veteran-class

[vague lintel]

given general player power i agree 100%

[radiant chasm]

Player power too high

[tall torrent]

How do u want to nerf v7

[radiant chasm]

If mkia 3 shot consistently and needed to climb for it’s 2shots

Then mk12 is good again

[white minnow]

whatever nerfs follow the spirit of this sentence

[trim hemlock]

Give it Mg12 Bolter sight bounce

[radiant chasm]

This is a quantum joke

[tall torrent]

V7 already follows that sentence

[rigid pilot]

The real answer? Nerf vet talents

They got too many good ones that even start to bump weapons towards thing they shouldn't aspire to

[radiant chasm]

Nerf players, each time you start a mission you get a random infection that gives debuff and have to cure with aquilas

[tall torrent]

If that’s what you want to go with, nerf guns’ base dmg and buff vet’s +dmg talents
In the end you achieve the same results of the same talents being picked to get the same breakpoints
Except that gun gets worse for zealot/psyker who don’t really take it much in the first place

[rigid pilot]

On a zealot or psyker you wouldn't be thinking about mg12 one tapping flamers

[white minnow]

alright, "should take marksman focus to reach some oneshots instead of being able to hit gunner/flamer oneshots w/o it"

[rigid pilot]

Psyker might be able to with max DD stacks actually

[white minnow]

prob not flamers

[rigid pilot]

DD too good

[tall torrent]

Yea because suppression for infantry Lasgun sucks gigantic balls

[radiant chasm]

Dd scriers psyker borderlines vet bonuses

[rigid pilot]

Oh yea that too

[radiant chasm]

Suppression is not an issue balance wise lol

[rigid pilot]

Unusable lmao

I never run iLas on anything other than vets

[radiant chasm]

Oh that suppression

Sorry

[tall torrent]

Like, just think about this

[radiant chasm]

Thought you meant the other way around suppression

Plus. Zealot typically goes revolver for mobility or a full auto weapon to use with fury of the faithful

[white minnow]

damn good thing i already preempted this #veteran-class message

i'm not considering strictly nerfs to the gun itself

whichever is the problematic element

[radiant chasm]

That was a quantum joke

[tall torrent]

Yea and MG12’s issue is the gun itself

[radiant chasm]

I’m only as serious as a possible reality

How the timeline flows will decide if i am being serious or not

[tall torrent]

I think what ur saying is fair to an extent

[rigid pilot]

Case study: would zealots ever take a MG12

[white minnow]

if it hits BPs

prolly not even with duellist

[rigid pilot]

But with the suppression

[radiant chasm]

We used to

[tall torrent]

Used to, no reason now

[radiant chasm]

Back when revolver was hot ass

[rigid pilot]

It doesn't even fit the counter sniping role

[radiant chasm]

Uhh wouldnt go that far

[white minnow]

there's dance of the death

[radiant chasm]

Mk12 still anti sniper

[rigid pilot]

Oh yea

[tall torrent]

There is just no reason to take MG12 other than u specifically want to play with it

[white minnow]

oh i thought this was assuming if suppression was nerfed

i'm never using anything that uses ADS on zealot

not in my life

[radiant chasm]

Dance of death is more for fully automatic guns

[tall torrent]

1a still does that job better

[vague lintel]

suppression is an ass mechanic

[rigid pilot]

I'll just take a laspis

[tall torrent]

That’s if u even consider infantry Lasguns

[vague lintel]

this i dont think anyone would deny

[radiant chasm]

Not really? It’s the same for both no?

It’s not an mk12 issue specifically like the BPs

[tall torrent]

MG12 can’t 1 bodyshot sniper

[radiant chasm]

Mk12 still handles the bomber and sniper fine

[tall torrent]

[rigid pilot]

Add suppression to psyker staves

[tall torrent]

So 1a which 2 taps the same is just better

[rigid pilot]

Void staff should start wobbling

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/blade-runner-rutger-hauer-tears-in-the-rain-gif-3449960

[tall torrent]

I told u it needs like straight up 25~30% Dmg buff

And arco doesn’t believe me

[white minnow]

i really do not

[tall torrent]

MG12 lost like every single bodyshot breakpoint it had before patch 13

[white minnow]

my stance is marksman exists
and that taking talents for some bps should be the norm

and Ia is going to be the better generalist anyways

[tall torrent]

Well I guess if u count 2 bodyshot flamer (with +maniac, which 1a can’t do ever) as a major upside then MG12 is better in that regard

[white minnow]

the fact that oneshots can be hit in the first place is quite a luxury because you don't have to deal with the god awful thing that is enemy stagger

and should be treated as a luxury

[tall torrent]

The thing is, 1a with the same exact investment still does everything better because it’ll get the same 1 taps

Except scab rager 1HS crit ig

But that’s a niche condition on an enemy with wobbly head

So even with all the talent investment it’s not as good as other guns with same/more talent investment

[white minnow]

is this considering crit bps now

[tall torrent]

If you’re considering the marksman focus set-up

Then yea 1a can reach 1 taps

[white minnow]

so that's not everything strictly better because that's considering crit bps
i'll just say that crits should also be annihilated

why are you even bringing up crits when consistency is your shtick anyways

[tall torrent]

The only thing MG12 would do better than 1a in a marksman focus set-up is being able to crit headshot 1 tap scab rager (and this is a very wonky breakpoint practically speaking because it’s just hard to hit)

[wraith flare]

I haven’t read everything cause I’m working but do I smell copium

[tall torrent]

So it actually just does everything better than mg12

With the same set-up

And is generalist better

[wraith flare]

I always smell copium here

[white minnow]

yes i agree that Ia is going to be better in general

that has been something that i said at the very start

[tall torrent]

The only niche you could carve out for mg12 is invalidated

[wraith flare]

Let’s just get the facts straight, lasgun bad, me good

[white minnow]

the niche i was remarking about was non-crit weakspot BPs

[tall torrent]

Because MG1a is still better in that regard

Non-Crit weakspot breakpoints

1a gets to hit the same breakpoints

[white minnow]

with rending strike taken?

[tall torrent]

No, actually

[white minnow]

i'm considering only the minimal set of talents with the talent tree that i took

[tall torrent]

1a doesn’t need rending strikes to hit the same BP

[white minnow]

my other stance is that some guns are just ultimately going to be niche as well because of BPs and do not deserve a buff to be made non-niche

in a game with as many weapons as it has

[wraith flare]

Why pick niche gun when I can pick a good gun

[white minnow]

you can

but a +25-30% buff is obviously going to disjoint it from the weapon family that it belongs to

some guns are going to be taken more often from an optimality viewpoint because of BPs and that's fine

[rigid pilot]

Maybe if they give mg12 something else other than damage

Cleave is one cool idea

But maybe innate suppression immunity to let zealots and psykers run it

But these invisible mechanics just add to the arcane and obscure nature of darktide

[white minnow]

annihilate the spread increase frrom suppression

so that i can actually counteract the sway with my own aim and pewpew

[vague lintel]

no

[white minnow]

i hold a screenshot frrom the other server over your head

[vague lintel]

i bet you do arco

i bet you do

[muted knot]

Keep your degenerate screenshots, this ain't #zealot-class

[grand perch]

Just give MG12 baseline burn stacks on all hits. It still doesn't hit BPs but at least you get to burn heretics for free

[sturdy zephyr]

Krispy!

[shadow dagger]

this worth grabbing?

havent done touched my bounties this week, the currency shouldnt be an issue

[agile forge]

It looks pretty good to me, will check the guide

According to the numbers cat, you want Surgical and Weight of Fire, and any 2 of Elites, Flak and Maniac

you have Elites and Surgical so it's not a brick

Imo grab that fucker

[frank ether]

I agree, sway is one thing but spread is too brutal

for MG12 it is anyway

[frank ether]

so if you have literallly nothing better sure but its not as good of a roll as you could get

the ammo and stability rolls are not that relevant for helbores but because of the breakpoint heavy nature of them

you want damage and stopping as high as it can go really

elite is not that bad though, you could do flak+elite and replace falter with weight of fire for a decent gun

[shadow dagger]

yeah I haven't used helbores so it isn't a big deal if I skip

I guess I can just roll a better one later down the line if that changes

[frank ether]

I mean with the recent buffs whatever breakpoint you're lacking I imagine between exe stance and marksman focus it would be no biggie

so if you're ok with a not so godroll go for it

I don't want to say go for brunt because its complete RNG and don't want you to feel bad if you spend a million ordos and end up with nothing to show for it lmao

[agile forge]

79 73 is pretty high right

Does that still fail to reach a breakpoint

[frank ether]

yeah, its really not that bad

[agile forge]

If you won't settle for less than 80s in all important stats then you're gonna be sitting at that slot machine for a long time

[frank ether]

That is true, I did gamble a lot for my helbores

funnily enough it was hadron that was the issue not brunt for helbore rolling though

[shadow aurora]

Why is your name blue?

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-what-is-wrong-with-you-why-are-you-blue-brba-breaking-bad-gif-26777019

[viscid sparrow]

they haven't been here for long enough to get image perms

[shadow aurora]

Plush has been here for a long time

He mustve left and joined back

Bot should carry over perms

[tame lodge]

Pretty sure there's someone with 20K messages but still blue

[shadow aurora]

Bot is notoriously unreliable

[bitter turtle]

he rage quit for a while after getting fucked by hadron slots

rashad 😔

[untold mulch]

1 point of damage

[wanton dawn]

I think it is less "still blue" and more "no longer red"

As far as right attribution goes

[tall torrent]

buff it enough that it can reach 1 taps with less investment so you get a contrast between 1a and 12
1a: faster firing, reliable 2 tap, takes a ton of investment to get 1 taps (it actually requires MF to an extent)
12: slower firing, close to 1 tap, takes less investment to get 1 taps

since killzone is somewhat required for 12's breakpoint and it's just unreliable (MF at least you can engage with its mechanics to get the 1 taps by committing to that playstyle)

and killzone is a pretty big 15%

the estimated dmg buff needed is going to be somewhere in the 20~30% range

I say 30% because I ran breakpoint tests with flak + maniac on a near max dmg stat MG12 and if that's the only way to achieve the 1 taps, it's way too harsh on RNG

[white minnow]

i assume that's not considering marksman focus

[tall torrent]

if killzone was better this breakpoint would be less harsh as well

even if u just consider it from dps standpoint, MG12 shoots like 45% slower than 1a

[white minnow]

to me, killzone is for hitting ranged enemy BPs since you're fighting ubiquitous groups of enemies at a time mostly

[white minnow]

sure

but my goal is different in that i'm not aiming to make every weapon competitive

some weapons are going to live or die in terms of BPs, and that's fine

[tall torrent]

guess we just have different philosophies altogether

[white minnow]

the game has a bunch of different weapons and marks are just going to be minor stat differences for the most part as a consequence of the 3 mark system that they've set up

should've just been one infantry lasgun but that's how it is
but since we are in such a system and this weapon family is not like the headhunters where each gun has meaningful differences, I don't care for making the infantry lasgun have each mark being competitive

[tall torrent]

I personally don't agree that some weapons should just be inferior to others

[white minnow]

sure but Ia and mg12 are just minorly different and I don't see the need to disjoint it that much from the rest of the two other marks

[hidden torrent]

^ I've always been vocal about this

The bigger issue is that some weapons don't have enough identity

[somber axle]

It's less that the Mk XII is bad and more that the Mg1a and Mk IV are both so good that from a DPS perspective they leave the Mk XII behind big time. Unless you prefer the feel of the weapon there's not really a reason to pick up the Mk XII over the Mg1a other than a few breakpoints it can do in one less shot but the TTK is comparable regardless and for boss DPS the Mg1a will outclass it

[hidden torrent]

Hey cat how you been, haven't seen you in here in a minute

[tall torrent]

no, MG12 without 1 tap is irrelevant and TTK is not comparable

[somber axle]

Same reason why the Columnus Braced Autogun is ignored. It's not Shredder Autopistol tier but the other options are just objectively better numbers wise (though not by a HUGE margin other than certain armour types like I think Flak according to a DPS table someone posted before)

[tall torrent]

same shots to kill, shoot 45% slower

[hidden torrent]

I don't mind the braced with raking fire I think it's called?

The back shots actually do quite a lot

It's definitely a more niche playstyle

[somber axle]

Yeah I meant the 1 tap potential gives it similar TTK because the Mg1a is firing fast enough that the difference isn't even whole number seconds afaik

[tall torrent]

braced autoguns don't have raking fire

[hidden torrent]

Whichever one does the extra back-shot damage dunno what it's called then

[somber axle]

That's raking fire

[tall torrent]

it's not similar ttk because it's either 45% slower (ouch) or instant

[hidden torrent]

Did they remove it?

[tall torrent]

they never had raking fire to begin with

ur thinking of autopistol

[somber axle]

Instant kill Mk XII vs like near instant kill on Mg1a from fast shots

[hidden torrent]

I guess I'm just misremembering then, it was Def a columnus

[tall torrent]

it really is not

[white minnow]

though you're always going to have to balance the higher damage variants in some way for sheer ease of use

[somber axle]

Mg1a only needs 2-3 shots on heads with Deadly Accurate to put down most specials/elites yeah? And fire rate puts them down pretty fast too as long as someone is good at clicking heads

[tall torrent]

2

[hidden torrent]

There's still ways you can make them different, a shove, bayonet, accurate hip fire etc etc

[somber axle]

That's what I mean then. Mk XII with a 1HKO isn't really killing something all that faster than a Mg1a killing in 2

[white minnow]

but that's also encroaching onto other weapons as well
i'm not putting a bayonet on the infan las

like, this isn't just a "balance between pure numbers thing"

[somber axle]

And for crowds of elites/specials the faster fire rate is going to put them down with a comparable TTK

[hidden torrent]

Isn't it technically 100% faster to play devils advocate

[tall torrent]

0ms TTK is quite different from 275ms TTK

[hidden torrent]

Or 50

I don't math

[white minnow]

it's why the mg12 and mgIa have the same DPS into unyielding but the mg12 has worse DPS into everything else

[tall torrent]

sure, u can limit it in other areas besides dmg

[somber axle]

On single target yes but that slower fire rate on the Mk XII means for multi target the Mg1a fire rate is compensating somewhat

[white minnow]

that's not what i'm saying

damage is specifically how they're limiting the mg12

[hidden torrent]

Imo you should be able to if you like, put on a scope, Bayonett, light, or of you have none it gun butts

[tall torrent]

and that's exactly how it's inferior

[somber axle]

I think they should make it the most ammo efficient version tbh

If they want to limit it damage-wise give it a niche to set it apart from the other two

Better ammo economy is one place they go could

[white minnow]

the niche is being able to hit non-crit oneshots more easily

[somber axle]

Another is giving it better damage and cleave

[white minnow]

the very niche that you are describing already exists

[tall torrent]

unless u have near-zero aim transfer time, 1a doesn't have that much of an edge vs multi target

[somber axle]

That doesn't really feel like a strong enough niche to set it apart from the others tbh

[somber axle]

Yeah and that's why I said comparable TTK

[tall torrent]

no, it is a good niche (except it's not very good at it)

[white minnow]

that's just how you're going to have to balance variants of essentialyl the same gun but with different damage/firerate

[hidden torrent]

You're kinda running into the issue that there is so many las-gun marks that most are kinda un-identafiable to the a average person

[somber axle]

I didn't say it had an edge, just that they're not really killing things much faster or slower

[hidden torrent]

It's like ammo in tarkov

[white minnow]

because you have to factor in the time that you're switching targets

[tall torrent]

mg12 is the worst 1 tap gun for veteran rn

[trim hemlock]

Question: how easy of a time does mg12 have re: oneshotting shooters in the body, if at all?

[tall torrent]

not possible

[trim hemlock]

Bring that back

Fixed gun

[tall torrent]

patch 13 turbo fucked mg12 breakpoints

[somber axle]

It feels boring to me as a clown tbh. I want it to have more feeling than just the ability to 1HKO a few targets the Mg1a needs 2 shots to put down when the fire rate puts it leagues behind on DPS for beefier threats

[trim hemlock]

Let it karking specialise into EZ shooter kills

[hidden torrent]

As someone who also knows that you say you're a clown, you also use recon Las guns, so it makes sense you like fire-rate

[somber axle]

Yes but I have a special place in my heart for the Mk XII because it was the beta fav for new Darktide players and post launch was basically meta LMFAO

The Mg1a and Mk IV were both trash during the early days

[hidden torrent]

It was all I used on vet

[tall torrent]

they could make it bodyshot 1 tap shooters and headshot 1 tap flamers & gunners (without too much investment)

then it sets itself apart from V7 (very high investment, no bodyshot breakpoint, faster firing) and HB2 (lower investment, has bodyshot breakpoint by default, bayonet funny)

[somber axle]

I still love the Mk XII for how good it felt then

It doesn't really feel that different now either honestly just that the other options feel better

[hidden torrent]

It doesn't need massive changes to make it very viable, it's already not far off, higher body damage tbh

[tall torrent]

but as it stands MG12 is by far the worst 1 tap gun for veteran and it's straight up not relevant on non-vet classes

[somber axle]

That sounds neat but I also wonder if the reason it can't do that is because they want the design to revolve around headshots, not body shots

[trim hemlock]

not headshots

plasma

[tall torrent]

bodyshot shooters with exe stance up

[trim hemlock]

[tall torrent]

plasma unironically requires headshot for 1 taps

sorry

[hidden torrent]

Not to throw too much shade, they have console users playing now, body shots is something they should consider

[somber axle]

But then someone is forgoing VoC or Infiltrate so sacrifice survivability/team support for more power so the tradeoff feels intentional there

[tall torrent]

that's fine

[trim hemlock]

I think one regular ilas should lean into body shot/centre of mass oneshot territory

[tall torrent]

u get ease of use

[white minnow]

no

[tall torrent]

by playing a bit squishier

[somber axle]

Yeah and probably why it can do that with Exe Stance

But not without

[trim hemlock]

I can’t outsmart path.exe, I have fallen and became an Ogryn main 😔

[hidden torrent]

Ogryns have Ogrynomicon

They're usually pretty smart players

[trim hemlock]

Why not, though?

Make it have expensive shots

[tall torrent]

keeping them finesse orientated is intentional

[white minnow]

because that would trivialize enemy shooters EVEN MORE and there's always the option to just hit the head of a target that just stands still

[inland orchid]

We got cool vet one thanks to the gato in chat

He busted his ass and then some writing all sorts of stuff

[white minnow]

players who get to put in some minimum effort of aiming get to benefit from one-tapping ranged trash

[somber axle]

Yeah! Numbers cat wrote the guide in pins and is close to finish a version 2 of the Vet guide I think!

[old quail]

the problem is a weapon that is good into shooters isn't something people even particularly care about with how the game is structured right now

[trim hemlock]

With how many other options there are and how rare true long-range combat is? Definitely.

[old quail]

toughness regeneration is significantly higher than it was previously and in most ways shooters have been changed to be made easier/less abundant

[trim hemlock]

Yeah, but then MG12 doesn’t have a niche to excel in over 1a, besides UY damage, no? (I feel like that’s what the discussion between you and Arco has been)

[white minnow]

it excels in UY damage to compensate for the lower fire rate

their unyielding DPS is roughly the same

but the mg12 has been intentionally nerfed in the other armour types to compensate for its better ease of use

[tall torrent]

I'm saying it needs easier access to 1 tap breakpoint because it's just inferior to every other 1 tap gun and MG1a

[white minnow]

and i'm saying to just take marksman focus and call it a day

[grand perch]

im with numbers in that the mg12 should just cleave through enemies like helbore. maybe give it an even huger ammo pool as well. stupidly high so you can even fire into trash hordes with no issue

[tall torrent]

we don't need it to fire through trash horde

[white minnow]

take +10% elite/+25% maniac or whatevs and there you go for consistent BPs with marksman regardless of falloff

[tiny summit]

I think we need less 1 tap meta across the board

[grand perch]

nah its just a bonus

[old quail]

i think what they should do is give every gun the awful scope the infantry lasgun has with all the same sight misalignment issues

[somber axle]

I've been seeing what feels like a weird number of gunners/shotgunners/reapers in matches lately and groups that just have no good long range option hurt LOL
Trying to do certain penances on Zealot/Ogryn were particularly painful when my usual go to weapons for Vet clean house ezpz

even funnier seeing some players just go down to non-elite shooters

absolute insanity in quickplay lately

[tall torrent]

I'm cool with having the overall meta be 2~3 shots to kill
except that's more nerfing weapons themselves and buffing +dmg talents so in the end u take more or less the same talents to achieve the same breakpoints

[tall torrent]

also my idea for cleave is purely for being able to shoot through teammates

[old quail]

the answer is to play knife zealot and simply be faster than the bullets

[white minnow]

but it's not the same and it's only the same when you include crit BPs

which just feels disingenuous coming from someone who constantly touts consistency

[somber axle]

that worked while I was doing Loner penance, not so much for when I wasn't running knife though

[grand perch]

killing several incoming ragers tho

https://tenor.com/view/borat-borat-very-nice-verynice-thumbs-up-gif-25080066

[tall torrent]

1a vs 12?

[white minnow]

ye

[tall torrent]

the only major breakpoint difference with MF is that 12 gets to hit scab rager 1 crit headshot

1a can 1 tap both gunners & both flamers just like 12

[white minnow]

that's not the same investment though

because the mg12 can just do it with the talent tree i posted

whereas you have to take some extra for mgIa

[tall torrent]

yea and u wanted extra investment to reach certain breakpoints

so 1a is fine in that regard

[white minnow]

yeah, and the mg12 takes less investment for it

which frees up your options to take other stuff

[tall torrent]

less investment, still confined to a specific keystone (and specific playstyle)

still more investment than other 1 tap weapons

and doesn't do nearly as good as v7 which also takes very high investment

[white minnow]

yeah if people want to get one-taps then they should have to take a single keystone

[grand perch]

different approach: every vet with mg12 lasgun gets another 49 recruits also with lasguns that follow them and shoot the same things

[white minnow]

and they still don't have to take the upgrades for it

you shouldn't get one-taps for free for a good portion of enemies for just any old build and playstyle

you are adjusted too much to the absurd power level that we currently have

like, just dip a single point into marksman and that's it

it's not asking for much, and i consider that a good and respectable niche of the mg12

and i doubt everyone is a god gamer who can switch between targets for the notable fire rate difference between the mg12 and mgIa to actually meaningfully matter

[tall torrent]

that's fair, ig being able to take any melee talent on a sharpshooter build is strict no no

[white minnow]

i legitimately do just think that it is completely fine where it is

[old quail]

dont u know vraks 7 fire rate needs to be nerfed because u can kill 4 dudes a second

[white minnow]

i consider this a reasonable mg12 tree that gets the gunner/flamer oneshots and scab rager two-shot (w/ +10% elite & +25% maniac if you don't want to lose the flamer one-shot at closer ranges)

[old quail]

im hurt u pathed through the 5% health instead of the +1 stam

[tall torrent]

yea, no frag or surv on a sharpshooter build, a bit limiting but I see that

that's 29/30

[white minnow]

though surv doesn't matter with infantry lasguns

[tall torrent]

u can alleviate the need for it with shock troop

[white minnow]

it straight up does not matter

there is more than enough ammo on the map for it

[white minnow]

it's 30/30 unfortunately

either way, the point is that you can indeed get +10% melee attack speed by dipping into kraks into VoC instead of frags

[viscid sparrow]

not if your teammates are all running ammo-inefficient guns

[tall torrent]

oh nvm I forgot abt suppression immunity

mb

[white minnow]

god it still does not matter because you are not going to likely get teammates who are running ammo inefficient guns + are looting + are people who don't relent ammo

the boogeyman of the teammate who steals ammo is just a silly because when the fuck are your teammates ever looting

[old quail]

my teammates gun does not matter

i vacuum all the bullets up

[hearty panther]

everyone pretends their teammates are three gunluggers with their m1 taped down and that survivalist was somehow made for this reason

[old quail]

except for that 1 game this morning where the speedload/stripped down ciag zealot took a big ammo while i was killing specials next to us

that was disgusting

[tall torrent]

it's pretty hard to run completely out on 12

[viscid sparrow]

fair point

[white minnow]

so tragic

pour one out for the gunlugger achlys ogryns

[old quail]

😔

[tall torrent]

I'll try this thx

[white minnow]

if only i didn't have to take kraks

[viscid sparrow]

I think I once played as a gunker on Ascension Riser, and all 3 of my teammates were gunluggers (two of which had achlys iirc)

so if I had been a vet in that session, it would have been painful...

[white minnow]

my vraks 7 tree is almost the same besides taking weapon spec instead of marksman since i don't need it for gunner bps, though I'm missing out on the flamer one-shot

[tall torrent]

but like srsly tho can we reduce teammate hitmass so they cannot block any shots from our guns

[tall marsh]

This is in the shop. I never used a hellbore before though

[old quail]

they made the worst possible friendly fire adjacent system possible

at least if u could damage teammates people would have to learn to not position stupidly

[white minnow]

a lot of guns coincidentally having 1.5 cleave, 0.5 too little to hit through teammates :)

hnhnhnnhnghhn

[tall torrent]

buff them to 2.1 honestly

[hearty panther]

just enough for groaners

[tall torrent]

like, please

2.1 doesn't even go through 2 poxwalkers

[somber axle]

that's a really good roll for a Mk III imo

the bayonet swing is awful so it may turn you off to it

but otherwise a very serviceable weapon

[merry snow]

I mean if you roll pubs, expect everyone to be loot goblins/goblinas

[tall marsh]

Thank you, will play around with it and the other hellbores to experiment later.

[merry snow]

Most peeps don't give a darn, I know I don't

[somber axle]

Mk I is the easiest to build, Mk II is the hardest to build
Mk III is fun for 1HKO breakpoint on Crushers
Mk I and Mk II have the fast bayonet stab that everyone loves
Mk III has the weird bayonet swing most people hate
Mk II is my overall fav for how crazy it gets when you get a god roll

[tall torrent]

they're all around the same to build if ur going for peak performance

[somber axle]

You'll for sure want Surgical (basically mandatory) and Weight of Fire (less important with the Mk II and a higher charge rate stat) regardless of which Helbore you grab

[tall torrent]

and no I don't rly care for Hb3 funny crusher 1 shot

[somber axle]

Mk III has very, very different breakpoints to a Mk II

Mk II wants unarmoured/maniac for dreg gunner/flamer 1HKO breakpoints

the others don't need that

[tall torrent]

the perks taken are ironically similar

[somber axle]

except you don't want or need unarmoured on a Mk I or Mk III

so you can also go for funny Crusher 1HKO

[tall torrent]

mk2 can get it with elite

mk1 wants elite/maniac

mk3 also wants elite/maniac

[somber axle]

Depends on the stat roll because there was someone here trying to make a 67% damage stat Mk II work and was JUUUUST shy of their 1HKO Dreg Gunner head breakpoint

so they needed unarmoured to hit that

vs elite would leave them too far behind to catch it

I vaguely remember them saying they were like 20-ish damage shy of the kill LOL

[tall torrent]

did they have redirect fire up

[somber axle]

like yeah at that point you can just roll another one with better damage stat but also depending on dockets/plasteel that may not be an immediate option

[somber axle]

no idea tbh I just give advice to people as they come with this chat

btw 20-ish damage shy of the kill was with +20% unarmoured

idk if Redirect Fire buff with 10% elite would be enough to hit

[tall torrent]

oh lol

[somber axle]

they swapped the 20% unarmoured to 25% unarmoured so they don't have to care about shots around redirect fire though

[tall torrent]

then yea prob the 67% dmg at fault

[somber axle]

yeah the 67% damage stat was sad for an otherwise very good looking Mk II

good perks, good blessings

but the damage stat roll was pain

OH ALSO

for someone curious about Crusher 1HKO with the Mk III Helbore...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1230360434029105192/xhpMWku.png?ex=66457e72&is=66442cf2&hm=d2ca2058d5baebfc24c89cd886a737bb83ed2a5ff0f65af8d55276cbf29acdde&

because I'm sure others love the idea of 1HKO on Crushers

hate crushers, kill crushers

https://tenor.com/view/cat-pillow-bite-angry-angry-cat-gif-25541136

[bitter turtle]

its me

im that gunlugger

i literally held m1 down through the entire map to finish munitorum's favor

id shoot at walls just to scoop up more ammo without wasting any

[hidden torrent]

Me irl when I'm an angry cat

[somber axle]

that's just me irl

[hidden torrent]

I don't see no clown nose

[late hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-roll-out-transformers-cat-roll-cat-summersault-cat-roll-guanabana-gif-5822588012989863064

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/tadc-pomni-the-amazing-digital-circus-gif-17210051670981836387

wait WHERE IS IT

[hidden torrent]

Well that's a Jester, which didn't have clown noses

So canonically it makes sense

[somber axle]

yeah but Sneaky Clown rolls off the tongue better than Sneaky Jester

or Sneaky Harlequin

[hidden torrent]

Well it would depend on the sect of harlequin, but I think those 2 things are opposites lmao

I actually kinda like sneaky Jester ngl

[somber axle]

yeah but Jesters exist to mock others while clowns exist to be mocked so it's not on brand for me

maybe my WoW/TF2 era messing with people in Rogue PvP/Spy shenanigans

but not anymore

[hidden torrent]

No one mocks you, you're too wholesome

[somber axle]

HAH

no

I am definitely mocked but that's the goal

[bitter turtle]

twink dark elf jesters

[late hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/wasted-gif-20266737

[midnight totem]

Some srs heresy going on in here

[somber axle]

Wanna watch me juggle?!

[hidden torrent]

Well I wouldn't

Never had reason to

[midnight totem]

Sure

[somber axle]

one day I'll make a Shredder Autopistol build and that will be the day

[hidden torrent]

I've always been the type that says do what's fun and get good at it 🙂

[midnight totem]

What's that clown girl's name again? I see her referenced everywhere

[somber axle]

Pomni! She's from the Digital Circus

[midnight totem]

Cool, ty

[hidden torrent]

Cat did you set a goal to try and get me to mock you

Lmao

[somber axle]

just wait til you see my Ogryn break dancing across a room into a gunner line

[hidden torrent]

That's not abnormal

[somber axle]

don't wait though because it will only happen if quickplay makes the stars align

[hidden torrent]

I only play NA east lmao

[somber axle]

it is for quickplay lately where a lot of the Ogryns I see are Gunluggers vacuuming ammo for the Lucky Bullet penance LMFAO

[hidden torrent]

Thank God I got that done Holy shit

[bitter turtle]

i had the decency to do it outside auric at least

[hidden torrent]

Fuck that

[bitter turtle]

:^)

[hidden torrent]

I did a chaotic evil playthrough

[bitter turtle]

i actually felt pretty bad even doing it in normal damnation lmao

(even if i still did most dmg)

but it was cringe

literally just holding m1 down and then picking up all the ammo

[hidden torrent]

Yeah it was fun and engaging gameplay

Now I just have the private game penances to do

Actually does anyone know if you can do Malleous Maelstrom on the boss buffed specials?

[bitter turtle]

you mean

the weakened monstros?

yes

[hidden torrent]

Weak bosses yes

[bitter turtle]

but uh

[hidden torrent]

Oh ezpz

[bitter turtle]

might be easier to just find a daemonhost

than wait fo rthe condition to show up

[zenith hinge]

how active would y'all say the competitive urge skill is?

[hidden torrent]

It's mid

[bitter turtle]

i dont like rng damage skills because you cant depend on them for breakpoints

its probably alright on an automatic though

but i dont really play automatic guns that often

[hidden torrent]

Rng really isn't something to bank on imo

Especially such a small chance

[bitter turtle]

its not

TOO unlikely

[hidden torrent]

The point would be used better somewhere else

[bitter turtle]

you can consier it will probably proc like 10-20 seconds into a horde

iirc

[midnight totem]

It sucks

[hidden torrent]

It's bad for how far in the tree it is

[bitter turtle]

but its just also competing against ogryn damage

which is one of\ the best nodes

i could see it in an iag build though, at least, ig

[hidden torrent]

Numbers cat also said it's bad and I trust him

[bitter turtle]

he's the one who defended it to me once

[hidden torrent]

I mean if there's a reason he'd know it

[bitter turtle]

when I was reviewing his guide in its original iteration

not saying its good anyway

i dont have it on any tree

[somber axle]

I guess if you've got the point to spare it could just be an occasional funny buff when using the Columnus Infantry Autogun or something

[bitter turtle]

its just not covering fire tier I guess

if you had a spare point

[somber axle]

but I wouldn't bank on it proccing for a breakpoint on other weapons

[bitter turtle]

ya

you could run it

and it might help sometimes

but on semi-autos i can just not imagine it being remotely decent

[hidden torrent]

Just want to let you know my cat drools on me when she's falling asleep

Because she is rn

[bitter turtle]

drool on your cat back

[hidden torrent]

She won't care

[bitter turtle]

i dont mean to get back at her

[somber axle]

My cat curls up in my lap while I play Darktide so I understand

[bitter turtle]

its a bonding exercise

[hidden torrent]

My cat drives me insane with sitting in my lap

My thighs are too big and she can't sit comfortably and just moves her foot from one leg to the other over and over

[tall marsh]

Just got out of auric. Thank you for the detailed response. Screencapped it for future reference 🫡

[somber axle]

Welcomes! 😄

[bitter turtle]

is there even a single thing worthwhile about the mk3 bayonet

like actually

any positive property over 1 and 2

no matter how niche

i have never felt one

dunno if there is like slightly higher cleave or something

[hidden torrent]

The breakpoint is that I like it and it's cool

[hearty panther]

it helps you appreciate the other helbores more

[hidden torrent]

I don't think they mean helbore

[bitter turtle]

i do

no other weapon has a bayonet 🤔

[hidden torrent]

Sile

Sike

Gotcha good

[analog mural]

The rippers have bayonets

[bitter turtle]

does this look like ogryn chat to you >:(

[analog mural]

Yes 'sah

[hidden torrent]

This is Vet-Chan after dark

[crisp orchid]

trying a whacky (bad) build that uses kraks, exe stance, and weapon specialist, one point spare. do i put it in 30% weak spot damage or 25% crit on dodge spamming

[hidden torrent]

Depends on weapons

[crisp orchid]

devil claw + shredder

[hidden torrent]

You rarely don't take 30% more weakspot damage

Just fyi

[crisp orchid]

i'll go with that then

[hidden torrent]

Love you

[crisp orchid]

thanks you too

[hidden torrent]

Someone's gonna say it back eventually

[muted knot]

Love you 🙂

[hidden torrent]

See some people need to hear that

[wanton dawn]

the crit on dodge spam is unreliable as heck

it is strong in theory but in practice uptime is terrible

[hollow ibex]

We talking about the blessing?

[tall torrent]

Reciprocity

[crisp orchid]

well, i wanted to be a snowflake but even i can't love the shredder. but then i do find it hard to use any rapid fire weapon that isn't my beloved agripinaa brauto

[hollow ibex]

Oh I don't think it's that bad

[hearty panther]

yeah idk i dont really have that much trouble

like i understand when the droughts occur and it's because im already winning the fight anyway (enemies are controlled/dying before they can even swing) so the desire for more crit there is an empty one

also dont get too sucked up into always wanting it to be full-stacked at 5

if it was just two stacks that'd be a +10% crit chance node, and i'd fukken click that any day

especially when they put desperado right below it

[hollow ibex]

Yeah it scales up fast anyway

[hearty panther]

man, veteran

what a silly class

[tall torrent]

For sure

[visual island]

Hiya fellow vets how's it going

[umbral garnet]

Finally got a good rashad axe so having fun with my officer build.

Sentry uniform and a commisar's cap. Hell yeah

[candid agate]

can we see the drip

[upper viper]

have they said anything about new weapon releases? I'd love a hotshot lasgun or volleygun

[hollow ibex]

nope

[sinful swallow]

Nothing besides the vague "they're planned"

[visual island]

Is there a new update coming soon? I'm kinda out of the loop

[upper viper]

ones just happened just fixes by the looks of things

[stuck gorge]

Warhammer as a whole is having some skulls event in which massive discounts on every game, and updates should be coming to each game

[umbral garnet]

Sure, at some point.

Side note, wow pubs are pissy.

I'm trying to level Zealot and I'm level 9 on heresy and people complain.

[upper viper]

honestly never had anyone complaining, had people leave as soon as they go down though

[umbral garnet]

A classic lmao

Most of those cases in my case have been zealots.

[trim steppe]

I leveled a second ogryn with random quickplays, I was in heresy and damnation as soon as my level allowed, no one ever said anything

[hardy ember]

I doubt we will see another update for this game soon maybe a trailer that’s it

[umbral garnet]

I've had 2 people now.

[trim steppe]

maybe you aren't carrying hard enough with your lvl9

[visual island]

Ah not very important update

[umbral garnet]

They complain in the start menu lmfao

[trim steppe]

I had a fresh 30 in my I-II auric maelstrom last night, he had a gun with 9% damage and a blue tac axe. We just carried his ass all the way to victory, no one said shit. It was one hell of a tense maelstrom tho lol

[tall torrent]

I had a lv15 in my damnation last night

I think it was a duo

Lv15 normally can’t access damnation

[trim steppe]

i thought you can do damnation at like lvl 11 or something

you cant do aurics til later

[tall torrent]

No it’s like 18? Smth

[visual island]

I'm lvl 30 and I struggle with damnation hearing yall at lvl 11 and doing it makes me feel disappointed in myself

[trim steppe]

We're both almost right, "Level requirement to access Damnation difficulty has been increased to 15 (from 12 previously)."

[trim steppe]

I didn't do damnation until I had been lvl 30 for like 50+ hours. By then you learn enough of the combat mechanics (dodge, block, target priorty, etc) that you can jump into damnation with a low lvl character in bad gear and still carry a newer crew

[visual island]

I don't know I feel like even with all the time I've spent on hersey I can't survive damnation and I can't figure put why I honestly feel like I've hit a wall

I've started watching some videos on vet things so I have a few to give a try

[tall torrent]

Did u learn to minimize dmg taken

[visual island]

Probly not if I'm being honest I Excell in making things dead fast but I also die fast

[tall torrent]

Well u gotta learn how to not take dmg

[terse idol]

Gotta learn your melee essentials

Your... CQC basics

https://tenor.com/view/mgs3-metal-gear-solid-cqc-fight-snake-eater-gif-15390013796642023331

[stray stream]

Is it « ok » to use a knife on a sniper vrak mk7 build ? Or should i stick with my powersword ?

[visual island]

I can try I dodge block as best as I can probly a skill issue

[agile forge]

How is your sound system?

Are you able to hear backstab sound cues etc

[visual island]

I typically use my headset so I can hear most sound cues

[iron marten]

I use a knife with my helbore. It’ll be fine!

Just need to build the right one

[agile forge]

Helbore has a knife built in already too lol

[last parcel]

double knife

https://tenor.com/view/cat-knife-gif-208826817266663394

[fluid solstice]

Yo anyone here completed the secret hard mode for the orthos offensive?

[somber axle]

Damnation and Aurics are just about dancing. Once you can confidently dance around an entire horde without taking damage (dodging, blocking, shoving, etc.) you know the dance. Doing this dance while disablers, elites and specials are around is what tests how good you are with it

Target priority, positioning and awareness help but tbh it mostly comes down to if you can dance

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout4-power-armor-walking-stuck-fallout-gif-18229224

[visual island]

Somewhat I'm wondering if my build may be causing issues as well

[tacit wren]

u just gotta dodge a lot

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-dancing-cats-cats-cat-aristocats-gif-16649697

Do the dodge dance

[tacit wren]

Are you using voice of command?

I'm guessing no

[visual island]

I am.

[tacit wren]

What is your melee weapon?

[somber axle]

Things like Confirmed Kill, Voice of Command, Iron Will, etc. all help you survive easier

[agile forge]

The good VoC?

So only the gold toughness modifier

Not the poopy res one

[visual island]

I had that on before I switched it for some reason for like one or two games.

[fluid solstice]

the res modifier is clutch tho😭

[agile forge]

Better to shout on a shorter CD

You wanna slam that button every time it refreshes in a fight

[visual island]

I've been using a mix of devil claw, one of the tactics axes, and a shovel

[tacit wren]

nah the res modifier makes you less likely to use VoC because of the cooldown and more likely to use it in dangerous situations

[fluid solstice]

I've saved games with that thing

[somber axle]

Rez VoC has helped for the odd time a team mate stays up on a ledge after the rest of the squad drops down and then they go down beyond the reach of anyone else

[tacit wren]

better to use it 2x as often to keep toughness up and hordes down

[somber axle]

Even then if they're beyond shout range they're still dead

[tacit wren]

and rez the old fashioned way

[wild vortex]

you're more likely to save games with the shorter CDR + TDR of the regular VOC tbh, I feel

[tacit wren]

if you need VoC To rez them like its on fire or something u just gonna get them wiped again

people don't expect a VoC rez anymore its uncommon

[tall torrent]

It’s horrible unfortunately

[wraith locust]

Yes

[visual island]

I'll have to switch that off then

[wraith locust]

It’s probably impossible to do with pugs now though

Idk if anyone is still doing it

[fluid solstice]

Again I strongly disagree but all the same

[tacit wren]

so what you want to do when engaging a horde is to use block and push and then dodge and then a lot of fast attacks and then dodge around the horde

if you use power sword use specials

[umbral garnet]

Nothing like being in a giant pit of fire you cannot possibly dodge out of and having the fire tick twice and kill you because someone ressed.

(I have 2 wounds)

[fluid solstice]

I know thats why I ask. I'm trying to squad up with someone who knows how

[tall torrent]

If it didn’t have 2 big penalties associated it would be better

[visual island]

I have a good powersword but I don't really like using it

[tacit wren]

if you are using devil claw then practice the counter , it does a lot of damage

and get more stamina

but mostly stay out of the hordes because unless you are a zealot your gonna go down really fast being in the middle of a huge fight

[tall torrent]

VoC spam for gold toughness is just better than the odd revive you get

[visual island]

That could be an issue I've been fighting the hordes head on

[umbral garnet]

VoC powersword

[tall torrent]

This isn’t really necessary

[tacit wren]

also - big one - USE GRENADES

there is a reason we have so many and regen them

if you are alone and a horde is coming at you and about to overtake you, drop a grenade and side dodge

[visual island]

I've been using krak grenades

[tall torrent]

You can kill horde even with very single target focused melee weapons

[umbral garnet]

Vet isn't made for horde clear, but a vet could easily stand their own in a mixed horde with the right weapon.

[wild vortex]

afaik Frags are better

bigger aoe, insane stagger, the bleed helps out other teammates who also use bleed

[tall torrent]

It’s not necessarily for these

[tacit wren]

having a krak wipe out a crusher is nice, but the AOE and bleed on the others is nice

[tall torrent]

It’s more the fact that frags wipe everything

[tacit wren]

you have to be very precise with a krak

[umbral garnet]

Two frags is the "Fuck everything in this general area" button.

[wild vortex]

oh, I see. I thought in terms of direct damage Krak were better

[visual island]

I used to focus on being the heavy hitter killer in a team I played alot I guess I should steer away from that

[tacit wren]

i've had it wipe out 3 crushers at once

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1239993442298237029/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.05.14_-_13.30.31.01.mp4?ex=664642e2&is=6644f162&hm=ccfba826306fcaa3aaf09f243e38c8535087da2237c73db3d87c9011b3171432&

[tacit wren]

Krak is good if you are running a light build with a knife or something and need a way to kill a huge group of carapace enemies

but even then bleed is good

[tall torrent]

Knife is one of the best anti-carapace weapons in the game

[umbral garnet]

HEAVY, SPECIAL, HEAVY, SPECIAL, HEAVY, SPECIAL

[tall torrent]

Plus knife gets uncanny strike

[last parcel]

well with a knife, you'd still just throw frags then stab everyone

[tall torrent]

No

[visual island]

I had a fun recon las build I was running for awhile

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1238224374675537930/1238238446016008272/Crusher_3.2k_dps.mp4?ex=6645cf2a&is=66447daa&hm=d99a8d508ff93fabdf8afbfa93e4fda59a495af5b351fc9519ad9ab550b640b0&

[wild vortex]

I honestly don't feel like switching out of the Laspistol

damn good gun

[wild vortex]

[tall torrent]

U don’t have to run mercy killer for this

Executor also works

[umbral garnet]

YOU CANNOT STOP ME

[umbral garnet]

The new knife?

[tall torrent]

Mk6 is straight up better than mk3 at least for veteran

[umbral garnet]

I see, never tried it.

[tall torrent]

Other 2 classes maybe mk3 hits a breakpoint that mk6 can’t

[umbral garnet]

I'll look into it.

[wild vortex]

how do you deal with hordes with a knife

[iron marten]

I'm probably way too aggressive with it, but I run both stamina regen nodes with the mk6

[tall torrent]

But for veteran, mk6 is just better because it has the same breakpoints

[umbral garnet]

Just swing.

Ez

[tall torrent]

On mk3? Light spam & PA

On mk6 you have more options

[umbral garnet]

[tall torrent]

Mk6 PA spam is around 5% (?) faster atk speed than Mk3 PA spam

And they have the same dmg

Mk6 H2 > PA > PA combo I get 2900~3200 dps depending on how well I time the animations

Mk3 H2 > PA > PA is a bit slower

Not by that much but it is slower

[visual island]

I want to get better so ima try some of the tings yall have said

[tall torrent]

Focus on minimizing the dmg u take first

Try to do that better with every mission u play

[visual island]

I was doing pretty good with it on hersey then they adjusted the amount of enemies in damnation and I just get overwhelmed

[tall torrent]

It’s entirely possible to go entire missions only taking like 50 or so dmg, and even less

In auric HiSTG damnation

[tall torrent]

What weapons are u using

[visual island]

Currently I think the devil claw and an auto gun I think I was using Columbus last match I play like 3 days ago XD

[tall torrent]

I’d highly suggest using melee weapons that kill carapace well on veteran

[visual island]

Mark IV devil claw

Sorry was googling what weapon I was using

[tame lodge]

VId recon is the one with soft cleave, right?

[last parcel]

VIIa

[tame lodge]

Aight, thx

[oblique totem]

Question: is the regular sword best at doing anything?

[iron marten]

nah, psword is, for vet

it can deal with hordes, do stupid single target damage, and has stagger on ragers with each powered swing

the only downside is that you need to power it up everytime

[tame lodge]

Regular sword? Like the Catachans?

Or like unpowered sword?

[tall torrent]

What’s “regular sword”

[oblique totem]

The Catachan claw

[tall torrent]

It’s very good at defense

[oblique totem]

I've tried to use the psword but for some reason it always feels underwhelming.

[oblique totem]

With the special? Parry, I think it is?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[sinful swallow]

You can parry a dhost to death solo if you're insane

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-well-fine-ok-whoops-oops-gif-20212592

[tame lodge]

It's hilarious, just tap special to skip the attack animation after every special

[sinful swallow]

You just have to learn how to read the swipe patterns, near impossible real game but the idea of tanking it on not shield ogryn js there

Chaos spawn and plague ogryn are even more of a joke if you learn to parry them, slugma balls still just eats you though parry doesn't do anything new for it

[oblique totem]

Still tho. Always wanted to solo a Daemon host

[weak ermine]

When we gotta get sniper? XD

[sinful swallow]

Zealot thunder hammer still 2 taps if you're brave enough to try that out

[oblique totem]

NO. Vet only.

[sinful swallow]

You can also use VoC and just push it off an edge

[oblique totem]

Weak

[last parcel]

slugma balls

adding that to my dictionary

[oblique totem]

Oh great, its learning.

[somber axle]

Catachan parry instakills Ragers by just aiming at their heads and is a very strong defensive tool against monstrosities too

[tall torrent]

They’ve nerfed the thunder hammers for that

[wanton dawn]

"Parry this you filthy casual ! *chomp*"

[tall torrent]

Martyrdom stealth bonk

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/matthew-mcconaughey-smoking-matthew-mcconaughey-intense-intense-stare-smoking-gif-2659849828106643276

[sinful swallow]

The parry will also save you from a crusher

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/block-parry-dodge-block-deepwoken-roblox-parry-gif-25366550

[midnight totem]

The devil's claw is a horde clear and defensive weapon. We'll timed parries can defend against almost anything

[somber axle]

Dclaw is a personal fav but it isn't a good Crusher kill weapon so either pair it with Kraks or have a strong ranged option for deleting Crushers

Any Helbore, Plasma, Revolver, Boltgun, Agripina Shotgun, Columnus Infantry Autogun, etc.

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/shoota-boy-warhammer40k-kill-team-ork-wh40k-gif-26410400

Main gun:

[somber axle]

I've decided

Going to make a goofy clown Shredder Autopistol build and set up the Shredder for Crusher killing

Then use the Dclaw

And use Catachan cosmetics

Just because anyone seeing me kill a Crusher using a Shredder Autopistol will wonder what's wrong with me

[midnight totem]

Nah

[oblique totem]

Do it coward

[midnight totem]

We already know what's wrong with you

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-what-are-you-waiting-for-determined-angry-gif-5247874

[somber axle]

How do you know about me dropping myself on my head as a child??

[last parcel]

tjere were signs

[oblique totem]

Signs I can't read.

[midnight totem]

You told us

[oblique totem]

No this is a different kind of illiteracy.

[tame lodge]

Oh that's just self torture, I think we should try to convince you to stop

Good luck have fun

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/pomni-losing-my-mind-losing-my-marbles-smg4-glitch-productions-gif-7170847602410935396

[hidden torrent]

Powersword no longer best friends, new best friend: Rashad

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[midnight totem]

1. You like axes

2. It's more mobile

Combat axe is actually pretty strong

I just prefer swords

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hidden torrent]

Rashad is better in almost everywhere imo

[iron marten]

for ragers, you do the push attack to stagger them

[hidden torrent]

The fact I don't need to waste time activating it makes me take less damage

Ragers get flinched by push attack

[iron marten]

or the special if you want to save stamina

[hidden torrent]

Use revolver and just 1 shot them ezpz

[midnight totem]

If it was shaped like a sword

I'd use it more

[white minnow]

pswords just output absurd generalist damage

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hidden torrent]

So does Rashad, even better imo

[white minnow]

rashad PA can indeed stagger ragers but that's still less damage than psword special spam into ragers

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hidden torrent]

The fact there isn't an activation sells it more

[midnight totem]

The real solution we need is krak lances

Pls fatshark

[white minnow]

sure if you don't like the activation, then the rashad is there for you

[hidden torrent]

Plus the Rashad boss damage on head hit is pretty crazy

[wanton dawn]

Dunno about bm ps but no way rashad can do better than ps sunder on its niche

[tall torrent]

What is going on with the server today

[hidden torrent]

What makes the PS a lot better is that it does fine without needing a special build

You can have a bad build and do great with PS

[tall torrent]

Rashad takes way more investment

[white minnow]

should also factor in the fact that PS is still doing horde damage regardless of BM

[wanton dawn]

Rashad is a pain in the arse to build

[hidden torrent]

I agree

[midnight totem]

Power sword needs power cycler 4

[hidden torrent]

But I think it's better even with an investment, lack of activation to have good horde clear

[tall torrent]

Power sword doesn’t need melee dmg talent investment

[white minnow]

activation's not really a big deal

[midnight totem]

Rashad needs bm and unarmored and high first target and damage, and finesse, and penetration

[white minnow]

i should do a simple benchmark

[wanton dawn]

Rashad need 80 80 79, bm4, unarmored3+

[hidden torrent]

After spamming activation and only heavy attacks for 300 hours it gets tiring

Does it have any impact? No

[radiant chasm]

idk why yall don't use chsword more

[hidden torrent]

But playstyles are important to take into consideration

[radiant chasm]

it's really strong statwise

[tall torrent]

It’s not nearly as good on vet as on zealot

[radiant chasm]

i c

[white minnow]

psword gonna beat it out in sheer playstyles out of the fact that you can just run them on more builds optimally

[tall torrent]

Remember the bloodletter discourse

Yea

Zealot doesn’t need bloodletter on chainsword

Veteran kind of wants it

[radiant chasm]

i'm saying as a horde clear weapon, yee as your anti armor/anti big tool i see that it would fall behind on vet

[wild vortex]

I made a semi decent Rashad today

[wanton dawn]

Ps can be put on all vet build and do fine

[wild vortex]

72/70/80 on damage/pen/first target with tier 3 headtaker and tier 2 bromentum

[midnight totem]

Semi decent? It's brick'd

[white minnow]

and just eyeballing it, rashad seems to have a mildly slower attack speed that should be factored in

[wild vortex]

it's a nice weapon even with those stats

[tall torrent]

Yea it wants trench fighter

[wild vortex]

yeah I mean it's the only functional one I've managed to make so far

and I wanted to make one

[tall torrent]

Pretty high spec into right side

[white minnow]

psword is uncontested in generalist damage output for me and i would run that shit on zealot if it were available to them

[tall torrent]

Power sword is just no investment

[white minnow]

the amount of degenerancy i could reach with psword zealot

[wanton dawn]

Ogryn psword

[tall torrent]

There’s a 3rd power sword variant in the files

And a really awkwardly large power sword skin

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/legendary-tales-legendary-tales-fantasy-parry-gif-23186991

[midnight totem]

I kinda wanna steal Rinda's power sword

[hidden torrent]

Power greatsword

/power claymore

[white minnow]

gib me

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/heman-masters-of-the-universe-dolph-lundgren-i-have-the-power-sword-gif-18323495

[hidden torrent]

Imo prob a Zealot weapon

[tall torrent]

It’s equippable on veteran’s current power sword

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/claymore-one-person-audience-cheering-gif-4647347322021924358

[radiant chasm]

i'd die if psword was on zealot that shit would be such a boring meta

[hidden torrent]

Doesn't mean it's finished though, it's just chilling in the files rn, might change as it/if comes out

[tall torrent]

No the model is basically finished

[hidden torrent]

By finished i mean implemented

Should've use more precise language

[midnight totem]

Zealots are not smart enough to care for power swords

[hidden torrent]

Sisters of battle use em all the time

You don't really hear of guardsman using power claymore, likely because they're so rare

[midnight totem]

Yes but they're not sisters

[hidden torrent]

Doesn't really matter game wise tbh

It just fits a Zealot archetype better considering they already have 2h weapons

[wanton dawn]

You dont hear of reject dispatching half the daemon roster either

[hidden torrent]

Sure I do, seems like we all do it

[tall torrent]

Because Atoma prime is apparently cut off by warp shadow or smth

[hidden torrent]

Warp storms

[tall torrent]

Mb

Warp storm

Yea

[radiant chasm]

yea i don't see vet using a 2hander

[tall torrent]

I don’t think they even know what year they’re in lol

It’s supposedly 42nd millenium before plague wars

[wanton dawn]

Lets ask morrow

[tall torrent]

But Brahms says in the game intro that it’s the 41st millenium

[hidden torrent]

Due to how time and the warp works technically our characters could also be from the future

So I mean

[wanton dawn]

"SAAAARRRGEEE!!! WHAT YEAR IS IT ?"

Aint good talkin' bout dat

[hidden torrent]

Morrow is my favorite character tbh

Plus he's giga-chad lore wise

[midnight totem]

Cavalry Sabre - Favoured by many Rough Rider Imperial Guard sergeants and officers, the cavalry sabre is heavier than most Departmento Munitorum issue power swords, with a broad blade and, consequently, a somewhat larger power field. Though less nimble than its counterparts, the heavy blade is perfectly suited for cutting down enemies while charging by on a swift mount. Those rough riders who are able to acquire a cavalry sabre often carry it as a secondary weapon, switching from their hunting lance if any enemies are left standing after the initial charge.

[hidden torrent]

Ok

[wanton dawn]

Lance ?!

I want a lance !

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/cycle-tour-de-france-gif-5696700

[wanton dawn]

I want a lance with bm

[hidden torrent]

Me when I take steroids and ride bikes

[midnight totem]

We white scar marines now

[hidden torrent]

I ate taco bell before leg day

Pray to the emperor for me

Backblast area clear

[midnight totem]

Make sure you got some homies with you. For the coherence buffs

[hidden torrent]

I just listen to things

[tall torrent]

they haven't mentioned the plague wars yet tho

so they only know abt indomitus crusade

[real osprey]

hello Varlets
would you say Stealth Veteran is good? I have tried it but can't quite find what makes it useful just yet

[tall torrent]

stealth for veteran is more utility/reposition

think of it as playing dishonored at high chaos

be aggressive, dive backline, plan ur moves

[real osprey]

I see
I suppose that it can be quite effective at gaining favorable positions behind priority enemy specialists

thank you for the advice

[brittle apex]

i play stealth vet to basically res since resetting the cd is inconsistent

u can use it as a ghetto voc with the share toughness gained talent too

[tall torrent]

Stealth defensively is not as good as VoC

[midnight totem]

Stealth vet is my bread and butter

[brittle apex]

absolutely not

[tall torrent]

It’s more of an opportunity opener

[brittle apex]

i only play weapon specialist vet anyway, don't ev en talent the stealth

[tall torrent]

new personal best on cusher dps with knife

[somber axle]

It's good for threat reset too on top of what numbers cat said! You can use it to safely disengage from a fight to line up a shot on a high priority target that might be trickier to shoot with a horde, specials and/or melee elites in your face. You can also underhand lob shredder frag grenades without breaking stealth. Very good for clearing a room and safely getting off the grenades. There's also using infiltrate to rez a downed team mate. If you underhand nades on approach to a downed squad member it can kill poxwalkers, push melee elites and buy them breathing room so they can safely return to the fight when you rez them. Don't rez someone into a Mauler overhead or a Crusher overhead while stealthed LMFAO

[brittle apex]

vet stealth res with no one left behind is only comparable to ogryn with res curios

[midnight totem]

Stealth can be used offensively or defensively, to get yourself out of a bad spot, lure away enemies then drop aggro, get ten seconds of free actions with lower aggro, suppress enemy shooters, take out priority targets, or do objectives

[brittle apex]

don't sleep on the duration either, 8 seconds is a really long time

[somber axle]

I personally love Low Profile for the -90% threat for 10 sec on stealth break. I play around my team a lot so when I run an Infiltrate build it lets me more freely pick off threats around them. Easier to deal with approaching Trappers/Hounds/Muties or snipe Gunners/Reapers/Snipers if you don't have to care about Poxwalkers in your back or face

[tall torrent]

Low profile is pretty good

[brittle apex]

it's probably the only one worth taking of the 4

[tall torrent]

Hunter’s resolve is also very good

[balmy flume]

I see file verification is taking forever…again, lol

[brittle apex]

since i only run weapon specialist i tend to always have near max toughness anyway, and the benefit of that talent would be overshadowed by iron will

[candid agate]

low profile is good until you get the psyker killed because of it

[tall torrent]

It stacks with iron will and gives u a couple defense breakpoints that normally aren’t available

[midnight totem]

Sounds like a skill issue for the psyker

[brittle apex]

of course it stacks, but it's likely multiplicative

[somber axle]

If the Psyker gets killed by poxwalkers then they were probably a Smiteker and deserved it tbh

[brittle apex]

a 10% small node is probably gonna reduce dmg more

[tall torrent]

It is, but it still grants some really cool defense breakpoints

[candid agate]

what is a smiteker, i see it thrown around a lot but dont know what it means

[tall torrent]

For example

U can take a Poxburster to the face and not take any health dmg

[midnight totem]

A smiteker is a psyker who only uses smite

[tall torrent]

U can take a crusher overhead and only take the minimum melee spillover of 25% health

[midnight totem]

And relies on teammates for dps

[stuck gorge]

not to mention they only hold down the smite instead of bursting it to knockdown stuff

[candid agate]

just use EP and delete hordes with the 3 stacks and extra damage

[midnight totem]

That's not a smiteker then

[somber axle]

There's a channeled ability called Smite for Psykers that stuns a room with a chain lightning effect. Psykers who use Smite and Smitekers are two different creatures. One actually uses their staff/gun/melee in a fight and treats Smite as a support tool. A Smiteker uses Smite like their primary weapon and will not use anything else, often to their own detriment like when a Scab Bruiser sneaks up behind them and downs them LOL

[brittle apex]

i suppose, i just don't see myself getting hit by either of those things using stealth

[candid agate]

oh so im not a smiteker, good

[candid agate]

thank you

[midnight totem]

Smitkers are like

That one time I queued into an auric maelstrom, melee only scab only

[somber axle]

You'll know a Smiteker when you see one because they'll never stop using Smite until they die

[midnight totem]

And my three psykers only used smite

[brittle apex]

if the smite doesn't kill shit they're a wc smiter and just wasting everyones time

[candid agate]

i assume you had to kill everything?

[midnight totem]

While I was sole dps against crushers

[brittle apex]

if they are ep smite they are probably top damaging the lobby because it's so broken

[hidden torrent]

Commitment to the cause

[stuck gorge]

you know they die when your screen is no longer obnoxiously electric

[candid agate]

i love EP smite+12.5 chance, literally electric chairing pox walkers and anything below crushers

[midnight totem]

Crushers literally spawned faster then I could kill them because they did no damage

[brittle apex]

ep smite will also eventually kill crushers too, it's probably the most broken build in the game rn

[candid agate]

might be a little bit of an issue with the spawn rate being unbalanced+useless psykers

[stuck gorge]

whats EP again, i forget psykers keystones

[midnight totem]

Empowered psionics

[brittle apex]

center keystone on psyker, increases smite dmg by 200%

[candid agate]

im so glad i found that build myself instead of using a guide

[stuck gorge]

alright ty

[hidden torrent]

Old empowered smite that never ended was wild

[brittle apex]

with shriek it's the most braindead easy to play build in the game that deals with everything except bosses

[somber axle]

Smitekers are like Taugryn in that they have given up on trying to learn melee combat and are trying to play a gimmick hoping to be carried. But at least Smitekers are mostly just a detriment to themselves. Taugryn are a menace to teams that need ammo

[stuck gorge]

100% peril reduction smite is silly

[wild vortex]

Taugryn?

[tall torrent]

Term I invented

[stuck gorge]

i assume spamming the taunts stagger to avoid any kind of dodging

[tall torrent]

T’au in 40k is a faction with very strong ranged combat but very bad at melee

[wild vortex]

Ohhh you mean gluggers

[hidden torrent]

Awful at melee, over powered ranged, literally

[tall torrent]

T’augryn is an ogryn who forgot how to melee and only knows to hold m1 with his gun

[candid agate]

gunluggers are great if they can melee

[brittle apex]

i'm trying to replicate the scenario you mentioned in the meatgrinder, just have iron will and the stealth tdr but still hitting bleedthrough

[stuck gorge]

"hey wheres all the ammo boxes at"

[dreamy spade]

idk whether to swap maniac for unyielding or deathsplitter with fire frenzy

[tall torrent]

Crusher overhead always has melee bleed through unless u have gold toughness

[wild vortex]

I mean even on pure right side glugger you can't escape melee

[brittle apex]

nah with bombers

crusher haven't tried yet

[candid agate]

i just wish executioner stance was a good on ogryn as it is veteran

[tall torrent]

How much toughness do u have

[brittle apex]

191

[wild vortex]

If you're shooting into poxwalker hordes as glugger then you're stupid

[tall torrent]

You need close order drill max stacks

[candid agate]

seeing the walkers blow up because of the bullets is too fun to resist

[stuck gorge]

basically every ogryn melee already is great at horde clear

[brittle apex]

that's so specific ok

[candid agate]

but i understand

[tall torrent]

Yea it’s a very specific breakpoint

[brittle apex]

i don't see myself actually hitting that bp virtually ever in this game