veteran-class

[drifting oak]

did the latest patch specifically buff enemy shooters or something?

[tawny badger]

the gunner shooting you through 13582849 poxwalkers

[drifting oak]

i didn't read anything about it

[hearty panther]

shooters yes

their salvos are longer, more accurate, and there is less delay between bursts

[drifting oak]

huh

[tawny badger]

I knew there was something

shooters felt more oppressive but I couldn't put my finger as to why

like bro why are you shooting so fast now

[drifting oak]

i've always treated even just one (1) shooter with the same priority as a fucking special

[hearty panther]

visualize it as, what ten shooters used to do, now three do

[drifting oak]

since it only takes 1 shooter to ruin a rez

like I will absolutely run backwards to ferret a couple of stray shooters out of cover because they will absolutely cause a wipe 30 seconds later when someone needs to rez

just pew pew pew pew into someone with low toughness

[hearty panther]

oh yeah, shooters were still 'priority'

[drifting oak]

so frankly I hadn't noticed the shooter buff

[hearty panther]

but they were never 'i will break from my current engagement to kill them'

at least for me

[tawny badger]

popping shroudfield to backstab a shooter (absolutely necessary)

[hearty panther]

i would stay stuck in but my positioning would move slowly to kill the shooters

[drifting oak]

I don't know about ulting for a single shooter lmao

[tawny badger]

I HATE them

so it's worth it

[drifting oak]

at that point you could probably just shoot them somehow

[hearty panther]

anyway just dont listen to reddit, which is currently coping by claiming 20% gunner res will save you

gunners werent changed

the new damage blasting you is all shooters

and gunner res is still mid af

[drifting oak]

it's alright, it makes facetrading with them much more nice especially on vet

[tawny badger]

started to realize that if I died with three 20% gunner res curios on I'd probably die anyway without them so like

[hearty panther]

correct

turns out the best counter is a wall

and you dont need curio stats for wall

[drifting oak]

gunner res there is the difference between quickly killing them because you can tank their fire purely on confirmed kill + iron will, or having to make it a dance

even with confirmed kill running

[hearty panther]

if you have iron will and/or VoC you are already gigatanky in a relative sense

this isnt even including close order

[drifting oak]

if you have confirmed kill AND iron will AND the headshot-kill DR though you can definitely afford to drop gunner res on curios though

[hearty panther]

the effect of 20-49% gunner damage res is even less notable at that point

we are talking hundreds of milliseconds of gained tankiness

and if the issue isnt a gunner but GUNNERS, plural

well frankly you're jsut fucked, you were out of position

you need to move, not tank

[drifting oak]

nah dude

there's several events where you get >gunners come out of a side door

like... train assassination midpoint?

[tawny badger]

what was iron will again

[drifting oak]

The sidedoor can have a gunner spawn

[hearty panther]

50% TDR above 75% toughness

gunners literally feed you their counter

[tawny badger]

is

is that good

[hearty panther]

it's sprinting and sliding

yes that's exceptionally good

[drifting oak]

iron will is practically a default pick on veteran

if you're NOT taking it you're doing something very specific

that takes literally all your points

[tawny badger]

I have been avoiding it because it seemed bad to me

[drifting oak]

it's absurdly good because it lets you face-trade with shooters while getting confirmed kill/headshot kill toughness rolling

and the first melee hit you soak is heavily reduced if you're focused on shooting, consciously eating exactly one trash mob's melee attack so you can focus on getting a shot off is clutch

heck, if you're getting confirmed kill toughness pumping, you can literally soak several poxwalkers just beating you

[hearty panther]

i would not recommend letting them do that but yea you can

[tawny badger]

I mean I'd rather not get a poxwalker axe up the ass

[drifting oak]

i mean, yes, but there's moments where like your team is literally backed into a wall or stuck in a door

[tawny badger]

yeah that's true

[hearty panther]

sounds like a problem for them

im way ahead aggroing a demonhost

we are not the same

[drifting oak]

there's a lot of pain-points on maps immediately after getting through a checkpoint

and there's like a massive gunner squad

jailhouse assassination door in the jail-section just before hte boss

this section is fucking brutal with the L-shaped corridor

and neemies shooting at you from the central office windows while you try to advance down the corridor

[tawny badger]

the bit in the newest level right after the gondola

oh my GOD

[drifting oak]

is that the section with the upward slope

[tawny badger]

yes

"yeah here you'll be fighting an uphill battle also here's 200 gunners and 1042589390341 scab ragers have fun"

[drifting oak]

that section is actually pretty forgiving tbh because there's big walled hallways on left and right

you can't get crossfired like you do in the jail section

[tawny badger]

tru

[drifting oak]

like that section of the map felt like someone had played jail assassination and gotten absolutely fucked on the corridor section

"y'know it doesn't feel good to have to squeeze through a narrow section while the entirety of hte mobian 6th shoots you from the side"

[tawny badger]

just gotta thug that shit out I guess

[drifting oak]

it looks dramatic as hell

but it's actually really well designed unlike a lot of other "superwide open sections" on other maps

now

if we want to talk about shittily designed map sections

dear lord the entire first section of the new map

is such massive ass cancer

[tawny badger]

can easily fall off + boss spawnpoint

[drifting oak]

i have seen so many players go flying off the ledge

because of barrels

my brother in christ shoot every barrel ahead of time

[tawny badger]

I got pushed off the edge by a pox hound

like how 😭

[drifting oak]

and the interior sections on the right

are so ridiculously tight you can't circle a flamer

if one appears

you HAVE to shoot him because there literally isn't enough space to dodge around him

[hearty panther]

i love the beginning section for all these reasons

[tawny badger]

I mean wouldn't you shoot him anyway

you're not letting the flamer live, are you?

[drifting oak]

no, a flamer on open ground you can run at him at an angle and then hit him in melee

And if he's embedded in melee shooting him is less viable for many ranged weapons

[tawny badger]

true

[drifting oak]

but like in those hallways if you have a flamer he's going to be inside of every melee mob and impossible to hit, to say nothing of elites

[tawny badger]

bulwark jumpscare

[drifting oak]

lord have mercy a bulwark is literally as wide as those hallways

it's funny but it's so demoralizing to have two just clogging the hallway

as you try to chip their arms down

[tawny badger]

either that or your team's ogryn's fat ass blocking the hallway

[drifting oak]

ehhhh that's fine, if the ogyrn is there he should be clearing it by himself

especialyl with the new pickaxes, they're fucking cracked

ogyrn 2-handed melee that feels more like a thunder hammer than a thunder hammer

[tawny badger]

I don't fw ogryn all that much but what is it for

the pickaxe, I mean

[drifting oak]

I don't know the variants but all the footage I've seen of them

they have it all

single target damage, horde damage, good stagger

[tawny badger]

zamn

[drifting oak]

they MIGHT have a low dodge count?

[tawny badger]

that's not really a big deal for ogryn of all things

I don't think

[drifting oak]

but you can play around that same as you do on thunder hammer/crusher on zealot

[tawny badger]

esp if it got confident strikes or whatever it was, that +toughness on chained hit

[drifting oak]

it mainly just fucks with your muscle memory

[wanton sage]

Is there a reason why it doesnt work half of the time?

[drifting oak]

I've never noticed a problem with it?

Unless it was just introduced this patch

[hearty panther]

It works every time, the UI just has a lot of trouble keeping up with all the buffs.

[wanton sage]

Oh so it just doesnt appear on buff menu?

[hearty panther]

Sometimes/often.

[wanton sage]

Got it

[wanton sage]

It doesnt show for me(at least) half of the time that I get a buff

Well if it still works, all good

[pseudo fiber]

They gotta double stack up that buff menu though. There's so many now

[hearty panther]

It's an arrangement issue.

Buffs are flickering on and off constantly (There are a lot) and some icons will spawn and overlap

[sterile phoenix]

Last couple missions have kicked my ass with all the shooters. Any suggestions on an anti-shooter build?

[hearty panther]

There's mods that fix it since it lets you rearrange all the shit as you want it.

[untold moth]

Recon lasgun feels so damn fun right now

Been testing a bunch of small variants in build to see which feels or performs best.. so far, the 2 I think is most fun overall. But I’m still hunting a “perfect” 7.

[jolly bay]

Blessings?

[untold moth]

For the 2, best combination I have experienced so far is dumdum+infernus. But dumdum+ headhunter is also strong, and you can leverage a build towards it

The “toughness on weakspot kill” Is a strong talent, but doesn’t work well with infernus

[solar ivy]

quick q, how much does charge rate actually do for the plasma gun?

[jolly bay]

Noice I'm just starting on vet

[untold moth]

For perks. I’m currently using 25 maniac, 25 flak. But I think there is merit in 25 unarmored 25 flak.

[untold moth]

The margin on that stat is pretty low if I recall. You can inspect the weapon to see the lower and upper bound. You can only get 80% of the way to the upper bound, so the difference between a say a 50 and 80 roll is likely negligible

[solar ivy]

i got 35 % but i never charge it up

[frank ledge]

Why isn't there a centralized place to share vet builds/info?

[untold moth]

It might impact the base hip fire speed? I’m not sure

[frank ledge]

We have 3 different tables for stats

[untold moth]

There’s a thread for it

[solar ivy]

yeah idk, its got god role perks but that

[frank ledge]

And a separate one for weapons

[untold moth]

FatShark UI design is lacking. And tbh, a lot of stats don’t do what they should

Tooltips are weird

A lot of stats are obscured as well. Bit sad

[solar ivy]

yeah ik what u mean

[untold moth]

Big chance we get a better UI with crafting update

Vermintide has had their UI change a few times

[solar ivy]

can u settle a debate pls

is shattering impact good for plasma, y or n?

[untold moth]

If it applies brittleness, that’s applied for all players. Which can be a benefit, but it’s Unoften that quick play teammates will change their playstyles around it

I don’t believe that the plasma gun has much need for rending, but I’d want to check before giving a solid answer. But I’d imagine that other blessings are probably better

[solar ivy]

so gets hot and blaze away ig is better

[untold moth]

Blaze away for sure. I’d need to check what gets hot does again. If it’s crit, I’m pretty sure that crit is lack luster on the plasma gun. Small increase in damage. But if it gets you 1 shot breakpoints sometimes that’s awesome

Plasma gun is a nice weapon in that is mostly reliant on base stat roll as opposed to blessings.

Makes it easier to get a great one

[solar ivy]

thats fair

ty

[wanton sage]

well it is what it is

Two shot crushers

[somber axle]

I am unsure why this message was blocked but a clown always has a workaround LOL

[radiant chasm]

Technically zealot chat did this too much and the practice is outlawed

[somber axle]

Recons, like all the Lasguns, excel at ammo economy. No other guns can make the ammo last like the Lasguns and Recons are now more comfortably in that list too

[radiant chasm]

Thirsty?

[somber axle]

It would be fine if I could figure out what about the message was a problem

[radiant chasm]

No that wasn’t it

Yea we did the same thing lol

[somber axle]

I am not sure what word I used that could trigger a moderation bot

[hearty panther]

It's because you didn't end the last sentence with a period.

[radiant chasm]

I meant screenshotting and posting a auto modded post

[hearty panther]

WE TAKE PUNCTUATION VERY FUKKEN SERIOUSLY HERE

... PERIOD.

[somber axle]

It's my secret way of proving I am me

If I am ever replaced, the doppelganger clown will properly punctuate the last sentence

Also after finishing the event for kills with the new weapons to get all the dockets/plasteel/diamantine I swapped off of Boltpistol into Recon Mk II and suddenly the new map became baby mode easy LMFAO

It's amazing how much the difficulty of the new map changes once someone has a weapon that can comfortably clear ranged chaff quickly and cheaply

[hearty panther]

ye there's a more defined need for a backliner anti-shooter type

and im for it

[somber axle]

I love the Recon Mk II and it might be my new fav of the three Recons

Both elite ranged types and non-elite ranged types need someone on the team ready to counter them or the team will be forced to push up more slowly

[whole moon]

precision fire underwear!! how I have missed you

[somber axle]

The Zealots and Ogryns in my groups tried this and got shredded like cheese pushing into the open areas of the new map

You can definitely still close to melee but the ranged chaff will punish people for it

[lost canyon]

yo im back

[somber axle]

They spread out a TON at that big section after the lift

[lost canyon]

just checking in real quick, did they ever unfuck the veteran yet?

[somber axle]

Smokes/Bubbles/Lasguns trivialize that section

[odd sparrow]

how do you mean?

vets are pretty strong rn

[somber axle]

Sure but the average Auric quickplay player certainly has LOL

[hearty panther]

i deffo noticed the change, three scab stalkers seem to shoot at you nonstop now lol

their tempo is up

[somber axle]

The non-elite shooters fire more often and Gunners have a tighter spread for more accuracy and better damage over distances

[frank basin]

Sheeeeeesh

[lost canyon]

There was big update that changed the vet, made the keystones stupid in comparison to the simple zealot keystones. people were making builds using 0 keystones on veteran because they were so bad.

[somber axle]

Yes I have noticed the difference too. Particularly when running Boltpistol for anti-elite and anti-special clear. It does ok on non-elite shooter clear but timing the shots to adjust for the recoil/weapon sway makes it feel so much slower for ranged room clear vs Recons or Boltgun

[pseudo fiber]

oh traitors curse part one? That got fixed in like 2 weeks lol

[lost canyon]

how did they fix it?

[odd sparrow]

well they buffed marksman focus, the other two keystone are honestly pretty decent and people just needed to accept that lol

[pseudo fiber]

crunched the tree down with several buffs

[odd sparrow]

also that

[somber axle]

Ranged enemies are just overall more of a threat than they've ever been before

[woeful ibex]

need to double check, so just scab/dreg shooters get accuracy bonuses. But scab gunners are included too?

[somber axle]

It makes a dedicated shooter role even more valuable for a pug team

[hearty panther]

ye i remember i used to build all my chars specifically to not get toughness-broken by a single salvo

[somber axle]

I didn't play during P12 so I have no idea what that era was like, but these ranged enemies are definitely more of a threat now vs pre-Secrets of the Machine God

[hearty panther]

and oh my god there was SO MANY SHOOTERS pre-p12

now its a lot of gunners

but it would be a fucking clowncar frenzy of shooters

[somber axle]

The increased fire rate on non-elite shooters and the increased accuracy on Gunners have been incredibly punishing for quickplay pugs

Shotgunners haven't changed though

They're still pretty easy to kill

[hearty panther]

i miss scary shotgunners

[frank basin]

clown car frenzy

[woeful ibex]

everyday, Psykers with shields are mandatory at this point

[somber axle]

I've had moments where I look away for a moment to deal with the pack of maulers the AI director spawned behind us only to turn around and see my quickplay pug is all down to enemy ranged LMFAO

[dire olive]

I for one do not miss the short range sniper shotgunners

[somber axle]

People are too used to seeing enemy ranged chaff as a non-threat and low priority so they ignore it, think they can shrug off the damage or just dodge it easy

Then run out of dodges and get their toughness turned to dustness

[frank basin]

Having 5 shotgunner in old time is scary?

[hearty panther]

having one shotgunner in old time was scary

[woeful ibex]

nah, have 2-3 shotgunnera delete your health even on heresy during launch

[somber axle]

Ghost Laspistol Vets can rest easy though. They can stand out in front of the firing lines and put them down effectively

[frank basin]

How am going to deal pubbies auric heresy?

[hearty panther]

five was probably everyone dying i dont think they even spawned five shotgunners at a time pre-auric boards

[dire olive]

It was like getting hit with a sniper that pushes towards you

[hearty panther]

it was hilarious

[somber axle]

I hope they bring this back because it sounds hilarious LOL

[hearty panther]

i'd see their stupid skull-backpack poking through a horde walking up to me

and my heartrate would slowly accelerate

the closer it got

until i would be screaming

it was psychologically very effective

[woeful ibex]

man launch day scab shotgunners were something

One full squad can delete your 4 man team

[hearty panther]

ye before they fixed it

wish they just ... didnt fix it, or just separated that

[somber axle]

I built a set up for a player that wasn't giga juiced though
#veteran-class message

[hearty panther]

fighting three full health chaos spawns? awye

[old quail]

getting a slug and full health plogryn at the end of chasm logistratum was fun

[somber axle]

I play the funny clown juice but I don't push that onto others when they want a nice build for Recons

[woeful ibex]

Wolfer is proud

now scab shooters just spam lasers

[frank basin]

Gunner is a threat to me when there’s 2-3 scatter around

[junior needle]

I'd have gone redirect fire over demo team personally

I feel like nade regen is enough

[hearty panther]

green shotgunner lul

nurglebless annoys me

nothing like following a laser back to its source and shooting a sniper and ... nope, he's green, you have now been got

oh i guess zealot cant just

[woeful ibex]

also does the Dreg shotgunner barrel roll?

[hearty panther]

basically turn off nurglebless anymore with punishment

[woeful ibex]

I noticed only the scab rolls towards you

[somber axle]

It was Krak without Grenadier and they seemed to be newer to Vet so I wanted to give them extra leeway on using Kraks more often but that's a fair critique

Demo Team + Demo Stockpile is definitely excessive

[frank basin]

Demo team and stockpile for maximum victory

[somber axle]

Also wow Kraks feel nice now

I can only imagine how they felt throwing Krak grenades into bosses with that set up LOL

Fire Team, Bring It Down and Tinkerer juicing Krak damage

[frank basin]

Having 4 veteran running krak grenade

[junior needle]

Newer player setup without surv is a choice

[frank basin]

I imagine that

[woeful ibex]

does it stack with auras?

[frank basin]

No

[woeful ibex]

damn

[frank basin]

Ikr

[tall torrent]

FTE doesn’t interact with blitz dmg

It’s melee & ranged only

[somber axle]

They're coming from Gunlugger Ogryn into Recon Mk VId and spending the talent points dipping into Surv Aura leaves them without enough talent points for Onslaught

And like I think Onslaught is just too important for the Recon Mk VId to pass up

It's like a better Chink in their Armour

no juggling Marksman's Focus stacks

Just always active and shredding armour

[tall torrent]

It’s not tho

U only rly need it for killing crushers

[radiant chasm]

Good for scab ragers

Reapers

[somber axle]

I know we disagree on the build there but the DPS/TTK on Maulers/Flak Ragers/Crushers is noticeable

[radiant chasm]

And longer range scab engagements

[somber axle]

By a significant margin too

[tall torrent]

Mauler & crusher u can just bring a melee that does good carapace dmg

Scab rager sure

[somber axle]

I've run Recon Mk VId without Onslaught and suddenly seen a 500-600 DPS drop and wondered where my damage went until I remembered that I didn't have Onslaught

Like you can run it without Onslaught

It's passable

It's objectively worse

I have touched the heavens of Recon Mk VId Onslaught and no longer wish to live among mortals who use the Recon Mk VId without it

[radiant chasm]

I mean i bring both

But sometimes blasting is the way you can’t go wrong with rending

It only doesn’t help vs unarmored and infested

[somber axle]

Also can you imagine the DPS/TTK drop between a Vet using Recon Mk VId Onslaught/Rending Strikes/Executioner's Stance vs a Voice of Command Vet using Voice of Command and ONLY Rending Strikes??

They'd feel like the weapon was piddly

At least with Rending Strikes + Onslaught it can still dish out some solid damage vs Flak + Carapace

Incorrect

I have tested this thoroughly and the Recon Mk VId benefits most from Onslaught

[sinful swallow]

It improves shot to kill in a lot of different sub-perfect scenarios

[somber axle]

You can drop it on Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa though

Their fire rates are too slow to benefit much

[radiant chasm]

Im with sneaky here if im going down that side of the tree i’m grabbing onslaught it’s the best node there

[somber axle]

I can record and show you the difference between my set up with and without Onslaught

It's pretty significant

[radiant chasm]

And VId benefits from it well

[junior needle]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's because of your very particular build

[sinful swallow]

Extrapolate a few shots per enemy and time to kill across a whole mission

[junior needle]

That the disparity is so big

[radiant chasm]

You know how many lasers you save with a 1 second shorter ttk on a vid

That’s a meaningful breakpoint

[somber axle]

Yeah but the disparity between someone not using ranged damage talents vs someone using them is going to be even bigger tbh

[radiant chasm]

And everything flak at range and reapers

[sinful swallow]

If you're going recon you really should just listen to sneaky

[tall torrent]

Not that much on unyielding

[somber axle]

It also changes Flak Ragers and Mauler bodyshot TTK too

I will record more stuff

[junior needle]

No no, if you have a 200 dps difference on a regular setup, it only gets larger as you juice more

[frank basin]

Reaper has some carapace right?

[radiant chasm]

Unyielding is affected by rending

[junior needle]

And bracelets

[radiant chasm]

Only unarmored and infested is not

[junior needle]

It's easily avoidable

[radiant chasm]

Unless they recently did a change i did not see

If so please link the patch

[tall torrent]

Yes, with rending strikes u get 0.85x ADM instead of 0.75x

[somber axle]

Oooh I see what you mean. So a set up ignoring left tree and only grabbing Onslaught + Rending Strikes is seeing less of a damage increase vs left tree with both of those. And like yeah but I'd still say it's important for improving DPS/TTK on Carapace + Flak

Rending Strikes alone isn't enough to carry the Recon Mk VId into good Crusher DPS/TTK imo

[radiant chasm]

Peak adm or fall off adm

[past knot]

Whats best way/weapon to suppress enemies? I'm trying to do infiltrate penance

[radiant chasm]

The 2nd is what im talking about

[junior needle]

brautos excel at it

Dont take TB though

[somber axle]

Yeah I ran a big test of Flak/Unyielding targets on all variants of Recon and noticed this too

[tall torrent]

U just infil and break stealth near big group of enemies

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId fell behind on DPS/TTK on Reapers/Bulwarks

I made a big imgur album of recordings for that too!

[tall torrent]

Yes but that’s fine

[past knot]

Whats tb

[somber axle]

But you CAN trust visual evidence

[past knot]

Ah so near hordes

[junior needle]

Terrifying barrage, the tooltip is misleading and it's really bad. Just remember that only shooters, gunners, and reapers can be effectively suppressed. Everything else is either outright immune or barely effected (groaners)

[somber axle]

https://imgur.com/a/Aakg9Ef
https://imgur.com/a/xsBMAkG
https://imgur.com/a/FZg3YUu

Here we go!

I recorded these recently

All Recon Variants, the talent set ups and weapons used for testing, and the recordings at different distances for DPS/TTK comparisons

[uncut pebble]

Cat is nothing if not thorough with their homework.

[somber axle]

I tested a bunch beforehand to see what the optimal talent tree set up for DPS/TTK would be before putting the best versions of my Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa to the test

I then compared it to my usual talent set up and my current main Recon Mk VId for DPS/TTK vs Flak/Unyielding

[tall torrent]

new guide section WIP

[past knot]

I see I see
So I just get suppression node and use the weapon you said and pop infil near big horde?

[somber axle]

I was just off work and tired. I did absolutely suck but I do play better than that moment generally

I will say I'm not on your tier for skill but I'm not as bad as you may think

[tall torrent]

This is the coolest part I’m gonna add but it’s also prob the most tedious lol

At least I’m not gonna do <damnation enemy dmg numbers

[somber axle]

I do clown science and record DPS/TTK

If you dislike the numbers tuning or the methods, you are welcome to perform your own tests/recordings too

Pride is worthless, information is priceless

And I am always happy to help share info with new players interested in Recons

Through my testing I managed to make a fun chart for it too

DPS/TTK (single target)
Mk II > Mk VIIa > MK VId

DPS/TTK (multi target)
Mk VIIa > Mk VId > Mk II

DPS/TTK (carapace)
Mk VId > Mk VIIa > Mk II

Ammo Efficiency
Mk II > Mk VIIa > Mk VId

Recon Mk VIIa: 50-54 shots (2 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk II: 100-108 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk VId: 160-180 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 160-180 ammo per clip)

Recon Mk II has become the new clown favourite tbh

I will record Recon Mk VId TTK/DPS vs Mauler/Flak Rager to show the difference

Give me a few minutes

Words alone are difficult to trust without evidence to back it up

So I record

[drifting oak]

i mean onslaught/rending on hit will definitely improve flak TTKs by like... maybe a few shots

[somber axle]

Also I am down to play more matches on a day off

[drifting oak]

but you already go brrrrrrrrr so are you REALLY ever going to notice

[somber axle]

I will prove I am not nearly as bad as those 3 matches implied LOL

I am off Thursday/Saturday this week so poke me on either of those days and I'll be down to go heretic hunting again

[uncut token]

I’d say that someone who bases their opinion on a person on one short interaction of maybe an hour, hour and a half, is foolish and shortsighted.

[drifting oak]

https://tenor.com/view/scrubs-where-do-you-think-we-are-meme-gif-20456408

[uncut token]

Ever had an off day?

[drifting oak]

data collation is a very different skill than game sense tbh

the numbers might say one thing but actual game feel and how useful "data" is to that is completely different

[somber axle]

If you don't want to play again that's fine. But that's also untrue LOL

[drifting oak]

like when does getting -1 hit-to-kill ACTUALLY matter

[somber axle]

How well someone plays after a work day vs on a day off is very different

You had to leave? Not me LOL

I did keep playing more matches later that day

After I got some rest

For other days? I don't remember this

[drifting oak]

gee it's almost like people don't want to play with people they have beef with

:^)

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/pomni-stare-the-amazing-digital-circus-huh-what-gif-14848454493863729355

[tall torrent]

I hope I didn’t do too terrible

[somber axle]

You can't do as poorly as I did LMFAO

I really, really sucked in those three matches (I was so tired and nervous LOL)

[drifting oak]

anyway if I want to have fun with recon las but don't want to go hard right tree for onslaught how's this

am I forgetting anything

[tall torrent]

I basically spent half the mission away from the team grabbing plasteel and the moment I look back Azrael & judgement are 90m ahead fighting the Roman legion

[somber axle]

Which Recon variant?

Also you should definitely grab a keystone

[drifting oak]

was going to start iwth recon2 and work my way through

does left keystone reasonably benefit recon las, I thought there was something with the math that made the left keystone bonus basically nil

[somber axle]

I made the mistake of trying to keep up with Azrael and their friend at all times, and wow they're FAST

[drifting oak]

or did that change with this patch

[somber axle]

If I had played at my own pace I might have been ok

But I was trying to compete

[drifting oak]

i'm a plasteel sniffer myself

i blew 50K today trying to get slaughterer 4 for the new pickaxes for ogyrn

didn't get it lul

[somber axle]

Also Numbers Cat we should play a few games together eventually because you seem like you'd be fun to play with

[uncut token]

@formal lake My point is, don’t be so full of pride you think you can assume you know a person, game performance is affected heavily by life events, work, rest level, stress, it’s foolish, shortsighted and arrogant to say you have gauged someone skill level in such a short time. I have no doubt you are skilled, but why immediately go to slandering someone, simply because you don’t see them on your level? Cat has a principle I respect of researching and sharing information. This isn’t a competitive game and that kind of pride only hurts you.

[somber axle]

I have a really stressful work week coming up and I'm not going to risk looking dumb again trying to play after a work day

This is not misinformation and I will prove it soon

Recording in progress!

[drifting oak]

I mean data is data
Interpretations of data are subjective

[uncut token]

Nothing I’ve seen from him has been inaccurate and I’ve followed a good bit. Niche and very preference based, but not incorrect.

[drifting oak]

Ogyrn ranged ult objectively obliterates bosses but I hate playing with it because I feel like most pug parties benefit more from having any other ult

former is objective data, latter is a subjective opinion of it

[somber axle]

Going to compile Onslaught vs No Onslaught into a new imgur album for view

Test targets will be Crusher, Mauler and Flak Rager

[drifting oak]

which one's which

[somber axle]

I'll also do test range at close range (0m to 7m) and far range (8m)

[tall torrent]

Close range is 0~8m, far is defined as 30m+

Usually

[drifting oak]

The only results I can realisticly think of is "you fire a controlled burst at a flak rager head"

"does it fall over"

[somber axle]

Yeah I'm not sure how to word it

[drifting oak]

and having onslaught will minorly help with that

[thick needle]

Drama and personal feuds in the number-crunching division

[drifting oak]

but if you're magdumping into a wall of flak ragers are you REALLLLLY ever going to notice?

[somber axle]

Mostly just that 8m is when buffs are active vs any closer and some buffs go inactive

[tall torrent]

The only guns that seem to have non-standard close & far range definition are the ones with “range” stat roll

And maybe Agripinaa revolver?

[drifting oak]

perhaps but if your muscle memory is that of "hold the trigger for X shots and then let off to see whether or not the rager is dead"

[tall torrent]

Can’t quite remember

[drifting oak]

having 1 or more fewer hits to kill is a comfort thing

agree thta it probably won't ever mater in a magdump situation

yeah, and that makes "on average the rager will be dead in fewer hits" a real boon IMO

[somber axle]

Crit streaks are why I run Deadshot + Headhunter tbh. You can better control the crit chance that way

[drifting oak]

no, because you don't stop shooting when you hear the death sound, your muscle memory is "hold trigger->shoot X shots->stop shooting->is it dead?"

You can't view TTK on fullauto weapons fired in manual bursts that way

[somber axle]

Give me time for compiling recordings and I will share my testing too

[drifting oak]

Okay, so what you're saying is that you overshoot every rager?

Because that's what it sounds like

which is... fine, but it's distinctly a choice

Okay, I'm going to describe the situation in which it does

[junior needle]

I'd recommend dropping tink for the ping keystone and redirect fire, assuming you find using it tolerable.

[tall torrent]

He’s saying that the TTK difference between onslaught and without is minuscule to the point where even with muscle memory in consideration, it’s too small of a difference to make u shoot less with onslaught

That’s how I understood it anyway

[somber axle]

Yeah this is correct. That's why I'm testing with and without Onslaught to show the DPS difference

[junior needle]

Grenades % on elite kill or whatever it's called is also overkill imo

[drifting oak]

• you are manually firing bursts that may or may not based on crit RNG and spread of arms and shoulders catching hits instead of the head, kill a rager

[uncut token]

It seems, it would be helpful for maulers and crushers, not a noticeable increase really anywhere else. So it again falls to preference. Not like anyone’s saying this is meta or use this over another.

[drifting oak]

Are we talking like single digit % change in "does it die or not" with and without onslaught

The biggest cost to me is that onslaught just costs so many points that I hate going deep right tree period lul

[tall torrent]

Therefore don’t take it

[drifting oak]

again I think this is a myopic way to look at it, I would have to look at it as "in 10 bursts of X shots against ragers, you kill A ragers with onsluaght and B ragers without"

[tall torrent]

It’s not worth it 99% the time

[hearty panther]

cqkz > stam is free as far as im concered

[drifting oak]

I'm not arguing that it's AMAZING MUST TAKE But I hate the TTK argument when it comes to engaging multiple targets with an automatic weapon

[tall torrent]

This is true
But left side has ammo -> elite dmg -> stam which is imo a better deal

I’ve not purposefully taken the right side stam regen boost node in a long time

[hearty panther]

and id rather just grab kraks or a better melee tbh

[somber axle]

I will show one specific set of recordings to prove to you the MAJOR difference in Onslaught vs without Onslaught though

[hearty panther]

i think they forgot to adjust 6d mobility

cause its supposed to be a laser lmg but its still the fastest one lmao

[uncut token]

It’s never been min max for crushers, it’s been min max for using the recon as a fun gun, as far as I understand it.

[hearty panther]

still has columnus mobility instead of agri

[tall torrent]

Well, he is min-maxing recon for the sole purpose of killing crushers basically

[drifting oak]

also never, tinkerer frags are goated

[tall torrent]

Tinkerer is not as big of a boost to frags as u think

It’s a more valuable boost to krak/smoke than frag

[drifting oak]

25% R A D I U S isn't a boost?

[umbral scaffold]

out of the two combat blades, the 3 and 6, which one over the other do yall prefer

[uncut token]

A preference, for fun, as he’s said, not claiming it’s best for it, just enjoying something unique

[somber axle]

It's more than Crushers even from basic testing

Look at this:

[drifting oak]

it's the difference between 1 frag-walk away from a side of horde and having to manually mop it up

[tall torrent]

Yea, u go from 100pi to 156pi in terms of area but u don’t kill any particular thing better

[somber axle]

You can compare the version using Onslaught doing MORE DPS

[hearty panther]

two shredders kill a lot, 25% radius kills a lot more

[somber axle]

than the version without Onslaught and Focus Target 5 stack doing LESS DPS

[drifting oak]

I think that reliably sweeping up poxwalkers who have started to spread is a huge boost

[hearty panther]

but yea i suppose the output isnt too dissimilar

[somber axle]

Even Focus Target doesn't push it to doing more DPS than Onslaught

And it's still 300 DPS behind

[tall torrent]

It’s not as big of a boost over a keystone let’s just put it that way

[somber axle]

Think of how much that difference is magnified when using more damage buffs

TTK on multiple Maulers will drop significantly

TTK on multiple Maulers will only be worse without Onslaught

[drifting oak]

yeah crit variance is going to be huge

[tall torrent]

Like, yes it’s a solid boost, it’s not so strong of a boost that u should drop a keystone for

[junior needle]

Recons need more juice than average to keep up so just keep that in mind, detours will cost ranged performance

[somber axle]

You can see the DPS difference on no Onslaught with Focus Target 5 stack juicing it to more damage

vs Onslaught and no Focus Target

Now scale that to multiple Maulers

Suddenly the difference is very, very significant

[drifting oak]

I think the point is you can't scale video footage of one (1) mauler kill, is exactly the point

[somber axle]

More ammo spent, less DPS, longer TTK

[drifting oak]

because of how swingy crit variance is

[somber axle]

Onslaught is very high value on the Recon Mk VId

[drifting oak]

one mauler kill is not a data point you can extrapolate from

[somber axle]

But how much you personally value Onslaught on a Recon is subjective

You may value other talents higher

[zinc nest]

Feel like everyone posting one-off kills in the meat grinde really miss this point

[somber axle]

And view the talent tax as too expensive

That's another argument entirely

Onslaught itself is more than marginal on DPS tests

[drifting oak]

I do feel that the onslaught benefit on mauler bodies HAS to be noticeable overall, just not necessarily "worth it"

[drifting oak]

that is a very fair point, but I'm used to playing mg4 las

how much worse can recon be

:^)

[somber axle]

Yeah and that's a fair take. For multiple Maulers and even single target Maulers I'd view it as very worth for better ammo economy, better DPS and shorter TTK

Long term it helps a Recon Mk VId punch a bit harder and stretch the ammo

[tall torrent]

It is noticeable, but it’s still very small to be worth the point cost

For some last point grabs, you could get agile engagement over onslaught

U could get desperado over onslaught

[somber axle]

It's even wilder as a difference vs Crushers outside of Exe Stance/buffs too

[tall torrent]

It’s just a hard sell to get onslaught

[somber axle]

Something I've noticed with my testing is I always test at the best possible ceiling I can reach

But not for common scenarios like Exe Stance on CD, no Marksman buff active, no For the Emperor active, no Close Quarters Kill Zone active

[drifting oak]

here's a hot take: remove the ICD on shocktrooper, I want my darn infinite ammo recons back

[somber axle]

I'm curious what your talent tree looks like and what your weapon looks like where Onslaught is somehow slower tbh

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t have an ICD

[junior needle]

mg4 is pretty good against anything but flak, your flak performance will be better but it won't be as outstanding against maniac so that flattens the average

[drifting oak]

eh wot, I thought they put one on it?

[tall torrent]

It procs off all ur Lasgun crits now

[tall torrent]

Previously it was “bugged” to only work for 1st crit in a crit chain, that’s been patched

Now it works for all ur crits

[drifting oak]

oh boy

i haven't played with recon las in forever, time to relive those glory days then

[somber axle]

That's surprising given that my own recordings/testing show Onslaught vs no Onslaught on targets can be 300-600+ DPS behind

and that's just on single target

With the same talent tree/weapon used

And the only difference being no Onslaught

And I should say that these are not old recordings

I am literally recording now

[junior needle]

No, that never happened. There was a period of months where string crits weren't working with shocktrooper due to a bug. People spread a lot of misinfo about it being an icd, but this was not the case.

[somber axle]

Your data is just wildly different than what I'm seeing

[junior needle]

IT WAS YOU

[somber axle]

I'm using controlled testing to show single target DPS/TTK using the same weapon with the only difference being the talent tree

I'm not sure what about that test could be wrong? The only difference between the tests would be the Onslaught talent

[drifting oak]

crit RNG and variance is what's "wrong"

[tall torrent]

He’s saying because the variance is too high you should have done multiple tests & took avg

[drifting oak]

and darktide doesn't use... whatever pseudorandom RNG system a ot of games these days are for crits, right

it's true RNG?

(which is simpler and better)

[somber axle]

Oooh. Ok yeah I see now. The sample size is too small for a good understanding of where the weapon's performance is. I can download creature spawner finally, I guess, and do more recordings but like

[tall torrent]

Like, I can post my knife 3 hit crusher vid with 3400dps

I’m still going to say the avg is somewhere around 3080~3152 in the best case scenario, because a normal human being physically cannot execute 3400+dps on knife all the time

[somber axle]

The big thing tripping me up is that I use Gyazo Replay for recordings so it's only 6 sec clips at most

I'm not sure how to record anything longer LOL

[drifting oak]

I will strongly suggest Medal.tv

[somber axle]

I have OBS but I have no idea how to make that work

[drifting oak]

it's not the most robust and fairly limited but it has very forgiving/idiotproof setup

[junior needle]

OBS is very simple

[somber axle]

I understand my mistakes now. I need to post larger sample sizes! Single target variance is too major. Creature Spawner and mult-target is how to best show the differences

I can post better recordings that way

At minimum I'll probably keep creature spawner for better testing in the Psykanium but I don't like taking any mods that change gameplay for matches

[drifting oak]

i'd argue that with high ROF weapons and crit RNG at a certain point "recordings" are non-viable

even in "a stack of intersecting maulers" tests

you can get weird results because of arms

[idle swallow]

Nvidia shadowplay works really nicely for me but you need a Nvidia GPU obviously

[somber axle]

Recons have always relied heavily on crits for performance tbh. Shock Trooper is what allows them to become better for ammo economy than any of the Infantry Autoguns for sustained fights (even if they fall behind on DPS/TTK)

[pearl granite]

is this a good gun for mass murder?

[drifting oak]

it's a DB so no to the "mass" part

manstoper was what, infini-cleave on crits or something?

[somber axle]

Oh! I have that kind of graphics card!

But my computer is a few years older

[tall torrent]

yez

[drifting oak]

yeah

[somber axle]

I have an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti

[tall torrent]

u can 1 tap every mauler stacked up 6m in front of u

huge

[drifting oak]

DB's individual shots compared to what the kickback can do

just not close enough for the same amount of effort

[pearl granite]

I have a pretty good kantrael (I think) with manstopper

[tall torrent]

it's more cinematic, good enough

[somber axle]

I need to figure out what Nvidia Shadowplay is

[idle swallow]

If you have GeForce Experience installed I think shadowplay comes with that

[somber axle]

I do yeah

[tall torrent]

the real challenge for me rn is to hold myself back from sinking plasteel into ogryn pickaxe

[somber axle]

I only ever look at it for updating my graphics drivers though

[drifting oak]

here's a question, Exhilarating Takedown (headshot toughness) for recons, yea or nay

[tall torrent]

nay

[pearl granite]

anyway, what are perks and blessing you recommend for DB shotgun?

[drifting oak]

I blew 50K plasteel trying to get slaughterer 4 for ogyrn pick
didn't get it
orz

[tall torrent]

flak + maniac
manstopper + both barrels IMO

[drifting oak]

that was my feeling, you'll get body/arm kills too often

[somber axle]

Nay imo. It can find the most value from the Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa, and I'd still recommend taking Confirmed Kill over Exhil Takedown on those two variants. It's even worse on the Recon Mk VId

[arctic rampart]

Is it me or are the new missions more fun? I didn't try traditional mission but actually getting challenged now in auric

[pearl granite]

I know that feel. spent 60k trying to find thrust 4 for my zealot 😭

[pearl granite]

thanks

[tall torrent]

I'll put infested in

[idle swallow]

Look around the settings/tabs in experience and you should see game recording options for clipping and long records

Not at my home computer rn so I can't guide you through

[tall torrent]

if u don't have both barrels

speedload isn't too horrible of a substitute

but ideally both barrels

[junior needle]

Well, not always. There was a long time before shocktrooper.

[pearl granite]

I have got bbarrel 3

[sinful swallow]

Both barrels over scatter+man?

[tall torrent]

@formal lake do u happen to have min pellet count for the new shotgun, and its total pellet count

[tall torrent]

yez because WS gives u crit

[pearl granite]

what's ws? 😊

[tall torrent]

weapon specialist

[pearl granite]

oh

[arctic rampart]

yes, weapon specialist once understood and experienced is the most fun

[tall torrent]

can't find it

[arctic rampart]

unless you're using shredders or $WORST_WEAPON_FOR_NO_REASON like sneakycat

[pearl granite]

wait, the double barrel doesn't share blessing with old shotguns?

[somber axle]

The beta/launch days of the original talent tree were a golden era for Vets. Camo stance letting you stand still and the whole map forgot you existed. Exe Stance letting you casually tank entire gunner firing lines by standing still out in the open with crazy levels of toughness damage reduction and toughness regen even today we can't reach. Kantrael Mk XII Infantry Lasgun being the king of all weapons for the meta. It was hilarious LOL

But yeah pre-Shock Trooper I don't remember anyone caring about crit builds

Deadshot was bad? I think?

[somber axle]

wdym you just repeated the worst weapon twice

[arctic rampart]

Eh, vet is the strongest right now for months. Voice of command, (plasma or colum or revolver), power sword or dagger or few other options... what's not to love?

[somber axle]

But yeah I've taken Shredder Autopistol into Aurics before for funsies and it was ok LOL

Recons have been buffed

They're mid-tier now

Not top-tier, but also not bottom-tier anymore

[arctic rampart]

I would argue before last patch majority thought recon lasgun was worse than shredder

[somber axle]

Shredder Autopistol firmly claims bottom tier alone

[somber axle]

Yeah that's correct LOL

I love the laser vomit tbh and even when the weapons were far weaker I loved running them in Aurics

[arctic rampart]

Recon lasgun absolutely eats ammo economy for everyone else. Especially the rando recon you'd run into

[somber axle]

The good news is that the new randoms running Recons in quickplay are actually useful now!

Kinda

[arctic rampart]

I don't know if that's good news

[somber axle]

At least more useful than they were before LOL

[arctic rampart]

I like 2 of my teammates to be useless bricks

but then the 4th has to b good

[somber axle]

I've had some Recon users hold their own pretty well in some quickplay lobbies

[somber axle]

I had this EXACT moment recently in Carnival with the map that has the giant chemical Vat at the end to break

2 Zealots ragequit near the end after going down

[arctic rampart]

I had 2 crabwalker god recons before last patch once

[somber axle]

Krieg Vet using a shovel and Helbore hung on despite dying

I managed to solo clutch it out, push past the waves and get him + the bots up

We finished the mission together

Krieg Vets really do the cosmetics justice sometimes

Finish the mission no matter what

[pearl granite]

damn, the new DB shotgun need level 22 to be able to buy

i'm afraid at that level, manstopper would be hard to get...

[tall torrent]

pray for melk's garage sale

he shall deliver

[somber axle]

Save your melk chocolate coins

he always has the blessing you're hunting for

[vast edge]

Opinions on Duck and Dive? Don't use it all that often but have recently reconsidered.

[pearl granite]

blessing is account-wide now?

when did they introduce it? I had no idea

[somber axle]

It's one of my fav blessings to pair with Deadshot tbh. Even without Deadshot it's still a very useful blessing for getting back stamina by dodging ranged while dueling melee elites for extra blocking, push attacks, etc.

It's really only competing with Close Quarters Killzone for going down the top right side of the Weapon Specialist tree to get the stam regen delay node too

CQKZ is a REALLY good blessing to compete with though

[pearl granite]

dang, I have always thought that I had to earn each blessing for each character...

[hearty panther]

man

zealot do be having a lot of stagger in their tree

its tru

rip potential 310% impact build

how will we ever recover

i always hated the left side anyway

no way i give up momentum

also +25% suppress > punishment is stinky on a lot of builds

vs. The hilariously universal +5% melee > sustained > tdr > swift

they gotta reorganize some of this

[tall torrent]

I'm cooking

[hearty panther]

get rid of that suppression node lol

yea theyre ezpicks

fukken right boiii

desperation is underrated period

most peeps dont even look twice at duelist

majority of zealots still hardlocked on holy rev

[tall torrent]

it's very strong yea

depends on weapon

EV doesn't rly need duellist

[hearty panther]

you should look at more trees in your morningstar lobby

its very eyeopening

like second wind is still somehow an open secret

instead of just an obvious lock

not like theres much other choice anyway

EWEW lol

that was fine year 1

and knives are just da best (tm)

i cant with them

and also speccing to them kinda blows

faith restores or voice of terra is like

ooof

[drifting oak]

okay

recon 2 is actually kind of goated

being able to lay down full auto fire that actually does decent damage, while moving at a hipfire-walk with decent accuracy, while regenning stamina

definitely was somewhat taxing even with shocktrooper but it was manageable even with a full ammo-using team

not sure how hungry the other variants are

[tall torrent]

7a has worse ammo econ, but still tolerable
6d has worst ammo econ

[somber axle]

Recon Mk II is my new fav LOL

it's so good

Recon Mk VId is fun for light machine gun memes though

bring the DAKKA

[somber axle]

DPS/TTK (single target)
Mk II > Mk VIIa > MK VId

DPS/TTK (multi target)
Mk VIIa > Mk VId > Mk II

DPS/TTK (carapace)
Mk VId > Mk VIIa > Mk II

Ammo Efficiency
Mk II > Mk VIIa > Mk VId

Recon Mk VIIa: 50-54 shots (2 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk II: 100-108 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 100-108 ammo per clip)
Recon Mk VId: 160-180 shots (1 ammo cost per shot, 160-180 ammo per clip)

I've got this thing saved for whenever stuff like this comes up

The high rate of fire makes it go through ammo much faster than the other two variants but because of the much higher magazine size it doesn't reload as often as the Mk VIIa

[drifting oak]

honestly the ability of the mk2 recon las to shoot

without dimiishing your walkspeeed at all

[somber axle]

Mk VId is thirsty, Mk VIIa is reloading more often, Mk II is the best overall

[drifting oak]

is something I noticed that it has over mk6

mk6 slows you down while shooting

[somber axle]

Yeah it really gives the feel of like

https://tenor.com/view/ratling-guns-total-war-warhammer-skaven-warhammer-total-war-gif-15796051

[junior needle]

Yep, there's a sizable slowdown with the 6d now

Completely unwarranted change

[somber axle]

It's definitely a nerf but I kinda like it tbh as weird as that sounds

It makes it feel like a light machine gun with the doubled magazine size, rate of fire and slowdown to movement speed when firing

[noble canyon]

Are there any good builds for Mk VIIa Recon, by the way? Brunt dropped me a 378 one and Hadron rolled Headhunter/Infernus. Do I just yolo Infiltrate/melee spec given what's going on in pubs most of the time?

[somber axle]

It's definitely the most unique of the Recon variants now and it's kinda surprising that a weapon that shares the same family name can be so different

[junior needle]

Recons require more juice than average for performance

You can do that but it wouldnt be efficient

As for a good build, it depends on what ability you want and whether you consider surv to be mandatory

[somber axle]

Headhunter is good and Infernus was recently buffed so it's not bad either. Dum Dum would be better than Infernus. You probably want Flak + Maniac or Flak + Crit chance for the perks. I can build you a nice talent tree if you'd like. Tell me which grenade and what ability you want

Soldier 69 is also here so he can offer advice on the tree I recommend too and what talents might be better to swap points for

[last parcel]

smokes executioner’s stance weapon specialist

[junior needle]

I call it the worm

The most point inefficient setup

[somber axle]

I need to try weapon specialist Recon Mk VId

[fossil basalt]

Love me smokes

[somber axle]

I want to feel the increased ranged attack speed

Do you think Fatshark will ever add more hairstyles/faces/tattoos?

I'm kinda hoping they put in a decent looking ponytail one day because I'd love to make my character look like Miranda from the first Space Marine game

[drifting oak]

it's not a change? it's been around

[somber axle]

They might mean the change to reload speed/swap speed?

Which I think is meant to play up the feel of the Recon MK VId as a heavy fire support version of the Recons

[noble canyon]

Alright, let's give it a try. I'd probably run something to get rid of elites in melee, so Shredders it is. I'd also like to try out Infiltrate with Recons, the reveal suppression effect seems decent for a weapon with kark all CC.

[somber axle]

@junior needle pinging Soldier 69 for peer review LOL

but we have a WORM

shredders into infiltrate is a funny zig zag

I could swap keystone into Weapon Specialist instead if you prefer the melee nodes

[junior needle]

Its handling as listed as being nerfed in a recent patch, although I can't be certain as I never checked

Also the reload speed

[junior needle]

stam regen delay bonus is an odd choice when you can have redirect fire, likewise with the nade regen on kill vs time based nade regen

[somber axle]

I usually grab at least one since Numbers Cat recommends it

But yeah the point could be swapped over into Redirect Fire

[junior needle]

I'd recommend over time personally

Instead of chance on kill

[somber axle]

Could also swap Demo Team into Demo Stockpile

The zig zag DOES allow that seamlessly

[pearl granite]

what are the cool kid's recon lasgun, perks and blessings for it?

[junior needle]

I was making something similar to this actually

[somber axle]

So like this

[last parcel]

ngl i skip precision strikes on recons unless i'm using knife or whatever

[junior needle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9c68454a-6446-40b0-865a-76b658723e95

This is what I ended up with, haven't played it yet and I've never used infiltrate before

[somber axle]

Recon Mk II: Dum Dum, Headhunter, Flak + (Maniac or Crit Chance)
Recon Mk VIIa: Dum Dum, Headhunter, Flak + (Maniac or Crit Chance)
Recon Mk VId: Headhunter + (Dum Dum or Infernus), Flak + (Maniac or Crit Chance)**

**Honourable Mention to Carapace for Crusher hunting on the Recon Mk VId but don't do this unless you're a clown like me LOL

[junior needle]

Not sure that ogryn damage is worth losing rending strikes

[somber axle]

Infernus is kinda ok for the II or VIIa but tbh you should probably always aim for Dum Dum over Infernus on those two

[somber axle]

I think it's sliiightly better for the Mk II and Mk VIIa after the damage buffs but that's fair. I think Determined is worth taking for the amount of ranged fire everyone will see in matches now though

[vast edge]

Late reply but thank you.

[junior needle]

precision strikes is about 150-200~ dps on that setup without buffs active

[somber axle]

You're in for a treat if you love stealth gameplay because Infiltrate lets you pull off some pretty goofy maneuvers and do solo clutching easier

[junior needle]

But that's with 100% headshot uptime

[somber axle]

Which variant?

[last parcel]

then i'll skip it for twinned blasts

[junior needle]

So if you think there's another node with more value I'd say go for it, I only take supp immunity because recons have goofy spread while ads when suppressed

Likely hasn't been changed

[pearl granite]

thanks

[somber axle]

Suppression immunity is absolutely recommended for Recons for sure. Either you get it from Executioner's Stance or you get it from Determined. Running without either is torture LOL

[somber axle]

Kraks, Fire Team, Tinkerer, Twinned Blasts, Grenadier, Bring It Down

I yearn to delete a boss by rolling dice

[noble canyon]

Took a look at the build you suggested, and yes I'd like a Weapon Specialist swap because I'd rather not get rolled in melee.

[junior needle]

2

Went from 1400~ and change to about 1600~ with and without, same setup

[hidden torrent]

l4d smoker be like

[last parcel]

i think skirmisher boosts that too but i don't have updated guide on me

[hidden torrent]

Thats crazy

[somber axle]

I'll make note of it for the future. 200~ish DPS is probably not worth the talent tax for some people

[somber axle]

time for "oops all Krak" cereal

I'm going to try this in an Auric and see if I can instantly delete a boss LOL

[last parcel]

[somber axle]

Tempted to try the Skirmisher thing

[last parcel]

oh wait i forgot surprise attack

[somber axle]

Sprint up to the boss in Infiltrate and throw Kraks

pray for my team because I'm using your talent set up

LMFAO

[last parcel]

[junior needle]

first game of today

freeze and dc right near the start

thank you fatshark

[last parcel]

darktide

[radiant adder]

Do I make elites into flak or change run and gun into something?

OR maniacs?

[light ridge]

I've been having fun with a variation of this

And this

[last parcel]

[light ridge]

They work

[feral jetty]

would I be allowed to get some pointers on a close range build?

I made one myself

but idk if it's good

[vast edge]

Agile Engagement is another talent I don't use very often either but have heard good things about it on this channel. Should I?

[feral jetty]

here's what I got going atm

not sure how good it is but ye

[orchid hemlock]

I'm confused what is this build supposed to do? 🤔

[feral jetty]

i'm mostly playing in close range with the Mk 6 power sword

[junior needle]

second disconnect in the same game

[feral jetty]

gonna try the shotgun too

hadron realy said no lmao

[last parcel]

fuck you hadron

[hollow ibex]

disconnects are baked into the difficulty level

[faint beacon]

It’s true

[somber axle]

It went fine and we trivialized the first boss but there was ONLY the one boss LOL

[hollow ibex]

yeah it's very good, pathing is... unfortunate however

[junior needle]

And it's lagging too

my connection is perfectly fine

[somber axle]

I didn't get any twinned blast procs though

[last parcel]

you made an example out of them

let this be lesson to eretig

[faint beacon]

Truly the darkest tide was trying not to disconnect out of a match

[somber axle]

With just the 3 kraks it destroyed more than half the boss HP I think LOL

and they were stunlocked the whole time

Zealots ripped off what was left of the Plogryn's head

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explode-cat-explode-mike-interpol-gif-13503338605162614186

[somber axle]

It was dead SO FAST

it didn't even get a chance to attack anyone

[faint beacon]

Did path ever send the Byeaheimer clip where I actively had his FPS go from 77 to 20<

[last parcel]

i don't recall

[somber axle]

Weapon Specialist + Recon Mk VId + Keep Their Heads Down was hilarious for suppression though

[faint beacon]

Sending it

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/iaGabgae8awBHrE8T/d1337fisBDLs?invite=cr-MSxodkIsMTA3NDAxNTczLA

[somber axle]

I could shoot down an alley and scatter the shooters/gunners LOL

[faint beacon]

His frames were struggling when I started doing that with PBB

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId was empty on ammo SO fast with Weapon Specialist though

but the fire rate was addictive

me falling in love with the fire rate while my team wonders where the ammo went

[last parcel]

gotta grab all the celery stimms

[somber axle]

yes

the entire mag is gone so fast

but it shoots SO SO FAST

[faint beacon]

“Where did ammo go…” - Brawler Ogryn

[somber axle]

me with every single tin and pack I can find in my mouth already

[last parcel]

mentlegen

[faint beacon]

This is why I’m becoming a Pick Ogryn so I don’t have to worry about ammo

[junior needle]

4 disconnects

[faint beacon]

That or I’m using DB WS more

[junior needle]

I hate fatshark

[last parcel]

they really hate you

[faint beacon]

From freezing or in general ping

[devout mist]

curious, whatre yall running for the bolt pistol blessings wise?

[junior needle]

"THE RESPONSE FROM FATSHARK SERVERS SEEMS SLOW"

Freezing disconnects

[devout mist]

yep

[faint beacon]

I know path had a fix for it, I just instantly crash instead of getting error 2014

You have to go into the win32 file of Darktide in steam and change the memory dump from true to false something like that, ask him

I literally instantly forgot

But it fixed a shit ton

[faint beacon]

Yup this

If you’re running modded it’s a big reason why

[umbral garnet]

FUCKIN FINALLY

[faint beacon]

Some mods make the game very unstable for some reason

NumericUI

Is one of them, crash commonly when trying to run it

[uncut pebble]

Deadly accurate + surgical or puncture + the one that lets it explode at close range.

[faint beacon]

I’d say wait for it to update before using it

[uncut pebble]

The second one is most useful on zealout when using scourge. Otherwise, get the first roll.

It's a bit easier to do the first one for vet; getting elite damage will let you 1tap both gunner types to the head if you've got superiority complex.

So you have a perk slot freed up.

If you want gunner 1taps on other classes I think you have to have both unarmored and flak damage.

[somber axle]

This makes sense as to why some people were upset about the update stability

BUT THE CLOWN IS FREE

no mod life saved me from crashing

[faint beacon]

Minimal modding keeps it stable

Just lots of screen changing shit will cause it to crash

Why I’m not touching numericUI till I see it get updated

[bronze trout]

Interesting to hear, I've just been using numeric ui, scoreboard, and true level and haven't had any freeze's or crashes

[faint beacon]

I think it could be a combo of too many mods also

[uncut pebble]

I have many mods installed and I haven't been crashing. Had one fatal error from running out of memory but that was because darktide was running for a very long time.

[faint beacon]

Cause literally the moment I turn it on it goes to shit

And crashes every match

[bronze trout]

What are the good DB blessings?

[tall torrent]

Manstopper + both barrels

[faint beacon]

Honestly I have no clue

But I know both barrels is good

[faint beacon]

Isn’t the cleave already good or just does it make it completely fucked or something with MS

Also heard H&R is good if you’re playing far more aggressively with the DB and are constantly on the move

[mellow adder]

This worth picking up for 3.4k?

[faint beacon]

Yeah, you can very easily fix it

[tall torrent]

Manstopper allows u to 1 tap all maulers standing in front of u in 6m range

[faint beacon]

Pox to Flak and Shred to…

Was it savage or rampage?

[mellow adder]

This is what I use but wouldn't mind trying the other variant

[tall torrent]

Bloodletter to wrath, pox to flak

[faint beacon]

Oh it’s a 12g

Yeah keep wrath

And Bloodletter to wrath

[tall torrent]

13g is not as good as mk4 but it’s not so much worse now

[faint beacon]

Still a decent CS nonetheless

It’s basically horde light spam from what I recall

[last parcel]

very decent counterstrike

[faint beacon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/285880764493725696/1182441598177529887/CEOofIsaacs_-_1732130722050388479.gif

[faint beacon]

Yeah that’s a useable/good Chainsword

[mellow adder]

Haven't played in a while, whats the difference with the new CS?

[faint beacon]

Good horde clear lights

Heavies are strike downs

Meant for single targets

The one you had originally the IV

Is good horde clear heavies

Its basically a difference in moveset but drastically effect how they perform

[muted knot]

So Like how IS the new Powermaul ?

[faint beacon]

Shock mauls?

[muted knot]

And what Blessings do i want

Yes

Gonna Roll me one to give IT a try

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[faint beacon]

So they best load out for them is the Mk III, Skullcrusher + High Voltage

Typical perk load out from what I can recall

Flak/Maniac/Unarmored

They’re pretty damn fun though

[mellow adder]

These still best for a sniper shotty?

[faint beacon]

If this is the slug variant

Yeah you’ll bully the hell out of crushers and ragers

[mellow adder]

yhea it is lol

[idle pecan]

what would be a good way to build this

[last parcel]

punishing --> headhunter

[modest estuary]

someone show me their fancy new rolled shotty so i know what blessings to pick

im incapable of making my own decisions

[umbral garnet]

Go for both reload blessings, simple.

Who cares about damage

[modest estuary]

there are multiple reload blessings?

i just knew the one

both barrels and what

[umbral garnet]

For the newest shotty, there's Both Barrels and Speedload.

[modest estuary]

ohh right

[umbral garnet]

Turn your shotgun into a machine gun

[junior needle]

Unyielding suboptimal, reload bad, punishing bad, only t3 infernus

Change punishing to hh and reload to something else like flak/maniac/crit chance

[muted knot]

How is the boltpistol ?

And what Blessings are we looking at ?

[faint beacon]

A more mobile bolter with no penetration

It’s useable and fun

But it’s get overshadowed by “He who shall not be named”

[tall torrent]

@junior needle I got good news for u

recon's accuracy under suppression got buffed

[junior needle]

I'm getting euthanized?

Aww man

Well that is good news too

[austere mica]

Should I roll a bolt pistol for vet or zealot

[tall torrent]

lemme record

[vast whale]

Have they ever done a Kasrkin cosmetic for the vet?

[faint beacon]

Like for a first?

Cause honestly both do good with it

[celest rock]

I noticed that earlier

Returning fire at gunners under suppression felt pretty fucking good tbh

[tall torrent]

it's buffed by a bit

[eternal flare]

is one of the blessing for the shotgun not working

[austere mica]

I don’t actually have very many generic sniping builds on vet

So I’ll probably roll one there

[tall torrent]

if ur suppressed by 8+ gunners u still get pretty wild shot spread

[faint beacon]

Probably do Vet with like Surgical + Deadly Accurate

[austere mica]

I feel like the pistol preforms better than the actual bolter for sniping because of deadly accurate

[austere mica]

I know how to roll one

[eternal flare]

the blessing "both barrels" is not triggering

[austere mica]

When I first saw the blessings I was just like “welp, surgical weakspot it is”

[tall torrent]

unless ur getting suppressed by multiple gunners at the same time, the accuracy is pretty tolerable

@junior needle

[junior needle]

Not the longest duration firing

https://imgur.com/a/recon-suppression-MnVC51a

Here's what it used to be

[faint beacon]

Cause apparently BP can actually instakill with superiority complex talent those blessings and Exe stance

[austere mica]

Against what?

[faint beacon]

Against crushers

[austere mica]

Jesus

[faint beacon]

Click on head

Win

[austere mica]

Better than revolver for that I guess

[tall torrent]

Ik it has the shot spread

it still has spread if ur getting suppressed by multiple gunners

[faint beacon]

Revolver is technically “better” just cause you can fire it quicker

BP has slow RPM and extreme recoil

[austere mica]

Too bad my aim is shit and that doesn’t help

[rapid palm]

im waiting untill the crafting update to build any new weapons

just grind mats untill then

[wise fossil]

the pellets glide smoothly into the flesh. No stagger whatsoever

Helbore have suppression immunity? Just found that in the pinned guide

neat