELITE GUNNER BUFFED WORLD

[lucid hinge]

I wouldn't run unyielding on bp

[slow spade]

Maybe 1-shot vs scab shooters? Lol

[bitter turtle]

you already 1shot scab gunners

if you mean the elites

[amber cliff]

Sorry shredder nade users IRL. The smoke nade vet gets the girl

[lucid hinge]

especially when Mk6 psword exists and kraks exist

[slow spade]

Na the normal shooters

[bitter turtle]

o

[slow spade]

I find I still occasionally take 2 hits on them without flak

[bitter turtle]

tbh

its not revovler

[slow spade]

But its eh?

[bitter turtle]

but i think bp isnt even that bad againnst crusher

[slow spade]

I usually hit them on accident

[bitter turtle]

spamming shot with DA and deadshot

[amber cliff]

revolver rending talent needs to die

so BP can live

[lucid hinge]

nothing will ever be good when compared to the revolver

[bitter turtle]

its like 4 or 5 shots

[amber cliff]

or blessing

not talent

[bitter turtle]

not the worst thing ever

[slow spade]

Handcannon for all guns when?

[amber cliff]

DIE

[slow spade]

UwU

[bitter turtle]

recon finally meta

[amber cliff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1247976800185880687/POXWALKER.mp4?ex=668594f7&is=66844377&hm=6ac97f0ae743c658263f968b3e78829ce600e7ce3ab6856b4b5c36e0090e0402&

[bitter turtle]

handcannon headhunter

[amber cliff]

That video always makes me laugh man

[slow spade]

It "would" solve the revolver supremacy

[amber cliff]

when everyone super...

[lucid hinge]

just delete the revolver from the game fr

[amber cliff]

no one will be

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1053823148048527440/1241490392415866921/eldar.mp4?ex=6685b707&is=66846587&hm=d251dc7dc0c6f54afb8f000056770b9ed7bd15703589c999ae3d455da4794278&