veteran-class

[radiant chasm]

So now we are getting a rework

It might also make it so players can get too far ahead of the rework

[abstract moth]

Bandaid passes?

[radiant chasm]

Penance update put you about halfway if you did most of the penances before the rework

[tall torrent]

My guess is that they’re scratching the current weapon building system entirely

Stat variance (5 stat rolls)

[radiant chasm]

Brunts shop, increasing the base range of level 30 drops, increasing odds weighting for higher tiers when upgrading 300-380 bases, melk rng “improved” (i dont think they did enough for melk tho)

[tall torrent]

So if they open locks the immediately scratch everything it’s kinda redundant

[radiant chasm]

Removing locks is a bandaid solution i dont want the system but easier i want a better system

[abstract moth]

If that's the case I really hope they don't mess it up, is already eh in this state, I would've be content with just lock removal too

[radiant chasm]

Idk hard to fuck up 3rd base

[radiant chasm]

A lot of people have said the same thing but imo going from 2 to 4 free slots would drastically lower the content for the same people

Talent rework and penance rework both were pretty solid imo, tho some book of grudges weirdos are anti talent tree for some reason

[abstract moth]

Ah so they made better equipment from brunt? So what we'll get even better from profane versions? Or they'll raise the cap from 580?

[uncut pebble]

I just played a game where I spawned in and instantly died because fatshark join in progress sucks horribly bad, right? Anyway, the veteran that was alive was running around with a plasma gun and dclaw, pretty standard loadout. Man died because he would not put his plasma gun away and use his sword to kill two basic enemies that were beating him to death.

[radiant chasm]

No, the improved range and brunt was the same patch

[uncut pebble]

And get this! He has Auric Exemplar for his equipped title!

[radiant chasm]

Iirc, before the brunt patch, item bases could go down to like, 270 or something

[radiant chasm]

Really easy to brute force titles or just have a bad day

I thought of a way to put this

[uncut pebble]

Nah bro you don't just "have a bad day" with this kind of bot gameplay.

Like he got hit, ran away, looked at them, and still wouldn't pull out the dclaw.

[radiant chasm]

Removing Locks doesn’t lower the gap between player items, it drastically benefits luckier players more in the short term

[radiant chasm]

Gave controller to younger sibling (idk)

[uncut pebble]

Oh we're talking about itemization here, nice.

[abstract moth]

Wdym? It requires way less grinding and less resources and can get whatever build you want without having to be dependent on rng, the content is still the same, kill stuff

[uncut pebble]

No.

Not the same.

[radiant chasm]

Builds are not as heavily reliant on rng as some people put them out to be

[abstract moth]

Ah alright

[radiant chasm]

Only for powersword and thrust 4 reliant weapons really, the rest you can be dramatically subpar and be just fine

[uncut pebble]

The only real "rng" thing is the stats on your weapons, and the game is pretty generous most times about giving you what you want.

[tall torrent]

Outside of a few weapons (Rashad, plasma), most weapons aren’t that strict in terms of building

[uncut pebble]

Unless brunt decides to troll the shit out of you and give you 7 mk4 duelling swords with important stats sitting under 60.

[tall torrent]

I still think the current system sucks

I’ll take DRG’s overclock grind over this ANY DAY

[uncut pebble]

It does suck.

[radiant chasm]

Yes everyone gets what they want, then they dont play it, there is always going to have to be a gear grind in some form

[tall torrent]

And DRG takes roughly a literal year to complete overclock grind

[uncut pebble]

But most arguments to "improve it" suck worse.

[abstract moth]

I don't want to spend millions or coins and resources to get everything I want where I want it, same for curious can only change 2

It would give more diversity

[uncut pebble]

That's tough.

[radiant chasm]

Yea ngl the variance between weapons families can be huge

5 damage stat weapons like knife for example

[uncut pebble]

It's literally the gameplay loop that you're asking to be removed.

What motivates you to play the game other than getting better gear?

[radiant chasm]

Kinda the opposite, everyone would run bis if they can

[uncut pebble]

If I could fix the unarmored damage stat on my helbore, would I still bother trying to play veteran?

The answer is no.

I would not touch vet again.

[tall torrent]

Just so u know mk2 Helbore wants +unarmored dmg perk

[radiant chasm]

And frankly, you dont need to spend millions on anything besides builds in the danger zone

[uncut pebble]

It's a mk3, unfortunately.

[tall torrent]

Ah

[uncut pebble]

It came with surgical 4 so I ditched the one I had and threw weight of fire 4 and carapace on it.

The point remains, though.

I wouldn't play vet if I had a perfect helbore.

Then I'd go grind something else to perfection, then another, then another, and suddenly I'm out of things to grind for.

That is literally the entire gameplay loop and you're asking to lobotomize it.

[abstract moth]

Wdym, I don't play for the gear never did, just for killing stuff and I think the majority does it for the same reason, getting what you want just makes more simple in getting your specific build. I'll play the game regardless of gear or not as I've always had

[uncut pebble]

Then you are a 1 in a million player.

You are an outlier, plain and simple.

[radiant chasm]

If you dont play for the gear then trust me

[modern crescent]

the entire vermintide cata playerbase wondering how many millions of players are playing vermintide

[radiant chasm]

Besides specific, danger zone weapons, you do not need to spend your wallet out anything to use something

[uncut pebble]

I genuinely believe cata players are insane. Played like 2 minutes of a cata mission just to see what it was like and I mistimed one parry on a stormvermin and died.

[abstract moth]

I don't play for the gear, my gameplay loop always been the killing, same on left 4 dead or world war z for example

[radiant chasm]

Im just done with vt2

[modern crescent]

this is why you play for the grind

[radiant chasm]

Then i recommend you take a step back against some of the players in this discord that insist that you need bis or a weapon is useless

[uncut pebble]

Again, that makes you an outlier.

[abstract moth]

I don't really run metas

[tall torrent]

Having some grind is fine
DRG has OC grind that lasts for like a literal year and it’s still several times better than DT crafting

[radiant chasm]

I am like one of the few people in this discord that had an overall negative vt2

[uncut pebble]

DRG also just added in the ability to grind out previous passes, right?

[tall torrent]

Yea I’ve been on DRG since s5 dropped, it’s peak

[radiant chasm]

Yea but i played with friends and i dont have overclocks yet and i need purple rock with blue growths or was it blue rock with purple growths

[tall torrent]

Already finished all 6 engineer weapon masteries

[uncut pebble]

I played a bit a while back, mained gunner, it was really fun when I had others to play it with.

[radiant chasm]

It’s gameplay loop like hd2 doesnt interest me without friends

[abstract moth]

If I want all the 4 lvl blessings you do, even more so if you want a weapon to have all good stats and hope hardon doesn't mess it up

[tall torrent]

No u just do deep dive, promotions & core hunt weeklies

[uncut pebble]

Now all the friends I had to play it with either moved on to other games or I have broken off contact because of various reasons.

[tall torrent]

It is a lot of grind, but the catch is

[radiant chasm]

No idea what this means

[tall torrent]

Even though it’s a long grind, there’s a definitive endpoint to it

[radiant chasm]

You dont need them for your goal

If you dont want to play for the meta

Then dont

[tall torrent]

At one point u will get all weapon mods & overclocks

[radiant chasm]

You can clear damnation with a grey chaxe given enough time and skill

[tall torrent]

Basically there’re events that refresh weekly, u do them to get overclocks

[radiant chasm]

Not a very grindable game

It’s very dense and multilayered i just gun bug hordes down while my team is doing stuff

[uncut pebble]

I think the best thing in DRG, to my knowledge, is the nuclear bomb overclock for engineer's gl. One of my buddies always used to have a keybind that played the word "sinner" bass boosted whenever he would see a lootbug, then he'd nail it with the nuke.

[tall torrent]

Darktide is like
Doesn’t matter how long u play, doesn’t matter how many blessings u unlock, you’re about as equally fucked in terms of rolling weapons as someone who’s halfway there, or even someone who’s starting to grind blessings

[radiant chasm]

Yes and that is one of the issues hopefully being tackled in the rework and what removing locks wouldnt solve

[tall torrent]

If I have every single blessing of every single tier unlocked for veteran, and I still can’t go start a new loadout with stuff I want immediately, it doesn’t feel engaging to work with

[uncut pebble]

Personally, if they would add a function to be able to improve your stats on items, I'd take it.

[abstract moth]

I do how I'm I supposed to experiment with builds if I can't get all the lvl 4 blessings and the perks I want? Is simply done this way to make it way grinding than it had to be

[tall torrent]

And yes I’m one of the few insane people who got every blessing of every tier on every weapon for veteran

[uncut pebble]

Man filled out his stickerbook.

Respect.

[radiant chasm]

But yall overhyped drg i’m here to kill bugs not mulitask mining interior decoration exploration and transportation

[radiant chasm]

Unless there is specific breakpoints you need you can do just fine with t3 blessings and perks

[tall torrent]

DRG gameplay loop is not as interesting as DT, and the combat design is not as engaging imo
But basically everything else about DRG is better

[radiant chasm]

On 99% of builds

[abstract moth]

I know I used to play with grey items then people pointed out and left so I got more into the crafting

[uncut pebble]

That goes hand in hand with harder missions. It ain't that much different than darktide having to manage like 10 different specialist spawns, a monstrosity, and approximately 49 elites.

[radiant chasm]

No one takes my mobility scooter ziplines

I remember setting up for this big gold vein on a ledge only for my scout friend to swoop in and mine it

[uncut pebble]

Average scout gameplay.

Just play engineer and give him your "sandwich."

[tall torrent]

Gunner’s ziplines are for team traversal, not rly for mining individual veins

[uncut pebble]

(block of c4)

[tall torrent]

Scout’s been the worst class in the game for like 2 years straight

[radiant chasm]

Uhh we got big on screen healthbars, those specialists that cloak and break shield, the ones that grab you and fling you around, ground goopers

[radiant chasm]

Between the miner and engineer and scout i dont think anyone but me use them once

[abstract moth]

I mean I'm the type I either do it or don't, if I need to power up a weapon I want the max lvl up perks other wise I feel it is futile even make it better

[tall torrent]

Gunner’s ziplines are handy for whole team to move to somewhere high up or down below where platforms are too awkward/costly basically

[coral willow]

i cheated to get oc so idk

least drg you can cheat

[uncut pebble]

Why would you cheat yourself like that?

[radiant chasm]

Then ngl, until the rework drops you are purposely playing in a way to aggravate yourself

[uncut pebble]

Smh.

[tall torrent]

If u don’t it goes for about a year till u have every overclock for every class

In that time you’d have enough resources to buy all weapon upgrades

In darktide the system just sucks, simply put

It has no respect for ur time

[coral willow]

physical limitation of like 3 weapon OC per week

DT doesnt have that but it has a worse rng system

[tall torrent]

It’s not as bad as that now since promotions give u matrix cores too

1 blank, 1 weapon, 1 cosmetic

[coral willow]

yeah its been better nowdays

so you get 4 cores per week i think base and promotions give you extra

[tall torrent]

DT’s system really sucks the more time u put into it

[coral willow]

well

[abstract moth]

I mean I don't really care I'd still play the game like I've always did, still I'm pointing out the reality and it is a bit annoying they keep delaying this "rework" that's all

[coral willow]

least you could put more time into it

[radiant chasm]

Dt system is when you realize most of it is bs you can ignore

And only breakpoints matter

[tall torrent]

I have 700hrs in DRG and I have every single overclock & weapon upgrade, and now I just play for fun / cosmetics

[coral willow]

i hated DRG's oc physical blockade

[radiant chasm]

Now there is a few instants that will matter a lot but

[tall torrent]

It’s still much better than DT’s system

[abstract moth]

Pretty much

[coral willow]

well least you are guaranteed to get everything

so

theres that

[modern crescent]

can't have people who do nothing but play the game run out of dripfeed to suckle on

[radiant chasm]

Not every weapon is dueling sword crusher BP you can get by getting perfect 80 stats, elite and carapace and even more bonuses

It’s a lesson in humility and the monkey and the fool, if you do as the monkey says and does then you aren’t very bright

[tall torrent]

Darktide could & should be adding more cosmetic related stuff for u to play with as endgame grind

[radiant chasm]

Break the cycle, realize sub perfection can often be just as good because the system is literally built to be impossible to reliably get true best in slot

[tall torrent]

Instead of this arbitrarily inflated gear grind

[radiant chasm]

That is the penances tbh and that system is meant to be way easier to add onto now

[tall torrent]

It can be more, is what I’m saying

DRG added weapon mastery and it’s nice

[abstract moth]

Yeah I'd be more pleased with that

[tall torrent]

DT has 1 mastery set (Moebian 6th Armor)

It can be more

Why not more weapon skins

[coral willow]

well better than damage 0 sword

[abstract moth]

Like the penance stuff was a bother specially the zealot, but I did it for the cosmetics. I wouldn't be against if they do more stuff like that

[tall torrent]

Much easier to make than character skins, actually visible to u in majority gameplay, far less clipping problems

[coral willow]

really confused as to why they arent adding more weapon colorings

probably could juice like 20 colors

[fiery wave]

They did

It sucked

[radiant chasm]

Idk why they havent added a dye/camo color system to some of the generic sets

[tall torrent]

No?

Penance update is fine

[radiant chasm]

Let me be my powder pink winterhome getup

[fiery wave]

The 4500 set is bad

[abstract moth]

Probably because they are undecided on how much real money they want you to spend so they don't drop it yet or just do it for a single weapon

[tall torrent]

It looks good imo, besides the “mask without helmet” part

Bit weird that there’s no helmet + mask combo but outside of that the Armor looks fine

[abstract moth]

I mean is alright that really gives you drive to do more

[manic cloak]

I bet this will be a future penance reward. The combo of the mask and helmet has been datamined way back.

[tall torrent]

Ik it will be, just a matter of time

I’d still rather they’ve added the Armor set instead of not adding it

I think they should do more for weapon cosmetics

[abstract moth]

More free cosmetics and challenges to do in order to get, I think is alright, given the cosmetics don't straight suck

[fiery wave]

The cash shop sets are superior to the blue set you get for doing the majority of the penances

[tall torrent]

I’ll take 120 color patterns for every weapon over grinding materials to get a 2% better weapon over the previous one

[abstract moth]

Absolutely

[tall torrent]

Give me a pink color scheme for combat axe, not even a remodel

Just paint the axe blade pink

I’ll grind it

[modern crescent]

i'll take 20 color patterns instead if they make the patterns good instead of candy cane, mint toothpaste, and random vomit palette

[tall torrent]

But not sinking 8M dockets to get a 2% better combat axe that hits breakpoints with 1 less headtaker stack

[fiery wave]

Only 8m?

[tall torrent]

8M is rookie number for Rashad yea

Just an example tho

[abstract moth]

I mean I'd do it for all black patterns but even other colors would be alright and it is a nice reward

[tall torrent]

This current system has no respect for playtime

[fiery wave]

@narrow frost spent like 15 grinding for a 550 mk4 dueling sword

Didn’t get it

[tall torrent]

Duelling sword BPs are much easier than Rashad tho?

[fiery wave]

He wants the perfect weapon

[tall torrent]

Cuz like, warp charge/DD both send u over major breakpoints rly easily

[narrow frost]

@ in vet class

smh

[tall torrent]

550 is pointless

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-40k-psyker-explode-perils-gif-10586129510772702813

[tall torrent]

I don’t even chase 550

I’m looking for 540+

And it’s still hard even after collecting every blessing of every tier on every weapon

[narrow frost]

I think I have already spent 16 mil trying to get my mk4 dueling

[tall torrent]

That’s just disrespectful

[fiery wave]

I’m chasing a 550 mk3 knife on my zealot

[tall torrent]

Yes obv but having the option to choose based on ur own taste is nice

540~550 has basically no difference in gameplay, I just don’t want 530s anymore

[fiery wave]

But it would make me happy

[abstract moth]

F I'm so wating for space marine 2. Want to do a badass melee build

[tall torrent]

540+ with ideal perk & blessing is basically perfection

[fiery wave]

80 in all stats, 60 mobility, the perfect knife

[abstract moth]

Plus all 3 speed curios

[fiery wave]

I run 3 stam 21 health 17 toughness

Balanced

As all things should be

[tall torrent]

I actually think +2stam is a top tier 2nd perk choice for knife

U get to bypass the need for +stam curio

[abstract moth]

I mostly do balanced too, but I have some builds and abilities that go towards one thing, like tank, speed or stamina

[tall torrent]

And it doesn’t change breakpoints basically

[coral willow]

478 works for gameplay tbh

[uncut pebble]

I'm going to launch Hadron directly out of an airlock.

Upgraded 3 profane power swords for blessings and got wrath 3 on all of them.

THATS 4 NOW

WHY HADRON

[last parcel]

just make better choices xd

[fiery wave]

Become pegged-by-hadron

[thin stone]

What

Quick Question

Do you want Deathspitter+ DumDum or FirE Frenzy+ DumDum

[fiery wave]

Did I stutter

[abstract moth]

I mean I'd end Hadron if I could aside the fact that she literally enjoys watching us suffer when she breaks our weapons and steal our resources, and the fact she's a tad bit annoying

That's funny

[thin stone]

Ayo

[thin stone]

So what about this

[narrow frost]

I use dire frenzy and dum dum

but both are useable

[covert timber]

What why

[thin stone]

I like Deathspitter because it applies to all ranges

[junior needle]

Fire frenzy applies at most ranges, but it works like anoint in blood

So it's a tapering damage boost up to 30m

The second blessing option doesn't really matter on IAG's and you can more or less take what you want

[round condor]

should i use a specific games lantern build?

[tall torrent]

Death spitter is usually slightly better

[thin stone]

Anoint on Blood?

[midnight totem]

On a long enough timeliness, every build is a gameslantern build

[round condor]

ok?

[tame lodge]

Talent on the Zealot's tree
More Ranged damage the closer you are to the target

[thin stone]

I see

So what distance is counted as close range?

After which the fire frenzy blessing doesn't apply?

[midnight totem]

What do you prefer to focus on. Melee or Ranged

[junior needle]

"Close range damage" has been normalized to max effect up to 8m and then tapering off until 30m.

"Close range" however is currently 7-8m.

[thin stone]

That's not that far ...

Yeh I'll stick to Deathspitter

Rather have that consistent single stack

[junior needle]

30m is pretty far

Deathspitter stacks to 5

[thin stone]

No it doesn

[junior needle]

It does

[round condor]

Melee

[junior needle]

the tooltip is misleading

[thin stone]

Bruh

[junior needle]

Welcome to fatshark

[thin stone]

I didn't know that

So Deathspitter is just better firefrenzy?

[junior needle]

The power is generally better imo, since it's unconditional damage and also cleave (and stagger)

ff technically has higher pure damage potential

But I'd say DS is better

[midnight totem]

Prefer stealth or team support?

[round condor]

support?

[midnight totem]

And power sword is reliant on having power cycler 3 or 4 blessing

[junior needle]

The sprint one is also fairly nice utility

Which also synergizes with deadshot/dnd

[round condor]

[midnight totem]

Don't know what power cycler is?

[round condor]

i do but idk about vet a tall

[midnight totem]

Alrighty. Basically it's mandatory for power swords

[round condor]

ogryn strong together

[midnight totem]

If you don't have the blessing, might as well use a chainsword or shovel

Or knife for melee

Here's a quick and dirty skill tree for you to use

[round condor]

my aim is poopoo, just moved to mak. any good shotgun builds?

[midnight totem]

Depends on the shotgun, but this'll work for shotties too

[round condor]

sweet

[midnight totem]

Shotguns aren't exactly weak, but they're underutilized

[round condor]

im looking for a good lawbringer

[round condor]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/veteran-squad-leader good build?

[midnight totem]

Eh. It'll work, but I'd have done a few things differently

[fiery wave]

No melee nodes

Rough

[midnight totem]

That too. If you prefer melee, that build is not it

[round condor]

so just use this and use whatever gun i want?

[midnight totem]

This is built more for plasma or a revolver in mind, perhaps even a headhunter autogun

Agrippina shotgun too

But it's very well balanced in the respects I think you want

Improved shredder frags for crowd control, good ranged damage, voc for team toughness support and knockback, weapon specialist and agile engagement to boost damage and swapping between weapons

[tall torrent]

Can use improvements

No stam regen boost (left), rending strikes usually not necessary, 8 stacks for keystone is not worth, longshot not needed, catch a breath is usually better than get back in the fight, target down is not necessary for plasma, blaze away isn’t as good as gloryhunter in most situations, plasma’s perks are wrong, etc

[round condor]

worried ill mess it up and not realize, got a build already drawn up by chance?

[round condor]

ff

[tall torrent]

What

[round condor]

any recomendations?

[tall torrent]

For plasma?

[fiery wave]

Not using it

[tall torrent]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/984525651904176209/1251793340500938783/Screenshot_2024-06-16_023601.png?ex=667870a5&is=66771f25&hm=9832e8aeaadc0eb8e90be1bece0e813db974931c7723d2c6e97b2cab3f432e2e&

@round condor

Optionally switch FTE to born leader if u wanna feed teammates toughness with gloryhunter (shoot elites)

Plasma is pretty hard to roll a perfect one tho

#veteran-class message

[round condor]

shotguns or anything fun but effective

[tall torrent]

shotguns are in a weird spot for veteran

I think laspistols are the strongest "fun" guns rn

[round condor]

new to MaK my aim poopoo

[tall torrent]

Braced autoguns then I guess?

Veteran in general care about headshots a lot (plasma included)

[round condor]

maybe i should make a zelot lol 😅

[stoic mantle]

Folks

for the smoke grenade penance

by engulf do they just mean have the enemies enter it?

can I easymode this penance by tossing it in a doorway a horde is coming from?

[somber axle]

Yes but only on groaners, not poxwalkers

[junior needle]

You for sure don't want savage sweep on a 13g, it needs wrath. This is due to struggling to hit enough targets to proc either rampage or SS when bruisers enter the mix.

[thorny cobalt]

how we lookin, gamers?

[junior needle]

Going all 3 nodes for ping is a bit excessive as well

And rending strikes is unnecessary for plasma

Mostly ok but makes some simple mistakes

Oh wait someone answered already

Well the chainsword bit wasn't mentioned so it wasn't a total waste

[stoic mantle]

Why is there a difference?

[winter grove]

You can grab brautos

It's the "Aim in general direction of enemy and shoot" gun

Otherwise Veteran really loves headshots

[somber axle]

Poxwalkers can't be suppressed, groaners can

Poxwalkers are basically zombies

They don't really care

Groaners are kinda like infected humans with some semblance of humanity left

you can hear them scream "help me!!" sometimes

Just look for the ones who wear clothes

Poxwalkers are usually shirtless

poxwalkers also usually have odd mutations like horns and claws

The reason I am so well acquainted with which can be suppressed is that I use a Recon Mk VId

most people are not aware but the high fire rate can make an entire horde sit stunned while you're putting volleys into ragers LOL

it's really useful and funny when the whole group of groaners just suddenly start panicking and cowering while I'm shooting specials/elites

you will probably not see this interaction often outside of like

braced autoguns?

but it does mean you can get the smoke grenade penance a LOT faster and easier throwing smoke grenades at any horde you see wearing clothes

but also most Vets consider suppression to be a useless mechanic so they don't look at it or touch it

[stoic mantle]

So engulfing enemies means suppressing them?

[winter grove]

Is suppression really any useful?

Outside of few situations

If there are any kind of those situations

[manic cloak]

Deliberately? No. Think of it as an added benefit to some weapons.

[somber axle]

Yeah drop the smoke grenade at their feet and when the smoke grenade first pops it will suppress enemies that can be suppressed

[somber axle]

Yes it is very useful in my experience

[winter grove]

Wonder if Vet can actually make Ius useful

[somber axle]

Suppression an entire line of gunners and reapers is invaluable CC imo

All just for spraying at one of the Reapers I have kept all of that enemy ranged line from firing at my squad

[winter grove]

How do you suppress a reaper

With what

[somber axle]

Easily

With a Recon Mk VId

Have you never seen their animation cowering?

They kinda duck their heads a little and try to hide behind one of their arms

It's kinda silly

[winter grove]

As a Mg12 main: No

[somber axle]

It's not even exclusive to the Recon Mk VId

You can do this with other guns too

Any weapon with solid fire rate like Infantry Autoguns, Braced Autoguns, etc. will scare them into that suppression animation

Reapers have a surprisingly low suppression threshold

To me keeping 4 reapers from firing all at once just for doing what I am already doing: shooting at them

is a very strong CC tool

[winter grove]

Mk6d is the yellow one right?

[somber axle]

while killing the first reaper the other three start cowering and none of them are shooting at my squad

[winter grove]

Or was it blue

[stoic mantle]

I'm a CIAG main

[somber axle]

I should warn that the Recons are all on the lower end of the damage scale for the Vet arsenal and I alleviate this with a funny build

[stoic mantle]

I just fucking kill them

[somber axle]

Yeah a CIAG should suppress them too

[stoic mantle]

Who needs suppression when they're all dead in .5s

[somber axle]

It has the fire rate to spook them while shooting in their direction at one

[winter grove]

Honestly I love MG12

I dunno why people advised me not to use it

[somber axle]

In theory that sounds good but in practice I've found that keeping an entire line of enemy ranged shooters from firing is very, very useful. Because nothing happens in a vacuum and in Aurics you always have specials and elites roaming to contend with, not just the ranged elites in the back peppering the squad

I'm also killing them quick

The difference is that my Reapers are not shooting back

[winter grove]

Like MG1a might be better overall but I like clicking heads with big dmg

[somber axle]

But anyway yeah this is like

[winter grove]

Recon - Reapers don't shoot back because they're suppressed
CIAG - Reapers don't shoot back because they're dead

[somber axle]

The difference between a clown who engages in an ignored mechanic, and Vets who have chosen to ignore it while still engaging in it through other means

It's a similar effect to smoke grenades, to Psyker bubble, to Zealot stun grenade, etc.

The targets are still alive but they're no longer a threat

Some people value the CC, others don't plan around using CC and always plan to kill things faster than the AI director can send them

[winter grove]

What about Ius? Can vet make it work?

[junior needle]

The shredder?

[winter grove]

Yup

[junior needle]

It's another underperforming weapon

[somber axle]

Shredder Autopistol is funny because it can suppress but it's also very weak

[junior needle]

you have better options

[somber axle]

I've made a funny build to kill Crushers with it

I ran it in Auric Damnation quickplay and it was surprisingly effective tbh

[junior needle]

Note that any weapon stacking rending can kill crushers

[somber axle]

Not any weapon

[stoic mantle]

Doesnt shredder have dum dum?

[junior needle]

Any weapon

[winter grove]

I'd run it just for the memes

[somber axle]

Recon Mk II and Recon Mk VIIa will struggle

[junior needle]

Stacking rending

[stoic mantle]

dum dum can make any weapon usable

[somber axle]

I've tested them and the slower fire rate doesn't lend to using Onslaught very effectively

[winter grove]

Recon Mk2 is a weapon you shouldn't consider using ever tbf

[somber axle]

Maybe if you go 10 stack Marksman's Focus with the 10% rending and then get Rending Strikes 10%

[junior needle]

I said can, not that it's always efficient

[somber axle]

but do you actually plan to always be at 10 stacks whenever crushers are around? LOL

because in theory and in practice are very different things

[junior needle]

I don't wanna hear that from clown shoes

Also you can get the crabwalk stacking

[winter grove]

@somber axle show me the ius build

I want the meme

[junior needle]

Which gives you stacks while crouching or standing still

[somber axle]

It's a fine weapon imo. I've used it and it is undertuned on damage but it's still useable in Aurics if you treat it more like an automatic Kantrael Infantry Lasgun. It's not there to shoot at Crushers and shouldn't be set up talent-wise for that purpose. But it can be used to solid effect dumping into elite/special heads

[stoic mantle]

I loathe marksman's focus

[somber axle]

Are you saying crab walk in Aurics as a legitimate build

[somber axle]

yeah sure one sec lemme find it

[junior needle]

It's not a fine weapon, your build just makes it less bad by stacking a ton of damage

[somber axle]

https://gyazo.com/3b24dfe506d548548b5a1f75bb7d50bc

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1246318254092320948/image-179-1.png?ex=6678f4d3&is=6677a353&hm=969814f759d52cc4e64ac7ac65663d966df9b4db2b847aee9264c8d6a31584d1&

[winter grove]

Mk2 is still kinda literally worst option of all

[stoic mantle]

The game wants you to shoot and move and dodge, and unless you're using ranged even when you should be using melee, then you're bleeding focus stacks

[somber axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1246318254474133594/image-223-1.png?ex=6678f4d3&is=6677a353&hm=facd34bbf1badfbc2b21a5ced97c36eef593f52ca3f3b7468dbe4fd1c236e24d&

[junior needle]

I'm saying if you want on demand stacks of MF at any time, you can just take that

[umbral scaffold]

What sociopath made this

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shock-eyes-out-big-eyes-what-gif-26401236

[winter grove]

It's easy

[junior needle]

It's literally just "stack tons of damage to compensate for how bad the weapon is"

[somber axle]

crouching to build MF stacks during a crusher pack sounds like a lesson in how to die unless you're sitting in Infiltrate waiting for it to build

[junior needle]

and stack rending

[umbral scaffold]

It's braindead easy, but I don't want to smoke every single creature on sight

[winter grove]

But I wanna use the Meme

[somber axle]

Tbh

You could probably swap Duck and Dive to Close Quarters Kill Zone

and get even MORE damage out of the Shredder Autopistol

[winter grove]

If you don't smoke every creature alive are you really a smoker vet

[somber axle]

This was before I knew how Close Range Damage worked

[junior needle]

You will be gimping yourself, just a heads up

[winter grove]

Oh I know that

You don't have to tell me how bad Ius is

I just wanna use it as a meme

[somber axle]

If you want you can trade Longshot/Exhil Takedown for Close Quarters Drill and Confirmed Kill because the +1 stam node under it works out better for Deadshot uptime

I use triple stam curios always

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jordan-4-rings-gif-7123838007368282913

[somber axle]

because I am a clown

[somber axle]

Throw smoke grenades at groaners and you'll do it fast. They're the horde enemies that look less like zombies and more like humans. They scream "HELP ME" and wear tshirts.

It's extra funny instagibbing a Crusher in front of a squad of players in an Auric using a Shredder because like

[umbral scaffold]

But I don't want to smoke needlessly

[somber axle]

no one expects that to work

LMFAO

[winter grove]

Yes you do

Are you a smoker

[stoic mantle]

get every grenade economy booster and spam spam spam

[junior needle]

It's more to help you passively maintain stacks, but you ideally proc it before you start dealing with the crusher pack (or let others engage it in melee while you shoot)

If we're talking about dealing with a crusher pack while it's already in your face then MF isn't going to help you

Just pull out your melee

[somber axle]

Yeah it's too much extra juggling

[winter grove]

Yeah just use a krak lmao

[astral blade]

Ya know I don’t get something why is it allot of vets only have 1 wound and not 2 wounds

[somber axle]

My Recon Mk VId and even the Shredder Autopistol just pops Exe Stance and goes BRRRRR into a Crusher head to kill

Even without Exe Stance it has the crit/rending to cut them down with an ok TTK

[winter grove]

What's wrong with running 0 wound curios

Veterans aren't squishy at all

[somber axle]

Plus it's another talent point for the 10 stack 10% Rending

[manic cloak]

Running a wound curio is only for players that aren't confident in themselves.

[junior needle]

Yes, any automatic with onslaught can do that

[somber axle]

Not the Recon Mk II or Recon Mk VIIa

Fire rate on both are too slow to matter for solid TTK

[junior needle]

Can

Key word

Can

Any automatic can blast crushers well enough with onslaught, even if others do it better

[somber axle]

If I duct tape wheels to my wrists and ankles I can be a bicycle. But just because I can doesn't mean I would be an effective bicycle

[winter grove]

You run 0 wound curios, because you're confident in yourself and your skill
I run 0 wound curios, because I am a moron that says "Nah, I'd win" with 80% hp corruption

[astral blade]

I know that but I do run a wound curio not that I don’t have confidence in my abilities it’s more of a precaution

Busters and dogs being a thing

[manic cloak]

Make the switch and start playing without it is the only way to break the habit.

[winter grove]

Neither busters or dogs are an issue

[somber axle]

Also like you can get Close Quarters Drill, Iron Will, Confirmed Kill and even extra toughness gain squadwide through Target Down in the Focus Target tree so it's not nearly as glass cannon as it seems

[winter grove]

I forgot the last time I got caught by a dog ngl

[astral blade]

No but they can bypass the whole wounds thing

[junior needle]

The other recons have perfectly useable fire rate for onslaught

[somber axle]

Through consistent Target pinging and killing you can stay pretty healthy

[astral blade]

So technically they are an issue

[junior needle]

Certainly better at killing crushers than you would be as a bicycle

[winter grove]

Best advice against them would be "Just don't get hit"

Just like everything in the game

[somber axle]

Idk I think I could be a pretty good bicycle

[winter grove]

Also there's a funny thing with HP stims and wounds

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-adeptus-mechanicus-mechanicus-warhammer-tech-priest-gif-14919800332216808310

[astral blade]

try telling that to a horde and throw in a dog or pox burster

[tall torrent]

because bodyshots on it suck and nobody hits 100% headshots

[somber axle]

From the moment I understood the weakness of flesh, I duct taped wheels and ascended

[junior needle]

Even without onslaught, rending stacking can push weapons into giga crusher killing

[winter grove]

HP stims heal a whole wound or 25% of your HP, whichever is larger

And 2 wounds are 50% hp each

[tall torrent]

if only infantry lasguns had innate suppression immunity

[winter grove]

So Hp stim just heal more of you have 0 wound curios

[winter grove]

Amen

[junior needle]

#veteran-class message

#veteran-class message

[somber axle]

I don't think anyone, even me, would use a Recon Mk II or Recon Mk VIIa build centered around Crusher killing. It's just not effective with Onslaught so you end up needing MF 10 stack Rending instead and that's too conditional for how movement heavy Aurics are to maintain

[winter grove]

True, but I am getting better every time I aim for the heads

[somber axle]

Investing into MF means worse Stam too

No Focus Target and Target Down to help juggle Stam for higher Deadshot uptime

[tall torrent]

u running opening salvo + ghost?

[winter grove]

Yup

[somber axle]

It ends up being the wrong keystone for longer crit volleys

[junior needle]

"It's just not effective, there's better options" says the recon advocate

[somber axle]

Less crits, less free shots from shock trooper, less damage

[astral blade]

Heh kinda funny those running stealth vet and see a pox bomber coming charging towards me to only stop dead in its tracks for it to think about its life choices when popping infiltrate

[somber axle]

I have standards. They are low but not so low I would take either of the other Recons for Crusher hunting

[astral blade]

Than go back to targeting some random smuck

[somber axle]

You'd need a magnifying glass or a microscope to locate where my standards are for how low they are though

But anyway the synergy not being there is what bothers me most

It works, it just doesn't work well

[junior needle]

I have standards.
It's time to turn in your clown shoes

[astral blade]

Wait is it a dick move to pop stealth and have the pox bomber target some other poor sod on ya team

[last parcel]

so that's why we lost leslie

[somber axle]

Have you seen the clown hierarchy? There are worse clowns than me. Rodeo clowns. MIMES

[winter grove]

I have standards too. Ius and Recons are objectively bad, but that's the reason why I wanna use them

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/sniper-tf2-professionals-have-standards-drive-gif-15105282

[astral blade]

That we do

[tall torrent]

if MG12 had the same ADS move speed like MG4 I think I'd like it more

[junior needle]

There's a new clown in town

[last parcel]

would

[tall torrent]

not sure why most guns have to strafe at ~2m/s when u ADS in this game

[astral blade]

Who the clown?

[junior needle]

Me, I have declared myself to be Chuckles

[somber axle]

I changed my character name because using my irl name for a character felt dumb in retrospect and I had always wanted to change it anyway LOL plus Mira is my WoW character's name

[winter grove]

Praise be the Honkmother

[somber axle]

They're fun to me and that's all they ever needed to be

[winter grove]

True

I have a shotgun build I genuinely run, so who I am to judge

[astral blade]

Ahhh shit I should stop using my IRL name then

In game

[winter grove]

They won't know :)

[last parcel]

i thought everyone used their irl name

[winter grove]

ZealotChamp

[somber axle]

Legally change my name irl to Sneaky Clown

[last parcel]

champ, meet queen

[winter grove]

Oh god

[last parcel]

shoutout to juicy bussy squirt on the mourningstar

[winter grove]

Never say anything like that ever again

[last parcel]

anything like that ever again

ha! that didn't do an

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-disintegrate-half-life2-hl2-gif-23941439

[junior needle]

Sounds like a rare and valuable woman

[tall torrent]

I changed my veteran’s name to warden from the amount of people I had to babysit in quick play

[last parcel]

MISERUM

[winter grove]

Warden Babysitorium

[junior needle]

And don't forget this gem

[tall torrent]

#veteran-class message

What missing a space does

[umbral scaffold]

Gamers, it is a sad day

I thought I could infinitely stack crucian roulette with weapon specialist

https://tenor.com/view/angy-cat-angry-kitty-sitting-kitti-gif-20632614

"Resets on reload" my ass

[coral willow]

so how does crucian work on zarona then

if you start out in like 4 shots do you get less crit chance?

that sucks

[umbral scaffold]

Each weapon specialist reload reduces it by 1

I assume if you reload 2 shots it reduces it by 2

And doing a manual reload just vents all of the stacks

[coral willow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1251939934588375070/1715087828_new_PerishFelvidek.gif

[somber axle]

Tbh Crucian has surprisingly little value with Weapon Specialist builds because your first shot will have a guaranteed crit from 3 stacks from melee kills anyway. If you grab the talent node for automatically refilling ammo based on stacks when swapping then Crucian is really only giving you ok benefit if you constantly sit on 1 ammo in the clip, kill melee to activate melee specialist stacks, swap to ranged to auto reload 1 shot for 2 shots remaining, and fire two quick shots right after you swap. Even then max Crucian benefit is 6% per expended round so a max of 24% additional crit if you are on the very last round of your revolver when you fire. Surgical IV gives +10% crit chance for every 0.3 seconds aiming down sights so even 1 second of aiming will give you +30% crit chance and is already giving you more value than Crucian for crits. Crucian is only better if you spam the shots as fast as you can so Surgical doesn't even get the 1 second to build stacks and even then Crucian is only 6% on the second shot, 12% on third, 18% on fourth and 24% on your last shot

Like it's not a bad blessing but Surgical will almost always give you better crit chance

[coral willow]

thought the +33% crit chance worked on the base crit chance of the gun

not

actual 33%

then again revolvers get the bonus crit chance innate

[somber axle]

It's +33% crit chance per stack, so at 3 stacks (just 3 poxwalkers killed) you get +99% crit chance that when added to base crit chance of the weapon push it to a guaranteed crit

[last parcel]

it's actual 33%
easy to see with a flechette shotgun

[somber axle]

But only for that first shot

After that the weapon specialist crit chance is lost

You can get to pretty funny levels of crit on a revolver with Deadshot added into the mix though

[coral willow]

does it work with plasma cause i dont remember my plasma critting always after i decimate a poxwalker horde with my powersword and switching back to get the bonus

[somber axle]

Weapon Specialist, Surgical and Deadshot can make you guarantee every single shot fired is a crit with very little effort timing shots while aiming down sights

[somber axle]

Weapon Specialist crit does work with Plasma iirc but it doesn't work with Deadshot

[last parcel]

it's only the first shot

you still get the fire rate bonus for the 5 seconds

[coral willow]

yeah my first shot not critting

[somber axle]

Weapon Specialist makes Opening Salvo worthless

[coral willow]

cause if it did crit it wouldnt go numb on a flamer

idk

[somber axle]

And tbh Opening Salvo is already pretty low value even when making a high crit stacking build running down the left side of the tree

[last parcel]

omegalul pening salvo (talent)

[somber axle]

I'd almost always rather have Kill Zone instead and that's a tricky one to actually keep active in a very melee focused horde game

[agile forge]

Somebody on reddit calling me a troll for saying autopistol is shit

Love the reddit takes

[somber axle]

So like it is but it can still do funny things in Auric Damnation quickplay and even Maelstroms if you're a funny enough person to make it work

[agile forge]

He was trying to say that every levelling play should run that and an axe lol

[agile forge]

And that ogryn are shit because big

[last parcel]

ax without brutal mommentum

[somber axle]

I ran this in Aurics and it performed surprisingly well in my clown hands

And this was without Close Quarters Drill, Confirmed Kill or Close Quarters Kill Zone

[last parcel]

i should specify combat ax before the squeaking noises pounce me

[somber axle]

Which would all boost your survivability and damage

[agile forge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/flWBc4H8rF

[coral willow]

chaxe:

[agile forge]

If you're good enough you can force anything to work well tbh

[somber axle]

Gotta remember that the average Reddit player mains Malice/Heresy and on those difficulties it really, really doesn't matter what you run LOL

[coral willow]

ok so apprantly i just cant oneshot the flamer with a crit plasma

thats fun

[agile forge]

He linked this bizarre tier list for patch 13

Which had the autopistol in A

I feel like he's just seen that and taken it as fact

[somber axle]

I mean Autopistol used to be very strong from what others have said prior to Pinning Fire nerfs

[last parcel]

yeah maniac perk helps with crit bodyshot, but most people go for headshots

[coral willow]

they sometimes hard to hit

[last parcel]

yeah that's the tradeoff

[agile forge]

Patch 13 changed that though right

Or was it later

[wild wasp]

Hi guys need some advice on this very good revolver roll

It has
25 carapace
25 flak

Hand cannon 3
Trickshooter 4

I was gonna swap out Trickshooter 4 for Surgical 4, but whats better, swapping flak for maniac or keeping flak and swapping HC3 for HC4?

[urban steppe]

was shop update or not yet ?

[agile forge]

Carapace to Elites imo

Or to Maniacs

[rancid notch]

Anyone wanna share their Make Every Shot Count horror stories?
going through the wringer and trying to not completely tilt

[last parcel]

i saw someone try to do it with plasma and they commited sewer slide and had to restart twice

they did not seem very happy at the end

[grand perch]

dont shoot shields

...is what i learned much too late

[urban steppe]

get plasma and dont think about it

[somber axle]

I was very stubborn and wanted to earn it using a Kantrael Infantry Lasgun LOL

I ended up giving up on trying to earn it that way and instead rolled a low Ammo stat variant of the Lawbringer Shotgun with good stats in Damage and Stopping Power to do it instead. Manstopper/Scattershot memes to victory. It became WAY easier when I wasn't trying to do it in a weirdly more difficult way than it needed to be

I think it only took me 2 or 3 tries with that Lawbringer to get the penance

[dreamy lantern]

Boltgun is an east option for it

Just run it as a dmr

[rancid notch]

I just got it. 5th actual try
sweating my bollocks off though

[somber axle]

Kinda wish they'd put the mask + helmet variant of the penance gear in as a final unlock for doing every single penance in the game

It would be something more to work toward right now

[finite carbon]

Revolver gaming (every time I failed, I watched a clint Eastwood standoff clip for inspiration)

[rancid notch]

I was the same at first, I wanted to do it with a full Kreigsman build with a shovel and Helbore

[finite carbon]

22nd attempt was the one

Or 23rd

I forgot tbh

[somber axle]

Already got the chestpiece at 4500 so now it's just waiting for Boltpistol and Double Barrel Shotgun release

[dreamy lantern]

Has to be agri revolver for that tho, and you can only fire from braced

[finite carbon]

Please, no. No more

[somber axle]

Doing it with a true Imperial Guard loadout felt like a fun way to do it but wow does it become way harder to do that way

[rancid notch]

You already know lol

[dreamy lantern]

Yeehaw

[rancid notch]

for now, I have yeed my last haw.
the revolver goes back into storage

[somber axle]

Just 2 more days to new weapons HHHHHH

Too much is happening all at once this month

[rancid notch]

oh shit, yeah the updates this week huh

[finite carbon]

I wonder if they'll do weapon rebalancing

[last parcel]

i need a shockmaul vibrating back massager

HNNNNGGGG

[dreamy lantern]

Yi updoot tuesday

[finite carbon]

Just absolutely destroy a poor veteran's psword/plasma build

[dreamy lantern]

Lookin forward to it

[somber axle]

I wonder if they'll give us a neat commissar cosmetic for Thursday's store rotation to go with it

[last parcel]

i hope it comes with friendly fire so i can frag my commissar

sticky surprise

[dreamy lantern]

Honestly i just cant wait for the map to go live

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/ciaphas-cain-warhammer40k-gif-24974202

[dreamy lantern]

Just remember if ur ciaphas roleplaying he uses a laspistol

[old quail]

my one hope is that the end event doesn't end up like power matrix where you can get through it in like a minute and a half

[dreamy lantern]

I'm sayin noffin

[somber axle]

I have the neat black laspistol skin but I cannot be Ciaphas Cain because my Vet is a girl

[last parcel]

ciaphas cain after a warp storm

[somber axle]

I will instead be Rogue Trader Commissar

[old quail]

this is as close as i will ever get to having missions set in the mines

[last parcel]

wasn’t that a flamer though

[dreamy lantern]

Josho yearns for the mines

[somber axle]

Just replace flamepistol with boltpistol

[old quail]

the only labor suitable for children

as god intended

[somber axle]

Maybe one day we'll get a flamepistol (and it will be Zealot exclusive to my sorrow)

[last parcel]

that’s why i just coped and made zealot commissar

[somber axle]

40k could really use a non-RTS game centered around the Imperial Guard

Darktide is just the closest you can get to that right now

[last parcel]

rpg where you spend 3 hours on facial sculpting and backstory only to get blasted by artillery 15 minutes in

[midnight totem]

and wear a krieg gas mask to helmet to cover it all anyway

[midnight totem]

hrm, whats a female version of Ciaphas... Caroline? Carrie?

[somber axle]

I'm waiting for when someone goes Bethesda on the isometric RPGs. Fallout 1 and 2 are probably good but I've only ever played Fallout 3, New Vegas and 4 because I prefer third person/first person cameras for RPGs

Baldur's Gate 3 was so hard to get into because I don't like the RTS style camera and I needed friends to twist my arm to get me into Rogue Trader

They're both such good games but they'd be way more accessible if they weren't trying to show me the entire map at once and instead just let me play it like Dragon Age focused on one character's perspective at a time

Bird's eye view is overrated and it's not even highly rated

[last parcel]

sweeeet ci a phas
(cain cain cain)

[midnight totem]

why are you like thi xD

[somber axle]

Ciaphas Cait? LOL

[midnight totem]

xD

Caitlyn Cain

[somber axle]

I should rename my Vet to Ciaphas Cait if I can ever get a Commissar look similar to them

[last parcel]

and what about jurgen

[somber axle]

My fav name I've seen in quickplay lately has been HortonHearsAHeresy

[midnight totem]

Ferik Jurgen

[thick kestrel]

Severina Raine is the main female commissar character I can think of from the various books and novels? so if you want to run bolt pistol and powersword you're easily sorted there for a cosplay ^^

[midnight totem]

Felicia Jurgen?

[last parcel]

french fried jurgen

[thick kestrel]

for deep cut character references for Cain themed Veterans though, "Jinxie"/Penlan and Mari Magot would be excellent choices

[somber axle]

I should read about her. I'm still learning 40k lore. I only just recently learned about Saint Celestine

And I only looked up and read her wiki article because I saw her in a meme

[thick kestrel]

aye, iirc she's in a short story and the Honourbound book

much more serious story than the Cain novels as a heads up

[somber axle]

I haven't read any books yet

I have briefly looked at the black library and my brain went static seeing how many books there are

https://tenor.com/view/pomni-stare-the-amazing-digital-circus-huh-what-gif-14848454493863729355

[thick kestrel]

yeah ^^

best to focus in on a specific thread or story you want to follow

[somber axle]

I learn mostly through friends, memes and the 40k wiki

[thick kestrel]

in my case that's the Cain books right now

[last parcel]

read the entirety of the horus heresy in one week

[somber axle]

If I wasn't working I would do that easily

Maybe if I marry someone rich they'll let me just hide in a room on a computer and collect books

I can be a trophy clown

[last parcel]

slap em with a cream pie whenever they get home

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-pie-face-cake-butter-cream-gif-27138118

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/bam-margera-high-five-prank-smack-gif-11137572

Gotta give them the best welcome home only a clown can give

The best/worst part of that gif is that you can see his burrito/sandwich or whatever was wrapped in tinfoil got slapped out of his hand and into the trash can to his left

[thick kestrel]

which are fun! though it is a bit of peaks and toughs.

the Cain books are very entertaining but there are moments where they get a bit Crass with Cain describing women he meets. the idea is that he IS that crass... but it always comes across a bit eh. kind of in the same way the dresden files books can get blegh.

which can be mildly jarring because Sandy Mitchell does an excellent job of talking about all the female members of the guard regiment much more positively than whoever Cain happens to think is pretty.

which is to say, broadly, they're very fun books and, while not perfect, are FAR from the worst things printed under a 40k label for fiction. would recommend for the blackadder in space vibes.

though in fairness... the bar for worst book printed for 40k is...

gods it's a low bar...

[midnight totem]

Amberly's notes on some of his past liaisons are pretty funny

[thick kestrel]

Amberly's combination of unknowable inquisitor and devious gremlin are by far some of the best parts ^^

[midnight totem]

Cain being like: I never seen anybody eat so many pies so quickly

Amberly in footnotes: I was hungry. Also purging heresy takes a lot of calories

[thick kestrel]

and by far one of the better inquisitor characters in 40k fiction as a whole as well. particularly one of the more human ones who doesn't fall into the trap of exterminate all the things, something she regularly criticises her peers for ^^

I mean.. it's still VERY bad if she's turned up. but at least you've got a chance 😛

[midnight totem]

I imagine there are all sorts of Inquisitors in wh40k

its just the ones who exterminate everything are more... noticeable

[thick kestrel]

oh certainly, but much like most things they've been memed as much as anything else ^^

[midnight totem]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-exterminatus-inquisitor-headsmash-gif-20422853

[thick kestrel]

but yeah, I wouldn't say the Cain books are "Great" books... but they are fun in a silly pulp kind of way and are quintessentially 40k for their mix of absurd comedy and action.

kind of like the Gotrek and Felix books, they're not great... but they're very fun ^^

[midnight totem]

quintessentially Warhammer

[thick kestrel]

mhmm

[midnight totem]

Grimdark can't survive without the lighter stuff to contrast it

[thick kestrel]

yee, it only really works when you lean into the comedic absurdity of it all. without the humour at how stupid it all is it just becomes bleak and depressing.

which, lets be honest, is a trap 40k constantly falls into

[midnight totem]

bricked another headhunter 3

alas

[thick kestrel]

actually one of the parts I quite like about Darktide and it's writing, there's a good element of humour and nonsense mixed into the whole affair which helps keep it entertaining.

the endless stories of Morrow being rumoured to have fought in every single war in the imperium's history and him getting endlessly annoyed with having to deal with the bureaucracy.

Hallowette running rings around Zola and Hadron as she steals/smuggled anything and everything only to be caught out by Melk of all people.

Masozi's running battle with Hadron over maintaining the Valkyries and casually commenting on how things are getting worse for your team as she circles above.

and poor poor Krall... a mere legitimate businessman being pulled into unfortunate circumstances.

unsure what to expect of ||Swagger ||when we meet them mind...

[midnight totem]

Yes. legitimate businessman

[thick kestrel]

entirely legitimate, so legitimate that if you look too closely it might suggest impropriety! it's THAT legitimate

[midnight totem]

The writing for the dialogue between the rejects is great too

I love their banter

even if its not as personal as the stuff between the vermintide crew

it just feels organic anyway

[thick kestrel]

mhmm, it can get a bit loopy at times... but the more that gets added as the game goes on the less of an issue that slowly becomes.

[coral willow]

the light shining in the darkness

[thick kestrel]

and there's always the rare convos you rarely get to hear in specific combinations of characters...

getting all three ogryn voicepacks together has some profoundly entertaining little exchanges ^^

the various Veterans also tend to have a ton of fun banter when you mix together the different archetypes.

M-professional and F-loose cannon have a particularly fun conversation regarding commissar's which pops up occaisonally.

[midnight totem]

the vets have it pretty good

no more commissar oversight

[thick kestrel]

for the loose cannons certainly, they definitely come across as those soldiers who go out of their way to avoid getting promoted at all costs but are actually VERY good at their jobs...

the Inquisitorial warband suits them perfectly.

[midnight totem]

the female loose cannon getting outplayed by Hallowette in cards

complaining about it "I'm the cardsharp around here!"

[thick kestrel]

aye, I think I've mentioned it before but it seems like F-loose cannon, Hallowette and Masozi are all involved in half of the illicit nonsense going on the ship.

[winter grove]

Wasn't it the pilot

[rancid notch]

probably both tbf

[winter grove]

Probably both fr

[midnight totem]

lol

[rancid notch]

I love my LC Veteran, but he is such a blundering mess at the best of times lmao

[winter grove]

Loose Cannons for life

[uncut pebble]

My favorite banter is the serious zealout (I don't know personality names) being angry that melk mocked their high gothic.

[thick kestrel]

heheh aye, there's an implication that the various zealots are talking utter nonsense whenever they talk in high gothic ^^

or think they are

[uncut pebble]

Actually I take that back, my favorite one is the same zealout personality offering to help ogryns understand their scriptures.

But that's less for comedy and more for their genuine benevolent attitude towards ogryns.

[thick kestrel]

aye, some of the best dialogue tends to be the various characters just getting on with eachother, particularly the Ogryns.

that's shifted a little bit recently with the lore point of the murder on the ship making everyone kind of distrustful again

(for context, some of the on ship chatter notes that the ship's Bo'sun was killed onboard the mourning star. in the general progressing story it's a recent development)

[radiant chasm]

Judge and agitator are nicer to the ogryns

Half bummed my fanatic straight up called ogryns soulless to the face but it does fit the setting

[thick kestrel]

aye, the preachers/fanatics are very much implied to be properly dogmatic in the cult of the emperor (with F-Preacher having... some interesting warcries implying other influences).

they're not the brightest sparks despite their affable scottishness ^^

[radiant chasm]

yea, agitator tries to act all high class but deep down they're a softy, judge is also pretty level headed, fanatic is a biblehumper through and through

[agile forge]

Fanatic is fun as hell though

[somber axle]

I discovered F-Professional has some flirty lines with M-Judge

But no one ever hears them because no one plays F-Professional LOL

[next slate]

i always felt the fanatics were the more personable preachers since while they do harp on about the god emperor to no end, they are quite sharp in their wits and banter

[thick kestrel]

oh aye, they're friendly but they're also full on fundementalists for the Imperial Cult.

jaha! finally managed to wrangle an upgrade for my CViag ^^

admittedly a little torn on deathspitter... I normally run with Raking Fire but I've got the room to experiment on this one as it's not the locked blessing.

[radiant chasm]

my gf plays f-pro and it's the only time i hear the voice lol

it's not even bad it's just so aggressively mid and GI jane, doesn't have a lot of the loose moments like male pro does

[thick kestrel]

mhmm, it's kind of like the Male Cadian voice it's just not as engaging as the other options.

[radiant chasm]

ehh, male cadian got that cadian ego and anger issues, i think fem ct is just a better twist on it

[thick kestrel]

mhmm

[radiant chasm]

she's a lot more, cold hatred/seething

[thick kestrel]

aye, there's a sharpness to it

[radiant chasm]

i think i described it as before, male cadian will kill you, fem cadian will make you wish she killed you

[thick kestrel]

the male version just comes across... a little too edgy?

it's hard to quite articulate but it lands a bit flatter

[uncut pebble]

I don't like either cadian personality.

They are very rude and sharp personalities that don't fit well with the rest of the personalities across the game.

I can understand taking your job seriously but cadians exude an aura of salt that is just annoying to be around.

[radiant chasm]

it's cause their planet exploded before their ego did

[uncut pebble]

I mean they act like literally everybody is out to get them.

[radiant chasm]

i think both fit, but also the reactions some of the others have as well

[uncut pebble]

Like no, sir, I don't think cadia is really gone because their people still live. You don't have to yell that at me every 2 seconds.

[radiant chasm]

cadians were massively elitist and egotistical for a guard regiment, very similar branding to how the moebian 6th act (you'd never last a day in the 6th etc etc)

[somber axle]

I tried swapping personalities for a few matches to see Cutthroat and Professional. They were both kinda boring compared to Loose Cannon. Even the lines teasing the Judge didn't really push it into entertaining. Plus Professional is a bit mean to Ogryn. "You. Get. Up! Now!!" vs Loose Cannon with the friendly "Thought I'd leave ya?" and "The guard never leaves anyone behind." Loose Cannon might be a sarcastic sort who likes messing with people but she still seems like she'd be the most likely to fight through Atoma's worst just to make sure a squadmate makes it back to the Mourningstar for another game of cards

[uncut pebble]

Idk, I just feel like at some point my psyker or ogryn would kill them with a very large rock instead of listening to them scream for another second. My zealout would probably just tell them to shut the fuck up.

They're just annoying personalities, case and point.

[radiant chasm]

some regiments view cadians as an example of an elite regiment that protected one of the most dangerous parts of the galaxy, others view them as crybabies who don't realize countless regiments have lost their planets

zealots are all kinda suck up to cadians, mainly cause the anti abaddon propaganda and martyrdom beliefs

[thick kestrel]

aye, the female loose cannon is by far the best veteran voice pack.

for Ogryn... I really can't get past how charmingly fun the Brawler is. he's a gentle soul who's just happy to be there and get some Rashions :>

[uncut pebble]

I can understand them being regarded as the best of the best and that getting to their heads, but that still doesn't justify them being assholes to the people they have to rub elbows with.

[uncut pebble]

Nah, loose cannons are better. Hearing, "Something... something... SNIPER," won't get old.

Oh I misread, my b.

I read that as professional.

I am illiterate and the commissar has scheduled my execution for 2pm tomorrow, sharp.

[thick kestrel]

for psyker... honestly most to all of them have their moments... I do like how you've got two of them as Atoman natives (the enforcers). they actually do a lot to add texture and little lore drops.

[somber axle]

Even funnier that both the male and female Loose Cannon yell "Sticky surprise!" when throwing a Krak grenade but only the female Loose Cannon has a short pause, a disgusted groan and a quiet "Ugh, that sounds bad..." right after

[uncut pebble]

Female enforcer is the best one.

I will not elaborate or argue.

[thick kestrel]

the seers (my beloved!) have a whole pile of delightfully fun lines and dialogue, as well as all kinds of scary implications on WHO the beloved is by context

[radiant chasm]

fem savant 🤓 ing out about atoma is the best

[thick kestrel]

and the two loners are the poor straight man and women in the whole affair who, quite rightly, are really pissed off about the whole situation.

they moan and complain a lot but they're not WRONG and get enough banter to make it fun rather than irksome ^^

[radiant chasm]

loners are fueled by spite

they hate the heretics more than the imperium LOL

[thick kestrel]

aye ^^

[radiant chasm]

inb4 (well god emperor light protect them from chaos) fabius proved that aggressive atheism/agnostic beliefs can also counter chaos

he denied slaanesh, tho it nearly killed him from the strain

[thick kestrel]

though on the whole, I particularly like how they've branched out with the voicework for the psykers. the savants/enforcers having french-african accents (particularly for M) is very welcome.

[somber axle]

My fav lines in the whole game are from a Psyker personality

[thick kestrel]

ha! yeah M-loner arguing with the subtitles is just glorious ^^

I was a little sad that F-Loner doesn't seem to have the same little breaks in the 4th wall

[thin stone]

Hello Fello Svets

Sweaty Veterans

[woven oak]

Male has that, too. I heard it on male before female.

[somber axle]

Does he also do the groan and the "that sounds bad" line? Because I've heard male Loose Cannon before and I only remember them saying "Sticky surprise!" but nothing else

[woven oak]

Yes, I was referring to that part

[somber axle]

I'll have to watch the subtitles more closely next time. Maybe the last time I heard it he was interrupted by getting barreled or something

[thick kestrel]

aye, it's a rarer voiceline. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets interupted/cancelled by another line

kind of how a tag or a shout will interupt a convo

[thin stone]

I have achieved peak veteran build

[agile forge]

I don't think he's arguing with the subtitles so much as using the subtitles to argue

Or maybe there's a subtle difference in how he says foreshortened vs four shortened

[thick kestrel]

well the joke is the context, foreshorten is dramatically reducing something.

four shortened is clearly referring to the squad, four shortened life spans being us. so rage, fear and foreshortened lifespans would refer to the enemy.

four shortened is us and the subtitles giving us the former rather than the latter changes the context a TON ^^

more so in that the subtitles don't include the after-rant

eh I didn't explain that as well as I could

but yeah, I think arguing with the subtitles is the implication considering the differing contexts and the lack of the subtitles including the additional rant

(which is a shame because I do think the subtitles should provide all the silly dialogue, mostly from an accessability sense. everyone deserves to enjoy the banter)

[agile forge]

The subtitles say foreshortened first I thought

[thick kestrel]

they do

[agile forge]

I think this is a Mandela effect

[thick kestrel]

negh, not so sure on that but fair enough.

[junior needle]

What's the deal with the vox intercept

It's clearly teasing new weapons and then the channel is saying "na it's just a plasma"

Whether it is or it isn't, that's a very silly thing to do

[thick kestrel]

the description from the vox-intercept kind of implies a rad-weapon? the tablets would quite reasonably be potassium iodide tablets which protect your thyroid from radiation by helping block it being absorbed.

admech use all kinds of rad-weapons for the Skittari legions, radium carbines are the common one you see on tabletop and killteam.

these delightful things

they're very much in that category of "Weaponised War-crimes" in the imperium's arsenal

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw it

For some reason people were thinking melta

[thick kestrel]

Possible, but I think the radiation context skews it. Meltas don't tend to have that radiation connection (though that's... arguable being Fusion guns)

But 40k only talks about radiation for the admech's radium guns most of the time.

[covert timber]

Yeah I said the same thing but everyone else is like “no it’s the new plasma gun”

[thick kestrel]

Aye, I would hope its a radium gun. Some cool design space there as they're meant to leave damaging ionised gas on impact. Maybe a DOT weapon leaving damaging effects for a few moments or a pseudo-bleed.

[flat crypt]

At least in YouTube comments FS says the squad in vox transmission is using good ol plasma guns, nothing new

[thick kestrel]

Ah, shame

We can but hope

[flat crypt]

My guess is that the environment is irradiated thoroughly 🤷

[vocal cipher]

to be fair, the mechanicus probably wouldn't just give out rad-weapons, even to the inquisition

[covert timber]

But they said they were feeling sick while using the weapons hadron gave them

[thick kestrel]

Mhmm, that's mainly what made me think of radium guns.

[covert timber]

That’s what I’m saying

[tall torrent]

they never mentioned a new variant of plasma tho

[radiant chasm]

yea there is no newly released variants of existing weapons planned, just the new weapons coming will have their variants

[radiant chasm]

and the forums, and this discord, they really moving to damage control on this oopsie

[agile forge]

Might be some nurgle corruption

[orchid hemlock]

What oopsie?

[covert timber]

That’s what I’m saying

[tall torrent]

yea, it's the current plasma gun lol

it sounds like rad weapons but it's just plasma

and not even a new variant of plasma

[radiant chasm]

it's just current plasma and their is mass confusion and some people overhyping this update

[orchid hemlock]

So it's just a skin for the plasma?

[uncut pebble]

I doubt it's a radium gun.

If anything it could be volkite.

Would be super cool to have a volkite pistol or something to that effect.

[agile forge]

What is volkite? In terms of behaviour and lore

[radiant chasm]

no

it's just a flavor vox for the existing plasma

[junior needle]

"Give out" implies it's a measure of generosity. There's already an admech detachment on the ship with Hadron, so clearly there's some self interest at work.

Also the fact that these would have been found by chance and used accordingly

Of course Hadron could just be there of her own volition for reasons.

[junior needle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volkite_Weapon

Martian thermal ray gun

[thick kestrel]

interestingly not originally just a mechanicus only toy!

Volkite weapons used to be a mainline tool for a lot of the great crusade, generally being more effective and reliable than boltguns. the problem was they were difficult to produce and maintain so got phased out in favour of bolt weapons which were, comparatively, much simpler to produce and supply.

[junior needle]

Mhm, I was wondering what the real difference between volkites and lasguns were and it seems a bit vague

[thick kestrel]

yeah... volkite weapons are... more thermal? it's vague as to how or why but they tend to do weird stuff on contact...

a las gun applies a burst of heat and kinetic energy to the target when their bolts hit, kind of like a bolt of plasma or energy.

volkite weapons do... kind of janky thermodynamic stuff where they transfer energy and heat "into" the target and progressively burn through and ignite what they hit?

so where a las weapon fires a blast of energy, a volkite beam transfers energy continuously on impact and burns away progressive layers of material...

the distinction is honestly kind of "trust us" in the grand scheme of things ^^

but yeah, think kind of microwave/infrared lasers as opposed to coherent light lasers

it's nonsense, but that's also 40k ^^

Meltas on the other hand are Fusion guns, they also use heat but it's a more direct "we're fusing atoms to generate a beam of hot melty death"

[uncut pebble]

The way I understand volkite is the bastard child of plasma and lasers.

[junior needle]

Thing is, lasers are thermal too. They don't have any hit mass, any explosion caused would be due to a reaction to the heat of the beam.

[uncut pebble]

Volume of power.

Lasguns are considered flashlights... volkite could be considered floodlights.

[thick kestrel]

yeah... 40k and exactly "what" las weapons are considering they have recoil in most media and cases is... yeah ^^

but yeah, las weapons theoretically cause a small explosion on impact which is how they impart their energy on the target.

Volkite weapons more directly heat up the target and "cook" through them if that helps at all with the distinction.

it's... not how anything actually works properly but it's how it works in 40k ^^

[tawny badger]

tbf there are real world weapons that do that

kinda like a microwave gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

specifically the active denial system listed in that article

[junior needle]

I assume the lasgun recoil is a concession for media effect, or just people not knowing how lasers work

That's apparently how it was in darktide

[thick kestrel]

partly aye, but it's been a general warhammer thing for a bit

las weapons also have recoil in Dawn of War for example, it's just an easy shorthand for viewers.

you expect recoil from a gun, so it's easier to provide the visual as a quick storytelling shorthand even if it's not correct.

kind of like what we think of as "Viking" music in a lot of modern media. we expect beating drums, Taglharpa and throat singing for Vikings... but none of those things are...really viking? they fit the vibe we expect but not the actual historical context or reality. (Taglharpa are more estonian and we don't really have any evidence for their presence in wider scandinavia [actually further clarification... we don't have evidence for their wider presence during the viking period])

same for Scottish stuff, we always get bagpipes/kilts/claymores for scottish wars of independence films/media but bagpipes and tartan are both 16th century things and what we think of as claymores... kind of aren't?

it becomes discordant to actually provide the more realistic portrayals because we, as the audience, expect certain things even if they're wrong... and media is first and foremost meant to entertain before it teaches.

we expect recoil from guns, so lasguns have recoil

[uncut pebble]

Lasguns have recoil because they operate as a gas system, last I checked.

The fissle and smoke that leaves the magwell when you reload isn't for show.

[thick kestrel]

honestly it's a whole massive deep dive into audience expectation in media shaping interpretation which is fascinating to go down and how it both augments and limits storytelling :>

[junior needle]

Canonically them having recoil is dubious at best

Lasguns also only need battery packs to function

Which are fully rechargeable just with energy sources

So I'm inclined to think them being gas lasers is misinfo

[wanton dawn]

Lasgun having recoil means it isnt light cuz einstein and stuff

Or reject are faking the recoil. Like toodler with gunstick

[thick kestrel]

dark age something something STC template :>

[wanton dawn]

"My lasgun has recoil cuz it shoot heavier laser". E≠mc²

[flint lake]

It’s reaching but maybe the recoil is from the blast back of the laser super heating the air?

[agile forge]

The machine spirit is kicking you in the shoulder

Just to remind you who the boss is

[junior needle]

Absolutely gigantic lasers in real life don't even have this issue

So I doubt it

[uncut pebble]

All I'm saying is, having enough energy in a single magazine to fire roughly 150 times using only energy is a bit of a reach.

There's gotta be something else at play so I choose to believe that it's a gas system, the same way laser weapons work in star wars.

[junior needle]

It's space materials, also the amount of shots vary on the power setting

[uncut pebble]

I'm talking standard issue settings.

[wanton dawn]

In real life laser can pop balloon, damage eye and (check note) burn paper

[junior needle]

In one of the books featuring krieg lasguns, you only get like 20 shots

[uncut pebble]

Well considering they probably use their shovels more than their guns, I'd believe it.

[tawny badger]

They can also cut through materials like wood, plastics and metal with sufficient power and concentration

[wanton dawn]

I can cut metal with enough fare stretching

[junior needle]

Memes aren't a substitute for canon

But yes the lasguns do operate on an energy only system, which is part of the appeal of the lasgun

They require very little in terms of logistics

Or literally nothing as long as your weapon isnt breaking

You can charge them with sunlight

[wanton dawn]

They do require red meth crystal

[junior needle]

You do need the focusing crystals or whatever they're called

[uncut pebble]

Man, now I want a hotshot lasgun.

And a longlas.

[junior needle]

But that's an issue for manufacturing

[uncut pebble]

We just need more laser weapons to go with shock trooper, really.

[wanton dawn]

Stop trying to get longlas. It aint gonna happen

[frank basin]

tune that shit up make people body organ explode

[uncut pebble]

Shut.

I need it.

[terse idol]

TO BE FAIR

[tawny badger]

that would just be the hellbore but somehow even worse to handle

[terse idol]

I mean yeah, for digging trenches for defensive positions

Not for suicide charging

Krieg loves

[frank basin]

shovel was krieg meme

[terse idol]

A long long long long drawn our defensive fight where they can dig in and shell and entrenched enemy for a few years

[uncut pebble]

No charge up time and lack of a bayonet, would be a decent sidegrade.

[wanton dawn]

Thats like a mg12

[uncut pebble]

Jokes aside for kriegers, though, they probably use their bayonets more than anything in terms of actual infantry fighting.

[terse idol]

Well, when enemies enter cqb yeah

[tawny badger]

and sights that aren’t dogshit

[terse idol]

The krieg memes make me fume

I meaann

It's military grade

[uncut pebble]

If it came down to having to duel a commissar with a power sword or a krieger with a bayonet, I think I would genuinely have better chances against the commissar.

[terse idol]

So, their sights are iron sighss

They're not giving every standard kriegsmen infantry a good helbore

They're giving them the standard issue

[uncut pebble]

The fight against the commissar is decided in one sword stroke, but the krieger would make me wish I was dead.

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, i'd lose

[tawny badger]

Just press spacebar

[wanton dawn]

Instruction unclear, jumped into sniper shot

[frank basin]

just bring heavy bolter against the krieg

[tawny badger]

crusher overhead