veteran-class

[frank ether]

a graia/columnus brr will never ever offer anything of value in those segments

not to a veteran

[white minnow]

sure, and the braced autos are sufficient for many of those such situations

you can force engagements to happen up close if necessary or just tag enemies at a distance at a slow and painful rate, but at a nonzero rate

i don't disagree they have their weaknesses but rarely have enemies at a long distance been a make-or-break scenario for a game

and that such scenarios can not have their gap closed

[frank ether]

a zealot will use the same weapon and make that weapon work to those 20-30 meter engagements because with one dodge they null the entire spread and they just took that on the way to thy wrath be swift so it wasn't even a big investment like exe stance is

These guns have some genuine design problems

they need urgent help and its not a dps buff

[white minnow]

i disagree since close-range is where a lot of the meaningful engagements happen

[frank ether]

nor is it better blessings

[white minnow]

i don't get why you keep bringing up DPS

i've not talked about it

for fuck's sake

just stick to your god damn argument instead of bring up random shit

[hexed cloak]

people who minmax and use meta builds vs people who use the things that look cool

[frank ether]

I sticked to exactly what I started with

[white minnow]

yeah and I didn't disagree with it

[frank ether]

I saw a dps chart and said why I think it means nothing

[white minnow]

yes and i already explained that was in the context about an argument between the brautos

i.e., the base assumption is that you were picking a brauto and were choosing between the three

this argument that we're having is outside of that

anyhow, i think caring about long range is a meme unless you have literally no way of dealing with it (flamer/no throwing knives or purg/smite), and it does not matter for an overwhelming majority of map sections

[frank ether]

20-30 meters is not long range

[white minnow]

it's still fine up to that range if there's a significant density of enemies at that range

and if you can't move up to that range, then the brauto is probably able to deeal with whatever is preventing you from moving closer

[frank ether]

the ''close range'' 7m or whatever is quite literally one step away from melee range

[white minnow]

yes and i'm saying that there exists situations where you can rack up deathspitter/fire frenzy

or enemies are not dense enough for melee to be strictly better

[frank ether]

even a fucking shotgun works at 30m without crouching and building for spread reduction

[white minnow]

sure

once again

i am not here to argue what is better

i don't care about optimality right now

my only argument is that there exists situations where brautos are going to be better than melee in a close range engagement

i don't see why you are arguing so hard against this

[crude fiber]

speaking of optimal, heres from a recon game. the other vet was running survivalist so that helped a bit

[white minnow]

i am making an extremely non-statement

there is almost nothing to argue about what i have said

because i have said only the most lukewarm of takes

i am being intentionally lukewarm and i'm still somehow getting argued over it

[frank ether]

I'm not arguing against you lmao

[white minnow]

...

[crude fiber]

the barauto in question

[frank ether]

you're getting worked up over what I'm saying

[white minnow]

yeah and what's wrong with being worked up?

[frank ether]

I came here to say my piece about what I think about brautos

[white minnow]

heaven forbid that I care about something and am angry when I perceive that somebody is not getting my point

[junior needle]

Think you could adjust a few points for usage

[crude fiber]

let me know what but i was going all in on stam and crits

[frank ether]

I could not give less of a flying fuck about how you think 7m ranged engagements are valid

maybe they are maybe they aren't

I just saw yet another dps chart and I wanted to talk shit about dps charts and how little of a fuck I give about them

[junior needle]

Objective information is helpful

[crude fiber]

nu uh

[white minnow]

so just being angry for the sake of being angry even though that dps chart was not used to promote the usage of brautos

[frank ether]

it doesn't portray the reality of the use case

[white minnow]

anyways, i'll just say that i generally disagree with the usage of brautos on vet in terms of optimality and leave it at that

[frank ether]

all 3 brautos could have equal DPS and agri would still be the go to

hell you could give the other two extra

agri would still be the go to

[radiant chasm]

I use agri brauto cause ive had it since my days of a rambo vet

[frank ether]

unless they beat agri by a really crushing amount

[radiant chasm]

And ill never let it go

Spent too long crafting it

[frank ether]

because agri is the only brauto that can shoot shit worth a damn past 10 meters

[crude fiber]

i like the columnus big mag tho

[pseudo fiber]

I used Graia because it fucking shoots fast and is fun

[radiant chasm]

I love the ramp up as you get kills, nothing is better than blasting through a horde to the special on the other side

Oh remember when they changed fire frenzy to give fire rate instead

That was funny

[frank ether]

I make all 3 work well on zealot

but thats zealot

[radiant chasm]

Made your weapons waste more ammo and have more recoil

[crude fiber]

graia is my least favorite, it feels so weak even if it shoots fast

[frank ether]

yeah it was funny

though it was probably a bigger dps increase

[pseudo fiber]

I used it with weapon specialist to make it shoot even faster it's a fun time

[crude fiber]

pop a blue stim while your at it

[pseudo fiber]

Exactly gamer

[crude fiber]

mag dump 100% speed run

[radiant chasm]

It’s an unreliable dps increase though

[somber axle]

I want to try this now just because the faster something the more I love it

[junior needle]

Recons all have pretty poor weakspot modifiers, and so lower than average value from precision strikes. They do however go from near pinpoint accurate when ads to having a substantially bigger hipfire spread, so determined is a surprisingly good pickup. You can see this here: https://imgur.com/a/MnVC51a

Reciprocity is pretty poor for getting stacks from ranged attacks due to the particulars of how it works, so just keep that in mind. Taking the 5% crit chance would also be good generalist pickup.

[pseudo fiber]

Ignore me shooting at fucking nothing

[radiant chasm]

And more firerate on kill means more chance of wasting a bit of ammo

[frank ether]

well not like there are many reliable guns in this game besides iags

as far as dps hoses go

[radiant chasm]

My inflas

Pew pew

Jk

I cant enjoy the lasguns

[frank ether]

me neither

I just prefer autoguns

any kind of autogun over lasguns

I hope they do some kind of braced gun rework and include the autopistol in there too

[radiant chasm]

Vraks 3 is basically a dps hose

Just line up heads

[frank ether]

sure I'll give vraks 3 that

its pretty reliable

[junior needle]

Born leader is also not very good

[frank ether]

mainly because the recoil pattern is good

vraks 3 got the good recoil

[radiant chasm]

Click, hold down click (i use full auto mod cause i tried using the mk7 on vanilla and my carpal tunnel got carpal tunnel)

[junior needle]

And going through the damage aura is not as efficient

[frank ether]

I think Vraks 7 needs some penetration

[crude fiber]

determined is meh when running exe stanc imo, i know precision is mid on recons but figured damage was damage. if i drop precision would you say go +5 crit or marksmen focus?

[frank ether]

I also think this for agri revolver too

not a lot

just enough to go through one target

[radiant chasm]

Yee vraks 7 is good it is literally just lacking penetration

[frank ether]

Ya literally all I need is to be able to shoot through ogryns and the occasional chaff in the way

[radiant chasm]

It isnt needed for auric damn but you feel the absence of it

[frank ether]

I noticed I do a lot better with headhunter+deadshot on V7 over surgical

lack of pen really messing with me

[radiant chasm]

Imo my experience

[frank ether]

I'm very used to nutty helbore shots that just punch through like 3 shotgunners at once

[radiant chasm]

I toggle my full auto mod on and off for v7

I also use headhunter deadshot

[tall torrent]

This depends on build

[junior needle]

I'd have to see how much the spread differs with exe on, I didn't test it. That would require me to update my mods and I don't feel like doing that as I won't be playing until the actual content drops.

The curse of low base finesse applies to MF as well, focus target would be the best option if one wanted a keystone but you could take it if you wanted.

[radiant chasm]

Surgical is nice but it’s better on helbores

vraks 7 has the hypothetical fire rate to keep blasting target to target

Or chain hits on big lads

[frank ether]

it has pretty decent rate of fire and no pen whatsoever so headhunter unironically feel better

[tall torrent]

Some builds have pretty crazy toughness gain that born leader gets somewhat hilarious

[frank ether]

surgical I want to kinda see on iLas 12 just to get a feel for it

[crude fiber]

problem is im 2 points away from focus target and i only have 1 point +5 crit it is

[frank ether]

crit node aint too bad on some builds

yeah its only %5

but %5 is still %5

I don't think of crit like damage

[tall torrent]

It’s good for Lasguns and IAGs

[frank ether]

its a chance to do a lot more damage

and proc things like deadly accurate

the value is deceptively high on crit

but if you use a brauto then its not so hot

[quick burrow]

whats the standard build to run for the mk5 column ?

[frank ether]

is that the infantry autogun?

[junior needle]

It's a lasgun with shocktrooper so more crit is free damage

[frank ether]

literally anything will do on columnus iag

yes, literally anything

run it naked, it will work

if you want godroll I guess flak/maniac and dumdum with whatever else second

[crude fiber]

infernus or dumdum for mk6 recon? currently have infernus

[tall torrent]

I’d say Infernus tbh?

[frank ether]

I like infernus+headhunter on mine because I want it to feel different

[crude fiber]

i remember liking infernus but dumdum is pretty good on mk7

[tall torrent]

Dum Dum is actually pretty interesting because it’s not +close ranged dmg

[frank ether]

sometimes I feel like infernus probably should have been a built-in thing for recons

[tall torrent]

dum dum buffs blitz and DOT dmg as well

[frank ether]

ooh

[junior needle]

Going exe starves you a bit more for points not just for the ult tax but also for going out of your way for the good nodes like nade regen. If you went voc you could do something like this with points to spare: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9bf9b422-4f15-45b4-94a1-98ec0bc41ffd

[frank ether]

dumdum buffs dot

thats interesting knowledge

[tall torrent]

Infernus’ burn DOT ticks also stack dum dum

[frank ether]

Idk though

wouldnt you still want headhunter in practice

[quick burrow]

I mean talent build I have a near god colum 5

[frank ether]

because you sure as hell arent sustaining deadshot with the faster recons

[tall torrent]

Yes which sucks

[frank ether]

yea as I thought, rip r*con lmao

[tall torrent]

In an alternate timeline, a psyker is currently playing SG + true aim + DD and burning everything down with an Infernus + dum dum recon6d

[junior needle]

Yeah deadshot usage on recon is quite rough

[quick burrow]

This is my.bad Boi I only have tier 3 of the DMG on close hit one though so I haven't swapped fire frenzy off

[frank ether]

It doesnt matter

this will work

[junior needle]

Dumdum is still much better overall value because it's essentially always active

The difference between tiers of it is very small

[quick burrow]

Tier 3 dum dum better than t4 fire ?

[junior needle]

yes

Undoubtedly

[quick burrow]

Then I shall swap it until I can snag 4

[crude fiber]

ultra crusher killer meme build. sneaky cat would be proud

[junior needle]

Unless you only kill things within a 7m range

[frank ether]

its bugged for ages and better than any other dmg blessing

most other dmg blessing kinda blow

[junior needle]

It seems to be the intended design

Other sources of close range damage were changed to work like dumdum, which works like anoint

[frank ether]

I used to think bromentum on helbore was also as such

till it wasn't

[junior needle]

Thing is

After dumdum was working that way

They changed other things to work that way

[frank ether]

to this day I'm still not sure why nerfing g.gauntlet melee or bayonet was a priority

but moving on from that tangent

I like that dumdum at least worth having

[frank ether]

oh, did they now? Last I asked I was told close damage is now 7 meters

[junior needle]

So close damage is different from close range

Close damage has been normalized to work like anoint in blood

A damage increase that tapers off up to 30m

Close range is now about 7m

From the 15 it used to be

[tall torrent]

Not exactly

There’s a difference between close DMG and close ranged DMG

[junior needle]

Hol up

[tall torrent]

I make the distinction between my guide because close DMG also buffs ur melee

Close Quarters Killzone

[junior needle]

Oh ok

That makes sense

[tall torrent]

Dum dum technically is close DMG since it buffs ur blitz & DOT dmg but none of the weapons that can access dum dum have melee attacks

[junior needle]

I assume the ranged adjusting portion of close damage is the same as anoint and everything else

[tall torrent]

Anoint in blood is close ranged dmg that somehow works for DOT (no idea how)
At least I’m not making a zealot guide

[junior needle]

Because I tested cqkz a long time ago and it just cut the damage bonus beyond 7m

[tall torrent]

Fire frenzy is close ranged dmg but does not improve blitz/DOT

[junior needle]

And then was told it was changed to work like dumdum

[tall torrent]

I have very clear distinction between what affects what in my guide

[junior needle]

Turns out raising a big stink does work

[tall torrent]

Hold on
It actually does

lol

At least DOT is improved

Lemme check again

This is very weird

[frank ether]

always did

[thorn lark]

anoint only works on dots / nades everything if you have your ranged weapon slot active

[frank ether]

the only language big corpo understands is massive outrage to the point even normies hear about it .d

[thorn lark]

by the same logic, longshot works like that too

[frank ether]

though ngl I didnt think sony would budge

[tall torrent]

So
Deathspitter and fire frenzy both seem to improve DOT dmg
But not blitz dmg

Dum dum improves both blitz and DOT dmg

CQKZ improves ranged, blitz, DOT and melee dmg

[junior needle]

Between that and the stellar blade censorship (And false advertising about it) they were in a PR hole

[tall torrent]

[frank ether]

yeah but numbers are everything honestly, like how the damage falls-off is very important, it doesn't always mean its a linear line

[junior needle]

They'll probably try it again in the future

[tall torrent]

Ok I gotta word this a bit better

[frank ether]

I wouldn't be suprised

Its sony

anything is possible

I remember they copyright striked pyrocynical's video over a song

[tall torrent]

Longshot buffs any dmg on enemies 8m+ away

[frank ether]

and then refused to settle for the money they asked for because they were cashing in on video ad revenue

[thorn lark]

i was talking about the ranged weapon slot active

you lose the buff if you switch

[tall torrent]

Oh ok

[thorn lark]

(the source is Commissartyr, so reliable)

[tall torrent]

I need to word this close dmg / close ranged dmg stuff better

[thorn lark]

so dumdum goes well with infernus

let me find you his quote

[junior needle]

I helped by instigating this investigation

[tall torrent]

Seems like +close ranged dmg always buffs DOT but not blitz
Only CQKZ buffs melee
Both CQKZ and dum dum buffs blitz

[junior needle]

Well, it's a boost but I wouldn't say it goes well because you still undoubtedly want headhunter

[tall torrent]

Dum dum + Infernus on laspistol is not bad

For recon yea

[junior needle]

In practice I found the laspistol just kills in too few shots, and especially if you crit

So infernus is mostly boss damage

[tall torrent]

Mk2 with Infernus is ok

[junior needle]

I've only used the mk2

[tall torrent]

Mk10 I’m just not a fan of

Idk how people make it work

[junior needle]

More one taps

[tall torrent]

Pretty much

[tall torrent]

The 1 taps are pretty range limited (unless full sharpshooter tree) and the maniac DPS is sorely lacking

Imagine MG12 but it takes 3 headshots to kill a flamer

Yea it’s about that bad

[thorn lark]

#zealot-class message

[junior needle]

Strange, I thought laspistols could put out more dps than the ilas

[thorn lark]

yeah i was thinking about the laspistol... latest mael monstro i did like 200k dmg with it against bosses (using a bp build)

[somber axle]

OH HEY

Idk how many people here also play Helldivers 2 but

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1787331667616829929?t=NhwAEm4fGpVJj-UyI1lrXA&s=19

PlayStation (@PlayStation) on X

Helldivers fans -- we’ve heard your feedback on the Helldivers 2 account linking update. The May 6 update, which would have required Steam and PlayStation Network account linking for new players and for current players beginning May 30, will not be moving forward.

We’re still…

Twitter · May 6, 2024, 4:00 AM

[junior needle]

I've barely touched them so I'm only going by what I hear

[somber axle]

They actually did it LMFAO

Decision reversed

No PSN account linking

[junior needle]

#veteran-class message

[thorn lark]

inb4 the chorus of simp

[pseudo fiber]

Funny as possible. As I said I would I deleted my negative review

[tall torrent]

Not in maniac dmg

Flak dmg yes they’re pretty good at it

Maniac dmg is horrible

[somber axle]

I am slow because I work a lot and get info depending on whenever my friends find out LMFAO

[thorn lark]

yeah it's better on crit zealot with knives

[tall torrent]

I would actually unironically take recon 2 over laspistol mk10 for killing flamers

[junior needle]

Ilas do have a hueg modifier to maniac, what do the laspistols look like

[somber axle]

Still another 2 hours of work ugh

[thin socket]

I ain't ever want to hear vets are not the most spoiled class in the game no more

This is silly lol

[somber axle]

Yeah all the people who refunded are going to buy the game again all over again

[tall torrent]

this is Mk10 laspistol with 80% dmg + 80% SP (no maniac perk or rending)

it is actually a 4 headshot kill

it's so laughably bad

[timid otter]

No scoreboard with time

[junior needle]

I more meant the modifiers, but that is quite bad

[tall torrent]

I don’t care for modifiers as much as actual shots to kill

Maniac is 78.6% smth I think?

[thin socket]

42 minutes iirc

[tall torrent]

But maniac has rly low weakspot bonus somehow

[timid otter]

No but seriously seeing the actual dps is more interesting then the total score

[thorn lark]

laspistol on vet huuuu

[thin socket]

it was a long mission, cuz I had to solo 3 times

[thorn lark]

maybe with marksman?

[tall torrent]

this is some pathetic maniac dmg

[timid otter]

Thats shit dps

19k per minute

[tall torrent]

laspistol 2 gets away with shit maniac dmg because it shoots fast enough + crit weakspot helps quite a bit

mk10 however

peak dogshit I'm afraid

[thorn lark]

i forgot mk10 exists

maybe it can work on psyker?

[tall torrent]

Mk10 Laspistol is actually just MG12 but it takes 3 shots to kill a flamer

[timid otter]

I think you played a good game but its not proof of a rock solid build.

[tall torrent]

Yea maybe
But also the pinned psyker guide says between the eyes is good on laspistol when it has built-in permanent suppression immunity is a bit ???

I genuinely don’t see any reason to take mk10 Laspistol over mk2

[thin socket]

kant laspistol is dogshit

acc las is infinitely better

[thorn lark]

the pinned guid is made by Pygex

and he has opinions

on gunner resists / tougness gen curios

[tall torrent]

Idrc abt his hot takes on those

[thorn lark]

on BM on taxes

[tall torrent]

The fact that between the eyes does actually nothing for laspistol and he puts it as recommendation is a bit weird

[thorn lark]

gunner resist bad / tg regen very good

[timid otter]

Its a large document anyways

Theres bound to be mistakes.

[thorn lark]

yes

grain of salt

[tall torrent]

changed my "close DMG" description, prob accurate now?

[thorn lark]

it's not a collaborative effort afaik

[timid otter]

He poured alot of time into also just researching the most obscure things ever

[junior needle]

Two of the 3 tax variants are kinda carried by BM, assuming you can actually reach bruiser breakpoints

[thorn lark]

but it's a effort nonetheless

[timid otter]

Which regardless is likely useful to someone

[junior needle]

But it's an unhealthy relationship and they're just worse combat axes

Except for the 4, which has an actual niche to itself

[thorn lark]

yeah, i know and with sg + dd / or warp charges or the one with peril... you can access some good damage

[thin socket]

Mine?

[timid otter]

Yes

[thin socket]

It's dumb brain dead if you're good at not being bad

[crude fiber]

do laspistols have suppression immunity by default? it never felt like they did

[thorn lark]

caxes without melee attack speed are kinda pain when you are used to fast weapons

don't every try the eviscerator without it

it's just soooooooo painfully slow

[tall torrent]

Yes

There’re 4 gun types that are baseline suppression immune:
Plasma gun (technically, because it cannot ADS or brace)
Helbore lasgun
Heavy laspistol
Combat shotgun

Also, all Psyker staves are immune to suppression because ofc they do
I guess zealot’s flamer counts too?

[thin socket]

Any means in which you can acquire 10% melee atk speed is a must

[thorn lark]

i agree

[thin socket]

It's a pure night and day difference

[tall torrent]

Player-side suppression is extreme ADS sway / shot spread (in the case of recon) you get

[thorn lark]

on zealot you can afford no to do it, because you have chastise and inexorable judgement helping you...

[thin socket]

I always grab the atk speed node

On zealot.

[thorn lark]

it depends on the weapon

[thin socket]

And now I do it on vet, since power sword is just busted for no good reason.

Having played all 4 classes up to 100+ levels, vet's such a spoiled child lol

[junior needle]

I feel that, but I'd just use a different weapon altogether rather than resort to a 2/7 taxe

Their qol is not very good

[thorn lark]

let's say it's tiring

like the knife, without the benefits of big crit dmg

[thin socket]

Ridiculous toughness sustain, shouts incredible, plasma is silly easy to use and nets every single kill possible, power sword requires little thought

[junior needle]

In fairness, the knife also has dinky damage on bodyshots and taxes don't by comparison

So it's all finesse

[thin socket]

Despite all of this sounding like a complaint, its incredibly fun being just a wall with major power weapon options.

[junior needle]

But I'd much rather use a chainsword and psyker especially has force swords

[thorn lark]

plasma + shout + psword is really console player lvl of meta

it's braindead

[thin socket]

It is.

But that's the devs fault for making them really effective, not mine

[timid otter]

Zealot, psyker both outcompete veteran right now.

[thorn lark]

i disagree

[thin socket]

Disagree.

[timid otter]

How they both do it however is abit differnent

Psyker is a more simple case of just packing as many damage buffs ontop of a class as possible.

[thin socket]

Vet's core kit and nodes are so strong, that he doesn't need keystones at all.

[thorn lark]

i like the fact that both force sword are vastly different

[thin socket]

I will admit that the moment you run out of ammo on something like plasma, your options on approach feel bad.

[junior needle]

I like how obscurus has been memory holed

[thorn lark]

what's an obscurus?

[hazy dust]

No other class can claim that

[thin socket]

That's why I grub a decent amount of the ammo if I can, but it's ammo economy is so simple.

[thorn lark]

[frank ether]

sure is handy you can actually melee ragers now lol

I dont obsess over maniac as much as I did now

[timid otter]

That has more to do with vets keystones anyways just plain not being as impressive.

[thorn lark]

i miss og ragers

(no jk)

[timid otter]

Its also that vet has a larger talent tree.

[frank ether]

the rager/bulwark fix biggest W of the patch

[tall torrent]

yea but 4 headshots to kill a flamer on a 158rpm gun is crazy

[frank ether]

somehow it didn't make the game feel any ''easier'' like some claimed either

[thin socket]

Bulwark is my favorite change.

[thorn lark]

vet tree is my favorite

there's so much choice

you can do vastly different things

[timid otter]

I somehow feel like despite all the choices it converges towards the same talents.

[frank ether]

oh, I mean yeah. I never understood why flamer was maniac anyway

[timid otter]

Especially at the end.

[thin socket]

The only thing I'm missing right now is a T4 power cycler and I'm set.

I got everything else I need.

[thorn lark]

top tree zealot is the wors offender ever, no choice in blitz, everything good on the right...

[timid otter]

Seeing supremacy, iron will on near every build isn’t that unusual

[frank ether]

you mean left surely

[timid otter]

Which blitz?

[thorn lark]

the nades

[timid otter]

Which nades?

[thin socket]

Iron Will has no right being as good as it is.

But it is, so I'm taking it. It makes you tank things you normally can't on other classes without having procc'd certain talents.

[frank ether]

If you go pure right tree on vet you're kinda left with nothing but iron will as TDR

[thorn lark]

if you want a specific nade or knive you have to invest in the nodes before

vet lets you chose, at least

[timid otter]

Ye but thats not what i asked

[crude fiber]

you got stuns, fire nades or throwing knives, knives are on right side

[thorn lark]

oh sorry

[timid otter]

Which blitz ability do you think that zealots generally go towards?

[thin socket]

Stun nade is ok if your group actually abuses the openings they give.

Fire is still one of the best in zealot kit.

[frank ether]

fire is the most popular from what I've seen

[thin socket]

Knives are hit or miss, it's entirely dependent on player skill and servers being cooperative with hit reg

[frank ether]

but stun I would not disregard as weak, as it gives you strong openings or saves

[thorn lark]

you chose the one giving you the more point economy

[crude fiber]

throwing knives are cool but not always needed in a build, id almost always want to run fire nades if not knives

[timid otter]

Then why did you say this?

[thin socket]

But to say top tree zealot is lacking good nodes is wrong

[timid otter]

Doesn’t that mean the tree is diverse at the top?

[thin socket]

There's a lot of solid options for both offense and sustain

[thorn lark]

because if you want a specific blitz you have to invest in the nodes before

[thin socket]

Not really.

[thorn lark]

good fucking lord

[thin socket]

You can still make most playstyles work.

[crude fiber]

top middle zealot tree is pretty mid imo, i tend to go right then loop around to left depending on the bui;d

[thorn lark]

at what expense?

paying double?

[timid otter]

I went abit on a tangent here anyways.

[thorn lark]

right tree is packed with good nodes

[timid otter]

I wanted to see how well you understood the class.

[thin socket]

So is left and middle tree.

[thorn lark]

not really lol

[thin socket]

Yes really.

[frank ether]

all 3 blitz got some pretty decent nodes before them

[thorn lark]

compared to the right? nope

[somber axle]

The value you get from the nodes in any part of the tree is dependent on your playstyle and loadout. If you feel as though certain parts of the tree lack value it is probably because they don't synergize well with your preferred playstyle and/or weapons

[crude fiber]

middle tree is pretty mid all the way down imo. beacon of purity is pretty useful but id rather avoid wasting points into most of the thing before it

[junior needle]

Knives are too low reward for the effort imo

[somber axle]

They're good but for specific ways of play

[thorn lark]

that's a separate problem from having to pay several talents to get access to your blitz

[junior needle]

So they're usually a concession for going crit builds

[frank ether]

you talk as if veteran reaches their blitz for free

zealot reaches their keystone several points easier than veteran

zealot tree is not amazing but its not as awful as you make it either

[thorn lark]

i have a 580 zealot, a 500 vet, a 320 psyker, a 200 ogryn and 2.2k hours in the game, mostly playing hisg / aurics

[radiant chasm]

Maybe we should focus on the real crime

That is the psyker tree

[thorn lark]

so yeah, i know the mechanics of each classes

[frank ether]

psyker is a mess

[radiant chasm]

I love grabbing all 4 toughness regen talents at the top

[frank ether]

at least I enjoy building a zealot

a lot of fun toys in there

[radiant chasm]

And still getting my keystones with points to spare

[somber axle]

Don't touch my Scriers Gaze

[thin socket]

Psyker is also really good, but it has a big ugly duckling on the right side of its talent tree

[radiant chasm]

Besides not being able to go crit chance aura to vent, psyker pathing is fine

[timid otter]

Wow thats actually really weird.

[radiant chasm]

It’s their point economy

It is really dumb and illegal

[thin socket]

there's no point in going left/right keystone. Mid is somehow always better because that's really the only one with enough consistency built into it.

[frank ether]

its not so much about talents but psyker mechanically is a problem class

[somber axle]

Building Psyker, Veteran and Zealot is really fun

[thin socket]

explain

[somber axle]

No idea how to build Ogryn tho

[thin socket]

Curious to hear your perspective

[thin socket]

Either melta gun or fat tank man

[thorn lark]

and vet has the luxury to go keystoneless

[thin socket]

ogryn has stupid high dps on bosses and thicker hordes

[frank ether]

shield bubble, staffs, peril, every unique thing psykers have access to trivializes some part of the game for both them and in most cases their teammates

[ebon umbra]

ogryn is scary because there is nowhere to hide

not for the heretics either

[thin socket]

Ogryns don't hide

[timid otter]

Have you ever heard of our lord and savior the throwing knives?

[thorn lark]

same

[thin socket]

They have their moments

[timid otter]

Rumours say that they can 1 shot specials.

along with the vast majority of enemies in the game.

[thorn lark]

are you talking to me? oO

[thin socket]

And other times they go careening off into the nether for some reason when you toss em while dodging

I don't like that they have weird bloom during movement

[frank ether]

Zealot keystones are stat buffs for existing, please.

[thorn lark]

that is a problem in itself

[crude fiber]

theyre pretty big buffs to be fair

[nocturne hazel]

what does each chainsword excel at?

[crude fiber]

though i tend to avoid right side keystone on zealot

[thorn lark]

at least weapon specialist asks you to do something

[thin socket]

It's a personal bitching of mine, but I just want my knives to fly straight with no arc.

[thorn lark]

not just exists / take dmg / move

[thin socket]

I just hate martyr personally

[frank ether]

that they are, arguably weapon spec is a lot stronger than momentum but the key takeaway is zealot ones are really braindead to use

[tall torrent]

I did some further digging
+melee power (headtaker) doesn’t boost DOT
+ranged power (full bore) boosts DOT
None of the +power blessings seem to boost blitz dmg tho

[timid otter]

What if there was a ranged weapon in the game that had the ability to instantly be fired without any delay.
With the ability to 1 shot any special expect mutants along with elites up to the level of gunner.
Requires no reload.
Has ammo that refreshes with melee elite/specialist kills
Has a cleave of 2.
12 ammo.

[thin socket]

left and right keystones for zealot are both solid

[timid otter]

Yes its the throwing knife.

😄

[thin socket]

But with how toughness and chip dmg works, it doesn't feel as good as it does in verm 2 with temp health being as reliable as it is

[pseudo fiber]

Revolver with weapon specialist baby

[thorn lark]

you forgot uncanny and manstopper in the list

[frank ether]

though to be fair, its not like veteran keystones are difficult to use either. They just don't always work for all builds.

[thin socket]

Yeah, mine doesnt need them at all.

[timid otter]

Throwing knife pretty much is a revolver with less cleave, armor penetration capability but with no reload, refreshable ammo.

[frank ether]

like why would I want weapon spec on my knife build? I already got carpal tunnel fine without that extra %25 attack speed.

[thin socket]

Plasma gun already 2 shots crushers, I really don't need any more dmg

[tall torrent]

Just pick mk4

Mk13g’s moveset is completely incoherent

[crude fiber]

here comes someone with optimal mk13 attack pattern. gonna look like a cheat code

[thin socket]

I actually like it more, funny enough...

It clicks really well with my brain for some reason

[thorn lark]

mk13 moveset is wrath + shred and spam lights, because how crits work on the chword (no adm fallof)

[pseudo fiber]

Yeah no that's it

You hit light with mk13

Love that weapon

[thin socket]

It feels like a hot knife through butter on atk speed zealots

[tall torrent]

That’s for zealot tho? I thought rampage is better than shred for vet

[thin socket]

with enough crits and cleave, every swing just sorta phases through hordes, mixed or not

[pseudo fiber]

I personally run wrath rampage

[frank ether]

I don't think zealot needs a keystone either to succeed. Its just that they give such commonly useful buffs that its silly not to take one tbh. I don't feel this way with vet keystones and honestly personally don't like the gameplay some of them offer.

[thin socket]

I'd say weapon is one I would use, if I wanted to with something like axe/csword and a acc pistol

[frank ether]

sometimes I actively go out of my way to make a build specifically tailored to make use of a certain keystone just so I can have a more positive opinion of it

[thin socket]

Left is maybe, really unsure if I'd like mid

[timid otter]

Tag is the easiest one to justify picking up.

1 point investment for atleast 8% specialist, elite damage.

[thin socket]

I'm a really chronic tagger.

[frank ether]

I don't want to fall into the trap of ''I don't like this so its garbage'' because vet keystones are at least on paper math, incredibly strong

[timid otter]

It really doesnt matter it does things anyways.

Infact the more you tag the more it does.

[tall torrent]

Yes tag everything, that’s how the middle keystone is meant to be played

[frank ether]

just as long as you give a few seconds between tags

to build stacks

thats how mid keystone is meant to be played

[thin socket]

But doesn't it have to refresh every 2 sec?

I don't wait that long tbh

I play almost exclusively on auric and maelstroms, so there is never not a time I have something tagged

[frank ether]

personally it annoys me a bit, having to tag every 10 seconds for breakpoints would drive me insane so I'll never play that way

when I do play focus mark I just take the stamina&toughness node

[crude fiber]

i tag all the time on every class, i do to help me see enemies and id like to think it helps my teammates as well

[thin socket]

It does

[thorn lark]

i whis they made the keystones less packed with stuff and gave more generalist nodes above (on zealot)

[timid otter]

I don't think it does anymore but at one point it might have

[thin socket]

There's nothing more helpful than seeing a dog in the massive hoards in the middle of prepping its pounce animation

[frank ether]

I also tag a lot to see enemies at times and I would kinda ruin the optimal focus mark stacks a lot on certain sections

[timid otter]

my tags are more for myself rather then my teammates.

[frank ether]

I think zealot needs better gun build

[thin socket]

I can maybe agree.

[thorn lark]

or a trapper / crusher before someone run to rescue you

[frank ether]

and a gun ultimate instead of the loner build it has maybe.

[thorn lark]

this so much

[thin socket]

It can still kill kinda well with guns

[tall torrent]

U don’t need to wait

[frank ether]

Idk I don't think its good for the game I'm sure someone will disagree

[thin socket]

but many of its gun nodes are pretty shit

[terse idol]

It just needs more uhhh, close range weapons

[tall torrent]

Focus target is the most misunderstood keystone in this game

[tame lodge]

Karking Emperor's Bullet bs

[tall torrent]

it has a minimum refresh mechanic

[frank ether]

could always use more guns, I want melta for zealot, proper lmgs, hellgun,longlas etc for vetaran etc etc

[terse idol]

[thin socket]

Hmm

[thorn lark]

i think 90% of my time on zealot is played with bolter + dance of death + knives

[thin socket]

I guess it matters if 4% is enough to kill something

[frank ether]

I think the key issue is zealot doesn't get a gun ultimate

[tall torrent]

It basically always resets itself to 2

[thin socket]

Off of 1 stack

[tall torrent]

If u keep tagging & killing

So it’s practically always +8% dmg

[thin socket]

I see

That might be pretty good

[thorn lark]

i am trying to do other stuff, like vraks hh

[thin socket]

some stuff survives with like a pixel of hp from a headshot

[tall torrent]

You’re meant to spam tag & kill as fast as possible

[terse idol]

I don't think it really needes it, middle build is like Zealot/Gun/Support build anywho

[thin socket]

I could drop 1 node for it...

[timid otter]

skipping focus target is usually more just lazy building rather then actually optimal.

In rare cases this statement might be wrong but usually its not.

[terse idol]

You don't need it

Not always

[tall torrent]

And focus target + redirect fire is just incredibly useful for loads of weapons’ breakpoints

[thin socket]

I feel like demo team does a lot for me

There have been times waves of elites and specials show up while i have zero nades, and suddenly I'm topped off

[frank ether]

then it could get something in the keystone department over matyrdom maybe, I think mistakes were made during development

[thorn lark]

chastise :/

[frank ether]

because zealot is the only class without a clear cut gun build

[terse idol]

How come?

Hmm

[tall torrent]

I have an incredibly cursed build

[terse idol]

I mean the top talents are your like gun build least that's the way I see it

[white minnow]

it's a shame there's no ranged ult but i think it's fine the way it is

[terse idol]

It's fire support

[white minnow]

they could've had one but i'm fine with how it is

middle tree talents are poopoo yeah though

[timid otter]

Not every class needs to have a ranged subclass.

[thorn lark]

they should break chastise down

[terse idol]

Disagree, I think they give your team alot more survivability if I recall

[thin socket]

If I had to drop one of these, I'm wondering which it would be

[frank ether]

So here is the problem

[thin socket]

I do like both of them

[thorn lark]

it's a do it all ultimate

[thin socket]

Covering Fire is good for teammates

[frank ether]

zealot already uses guns

[tame lodge]

And Inexorable Judgment works with ranged

[white minnow]

there's shield of contempt but then you have a lot of bangers like Unremitting and whatnot

[thin socket]

but grenade tinker is also nice

[frank ether]

just not on the intended ''gun support'' middle build

[tall torrent]

Nah don’t take it

[terse idol]

Especially now that we're taking alot more corruption damage

[tall torrent]

Covering fire is not worth it

At least not in this ammo economy

[frank ether]

you use guns with fury of the faithful and with the dodge finesse/spread+recoil talents

[tall torrent]

If ur gonna use covering fire just play smth like gloryhunter plasma + born leader

[frank ether]

thats how guns work on zealot, they are tacked on with their powerful melee build

[terse idol]

I just use like, boltgun or flamer for middle build fr

[thin socket]

I also tried to justify twinned blast

[terse idol]

Well yeah zealot has like 1 exclusive ranged weapon

[timid otter]

Its basically not possible

[frank ether]

gambling correctly I see

[tall torrent]

Covering fire basically forces u into using cleave guns and most of them aren’t stuff u rly want to spray at ur teammates at

[thin socket]

but I tend to hate on relying on a chance for my nades to do more

[frank ether]

yeah no twinned blast is a meme

[timid otter]

The only modifer where its somewhat viable is melee maelstrom.

[tall torrent]

If twinned blast was 20% chance to not use blitz charge on throw it might do smth

[frank ether]

it still doesnt sound worth it over grenade regen

and if you take both thats kinda redundancy

[thin socket]

Grenade tinker is just good

[tall torrent]

No but it’d be much better for Grenade spam builds

[thin socket]

I like reliable nodes that always do something

[terse idol]

You could just take both in this hypothetical and throw ALOTTA grenades

Along with tinkerer

[frank ether]

if you're gonna make it another grenade saving talent would be better off positioned near another ultimate to improve pathing for side ults

[thin socket]

Bold of you to assume my luck is good enough to proc a 20 percenter

[white minnow]

this is my categorization of the middle tree talents (red = poopoo/extremely niche, and yellow is meh)

[tall torrent]

Yea that would be nice we should delete Killzone & opening salvo (talent) from this game

[terse idol]

Something something math

[thin socket]

It took me 52k plasteel to roll one blessing on a staff

I still have all of the bricked staves on my psyker in commemoration of that moment in time

[terse idol]

You will likely get at least a few grenades back per single mission

And uh, I mean does anyone know if we have like, factors that make RNG more likely?
(Forgor the word)

[frank ether]

could still be better with a timer over a proc chance RNG

[terse idol]

All I'm saying is, you have a good chance to proc it a couple times per mission than not at all

[frank ether]

like say ''every X minutes your next grenade is free'' or something like that, replace it with the +1 grenade next to infiltrate

[timid otter]

Kill more things.

[tall torrent]

Martyr’s purpose is actually such a troll pick idk why anyone would ever take that

Then I remember there’re actually people who get the +2 wounds talent without taking martyrdom

[tame lodge]

I still believe that Unremitting should be where EB is

[thorn lark]

be careful, someone will challenge you by saying left and middle tree are good

[timid otter]

The emperor blesses those who grant hes mercy.

[thorn lark]

(they are not)

[terse idol]

Damn it wilmer

Is it semi-random distribution

Fuick I forgot the word

[timid otter]

True random doesnt exist

It is a lie.

[terse idol]

Yeah

[white minnow]

like fire emblem stuff where the listed crit chance is not what it actually is?

[thorn lark]

surge?

[timid otter]

You must find how random is calculated in their little scripts and figure out the right orientaiton to trick the game into giving you free grenades.

[thin socket]

you know it

[timid otter]

that is the only way

[terse idol]

And theoretically it would be very less likely to notget the outcome at least once in any given instance

[thorn lark]

blazing spirit!

[white minnow]

oh rng manipulation

[terse idol]

Competitive urge RNG-

[timid otter]

Ive calculated that if i throw a grenade at precisely this milisecond i have a 100% chance of getting a twin blasts to proc.

🤓

[tall torrent]

Also
Further digging
+melee power blessings (ex: headtaker, executor) only apply to melee attacks
+power blessings (ex: slaughterer) apply to all non-blitz attacks
+ranged power blessings (ex: deathspitter, pinning fire, full bore) apply to ranged attacks & DOT

[thorn lark]

people are still taking swift certainty thinking it works with dodge talents...

[thin socket]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-emoji-nerd-meme-radar-gif-26497624

[timid otter]

Swift certainty is veri good.

10% movement speed during sprinting

[thorn lark]

strange because slaughterer works with sb stacks on psyker AFAIK

[thin socket]

Swift's goated

Movement speed is always good in any game, I stand by this

[thorn lark]

also, skullcrusher works with dots

[timid otter]

and the weird object permanence it gives them.

[last parcel]

yaassss swifties rise up

[thin socket]

Silence wench

[timid otter]

Zealots being able to simply stop looking at enemies and they stop existing, firing at them.

[thin socket]

I am so tired of her new song playing in my yt shorts

[timid otter]

[tame lodge]

Fortnite

[thin socket]

[thorn lark]

you could also slide, dash, reposition yourself... it's just a meme

[timid otter]

How about no

No but seriously that tech is actually usefull at times.

[thin socket]

And still get hit in a different mission all together by a melee enemy nowhere near you

because video game funny

[tame lodge]

Otherwise you could just slide the entire mission and be untouchable

However the slides would be adjusted around that

[thorn lark]

swift certainty must be something taken by non main zealot playing the class then

[tulip condor]

Never seen auric with no high int shock

[tame lodge]

Such as cool downs or you know, not dodging melee

[thorn lark]

such is life, also, toughness stacking and be more awere of your surroundings

[thin socket]

I can't aware ping

[thorn lark]

yeah, that sucks, i agree

[last parcel]

is that like a ping that transforms when there's a full moon

[white minnow]

moreso that you can get sprint i-frames, but

just that swift certainty lets you do it at zero stamina so it's whatevs

since you basically always have stamina during ranged engagements

[thin socket]

Hmmm

10% toughness or 24% block efficiency

[timid otter]

Toughness

[thin socket]

[thorn lark]

i live in a tiny island, i have fiber... but so my netflix watching neighborhood... it's horrible from 7.30pm to 9.30 pm

[timid otter]

Block efficiency bad

[thin socket]

ur bad

[thorn lark]

sprint efficiency!

(toughness)

[timid otter]

Do you have proof?

[thin socket]

I have 2

[thin socket]

ur mum said so

[thorn lark]

you're a good man

[thin socket]

would she lie

[timid otter]

I fear i must accept that then

[thorn lark]

(your dad said so)

[grand perch]

the people you meet in early morning quickplay.

bolter zealot on enclavum baross. hipfiring just about everything. is nearing orange ammo before we cleared the first street

finds ammo kit, deploys it immediately despite no one else needing ammo yet. gets ammo, fires 9 shots, double dips ammo kit, then runs over to nearest chest, fires a single round, takes that ammo pack as well

keeps hoovering up about every single kit, still runs out of ammo, goes into melee and dies repeatedly within seconds

can i get a commissar over here?

[thorn lark]

auric?

[grand perch]

auric damnation

[thorn lark]

you should have let him dead on the floor

[tall torrent]

Slaughterer is +power, not +melee power
Skullcrusher is +DMG received (a different modifier similar to veteran’s focus target)

[thorn lark]

yeah reread your comment after mine

[tall torrent]

Mb, wifi went out for a bit

[thorn lark]

i did not see at first the difference between +power and +melee power

Skullcrusher is +DMG received (a different modifier similar to veteran’s focus target) > does ff works like sc with dots?

[grand perch]

I did but teammates didn't

[tall torrent]

From what I’m getting at:

+dmg (applies to everything)

+melee dmg (only melee atks)

+ranged dmg (only ranged atks)

+close dmg (8m start decay, 30m end, applies to ranged atks & DOT)

+power (applies to everything except blitz)

+melee power (only melee atks)

+ranged power (ranged atks & DOT)

Only unique situation with +close dmg is Veteran’s CQKZ which works for melee & blitz on top of ranged & DOT

I’m assuming that CQKZ is a self status buff rather than a combination of different types of dmg buff

[tall torrent]

Fire frenzy?

Or you mean focus target

Focus target buffs any & all dmg received by the marked enemy

Skullcrusher causes the debuffed enemy to receive +10% dmg per stack (max 8 stacks) when staggered

[thorn lark]

fire frenzy

does it work on dots?

[tall torrent]

I think so

[thorn lark]

so it's close dmg and not ranged dmg then

[tall torrent]

Because I had a braced autogun with fire frenzy IV and deathspitter IV

And it buffed bleed 6 stack dmg on scab gunner (with +25% flak) from 60 to 74

Not sure how the math went there but

It did go higher

I checked deathspitter IV on its own as well and it’s also increased very slightly

[thorn lark]

that makes me want to do a brauto grenadier vet

[tall torrent]

The thing is

Neither fire frenzy nor deathspitter can gain stacks from dot kills

[thorn lark]

throw the nades at your feet, and start spraying 😄

[tall torrent]

Actually lemme check deathspitter again

It might be pure +power instead of +ranged power

Yea deathspitter and pinning fire are both +power

They apply to melee atks

Not that it matters that much

@thorn lark fire frenzy also applies to melee attacks

[thorn lark]

oO

wtf

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/spaghetti-alfredo-pasta-hot-from-the-pan-mouth-watering-gif-14615457

[tall torrent]

Update on this stuff:

+power applies to all non-blitz attacks

+ranged power applies to ranged attacks only

Most ranged weapons’ +power blessings are in fact +power

Only Trickshooter seems to be +ranged power

Also, +close DMG stuff seems to be coded the same way as CQKZ

You just do more dmg to all enemies within certain distance regardless of melee/ranged/DOT

The only weird case is that

CQKZ and dum dum both affect blitz dmg (prob coded same way as Anoint in Blood)

Fire frenzy does not affect blitz dmg

The only blessing that buffs blitz dmg is dum dum

[thorn lark]

By blitz DMG you mean like the initial DMG of the frag or the Krak?

[tall torrent]

Explosive dmg basically

Am checking melee blessings rn

Executor is +power (not limited to melee)

[thorn lark]

So hmm you can really milk those frags with an iag + dumdum + ds/FF + cqkz...

[tall torrent]

Executor also gains stacks per weakspot hit (can gain multiple stacks in 1 hit)

[thorn lark]

With cleave I presume

[tall torrent]

Might not be a horrible idea to run Mk6 knife with executor if just not interested with serrated blade or dodge reliant blessings

[thorn lark]

This why it's better on Mk6 right?

[tall torrent]

The main issue is that it drops all stacks on non-weakspot hit

If a melee atk hits at least 1 enemy on weakspot, it’s good

If a melee atk doesn’t hit weakspot at all, it drops all stacks

[tall torrent]

My hot take is that mk6 knife is just better than mk3 knife in most situations now

At least on veteran

Zealot breakpoints I’m not too sure about

But on veteran, mk6 can hit the exact same breakpoints because serrated + mercy

[thorn lark]

You would go serrated + mercy + riposte?

[tall torrent]

Serrated blade (talent)
Uncanny + mercy

Seems to be the most consistent breakpoint-wise for veteran

[tall torrent]

All or Nothing is also +power

[thorn lark]

limbsplitter?

[tall torrent]

In terms of “+power” & some “+type dmg” blessings:

All or Nothing: +power
Decimator: +melee power
Executor: +power
Headtaker: +melee power
Rampage: +melee power
Slaughterer: +power
Thrust: +melee power

Blaze away: +power
Deathspitter: +power
Dum dum: +close DMG (blitz included)
Fire frenzy: +close DMG
Full bore: +power
No respite: +ranged DMG, +melee DMG & DOT
Opening salvo: +ranged power
Pinning fire: +power
Powderburn: +ranged DMG
Raking fire: +ranged DMG
Run n gun: +close ranged DMG
Sustained fire: +ranged DMG
Trickshooter: +ranged power

Talent:
CQKZ: +close DMG (blitz included)

[tall torrent]

+melee power

[thorn lark]

hu lol

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/playing-the-morin-khuur-the-hu-coachella-playing-music-heavy-metal-band-gif-25482173

[stuck geode]

has anyone made the effort to count the penance points that are obtainable?

[trim hemlock]

darn.

too bad about the crucian

BUT

I have a sidegrade now

[frank ether]

maybe one day crucian will not suck

one can hope and cope

[last parcel]

it’s something near 4800

[frank ether]

on a separate note fatshark give this thing a tiny bit of pen pretty please

[last parcel]

pineapple

[frank ether]

pineapple diet

[stuck geode]

good, theres deffenitely some room for skipping some of them. Im not sure i will ever kill 2500 enemies with barrels...

[agile forge]

By "little bit of pen", I presume you mean "summon a friendly ogryn every single time you ADS, activate ES or get a decent stack of MF going"

fuck me it's enough to make me want to retire my CIAG

Btw I made my CIAG build less memey, but I'm still not sure of what to do about my MF choices

[stuck geode]

May i ask what makes the CIAG better then the rest?

or the other autoguns

[agile forge]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9bfa25f3-6485-4513-b1ad-4fe4aeaad63e

I think it's mostly because it has a longer crit string and better crit and weakspot multipliers

[stuck geode]

ah okay

[agile forge]

but yeah, my build before was like that but with deadshot instead of demo team

but obviously deadshot is frivolous as fuck and grenade regen is basically 100% necessary

[stuck geode]

only got on it recently and it does feel really strong. Just wish the iron sight wasnt as aggressively bulky

[agile forge]

I'm currently doubting between long range assassin and camouflage, and wishing I could get marksman too

[white minnow]

CIAG basically has better damage up close but worse damage farther away than the other two IAGs

and better mobility

it fulfills the "close-range smg" archetype, which turns out to be good in this game because that's where most meaningful engagements happen

[agile forge]

It's also still powerful enough at long range

[stuck geode]

is plasma still popular?

[white minnow]

not that the other IAGs are that far behind and they're just a very good weapon family

[agile forge]

Plasma is still a contender for best gun in the game

it's got a similar niche to zarona, but more flexible

[stuck geode]

hard to stay up to date, after a few months of a break x)

[agile forge]

The main recent balance change is that survivalist aura got gutted

it's still one of the better auras, but it doesn't totally solve ammo economy

[thorn lark]

4835 iirc

[agile forge]

which is a nerf to the less efficient guns that were being carried by it

gun lugger ogryns got shafted worst tbh

CIAG has amazing pickup from ammo boxes so it copes ok

Any veteran laser weapon has been relatively boosted if it was already good on ammo economy due to shock trooper (that is to say, any laser that isn't a recon)

[grizzled pebble]

Fast fire rate. Good damage/modifier. Low/moderate recoil. Very good blessing (dumdum).

Forgiving weapon stats too.

The scaling of damage and ammo stats are such that it's okay to use 60 something.

So it's easy to build and not have to wreck your souls for high 70s stats.

[agile forge]

btw I know I'm a broken record but it's well worth trying CIAG in a full on marksman build rather than the usual VoC stuff

It turns from being an efficient decent dps stick to an extermination engine.

[frank ether]

between that and hitreg I don't play ES builds anymore

[agile forge]

I check what I'm dealing with on the mission start screen

but that doesn't matter because every stupid selfish fucker leaves the moment they get downed these days

so you can't be sure that the team you see at the start will last for more than 30s after first engagement

[stuck geode]

is the revolver good on vet, I took it with zealot a lot but its more of a side piece for picking specials. Though a vet gunslinger build sound kinda fun in my head

[vivid silo]

So much this. There are so few clutch moments available because new people just join to replace the downed (not even dead) ones 😦

[agile forge]

Try it with weapon specialist

[vivid silo]

I don't mind people dying or being bad, but at least give me my fun moments!

[agile forge]

The left modifier that makes it reload your gun works amazingly on it

Because it rounds up

You can kill QQ kill to reload the gun one by one without actually reloading it

And the crit boost from swapping is really good since zarona is so crit reliant

[sleek garden]

it's hard for me to play veteran without going down the left tree all the way

I play veteran to remove armies of shooters from the map

[slate hawk]

Is that a derg holding a griffin?

[sleek garden]

Yup

[slate hawk]

Is precious

[sleek garden]

Thank you I drew them myself

[stuck geode]

i dont like it when people leave when downed but please if i get netted dont try clean of every poxwalker in a 20meter radius first

[sleek garden]

Alternatively if you get netted near more than one mauler or crusher I'm leaving you for later

The likelihood of me accidentally getting us both hit with the power overhead is too great

[stuck geode]

i'd say it depends how crowded it is

[sleek garden]

Of course it all depends on the situation

Yeah

That's why every team needs an ogryn so he can just knock down a crowd for your team

[rare turret]

thought i was gonna get good luck with brunts today

[sleek garden]

often just running over and pushing works fine though

[rare turret]

the big sad

[stuck geode]

but from my recent endevour to get the auric maelstron survior title i think individual skill tends to not matter much more compared to normal damnation. As soon as I made a support build and just coordinated myself around the rest of my team, it was almost easy.

[sleek garden]

The only thing I'd really want to change in that gun is infernus

That gun always gets me in trouble when it's reload time

[rare turret]

i think the perks are garbed, weak spot damage is absolute coal

[sleek garden]

I like looking at what my teammates are using before a game so I can choose my loadout

[agile forge]

Don't go revolver then lol

Or be prepared to try a different niche

[sleek garden]

I use the Graia or Kantrael infantry

[agile forge]

I have all kinds of builds

[sleek garden]

I used to play veteran with Deadshot a long time ago with the revolver

[stuck geode]

yeah thats probably the smart way to do it. I just went with a zealot build where i could spam the chant all the time and that was basically a free ticket. I guess its easier that way since everyone is allready so focused on going ham on killing stuff.

[rare turret]

i suppose its ok

[sleek garden]

Looks good

[agile forge]

Reload speed bad but rest good

[slate hawk]

Adorable art style

[agile forge]

Might miss some BPs

[rare turret]

ill take reload speed over crit damage of the same level

im probably gonna stick with bolter for now lol

[agile forge]

Truth

[sleek garden]

Trying new things keeps the game fresh

I suck at infiltrator veteran lol

And I struggle with the thunder hammer on zealot

Roles where you're supposed to be constantly chopping up people in close range are tough for me

Except on ogryn obviously

I like using the power maul to knock everyone over

[slate hawk]

Shovel gives the good bonk

[pallid dew]

I could swap out Infernus for Weight of Fire

[agile forge]

Folding shovels feel fucking amazing

The 5 and the 7

[agile forge]

I subjectively enjoy the 7 so much more than the pee sword

[agile forge]

Oh damn

[pallid dew]

God Emperor has blessed me

[agile forge]

If you don't have a rashad already I think that could be your endgame combat axe

Just swap the blessings

[pallid dew]

Don't have Rashad

What blessing?

[agile forge]

Yeah, I'm in the same boat

Headtaker Bromentum 100%

[pallid dew]

Damn I'll see if i can scavenge for that

[agile forge]

Bromentum rank not important btw

[pallid dew]

So am I getting this axe? Or wait the next day lolol

[agile forge]

If you only have rank 1 it's still good

Get it imo

[pallid dew]

Mad

[agile forge]

Rashad is only a little better

But even harder to build

[pallid dew]

What blessing am I swapping out?

Thunderous

or Shred?

[iron marten]

I’d say swap both of your blessings for brutal momentum and headtaker

Both your perks are good

[clever mesa]

What are the specific differences between the Accatran Mk 7A, Mk 6D and Mk 2?

[iron marten]

Rate of Fire and DMG per bullet/laser

[clever mesa]

yeah but like which one for which weapon? the acquisitons page is quite unhelpful

[iron marten]

6d is the fastest and lightest hitting

7a is the middle of the pack

Mk2 is the slowest and hardest hitting

[clever mesa]

thank you

[iron marten]

Though the mk2 - due to how slow it is - makes the dps quite low

[bitter turtle]

no

7 is the slowest

2 is the middle child (and shit)

7 also has enough cleave to sh oot through 1 poxwalker

the others have no cleave whatsoever

[agile forge]

Both

Combat axes are very tight to build

Flak unarmoured bromentum power is the way

Power preferably headtaker

Decimator acceptable

Shred is great but doesn't fit what you want from a combat axe

[bitter turtle]

if you're wondering btw, I would say 7 is probably the least bad one right now

ignore onslaught and just build as much damage on left and middle as you can

if you want to use onslaught, 6d is the best one

but i would say onslaught is a trap

2 is just bad

not that the others are great

they are mediocre at best and subpar at worst in general

[pallid dew]

appreciate it you legend

[agile forge]

I am a parrot.

[iron marten]

oh woops, my bad

me when I spread misinfo on the internet

[agile forge]

Just repeating what smarter players figured out first for the most part

[bitter turtle]

in terms of dps, 6d and 7 bonusless are roughly the same in ammo efficiecny and dps. 7 takes 2 rounds per shot, but also does twice as much damage as the 6d

meanwhile the 6d shoots roughly twice as fast, 1 round per shot, half damage

[pallid dew]

Difference between Rashad and Antax

[bitter turtle]

so the 7 pulls ahead a bit thanks to the cleave assuming you arent running talents that want high RoF (onslaught)

[bitter turtle]

the antax is the bad version of the rashad

basically

you see that cleave targets stat>?

its worthless because you want to run bromentum anyway, which makes cleave targets a meaningless stat

rashad has a finesse stat in place of cleave targets

thus, it does more damage and has ane asier time reaching breakpoints

antax is serviceable if you do what kragogram said, especially since yours looks fairly good statwise

but the weapon itself is just a bad version of rashad

[agile forge]

Antax is only a little bit worse

It is unambiguously worse though

Probably better for low levels since it has a pointless stat bar

[pallid dew]

I see

[agile forge]

Antax is still one of the best melees in the game mind

[pallid dew]

I will hold onto this axe until I get a rashad

[agile forge]

Yeah, that is the way.

[pallid dew]

What's the best melee so far?

[bitter turtle]

there is no straight up best

but

for vet

power sword/mk 6knife/rashad are probably top 3 imo

[pallid dew]

Mad

[agile forge]

Chainsword 4 is up there too

Shovel 7

[bitter turtle]

all 3 have really high killing power against all targets, mk6 knife has pretty meh horde clear but compensates with insane mobility

[agile forge]

Arguably standard shovel

[bitter turtle]

meanwhile rashad and psword are just powerhouses

psword is the absolute most lethal weapon

[agile forge]

BTW specifically sword 6

[bitter turtle]

but it lacks mobility

[agile forge]

Psword 6 I mean

[pallid dew]

I had a bleed knife build for zealot fun build

[bitter turtle]

rashad is very balanced

good against basically everything with decent enough mobility

and

chs4 has a problem of being really bad against armor in a lot of cases

[pallid dew]

I don't like to rely on secondary actions such as the power sword and chainsword imo

[agile forge]

Devil Claw 4 can be great too if you want more antimelee

[bitter turtle]

you really dont wanna rev carapace

even if you have bloodletter

[pallid dew]

I have bad timing and get caught trying to activate the power sword

[bitter turtle]

mk7 shovel is great, but i dont put it in "top" because its boss/unyielding damage is absolutely ATROCIOUS

like its an amazing weapon in most cases but the moment a boss or bulwark shows up you realize how little dmg it does to unyielding

fully charged thrust folded heavy can oneshot carapace but its not even close vs bulwark lel

[agile forge]

Yeah, I like it with a boss killer gun for that reason

[bitter turtle]

yeah

that's why i exclude them

they have their great points