veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

so if you gotta double fold or fold + more atks for mk7 cause you went 0 melee talent

i dont see why you wouldn't jsut take chs

[wanton dawn]

Ps6 is the safest weapon against dreg rager

[flat pebble]

also it’s funny

[thick kestrel]

because "bong" :>

[bitter turtle]

i know it has good dodges but idk if that is worth killing hordes 2x as slow

and yes its that much of a gap vs chs

[flat pebble]

you guys ever heard of ”comparison is the thief of joy”

i really feel like people in this discord need to consider you don’t always have to think “why use this weapon and not this weapon”

[bitter turtle]

well

in a discussion like this

[thick kestrel]

and lets be fair, the other special attack for a no melee investment Veteran with a Shovel is Dropping a Frag at your feet ^^

[flat pebble]

if it’s fun to use and fits a build live and let live

[bitter turtle]

i feel like u have to think of it that way

the things i say dont directly reflect my weapon choices

i play a lot of weapon just for fun and most of the "meta" weapon i dont use

[flat pebble]

tbf you’re consistently the one steering the conversation toward “this is better than this”

[wanton dawn]

Cuz then ppl bring lawbringer in maelstrom and wonder why they do poorly

[flat pebble]

you’re directly influencing this discussion

[bitter turtle]

the context of what i was saying was noting that Chs4 is a weapon that does not lose much from not taking a single melee talent, it still performs very close to optimally

i was saying mk7 shovel is unfortunately not like that

[wanton dawn]

Personally, i dont care. As long as we are not bringing "best" and "recon" in a tier discussion

[bitter turtle]

bc taking no melee talents means u lose out on a niche of it (fold attack killing every single elite/special in 1 hit)

chs loses no niche by taking nothing

[wanton dawn]

Play what you want

[bitter turtle]

it just does the exact same thing with or without melee talent tree

just slightly slower ig because less aspd but its minor

[wanton dawn]

Hell, i still try bayonet in maelstrom

[bitter turtle]

recon is the best at shooting a lot of lasers

[wanton dawn]

Well, it is not as good now

[bitter turtle]

honestly i think mk7 recon is actually a decent gun now but idk

lmao

not like notably special but its good enough

[flat pebble]

you did the same thing in the bolter discussion when we were talking about the changes over time the bolter experienced and you interjected the vraks 7 was better

[wanton dawn]

I am the worst at grabbing mat

[bitter turtle]

bc you guys were talking about bolter being bad or good, and I was noting that I think its ok in a vacuum but struggles to carve a niche out in comparison to a similar gun

[flat pebble]

see that’s what I’m literally saying though lol

[bitter turtle]

ok next time ill just say "i think its ok" and leave it at that if that makes you happier

lol

i just was explaining my opinion

its ok as in "its not terrible" but its also not amazing bc its outclassed

[wanton dawn]

How to actually win an internet argument

[bitter turtle]

i was looking at the mk7 recon dps btw

it actually can hit 3k maniac dps

thats like

not terrible(?)

without a meme build like sneaky's stuff too

just an actual genuine normal build

5 redirect 2 focus only too

[wanton dawn]

It is irrelevant cuz its suppression is crap

[hollow ibex]

incredibly rude 😠

[bitter turtle]

im all for them ahving fun

im just clarifying that im not going "let me get 15 MF stacks with 20% rending"

lmao

[flat pebble]

idrc what you respond with my point is not everyone needs to be reminded their choices might be theoretically suboptimal when that’s not what people were talking about

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

you are the one who made a good/bad judgment in the first place

i was just chiming in with my own opinion

im not trying to attack you here

genuinely

[flat pebble]

I’m not trying to specifically call you out or anything and it’s not the end of the world but it happens in this discord all the time

[bitter turtle]

i just dont see what is wrong with what im saying lmao

[flat pebble]

yeah I get that I don’t feel attacked

[bitter turtle]

if you really

are bothered by me feelling like im trying to dictate your choices

[flat pebble]

I’m just airing grievances ig

[bitter turtle]

its fine to just not engage my statement

idrc if im ignored lol

i just am sharing my thoughts

[flat pebble]

good talk

[bitter turtle]

i dont think i ever tell anyone "u have to use this" anyway

[junior needle]

When you dodge a crusher overhead and it visibly misses but it still hits you

Thank you fatshark

[bitter turtle]

its the shockwave

it got you

[wanton dawn]

Eh, tbf that is a "it is not me, it is you" energy

[bitter turtle]

like tree sentinel shield slam in elden ring

[lunar sedge]

Hey there vet bros, does anyone already find out good blessings for bolt pistol? And how does bolt pistol feels like overall?

[bitter turtle]

well im not denying that part

lol

since my point was that i was not the first one to make a value judgment on the gun

[wanton dawn]

He just said it is great

Like sneaky with recon

[untold mulch]

Man, I found the most braindead Vet I've seen yet, with columnus and firing until 0% then either died or vacuumed all ammo

[untold mulch]

.....I run recon with infiltrate

[bitter turtle]

yea, and he said that's controversial (bc people say its shit half the time) and i was chiming in saying its ok/decent and why i think so

[untold mulch]

7a feels kinda neat?=

[atomic zephyr]

surgical is basically required

[wanton dawn]

Tbf i dont care i just play

[bitter turtle]

you know what feels bad

[atomic zephyr]

and then either puncture or deadly accurate

[untold mulch]

rn my enjoyment is 7a>II>VId

[bitter turtle]

i feel like infiltrate is pretty meh on t he new map except the last event

if it spawns the "pull all circuit breakers" objective

[atomic zephyr]

its really just...meh? its fun, but the recoil makes it tough to use

[bitter turtle]

everything is so fucking narrow there's barely any room to flank around half the time

[untold mulch]

I then use the infiltrate as panic button or revive button

when no flank is available

[atomic zephyr]

the new map, despite there being a shitload of cover, doesnt have enough cover

at least thats how i feel

[untold mulch]

I just feel like spawns are borked and we are getting backspawns constantly

I literally can't ADS anymore

[wanton dawn]

If you REALLY want to know if your weapon is "good", az will be happy to test your claim IG

[bitter turtle]

i think its scripted for certain sections

[untold mulch]

I just hipfire like is quake era

[bitter turtle]

like

on that big drop down area

[untold mulch]

when game allows me to shoot

[bitter turtle]

after the train ride

[untold mulch]

perhaps

[bitter turtle]

there is a LOT of backspawns that happen there

like abnormally so

[untold mulch]

but is certainly a bitch and a half

[hearty panther]

azrael is a robot

[bitter turtle]

and mobs that dont usually spawn like that

like crushers

after you open teh door

[feral lake]

I have now leaned one of the mauls is a taser

[radiant chasm]

On the new map half the spawns are backspawns cause there is only infront and behind

[bitter turtle]

i feel like its scripted idk

[untold mulch]

I got jumpscared by a crusher rn

stuff doesn't change

[junior needle]

Dodge a trapper net

[untold mulch]

hear barely a noise

[wanton dawn]

He is hard to keep up with ey ?

[radiant chasm]

Other maps usually had a wider range of spawns

[junior needle]

It still hits me

[untold mulch]

turn around

crusher midswing

oh kark dodge

[junior needle]

Immediately get crusher overheaded

[hearty panther]

i havent actually played with him tbh but i have a pretty good idea of the level he's at lol

[wanton dawn]

I only play with him atm

[untold mulch]

I almost got a no hit run today but a sniper twisted the space-time continuum to hit me

[hearty panther]

that must be boring

[wanton dawn]

Otherwise i would not play atm

[hearty panther]

i hate having good players

[bitter turtle]

same tbh

[untold mulch]

I hate good players with meta build

[bitter turtle]

i need my all orange scoreboard to massage my fragile ego

[untold mulch]

because it means no shooty will be done for me

[bitter turtle]

jk

its just kinda boring tbh

when everything go right

lmao

[wanton dawn]

We tried ws bolter duo histg yesterday

Did not work out

[untold mulch]

also man

I miss old scavenger, my brain is getting anxiety when I reach 50% ammo, even if I know with a small box I am very much good to go

weird thing

[wanton dawn]

The game isnt about being the best anyway.

[hearty panther]

thats what a loser would say

[midnight totem]

So the enemies have been buffed

[untold mulch]

The spawns are crazy rn ngl

[wanton dawn]

Wanna test it ?

[hearty panther]

work 😦

[midnight totem]

I know the ragers have been swinging really fast

[untold mulch]

they are easier to dodge now, imo

[midnight totem]

Didn't realise regular shooters were buffed too

[untold mulch]

like before if you got hit, you had to obligatory start blocking

but now I can dodge them?

I remember on January a Rager melting me constantly, and rn I am dancing between them

[midnight totem]

Yeah but now they swing so fast you barely have any time to strike them back unless you have a knife or stagger

[wanton dawn]

Rager got tracking nerfed

[untold mulch]

thank fucking emperor

[bitter turtle]

that was last patch

as in the one before this one

iirc

[wanton dawn]

They no longer hit on side dodge

But dreg got buffed rn

[untold mulch]

now if onyl I had hellgun

[wanton dawn]

Hit faster

[bitter turtle]

dreg always been th estronger one anyway

being naked makes u stronger ig

[untold mulch]

somehow

[wanton dawn]

Eh, not if you use ps

[bitter turtle]

well

yeah i just mean with most weapons

at least the ones i use

i feel like flak usually has better ADM values than maniac

i guess i would prob feel the opposite if i was an ilas main though

[wanton dawn]

Flak rager have more hitmass

[bitter turtle]

o

didnt realize there wa sa difference there for them

[wanton dawn]

Kinda matter for ps

[bitter turtle]

yeah i can imagine

[wanton dawn]

Without cleave increase you can only hit 2

[bitter turtle]

not that i use ps either anymore

[wanton dawn]

And thats how i started to use sunder

[bitter turtle]

i want to make a mk3 sunder one though

esp with that sunder buff

for meme

[wanton dawn]

I was trying to check if rampage was worth on ps

Back when it was bugged

Well, it wasnt

[bitter turtle]

rip

[wanton dawn]

But i found sunder instead and now i am a happy boy

[cerulean ridge]

i just rolled this up for lolz to build up my blessings.
might actually give this one a try, who needs mobility anyway eh?

[wanton dawn]

Well, worth a try

[bitter turtle]

what are people running on that one anyway

both barrel/scattershot?

i saw some ppl saying manstopper but idk

[midnight totem]

I haven't rolled manstopper yet

But I'm seriously considering it, and run and gun or scattershot

Because of rager hordes

[somber axle]

I love it personally and it feels really strong to me

It feels like a test of how well you aim and if you can consistently hit heads with the Boltpistol it shines very well and can hit breakpoints the normal Boltgun can't hit

If you bodyshot a lot or can't adjust to the wonky sights it feels very weak

[bitter turtle]

bleedpistol for bodyshotters

well you still gotta headshot flamer/gunners but

[somber axle]

I still can't believe Marksman's Focus and RENDING is what pushes the Boltpistol into funny breakpoints

Not Focus Target, not 8 stack either

But Boltpistol's new skin is pay to lose LMFAO

[bitter turtle]

well

on a super high finesse weapon

[bitter turtle]

MF is always gonna be better

[somber axle]

The fucking CANDLE FLAME

[bitter turtle]

assuming you can keep it stacked at least

[tame lodge]

Yo, suppression actually useful rn?

[hollow warren]

speaking of bolt pistols, what's considered the dump stat on it?

[junior needle]

This is your karmic justice for buying slop

[somber axle]

Funny enough the lack of Deadly Accurate on Boltgun means Marksman's Focus + Rending doesn't push the Boltgun into 1HKO Crusher range and it needs more investment to reach 1HKO than Boltpistol (but the Boltgun bodyshots better because of Pinning Fire)

[bitter turtle]

yeah that makes sense

[junior needle]

Kind of? It's nice to have but you shouldn't build for it

[somber axle]

Oh no you misundertand me. I love it. It's really dumb and the candle flame gets in the way and I run it exclusively with the skin now because it is so goofy

Pay to lose is my preferred style of play

[bitter turtle]

those are some big ears

[somber axle]

I wish to suffer

[junior needle]

It's all the warp dust

[pseudo fiber]

mobility probably

[somber axle]

It's the new tactical ball gag

[tame lodge]

I mean, I'm not building towards it, it's just the nature of my weapons

[bitter turtle]

oml i actually thought it was a ball gag from the thumbnail

[somber axle]

THE TEETH MOVE

[hollow warren]

jesus

[bitter turtle]

im surprised you're playing DT rn

didnt DT (as in dawntrail) come out?

[somber axle]

people are making actual frankensteins right now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650153785393414144/1256206658066186322/image.png?ex=667fed1e&is=667e9b9e&hm=557be1c42128079547e501f18bf10bdaf0802b1be762bca19f17360366520f9a&

[bitter turtle]

that looks like some chaos corrupted shit

[somber axle]

I'm not playing Darktide right now tbh

[slow spade]

Servitor looking ass

[sleek garden]

I thought I was insane

[somber axle]

I'm all in on Dawntrail

Early access began hours ago but I got off work midnight, a few hours before early access launched, so I needed time to sleep

[bitter turtle]

good luck with queues

[last parcel]

imagine sleeping lmao

[somber axle]

last night was bizarre because friends told me that queues were 1000+ and then suddenly it was only like 21 people in queue ahead to get in

no idea how it is now during day time

[sinful jacinth]

One step closer to a servitor.

[bitter turtle]

my friend was queueing but i twas only like 30 at the time

a few hours ago

[somber axle]

the server upgrades must have been fantastic

[sleek garden]

I just thought it was because the new map had no cover but it turns out it is because there is no cover and they boosted shooters

[bitter turtle]

its prob never gonna be as bad as endwalker queues asgain

[somber axle]

Yoshi P did mention they invested heavily in upgrading the server infrastructure

they were definitely more prepared for Dawntrail launch

[bitter turtle]

well, that and EW was just a perfect storm of an insane influx of ppl

covid + wow players malding + big hype for end of 10 year story arc

[somber axle]

No one could have predicted WoW would shit itself so violently during Shadowlands that it would hemorrhage such a big slice of the MMORPG pie off into FF14 like it did but spiteful WoW players searching for the next WoW found a game to stick to (me included LOL)

Shadowbringers was the big explosion but it happened mid-Shadowbringers

so Shadowbringers launch wasn't nearly as tricky as Endwalker

[bitter turtle]

yea it was during ShB dead period

well, dead as in after the x.5 and while ppl are waiting for next expac

which prob only built hype even more for the next content drop (which would be the expac launch)

[somber axle]

can you imagine the sheer amounts of money Yoshi P is raking in for Square Enix now that FF14 is as big as it is??

[midnight totem]

All WoW players will know the glory of catgirls and bungirls

[somber axle]

they released the $155 collector box which doesn't even include the expansion and then a separate collector's edition for $60 for some digital items

and I know people who bought both LMFAO

[midnight totem]

And I suppose giraffes too

[bitter turtle]

ignoring the dragon girls >:(

[somber axle]

my friend into Warhammer Tabletop went all in on FF14 merch

[midnight totem]

Another whale secured

[somber axle]

but like I have no idea how he affords his hobbies

[midnight totem]

Drugs

Or he's IT

[somber axle]

he must make better money than it seems to fund Tabletop fun and buy all the silly merch

[midnight totem]

Or both!

[somber axle]

He played a Worgen in WoW so I called him a suspiciously wealthy furry and he hated it

[midnight totem]

Because it's true

[somber axle]

I mained Night Elf from BC to Legion but when Void Elves released I made the switch to that race instead

Elf for life

I would be an Eldar in a clown costume here if it were at all possible

ok not really Elf for life, I became a cat for FF14

[bitter turtle]

well

im ngl

if anyone got done dirty

from concept art vs ingame model

its the elezen

so i dont blame you

lmao

[somber axle]

Dragoons from the Heavensward trailer are some of the sexiest looking knights of any game I've ever played

but then my standards on sexy armour were low after playing WoW for so long and enjoying silly giant shoulderpads

cinematics vs in-game for WoW

still can't believe I ever thought the dumb football shoulderpads on every armour set was a good look

I'd love Drachen Mail in FF14 more if they didn't give the version for women a strange hole to show off your midriff

angry

one of my friends mains Dragoon and she made her character a man just to avoid this

[junior needle]

Spongebob_licking_abs.gif

[somber axle]

I love abs but not on heavy armour

[midnight totem]

Ah. The stabbing hole

[junior needle]

The less armor you wear, the more protected you are

[midnight totem]

Thankfully most later armor averts this

[bitter turtle]

tbf

[junior needle]

This is why the buttfloss of destiny is the most powerful armor

[bitter turtle]

at least it somewhat kinda makes sense for dragoons

they have to jump a lot and do acrobatic shit

some extra flexibility to bend over might help that

when you're vaulting onto dragons and shit

which is what they were doing in ishgardland

[somber axle]

I just play WHM and I'm eating good because now I can LEAP

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825191053513981974/1256148936851329086/75db9b094ae3b0146020630067d216da.png?ex=667fb75c&is=667e65dc&hm=c045e957ca153f770fc3e12ebc1556d74b9fbadb5699efc0a53e246bf24b25f5&

[midnight totem]

https://tenor.com/view/samurai-jack-aku-portal-gif-8745648

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-leap-attack-dog-foxmel-gif-26175836

[somber axle]

my friend and I have made a pact: we will both backflip emote in front of a random tank in roulettes then she will dragoon backflip off the platform and I'll white mage launch off the edge with her

but we're not monsters so we're waiting to 2% boss HP before killing ourselves

[last parcel]

200% take it or leave it

[midnight totem]

I hit superbolide if I think my healers are getting lazy

[bitter turtle]

i have a macro for garlean superbolide

[midnight totem]

If I was in a party with you, you guys would jump off

I'd hit superbolide

[bitter turtle]

/ac superbolide
"Twas a grand glorious dream we had."
/statusoff superbolide

[midnight totem]

Our 2nd healer would have a heart attack, and then we'd wipe right there

Glorious

[somber axle]

me the second your back is turned

[midnight totem]

Anyway

This is now ffxiv chat

Vets of ffxiv

[untold mulch]

I love how impulsively the instant one can move

everyone rolls to the tables to break them

[clear lantern]

I do the same in the hab levels for no reason. Just break those wooden tables and chairs

[pearl granite]

what would be best perk and blessing for the new hacker shotgun?

[midnight totem]

sweet

Found Manstopper on the new shotgun from Brunt

[midnight totem]

Most of the perks are pretty decent, tbh

I heard run and gun is good because it also somehow tightens the choke

for longer range

[tame lodge]

Yeah Brunt still giving godrolls with T2 blessings lmao

[midnight totem]

I'm leaning towards manstopper because of crit

and cleave

[somber axle]

Azrael said Manstopper + Scattershot with Infested for wiping hordes

I think Numbers Cat was running Both Barrels and something else though

[midnight totem]

does deadshot work with the braced for the new shotty?

I figure scattershot isn't needed unless you -really- want to guarantee crit hits

since weapon specialist and/or deadshot vetst have other ways of ensuring crit hits

both barrels or another reload perk can be useful since the reload, while quick, can be longer then one expects

[faint beacon]

Path was running Both Barrels with Honestly I don't know what his other was but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Damage related

seeing you really dont need Scatter if you're running WS

Fullbore if you're planning to barrel stuff specials

[atomic zephyr]

damn the new map is so good when your teammates havent been lobotimized

[somber axle]

Both Barrels and Terrifying Barrage

I'm kidding LOL

Probably Both Barrels + Hit n Run if I had to guess

[junior needle]

Yes, according to showcritchance in the psyk

[fierce steeple]

whats the best recon las these days, I wanna build one to try out these new buffs

[junior needle]

7a

They all have about the same dps and adm's now

7a and 2 are nearly tied for best ammo efficiency but 7a has cleave

6d has the worst by a noticeable amount

[faint beacon]

I really hate saying it but thats a good 65% of the players on it

[mental cloud]

Was about to say, I tested it yesterday day and the only difference is vld has a slightly faster ttk

[junior needle]

Only thing 6d excels at is crusher killing speed in extremely juiced setups due to onslaught stack speed

[fierce steeple]

bet i have a 380 gray ive had in my inventory for ages. time to get it up

[junior needle]

But the 6d also received reload speed and handling nerfs

For actually no reason at all

Baffling change

[mental cloud]

7a for ammo economy I would say?

[junior needle]

Here's the numbers

7a is only slightly behind the 2 for ammo efficiency but has cleave which means you're hitting more chaffe targets when you have to shoot through them or at them

and select flimsy specials

[atomic zephyr]

speaking of which, i just watched some absolute fucking gigabrain dump his recon lasgun right above a daemonhost's head twice

[mental cloud]

Emperor bless ya sah

[atomic zephyr]

he shot the daemonhost, BoN spawned, we killed the BoN, and then he shot the host AGAIN

like wtf????

[junior needle]

7a wants hh/dumdum and some combination of flak/maniac/crit chance, same as 2.

On 6d you can substitute dumdum for infernus if you prefer

[faint beacon]

I keep getting it with teammates who keep dying

[mental cloud]

Ight noted.

[faint beacon]

I might honestly just avoid Gloriana for a few days

[fierce steeple]

hh +5% crit from perk and talent tree + infernus for flamey shenanigans

crit stack like crazy and use shock troop

[junior needle]

I wouldn't recommend infernus on the slower firing models

But I think the 5% crit talent from the tree is convenient value if you're going voc.

[atomic zephyr]

putting together a build for my recon lasgun (6d)
what keystone should i go for?

can reasonably reach both marksmans and focus, though focus has less tax

[junior needle]

5 stack ping and 10 stack mf are about the same damage, but redirect fire may break the tie

[somber axle]

Cat in a Hat

[midnight totem]

This isn't you. Where's the clown nose?

[somber axle]

Incorrect

VIIa has the best DPS only by a slim margin if you ignore Onslaught for the VId

[junior needle]

#veteran-class message

[somber axle]

VId has the best DPS if you use Onslaught

[junior needle]

Read

[somber axle]

I've toyed with all three in the Psykanium

I have played

I have felt

The numbers do not let VIIa come close to the VId

Onslaught just pushes it way further beyond

[junior needle]

They do, outside of gigajuice setups

[somber axle]

It helps that Infernus is significantly better for the VId too

[junior needle]

As I said

[somber axle]

Infernus isn't nearly as much value on the VIIa because of the slower fire rate

[faint beacon]

They changed Shocking Expression to Overwhelming Force....

Fat Shark you cant hide this change from me

[junior needle]

That's why you take dumdum instead...

[somber axle]

Even if you play with a funny 10 stack Marksman's Focus 10% rending + 10% rending from Rending Strikes build

you still do less DPS vs Crushers than a VId even on your best crit string compared to the worst VId crit string

it's not a contest

[junior needle]

VS crushers

[junior needle]

I mentioned this

I literally said this

[somber axle]

Take Dum Dum and still do less DPS

[wanton dawn]

Imagine arguing over which recon setup is the best

[last parcel]

oh is it that time of day again

[somber axle]

They're all fine now

[balmy flume]

So, any tips on the new mission?
And are new weapons actually good?

[somber axle]

VId is the only one that can reasonably be Crusher juiced

VId has the best DPS for funny set ups

[junior needle]

Untrue, the others can get fine crusher dps

[somber axle]

VIIa is the best DPS if you ignore using the full talent tree

[somber axle]

If you are always at 10 stack MF whenever a Crusher appears sure

[wanton dawn]

boltpistol underwhelming, shotgun usable, pickake apparently usable, tazer good but boss damage is terrible

[somber axle]

Otherwise the damage is much, much lower

[junior needle]

Just take onslaught 5head

[somber axle]

On a VIIa? LOL no

good luck getting significant stacks in any reasonable amount of time with that low fire rate

[balmy flume]

Ok so gear wise looks like my Laspistol is still a go to. Alongside the P Sword.

[somber axle]

the VIIa has a funny use case of spreading Infernus through crowds more because of the cleave though

[wanton dawn]

Meta is still the same

[junior needle]

It's fine if you must absolutely shoot crushers

[wanton dawn]

Except maybe zealot since fotf got shafted

[hearty panther]

yea just new toys no huge shakeup

[junior needle]

If you don't want to shoot crushers they make melee weapons for that

[somber axle]

I'd rank it like this after toying with the numbers

DPS/TTK (On more than just Crushers)
VId > VIIa > II

Ammo Efficiency
II > VIIa > VId

[hearty panther]

i still rate boltp highly tho tbh

[somber axle]

which feels really good tbh

[junior needle]

There's barely a dps difference on anything but crushers

[wanton dawn]

I try boltpistol but... it is neither as good as revolver nor bolter

it feels good to use though

[hearty panther]

i refuse to make comparisons to the revolver, that thing is dumb

also the candle on the boltp skin blocking the sight?

fucking love it

unironically i do

[somber axle]

Factually incorrect. VIIa and II both have reduced ADM vs Flak and Unyielding at near range where you're most likely to fight both. Flak Ragers tend to be in your face. Same with Bulwarks running shield raised. They're going to get close more often than not. Testing their DPS/TTK at range is showing optimal DPS/TTK, but not realistic DPS/TTK

[wanton dawn]

That's a skin buyer problem

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId went untouched on ADM nerfs to Flak/Unyielding

[junior needle]

THEY HAVE THE SAME ADM'S NOW

[wanton dawn]

OH MY GOD NOBODY CARE

[somber axle]

So it outpaces them

[hearty panther]

i am sick of this world, everyone betray me

[last parcel]

MOOOOOOOOM DAAAAAAAAD STOP FIGHTING

[junior needle]

How many times do I have to say it

[somber axle]

It hurts them much more because of their reduced effectiveness from Onslaught because of their slower fire rate and their increased reliance on damage per shot vs fire rate

If your answer to a threat at close range is swap melee you are being out DPSed by the VId

[junior needle]

Ammo goblin statement

[somber axle]

Ok I'll continue killing Flak Ragers, Maulers and Bulwarks for very little ammo consumed on Deadshot/Shock Trooper/Headhunter

But the 3-5 ammo I spend on a target is more ammo than you using Knife I guess

[junior needle]

If your answer is to take a 6d you are being outdps'd by a ciag and plasma

[somber axle]

CIAG/Plasma can't touch the ammo efficiency of lasguns 😌

Helbores literally go ammo positive, Recons can also go ammo positive on single targets too funny enough

A Crusher can go down in as little as 5 ammo spent and with only a 50% ammo stat restores 9 ammo back

[junior needle]

Suddenly ammo efficiency matters when choosing guns, but not when the 6d has worse ammo efficiency

[somber axle]

Even on your best day on a CIAG you will never go ammo positive killing a Crusher

[somber axle]

I already showed the other variants have better ammo efficiency so like

[junior needle]

On a gigajuice setup

[somber axle]

look again?

[junior needle]

You didn't show anything, I did the math a long time ago

#veteran-class message

[somber axle]

I play in the fast lane, if you play in the slow lane I'll see you at the finish line

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-captain-america-the-winter-soldier-steve-rogers-chris-evans-gif-15691099

[somber axle]

I literally did

I showed you Crusher DPS and you disappeared LOL

did you mentally block it out

[junior needle]

What?

I'm talking about ammo efficiency

You didn't show any math

[somber axle]

Mk VId is the only one that hits 3600 DPS, and even on less silly gigajuice and more realistic builds still outpaces the VIIa. VIIa in the BEST case scenario is hitting 3100-ish DPS with Rending Strikes/Marksman's Focus 10 stack rending

[junior needle]

I did it myself when the patch dropped

[somber axle]

I showed you recordings

If you want to take your VIIa into recordings and hit 3600 DPS show me

[junior needle]

Yes you did, I agreed with you that on the gigajuice setup the onslaught stack speed made the difference

[somber axle]

If you can't then the numbers aren't there no matter what you did on napkin math

Yes so VId does better DPS

[junior needle]

What are you talking abhout

[somber axle]

At the cost of worse ammo efficiency

That's a good way of balancing the variants tbh

[junior needle]

A bit better dps in particular circumstances

Which the vast majority of people won't use because it requires a gigajuice setup

[somber axle]

VIIa is like the middle child of damage vs ammo efficiency, Mk II has lowest DPS (not significant anymore) but best ammo efficiency, Mk VId has worst ammo efficiency but highest DPS/TTK

[junior needle]

On only 1 enemy

[flat crypt]

Wouldn't be surprised if in some point they introduced a little cooldown for the crit not consuming ammo 🤔 not that I hope for it, it's just a very powerful talent

[somber axle]

It has better DPS/TTK on other targets too

[junior needle]

By how much

[somber axle]

Onslaught helps it compensate better vs 10% MF rending

I can do recordings but I'm literally in FF14

[junior needle]

[somber axle]

are you going to make me swap into Darktide just to show you

you're going to make me swap

[junior needle]

I just asked you how much

But please, stop assuming that gigajuice setups are the norm

Or that the only metric people care for is crusher dps

[somber axle]

Yes and I can show you by how much by recording Recon Mk VIIa and Recon Mk II vs Flak Rager and Bulwark DPS vs Recon Mk VId Flak Rager and Bulwark DPS

I can also show Mauler too

but wow

that's a lot of time and effort when I just want to be a cat in a hat

[junior needle]

[somber axle]

if you want to move the goal posts that's ok but the clown shoes stay on

give me a few minutes I'm logging onto Darktide

but just for this series of recordings

I need to get into my vacation mood for Dawntrail

[junior needle]

It can get the highest dps, but the difference is superfluous for most setups and target

[somber axle]

It's ok I'm running into Darktide to record this

I can show you the numbers difference soon

[junior needle]

I will reiterate that the 7a is the best overall

Outside of very particular setups and target choices

And with the best combination of utility factors like cleave and ammo efficiency

[somber axle]

I'll even do 10 stack MF and use camo because players are probably not doing 10 stacks consistently on the VIIa on the move

[hearty panther]

I'm gonna be the money President!

[wise fossil]

Idk why people hyperfixate on crushers so much. Of the elite enemies, it's one of the less threatening. I've seen more runs wrecked by mass gunners/reapers or 6+ ragers than crusher gangs

[hearty panther]

soldier is special

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mad-meme-plague-he-poisoned-water-supply-burnt-our-crops-and-deliver-gif-10420279

[somber axle]

Because quickplay squads in Aurics and in standard Damnation fold the instant more than 2 Crushers are on the field

Especially now with returning players LOL

Literally had 3 dudes go down to a small pack of maulers and a standard horde of poxwalkers in the first 2 minutes of a HiSTG Auric

and had to play solo for a bit

it's a single player game if you're not ready to kill the Crusher crew before it wipes the quickplay randoms in your squad

the bright side is that they often ragequit and let other players drop in instead

[wise fossil]

This has pretty much never been my experience. Sure you might get one dude that goes down but the crusher gangs simply don't have the area denial or aggressiveness to down a whole team like bulwark + flamer or a dozen gunners

[somber axle]

Have you ever played at midnight to 3 am when the creatures are loose in queue? or played in quickplay after a major update? because it's really common in Auric quickplay to see people fall over when Crushers spawn

[wise fossil]

Having some anti armor is good, but focusing on that specific breakpoint is weird

[somber axle]

Knife is fantastic for the 2HKO-3HKO it can perform on Crushers and is a significant breakpoint to build for

Power Sword can charged push attack into 1-2 light swings per Crusher

Fold Shovel with Uncanny slaps them to death

Crushers are an important enemy to be ready for either on melee or ranged

[hearty panther]

i dont really do anything build wise under the guise of compensating for teammates

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver and Plasma can safely deal with them at range

It's just a natural thing to be ready to engage all enemy types

[junior needle]

Excuse me?

[hearty panther]

only my own output is controllable and matters

[somber axle]

If you can't effectively kill a Crusher on either your melee or ranged weapon you're basically begging someone else to kill Crushers for you

[fierce steeple]

after running a Mauric, the 7a with infernus and crit stacking was nuts. Melted just about everything, and that which it didnt, krak nades

[clear lantern]

Chain weapons still stun them too

[somber axle]

VIIa is good and the buffs have definitely made it much stronger

[junior needle]

Infernus is the less good blessing options on the 7a

[wise fossil]

The context of the previous conversation was building a gun that's not good at anti armor to fight the most armored enemy. Obviously a knife should be built for anti armor

[somber axle]

But I'm not saying it's a bad gun

I'm saying that the VId had better DPS/TTK across targets

and I am recording this now

give me time to record and compile clips

I have to record vs 3 targets: Flak Rager, Mauler and Bulwark
on three different guns

[junior needle]

Due to onslaught stacking fast on gigajuice setups where you try to kill the target as fast as the game allows, yes

Outside of that, it's a superfluous difference

[faint beacon]

Dude what is UP with today and nothing but people just getting destroyed on here

I think im on my 5th loss streak

[fierce steeple]

rusty players coming back due to patch prolly

[junior needle]

You don't have to, I just asked what the dps difference was on other targets

[tall torrent]

Lemme guess, on the new map?

[wise fossil]

I had the same experience. +200 or more players not knowing how to push bursters

[somber axle]

Yes and I plan to show it

[faint beacon]

Mainly new map, but I had it on some of the old maps as well

[somber axle]

Video evidence > text numbers imo

[junior needle]

I was going to take your word for it but if you insist

[somber axle]

My word is a clown's word and I recognize that I sound silly without showing my proof LOL

[junior needle]

It is your time

[dense light]

Is it just that I don’t have any clue what I’m doing, or is the bolt pistol sorta garbage? I can’t even two shot hounds lmao

[coral willow]

damn they buffed vet

again

[junior needle]

Enemies got buffed apparently

[coral willow]

everything is faster

and tougher

and hits harder

[junior needle]

I dunno about tougher, it didn't mention hp increases

[faint beacon]

I noticed the increase volleys

and Its been making me very....

testy

[somber axle]

Smoke grenades just got an indirect buff LOL

[faint beacon]

as hadron would say

[junior needle]

Single dreg shooters taking my entire toughness bar

[somber axle]

With the increased bullet count this also makes Psyker bullets surprisingly less effective because they'll pop sooner now under sustained volleys

[faint beacon]

But that also explains why I literally couldn't get breathing room using some of my melee weapons

[somber axle]

still good to use but Psyker bubble melts faster

[coral willow]

stagger resis for ragers got tougher

p sure

[faint beacon]

they just kept fucking Destroying my stamina and dodges

[midnight totem]

they already did

[junior needle]

Not quite, it was just not working with string crits for a long period due to a "bug"

[coral willow]

so why did they buff kraks?

[last parcel]

to oneshot bulwarks without needing a damage boost

[coral willow]

another w for the vet

[scarlet vessel]

yeah i felt like grunt gunners pelt toughness away way faster now, especially apparant as ogryn

[fierce steeple]

try the new shock maul, its got good CC capabilites. CS was still working great for me in auric maelstroms as well.

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[fierce steeple]

high voltage and skullcrusher is what I like best so far

[faint beacon]

Shockingly I was using it when this happened

basically I'd turn around to a horde and then another horde would come in from behind and surround me

god help you if this happens now

[pseudo fiber]

In those cases it's time to earn your pay

[fierce steeple]

Im a big fan of stealth vet, grab the 2 charges talent and its great for getting revives, displacing, and replenishing toughness the second it breaks. Helps create a few seconds of breathing room when youre getting overwhelemed

[frank basin]

Voc is helpless now

with room full of gunners and shooters

[faint beacon]

VOC is even stronger now tbh cause of it

[frank basin]

whoops, 20+ gunners in a room

[faint beacon]

I feel like they pushed using it more with all these changes

[frank basin]

exe stance did it die?

[faint beacon]

I feel like its good when your team covers you, cause I've had way to many moments im forced out of Exe and then I get butchered cause of ragers

[fierce steeple]

no i've been running a bunch of Maurics with a few different builds, mainly exe or stealth, voc doesnt preform as well as those 2 anymore for me tho.

[wanton dawn]

VoC is a strong as ever

[frank basin]

with most enemy buffed damage making game more difficult, i think this going be like destiny 2 when recent changing making you play below negative 5 gear score on casual activity game

[pseudo fiber]

They should let us switch to melee like the ogryn skill.

[wanton dawn]

Exe stance suffers from groaner and dreg rager buff

If you fear gunner, just go smoke

[frank basin]

groaner 20% faster going catch you up when you running away

yikes groaner now just more annoying

[wanton dawn]

That being said, open space with large gunner spawn area are deadly now

[frank basin]

when in new map there one area open wide no cover

and there bunch of dreg shooter and gunner

me and one of vet use smoke grenade gladly we alive

we busy killing chaff melee enemies when combine shooter is deadly

but smoke cover and saved our ass

[wise fossil]

Whoa, based

[frank basin]

you can't kill ranged and melee simultaneously same time

[woven oak]

https://old.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1do5k6k/secrets_of_the_machine_god_out_now_patch_notes/laon9wt/

"Additionally, Scab/Dreg shooters will now stay in cover longer (and remain exposed longer) with a reduced cooldown between sprays, making cover-taking enemies more of a threat but also enhancing the viability of player weapons that apply suppression."

[terse idol]

Zealot fury of the righteous nerfed due to crit

-6s off voc no problem

👌

[frank ocean]

also something I realized during the new mission, some of the Heretical Idols can spawn in ice that requires shooting/meleeing to break and hit them

[last parcel]

same with scriptures

[scarlet vessel]

so whats the best shockmaul, im feeling agni for more strikedowns

[faint beacon]

is that seriously all they did

[terse idol]

No

I mean

If you mean they nerfed infinite crit chain charge on zealot

Yeah

[frank ocean]

Iirc they made it so you don’t trigger it multiple times on one swing right?

[terse idol]

I didn't read it properly but something like that

[frank ocean]

Or like from Crits, you can only get one per swing

[wise fossil]

Oh, krak buff. Neat

[brave verge]

man, what is the point of the high stagger special on my axe if the dreg rager can just start attacking before I even finish half the animation? They pivot weirdly quick too, when you dodge

[woven oak]

Push-attack on Rashad should stagger them out of their attack

[junior needle]

Guess I'll just not play because I keep getting disconnected near the ends of missions with no error or message of any kind

[last parcel]

classic

[junior needle]

No option to rejoin

[toxic leaf]

hmm i dont really like the 7a recon, mostly because its damage perks are close range shit and im almost never procing that

i gotta think II or 6d with infernus crit shenanigans would be best

[junior needle]

All the recons have the same blessings

Also dumdum is effective up to 30m

[toxic leaf]

oh is it?

[junior needle]

Yes, it works like anoint in blood

[toxic leaf]

oic

[junior needle]

Full buff value up to 8m then tapers down to 30m

Very strong blessing

[toxic leaf]

well wait

[junior needle]

HH is also active at every distance

[toxic leaf]

ok but dumdum only procs at close range, the damage boost is effective as you say right?

[junior needle]

The buff activates at any range

[toxic leaf]

ok lemme see this in the arena

[junior needle]

But the effect of the damage boost depends on how far you are from your target

[toxic leaf]

hmm, it just felt really weak compared to the 6d i had vomiting burn stacks

[wild wasp]

Any recommended perks for shock maul please good people?

[junior needle]

Are you testing on crushers?

[toxic leaf]

i was jsut commenting on in-game experience with em

[junior needle]

6d does "feel" more effective due to the rof and laser vomit

But the dps on target is about the same until you get into gigajuice territory

[toxic leaf]

hmm

[tall torrent]

@faint beacon u wanna play

[toxic leaf]

i think its because my 7a has a shit second blessing

vs HH+infernus

deathspitter not too great

[junior needle]

Would not recommend infernus for the slower variants but you can take it if you want

And yeah deathspitter is definitely a subpar choice

[faint beacon]

Possibly here in a few, need to change a few things and im good

[toxic leaf]

oh i mean HH+infernus 6d

[junior needle]

Dumdum is a big damage boost

[toxic leaf]

not 7a

[faint beacon]

mainly mount like two small mods

[tall torrent]

ok

[toxic leaf]

my 6d is HH+burn, 7a is deathspitter dumdum

[tall torrent]

we're starting 1 then

[junior needle]

Yeah no wonder, you're missing HH on that

[toxic leaf]

yea

hadron has not been cooperating with me lately

[drowsy trout]

are the recon lasguns doing well with the changes?

[faint beacon]

Very well

[junior needle]

They're doing better, but not generally not iag tier of potential

[toxic leaf]

they usable in aurics now

[wanton dawn]

Depenf if you are a cat or a clown

[faint beacon]

just not, IAG cause well yeah its the IAG

[drowsy trout]

iag?

[toxic leaf]

so im using them because im bored with other weapons

[faint beacon]

Infantry Auto Guns

[toxic leaf]

infantry auto aka columbus

[drowsy trout]

aaah

[junior needle]

You can take them without feeling bad that you're purposefully gimping yourself

[drowsy trout]

Yeh was just curious been using my autogun for awhile and wanted to try laser show

[toxic leaf]

the actual meta of top tier vet guns hasnt changed

[junior needle]

They still need more handholding than other guns

[toxic leaf]

plasma and revolver >>>>> all other single shot specialist delete guns and columnus mk5 >>> autos

[terse idol]

Well yeah but recon changed abit

[toxic leaf]

but recons arent laughably bad anymore

[terse idol]

Huh?
More like plasma >revolver>Columnus> all others

[drowsy trout]

Which recon would people recommend and what blessings

[toxic leaf]

isnt that exactly what i said

plasma and revolver > other guns if you want single shot special killing

[terse idol]

You added all the one tap guns

[toxic leaf]

columnus > other guns if you want auto firing

[terse idol]

I don't think ilas is higher than columnus

Or any other semi auto headhunter

[toxic leaf]

columnus and plasma/revolver have different niches

[wanton dawn]

Fight me

[junior needle]

They are also generally quite close in dps until you get to gigajuice setups

[drowsy trout]

been using a MKV for awhile now and just wanted to change things up

[junior needle]

2 is no longer the lowest dps gun in the game

[toxic leaf]

so you decide what you want your gun to do and then pick based on that

[junior needle]

I'd recommend the 7a as generally the best due to ammo efficiency and cleave having

[torn gorge]

anyone else experience every now and then a freeze and a dc from the game?

[junior needle]

Yep

[torn gorge]

2014 code?

[toxic leaf]

in my (limited) experience, the mags and ammo are so big, with crit refund, you dont really have ammo issues across the models

[junior needle]

I don't get an error message when it happens unfortunately

[toxic leaf]

yea i jsut get booted and told i cant reconnect

no code

[junior needle]

Magazine size doesn't matter for ammo efficiency, as ammo pickups are based on reserve

[toxic leaf]

maybe i put it differently

wrongly

but each gun has such a large reserve rn that ammo problems are not there with crit refund talent

unless you have a team of lasguns or gunlugger ogryns

[junior needle]

The 2 didn't change on reserve but ironically it's the most ammo efficient one now

[toxic leaf]

i like the 2

[junior needle]

6d has about a mag less worth of damage compared to a 7a at baseline

or a 2

That gets stretched into more by various multipliers

[torn gorge]

7a cleave is also kinda irrelevant tbh

[junior needle]

It's helpful for getting to targets through trash

[toxic leaf]

if the 6d didnt have such shit reload, i would like it best

[torn gorge]

its only 1 body

[toxic leaf]

the 2 has the best reload and still good enough damage for me with burning

why teh 6d takes 6 years to reload, who the hell made that design choice

in the time it takes the 6d to reload, a revolver could have killed 24 specialists with its 6 round mag lmao

should i change unarmoured to +crit?

[junior needle]

7a is generally the best all around. 6d can get a bit higher dps in extenuating circumstance like gigajuice damage setups with onslaught (most notably on crushers), but the 7a has cleave and better ammo efficiency and the damage is still comparable.

maniac/flak/crit chance for perks and HH/dumdum for blessings (infernus is an optional replacement for dumdum primarily on the 6d).

[junior needle]

One of the mods who apparently did the balance changes

clebruyt is his name atm

[toxic leaf]

well it seems silly, but who am i to judge

[junior needle]

It is, utterly pointless change

[toxic leaf]

hmm i just noticed this is infernus 3 not 4, i should probably rep that for dumdum until i get infernus 4

should i do unarmored to crit chance or leave it?

[junior needle]

If you're going infernus then crit chance can be more competitive of an option.

[toxic leaf]

i dont have infernus 4 but i have dumdum 4 so i think it should switch it

[junior needle]

I'd go maniac or crit

instead of unarmored

[toxic leaf]

ya

[junior needle]

I like crit as personal preference because it's an all rounder and it's effectively 9.5% crit chance with crit strings

According to someone else who hopefully did the math right

[toxic leaf]

yea idk about the efficay of unarmored on a gun

i think thats a pretty easy switch

[coral willow]

wonder if they'll voc next patch since people bitch about even with VoC shooters murder them

[terse idol]

Voc stinky still

[toxic leaf]

stinky as in?

[junior needle]

Needs buffs

[toxic leaf]

wait really you think that

[coral willow]

no

but people die with one so im right about it

🤡

[midnight totem]

gods, the new shooters are brutal versus ogryns

[coral willow]

just supress them with your gun

[toxic leaf]

ogryns can just knock em all down with kickback

[torn gorge]

or rumbler

or just outgun them with the stubber

[junior needle]

Oh wow

The hipfiring of the 6d also makes you move slower compared to the other models now

Thanks fatshark

[coral willow]

i mean

gunners dont move

so

makes sense

[junior needle]

Gunners have volley guns

I'm using a regular lasgun

[coral willow]

yws

they cant move

but yours is lasgun so you can move(a bit)

[junior needle]

One model moves significantly slower than the other

They are the same size gun

There was no point to making these changes

[brave verge]

man I sure do wish these marksman rifles had marksman scopes, why are the iron sights on the vraks 7 so chunky holy shit

[tall torrent]

👍

+5% crit chance translates to ~9.5% more crits on recon

[hearty panther]

such an expensive week ;_;

how will i live without max ordos

[junior needle]

So the effective crit chance will be 1.9x your total crit?

On a 2 string

[faint beacon]

You guys actually have over 100k mats?

I always sit at 0 trying to make stupid fucking builds

[hearty panther]

at some point there is no more stupid to do

[tall torrent]

Practical %crit chance = crit length/[crit length - 1 + (1/%crit chance)]

[hearty panther]

i was close to 300k

[tall torrent]

in recon's case

2/(2-1+(1/5%)) = 0.095 = 9.5%

[mental cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

Me trying to just build a decent recon las at this point.

[tame lodge]

"looks good to me"

[hybrid torrent]

Does anybody remember what collateral % the recon lasguns need to be in order to suppress groaners in melee tange? Seems like groaners no longer wanna be suppressed by recon lasguns in melee range now.

[junior needle]

It's very simple

The only hard part is the casino

[junior needle]

Groaners basically don't get suppressed, been that way for a long time

They just flinch a little

[jagged stream]

Is the 6d the preferred recon las now?

[junior needle]

Not really. 7a has the best balance of ammo efficiency and utility, they're much closer than they used to be.

6d has a dps edge in gigajuiced setups with onslaught, most notably on crushers. But it's not a big deal.

It also has the worst ammo efficiency

[mental cloud]

Man you ain’t lying. You spend a million easy trying to roll shit. lol

[jagged stream]

@junior needle thanks for thr info

[junior needle]

I'd just give you one I have lying around

But fatshark won't let me

[mental cloud]

And then brick it lol

[junior needle]

It's already rolled

I have plenty

[tame lodge]

The crying cat PFP makes this funnier than it should

[mental cloud]

Daaamn I appreciate that tho. This is my main currently it ain’t much but does the job.

[hearty panther]

ye that'll do

[junior needle]

That's perfectly fine, just missing a bit of ammo

[hearty panther]

i gotta reroll all of mine for maniac damage

[junior needle]

Won't miss much

[hearty panther]

now that they actually do maniac damage

[jagged stream]

I take it infernus is a sun optimal blessing?

[junior needle]

Infernus is a sidegrade to dumdum on the 6d

But not really recommended for the slower models

[midnight totem]

Take both 😄

[hearty panther]

ye your only real options are dumdum/susfire/headhunt

[junior needle]

Don't take both

Headhunter is mandatory

[hearty panther]

infernus is ok on the 6d since you dump out so many bullets

and dumdum + infernus do boost one another

[jagged stream]

Headhunter/dumdum is the ideal then?

[junior needle]

Generally yes

[jagged stream]

for non 6d

got it thanks

[hearty panther]

id do sus tbh

[junior needle]

They do, but it's not worth the loss of a large crit chance boost and infernus also loses efficacy when you lose crit chance

I would strongly recommend against taking salvo blessings on them

[frank basin]

i always like you buddy

[hearty panther]

shur

i dont need mods right

[junior needle]

Already in one

[blazing cargo]

For weapon specialist keystone, is any ranged good beside zarona and that assault rifle that i forgotten the name of but everyone plays it?

[hearty panther]

where do i find that again lmao

i do not see it

oh fuck me

why not just

under my name

Fatsharrrrk

2887886754

[winter lake]

Hey lads what’s the difference with the new shock mauls? Trying to make an enforcer build

[hollow ibex]

honestly any ranged weapon is good, but WS benefits weapons that have big boom and small mags the most, like zarona

[pseudo fiber]

Moveset differences mainly

[somber axle]

OK SO

this has taken way longer than it should have because I spent a lot of time talking in a voice chat with a friend and listening to music but

[sinful jacinth]

Unpopular opinion probably. I can't be the only one that thinksthe new set head gear looks like shit on all 4 classes.

[somber axle]

I've been testing and compiling recordings/screenshots of talent tree set ups/weapons (for stat allocation, blessing choice, perks, etc.)

annnnd

@junior needle I was incorrect

ANYWAY LIKE

INSANELY

Mk II Recon had the craziest performance so far

With damage that is comparable to the Mk VIIa with substantially better DPS/TTK on Flak/Unyielding targets and the best ammo economy no contest

I was not expecting the Mk II Recon to somehow pull into 1st place in both metrics but with all the testing I can't ignore the video evidence in my eyes

I'm going to compile screenshots of talent trees, screenshots of weapons and the various recordings into a big album at some point

[wanton dawn]

That some sad display here 😄

[winter lake]

Which is better at what?

[timid moon]

how should i be building this class? I am only level 8. just started playing

[somber axle]

Somehow, some way, the Mk II Recon has been buffed into status as the #1 Recon for DPS/TTK on Flak/Unyielding
Recon Mk VId still takes the crown for Carapace damage though

[pseudo fiber]

Mk1 is better single target mk3 is better general... horde stuff (I think)

[somber axle]

To clarify I have tested at both close range and at roughly 8m+ to have buffs active on Bulwarks, Reapers, Maulers and Flak Ragers and recorded TTK/DPS on all targets for each of the Recon variants

[winter lake]

Focus on working up to lvl 30 don’t stress about ur gear super hard till then, if you need there is builds for Darktide on the website gaming latern it’s what I use

[somber axle]

close range in this test series is 0m-7m where buffs are inactive

[winter lake]

Omnissiah bless you, time to do a little testing

[timid moon]

level 3?

[winter lake]

30 lol woops

[somber axle]

It may be sad but I am a clown of science and not above admitting when I am wrong. Plus it is more important to present correct information! I'd rather look like a fool and share the truth than live a lie and look cool

Pride is worthless

Information is priceless

[wanton dawn]

was talking about me though

[somber axle]

Oh ok sorry LMFAO

I'm honestly not even sure what the correct format for sharing all this info could be

[last parcel]

powerpoint

[somber axle]

but I've recorded it so it's probably going to go into an imgur album or something

[last parcel]

[somber axle]

LMFAO

powerpoint presentation time

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-day-gif-18564553

[winter lake]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds u can check this to try n find a build you like

[somber axle]

I'm going to need to start running the Recon Mk II in more matches

[midnight totem]

I think I have a few recon IIs and IIas I need to dump plasteel into

[junior needle]

I'm also surprised to see the 2 there

[somber axle]

The Recon Mk II does the best single target DPS on Flak/Unyielding by a VERY slim margin compared to the other Recons. The only thing Recon Mk VIIa did better DPS/TTK on was the Mauler bodyshots weirdly enough

[somber axle]

Yes, yes, you were RIGHT

I'm already in the clown costume so there's not much more I can do to look like a fool LOL

Recon Mk VId does comparable DPS though

so it really isn't a major difference in DPS/TTK but the Recon Mk VId did prove to be both the lowest DPS and least ammo efficient variant with Recon Mk VIIa being slightly better, and the Recon Mk II being insanely good on ammo efficiency

Recon Mk II is the new king??

[junior needle]

I knew the 2 had the best ammo efficiency but the dps is surprising

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId's benefit is the very large clip size allowing for the longest extended volleys without reloading so you can keep the pressure up consistently through an engagement

[tall torrent]

Oh so mk2 is best now? Cool

[junior needle]

7a still has the cleave, although the higher rof feel better

[somber axle]

Yeah once I put all the recordings/info in an album I'll share

[junior needle]

The issue is it has poorer handling and reload speed, and also slows you down more when firing now for SOME REASON

I've absolutely no clue who thought this was a good idea

Actually I do have a clue

But I cannot fathom the reasoning

[somber axle]

It's being set into a unique weapon status as a light machine gun

no other gun has that feel in the Vet arsenal tbh

Braced Autoguns maybe?? but they will hit the bottom of the magazine faster

I think the reasoning is to try to make us feel like we're carrying the equivalent of like

https://tenor.com/view/halo-reach-warthog-gif-27184467

[junior needle]

If it's gonna be heavy as fuark it should have offensive stats worth it

[somber axle]

Slow awkward but a very consistent way of maintaining long term pressure and firepower

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/gift-for-boys-gif-14750720576449836807

[junior needle]

Taking a break to chat with some friends atm

Apart from shitposting here

I may be down later

[somber axle]

The devs could take another look at it after the dust settles and do more tuning but tbh I think it is fine as is. The difference in rate of fire/magazine size already sets it apart from the other two variants in a very fun niche that no other gun in the game other than Twinstubbers from Ogryns can even touch

That niche is just spray and pray but like this is 40k so the pray part is mandatory

[junior needle]

The fire rate is offset by the lower damage

[somber axle]

I think that's an important aspect to maintain tbh

[junior needle]

and mag size is one of the least relevant things with the recons

Given the others are hardly hurting on that end and then you have shocktrooper

[somber axle]

If you give it a massive magazine size, fastest rate of fire in the game and then give it high enough damage to beat out the other Recons handily you'll have people questioning why they would ever take the other Recons to begin with

[junior needle]

I think it shouldn't have the heavy handling and the slower reload if it doesn't have a sufficiently warranted offensive power

Compared to the other models, just unnecessary

[somber axle]

Recon Mk II's fire rate sits between the two other variants and has solid accuracy that rewards consistent headshots and is far easier to pull off vs the other two. It has the best ammo efficiency and surprisingly beats the Mk VIIa on TTK for Flak Ragers, Reapers and Bulwarks

She has gone from bottom tier to top tier

And after her status being compared to Shredder Autopistol for so long she deserves it

Recon Mk VIIa niche is solid DPS/TTK with cleave

It doesn't need better DPS than the Mk II because the cleave sets it apart and allows you to shoot through friendly ogryns, cleave crowds more efficiently, etc.

[torn gorge]

cleave on a low damage/shot platform?

[somber axle]

Recon Mk VId is just the gun for DAKKA

[junior needle]

Anyone can shoot through teammates now

[somber axle]

no the Recon Mk VIIa got buffed significantly and is now VERY strong

[junior needle]

With anything

Recent change

[somber axle]

oh that's REALLY nice

I hadn't even noticed

[torn gorge]

you are overplaying cleave on recon

[somber axle]

I've been near exclusively running Boltpistol and just assumed it had enough cleave value to go through friendlies

[torn gorge]

unless you are shooting hordes

[somber axle]

The cleave isn't on the same tier as Manstopper Scattershot Shotguns but it is noticeable for multi-target and pushing through hordes quicker to kill elites hiding in the mix

[tall torrent]

Boltpistol is actually the lowest cleave gun in the game

[junior needle]

It's a nice utility bonus for dealign with chaffe shooter crowds and hitting targets through mixed hordes

[tall torrent]

0.001 cleave

[hearty panther]

yep lmao

[somber axle]

that's INSANE LOL

[hearty panther]

actual zero cleave

[somber axle]

ok so yeah then I've definitely felt shooting through friendly players

[hearty panther]

which is a surprise

[somber axle]

this is such a nice quality of life change

[torn gorge]

thats balanced with the silly aoe stagger

on bolt pistol

at least on paper

[somber axle]

I mean Boltpistol doesn't need any cleave tbh

[tall torrent]

Just fyi veteran got buffed this patch

[torn gorge]

the use case is still very questionable in any case rn

[tall torrent]

Krak dmg increase, all weapons can go through teammates

[torn gorge]

can a vanilla krak kill a nurgle crusher now?

[tall torrent]

Krak now kills bulwark without dmg buffs

[slow spade]

THAT'S why shooters were so deadly suddenly

[somber axle]

Does this mean that Krak now consistently 1 shots bulwarks without needing Tinkerer or the combo of Bring It Down + Superiority Complex?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[slow spade]

I got actually downed by gunfire for the first time in like 8 months and it baffled me

[somber axle]

Ooo

Does that translate to even crazier boss damage on Kraks with Tinkerer/Bring It Down?

[slow spade]

Yes

[zinc surge]

could anyone help me understand what range finese power means? like how do i quanitfy what 75% range finese power does with 10 stacks of Marksman Focus?

[somber axle]

Imagine stacking 8 stack Focus Target and using buffed Kraks

[slow spade]

Its just a flat damage increase

[somber axle]

the Kraks will REALLY feel like Kraks now

[tall torrent]

They didn’t buff shooters’ dmg

They buffed scab shooters’ accuracy

[hearty panther]

finesse is a bracket term for weakspot and crit and weakspot crit damage

[slow spade]

They buffed accuracy

[tall torrent]

Shooter Changes

Scab Shooters now have a tighter shot spread, making them more threatening at range. While they still have ranged damage falloff, they will be more consistent in how they hit players at range.

Additionally, Scab/Dreg shooters will now stay in cover longer (and remain exposed longer) with a reduced cooldown between sprays, making cover-taking enemies more of a threat but also enhancing the viability of player weapons that apply suppression.

[slow spade]

Indeed