veteran-class

[dawn garnet]

i noticed

like i only managed to get to max 3 stacks

but when it works it works

[indigo lily]

Hello, what's the best build for veteran plasma gun please ?

[bitter turtle]

Which keystone

Focus target or weapon specialist

Both are good for plasma

[midnight totem]

Any build for plasma works

[viscid sparrow]

maybe those people just like having MOAR DOTS!!

[bitter turtle]

It's funny

I'll give them that

But it felt like

"WHy kill something instantly when I can just wait for them to slowly bleed and burn out?!?!?!"

[viscid sparrow]

btw, I just rolled this kant shotty, and idk what to swap...

[bitter turtle]

Lol

[indigo lily]

This is a great build for plasma gun ? https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/veteran-squad-leader

[viscid sparrow]

more boss dps, I guess?

[bitter turtle]

Reload to maniac

Personally I like scattershot but deathspitter is good too

So take your pick and roll the other to no respite

No respite is the best blessing on kant so

[tall torrent]

Deathspitter doesn’t stack from DOT kills

[bitter turtle]

Oh nvm fuck that then

[viscid sparrow]

I mean, I do have all tier 3 blessings (or at least most of them iirc), so swapping one blessing out won't be all that big of a loss

[bitter turtle]

Wtf is that a bug

[tall torrent]

Fire frenzy doesn’t either

[bitter turtle]

I only use scattershot kant so I assumed

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrate-gif-22469816

[viscid sparrow]

ahhh ok, problem: I have run out of plasteel while upgrading this one kant

[oblique totem]

Well, there's your problem

[tall torrent]

Lemme send the blessing list

It’s all been checked

[oblique totem]

Pain

[tall torrent]

Melee weapon blessings

Ranged weapon blessings

It’s in alphabetical order

[oblique totem]

The blessed tables

[tall torrent]

Actually, correction: uncanny strike is “per melee weakspot hit”

[wanton dawn]

Some flex on the build

The rest of the tree is pretty "core"

[bitter turtle]

i think you can drop 8 stack focus target unless you need that 4.5% dmg for a bp

[ebon umbra]

this blessing guide has been very helpful ty

[wanton dawn]

It also work as 12% potential , stam regen and thoughness regen

[oblique totem]

Rampage seems to be one of the best choices

[tiny summit]

Twinned blast. Twinned blast. Twinned blast

[wanton dawn]

It is hard to beat on point availability

[oblique totem]

That the two grenades upgrade?

[bitter turtle]

i dont think you can really think of it like that outside of maybe the first elite in an engagement

[tiny summit]

Tinkerer. Tinkerer. Tinkerer

[bitter turtle]

you are spammin 2 stacks either way on successive elites

[tiny summit]

Yea 20% chance for double nades

[bitter turtle]

and dropping some pts to grab melee talents sounds like a worthwhile thing

for plasma

[oblique totem]

Twinned blast. Tinkerer. Stockpile. Extra grenade. Shredder grenades.

[wanton dawn]

Not really because you are losing at least 2 points to get 10%

And the 5% is not worth over 4.5% teamwide and not melee cobstrained

[tiny summit]

Going for agile engagement is good too. Schwing through a horde. Swap to plasma

[oblique totem]

You could also go for krak grenades but I find shredder grenades get more utility

[bitter turtle]

if you drop the other talents you circled you can go to agile or 5%+recip+desperado

which opens up options to use something like knife

[wanton dawn]

It is good but it is another build

Lemme show my version, 2s

[oblique totem]

I forget what agile engagement does

[bitter turtle]

25% damage on your other weapon after a kill

[oblique totem]

Oh. Yeah definitely

I'm swapping weapons like a madman anyway this just helps

[tall torrent]

Wait till the full release I’ve got more surprises

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/ecb17a49c9b01260b130264be4ca803c.png

like doing this opens up the possibility of using knife

[last parcel]

STICKY SURPRISE

[bitter turtle]

i think losing recip/desperado for knife is p bad

or any finesse heavy melee

[wanton dawn]

This one is for speed aura. I have a version for each aura and may adjust grenade too

[oblique totem]

Gross.

[wanton dawn]

Also, i play it with ps so no armor pen

[oblique totem]

Thank you, kind sir

[bitter turtle]

i just think there's always something better to take than 8 stack

its basically a conditional inferior fire team

cause you are never holding and waiting until you actually stack up to 8

[wanton dawn]

Well, it is the best boost for this version on raw damage for point availability

Simplest to keep up too

[oblique totem]

Do they stack with each other?

[bitter turtle]

yes

but just remember your team doesn't really care or think about your damage buffs

outside of monstrosities

[wanton dawn]

Other option may compete on utility, not on dmg

[bitter turtle]

nobody builds around a breakpoint that only works if you brought fire team and are in ocherency

[oblique totem]

Fair

[tall torrent]

Like a fully remade & interactable (with hyperlinks) talent tree

[wanton dawn]

You are thinking at it the wrong way though

[oblique totem]

https://tenor.com/view/the-fountain-hugh-jackman-brightlight-enlightenment-gif-5011749

[wanton dawn]

This build stacks a lot of unreliable dmg boost

But if you have enough you get your bp on average

Crit, blaze, mark...

[indigo lily]

Could someone please send me a great veteran psword/plasma build please ?

[bitter turtle]

i asked you what keystone you want

lol

you can take one of the ones posted above anyway

[wanton dawn]

"Not really". That combo has low core requirement

[indigo lily]

me ?

[wanton dawn]

Aka everything works

[bitter turtle]

yes

[indigo lily]

Sorry

[bitter turtle]

what bp are you missing that you need 4.5 on though

i can hit bp on everything without it at least

[wanton dawn]

I have 2 "core" plasma/ps build, a ranged and hybrid one. Without counting blitz/aura variant

[bitter turtle]

and anything i cant is far enough away that 4.5 doesnt help

[wanton dawn]

What bp are you gaining with 5% more melee dmg over 4.5% though ?

[bitter turtle]

if you do that path

its not for the 5% melee as much as desperado and recip for something like knife

or rashad

can go 10% melee

to help on bp

[wanton dawn]

And it is another build altogether, already said it

[bitter turtle]

tbf

he never said psword in the beginning lol

plus

you dont know if he can hit bp without desperado

maybe his psword is shit

lol

either way

my point wasnt that you must change those nodes

but i would consider 8 stack to be another flex node

its really low value

[wanton dawn]

Imo there is only 1 flex point on this build

Because i think 5% nade regen on elite is core

[bitter turtle]

ye i can agree with that

bu ti just dont understand why 10% rending is there too lol

[wanton dawn]

Well, understandable for chaxe ig

[bitter turtle]

idk with the tree i posted i hit:

1shot dreg rager, 1shot flamers, 1 shot gunners, 3shot crusher, 3 shot mauler, most of them dont even need focus

what does 4.5% damage or 10% rending actually do

if its psword i cant imagine you need them either

or if you do you might as well get a more significant dmg boost for melee

[wanton dawn]

Even with that in mind, you are arguing that 10% melee dmg on you would bring more "utility" because at core this is a ranged plasma

[bitter turtle]

i think its important to consider that a plasma build should be meleeing quite a lot though

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, but again, that 4.5% is team wide

And apply to ALL dmg source

Also dont require the 5% health node

[wraith flare]

why would u ever go the right side at the beginning, a major waste of points

[tall torrent]

Our for blood is really strong now

[bitter turtle]

because ofb is based

and 5% movespeed > 5% health

[midnight totem]

^

[bitter turtle]

or +1 stam

[midnight totem]

SPEED

[bitter turtle]

if its doing nothing for the plasma its just a conditional 4.5% melee buff tho

[tall torrent]

+1 stam is kinda better for knife than +move speed in my experience

[bitter turtle]

which is pretty bad

[wanton dawn]

Wat ?

[tall torrent]

It’s 1 extra push atk u can do

[bitter turtle]

ye but OFB>confirmed kill in that case

[bitter turtle]

ive been asking

what does the 4.5% actually do for the plasma

does it hit a bp im not aware of

if it doesn't, then its just a conditional 4.5% buff for your melee

[tall torrent]

I also still consider confirmed kill better than O4B for knife simply because knife doesn’t have nearly as good horde clear

[bitter turtle]

assuming that even does something

[tall torrent]

I think O4B is better for stuff like power sword & Rashad

[wanton dawn]

I have never talked about bp myself besides pointing stacking unreliable source of dmg to hit unreliable bp

[bitter turtle]

what unreliable bps tho

all my bps are really reliable

the only one i even have to tag to hit is the dreg gunner

[wanton dawn]

Crit, blaze, mark stacks, teammate dmg

[bitter turtle]

and only at close range

like what enemy

[wanton dawn]

Ranged distance

[bitter turtle]

even at close range most of my bps still work fine

[wanton dawn]

Headshot

[bitter turtle]

and tagging would fix that

[wanton dawn]

One shot reaper, 2 shot mauler conga...

[bitter turtle]

not headshotting most enemies is not going to be fixed by 4.5% tho

idk i just want a concrete example of something

is what i was asking about

[wanton dawn]

Wont get it from me

[tall torrent]

Plasma 2 shot mauler is mostly crit related

[bitter turtle]

mauler is pretty solidly in 3 shot territory if you dont crit

small amounts of dmg wont change that

[stable socket]

if you have like 8 stacks of redirect fire, 4 stacks of focus target, blaze away and land a headshot chained into a bodyshot i think you can 2 shot without crit

but there's a lot that has to align

[bitter turtle]

well

at that point its easier to crit i think

lol

[stable socket]

yeah probably

[wanton dawn]

At the end of the day i wont be dragged on a bp discussion cuz it was never my argument to begin with

Plus, i only play it on no ammo maelstrom so i only care about dps here

[bitter turtle]

it didn't work 😔

just tried it lol

[stable socket]

RIP

[bitter turtle]

prob needs a couple more stack sof focus

6 worked

this is at close range tho

4 might work if longshot

[stable socket]

probably, yeah

also sometimes if i take like 0.5s too long to aim when the mauler falls down, blaze away doesn't apply to the second shot and i miss the bp - it's very finicky! with any external damage boost it'll be more reliable tho

[red helm]

Real talk can we all appreciate how amazing the Veteran (Voice C) Voice of command lines are.

[stable socket]

another reason why blaze away is good - when spamming into maulers, the latter shots have a good chance of 2 shotting maulers

[ebon umbra]

try full auto mod and shot cancel with a weapon swap or right click shot cancel as needed?

[oblique totem]

Click on heads.
That's about as complex as I want my strategy to be.

[bitter turtle]

also i probably would consider that more valuable if i wasnt running invigorated

but i get what you mean tho

i will say

i do notice the difference when i take off 5% speed

maybe

idk

maybe im just fooling myself

[wanton dawn]

Well, same energy as 4.5% dmg

[bitter turtle]

well

its a pain in the ass to measure movespeed

would have to record both and line them up and see

[wanton dawn]

5% alone is prob not enough to get meaningful value measure

[bitter turtle]

at the very least

i know im not wasting the sprint efficiency

since i cant help myself sprinting fucking everywhere

esp on knife and laspis

[idle swallow]

not having stamina to push bursters, this post was brought to you by deadshot gang

[bitter turtle]

this is why invigorated

its exactly enough for 2 push attack stoo

for the h1 -> PA -> PA crusher kill combo

[wanton dawn]

Btw, the plasma/ps with surv. Grenade is flex

I recommend with sunder for max cleave shenanigan

[ebon umbra]

kraks vs bulwark shields? last i remember it was lack luster

[bitter turtle]

huh?

it always went around the shields

in fact

that's one of its main niche

[analog mural]

Kraks will always kill bulwarks from what I've seen

[ebon umbra]

i havent used them since a few weeks after they came out

skill issue

[wanton dawn]

I take krak on it cuz i need kill. I prefer smoke for this build

[bitter turtle]

unfortunately

iirc

krak dont kill bulwark after the buff to bulwark

unless you take tinker?

so ironically it got worse since release if anything

[ebon umbra]

[wanton dawn]

Kraks is mostly good against bon.

[ebon umbra]

i want the krak penance and im also getting a little annoyed with crusher bulwark combos killing my volley fire

so two birds one dead vet i guess

[last parcel]

you only need 20%, so fire team + superiority complex or just ogryn damage work too

[bitter turtle]

o that's good

i guess the only problem is

if you go fire team

[hollow warren]

too bad this baby is on my zealot...

[bitter turtle]

you end up taking tinker because the other choice is even worse anyway

[last parcel]

yeah

[oblique totem]

Rip illusion of choice

[midnight totem]

Ib4 brick

[wanton dawn]

I dont take tinkerer if i go smoke/fire team

Which is rare tbf

But i do have that in my build list

[last parcel]

[bitter turtle]

i dont think i go smoke->fire on any build

but are tinkered smokes not worth?

havent played with them to really get a feel if the duration is just excessive

lol

[wanton dawn]

Not for a melee centric playstyle imo

You use smoke to move

[bitter turtle]

if only covering fire worked on yourself

you're just covering

yourself

[wanton dawn]

Plus i dont like camping anyway

Ppl getting overwhelmed because they put themselves in a crap spot without retreat point and getting zoned by bomber

Smoke doesnt really help against bomber

In practice

[last parcel]

you gotta smoke the molly so we can take banana control

[wanton dawn]

...Almost tested my cs reference memory

[tall torrent]

Yea that’s understandable

[midnight totem]

Flashbang grenade blitz next

Except it worked on allies too

[last parcel]

still waiting for the ogryn ability to throw your psyker when they’re overloaded

[sick patio]

damn missing 1%

[last parcel]

literally unusable

[bitter turtle]

sell it and start over

rip

[tall torrent]

braced autogun meta

[regal smelt]

Any grenade talents are there so you can spam as many smokes on top of each other and take everyone's frames away

Best games I had were doing the smoke grenade penance with all the nade talents and throwing as many as possible in 1 place

[sick patio]

we have ventilation purge at home

[regal smelt]

It's so much worse. You go down 39 fps just by looking at the cloud

[tiny summit]

Become the vent purge. Bring the vape nation build to the vent purge

[sick patio]

smokes actually kinda go hard

puts flamers in donking range

[tiny summit]

I think it's good. It's more pathing that's the issue. Tinkerer feels like such a troll placement

[bitter turtle]

in context i was asking craime who says he goes covering fire on smoke->fire team pathing

[regal smelt]

If you don't care about survivalist and you already need more points lower in the tree

[bitter turtle]

which is a pathing i never do

so i was asking

since the only reason i can think of to do that pathing is if you need 5% more dmg for bp

otherwise agile engagement > anything on the fire team line, and 5% crit usually is better than 5% hp

[tiny summit]

But the hive needs the clouds

[iron marten]

A puff of smoke

[oblique totem]

If the hive burns, there will be plenty of smoke.
Which might also be considered clouds.

[wanton dawn]

Also keep in mind: I like testing weird talent that never works

Sometimes you find good stuff that way

[regal smelt]

Krak grenades with Skirmisher can be kinda funny. It's kinda annoying to run around a little bit to get the stacks up but you're able to fully dump a monster instead of just half a monster

[ebon umbra]

longshot killzone dreg gunner flak armor body shot 1 tap no blaze away or crit??

[wanton dawn]

Skirmisher is very hard to get value of

[regal smelt]

It could be so good but the way it tracks your sprint is completely against you

[wanton dawn]

I don't consider killzone to be "weird" though. it is the default path if you go exe

[ebon umbra]

disable killzone

[regal smelt]

They should nerf executors stance so all it does is give you yellow hud, and you have to spend an extra talent point to get your DMG back

[tiny summit]

Remember lads we provide them the clouds to the skies they will never see

[wraith locust]

So is this saying one charged and one normal is optimal for crushers

[bitter turtle]

no

just uncharged spam

later on i realized

because 3 uncharged > 1 charged damage

you can get 3 uncharged kill easily without carapace

1charged needs cara

so it frees up a perk

you can run elite for a comfy 3 uncharged bp

without needing v much modifiers

[wraith locust]

Wait doesn’t one charged one normal kill faster than 3 normal?

[bitter turtle]

also you have the chance to just straight up 2 shot

[wraith locust]

Isn’t that top right in the video?

[bitter turtle]

no

top right is crit

[wraith locust]

Assuming no crits

[tall torrent]

I am so close to getting Moebian 6th armor

[bitter turtle]

lol

[wanton dawn]

1 charged is technically still worse for several reason

[wraith locust]

Ohhhhhh

Sorry on mobile

Can’t tell

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[tall torrent]

4465/4500

35 points to go

[bitter turtle]

i included it bc its relevant to consider how much faster you kill if u crit 1 one of the shots

twice as fast

and that's ignoring the freed up perk

also the fact that you knock down the crusher immediately on uncharged vs just standing there charging is somewhat relevant too

there are basically only downsides to charging lol

[wanton dawn]

I still want someone to show me a video of charged having more wall pen that base shot

[bitter turtle]

i recorded that bc someone was claiming charging is a faster kill

they're basically exactly the same

[wraith locust]

Ok wait so the conclusion is, charged is slower ttk and more ammo consumption?

[bitter turtle]

its the same ttk more or less

2 frames is basically nothing

[wraith locust]

Or like same

Yea

[bitter turtle]

same ammo consumption too

[wanton dawn]

The conclusion is that you can use charged as much as you use braced on agri brauto

[bitter turtle]

but the downsides are

• doesnt have the chance to crit for twice as fast ttk
• requires carapace on your gun
• you do nothing while you charge, uncharged knocks the crusher down immediately

[abstract storm]

Does anyone have any good tips for the "Adept Assassin" penance?

[wanton dawn]

Got it using my preferred plasma build

well, one of the variant at least

[hearty panther]

Doesn't stack Blaze Away as quickly

[bitter turtle]

well

that part doesnt matter for the crusher ttk

aside from probably being 1 of the factors that help you avoid carapace perk

the context of that convo was just someone claiming you should always charge for crushers "because its faster"

[wanton dawn]

charged might kill you

[bitter turtle]

oh

and that too

lol

[hearty panther]

Yea it's just all downsides tho. There's no value to charged shot unless you actually need more than 20 cleave which is super rare

[bitter turtle]

there's also the human error of letting go exactly when you max charge

vs just spamming left click

its probably why it was slower by 2 frames maybe

[tribal tangle]

worth buying from melk?

[tall torrent]

No

[tribal tangle]

infernus bad?

[bitter turtle]

very bad

its 1/4

[tribal tangle]

unfortunate

[bitter turtle]

so you cant full fix it

you can buy it and keep specialist damage if you're very desperate(?) i guess

[tribal tangle]

nah i dont "need" anything

[tall torrent]

Specialist isn’t useful for Helbore

U need maniac

[bitter turtle]

ya

but i mean its that or groaner damage

[tall torrent]

Specialist is not enough to push to a breakpoint

[bitter turtle]

in the hypothetical that you buy it

[last parcel]

think it gets flamer bayonet 1sbp

[tall torrent]

Bayonet 1 tap flamer without perks

Precision strikes is already enough

And there’s like a <2% chance you’re not gonna take precision strikes on a Helbore build

[unreal bone]

This penance is gonna drive me crazy

I hate how you can't do it solo.

You need atleast 3 people to do it, and it's SO EASY TO DO

But there is always one idiot who ruins it every time

[bright cliff]

what penance

[unreal bone]

Quick Work

It's SO easy, but I stg one random per match just doesn't know how to read text chat

or have vc on

or have a brain at all

[bright cliff]

gl lmao

[tribal tangle]

Go to lfg and get a full team

[unreal bone]

I've sat in LFG for like

hours apon hours

to find a team

[last parcel]

shoutout to the random who threw the capsules off the top when we had them lined up

[unreal bone]

Shoutout to the fucking random who downed two times in a Level 1 sedition mission

when I'm also trying to do dream team

[bright cliff]

sometimes I forget you can do dream team in sedition

[tribal tangle]

the difficulty makes a difference, most people are playing damnation and auric

[bright cliff]

I think just playing normally I only have 5 or 6 out of 100 for that

i wonder where the perfect mix between difficulty and competence is in pugs

[unreal bone]

Nowhere

It's nowhere.

[bright cliff]

I think if the loot system was better you’d find more people hanging out in heresy

I never have problems finding competent legend lobbies in V2 for example

whereas cata still exists

[tribal tangle]

thats because cata is a huge step in difficulty from the last

[bright cliff]

so is auric maesltrom damnation to auric heresy

[tribal tangle]

not like vermintide, vermintide is much less forgiving, you have so much at your disposal in this game

[bright cliff]

yeah this game is on average a little easier I suppose

[unreal bone]

This game is easy.

[tribal tangle]

you cant really tank hits in vermintide

[unreal bone]

Which is why my mind is boggled

[tribal tangle]

especially on cata

[unreal bone]

How people can SUCK so bad at it

https://tenor.com/view/wtff-cat-confused-orange-gif-25858653

[bright cliff]

but I still think the veteran players would hang out in lower lobbies if the loot was still worthwhile. as it stands I feel like I’m wasting time if I’m not doing auric mael damn

[tribal tangle]

you don't get anything additonal for auric, you get the same material as normal damnation

[bright cliff]

damn fr?

[tribal tangle]

yup

[bright cliff]

penance progress I suppose

[bitter turtle]

lower lobbies is worth it

[bright cliff]

that shiny new title

[bitter turtle]

if you mean low int damnation

[tribal tangle]

thats why most people just do damnation for material runs, no reason to work extra hard for the same amount

[bitter turtle]

aurics dont give you anything extra

[bright cliff]

wtf are they there for then lmao

nvm I still enjoy them

[tribal tangle]

personal challenge

[bitter turtle]

for fun

[tall torrent]

@bitter turtle we need to do this one lol

[bright cliff]

normal damnation is kinda boring

[bitter turtle]

normal damnation is mindnumbingly dull at this point

[bitter turtle]

ya lol

[tall torrent]

I’m legit 35 points away

[bitter turtle]

damn

im still 500 pts

😔

i cant bring myself to play oger more

its so boring

[unreal bone]

I'll do it

[tall torrent]

The moment I started playing specific missions in auric for points the progress was just much quicker

[unreal bone]

I am also

sub 100

from 4500

[tall torrent]

[astral valve]

[tall torrent]

The only build I enjoy playing on ogryn is shield + GG/kickback because I can turn my brain off

I’m gonna cheese auric storm survivor with shield ogryn

[bright cliff]

foldable shovel on ogryn to kill 5 crushers with one heavy

crunch plus thrust4 is crazy

[tall torrent]

Later tonight maybe

[unreal bone]

I'm gonna try forming a group for it again right now

[tall torrent]

Cuz I’m outside rn

[tall torrent]

Did u do the lucky bullet one

[bitter turtle]

no

[tall torrent]

[bitter turtle]

my oger isnt even capped

i just hate playing this class

lol

[bright cliff]

only one I havent finished

takes sooooo long

[tall torrent]

Go Karnak private sedition, bell skip to final room and use all the ammo spawns + ammo crate to shoot as much as possible

Shoot all ur ammo then leave mission

[trim hemlock]

waew. A Bolter upgrade

[tall torrent]

The faster u get it done the less brain dmg u suffer

[trim hemlock]

after... what, a year

What should I do with the other change I wonder...

[bright cliff]

I already finished zealot and then I said “ogryn will be easy lets do that”

[trim hemlock]

Up Flak* to 25%? Pinning Fire upgrade seems to be largely redundant, it'd contribute to merely 5% damage on full stacks

[bright cliff]

[tall torrent]

Ogryn at least doesn’t force u to play out of ur way to get penances

It’s just tedious progress

[bright cliff]

now I’m magdumping at the end of every mission just for more progress

[tall torrent]

I’m honestly not sure which one is worse

Lucky bullet 4500 proc

Or krak kill 500 armored enemies

[trim hemlock]

Kraks are worse IMO

[bright cliff]

not looking forward to that one tbh

[tribal tangle]

just run shout with upgraded kraks ez

[trim hemlock]

They are a "bad" grenade, and while BLO "requires" you to play Achlys stubber for maximum procs, at least it's an effective playstyle

[tall torrent]

Throw kraks at bruiser & scab shooter horde

[bright cliff]

truuuu

[trim hemlock]

and Kraks effectively encourage you to krak... not elites

[tall torrent]

They count

[trim hemlock]

which is bad

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus speedrun: crab walk 2500 kills

“Pre-release ratling class gameplay”

[trim hemlock]

I had fun with that penance

Lawbringer Scatterstopper

[wanton dawn]

ciag deadshot

[tame lodge]

Darktide smoke spots

[bright cliff]

ciagv mentioned ciagv mentioned

why yes I do use ciagv and catachan4 on every class thanks for asking

[last parcel]

[tame lodge]

Actually viable tutorial

Spot #1 - Your feet

[prime elk]

Sick of that bloody Error:2014 disconect B.S.

[swift bear]

Trying to farm Power Cycler IV... do I just upgrade 350+ power swords to blue or is it better to get them to orange?

[tall torrent]

Roll to gold

[ebon umbra]

l

[austere pine]

how big of an asshole are zealots running loner?

[swift bear]

depends on how good/bad they are

[austere pine]

i find myself despising them from the get-go and then they prove themselves to be exactly what their aura says they are, a loner - not fit for the team

but i'm nearing the point on zealot where i'll need to run loner, somehow, and it's terrifying

[swift bear]

my friend plays loner all the time... and he's pretty good at it. The main issue is that most of them never bother knowing what's going on with the team and are alone the entire game going ahead, which is dumb

it's honestly just best to play with a zealot loner if you are in voice chat with them

otherwise, gross.

[tall torrent]

For the penance? Yea

[austere pine]

how tf do i even run it? martyrdom? inex judgement? piety? fury?

fucking

chorus

[tall torrent]

Do loner backstab and stealth backstab at the same time to salvage some sanity

[austere pine]

i have invis backstab already

but it might help be actually get backstabs, yknow

yeah right, as if i'm gonna be running sedition

i might need to do ascension riser on sedition...

[trim hemlock]

No. One requires elites or specials (Shroudfield), and Loner requires shooter backstabs

Unless Gunners = Shooters, then they might qualify

Shotgunners certainly are not shooters, and Scab stalkers aren't qualified as shooters, either, supposedly.

[austere pine]

ranged

[tall torrent]

Yea you can backstab 4 gunners in 1 hit and that counts as 4 for both

[austere pine]

meaning stalkers, shooters, shotgunners, gunners and reapers

and even snipers

[tall torrent]

As long as they don’t have a melee weapon out when you backstab them, it counts as “backstab ranged enemy”

[austere pine]

watch stalkers pull out their melees when i get into melee in invis

[trim hemlock]

So scab shotgunners don't count, but dreg ones do?

jfc

[tall torrent]

Stalker and shotgunner draw melee if they see you get close

[austere pine]

why would... they not count?

[trim hemlock]

BECAUSE

[austere pine]

both count? they both have ranged?

[trim hemlock]

they are melee units in ranged disguise

[tall torrent]

But if they don’t see you and are using their gun then you can backstab them and it counts as backstab ranged

[trim hemlock]

i.e., scab shotgunners and stalkers

[austere pine]

kjerad tweakin

[trim hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-ichiban-yakuza-like-a-dragon-gif-11649290704908345713

but at least dreg stalkers aren't disguised

they are shooters by default

[austere pine]

sometimes they're considered shooters, sometimes stalkers

[trim hemlock]

so even if they pull melee out, you can push them, dodge behind their back, and do a friendly stab

[snow cypress]

HI,which meele weapon do you recomend for a infiltrate build?

[trim hemlock]

Combat Blade Mk6,
Power sword Mk6,
... probably Combat axe Mk2

[snow cypress]

thanks 😄

[trim hemlock]

Infiltrate can benefit from a flexible weapon, hence these recommendations

I personally like Mk6 Combat blade the most

[snow cypress]

Understood 😄

[wanton dawn]

Man I wish I would not play with infil or shroud ppl

[trim hemlock]

[snow cypress]

infil seems to be funny,isn't it?

[trim hemlock]

But then the elf rat tradition would not be continued in the critically acclaimed game of Karktide ™️

[tame lodge]

Inflated Ego mindset

[agile forge]

Chainsword 4 is funny with infiltrate

They don't hear you rev it in stealth

Which is both silly and actually a good tech

[austere pine]

i use it as a specialist/elite picking tool

[split sapphire]

Hmm

[austere pine]

and depending on the class, i either use it for one or the other

zealot struggles with elites because there's more of them, but they get more bonuses for that one target you really want gone

vet doesn't struggle as much with either but they can't onetap crushers, reapers, bulwarks or mutants

milk jug, sponsored by milk himself

[lilac kayak]

Shroud Zealots don't struggle against elites tbh, they just let everyone else handle the problem while they carry on.

[somber axle]

unless you decide to go all in on clown tactics and make a Mk III Helbore capable of 1HKOing Crushers or double down on Plasma charging for a 1HKO

but most people do not do either

and I'm not sure anything else in the Vet arsenal is capable of 1HKO on a Crusher

Mk III can definitely one tap pretty much anything though

everything short of actual bosses

[radiant chasm]

depends on the weapon

mk4 chaxe with punishment talent can bully mauler packs

[midnight totem]

man, I just played a game with the happiest gunlugger ogryn

three psykers and a gunlugger

all of the ammo in the world was his lol

[austere pine]

carapace packs are quite the exception to this because of knife or hammers

[radiant chasm]

crusher can handle that, mk4 chaxe if you are criminally insane like me

[austere pine]

https://tenor.com/view/waltwhite-breakingbad-say-my-name-gif-7259290

[radiant chasm]

mostly just weaving unrev'd lights with mk4 chaxe

[radiant chasm]

jokes on you i can't read

[umbral granite]

Me and my friend have been arguing back and forth on which of our two playstyles is better. My vet playstyle is "Bring a 'yes' amount of grenades, and headshot ranged enemies with my slug shotgun, while using shout to motivate my team to kill the thing i marked with the golden outline". His vet playstyle is "hang back and snipe everything his stance highlights for him with the helbore, then stealth up or pop smoke to do objectives/revive a downed teamate."

[lilac kayak]

Shout support playstyle is the safer pick for newbies though exec style is very strong as long as u don't get downed too often.

[umbral granite]

I use a hybrid of shout-support and grenade spam, he uses a dedicated stealth-sniper build

[tall torrent]

Let’s just say that neither slug shotgun nor stealth Helbore are rly in the conversation of “meta” lol

So just play whatever u want

[umbral granite]

Fair enough

[lilac kayak]

Any playstyle can work but yeah helbore stealth is uh unique, same as shotty support

[umbral granite]

I mainly use slug-shotgun because I can basically go a whole round without ever needing more than maybe 1 or 2 small ammo tins

[severe gale]

atp isnt that just like using a revolver

[umbral granite]

Slug can break bulwark shields or knock a crusher out of his swing, revolver can't

[lilac kayak]

In terms of ammo efficiency, las weapons like helbore n las pistols are prob the best at saving ammo

[severe gale]

fair

[lilac kayak]

Revolver is the meta for zealots

[hollow ibex]

Mostly worse tbh lol

[hollow ibex]

Revolver is very powerful with weapon spec vet

Though if you want to run it as a primary shotgun might be better

[lilac kayak]

why revolver when u have a plasma gun for vets

[hollow ibex]

Because it's cool

[tame lodge]

Welcome to vet, we have plasma, Ciag and Zarona

Maybe helbores

[umbral granite]

It is also fun to grab the agripina revolver, executioner stance, and pretend you're playing mcree in old overwatch 1.

[icy heron]

Can you get Power Cycler IV in the first blessing slot?

[tame lodge]

Some brautos

[icy heron]

I am about 10 power swords in and I havent gotten it once

3 or 4

[umbral granite]

What blessing get's put in what slot is random

total RNG

[icy heron]

Are they equal chances

[hollow ibex]

If the emperor smiles upon you

[tame lodge]

Some shotties and definitely no recons nor autopistol

[umbral granite]

Slug shotgun is more than likely one of them.

[tame lodge]

I'm a Lawbringer myself but yeah slug is fun

[umbral granite]

never used the lawbringer... mainly because i could never roll one with more than 65% damage

[tiny summit]

Those are baby numbers. There are dudes with like 5+ pages of no PC4

Then there's me with sunder and PC4 first try

[midnight totem]

wooo, 4110 penance score

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/we-are-going-to-beat-you-to-death-gif-22343236

[umbral granite]

Nice

[tiny summit]

I haven't made another power sword

[umbral granite]

Side note, I FINALLY rolled a psword with bromentum... and it was tier 4

[lilac kayak]

then theres some nerds who use the armoury extension app to check the shop every hour

[umbral granite]

the stats on it were objectively trash, but it had bromentum 4 for me to rip off of it

[tiny summit]

Yea, I don't have that extension. Play game, check store. Don't play? No check.

[fresh jungle]

wait how's he using exe stance and stealth at the same time?

[umbral granite]

My mind blanked and got the marksman keystone and stance mixed up

[last parcel]

executioner's focus

[quaint valve]

Worth the pickup?

[umbral granite]

I dont normally use the autopistol, but it seems to have really good base stats and decent looking blessings...

If you have the melk-bucks to spare, feel free to go for it.

[bitter turtle]

i queued into a game and realized halfway through that this was my tree from when I was fucking around trying to make krak nades do the most dmg possible on bosses

https://i.gyazo.com/77e6eacf7c8760d60fa16fe6d869d9ff.png

(still did the most dmg on my team)

[sinful swallow]

based or cringe

[bitter turtle]

i would get a new one

stability is literally useless

#veteran-class message

[sinful swallow]

LOL

[tiny summit]

Uh sure if you have spare melk bucks and want to wait for a patch

[terse idol]

Damage dump stinky

[tiny summit]

What does a 0 stability ripper gun look like?

[left crag]

unstable

recoil to high heavens

[tame lodge]

You literally lose the sights from your UI

You gotta look at the floor to shoot whatever is in front of you

It's okay-ish against bosses

But not what you want

[left crag]

the crosshair reset after a burst already slow on 70 stability

0 stability possibly worse

[cunning galleon]

Is there any steam in-depth guide for veterans that is similar to Orgyn's Ogrynomicon?

[placid portal]

Surprising there isn't any currently

[rigid pilot]

Isn't there one in the pins

[last parcel]

yeah

and it's getting updated

[tame lodge]

They did specify Steam, but a guide is a guide, right?

(Maybe because they found Ogryn one on steam)

[tall torrent]

Not on steam, but I’m working on an updated guide

[umbral granite]

My friend told me that he wishes the Demolition team talent gets nerfed, because he saw me toss 2 grenades into a mixed group of dreg ragers and dreg gunners that were at the end of the hallway, and suddenly get those 2 grenades re-stocked when everything died.

[tall torrent]

Ur friend doesn’t know how to rly play veteran and that’s ok

[umbral granite]

I am trying to teach him... he's still stuck on the "Loner-stealth-knife" mindset (where he wants to run ahead and shank everything, then pop stealth when he gets in over his head).

[tame lodge]

Lots of things need nerfs but I guess that's another story

And definitely not related to the small chance of getting those grenades backs

5% putting in some work

[last parcel]

do you remember how many there were? i kinda want to calculate the probability now

[shut vector]

I am so glad I have finished the stealth penance so I can put that shit back in the garbage where it belongs, shout is life

[umbral granite]

I would say at least a "yes" amount of gunners and a swarm worth of ragers...

auric damnation numbers tend to just be "a 'yes' amount"

[tall torrent]

Demo team is 1 in 20

On avg

It can proc twice randomly

[bitter turtle]

thats fine if he doesn't die tbh

[tall torrent]

It can also not proc from 40 consecutive kills

[bitter turtle]

or get trapped

or dogged

thats the hard part for most ppl

[tall torrent]

Most people are horrible at surviving on their own without coherency

[bitter turtle]

ya

you have to know that at a minimum to play that way

also have a read on the situation if you do need to go back to your team

it might sound like "no shit" but if you're doing hounds modifier

and you hear the dogs go off

you go back to the team

stuff like that

[umbral granite]

On hound modifier missions he brings napalm grenades instead of his throwing knives... to quote him "I can just toss down napalm and the dogs cant hurt me"

[bitter turtle]

im not saying that solely about personal safety

but to also group the hounds so they ufnnel through 1 choke

[umbral granite]

Oh, i agree, but he really doesn't like having to stick with the team...

On a totally unrelated note, He still struggles with heresy level missions

despite having played longer than me...

[tall torrent]

[rigid pilot]

Does he type passive aggressively when the team doesn't pick him up

[last parcel]

well in that case, I just chose some arbitrary numbers and ran a script to do the math for my amusement

[umbral granite]

I would probably say the number was arround 20... though, knowing auric damnation, 20 might be a bit less than what was there.

it was a roaming rager swarm that was walking past a squad of dreg gunners

[rancid swan]

Has anyone completed the "On overwatch" Penace? From what I've quickly gathered that is almost impossible to do unless you wither go through the rigorous effort of trail and error or jumping off the map.

[rigid pilot]

Doesn't work

[last parcel]

It's possible.
Run Voice of Command and stack toughness. Melee attacks that hit you when you have 100% toughness won't go through, so you have that one buffer.

[rigid pilot]

You can block attacks

You can get hit at 100% toughness

Just don't lose any hp to melee attacks

Yellow pee shout works too

Just do a malice and shoot gun

[shadow aurora]

Get a melee with block efficiency and stamina curios and side dodge your way throughout the entire mission

[rigid pilot]

Yea and hold block

[last parcel]

and dodge when you hear the woosh of an incoming melee attack

[somber axle]

You could also try it with Infiltrate, Overwatch node and Low Profile node
Infiltrate stealth when things get spicy but know that Low Profile gives you -90% threat for 10 sec after stealth break so you can fight freely both in melee and at range without fear as long as an ally is near (be careful around Maulers/Crushers though since an ally dodging a strike can lead a hit into your face anyway)
Overwatch node gives you +1 infiltrate charge so you can chain stealth/low profile buffs to stay out of danger when things get too hot
Get curios with +4% combat ability reduction on each and use that with Overwatch because it gets a lot more value from those curio perks
Grab an ability CD reduction stim and hang onto it for moments when things get EXTRA spicy

Low Profile is really funny because while the buff is up hordes, specials and elites will literally walk past you to beat up whoever is next to you instead

Say a silent prayer for the Psyker who is going to suffer and hug them

[last parcel]

Don't hug them while the Crusher overhead is coming though

penance > love

[somber axle]

Yes very true

Blow them a kiss instead

kiss their ass goodbye because the Crusher is

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-splat-splach-splachbob-gif-9403840413380767209

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/space-jam-flat-dead-gif-12526743

[unreal bone]

And with this penance

I am done

[rigid pilot]

Battle pass expansion when

[grand perch]

Please don't before I have 100% penance completion

[unreal bone]

Fuck 100% penance completion

the barrel penance is the worst designed penance in the game

[rigid pilot]

Worst/best

But now I've got people stealing my barrel kills

And they should count fire barrels too

[grand perch]

It is but I'm getting there #darktide-pics-vids message

[rigid pilot]

That's crazy

[grand perch]

And it shouldn't be limited to barrels but also the ball things and explosive pipes, and progress should be shared within the fire team

[unreal bone]

BRUH WHAT

THE BALLS DON'T COUNt

YOU'RE SHITTING ME

[grand perch]

Nope. It's ridiculous

[unreal bone]

Dude

[rigid pilot]

I don't know how they count who used the barrel

Isit the igniting guy

Or the exploding guy

[unreal bone]

The exploding guy

[grand perch]

Yup.

[unreal bone]

I know this becaus I stole a barrel kill from someone who ignited it

[rigid pilot]

So if you ignite and don't explode you get nothing

[unreal bone]

Yes

It's literally

the worst designed penance in the game.

[rigid pilot]

Maybe the execution could be alot better

But they count ignited barrels as environmental damage in scoreboard tho

[rancid swan]

So jumping off doesn't work anymore?

[rigid pilot]

They fixed it

You gotta do legit now

[rancid swan]

Hm. Good to know as I'm going to pretend to know or remember half of this. I'm only doing it for peace score and I think it had cool looking armor.

But so basically just pop stealth back to back. Try for the love of the God emperor himself that some random Enemy doesn't poke me from behind.

[rancid swan]

Right. On the scale from 1-10 how much of my mental state will be left intact after this endeavor?

[grand perch]

It's not that hard if you put your mind to it consistently

[last parcel]

probably like 9-10

[tall torrent]

It’s a rite of passage of learning how to play vet in higher difficulties so I’d say somewhere like 5~7 depending on ur skill lvl

[rancid swan]

So basically mentally fried. Also I mean I feel like if I just follow the given advice I should be alright. I just gotta know like what type of mission is best to do it on.

[tall torrent]

Orthus offensive (private)

Bell skip to boss fight immediately and just position urself to not get hit

U can use VoC or stealth to try to mitigate any potential hit you might take

[rancid swan]

I mean I've just got my vet lol 30 yesterday and made different skill sets for curtain things (Mosty for penance) and yeah. So I'm still relatively knew to the whole thing.

[tall torrent]

What’s the highest difficulty you can clear right now while taking minimal dmg across the entire mission

[somber axle]

Infiltrate and Smoke Grenade both have some really cool green camo armour! And you can suppress enemies by just popping out of stealth next to them, hordes included. It'll get you progress on the Infiltrate suppression penance while you try for On Overwatch!

Idk if On Overwatch has armour as a reward off of the top of my head though

[tall torrent]

It’s required for the inquisitorial agent set

[rancid swan]

I've been chilling at malice recently. But I've done hersy and survived so I mean perhaps hersy I don't even remember when I did it

[tall torrent]

Killshot’s duty

[tall torrent]

Try to do a couple missions with the sole purpose of minimizing any Dmg u take

[somber axle]

Ooo that one is a GOOD one

[tall torrent]

That gets you in the groove to try to complete this penance

I have runs where I take <50 Dmg across the entire mission in damnation so it’s not as bad as u think

[rancid swan]

The most recent ones I've done I took like maybe half to 75% of the full first bar. I use VoC and I believe have a alot of toughness and each kill or Melee gives me toughness back and well I'm the guy who stares down a horde and comes out practically full health

[tall torrent]

Whenever you hear enemy backstab sound cue you just block

[rancid swan]

Only time I lose a lot of health is when I either do something stupid or get jumped my orgryns, Chaos beast or just kinda unlucky when a horde spammed maulers and gunners

[tall torrent]

Malice doesn’t have that many enemy spawns so it shouldn’t be that bad

Just remember to block

And use dodge against dangerous attacks

[rancid swan]

So do I sit in a corner and let everyone fight or like just keep moving and try not to get touched

[tall torrent]

My suggestion is to play a couple games with the mindset of minimizing any Dmg you might take

Even in the thick of battle with specialist & elite spam

When you’re comfortable enough with that, you can try to go for this penance, just be a bit more mindful and sit backline a bit more

[rancid swan]

Or other penace I'm fighting for is long arm. Trying to get a krak nade to either stick or not bounce is tougher than thought

[tall torrent]

But you’re not entirely excluded from melee

[tall torrent]

Long bomb is frag only

You aim throw it high at ~40m

Goal is to have it explode before it reaches the ground

You can also try throwing it directly above your head and it’ll prob fall down and blow up midair around you

Never tried that tho

[rancid swan]

I thought it said krak gernade! Bruhh also I mean most missions I'm on that wouldn't work simply cause I'm usually in a building. But 40m I'll have to see about that cause I've had plenty of opportunities

[rigid pilot]

There's plenty of missions

One with the elevator and horde coming across the bridge is an easy one

Torrent something

[rancid swan]

I will say I'm jealous of a guy who has literally Krieg outfit I saw yesterday. I want it so bad. But I digress...

[tall torrent]

Chasm logistratum final event

Magistrati oubliette first drop long catwalk

[rancid swan]

I was just on that one

Can't you cook the gernade?

[tall torrent]

No

[rigid pilot]

No

[rancid swan]

Great. So yeeting it is then

[rigid pilot]

You can practice in psykanium too

[tall torrent]

I finished 4500 penance points

I can start working on the guide tmr

[somber axle]

CONGRATS

[tall torrent]

Moebian 6th set is good but they need to release the helmet + mask combo headgear

It doesn’t pair that well with other stuff I have

Decided to just buy this set

[midnight totem]

Congrats on 4500

[rancid swan]

I'm still going for a krieg man look on my vet. But I'm looking at other guard regiments and... I never realized how many there are.

[tall torrent]

Krieg set is prob not coming back
Blame fatshark’s fomo micro transaction shop for it

[rancid swan]

Ah. Always something isn't there. But I found a gas mask that looks... similar and have a good body and pants to go with it to kinda said yeah krieg regiment uniform.

Then I have another more regular guard regiment.

Again I won't lie I'm still new hell I just figured out the difference between gun types and damage and stats.

[tall torrent]

I’ll have an updated version of the pinned veteran guide up soon

[rancid swan]

I used to just be like "Oh higher rating better gun" Now I realize that some guns are good just different

[terse idol]

eventuuallly™️

[lilac kayak]

Smoke nade works as well since I accidentally got it while doing the smoke penance

[normal spruce]

Veteran did not benefit that much from toughness regen perk on curios right?

I meant to say toughness

[idle warren]

no way what a steal!!

[frank monolith]

[sinful jacinth]

Also got it because it is black for the most part. I should fit with other things more easy. I left the headpiece though. The ski hood thing is not for me. xD

[indigo lily]

Hello I'm a beginner. You advice me what build for plasma gun build and what melee weapon please ?

[vernal sundial]

the weapon customization mod has actually made matching more of a possibility

it’s a godsend really

[trim hemlock]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9bfe34c9-50cb-429e-8442-e55dfcb36fdc/flexible-plasma-voc-focus-target-survivalist?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

You probably could go along with something like this

there are 3 skill points remaining, you can go for some things you like with them

Even not spending all the points in Focus Target keystone is probably fine, which is going to give you even more free skill points (make sure to at least take Target Down upgrade)

[agile forge]

Most people seem to spend 3/4 on FT now

Skipping the 8 stack

[indigo lily]

What you think about this build please ? https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9bfe4755-d14f-408f-b67e-7fdf9bb3c123/plasma-gun-8?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

[trim hemlock]

Yeah, I’d say it’s probably the least valuable node in that keystone

[junior needle]

Change slaughter to brutal or sunder

[trim hemlock]

I don’t think Flak does anything remotely useful for Power sword. Same thing for Unyielding on Plasma, albeit I’m not sure how relevant Bulwark HP buffs were for that perk. Power sword also better uses Brutal Momentum or Sunder; Slaughterer is somewhat overkill on it. The skill tree is OK, albeit neither Plasma nor Power sword really use Reciprocity all that well. Close Quarters Killzone might be a bit more consistent/predictable in use.

[rigid pilot]

Does different thinfs

But I really like brutal

[trim hemlock]

I’d also avoid toughness regen and ability regen on curios - VoC doesn’t benefit from the regen, and toughness regen is redundant with how much (a lot) of toughness you can replenish via skills or VoC

[junior needle]

I'm aware, but brutal is just far superior to both slaughter and rampage

Being able to kill 4 bruisers in a swing is difficult to compete with

[trim hemlock]

Ability regen is nice while using Infiltrate with Overwatch upgrade, because the cooldown of that ability is noticeable enough for these properties to have a tangible effect

[rigid pilot]

Sunder is for going through shields or smth

[junior needle]

Oh excuse me, I'm saying slaughter should be turned into brutal or sunder

Not that slaughter is better than them

[rigid pilot]

Ah

[indigo lily]

You advice what for curios please ?

[trim hemlock]

• toughness and stamina regen are quite staple in my book

I use Ordo dockets for the third property, but that’s because I like having a lot of Ordos

But if I were a sweatlord, I’d probably grab + health, corruption resist or even stamina sprint efficiency

Gunner/Sniper resist can also be solid situationally, but I rarely use either as I avoid getting into situations where they are useful in the first place

[indigo lily]

I replace by carapace for both ?

[trim hemlock]

Carapace is OK for power sword, but for Plasma I’d rather go +Flak or +Elites

[indigo lily]

Like this ? https://i.imgur.com/u4VSfcs.png

[trim hemlock]

[indigo lily]

Ability regen no work for VoC ?

[trim hemlock]

It’s so minuscule it rarely if ever is relevant if you have the skill in middle bottom tree that reduces the cooldown on special enemy kills.

Look at it this way: VoC baseline has a cooldown of 30s. Ability cooldown regen curios give 4% each, for a summed total of 12%. Reducing the 30s cooldown by 12% shaves merely 3.6s of cool down time off of it, which is really, really small

[indigo lily]

I see

[umbral granite]

You are better off relying on tactical awareness (the talent that repleneshes some of your cooldown when an elite dies) for accelerated ability cooldown at that point.

Side note: Krak grenade vs Frag grenade, which do you guys generally prefer?

[trim hemlock]

Always frags, at the very least until Kraks have a “niche” to fulfil (they currently are outclassed by mundane weapons IMO).

I typically throw a Krak at something, it beeps, the target dies shortly before it goes off and it all is just

[indigo lily]

Psword is the best with plasma gun build ?

[trim hemlock]

“Best” is a strong word, but there’s an argument to also consider other melee weapons

Power sword just so happens to murder everything, but your mobility is fairly low with it, so it has a trade off

[umbral granite]

I mostly agree with this notion.
Toss out a frag, you clear a room of trash-mobs and can focus on the bigger threats, who now happen to be staggered.
Toss out a Krak, it either sticks to something with armor and might go off before your team melts the thing you kraked, or it sticks to the boss and staggers them while also taking a quarter of their health (assuming there arent any buffs/debuffs applied).

[serene bough]

I use Stam regen + block efficiency on my curios

Shredders can also stagger bosses

[trim hemlock]

I could also consider taking smokes, because they are a fun alternative to just murdering a group of enemies in front of you, albeit I typically like to see direct effects of my actions. Smokes are a nice alternative if you prefer to benefit the team in different ways than just “kill more”

Smokes also cut down on tax nodes for travelling to the right part of the tree, which has relatively good options when compared to say, left hand side of it.

[umbral granite]

I've seen smoke do work, tossing it down on the guy doing the objective so ranged threats don't aggro onto them, and denying gunners line-of-sight

but... I havent seen them used for anything else

and I am of the opinion that it's better to just eliminate the threats then distract them

[near grove]

At that point just have psyker pop a bubble shield, helps with toughness and protects from ranged

[serene bough]

smokes also fill a niche but yeah killing a room is better than disorienting

the only time a smoke is reliable is if you have an entrenched spread out gunner patrol already firing on you

[trim hemlock]

In ideal situations, yeah, but sometimes mistakes are made, and instead of something dying you can/have to* stall the situation a bit, but besides smokes disabling ranged threats, like shooters, trappers, flamers or gunners, they can also enable aggression

I think there’d be more uses for them, had jumping on a group of enemies be not as simple as it is today

[serene bough]

if shredders were tuned down a bit and kraks were tuned up id say the grenades are all even picks

kraks just need to detonate faster

[somber axle]

Kraks are anti-boss too. With a Chainaxe and a couple kraks you can destroy a Daemonhost and save a team mate from getting their soul ripped out. Shredders are just going to stagger at best

It's just that Vets prize what Shredders do more than what Kraks do

Shredders are really good at mixed horde clear and creating space

[serene bough]

thats more so because other weapons are more consistent and reliable boss killers

[somber axle]

A lot of people play Vet with Plasma and/or Power Sword and both are very low mobility weapons

fat roll Dark Souls style

[umbral granite]

Shredders clear rooms full trash mobs, Kraks delete big singlular threats

[somber axle]

being able to use a Shredder to create space is more important for those playstyles

[serene bough]

taking an extra chunk of boss HP from a krak is significantly less useful than 2 shredders clearing an entire room

[somber axle]

you have two weapons that turn heavier enemies to mulch already

[trim hemlock]

I think it’s a fair point, albeit bosses in a situation where everyone is aware how to quickly handle one, are generally push-overs and don’t require you to have a tool specifically to disable them (VoC typically has that quality by default, VoC + krak is an epic disable boss setup, and Kraks by themselves are probably totally valid for that purpose on non-VoC setups, if you feel like you need something anti-monster)

[serene bough]

especially when plasma and knife are already great at downing bosses

[umbral granite]

Me who uses chainsword and slug-shotgun as my vet loadout of choice.

[serene bough]

bosses really are only a threat when paired with other specialist/elites that is true

[umbral granite]

Or when the spawn grabs someone and throws them at the demonhost...

which has happened to me 6 times now

[serene bough]

well, in situations like that its better to have awareness of where not to fight the boss, i.e. in the proximity of the DH

that being said, sometimes you just get unlucky

[umbral granite]

I once got eaten by a beast, who then moved ahead to the next room and vomited me right back out on top of the demonhost

while my team was dealing with a dog wave

[somber axle]

Context is important. Generally yes but saving a team mate from a Daemonhost is the most valuable thing to me and it's also really fun

Wiping out a horde with flak ragers and bulwarks quick and easy using 2 shredders is also really good

[umbral granite]

If you have demo-team, chances are you will replenish some of those grenades that you used to clear the mixed horde.

[serene bough]

if someone triggers the host i just let them die

unless you got some zealot thunderhammering its HP away in 1-2 hits

[umbral granite]

Hammer zealot, or if the one the host has aggro'd is a shield ogryn

[somber axle]

Yeah but generally the bigger threats are what end quickplay pugs in my experience. Bosses, Crushers, etc. and shredders are just delaying them. Kraks can kill 4 Crushers at once if they bunch up but since a lot of people run CIAG or Plasma a lot of Vets don't really have fear of Crushers until they get cornered

I build for dealing with the things I see as run enders

Pretty much everyone is built for taking care of specials/elites/disablers so they're never a concern and really anything I run will kill those too anyway

Hordes are a non-issue imo

But I hunt Crushers and bosses with immense prejudice

[umbral granite]

I'm apparently a weirdo because i use the slug-shotgun as my primary... 1 slug staggers the crusher out of their attacks, and procs the full bore while setting up no respite.

[somber axle]

Shotgun mains on Vet are rarities yeah. Agrip Shotgun is a very solid pick for anti-Bulwark and anti-Crusher as the single weapon left in the game post-update that can 1 tap shield break stagger a Bulwark

the vast majority of Vets I see are running autoguns or plasma

and they do nothing at all when rooms full of elite shooters appear

making me on my Zealot run around clearing ranged trash when it's the Vet's job

sorry my mistake

non-elite shooters

basic gun boys flood a room and the Vet pretends he doesn't see them suddenly

[umbral granite]

The sound shields make when i break them is just too satisfying for me not to main agrip

[frank monolith]

Hey that might be my mk6 knife veteran, youll see me shoot once or twice and go melee

[gray finch]

zealot getting more benefit from normal shooters so it really zelaot job to deal with thme

[serene bough]

whether you deal with ranged trash is dependent on your build and your team's comp, in all fairness

[somber axle]

I had three Vets all go down recently to a pair of gunners and a large number of non-elite shooters and I was practically screaming at my monitor "literally any of you use your gun"

they weren't even out of ammo so idk what they were even doing

even bots know to shoot back

[gray finch]

as i said the vet sould only care about elits gunners and not the trash ones

[somber axle]

ok so then who do you think should take care of the non-elite shooter packs if not the Vet, the ranged class, most specialized for taking care of threats at range?

are you praying an assail Psyker is in the squad to spam knives down range?

[gray finch]

if you go zealot you getting ful toughness on just 1 dodge

so why veteran have to care when you are unstoppable force

the only think that can stop zelaot is elit gunner sinve you ainge getting any toughness on dodgin the m

[somber axle]

if I go Zealot and have to sprint around a wide open room without cover break dancing clown style from corner to corner killing gunners, reapers, shotgunners and non-elite shooters because the Vets are concerned about their ammo I wish I could break their guns over Vet's heads because at least then they gun would be used

[gray finch]

but still zeloat can just kill tem no problem

[somber axle]

yeah I can kill them but if you're a Vet participate in shooting them down

don't go afk because you're scared of losing some ammo

[frank monolith]

Prolly not me but usually i tend to be a veteran zealot with a knife and plasma gun, the plasma gun is used for balwalk killing and triggering weapon specialist and the knife is used mostly for everything else. If there is a horde of gunners plasma go zoom.

[gray finch]

the reality is the vet is easly the weakest class of them 4

[somber axle]

the reality is that's not true

[gray finch]

psyker can easly outshoot vet zealot can out melee them

[somber axle]

no?

[gray finch]

ogryn is all of them combined

[somber axle]

if you're being outshot by Psykers that's a skill issue my dude

[gray finch]

have you every meet a good gunpsyker?

[somber axle]

yes I've been a good gunker

be a better Vet and you'll outshoot them

[serene bough]

again, context is important, zealots and vets can both handle ranged trash but weapon loadout and build orientation may facilitate easier trash clear over the other

[frank monolith]

Disagree i tried melee focus pysker it didnt go too well. Vet focus melee is surprisingly great if you use your range to proc specialist from time to time ||melee from those classes are done with mk6 knife same perk and blessing, only doffrence is ranged weapon but my ranged weapon is used for balwalk dealing xd||

[gray finch]

1 kill = everythink aroud dies

[umbral granite]

Unfortunately, most of the good gunkers i know stopped playing gunker after the last patch.

[somber axle]

yes and it's why I hate Plasma meta because they're deathly afraid of helping take care of any ranged trash ever

or if they do they become ammo vacuums because it's so inefficient for taking down multiple non-elite shooters scattered around a room

[serene bough]

personally i'm not a fan of the philosophy that classes have "jobs" they are expected to do

[gray finch]

is said zelaot not psyker ?

[serene bough]

playing vet does not mean I need to always counterfire ranged trash

[somber axle]

someone has to take out the trash and I am tired of being the ambulance and clean up crew all in one so if you're reading this as a Vet who turns their nose up when non-elite shooters appear please start shooting

your team will appreciate it

it's easier to pick you up off your knees if I don't have an entire room of guns aiming at me when I do it

[frank monolith]

Sorry brain is foggy and missread your sentence. I just came out of a 4 hour lecture and currently in gold fish mode

[gray finch]

np

[serene bough]

I dont disagree that vet can handle ranged trash, but I also think every other class is just as competent in dealing with it, and who should deal with it is heavily variable on build, team comp, and the current combat situation

[gray finch]

psyker is by far better at long range then a veteran

zealot is bettera at melee

ogryn os both of them if you know how to

the only think that fs make veteran so bad is that they make veteran more of a melee class instead of range only range weapon that save vet is a plasma

and is full on melee builds

[somber axle]

Depending on loadout, Zealot is either ill-equipped or less equipped for dealing with large rooms of scattered non-elite shooters behind cover outside of rushing them down in melee which can be risky depending on other factors like elites, specials/disablers, bosses, etc.
Gun Psyker is more ammo thirsty than most Vets and if they spray their ammo on all the shooters while a Vet pretends his trigger finger is numb then they're going to be red ammo faster
And idk if you're serious about Ogryn against non-elite ranged trash because yeah twin stubber is solid but don't complain about the Ogryn vacuuming ammo if they're being forced to use it to clean up ranged trash because you're not shooting back

[serene bough]

Oggy and zealot's main benefit is locking ranged packs in melee, and then not dying when in melee combat

psyker has plenty of utility and ranged DPS to also deal with ranged trash

you know, when you get in melee with ranged trash others will also enter melee to attack you and stop firing

sure, Vet w/ an iLas and shocktroop is going to have the greatest ammo efficiency and sustained fire in a firefight, but not every vet brings an ilas or should be expected to bring one all the time

[agile forge]

It depends on what gun the vet brings anyway

If you bring a plasma or a revolver then you don't really wanna focus the trash shooters

if you're bringing a CIAG then you kill anything

(especially if you go e stance)

[somber axle]

Versatility is a treasure
Look at this list:
Hordes, ranged trash, melee trash, specials, disablers, elites, armour, bosses
If you read any of those things on the list and your thought was "well it's not my job to deal with that, someone else in the squad should do it" then you're making your team carry you whenever those problems appear

[frank monolith]

Plasma, mk6 knife and smoke is how i deal with those

[somber axle]

If you've got an answer to every problem, you're the solution and I like getting matched with Vets like you don't worry

[serene bough]

i'd definitely advise in picking a build that specializes in one role only

[somber axle]

For Vets who like pretending that someone else should do things for them, please consider not making people do things for you

[serene bough]

you should always make builds that enables you to handle multiple combat situations

however, knowing which situation you are the strongest is the key, and that's not always pidgeonholeing yourself into specific jobs

[tiny summit]

It's zealots job to deal with ranged trash because I have to let the bleed/lacerate shroud zealot get his penance done

[somber axle]

Legate I hated doing Loner penance SO SO MUCH LMFAO

[frank monolith]

Same concept on my zealot, i now run laspistol instead of zarona to deal with range enemies if they are too spread out in a big room. Its not that bad of a gun if you can crit frequently with fury. The only thing my zealot cannot handle in melee is 3 firing gungryn, but if they are in idle/roaming animation my zealot can eat them with a knife

[somber axle]

but I love playing Zealot SO SO MUCH

[midnight totem]

lmao

[somber axle]

Thammer and Knife are dreams on Zealot

Heavy Sword was really fun to play with

but ducklings are the bane of my Loner penance life until I finally got it done

never Loner

never again