veteran-class

[faint beacon]

Eh? It’s either that

Or Toughness Damage Reduction?

Should be like a decent chunk on it

[hearty panther]

keep in mind that gold toughness means the +# is irrelevant. More is obviously better but even a single point of gold toughness allows for loads of shenanigans

[iron marten]

surviving crusher overhead

tanking poxburster explosion...

[faint beacon]

Literally

Hence what I suggested so you still get obliterated

[terse idol]

I thought at the very least a lower amount meant you can't just tank a pox burster for free

[hearty panther]

so vet gives it to you for 15s on a 30s cooldown and also gets a 9m wide ultra-stagger that works on EVERYTHING

[tall torrent]

Not exactly

[terse idol]

Add in more talent tax for VOC

[tall torrent]

TDR can stack enough to completely bypass Poxburster dmg

[terse idol]

Add in a node that gives it bigger stagger

[faint beacon]

That so?

[terse idol]

From a smaller value

[hearty panther]

zealot gives it for 10s on a 60s cooldown and has to channel the rest for pulses of significantly less stagger lol

its a joke really

[tall torrent]

Yea if u have enough toughness & high TDR u can just not take dmg from burster

It’s more like

Gold toughness suddenly makes glass cannon indestructible

[terse idol]

Tbh chorus is more balanced yeah

[tall torrent]

If it’s switched to TDR Psyker instantly drops survivability

[faint beacon]

Higher CD

[tall torrent]

Which can be a good thing

[faint beacon]

Honestly In general VOC needs a Higher CD

[tall torrent]

I think most issues with gold toughness from VoC is the fact that it not only allows u to play much riskier than normal, it also allows any glass cannon on ur team to play super risky with no real penalty

If it’s changed to TDR it wouldn’t impact veteran as much but it’ll be drastically different for ur teammates

[hearty panther]

at least smyker has to look like a dumbass

[faint beacon]

Ogryn would benefit from it more wouldn’t he

I know Vet is a yes

Zealot unsure

[tall torrent]

Not much because Ogryn already gets like innate ~50% TDR

[faint beacon]

Psyker actually will be effected

[tall torrent]

Biggest impact would be psyker

[hearty panther]

some psykers anyway

[tall torrent]

Most psykers

[hearty panther]

i spy player trees now and then and holy shit Psykers are mad sleeping on One With the Warp for some reason

[faint beacon]

Honesty I want to see more reason to use Revive shout as well

[tall torrent]

It’s alright but it’s not enough most of the time imo

I like the ranged immunity on crit one better

[faint beacon]

It’s so damn good on Gunker as well my god, Pop SG

And just not die

[hearty panther]

its flat 10% TDR for clicking on it

why would you not

[tall torrent]

But I also play crit aura so I don’t rly get a choice

[hearty panther]

unless you run warp charges 🤢

[faint beacon]

Stinky!

[tall torrent]

Because 10% TDR on its own isn’t the biggest difference

[hearty panther]

thats just baseline

youre probably earning 20%+ when it matters

[tall torrent]

70 toughness dmg being cut to 63 doesn’t change that you’re gonna take a ton of Dmg because psyker doesn’t have much toughness

20%+ still doesn’t matter enough for when u do get hit simply because psyker doesn’t have that much toughness

[tall torrent]

That’s >50% toughness on most psyker builds in 1 hit

[hearty panther]

im not following the logic train tbh, tdr is a toughness side grade. You'd have more effective toughness with more TDR and Psyker has five flat 5%s and OWtW

its plenty

youre no ogryn but thats more than most zealots

[tall torrent]

You have more effective toughness yes, but melee bleedthrough is still calculated in relation to total toughness

You get ~110 toughness on psyker with most builds

[hearty panther]

triple toughness gang

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t matter how high the peril %TDR goes to, your toughness still gets depleted in like 3 melee hits

[hearty panther]

i feel like you've talked yourself out of a free deal tbh

[tall torrent]

It’s just not as impactful as I’d have hoped, is what I’m saying

[hearty panther]

i put it right below psykinetics aura

perhaps below perilous combustion

but about there

[tall torrent]

So I just went psykinetic’s aura -> crit aura -> ranged atk immunity on crit

17.5% baseline crit chance goes hard

[hearty panther]

shes so spoiled

[hidden torrent]

She's actually in severe pain from the lack of itemization update

[umbral cloud]

Anyone else find that the CIAG they get from the store is always around 310-330 whereas other weapons are usually higher than that?

[radiant chasm]

welcome to true rng

[serene bough]

current itemization makes you feel like you're living in the 41st millenium, its a roleplay choice

[slow spade]

Just don't be unlucky lmao

If I was in 40k, I'd be a named char in a novel. No doubt

[tawny badger]

If I was in 40k, I'd kill myself

[midnight totem]

If I was in 40k

Yeah I'd probably kill myself

I know too much

[frozen jolt]

whats yalls preferred vet build?

[midnight totem]

Stealth melee vet

[unique orchid]

anything but stealth melee vet

recently ive been playing Exe stance, kraks, MK3 knife and a mg 1a lasgun deadshot build

[terse idol]

Infantry lasgun, exe mf build

[unique orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[midnight totem]

You guys shooty shooty and I'll do the stabby stabby

That's called teamwork

[unique orchid]

go play zealot if you wanna stabby stabby

[terse idol]

Oh chiilll cubic

We all valid in the eyes of the imperium

[unique orchid]

very well, very well

[midnight totem]

Shesh. A vet can't get a good honest shanking in without being confused for a fanatic

[unique orchid]

more a question of why you arent using the gun on john shootman

[terse idol]

Because weapon spec is good

[mental cloud]

That’s my current favorite

[unique orchid]

weapon spec is pretty decent aye

[mental cloud]

Yeah I’m working on the penance and rolled a s-tier catachan combat blade that and the columnus go hard.

Buts mostly my favorite of all time is la/mg iv( is the right? The fast one lol) and the focus target.

[midnight totem]

More satisfying to use a blade

[mental cloud]

Dude that speed is unmatched

Especially with the mele speed node

[gilded rock]

Taking half a second to crank one ranged kill and swap back to melee for that insane buff is so fun

[mental cloud]

Yup

[gilded rock]

The toughness replenishment node on weapon specialist is pretty nice against ranged as well

[gaunt sail]

y'all staminamaxxing?

[serene bough]

no

but i do take 2 stam curios

[snow cypress]

I'm playing some auric maelstorm with stealth knife vet and I suck

I do low damage idk why

Maybe i'm not hitting weakpoints,but i would say i do

[agile forge]

Zealot gets sillier damage spikes from it iirc

Are you using the mark 6 with push attacks? Tbh idk veteran knife builds

[snow cypress]

yeah is the main attackk i use

and punch attack

[serene bough]

do u have uncanny strikes

[unique orchid]

uncanny strike and mercy killer are both very good on a knife if you have serrated blade

also does your knife have low damage, first target, or finesse?

[tall torrent]

Do u have uncanny strike

[tall torrent]

Vet knife has ~2x dmg as zealot knife

[snow cypress]

yeah

I have uncanny + mercy

[agile forge]

Zealot gets a shitton from the shroud stab but idk after that

[serene bough]

then you should be rocking damage as loong as you hit weakspots

[tall torrent]

Are u using serrated blade and hitting weak spots?

[tall torrent]

Besides shroudfield, it’s not nearly as consistently high dmg as veteran

Veteran hits for 1300+ per weakspot on crusher non-crit

[agile forge]

What gives the extra damage for veteran?

[tall torrent]

Zealot hits for like 850 on crit weakspot

[serene bough]

these usernames are getting out of hand

[tall torrent]

+weakspot dmg, +melee finesse, +elite dmg, +melee dmg, +ogryn/monster dmg, focus target

[unique orchid]

with mercy killer, serrated blade also adds weakspot damage

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/984525651904176209/1243454115519004722/CB6_3402dps.mp4?ex=66771b23&is=6675c9a3&hm=4c2d8f58555eb2f8b4d308e04f72a6939cc57c18907f573eae7e784053b51998&

Zealot’s knife dmg is not nearly as good as this

[snow cypress]

man ik

And in meat stuff i don't remmeber the name i can do it

Maybe i was just missing weakpoints

Or maybe is stammina

the problem

[crimson pebble]

Must be a distant relative of the ogryn i saw named baby mangler once

[snow cypress]

Once i had a partner called Adeptus-Adepositas(It was an ogryn)

[tall torrent]

U need weakspot hits on general, but it’s especially important for knife

[snow cypress]

ik...

[tawny badger]

can that ogryn even pronounce his own name

[snow cypress]

probably not

[midnight totem]

Ade Adi

[manic moon]

Zealot also has finesse and dmg bonuses for knife just hard to emulate since a lot of that tied to dodge and positioning. . And zealot still wins in speed and survival paired with it and has synergy with the bleed parts too

[somber axle]

Vet can hit a pretty easy 3HKO on Crushers with a good knife and very little talent investment. But if you play with Vet's funny damage you can get it to a 2HKO and wipe out an entire Crusher pack at lightning speed. And if you want to pretend to be a Zealot you can use Infiltrate + Surprise Attack for a very easy to hit 1HKO

On my Mk VId Recon build I can still push my knife to 2HKO Crushers without dedicating too many talent points into melee

Aside from Shroudfield giving Zealots 1HKO on Crushers idk their speed/number of strikes to kill on beefier targets

That's melee Vet vs Zealot though. If you play ranged Vet you will kill targets before the Zealot gets a chance to close the distance

[hearty panther]

just bolbgun

[terse idol]

Survival? We got Infiltrate

😌

[coral willow]

i should get a good knife

i only have FT

(inb4 lacerate haters swarm my location, not that i need lacerate here anyways i want precog)

[tall torrent]

Atk speed yes, per-hit dmg no

[coral willow]

well unless you go marty

even theb it seems dubious

[tall torrent]

Martyr knife

[last parcel]

now i want to run that

[coral willow]

some guy is trying to promote one over here

it works i guess

🤡

as in true korean fashion, lacerate

[tall torrent]

You guys need to start thinking about breakpoints, simply put

[coral willow]

nobody cares about bp when brunt swings ariund crazy i think. least here that is

[tall torrent]

U don’t need perfect rolls for getting breakpoints, that’s just bad excuse

[coral willow]

its called nobody testing shit and just slaps on flak and maniac

[tall torrent]

Hence why u should start building for breakpoints

[coral willow]

i tried using the

plasma build you sent

its nice

but cant seem to hit my shot at times

[tall torrent]

The one without atk speed?

[coral willow]

ye

[tall torrent]

if u can't guarantee headshot, go for bodyshot

bodyshot kills slower (no 1 tap without crit) but still staggers enemy, and it's better to land a quick bodyshot than to miss a headshot

[somber axle]

A Knife with 75%+ in Damage, Finesse, First Target and Penetration with Uncanny, Mercy Killer or Executor, and Carapace perk feels amazing for carving through Crusher packs. Desperado on its own pushes a good knife into 3HKO territory with the right blessings

[coral willow]

blaze away it is

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-legs-leg-mannequin-robot-gif-7822374

[crimson pebble]

Blaze away gets hots is the gamer plasma build

[tall torrent]

swap crit chance to elite or +2 stam

[last parcel]

pft, everyone knows volatile shattering impact is better

[crimson pebble]

[somber axle]

Yeah that's almost perfect for it. Unfortunately the Flesh Tearer blessing isn't going to help Crusher killing breakpoints but you should still be able to comfortably hit the 3HKO Crusher breakpoint even without Executor or Mercy Killer if you invest more talent points into juicing your knife damage

Elite would be a solid choice to change the crit chance. Help hit the 3HKO or 2HKO Crusher breakpoint easier

I prefer Executor over Mercy Killer because having a knife that requires Serrated Blade feels too limiting for general use

Plus Executor helps on wave clear afaik

[coral willow]

finesse low

[somber axle]

If I'm making an Exe Stance talent set up it's expensive to spend 3 talent points cutting across to reach Serrated Blade

Could go Kraks or Smoke but then I'm spending extra talent points to swap back left side

So talent expensive

[tall torrent]

U need 3+ blaze stacks for it to matter if that’s what ur thinking

Which doesn’t happen outside of magdump situations, and you’re probably not magdumping specialists

Most plasma magdump is boss (not efficient) and elite wave

[last parcel]

serrated > iron will

[crimson pebble]

Odd choices

[somber axle]

My fav part is team highlight and highlight all ranged enemies

Truly the funniest way to mess with quickplay squads

[last parcel]

bayonetting highlighted enemies is funny

[somber axle]

As soon as a pack of hounds spawn in hunting grounds pop Exe Stance and flashbang your squad by showing the entire row of scab shooters blocking their sight to the dogs

[last parcel]

doesn't the team highlight only show specialists/elites even if you take counterfire

[hearty panther]

wot should i play

and yes thats correct

[last parcel]

factorio

[snow cypress]

I found some time ago a oggryn called like this

People like this should not disappear

[coral willow]

this is probably like the cursed shit ive ever seen

[somber axle]

It used to show all highlighted enemies to the entire squad but if it was changed idk when it happened or if it ever did

Afaik it still does

[bitter turtle]

you dont actually need high penetration

i tested and uncanny basically makes it meaningless

it only matters that you have liek 60 + so you can 4 tap a crusher from 0 uncanny

that and only 17 mobility required makes it a lot easier to roll knife

[coral willow]

mobility 80 knife is a expereince so

[stoic mantle]

The moment I start working on this marksman's focus penance all I get is assail spamming psykers

Im gonna stuff a krak grenade in my mouth and pull the pin

[last parcel]

and then you end up not dying because you didn't take a +20% dmg talent

[shadow dagger]

shame the penance counts literally anything pingable

youll get it done in like 4-6 games

[somber axle]

Depends on Uncanny stacks right? So if you have low Pen stat and you're starting at 0 Executor/0 Uncanny stacks the first hit may end up doing damage low enough to push it into 4HKO territory with only Desperado alone yeah? But if you have 3+ Uncanny stacks active Penetration stat doesn't matter

Consistent 3HKO is very important imo and if you're already edging the 4HKO range then you will need a lot more talent juice to push it into 2HKO territory and to even attempt 1HKO you'd absolutely have to start at 5 stacks of Uncanny

But I don't think most people are even thinking about trying to make a knife 1HKO a Crusher

2HKO or 3HKO are already good enough

[gilded rock]

I saw this guy a few days ago too, he was level 30

Unless it was a different with the same name

[bitter turtle]

That's why I said 60

60 is safe 4ko range from 0 stacks

A 5 stacks it is incredibly minor difference

Like we're talking realistically a 1 percent difference in dmg

Like 1420 vs 1450 is what I had before

On 50 pen vs 80

[last parcel]

i don't need ammo where i'm going

[shadow dagger]

okay i tried plasma gun

felt awful compared to how good people were complaining it was

i assume the roll isnt the problem

is it an ill get used to it thing or am i just awful at figuring out when and how to actually use it

[last parcel]

you get used to the firing delay

use uncharged shots

shoot mfs in the face

dmg and stopping power kinda low so take longshot/redirect fire

[somber axle]

Is that with Desperado? 4KHO seems pretty weak for a good knife where the only low stats are Pen/Mob

[stoic mantle]

The delay is why I'm still a revolver chad

[somber axle]

I feel like it should be able to 3HKO

Aim for at least 3

4 feels slow

[tall torrent]

yes the roll is the problem, u need 78%+ dmg & SP with elite dmg perk

urs is missing breakpoints

due to low dmg & SP

and elite is priority perk for plasma

carapace isn't

[shadow dagger]

I figured out that it was mostly the firing delay and the weird hipfire crosshair

but yeah I guess hitting breakpoints would make it feel better as well

[astral blade]

Are we vets getting new weapons

[last parcel]

yes there is a new rubber covering so we can bone the plague ogryns to death

[astral blade]

yeah i mean guns or melee weapons not this whatever you said

[last parcel]

pounding that nurglussy is melee

[astral blade]

Ok quit trolling and be serious

[tame lodge]

Shock maul Bolt pistol and double barrel

At least that's the consensus

[gilded wraith]

And an elevator... guessing that an ogryn weapon though.

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-suplex-bag-thief-elevator-gif-17368424

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-rogan-ufc-rogan-ufc-commentary-ufc-reaction-ufc-reaction-gif-gif-26796353

[bitter turtle]

From 0 stacks of uncanny

It's very hard to 3ko

#veteran-class message

Start from here if you wanna read the discussion

If there's anything you don't agree with

I raised my estimate to 60+ just for safety cause the knife people are using is not always going to be 80 in everything else

[somber axle]

I was able to 2HKO on my silly Exe Stance Recon Mk VId build using Desperado

Though that was using funny Uncanny/Executor stacks

The 3HKO isn't really that hard to reach with Mercy Killer or Executor

I can conduct more clown science to show how much talent investment it requires to do when I get home

I am at work for another 3 and a half hours

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

This is what I used

[somber axle]

3HKO is pretty realistic to achieve

[bitter turtle]

As per numbercat request to test

3ko from 0 uncanny stacks is not very realistic

[somber axle]

I see your tests and I will conduct my own

[bitter turtle]

I want to emphasize

0 uncanny as well

[somber axle]

Yes I will do this

[bitter turtle]

I know max uncanny 3ko is expected

Ok just making sure there's no miscom

[somber axle]

I will begin testing 0 uncanny stacks and how much investment you need to 3HKO from that baseline

I will share recordings and talent tree set ups as well as what weapon blessings I use

I can't do any clown science until I get off work in 3 and a half hours though

Gotta earn the money for more cosmetics

[bitter turtle]

Ya

No crits too keep in mind

And yeah im out rn or I would record something to show you

[somber axle]

Are there other rules?

Or just 0 Uncanny, 0 crits?

[bitter turtle]

It's just attack from naked buffs

No pre stacking anything that requires hitting another enemy

[somber axle]

I will begin by grabbing lots of juice to show 3HKO then work backward from that high juice level to find the minimum necessary

[bitter turtle]

Max Focus target is OK cause I feel like realistically that's how you could do it

Though I'll say that's obv conditional in itself, though not impractical

Since you only need it on the first crusher

The test we did did not use Focus target though

[somber axle]

I think the standard scenario would be 5 stack Redirect Fire and 2 stack Focus Target if we're talking about fighting a Crusher in the middle of a fight while maintaining Redirect Fire

But also 5 stack Focus Target for opening into them

I'll test a few scenarios

[bitter turtle]

You only need it in your opening strike since after the 1st crusher you'll have minimum 3 stacks

Of uncanny

But ya

[somber axle]

Are we counting funny shenanigans like Infiltrate Surprise Attack

[bitter turtle]

I mean you can if you want but at that point I think it's not a realistic conversation in the context of "how much penentration should your knife have"

[somber axle]

Because 1HKO is achievable with that though I didn't test it enough to see if 1HKO is achievable without stacks of Uncanny/Executor

[last parcel]

i think that using that falls under "very hard to achieve" lol

[somber axle]

I think it's realistic if you consider VoC proccing FtE, CQKZ and Marksman as valid

[bitter turtle]

I dont

But

[somber axle]

So no ability and any related ability buffs?

[bitter turtle]

Well

[somber axle]

That sounds unrealistic for a fight

[bitter turtle]

Again you can do what you want and work backwards

[somber axle]

I can still test the least ideal scenario of your ability on CD

[bitter turtle]

But i listed what we used just cause I think that's realistically what is reliable

Ability buffs need spare points on the tree to take and also means you gotta open with an ability

I don't knownabout you but I don't run up and shout a crusher always?

[somber axle]

Wdym hard to achieve? It's like Zealot Shroud but most people don't like Surprise Attack since people usually grab at least Low Profile or Hunter's Resolve and usually grab Overwatch too so it ends up being too expensive and the short damage buff is too conditional for most. But it is also 5 sec duration the same as For the Emperor and most people also use For the Emperor for testing purposes on breakpoints

Like 1HKO Crusher Helbore III breakpoint testing

[bitter turtle]

Well if you grab infiltrate

You sac a lot of pts already

[somber axle]

Infiltrate takes you down the melee side for more damage

[bitter turtle]

And now you're saccing 2 more pts for cqkz and marksman?

[somber axle]

You can get the 10% and 5% melee damage without the talent point tax of needing to divert from middle or left

[bitter turtle]

Cause obv you take recip

For knife

[coral willow]

im sucking with BPs now smh

[somber axle]

I don't like taking Recip tbh

[coral willow]

missing some specials

sad

[bitter turtle]

So you need an additional pt invested in cqkz

[somber axle]

Like yeah in theory it is a lot of value

In practice even with my Frontline clown dancing I don't find it as valuable as CQKZ or Duck and Dive

Depending on the build I will skip Recip on the way down

I'm already a Deadshot fiend

Besides

[bitter turtle]

Well what would you rather have

More consistent 2 shots or a 3 shot specifically only when you attack from 0 stacks of uncanny

Causenyou usually need to crit to 2tap

[somber axle]

I would rather have the Close Damage buff from CQKZ or the Stam on dodge from Duck and Dive

[last parcel]

it's easy if you're taking infiltrate but i thought this was about generally getting 3hit

[bitter turtle]

With executor/ft/precog

[somber axle]

You said no crits for the test tho

[bitter turtle]

I know but now I'm talking in context of a build

Like yeah you can take cqkz specifically to help 3 shot from 0 uncanny stacks

[somber axle]

Ok but outside the context of a build I can hit 1HKO on a Crusher with Knife

[bitter turtle]

But is that even worth

[somber axle]

And I can 2HKO Crushers while using Exe Stance and a Recon

Like the damage is there

[bitter turtle]

I know but I'm saying

I'm now saying sacking points to do that is weird IN the context of a build

Not out

[somber axle]

Also yeah I'd consider the damage from CQKZ more valuable than Recip because the uptime isn't nearly as good as even someone juggling it hopes it will be

CQKZ is more on demand when I need it for coming out of Infil or hitting Exe Stance

Recip requires me to shove into melee and purposely dodge attacks to build stacks then continue to juggle those dodges that require you to dodge through a melee strike to maintain

Just not worth the extra effort imo

[thin stone]

HOLY FUCK I JUST GOT A GOATED ROLL OF THE Columnus IAG

[bitter turtle]

I think dodging attacks is not a hard ask for knife gameplay

[somber axle]

I could juggle dodging for 5 stacks that give me the same crit chance as Deadshot or

I can ADS for minimal effort on Deadshot

[bitter turtle]

Well deadshot doesn't affect melee here

[somber axle]

If you mean specifically for melee then like I don't tend to look at breakpoints focused on crits to hit tbh

[bitter turtle]

So it's not relevant to helping knife get consistent 2 shot

[somber axle]

You also made the rule no crits

[bitter turtle]

I know

[somber axle]

So recip is even less important for this test

[bitter turtle]

But again that's a different context

We were specifically picking a penetration minimum value

[somber axle]

If we build for crits then the game becomes a lot easier and funnier

[bitter turtle]

For the worst case scenario

That is the context

Worst case scenario is attacking from naked buffs and not critting

[somber axle]

Worst case scenario is a funny thing to test around but I will follow your rules to see if I can break them

[bitter turtle]

Like again

Read with numbercat said too

[somber axle]

I think the damage is there

Yes I saw

I am a clown and I must conduct my own science

[bitter turtle]

I think it helps give context to why we decided 51+

[somber axle]

I cannot be swayed until my own clown hands feel the truth

[bitter turtle]

Well I raised it to 60 for my rule of thumb and advice to others but yeah

Cause most ppl aren't running around with 80/80/80 knives

[somber axle]

But generally? I'd say aim for 3HKO on Crushers with knife as a baseline

Because 4HKO requires what

1 heavy into 3 push attacks?

Are you using triple Stam curios to feed that

[bitter turtle]

You aren't building around 4kos from 0 uncanny

The point is rather

Penetration only matters at 0 uncanny

So just check how much pen you need at 0 uncanny

At max uncanny it's like a 1% dmg difference

Between 60 and 80 pen

[somber axle]

Idk I think even at 1-2 stacks you'll feel the difference in breakpoints on Knives but ugh I'd have to download that dumb mod that lets people change the stats/perks/blessings on their weapons. At least I'm off work tomorrow so it isn't that big of a hassle

[bitter turtle]

This is for stat recommendations after all

[somber axle]

No abilities is a weird rule for starting a Crusher kill sequence

[bitter turtle]

I don't think so, do you test all breakpoints assuming you activate ability at that moment

Exec being active is understandable

[somber axle]

So the scenario is you just finished a fight but don't have 5 stack FT, your ability is on CD, no stacks of Uncanny/Executor and a Crusher has appeared

That feels weirdly specific and I still feel I can hit 3HKO

[bitter turtle]

But the ability activation buffs are like 20 sec cd minimum

No, the context is I don't always rush into a crusher pack by casting voc

[somber axle]

I don't use VoC

I am not limited by it

[bitter turtle]

I don't always rush into them with infil either

[somber axle]

For my funny Surprise Attack Infiltrate build I like to

But I am a funny person so I'm probably the only person using it like a mini-Shroud

[bitter turtle]

Infil has a relatively long cd so I don't like using it outside of making big plays

Killing 1 crusher better is not what I call a big play

If that makes sense

Like I usually use it to dive deep and knock out a lot of specials or etc

[somber axle]

With 3 combat ability regen curios and no Overwatch it has a 40 sec CD reduced by 6 sec through Tactical Awareness. It feels surprisingly available often for me. With Overwatch you can have 2 charges in your pocket to use back to back if you trade the longer CD timer

[bitter turtle]

But yeah remember the conclusion we came to is not rly about breakpoints as much as it's about penetration being a mostly dump stat

The 4ko naked buffs no crits scenario is not that common yes

But just having 50 or 60 pen accounts for that well enough

The point is just that you can dump it to that level and see no significant difference

Cause most of the time you are running around at 5 uncanny yea

[somber axle]

I usually use it either because I need to get a squadmate free from a net, from a hound or up off their knees. To circle around to rush a revive checkpoint to get someone back up. To do an objective in stealth when the team has been too preoccupied to play the remote flappy bird game for Hadron. Or when there are 4 sniper lines and 3 bombers/tox bombers acting without being targeted by the team and we're too busy fighting melee elites and specials to find an opportunity to hit any of them so I reposition to wipe them all out through Infiltrate

[bitter turtle]

Like basically I'd ask you this

[somber axle]

But I also like just slamming a 1HKO Knife into a Crusher using Surprise Attack when the opportunity presents itself

it's just too satisfying to pass up when it happens

[bitter turtle]

Will you tell someone with a 60 pen knife that it's bad bc you might miss a 3 tap from 0 uncanny on a surprise attack ability buff infiltrate build

[somber axle]

Yeah this is a wild stars aligning just to make sure you had an awful time scenario LOL

No ability, no buffs, no crits

[bitter turtle]

Then you agree with us

60 pen is enough

Maybe even less

[somber axle]

I would need to test it to see first

[bitter turtle]

Numbercat wanted to put it even lower

Cause he said at first critting once is fine

[somber axle]

I don't like 4HKO as a breakpoint baseline to recommend

[bitter turtle]

You probably aren't critting 0 times in 3 atks

Not 4 cause critting on the last one is worthless*

[somber axle]

If Rashad can have such silly requirements I'd probably consider it fine to say stats high enough to guarantee the 3HKO on Crushers is fine too

It's also like

[bitter turtle]

Guarantee is not really a good way to describe something that inherently relies on conditionals but that is just me

Rashad is difrerent

It doesn't have uncanny

Idk if you saw but I even argued against him saying shovel pen doesn't matter cause shovel is very realistically attacking with a fold attack from 0 uncanny

So pen on shovel still matters even with uncanny

[somber axle]

Numbers Cat is testing around VoC related breakpoints. We just have very different ways of testing and recommendations. As an example he recommends Maniac/Unarmoured as mandatory for the Mk II Helbore when you don't need either if you run Exe Stance and Focus Target + Redirect Fire. He already says you should have the latter when aiming for Plasma breakpoints too

[bitter turtle]

Its not just voc, infil has the same bps without surprise attack

And surprise attack is usually not a good pick

Infil builds are point starved as it is

Even with surprise attack it's not exactly reliable

5 seconds of buff every 40 seconds

[somber axle]

Mk II Helbore with Exe Stance and Focus Target + Redirect Fire hits the 1HKO on Flamer/Dreg Gunner and lets you grab Carapace instead to drop the breakpoint from 5-7 shots per Crusher (awful, slow, lame) to 2-4 shots (amazing, fast, cool) and tbh you have to purposely ignore damage to drop it to 4. The common breakpoint is 3 with little investment there. 2 is when you juice it to clown levels

[somber axle]

I'd just do Low Profile and Surprise Attack, or just Surprise Attack. I don't like Overwatch and I don't touch Hunter's Resolve if I'm running Low Profile because it becomes redundant in all but literally the worst scenario of solo clutching

[bitter turtle]

If you run low price and surprise attack it's already taking a ton of pts

Since you have to grab demo team later

To make up for not pathing through stockpile in voc builds

It's just an irritating tax for infil

I run overwatch/lownprofile most ofnthe time

[somber axle]

I'm kinda used to building around an ability needing 2 points tbh

[bitter turtle]

It's the same principle

2 tax pts

[somber axle]

I already grab 5 sec refresh and team highlight for vent purge/lights out on Exe Stance

I think Overwatch is unnecessary unless doing the penance with the same name

2 charges sounds nice in theory but only if you are not using it enough to get there

[bitter turtle]

I mean it's 2 tax regardless

[somber axle]

And if you use it often enough to keep it running CD

[somber axle]

1 min recharge

[bitter turtle]

This is my laspis build with overwatch swapped for surprise atk

It's pt starved

[somber axle]

It just ends up being objectively worse unless you're saving it exclusively for moments where you need it

[bitter turtle]

I don't even have demo team

[somber axle]

And even then like

[bitter turtle]

I don't see it that way

[somber axle]

How many moments warrant 2 Infiltrates used back to back?

[bitter turtle]

I see it as I can use it freely cause i always have 1 in the back pocket for shtf moments

Also

It makes tac awareness better

Cause you will rarely overcap cdr

[somber axle]

Yeah I do the same but I do it knowing the CD is shorter

So it will be back soon

Especially if I am killing frequently for Tactical Awareness

[bitter turtle]

I have used 2 charge together in plenty of scenarios but that's just me

[somber axle]

40 sec CD where every kill drops it 6 sec gives it amazing uptime

[bitter turtle]

Shtf moments is pretty common

[somber axle]

If you had to use 2

You will probably not get to use a third

[bitter turtle]

I dont really vslue maximizing the number of uses in a prolonged scenario vs having it available for critical moments to push in or reposition

Like being able to use 2 in a really bad situation immediately is more valuable to me than saying well in a very prolonged fight I got to use it a 3rd time at the end

[somber axle]

Just a difference of taste then. I like being able to use it frequently without fear

Overwatch would mean in the back of my head I know the 2nd use means it is no longer a tool to rely on in the short term

Vs without Overwatch and with 3 combat ability regen perks I know I can earn it back easily by fighting through specials/elites

The shorter CD just means I use it more often over the course of a match

I don't like to sit on an ability off CD

[bitter turtle]

Not necessarily

[somber axle]

The more plays I make before shit hits the fan, the less often shit hits the fan and the better off we are when it does

[bitter turtle]

Extra charge means it's regenerating more often bc i have a 106 second leeway before it caps

Vs capping immediately at 35 seconds or so

Same principle with tac awareness

[somber axle]

I watch ability CDs closely so I dislike Demo Stockpile for that reason. Either you use a grenade every 1 min to keep it from capping or you are wasting value. And sometimes you just legitimately don't have a good moment to drop one

[bitter turtle]

Well

[somber axle]

With triple combat ability regen perks with Overwatch it makes Infil have a 53 sec CD. You have to kill 3 more elites/specials before you can catch up to where non-Overwatch Infiltrate is

[bitter turtle]

I think saying demo stockpile wasting value is definitely a hot take

At least

Moreso than overwatch

[somber axle]

And it is even worse without combat ability regen perks

Yeah I prefer Demo Team for that reason

Demo Stockpile is just too focused on always having at least 1 grenade used to keep the timer ticking

It's like WHM Lilies

[bitter turtle]

If you're at 36/40 seconds, tac awareness "wastes" 2 seconds of cdr

[somber axle]

If you're not burning them

You are wasting them

[bitter turtle]

If I'm at 36/102 I don't waste any cdr

If that makes sense

[bitter turtle]

That is not really the way to approach lillies

You shouldn't be using them just cause they're there if healing is not necessary at the moment

Even blood lily is still a dps loss vs 4 glares

Really wish se would make it dps neutral but

🤷‍♀️

[somber axle]

It's 40 -> 34 -> 28 -> 22 -> 16 -> 10 -> 4 -> 0 in the unrealistic scenario of somehow killing 7 elite/specials in the exact same second the ability begins CD

[bitter turtle]

No I mean

[somber axle]

Yeah that's how lilies are used

[bitter turtle]

If your cooldown is between 34 and 40

Tac awareness is not giving full value

[somber axle]

You always burn a Lily because you want to use Blood Lily. Blood Lily is always better than 4 Glares when used during buff windows

They changed this recently

If you are not burning Lilies to have Blood Lily ready, you are doing objectively less damage by spamming Glares

[bitter turtle]

You should usually use lilies during downtime to get free dmg in situations where you can't target for glares

[somber axle]

You have to keep in mind that during buff windows you are using the equivalent of more than 4 Glares in a single attack and still using Glares for the rest of the buff window

[bitter turtle]

Most ppl ogcd heal 99% of times for optimal play

[somber axle]

This is always the best way to maximize damage in the buff window

[flat crypt]

Morning. We talking about gardening?

[somber axle]

It's magical gardening!

WITH BLOOD

[flat crypt]

Lilies everywhere

[somber axle]

Yes and you still want to burn Lilies when possible to keep them ticking for more Blood Lilies

Burning them during downtime is optimal when you can

Otherwise you never want to let them cap

Even just burning them during a time when no one needs the healing is better than just using a Glare in that GCD window

Because the Blood Lily will be more value for buff windows

[bitter turtle]

Oh wait I see what happened

Afflatus misery got buffed lol

[somber axle]

Yeah

[flat crypt]

Maybe I just pretend I know what you're talking about and go make some coffee

[bitter turtle]

You should have told me that when I said they should make it dps neutral

[somber axle]

Before it was buffed you would be right and people complained until Yoshi P changed it

[bitter turtle]

I stopped playing a while ago if you remember

[somber axle]

I don't because I forgor

Also I have to do work WHOOPS

Anyway yeah clown science later

https://tenor.com/view/cat-running-away-escape-getaway-bye-gif-16631286

[stoic mantle]

I despise this goddamn marksman's focus penance

[old quail]

i did it in one match

if ur willing to sell ur soul u stand at the end of smelter complex and melee stuff

[flat crypt]

Full crab mode, crouch-walking the whole map

[somber axle]

There are three ways to do this:

1. Crab Walk like you're playing a Ratling Sniper and spend most of the match on your knees using side dodge to try to keep up with your team

2. Get some friends go to the end of a match and then make them go afk while you spend an hour on your knees fighting poxwalkers

3. Lawbringer Manstopper Scattershot without ever needing to be on your knees once and learning the power of using a single Shotgun shell to evaporate an entire wave of a horde

[frank ether]

I did duo into a private heresy game

found an endless horde section

zzz

done

[grand perch]

having friends is op

[frank ether]

preferably high intensity

cause you want stuff to murder you don't want to stare at an empty map

[somber axle]

I used to have friends who played Darktide but then nothing happened with the game for so long they moved on to other games and now we're just playing other games together

Can't wait to play Space Marine 2 with them though

[frank ether]

my friend really really hates marksman focus so thats why I went for that method to complete it with him

[somber axle]

And it has been very fun playing Rogue Trader together

[frank ether]

so if you also hate it, do that method

[somber axle]

I even finally got pulled into trying Baldur's Gate 3

[stoic mantle]

What I found is the end of the phage tree mission works well

but I don't have any friends to do it with

[last parcel]

you have a lot of strangers here

[somber axle]

Anyway if you hate being on your knees get a Lawbringer Shotgun, put Manstopper II and Scattershot IV on it. Perks don't matter. Get Infiltrate and Low Profile. Grab the Camo talent node under Marksman's Focus. Between Camo and shooting heads hit 10 stacks then use Infiltrate and Low Profile to casually use your team mates as MMORPG tanks to suck up enemies around them and blow up every wave of horde that surrounds them while you are totally ignored with every exploded body toward your penance

It is very fun

Casually load very wide horizontal special shots over and over while turning enemies to dust

The only hard part is getting Manstopper

[astral blade]

So it looks like psykers are possibly getting cucked with this update

[flat crypt]

Team lawbringer 💪

First half I did with aiag, was also very effortless thx to it's great cleave

(it's also quite a beast anyway with me stacks)

[grand perch]

i did it like a man, with the mk7 vrak for the most part

...it may have been my standard go to build at that point anyway

[somber axle]

But I am not a man

I am a cat

In a clown costume

https://tenor.com/view/cat-clown-matrix-clown-costume-gif-17340123

It's only natural that I find a funny way to do something

[somber axle]

I still use it sometimes in matches but with Focus Target and Redirect Fire instead of Marksman's Focus

I should go back

[flat crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/push-ups-lawdaddy-flex-lawbringer-for-honor-gif-17442399

[flat crypt]

Got a lawbringer/Agri shotty build with deadshot and MF + rending strike & bring it down. Probably my favorite at the moment of all classes and weapons

[thin stone]

I got an awesome roll of Columnus IAG

25 flak and maniac with Tier 4 Deathspitter and Dumdum

[last parcel]

you are now the blender

[flat crypt]

Got your CoD gear ;D

[tulip condor]

Does "Desperado" +25% melee finesse bonus work only if you have a melee weapon that has finesse?

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-spit-gif-20218743

[thin stone]

Why are you spitting on yourself

[astral blade]

Replace deathspitter with stripped down

[astral blade]

Also you did say deathspitter

[thin stone]

Yes

[thin stone]

No I like Deathspitter more

[astral blade]

But seriously those change out deathspitter and replace it with stripped down along with duck and dive

https://tenor.com/view/chefs-kiss-french-chef-perfect-dish-excellent-food-perfection-gif-20341505

Chefs kiss than

[flat crypt]

My guess is that it works on everything, just better with more finesse oriented weapons. Haven't really tested. Do a quick test in meat grinder?

[coral willow]

i need to earn money

how do i do this

[tulip condor]

Couldn't tell. Don't use mods either so can't see if there is a difference.

[thin stone]

No

I like Dumdum and Deathspitter

Best Combo

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-deleted-gif-26122644

https://tenor.com/view/because-i-am-evil-lex-luthor-evil-gif-23063227

@thin stone

[flat crypt]

There should be a difference in weakspot/crit hit damages, no need for mods 🤔

Hit a heretics head with and without the talent

Also need to test with a weapon w/ and w/o finesse modifier to see if it only affects weapons with innate finesse 🤔

[tulip condor]

Copy, will do

[flat crypt]

Nice 💪

Would've done it myself but doing some bbq atm so most likely my family won't appreciate if I went awol all of a sudden xD

[junior needle]

No, finesse is an increase to your general crit/weakspot damage values.

It will work with any melee weapon

[thick kestrel]

alas, sadly, it looks like me and the mk3 headhunter don't gel very well.

managed to put together a reasonably decent one with headhunter and deadly accurate but the ADS recoil while moving is sadly a bit too uncomfortable for me to make use of.

which is a shame because it being able to burst down a reaper in 2 trigger pulls was cool as hell.

I think if I was more static when taking my shots I could probably make it work? but I'm so ingrained to moving as much as possible it feels really weird.

so I'll probably stick with the VII or potentially explore the IX for an alternative loadout.

[real pumice]

Hello, I was wondering if there were any general thoughts on the best autoguns atm for Veteran? Both the regular and the headhunter variety. I'm looking to see which ones suit me best for Auric Damnation.

[flat crypt]

Are you using exec and/or deadshot? Those stabilizes it quite nicely although it definitely is not such a long range sniper as VII

[thick kestrel]

the gold standard in most cases is the columnus mkV infantry autogun. it's... kind of nutty good in most situations, kind of plays like an SMG? close to medium range shredding.

we honestly expect it'll get tuned down at some point... but it's been nerfed a few times already and it's still gloriously good.

the mk1 infantry auto is also very solid, bit slower firing and more "assault rifle" than the V, reaches out a bit better for range.

for headhunters I've only really had success with the VII (as mentioned above) but I can at least vouch for it if you are confident in chasing headshots. the headhunter autos, true to name, are all about weakpoint hits and have superb damage output if you can hit them but they'll feel significantly worse if you hit bodies instead.

[frank ether]

whichever one you find comfy to shoot

[thick kestrel]

yeah I suspect that might be the case, I was hoping the 3 could act as a more middle ground option but I didn't really understand the gun's vibe.

it's all good, sometimes you just don't vibe with a gun on first expectation ^^

[frank ether]

all infantry autoguns and headhunters have high finesse

they can all hit like a truck when a veteran uses them

[real pumice]

Thank you for the advice. I've been told that the Columnus is really good but I seem to struggle to use it well. I think because the range feels so short. It really sucks to have a sniper or something in the distance find it so tough to get the kill on it

[faint beacon]

HHA's Require a Very Strict Talent invesetment that usually revolves around a similar playstyle which is typically sniping specials, Deadly Accurate is a must with a Blessing and Either Surgical or Head Hunter blessing wise.

IAG's are just your classic Run and Guns, DumDum is a must blessing wise, your second is of choice usually up to prefered playstyle

[thick kestrel]

yeah, the columnus "can" reach out and hit enemies at range but it's a bit tricky. if it helps at all crouching does make it much more controllable for longer range engagements.

but yeah, longer range isn't really it's forte

[faint beacon]

Burst fire or tap firing

Honestly if the Stability is low enough you kinda have to do that

if you roll low Stability on any of the HHA's that aren't the VII (Single Fire) its extremely difficult to control

[odd sparrow]

it works with all melee weapons. Finesse refers to weakspot or critical damage. So basically your crit/headshot multipliers gets 25% bigger.

if your weapon had a 2x crit multiplier, the total with desperado would be 2.25x

[thick kestrel]

yeah, it's unfortunately a situation where the same term used for... kind of related but different things? finesse on a weapon does tend to cover weakpoint and crit damage but it also tends to involve attack speed a lot of the time.

[rocky jacinth]

Mk1 IAG isn't that much better than Columnus for long ranges but it has piercing bullets. Nice for rager trains and Ogryn teammates.

[thick kestrel]

finally managed a chainsword upgrade \o/

actually... no... looking for wrath on this one for horde blending ^^

[thick kestrel]

admittedly forgot which chainsword mark this was for a minute ^^

[thin stone]

Hello veterans

[radiant chasm]

Finesse mod on weapon governs attack speed and the finesse ratios (weakspot and crit damage). Bonuses elsewhere such as blessings or talents only affect the damage and not the attack speed

Idk why it is this way

[dreamy spade]

Wtf happened

Few days ago my performance was amazing no lag

Now its unplayable

[coral willow]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-cat-dunk123-gif-26333820

[radiant chasm]

you angered your machine spirit(s)

[dreamy spade]

I just think it's the servers tbh

Like my hit reg is awful

[radiant chasm]

Check your background apps

Or like, if windows decides it is a perfect time to download an update

[feral bay]

So, having tried the mkII recon lasgun with level 3 headhunter and 4% crit chance increase, It actually feels about on par with my columnus autogun, but lots of free shots means I'm hardly ever going through ammo. It's nice.

[tiny summit]

So which is it? Is the game chugging and stuttering or is it a laggy match?

[dreamy spade]

No hit reg and feels too slow

[thin stone]

Hello

[wide pike]

WAKE UP SOLDIERS, ITS TKME TO FIGHT FOR THE SEX LEX ATOMA

[wide pike]

Oh this is a good one too

[faint beacon]

The Loose Cannon Veteran pressing the F key with the "For The Emperor!" Talent Selected

[wide pike]

I love the “YEAH! YEAH, WHOS DEAD?? YOU ARE‼️‼️”

Voice line

[coral willow]

that reminds me to change

my

stupid cadian into more relaxed loose cannon

on antidepressedants and just steals shit

[faint beacon]

Chose loose cannon when I started, forever will remain a Loose cannon Voice user

[dreamy spade]

Nah fuck this i literally shot a gunner in the head 3 times and non of them registered

I cant even clip because i took of instant replay to improve fps

[frank basin]

Bring plasma next time

If you hate shotgunner so much

[north pebble]

pretty happy with this roll. plasma was getting boring

[tame lodge]

Nice, SP not ideal but nice

[north pebble]

yeah, i hope max crit % shots can counteract low sp

[faint beacon]

Damn positive if it had Unarmored you'd be hitting the 1 Tap breakpoint on Dreg Gunners

Which I believe mine has cause its 25% Flak And Unarmored

Still really damn good roll

Just means you'll drop ragers more effectively

[sturdy zephyr]

Tap tap gun. The dmg are satisfying.

[digital mango]

I need my bolt pistol

[frank basin]

June 25th

You’ll get one

[digital mango]

🙃

Wish they could show which one there adding

[fleet thicket]

guys

i got a question

if you running kantrael shotgun

with chainaxe

what is better agile engagement or serrated edge?

[hearty panther]

serrated is terrible

agile is one of the best nodes in the game

[rocky jacinth]

serrated is ultra niche and only for mercy killer knife

[fleet thicket]

i think it only works for knife it seems XD

[errant prawn]

so do I gotta throw smoke grenades on myself or throw them at the enemy for them to work?

[midnight totem]

On yourself or inbetween works best

[terse idol]

It's based off of LoS

So yeah, either blocking you or in front of the enemy in-between you

You don't want to throw it on top of the enemy because they might just

Walk out

[midnight totem]

Serrated Shovel with Uncanny

[somber axle]

On yourself to get the concealment buff to stop enemies from locking on to fire. If you drop a cloud between you and the enemy they will continue shooting but lose tracking so you can side step a stream of fire and they will keep shooting at empty air. If you throw it at an enemy they will be momentarily suppressed by the pop but soon after the short suppression wears of they will resume firing and the cloud doesn't obscure their vision

[midnight totem]

Or serrated bloodletter chainaxe with thunderous

Max bleed memes!

[somber axle]

On yourself is the most effective but in a pinch you can cut off LoS down a chokepoint to keep the heat off your squad without clouding their vision

So sometimes throwing it between you and them can work well

[echo pendant]

New weapon idea for the veteran

A flag with a spearhead

[tall torrent]

The concealment status is what matters

[echo pendant]

Comes in 3 different versions.

Atoma, Kreig, and of course cadia

[terse idol]

Oooh vt2 spear

I neeed it

[gilded wraith]

Is this about the best I can do with this plasma?

[fleet thicket]

Guys

Who is looking forward

To using shock mauls ?

[rocky jacinth]

for me it's the double barrel

https://tenor.com/view/army-of-darkness-evil-dead-ash-groovy-gif-25791428

[last parcel]

i need shockmaul on psyker so i can make police brutality jokes

[tall torrent]

yes, it's good

basically godroll

[gilded wraith]

Awesome, thank you!

[narrow frost]

@wind aurora

I got field improv

[last parcel]

I got field improv

[winged sonnet]

just to check, charismatic affects demolition team right as its improving your coherency radius? or did i misread that somewhere

ive been running this as a bit of a goofy nade spam build/rotating to kraks when needing anti crusher/mons

but was wondering what to switch out to fit in shock trooper

ahh sod it ill switch out charismatic

feels like 50% of a relatively small range is not really gonna make that big of an impact

[fleet thicket]

@tall torrent hey in your build you got uncanny instead of decimator

for mark 7 sapper shovel

can i ask why?

[tall torrent]

Because uncanny strike is way better

While decimator is prob the worst +power blessing in the game rn

[fleet thicket]

hmm

does uncanny even give any horde clear?

[iron marten]

Uncanny is armour piercing

So Anti-Carapace

[fleet thicket]

also

why would those shovels need uncanny

dont tthey have 100% caarpace pen

in their specials

[tall torrent]

Risk

[fleet thicket]

okay

[iron marten]

Yeah, I don’t really use the mk7 shovel special unless it’s on a mutant or a lone crusher/mauler

Uncanny kills them pretty quickly though, even with just light spam

[tall torrent]

Mk7 has a safer single target combo of PA > L3 > L4

Uncanny allows u to use this vs maulers & crushers with good dmg without locking urself into an un-cancel-able animation

Decimator is also just not good 90% the time

Drop all stacks on miss, low active duration (2.5s), only stacks once per attack (not per target hit)

[iron marten]

You reckon they’ll nerf plasma on the 25th?

[tall torrent]

Plasma is the weapon being used in the new vox transmission

If nerf, prob -cleave

Idk tho, not much point speculating

[iron marten]

Yeah fair

Idk, just food for thought

I just hope bolt pistol ammo econ isn’t too terrible

[tall torrent]

I have low hopes for the new weapons added

And frankly I’m not gonna bother with them much until crafting update

[iron marten]

I see I see

It’s something to throw my dockets and plasteel at

[tall torrent]

I never save that much plasteel

[iron marten]

I should probably get around to my Ogryn though. Poor lad is only level 22 after 1.2k hours

[tall torrent]

I’m prob gonna check the new veteran-available weapons just for my guide

But that’s abt it

Low expectations for boltpistol

Low expectations for DB shotgun

[somber axle]

I'm all in on Boltpistol clown science as soon as it is here

going to build a bunch and try to make as close to a perfect roll as I can

[tall torrent]

It’ll be so funny if boltpistol not only loses to revolver/Boltgun but also loses to Laspistol

[somber axle]

As a clown I care not for numbers because I can juice any weapon into being relevant

[hearty panther]

if its fun idc

[somber axle]

it's more the feel of the weapon

[oblique totem]

dakka dakka

[somber axle]

the visual effects and the sound make or break a weapon in my eyes

[hearty panther]

but i suspect the double barrel is gonna steal my attention first

[somber axle]

it's why I snore whenever I look at a braced autogun

the gun's gotta be fun regardless of function before I toy with it

even if it performs well, if it's boring I'll turn up my nose

I have high hopes for Boltpistol because I already love Boltgun

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/rambo-first-blood-gif-23989356

[somber axle]

people tend to say Plasma > Boltgun and this is true from a TTK/DPS perspective but I never cared about that

[oblique totem]

My stealth build

[somber axle]

Boltgun is Boltfun

big BOOMS

[iron marten]

My main fun in vet rn is just using equipment a normal guardsman would use

Like knife/helbore

So boltpistol is an excuse for me to bring out the commissar outfit I bought lmao

[somber axle]

just replace the flamepistol with a boltpistol and yeah

that's the look I'm going for with the Boltpistol when it arrives

[iron marten]

is psword fine with boltpistol?
< absolutely knows nothing about wh40k

[somber axle]

I found this when I googled!

so I think that's fine if there's a figure with that combo

[iron marten]

Damn

That commissar outfit looks sick

And a sheathe too

[somber axle]

Boltpistol looks like a weapon pretty commonly used by them

It's in a lot of art/figures

though tbh I have no idea what is canon art and what is fanon art

[iron marten]

As long as it looks cool

[manic cloak]

Boltpistol by lore is given to a commissar once they finish their training.

[somber axle]

NEAT

[lyric zenith]

sry guys, change a lot from surgical III to surgical IV? i have a helbore lasgun with weight of fire IV and surgical III, i test it out and i see i usually 2 shots crusher, and when i use ult i one shot them

[oblique totem]

How is everyone today?

[umbral scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/868881336985866300/1252706650310312028/caption.gif

[dire jacinth]

mhmm is this ok with this elite dmg?

[woeful galleon]

Yeah, in the tabletop a Commissar starts automatically with a bolt pistol and a chainsword, at least in the editions I read, and may upgrade to a plasma pistol and either powersword or powerfist.
In books, Ciaphas Cain uses a signature las pistol from his training days, but most use a bolt pistol which, as mentioned, is often the mark of the end of their training.

[iron marten]

Ye, elite dmg is good. I’d say change carapace -> maniac and shattering -> blaze away/gloryhunter and you have a solid one

[somber axle]

That's cool lore

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-bravo-sickened-but-curious-gif-10357967

[somber axle]

Boltpistol will complete the look for a lot of people then

[oblique totem]

Too bad Fat shark hates us and will never allow it

[lyric zenith]

Flak armour would be better, also shattering impact doesn’t perform so well on plasma, blaze aways is way better

[midnight totem]

We talking about Commissars?

[midnight totem]

One of my favorite things about Cain is that though art always depicts him with a bolt pistol it's representative of the in universe propaganda about him

Because in reality he's always preferred his laspistol

[bitter turtle]

Elite is the best perk to roll

[bitter turtle]

Why would flak be better

[tall torrent]

Flak hits more breakpoints than maniac
But his SP is so low that it kinda doesn’t matter

[bitter turtle]

No he's saying flak > elite

[tall torrent]

Oh lol yea

[woeful galleon]

Aye, also why in the covers he's buff as hell.
The most precious thing about Cain is that he's literally just a normal guy.

[bitter turtle]

I know why you usually say flak >maniac

But the guy was asking if elite is ok

[tall torrent]

I’m also a certified blaze plasma hater

[tall torrent]

Elite is the best perk for plasma, however u might want to swap carapace -> maniac since it could be missing flamer breakpoint due to low stopping power (which is important), otherwise flak is usually better than maniac for plasma

Ideally you want 78%+ in damage & stopping power, 60%+ in ammo and 69%+ in thermal resist

Gets hot is the best blessing because crit gives better breakpoint consistency, then gloryhunter is incredibly strong for utility/sustain
Blaze away is overrated imo (no notable breakpoint gain, hard to maintain outside of magdumping which only applies at start of fight with low heat)

[serene bough]

Whos excited to meet swag

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/disguise-comes-swagger-man-majima-goro-gif-21688001

[midnight totem]

He actually is buff as hell

Cain is described as one of the tallest people in any room, and is legitimately a great duelist with a chainsword

[tulip condor]

Thanks, appreciate it

[tulip condor]

Yeah, that's how I thought of it originally but thought I should confirm

[woeful galleon]

Oh he is tough, ||the sole fact he manages to slay space marines, even if they are severely wounded from previous fights, is insane, || it's just funny how he's regularly portrayed so incredibly massive that he rips the arms of his uniform, which is still part of that propaganda thing.

(Spoiler put up as I do reference one of the books)

[midnight totem]

yeh, soloing warbosses and genestealer patriachs is no mean feat, even if the latter has Jurgen helping him unknowingly

[uncut pebble]

What blessings go on the sapper shovels for crusher 1shots?

I know one of them is uncanny strike, but I can't remember the other one.

[bitter turtle]

Why dont more commisars use the laspistol so they can become immune to enemy gunners? Are they stupid?

[last parcel]

is there a lore reason

[bitter turtle]

thrust/limbsplitter + uncanny

those are the only two that can do it

[uncut pebble]

Thrust it is, then.

[tall torrent]

[woeful galleon]

That's why commissars are so hated by most guards regiments, they just ignore the meta.

[tall torrent]

Also @bitter turtle laspistol is not actually suppression immune (not helbore either), they just take extremely low sway/spread increase from being suppressed

Shotgun, autopistol & plasma are completely immune to suppression

[bitter turtle]

Yeah i saw

what you said i mean

sry i didnt reply

ive been really focused on my art

[tall torrent]

I re-checked limbsplitter
If u land a melee hit during the limbsplitter CD period, the CD resets
Thrust is better

[bitter turtle]

oh

youd idnt know that?

yeah

its pretty sadge

Im just including both cause its technically possible

I still use thrust

I was using a meme limbsplitter taxe4 a while back so i knew you literally have to not attack for the duration of the cd

which is pretty eeeeh

[tall torrent]

Yea I thought it reset CD irrespective of atks

Thrust even though more risky is still better than “not having the buff because u were actually killing stuff”

[bitter turtle]

ya

I was surprised

you guys started suggesting limbsplitter

but i just went eh, maybe you just thought that shovel hordeing is bad enough that you just pull it out to fold atk elites

and pair it with a brauto or something

[uncut pebble]

Gun zealouts make me angry.

I'm sitting here fighting for my life against half the elites in the lobby + a horde and they're just burning all their ammo on trash.

So I neither have help in melee or any ammo for when I need to pick off annoying targets like snipers or gunners.

[coral willow]

i have like 1 build using gunzealot tbh

agrapina braced is the only way to go

[uncut pebble]

I'm just saying they need to pull their fkn melee out and help.

It's not much to ask.

[last parcel]

give zealots recon

[coral willow]

tbh i think i beleive now that gun>melee in hordeclear
but the problem is ammo economy

[uncut pebble]

Yeah, there were two of them.

[coral willow]

just dumbly spamming gun 24/7 is a great way to get yourself killed

[uncut pebble]

If I didn't have shock trooper I'd have no ammo at all.

[hearty panther]

give psykers shotguns

[coral willow]

why does psykers dont have shotguns

[uncut pebble]

I can get behind that one, even if it's off topic.

[coral willow]

like one of then was a

enforcer

lawbdringer is a enforcer shotgun

well arbites shotgun but yknow what i mean

[uncut pebble]

Point here is, gun zealouts are dumb and stupid and I think they are a detriment to the team 95% of the time.

The other 5%, they are literally powered by big E himself, but they all think they're the 5%.

So...

[coral willow]

so the new mission

nobody remembered to pull the plug actually it seems

[gaunt hinge]

psykers dont have the shredder autopistol either do they

[last parcel]

they have it

[gaunt hinge]

das crazy

kinda wonder why zealots dont get recons and psykers shotguns then

[coral willow]

"class diversity"

[thorny cobalt]

What's the closest thing vet has to a sniper rifle?

[coral willow]

agrapina shotgun

or ehllbore

or plasma

[uncut pebble]

It would be a helbore.

Plasma is more like "kill everything in this line."

No need to be super precise with it.

[round condor]

i need an easy vet build that i can easily use in the hardest content

[gaunt hinge]

the headshot multi on the plasma isnt particularly high either iirc

[coral willow]

well its a 2->1shot category do it counts

[tame lodge]

Vraks 7

[terse idol]

Infantry lasgun

either Ia, or 12

[last parcel]

Shredder autopistol

[terse idol]

Plasmagun Psword

VOC

😌

[round condor]

i hear that weapon is annoying to get use to

[uncut pebble]

Which one?

[round condor]

plas gun

[terse idol]

hmm not really

You just like spam left click

[last parcel]

you get used to the slight firing delay after like 1 match

[terse idol]

ooh that's what ya meant

[umbral scaffold]

I don't like the wind up on the plasma gun

there's a half second delay between click and fire

that may be what the annoying part to get use to is

[nocturne palm]

do y’all have a page for best build?

[elfin pelican]

what are the preferred Psword blessings?

dump is damage?

[nocturne palm]

I just started playing and studying builds helped me learn games

USUALLY

idk if that applies to this one

[uncut pebble]

You can easily get around that by charging it for like .2 seconds.

Gee, big E, I really did want a recon lasgun for my carry work on damnation.

Thanks.

[fiery wave]

@quiet valley

Also, death to the plasma gun, I hope when it’s nerfed it’s completely obliterated so that vet players can suffer like ogryns

[slate hawk]

Shovel > Psword

IMO lol

[stone adder]

so, what perk should i add? i know i'll replace shattering blessing with blaze away,

[fiery wave]

Unyielding/weakspot/crit chance

[stone adder]

thanks 🙏

[coral willow]

gluck

that stopping power seems too low for it to be finale though sad

[midnight totem]

what... we get a power shovel

[terse idol]

Valid

I haven't got the right stuff for the shovel

[slate hawk]

What are ya looking for?

[terse idol]

But like if you don't have pcycle 4 then yeah shovel sweet

Uhhh

I forgor

[slate hawk]

I like thrust 4

[terse idol]

[slate hawk]

Because funny bonk

[stone adder]

at least its better then my old plasma rifle

[coral willow]

gluck on your endeavors, and if you get a better one that has a blaze away on it you can dismantle this one and put on the get hot on there so

[terse idol]

Oh yah

I neeed thrust

I got like, limb splitter?

And it's nice but oh boy

It can be a little rough

[slate hawk]

What does that one do again?

Extra power on your first attack every X seconds?

[terse idol]

yee

[slate hawk]

Yeah that one isn't my cup of tea

[terse idol]

😭

[slate hawk]

Personally

[terse idol]

Yeah, I don't got a choice

Where dah thruuust

[slate hawk]

lol

Jokes aside

[terse idol]

[slate hawk]

20K plasteal

[terse idol]

pain

[slate hawk]

I just see if milk has blessings I don't have these days

[abstract moth]

So I just saw and of course they delayed it again, is it so difficult to remove the locks and let us mix and match as much we want provided we have the resources? Like a this point I don't even know if they'll do that or even make it worse

[radiant chasm]

Yes because theyve already done bandaid passes before

[tall torrent]

My take is that the itemization rework they’re thinking of doing is a complete overhaul (maybe removal of stat variance? Idk) and that they feel if they remove locks rn then release the itemization update it’ll feel like a regression in more ways than one (which they don’t want)