veteran-class

[junior needle]

Does this look like the ttk of a bad weapon?

[bitter turtle]

i dont even think voc itself is overpowered as much as the pathing is really good with few taxes

infiltrate is competitive with it but takes 3 extra points on the tree

[junior needle]

Gun is great, no buffs needed

[bitter turtle]

demo stockpile sitting right on top of voc

also gives it a lot of weight

[somber axle]

no but you had to reload

Recons don't need to reload

[bitter turtle]

being literally probably the strongest standalone talent on the tree

[junior needle]

If I had a bigger mag I wouldn't have to reload

[somber axle]

also I need to redo my tier list now after these revelations that Recon Mk II is fine and Shredder is fine

it's literally just people complaining about weapons that are fine with the right builds

and then being mad that they don't like playing with those builds

LMFAO

[junior needle]

The right build meaning taking much more damage to do the same thing

[somber axle]

just don't get hit 5head

the game is boring to you

[radiant chasm]

see i respect the shredder but

[somber axle]

run Exe Stance

you don't need VoC

[junior needle]

Taking much more damage TALENTS

[radiant chasm]

i'm just gonna run my agri brauto

or my columnus iag

[somber axle]

yeah

that's fine?

[radiant chasm]

or my vraks 3, or vraks7

[somber axle]

just take the damage talents

you don't need the defensive ones

[junior needle]

That's bad design

[somber axle]

join me in glass bones paper skin

play perfectly or die

THE GAME

it makes things so much more intense and fun

[junior needle]

But na, the mk2 is objectively the weakest recon and there's no reason to run it over the 7a

The 7a even has better unyielding modifiers for no reason

[somber axle]

in Risk of Rain 2 you can build nothing but gasoline and ignition tank so that any enemy killed explodes and that explosion is mapwide and causes any other enemy hit to explode and you see why this is a silly build

but you can also build nothing but fireworks that launch a barrage homing rockets per stack and a grab soda machine to spam fireworks in a never ending stream that launch into the atmosphere with perfect tracking on enemies everywhere to instagib

the first build lets you build around it and makes you a threat that isn't tied to one location
the second build forces you to hug interacterable objects in the world or in this case a soda machine you call down from orbit to drink sodas and launch fireworks

both builds are silly in their own ways

neither one existing invalidates the other

[junior needle]

This isn't risk of rain 2, which has theoretically unlimited pickups

And easily trivializes any difficulty with enough of them

[somber axle]

this is correct though and even though personally I think the Mk II feels better to shoot than the VIIa, the VIIa is objectively better performance wise

[somber axle]

yeah but you're either blind or intentionally missing my point

[oblique totem]

If you aren't killing every enemy on the map as soon as you arrive, you're not playing Risk of Rain correctly.

[frank ether]

ror is a fun game but not a particularly balanced one lmao

[somber axle]

the point is that the two builds function in different ways with different strengths/weaknesses and require different playstyles to function

and neither one makes the other invalid

[junior needle]

Some things are simply better than others however

[somber axle]

if you don't like the playstyle of one, it doesn't make the other trash

[junior needle]

And that makes for build competition

[somber axle]

Sure but people chasing meta already know run Power Sword PC4/Plasma with VoC

people chasing fun can run whatever they want tbh

and in whatever difficulty they're comfy with

[junior needle]

Even if you can do something with one build, if another just does it better/easier then there comes little reason to use the "weaker" one unless you're just fucking around

[somber axle]

I think you forget that people play games to have fun

and if one build is fun

they play it regardless of whether or not another is better

I mained Hunter on WoW and was never competing for top DPS in my raid guilds and it was never about that

it was about having fun playing a game

[junior needle]

People generally find using substantially weaker things to not be fun if they're playing seriously

On the level of game design

Things should be on a relatively even playing field all things considered

[somber axle]

yeah? and I thought Shredder was substatially weaker than every gun in the game until it was shown here that they can also still obliterate things with the right build

LMFAO

nothing here is weak

just needs the right build to make it strong

[junior needle]

It's almost like

[bitter turtle]

fwiw

https://i.gyazo.com/19e2b2856bafd6a058fdfa2905a0bbca.jpg

[junior needle]

Psyk warrior showcases are not practical

[bitter turtle]

mk2 recon dps on the same target/setup as the 7 and 6d earlier

its not

THAT much worse

but it is worse

and im not really sure what it does better?

[somber axle]

they're really our only way of showing bite-sized easy to capture clips tbh

[bitter turtle]

they really arent good measure

imo

if you really wanna prove its good

just go play with ppl here

and show them directly

[somber axle]

if I have to make a youtube account just to link 30-40 minute vids for people to critique I'll honestly just stop caring about trying to show everyone that the gun works and just go back to linking the gif

[junior needle]

They're really our only way of clickbaiting people into thinking things are better than they are

[bitter turtle]

that you can keep up in dmg and also not huff ammo

you dont even need to record

for me that is why i think the 7 is probably ok

cause of someone i played with here that i was debating

[junior needle]

I think the lesson to be learned here is that

[somber axle]

I am a quickplay creature and tbh I have the most fun fighting with friends

I mean no offense to anyone here

but like

we're not friends

[junior needle]

Even if a gun is dogshit, you can still impractically juice it into at least looking impressive

[bitter turtle]

but yeah, mk2 suffers from middle child syndrome ig

its not so much worse than the other two but i also dont know why you would pick it

[somber axle]

I downloaded scoreboard exclusively to show my performance and tbh I do not want to add a bunch of people here because I am sneaky

and prefer remaining as the clown loudly breakdancing through Nurgle's home

if you meet me in quickplay I will dance for you

but also I am kinda comfy with who I play with currently so otherwise it's probably better to just take my words or do not and then we both play our games

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-monkey-style-monkey-tango-monkey-best-dancer-the-dancing-monkey-gif-19480759

[junior needle]

The real goat is the talent tree

Which lets you juice dogshit weapons enough

[somber axle]

Talent tree truly saved this game

[junior needle]

Even if you have to pay a price for it

Unfortunately the devs have forgotten how to balance weapons correctly because of it

[bitter turtle]

tbf

did they ever

pinning fire +100% dmg

🤔

[junior needle]

I mean, it did make the autopistol a good weapon when it was like that

It's better than not having it and it being shit

but having mandatory blessing/talent taxes for some weapons is bad design (brutal)

[somber axle]

idk I think players will naturally develop a meta for weapons regardless and make certain blessings must haves no matter how well designed the weapons are

I'm not saying the weapons are well designed

just that you'll never get away from players chasing even 1% better

[bitter turtle]

On some level sure

But I don't think you can blame that

On stuff like

Point blank existing

Gee would I like 30 percent crit for aiming less than a second

[somber axle]

you can't blame that for how Darktide is designed

just that it would be inevitable even if this wasn't how Darktide was designed

[bitter turtle]

Or do I want 20 percent crit after using pistol whip that does like 5 damage to land a kill

[somber axle]

don't ogryns meme about their funny slap and just

slapping a trapper in a corner to death

also I want to reiterate that I do not mean offense to anyone

it's not that I do not know you and do not wish to know any of you, just that I personally do not wish to be known

but anyway yeah

even the most useless, silly stuff will get meme'd by someone, somewhere out there

like trickshooter/crucian is generally thought of to be a bad combo

and then Azrael showed a funny vid using those blessings together on an Agrip Quickdraw Revolver to instagib Plogryn, Burgle and Chaos Spawn

is it practical for the average player? no

is it funny? ABSOLUTELY

[fresh saddle]

hrmn.. not super happy with what hadron did.. recommendations?

[junior needle]

How could you not want to know such pleasant internet strangers like us?

[somber axle]

because I like to hide behind my clown make up LMFAO

[junior needle]

We definitely don't want to harvest your organs, that would be very unfriendly

[somber axle]

meeting new people is terrifying

[last parcel]

yes

[tame lodge]

Is that RussianBadger

[last parcel]

we are friendly

very nice people

[junior needle]

My real name is Trusty Patches

[oblique totem]

Ehhhh

[junior needle]

With a name like that, how could you not trust me

[last parcel]

exactly

we're all sane here

am sanest person i know

[oblique totem]

Ehhhhh

[junior needle]

I'm very sane, the sanest of all my multiple personalities

[oblique totem]

Closer to the truth

[bitter turtle]

Hit and run is good

Change punishing to dumdum

Change sprint to flak or maniac

Live with unarmored

Not the worst perk at least

[lucid ginkgo]

What a good looking cat, it'll be a shame, if someone put it as pfp

[fresh saddle]

kk!

[vernal harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-nodding-head-kid-rocking-rocking-back-and-forth-gif-21537245

[oblique totem]

How might a struggling vet main find other vet mains and kill heretics in harmony with them?

[gray finch]

they often dont exist

[oblique totem]

Rip

[smoky jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-david-cross-tobias-funke-there-are-dozens-of-us-dozens-gif-5426075

Ah. RIP me.

Well, veteran main here. fwiw

[vernal harbor]

You queue and it’s pretty good chance to get 2-3 other vets

[oblique totem]

Random games don't tend to go well

Pretty sure half the players I match with are bots

[vernal harbor]

Auric damnation is easier than regular heresy

[oblique totem]

It... Is?

[last parcel]

this guy in my match is wasted as fuck

[vernal harbor]

Auric damnation are where the people are who want to try

[oblique totem]

Was this in an auric damnation game?

[gray finch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/836221557398306861/1202299713219461160/makesweet-i4wynb.gif

[oblique totem]

I just want to shoot heretics.

[vernal harbor]

christ

[last parcel]

yes we are like christ

[oblique totem]

Betrayed by those closest to us and hated by the government?

[tame lodge]

Uh sure

[fresh saddle]

kk i fixed it up thanks for the tip!

[junior needle]

Hit and run is ok

Your second blessing choice is largely preference, none of them are terribly impactful outside of dumdum

[trim steppe]

Sweet, I just got the penance for no one getting downed in Auric Damnation, in a quickplay with a bunch of randos

Way to pull it together guys

[oblique totem]

I wish my auric runs were like that

Last one the mission started, the team split up immediately and got downed. Two people quit and were replaced by two others who quit and we got wiped again.

[iron marten]

sounds like a shitstorm, lol

[oblique totem]

I refuse to quit games so instead spent a significant chunk of that round handcuffed next to a chaos idol.

Person quits, replaced by a bot. New player joins, makes an attempt but there's like 10 snipers so they go down.

[leaden hollow]

Look at this cat picture, not quite sure why I'm putting this here, but the impulse has won.

[elder fiber]

Servals own

[oblique totem]

Well it makes me feel better

So, good job.

[faint beacon]

I see this cant and I can't unseen it giving into the voices and jumping into a mirror off one of those massive cat walking wheels

[somber axle]

Were I a clown less afraid of being seen I'd join others for games but I guess there's the lfg channels

https://tenor.com/view/the-amazing-digital-circus-pomni-shaking-shivering-trembling-gif-1815100900790237791

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-living-in-your-walls-gif-23222150

[oblique totem]

Join me Pomni. For adventures!

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/snake-walls-crongulate-trolled-gif-26407062

[oblique totem]

You- Did you just respond to your own gif?

You can't do that

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/tadc-the-amazing-digital-circus-digital-circus-pomni-well-okay-gif-10305131393694869771

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-prequel-this-isnt-how-its-supposed-to-be-gif-15831832

[oblique totem]

A second reaction!

[somber axle]

https://tenor.com/view/pomni-the-amazing-digital-circus-blank-stare-stare-soulless-gif-18142110126379874102

I'm grinding Psyker penances right now

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/200000-units-are-ready-million-more-well-on-the-way-gif-15836182220374518965

[oblique totem]

Sounds like a pskyer

Good job being immersive

[last parcel]

immersion is the cherry on top

that's why i love random zealots who scream "FOR HIM ON TERRA" in vc at 3 am

[oblique totem]

Do you though?

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/love-coffee-good-morning-flower-gif-18425660656452680534

[oblique totem]

Oh shit, it is morning.

When did that happen?

[last parcel]

when it stopped being a knight

[oblique totem]

4/10

You should have said when it moved between two knights.

Past midnight.

[last parcel]

night night

[oblique totem]

Wait, I'm not going to sleep yet

[vapid surge]

this is nice.

[somber axle]

that's a really good Kantrael

the only things I'd change would be removing the infested perk and swapping fire frenzy to full bore but fire frenzy is still good honestly

[vague smelt]

Cool

100 Auric games done

Now I can flex my NoShower badge

[hollow turtle]

When you get tired of waiting for FS to give Tanith First and Only.

[vague smelt]

They will never add it

If they have these cosmetics in the files but they're not adding it it's for a reason

[blissful flame]

melk is offering me a decent chainaxe, looks like. Dunno if i want one though

[vague smelt]

You'd need to change both blessings

[blissful flame]

shows what i know about what good blessings are then. i thought those were good lol

[vague smelt]

No they're not

[last parcel]

that specific combo can be used in a meme build

don't know the specifics

[blissful flame]

i assume both are bad because the ideal goal is for the thing to already be dead then

[vague smelt]

Go get Slaught IV and Headtaker IV

But I am not sure about flak

[iron silo]

you know I bought this just to snag PC4 but actually......

[vague smelt]

Blergh

[agile forge]

It's a III

You want the VI anyway, rip that fucker

[bitter turtle]

The meme build is

You Rev and dodge out of the first tick of damagea

Applies full bleed stacks on the first hit

Most lighter elites and specials die from the bleed

And you don't need to commit a full rev

It's a meme though

I'd grab it either way though

It's a good chaxe

And the perks are good

So even if you don't want meme build you can just change them

You never know if chaxes will see a change and you like them anyway

[bitter turtle]

I'd keep that until you're ready to make a good 6

3 is really quite good in a vacuum anyway

6 is just better

But you can easily turn that into a bromentum swordsince cleave targets doesn't matter

[agile forge]

Yeah, the 3 is still a Good melee weapon

It just lacks a bit of versatility

Basically a good roll on the 6 is borderline overpowered

[bitter turtle]

i wouldnt say it lacks versatiltiy

actually it can hit the same bps as 6 with the exception of the crusher 2 shot

needs 3 hits

that and the diagonal lights are the main difference

the ewapons are honestly a lot closer than people act like

[stable socket]

do you have to block cancel the activation on the 6?

[agile forge]

That's the versatility I meant though

Also the mutant killtime

[agile forge]

You don't have to but you should

[stable socket]

makes sense! for now i'm sticking to a mk3 because i wanna press less buttons

[bitter turtle]

they can both oneshot mutants

[agile forge]

Ooh

[frank gyro]

best plasma gun blessings?

[bitter turtle]

blaze away/gets hot

[north pebble]

blaze away + gets hot

[bitter turtle]

gloryhunter is decent too

[north pebble]

power cycler is out of the question. what should i change for the other?

[frank gyro]

any autogun that is really fun and strong? i never tried them, thanks for the reply btw

[bitter turtle]

wdym out of the question

[bitter turtle]

Vraks 7 is extremely fun as a sniper rifle

[north pebble]

it already demands one slot

[bitter turtle]

as in

you're already replacing one?

you mean

idk what you mean by that

[sturdy schooner]

dont have mk 4 handcannon yet, what should I replace?

[frank gyro]

thanks, ill try that out

[bitter turtle]

unarmored to

maniac I guess

ideal is maniac + elite

[bitter turtle]

the gun is a pretty strict build

if oyu do end up wanting to make one

unarmored/flak perks
surgical/deadly accurate blessings

[north pebble]

the power sword is freshly rolled, im assuming Power cycler is a needed blessing so im replacing the t3 slaughterer. Im looking for any suggestions for the 2nd blessing/perk i should replace

[bitter turtle]

you should build it so that it can oneshot gunners without a crit

[bitter turtle]

ok i getcha

[sturdy schooner]

i heard power sword mk4 is really good with brutal momentum

[bitter turtle]

sorry just "out of the question" made it sound like you dont have cycler

[sturdy schooner]

i have it on mine and its really nice

[bitter turtle]

anyway replace flak

flak is pretty meh

but

[north pebble]

oh yeah my bad

[bitter turtle]

you could also

replace both blessings

neither are on optimal pswords

bromentum m ight be more significant than replacing a perk

or sunder

[north pebble]

nice, i have t4 brutal momentum and sunder. only cycler 4 remains elusive. let me test it out, i was hoping for a 25% maniac though

[bitter turtle]

basically

this is how the perks work

unyielding -> boss damage and the bulwark 2tap (may not be possible anymore with the buff to bulwarks)

manaic -> mutant oneshot

carapace -> easier crusher 2tap

anything else is not really that meaningful

as for blessings

bromentum lets you mince lesser horde enemies extremely efficiently

sunder lets you cleave through multiple elites better

[north pebble]

i see

[bitter turtle]

so i was saying

bromentum might help more since the missing perks just hurt your ability to oneshot mutants

carapce isnt necessary if you take extra ogryn damage and melee damage on the tree anyway

though it is more points to be able to 2 tap

meanwhile losing bromentum or sunder hurts your regular/mixed horde smacking

[north pebble]

so i should prioritize horde sweeping for this? i usually pair this with an agri brauto with deadshot so elites are not much of an issue

[bitter turtle]

I mean you can take sunder if you want to cleave through elites better

The sword does everything offensively though

[frank ether]

its a psword does it matter rly

[bitter turtle]

The main weakness of psword is that the mobility sucks without weapon specialist

Pure attacking power wise it probably is the strongest melee weapon for vet

It does really high dmg into just about everything

[rare turret]

how do we rate this tac ax

[north pebble]

awesome, thanks for your insight!

[rare turret]

feels good but idk if there were better blessings to get than decimator

[bitter turtle]

Np

[bitter turtle]

Looks pretty bad ngl

I hate to say it

[gritty fable]

imo better take combat axe with those blessings

[bitter turtle]

Headtaker is much better than decimator

So try swapping that I guess

Specialist damage is pretty bad

I'm not sure if tacaxes can reliably activate bromentum

[gritty fable]

I don't really understand the purpose of tactical axes in the game at all, when combat axes are superior to them in everything

[bitter turtle]

I think they have a niche on zealot

But on vet they are pretty much just bad knives

[gritty fable]

haven't thought about using them on zealot, what build are they used for?

[bitter turtle]

Blazing piety

Spam that chastise

It's not like it's unique to it

But it does it fairly well

Spam lights with mk4

Put shred on ut

Every hit is basically gonna crit because it has crit bonus as a stat for built in crit

[gritty fable]

hm, thanks gonna try it that way

[hearty panther]

i dont think ive ever done that with any success

[bitter turtle]

Really?

I avrually do taxe4 only in auric maelstrom regularly

Don't even pull out gun lel

You can pretty much chastise nonstop

[hearty panther]

for both chars it ends up being ht+dc

zealot is momentum as always

[bitter turtle]

Ifnyou use momentum taxe will probably be bad

[hearty panther]

zealot hits some higher BPs cause of sustained but thays about it

Nah BM does work

[bitter turtle]

But then you're just playing bad combat axe no

[hearty panther]

But imo its not worth the trade off cause it isnt that reliable to proc

its not a caxe tho

may as well call caxe a slower taxe

[bitter turtle]

Idk

I think Blazing piety taxe is actually kinda legit

Rather than trying to imitate something else but doing it less reliably

Taxe 4 has an easier time cleaving than knife with light spam

[hearty panther]

taxe is a finesse weapon that suffers from having no finesse blessings

[bitter turtle]

Shred :^)

[hearty panther]

but you can put two power blessings on it and boost finesse in your trees

and the output is respectable

special attack stuns everything, no exaggeration

[bitter turtle]

Yeah the special is useful sometimes

Though I don't use it too much on bp builds

You really just chastise the moment something remotely threatens you

It's more blazing piety is broken and less taxe 4 but it enables it pretty well

[little path]

is the knife an actually good weapon (for vet or zealot) or is it just a meme people like to use?

I know bleed knife is considered bad but I never really used the knife

[bitter turtle]

Knife is a top melee weapon imo

Just has a bad rep from people using it somewhat poorly

[gritty fable]

bleed knife with crit build on zealot pretty strong

[bitter turtle]

ive changed opinions on flesh tearer for vet

i think its ok

but dont use lacerate pls

[little path]

how does it compare to chord or pord

[bitter turtle]

chainsword and psword both go better into hordes ofc

but mk6 knife remedies the horde weakness fairly well

chainsword has a lo of problems on its own anyway

especially for vet

you need to take bloodletter to actually make the rev useful for vet and that damages its horde clear

zealot doesnt have that problem at least

knife's mobility lets you clutch games though

[hearty panther]

knife has a lot of qualities that a good player can leverage and a bad player can only flail around with

[bitter turtle]

and its damage profile matches up favorably against everything in teh game

in terms of armor types

so you just need to play well

[hearty panther]

like the heavy/push attack can one tap headshot a lot of enemies once you spec out correctly

[bitter turtle]

because the biggest benefit is mobility

[hearty panther]

heck so can heavy 2 > light 3 repeating

[bitter turtle]

if you dont play around its mobility just use psword or something

[hearty panther]

but if you suck at prioritizing targets and cant land those headshots

then youre wasting your time

[little path]

so like

more effort for similar output

[bleak jungle]

Knife has a high skill ceiling thats more or less it if you suck with it it's very easy to tell

[bitter turtle]

no

not similar

imo

knife is really strong just because you can leverage the ombility to slavage situations no other weapon can

like take psword

yes its very strong offensively

but if you've ever gotten bogged down in a bad situation you know it honestly can be helpless in some scenarios

knife also lets you make really fast picks that other weapons cant

just because you can play very risky with how mobile you are

psword is largely just gonna stay near the team

and if you're talking about ttk, something like heavy -> push attack x2 deletes a crusher just as fast as psword does it

[tall torrent]

Not exactly, it’s higher potential in everything except stagger reliability & horde clear speed

Anti-armor is better
Boss dmg is better
Survivability is better

You run so fast bullets cannot catch u

[little path]

I'll try building a knife I guess

which one

[tall torrent]

But it’s very different from most other melee

[little path]

3 or 6

[tall torrent]

I (and a lot of people I know) prefer mk6

[little path]

blessings?

[tall torrent]

Uncanny strike (mandatory)
Mercy killer (my preference atm)

Grab serrated blade from talent tree

[bleak jungle]

My go to on zealot

[bitter turtle]

you can try

mercy killer, riposte, precog, flesh tearer

they should all be ok'

uncanny is mandatory though

[little path]

oh that's why knife has better armor

stack a shit load of rending

is first target the drop stat or mobility

[bleak jungle]

Gotta be good at landing weakpoint hits to make it really good though

mobility imo

[little path]

wait does

[bitter turtle]

no

first target is more influential on your damage than the actual damage stat lol

[little path]

first target only affect the damage if you hit MULTIPLE targets

[bitter turtle]

no

[little path]

or does it affect damage even if you hit only one

[bitter turtle]

ignore the description

the way its worded is wrong

[little path]

wacky

well I have no plasteel because I spent it all on a making a shotgun

so rip

[bitter turtle]

well

knife is more a brunt battle

than a hadron one

imo

its really not tha tsrict on perks

and blessings are fairly flexible besides demanding uncanny strikes

but brunt rolls are annoying

4 damage stats so all need to be high

and mobility obv needs to be above 50

losing a dodge on knife is especially terrible

[bleak jungle]

Can knife get 6? even at 42% i can still dodge 5 times

[bitter turtle]

it says 4 is possible

but idk

i never actually had a low mobility knife to check

i guess you can sac it completely in that case? if that's true

make sit a bit easier

[bleak jungle]

Heres what my knife gets at 42%

[bitter turtle]

huh

just went and rolled at brunt to get a low mobility one

https://i.gyazo.com/36d3a69311b35139244b51963d747745.png

gues sit doesnt matter then

[tall torrent]

It’s max 5 dodge rn

[bleak jungle]

What i thought

[tall torrent]

Unless they decide to open up to 100% stats

[candid agate]

i need just one more mission to complete a contract

and darktide sends all the speds in the world my way

[junior needle]

mercy killer
zealot

[bleak jungle]

It do be killing just like the blessing says

[junior needle]

The average value drops significantly, even on a piety setup

It's not active until the strike after you start bleeding

[bleak jungle]

Still 3 shoots crushers or maulers so idc gets the job done

[junior needle]

If you aren't bleeding them in those strikes it does nothing

[bleak jungle]

scourge is a thing you know? been up too long

[junior needle]

Scourge has variance

As all crit does

It's notably lower value on zealot as serrated blade is the big enabler for consistency on it

Without gimping yourself by taking something like lacerate

[bleak jungle]

Not really never had any problems with my build

Only time it sucks is if i miss the weakpoint but thats a skill issue on my part

[junior needle]

"Subjectively I haven't seen an issue" doesn't necessarily mean it's not something that could be better

[bleak jungle]

ok? im not here for beef so ill just stop talking

[half badge]

this is gonna take so long

😦

[bleak jungle]

Worse penance in the game imo

[junior needle]

Discussing the benefits of loadouts isn't beef

[half badge]

its just everyone kills them an the radius on them is awful

D:

[junior needle]

Subjective perceptions of performance are very unreliable and just because it seems "good enough" doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off doing something else. Recon users come to mind when being very uncaring about objective performance.

[bleak jungle]

My build does just fine tyvm

[junior needle]

Does fine =/= can't do better with a blessing more suited to the class

That's an important distinction

I think your teammates were slacking off a bit that game

[bleak jungle]

Xbox players use to it

Same build compared with more skilled players

[junior needle]

Scoreboards are useful for data gathering on your performance, but are also highly contaminated by subjective factors

If you want to make a comparison

[bleak jungle]

I guess

[junior needle]

It's unfortunately a big fact

[bleak jungle]

Idk damage big means im doing something right

[junior needle]

Even someone with a suboptimal loadout can do the best in the team because skill issue

[bleak jungle]

? wouldnt call that team awful but ok

[junior needle]

Did I say they were awful or bad anywhere in my sentence?

[bleak jungle]

because skill issue

[junior needle]

[bleak jungle]

Im listening

[wanton dawn]

What is it with vet chan and cat fight ?

[bleak jungle]

IDK man im just trying to see this guys point my build works just fine as is

[junior needle]

A skill issue as in a skill gap

My point was stated at the start, mercy killer isn't comparatively a good option for zealot because no guaranteed bleed on any hit

You could do better if you really wanted to, that's it

[bleak jungle]

Called a high crit build works just fine for getting bleed

only need one stack for mercy killer to work

[junior needle]

It's still less consistent on zealot, and mercy killer is only dubiously competitive with riposte and precog on vet

[bleak jungle]

Not really im getting 30%+ crit chance on my zealot that seems just fine

[junior needle]

Again, "seems just fine to me" doesn't mean much. Not a hard concept

[bleak jungle]

ok

but it does work so why does it matter

[junior needle]

There are things that can work better, sometimes people point that out to be helpful

That's all, you don't have to listen

[bleak jungle]

idk man an extra 60% damage goes along way

[green marsh]

The part I'm wondering is what exactly is backing up what Soldier is even saying? All I've gotten so far is " I say so and it is " nothing actually 'objective' about the arguement so far.

[junior needle]

You could've just asked

60% weakspot damage isn't 60% damage btw

[green marsh]

Oh wow... I mean... what could that whole statement possibly be? o.o

[junior needle]

Needlessly passive aggressive

[green marsh]

Other than me asking you know.

[bleak jungle]

Ok so whats the real damage?

[tall torrent]

Weakspot dmg is only applied to the “bonus dmg on weakspot hit compared to base dmg”

[junior needle]

Depends on the weapon, but weakspot and crit damage only apply to the weakspot and crit damage bonus respectively

[bleak jungle]

mhmm so what does that work out to be per say

[green marsh]

Well don't act like you need the obvious explained, if you can't handle sarcasim why is that my problem? XD

[junior needle]

So if you do 100 on a hit, and 110 on a weakspot hit, 10% weakspot damage will give you 1 damage

[tall torrent]

If a weapon does 50 body hit dmg and 100 weakspot dmg, then u add +30% weakspot dmg to it

It’ll be 50 + (100-50)x(1+30%) = 115 dmg

[untold mulch]

Math

[bleak jungle]

hmm still more damage i dont see the problem

[tall torrent]

It really depends on how big the dmg difference is between body hit and weakspot hit

[junior needle]

sarcasim

[tall torrent]

But it’s never as high as what the number says

[untold mulch]

Ehhh, yes and no

[bleak jungle]

I can do 1k crits so whats that work out to too lazy to do the math

[untold mulch]

More damage is useless if you don't get the breakpoint anyways

[tall torrent]

And if that “more dmg” doesn’t meaningfully translate into better breakpoints then it’s just wasted dmg a lot of the time

[junior needle]

There's also the issue of practicality

[untold mulch]

doing 90 damage or doing 99 is the same if the target has 100 hp

[junior needle]

As an extreme example aving a 1% chance to do 100,000 damage to an enemy on a heavy

Isn't going to be a practical blessing

[bleak jungle]

wouldnt say so no whats your point

[untold mulch]

Shoot with recon VId

[junior needle]

[bleak jungle]

im listening 60% is up all the time

[junior needle]

Some things have much more practical application and can result in higher overall value. This is why dumdum is a better option than deathspitter and fire frenzy on every weapon that has them.

[bleak jungle]

If im getting what your saying if i drop mercy killer i can still 3 shot crushers and maulers with the same little build up

[junior needle]

You could, or you could do it with another blessing (precog comes to mind) and still get value on other things that mercy doesn't provide, like horde clear

[stable socket]

I think the main question is this: mercy killer assumes you've already crit an enemy at least once, since critting an enemy is the only way to apply bleed -> does 60% more weakspot damage reduce the number of remaining hits to kill? If so, then it has value, but if not then it doesn't

[bleak jungle]

i run a mk6 horde clear is fine

[stable socket]

easiest way to find out is to run some testing with loadout mod in psykanium, i honestly have no idea cuz i dont run knife

[untold mulch]

Thats why I prefer spam weapons

Only want that number up 🗿 no more build required

[bleak jungle]

valid

[tall torrent]

Mercy is cool on veteran
On zealot I feel u’d have to go piety to get meaningful value out of it

[junior needle]

There's also the difference between "has value" and "has good value compared to alternatives"

[tall torrent]

I think riposte/precog is generally better for zealot, just my opinion

[junior needle]

Agree

[tall torrent]

Precog + duellist is hilarious

Mercy for vet
Riposte/precog for zealot
Riposte/precog for psyker

[bleak jungle]

Idk maybe maybe not my build works just fine and that's all that matters

[stable socket]

as long as you're happy with your build, that's fine! i've run aurics in full grays (just after hitting lv30 on my 4th character, i forgot to swap in the new stuff i rolled) and still pulled my weight - however, oranges will (generally speaking) perform numerically better than grays

[junior needle]

Uh huh

[green marsh]

It is, these guys are just stuck up on themselves XD lots of people on here are.

[junior needle]

Well, some things can work better if you look into them deeper

[bleak jungle]

Nah man it's all about min maxing i guess who cares if it works fine

[green marsh]

It's a single player non-compeitive game but look at the effort they go through to tell you you're wrong then its " Just their opinion "

[untold mulch]

🤦‍♂️

[bleak jungle]

anyways good talk I guess Imma go back to my shows

[stable socket]

It's sorta like having 20% flak on CIAG vs 25% flak - you'll do just fine with either, but 25% flak is numerically better. The real question is whether it's worth the extra plasteel?

[idle swallow]

mercy/uncanny has been pretty nice for my vet, at least while getting the penances done

[junior needle]

"Man my setup works fine on aurics. What do you mean I could do better? Didn't you hear me, it works fine."

[bleak jungle]

bad take now your just trolling

[junior needle]

Oh no, the take is perfectly good

It's not my fault you don't get it

[untold mulch]

Yeah, pretty much. At least the consistency of this chat is This is more optimal for what you want to do, we will inform you, now you do with that info what you will.

Maybe some slight passive aggresivess because text only + it gets tiring sometimes to go in circles in some arguments (Recon discussions being hell on earth)

[bleak jungle]

?

im not trying to get under your skin its not that deep

[hearty panther]

you dont have to, he'll do it himself

[junior needle]

Even if something "works" or subjectively seems fine to someone, it can be comparatively quite subpar and people can do better

[untold mulch]

Didn't play Zealot enough to understand this tree

[junior needle]

Simple concept

[tall torrent]

I just inform, idrc what other people use

[bleak jungle]

Tbf we zealots have one brain cell and i dont have it atm

[green marsh]

In short I'm desperate to use a game to prove I'm better than you.

[bleak jungle]

? what are you even getting at your making no sense

mercy killer and a white weapon are not the same

[junior needle]

....

[untold mulch]

Yep

[junior needle]

Hypotheticals are a simple concept

[bleak jungle]

so what your saying is cause I find mercy killer fine i should use only white weapons

[junior needle]

[bleak jungle]

Im listening

[junior needle]

I've already explained the idea multiple times, if you haven't gotten it already explaining it more won't change anything.

If that's the conclusion you came to from what I told you

There's no bridging the gap of understanding

[bleak jungle]

Your just not making any sense to me. Because I don't want to min max in a way that makes you happy my point doesnt matter

[junior needle]

[green marsh]

That really is about all that guy can say isn't it? Every time I think they're actually going to try and make a point it's just an emote.

[junior needle]

Contribute constructively or kindly remain out of it please

[bleak jungle]

Let me use what remaining brain power i have. Just cause i have 30% chance for crit and thats my bleed chance i should just drop mercy killer for the like maybe 5% more damage?

[stable socket]

You guys are talking past each other:

1. Certain things are numerically better than others
2. You don't need to use the absolute best gear to perform well at the game

[junior needle]

Being passive aggressive from the sidelines doesn't help anyone

[stable socket]

That's it

[idle swallow]

I mean you come in a specific class chat in a game specific discord, people are gonna give you what's considered the optimal setup for whatever you're trying to cook. You're free to do whatever you want but arguing with them doesn't make sense

[junior needle]

1. Certain things are numerically better than others
   This is apparently an extremely hard concept to grasp

[green marsh]

I'm still waiting on that supposed explanation you were going to give earlier but you childishly dodge whining over my sarcasm.

[bleak jungle]

Well i did say this knife build was my go to for zealot so I dont know what he would compair it to a vet build

[stable socket]

E.g. if I have a 79 damage 79 stopping power plasma gun, I'm technically suboptimal because an 80 damage 80 stopping power plasma gun is numerically better. However, the extra bit of damage doesn't matter and I'll perform roughly the same with both weapons, so it isn't worth rolling a new one

[bleak jungle]

all started here btw #veteran-class message

[junior needle]

Why would I choose to engage with someone who from the outset has been unpleasant to me and only has been increasingly more so?

[wanton dawn]

Well, I don't think zealot has reliable source of bleed so idk if it is the best blessings here. Though IDK and IDC cuz I play neither zealot nor knife so your choice

[tall torrent]

Y’all need to calm down it’s not that serious lol

[bleak jungle]

fair

[green marsh]

I just see an excuse of running away while pretending to be right but whatever, I'll drop it.

[junior needle]

If you want an answer you should be civil

[bleak jungle]

Im not making a big deal out of it I guess dont get the hate on what I find is working just fine

[hollow ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-squish-cat-cat-head-rub-head-rub-discord-gif-20128447

[bleak jungle]

Anyway folks for real im ending this time I dont see this going anywhere not toxic

have a good day everyone

[idle swallow]

just another day in the imperium

[junior needle]

No one has been "hating on" what you like, merely trying to tell you some options can be better

[wanton dawn]

"Merely"

[stable socket]

Oh actually there's an easy way to measure mercy killer (60% weak spot on bleed) vs precog (60% weak spot on dodge)

[junior needle]

precog is finesse

[wanton dawn]

I have been playing 2 games since the argument started

[junior needle]

Crit AND weakspot

[wanton dawn]

It has gone well past the point of merely

[untold mulch]

tbf, Soldier 69 can get somewhat abrasive with the wording

[stable socket]

right ok lets pretend you never crit tho

[junior needle]

I think I keep things pretty civil given what I was getting from someone

[stable socket]

and you 3-shot a crusher, so mercy killer gives 0-60%-60% bonus
if precog is up, precog gives 60%-60%-60% bonus

so the question is how often precog is up (i.e. how good you are at dodging)

[tall torrent]

Precog’s main issue is 2s uptime

That’s why I wasn’t a big fan of it but I think zealot can make really good use of it

[untold mulch]

No complains here, I get ya

[wanton dawn]

Things that uptime on dodge are surprisingly unreliable

[tall torrent]

Only decently reliable one is riposte and that’s a 6s uptime

[wanton dawn]

Then again, it is zealot which has no innate source of bleed

[stable socket]

except for bleed on crit!

[hearty panther]

duelist is just better tbh so zealot takes riposte imo

[junior needle]

"In short I'm desperate to use a game to prove I'm better than you." is not exactly quality conversation

[untold mulch]

[hearty panther]

except thats you to a T

[untold mulch]

let it lie, unless its comes back

[junior needle]

Didn't you get a warning from a mod to be nice one time?

[hearty panther]

are you a mod?

[junior needle]

Do I have to be to make a kind request of you

[untold mulch]

Kark, here we go again

[wanton dawn]

Am gonna make some tea for real though

am thirsty

[untold mulch]

I have gotten used to drink tea before sleep, kinda nice ngl

[wanton dawn]

Tea contains caffeine molecule stuff. Keep you awake

[tall torrent]

There’s this weird visual artifact with MS word tables that I want to get rid of

[wanton dawn]

Unless you are talking tisane

[tall torrent]

Should I switch to excel or PowerPoint for my guide

[untold mulch]

Dude, I can drink straight caffeine before going to sleep, and still sleep

Caffeine doesn't do shit to my body

Is too weak 🗿

[junior needle]

Any perceived differences can be discussed civilly and without passive aggressiveness or strawmanning

[wanton dawn]

I trust you, my father is the same. Take the strongest around and still sleep like a loud log

[untold mulch]

Bodies are weird

[hollow ibex]

does it show up when you convert to pdf tho?

[untold mulch]

Like for a long time I was confused with people talking about caffeine making them hyper awake

[wanton dawn]

Powerpoint is risky

[tall torrent]

No, but the plan is to link share

[untold mulch]

meanwhile I was like.... I really don't notice a difference?

[hollow ibex]

hmm does it show up in the browser in that case? when you publish it?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[wanton dawn]

Powerpoint is not made for detailed guide.

[hollow ibex]

oof

[untold mulch]

This is the internet, 99% of differences are gonna be discussed with insults sadly

[idle swallow]

coffee seller I'm going into battle and I need your strongest coffees

[tall torrent]

My other issue is that

This guide has become a really big file

I kind of want to reduce page count

But without compromising what’s important

[untold mulch]

Oh you are the one who made the pinned guide

[tall torrent]

Like, for one, I can’t cover every melee atk combo with the current format

[tall torrent]

Oui c’est moi

[untold mulch]

got a question for you

Why not Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer name

🗿

[tall torrent]

That’s actually the name of the guide I’m working on rn

[untold mulch]

[tall torrent]

I’ve renamed it

[untold mulch]

My complain is revoked

good day sir

[tall torrent]

Some sections I really like and prob won’t change

Some sections might need complete overhaul

[junior needle]

Very sadly. I'm open to feedback provide it's not demeaning or insulting, doing either won't get much out of me

[untold mulch]

[wanton dawn]

Got gifted this. For nurgle flavour

[untold mulch]

💀

[tall torrent]

Like, I quite like the build page format rn

[untold mulch]

ohh colors

Still waiting for Hellgun

its been more than a year, they can't keep getting away with it

[hollow ibex]

just include links / headers for people to jump around

[wanton dawn]

Man gonna go for MARKDOWN or LATEX

[tall torrent]

That’s there already

Need to add links tho

Headings alrdy there

[tired ember]

He isn't, but I am. Rule 1, don't be an ass.

[untold mulch]

Damn

[hollow turtle]

LOL

[trail totem]

which enemies count for that penance? everything with flak on?

[bleak jungle]

more or less even fodder enemies should count towards it.

[junior needle]

carapace at the very least

Anything the krak sticks to should be armor

[wanton dawn]

Krak stick on flak so probably anything where it sticks

[junior needle]

Some of the penances are misleading currently, like ogryns heavy hitter penance

So make sure it's tracking

[crude fiber]

I'm telling you, twinned blast is slept on

Who cares if 90% of the time both nades stick to the same enemy

[wanton dawn]

Twinned blast frag is strong imo, but it is memey on kraks

[trail totem]

damn didnt think of blowing up hordes of bruisers

[junior needle]

What's the chance on twinned blast now

[wanton dawn]

Its 20%

[crude fiber]

Stuck it the helmet of a dreg bruiser. I won't count towards the penance but it's funny

[wanton dawn]

I find twin blast useful on no ammo maelstrom specifically

[junior needle]

That makes sense

1/5 doesn't seem great for regularly gameplay

[wanton dawn]

I do as much damage with my frags than with my melee on this mod

[trail totem]

frags or kraks?

[junior needle]

Maybe it should be on a timer

[wanton dawn]

Frags. Kraks is bait on no ammo

[junior needle]

Every x seconds you throw another grenade

[untold mulch]

Timer or every X throws

Random chance for a grenade throw is dumb design

[trail totem]

that'd be broken as all hell for just 1 perk point

[junior needle]

I think the timer would be better

[wanton dawn]

Timer would be too reliable

[untold mulch]

Could be a decentish cd thougj

[junior needle]

They already have free grenades on a timer

[trail totem]

like what 180 seconds?

[junior needle]

60s is the current free grenade talent

[untold mulch]

Idk, but rn is trash

20% chance is not worth

[junior needle]

Given the yuge amount of trash in the game

[trail totem]

wouldnt call it total trash just unreliable

[wanton dawn]

I just said it has a niche though

[junior needle]

I don't think another point for another free grenade would be too good

[trail totem]

i mean

[junior needle]

With about that cd

[trail totem]

if you could choose between demo stockpile or twinned blast every 60 seconds

[wanton dawn]

I can throw up to 60 grenades in no ammo maelstrom, 40 being a good average

[untold mulch]

Demo stockpile

[junior needle]

Stockpile actually gives you stock back

Twinned blast would still require nade pickups by itself

[trail totem]

not really no

[untold mulch]

Also, in my experience the first grenade does the work, and the second is just an extra

[trail totem]

demo team exists

[junior needle]

I mean sure, but then you're taking a demo stockpile alternative

[trail totem]

on shock troop + dogs and whatnot you might as well equip rumbler in that nade slot

[junior needle]

Can't you only get stg and dogs on some maelstroms?

[trail totem]

i'd take double nades + rng spawn over set spawn with unreliable double nades

[tall torrent]

Rework twinned blast into smth that has a chance to not consume grenade when you use grenade

[trail totem]

you can get specialists, mutants and dogs all at the same time in 1 maelstrom

[tall torrent]

Make it a good chance like 30% or smth

[trail totem]

+pox gas or nurgle blessed

[untold mulch]

Now, that would make it a maybe pick

[tall torrent]

Veteran still has way too many unnecessary/trap nodes

[untold mulch]

how many reworks has had the class already?

[crude fiber]

Not enough

[untold mulch]

True

[tall torrent]

It’s decent rn but doesn’t mean it can’t be better

Exe stance still has meme-tier pathing

[junior needle]

Exe is still meme tier itself because scriers

[tall torrent]

You’re picking between super inconsistent breakpoint boost, or actual meme

[trail totem]

3 points tax or dogshit ult

when most only require 2

[untold mulch]

so many tax for exec stance

all to get broken because a poxwalker spawned on your back

[tall torrent]

Killzone and opening salvo need buffs

Desperately

[untold mulch]

Rn the game is too oppresive with melee enemies to make a skill that turns off the second you change to melee

[trail totem]

opening salvo is so shit you might as well triple the bonus and it would still be iffy at best

[white minnow]

on the other hand you can deal with the melee enemies and pewpew at ranged once that's done

it's not like ranged enemies ever push you

and 8m is fairly short

[tall torrent]

There’re people who think Killzone works the same way as Catch a Breath so it doesn’t need changes

Those people are also very wrong

[white minnow]

i do like it for a specific build to ensure a one-shot gunner BP on agri IAG

[junior needle]

PBB doesn't turn off when you change to melee btw

Scriers doesn't either, AND it gives you melee bonuses

[untold mulch]

Damn witches stealing our buffs

[white minnow]

yeah i don't think anyone is in disagreement that exe's stance should have that aspect changed

[untold mulch]

😔

[tall torrent]

Even if opening salvo gave u a 50% crit it’ll still be mid

[untold mulch]

okay dissagree here

[trail totem]

idk man shotguns exist

[untold mulch]

with laspistol

it would be silly af

[junior needle]

Would at least have some abuse case with shocktrooper and crit stacking

[tall torrent]

Yea shotguns also have horrible crit bonus

[untold mulch]

laspistol woith shocktrooper

by the time the buff is out, you already would have shot a lot for free

[tall torrent]

Yes, that’s fine

[trail totem]

but at 50% it will still be a hefty boost for agri altfire

[tall torrent]

[trail totem]

for just 1 perk point

[untold mulch]

Canonical lasgun ammo

[junior needle]

I agree, make it happen

[tall torrent]

Lore accurate las weapon

[crude fiber]

We must not boost opening salvo crit chance. It would make sneaky cat too powerful

[untold mulch]

god I love lasguns

[untold mulch]

Oh no, I ran out of ammo

Chucks power pack into a fire

[tall torrent]

In fact if you boost opening salvo to 100% crit chance then you won’t even need to run survivalist to have infinite ammo for lasguns

[junior needle]

It's pretty bad currently

It does need a buff

Or a rework

[untold mulch]

that would be so silly, and I love it

[tall torrent]

Ikr

But fr tho opening salvo and Killzone need big buffs/reworks

Killzone rework especially

It does NOT work the same way as Catch a Breath in practice

[crude fiber]

Is the the ranged boost with not enemies nearby?

[tall torrent]

Whenever CaB is off, it means you’re engaged in melee so u have toughness already

[tall torrent]

Yes and it’s horrible

[wanton dawn]

I like it

[crude fiber]

But muh niche breakpoint

[tall torrent]

You’re built different

[wanton dawn]

Well, I like to test random stuff and see what work and what's worth

this one works, although it is not worth going out of your way to get it if you dont play exe

[crude fiber]

So your saying if there was a viable way to get 15% damage boost it would be good

[wanton dawn]

In any case, this talent is basically longshot when doing clean up on shooter duties. Which is great on CIAG cuz it's dps is way worse at range

[tall torrent]

That’s about it’s only application tbh

On guns that don’t care about breakpoints

Where it’s just “occasionally more dmg, nice”

[white minnow]

it does matter for guns that care about breakpoints, but you'll have to check for breakpoints

and breakpoint testing is for nerds (and takes time)

[faint meadow]

just hit 30, and am trying to get a infiltrator setup. think i have a decent grasp on the nodes. am running a kantrael mk12/knife mk6. would post the screencap but its not letting me.

[untold mulch]

You need to pass more time on the server before it allows you images on some channels

[junior needle]

You can use imgur to show it to us in the meantime

Or use gameslantern

[tough tiger]

which shovel is the best?

[marble yew]

Aight, time to farm the backstab penance, does sweep weapons miss backstabs, is there a specific weapon to go for with backstab farming?

[junior needle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor

[hollow ibex]

Prob 7 overall though 3 is very good too

[tough tiger]

tanks

[junior needle]

You should in theory be fine with any weapon provided you can feasibly kill enemies while they aren't facing you

[hollow ibex]

Standard shovel crying in the corner 😭

[junior needle]

Good dodge distance helps

Knives have an innate backstab bonus but you have no obligation to run them

[marble yew]

im thinking maybe rashad and spamming quick heavies

[faint meadow]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9be89c85-4aa6-4bc0-9380-c3fd20fbee19/mynyval

[marble yew]

kinda wack that i have to be an annoyance for a pretty long time for that loner penance

[arctic rampart]

or forget doing stupid penance

[junior needle]

So for starters, the k12 is superceded almost essentially entirely by the 1a atm

Shocktrooper is also a very good pickup

for lasguns

[faint meadow]

its just what i got roll on atm

[junior needle]

That's fine. For ilas you want headhunter and then either deadly or ghost

Ghost is primarily for enabling deadshot/dnd shenanigans but it does provide a very nice defensive bonus outside of that

Provided you can consistently beam heads

[tough tiger]

what blessings should you use with shovels?

[junior needle]

Infiltrate is good but point heavy, and generally not as good as VOC with overshield for you and your team

Knives want uncanny and another blessing, it looks like you're running mercy killer

[arctic rampart]

@tough tiger click on the sticky in the top of this discord (channel)

[junior needle]

Tinkerer doesn't provide much outside of boss damage for kraks as they already one shot crushers, so if you're not going surv you could be better off just going speed aura with that pathing

[faint meadow]

adjusted, can refresh page. took extra point to the -20% sprint cost.

[faint meadow]

i could see, dropping reciprocity and the focus target keystone(i tend to forget about it unless a monstrosity shows up) to grab the shock trooper.

[agile forge]

It helps with bulwarks too

[junior needle]

That's news to me

What changes about them? It should be 50% damage bonus

[agile forge]

4800 HP since the patch

Kraks deal 4000 iirc

[junior needle]

Yeesh

[agile forge]

Presumably you can just do a FT ping

That's 20%

[junior needle]

Can't recommend the sprint cost for this. It's fine for some minor utility but generally not worth giving up something like shocktrooper or a big damage boost for

You could drop the right side but it's up to you if you want to give up your melee bonuses

[faint meadow]

ok dropped sprint and reciprocity for shocktrooper

still keeping close quarters and desperado

[somber axle]

Yeah you need either Tinkerer or Ogryn 20% to let a Krak kill a Bulwark now. Or Elite 15% + Focus Target with at least 2 stacks

[waxen veldt]

I assume rending strikes isn't needed in a plasma build?

[junior needle]

The adm's are highly positive with no falloff outside of carapace.

Which is still pretty good

[somber axle]

but also go all in on Tinkerer/The Bigger They Are/Grenadier and just obliterate boss HP

Unleash the KRAKS

[shell lagoon]

Are the recon lasguns as bad as they seem compared to something like agripinaa and columnus autoguns or is there something im missing? Some perk tree route or weapon blessings that made them better?

(I'm new)

[somber axle]

Oh boy

Here I go again

[shell lagoon]

Oh sorry

[somber axle]

Gatsu I have a story to tell

[shell lagoon]

I like stories

[tame lodge]

Yeah they are bad but Sneaky has something to tell

[waxen veldt]

adms?

[shell lagoon]

I havent unlocked them yet but headhunter and infernus seem like they'd make them good

[junior needle]

armor damage modifiers, basically what % of your base damage your weapon actually deals to something

[shell lagoon]

They just have such a low weak spot modifer idk

[waxen veldt]

So still worth using you'd say

[somber axle]

The Recons are all good guns that require the talent tree to juice them up into being good and can be run on both Damnation and on Auric Damnation to fine effect. They have better ammo efficiency/ammo economy than most people expect (inlcuding the Recon Mk VId) through Headhunter and Shock Trooper. If you throw in Deadshot it gets even better on both damage output and ammo economy.

Allow me to share

THE GIF

[junior needle]

They are severely undertuned currently and require a ton of handholding from the tree/a very high effort platystle and setup to make "work"

To be more precise

[hollow ibex]

recon lasguns are mostly for the memes right now

[junior needle]

They are bad guns that can be juiced

[somber axle]

BEHOLD

[hollow ibex]

pretty lights

[somber axle]

this is how you can obliterate Crushers with a Recon Mk VId

now allow me to explain this silliness because you have questions I'm sure

[junior needle]

You can obliterate crushers with any automatic by taking multiple rending nodes*

[oblique totem]

Did I just see a recon lasgun put down a crusher with 10 shots?

[junior needle]

ammo

[somber axle]

Yeah but this uses 10-13 ammo on a Recon VId which has a clip size of 108

[shell lagoon]

I go full left tree for the 15 stacks because its easy to hit heads with all the recons, is there a better reason you go middle?

[somber axle]

the ammo efficiency is hilarious

[junior needle]

Where's your disclaimer

[somber axle]

With the Recon Mk VId you need Focus Target with Target Down as a way of helping stam efficiency

[junior needle]

The recons have very low finesse values, so finesse bonuses are low value on them

[somber axle]

It's ok hold on I'm getting there

SO THE DISCLAIMER

[junior needle]

You should start with it

[shell lagoon]

Because of deadshot i assume

[junior needle]

Yes, because of deadshot

[shell lagoon]

I schmee

[somber axle]

Gattsu you should know that this build requires an insane level of effort in real matches compared to other builds and as the resident Recon main here the Recons are all good but the disclaimer here is that the Columnus Infantry Autogun (as well as the Agripina Infantry Autogun) are both VERY STRONG and require little to no effort to run either of those Infantry Autoguns in matches comparably

[junior needle]

It's worth noting that crusher kill took over half a stamina bar (with 3 +3 stam curios), and the frontloading of ammo efficiency from deadshot and shocktrooper is not representative of its overall ammo efficiency

Also it's a highly juiced setup with exe

[shell lagoon]

Yeah i get that but i just love the way the recons have no recoil its so easy to click heads

[somber axle]

Let me share a few reasons why Recons can perform surprisingly effectively in both Damnation and Auric Damnation but why this build that allows them to perform is not something a new player should try

And also

Allow me to share a Scoreboard as proof it performs fine

[shell lagoon]

I'm running 3 +2 stams rn anyway

[somber axle]

and also outdoes an average Columnus Infantry Autogun user and Plasma gun user on ammo/damage/kills

but only if you're a clown like me

because this does require some serious clown dancing to pull off

[shell lagoon]

I like clown dancing

[junior needle]

For the newer players, scoreboards are fine for data gathering but are highly contamined with subjective factors

[somber axle]

BEHOLD GATTSU

[junior needle]

Such as personal skill, team skill, and random variance

[somber axle]

look closely at the number of ammo tins/ammo packs/ammo crates taken by all of us

the Vet on the far right used Plasma

the Vet to my immediate right used Columnus Infantry Autogun

[arctic rampart]

demolition over superiority complex?

[somber axle]

This was a 29 minute Damnation match

[junior needle]

Now behold a typical auric recon user

[somber axle]

also Gattsu listen to Soldier 69 because they are very correct in that a lot of the things I do are because I am a clown and this is not normal to be expected of the Recon guns

[junior needle]

Auric 5 specifically

[somber axle]

the average Recon user cannot do the clown dance like I do LMFAO

[shell lagoon]

Okay but like

[somber axle]

AND NOW FOR THE PROPER DISCLAIMER

[shell lagoon]

what's the clown dance

[junior needle]

Using duck n dive for stamina restoration

[somber axle]

oh ok so let me explain the clown dance first

[shell lagoon]

i heard about that

[arctic rampart]

Ammunition pickups are typically not realistic. I often pick one up just because nobody else is gonna pick it up and its gonna go to waste. Someone who going to post stats about X weapon needs less than the best weapon (plasma) after might get doctored ammo stats as a result

[hollow turtle]

Redid my Tanith look to actually use the Tanith color file.

[arctic rampart]

yo are you fighting with ewoks?

[shell lagoon]

wtf theres a cape?

[somber axle]

so clown dance is that you must purposely shove yourself into the frontline of your team to both ping specials/elites for Focus Target + Target Down (each stack gives 5% toughness and 5% stam back so with 5 stacks of Focus Target you regen 25% stam back on a pinged target kill) and you also need to use Duck and Dive while in the frontline to slide dodge while shooters are aiming at you

[hollow turtle]

Worse. I'm fighting Automatons on the creek.

[shell lagoon]

That looks sick i've been looking for a recon/sniper style vet cosmetic

[junior needle]

Indeed, another reason scoreboards can be contamined is fudging of the evidence

[somber axle]

the clown dance is that you must run to the front specifically to become the equivalent of an MMORPG tank and dodge constantly to maintain your stam efficiency

[hollow turtle]

Modded in via For the Drip.

[junior needle]

Someone trying to prove a point will try hard to prove that point and tend not to show scoreboards that either don't show it or disprove the point

[shell lagoon]

That doesn't sound very clownish considering duck and dive also works on dodges, youre still putting out dps

[arctic rampart]

@hollow turtle https://images.tntdrama.com/tnt/$dyna_params/https%3A%2F%2Fi.cdn.tntdrama.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2F2017%2F04%2Fthe-return-of-the-jedi-1600x900-1600x900_091620160450.jpg

[somber axle]

It varies mission to mission yeah and honestly I ended up deleting Scoreboard because it was both causing stability issues with Darktide (stuttering/crashing/disconnects) and also because I realised I was being too judgy mentally on the performance of my team and also too judgy on my own personal performance

it's like WoW DPS meters

cool to track personal progress

[junior needle]

It shouldn't be causing that