veteran-class

[full nacelle]

trying to figure out how useful it is

[rigid pilot]

I don't know what talent that is based off of name alone

[full nacelle]

I'm putting together a supportive build focused around giving all my teammates craptons of toughness while I snipe shit with a bolter

oh yeah it's a little passive node toward the bottom of the middle tree

[last parcel]

the one nobody uses

[full nacelle]

Yeah I think I'm gonna have to skip on it to take Iron Will

[rigid pilot]

10% is too little to matter

5% toughness Regen on melee kill becomes like 5.5%

If you have a horde to farm toughness off from you will get back full toughness even without that talent

[full nacelle]

Yeah... Tunnel Vision from Marksmen's Focus would be giving 75% toughness replenishment if its fully stacked

10% more is probably not worth the point...

[rigid pilot]

But I wouldn't take that either

I rather just have more toughness

[full nacelle]

well that's the thing, the entire build takes basically every way to gain more toughness on top of Born Leader to share with the team

[rigid pilot]

The ranged kill one and shout is probably good enough

[full nacelle]

it's a "healer" build more or less... but also I snipe shit and blow up crushers with Deadshot + Bolt Gun

[rigid pilot]

Or mainly just shout with CDR on special kills

[full nacelle]

Yeah it's probably excessive but I want to give it a go

wish there was a way to track toughness given

[bitter turtle]

its not

it doesnt affect anything except coherency regen

its really bad

[full nacelle]

perfect! I'll skip it

[bitter turtle]

i know you want to larp medic but its not worth it even for that

if you want to increase your toughness restore and share it

[full nacelle]

nah I got plenty of larp medic in my build anyway

no tears here

[bitter turtle]

marksman focus (tunnel vision)

that nonde does affect stuff like

confirmed kill

out for blood

etc

not sure

how good a MF Gloryhunter Plasma build would be

but its an idea

[full nacelle]

I was thinking Gloryhunter Bolter cause I'm quirky like that

[bitter turtle]

i think you will not kill enough to make gloryhunter worth it for bolter

esp losing a dmg blessing

[full nacelle]

wondering how good the bolter is at stacking Marksman's Focus...

[wanton dawn]

Imo passive regen is bleh on vet

[bitter turtle]

plasma blessings are basically irrelevant

really minor boosts

[wanton dawn]

Get hot is not

[bitter turtle]

gest hot is decent but i still think its not like

amazingly important either

like you can play a plasma with no gets hot and it will do pretty good still

unlike say, a bolter with no surgical

idk maybe that just cause plasma busted but yeah

[wanton dawn]

It singlehandlely increase your crit per game from 5 to 30%

[bitter turtle]

ya

but its like

that's just losing a conditional deadshot

which is significant but

idk

either way you can do glory+gets hot anyway

[full nacelle]

I find the plasma gun kind of boring tbh

it's a little too good

[bitter turtle]

well

it is

[wanton dawn]

Wat

[bitter turtle]

but its optimal for a medic build

[full nacelle]

true

[rigid pilot]

Blazeaway shattering?

[wanton dawn]

Plasma got better after surv nerf. Cuz most other option got way worse

[bitter turtle]

get shot only gets the maximum effect on the shot you make before maxing out on heat no?

so its not always gonna be at max crit boost

or at least p high

i dont actually know the nitty gritty of mechanic tbf

[wanton dawn]

Yeah but it doesnt reset on switch so eh

[bitter turtle]

im not saying its bad anyway, but i dont think its like

[trim hemlock]

Craime, was that WS Plasma/PS build of yours something like this?

[bitter turtle]

if you have a plasma without gets hot

its still gonna run over anything anyway

you lose the occasional crusher 2 shot

and som eother stuff

but its like w/e

[wanton dawn]

Almost. I go CK and i dont value ws support node

[full nacelle]

Survivalist nerf make me sad... me want to range on ranged class

[bitter turtle]

i dont think you need invig on psword

[wanton dawn]

But same core

[rigid pilot]

You can still do ranged pretty comfortably

[bitter turtle]

are you spamming push attacks that much?

its great on knife but

[wanton dawn]

Also i have version for every aura and grenade

[trim hemlock]

Hm. Where else, ideally, would that point go?

[bitter turtle]

if nothing else, demo team is always an option

[trim hemlock]

Oh, yeah, probably, since I'm specced into grenades anyway

[bitter turtle]

you dont need ogryn dmg btw?

you could also drop agile engage and invig to grab 20% ogryn

i dont think psword really gains anything from agile engagement

[wanton dawn]

Well, i dont go frag on this build so i have 2 free point to go ogryn

[wanton dawn]

No

[bitter turtle]

does plasma benefit a lot?

[rigid pilot]

2 shot crushers maybe

[wanton dawn]

Thats the whole point of the build

[bitter turtle]

idk the bps with agile engage on plasma

[rigid pilot]

But 3 shot and 2 shot not too much of a difference

[bitter turtle]

u should laready be able to with all the melee dmg he has

for psword

idk if it changes something for plasma though

[rigid pilot]

Agile for plasma can give dreg gunner bp

[trim hemlock]

also, on the note of plasma, this should get Flak in place of poxer perk and BA in place of Gloryhunter?

[bitter turtle]

i c

[wanton dawn]

Well, with WS and agile you have guaranteed crit with 25% dmg increase

[rigid pilot]

But idk if the crit alone is enough

[wanton dawn]

Also sunder PS has 2 25% 3 hit cycle

[rigid pilot]

I have gloryhunter/shattering on my weapon spec plasma

[bitter turtle]

i think you 2shot crusher even without WS

if you crit once

with elite plas+ogryn

i could be wrong though

[wanton dawn]

Also also, this is a melee build. Plasma is the best gun to maintain ws

Simple as that

Well, hybrid

[rigid pilot]

Plasma somehow has relatively fast swap speed

Bolter tho

[bitter turtle]

well, it prob helps sunder psword, but i dont think WS really doe sanything for bromentum ps

not like it improves your cleave dmg

also i was saying the other day i wonder if ps3 is better for sunder builds

can kill almost 5 rager in 3 powered heavy

with WS it probably makes it over

[rigid pilot]

WS so good

[bitter turtle]

well

i dont see anything else you can take for ogryn so prob just demo team

that or go smokes and take ogryn

[wanton dawn]

Dont think so. You are still losing the stab overhead

Also heavy on Ps is unsafe

[bitter turtle]

iirc, you can still 1tap mutants and whatnot with ps3 push atk

you do lose crusher 2 tap though

prob harder to do though, the downslash hitbox is worse than a stab

at least i remember having a harder time doing the headshot on mutie with ps3

[wanton dawn]

Well, considering i dont think in term of bp anymore i would not know

[bitter turtle]

still though

#veteran-class message

I think this is worth somemthing

bet with WS the last one would die too

[wanton dawn]

Cant check. I am in transit and my internet is crap rn

[bitter turtle]

rip

[rigid pilot]

Sunder can properly stagger 5 ragers?

[wanton dawn]

Yeah.

[rigid pilot]

That's sick

[full nacelle]

Does anyone actually enjoy using Infiltrate? I don't understand the purpose aside from sneaking objectives

[wanton dawn]

You play it agressively to rush ranged in melee

[shadow aurora]

Infiltrate is fun asf

[rigid pilot]

I never pick it

[shadow aurora]

-threat basically makes everything ignore you

And you have a free escape button

[wanton dawn]

I am using it for penance

It is not "great". But it is fine for agressive gameplay

[full nacelle]

idk it just doesn't seem as fun or useful as the others

[last parcel]

poppin invis then underhand dropping 4 grenades is funny

[shadow aurora]

More engaging than shout

[full nacelle]

can't deny that

[wanton dawn]

I use it with +1 charge and tdr

[full nacelle]

I'm becoming an Executioner's Stance fan

[shadow aurora]

Ex stance is cool

Use it with lasgun for true guardsmen gameplay

[full nacelle]

I use it on my shotgun and bolter builds

the best snipers

I think melee vet in general just alludes me

[shadow aurora]

It doesn't actually have to be melee

I took middle keystone with mine

Use lawbringer shotgun to pump everything full of pellets except crushers and maulers

They get the fold shovel

[rigid pilot]

Lawbringer is so fun

Manstopper scattershot with MF

[wanton dawn]

Exe stance got worse with surv nerf

[rigid pilot]

One shot 15 stacks of MF

[wanton dawn]

I prefer the one that stack passively

[full nacelle]

I've been trying to roll a good Lawbringer for the past 30k plasteel 😔

[rigid pilot]

Make sure you get the level 2 blessing too 💀

[shadow aurora]

Shotguns are unfortunately very picky

[rigid pilot]

I had to make a new character for that

[shadow aurora]

Without the good stuff theyre shit

[rigid pilot]

Manstopper is my favorite blessings

Turns shotguns into l4d shotguns

[full nacelle]

grinded an alt to level 15 and spent all my dockets on it 🙃

[rigid pilot]

Nice

[full nacelle]

I just need to roll one with a decent starting perk/blessing now

but I can't

thanks Fatshart

[shadow aurora]

Fartshart

[full nacelle]

truuuueeee

[vivid silo]

I can't stop using Chain Axes. I think I might need some help at this point before I turn to Khorne 😢

[full nacelle]

I also can't get a handle on how to use the Helbore lasguns

it feels terrible to charge these things but I love the bayonet

[vivid silo]

A classic love/hate relationship 😄

[last parcel]

then pretend it’s just a spear

[full nacelle]

you right

[bitter turtle]

the funny thing is

the previous patch

the bayonet could inherit brutal momentum from your melee

so playing it as a spear with a gun on the side was legit actually really strong

now you might have trouble with hordes

it still can stagger and kill anything that isnt a crusher easily though

[frank ether]

it was an antifun nerf

I'm sorry ''bug fix''

[shadow aurora]

Why are you still blue

Bot is fucked

[frank ether]

I think the bot just hates me

[last parcel]

ENGINSEER

PLEASURE THE MACHINE SPIRIT

[frank ether]

I'll be turned into a servitor for criticizing fat fish

it was nice knowing you all

[jagged bridge]

with the changes to the power sword you guys think power cycler is less valuable?

[last parcel]

cat chat loses another soldier

[frank ether]

I mean the possibility of l o n g s w o r d vet with BM+slaughterer is there but realistically you still want cycler

honestly I just wish the special activation weapons werent so gimmicky and felt a bit more natural to use at times

they feel close, real close, but not quite there

[jagged bridge]

well being able to activate them at any time was a good move

[bitter turtle]

no

are you talking about the activation not breaking the attack chain

cause that was not even a buff

did they get a more recent change idk

[jagged bridge]

i thought it had to do with being able to activate it whenever you wanted

but maybe i misunderstood

[frank ether]

It was more of a fix at a symptom of its problems rather than the core issue, if anything this was probably a change made with PC4 rarity in mind rather than an attempt at fixing powersword

[bitter turtle]

if you are talking about the one where it does not interrupt attack chains

it basically means

if you do L1 L2 charge

before

it would go back to L1 L2

now it goes L1 L2 charge L3 L4

which is actually a bad thing for ps6 because L4 is a strikedown which you probably dont want if you are spamming lights and not push attacking

so you now need to block cancel correctly if you want to oPtiMizE your gameplay

[frank ether]

I just want a psword mark with a cool moveset

[bitter turtle]

wdym mindless horizontal swings arent cool?

[frank ether]

like give me a mark where this whole activation thing is not even there

give me a moveset where some attack chains are powered by default

[bitter turtle]

lore reason is we get defective power sword hand me downs

gotta turn it back on every few seconds

[frank ether]

lmao

[jagged bridge]

power cycler/supercharge still bis?

[bitter turtle]

uh

no

[frank ether]

supercharge is bad

[bitter turtle]

supercharge is shit

choose sunder (cleave elites) or brutal momentum (kill hordes)

[agile forge]

Supercharge bad man

[frank ether]

bromentum also better for the crusher nuke thing

or at least I remember it so

[sand zealot]

i haven't played plasma gun a lot... so don't flame me for asking lol, but is charge rate important on it?

[bitter turtle]

well

it adds 15% weakspot damage

as small as that is

sunder doesnt really do anything for that

[frank ether]

adds up with the amount of damage we stack on that energized push attack I guess

[bitter turtle]

not incredibly

it slightly increases your uncharged shot speed as well but the optimal gameplay for plasma is spamming uncharged shots

you are never gonna charge in 90% of scenarios

[vivid silo]

It reduces the delay very slightly. But I have hopes that Fatshark eventually will make the Plasma interesting again

[sand zealot]

okay, onlyreason i'm asking is because i was just gifted one after a mission, and every modifier is above 75%, except charge rate is 18% lmao

[bitter turtle]

well

play it and see how you feel

[frank ether]

Lately I wonder if big gameplay changes are planned or are we too far past that sort of stuff for darktide. Like clearly the way plasma works is just unintuitive, it rewards safer play over risking big charged hits

[bitter turtle]

all it maffeccts for uncharged is

when you click

there's a slight delay before the shot comes out

[sand zealot]

i'm going to take it into the meat grinder and see how it does

[bitter turtle]

that is affected by charges peed

[bitter turtle]

honestly

[finite carbon]

Charge does (slightly) affect uncharged shot speed

[bitter turtle]

i expect nothing at this point really

just treating this like old games where they release and are done

[sand zealot]

are there any preferred blessings for plasma? sorry if that has been asked a billion times

[bitter turtle]

so anything added is just a nice surprise(?)

[jagged bridge]

should i take flak or maniac?

[vivid silo]

I still got a small supply of copium mixed with hopium thankfully. Still hanging in there!

[bitter turtle]

i think its not impossible the plasma gets changed though

apparently someone said the playtester that pushed the bolter into being a DMR feels like they went too far?

and we might see it go back to hipfire

[vivid silo]

It depends on how you want to use it. Blaze Away + Get's Hot is the general go-to

[bitter turtle]

idk though that's literally just some person in zel chat saying that

[vivid silo]

But if you are mostly using it to keep up Weapon Specialist (and generally relying on your melee weapon) then Gloryhunter and even Volatile can be useful

[bitter turtle]

im salty about the bayonet thing though too yeah

they shouldn't be taking away more ways to play the game lol

[frank ether]

So rip to my boltor deadshot build then?

I mean can't they give a second bolter mark for this

[bitter turtle]

i have no idea, they might just buff hipfiring and leave the DMR style intact, they might gut it, who knows

[frank ether]

I guess we'll have to wait and see

[sand zealot]

holy crap, so i just compared the uncharged shots to the one i have that has 80% charge rate, and there was just not that much of difference.

[bitter turtle]

its just "some dude in zealot chat" as source, wasnt even from the playtester htemself

[vivid silo]

I also think Gloryhunter is decent if you are running Executioners Stance

[bitter turtle]

ya its elss than a fraction of a second

if it doesnt annoy you

just use it

[frank ether]

Problem with hipfire bolter is well.. Its just always gonna favor zealot more

Vet as a class does dogshit with cone of fire weapons

[jagged bridge]

i thought i remember reading somewhere that 73% charge rate was optimal with the way the animation was but

[bitter turtle]

that is ancient

[jagged bridge]

i dunno if that is accurate or not

[bitter turtle]

from when charge rate used to actually affect your dmg

it was a bug

long fixed

[sand zealot]

Thanks for all the help/info everyone

[bitter turtle]

i think it still affects it by like 1 last time i tested

as in literally 1 damage

but nothing worth caring about

[frank ether]

Bolter has some crazy finesse but you get neither good crits nor good rate of headshots as a hipfiring veteran

[bitter turtle]

i just hope they dont strip away bolter's identity of being clunky tbh

its a nice change of pace to have to do weird techs to make it swap faster and reload faster and whatnot

[jagged bridge]

should i take maniac or flak on the perk spot?

[frank ether]

It needs some fixes regarding sight misalignments

[bitter turtle]

there might be an argument for flak if you do heavies to cleave scab ragers, but prolly sitll maniac

oh wait

this is bromentum

nolt even sunder

just go maniac

you 1tap all the trash mobs to activate bromentum either way

[bitter turtle]

yeah that i dont mind them fixing

just you hear ppl complaining nonstop that bolter is clunky to pull out and stuff

so im afraid that gets hit and we have more homogenized weapon gameplay

[frank ether]

Also this game badly needs some of the QoL mods implemented into the game that really drags down the average casual player

a lot of the bolter complaints stem from this, I mean obviously the core issue is that the guns recoil is acting in broken ways

[bitter turtle]

loadout mod should be part of the game

like legitimately

its such an important tool

[frank ether]

but they take these ironsight weapons, give it crazy low FoV and then slap some misaligned sway/recoil on top of that

[bitter turtle]

and creature spawner

[frank ether]

and then john darktide plays his veteran

misses %80 of his shots

calls the gun garbage

[frank ether]

%100

I like how we like talk about how we don't get a longlas because ''a scope would be too much tunnel vision''

meanwhile fatshark be like ''haha yes this weapon has 40 FoV when you ads and then you hit exe stan and get even more zoomed in''

[bitter turtle]

meanwhile i put scope on half my weapons

[frank ether]

there needs to be a baseline option for exe stance somewhere to remove that zoom in

I do it with a mod

Its not the scope that kills your situational awareness its the FoV that would even give the most die-hard console slop enjoyer motion sickness

[bitter turtle]

lol

i might have just put way too many hours into this game to be hindered by the scope for situational awareness as well ig

[frank ether]

I mean, the only compartments that matter are clean sight picture and just how much zoomed in the view is (FoV)

I think I would genuinely take a scope over irons on some of these guns

[bitter turtle]

also idk if maybe GW doesnt let them do this

but

weapon customization too

using parts from any gun you've bought from shop as well

pretty sure would put a lot more hours in the game for some ppl

[frank ether]

It absolutely would

[normal skiff]

Hello. What would you advise to change here?

[bitter turtle]

ranged dmg specialists

prob maniac ig

im not that familiar with the bps on it so just check out the guide in the pin

[frank ether]

I'd swap ghost to deadly accurate but Idk much about 1a breakpoints

ghost is actually pretty good but I think its a bit of a moot point with how I play the game

[normal skiff]

Thank you

[bitter turtle]

i like ghost ilas but yeah, deadly accurate if you want even more damage works too

[frank ether]

this game is very very generous with mobility which kinda undermines how busted ghost can be

honestly its a bit of a design problem too

they want ranged enemies to matter

[bitter turtle]

i play like a complete fucking lunatic so ghost helps alot

[frank ether]

and then they put a blessing that makes you immune to their damage

[bitter turtle]

even worse

[frank ether]

and give dodge slide 2 years of iframes

and other damage immunity tricks

[bitter turtle]

they make you dodge them all by just not looking at the bullets

[frank ether]

soooo so many things make you immune to ranged damage

[bitter turtle]

tbh i think its ok though

gunners dont need to be that dangerous, they're just area denial paired with melee enemies

[frank ether]

and they try to counteract this by making gunners instakill you if they ever manage to catch you out of iframes lol

I'm either completely immune to ranged dmg or get 2 framed I feel like

especially on other classes moreso than vet

[bitter turtle]

iron will helps mitigate it alot for vet

that talent is basically made for ranged dmg lol

[frank ether]

yeah pretty much

Tho I think this is not a talent issue

this is an encounter/game design problem

[bitter turtle]

the way i see it is

gunners arent really meant to kill you

they're meant to restrict where you can go easily

and the more your movement gets restricted

the more dangerous specialists get

and they're hte ones that actually finish you off

but gunners are also fragile alone, so melee units exist to tie you up in combat so you cant just shoot them

at least in theory

[frank ether]

I think if I designed this I'd have it so you're meant to stab the stabby enemies and shoot the shooty ones

[bitter turtle]

you wouldn't say most melee enemies are meant to be melee'd?

[rigid pilot]

Used to be worse, used to be you didn't break melee tracking if you dodged with a ranged weapon

[bitter turtle]

outside of ragers

[frank ether]

They are but what people do is just shoot them

[bitter turtle]

maybe its my gun choice but i almost always melee combat against crushers

[frank ether]

see this is the issue

[bitter turtle]

and mauler

[frank ether]

ragers and bulwarks are also supposed to be melee'd

except

why do that when u can shoot

kinda always been the problem wasn't it

ragers being gunned down

I actually engage them in melee now that these two enemies are fixed

[bitter turtle]

i usually prefer to melee bulwarks as well

not sure though

i guess thats dependent on gun

[rigid pilot]

Ragers are kinda meant to be shot

Their attacks used to be undodgable

[bitter turtle]

going down the list

[shadow aurora]

Wasnt that a mistake though

[rigid pilot]

It's a balance change

[shadow aurora]

Good riddance

[rigid pilot]

Not a bug fix

[shadow aurora]

Anything should be able to be meleed with enough skill

[bitter turtle]

rager - use ranged
crusher - use melee
bulwark - use melee
mauler - use either (flak body makes them really efficient to kill with gun)

[rigid pilot]

Imagine they let ragers throw their axes haha

[bitter turtle]

for melee elites

imo at least

and then for ranged units

[frank ether]

See you have this scary melee duelist enemy and you just.... gun them down because they can't be engaged in melee. You have this scary shotgunner patrol enemy and you just... dodge slide into its face so they pull out their melee and get slaughtered in two seconds. This can't be intended design, fatshark isn't that stupid.... I think.

[bitter turtle]

shotgunner - context dependent? if you're mid range you try to close in, if you're far, use ranged
gunner - use either
reaper - use gun

at least is my usual plan

[rigid pilot]

Duellist enemies need to be rinda and teleport behind you, nothing personnel reject

[shadow aurora]

I think shotgunners are fine. Just need better melee combat

They are super weak once the gap is closed

[frank ether]

Idk why shotgunners switch to melee in the first place

like... they have a shotgun you now

[bitter turtle]

proll yhtey didnt want you to get bodied in 1 hit

[frank ether]

Idk

[shadow aurora]

Honor

[frank ether]

yea

[bitter turtle]

they are really deadly at mid range

if you are unable to close the gap for w/e reason

[frank ether]

see the thing is

they should be

[neat oar]

They have a pretty nice sound queue though

[frank ether]

you should be encouraged to shoot the shotgunners, with your gun, thats why its there for lmao

[somber axle]

Just Devil's Claw parry a Rager head off. Or Helbore Mk I/Helbore Mk II bayonet stab them to death. Or Power Sword VI charged push attack their face. Rev'd Chainsword or Chainaxe to the face (if there's only one, too risky if there are more). Or just use Knife's crazy mobility to dodge them with zero effort and stab them

[bitter turtle]

i think its partly bc o f the knockback

[rigid pilot]

Shooter enemies reward you diving into them and tying them up in melee

[bitter turtle]

like if you go into melee them, and they were to shoot you instead of meleeing

you'd get put in mid range

[somber axle]

You can gun them down and it's safer but depending on your melee weapon you can also just best them in melee

[bitter turtle]

and thats even worse

[rigid pilot]

Shotgunners getting stronger the closer you are just breaks the rule

[bitter turtle]

for the player i mean

in terms of not dying

[somber axle]

Honestly even like the shovels can deal with them pretty easily

[bitter turtle]

idk if that is good as design or not

they are easy once you get into melee range

so any melee kills them

[neat oar]

I feel like they should be a BIT stronger in melee

[bitter turtle]

they are only dangerous at midrange

[rigid pilot]

Zealots are going to so sad if shotgunners kept shooting in melee lol

[neat oar]

They're windup is ages long

[somber axle]

Base shovel gets a special thrust to stagger interrupt them and set them up for finishing them off. Fold shovels can just whack

[bitter turtle]

at long range you can outgun them bc they dont have enough range to hit you with the spread

at close range they switch to their shitty shovel or w/e

ad mid range is when nyou can get bodied

[shadow aurora]

Give them a psword

[somber axle]

I'm kinda struggling to think of a melee weapon that would have a hard time with killing a Rager

Tac Axe??

[frank ether]

I don't think it is, I think this game has a very satisfying combat loop but its a game I genuinely turn my brain off to play, the encounter design completely falls-off at how overpowered player characters are

[somber axle]

But idk I have limited experience with them

[rigid pilot]

Knife technically

You gotta kill them fast

[bitter turtle]

i feel like that is less enemy design and more just the weapons being absurd nowadays

[rigid pilot]

The punch doesn't do shit

[neat oar]

Knife just dodge and light spam to bleed em to death

[wanton dawn]

We need more trapper !

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/piccolo-dbz-atfuraxx-gif-14120574

[bitter turtle]

crushers are just a complete joke

they dont even soak up dmg properly

[rigid pilot]

Dodge 1 or 2, easy

But like 4-5 ragers

[frank ether]

partially that aswell but they contribute to each other anyway

[bitter turtle]

in a 1v1 nothign really struggles, but in the context of a pack

its not a good idea to run ninto a pack of ragers iwth your melee

[rigid pilot]

They exist as carapace damage checks

[frank ether]

anyway thats enough complaining

[bitter turtle]

for a lot of melee weapons

[somber axle]

With 10 stamina I just alternate dodge and spam push attack while aiming heads until they fall over

But I am a clown

[bitter turtle]

well

it dpeends on your weapqon

bayonet can just charge at them and win

lol

assuming its like

[wanton dawn]

Rager became easier after patch

[bitter turtle]

4 or 5 and not like 20 or somemthing mind you

[neat oar]

They used to f**k

[wanton dawn]

Green rager in melee

[bitter turtle]

damn

agri shotty is fun

https://i.gyazo.com/117cc8d80a7e708c067408820de76813.png

but fug me

i lost to a plasma

i feel like the normal shot spread is more reliable in psyk than a real game

or maybe im just not aiming as well when they don tjust stand there

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-cute-covers-face-gif-15516263

[vivid silo]

Mk IV Chain Axe stuns them even with unrevved lights. Can actually duel a small handful of Ragers in melee. Once Slaughter and Headtaker are stacked they are 1-shot on a light (unrevved) attack to the head. Feels awesome

[somber axle]

NICE

[full nacelle]

what is the point of The Bigger They Are from the Executioner's Stance tree?

memes?

[trim hemlock]

Chaining Ogryn kills

Or, rather, chaining the stance through Ogryn kills

Which is not worth a skill point really, but there it is

[rigid pilot]

Veteran veteran

[agile forge]

Back before patch 13, it used to also grant increased damage against ogryn and bosses

now it just highlights them and enables them to be used for the refresh, and it's basically worthless

[elder fiber]

exe stance rework plz

[rigid pilot]

They nerfed all of exe's damage for what exactly

[trim hemlock]

Because Volley Fire was busted before P13, so surely overnerfing the ability and never looking back at it was a wise design decision

Not that VF was busted by itself, that we can attribute to Unwavering Stance and old Confirmed Kill

But FS doesn’t know this

[elder fiber]

not just nerfed but also powercrept

[rigid pilot]

That was mainly because of the old iron will too

[elder fiber]

• meta shift b/c the entire game isn't fighting marksman hordes anymore

[agile forge]

The damage on E stance is good

it's just it doesn't make you immortal now

[trim hemlock]

There was no old Iron Will, but there was an Unwavering Stance, which is now an upgrade for Infiltrate for some reason lal

[agile forge]

and VoC exists

[rigid pilot]

Is good but could be better

But then infiltrate also exists

[agile forge]

Infiltrate... I kinda don't get the point of it still

[trim hemlock]

And I think that was the main point - it should make you want to kill things in ranged, not also be immune to all harm

[tiny summit]

Exe getting survivability would do nothing for it because Iron Will with other toughness talents exist and VoC is right there.

[rigid pilot]

Yea but they could just remove the invul part but keep the damage, but noooo

[elder fiber]

idk infilitrate doesn't need multiple points invested to function

[agile forge]

well it would help it a lot tbh

[tiny summit]

No it wouldnt

[agile forge]

yes it would

this is a fun argument

[trim hemlock]

No, the damage needs to go down by 30% points and be made a separate skill, in a different skill tree

[agile forge]

the problem with ES is it makes you very rigid once it's active

you used to be able to just ignore getting wailed on in melee while it was on

[elder fiber]

I don't think thats the only problem lol

[agile forge]

now you can't

[tiny summit]

No it wouldn't. VoC is right there and Exe offers minimal value because weapons have been buffed to the point of making its dmg bonus redundant

[agile forge]

yes it would

VoC does more than just that

[trim hemlock]

I think moving the bonus from „The Bigger they Are” to „Bring it Down” was a good decision

[agile forge]

And E stance does a lot more work on automatic weapons than semiautomatics

[trim hemlock]

But not at the cost of gutting TBTA (leaving it with no additional benefit (I.e., damage bonus) whatsoever)

[agile forge]

It's genuinely still really good on a CIAG

it's just, nothing can compare with spammable yellow toughness

[tiny summit]

Yea and it's the braindead survivability option. Exe getting survivability would do nothing for it when VoC exists as it does

[rigid pilot]

Exe ciag is cool for deleting things

[agile forge]

It would do plenty for it

[trim hemlock]

I use Bolter with Exec stance, like, it’s good, but a far cry from its original power

[agile forge]

you can keep asserting that it won't

but it really would.

Maybe you just don't use weapons that actually benefit from ES properly

[trim hemlock]

It still provides good utility for sweeping rooms full of small and big elites alike

[elder fiber]

idk I can just kill things with ciag by pinging them and turning them yellow before killing them

[rigid pilot]

Exe lasting forever is also kinda weird cringe

Are they treating it as a passive and that's why it's so neutered

[agile forge]

I'd like it more if they made the mode stay active even if you swap too tbh

[tiny summit]

It really wouldn't because you have iron will, with CK or ET and you're already regening toughness and DR over doing what you are doing with Exe stance. Sure...make the Exe stance regening loads of toughness get more tanks. OK. VoC already exists.

[agile forge]

so you could get a refresh, then quickly sweep down anything nearby and then get your gun out again

[agile forge]

You're confusing "won't help ES vs VoC" with "would make VoC irrelevant".

[rigid pilot]

Even better if they just increase swap speed during volley

[agile forge]

The danger of overbuffing its survival characteristic is that VoC would fall off

not that ES wouldn't be helped

[tiny summit]

No I'm not. Don't make arguments people aren't making

[agile forge]

Don't make stupid arguments then

[tiny summit]

Not my fault you're stupid. Stop projecting then

[trim hemlock]

This world be pointless if VF is dropped on weapon swap like it currently is

[rigid pilot]

I meant if they allow you to swap but also buff swap speed during the stance

[trim hemlock]

Now that’s more like it

[rigid pilot]

But then no one will ever use gun bash anymore

Feels like fatshark really wants people to use it

[trim hemlock]

Ah yes. The ancient art of prolonging VF by poking a poxburster mid-air on its ass

[tiny summit]

Woohoo Exe gets some survivability with a minimal dmg increase when a lot of the meta weapons dont need it. It still isn't the AoE stagger, on low CD, refilling entire team's toughness and overtoughness invulnerability.

[rigid pilot]

How to make gun bashing relevant again

The only time I use it is on bolter because the swap time is horrendous

[bitter turtle]

Really wants low profile and on overwatch

[tiny summit]

Definitely feel like low profile should be innate

[full nacelle]

How to use smoke grenades? On top of self or on top of enemy?

[stuck gorge]

I think like halfway in between so your team can still see but gunners sight lines will be blocked by smoke

[elder fiber]

idk its still been useful to me even without those. Def moreso than base exe stance

[bitter turtle]

It's better than exec when both are base

But I think it needs them to be competitive with voc

And I honestly do think it is competitive for pug games

Maybe not organized play

[bitter turtle]

On self

You can see through the smoke when you are inside

That or where you plan to go

[tiny summit]

Throwing smokes on top of the team during a hound wave is funny. My experience is that the dogs just run around in the smoke not pouncing anyone

[bitter turtle]

Ya it helps during hounds

Cause specialists need to be inside the smoke to do their thing

[agile forge]

Smokes are kinda sneakily amazing

I feel like they really want you to have grenade tinkerer

[wanton dawn]

Smoke are great if you are good in melee

[tame lodge]

Well, you can solve the problem in 15 seconds or have 30 seconds to solve the problem

It's determined by play style, I guess

[full nacelle]

How important is stability on the bolter?

[agile forge]

I'm not running tinkerer and I really feel it

[twilit goblet]

Is power cycled III worth buying from melk?

[sturdy zephyr]

+2 or just +1?

[twilit goblet]

+1

[wanton dawn]

Not paramount, but not a dump stat either

Low stab is very noticiable

[dreamy scaffold]

low stab is noticiable on most ranged😔 it makes a crazy difference for how many shots you can get on target

[wanton dawn]

Bolter has janky ads

Compare to hellbore where stability is dump

[dreamy scaffold]

personally the ads is purely for super ranged targets since its super slow

[wanton dawn]

Bolter has increased crit on ads

[dreamy scaffold]

oh sweet

[wanton dawn]

I think its +5%

[tame lodge]

Vets use it as some sort of DMR, so you would be aiming a lot

[wanton dawn]

Add deadshot and you get 30% on ads

Add surgical and you have the nuts

[dreamy scaffold]

that certainly sounds fun, ill have to try and roll a bolter to try and swap w/ my rev

[wanton dawn]

Well, tbh i havent tried bolter since surv nerf

I think it hurts bad

[frank ether]

there isnt much besides soloing objectives, but I feel like just be a zealot and have twbs is superior to playing a vet in general

like a lot of the times the reason I end up having to use infil is the interrupts to begin with and it feels meh to burn ult cd just to play gameboy

[tame lodge]

Unpopular use
Returning fire against a wall of gunners

[midnight totem]

Toughness restore, suppression, doing objectives, repositioning, taking out priority targets, rescues, messing with enemy ai

If you're being shot at super long range by gunners and you don't have suppression immunity, VoC doesn't help

[dreamy scaffold]

infil is good for many things

[midnight totem]

But team yellow toughness is objectively stronger so, please buff infiltrate, FS

[tame lodge]

And execstance so it doesn't just lag behind on the meta

[agile forge]

Maybe E stance just needs enemy shooters to be more dangerous again

And yellow toughness to be nerfed as a general concept

And it should do something for your toughness since the other two do

Like, maybe toughness gain on kills under it would be the obvious route

If you're tryharding it's hard to not take VoC

[tame lodge]

We also don't want to lose Exec by swapping to melee

[midnight totem]

Exe: don't lose by swapping yo melee, autoload weapon

Boom

[tiny summit]

Toughness gain through kills with Exe would be minimal since Vet has 3 toughness gain on kill nodes at the top of the tree.

[agile forge]

All different conditions though, and each extra one is a 2 point investment

I'd make it like, weakspot kills on yellow bois give an extra 20% back or something

Just because iron will gives much less mileage if you don't have a source of yellow toughness

Maybe that's the interaction that needs a nerf tbh

[forest breach]

I only use exec with my bolter build, where i regard the bolter as a part of the ult. Press F, instant bolter pullout and unload a mag or two at outlined heretics and the return to melee.

[bitter turtle]

You can instant pull out without exec

https://youtu.be/qHA8-mGQ1Tk?si=X_7pw8O3Gj6Yw14d

[forest breach]

Insta pullout is not the main thing on that build doe, just a bonus

[bitter turtle]

Witness my black magic 👻

[wild vortex]

I didn't even understand what you did

[bitter turtle]

Cancel swap animation with reload animation

[forest breach]

mega tweak

[bitter turtle]

Cancel reload animation with sprint animation

Results in that

[inland orchid]

ya normally bolter animation is very long even on pulling it out

so his vid is showing a way to avoid that

[bitter turtle]

Instant swap

Only caveat is you need a missing bullet in the clip but it's a lot less hard to have that situation than you'd think, I don't even really think about it

[dreamy scaffold]

i liked bolter, but i really like rev

i feel like cowboy

[forest breach]

agripinaa is fun, zarona just feels lame

[dreamy scaffold]

i like both

both have qualities over each other

[forest breach]

still prefer laspistol with ghost

[bitter turtle]

Srsly tho agri is kinda fun, zarona is just boring

Laspistol with ghost is

Favorite gun rn

[dreamy scaffold]

dunno but laspistol feels weak to me

[bitter turtle]

It's very strong

[wild vortex]

I love Laspistol

[forest breach]

yeeeeees

[wild vortex]

It's so fucking good

[bitter turtle]

It's probably the best lasweapon rn

[dreamy scaffold]

i respect that it is good, it just doesnt feel fun to use

[wild vortex]

Let me just stand in front of a gun line of Shotgunners and dome each of them while their nerf guns fire away

[forest breach]

as long as you hit heads, its amazing

[wild vortex]

It's not even hard to hit heads with it

[bitter turtle]

Laspistol knife loadout is my main jam right now

Zip everywhere

[forest breach]

tho i mainly use it to close on ranged enemies to then shred them in melee

[wild vortex]

I'm not even a CoD sweatlord or anything

[bitter turtle]

Yeah you can just hipfire spam it

[forest breach]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

Don't need to have god aim

Some will hit the head as long as you're pointing in the general direction of it

[wild vortex]

Ghost + Dumdum allows you to vaporize gun lines before they become a problem for your team

[tiny summit]

Yea all different conditions to what you are doing with Exe. Shooting heads or shooting elites/specials. It would be a buff. That's not what I'm denying. To the balance of the whole game, it really does nothing for Exe vs it's options

[forest breach]

Melee crustacean vet is best vet

[midnight totem]

Vet with a commissar hat and pistol ought to get a special option

Instantly down an ally outside of coherency, buff those in coherency with damage, speed, and toughness

[bitter turtle]

yeah im sure that wont be abused at all

how about instnatly down an ally in coherency :^)

i think that sounds even funnier

run away from the commisar

its like tag

[stuck gorge]

Not instantly down but maybe just instantly break toughness

[midnight totem]

instead of executioner stance

It's executed stance

[forest breach]

now how would they balance the bolt pistol

[wanton dawn]

A sad short story

[inland orchid]

womp womp to that lad, i'd be thankful to see a plasma in my squad

hell i had one in mine recently and he was human, blew up and everything!

[midnight totem]

Level 1.4k?

Damn I'm only level 30

[inland orchid]

true level mods lets u see past level 30

cuz the game keeps track of your xp

regardless of max level

[midnight totem]

I know, I'm joking

Though I never got that mod to work

[inland orchid]

i never modded period so we both the same in that regard

[hexed cloak]

players when someone doesn't use the "most meta" build possible for their class

[bitter turtle]

no

opposite

[wanton dawn]

This is the reverse situationa actually

[bitter turtle]

he was annoyed someone was using a meta build

lol

[woeful ibex]

wat

[wanton dawn]

You can never win

[hexed cloak]

duality of man

[bitter turtle]

some ppl might get annoyed cause plasma is very easy to top score with

and it reduces his dopamine rush from seeing beeg number

ig

that's my thought at least

lol

[hexed cloak]

imagine caring about top score

[wanton dawn]

Well, I switched to a surv build cuz I did not want ogryn to complain about me not picking ammo aura

I should have known better IG

Also I should probably reset my level

[hexed cloak]

there is no winning just play whatever works

they will complain regardless

[wanton dawn]

I mean, I know, I am lvl 1k4

[hidden torrent]

I've been so burnt from doing penancnes I'm just eating attacks from common enemies lmao

Brain fry

[wind grotto]

i've seen a lot of people complain that plasma users now hoover up all the ammo on the map if they play like you could play before with it

[hexed cloak]

well it's an ammo hungry gun

[hidden torrent]

It's balance rn is it's poor ammo economy

[wanton dawn]

It is litterally the least ammo hungry accross the tip tier gun though...

[hidden torrent]

It's ammo net negative with surv

[wind grotto]

yeah people still play like you can shoot the entire crusher/mauler spawn with it and be ammo positive from that

but now that just drains most of a mag

and gives you like 4 or 5 shots back

[agile forge]

It's OK to not be ammo positive anyway

You just gotta play like you are aware of it

[hidden torrent]

But there are guns that can be ammo positive

[agile forge]

You can't blast random shooters with it any more

[wind grotto]

sure, but it's annoying that people just run around and hoover up every ammo spawn on the map now

[hidden torrent]

Revolver being one

[wind grotto]

the survivalist nerf needed to happen for sure, but the way they did it just made people play like idiots and hoover up ammo after shooting entire mags they cannot get back at shooters/etc

[agile forge]

Revolver has its own problems, but is probably too strong still right now

[hidden torrent]

Revolver is imo, one of the best guns for vet rn because of how ammo efficient it is and it's pretty massive damage

[agile forge]

Ideally you have most of your team on efficient builds and one ammo hog imo

[wind grotto]

I'm on team helbore until they just remove stormtrooper or some shit because they hate people shooting guns

[agile forge]

So long as across the whole team you have balance

Same thing with grenades

[hidden torrent]

This too

Funny hehe build

[hexed cloak]

that build looking mighty fine for when I finally get to using veteran for penances

[wind grotto]

tbf thats not the only gun that can just decimate a monster on vet

[hidden torrent]

It's quite expensive to roll that revolver

[hidden torrent]

That build really isn't very good for anything but braincell deletion

[wind grotto]

yep

[hidden torrent]

Colomnus is also quite wild rn too

Just in general

[wind grotto]

i'm still surprised they didn't nerf the columnus if they were nerfing things

well the columnus/revolvers/plasma

[wanton dawn]

Shooting boss is bad for ammo though...

[wind grotto]

the columnus gets so much ammo that emptying a mag or two into a boss isn't great but you sure fuck it up

[hidden torrent]

Columnus is one of the the guns I think should be straight nerfed instead of rebalanced to be good at something specific

2 small ammo packs refills the ammo you use on a boss

That thing has so much ammo

[agile forge]

You get so much ammo back from boxes

[wind grotto]

one refills what you use if your team actually killed it

[agile forge]

You just gotta nerf yourself when you take it by going ES/MF

Because the raw killing power it gets when you fully amp it up is hilarioua

[wind grotto]

I like ES quite a bit on anything with recoil/sway just for the reduction on those

[midnight totem]

The problem with ammo is

[agile forge]

I tried taking it on my zealot and hated it because I got so used to that vet build and the gun psyker build with it

[agile forge]

Suppression and spread too!

[midnight totem]

No other class has a way to conserve or get back ammo

It shouldn't be a vet only thing

[agile forge]

Psyker does

Assail, or not taking a gun

[midnight totem]

Besides psyker

[wind grotto]

yeah they should of not touched survivalist without adding more ways to get ammo back, or changed how fucked so many guns are on ammo efficiency

[hidden torrent]

Actually I think it should be a Vet exclusive thing, like the ammo only goes back to the Vet and not the team

[wind grotto]

I think every character should have a way to get a tiny bit back somehow

[hidden torrent]

Because Gun Psyker and Glugger benefit from surv so much

[agile forge]

And then give out slightly more ammo boxes in compensation maybe

[hidden torrent]

I think it's fine if they don't, Gun Psyker and Glugger need a little turned down

Only thing that stops them now from being hyper sicko is ammo

[wind grotto]

well gunker is it's own problem

they never should of let psyker get anything but staves

[bitter turtle]

not really

what guns are fucked

shredder autopistol?

its ok bc it was a piece of shit either way

[wind grotto]

bolter is the biggest one

[bitter turtle]

no

its not

[hidden torrent]

Bolter El stinky

Unfortunately

[wind grotto]

yes it is, it's a trash weapon now unless you have some insane godroll

[bitter turtle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1237348959031394385/455fd6138bea347d8878af622e71f4af-1.jpg?ex=66488184&is=66473004&hm=fbd1577e0bea2cc2e771f87efe8aa258df8ddfcd66df14ba6b620c1c17f358cd&

bolter's ammo is fine

tthi sisnt even a "look at how skilled ia m'

you can get this many kills

with taking this much ammo

its perfectly fine

you cant outskill ammo or create ammo issues (except by missing)

[agile forge]

Just let me have fun with this wonderful build path they blessed us with, k?

[bitter turtle]

just stop hipfiring it

the hipfire is shit now

has been ever since pinning nerf

[hidden torrent]

I wish the bolter was more fun to use tbh, I'd like to use it, but using it is an exercise in stoicism

[bitter turtle]

like

i get that its a flavor fail

[wind grotto]

oh I enjoy playing gunker a lot, it's just there are so many fucking gunkers in damnation and auric damnation running around just mag dumping constantly and it's a really annoying issue

[bitter turtle]

ppl want bolter to be the yee haw full auto dump

[agile forge]

It's fun as fuck, it's strong, and brainlets act like you're a moron if you take it

[bitter turtle]

its just not how vet uses it rn

play zealot if you want to yee haw

[wind grotto]

no, I want the bolter to not feel like a much worse revolver

[agile forge]

Yeah, gun is like 1/3 of your kit in gunker

Assail and melee both gotta do a lot of work too

[bitter turtle]

everything is a much worse version of one of the literal two most broken guns rn

[agile forge]

And get huge boosts from your shit too

[tall torrent]

ammo spawn got increased with the same patch that survivalist got nerfed iirc

[hidden torrent]

Bolter is widely considered the worst gun in the game rn

[bitter turtle]

by who

wtf

[tall torrent]

No

[elder fiber]

?

[bitter turtle]

redditors?

[wind grotto]

oh it's nowhere near the worst, it's not good but it's not the worst

[elder fiber]

Recons exist

[bitter turtle]

its perfectly fine

[elder fiber]

OG krourk stubber

[bitter turtle]

balance wise

[hidden torrent]

Whether it's true or not im just telling you an observation I see

[bitter turtle]

its just a flavor fail

it could use a slight dmg buff to 1tap ragers imo

[hidden torrent]

Not personal opinion

[bitter turtle]

that's it in terms of balans

its a flavor fail yes

bc everyone wants to hipfire it

but it needs to be used like a sniper

but power wise it is fine

[wind grotto]

it needs better sights if they want it to not be hipfired is the biggest issue

[tall torrent]

Bring back boltgun open bulwarks in 1 shot

[bitter turtle]

they could bring that back ye

still

[wind grotto]

the bulwark stagger change feels real bad still imo

[bitter turtle]

these are not balance issues so severe that its a bad gun

and anyway

the discussion started bc of surv nerf

surv nerf does not ruin bolter ammo economy

that's just factually false

its perfectly fine

the only guns that suffered are like fucking shredder autopistol

because they do so little dmg

you gotta dump like 2 clips to do anything

[uneven hawk]

Honestly

[bitter turtle]

exaggeration but

[wind grotto]

yeah heavily disagree there, since now you're just pretending like it's now a sharpshooter gun that is worse than other sharpshooter guns

and thats how it's fine with surv changes

[bitter turtle]

im not pretending

[hidden torrent]

Watching people magdump bulwark shield on Auric Maelstrom makes me feel like https://tenor.com/view/ghost-cod-call-of-duty-mw2-ghost-staring-gif-27690492

[bitter turtle]

the playtester that pushed a lot of bolter changes

specifically wanted it to be a sharpshooter gun

[tall torrent]

Because it is a sharpshooter gun that’s worse than other sharpshooter guns

[bitter turtle]

that's the intention

[uneven hawk]

I'd rather get staggered a few meters rather than taking a ridiculous amount of damage like that rot shield from vermintide

[bitter turtle]

i dont agree with the intention

but it is what it is

[wind grotto]

yeah I keep seeing it happen and it fucking sucks

[bitter turtle]

if you dont wanna use it as a dmr just use a different gun rn

apparently the playtester in question thinks they went too far anyway

according to zealot chat

if you're wondering why, bolter has ultra high finesse values rn

so it really needs to headshot

so hipfiring just is gonna not be a good time

[hidden torrent]

I haven't used the bolter in a long time but the ads firing was buggy, felt like an extra jolt of recoil on the third shot as if the firearm shot an additional time

[bitter turtle]

unless you're zealot because fotf just fixes every problem

[frank ether]

so are they gonna reduce finesse and buff base damage

its gonna become even better for zealot then

[bitter turtle]

no idea

[agile forge]

Also dance of death

[frank ether]

I don't even know what will change about it I just biased myself into thinking they'll make it a zealot gun

[wanton dawn]

Worse gun is recon 2

[agile forge]

Tbh, ruin the FotF armour drop and make bolter stronger like that so it doesn't need it you know lol

[frank ether]

because every single hipfire weapon is already a zealot gun

[agile forge]

I like the idea of it being a zealot gun more anyway

[frank ether]

why the fuck would it go any differently for bolter

[agile forge]

They're Jimmy Space's #1 fans

[bitter turtle]

anyway, if you jump through the hoops, i think bolter is only slightly worse than V7 rn

like if v7 is an A, i think bolter is B

arbitrary rating

its not that bad

[frank ether]

its better than v7 in my eyes

[bitter turtle]

good players in here keep telling me they prefer bolter anyway

lol

[frank ether]

though I guess recent bulwark changes did take away some of its utility

you can't meme on a bulwark pain train like you used to

[tall torrent]

It’s outclassed by v7 in most categories

Better boss dmg and that’s about it

[bitter turtle]

well, exec bolter can bodyshot 1tap is what someone was debating me on

which yeah

its true

[frank ether]

v7 is also better on a zealot

[tall torrent]

Ig that’s a plus

[bitter turtle]

i dont think so, zealot v7 is gonna struggle to hit a lot of 1taps

fotf into spam a crusher head with DA and HH might be better but that sounds kinda meme

like why not just take

[frank ether]

its a spam weapon regardless

[bitter turtle]

literally anything else

i dont really agree but i know you prefer HH

over surg

[frank ether]

its already a spam weapon on veteran

sit there with your

zero pen DMR

servers decide you miss 3 times in a row

[tall torrent]

This is what I have for Boltgun in my guide rn

[bitter turtle]

i guess i just live close to th eservers

since i dont have that problem :^)

i get ghost hits sometimes but nothing so severe it tilts me usually

[frank ether]

I see a lot more bolters than I see v7's

[bitter turtle]

yeah

you also see recon users a lot

doesnt really speak to the strength of the gun

bolter is THE wh40k weapon

[frank ether]

no, bolter users tend to do ok

well, zealots that is

veterans dont

but thats just par for the course

for veteran class

and its playerbase

[bitter turtle]

random autogun rifle is not gonna be a popular gun no matter what

revolver = katana of guns
plasma = beeg gun
bolter = iconic

[frank ether]

veteran could be given an instant I win button and some people would still fuck that up

as with the recent VoC bug which was literally the case

[bitter turtle]

well

the voc bug was broken as fug but doesnt really solve why most ppl die

cause they dont know how to deal with specialists

[tall torrent]

Any changes here

[bitter turtle]

uh

special action is bash

not flashlight

[frank ether]

boltgun doesnt have a flashlight

[tall torrent]

Oh lol lemme fix

[elder fiber]

boltgun fleshlight

[bitter turtle]

kinky

[tall torrent]

Anything else

Radar chart, recommended build, etc

[bitter turtle]

is ammo rating the clip size orammo economy

i know i sound like a broken record

but its really quite ammo efficient

unless you miss

well

[tall torrent]

Ammo economy

[bitter turtle]

you do need surv though

[wanton dawn]

Surv nerf hit it hard

[bitter turtle]

the scoreboard i posted is post nerf

i really think its fine

if you can do 300k ranged dmg in a game and only pick up 3 small and 2 large bag its really fine

p sure we skipped over ammo too since the other guys didnt hoof up like 16+ or whatever

[tall torrent]

Here’s the ammo rating for the low ammo pool guns

Boltgun: 2
Plasma: 2
Lawbringer: 3
Agripinaa shotgun: 4
Kantrael shotgun: 3
Zarona revolver: 3

[bitter turtle]

i think agri should be lower personally but

cause

the normal shots can sometimes require 2

bad spread/long range/etc

[tall torrent]

If Agripinaa is lower then Lawbringer and Kantrael both drop to 2

[bitter turtle]

well

idk about them really

i only played meme bleed kant

and dont play lawbringer

js

i picked up less ammo on bolter

than i do on agri shot

i also think the more out of control a game goes the worse agri shotguna mmo efficiency gets

less time to load slugs = more need to do normal shots

disproportionately worse i mean*

[tall torrent]

Right

[bitter turtle]

if you're shooting something like a rager too, if you miss the headshots it can take 3 shots even

[trim hemlock]

Fast swap tech mentions a “battery pack” - it probably should be magazine

[bitter turtle]

its p bad if it gets to that in ammo efficiency

[tall torrent]

Yea fixed

[hidden torrent]

Hotshot volley gun on backpack for vet when

[trim hemlock]

Whenever FS ports over Crank gun from Vermintide 2

[hidden torrent]

HOT TAKE INCOMING People might get mad, but Gluggers ability should literally be outcast engineer with a heavy bolter

It's fine to have class passives that make the normal guns better on glugger too don't get me wrong

[midnight totem]

I approve

[hidden torrent]

Wait till you see what happens when you say that in Ogryn chat

[trim hemlock]

By the way @tall torrent shouldn’t Bolter’s stability be mentioned in either high or low priority category, or are just not all modifiers listed in the new version, i.e., only the most important ones and the least important ones?

[midnight totem]

Why what happens?

[hidden torrent]

If you critize Ogryn it goes from friendly to not so friendly real fast lmao

Or suggest something different that doesn't align

[tall torrent]

High stability doesn’t magically make it a low recoil gun

[bitter turtle]

i dont really notice a diff at high vs low stab

[midnight totem]

It's not even a critique

[tall torrent]

It’s not like headhunter where high stability makes a world of difference vs low stability

[wanton dawn]

Mald ogryn are a sight to behold indeed

[inland orchid]

mm yes give ogryn grenade regen like engineer, then we'll have demolition team pre-fix

[bitter turtle]

lemme take a vid

[hidden torrent]

God I'd bust

[inland orchid]

fr

[trim hemlock]

I suppose it depends on who you get to discuss the matters with, but Ogryn chat is fairly chill, typically

[hidden torrent]

Last time I suggested what I said people flamed me for 30 minutes lmao