veteran-class

[fading grove]

Shovel is one of the best horde clearing, and has more dodge distance than the knifes.

[torn gorge]

best horde clearing is a bit of an overstatement

[fading grove]

I said one of

Not the best

[torn gorge]

worse than a dclaw

[winter grove]

I wouldn't say one of the best either

Standard maybe

But that one has shit dmg vs armor

[fading grove]

It doesn’t if you have the rending on weak spot hit perk

Literally cuts through armor

[winter grove]

Other shovels do be better at killing armor

Because they fold

[thick kestrel]

pardon went into a round there, are you meaning walkers or bursters?

because aye, the bolt pistol won't oneshot pox walkers from a hipfire shot with the loadout I mentioned... but that's not really what you fight pox walkers with?

[urban steppe]

which mk shock maul better ?

mk 3 right ?

[pallid jetty]

better at what

[woeful ibex]

I mostly go for Anti-hordes for my bolt pistol

they're really good at staggering pox walkers and sometimes the scab/dreg melee

[urban steppe]

between this 2 version :v

[pallid jetty]

wanna craft this one too, with same blessings

[pallid jetty]

???

they both are good

[real pumice]

I'm really struggling with the shock baton. I'm thinking about just leaving it and going back to the shovel. Probably I'm just not getting the moveset right. It just feels unwieldly

[balmy flume]

meanwhile here is me still clutching on a P Sword

[dire olive]

Literally just pick which attack pattern you prefer

I like the square head one

[urban steppe]

im thinking about mk 3 his heavy all up down and light attack have a high dmg which will help me to clear hords waves faster and that is what i need because im plasmagun main yeh xD

[tropic imp]

Same moveset as devil claw 4, except the heavy 2 cannot be buffered as easily which makes you drop the horde clear combo often

Might be a bug or maybe I'm also not used to it's speed

[thick kestrel]

as a wee trick, you can go push-attack -> light attack -> heavy attack to restart the horde fighting combo rather than stopping to reset it all

but yeah, for the bolt pistol it certainly doesn't have a good time trying to oneshot bodyshot pox walkers. but that isn't really it's job:

it's just a big one handed "F*ck you" cannon for prolonged gunfights

which kind of makes it seem overshadowed by the revolver? but the revolver is more a single target elimation tool with a long reload downtime.

the Bolt Pistol is more for shooting for longer time periods and taking down gunners and shooters from a distance. that might be a less useful job overall in such a melee focused game but it's still a reasonable role for a ranged weapon.

honestly considering the new map having a tool to let you fire shots down range to tackle gunners at the end of a big wide open space isn't an awful thing to have ^^

(that whole section after riding the wee train car can turn into aboslute hell if you're not prepared to dive all the gunners or counter shoot them effectively)

[bitter turtle]

as viable as revolvers

revolvers are top 2 gun

if that's your standard then no

the only guns you can play are plasma/revolver/ciag

enjoy

[toxic leaf]

vet is in such a weird spot, i think. ciag, plasma, and revolver are 3 like the top 3 best weapons in the game. voc is probably the best ability in the game. using none of those, the vet is pretty flimsy.

like an infiltrate vet using a bolt pistol or some such. good build. but is it worse than zealot in every way? idk, you tell me

[thick kestrel]

I don't think so honestly, infil Vet does have a lot of crossover with Zealots in terms of playstyle but is shifted a little more over towards ranged than the more heavy melee focus Zealots go for.

they both dive to take out gunner nests and the like, but the stealth Veteran has a lot more freedom of movement for things like rescues or disengaging to go after particular targets as well as being generally more rounded overall.

again it's a case of just because something isn't the best possible option, doesn't mean it's useless or not worth playing.

heck even Executioner stance Veterans have a solid job to play even if they're somewhat fragile. Exestance Vet with a good Helbore can do a lot to protect the team from snipers, shooters and reapers.

[toxic leaf]

right, that's not to say it cant be used, which is just silly

but more like vet has a lot of shortcomings taht are sort of papered over by the fact that most builds run like 2 of the most power guns and ability in the game

is my opinion

[thick kestrel]

for people meta-chasing perhaps aye

[bitter turtle]

i dont really agree

vet has a lot of melee power

[thick kestrel]

but that's kind of true of every class?

[bitter turtle]

there are a lot of dmg ups

[regal belfry]

power sword and shovel

[bitter turtle]

shovel isnt meta

[regal belfry]

it is good though

[bitter turtle]

and either way you dont even need to use psword to feel how strong vet melee dmg is

[thick kestrel]

Psykers cuddling their Void and Trauma staves along with thier force swords

[bitter turtle]

every single melee on vet is good except chainaxes and dclaws which are just ok imo

[regal belfry]

gunpsyker with duelist mk4 sword

[toxic leaf]

gun psyker is very strong, bubble/shield is pretty pog in histg now

ogryn can run literally anything because all of their power is in their tree

[regal belfry]

i like personally striker or tank ogryn

[thick kestrel]

the new picks are gloriously fun on Ogryn it should be mentioned... buddy is running the "medium" pick with a ton of extra impact and is just bullying EVERYTHING in melee ^^

[toxic leaf]

anyways thats my personal feeling

[thick kestrel]

fair enough, I think it's a little too narrow personally on my end

but then I think people are too down on Executioner stance in general.... so I'm probably an outlier

[regal belfry]

i like personally shout most stealth is missing stuff

stealth should enable more damage for short time or one shot

[maiden tapir]

Shout does most of what stealth does so half the time I use stealth I think I might as well use shout

[junior needle]

stealth is too point heavy like exe

[umbral scaffold]

Idk

Yeah I agree with it being point heavy

[junior needle]

Shout gets what you want with 1 point

[umbral scaffold]

Should have the dmg increase baked in

[regal belfry]

i invest 2 though overshield is usefull

[umbral scaffold]

But I do like the 90% less threat, the gunners are my teams problem not mine

[frank monolith]

Vet kbifee 2 shotting a ceusher in the hedge

[regal belfry]

i think have two points invested in executioner stance aswell

[umbral scaffold]

My mentality with my teammates being murdered

At least I throw em a smoke grenade

[regal belfry]

i am like before i revive i kill first all higher threats like specials or elites which are near

[umbral scaffold]

I revive them in stealth while they are swamped with enemies

I wanna see them survive against all odds

[regal belfry]

i do that as zealot or i shout enemys down and then revive

[tame void]

i love the first 2 seconds of loading

[fierce steeple]

I love stealth vet. With 3 x +10% rev speed curios and the in tree rev talent, you can pick people back up stupid quick. Add in shredders x 4 with 1 min CD and the elite/special kill regen you become a walking mortarman in aurics. Ive run tons of different guns on that build but if you slap plasma on top of all that you can solo aurics np.

Stealth with the x2 charge talent lets you get around and replenish toughness/create space whenever its needed, and on aurics the CD increase is totally negated by the special kills time reduction talent.

[junior needle]

Bethesda writing is bad

I remember playing vanilla fo3 and getting that

[umbral scaffold]

True

It’s my fav line tho

When ur coworker asks you to cover a shift

[valid bear]

how tf does the on overwatch penance work? i swear i didnt get hit once but i still didnt get it

[pseudo fiber]

Did you get grabbed by a dog?

[junior needle]

Even if the dog jumps near you and you get 1 corruption

it doesn't count

Also you have to be in the game from the lobby, joining midgame doesn't work

And if you disconnect it doesn't work either

[mossy monolith]

whats a good Curios to put on veteran and the perks

is it 2 tough and 1 health?

[valid bear]

damn i did join midgame

didnt get hit by a dog though

that suckjs

[nimble wadi]

For bolt pistol what’s a good blessing that pairs with surgical

[pseudo fiber]

Deadly accurate

[thick kestrel]

Deadly Accurate does well

[pseudo fiber]

1 health 1 stam 1 toughness is what I use

[thick kestrel]

makes those crit headshots do terrible terrible things :>

[nimble wadi]

Cool thanks

For bolt pistol should I do flakiac or maniac/elite

[thick kestrel]

the latter it seems

it really doesn't need help against flak

and maniac/elite lets you get Rager oneshot headshots

or 2 crit body shots

[nimble wadi]

Cool thanks

Is deadly accurate III ok or should I try for 4

[valid bear]

what mission is recommended for getting on overwatch done?

[pseudo fiber]

A short one I did mine on enclaves baross so it can be anything really

Magistrat oubilette that's short

[tender pasture]

Pick stealth vet or shout vet, it's way easier these days than it was in the past

[hollow warren]

Nooo.. why did they change his drip?

He was the only dude in green uniform

Now he's like all the rest

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah he seems he finally got a new uniform

[junior needle]

Lethal explosion only does about 58~ damage at best and lowers with proximity, and also it doesn't apply puncture in an area.

The bistol also doesn't have any cleave

While it's also a bad idea to use your gun to clear chaffe outside of emergencies, that's one of the worst guns you could take for doing it

[torn gorge]

🅱️istol

[thick kestrel]

I do think that latter part is a shame... the boltpistol having a wee side job as a mass bleed aplicator could be really cool.

though giving us a boltpistol firing shredder grenades might be a fair reason to.. not give us one ^^

[hollow warren]

This looks like a fun toy to upgrade. Wouldn't be nice if anyone were to brick it, right?

[quick burrow]

all i know is that since i got the new cosmetic gear im all in on the vet but i do use the Ciag and voc mainly

[valid bear]

Does toughness count when getting hit? on overwatch penannce

[junior needle]

nope

you get one free hit

at max toughness

if you take chip damage it's ogre

[thick kestrel]

gods these faster attacking Dreg Ragers are kicking my arse atm ^^

fail to spot them coming and they'll just rend you to pieces

[torn gorge]

shoot em in the face

[valid bear]

ok then I really dont understand. I just did enclaves baross from start to finish and took no melee damage. I did get hit once but I did have 100% toughness

[thick kestrel]

time to pull the Devilsword back out most likely, when in doubt parry as much as possible and hope you come out of the other side of the 12 ragers alive ^^

[untold moth]

I think the recon 2 might be better than 7, but the ammo economy on the 7 is so cozy

The 6 is still my favorite.. but ammo economy is terrible in comparison to the others.

Outside of auric ammo is probably not a concern. And if you’re running with at least 1 psyker it shouldn’t be an issue

Still hate the veteran skill tree though. Wish I could play more of the old vet

Thankfully, they gutted my favorite parts of zealot, so veteran is improved in contrast

[umbral garnet]

Just jump off a ledge at the start of a match and have your team carry you.

[grand perch]

good god playing DT without directional sound is a nightmare

cant wait to get the repair parts for my proper headset

[junior needle]

2 has the best ammo economy if you don't factor in the cleave

7a is second best on paper but the cleave will get you better performance on groups of chaffe or shooting through mixed hordes for priority targets

[junior needle]

Were you in the game from the start, at the right difficult, and not dc?

[grand perch]

im just glad recon rifles dont feel so awful anymore

[junior needle]

It took years of me bitching about it and making a "these guns are shit please stop using them on chaffe" campaign

But the results have paid off

Not the redesign I was hoping for and there still needs to be some tweaking though

[grand perch]

i dunno, with high ROF weapons its easy to overtune them? im just happy to have more ok quality choices

[wise fossil]

finally got around to trying the shock mauls - the Agni is beautiful

they're both good, but the agni moveset is so convenient

[untold moth]

The 2 feels really really good right now

[junior needle]

It's easier to tune automatics, especially lower damage per shot ones, because breakpoints are of zero concern

[carmine cradle]

yall got any infantry autogun builds?

[junior needle]

It needs a little more dps? Just give it a bit more damage

[valid bear]

I DID IT

https://tenor.com/view/rage-emoji-rage-gif-2922587064166244739

[quick burrow]

EVERYONE JUST LOVES THE RECON RIFLES DONT THEY?

[untold moth]

These are my recons currently.

[junior needle]

Headhunter is mandatory

[untold moth]

This is the build I’ve settled on for the 2 and 6

It’s not.

[junior needle]

Wait a second

You aren't taking shocktrooper

I should've looked at that harder

That's uh, an interesting setup. I suppose headhunter has less value if you aren't taking shocktrooper but like, why.

It's the only thing that feasibly gives them an edge over iag's

[quick burrow]

so the mk2 is the one to go for?

[untold moth]

I just don’t feel like ammo sustain is worth the trade off

[junior needle]

2 or 7a

Trade off of what?

[untold moth]

Of not needing to go left side

[junior needle]

You're taking a very large amount of ammo

[untold moth]

No one else needed it in those. It’s auric damnation.

I will concede that shocktrooper is probably necessary for the 6

Because it does run out of ammo too fast

I don’t go onslaught with the 7 either. I go and pick up 30% weakspot and 25% more ammo

[junior needle]

It's a lot of value you're not tapping into with HH/shock, and infernus is also lower value without the crit printer blessing.

Even in situations where your team just doesn't use ammo, it would let you fire that much more carelessly

[untold moth]

I disagree. I feel headhunter is over valued

[quick burrow]

is it salvagable or should i keep rollin

[junior needle]

It's a massive extension of your ammo pool, as well as more damage. But I can check the dps difference.

[untold moth]

If you’re going infernus, higher % damage to enemies is > higher crit chance.

[junior needle]

Reload speed is a dud, and you don't really want infernus on the 7a

[quick burrow]

dang lol

mk2 wants infy?

[untold moth]

Is optional on mk2 preference

[junior needle]

The 2 and 7a are better served with dumdum/HH

[quick burrow]

i know very little about recons

ah thanks il aim for that

[untold moth]

6 is only one that wants infernus 100%

[quick burrow]

if u had to pick 1 the mk2 or mk7? haha

[junior needle]

Infernus is a sidegrade to dumdum on the 6d

[quick burrow]

i only have so many ordos

[untold moth]

I’d say 7

[junior needle]

Their dps is about the same, but infernus has lower value on weaker targets

But infernus also doesn't fall off at range

[untold moth]

If you go infernus you want 25% maniacs with it, it helps a lot with a lot of the specialists

[junior needle]

Damage perks do affect dot damage currently

[untold moth]

Less important now though, recons used to do very very bad maniac damage

Rending and brittleness also effects dot damage.

[junior needle]

But crit chance is fine too because of faster applications and shocktrooper synergy, 5% crit is effectively 9.5% on recons because of strings

[wraith locust]

what build do you run w the 2

[junior needle]

That highly depends on what grenades/ability/keystone (if any) you want to take

[quick burrow]

im assuming u want stagger as the dump on the recon

[junior needle]

The only stats that really matter on it are damage and ammo

The rest are superfluous

[quick burrow]

dam bricked

so close

[untold moth]

Collateral might matter for staggering pox bursters.. not sure though

[junior needle]

It's usable, just change DS and sprint efficiency

You preferentially want flak/maniac/crit chance for perks

[untold moth]

Deathsoitter to dumdum, spring to either flak/maniac/crit

[junior needle]

Crit chance assumes you are running shock trooper, which is strongly recommended

If not then crit chance has little value

[quick burrow]

unyielding is pretty bad on it though right?

[junior needle]

It's eh

[untold moth]

I like unyielding with infernus lol

[junior needle]

Helps you on bosses/reapers/bulwarks but not nearly as good as flak/maniac

[untold moth]

But that’s a 7, so infernus is meh

[quick burrow]

im just gonna keep throwing resources into this

until i get a perfect one

then i can play a slightly different version of my god rolled Ciag

[junior needle]

I'd suggest you use them first

To see which one you like

Before going hard on finding a 4/4

[quick burrow]

are they that different?

like the 2 and the 7

[junior needle]

They feel different

due to rof

[untold moth]

Honestly, take some decent ones or greys into the grinder, see how they feel

[junior needle]

Yep

A gun can be good but you can hate the feel of it

Like I do with helbores

[untold moth]

6 will likely feel the best, and simultaneously be the worst of the current iterations lol

[junior needle]

or ilas guns because of their bouncing

[thick kestrel]

aye, there are genuinely great weapons out there which you just might not enjoy using at all

[faint beacon]

Me with Plasma

[junior needle]

Agreed, the high rof and laser vomit feel great

But it had some very sus negative changes and the ammo efficiency is notably the worst

[faint beacon]

Probably change stamina to flak

[untold moth]

The 2 is imo the best middle ground

[thick kestrel]

I find helbores uncomfortable compared to kantreals and I genuinely dislike using the powersword... feels way too clunky

[quick burrow]

message unclear im 10k plasteel and 500k ordos down im gonna double down

[junior needle]

Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy

It's not gambling pride month

[quick burrow]

i hunt for perfect weapons i must has them

[untold moth]

Me every time I try to find surge blessing on my psyker

[junior needle]

Or is it?

[quick burrow]

the ones i use i tend to brute force into greatness

[untold moth]

I’m like 90k plasteel down looking for that blessing.. So much wasted mats

[frank ledge]

Gambling time

[quick burrow]

holy crap the recons are steady

[rain badger]

Is the game worth coming back to? Haven’t played in 6 months.

[quick burrow]

def and same

[rain badger]

What weapons are now viable?

[untold moth]

Depends. Might as well wait 3 more months if you have other stuff to play

Imo, most stuff on vet feels viable now.

[somber axle]

Yeah the Recons are all immensely different in how they feel to shoot even though performance is pretty similar across the board now.

DPS/TTK (single target)
Mk II > Mk VIIa > MK VId

DPS/TTK (multi target)
Mk VIIa > Mk VId > Mk II

DPS/TTK (carapace)
Mk VId > Mk VIIa > Mk II

Ammo Efficiency
Mk II > Mk VIIa > Mk VId

[quick burrow]

even if these guns arent as good as the CIAG if they have more ammo for me to play with thats a win

[rain badger]

I have around 750hrs. But since HD2 and having less interest in games I haven’t played

[somber axle]

If you like more ammo go Recon Mk VId

[faint beacon]

Yes and no, it’s more so lots of stuff you can do now to busy yourself seeing you haven’t played Path of Redemption and the newest update, crafting rework is coming post summer but they’ve shown off what’s to come in the dev logs

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk VIIa spends 2 ammo per shot

The Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VId spends 1 ammo per shot

[rain badger]

I have “god rolls” of most vet weapons, so deciding if I should come back or not.

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VIIa and Recon Mk VId spend ammo faster than the Recon Mk II BUT the Recon Mk VId has DOUBLE THE MAGAZINE SIZE

[quick burrow]

il prob go for the mk2 then i love me ammo efficiency

wat

[faint beacon]

If you haven’t played since after April you may as well, the penance grinding is useful to get out of the way

[quick burrow]

thanks for your help sneaky i like that little chart you made

and the rest of you always so helpful

[faint beacon]

Get some cosmetics and titles out of it

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId can get a magazine size of 180 ammo, Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa get a clip size of around 100

[rain badger]

Recons are better/good now?

[quick burrow]

dam another brick was my closest one yet though

[faint beacon]

This update the Omnissiah blessed us with Recon buffs

[somber axle]

They were given major buffs! They're good to play and very fun to use

[faint beacon]

They gave one of the variants over 1k In reserve ammo lmao

Actual pocket MG

[quick burrow]

thats the 6 right?

[somber axle]

The Recons are all good so I'd recommend trying all three out to see which style you enjoy most

[faint beacon]

I’m fluent in my HHA and IAGs sadly not recons so I have no clue lmao

[quick burrow]

is stability good on the recons?

[faint beacon]

Imo theyre what las rifle recoil should be

Borderline non-existent

[somber axle]

Stability and Mobility are dump stats. You really just want Mobility 51%+ but tbh they feel really good with 80% mobility to sprint and dodge with. Stability is kinda negligible so the stat can be whatever without changing performance much

Collateral is also a dump stat too depending on how much you value staggering enemies. With high collateral your volleys will stagger ragers

Which can be really fun just going full auto into rager packs and stunlocking them while you melt them to death

Damage and Ammo are the most important stats

[junior needle]

That one has the worst ammo efficiency, ironically

[junior needle]

Better, not iag tier in terms of performance but could feasibly have better ammo efficiency. Calculating the exact value of shocktrooper is very difficult.

[faint beacon]

Even with HH paired with Shocktrooper?

[junior needle]

All recons have hh and shocktrooper, and benefit the same

They all have crit strings of 2

So improvements to ammo efficiency would be even between models

[somber axle]

Also depending on how much you like full auto weapons you'll have a different number of shots to play with per weapon
Excluding shock trooper giving you additional shots per magazine through crits you'll have this many shots per clip/magazine dependent on ammo stat

Recon Mk VIIa: 50-54 shots
Recon Mk II: 100-108 shots
Recon Mk VId: 160-180 shots

Keep in mind that VIIa using 2 ammo per shot offsets the slow fire rate and the Mk VId's high rate of fire also offsets the high magazine somewhat

[quick burrow]

hows that for a build for them?

[junior needle]

The other two models objectively have better ammo efficiency, as you can see here. Their ADM's were standardized.

[junior needle]

Perfectly fine, I'd trade ogryn damage for the ping damage buff thing

[somber axle]

I made a big album of the various Recons and their performance vs Flak/Unyielding! I recorded clips of all variants on DPS/TTK/Ammo Efficiency tests vs Flak Ragers, Maulers, Reapers and Bulwarks and surprisingly the Mk II emerged as the absolute King of Recons

[junior needle]

I think it's called redirect fire?

Someone correct me

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId does enjoy the longest volleys though even with the faster rate of fire

Even the faster rate of fire doesn't give the Mk II an edge on the length of your volleys

but that's not really a big deal

[junior needle]

Keep in mind that strictly speaking onslaught isn't as efficient for the slower variants but still usable if you really want to

[somber axle]

it just means the Recon Mk VId can shoot for longer before needing to reload

Mk II is in the middle for length of fire before reloading

and Mk VIIa will reload the most often

how often you reload will be dependent on crits and shock trooper

so the time can vary across all weapons

[junior needle]

The 6d also received completely unwarranted nerfs to reload speed and handling

[quick burrow]

finally i knew i just had to keep throwing resources at it

[junior needle]

You move much slower while firing it than the others

[quick burrow]

punishing to headhunter stam to maniac

[junior needle]

maniac or crit chance, yes.

You can choose whichever you like best

[somber axle]

This is a really good build for the Recon Mk VId! But you don't need Onslaught for the Recon Mk VIIa. The slow rate of fire on the Recon Mk VIIa means it gets very little value from Onslaught so it's never worth taking for it. The Recon Mk II can get a bit of value from Onslaught but the increase to DPS/TTK is unnecessary unless you're trying to push it into doing better damage vs Crushers

Here lemme share these links again

[quick burrow]

oh i can drop onslaught for the mk2?

[somber axle]

Yeah you can save the points there

[quick burrow]

that makes my build way easier to run

thanks!

[somber axle]

You don't need Onslaught for it

Onslaught is really just for the Recon Mk VId

Also! If you'd like to see some recordings of weapon testing...

https://imgur.com/a/xsBMAkG

https://imgur.com/a/Aakg9Ef

https://imgur.com/a/FZg3YUu

This took a weird amount of time to record LOL

[junior needle]

Just remember your crusher performance won't be great without onslaught so take a melee that can deal with those

[somber axle]

You don't need to use my exact talent tree set up

[quick burrow]

oh u run exe stance

[somber axle]

Yeah but you don't have to run Exe Stance on the Recons

It's just personal preference

I like it on them for the extra damage

[quick burrow]

dam i usually just run the chain sword

but i guess i can run something stronker

[junior needle]

Sneaky runs a gigajuice setup and tests with exe and temp buffs active, so don't expect anywhere close to that.

[faint beacon]

Isn’t sunder on PSs actually good now

[somber axle]

Exe Stance also provides suppression immunity and gives the weapon additional impact damage for better stagger

But you can very comfortably run Recons with Voice of Command or Infiltrate

[junior needle]

Since when does it give stagger

[somber axle]

The Recons will still do good damage even without Exe Stance

[faint beacon]

Like it came across to me, well power swords are good at crusher killing

And they did buff sunder

[frank basin]

Sweet I seen that

What stats they buff sunder?

[somber axle]

This is true! I like playing high damage talent set ups so I optimize my builds for crit/rending to synergize better with Shock Trooper

But you don't need to min-max damage to make the Recons perform well

I run Deadshot + Triple Stamina curios but that's absolutely unnecessary for them

It's just extra fun for my playstyle

[frank basin]

I Think two stamina curio is enough

[somber axle]

Pick the grenade, ability and keystone you like most with the Recons

[frank basin]

And 3 stamina regen is helpful

[somber axle]

I've considered getting +2 stamina as a perk on my Recon Mk VId because the new rate of fire chews through my stamina REALLY fast

I could have a total of 18 stamina with that perk!

I love Deadshot uptime

[frank basin]

+2 stamina and 5% crit boost

[somber axle]

If you're not going for Deadshot memes on the Recon Mk VId then you definitely do not need to use triple stamina curios

[frank basin]

I think +2 stamina perk is quite small

[junior needle]

It's also a pain to sustain that for non-masochists, especially on the 6d.

[frank basin]

Need buff up +4

[somber axle]

It's surprisingly good but also very niche. Like for combat knife the +2 stam means you can run toughness/hp curios and ignore stamina curios because you'll have enough stamina for push attacks/blocking on the knife with that perk

I like the extra 2 stam for more Deadshot uptime on the Recon Mk VId

[faint beacon]

Sunder is the T4 blessing of Brittleness on Powered Swings but now it also has 20% Heavy Att Damage

[somber axle]

It's a pain for masochists too which is why I want the +2 stam perk LOL

But it's good pain or I wouldn't do it

[faint beacon]

So it COULD be good?…

Idk I’d need to test it when I’m home

Currently working

[frank basin]

Isn’t sunder are increasing cleave attack?

[junior needle]

Sunder does not apply brittleness

[faint beacon]

Honestly could be, I might be getting it mixed

[junior needle]

It's the cleave

[faint beacon]

Oh damn

[junior needle]

Supercharge is the brittle, and effectively useless

[faint beacon]

they need to change supercharge

But nonetheless Sunder is probably fucked on PS now isn’t it

[frank basin]

Sunder is alright use for my horde clearing

Spamming light energize attack

[somber axle]

Oh also! Change Punishing Salvo to Headhunter, change +2 stam to maniac or crit chance and the weapon is PERFECT!

[junior needle]

The heavy damage added is only relevant for the mk3 peesword as far as I'm aware

[frank basin]

I use mk3 light energize spam attack tho

[faint beacon]

It does have vertical heavies

[junior needle]

Stop copies me #veteran-class message

[faint beacon]

Or horizontal excuse me

[frank basin]

Vertical push attack

[somber axle]

You know I'm illiterate so I didn't even see that

[faint beacon]

But yeah Sunder would make it good seeing it’s more heavy focused

[junior needle]

Brudal is still the best chaffe clear but it's an added bonus if you already wanted sunder

[frank basin]

Can’t kill the ogryn that fast with verticals push attack

Yeah I have locked sunder and modded power cycler

[junior needle]

mk3 ps doesn't have the good push attack

So you'd just heavy spam

[frank basin]

And you will said the mk6 does

[junior needle]

Me?

[frank basin]

Yes

[faint beacon]

Hold on you’re telling me I can make a PS that isn’t just “me millionth power cycler” by using BM and Sunder

[junior needle]

Mk6 does have the good push attack

[frank basin]

[faint beacon]

I kid you not that’s 90% of why I don’t run PSs

[frank basin]

A single sunder believe is enough

BM horde clearing tool

[faint beacon]

It’s you run power cycler or don’t use them

[frank basin]

But I run power cycle with sunder

[junior needle]

Auric 5's btw, seen in the wild

[faint beacon]

Might…

[frank basin]

Rare

[faint beacon]

Steal that off you

[frank basin]

His sword is horde killing then

[quick burrow]

whats a good anti crusher melee weapon for vetty

[frank basin]

High horde killing stuff

[junior needle]

Not that well

[quick burrow]

does the chain axe do good or nah

[frank basin]

Chainaxe is okay for my use

[faint beacon]

Actually yeah BM + Sunder would work similarly it’s just 4%+ power off vs Slaughter

[frank basin]

I keep them as style

[sharp epoch]

no power cycler is bad

[junior needle]

Knife (heavies/push attacks to the head) and psword do pretty good damage

[frank basin]

Psword push attack mk6

Do poky

[faint beacon]

If built correctly chain axe can one shot revved heavy crushers

Usually need WS keystone though

[junior needle]

Chainaxe is generally unpopular for its chaffe clear and feel however

[stark hollow]

is this a good bolt pistol?

[faint beacon]

Ogryn killer that’s a start

Might need to completely change the Blessings

[frank basin]

I would need max stack slaughter and headtaker in order for two hit pox walker

[stark hollow]

no idea what blessings are even good on it

[faint beacon]

4 most discussed would be Puncture, Lethal Prox (more of a joke build), Deadly Accurate, Surgical

Bet if you did DA and Surgical

You could drop Ogryns pathetically quick

[frank basin]

That every IAG and also boltgun

The first one is unique

[stark hollow]

ah

[faint beacon]

That and I realize it’s Unyielding

Meaning you’ll kill Bosses quicker as well

[frank basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1079235834777186406/1256520453917376564/image.png?ex=6681115d&is=667fbfdd&hm=3f1df8fadd7ae8d65e71ecff6eac606223719fa8a0a7c881cc1c8f10e7fd72ad&

[stark hollow]

welp gotta wait for that new update when the release the locks i guess

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/far-cry-release-me-joseph-seed-gif-12887358985963630884

[somber axle]

I made a build that 1HKOs Crushers too!

[quick burrow]

wat u want on the mk6 in terms of blessin/perks

pwrs

[odd sparrow]

maniac, elites

power cycler
brutal momentum, or sunder.

brutal gives more 1shot potential and horde clear, sunder is better for cleaving groups of chunkier targets like maulers

[somber axle]

Hey is anyone else seeing loadouts getting scrambled for cosmetics/weapons when swapping between them?

It's really weird seeing stuff just get randomized LMFAO

[odd sparrow]

i prefeer brutal

[frank basin]

Do you have weapon customization mod on?

[somber axle]

I do not run mods so it isn't a conflict with any mods

[stark hollow]

damn even this revolver ive been using cant one hit em

[tall torrent]

pls change ur crosshair

[somber axle]

I keep forgetting to look at that

[tall torrent]

it takes <20s

[somber axle]

It can but probably requires more damage talents to hit 1HKO

[somber axle]

Yeah but I always forget

[tall torrent]

write a memo for it or smth

[frank basin]

Oh you said one hit not can’t hit?

Misread

[stark hollow]

they are left with a tiny sliver of health

[junior needle]

Nope, try validating your install on steam

[stark hollow]

as much as i do like the new weapons, the bolt pistol does not feel like 2 years of work

[sharp epoch]

it is

[quick burrow]

okay so the recon lasgun is super fun

but its to fun

[rose ingot]

Worth upgrading or nah?

[faint beacon]

Yes absolutely

I see Surgical and Maniac you’re already doing good

[rose ingot]

Thought as much

[faint beacon]

Forget if it’s Flak or Unarmored that’s needed

[rose ingot]

Flak

Unarmored is is kinda redundant

[tall torrent]

unarmored

[stark hollow]

is rending recon back?

[faint beacon]

Unarmored breakpoint I’d assume

[tall torrent]

HB2 needs unarmored for dreg gunner 1hs non-crit

[junior needle]

Not anything like patch 13 but they're better now

[tall torrent]

flak has little value for this gun breakpoint-wise

[faint beacon]

Surgical + Onslaught

Maniac + Unarm

Boom perfect

[rose ingot]

Oh did not know that

Noted

I’ll swap in the right stuff

Didn’t roll it unfortunately

[junior needle]

Also, the basic dreg shooters are doing 168 toughness damage with a volley on damnation before damage reduction.

A single dreg shooter

One volley

[tall torrent]

aren't those stalkers

[stark hollow]

eh if the weapon has good base stats its worth keeping, seeing as they plan to remove the locks

[tall torrent]

dreg has no shooter

[stark hollow]

although if its fatshark timing it might take a year

[rose ingot]

Oh do they? So we won’t be locked to just 2 mods?

[stark hollow]

ye

[junior needle]

They are called dreg stalkers, yes. I just refer to the chaffe ranged as shooters though

[stark hollow]

<@&1016280507073441843> Heyo, popping in here to clear up a couple things. As mentioned last week, we are continuing to iterate on the system with further player feedback and testing. The article shared an outdated WIP and it does not represent the final version.
I can let you in on this secret though: we are removing the locks in the itemization update. 🔓

[wise fossil]

the game just spawned me in on a ledge

that's got to take the cake

[junior needle]

There's more enemies named stalker than shooter so you could make a point that all of them could be called stalkers

[tall torrent]

the stalker change was that they'll stay in cover longer if suppressed, and they have shorter CD between sprays
the shooter change was boosted spray accuracy (more threatening at range)

[junior needle]

Well I tested a scab shooter and it didn't do nearly as much damage at once

[slow spade]

I'

I'

m hitting headshots too often

it is time to up the difficulty

[faint beacon]

200%

Where’s the screen shake

[tall torrent]

because it's accuracy bonus for them, not dmg bonus

[faint beacon]

Where’s the motion blur

[tall torrent]

switch to heavy crosshair

[slow spade]

got it comrade

hell yeah

[junior needle]

I haven't noticed them as a problem tbh, the dregs on the other hand

Obliterating my toughness

[slow spade]

I only hit a crusher head 3/8 shots

[junior needle]

I'm pretty sure they did not do that much damage before

[slow spade]

I'm Auric Maelstrom ready

[slow spade]

they're definitely fucking me up

[tall torrent]

smoke meta, let's go

[slow spade]

I took this talent so I can duel better vs shooters

works often enough

[rose ingot]

I dig the new bolt pistol, but I want to be better at using it. What is it good for, what is it bad for?

[slow spade]

also holy shit +100% more screen shake was a mistake

[slow spade]

bolter with less ammo and cannot rapid fire

but faster draw speed and higher damage per shot potential

its objectively a worse Zarona revolver

so if you've used the Zarona revolver, you get what you're using

just with more recoil and worse damage

[tall torrent]

good:
breakpoints aren't bad, decent draw speed, ok bodyshot dmg

bad:
significant recoil in hipfire & ADS, much slower hipfire firerate than ADS, no cleave through, small mag size

[midnight totem]

It's objectively an agrippina revolver sidegrade

[slow spade]

I wish we could fan the hammer on the bolt pistol UwU

[tall torrent]

Firing mode for boltpistol:
96 RPM (single, hipfire)
128 RPM (single, ADS)
1 ammo/shot

[slow spade]

yeah I found it weird it fires slower in hipfire

[tall torrent]

it has the 3rd~4th slowest firerate in the game when u hipfire

slowest = plasma charge shot (27rpm)
2nd slowest = plasma uncharged shot (75rpm)
3rd slowest = kantrael shotgun reg shot (92rpm)
4th slowest = boltpistol hipfire (96rpm)

[vernal harbor]

idk what the peanut gallery believes, but smoke grenades are damn near better than krak or frag atp on auric maelstrom

when im out of smoke grenades its mogadishu

https://tenor.com/view/black-hawk-down-situation-talking-guns-protect-gif-20281236

[junior needle]

The loner zealots are the difference between life and death now

Being able to slip into the backline and handle the shooters/gunners

Oh how the turntables

[vernal harbor]

not so fast

those femboys can stay at home

vet does all, thats our motto guys cmon

[junior needle]

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-tequila-joseph-crossdessing-gif-27011020

[weak token]

i think i overloaded the game with boltpistols

[junior needle]

I am a femman

But only on tuesdays

the misters of battle

[somber axle]

Normal shooters shoot more often and Gunners are more accurate with tighter spread on shots now so ranged enemies are now a proper threat! It's so good

Smokes, Psyker bubbles and suppression have a LOT more value especially during certain sections of the new map where cover is limited from the player side but enemies have a LOT of cover

If a Vet is prepared to deal with the enemy shooters it's a breeze

[weak token]

what, havent shooters always been a threat?

[somber axle]

which makes it EXTRA funny that the three meta weapons are the absolute worst at trying to deal with lots of non-elite ranged enemies LMFAO

[weak token]

like 1 proper volley takes away your entire toughness if u're a psyker

and that's just 1 dude

[junior needle]

Here's the current status of shooters, no TDR

The shooters weren't nearly as lethal for awhile now

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver, Plasma and even Columnus Infantry Autogun all struggle for dealing with hordes of non-elite ranged shooters behind cover for one reason or another. The first two don't have the ammo capacity or fire rate to justify spending shots down range at every non-elite gun pointed at the party. The Columnus Infantry Autogun kicks hard and is less accurate at longer ranges

[junior needle]

Not since near release when they also all had pushback

[somber axle]

They're all fantastic at anti-elite/anti-special

But they all struggle at fighting ranged hordes

[umbral scaffold]

feels like that one perk that gives a 1 second ranged immunity on kilss could be buffed slightly, as it stands its sorta useless because the up time is abysmal esp its close range kills 1.5 or 2 deconds would feel okay

[somber axle]

Not really. Before non-elite shooters were one of the lowest priority threats. They did very little damage and you could comfortably dodge every so often to avoid trouble with them. Now they have a MUCH better output so people take them more seriously

[umbral scaffold]

1 second is a nothing uptime compared to the time sometimes it takes. gimmick perk

[somber axle]

Lasguns all have the accuracy, ammo efficiency and damage to deal with both non-elite shooters and the whole host of specials/elites too

It's glorious

[weak token]

eh, depends on what weapon u use

assail stabs multiple times, which means 1 crit can proc it a few times, making it not 1 second but rather like, what, 2 to 3 seconds?

columnus with high fire rate, crit chance, and crit strings will extend that duration massively as well

and dueling sword? with shred?

and now that recon lasguns are back in the game..

[umbral scaffold]

i mean on crits thats cool ig but on a gun for close range kills ehh... like a band of pox walkers ? sure thats helpfull but gimmicky still at best just like on that other laspistol were it gives the same thing on weakspots hits but atleast that one is a little better

[weak token]

uh, what about poxwalkers?

idk what u mean about poxwalkers

[frank basin]

strap those femboy zealot 10 frag grenade, upon incapacitated self-explode to death.

[wind patio]

I’m personally addicted to the Vrak headhunter

Great at dealing with everything tbh

[umbral scaffold]

the infested enemies....

[weak token]

yea what about them

[thick kestrel]

oh yeah, I've been torn apart multiple times today by scab shooter teams who just spread out and create killboxes for the hordes to chase you into. it's awesome :>

[weak token]

u mean procing the crit dodge on them?

[umbral scaffold]

nuh huh

[wind patio]

How do I see the changes to enemies?

[thick kestrel]

genuinely feeling like we're getting the shift back to Veterans having a key role in controlling enemy shooters to protect the team again (I mean... they always have... but that was their original team role WAY back in the day)

[umbral scaffold]

well there the easiest to kill that perk rewards killing easily killed enemies over whats shooting you... its a bad perk, ratehr the the one with the laspistol where its HIT weakspots to trig it,

if anything thoses two perks should be geeared more like the latter

rewarding skill play

procs on anything killed in close range ranged,....

while the pistol one is weakspots hits

ranged immunity

thats any range and... good ?

[weak token]

oh, yea that one

[umbral scaffold]

the other is a a limiting perk idk why anyone would have it to proc it

[weak token]

yea gimmick perk

[umbral scaffold]

i think its hit and run specifically

yo

what's dump stat on rashad?

while the pistol one is ghost

i got 79-80 on all stats but mobility which sits at 43

[pearl granite]

just met this dude. literally the worst player I have ever met. ran straight ahead and ignore everything, leave the teammates behind and then die, quit the game

[umbral scaffold]

@soulgod

bro look its you

he not here

damn can a bro gaslight

😠

[pearl granite]

wait, he is famous?

[umbral scaffold]

any one else here too much dimanatine not enough plasteel ough

im punching the air

[quick burrow]

i nicknamed my junk air you monster

[pearl granite]

can I join you? if not, do a kick for me

[inner stirrup]

What weapons do the most damage to the twins?

[pearl granite]

not sure but when I did it, we use a team of 4 ogryns with achlys stubber 😂

non stop dakka

[inner stirrup]

Can’t argue with that

[open totem]

So, don't know if anyone here has given it a go where I'm kind of scared to, but have any of you tried out the Bolter since the patch? I'm sure it still feels like getting a massage with steel wool to make work at high levels, but is it at least a little better than when it was nerfed into the ground?

[umbral scaffold]

man

does like

the bolt pistol not like the dangling trinkets?

my game crashes from that

[open totem]

I've noticed the shock maul isn't a fan either with how much the trinkets clip through the handle

[umbral scaffold]

its got more pierce than the bolt pistol and less supression afaik

[umbral scaffold]

shock maul shock animation is not playing in 3rd person you just hit and are stickkied to the nemy for awhile

[open totem]

Why TF would the full bolter have less suppression than the pistol???

[umbral scaffold]

first thing i noticed abt the weapon switching views honestly

try it for yourself in liek psykanium youll see

[umbral scaffold]

im not sure but i think it mightve been the polt pistol having a aoe

i m not sure its sup

ill say test it yourself and see

[umbral scaffold]

(the alt attack of the shock maul onto an enemy)

[open totem]

I'll give it a shot. TBH, I guess I'm still just sore that the bolter has fallen so far out of favor. I don't sleep well at night knowing it gets outperformed by the revolvers

[umbral scaffold]

shredder auto pistol still dog?

im still waiting for a propper lmg

[slow spade]

bolter did get an ammo buff

[slow spade]

heavy stubbers

[umbral scaffold]

PLEASE

that or a hellgun

i like heavy weapons and vet class does NOT deliver

[open totem]

I saw that, and I am happy for it. Things is so ammo hungry right now it's insane. But it's the time to kill on elites/unyielding that is the sticking point for me

[umbral scaffold]

its actually sad

[open totem]

That coupled with the abysmal reload time

[slow spade]

one day

[umbral scaffold]

one day !

[burnt scroll]

is veteran even really that good :/

[open totem]

Hence my eternal pain with the current state of the Bolter. Right now the only "heavy" weapon we've got is the plasma gun.

[umbral scaffold]

anything for a medium - heavy stubber

[umbral scaffold]

yeah

[frank basin]

braced autogun is template lmg

[pearl granite]

dude look so smug firing his gun

[burnt scroll]

guys is it worth sticking to veteran or changing class

[frank basin]

thats up to you

[slow spade]

as he should

[open totem]

Vet can still be good. Running a plasma gun with Executioner's can melt if you've got people covering you. Problem is, without the shout it feels like you're made of rice paper

[slow spade]

lol

[burnt scroll]

like rice paper i think more like made of shit

[open totem]

that sounds like a you problem chief

[burnt scroll]

what if im just bad at veteran could that be a possibility ?

[slow spade]

Veteran has been the strongest class in Darktide for over a year

if you can't do well as Vet

I guess go to Ogryn or something

[open totem]

Though admittedly the survivor aura nerf hit pretty hard

[frank basin]

survivalist now just become niche tier

[open totem]

But back to @burnt scroll . Some of it is figuring out builds and which one fits your playstyle. If Vet's loadouts aren't fitting how you play, then you're obviously gonna struggle. Best to find which character does fit rather than just say "Class bad"

[frank basin]

but i still use it

[burnt scroll]

thanks drock i think ima try a different class whats the one that has the throwing knife ??

[open totem]

It still feels more useful than the other two, personally

[slow spade]

at least you don't get flamed for using the damage or speed aura anymore

[frank basin]

that internal cool down hurt my braced autogun

[open totem]

RIGHT!?

[open totem]

You're thinking of Zealot

[frank basin]

if they nerf to internal cooldown, perhaps increase percentage ammo obtain

[slow spade]

1% -> 10%

ez fix UwU

[frank basin]

fs going haggle it

8%

[open totem]

Yeah, the nerf felt very heavy-handed. Would've felt a lot nicer if it had gotten half the current nerf (either have the cd or doulbe the current %) and buffed the other two a bit to bring them all into par with each other

[frank basin]

ill wait when community using survivalist geting tired of it

and start complain

that's the process of change

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-monster-rotfl-gif-14520250

[open totem]

wait a damn second

No wonder we never get changes

We're fighting NURGLE!

[open totem]

And who is Nurgle's most hated god? You guessed it! The god of change!!!

[slow spade]

Tzeentch is actually working with Nurgle

why do you think 10% of all your bullets have "bad hit reg" UwU

[open totem]

https://tenor.com/view/18carat-run-bad-luck-truth-is-game-was-rigged-fallout-gif-14316707

[umbral scaffold]

think i might use grai autogun tbh

[open totem]

braced or infantry?

[umbral scaffold]

feels okay and reloads fast

[umbral scaffold]

braced...

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/rambo-first-blood-gif-23989356

this is graia braced

[open totem]

I get that. Thing spits lead like Niagra falls. Feels fun, but I prefer the Agripinaa's penetration myself

feels nice seeing 2 or 3 heretics go down to about the same number of bullets

[frank basin]

and you only have 45 boolet

[open totem]

That really the only thing I don't like about it

Then again, I also haven't touched the columnus braced... maybe I should roll one up later

[frank basin]

because you shooting an RPK

of course is 45 boolets

we alway wish to have 100-75 drum mag RPK

but we get banana mag

of 45 rounds

i love payday 2

[open totem]

getting a proper drum mag or belt-fed autogun would be so fun. But alas, this is Fatshark we're talking about

[frank basin]

i never heard they mention about belt fed gun

only ogryn has it

[open totem]

Yeah, I know. And it's part of the reason that gunlugger ogryn is my favorite way to play the class

[frank basin]

the only thing gunlugger suffer is ammo

and inaccuracy

high damage and close range, you'll never beat like gunners

they snipe across room at medium range still hitting you

even recoil make spread on stubber

[open totem]

Yup yup. But Ogryn isn't about accuracy. Ogryn is about "to whom it may concern." And if you can get lucky enough to pair up with a survivor vet while running the burst limiter override, you can sustain for a lot longer

[frank basin]

it do

[open totem]

Plus, I've personally been able to do some decent long distance shots if I don't play like an actual ogryn and just tap the trigger a couple times. It's not the most reliable thing in the world, obvi, but it gets the job done if no one else is looking at snipers/bombers/etc

[lusty sapphire]

Heh tell that to my kickback

Outsniping snipers

[open totem]

True, but it's not like you can bring a kickback and a stubber. And I like me my Emperium-sanctioned-dakka

[lusty sapphire]

Give lugger the ability to dual range

[open totem]

Fatshark needs to take a page from Borderlands 2's playbook and give us gunzerker ogryn!

[frank basin]

that wont not fit their game vision

you break the lore rule in the game

something like that

[open totem]

Hard to fit the vision of the blind

[frank basin]

but go crazy look fun

fs wouldn't like put random shit concept in warhammer universe for shit and giggle

like last time many people want fight chaos marine as boss

[open totem]

Why not? GW does it all the time, why shouldn't Fatshark?

[frank basin]

other disagree about chaos marine is strong in lore, and fs just want gameplay human vs human

[frank ocean]

I mean a single CSM could work with like a Death Guard Marine

[open totem]

On a more serious note, I get that. But there's only so much you can do with that type of enemy until it just gets repetitive. Having some more variety would do a lot to help make it fun to come back more often

[open totem]

I personally like the idea the Brickster had for that, make it an entire mission of cat and mouse with a plague marine

[frank ocean]

They're tanky AF, and we're already taking on Beasts of Nurgle and Chaos Spawns

Almost like he's Tyrant/Mr X from RE2 or 3

[open totem]

The main difference there is the marines aren't lobotomites

[frank ocean]

Just chasing you and you're just trying to get TF away

[umbral scaffold]

or any other bigger boss honestly

[frank basin]

marine are fast and agile

[umbral scaffold]

chaos obliterator or corrupted machinery

[open totem]

Not the death guard

[frank basin]

you wouldn't able outrun any marine

[umbral scaffold]

hunting you down with huge metal pincers...

[frank ocean]

Yeah Death Guard are slow AF

Their whole thing is "Slow, steady advance tanking everything"

[open totem]

And, y'know, plaguing everything in a 100 mile radius

[frank ocean]

That too

[umbral scaffold]

i could see them add in corrupted machinery engines tbh as a n enemy type

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/putin-walk-swag-walk-vladimir-putin-walking-gif-17513252

[frank ocean]

Chaos Dreadnaught

[umbral scaffold]

woulkd need new type and armor type would be what, unyielding or carapace

[open totem]

Now THAT would be terrifying

[umbral scaffold]

or somethign new

[frank basin]

damage dealt: immune

[frank ocean]

Also I'm working under the assumption that they can only use Nurgle based stuff in Darktide

[open totem]

Armor type: No.

[open totem]

same

or at least some minor undivided. That could actually make some interesting enemy variation

[umbral scaffold]

Undivided help to the nurglites wpuldnt be too far flinged compared to things ppl hyppothesise like genesteelers

[frank ocean]

Great Unclean One could be another boss type enemy if they really want to stay away from CSM/Dreadnaught stuff

[open totem]

Nah, GUO would be insta-death to rejects if we're trying to remain even slightly lore accurate

[umbral scaffold]

Daemon engines could be very well used

[open totem]

Some minor daemon engines could probably work

[umbral scaffold]

They can be of varying size too so

[frank ocean]

I mean we're already 4 manning these massive missions against thousands of enemies

[umbral scaffold]

If it fits

[frank ocean]

Along with killing stuff like BoN's and Chaos Spawns

But I get your point

[open totem]

Yeah, but these are mainly fodder enemies against rejects of "main character" status. Much as I hate to admit it, protagonist plot armor plays a part. And you can only take that so far within each tier of power. Even our main characters struggle at least a bit against hosts/beasts/spawn

We'd likely burn every resource we have on a Great Unclean One and still not be through half its health bar

[umbral scaffold]

I mean i dont know about yo7 but damnation isnt exactly a breeze through of thoses 1-3k enemies thrown at you most of the time

[open totem]

yup yup

[frank ocean]

So make it like an Orthos Offensive kind of deal, where we have to deal with it over the course of the mission instead of in one single fight

[umbral scaffold]

Think heresy and damnation as the more "canon diff"

[frank ocean]

Like the CSM thing could be you running and whittling them while figuring out how TF to deal with it fully

[umbral scaffold]

Atleast thats how i see it

[open totem]

That's what I'm suggesting with a Death Guard marine, working off of the premise suggested by Bricky. But if we swapped that to a Great Unclean One, that's either a suicide-exterminatus mission or a mission to just escape with our lives

[tall torrent]

Depends

Some maelstrom difficulties are definitely pushing the “canon” range

[umbral scaffold]

obviously

[frank ocean]

Could do something like Mr X in the RE2 remake, where you dont really "Kill" it, but stun it long enough for you to escape/put some distance between it and you

[umbral scaffold]

i mean the game si more or less balanced arround heresy diff

[open totem]

True, but "stunning" a Great Unclean One would likely take the 40k equivalent of a nuke

[umbral scaffold]

afaik

[tall torrent]

It’s balanced around damnation

All the breakpoints are balanced around damnation

[umbral scaffold]

people have said devs play heresy the most

[open totem]

After running each class through, it def feels more like damnation to me as well. It's the modifiers beyond that which make it feel more amped

[umbral scaffold]

im not sure ! idk !

[tall torrent]

Yes but the data they use to balance weapon breakpoints is almost exclusively for damnation

[umbral scaffold]

that i didtn know

[tall torrent]

Damnation enemies have on avg 1.33x more health than heresy enemies

[open totem]

If the devs have said anything to this effect, I'd be interested in seeing the interviews/source. Because then I know exaclty who to blame for my beloved bolter feeling like garbage to use in anything beyond low-intensity damnation

[frank ocean]

But also again, at the end of the day its a video game. I dont mind them stretching the lore a tiny bit if it creates a fun level

Like you just barely reaching the escape ship as the GUO gets there

[open totem]

I agree. But it's a very fine line to walk. Go too far, and it just ruins the feel. Don't go far enough, and it feels kinda bland

[frank ocean]

I still think it's been stretched plenty as is with the Rejects, what with how you're basically sent on suicide/near suicide missions constantly as part of the Penal legion

[open totem]

I mean, in that regard my personal head canon is that it kind of operates on Helldivers logic; each time you die you're essentially just being replaced with another reject added to the meat grinder

[frank ocean]

That doesnt really work when you have a fully customized character and the cutscenes are clearly with the same person

[tall torrent]

It’s very easy to reach this conclusion after checking breakpoints for every weapon in damnation and see how close everything is in regards to meeting breakpoints & what specific perks/blessings u need

[frank ocean]

Like death/game overs in levels cant be canon

[tall torrent]

Also, Boltgun is not horrible for regular damnation

[frank ocean]

Deaths you can kind of headcanon as Payday logic where you're captured and not really dead

[open totem]

Which then comes back to your point about it being a video game. That line of logic works both ways

[tall torrent]

Boltgun is usable and actually meets better breakpoints than plasma in some situations

[frank basin]

nobody talk about shredder pistol anymore, they officially left to dust

[open totem]

Fair, but beyond that, like auric, it feels real hard to justify taking over most any other gun

[tall torrent]

The issue with Boltgun is that it’s by far the most point expensive gun to run for veteran and does not provide nearly enough power for how much investment it takes

[hearty panther]

why do i gotta justify taking anything lul

[open totem]

You don't have to justify anything. I'm talking about my personal thought process when comparing the viability of the guns at higher difficulties

Well, both viability and fun factor. And the fun factor of the bolter lasts for all of 5 minutes until I almost run out of ammo trying to take down that mob of 6 crushers

I'm exaggerating, obviously, but that's the feel

[tall torrent]

Boltgun is not rly a crusher killing tool

Boltgun meets gunner & flamer breakpoints, and has crit 1 bodyshot BP against them as well

Boltgun can even meet rager 1HS breakpoints

[hearty panther]

sidetalk but that vid up on reddit on this subject was hysterical to me

[tall torrent]

Reddit, hysterical, yea

[open totem]

assuming you're not getting flinched into oblivion from said gunners, sure. But I don't like feeling like I have to take the suppression talent just to make the bolter work. Again, this is just the feel of it for me

[open totem]

got a link? I could use a good laugh

[tall torrent]

That’s the problem with Boltgun, it costs immensely on talent tree to run

You need so many talents to make it work well enough

Breakpoint-wise it’s not horrible whatsoever

Talent point economy wise it’s the worst by far

[open totem]

And that's kind of part of what I'm getting at; breakpoints aren't the only factor in making the weapons feel good to use. And by far bolters feel like the worst offender to me

[tall torrent]

They need to address the point economy problem for it imo

[hearty panther]

my phone is too slow to link successfully

but its probs still one of the top posts

[tall torrent]

Because Boltgun usually needs u to run smth like this

Having to spec 2 points into reload speed feels bad

Having to spec into suppression immunity feels bad (veteran should just have suppression immunity baked in as baseline)

[frank ocean]

Vet has a lot of stuff I feel like should be baked into/rolled into other skills

[open totem]

Or at the very least vastly reduced suppression compared to the other classes

[tall torrent]

This is true

[open totem]

True, but then the problem (for me) is feeling like I'm made of paper mache without the shout

[tall torrent]

Should just be flat out suppression immunity, because if it’s minimal on every gun (like how Laspistol is rn), you wouldn’t have a reason to take suppression immunity ever

Then it results in a dead talent

[open totem]

which means that talent could be replaced by something else that's more fun to take

theoretically

[tall torrent]

Nah, just reduce bloat on veteran tree

[open totem]

Either way would be fine by me

[frank ocean]

That too

[patent birch]

is bolt pistol dogshit or like do i just have a bad roll

[open totem]

depends on how you're using it and your roll. I've personally been running it on zealot and it feels alright against blobs of gunners or to oneshot trappers/snipers/bombers

[tall torrent]

Rework Killzone & opening salvo pls fatshark

[hearty panther]

the only downside of determined is its right beside precision strikes lul

[open totem]

Case in point: the extra ammo talent. That should've been baseline out the gate

[tall torrent]

Not necessarily, some builds don’t need it

[hearty panther]

also that the travel node above xstance is fukken +5% reload speed is such a farce

[umbral scaffold]

All of em lol

[tall torrent]

Plasma/agripinaa shotgun
Rest not rly, it’s more QoL

[tall torrent]

Nah

Most of the time u take it is because u want superiority complex

[hearty panther]

i only grab extra ammo because its in the way of superiority yea

[open totem]

I'm talking more in class variation than weapon builds. Veteran, comparitively, is far more ranged-weapon-focused. And having the extra ammo baseline would go a long way towards that

[hearty panther]

otherwise i would never

[tall torrent]

Plus a very easy to reach stam regen boost

[white minnow]

the monkey's paw for someone like you who wants more speed

[hearty panther]

reload speed aint speed tho

also reload tech exists and is generally always a bad node even when it isnt as lame as 5%

[tall torrent]

They should change it to -5% recoil or smth

If it’s not to become a dmg node

[hearty panther]

just 5% ranged damage, seriously. Why not.

5% reload speed is like. Maybe 5-10 seconds saved over an entire match

[last parcel]

-5 fov when aiming down sights

[open totem]

do this, redistribute the reload speed to the other existing talents for it. ez

[tall torrent]

I think the bigger problem is that Killzone/opening salvo are bad

We should buff opening salvo to like

[last parcel]

that’s why i take both of them

[tall torrent]

+20%? Even +30%

Or just delete it

And move suppression immunity to its spot

Or smth else

[open totem]

considering the current survivalist state, that could go a long way towards making lasguns more fun to use with the crit talent for them

[tall torrent]

Survivalist is still the best aura in the game, it’s just that not all guns need it

[open totem]

I'm well aware

my point was more on the lasguns than on Survivalist

[tall torrent]

I’m still in favour of deleting survivalist altogether, making the ammo regen function a veteran baseline that only benefits veteran, and replacing it with a different aura

Lasguns don’t need survivalist rn, most of them have pretty good ammo economy

[open totem]

They may not need it, but it does happen to be fairly point-efficient considering how many good talents for lasguns are on the left tree

[tall torrent]

On bottom, yes

On the top half? Not rly

Only one I think is sometimes useful is catch a breath

[open totem]

True, and it makes me wish that its sister talent (I think it's Get Stuck In or something to that effect?) was better

[tall torrent]

Get back in the fight

[open totem]

that's the one

Sounded great to me at first. After understanding a bit better and putting it in practice? Just feels bad.

[hearty panther]

the thing is we keep asking for adjustments to make other options more appealing but until you kick the VoC crutch out from people's feet by force they aren't gonna give a shit

[tall torrent]

It’s a bunch of things

[umbral parrot]

Need help guys! I've not yet used the Bolt Pistol, and suddenly, i got a decent looking one. How do i build off of this!?

Keep in mind, i'm going weapon specialist!

[tall torrent]

Grenade regen’s placement + gold toughness + tac awareness

[tall torrent]

Prob both perks?

Maniac + elite/unarmored

[hearty panther]

its both really, tac awareness is strong but nobody is impressed by xstance or stealth going off three times a minute, vs. what VoC engages for an entire team

[tall torrent]

Depending on if u take superior complex

[umbral parrot]

Of course i do! What vet does not?

[tall torrent]

And grenade regen’s placement

[tall torrent]

Then maniac + elite

For dreg Gunner 1hs

[umbral parrot]

Weakspot looks pretty nice. You sure Weakspot damage and Elite would not be better?

[tall torrent]

U might (?) need longshot? Since u don’t take FT + redirect fire

[umbral parrot]

I'm kinda low on resources grinding for a good pick axe so.... lol.

[tall torrent]

No, because it’s around 200 dmg off from flamer 1HS and u need maniac for it

Depends on build

[umbral parrot]

Alright, going with just that.

Weapon specialist by the way, keep that in mind! So....

Oh gosh please be good. I'm hearing lots of negative things about the Bolt Pistol.

[tall torrent]

It’s very unique

[hearty panther]

It's good.

[tall torrent]

It has faster firerate in ADS than hipfire

[umbral parrot]

I've yet to try it. Been doing pickaxe a lot.

[tall torrent]

the data card says 2.5 rps firerate, that’s false

[last parcel]

that threw me for a loop when i first noticed

[tall torrent]

Hipfire is ~96rpm (1.6), ADS is ~128rpm (2.13)

[hearty panther]

realistically tho it bounces way too fkn much for it to matter lul

[tall torrent]

First 3 shots in ADS are decently accurate in terms of recoil

I don’t like its sway

[hearty panther]

you can also ADS - fire - unADS - fire in very quick succession

which is just ... a thing

[tall torrent]

Also I’m plasma/laspistol player so having this really awkward hipfire is really not my thing

[umbral parrot]

Plasma is awesome~ ❤️

And hurts your finger~

[tall torrent]

u can run it with just precision strikes

it just gets a lot better with more investment

[zenith sandal]

Best perks/blessings for the bolt pistol? Using it mostly as a secondary to shoot stuff I can’t reach with a melee

[umbral parrot]

^

That's pretty much me lol.

Melee as a vet is too fun.

[quick burrow]

I really wish crouch and slide were different buttons

I want crouch on ctl but slide on my mouse side button, the ruff life

[opal wadi]

first time crafting the bolt pistol good roll?

[hearty panther]

ye you can work off that ez

[frank ocean]

For me I wish that you could do more to customize buttons on Console. You only get presets, and all the ones that make dodge a different button than jump, or Slide different from Crouch put Tag on the D-Pad which is a terrible spot for it

As long as I make sure every button is assigned there should be a custom option in the control settings for Console

[quiet parrot]

I know. But its the only representation of bolt pistol in multiplayer 1st person game we have

Sad that freaking bolt cant do same things as a regular revolver

[frank basin]

😔

[marble mantle]

What do y’all think is the best personality for vet?

Lookin for strong voice lines

[frank basin]

cadian

scream so hard

[marble mantle]

Cutthroat?

[frank basin]

loose cannon? sarcastically

[marble mantle]

Ahhh okay bet

[frank basin]

professional still professional

fit for my mercenary character

[wild vortex]

any suggestions on how to improve this? or good as is?

[weak token]

skullcrusher to lvl 4 or switch out overwhelming force

[wild vortex]

Overwhelming Force for what?

[weak token]

if u're willing to practice and learn, use entropic

[marble mantle]

I’m coming from zealot to vet, how do yall feel about chords

[weak token]

if u want some extra single target damage, use thrust

since this weapon has chained heavy strikedowns

if u want more all around consistent value, get hammerblow

but entropic probably has the most to offer, because it provides u a way to stun enemies and also boost your damage

[wild vortex]

Okie dokie

Thabks

Will farm up the blessing

[weak token]

as long as u're willing to practice and time your blocks

[wild vortex]

I bought this almost as is from Melk

[weak token]

pretty decent

it serves as a good beginner's shock maul

good luck

[tall torrent]

It’s a weapon that’s almost entirely carried by FotF

[languid dune]

What perks you after on Mk 3 Maul?

[tall torrent]

It’s called lightning reflexes now but ye

[languid dune]

Got one with Hammerblow and Opportunist

Alright for the moment until I get something else

[tall torrent]

Neither is very good

[languid dune]

I figured

[tall torrent]

Ideally u want lightning reflexes / high voltage / skullcrusher

[languid dune]

The perks were both weakpoint though so I'm just gonna play around with it for the moment