veteran-class

[serene bough]

Youre insane

[tall torrent]

Honestly tho I think born leader is alr

[grand perch]

well you know what youre doing but i would free 1 point by going krak and having longshot instead

[serene bough]

I guess the other perks aren't really much better

[tall torrent]

Longshot didn’t change breakpoints much

It’s mainly opening salvo + marksman + MF getting the 1 tap breakpoints

[tall torrent]

My hot take is that FTE ≈ born leader most of the time

And that if you play specific builds with high toughness regen, born leader > FTE

[serene bough]

Id grab field improv + something else over serrated

But you must be using mercy killer so it makes sense

Does mg12 suppress enemies well

[tall torrent]

Yea that just depends on ur melee

Although I will say

If u don’t take serrated blade

Take agile engagement instead

Because AE actually sends u over the 1 tap breakpoints too

It’s just nice for consistency sake

[tall torrent]

Let’s just say that it suppresses enemies when you don’t want them to be suppressed

Or maybe that’s teammates suppressing them idk

[serene bough]

I see

[tall torrent]

I think ghost is super high value

Because it allows u to tank shooters without exhilarating takedown

And that’s a 2 point save

[serene bough]

Yeah I use ghost on my mg4

[tall torrent]

I would run ghost on all infantry Lasguns

[rigid pilot]

Ghost is really nice

[tall torrent]

MG4 I’m actually considering ghost + no respite

[rigid pilot]

Just stand your ground and kill shotgunners, reapers, gunners

[serene bough]

My go to is ghost + HH

[tall torrent]

I think only 1a benefits from headhunter enough to warrant using it

And that’s purely to save ammo with shock trooper

[serene bough]

Crits don't push breakpoints as much as it does just give extra procs on shocktroop

[full nacelle]

born leader is lowkey good if you run the right build with it

[tall torrent]

MG4 I’ve yet to run into games where I actually run out, even without shock troop

1a, several games

[serene bough]

You need to spray into walls for half the game to run out of ammo on mg4

[tall torrent]

1a only has like ~330 shots from the spawn ammo

[serene bough]

Reaching 0 ammo is trolling

[tall torrent]

MG4 has like 600+

[hollow ibex]

fuck

[tall torrent]

No u can def run low on it

Well, I don’t play surv with infantry lasguns

Lowest I ever got to was like 200 reserve ammo

And I was shooting at pretty much everything

[serene bough]

I have a build for both surv and fireteam

[tall torrent]

The only build I take surv for is plasma

[serene bough]

But in both cases yeah I magdup

Too satisfying not to

I usually run auras depending on what the team has

Or rather what it doesnt

[tall torrent]

The only thing I need to check is

Whether no respite actually does anything for MG4

Because MG4’s main benefit for me is fast ads move speed & lack of stagger

So it’s actually the best one out of the 3 for landing successive headshots

[serene bough]

Im not sure if it'll stagger much

[tall torrent]

But if no respite only works for enemies in stagger state

Then MG4 gets no dmg boost lol

Worst case scenario I’ll prob go for ghost + HH/BTE

[serene bough]

I find it doesn't really need one

[untold quiver]

best vet ability with revolver?

[serene bough]

MF + all other relevant damage nodes consistently 1 taps trash and 2 taps most ranged threats

[untold quiver]

i am trying to become the john fallout

[serene bough]

You'll need a crit for flak scab gunners sadly

[full nacelle]

shout is broken... but if you're running the agripinna revolver I like Infiltrate

shout also gives you a good "get off me" tool when you're getting swarmed while lining up shots

[untold quiver]

infiltrate sounds funnier, got a build to share?

[full nacelle]

Sure! One sec

[midnight totem]

my two main vet drips

I really like the helmet on the first

too bad it doesn't come in black

[full nacelle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c280412-be25-49f6-b6c7-816b478bffe9/gunslingerassassin

Here ya go!

if you want a more revolver forward build with the Zarona I can show you mine for that as well

[midnight totem]

Shift Leader Primus get

[faint beacon]

This was shockingly easy to do?

[full nacelle]

Yeah... Kind of just happens if you're doing your weeklies

super neat event 🙃 👍

I loved VT2 but I don't think I could go back after experiencing Darktide...

I hope we get some dev love next update

[faint beacon]

eh, crap ton of resources to stockpile may as well

[wild vortex]

I love this game so much but the devs are actual brickheads sometimes

[midnight totem]

Overall, I think Darktide is reasonably balanced

[wild vortex]

is Melk being generous?

(on Zealot, not Vet)

[faint beacon]

There's a handful of thing's I'd say need tweaking personally but they've already stated things I have gripes about so its on a good path so far

[faint beacon]

I mean it works?

[midnight totem]

And that leads to frantic, frenzied fun with a wide combination of skills, weapons, and abilities even at the high difficulties, if not the highest

[faint beacon]

could be massively better but it works seeing its the Spam Lmb

Look crafting reworking is coming here soon, that'll probably freshen the game as well, Hopefully weapons

[midnight totem]

Inspiring barrage should restore toughness for allies in coherency

[somber axle]

It really should

At least it can for Vets with Born Leader

...wait what if you pair Inspiring Barrage and Glory Hunter on Boltgun

objectively weaker for damage than Pinning Fire + Surgical but like

[faint beacon]

you'd be missing out on pinning fire

[somber axle]

would it make for funny squad regen

[full nacelle]

oh shit, clown king's cooking again

[last parcel]

[full nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-let-him-cook-gif-11999534059191155013

[midnight totem]

It'd actually be pretty awesome

Support boltgun build

Hell. It'd be viable

[full nacelle]

the only "problem" I really see is that Boltgun wants exe stance

and you really want that overhealth from shout in a support build

[midnight totem]

Probably. Can't have everything though

But it'd be nice for some defensive blessings to be actually useful

There's few enough of them as it is

[full nacelle]

I am praying that the bolt pistol is less clunky to use 🙏

[rigid pilot]

Bolt pistol should lean into the aoe damage aspect, if not it's just going to be a worse zarona

[full nacelle]

god I would love to be able to tear apart hordes with massive boltgun explosions...

I wish I could make a boltgun build that leaned into its automatic fire that doesn't instantly run out of ammo

using it as a sniper just feels wrong

[last parcel]

powderburn boltpistol

[rigid pilot]

[somber axle]

terrifying barrage boltpistol

[last parcel]

yes

[somber axle]

tbh I'm not sure if Pinning Fire is needed for breakpoints on a Boltgun

I haven't tested that

[full nacelle]

I thought surgical was usually the boltgun blessing?

[last parcel]

let's put a pin in that to test later

[somber axle]

it's definitely better for boss DPS but outside of that I'm not sure if it's helping you kill anything in particular any better during Exe Stance

I can't test yet because I'm wrapping up a Rogue Trader session with friends

but soon

[rigid pilot]

Pinning is great vs bosses but you need to do stuff like shooting a horde once in a while

Nades can also generate pinning stacks

[last parcel]

hmmmmm

[sturdy zephyr]

Impressive

Its a screwgun now

[somber axle]

80% collateral

it can still break Bulwark shields

LMFAO

[sturdy zephyr]

HEscrew

But if me i bring to the full mission test. Maybe work wonder

[last parcel]

wolfer aint gonna see this shit coming

[somber axle]

I remember seeing that Glory Hunter on Plasma goes up to 25% but is only up to 16% on Boltgun

but since Inspiring Barrage exists that might be why

I want to test a funny Born Leader Boltgun build after work tomorrow

too late right now to do much clown science

[full nacelle]

rest now, let those good clown juices flow

[somber axle]

I will soon but first

did you see that silly new ultramarine gamer chair LMFAO

if it was Mechanicus or Imperial Guard it'd be an instant buy for me

but idc that much about Space Marines

fav chapter are Salamanders

idk maybe that will change when I play Space Marine 2 with friends

also wow

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650153785393414144/1245207800695754802/image.png?ex=6657e9a2&is=66569822&hm=7bb83313d83ead7cc688db4f4b72c9ebb87e8ad27e4d6db370485a86d1163f35&

why does the XL have a MINIMUM WEIGHT

I don't weigh anywhere close to 175 lbs

does it just launch me into space if I attempt to sit on it

[rigid pilot]

Minimum weight sounds funny

[terse idol]

it's soooo tacky

[wild vortex]

Probably for the hydraulics, chair sinks a little when you sit on it. It's usually accounted for when designing

[faint beacon]

Minimum weight, My bad I'll add some bricks onto it real quick lmao

[wild vortex]

I'd buy a Warhammer themed SecretLab chair in a heartbeat if I could afford it

[rigid pilot]

Yea but the chair is totally fine without anything sitting in it, unless it does start floating away

But now that I think about it, might be the force required to make the seat go down when adjusting

[wild vortex]

Basically, if you're not that weight and are the minimum recommended height, your feet might not properly touch the floor because the piston won't sink enough with your weight

Which goes against the whole "ergonomics" thing

Chair height is adjustable but there's a minimum limit, due to piston config

[somber axle]

I'm not heavy enough for the chair wow

and it's for a legitimate reason

[wild vortex]

More common than you'd think lol. My tiny 4'11 wife could never sit on my gaming chair

[somber axle]

I'm not tall enough to use an XL chair anyway

[somber axle]

dude my rule for buying computer chairs has usually been hunting for whatever is good in offices

the crazy people who spend weird amounts of time working in front of computers are looking for maximum comfort to make their awful jobs suck less

no gamer colours or logos

just comfort

[wild vortex]

Most office chairs aren't that great, but most of them are not terrible at least

[somber axle]

it's worked well so far for getting comfy chairs that are not unreasonably priced

[wild vortex]

Unless of course you work in fucking VC or investment banking and sit your rich ass in Herman Millers all day

[somber axle]

I had an office chair that was really, really comfy but after a few years it was shredded by my cat and needed to be replaced

my new chair is smaller but feels nice still

that chair looks like a fun thing to gift though

I could give it to a friend for Christmas or something

[frank basin]

xxxl fit for Cassieoh

[faint beacon]

I've been using one of those foldable stools for the longest time and I straight up haven't complained since I've used it lmao

[somber axle]

you mean Entree the Giant?

[somber axle]

I've got a friend who has ditched her computer chair in favour of using an exercise ball who SWEARS up and down it is helping her posture and is comfy

but I know there's no way she's comfortable sitting on that thing

[faint beacon]

If I get uncomfortable I literally just grab a pillow and put it on it, solves the issues instantly

[finite carbon]

This conversation reminds me of that one Cyanide and Happiness comic

[hallow parrot]

not even mad

[somber axle]

OH HEY SPEEDLOAD

[hallow parrot]

that's how it came out from Hadron's, straight from grey

so ynow, still workable but I mean not bad

[somber axle]

wanna see the fastest reload in the game?

https://gyazo.com/6060ec5262d99575e031bd14ce25f358

it's only 27 frames

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486811369837166592/1245140174862553128/image.png?ex=6657aaa7&is=66565927&hm=d4d9b8a4101203adf887dffd1b416799cad4b49ecf81d6612444b0c578590e64&

[hallow parrot]

yeah I saw another video of you earlier

didn't know it was yours but I'd recognize that music

[somber axle]

I have been engaging in clown science a bit

oh yeah that's Soda City Funk

but I set it to 1.25 speed on youtube

one of my fav songs tbh

[sinful swallow]

My first 550, I had to make sacrifices for rating

[somber axle]

it's ok I know how you feel

I've got a 550 Agripina Infantry Autogun but it has Terrifying Barrage

but it's an infantry autogun so it hardly matters

it's still going to shred things

[somber axle]

anyway here is the music if you're curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhIScvlFn2w

it's not always circus music

[sinful swallow]

Lmao

[faint beacon]

My first ever 550 is on Zealot

My least played fucking class

Lmao

[somber axle]

sometimes the Emperor makes mistakes

but it's weird it happens this often

[last parcel]

there are no mistakes

except me

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-painting-yas-wisdom-art-gif-4514528

Hadron handing us bricks

https://tenor.com/view/clown-mrrogers-tv-mask-kids-gif-5366832

all of us showing up again to give her another gun to turn into a brick right after

[last parcel]

us making brickonade

[faint beacon]

20k+ resources instantly vanishing for one slightly above average Shovel

[somber axle]

at least the Skulls event has handed out a nice amount of plasteel and diamantine

soon we'll have enough bricks to keep the Big Bad Space Wolf out of our house

[sleek garden]

the agripiinaa infantry autogun feels really good

im surprised ive never tried it before

i use the graia all the time and always wished it fired a bit slower and today i grabbed a good one on a whim

double salvo blessings so i can get my 40 extra headshot damge

[hallow parrot]

I've been using it for a while and yeah it's pretty awesome. I'm trying a graia now and I'm not sure which one I like better

[sleek garden]

i like them both

[hallow parrot]

like both are good at all ranges but the graia works better on close quarters. Somewhat.

[sleek garden]

i think the graia is better if you get in the thick of it more often since it fires faster but i play a little more passively

the difference in damage feels pretty minimal

[hallow parrot]

yeah the agri is like a braced that you can aim lol

(and yes I'm aware there's agri braceds, but the IAG is still kickass on hipfire)

I was just on a pug on a maelstrom malice power matrix with lights out and like 6 bosses dropped on us through the mission, two of those in pairs

and it was incredible lol

[twin cipher]

Has this coat dropped yet

[inland orchid]

never leave a battle brother behind

if u dyin we all dyin

[woeful ibex]

Me when I play as the Ogryn Main and Disobey Orders to save me Pals and Boss

[neat stratus]

I literally went years not remembering to turn XMP on in my bios 💀

[late hatch]

I had a mate who had his monitor plugged into his mobo instead of his 1080ti for almost a year

[neat stratus]

Ok well at least Im not that dumb

I jumped from a consistent 40-50 to 80-90

FPS

[grand perch]

Except when the last part of hab dreyko starts going to shit (on the collapsing bridge). Then it's every reject for themselves

[neat stratus]

Mind that my monitor is 75 hz (is gud enuf)

And yes I did remember to set it to that in windows

[grand perch]

Rather have someone bolt for the exit and win than fail the mission

[junior needle]

All the IAG's are doing pretty good currently

Obviously one doing the best

[neat stratus]

Nevermind XMP is bad, my pc crashes because of it lmao

[junior needle]

There's different xmp profiles

[neat stratus]

I just get the 1 as far as I could find

[junior needle]

Hmm, should be 1 and 2

[neat stratus]

My PC is running on 2019-18 hardware, likely a reason

[junior needle]

You can also adjust your ram timings manually if you wanted

xmp is just an overclock preset

[neat stratus]

Yeah but given that its dinosaur tech by today's age I dont think its the best of ideas

[jaunty sphinx]

Hey so I've been playing other games for a few weeks, what even is this event?

Like nothing on the steam page says anything

[oblique orbit]

shoot head get money

[jaunty sphinx]

I see

Gives me an excuse to log in again

[hallow parrot]

😔

[finite carbon]

Grinding mats for the itemisation update that's (maybe/maybe not) coming in late June.

Dats all I got

[finite carbon]

What a gamer

[grand perch]

Penance: denied

[jaunty sphinx]

Cool I hope the itemization update isn't ass so I don't drop this game again

I miss this game but not enough to put up with the current itemization so I'll just grind during the event with the good rolls I've got

[hallow parrot]

One thing I'll say, I'm getting insanely low damage taken numbers considering it's malice

but you'll be running an amazing mission and that lil barrel round the corner be like 😘

[finite carbon]

That's why you blow up all, barrels

[rigid pilot]

It's such a common thing now that people start boss arenas by blowing up all the barrels

[hallow parrot]

VoC makes on overwatch so so much more viable though, I shouldn't be complaining

[vivid silo]

Just wait till it shows 0 health damage taken, yet you still fail. Ever notice when dogs pounce near you, somtimes you get the hitmarker as if you took damage? Yeah, that discounts the no health damage taken penance.

[grand perch]

You sure? They specifically fixed dog pounces doing 1 corruption damage a long time ago because of that issue

[vivid silo]

Ah, I haven't gone for that penance in a while, so I might have missed that.

[forest breach]

sadly no, only the lamer commissar jacket with those pauldrons.

[rocky jacinth]

I'm starting to feel like not even AM has enough enemies for me to kill

I want like 40 ragers leaping at me at all times, make that corner with the kill feed look like a Japanese slot machine

[oak gorge]

the veteran watching the ogryn slap every single barrel on the way to objective (they killed themselves and the psyker in the process)

[tame lodge]

That's what wiped my team twice yesterday, I hate pack of ragers

[sturdy zephyr]

Whats most effective again maniac (without perk)?

[bitter turtle]

probably ciag or ilas

very high maniac modifiers

[sturdy zephyr]

Nice!

[agile forge]

Plasma good vs all killfeed targets too

Shredder is good vs maniac and shit vs all else lol

[junior needle]

Shred is only egregiously bad against flak

Well, apart from the usual carapace

But flak is the most common armor type so uh

[blazing cargo]

Is Weapon Specialist a thing or meme keystone? Because tbh i hate tagging

[tame lodge]

It's a thing, pretty popular with the Zarona revolver

But not exclusive to it

[blazing cargo]

Would that be good to pair with shout blitz?

[tame lodge]

Yes

[blazing cargo]

Yes thank you so much, just what i need to bus

[tame lodge]

It will help you with the melee aspect of Weapon Specialist

[rocky jacinth]

probably the best keystone

goes with every melee weapon and almost any gun, particularly if they greatly benefit from crits and have a quick draw

[sturdy zephyr]

How good is it pair with laspistol?i found it really good draw,dps and decent anti special.

[junior needle]

Keep in mind that the crit only lasts for a single shot

[sturdy zephyr]

Ahh i miss that one

[junior needle]

It does give you fire rate, but that only increases dps and not ammo efficiency or breakpoints

The ping keystone is the most generally useful for ranged weapons

[blazing cargo]

So its like a ''melee and shot every now and then to keep buffs'' in short?

[junior needle]

WS is best leveraged on something like revolver or even plasma

Where you can whip it out quickly for one taps and go back to melee

[sturdy zephyr]

Ive try plasma. Its really good since the penetration.

[junior needle]

Plasma is top three gun in the game

with revolver and ciag

Zarona revolver that is

[sturdy zephyr]

Ciag = the columnus right?

[junior needle]

yes, the columnus iag

[agile forge]

Note that one crit can be several crits for some weapons

Eg CIAG

[midnight totem]

I like weapon specialist with vraks 3 headhunter

[sturdy zephyr]

Explain please for me? Meaning few burst?

[midnight totem]

Crit strings

Every gun has a crit string modifer

In where, if they crit, the next x amount of bullets will also be a crit

[sturdy zephyr]

I see.

[junior needle]

Every automatic gun*

And burst fires also do this currently

[agile forge]

So CIAG for example has a crit string of 4

On top of its crits being very strong

[sturdy zephyr]

4 straight crits

[agile forge]

Of course, this is a hidden modifier

Why would we want to know this incredibly powerful bonus some guns have lmao

[sturdy zephyr]

Impressive someone manage to dig that info

[agile forge]

Crit strings are observable tbf

[hearty panther]

you just count tbh

[junior needle]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2892198053

Or look at this

Oh neat, heavy stubbers have crit strings of 6 now

That's new

[bitter turtle]

its good

i run laspis/knife wep specialist

[midnight totem]

That just means there are some guns with a crit string of 0

[bitter turtle]

very rarely is a weapon going to benefit from crit+fire rate both

even revolver doesnt care about the fire rate

as long as it can leverage one well it is a good keystone

laspis sees a fairly big increase in fire rate

i think the only gun (i play) that leverages both buffs is v3 but that's about it

[trim hemlock]

That’s been the case for a very long time, so it’s not very new

[junior needle]

When did that change happen?

[trim hemlock]

IDK, I feel like it’s always been a Crit string of 6

Or at least since P13

[junior needle]

The fire rate is ok but I'd consider it inferior to damage boosts due to not adjusting breakpoints and also not improving ammo efficiency

[bitter turtle]

laspistol doesnt really have trouble with ammo efficiency

and the way you play the gun is spam for ghost procs anyway

not really playing around bps

the guaranteed crit helps dunk a single enemy anyway with the high finesse values

[empty plover]

Does covering fire apply to yourself?

[bitter turtle]

focus target is meme on it at least either way

if not wep special then you should be running MF

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/black-prior-for-honor-bow-gif-24733510

[midnight totem]

Oh hey for honor

[junior needle]

I'm speaking generally, and opinions on whether something is "gud enough" vary considerably

[midnight totem]

I should reinstall that

[junior needle]

nope

Also bad talent

[empty plover]

SADGE

[bitter turtle]

its a lasweapon that isnt recon so shocktrooper erases any real ammo issues

[empty plover]

im looking for something to ggive a bit more sustain to my ranged vet

[junior needle]

Because its activation is shooting into melee chaffe your team is already clearing

[bitter turtle]

if it applied to yourself

it would probably be the single best talent on the tree

[junior needle]

You mean it's a lasweapon that isn't total dogshit on a baseline

[empty plover]

I'm playing with brauto exe stance

[hallow parrot]

recon lasers did nothing wrong

[junior needle]

Recons are good boys, fatshark just hates them

[slow spade]

Multilaser when?

[hallow parrot]

They're my comfort weapon. Like I'm not good with them but I'm about as good with them than an IAG

[junior needle]

It has been awhile since I used a laspistol but it felt way more ammo hungry than the ilas 1/4

[hallow parrot]

granted, that probably speaks more of how shit I am with an IAG than good with a recon

[junior needle]

They handle well and subjectively feel nice

But their numbers are dogshit

[hallow parrot]

but honestly I don't find them like an absolute lost cause, and worth trying out at least

[junior needle]

Never use the 2

It's the worst one, easily the lowest dps gun in the game

[hallow parrot]

I personally only find the mk6 usable

[bitter turtle]

i unironically hold down left click with full auto m od nearly the entire game

maybe go red a couple of times

if some gungryn is hooving up ammo

[junior needle]

The ammo goblin has appeared

[bitter turtle]

rly not an issue

[midnight totem]

They are pretty ammo hungry

[tame lodge]

I'm more of a 7a myself

[junior needle]

6d technically has the highest potential dps but it requires you to take onslaught to exceed the 7a

7a will perform better than the 6d without it

[hallow parrot]

yeah again I'm not exactly going auric damnation

[slow spade]

Sedition 💪

[hallow parrot]

to be honest, I jumped into IAGs before going heresy so I'm not even sure how they'd cut it there

[junior needle]

Iag's are doing very good

Ciag is the best automatic in the game

[tame lodge]

I've been seeing more recons on Auric than on normal damnation

[junior needle]

Truly insane numbers

[hallow parrot]

something I'll say about recons, while I don't feel markedly worse than with IAGs, ammo management is kind of a pain in the ass

and shock trooper ain't worth it

[bitter turtle]

recon is ok vs iag until maniac come into equation

i play it occasionally for memes

[junior needle]

Shocktrooper is essential for it. Also, here's a visual representation of the power gap between the two.

[bitter turtle]

rly the worst part is when you have to shoot flamers and shit

against flak its manageable

[sturdy zephyr]

It is. But as long no other greedy and ammo wise. It should not be a problem(depends on level intensity)

[bitter turtle]

7a ammo is ok

[junior needle]

It's very much a problem in aurics, for your team

If you're an ammo goblin you can subjectively be fine

[bitter turtle]

was playing with number cat a few games w/ it, didnt really have to hoof up too much ammo

[hallow parrot]

checking at my EOG stats, even with the +crit on weakspot, I'm landing like maybe 80 crits a game, which is barely one magazine. I dunno.

[junior needle]

Your stats may be showing your effective crit rate instead of the actual number of crits you have

[hallow parrot]

I'm going by Scoreboard which I think just lists the raw hits?

[junior needle]

Not sure what it does by default, I used an adjusted scoreboard

[hallow parrot]

but it's true that it feels like I'm lightning more enemies on fire than just 80 hits out of like 500 weakspots

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/1efa122c7fd5ff072123a6e058c79ec4.jpg

7a game with numbercat (on zeal)

i think ammo consumption for 7 is ok

cleave helps a lot

we even had a gungryn memelord with 10/6 pickups

it rly just feels shit into maniacs is all

hence the lower special kills vs numbercat

[junior needle]

7a unusually has an unscuffed unyielding modifier

[bitter turtle]

feels like it takes an eternity to even shoot down flamer

[junior needle]

The other two variants have shit unyielding too

6d has bad baseline modifiers to everything

[hallow parrot]

all I can say is, I tried a mk6 with and without shock troop, and it didn't feel like a huge difference for me. Granted, in malice.

[bitter turtle]

well

[junior needle]

malice is uh

[hallow parrot]

3

[bitter turtle]

anything works in malice

[junior needle]

Weenie hut jr difficulty

[hallow parrot]

yeah lol

[junior needle]

Here's a visual representation of how much you'll crit with just headhunter though

On a single target

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/4103772b3551f08bd240e5dbe725c33c.png

iirc the tree was smthing like this

for 7

forgot what melee though

[junior needle]

Even without a 5% crit perk or 5% crit from the tree, it's a lot

Assuming you can beam heads reliably

MF is an odd pick for recon

[hallow parrot]

do you know the name of this mod?

[junior needle]

loadout config

You can find it in the modding discord only

[hallow parrot]

oh okay

[sturdy zephyr]

Okay just tested 7a eith WS so u get 4string crits

With*

[junior needle]

7a recon?

It only has 2

Every recon only has two, so you got lucky there and crit immediately again after it ended

[sturdy zephyr]

Hmm mybe my mistake

You arw correct maybe my crits

[junior needle]

Conveniently I have darktide open

You can see it happen here

[sturdy zephyr]

Im just testing whats you guys been discussing so just sharing

[bitter turtle]

finesse values are low, yes, but you double dip on it bc crits are fairly common + headshots

in terms of actual dmg values

fully stacked MF even on recon is = to 5 focus 5 redirect

except you can keep the former with full uptime

also 20% rending meme

[junior needle]

I assumed it was primarily for the rending meme

[bitter turtle]

its both

[junior needle]

I'd recommend picking up the 5% crit node

[bitter turtle]

i find it meh

but i always found 5% crit roll on recon to be meh

even when people were doing it on pre nerf

[junior needle]

It's a consistent boost to ammo efficiency across any target type

[bitter turtle]

like i said

i dont rly have a problem with ammo on 7a

so i dont really care about 5% more ammo efficiency

[junior needle]

It's more than that effectively because strangs

[bitter turtle]

i'd rather take something that actually adds significant dmg

at that point i'd sooner run deadshot

which is less meme on 7 than it is on 6

[junior needle]

You can, but you'd need to take dnd and stam curios to effectively leverage it

[bitter turtle]

i never run dnd even for deadshot lul

if i did take it i would be taking focus +target down

but its losing dmg from losing MF to get more dmg from deadshot + have to play a dumb minigame with my stamina

would rather just take MF

either way my take is generally i dont believe 5% crit is especially valuable on recon

whether you take it or not, someone who shoots into horde with 6d is going to run dry either way

better to just make the gun actually do dmg

its the same principle with running onslaught

4 pts just to do something pointless instead of just making the gun actually do dmg

[junior needle]

More damage is also more ammo efficiency

But it depends on how you're setting up your tree

It is undoubtedly quite valuable for shocktrooper leveraging, subjective opinions on what constitutes "good enough" ammo efficiency aside

I'd have taken it over the nade regen on kill

[bitter turtle]

i mean

even if im generous

and say ignoring headhunter and how it factors into avg crit calculation

then its a 10% boost in ammo efficienecy

its still more than twice as bad as fully loaded in terms of ammo efficiecny

and i already think fully loaded is a mid talent

[junior needle]

What's fully loaded?

[bitter turtle]

not that u have a choice to take it or not

25% more ammo

in reality its less than 10% more ammo anyway

bc headhunter has a smaller effect the more crit you have

[junior needle]

That's fair, but it also gives you more damage as well. It's also not supposed to be stand out as a connecting node so it having larger value is very coincidental

[bitter turtle]

we already know how shit 5% crit is as a dmg boost

no gun ever wants it as a perk for real

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, if it weren't for shocktrooper it wouldn't be a consideration

[bitter turtle]

also whether or not its a connecting node doesnt really change the value calculus

if its worth spending 1 pt out of the way to grab it

in any case, 5% MS and 10% melee are connecting nodes too

but i definitely value them enough to build around reaching them

[junior needle]

10% melee is unusually big

Usually 5%

[midnight totem]

Melee vet op

[slow spade]

Weapon specialist + psword UwU

[midnight totem]

Attach the bayonet, dust off the power sword, pocket your shovels, we're sending the Chaos filth back to the Warp

[tall torrent]

depends

laspistol and columnus IAG gets some use out of it

[bitter turtle]

its more usable but idk if i would take it over 25% dmg perks

[tall torrent]

I think it's roughly equal tbh

because laspistol crit weakspot is like 900 smth per shot

[slow spade]

Me stacking crit on my plasma gun UwU

[tall torrent]

at least for mk2 I consider them equal

mk10 yea no

[bitter turtle]

even if it does double dmg to crit, you're still looking at a 5% dmg boost on avg (+100% dmg, 5% or the time)

at least for laspistol

[slow spade]

That's only true for unlucky people

[tall torrent]

which works for all enemies compared to a perk that may change breakpoint for 1~2 enemies

[bitter turtle]

in that case you might as well just run 10% elite

[bitter turtle]

lucky people dont need 5% crit to crit every time :^)

[tall torrent]

10% elite doesn't change breakpoints iirc

[bitter turtle]

i dont really c onsider bps for mk2 laspistol personally

[slow spade]

True, crit bad you've convinced me UwU

[bitter turtle]

it takes enough shots to kill most things that critting or hitting the body is going to be inevitable

and then bp talk becomes meaningless

[radiant chasm]

The big popular perks cover multiple high value enemies

[tall torrent]

ik

[radiant chasm]

Meanwhile stuff like yea, infested is useless

[tall torrent]

flak is just simple dps boost vs mauler & scab rager

it doesn't change BPs for scab gunner or shotgunner (unless u count crit weakspot with dum dum stacks)

[bitter turtle]

also not a huge deal, but imo, wep specialist laspistol is the best wsay to play it

and the guarantee crit lowers the value of taking 5% crit perk even further

[tall torrent]

true

[bitter turtle]

and if you take MF then my argument of variable dmg comes into play even further

[tall torrent]

also I asked kuli
mobility stat roll impacts ur weapon's ADS move speed

[bitter turtle]

u never know what stack of MF + if you hit a weakpoint + if you crit all come into play

[tall torrent]

even though it's not stated in game

[bitter turtle]

so thinking about bps is rather meaningless when it still takes like 3 shot min to kill most things

[tall torrent]

so I just write "fast ADS move speed" in guide now

[bitter turtle]

i see

but yeah idk i think bp is more relevant conversation for things like plasma/v7/bolter/etc where you realistically expect to take no more than 2 bullet to kill anything

laspis is just spammy as hell

[tall torrent]

fast ADS move speed:
MG4 infantry lasgun
both laspistols

instant sprint to fire:
MG4 infantry lasgun
All recon lasguns
Mk2 laspistol
Mk5 infantry autogun

very funnily, Mk10 laspistol does not have instant sprint to fire

[bitter turtle]

rip

[tall torrent]

stagger also throws breakpoints out of the window

if a gun needs multiple successive headshots to get a breakpoint but it staggers on headshot

the breakpoint often just ends up being unreliable

[white minnow]

hh9 moment

[tall torrent]

HH9 is actually not the worst for that

Mk1 IAG is by far the worst in my experience

recoil + stagger + suppression

nightmare combo

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/shannon-sharpe-undisputed-nope-funny-face-gif-536487951695337499

[hallow parrot]

lmao

[midnight totem]

When you are an ogryn at heart

[gilded wraith]

What does "instant sprint to fire" mean?

[midnight totem]

Means you can stopped sprinting and shoot immediately

[tall torrent]

means there's next to no animation delay between sprinting and pressing shoot (hipfire)

makes running & gunning easier

[sturdy zephyr]

Hes gonna dig deep. One good swoop back to hel.

[limber lance]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9c28f90e-b08d-40cf-b744-987ef502a052/hellbore-mk1

[hallow parrot]

pain

3 pains to be exact

ha, I still got it.

I didn't see it said "melee damage" in particular, that would have helped a lot

[somber axle]

Nice!

[somber axle]

This explains part of my love for how the recons feel

Also explains why Mk X Laspistol feels so weird compared to the Mk II

[umbral garnet]

I remember the pain this penance was.

And how utterly useless I felt for my team lmfao

[hallow parrot]

VoC makes it so much easier than it was at launch imo

[umbral garnet]

Preach.

[hallow parrot]

VoC, and OfB, and all the dummy reload speed bonuses I'm packing

[oak gorge]

soldiers of the imperium - would a shotgun build be best suited to vet or zealot

[umbral garnet]

Zealot, I feel, by a mile.

BUT shotguns are serviceable on vets.

As any weapon ought to be.

[hallow parrot]

With vet you can get a lot of reload speed bonuses, which is good for spamming special shells

buut one might argue that vet has better options than shotties

[umbral garnet]

Indeed. The slug shotgun feels quite nice, I have a build with it.

[hallow parrot]

I still think they can be really good in the right hands

[umbral garnet]

The sound is also phenomenal.

"THONK!"

[oak gorge]

i personally don't like plasma and thought a shotgun build could be funny

[umbral garnet]

Splat

[hallow parrot]

and they're really good at all ranges, regardless of what videogame shotguns might lead you to think

except maybe the kentraels but ynow

[umbral garnet]

Oh, it can certainly be funny.

[hallow parrot]

even the lawbringer can nail a fool in the head from a respectable distance

[umbral garnet]

I love sending a gunner careening off of an edge when my slug clocks them in the chest.

[hallow parrot]

I say absolutely try them, I liked them but I prefer IAGs for now myself

as someone who enjoys what's considered to be a thoroughly trash tier weapon class, unless you're going auric or something like that you can kinda do whatever in this game.

[umbral garnet]

Haven't used my Columnus build in a while and recently jumped into pshyk with it. I used a combat stimm and I cannot believe I killed a crusher in like 10 bullets flat.

Deadeye goes hard.

[hallow parrot]

I just discovered this extended weapon configuration mod and god damn it makes the game so much more enjoyable

particularly being able to choose sights and flashlights at discretion

[umbral garnet]

I tried it out, it was neat, but it was just a bit too buggy for me.

Maybe not buggy, but ugly works too I suppose lmfao

[hallow parrot]

🖐️ 😩 👌

that's a graia, btw

[pseudo fiber]

there's a thing in teh way

[hallow parrot]

I know, I put it there

[last parcel]

that's a war crime

[hallow parrot]

there's gunporn and then there's obstructive gunporn

[umbral garnet]

I saw some truly horrendous, hideous fucking guns when I had that mod installed.

[hallow parrot]

lmao if you have randomization on it gets really really silly

I got a lawbringer you could easily fit into a pocket

[wild vortex]

shotgun with sniper scope and giant sword for a bayonet

[umbral garnet]

"Oh hey, look, a lasgun."
"It's a shotgun..."
"It has a sniper scope."
"It has no stock."

[acoustic carbon]

Veterans; would you say the additional coherency radius this node brings worth it and is notable?

[somber axle]

Let me help you make this decision

[umbral garnet]

It's definitely useful.

Being able to be more spread out and still get the passive of your aura affecting everyone

[somber axle]

You can do this on Vet

Or

[umbral garnet]

A good team tool, also lets Survivalist proc more frequently as your teammates kill specials blah blah blah

[somber axle]

You can do this on Zealot

Agripina Shotgun is one of my fav guns to use on Vet tbh and it works even in higher difficulties

If you like a gun, use it and have fun. Don't let the idea of better guns force you into exclusively playing meta

[umbral garnet]

The chuckle of "I just murdered so many people"

[somber axle]

Meta weapons ARE strong. They're meta for a reason. But pretty much all of the guns are viable for Auric Damnation

[hearty panther]

meta is also boring as shit and i will judge u

[somber axle]

I even took a Shredder Autopistol into Auric Damnation recently using a funny talent set up and it was fine

[thick kestrel]

in fairness, would absolutely shred a lot of the specials (pun intended)

[somber axle]

Anything goes as long as you're willing to learn a weapon's strengths and weaknesses

[umbral garnet]

Yes. I like to say, it's completely possible to beat an Auric Damnation run with grey weapons.

Doesn't matter, as long as you know how to use it and like using it.

[thick kestrel]

like, the Shredder AC isn't great... but it's more down to it's strengths being kind of janky post-nerf

[slow spade]

Me bringing a gunogryn into a melee onky maelstrom UwU

[thick kestrel]

if you can lean into that Jank? you can make it do some fun stuff

[somber axle]

If I can make a Recon Mk VId and a Shredder Autopistol work in Auric Damnation, you can make anything you like work too

[umbral garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/kim-kardashian-kim-kardashian-phone-stare-gif-23713633

[slow spade]

Try something new like plasms + psword with VOC

C:

[wild vortex]

what the fuck

[somber axle]

You hurt me immensely. But I will still encourage you to follow your dreams even if you're living my nightmares

[wild vortex]

knife benefits from weapon cleave?

[somber axle]

Yes LMFAO

Zealot knife throw benefits from Manstopper

[umbral garnet]

Ah, yes, very original.

[somber axle]

Infinite cleave blessing

[slow spade]

C:

[umbral garnet]

I say that, yet I have a Zarona Revolver and Rashad Axe build.

The other "yawn" build.

It just feels fun being able to split skulls at rapid pace with weapon spec

[somber axle]

I have a weapon specialist build using the Mk II Laspistol for medic memes

Shoot fast

[umbral garnet]

MEDIC GAMING

[somber axle]

Shoot really, really fast

[thick kestrel]

Las-pistol is just delightfully dakka :>

and... yeah... I can kind of see that?

[umbral garnet]

I'm still blown away at the disgusting power of the new knife.

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/medics-kritzkrieg-sfm-mag-magnet-medic-kritzkrieg-gif-21691818

[thick kestrel]

I'd want to reach WAAAAYYYY over to the other side of the tree for the weakpoint nodes admittedly >_>

[somber axle]

Yeah she's really nice and I love Knife mobility

[thick kestrel]

stab o_o

[umbral garnet]

Being able to kill a Crusher with a knife in less than a second

And I don't even use Focus Target, I just put +Carapace on it.

[somber axle]

Call her the brave little can opener

[umbral garnet]

Poke poke poke poke

I was able to two shot it at some point with 2 crits.

Got me to the max of 3600 dps

[somber axle]

I wonder if it is at all possible to 1HKO a Crusher using Knife if you set up talents for every possible damage bonus you can reach

[umbral garnet]

I think it's very likely.

But, I will still forever be loyal to my shovel.

[somber axle]

Would probably need a perfect or close to perfect Knife roll with very high Damage, Finesse, Penetration and First Target + Carapace and Elite perks

[last parcel]

that's why you put a knife at the bottom of your shovel for double action

[umbral garnet]

Mk3 my beloved.

[hearty panther]

i dont believe its doable without some level of set-up

[umbral garnet]

I think that's the shovel I use.

[hearty panther]

ie precog proc'd and uncanny strike

[umbral garnet]

True.

But the fact you could still do it with a knife is insane.

[hearty panther]

yea uncanny strike is a silly blessing

[umbral garnet]

If that's the slug shotgun, maybe a +damage perk depending on the enemy type you might struggle with.

If you can oneshot both gunners, which is my usual goal with that shotty, I'd be happy.

The blessing where it gives you a buff when every bullet hits an enemy is also very nice. Can't remember the name.

Because the slug is just one round so it's a confirmed proc

Oh

Lmao I didn't read.

💀

[tall torrent]

Probably
Crit weakspot hit
Executor max stacks, uncanny max stacks
CQKZ + Marksman + FTE + surprise attack active
Bring it down + superiority complex
Precision strikes + desperado + fire team + 10% melee DMG + 5% melee DMG + agile engagement
+carapace & +elite

[last parcel]

ooo i forgot about marksman

[tall torrent]

The thing is that

Usually, with executor max stacks + uncanny max stacks + desperado + precision strikes + bring it down + superiority complex + 5% melee dmg + elite is around 1800 crit weakspot dmg

So u need to figure out a way to push it to 2x to what it already does

[somber axle]

This would be fun to test in the Psykanium

[tall torrent]

If u have precog up in psykanium it prob hits higher Crit weakspot dmg than executor

[last parcel]

it was
https://streamable.com/6oup4v

[somber axle]

LMFAO

ok yeah it can 1HKO

[umbral garnet]

There she is.

[candid agate]

im having too much fun as gun psyker, i want to be a veteran main

[steep nexus]

Alright, who the frog is saying the recon lasgun is weak

[slow spade]

Everyone that uses it

Just because you can use it doesn't mean its not objectively weak

[steep nexus]

Y'all don't understand its value, it's a very powerful weapon

But the problem is, nobody is building the right skill tree for it

[slow spade]

Are you really about to go into the Vet channel and claim NO ONE here has tried to make the laser machine gun good?

[steep nexus]

I'm about to claim that you've failed where I have succeeded!

Because I will not take the slander on my boy any longer!

[slow spade]

The Recon Curse claims another soul 😞

[steep nexus]

Nooooo!!!

I'm not coping!

[last parcel]

[steep nexus]

You have to hear me out

They'll kill me

[slow spade]

The last time someone tried to claim Recon was good and no one made a good build it devolved into a 2+ hour rant from both sides

It was hilarious

[steep nexus]

I will make it hilarious again, but they will take me seriously this time!!

I swear!

[slow spade]

#veteran-class message

[steep nexus]

Is there an image of the build they're running before I make a fool of myself?

[slow spade]

Probably

It was months ago let me see

[last parcel]

too late for that

all of us recon users are clowns

[steep nexus]

I'm sticking to my guns

[last parcel]

then you will die braver than most

[steep nexus]

Nice quote

[steep nexus]

MID

MID

MID

UNBELIEVABLY MID

[slow spade]

This was the build the recon user posted

[steep nexus]

SO MID

Someone give me pic perms I got this

[somber axle]

Wait was that me or someone else

[slow spade]

I'm not even sure how you get image perms

[slow spade]

Someone else

[last parcel]

you talk

[pseudo fiber]

talk until red

[steep nexus]

They're going to have me killed before I can deliver my important message!!

[somber axle]

I mean I can do my clown rant again if you want

A clown is always prepared to perform

[somber axle]

Ok here I go gimme a sec

[steep nexus]

Unironically, recon lasgun is highly effective against all targets with my build

[slow spade]

The Kovine fellow

[steep nexus]

But I can't post it yet

[last parcel]

wasn't that the guy who said revolver was shit because he was dumping all of his shots into poxwalkers

[steep nexus]

You spend about 20 ammo to kill a crusher without your ability

You shred all specials and elites

[steep nexus]

You annihilate monstrosities

[somber axle]

This old gif used 13 ammo

[slow spade]

Not sure, he made a lot of "interesting" claims

[somber axle]

I can do it in as little as 7 ammo on my Recon

[slow spade]

But had an inefficient build

[steep nexus]

I can only do it down in like 10 with focus fire, zamn

[steep nexus]

But to be fair I'm not using the mark ability because I do not like it

[somber axle]

This is the build

This is the old Recon I used to make that gif

I have a better one now and it is why I can kill in 7 ammo spent if I am lucky

[slow spade]

Sadly I can't join in as I haven't tried making a recon build :c

[agile forge]

What's the consumption for a dreg rager? Just curious

[somber axle]

The crit strings usually mean I spend 8-10 but it CAN be as little as 7 ammo if everything plays perfectly

[pseudo fiber]

I like that this is the only chat that can give the recon lasgun a tiny... tiny maybe chance of being good.

[steep nexus]

Yeah, we went a little differently with our builds, glad to see they're both pretty effective though

[somber axle]

I would test this but I am on the way to work and will be unable to play for the next 9 hours

[slow spade]

To be fair, if Vet can't make it good then idk what could

[steep nexus]

I can check mine rn

[somber axle]

Btw

[steep nexus]

I will forever shill for my boy

[somber axle]

Scoreboard because why not

[slow spade]

Gunpsyker + recon UwU

[somber axle]

Vet on the far right was using Plasma

The other Vet was a Columnus Infantry Autogun user

This was a good group

These were not bad players

This was only a Damnation, not an Auric Damnation for context

But if you check ammo tins/packs grabbed vs damage and kills my Recon outperformed both of them on nearly every single metric

[slow spade]

I already knew because they had decent plasteel picked up UwU

[steep nexus]

About seven ammo consumption for a dreg rager

Can be way less if you just give a quick burst and then let him burn

Like four ammo

[somber axle]

Plasma user had 2 more ranged elite kills than me, Columnus Infantry Autogun user had 9k more ranged damage done

[slow spade]

Sadly I don't think the rager will let you wait for burn :p

[somber axle]

On all other metrics I outperformed them while they were using meta guns

The Recons are in a weird state for sure but in the right hands they do perform

[steep nexus]

4 ammo burn is quite quick, if you only spend 2 ammo you can burn him but that takes really long lol

[slow spade]

Was mostly joking because he will be full sending at you :p

[steep nexus]

Not if I kill him first!!

[somber axle]

Keep in mind though that when you start hitting the craziest levels of skilled players like Azrael or Mr. Craime, their ability to play with their Zarona Revolver and Plasma will leave even a really good Recon user in the dust

For your average quickplay pug you can use a Recon and be fine

[steep nexus]

I just need it to be highly viable and extremely good, I don't need it to be the ultimate choice

[somber axle]

In both Damnation and Auric Damnation

[steep nexus]

I am 100% sure that it is viable on auric damnation

[tall torrent]

yea it's viable

[somber axle]

It's definitely viable and fun. It can kill targets with reasonable TTK speed

[steep nexus]

As long as it can fill its role and do exactly what I need, and do it well, I'm happy

[hearty panther]

give zealot recon

[slow spade]

Multi-las for Ogryn when?

[tall torrent]

would still take a fully kitted MG4 over recon tho

[steep nexus]

The reason I love it so much is because it's highly effective against all targets including carapace, and is also extremely good at taking out massive rooms of ranged enemies quickly

[somber axle]

Yeah I love it for the same reason

[steep nexus]

Even bulwarks with the changes

[tall torrent]

wouldn't call it highly effective, u need a lot of investment to make it ok at killing crushers

[full nacelle]

hey fellow vets!

[somber axle]

I must warn though that my build in particular is extra goofy

I play in a way only clowns and masochists can enjoy

[steep nexus]

You invest your skill tree in it yes, but it's very good at killing crushers

[tall torrent]

it's ok at killing crushers with high investment

[somber axle]

Triple Stam curios, Deadshot, Duck and Dive while running to the frontline to purposely bait and dodge ranged enemies for more stamina, keeping the crosshairs constantly and consistently on heads to maximize crit strings with Headhunter blessing for free ammo crits through Shock Trooper

[tall torrent]

but most of the time there're alternatives to killing crushers with far less investment

[steep nexus]

2.5 second TTK seems pretty good to me

[tall torrent]

u can go higher

[steep nexus]

Yeah, but I think this is also an investment just the same as the lasgun is

I use lasgun power sword because it covers 100% of everything I could ever need to kill

[tall torrent]

it's not nearly as high investment as recon

it's 3 point investment

recon needs rending + onslaught

that's 5 points

[steep nexus]

You're spending more points yes, but you're also getting the privilege of having your weapons be effective in 100% of scenarios

Plasma is good but it's not always the best gun to have in some situations

[thick kestrel]

lets be honest, sometimes you just want to Zappa (Zappy-Dakka), nothing wrong with that

[steep nexus]

I am a simple man

I zappa

I power sword

[somber axle]

Tbh I think Recons are both viable and competitive through all difficulties with your average player

[orchid hemlock]

Me when I see 12 crushers coming at me:

[steep nexus]

That's what I'm saying

[tall torrent]

The average player has no idea how to use a plasma effectively let alone a recon lasgun

[somber axle]

If you get matched with some of the BEST players running meta builds they will outdo you for sure

[orchid hemlock]

Ok but what about the Columnus?

[somber axle]

Idk I think the average player running plasma in Auric Damnation usually knows how to use it well enough to carry their own weight

They just don't know it anywhere close to the degree of potential the insanely skilled players here can output

[tall torrent]

The average player doesn’t even play auric damnation

[somber axle]

Yeah that's why I specified in Auric

The average player probably mains Heresy

[orchid hemlock]

Tbh people in Aurics also are doodoo at times

[somber axle]

The average in Auric is higher (not as high pre-penance update because of the funny A.S.S. penance)

[tall torrent]

The avg player folds the moment they see elite wave spawn on top of a hound wave in HiHunt

[somber axle]

They're not bad players

They can play at high difficulty with meta builds and be totally fine

Or at least that's been my experience in quickplay pugs

[steep nexus]

The only problem with being a recon lasgun enjoyer

[orchid hemlock]

Nah they are, I had a vet with over 1000 hours and they died because they overheated their plasma

[steep nexus]

Is that auric players WILL just kick you the moment they see it

[somber axle]

I've very rarely run into people who need hard carrying in Auric Damnation

[tall torrent]

They’re just bad lol

[orchid hemlock]

Also I feel like this is all confirmation bias

[somber axle]

I have run into a few people and even squads in standard damnation who needed a lot of help but those are the most fun matches tbh

I love the chaos of dragging a team to the finish line

[tall torrent]

Good players in QP generally just won’t care about what you use

[somber axle]

If it makes you feel any better I have never been kicked

Not once

[tall torrent]

Because they already have builds to fight everything by themselves without teammates

[last parcel]

what region are you playing in lmao

[steep nexus]

Wtfrog

[steep nexus]

NA..

[somber axle]

Even when I ran my Shredder Autopistol build in Auric Damnation

[full nacelle]

games are much more fun when they're a struggle

[somber axle]

A lot of people in Auric Damnation queue can literally solo clutch carry if they have to

The average competence of an Auric Damnation player is much higher

[orchid hemlock]

Nah I like clean gameplay, it honestly feels like a well oiled machine when everyone is on the same page 😤 👌🏻

[full nacelle]

I get bored when everyone on my team is a level 1000+ speedrunner using plasma guns and fully kitted power swords

[tall torrent]

If they were speedrunning they wouldn’t be 4 vets using power swords

[full nacelle]

I know. Knives.

The point is it's boring

[limber lance]

Gotta love queuing into a damnation with 2 other players running 2 or 3 wounds, excluding zealot mind you, going into it expecting to be carried.

[orchid hemlock]

Like sure it "can" be boring if it's too easy, but most of the time I just don't want to be trapped at the entrance of the level for 10 minutes

[tall torrent]

I think I’ve had that 8/10 games yesterday lol

Quick play yesterday was just horrible, no idea why

[orchid hemlock]

Skulls sale was extended to Xbox service

Also Darktide is back on the game pass

[tall torrent]

DT always been on game pass tho?

[orchid hemlock]

I thought they removed it a few months back

But my guess is the Skulls and Xbox related

[tall torrent]

And sale being extended doesn’t rly mean a day 1 new player would jump directly into damnation lol

[orchid hemlock]

I'm actually curious to see what the Xbox numbers are, because I see almost 50/50

[limber lance]

I find even new players are ok ... in a hallway, once the run gets to an open area you quickly figure out who has good situational awareness

[orchid hemlock]

You would be surprised 😔

[limber lance]

Damnation unlocks like at 18 ish

[last parcel]

15

[orchid hemlock]

https://www.youtube.com/live/WAPN7zuBYWQ?si=x2QpZolP1lprj5_i

Goes into Heresy
Never heavy attacks with the shield

[tall torrent]

Lv25 and lv28 duo QP HiHunt damnation expecting to get carried (they both die twice and cost the run)

[orchid hemlock]

I've noticed something about Darktide that makes it very difficult to stream

People who are new literally can't play the game lmao

[full nacelle]

vtubers

[tall torrent]

It’s very funny seeing people clearly unable to hold their own in fights run off to fight elite waves with no target priority

So they get turbo penetrated by specialist spawns

[limber lance]

Imo though for a nice chill run thats entertaining (Heresy shocktroop)

[orchid hemlock]

It's weird because it kinda looks like "epic gameplay" to a regular viewer because of all of the spawns and shit, but in reality it's just objectively bad

Developing bad habits along the way

[tall torrent]

DT’s issue is that the skill floor is low but skill ceiling is high

[orchid hemlock]

Isn't that a good thing?

[bleak cradle]

I did 10 maels yesterday. No exaggeration, each game had one guy who was ~30 true level who was absolutely there to get carried. And yes, all xbox

[tall torrent]

Not necessarily

[orchid hemlock]

Everyone can enjoy the game

[tall torrent]

It means it would take new players a lot of playtime to reach a skill level that’s considered competent in higher difficulties

[limber lance]

I just queue up expecting it to be like mentor roulette in ffxiv

[tall torrent]

A level of playtime that a lot of people aren’t willing to invest into

[orchid hemlock]

But isn't that fine? Do you need to play on higher difficulties?

[tall torrent]

If the crafting economy didn’t incentivize every player to grind damnation, no

If heresy had anywhere near the plasteel payout as damnation, no

[orchid hemlock]

And tbh I don't think the "skill" is the problem, people on Twitch literally stream 9 hours a day with thousands of viewers while playing games like League.

Maybe darktide is just a hard game to understand while backseating 🤷🏻

[limber lance]

But who here likes the idea of queuing into a damnation thats in progress hoping its going to be a absolute shit show that your going to try to clutch save.

[tall torrent]

It is a hard game to get into

[full nacelle]

I think Darktide is just obtuse with a lot of its mechanics

[orchid hemlock]

Like watching darktide streams, it's either: literal brand new players that get overwhelmed when 3 crushers spawn.

Or it's literally someone with max FOV, 30 mods loaded, running around like a DOOM speed run

[full nacelle]

if there was a proper guide to dealing with different scenarios the game presents you with (e.g. deal with each special and kiting hordes) I think the player experience would be a lot better

[tall torrent]

The fact that the “haha avg military guy” requires a 60+ page guide to step-by-step tell u how his skills & weapons work

Should tell u well enough that it’s a hard game to get into

I literally cannot condense it harder than I already have

[gilded wraith]

Had a level 20 in an auric maelstrom for the xp. Made it through, but nerve-wracking.

[full nacelle]

you can go into auric maelstrom at level 20?

[tall torrent]

Duo queue, someone who’s lv30 can drag u into it

[gilded wraith]

Apparently.

[full nacelle]

that's messed up lol

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah but people who play League literally watch and read about their champions and potential match ups for hours before they even load a single game

So why is there not this incentive for Darktide? 🤔

League has over 100 champions too

[tall torrent]

The fact that you have to join a discord server to look up a guide on the “avg military guy” class to understand how it works, probably

FS never actually explains what rending is in its tooltips

[full nacelle]

Yeah Fatshark has done a terrible job of streamlining info to new players

[orchid hemlock]

But you need to do the same for League, you need to go out of your way to read 20 guides on 3rd party sites for ever y single champion

[limber lance]

Maybe this is a way the game can be lore accurate, so many recruits dieing in theyre first mission

[tall torrent]

Not rly, u can figure a large chunk of the stuff out on ur own

[full nacelle]

I love the silly "praise the emprah" tips in the loading screens but honestly it would go a huge way just having those be actual tips for new players

[tall torrent]

Abilities & items in LoL actually tell u what they do

[stuck gorge]

embrace faith, reject knowledge

[tall torrent]

It’s up to u to figure out how to best synergies them and that’s what the written guides do

[stuck gorge]

no need for actual tips

[limber lance]

Read you talent descriptions!!!

[orchid hemlock]

Have you seen the League learning system?

[tall torrent]

DT’s talent descriptions sometimes don’t even do what they say lol

[orchid hemlock]

The tutorial is non existent

[full nacelle]

Knowledge brings us closer to annihilation

[tall torrent]

You shouldn’t need a tutorial in the first place to understand that +60% AP scales better than +40% AP on an ability

The only case u can make is maybe defense items’ dmg calculation

DT never even tells u that toughness works differently for melee & ranged attacks

[limber lance]

Welp break over back to work.....

[full nacelle]

Godspeed Simon

[orchid hemlock]

League doesn't tell you what lethality is, league doesn't tell you what the calculation of MS is, league doesn't tell you how to "last hit", league doesn't tell you about what items synergize with your skills and which don't, league doesn't tell you hoe damage is calculated or prioritized, league doesn't tell you the gold effrciency of items, league doesn't tell you about damage mitigation

Unless you read the patch notes every single time it is updated

[tall torrent]

You say all that and DT never tells u what your characters’ move speeds are in the first place

DT is significantly more vague in its tutorials than LoL

DT talent & blessing descriptions aren’t even accurate to what they do

[hearty panther]

There's something to be said for the UIs and displaying keywords and numeracy but this isn't really the kind of knowledge most players are being held back by lacking

[orchid hemlock]

Do you need to know exactly what your movement speed is in Darktide? At least for new players? Because in League it is important since it effects other stats in the game

[hearty panther]

FatShark games don't have a mini tutorial about how to counter and listen for the soundcue of each special and I'm fine with that.

[orchid hemlock]

I do also think Darktide's tutorial is much better than League, because League literally doesn't have a tutorial at all 😔

[tall torrent]

Do u need to know how toughness works in darktide? Because that’s never properly explained to the player and that’s a 100% necessary step to learning how to play the game

[orchid hemlock]

Toughness high good, toughness low bad,

[white minnow]

the toughness tutorial is also completely wrong

[orchid hemlock]

Basically League saying more HP = Tankier

[hearty panther]

They never updated it huh

[white minnow]

both the explanation and the tutorial mechanics demonstrate that you don't take melee bleedthrough

[orchid hemlock]

Yeah Darktide is shit with providing correct data

[tall torrent]

Providing incorrect information is worse than providing no information at all

[steep nexus]

I remember when Veteran took bleed through 100% of the time no matter what..

[orchid hemlock]

But what I'm trying to highlight is that people in competative games don't seem to have a problem going out of their way to learn things like mechanics, positioning, and itemization that the game doesn't explicity tell you

[steep nexus]

Recon lasgun boy time

[tall torrent]

Please don’t take inspiring presence

[white minnow]

prob should cater to the audience that a game attracts then

[orchid hemlock]

Not taking Stam regen node 😔

[steep nexus]

They call me no stam Steve

[orchid hemlock]

I once tried to do the "toughness regen" vet build lmao

[tall torrent]

Actually I just realized
U have no grenade regen
And u didn’t take iron will

[orchid hemlock]

With inspiring presence

[steep nexus]

Build goes hard

[full nacelle]

The sad thing is that the only situation where you'd want to run Inspiring Presence is a full toughness Born Leader build

[tall torrent]

No

[full nacelle]

and it's completely superfluous cause you already put out metric shitloads of toughness

let me finish

lol