veteran-class

[last parcel]

it's jarring

[radiant chasm]

dum dum headhunter on VIIa right

recon

[last parcel]

yes

[somber axle]

Yeah

[radiant chasm]

first craft of the night

[somber axle]

That's really good! Might be a little tricky to burst down a Mauler so make sure to grab Rending Strikes for the 10% rending to help with that ADM

[radiant chasm]

i got onslaught prob not gonna get rending strikes in my build

[somber axle]

Alternatively bring a can opener melee

[bitter escarp]

Thank you so much, I’ll definitely be trying that 🙂

[radiant chasm]

i stretch out too much to grab double stam regen nodes

yea my melee is always rashad or psword

[somber axle]

Onslaught isn't going to improve DPS much on the Recon Mk VIIa tbh. It's really only useful on the Recon Mk VId. The Recon Mk VIIa has the lowest fire rate so it benefits least from Onslaught's stacking brittleness

[last parcel]

onslaught doesn't do much on a VIIa

you could probably just spend the points elsewhere

yes even if you go weapon specialist

[faint beacon]

I regret to inform you I've made another Byeaheimer

[radiant chasm]

fair enough

[somber axle]

Good luck! Remember that if you time things you can have 20 seconds of no threat from enemies between Infiltrate and Low Profile

Also also you can underhand shredder grenades during Infiltrate stealth and not break invisibility

[coral willow]

i think

[somber axle]

But only underhand throws with shredders

[coral willow]

if you want anti-carapace you're better of getting +10% rending

[somber axle]

Very good for clearing a crowd while hidden

[coral willow]

also smokes p sure but they dont do CC

[somber axle]

Yeah that too! Kraks will break stealth if they attach to something and pop

[tall torrent]

18

[radiant chasm]

i can really feel the recon buff

don't midn the previous word i am sleepy

i am confusing melee and recon in my head somehow

so is crit outside of headhunter even worth it on VIIa

[modern fern]

idk if i should be happy or sad for these blessings

[radiant chasm]

wondering if it would be good to dump out reciprocity

[radiant chasm]

grey names can't post images

[modern fern]

bruh

[somber axle]

I keep forgetting Infiltrate Stealth is 8 seconds LOL

But that means with Overwatch you get 36 seconds of freedom

[radiant chasm]

have to wait for time spent X text interactions and your name will turn red automatically

[modern fern]

well i got rampage 3 and savage sweep 4 on my chainsword

[radiant chasm]

oh wait

crit is shocktrooper

i need to not think about my build

[radiant chasm]

unless oyu already have a rampage 4 chsword that sounds great lol

[somber axle]

I like Deadshot on the Recons and it is far easier to maintain Deadshot uptime on the slower Mk VIIa and Mk II but tbh I use Focus Target and Target Down so I can chain kills and restore Stam easier

[modern fern]

if i could id send pic but i cant :, (

[last parcel]

recip has issues gaining stacks when dodging ranged hits, so it's more of a "i'm taking this for melee and it happens to help my recon" thing

[radiant chasm]

no thanks

[somber axle]

If you don't like juggling stamina for extra crit definitely don't touch Deadshot

[last parcel]

and yes sneaky is a nut who runs deadshot recon

[somber axle]

TRIPLE STAM CURIOS TIME

[radiant chasm]

i do not have a stam curio ready yet

[modern fern]

do i just keep talking to convict or something ?

bruh

[tall torrent]

overwatch is 60s CD

[last parcel]

basically yeah

oh hello there

[modern fern]

bruh

[somber axle]

Yes but with both charges ready you get 8 sec infiltrate, 10 sec low profile, 8 sec infiltrate, 10 sec low profile

[modern fern]

this good or bad ?

[somber axle]

Then in another 24 seconds you have another use of Infiltrate and Low Profile ready for another 18 seconds of freedom

[last parcel]

pen's a bit low and XIIIg needs wrath instead of savage

[somber axle]

And that's without factoring in any specials killed during Low Profile to lower the CD per special kill by 6 sec

[tall torrent]

kinda not worth considering infil usually has big talent tax
low profile is usually good enough

[coral willow]

i usually get overwatch

its fun

[tall torrent]

yea but u usually also skip iron will so like

[last parcel]

i just watch sfms of mercy getting railed

[radiant chasm]

perks bad blessings good

you can just swap both perks, you are gonna need to do something fancy for XIIIg with sweep tho

[somber axle]

2 points isn't too steep tbh. More expensive than the 1 point from VoC but not a big deal depending on build

It's also more convenient for a newer Vet imo

[tall torrent]

depends on the weapons picked

[modern fern]

the only blessing i got is wrath and bloodletter 3

[coral willow]

if i use overwatch i usualy have iron will

[modern fern]

i can rebless savage for wrath

[coral willow]

kinda hard to pass up 755 TDR

[bitter turtle]

i usually grab on overwatch for infil builds

idk i feel like infil needs to play risky to make it worth not taking voc

[modern fern]

sorry rampage for wrath since its works with savage

[bitter turtle]

the 2nd charge is nice if you misjudged the situation

[radiant chasm]

there is no point in stacking both

you'd get more for changing both perks

[tall torrent]

yes but that 1 point usually can be spent on nicer things like tinkerer krak yk

[bitter turtle]

also the actual difference in cooldowns is a bit reduced since you can run the CDR curios for greater effect, and tac awareness baiscally will never overfill

[shadow aurora]

Personally i feel like infil gives you enough to keep you alive for a long tine. Voc is obviously better for survival but the 90% less threat is really stupid

I still take iron will though too tbh

[bitter turtle]

i dont u se infil to stay alive

[radiant chasm]

double stacking on cleave blessings is worthless, all it does is increase hitmass you can swing through, it doesn't provide any straight damage buff

[modern fern]

the only two perks i got is wrath and bloodletter 3

[bitter turtle]

i use infil to dive 30m in front of my team and kill everything

[radiant chasm]

don't confuse blessings and perks

[modern fern]

sorry blessings

[radiant chasm]

change your spec damage and sprint efficieny

[shadow aurora]

Fair enough, my fault king

[bitter turtle]

[radiant chasm]

leave blessings as is you just have to open with a weird swing to get savage sweep going

[bitter turtle]

imo using infil defensively means you prob should have just taken voc

[somber axle]

I like running Infiltrate without Overwatch because I use it very often to reposition, to return to the team safely if I diverted down an alley to hunt for plasteel/diamantine/ammo tins and packs/medkits/ammo crates/stims and the team pushed up quick, to pull off revives, or to buy some room to breathe during a horde to fire down gunner lines/snipers/reapers/etc. but I think a newer player will benefit more from Overwatch

If you run all combat ability regen perks on curios your CD goes from 60 sec recharge to 53 sec recharge, and if no Overwatch it goes from 45 to 40 sec. At that point it is probably more beneficial to let the extra charge timer build for a bonus get out of jail free card when killing specials to give leeway. If Infiltrate is off CD and you kill a special, it provides no value to CD reduction. If you have 1 charge of Infiltrate and kill a special it is building toward a second charge. The only difference is 13 seconds between recharging on max combat ability regen perks, 15 sec if no combat ability regen perks. That's only a bit more than 2 specials killed with Tactical Awareness and gives someone the freedom to build toward an extra charge during moments of downtime where Infiltrate is off CD and it's not so dangerous as to force a use yet

[modern fern]

alright

[tall torrent]

I wish vet had some kind of CD reduction for killing elites sometimes

[shadow aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[modern fern]

lmao

[tall torrent]

I infil, kill 6 shotgunners, now I still have 20s+ CD

[bitter turtle]

if that was true

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza-majima-understandable-have-a-great-day-gif-27057900

[bitter turtle]

then maybe i would not use on overwatch yea

[tall torrent]

I'd rather tac awareness did way less but worked on both elites & specials

[last parcel]

should've chased after the mutant

[bitter turtle]

chances are you'll be off cd if you got -6 seconds from every shotgunner/gunner you kill

[shadow aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/yakuza0-goro-majima-majima-goro-kiryu-gif-14912591

[bitter turtle]

but waiting 40 sec in case u misjudged and fucked up and went too deep can just kill you sometimes

[tall torrent]

even if it was 3s I'd still take that

like, fk it, make tac awareness work for both elites & specials but cut effect drastically

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/majima-goro-majima-majima-jumpscare-gif-24485179

[bitter turtle]

yeah that's probably a buff

[tall torrent]

3s per elite/special killed (by u)

even 2s

2s prob better tbh

CDR in general needs to be tuned down

[somber axle]

Tac Awareness nerf would be a really good way of nerfing both Voice of Command and Infiltrate without hurting Exe Stance much at all

Exe Stance refresh would let it continue on as normal as long as you chain highlight kills, but uptime on the other two would drop

[tall torrent]

they'd still be better than exe most of the time

[somber axle]

Yes but it would bring them more in line

Baby steps

[sharp epoch]

why would they nerf infiltrate? its already bad

[somber axle]

You don't want to overnerf the abilities into irrelevance and suddenly no Vet touches Voice of Command ever again

But you do probably want to rebalance things so Exe Stance isn't viewed as so weak

[tall torrent]

it's not gonna happen unless they move grenade regen lol

[bitter turtle]

i stg if they just moved demo stockpile more ppl would take other abilities

[sharp epoch]

its not just demo

[bitter turtle]

yes it is

if i go infiltrate

which by the way

no

[sharp epoch]

its iron will on the same path

[bitter turtle]

is not bad

i literally

[tall torrent]

voc is strong for 3 reasons
demo stock, gold toughness, tac awareness

[bitter turtle]

lose points

to go infil

even if i was on the right side

compared to siwtching lanes

[somber axle]

idk if they cut the gold toughness duration down to 1/4th the duration and increased ability CD similar to how revive shout increases CD for taking the talent node, I think you might get some people taking revive over gold toughness

[bitter turtle]

to go voc

absolutely stupid

[somber axle]

imagine if gold toughness shout increased CD like revive does

[bitter turtle]

this is irrelevant

[somber axle]

now drop duration to 1/4

[bitter turtle]

no build does not pass the middle on the bottom tree

[somber axle]

suddenly people view gold toughness as less attractive because the uptime is so much smaller

[bitter turtle]

like u'd have to build literally a "i put all 30 points in one side of the tree" for that to happen

[somber axle]

it's still a very strong tool

but more reactive

you have to time it properly during fights to eat hits, vs just sitting on gold with very little time outside of gold

[bitter turtle]

its literally just cause demo stockpile already puts exec and infil at -1 point economy right off the bad by existing

and on top of that infil and exec both want 2 subnodes

so its -2 point economy compared to voc

[somber axle]

tbh that's how I would rebalance Voice of Command

[jaunty fiber]

Petition to toggle off up to 3 specific missions from showing up in quickplay

[somber axle]

just change uptime on gold toughness

[bitter turtle]

literallys witching trees (-1 point economy) is cheaper

[somber axle]

you don't need to rework gold toughness

[tall torrent]

no, then u just get people taking VoC without subnodes lol

[somber axle]

just nerf the uptime Vets get with it

[jaunty fiber]

I keep getting thrown into this new one that really likes to throw bullshit at you at the very start.

[somber axle]

nah people would still take gold toughness because it's just that good

are you saying you'd skip gold toughness in that scenario?

[sharp epoch]

the subnodes are the problem, no other ability has multiple subnodes that are needed for it to be actually useful

[tall torrent]

3.75s of gold toughness is not worth +15s CD and u know this

[bitter turtle]

well no

tbh

2 subnodes are actually pretty standard for a lot of other abilities

on other trees

so idk

i would like it to be buffed to only 1 needed for exec/infil

[jaunty fiber]

An ambush on top of a chaos spawn that is smart enough to just throw you off the edge of the precarious catwalk.

Instant wipe. It was absurd.

[bitter turtle]

but maybe nerfing voc is better

andf uckin moving demo stockpile

[somber axle]

it is still worth the talent node spent and tbh that extra CD time and reduced duration would absolutely balance it to bring it more in line with Infiltrate and Exe Stance

[sharp epoch]

only one is taken normally and it locks the other

[radiant chasm]

eerrr

[somber axle]

suddenly no one considers Voice of Command as mandatory or you're trolling LOL

[radiant chasm]

that's a bold claim

[somber axle]

but either way

uptime is definitely the route to go for nerfing Voice of Command

how else would you nerf it?

because you'd have to literally change gold toughness as a mechanic to nerf it any other way

[tall torrent]

nah, 3.75s of gold toughness just is not worth +15s CD lol, would just put that 1 extra point elsewhere like getting a second +25 toughness node

[radiant chasm]

pskyer vent always goes down to soulblaze node

[bitter turtle]

that is just not true, psyker shield, shroudfield, bull charge, burst limit overdrive off the top of my head all have 2 tax pts

[idle pecan]

if everything is so weak other than voc maybe the other things need buffs?

[bitter turtle]

actually all 3 ogryn abilities cost 2 taxes

[old quail]

creeping flames lol

[tall torrent]

no because game is in power creep rn

[bitter turtle]

yeah shriek too

and gaze

actually

[tall torrent]

players are too strong

[last parcel]

i use shriek with damage

[bitter turtle]

its literally just voc and fotf that only has 1 pt tax

[last parcel]

oh wait that's still 2

[somber axle]

tbh even just dropping it to half the current duration would be enough for me

[sharp epoch]

And veteran has 4 subnodes on infiltrate and exe stance

[bitter turtle]

for infil, 2 of them are shit anyway

[somber axle]

without any CD change, even just halving the duration would be a very good nerf

[old quail]

bullrush u can kind of get away with just 1 for the toughness on charge (depending on weapon), taunt you basically have to get the +25% damage otherwise your ult is just kinda... worse bullrush

[bitter turtle]

same with exec anyway

[tall torrent]

half duration is a bit more reasonable, then it's still gold toughness always, revive only for trolling

[somber axle]

no one thinks almost perma uptime on gold toughness is balanced LOL

[bitter turtle]

team highlighting is actually a downside

[sharp epoch]

The subnodes on other classes are actually impactful

[bitter turtle]

uhh

i mean

refreshing ur exec is impactful

[somber axle]

highlight all ranged shooters + team highlight only

no refresh

[bitter turtle]

low profile is also doubling your stealth duration in a way

very impactful

[tall torrent]

I think VoC straight up should just not have gold toughness

[old quail]

PBB and shriek both have a mandatory bad node

[sharp epoch]

but its almost useless without the ranged highlight

[tall torrent]

replace it with TDR

[somber axle]

this would be a really good change I could get behind

[old quail]

chorus forces you to spend a point on an upgrade that should be baseline lol

[bitter turtle]

i dont rly understand your point anymore tbh

[dusky raven]

yall think this has potential for when the locks are removed?(and buffed)

[bitter turtle]

its literally a fact

that way more abilities have 2 taxes

than ones that have 1 tax

[old quail]

yes

[somber axle]

but Numbers Cat

would you make it stack that TDR with multiple VoC Vets?

and how much TDR?

[old quail]

that's not even that bad atm although id probably want surgical instead of headhunter

[bitter turtle]

how strong or weak exec itself is is irrelevant to that part

2 pt tax under your abilitiy is normal

its just fotf and voc that are privileged

[old quail]

exe stance (preferably in a world where tactical awareness isnt cutting all the ult cdrs to like 1/3rd of their listed value) could probably use a duration buff

[tall torrent]

40% TDR (x0.6), stacks only once from receiving buff (no stacking from multiple veterans), lasts 10s

[somber axle]

I would love a duration buff to Exe Stance

but tbh

[bitter turtle]

rly i would be happy if they jsut fucking moved stockpile even without a nerf to voc

[old quail]

if it lasted longer and didn't drop on swap you could at least somewhat make a case you don't need relentless

[somber axle]

it needs to a buff to make it not turn off when swapping to melee, grabbed by a mutie, netted by a trapper, pounced by a hound, etc.

[radiant chasm]

i'd rather exe stance just be allowed to swap weapons

[bitter turtle]

its so feelsbad when i literally save 1 pt going voc lol

[somber axle]

even if an ally saves you before the duration is up

the ability auto-turns off

[bitter turtle]

when im going smokes and ms aura

[radiant chasm]

don't drop on swap+ node for instant reload

[old quail]

any enemy stagger that holsters your weapon turning exe stance off is so infuriating

a cspawn can run up behind you with like no sound cue and force you to drop exe stance

insanity

[tall torrent]

40% TDR means max close order + iron will + this 40% TDR allows u to tank crusher overhead with 160+ toughness and not down (but unlike gold toughness, u'll still take health dmg)

[last parcel]

better not revive my teammate so i can maintain executioner's stance

[radiant chasm]

they have the technology now to keep ranged and melee buffs separate so no reason to block vets from swapping to melee

[somber axle]

I hate it so much and idk why they leave this as is and removed the auto-reload on Exe Stance use but leave Voice of Command as is

it's just bizarre

I'm unsure if Fatshark even considers Voice of Command imbalanced in its current state given the radio silence on it

it might be working as intended for them

[topaz lance]

Exe needs to trigger WS.
Exe should stay up for three seconds even if you swap to melee and back.
If they really want to buff it, make the refresh node part of the main node.
ALl it really needs imo

[radiant chasm]

VoC i'm guessing is like smite

bad players run it

mercy mains

healers

etc

and drag the winrate down

[old quail]

it's true

[somber axle]

but Ronald I'm a healer in other games and I don't run it

[old quail]

i've literally never met a good plasma shout vet

all of the ones i get in pubs are just terrible

and normally ragequit when they go down

[sharp epoch]

Exe is bad cause its just node tax it should highlight shooters and refresh already

[somber axle]

give Executioner's Stance a subnode to let me execute a downed friendly player to give myself a buff

[old quail]

i would rather it highlight ogryn enemies baseline and the shooters be an upgrade

[somber axle]

I'm here to execute

[radiant chasm]

cause they don't realize "support" abilities are just there to make killing more effective and not to build your identity around being a fucking backpack for the team

[old quail]

i dont really want visual clutter on an exe stance bolter build

[tall torrent]

exe's problem is multitude
bad pathing: 5% reload (nobody cares) + killzone (meh) / opening salvo (bad)
and the ability itself is underwhelming most of the time

[last parcel]

extra buff for using a bolt pistol
even mroe of a buff if you use the execution blessing

[sharp epoch]

Exe stance is supposed to be the anti-special/shooter build tho

[radiant chasm]

one or the other baseline, you don't want an fotf situation where the base pick is bloated

it's anti human sized special/elite baseline, trash shooters should remain a node

[old quail]

it highlights human sized elites/specials baseline

[tall torrent]

exe stance doesn't give u bodyshot breakpoints like pre-patch13

[old quail]

the damage buff it provides is also least relevant to shooters in most cases because their hp is so low

[somber axle]

the Gunlugger Ogryn eating all the ammo better be careful he never goes down around me...

Because I'll run right over with my Boltpistol and || save || him

[topaz lance]

Making the reresh baseline is a good idea imo. Substantial buff but in no way OP

helps with the point cost

[sharp epoch]

And add ogryns to the base highlight or make the ogryn node give extra damage along with highlight

[somber axle]

tbh I think grenade regen is also a bit too strong

delete demo stockpile

change demo team to 3% chance

[tall torrent]

I think exe stance should give a TDR buff or toughness gain multiplier, tbh

[somber axle]

[old quail]

see ive never understood this point when confirmed kill exists

[sharp epoch]

demo team needs buff since it doesnt give teammates grenades anymore

[old quail]

unless you're super hardcore competing for every kill toughness itself isn't the issue

[somber axle]

Fatshark fears frag grenade Ogryns given infinite frags LOL

[tall torrent]

the issue is that exe actually does not allow u to tank shooters on ur own without ET/ghost

[somber axle]

can you IMAGINE giving an Ogryn the whole ammo crate with field improv active for 4 more frags??

[sharp epoch]

i think the point is that vet should be able to tank at least some ranged fire in order to deal with shooters with exe stance

[coral willow]

field improv kinda does something similar lolz

[last parcel]

my poor poor fps

[old quail]

wait so what does this solve then

[topaz lance]

That would be a huuuge buff.
I am ok with a more cautious approch for now honestly.
WS, weapon swap and make refresh baseline. Sounds way better already to me.

[old quail]

because tdr isn't actually helping

nor is a toughness gain multiplier

[somber axle]

me hoarding the ammo crate with field improv and telling the Ogryn to eat when the rest of the team isn't looking so he can show up tomorrow telling the commissar he ate the whole box of grenades

[old quail]

because the issue here is toughness gen vs shootouts with stuff not covered by confirmed kill

[coral willow]

30 gunners trying to ambush you
ogryn with frag:

[tall torrent]

this bumps ET's value to at least match CK when ur popping multi headshots so u just go ET starter and forget abt CK

[coral willow]

its wierd that the

[tall torrent]

because CK is better than ET most of the time

[old quail]

doesn't ET already have baked in tdr on stack

[pearl granite]

Lucky me. Now just need manstopper

[coral willow]

marksman is still the only keystone in vet that doesnt havr some kind of dtamina regen

when it has deadshot

[last parcel]

not if i have anything to do with it

[old quail]

you'd be getting less percentage return by doing that since it'd be multiplicative (unless the devs are deranged)

[coral willow]

smh

[old quail]

especially when u factor in the practically mandatory iron will

[tall torrent]

yes, give exe some kind of toughness gain multi so ET gets more toughness

[somber axle]

Give Executioner's Stance a duration buff (5 sec to 6 sec) and make refresh baseline. Add in a new meme node that highlights groaners and poxwalkers because it'd be funny for DAKKA weapons spraying into hordes

[old quail]

i don't think this issue solves anything fundamental with exe stance

[coral willow]

[old quail]

you already get a shit ton of tdr, a bunch of weapons will hit multiple enemies in one shot or will rapid fire and rack up ranged toughness super fast

i've never had an issue with shooters unless i was playing something like exe stance bolter with only confirmed kill and because of your ammo economy you don't want to deal with shooters at ranged unless you're forced to

[coral willow]

i'd rather make the sharing baseline, and give exclusive options to activate-reload but cannot refresh or can refresh

[tall torrent]

a shit ton of TDR is close order + iron will + ET at the same time, but most exe don't take CK + ET

[somber axle]

YES OHMYGOSH TROLLING ASIDE PLEASE MAKE REFRESH BASELINE AND GIVE A NODE FOR RELOAD ON USE

[topaz lance]

Well I think it is kind of an issue that it is practically mandatory.

[tall torrent]

no ET = needs ghost to tank shooters if ur gonna shoot them

[coral willow]

i think refresh baseline and reload node might be traumatic to

fatshark

so make it either refresh or reload

[old quail]

out for blood is also 5% and just generically good in all situations

[coral willow]

ill take 30 rnd bolter every 30 seconds tbh

[somber axle]

bring back Boltgun double magdump please

PLEASE

I'M BEGGING

[old quail]

50% tdr from iron will is already on the very high side of things

[coral willow]

me not using iron will:

[tall torrent]

and it's still not as good as CK

[old quail]

i'd also have to ask how many times you're fighting... purely shooters

with minimal elites/specials

[coral willow]

out for blood being a better node that what zealot gets in the middle tree

is fucking halarious

[tall torrent]

yea and somehow that's still worse than CK

[coral willow]

that too lmfao

[old quail]

i'm not trying to do the "do you even auric bro" thing but i find there's a pretty consistent stream of targets that i can farm toughness off of, especially since with exe stance i can see exactly where they are before the rest of my team can

[tall torrent]

CK's problem is that CK stacks indefinitely

[coral willow]

ck stacks indefinitrly

and the elite doomstack stacks indefinitely

[bitter turtle]

ck doesnt have 5% movespeed on its path

useless

[coral willow]

and plasma can melt said doomstack in like 2 shot

[old quail]

+1 stam is huge

[tall torrent]

there's no stack cap on CK, u can have 6 stacks of CK going off at the same time

[old quail]

do not disrespect

[white minnow]

so true

[bitter turtle]

WORTHLESS

GOTTA GO FAST

[old quail]

smh

[last parcel]

ZOOM

ZOOM

ZOOOOOOOM

[white minnow]

also it doesn't help that we're in the era of elite/special spam

[coral willow]

you'd think aura would provide more than 5%

[tall torrent]

6 CK going off at the same time is 12% toughness every second on top of u killing things

[white minnow]

all elite/special-scaling talents eating good

[somber axle]

tbh I think they could also buff Exe Stance by making it so non-weak spot kills on highlight targets only give 4 sec additional duration (up to a cap) but weakspot kills give 8 sec duration (the cap is 8) so you're rewarded more for chaining headshots and the additional duration gives more time to offset weapons with longer reloads

[old quail]

we should go back to 25%/25% confirmed kill

[bitter turtle]

im talking about the basic node

not the aura

the aura is good too though

[coral willow]

i think if CK was in era where elites wasnt spammed

[somber axle]

play more into the Sharpshooter theme

[bitter turtle]

running both lets u casually outwalk a horde

[coral willow]

it might have been remotely balanced

but as of right now

busted

[white minnow]

the based +10% movespd vet

[proper delta]

Has anyone mentioned running boltpistol with run and gun / lethal proximity on weapons specialist vet yet

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

[coral willow]

running into the night i see

[bitter turtle]

casually walking away from horde

[coral willow]

does that work after

the groaner buff

[bitter turtle]

well

[coral willow]

they move like zealots now

[bitter turtle]

those are bruisers

so idk

[coral willow]

[bitter turtle]

either way

10% movespeed goated

[old quail]

i am so sad the boltpistol doesn't hit the oshs breakpoint on flamers without agile engagement/a crit/keystone buff

[white minnow]

you better WORK for it

[bitter turtle]

puncture

#veteran-class message

[old quail]

i am not touching that blessing

[bitter turtle]

:^)

[tall torrent]

Yes, it’s just that when u start fighting shooters first (who wear ur toughness down) then u fight elite spawns, it gets a lot worse for exe stance compared to VoC/infil and this definitely happens

[bitter turtle]

no crit needed

[last parcel]

stay losing

[proper delta]

It might with puncture?

[tall torrent]

Exe stance doesn’t have a way to immediately gain toughness back for when 6 shotgunners come around a corner and blast ur toughness to shreds in 2 hits

[old quail]

i feel like shooters are incredibly easy to gank if they're the first thing you engage because they spawn in very vulnerable positions the majority of the time

[fresh mango]

man

[old quail]

also if ur getting hit simultaneously by 6 shotgunners im pretty sure you are just dead

[sharp epoch]

I think ogryn and zealot could eat that easily

[uncut pebble]

Be a man, hand that to hadron and pray to the omnissiah.

[tall torrent]

On a weapon with ghost it’s no problem, but without ghost it’s kinda not fun for anti-shooter

[old quail]

what weapons are we qualifying for this role

[fresh mango]

Sah yes sah!

[tall torrent]

Like, helbore anti-shooter toughness management is way worse than laspistol/infantry lasgun

[fresh mango]

[old quail]

yeah thats fair but thats also kind of just like part of the weapon especially for the heavier variants

in the situation where the issue is a toughness gain/dr modifier you still haven't solved the "oh shit" issue of getting blasted by 6 shotgunners and losing your toughness bar

[proper delta]

I’m gonna come back tomorrow with a video of this goddamn sprinting aoe stagger bolt pistol and then you’ll all be convinced

[tall torrent]

Maybe just exe stance itself giving like, a portion of total toughness back on activation?

Not a lot

[old quail]

yeah i could see that

[tall torrent]

25%? Idk

[old quail]

cuz then you'd have an immediate but small barrier to getting destroyed by ranged fire

[white minnow]

so basically the old sustained fire for exe's stance

[old quail]

you'd probably have to make something like that an upgrade node

[tall torrent]

Or if I wanna get crazier

[faint beacon]

@uncut pebble that match with my friend really just enlightened me on how ridiculously overtuned the shooters are now

[old quail]

sustained fire was like 75% on top of unwavering focus lol

[tall torrent]

Make it really small, but proc off every single refresh

Like, 5%, but every time u refresh it goes off

[fresh mango]

Honestly I dont think shooters are that bad

[old quail]

they punish bad decision making more than anything i feel

[faint beacon]

We got killed so quickly by them it’s extremely irritating

[proper delta]

Shioters aren’t that bad if you’re not standing out in the middle of nowhere

[fresh mango]

Can absolutely feel the increase but its more like, punishing a mistake you make

[old quail]

i only really get fucked if i do something i know i shouldnt

[faint beacon]

I kept getting swarmed and there was nothing I could really do

[fresh mango]

If anything, I might finally get to use a smoke nade build

[tall torrent]

Post-buff scab shooter will hit u with 33 dmg per shot with deadly accuracy once ur toughness is down

[old quail]

tbf everything hits like a brick once ur toughness is down

[fresh mango]

Truthfully just shoot them

[white minnow]

toughness stackers continuing to eat good

[faint beacon]

They shred toughness that’s my issue

[tall torrent]

No, scab shooter specifically cuz they don’t have toughness dmg multi

[coral willow]

tbh bad decision being walking into a room then yes

least zealot can get away

[old quail]

you keep saying this shit but any time i tell you anything you can do to mitigate that you just say it doesn't work

[coral willow]

feel like with ogryn im just naked

[proper delta]

Dip duck dive and dodge

[old quail]

this is a you issue specifically

[faint beacon]

I literally did lmao

Still died

[tall torrent]

they have ~equal toughness dmg but scab shooter hits way harder on health

[coral willow]

im seeing vets who get dumped on shooters even with VoC on our community this isnt just my issue
though it actually might be skill issue, who knows

[tall torrent]

I mean u guys unironically run lacerate so like

[old quail]

yeah maybe if you stand still and don't regenerate any toughness

[fresh mango]

getting dumped with VoC is a genuine skill issue

[white minnow]

they are what we call pubbers

[old quail]

you still have iron will

you have close order drill

[faint beacon]

Bro I’m not one to massively complain about this shit at all I’ve just been noticing way too much these shooters just dropping people extremely quickly

[old quail]

ogryn in particular has massive suppression on basically every gun

you just shoot at the guys you want to stop firing

[fresh mango]

You know what bugs me

[old quail]

kickback will put a gunner on its ass at any distance lmao

(not to mention shooters)

[coral willow]

i gurss

[fresh mango]

For The Emperor doesnt proc when infilitrate runs out

[tall torrent]

I feel we gotta test the +50% ranged suppression node in vet tree in live matches some time and see how much it actually shuts down shooters

[proper delta]

Have you tried going invisible when shit hits the fan? And simply leaving? You don’t have to consent to getting owned by shooters you can just say no

[coral willow]

cant shoot 360 and

[tall torrent]

It was pretty funny in testing vs gunners

[old quail]

if shooters are surrounding you, you have fucked up

massively

that's a player issue entirely

figure it out

[faint beacon]

I mean I’m running Exe and trying to snipe them but keep getting swarmed?

[coral willow]

any room i enter becomes this anyway lol cause you usally get boxed in from behind

[white minnow]

unga bunga positioning

[fresh mango]

also Volley Adept locked behind Longshot

How dare they

[coral willow]

zealot's doing fine after i learn to dodge more strict

well fineish

[white minnow]

my brother in christ where are the ranged enemies from behind coming from
are you just not dealing with them before you head into the next area or are you running into the middle of the open

[old quail]

without any further additional info i can only conclude you are doing something massively wrong or not elimiating threats fast enough

maybe if you ignore enemies and hold W into ambients

and then end up pulling them

[tall torrent]

I think exe stance just has to run with a gun that has ghost rn (so u don’t need ET to tank shooter ever)

Besides Boltgun ig

[proper delta]

Did you know vets can crouch behind cover and then ads over it so you can shoot at stuff and not get owned?

[coral willow]

probably latter with the mix of former i assume

[faint beacon]

Fucking seems so at this point

[tall torrent]

I’ve never seen anyone actually use that function ever tbh

[coral willow]

lotta reports about the issue over here

[last parcel]

i do that like once a month lol

[faint beacon]

For the love of god I literally did all the shit you guys are talking about

[tall torrent]

It’s just better to sprint/slide and avoid gunfire

[old quail]

there's a bunch of people complaining about the shooter changes in the english-speaking community as well, but when they post gameplay they'll be doing shit like standing still to take a shooter salvo and then eating an entire rager combo

[white minnow]

i'm pretty sure that it's just by people who have never paid attention to their positioning before and are actually getting punished for it

[tall torrent]

If veteran could like
Auto side-lean on wall around corners with that trait
Then yea maybe that’ll get used more

But srsly I’ve never seen anyone ever use the cover peeking trait on veteran

[old quail]

there has to be a contingent who are coming back for the patch and just playing poorly as well. a bunch of people are complaining about gunners being changed even though theyre not any different

[proper delta]

Cover peeking goes hard as fuck if you’re trying to not get surrounded running exe stance just saying

[old quail]

and the rate is too high for it to be confusing gunners and shooters

[proper delta]

Can’t get surrounded if you’re behind a goddamn wall

[fresh mango]

What should i swap out here?

[old quail]

ouch

[faint beacon]

Gunners are completely fine I’m just noticing the shooters are really dumb lately

[faint beacon]

That’s a brick

[coral willow]

idk, cant engage shooters while im comitted to a rager takedown and said shooter just rolls up while im dealing with the ragers and shoots me
i know you can dodge strict to dodge their gunfilre while focusing on melee but you probably spend said doges on ragers already.

[tall torrent]

We need to test the +50% suppression node in live matches one day

[fresh mango]

no that’s a gun

[old quail]

if you're worried about overcommitting to meleeing ragers you just shoot them

[radiant chasm]

Don’t overspend dodges

[proper delta]

Why r u out in front with the ragers homie

[radiant chasm]

Like biggest tip for general gameplay

[coral willow]

expecting a pub vet or psyker to actually engage in shooters while i protect them from ragers with melee is basically a moot point over here

[white minnow]

melee enemies are also going to push you faster than ranged enemies

[coral willow]

why do you shoot ragers

[faint beacon]

Dreg ragers are really damn dangerous now?

[jaunty fiber]

Oof, yeah nah I'm done for now. damnation is too much for my rusty ass

[radiant chasm]

Alright i will say some yall, ragers get in your face sometime sshit happens especially in pubs

[old quail]

because its oftentimes just easier to kill them at range

[jaunty fiber]

This is the least fun I've had with this game for a long time.

[tall torrent]

Ever heard of the “bringing a gun to a knife fight” saying

[faint beacon]

Like you’ll get destroyed now if you’re even in melee range near them so you have to immediately shoot them

[jaunty fiber]

Bro, ragers are fucking WILD now

[fresh mango]

bring devil claw if ragers are constantly in your face

[old quail]

like ranged combat in this game is by default safer in most scenarios

[radiant chasm]

The point is that you should not run out of dodges besides if you are a psword user or something

[faint beacon]

Scab ragers are the old easy ones

[tall torrent]

I literally do not bother engaging Dreg rager groups in melee now

[coral willow]

this game doesnt have the ICBM gambit

[faint beacon]

Dregs will kill you

[jaunty fiber]

The flak ones are the same kind of spooky but the other ones really are wildly fast now they're a menace.

[tall torrent]

8 dreg ragers with the atk speed buff is something

[old quail]

if you're spamming dodges on ragers and getting punished you could also just bring a weapon that staggers them

[radiant chasm]

It’s just dreg ragers are faster lol

[coral willow]

i do it 24/7 even with the rager buffs it's a 50/50 still

[faint beacon]

Dreg rager groups will kill you

[jaunty fiber]

Yeah those

They are terrifying

[old quail]

like shock maul with falter/hammerblow

[coral willow]

but heres the thing, they recover way faster from stagger now

[radiant chasm]

Or just dont spam dodges ugh i miss pre nerf cspawn teaching the lesson to all these idiots

Okay

[proper delta]

I got the make every shot count penance today with a knife and 17 rezzes getting owned by shooters is simply surmountable

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s just plasma to the face or frag be upon ye

[jaunty fiber]

I had to dance with one in that last mission with a branx on my ogryn, that was NOT fun

[coral willow]

so ogryns push just kinda gets eaten

[radiant chasm]

Take a breath, and learn to dodge minimally

Play like a rhythm game

It’s a dance not a button smasher

[tall torrent]

They don’t

[coral willow]

and the pickaxes barely deal with ragers with spending ton of dodges

[tall torrent]

Stagger didn’t get changed for ragers

They have faster combo chain, they don’t have faster stagger recovery

[coral willow]

if not then the attack speed changes make them look like they recover faster from light stagger from ogryn pushes

[jaunty fiber]

You can space a rager with a couple of dodges and then backpedal for a bit to keep distance

[radiant chasm]

Once you get your dodge panic under control you can solo crusher packs if given enough time

[radiant chasm]

Lol what

[jaunty fiber]

That's what I had to do with the one I was tangling with

They're fast but they take a couple swings to gap-close

[radiant chasm]

Ogryn only needs to dodge back to get his heavy or push attack off with pickaxe

[old quail]

they dumpster scab ragers across the board. dreg ragers are a bit trickier but still manageable

https://streamable.com/dap7k9

[coral willow]

its either a hit or miss imho
you engage it fairly first and hit the HA, good
otherwise the 3 ragers can say goodbye to your toughness

[radiant chasm]

Once the first stagger goes through it’s over ogryn won

[coral willow]

also we dont talk about scab ragers

[radiant chasm]

Well stop fuckin missin

[coral willow]

they dont exist

[jaunty fiber]

I don't advise trying to run with a branx pick against those

[faint beacon]

It’s a weird yes and no cause I’ve had them immediately Start sprinting again, but it usually gives you enough time to shoot them

[jaunty fiber]

It's possible but man is it awkward

[coral willow]

cant hit all 3 whne they come in the worst intervals

[radiant chasm]

Branx pick is fine it’s just odd

[jaunty fiber]

Well the sprint leave them open

[coral willow]

its slow

[old quail]

pickaxes also do really well with bruiser + bullrush because the aoe stagger is v nice for ragers

[coral willow]

i think its a great melee

just slow lol

[jaunty fiber]

Yeah, the slowness of that one is something you have to really play around

It's fantastic

[radiant chasm]

Ive handled entire rager packs with my branx

[tall torrent]

And ogryn of all classes should have the LEAST amount of concern with ragers
Literally all 3 of ur abilities wipe elite hordes easily, and u have multiple tools that deal with mixed hordes extremely well
Rock still 1 taps Dreg ragers
Rumbler does AoE stagger
Kickback can 1 tap them
Stubbers with PBB melts them easily
Bull rush & taunt both make for very long stagger & easy kills

[coral willow]

problem is, with that slowness
a shooter shooting at you(a singular one) can say goodbye to your life

[jaunty fiber]

You can onetap a crusher with a full charge and thrust, it's fucking nuts. But boy do you have to earn that

[radiant chasm]

It’s not that hard it just requires brain power

Well yea that’s the shooter issue

Not the rager issue

Anyways this is vet chat

[old quail]

with slaught/heavy hitter up and cara/elites your lights three-shot crushers

which is insane lmao

[radiant chasm]

Unless you are running psword you should not run out of dodges fighting ragers

[jaunty fiber]

Yeah, I don't hate it at all but I'm not good with that one yet

[coral willow]

im fine with ragers, just annoyed at how they're impossible to deal when comitted to an meleeing ragers and then some shooter rolls around and dumps your toughness

[radiant chasm]

If you do, you are panic dodging and that’s a bad habit

[old quail]

it's a very awkward weapon even once you're comfortable

[jaunty fiber]

I'm gonna fish for a borovian so I can like....breathe lmao

[radiant chasm]

Just dodge

[old quail]

borovian is nice

[tall torrent]

Karsolas is the way, trust

[jaunty fiber]

But first I need to actually finish a mission

[coral willow]

i am running out of one engaging with 3 of them sequentially

[radiant chasm]

If you have psword, that’s the trade off

[faint beacon]

I really don’t have an issue with any enemy this update minus the shooters cause I’ve just noticed they fucking destroy toughness and are extremely quick to shoot you

That’s just my opinion

[jaunty fiber]

I wanna try that one too but I need a better stubber

[coral willow]

unless im rashad cause PA stuns them yay

[faint beacon]

But everything else I’m fine with

[jaunty fiber]

The boro is evenhanded

[radiant chasm]

Yea you are panic dodging im sure of it

[tall torrent]

Ykw next time u play run the +50% suppression talent and tell me how it goes, I’m curious if it actually helps vs shooters

[jaunty fiber]

And I've been having shit luck with this new mission so I'm going back down to malice to farm dockets

[faint beacon]

I also don’t understand why people are gaslighting themselves into thinking gunners are buffed?????

My brother in Christ they’ve always been like this lmao

[coral willow]

i probably am ye
even then you engaging multiple ragers sequencially(as in, you take 1 rager, got to like 25% health, 2nd rager comws to join, kill the first rager and 2nd rager goes down to 25%, and 3rd rager)

[jaunty fiber]

It's just this new mission. they're all over in wide open spaces so they have the potential for nasty firing lines there

[tall torrent]

Rashad vs dreg rager wave is not that good rn purely because u only get to hit 3 with max Headtaker stacks and the stagger doesn’t last long enough before they combo u to death

[faint beacon]

I honestly might seeing at this point it might really be a saving grace against them

[tall torrent]

Rashad vs 1~2 dreg ragers is cool tho

[coral willow]

i take maniac

they are good with it

[radiant chasm]

Once you are in the high diffs and have the game down it’s all about improving your fundamentals

[tall torrent]

Maniac perk does not make u hit more of them at once

[faint beacon]

Like I kid you not gunners can be bad obviously right, the shooters you should worry about more now

[coral willow]

i know, but least it can make me swing less on singular one

[radiant chasm]

One of which, the best skill increase for me back during pre nerf chaos spawn beating people’s ass

[coral willow]

can do up to 3 ragers at me at once and after that i'd just thro knives

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it even changes breakpoints on veteran

[radiant chasm]

Is to not panic dodge, dodge only has you need and focus on individual timing and distance

[coral willow]

its zealot marty

changes bp

[proper delta]

Slide up to the shooters and stab them in the face problem solved

[faint beacon]

Honestly Dreg ragers now remind me of Pre fix ragers and I’ve already dealt with

[coral willow]

ragers are fine tbh

[proper delta]

Slide away from the ragers and stab them in the face

[coral willow]

im not sure why scab ragers are even more pathetic now

[old quail]

scab ragers are kinda just sad atm

[faint beacon]

Scab ragers wish they were Dreg ragers

[old quail]

i think they should swap the stagger resists on them

[jaunty fiber]

What you want those to be faster too?

[faint beacon]

Honestly

Yeah no I agree with you

[old quail]

i feel like intuitively the naked dude is probably easier to put on the ground than the guy wearing armor

[coral willow]

cant wait for them to buff it by giving the chest area of scab rager into carapace lmfao

[faint beacon]

Dregs should be extremely fast but easy to stagger and Scabs should be hard to stagger

[coral willow]

fits the moevian anyway

[old quail]

and then dreg ragers are more "glass cannon" speedy attack guys and the scab ragers are kind of a slower but harder to interrupt counterpart

[proper delta]

Really easy to knock over guys in armor that stuff is heavy as shit

[jaunty fiber]

The naked dude can take your arm off before you pull the trigger now

[coral willow]

yes

but he used to have gomugomu arms

[tall torrent]

I think they’re ok cuz they still have 10 mass to block cleave for a lot of weapons

[coral willow]

better than that, you can still dodge his ass

[faint beacon]

I think if we’re making ragers more scary just

Make scabs harder to stagger

[coral willow]

if you wanna make scab rager scary

[old quail]

my problem is that this is the role of maulers

[coral willow]

make it carapace

[old quail]

and basically every build has some way of shitting out flak damage

so scab ragers just kinda die instantly anyways

i don't think the hitmass niche is enough to make them an equal threat with dregs

[faint beacon]

That and you don’t really see them often or is that just me

[old quail]

depends on your run iirc

[faint beacon]

See dregs hell of a lot more

[coral willow]

i dont even recognize scab ragers existing

thats how rare they are

maulers fill the map

not ragers

[old quail]

the ai director can get set "factions" for ambients and whatnot that weight heavier towards dregs or scabs

[tall torrent]

Kind of yes, kind of no
Because most attacks that can stagger them don’t hit more than 1 of them

[coral willow]

does dreg have lower hitmass

i rememebr hitting like 2~3 dreg ragers with rashad PA

[tall torrent]

Much lower, at 4

[coral willow]

huh

[tall torrent]

Rashad PA is 8 cleave

[coral willow]

thats why

[tall torrent]

So u hit 2

If u have headtaker stacks (any), u can hit 3

[coral willow]

idk why i think i hit 3

ok hesdtaker it is

you pa and blow their heads off with maniac rashad with marty

how hard would it be if scab ragers have their chest area changed to carapace

[old quail]

i don't necessarily think this is true? for weapon specials, yeah

[tall torrent]

Nah

[old quail]

rashad pa doesn't

saul sweeps/psword does

scab ragers are also impacted the same way from any aoe stagger like ults or explosions

[tall torrent]

Power sword hits 2 without sunder

[tall torrent]

Ykw, don’t change their stagger resist, but make them recover from stagger faster than dreg

[faint beacon]

I mean it would make them harder to kill if you idfk don’t aim for the head like every Darktide player does

[tall torrent]

If they’re supposed to be the “armored & combat trained + stimmed up” variant

They prob should recover from stagger faster

Than some random dude getting juiced by stims

[old quail]

yeah maybe, but then you'd also likely need to decrease dreg stagger recovery time to compensate otherwise it'd be hard to notice unless you've put them on the floor

[tall torrent]

Or maybe just raise their health idk

[old quail]

a problem i think is that a lot of weapons just do too good into flak

[radiant chasm]

Dreg ragers on that drug rage

[old quail]

so having armor isn't really an upside for enemies in most cases

[faint beacon]

I mean that would work but I’m for stagger resistance cause it’s fucking flak armor

You could take a blow and be less impacted vs the guy with 0 armor

[coral willow]

least brauto to chest can be countered

[tall torrent]

This one is tricky

Because you’d get into territory where attacks that previously could stagger now wouldn’t

And that’s a pretty important line to draw

[faint beacon]

To be fair they swing slow

[old quail]

i also think ragers should globally have some sort of counter by blocking

or more weapons should do stuff on perfect block to mitigate ragers

[faint beacon]

You could very much time melees and dodging

[bitter turtle]

their offensive is already functionally identical to crushers

no need to make their defense also identical

[tall torrent]

Ykw
Fuck all this stagger resist & stagger recovery
Just give them reduced dmg taken from ranged attacks

U said the problem is that they get blasted too much

[old quail]

they had reduced headshot damage and then they removed it 😔

[coral willow]

tbh i think just not having the darktide's unique long ass guard break animation would suffice idk

[tall torrent]

No I mean flat out like x0.75 ranged dmg taken

[old quail]

that's not a terrible idea

[coral willow]

mini crusher is nice, especially one that runs at you lol

[faint beacon]

Honestly they used too I think they buffed their stamina drain I’m unsure

I recall you used to just be able to block and then dodge backwards and you’re fine

[coral willow]

besides

[radiant chasm]

Maybe instead of vt2 perfect block

[faint beacon]

Blocking now is extremely risky cause you can get hit with a stagger from losing your stamina

[coral willow]

whatever damage resis you give it its probably gonna be 2shot to the chest

[radiant chasm]

What if dt gets perfect push

[faint beacon]

How would that work exactly?…

[radiant chasm]

Timed block makes your push and push attack more effective on allw eapons obv

It is 2am do not take this ideas serious

Sierously

[faint beacon]

Lmao

[radiant chasm]

Im still

[faint beacon]

I was about to say like

[old quail]

having a mechanic that generically supports timed push attack trading would be fun

[faint beacon]

I’m sorry to burst your bubble but Ogryn enemies exist

[radiant chasm]

Think they should give the whc bonus to everyone in a small amount

[tall torrent]

I still wish they spawned less Dreg ragers

[radiant chasm]

Cause im sick of auric damng ames where teammayes only ping at most 3 enemies

Nah fuck it

Make game harder

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[faint beacon]

Though to be fair you can block bulwarks swings

[radiant chasm]

Make players weaker

I overcome

[somber axle]

Gale and I got ambushed by like 20

I want 40 next time

[radiant chasm]

Make lmayers lets fucking stupid

[somber axle]

can we get a mode that replaces all groaners/poxwalkers with Ragers

[tall torrent]

At that point it’s just a matter of 2 frags

[faint beacon]

Instant wipe

[radiant chasm]

Ahhs i que auric with ping unbound

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/that-was-only-round-one-general-hawk-gi-joe-a-real-american-hero-arise-serpentor-arise-part-one-gif-17522153

Wolfer on the comms

[faint beacon]

Look I have an issue with shooters and just a super small issue with Dreg ragers which is literally just stamina drain on block that’s it

[elder fiber]

people are complaining that trash shooters are more dangerous than elite gunners

[faint beacon]

Everything else is fine

[elder fiber]

obv time to buff elite gunners

[somber axle]

can we get 40 gunners too

[tall torrent]

Yea demo team proc once, ready for round 2

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/captain-america-i-can-do-this-all-day-marvel-gif-14017033

AI director ready to keep spamming

[tall torrent]

U need to see the suppression testing vid I did

[radiant chasm]

It truly is the 40k experience where an entire regiment of lasguns makes you shit yourself

[faint beacon]

I seriously do not know how they could “Fix” the shooters at the moment cause I do like the idea of them punishing people on HP

not toughness

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1257077808644096132/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.06.30_-_16.57.35.12.mp4?ex=668469f0&is=66831870&hm=2bb24fc410336bead7c23ea854663ed08fae847269029d507c8fb3d943caa7b8&

[radiant chasm]

(Unless you have ghost or empathetic evasion)

[proper delta]

There is nothing to fix

[faint beacon]

Just holy shit they destroy toughness in like a nano second and they have extreme accuracy

[somber axle]

the update was targeted as trying to make suppression a more attractive option and they explicitly say this in the patch notes too

but like

no one wants to suppress targets

[radiant chasm]

Suppression is the icing you get to targets you havent killed yet xd

[faint beacon]

People prefer killing over suppressing

[tall torrent]

That’s simple, give them <1x toughness dmg multi

[somber axle]

non-elite shooters now spend twice as long hiding in cover when suppressed

they also fire more often when out of cover

[proper delta]

I prefer living to not using game mechanics

[faint beacon]

Suppose I have to completely redo my builds for suppress

[radiant chasm]

Even with survivalist there is not enough ammo in this game to waste ammo suppressing

[tall torrent]

Except this doesn’t actually work

[somber axle]

it does for funny weapons that benefit from suppression

[radiant chasm]

I mean you can suppress targets by killing their friends near them

[somber axle]

you can spray enemies and watch them cower or flee to cover

[radiant chasm]

So

[tall torrent]

No, I can show u rn

https://youtu.be/ioYzap075OE

[radiant chasm]

Why spray when you can just aim

[somber axle]

your mistake is trying to suppress using plasma

do it with something automatic

or even just like

an infantry lasgun

[radiant chasm]

Stalkers are also pretty hardy vs suppression

Scab stalkers specifically

[proper delta]

You do not need to consent to any AI director behavior in this game just say no

[somber axle]

Plasma is literally not a weapon meant for suppression so it cannot do it effectively

[faint beacon]

That’s probably fine, I just think it’s wild Ogryns are getting fucking chewed up

[tall torrent]

Plasma does very high suppression

[faint beacon]

By shooters and like small amounts of them

[radiant chasm]

Look the ai director in the eyes and say “harder”

[tall torrent]

On a lower suppression gun you don’t even properly suppress them in 1 shot

[somber axle]

and does it worse than automatic weapons too

[tall torrent]

No lol

[somber axle]

yes lemme record

[tall torrent]

Plasma suppresses groups in 1 shot

[somber axle]

I'm hopping into Darktide

it's time to share the fun of spray and pray

[proper delta]

Finally someone posting receipts

[fresh mango]

new annoyance, people splitting up on the final mission part

please stick together

[faint beacon]

I’ll probably make a more suppressed focused build later see if that does anything

[bitter turtle]

no

[somber axle]

suppression as a more attractive mechanic is partially why Recon Mk VId is still very useful!

spray fast

[radiant chasm]

Idk why this is even a convo

Yall ened to clarify and keep it 100 that suppression is not something you should be directoy going for

It is a bonus, icing, cherry on top to being good at ranged combat by fucking killing people

[bitter turtle]

wdym

i miss on purpose to suppress

[radiant chasm]

Cause iwas going to lose my mind with that one person coming into zealot chat and he was literally suppressing enemies by spraying over their heads

[bitter turtle]

i do it because i thin kits amusing

[proper delta]

I’ll admit sometimes I fire a few warning shots before Iget into face stabbing range

[old quail]

that dude was a fucking legend

he was committed

[somber axle]

Suppressing Reapers is so fun though!

They do that little animation trying to hide behind their arm LOL

[radiant chasm]

He was sliding directly towards enemies and would not take “if you just aim and kill some, you get the same effect”

[radiant chasm]

The warning shot is for the survivors 🙂

[faint beacon]

I can see shooting a few rounds to make them be suppressed to be fine if there’s a massive group but they like

Actively only suppressed that’s it

[proper delta]

I run the bolt pistol to warn the entire group at once that they’re about to be stabbed

I am but a humble ranged class using my ranged weapon

[old quail]

it's actually worse because a lot of guns have suppression on kill that also applies

[radiant chasm]

Yep

[old quail]

so ur directly harming ur own suppression in a lot of cases

but hey. that dude had a goal in mind and he was very set on it

i respect it

[proper delta]

Once you can’t get hit by the bullets you gotta make your own fun

[bitter turtle]

im currently conversing with someone who says double barrel shotgun oneshotting maulers "seem simpossible to reproduce"

[somber axle]

here you go

[bitter turtle]

i dont understand

[radiant chasm]

Like if suppression straight up didn’t work

If the bullets land on a target

[old quail]

do they know about the brace

[radiant chasm]

But you get suppression from kills

[bitter turtle]

idk its a redditor

[somber axle]

Yeah you can actively shoot at and kill something and still suppress targets around the thing you're hitting

[old quail]

maybe u need +flak for it consistently idk

but idk about impossible to reproduce lmao

[bitter turtle]

they said

[somber axle]

This is most noticeable when firing an automatic weapon with good suppression into crowds of Reapers

[proper delta]

I’m convinced the double shot does less damage until sneaky cat posts video proof

[bitter turtle]

"seem simpossible to reproduce even with flak:'

[old quail]

wh

[bitter turtle]

let me clarify

i already told them to put flak on it

[somber axle]

while killing one Reaper you'll often see the whole pack of Reapers begin to cower

the same happens with shooters and gunners

[old quail]

i know it has worse falloff than the left click

[old quail]

amazing

i love redditors

[proper delta]

That might be it

[somber axle]

and shooters now spend much longer hiding before attempting to shoot back

suppression is more valuable

[old quail]

when ogryn FNP was additive tdr if you had enough sniper resist you could tank a sniper shot just to toughness with no setup

and i had a redditor tell me "you tanked 1 sniper shot, good job, now what?" as if you couldn't regenerate toughness

and then he shilled 2 stamina curio shield ogryn so you could block snipers

[bitter turtle]

honestly

when i see a shieldgryn

load in

im already iffy

and doubl e iffy if they start saying

[proper delta]

Shield is so fun tho

[bitter turtle]

hide behind me adn kill all the gunners"

[somber axle]

it makes it more valuable to a quickplay pug to either have someone dedicated to dealing with ranged trash safely (psyker bubble, smokes, Ghost Laspistol/Headhunter Autogun Vet, etc.) or someone who can suppress effectively (Twinstubber Ogryn, Recon Mk VId Vet, etc.)

[bitter turtle]

like i just know

they're gnona plant

[old quail]

if they have BM they probably know how to use it properly

[bitter turtle]

and do fuckin nothing

[proper delta]

Shield is for bashing

[old quail]

oh yeah always

[bitter turtle]

thank fuck

at least now

[old quail]

ogryn larpers are pretty much always useless

[bitter turtle]

i can shoot through them

[old quail]

u could before if u were based and agri iag pilled

[bitter turtle]

before it actually triggered me

when they walk thru me to """"protect"""" me

[old quail]

my favorite is those dudes who bring taunt shield and aggro poxwalkers

and think theyre helping

so glad you could assist with that. i regularly play the highest difficulty and still cannot handle basic trash

what a hero

[faint beacon]

Proceeds to nuke the poor glass cannon Psyker

[old quail]

i had one guy who was also using push taunt and spamming it on poxwalkers

[proper delta]

Taunt shield is fun it groups them all so you can bash them to death with Heavy attack

[faint beacon]

I’ve seen it happen a few times it’s depressing lmao

[somber axle]

Shieldgryns are the natural attempt from Ogryns trying to adapt to the more dangerous shooters/gunners. It's a bit silly but their heart is in the right place. They recognize that shooters/gunners are now much more dangerous and they're doing something they know can mitigate the damage output from them effectively

[old quail]

i mean

[somber axle]

at least it's better than Shieldgryns before

[bitter turtle]

you know what also mitigates them

[somber axle]

just planting for no reason

[old quail]

shield with taunt on block aggros whatever shooters you get hit by

and they immediate run into melee

[bitter turtle]

killing them

[old quail]

but it's also like 99% of the time just not necessary

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/arbiter-were-it-so-easy-halo-difficult-gif-16171194

[bitter turtle]

honest to god

i think its completely useless to stand there and shield block them

genuinely

like

if i wanted cover

[proper delta]

Sometimes they hate you for killing everything first when you play shield they get to play the game too

[bitter turtle]

i would have just walked behind a wall

the real problem is

if u leave them out there too long

its area denial

[old quail]

the thing is the regular block also works

[rigid pilot]

You can just walk and block too it barely eats any stamina

[old quail]

planting is just suicide 99% of the time

[bitter turtle]

and eventually some boss or specialists come in

and u have no space to do anything

that's the real threat

killing them asap is the best way to help;

[proper delta]

Controversial idea in here homie

[rigid pilot]

Unless you are full on blocking 5 reapears

[bitter turtle]

esp on the new map

[rigid pilot]

Planting vs reapers who learnt to walk

[bitter turtle]

like i can hide behind a wall just fine but we need to make space when they drop a BoN on that shitty catwalk asap

planting in front of gunners doesnt advance that

[somber axle]

But yeah playing Recon Mk II and playing Boltpistol is night and day for dealing with crowds of non-elite ranged. You can suddenly spare the ammo and have the long distance damage and accuracy to both kill and suppress them effectively while thinning their numbers without fearing your ammo count going dry for it. It's really nice. Meanwhile Boltpistol is killing one at a time, staggering the ones close to it and a lot of people are struggling to hit their shots with the recoil/sway. I've watched some Boltpistol players fire off shots at targets right in front of them and MISS 2-3 times in a row and it's so goofy

[proper delta]

Planting asserts dominance you don’t understand ogryn at all

[faint beacon]

Still yet to die to that cat walk, do not understand why people get upset about it

[bitter turtle]

and yea that too

ive been launched off the catwalk by barrels

[rigid pilot]

Asserts dominance over the patch of floor

[faint beacon]

Just don’t hit them?

[bitter turtle]

do u think im the one hitting them

[proper delta]

Well the boltpistol is really good at missing inherently

[faint beacon]

I actively shoot them before hand

[somber axle]

One time on the catwalk I got hit with a net and before the team could even turn around two poxbursters distanced apart to avoid popping each other fell on me and instagibbed me LMFAO

[rigid pilot]

Have you played with brainrot 3b ogryns on that map

[proper delta]

Now you’re getting it

[somber axle]

it was such a goofy death

[faint beacon]

Before anyone pushes up so it becomes idiot proof

[proper delta]

Oh so you can hit every barrel but you can’t hit shooters

Bffr

[bitter turtle]

depending on build im not always in front

also

ngl

some of the barrels

[faint beacon]

Like seriously indiscriminately shoot those things ahead of your team

[bitter turtle]

are like

pipes or someshit

[faint beacon]

Yeah very few are

[bitter turtle]

easy to miss

[last parcel]

i hang at the back so i can blow my teammates off

[somber axle]

Yeah but it's also a slower firing weapon. And I think that's the trouble with the current meta for Vet. Zarona Revolver and Plasma do not deal with hordes of shooters effectively. They are very good with anti-elite and anti-special. But when a room is full of non-elite shooters the Vet either has to close melee or burn ammo killing them very slowly compared to other weapons in the Vet arsenal. Columnus Infantry Autogun is ok for short to mid range engagements but at longer range the gun sway + recoil makes it trickier for landing shots on targets behind cover, and non-elite shooter trash is almost ALWAYS behind waist high cover

[proper delta]

It’s slower firing if you’re trying to hit stuff

[somber axle]

You either grab smokes and close to a range to better engage

hope someone else deals with it

or waste ammo and time

[faint beacon]

Again it was a situation of being overwhelmed and noticing overtime that they deal a shit ton of damage I don’t understand why you’re being snarky about it

[somber axle]

they're just not good weapons for clearing ranged chaff

[proper delta]

Cause I wanna put a fire up your ass

[somber axle]

CIAG can be when at short to mid range at least

[somber axle]

destroy all barrels the instant you see them before anyone walks close and no one will ever accidentally barrel each other

[bitter turtle]

watch

whena zealot runs into the barrel at light speed

as you try to destroy it

[proper delta]

You are the veteran you dominate the shooters they are weaker than you

[bitter turtle]

and gets flung off

[faint beacon]

There fault at that point

[old quail]

i hit a barrel once, turn around to melee a guy on the ledge, turn back just in time to watch an ogryn slam his pickaxe in the barrel

sending me to my death while the MURDERER is merely ledged

[somber axle]

one time a mutie grabbed me and threw me at a barrel another Vet was shooting to help kill a horde and the timing of the throw was just perfect to send me flying off into the abyss into my immediate death

after I died my camera swapped into spectator mode on that Vet

he was standing still

motionless

and then he said "I'm so sorry"

[bitter turtle]

yea idk

[somber axle]

and I cackled

LMFAO

[faint beacon]

Guilt

[somber axle]

it wasn't even his fault

[bitter turtle]

its easy for accidents to happen on that catwalk

[somber axle]

it was the Mutie