veteran-class

[radiant linden]

what ya wanna do with it?

like last pure dmg or

[raw steppe]

He's desperately trying to quote me but he cant so hes about to just disappear

Calling it nowzorz

Lololol

[radiant linden]

and which weapon do you use?

[frank ether]

If you're going to butt into a discussion and pick a side I'm going to assume you at least read the beginning of it which you clearly didN't

[arctic rampart]

Yeah I'm just saying, some games infiltrate I see aggro dumps constantly. Its just like people complaining about knife <class> compared to w/e meta weapon. There's some that are super gods and then you got normal players like the level 15 white knife zealot in auric qp

[frank ether]

Again vet chat and common sense

[somber axle]

Voice of Command stagger also buys time from the ragers with the AoE stagger but your time limit is exactly how long it takes them to get up. And it can be shorter if you have more ragers rushing you not caught in the stagger radius

[frank ether]

fucking tards

[dreamy spade]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c021f02-c74b-457d-8c2a-2ab9944d4c68/rat-3?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[frank ether]

Yes Dis I'm hiding from you

I'm covering in fear

over your goldfish memory

[austere pine]

this one is a very versatile one that i used for psword 6 and ciag

[radiant linden]

lol, resorting tardation defence

[ancient sedge]

I've been using mostly the right side of the tree with trying to get as many of the "on use of combat ability" red buffs as possible.
The raw DPS buff on exiting stealth on Bolt gun is very nice so I've been using that - but I feel that I have to invest too many reload Speed++ buffs into it to be worth while. I've been thinking of using Laz pistol and focusing on getting as much out of the focus target as possible since I can easily prioritize taking out high priority targets.
I also love being able to res allies quickly, or rush ahead when doors are open to hit explosive canisters to deal DPS to hoards passing through, or throw Kraks from stealth at big targets.

[austere pine]

minor grammatical mistake

[arctic rampart]

top row u take right side? I always seem to go middle

[raw steppe]

Damn you are upset lmfao; all i did was say your point about VoC was wrong; why dont you respond to that

[terse idol]

infiltrate gives you damage

To also damage bosses

[austere pine]

top row doesn't matter. i like to be fast forever and out for blood gives me some survivability

[somber axle]

Yeah that's fair. The average quickplay player is more of a benefit to the average quickplay team running VoC than Infiltrate in the same way they're more of a benefit using Shredder Frag Nades vs Smoke Nades. The tool is powerful but a tool is only a tool. It is only capable of what the user is capable of. And some people are just incapable

[radiant linden]

tis mine built

[austere pine]

no keystone is absolutely viable btw. nothing to fear with this one

[terse idol]

Like I dunno how you play infiltrate

[austere pine]

i just like the damage steroid that WS is

[terse idol]

It just isn't as bad as shroudfield

[raw steppe]

Yeah nobody is gonna argue VoC is overtuned numbers wise lololol

[terse idol]

Or any worse

[radiant linden]

twas my run in infiltration

[arctic rampart]

I tried smoke grenades 4 games and all of them made me a MUCH worse player. My god I dont want to think about it LUL. At least shredders I kind of got used to and liking after 100+ games. (I still personally like kraks more for boss damage butthat point is precious)

[austere pine]

what do the numbers mean i'm no scoreboard warrior

[frank ether]

Because there are like 6 of you talking to me and I only have two hands?? Lmao nice goalpost shifting though now all of a sudden you remember what was said in the past

[radiant linden]

its to judge flesh tear lacerate users

[vocal cipher]

I only used infiltrate to get the armor TBH

[somber axle]

No I just meant that VoC is braindead to use. Even a selfish and completely unaware Vet is still benefitting their team with VoC by accidentally giving their team toughness restore or gold toughness and also AoE staggering enemies. Even the dumbest VoC Vet is still somewhat useful to their team

[arctic rampart]

BUFF VOC ITS WEAK OMGOMGOMG

<-- braindead vet, make buttons ez plz!

[iron marten]

when they buffed voc cd from 45s to 30s, but the +100 gold toughness was still a thing lmao

[ancient sedge]

I feel like infiltrate is so not worth it if you don't get any of the buffs though, yeah?

[frank ether]

yellow toughness will never not be a stupid thing, its stackable on top of being stupid

[austere pine]

voc capable of doing nothing guys. if you use it next to no enemies and nobody's shooting at you and you have full toughness and you aren't shooting enemies also it does literally nothing !!1!!!!111!!!1!!1!

[radiant linden]

its a fun alternative for vet

[austere pine]

buff voc iit's weak guys !!!!!1!!!!!!11!

[radiant linden]

its a discount zealot

[terse idol]

hardly

[radiant linden]

but can be more OP than zealot on elites

[terse idol]

the extra time makes it so good

[iron marten]

Infil is great for gunner patrols. Just run to them and watch them get supressed, which gives your team some breathing room

[thick kestrel]

slightly more dakka zealot alternative, particularly with combat specialist along the way :>

[arctic rampart]

that'd be me, I use VOC On cooldown. If there's 1 poxwalker around I will push it.

[thick kestrel]

and infil's 8 second time period for the bonus movement is surprisingly handy

[radiant linden]

also infiltration replenish toughness

[austere pine]

bot behavior

[raw steppe]

Why reply to someone if you arent gonna follow up then? If you had too many obligations to juggle then know your limits and dont respond, rather than respond and then get mad when someone tries to follow up 🤭

[austere pine]

do you also run the mk3 hh with heavy sword on vet?

[arctic rampart]

Thats right, I am an attack helicopter servitor repurposed into humanlike form

[radiant linden]

pSword mk6

[arctic rampart]

psword mk3 I like that one the most

[thick kestrel]

combined with the full toughness recovery and stagger on leaving cloak infil has all kinds of neat little utilities on top of the reposition/escape power.

[radiant linden]

its abit lackluster on elite dmg tho

[iron marten]

ye. The amount of times I popped Infil when I saw >5 shotgunners walking around just to suppress them

[austere pine]

mk3 is slow due to not having a block cancel tech

[arctic rampart]

I use my plasma gun for crushers & bulwarks.

[radiant linden]

i dont even use suppression since i just swing me PSword

[arctic rampart]

you can activate it on dodge, and the heavy attack is addicting

[somber axle]

Zealot Chorus is fine because the Zealot is literally unable to act for the whole duration of the channel so it becomes a tradeoff. The Zealot is sacrificing their ability to act (attack, revive, etc.) to AoE stagger and give chunks of toughness restore + gold toughness. VoC Vets have no tradeoff LOL

[iron marten]

ah, I use knife and helbore, so my ability to deal with crowds isn't great to begin with

so them running around like headless chickens for a bit is useful

[austere pine]

it's defo a preference. i like the stab

[arctic rampart]

I can see that! I think what ranged gun you have makes a difference there.

[radiant linden]

[austere pine]

big iron

[radiant linden]

i one shot crushers if im luck, else its two shot on stab

[terse idol]

VOC is only slightly worse vs bosses because you can't get more cooldown resets

[arctic rampart]

Thats why I run 3x cooldown reduction so I can brainlessly push it more

[somber axle]

Crit CD reduction Zealot + Chorus my beloved

[radiant linden]

the stab to light is op

[somber axle]

I glow and will never stop

[terse idol]

(now secretly it's only giving 6s cdr)

[austere pine]

it's a really pretty combo

[arctic rampart]

My winrate is higher with 3x cd reduction vs other options, or at least it was 200 hours ago

[terse idol]

I meeaannnnn

You might just be playing better

[radiant linden]

my stab deals 2800 on crushers. (I spent way too much to find a PSword)

[terse idol]

Or your team

6s

Isn't thaatt

You're not gonna feel it

Is what I'm saying

[arctic rampart]

Nah I suckkk and I love pushing that button

[somber axle]

How do you even track winrate

Or is it like

[radiant linden]

external website

[somber axle]

The vibe of a winrate

[arctic rampart]

Small sample size with mods

[terse idol]

But how does a mod

Determine that you're doing better

Just because you're running 3x cdr

It could be literally anything

[frank ether]

''why are you not responding to me''
''know your limits and don't respond''

Bro acts like you werent sperging at me a moment ago lmao

[arctic rampart]

You try one spec for 5 or 10 games. Try another for same. You should be able to tell which is more effective

I guess you need at least 100s for a real counter, but you gotta work with what you got

[terse idol]

I mean the variance in your team

[frank ether]

Its boring for the zealot, but in a team sense its still absolutely busted, for the whole duration your team is free to do... Whatever really, and when it ends you're left with yellow toughness and a damage buff if you took the node.

[hearty panther]

cdr is hella strong tho

[terse idol]

Is gonna affect more your performance

[raw steppe]

Bro i dont need to know about your deep affection for me, if you're going to respond, respond to what I said

[terse idol]

I just don't think 6s is big that you'll notice

[raw steppe]

Because my goal is to shit on the dumb stuff you said

[frank ether]

Will you shut the fuck up if I respond to your sperging over voc?

[raw steppe]

I'm not going to join in on the personal attacks cuz thats boring

No because at this point i find it kinda entertaining

So ill gladly join the other discussion

To continue shitting on what you said

[frank ether]

Calls me a coward
''I'm not goingto join in on personal attacks''
Man this place sometimes

[raw steppe]

Quote me where I called you a coward

[somber axle]

It's like Smite and Voice of Command. But unlike Smitekers, Chorus Zealots spamming it are actually useful! Not as useful as VoC Vets though

[raw steppe]

I dont delete my messages so that should be easy

[terse idol]

To be fair all you've said about the whole infiltrate - Shroudfield stuff is i

Infiltrate bad

Like I put my two cents in

[iron marten]

don't you love it when empowered psionics smitekers just remove the horde in a horde game!

[dreamy spade]

well i'll be damned

[terse idol]

It's just not as bad as you're trying to lead on

[frank ether]

I never said anything about shroudfield today

[terse idol]

.

?

[somber axle]

I would if they didn't take forever to do it and still get bonked over the back of the head by a single poxwalker in the attempt LOL

[frank ether]

oh yeah, that

[dreamy spade]

HOW DO YOU BRICK THIS HADRON

[terse idol]

Like

[frank ether]

it is true though no?

[terse idol]

I mean

Yeah

[somber axle]

Purgatus Psykers clear crowds better

[frank ether]

do people not use shroudfield to nuke bosses?

[dreamy spade]

ISTG

[terse idol]

But you didn't give me any discussion about why infiltrate is this bad after I responded

[frank ether]

Have you never seen a daemonhost being deleted by shroudfield? I've seen it plenty times.

[terse idol]

Like

[iron marten]

I showed my friend an empowered psionic smite build and I kind of regret it 😭

[terse idol]

You've pushed back to say infiltrate is bad because it just drops agro

I've responded

[somber axle]

She noticed your charge rate was low so she gave you Volatile. How thoughtful of her

[iron marten]

Like, I know knife isn't great at horde clear, but at least let me try!

[frank ether]

I'm sorry you're gonna have to work with me smudgel I have responded to I don't know how many people at this point

[radiant linden]

you can just use fury double charge to two shot a Dh

[hearty panther]

you notice when you get a specialist kill so yea id say so

[terse idol]

You'vej ust been arguing with Dis for 500 years

[terse idol]

well

[radiant linden]

[terse idol]

Because you get more than

[raw steppe]

Soon we'll have enough experience to balance league of legends

[terse idol]

6s

You kill enough specs to instantly refill VOC

CDR seems to only affect the cooldown

Once

[frank ether]

You could also do that, or you could use your emperor anime figurine in a jar aka the relic to make DH cringe and fall off the map

[terse idol]

so with 3x cdr

You've reduced your cooldown

one time

[frank ether]

Actually Idk if the relic still pushes monstros back

[terse idol]

In the span of the entire cooldown

[frank ether]

I know at some point boss stun resist got buffed recently

[analog mural]

Relic does push monsters every other pulse still

[radiant linden]

who shat on ya figurines ?

since you are trying to jab at people

[cerulean ridge]

here's mine. bought and rolled one up for the 90% accuracy penance and hadron trolled me into using it ever since

[thick kestrel]

it still fills me with joy seeing a chaos spawn get pushed off the Torrent Bridge every time ^^

[austere pine]

hadron giveth and hadron giveth addictions

[frank ether]

Its cheesy but I like it more fun than shroudfield one shots tbh

[austere pine]

such is life on the mourningstar

[cerulean ridge]

yeah I did that once on accident

[frank ether]

Idk monstro mael is like the most fun thing this game has to offer and when a thammer zealot joins its no longer fun

so maybe its a good thing infiltrate is kinda lame in comparission

[analog mural]

Eh I find waves of muties+dogs+Bursters is more fun than monstrous

[frank ether]

its pure dopamine for vet

confirmed kill 💸

with the tox buff mutie waves are hilarious I'll give you that

[terse idol]

Zealot when they kill the monstro's in 1 shot

😠

Vet when they kill monstro's in 1 magazine with a bolter

😌

[analog mural]

Vets have kraks which are more boring than thammers tbh

[tall torrent]

Scab melee + monster is most fun to me

[frank ether]

kraks feel so pointless outside of bulwarks and monstros

[terse idol]

Krak's okie

[frank ether]

I play a lot of knife vet though I'm not too impressed by krak damage on boss

maybe I'm not doing it right

[terse idol]

well you use it for the stagger no?

[frank ether]

I don't have unyielding on my knife, I think that affects grenade damage

[terse idol]

free damage

free stagger

[frank ether]

I use it mainly for stagger correct

its very very strong

[tall torrent]

Tinkerer + bring it down is around 6.6k per krak (mathematically 6.8? But monsters have explosive resist)

[frank ether]

easy headshots in between kraks

[frank ether]

I assume you'd also be taking the +1 grenade for this setup?

[tall torrent]

If u want to, I don’t throw enough kraks to need that in my experience

But it is a lot more flexible with +1 yea

U can blast bulwarks and still have 1 for monster stagger

[frank ether]

usually the main fun in kraks for me is nuking bulwarks

whenever I have a garbo build and I rely on krak for carapace its disappointment

which is really hard to achieve btw

like its a genuine challenge to end up with a build that sucks at both flak and carapace

[tall torrent]

DC + Recon Lasgun + Krak

[frank ether]

but you can do laspistol+d.claw, queue in for scab melee only and now you're playing damnation+

[frank ether]

Doesn't the Vld have like really broken onslaught synergy?

I thought its like one of the good things about that weapon

[tall torrent]

I just don’t think magdumping crusher is super effective

[somber axle]

Wdym

[frank ether]

timewise probably not compared to knifing them but its relatively cheap and safe

[tall torrent]

Unless u put all ur points towards that single purpose

[somber axle]

5 ammo spent 3.4k DPS on a Crusher if the stars align. If not then it's closer to 3k DPS with 6-9 ammo spent

As a clown it is my passion to do things no one understands

[frank ether]

crit strings, rending and yellow toughness are probably the 3 most broken things in this game atm

[tall torrent]

I’m just not gonna comment on that u do u

[grand perch]

dont poke the clown

[somber axle]

If I get a perfect God roll Recon Mk IVd with 80% damage, +25% Carapace, +10% Elite, Headhunter IV and Dum Dum IV I bet I can push the DPS to 3.6k

Maybe one day

[terse idol]

Lasgun exe, MF

me as

Crusher

[somber axle]

Soldier 69 made a funny Mk II Laspistol build that did 3k DPS and only used 2 ammo to kill a Crusher

Whoops it was actually 3.6k LMFAO

[iron marten]

as the god emperor intended

[somber axle]

Anything is possible if you're willing to believe

[frank ether]

pain

but you can slap a knife or psword

then all is well

thats how I use iLas

[tall torrent]

the best part about 6d is that it tells u how good the mk2 laspistol really is

[frank ether]

I made a mental note to never do exe+mf in the same build unless I'm deliberately going for memes

I want to make a case for why recon is so stupid good at melting crushers but its shock trooper + crit strings + onslaught interaction there thats broken, not recon

[somber axle]

All the lasguns are fun

Love my las

[terse idol]

Frankly the game is perhaps abit better if you need to actually build your gun around things a tiny bit

[frank ether]

like the amount of busted talents and synergies recon has access to forces it out of garbage bin

[tall torrent]

make suppression immunity veteran's class baseline and that would be true

[frank ether]

To a degree this is fine but when talents affect your gun to this degree where its unrecognizable I think its wrong

[tall torrent]

having to spec extra 1 point just so infantry lasguns shoot straight just feels really bad

[frank ether]

it also makes for rly rly niche talents sometimes that would otherwise probably get deleted lol

[somber axle]

This is precisely why Fatshark doesn't care about Columnus Infantry Autogun but they do care about Recons. Ammo economy. A gun that shoots for free is a terrifying thing to balance ammo around. CIAG is balanced around actually having to think about ammo pick ups despite the high damage. If you give Recons comparable damage to a CIAG it will demolish the CIAG by being free to do and having longer bursts of firing between reloads

[tall torrent]

MG4 also shoots for free without any of that crit string shock trooper stuff

[hearty panther]

infinite dodges on force swords lol

[somber axle]

Yeah and you still wouldn't put it in the same tier as CIAG

[frank ether]

Here is my galaxy brain take sneaky cat, ciag would be fine without the crit string.

[terse idol]

The issue being shocktrooper doesn't give back that much ammo

[tall torrent]

I'd put it right below

[frank ether]

This is certainly a lukewarm take, perhaps even a hot hot take

[tall torrent]

I wouldn't put recon right below CIAG tho

[terse idol]

Like running shocktrooper on a ilas, sweet very good

Good ammo

econ

[somber axle]

More ammo, more damage. My Mk II Helbore is my fav pick for Auric No Ammo Mael Scab Only because of how hilarious Surgical, Surv Aura, Shock Trooper and Deadshot are when paired together

No matter how much damage your gun does, it does 0 damage when empty

[frank ether]

oh and onslaught is also busted on ciag lmao

[terse idol]

I wish I could agree

It's like the ammo efficiency differential

Shoot less to kill more with the CIAG

Because of the high damage

[frank ether]

I think I can agree under a game where survivalist doesn't exist

but atm ammo diff doesn't bridge the recon>ciag gap

[terse idol]

I mean

[frank ether]

you usually have enough to shoot your ciag all game

at worst you'll steal some tins

[terse idol]

The Nerf has largely helped abit, it's why so many vets are still crying that survivalist is broken - and needs a buff

[frank ether]

I believe it would be better if it was gutted in one go

no not gutted

removed

[somber axle]

I'd probably nerf CIAG by reducing clip size by 10-15 shots while leaving the damage alone tbh. As funny as the gun's damage is, if you reduce the ammo count it becomes the funny burst weapon instead of the funny burst weapon that has higher sustained DPS than most other guns in the game

[frank ether]

no class aura should have this kind of impact on team economy

but we had this talk to death lol

[analog mural]

The funny thing is this is the gutted version... It's been nerfed like 3 different times

[somber axle]

I wouldn't. You can make the Mk IV kill Crushers but normal people don't do that. An S tier or A tier weapon needs more than damage or ammo economy. It needs versatility imo. The only weapons that can do that by default are CIAG, Zarona Revolver, Plasma and to a lesser extent Helbores. Anything else needs talent investment to hit that level of being able to deal with any and all threats you can run into

If you have to swap melee to cover a hole in your ranged weapon kill list it isn't top tier or anywhere close to top tier imo

[frank ether]

That would be treating ciag differently than other iags though, I don't think ciag should be balanced like bolter, revolver, plasma etc on ammo econ. I think maybe just maybe we shouldn't have an AR that crits on like, literally every bullet

[somber axle]

Recons are S tier in my heart but no one would ever put them A tier or S tier. Most people wouldn't even put them in B tier. Just because something can do something with funny blessing, perk and talent set ups doesn't mean people will actually do it

[somber axle]

I don't mind treating it differently because it keeps it in its own niche without becoming a worse version of the Graia

If you nerf the CIAG too much it just becomes the new Graia LOL

[frank ether]

Maybe, depends. If a crit string nerf is likely to happen regardless as is rumored though maybe its better to wait and see how that pans out before nerfing any crit reliant weapon though.

[somber axle]

People will universally call it the worst and avoid touching it even if the damage numbers are on par

[frank ether]

eh I mean who cares about what people say

everyone is sleeping on agri iag

I'm actually hurting my crutch by bringing attention to ciag

[somber axle]

I don't. I main Recon Mk VId. I take Shredder Autopistol into Auric Damnation quickplay. I run Tac Axe with Brutal Momentum. I do whatever I feel like doing because I play games for fun and have the most fun experimenting with my own builds

Agripina Infantry Autogun is neat but I don't like slow fire rate automatic weapons

just a personal taste thing

also CIAG is just so hilariously strong right now that it's the clear outlier vs the other two variants of IAG

whether they nerf it by crit string, clip size, both or something else we haven't considered it'd just mean people change the meta to "Revolver or Plasma" and continue on with their day while anyone who likes the CIAG will keep using it regardless

[thick kestrel]

can confirm, would still dakka :>

random aside, it looks like the mk7 tactical axe still has the weird issue that it'll miss on the second light swing if your attack speed gets too high >_<

had an itch to use it again but found the problem is still there

actually... wonder if it's been raised as a bug... surely?

[somber axle]

I didn't even know that could happen

Fatshark probably doesn't either LOL

[thick kestrel]

yep, I've only ever found it on the mk7 light chain

aha, someone did

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/extra-attack-speed-causes-tactical-axe-vii-to-miss-attacks/84643

it's a delightfully weird one, which is a shame because I really like the mk7 axe and want to use it on my weapon specialist build, it currently lives on my VoC support loadout as a survival tool.

aha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6xzAL-VHK0

it's a weird one, I should probably look at getting the other version sorted out

(it might actually be related to trench fighter specifically? unclear)

[tall torrent]

What Mk IV? MG4 Lasgun?

If ur tier list is solely based off of crusher killing then no

I’m looking at overall function and MG4 as an infinite ammo + reliable anti-special/gunner weapon is definitely up there

Recon? Takes a huge point tax to run effectively and that already drops it several tiers

[serene bough]

Recons are at best C tier but probably more D tier

[somber axle]

Yes

Not just based on Crusher killing

Versatility

If your gun can't handle any threat it's not S tier

If your gun has bad boss DPS but can kill Crushers it's still not versatile

If there's any gap in your kill list then the gun isn't S tier or A tier imo

[serene bough]

That's a bad take

[somber axle]

Zarona Revolver, Plasma, Columnus Infantry Autogun are all S tier weapons because they can do literally anything and everything and excel at all of those things

Or would you like to explain why you think they're S tier?

[serene bough]

I wouldnt use Ciag for crushers but it's still S

That's because overall it compensates greatly at everything else

[somber axle]

It still demolishes Crushers

Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean it can't

It doesn't require the heavy talent investment of Recons to do it as an example

[thick kestrel]

nrgh... I think there's a bit more wiggle room than that? there's space for guns/melee weapons which do a particular job exceptionally well but maybe have 1-2 weakpoints you can still fill in. the columnus is a bit naff against carapace for example, and the plasma and zarona are somewhat blegh in the face of swarms or hordes.

[somber axle]

It just does it LOL

[serene bough]

Even so, ciag isn't S tier because it can handle crushers, it's because it's overturned to effectively take on other classes of enemies

[somber axle]

A weapon can be S tier at one thing and still not be S tier overall. A Shredder Autopistol does fantastic maniac damage but you're not going to see Vets putting that S tier as an example

[thick kestrel]

(i mean if they all line up then the plasma is happy but that's besides the point)

[somber axle]

It's S tier because it can do anything and everything yes. Including Crushers

And it does all those things very, very well

[serene bough]

Even if you want to make that argument for S tier, you certainly can fit weapons into A tier without that criteria

[thick kestrel]

oh certainly, that's why I'm meaning a "this gun must have universal effect" requirement maybe being a bit strict

[somber axle]

I'd put weapons that can do overall performance above average B tier. C tier is average. Anything less is below average

I'd say Mk IV Infantry Lasgun is a very solid high B

B+

but not A

Because it can't do what Plasma, Zarona Revolver, Columnus Infantry Autogun (or really any of the Infantry Autoguns), or Helbores can all do

[serene bough]

Weapons aren't S tier because they do "everything well", they're S tier because for the role they're trying to fill they exceed at exceptionally with minimal difficulty, high reward, and without any handicaps requiring full on talent taxes to make the weapon viable

Ciag isn't s tier because of crusher killing that's nonsense

[somber axle]

S tier for me are reserved for THE strongest weapons no contest. A tier is reserved for the weapons so strong that could nearly compete with them. Are you going to genuinely try to say a Mk IV Infantry Lasgun can compete with a Plasma for example?

[somber axle]

That's a lot of words for "do everything well" LOL

[tall torrent]

It quite literally isn’t

[somber axle]

Yes it is

I can go step by step through it and break it down too

[tall torrent]

“Do the thing it’s designed to do really well without severely handicapping talent tree” is not “do everything well”

[somber axle]

"Role they're trying to fulfull" ok so elite/specialist hunting specifically? Or are you also talking boss damage? When you talk about CIAG, Plasma and Zarona Revolver they do all of these things very well leagues above the rest of the Vet arsenal. It's not one role, it's pretty much all of them

"Exceptionally with minimal difficulty" yeah so a weapon that can do those things particularly well above the rest

"High reward" literally just repeating that over again

"Without handicaps requiring full talent tree taxes" yeah so like doing everything well without needing to invest heavily to make it do those things well

The only role you could argue they don't do is poxwalker/groaner/bruiser clearing and I don't really count that

[tall torrent]

Plasma is not that high in boss dmg

U can psykanium warrior it to make it do good boss dmg

Nobody normally does that

[somber axle]

And still does solid boss damage

[tall torrent]

Download creature spawner urself and see how long plasma takes to kill monsters with full headshots

[serene bough]

Plasma is an interesting S-tier

[somber axle]

Take a Recon against a boss, weigh it against a Plasma and see the difference in performance. Azrael can 100-0 all bosses with a Zarona Revolver for funny shenanigans

[tall torrent]

And see how much ammo u need to spend

[somber axle]

Really take other B tier weapons against bosses too

Infantry Lasguns vs Plasma TTK

[serene bough]

But you don't use iLas to kill bosses in the first place so that comparison doesn't make sense

[tall torrent]

Plasma is strong because plasma is a low point cost gun that has exceptional anti-special/elite capabilities on top of having acceptable boss & carapace dmg

The emphasis is on “exceptional anti-special/elite with low point cost”

[somber axle]

S tier weapons don't really have many or really any weaknesses. At best you can argue ammo economy but it's still doing damage head and shoulders above the rest

[tall torrent]

This is what every ranged weapon is scaled towards regardless of ur preference

[somber axle]

Because those weapons are weak for that role. Hence why I say an S tier weapon has to be able to fulfill any role to be considered S tier. You can have a different definition, not understand mine and we can still disagree

Versatility is one of the most powerful traits a weapon can have imo

And if your weapon can't do something, it lacks versatility

I wouldn't put a weapon in S tier if it can't do something even if it does something else better than anything else

[tall torrent]

Besides melee killing BoN there’s not much versatility u can’t make up for

[earnest sand]

Can I make chainsword meta?

[tall torrent]

On zealot yea
On veteran, chainsword is much weaker

[somber axle]

A tier for me is still reserved for weapons that could almost compete with S tier and in some cases can match S tier weapons

And I genuinely don't think a Mk IV iLas can compete with any of the S tiers

it's a very solid gun, a very strong gun, a very good gun

it's not doing anything the S tiers can

[serene bough]

I don't think mk4 is S tier but I do think your definition for s tier is very reductive

[tall torrent]

What’s ur A tier then

[serene bough]

And by extension, A tier

[somber axle]

Helbores because I adore them (except Mk II Helbore because I think a perfect rolled Mk II Helbore can be S tier in the right hands)

I'd also put the other Infantry Autoguns into A tier

they're very strong

not quite CIAG strong

but still very, very strong weapons

I'd also say that Vraks III is a very solid contender for A tier

Vraks VII could be low A tier to me

but I'd never put a single Braced Autogun in S tier or A tier ever

if a sniper is across the room behind cover requiring a weapon with good accuracy to kill, a braced autogun is going to force you to close the distance

[thick kestrel]

I suppose one thing to note here is how the concept of a teir scaling is working and being talked about. an "internal" teir list comparing the weapons to each other or a more context specific one based on the wider gameplay and specific context roles?

the difference is... kind of subtle? but it has a lot of variation depending on preferences and considerations with things like other classes.

but then that's the point of tier lists, it's all preference and bias.

[somber axle]

you wouldn't need to reposition with an S tier or A tier

[hearty panther]

tier lists are d tier

[thick kestrel]

^^

[tall torrent]

AIAG is B tier at best

[serene bough]

Ur d tier

[somber axle]

I have an old tier list I made that was under the thought process of "guns I think are fun AND functional, vs guns that I think are just functional, vs guns that I think are just gun, vs guns that I think are neither"

[somber axle]

we can disagree LOL

that's fine

I think it's A tier

[tall torrent]

If it didn’t stagger gunner on headshot it’d be higher

[somber axle]

you think it's B tier

[somber axle]

can I be C tier

[serene bough]

There can only be one correct answer

[somber axle]

C for clown

[thick kestrel]

I would argue some love for the mk8 braced auto... mostly from nostalgia and getting to walk about ramboshooting :>

[serene bough]

We can settle this the old fashion way

[tall torrent]

Headshot stagger on gunners from ranged weapon is a really reductive function that nobody wants

[somber axle]

I'm not saying the Braced Autoguns are bad, just that they're not S tier and can't compete with S tier so they can't be S or A by my own definitions

[serene bough]

How about C-

[somber axle]

Tbh I like stagger because interrupting targets from firing is important to me for keeping damage off the squad and alleviating pressure. Whether a target is dead, staggered or suppressed the target is now outputting 0 damage. If a target is firing it's still forcing people to either LoS, dodge, or use hordes to body block

I wouldn't view stagger as a negative

[tall torrent]

Exe stance mk8 braced autogun has like 50m effective range on initial burst

[somber axle]

I'LL TAKE IT

[serene bough]

Down with your beloved recons you go

[somber axle]

which sounds good in theory until a sniper behind a crate is aiming from the opposite end of a room while you're busy fighting a mixed horde

[tall torrent]

Stagger is a negative because it makes u kill 1 enemy slower without suppressing nearby gunners

[somber axle]

also do you actually run Exe Stance with Braced Autoguns

[tall torrent]

If you staggered 1 and stopped nearby enemies from firing then yes

[somber axle]

or is this like my clown science of explaining that a weapon CAN do a funny thing even if most wouldn't

[tall torrent]

But that’s clearly not the case

It just makes u kill slower on a gun that has already bad recoil

[somber axle]

idk I would still consider it a net positive of stopping 1 target from firing because even if the target isn't dead it's still providing benefit vs another gun that has comparatively less DPS and slower TTK on 1 target

even if you staggered 1 target, suppressed 0 and killed 0 you're still doing more than a gun that has yet to kill, suppress or stagger any targets at all

[tall torrent]

I highly recommend u just download creature spawner and test things for urself

[thick kestrel]

I do! it's kinda fun the gun is surprisingly accurate from hipfire with it and combined with hit and run you can kind of just wade through shooter swarms like you're playing quake ^^

[somber axle]

I already test things in the Psykanium

and in actual matches

if I make a funny build and it does funny things in the Psykanium I don't just wash my hands of it and say it was funny

I take it into matches

and put it to the test there

[tall torrent]

Test with creature spawner is a more controlled environment and u can emulate real scenarios a lot better than the base psykanium

[somber axle]

sure but I can already emulate real scenarios in real matches

a real scenario has more factors to take into account than creature spawner can ever give you

[thick kestrel]

main thing I need to figure out is if I want deathspitter or fire frenzy on my mk8 Brauto... >_>

[tall torrent]

just spawn more enemies

[somber axle]

a real scenario will have team mates to factor in and a very aggressive AI director or other map modifiers

[somber axle]

can you spawn in tox gas modifier and a downed Zealot across the room to rescue too

now you have a timer and a hazard

[tall torrent]

U can spawn in 3 pox bombers and figure out how to deal with everything by urself

[somber axle]

you not only need to deal with threats in a timely manner, you need to do it before someone dies and also navigate a dangerous room too

[somber axle]

not the same LOL

the point is that Psykanium is for math testing

for real testing I use real matches

[tall torrent]

How different exactly

[somber axle]

I can then test weapons vs certain map modifiers, different difficulties and feel the performance when playing with randoms

[tall torrent]

Why even different difficulties

[somber axle]

creature spawner is fun for expanding on the funny math and individual performance you can do

[somber axle]

because an Auric Damnation match with no modifiers is different to an Auric Damnation HiSTG, and both are different to an Auric Maelstrom, and every Auric Maelstrom is different, and then you lump in things like lights out, vent purge, tox gas, etc.

all those things have varying difficulties that can change how performance goes

[tall torrent]

Ok

[somber axle]

testing a build in the Psykanium with creature spawner is neat for seeing how you would do vs a static boss standing still, or even putting it active

and that's funny because seeing Azrael instagib bosses makes me laugh

[tall torrent]

U do realize that u can make it not stand still right

[somber axle]

yes I realise that

what I also realise is that there's no AI director in Psykanium spawning more things

spawning in a horde to contend with while fighting a boss in a controlled environment is neat for math

an AI director is not controlled

you must contend with hearing hound howls, trapper net wind ups, mutie roars and all sorts of other things to react to

you hear a tox bomber spawn and that's high priority

[tall torrent]

An AI director is not randomized and uncontrolled

[somber axle]

someone accidentally fires a shot wide and aggros a flak rager patrol adding to the mix

things like that

controlled environments are neat for testing

but to take things beyond controlled environments is where I do my testing beyond that

[tall torrent]

Then spawn all those enemies by urself and practice it

[somber axle]

if I could set each spawn on a repeating timer it could be a funny thing to toy with

like if you set a hound to spawn every 1 min

so that while fighting a boss you hear the howl and now need to look for where it came from

[tall torrent]

U press a button to spawn it’s pretty simple

[somber axle]

I mean yeah it is?

[tall torrent]

It’s not

It doesn’t spawn completely randomly endlessly

[somber axle]

So you mean to say that on a particular map on a particular difficulty it always spawns the exact same bosses, specials, items, etc.

[tall torrent]

That’s not what I said

[somber axle]

ok then it's random

[tall torrent]

What I am saying is that there’s a certain limit on how much it can spawn based on wave intensity

Even though it might feel like endless elite & special spam, it’s not doing endless elite & special spam

[somber axle]

Yeah I know it has a cap

And that spawner is still something that Psykanium creature spawner can't mimic

[tall torrent]

You can estimate how much it can spawn

And spawn everything beforehand

Place everything in separate corners

[somber axle]

if you spawn in everything at once, it's still not accurate because once you clear other threats they're gone, but with an ai director they don't stay gone

the fight is never ending

[tall torrent]

These enemies would be far enough that they don’t aggro immediately as soon as u disable invisibility

You have to get closer to them for them to aggro

[somber axle]

for elite patrols yeah

for specials and hordes no

[tall torrent]

It’s still much better than normal psykanium

And I think u should try it

Especially since ur talking this testing work

[serene bough]

If you dont try it I'll bump you down to D tier

[tall torrent]

Even the ability to test which attacks stagger which enemies is important and ur just completely ignoring that

[somber axle]

anyway like I think this is just a disagreement on creature spawner as a testing tool. I'm not saying it's bad, but I am saying that killing something in the Psykanium with creature spawner is closer to being a Psykanium Warrior for testing purposes than testing things in actual matches

it's a good testing tool

but it's still the equivalent of doing a trial mode in Mario Kart

no other racers

just you and the track

and a real Mario Kart race is going to have other players and items to contend with

[tall torrent]

It’s rly funny that you have the most psykanium warrior builds here and u somehow don’t use creature spawner

[somber axle]

and what items you contend with vs what items others contend with

[somber axle]

wdym Psyk Warrior builds

do you mean the Recons? LOL

[tall torrent]

Full juice recon

[somber axle]

Idk how to tell you that I do that in Aurics

it may be slightly less damage and ammo economy depending on the context of a fight

but it's still doing what I show it doing

do you think I just take Exe Stance Recon with my talent set up for memes in Psykanium and never play it in real matches or

[tall torrent]

Ik u use it
It’s still meme build

[somber axle]

is this an argument that in a real match the actual performance will never match up to the ideal stars align funny recordings

because like

the ideal stars align funny recordings are just funny math moments

pushing the limits on what a weapon can do in the ideal scenario

that's not representative of the actual performance in a real match with real players and an ai director changing encounters

[tall torrent]

Actually what did u use when u played with Azrael

I’m curious now lol

[somber axle]

my first match I did Helbore Mk II (because I was nervous since it's Azrael and I wanted to try to keep up with them)
second and third match I did Recon Mk VId

I do know that Azrael was disappointed in me though LOL

I tried really hard to keep up with them but they're just insanely good

😩

A clown can dance, but not nearly as well as a god

[wanton dawn]

Ah, he told me

[somber axle]

I definitely sucked LOL

I went down a bunch and was really embarassed

[tall torrent]

Were u “Judgemental”

[wanton dawn]

Me ? Not my nature

[tall torrent]

Ok

Prob someone else then

[somber axle]

I was extra nervous because at first they said you were joining too Mr. Craime and they had a friend with them I didn't know so I assumed they were you

I was 100% sure you two were going to leave me in the dust LOL

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, i play with them regularly nowadays

[somber axle]

I might be funny, but I'm not that funny

[wanton dawn]

Guess i can keep up

[tall torrent]

No I was unavailable at the time

Somehow I always have the worst timing when they’re on

First time: I’m out touching grass

Second time: I’m out doing grocery

Third time: I’m somehow still out on grocery

Fourth time: finally got 1 game in

Fifth time: I’m stuck in summer school

[somber axle]

one day I'll be good enough to keep up with you two

I just need more clown dance practice

[last parcel]

dance on deez nuts

[wanton dawn]

You dunno you havent played with me yet

[tall torrent]

And the only game we played I fucked around and grabbed 300 plasteel

[somber axle]

You're going to leave me in the dust too

as funny as Recons are, they're not Revolver or Plasma tier LOL

even with all my juice

[tall torrent]

The trick is to just play melee super aggressively

[somber axle]

I might be able to at least be somewhat useful with my Mk II Helbore though...

[somber axle]

I do but not on my Recon or Mk II Helbore builds

[wanton dawn]

Meh, i like slower game too

[somber axle]

I'm trying to push to the frontline but not throwing myself into melee range with a Recon

[last parcel]

recon bayonet brutal momentum

[tall torrent]

Are u a tau player

[wanton dawn]

Plus, now i have zealot and ogryn lvl 30 and i am not good on them

[somber axle]

I don't touch the tabletop. If I did I'd be an Ork player 100%

They make me laugh

That's really all it takes to win my heart

[bitter turtle]

Recon bayonet when

I'm still waiting

[somber axle]

But if you mean avoiding melee entirely then no. I will swap melee depending on the context of a fight but I try to lean more into dodging and shooting with my Recon

[tall torrent]

Ork gamer with tau mindset

[somber axle]

Knife time when suddenly there are 6 Ragers in my face

[bitter turtle]

I only played with like 3 or 4 people here

[somber axle]

I love the Dakka

[bitter turtle]

At least more than once

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/shoota-boy-warhammer40k-dakka-dakka-waaagh-warhammer40000-gif-26360598

[wanton dawn]

In any case, dont feel bad for not keeping up with az.

[bitter turtle]

Path/numbercat, mrcraime and foxhope who hasn't been in here in a while lol

[somber axle]

I don't feel bad for not keeping up. I do feel bad for my bad performance though LOL

[bitter turtle]

Haven't played with Az though

[wanton dawn]

He doesnt pick mat

[tall torrent]

My playstyle is “bath.rawr picked up large plasteel (+25)”

[bitter turtle]

What a fucking animal

[somber axle]

The true scoreboard competition is seeing who collected the most plasteel at the end

[wanton dawn]

Havent participate much cuz i got bored and am doing more adult stuff

[tall torrent]

He has too much plasteel to care abt mats

[wanton dawn]

The boring adult stuff, not the frisky type

[iron marten]

Bruh how much is too much

[tall torrent]

6 digits I think

[iron marten]

I have 270k plasteel and I still pick it up lmao

[wanton dawn]

I have 25m dockets too much

[last parcel]

ooo baby i know you love these hot nasty spreadsheets

[wanton dawn]

You laugh but i am very good at excel

[iron marten]

25m ordo dockets = time to buy 100 weapons

[wanton dawn]

I dont care about crafting

It sucks my soul out of my body

[tall torrent]

I might not top dmg but I will top plasteel pickup

[hearty panther]

ill spend like 250k plasteel on a wep, maybe upgrade five out of the selection, and then at the end of the day get all that money back anyway

waste of time yeah

er not plasteel

dockets

[iron marten]

I might not top dmg, but I will top dmg taken

[somber axle]

I understand. I've had very little play time the last week just because of a wild private convention to work in Vegas on top of family shenanigans for father's day. So much family politics and drama just for a holiday. Then I've got a litter of stray kittens nesting in my garage because the floor level air vent grate came off somehow and the pregnant mom snuck in. And I'm watching my brother's dogs

[tall torrent]

Is that most or least

[iron marten]

I’ll let you decide, more fun that way!

[bitter turtle]

I'm taking a break break from the game ish

[somber axle]

Plus trying to make time for date nights

[bitter turtle]

Working on art

[somber axle]

it's hard being an adult

[bitter turtle]

And stuff

[tall torrent]

I went to DRG s5
And summer school grind
Until patch 19 drops

[last parcel]

damn you got vet chat in your garage

[somber axle]

They're hiding in an old shoe rack

LOL

The mother terrifies me

[wanton dawn]

I only do group play in dt nowadays

[somber axle]

I've been giving her wet cat food (since I already own a cat) to help her stay fed for keeping her healthy so she can take care of her kittens but like

she will run up to me and growl, hiss

then rub up against me affectionately

no biting, no scratching

she will even lay in my lap and continue to growl at me while rubbing her face into me

I have no idea what these mixed signals are because I've raised cats and worked with strays before, and this is the first time one is showing signs of aggression and simultaneously showing love

[wanton dawn]

1st time ? Eh

[somber axle]

she does the play bite thing where she opens her mouth and puts her teeth around me, but she never actually bites or applies pressure

[somber axle]

I've had strays hiss and growl

[tall torrent]

The one game I played with Azrael
I wander off to get some plasteel then I see Azrael & Judgemental 90m ahead fighting the Roman Legion

[somber axle]

that's normal

I've never had one hiss, growl and try to cuddle

at the same time

[inland orchid]

probs got sadly conditioned that way by the previous owner that made them a stray

[somber axle]

I'm half tempted to adopt her if I find out she doesn't have an owner looking for her

[wanton dawn]

Cat have personalities. Like people. And some are "quirky"

[somber axle]

the plan is to get the kittens their vaccinations, get them fixed and get them new homes once they're old enough for all of those things

[last parcel]

“she has chosen me, not you, peasant ”

[wanton dawn]

Wont get a cat anytime soon though

[deft crystal]

Any good rrevolver build

doing a infiltrrator vet with revolver + knie

[wanton dawn]

I'd argue that vet rev+knife is destined to be mid at best as they share the same strenghs & weaknesses so...

[bitter turtle]

Try this

[bitter turtle]

Should hit the bps but sacrifices were made for taking infil

[hearty panther]

ew

[last parcel]

who stole the icons 😭

[bitter turtle]

My shitty connection

[tall torrent]

Honestly should just spec into krak/smoke and call it a day lol

I don’t think revolver is that bad in ammo economy anyways

[bitter turtle]

I went that side cause surv for revo is nice but yeah

[iron marten]

Agile engagement too!

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa shotgun wants it, but Zarona idk

Zarona is just turbo ammo efficient and u get a lot from a single ammo tin

[tall torrent]

10 per tin with the +25% ammo talent

[bitter turtle]

I prob would do something like this

I haven't played zarona in a while

[tall torrent]

On knife I’d also say drop Overwatch for a stam regen node

Knife without stam regen boost is suffering

[bitter turtle]

So my only frame of reference is playing agri revolver

[iron marten]

Lmao

[bitter turtle]

For ammo I mean

[iron marten]

I played agri revo once and I scooped up 13 ammo tins

Good thing the other players had decent ammo eco weps lmao

[tall torrent]

My highest ammo pickup was this

But 2 staff Psykers so I didn’t rly have to care abt ammo

[iron marten]

261k damage. Uh what was that vet doing

Well, at least he picked up plasteel so it’s fine

[tall torrent]

He died once before first event
And died again in final event

[iron marten]

Oh it’s Silo Cluster

The big stairs in the beginning

I understand now

[somber axle]

I can at least respect that he didn't ragequit LMFAO

[tall torrent]

I think he died before the bridge tho

Wasn’t far from respawn

[bitter turtle]

I ca nshow you worse

[tall torrent]

We ran into so many weird people

[bitter turtle]

Na

This one was pug

I matched with arco coincidentially

[somber axle]

I was experiencing strange deja vu

[bitter turtle]

Have you ever seen sub 100k dmg

In an AM

[somber axle]

OH I FOUND SOMETHING

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1231035335295631470/image.png?ex=6672cbbf&is=66717a3f&hm=81f73f23fd14ddbb520fe6c57152f832662f5e194860ea801fb317722d318387&

I knew I vaguely remembered something

[iron marten]

Oh hey, that’s me!

[last parcel]

i think i saw you on the mourningstara few times

[somber axle]

I don't know if there's been a higher number shared

[tall torrent]

To be fair AM varies pretty wildly

U could hit higher dmg in HiSTG than AM pretty frequently

[last parcel]

astra militarum does have a lot of variety

[tall torrent]

But yea <100k is bad lol

[somber axle]

it's really funny having an Auric Maelstrom that feels like a standard Damnation run

[bitter turtle]

Yeah but sub 100k still manages to be the worst dude I've ever played with

[iron marten]

I’m play in OCE, though the game sometimes puts me in Asia lobbies

[tall torrent]

Even in low int its not hard to be >100k

[bitter turtle]

He was raging at us the entire time and for some time tried to wipe us on purpose but only got himself killed lmao

[last parcel]

oh nvm, im in NA so must’ve been a different gooner

[iron marten]

Haha

[bitter turtle]

Gave up and just played the game after that

[last parcel]

unless they put both of us in asia lmao

[iron marten]

Yeah, FS mm servers are an enigma sometimes

[last parcel]

also

[iron marten]

8 crate

Were you using a recon

[last parcel]

how did you know

[iron marten]

Just a hunch!

[somber axle]

those are the funniest dudes LMFAO

I had one who was trying to spite me by going max ammo goblin mode and literally firing off a single shot before picking up a tin just so they could take it from me

he died near the end and ragequit

[serene bough]

Is this real

[somber axle]

8 crate hits???

[serene bough]

How do you do sub 100k damage

[tall torrent]

Spend half the game dead

[serene bough]

But like

Even if you're dead half the game you should still reach at least 200k

[somber axle]

imagine he goes down and no one rescues him because he's being an asshole

[serene bough]

This guy mustve died immediately after being revived

[somber axle]

so he spends most of the match dead

can't believe he decided to stick around in spectator mode LOL

[tall torrent]

Could be one of the less chaotic AMs

Judging by that nobody even reached 400k Dmg

Only 1 boss spawn too, the boss Dmg adds up to like 1 chaos spawn’s health

[iron marten]

I rarely play maelstrom, Hi5STG is my fav mode :P

[somber axle]

Sniper Gauntlet Lights Out only

[last parcel]

yes

[somber axle]

I'm kidding but that's my fav

[serene bough]

Definitely a first time for me to witness I suppose

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-gif-24099691

you

[iron marten]

The nurgle blessed, scab, waves of specialists, monstrous specialists probs the most painful maelstrom though

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-anime-horror-gif-9676365

your team

[iron marten]

Only completed it a handful of times

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-money-rain-making-it-poor-help-me-gif-13929353

[iron marten]

Me when I see a green rager

[tall torrent]

Scab melee monster is prob the best dps stress test u can run

[last parcel]

actual quote from that match

[somber axle]

LMFAO

[bitter turtle]

Na we rescued him every time lul

[somber axle]

did he just spend more time being a keyboard warrior

just following you and typing non-stop?

[bitter turtle]

That or trying to aggro extra spawns to kill us

It didn't work

Killed himself pretty effectively though

[somber axle]

my fav moment of someone trying to aggro extra spawns to kill a quickplay squad was when there was a weird Zealot who would join into matches, speedrun to the Daemonhost, aggro it and then dc to force it to kill another player

then reconnect and try to do it again

I saw people talking about them on discord so I entered quickplay to find this creature

[bitter turtle]

A traitor in disguise

[somber axle]

I got matched with him and he did his thing

immediately did my Krak/Chainaxe shenanigans

let him reconnect

then kicked him

the clown always wins

no traitor is going to kill my team

[bitter turtle]

Does that even still work with the DH changw

[somber axle]

probably

it still has to kill 1 player before leaving

disconnecting doesn't work like infiltrate/shroud

most people are not trying to actively grief lobbies though so

[tall torrent]

Mission modifier: heretic within

And ofc it’s a zealot lol

First to fall

[bitter turtle]

I saw that

[tall torrent]

I have a screenshot of soldier 69 saying “I have ass hold on”

[bitter turtle]

Well i would hope so

[tall torrent]

What typing a space between a and ss does

[somber axle]

they're like 1 step away from Khorne level worship anyway with all that shouting about blood and skulls LOL

[cinder zephyr]

So trying to make an infilitrate vet build using all right of tree. Not exactly sure what i should be running. Knee jerk raction is to run combat knife and autogun or something to assist with add clear but not very sure. Any tips?

[tall torrent]

#veteran-class message

[serene bough]

Honestly, going full right tree and bringing powersword will mulch just about every threat in the game

Whenever I want to turn my brain off I just do that

[tall torrent]

If u run knife you just have to accept that you’re not gonna do well vs dense hordes

But ur gonna have insane anti-special/elite/monster

[cinder zephyr]

my main concern of running psword is they have a bit of difficulty with carapce

[bitter turtle]

Vraks 3 + rashad

[bitter turtle]

What

They literally 2 shot carapace

[cinder zephyr]

maybe yours does

[bitter turtle]

3 shot even if poor stats

[tall torrent]

Mk6 power sword is pretty easy to 2 hit crusher

[elder fiber]

Any psword should 3tap crusher with push attack light light

[serene bough]

Mk6 powersword will make short work of crushers

Mk3 maybe not so much

[cinder zephyr]

idk i ran my psword into the psyk and it took 4-5 shots

its a mk3 if thats any concern

[tall torrent]

Use push atk > light combo

[serene bough]

Mk6 is better

[bitter turtle]

Mk3 should still 3 shot

[elder fiber]

Mk3 still 3 taps off pushattack combo p easily

[cinder zephyr]

so push-light-light

[bitter turtle]

Yea

[cinder zephyr]

k lemme give this a shot

takes 6

assuming it doenst lose its powerd up

[bitter turtle]

Uh

[tall torrent]

Can u record

[bitter turtle]

What does your psword look like

[cinder zephyr]

sec

my recording doesnt seem to wanna work

on a2nd attempt took 4

[tall torrent]

What does ur talent tree look like

[bitter turtle]

slaughterer is bad btw

[cinder zephyr]

all right

[tall torrent]

Cuz most good veteran builds take at least 1 between ogryn/monster Dmg and elite Dmg

[bitter turtle]

not that it matters for this

but js

should change that

[cinder zephyr]

im running all right just cause i need the penances associated with them

[tall torrent]

No mk3 needs some talents

[cinder zephyr]

trying to progress all at once

[tall torrent]

U don’t need to do all right to progress the penance associated

[bitter turtle]

are you taking literally every single right tree talent

[tall torrent]

What does ur tree look like

[bitter turtle]

cause you dont need to do that

i dont think serrated blades is doing much for your penances

or your weapon

[last parcel]

post the tall plant

[cinder zephyr]

well i need the penance for infiltrate, close and kill, smoke nades, and weapon specialist

[bitter turtle]

ok

that's fair

but you will still be able to go to other trees

to get important talents

are you also not taking tac awareness (cd reduction on specialist kill)?

cause that is making your penance slower lol

same with no grenade regen

[cinder zephyr]

sec will do some screen caps

[bitter turtle]

also

i would prob switch to elite or cara

instead of flak

flak isnt doing much for you

[tall torrent]

Mk3 needs carapace

For more reliable crusher 3 hit

It’s much lower Dmg than mk6

[bitter turtle]

ok

let me fix your tree for you

js you should not take literally every subnode under infiltrate

[cinder zephyr]

literally never ran it before

[wanton dawn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1196546084177186937/Warhammer_40000__Darktide_2024-01-15_21-05-56.mp4?ex=667291a1&is=66714021&hm=4360cf776a4e4d7a216ed0df5fc96e3914a5304b9203034f9b8faccf65a41a1c&

[pseudo fiber]

New record

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/8e773ef35044bbbd06a7fd022337cd3b.png

1 pt left over

do whatever you want with it

[tall torrent]

@cinder zephyr try this

Can swap CQKZ to reciprocity if u want to play knife

But otherwise I think CQKZ is better 90+% the time

[tall torrent]

Nothing focus target + redirect fire can’t solve

[cinder zephyr]

ill give them both a shot and see which one feels more comfy

[bitter turtle]

they are almost the same tree

[tall torrent]

Yea I just spec into stam regen boost

[bitter turtle]

i would put the last pt in demo team as well prob

if you are doing smoke penance

so its just

do you want 2 charges on stealth or stam delay node

[midnight totem]

-plugs coffee iv into his arm-

[bitter turtle]

cause that's the only main difference

[midnight totem]

Ah... blue stim

[bitter turtle]

also yea put carapace on your sword instead of flak

[cinder zephyr]

so when did slaughterer become poop? was under the impression it was a staple for horder clear

[bitter turtle]

slaughterer is just a worse version of bromentum

[tall torrent]

After BM rework

It’s not as good as BM or sunder

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

slaughterer vs bromentum

[elder fiber]

Yeah its not slaughterer being bad its brutal momentum being busted

[wanton dawn]

SL problem is that it only reliably activate on trash

The only blessing that really help on single target is PC actuallly

BM and sunder happens to be the best cleave option for their respective niche

[somber axle]

Doesn't BM weak spot damage help slightly for hitting breakpoints

It's only a tiny damage increase though afaik

[tall torrent]

McCraime after inventing the sunder meta

[somber axle]

So usually not actually the make or break

[tall torrent]

Yes because PS6’s PA > L4 has high finesse scaling

But it’s not the biggest difference ever

In any case u can spec into melee

[wanton dawn]

25% unyielding is more important anyway

for boss

15% is nice but are you really taking bm for that ?

[bitter turtle]

its tiny

but

actually

it pushes you just over the edge

to 3 tap crusher with 10% elite

probably just take carapace though

mk3 btw

[last parcel]

just always queue with an elite dmg aura psyker

[tall torrent]

I’m a crit aura enjoyer now

Even though it takes me out of playing vent completely

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/vent-gif-18570327

[tall torrent]

17.5% base crit chance is kinda insane

That’s roughly 1 crit out of every 6 crit-able hits

[bitter turtle]

so close

53 dmg off lol

if i take elite + cara mk3 can 2 shot

[tall torrent]

Nothing focus target can’t fix

[last parcel]

time for fire team

[bitter turtle]

Omg ur right fire team

[last parcel]

become fat and slow

[cinder zephyr]

hot damn, so i think im set. Just gotta decide on a pew pew and im set

[last parcel]

shredder autopistol

[tall torrent]

U can never go wrong with mk2 Laspistol imo

That’s the most general purpose good-on-every-class gun if u don’t want to bother with Zarona revolver

[cinder zephyr]

i really wanna move away from revolver just cause its become a bit of a crutch

[tall torrent]

Mk2 Laspistol got ur back

Ghost + dum dum
Maniac/flak/elite/crit chance

Minimal suppression (you always shoot very straight)
Fast ADS move speed
Zero ADS recoil with incredible Hipfire accuracy
Fast sprint move speed
Instant sprint to fire
High crit chance (good synergy with shock trooper)
Doesn’t take that much ammo to use without survivalist
Deals with everything that’s not carapace or mutants well

[bitter turtle]

Since you're trying to finish wep special penanve

I also say laspistol or vraks 3

Both are very nice with wep special and have the precision to hit headshots reliably and encourage you to do so

Wep specialist laspistol might hurt your finger though

If you don't use full auto mod

[somber axle]

just use two fingers

https://tenor.com/view/pog-butterly-click-gif-24629707

Ring finger right click for aiming, middle and pointer finger for shooting

Fast firing on Mk IV Infantry Lasgun and Mk II Laspistol without needing to do funny quick click finger twitch silliness

[elder fiber]

I finally cracked and installed autofire mod just for mk4 lasrifle lol

[somber axle]

Hold mouse like a cryptid for fast firing weapons

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shocked-black-funny-dance-gif-12502396

[tall torrent]

I’d suggest u put MG4 / Vraks 3 / mk2 Laspistol on auto

Everything else tho I feel semi gives more control

[bitter turtle]

i dont full auto v3

even wep specialist doesnt require that much clicking

the guaranteed crit usually downs something in one burst or two anyway

i cant stress enough that its lowkey a great gun for wep specialist tho

[elder fiber]

yeah if I still used mk2 I'd rock it for that too but I mostly stick to mkx b/c its easier on my hands even over holding lmb and I just have some weird cozy attachment to it

[bitter turtle]

vs flak you get a 1k dps boost

[elder fiber]

yeah I can believe it lol

[tall torrent]

Mk10 has higher flak dps than mk2?

[bitter turtle]

no i mean v3

gets a 1k dps boost from having wep specialist up

1.4k vs 2.5k dps shooting into a mauler body

even if you discount the guaranteed crit, the fire rate buff alone is +500 dps

no wep specialist + 1 crit is still only 2k

[tall torrent]

Ah ok

I haven’t bothered with v3 in a while

[bitter turtle]

tbh its a middling gun but its more fun to use than iags

[tall torrent]

Headhunter autoguns are just resource sink and I’d rather spend that on a better Rashad

[hoary horizon]

I put "im still standing" while in the furnace and uh, ngl was the best time ever

[sinful swallow]

Does crit make the whole burst crit?

What's it called in this game, crit stringing?

Can't think of the non TF2 minigun term for it

[bitter turtle]

Yes

Crit string

[austere mica]

Should I drop crit damage or unarmored

[tall torrent]

Crit dmg

[austere mica]

Cool

Any skills I need to make this gun work or just go wild

[hearty panther]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is1rpZeTiBg

[tall torrent]

Suppression immunity, precision strikes, superiority complex, rending strikes, bring it down

[austere mica]

Something like this?

[tall torrent]

Why exe stance

[austere mica]

Because shout is boring and I felt like it

[hearty panther]

hell yea

[fossil badger]

I think this a good build but I’d be looking to get one of the grenade regens

[austere mica]

Not enough points sadly

Actually nevermind

Realized I had the random traversal node next to Iron Will for some reason

[fossil badger]

Haha nice! I didn’t even see that

[austere mica]

Now I have demo team

[coral willow]

i like demoteam

[tall torrent]

I don’t think u need shock trooper with MG4 when u alrdy have survivalist

It’s basically never gonna run out of ammo even without survivalist or shock trooper

[coral willow]

but muh trigger happy

[fossil badger]

I thought so too, but it would be nice not having to reload. Considering no reload speed

[coral willow]

eh

mg4 takes like

no time to reload

[fossil badger]

yeah

[tall torrent]

Also just fyi
MG4 normally doesn’t stagger gunners on headshot
Exe stance gives enough ranged stagger to stagger them on headshot, making u kill them slower than normal (even though it’ll take less headshots to kill)

[coral willow]

too bad thundy is kinda a meme

[cerulean void]

unyielding to maniac?

or swap crit out

[feral bay]

Not sure personally. What's the 'no ammo used with lasgun' thing again? Is that on crit or weakspot hit?

[somber axle]

I'd swap crit to flak personally

[last parcel]

Shock Trooper
on crit

[somber axle]

Body shotting Maulers will suck a little less

[cerulean void]

I shoot em in the knees

[somber axle]

Limb damage does half damage afaik

You want to shoot the chest if you can help it

[cerulean void]

5% crit doesn't really do all that much past headhunter, yeah?

[last parcel]

can't blow out their joints for a mobility kill smh

[somber axle]

Not really. It's not bad to have but imo there are better perks to choose

Unyielding may help you hit a nice breakpoint on Bulwarks and improve your DPS on bosses

[tall torrent]

Not a whole lot of difference
But unyielding isn’t a top pick for infantry Lasguns either

[last parcel]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU oh ok

[feral bay]

Thank you.

Is there any recon lasgun that's torrent, or nah?

. . . Now that I give it literally any thought, if there was, that's probably what the meta would be, because way more ammo.

[last parcel]

can you elaborate on 'torrent'

i don't know any recon lasguns that hook into qbittorrent, for example

[feral bay]

Ah, punch-through? 'Collateral' is the term, I believe. I always call it 'torrent' since that's what it says in the item card.

[last parcel]

oh cleave. mk VIIa has a bit

[feral bay]

Instead of 'precise' or 'versatile'

Hm. Okay. I'll look into it.

[last parcel]

like this?

[feral bay]

Yep

Like the columnus infantry autogun