veteran-class

[eternal venture]

It’s a weird ult

The first two phases are very creative

Then it’s a whole lot of nothing until Wormhole

Then it’s a whole lot of nothing until clear

Perfect Alex is kinda cool I guess

It’s worth clearing though, if you have the interest

[bitter turtle]

maybe if i ever resub lul

[lavish ferry]

which catachan knife do you use? they feel super samey to me

[eternal venture]

And yeah I usually PFed until DSR. Then I pretty much had to get a static to clear

[bitter turtle]

i really enjoy mk6

yeah that makes sense

[eternal venture]

I’ll give DT until the Eden ultimate to decide whether I want to stick with the game

[bitter turtle]

DSR looked likea hell of a slog

oh yeah

maybe ill resub if Eden Ultimate is super gay

[eternal venture]

I’ve played since ARR

[lavish ferry]

cool thanks

[eternal venture]

Oh it will be

[bitter turtle]

give me that gaia ryne pls

[eternal venture]

Ryne and Gaia are definitely having steamy tongue sex and fusing to become the final phase

[bitter turtle]

lel

[eternal venture]

Or something

[tiny summit]

The newer chainaxe still has some of the least satisfying light atk sfx/feedback

[eternal venture]

Eden savages were cool too

So I’ll clear the ultimate for that

E4S was the last fight I really enjoyed

Exdeath and Kefka are peak

[bitter turtle]

yeah

exdeath was hella fun

especially actually giving healers something really tense to heal through

[eternal venture]

That fucking stage transition

[bitter turtle]

the drop to 1hp followed by heavy as fuck raidwides, forgot the mechanic name

and the first time we have a 2part fight ye

[eternal venture]

It was so good that they reused the glass breaking animation in EW for when Zenos Ryu shows up lmao

Yeah that fight looked so fun on content

Still sad I missed it since I couldn’t afford the sub then

Oh well

[eternal venture]

Almaghest

[bitter turtle]

rip

ye that was it

i had good memories of pugging that

pugged it until lockout at like 5AM

we were so close

everyone was just like

[eternal venture]

That was his monstrous raidwide with the dot

[bitter turtle]

"we're going again, lets just fucking finish this"

[eternal venture]

[bitter turtle]

nobody left

[eternal venture]

Hell yeah

[bitter turtle]

amazing stuff

[eternal venture]

I miss those days

These days, people party hop

[bitter turtle]

i do feel thankful for asphelodos though

i met a really good friend pugging floor 1

[eternal venture]

Asphodelos was alright. P4S was actually really cool

[sturdy schooner]

heya gang just getting back and need to relearn a meta, on plasma gun is blazeaway or volatile better? assuming I can get volatile 4

[bitter turtle]

we had a genuine 1st time savage 0 parsing grey ast

i stuck around to help and the other tank said i was the only good PLD player they ever met

LUL

[eternal venture]

Phase 2 was my favorite Savage in the xpac I think

LMAO

[bitter turtle]

the funny part is

i dont disagree

i fucking hate pld players

[eternal venture]

That was when paladin was rare

[bitter turtle]

from back in HW

"I HAVE A SHIELD SO I MUST MAIN TANK AND PULL"

[bitter turtle]

blaze away

you do not charge plasma

you left lcick

charging is a very niche mechanic on it

its a dps and an ammo efficiency loss

the only niche of it is that it increases cleave

[eternal venture]

I think it’s hilarious (and sad) that MCH paid for its HW war crimes until halfway through EW

And now it just shits out damage

Absurd class

[bitter turtle]

yeah

but its still boring as fuck

[eternal venture]

Yeah I hate mch LOL

[bitter turtle]

mch is the reason i have no hope for smn

ppl saying "they're just setting the groundwork!'

[eternal venture]

Bard is cool until you realize it’s just suffering

[bitter turtle]

thats the exact same narrative as rework MCH

[eternal venture]

When you could play mch instead

[bitter turtle]

complexity never happened

[eternal venture]

Oh yeah, they gave mch the best mitigation just in time for TOP: Dismantle

An extra 10% dr for your healers to play with > anything bard and dancer offer

[bitter turtle]

honestly

[eternal venture]

Monk is still kinda fun at least. Shame they got rid of most of the positionals

[bitter turtle]

FFXIV balance discussion makes me want to shoot someone

all the jobs are so fucking close to each other but people moan endlessly

[eternal venture]

Oh man

[bitter turtle]

just like asphelodos PLD

likei said

i was literally parsing like 96 on the first floors

[eternal venture]

Abyssos week 1

[bitter turtle]

but i had ppl complaining "oh but PLD sucks"

[eternal venture]

Every class is within like… 1% damage of each other

[agile forge]

Well your parse is compared with other PLDs lmao

[bitter turtle]

you fuckers didnt live through HW balance disparity just gtfo

[agile forge]

Not the whole tank slate

BUT the classes are definitely close enough to each other

[bitter turtle]

of course, but would you rather have an orange PLD or a grey DRK

lol

[eternal venture]

Ahhh HW, when double phys ranged was king

[bitter turtle]

and i assure you

these were not even purple+ parsing ppl

[eternal venture]

The balance problem right now is, like, rdm has to work twice as hard while SMN drools on itself

[bitter turtle]

they're just looking to get carried

[agile forge]

4 MCHs, 1 DRG, 1 AST godcomp

[eternal venture]

And blm does whatever the hell it wants

Hey, you need a bard in that comp for the evasion down!!!

[agile forge]

Yeah, tbh anybody who sweats comp since shadowbringers is an idiot

[eternal venture]

Otherwise, your whm can’t blast

[bitter turtle]

the only legit time to sweat comp was in HW

[eternal venture]

Comp really only matters week 1

[bitter turtle]

because PLD was just that shitty

[slow spade]

Man these tox bombers are a pain

[eternal venture]

These days

[bitter turtle]

UCOB 1st clear was with a DRK

DRK was the shittiest tank in StB

[eternal venture]

Ayooooo

[slow spade]

I try a non-power sword now I miss the cleave

[eternal venture]

People are going cob clears where they let baha get buffed now

It’s p neat

[bitter turtle]

only legit reason to complain about anything was PLD in HW because its strongest move was literally 260 potency kek

[agile forge]

Chainsword IV cleaves so good

[bitter turtle]

yeah i saw

i still keep up with news a bit for xiv

its hard to completely let go

[slow spade]

I'll give it a go

[agile forge]

My static collapsed 2 days ago

[slow spade]

I'm on a spending spree now that we got my plasteel

[agile forge]

Been together since deltascape

Feels REALLY BAD man

[eternal venture]

But yeah, class disparity really only shows in rare situations like Abyssos week 1 or Alexander week 1

[agile forge]

P12S is such a miserable fight to get stuck on

It's not even that hard

[eternal venture]

These people need to go play WoW, where class gaps are huge

[eternal venture]

Oh no

Which mech

[agile forge]

But lazy people who can't be bothered to fully learn the strat kill my motivation

[eternal venture]

Let me guess:

Caloric 1

[agile forge]

We got through pangenesis

[eternal venture]

Ahh

[agile forge]

But one of us refused to fully learn cal 1

[eternal venture]

OH NO

I KNEW IT

I FUCKING KNEW IT

God I hate cal 1

[agile forge]

So we were wiping to them going the wrong way

And it came tk a head when they accused me of overcomplicating it

[eternal venture]

Caloric would be a fine mech if it was at least a little lenient

[agile forge]

It's like, no, fucker, the movement limitation mechanic specifically punishes you for trying to wing it

[eternal venture]

You walk in the wrong direction one step, and kablooey

Which strat did you guys use?

[agile forge]

Rinon

[eternal venture]

Good.

Very good.

[agile forge]

The guy couldn't handle "fires look clockwise"

[eternal venture]

The EU strat was nice and easy to understand

NA insisted on using Echo’s strat

Which was named Papan for some reason

[agile forge]

So I ended up eventually disbanding after we lost a few people and I'm joining a new static

I can't do raid leader again lmao

[bitter turtle]

strat names are so cursed

[eternal venture]

It’s not a bad strat… but it’s an Echo strat, which means you need a lot of trust

It’s impossible to tell how you mess up Papan because everyone is so close together

[eternal venture]

Oh man

[bitter turtle]

elmo sharingan uptime dog ilya dwayne strat

[eternal venture]

And then people do the smash bros shit

[agile forge]

Mario kart

And spyro

[bitter turtle]

PLAYSTATION MARIO KART

[agile forge]

Are also strat names that came up

[eternal venture]

Where they steal a strat, rename it, then flip it 90 degrees

BILI BILI

DWAYNE

There was Sharingan light rampant, and then there was the better one: Ayatori Sharingan lr

Or if you progged week one, maybe you did dick strat

Or Australian hook strat

Those were actual LR strats btw

[agile forge]

I think we did ayatori for that

Man, we cleared E8S, we cleared TEA

What kills us?

"Look clockwise"

I am Not OK with this. I'm playing like shit in other games now too

[eternal venture]

In TOP, westerners loved doing BPOG lineup for a few mechs because the mnemonic is funny and you just match colors (also because of TEA). But in Asia, people thought BPOG was stupid gibberish, so they did 1234 strat instead because you counted the number of strokes to make each shape above your head

[agile forge]

Did 3 maelstrom runs last night and lost all of them

[eternal venture]

Don’t worry, p12 just sucks

Annoying fight

[agile forge]

It's the inconsistency in learning times thing

I've been clear ready for months

[eternal venture]

I think that compounds with how mechs these days are so precise

[agile forge]

But I got stuck waiting for people to get consistent, and then Mr Lazy Thinking Bastard gets all stubborn and obstinate

[eternal venture]

Everything is a body check or requires very precise movement

That’s the part that surprises me

Rinon strat is so easy

It makes a dumb mechanic basically brain dead

Ahh well

Best of luck to your clear. You deserve it after putting up with that crap lol

[agile forge]

Yeah, gonna miss them though

And thank you

[eternal venture]

[normal spruce]

Got Point Blank as the last blessing on the zarona revolver, at this point all my shots are going to be a crit if I play right

[bitter turtle]

uh

just so you know

point blank's description lies

its not "crit after melee kill"

its "crit after pistol whip kill"

[normal spruce]

Wtf

[bitter turtle]

AKA its complete trash

[normal spruce]

Why is that a thing?

[bitter turtle]

🤷‍♀️

[novel saddle]

Damn that's disgusting

[normal spruce]

Doesn't the pistol whip barely do any damage, at this point I'm not that suprised, this game's itemization is super janky

[agile forge]

Surgical or Crucian, or bust :)

[bitter turtle]

yes

you are right

its garbage

there really is no reason to runanything other than surgical handcannon on the zarona

agri has more options

but mostly because it sucks more

[normal spruce]

Yeah I really want handcannon tbh

[novel saddle]

The pistol whip sucks not only because of the low damage, but also because of the recovery during which you can't do anything

[normal spruce]

But it's alright I got Power Cycler 4, so I'm sort of content with RNG gods

[agile forge]

Crucian can replace surgical for weapon spec, right?

[bitter turtle]

tbh

i wouldnt suggest it

but feel free if you cant get otherwise

crucian is just kinda meh

4x 6% crit is only 24% crit

you'd get more from surgical if you needed to aim for 0.9 seconds

which

idk about you

but i do not fire that fast

its also annoying to constantly maintain your bullet count at 2

[agile forge]

How much crit do I have pre-blessing though?

Idk how much of surgical is wasted

[bitter turtle]

51%

assuming deadshot + maxed crit bonus + 5% base crit

you only "waste" surgical if you aim for over 1.5 seconds

crucian just cant really be depended on

let me paint you a picture

supposed you do use crucian

and you stay at 2 bullets

firs tbullet is a guaranteed crit because of wep spec

so that's fine

you shoot the crusher

he's down to half hp

now you shoot again with crucian

that's a 75% chance to crit

sounds good right?

well 25% of hte time it doesnt crit and you dont kill the crusher

now you have to reload and shoot again lol

cause you're staying at 2 bullets and are now out of bullets

its just not worth the trouble

for a blessing that basically is still inferior to surgical

[tame lodge]

If you empty your revolver, activating WS with the reload node, you get 2 bullets, personally I don't like keeping low ammo on my revolver

[bitter turtle]

yeah

like you dont really WANT to be sitting at only 2 bullets in the first place

having the option to shoot more is always nice

what if ther e are 5 ragers coming at you

do you really only want 2 bullets

and the 2nd bullet isnt even guaranteed to crit to kill one

[tame lodge]

Hell no lol

[bitter turtle]

meanwhile with surgical you are waiting 1.5 seconds between each shot to guarantee 1shot critting all 5 of them

ive said this before but i dont even think crucian is all that good on the fan revolver

its just not reliable

and the difference between killing with 1 bullet and 2 is huge on the revolver given it has a clip of 5

[vague smelt]

Are Tactical Axes good

[bitter turtle]

On vet, no

I don't really see any reason to use them

They're OK on zealots

[vague smelt]

Ah I see

[bitter turtle]

They can leverage the crit bonus into tons of blazing piety cdr and procs

[gray finch]

isnt ANY melee weapon good for a melee character ?

[bitter turtle]

Crucis exists :^) jk

I mean yeah kinda

But it actually feels nice to use on zealot imo

[gray finch]

yea since zelaot is the easiest class in the game

[bitter turtle]

You really can shred things up fast since zealot has so many bonuses for critting

[vague smelt]

Damn Lucius 2 is so fun

[agile forge]

Fair enough, surgical it is then

[tiny summit]

Very fun

[grand perch]

oh luscious lucius mark 2

[vague smelt]

Now I wish the game didn't make me spend 1M to get a good weapon

[royal quartz]

There's probably people to defend that, saying that they like it that way.

[vague smelt]

They like what

get horrible stats and spend large amount of time trying to get functional weapons

[royal quartz]

Yep

[vague smelt]

Sounds like the scrub mindset for people who don't play Auric or just throws QPA

[midnight mortar]

The classic "Well I'm having fun, so who cares?" defense.

[royal quartz]

Yeah. V2 and DT have some of that kind of audience.

[midnight mortar]

Very much so unfortunately.

[royal quartz]

duhhh uhhh.. yeah, we're getting fucked dry.. but I like that duhh

[midnight mortar]

Lots of apologists and people who think criticism means you can't like something.

[vague smelt]

[midnight mortar]

And then just generally low standards.

[royal quartz]

Dislike a single weapon combo? bro the game isn't for you bro

[tiny summit]

I don't like the system but I'm also of the mind that people are overdramatic the system prevents them from having completely serviceable weapons

[midnight mortar]

It's less about prevention than it is about needlessly hostile design.

[tiny summit]

The game doesn't have content to need any god rolls. After 60% dmg or anything I consider that just min maxing

[midnight mortar]

And a question of why would the game allow for and encourage the optimization of blessings and perks in the first place if you aren't supposed to want to engage with that system because of how poorly it's designed or how unnecessary it is.

[tiny summit]

Like if my goal for every crafting is my god roll rashad it's terrible, horrible, this is affront to my senses and time. If it's "60-70ish and at least 1 blessing I want" eh, good enough, I'll live and still enjoy the time

[dusky flare]

Imagine striving to get serviceable weapons

[trim hemlock]

I do

[faint beacon]

You will take your actual brick of a lasgun and you will like it

(The current crafting system or something)

[tame lodge]

Hard times make strong soldiers

Except we're all vets, we had one too many hard times

[balmy flume]

Hey I heard this before, the last time it happened the Moebians turned Traitor 🤣

[atomic zephyr]

melk selling this how would i change it

[trim hemlock]

Infested to Flak, Deathspitter or FF to Dumdum

[atomic zephyr]

also, is this worth picking up?

[austere pine]

brunt? hello?

[atomic zephyr]

brunt gaming

[trim hemlock]

It’s so-so, albeit I don’t think I would

[austere pine]

how2lastpistolmk2?

infernus ghost? infernus dumdum? ghost dumdum?

dude's dripped to the teeth in all things cadia

[trim hemlock]

Infernus Dumdum is great IMO

Albeit Infernus will only help you deal more boss damage, which is something you may or may not want to spec into heavily

[austere pine]

i like what ghost has done for me on zealot but i'm not sure with big (wo)man vet

[hollow ibex]

really not a fan of infernus

[trim hemlock]

And may overlap with other classes’ burn dot application capabilities (like Gunlugger Ogryn’s)

Ghost Dumdum is also good

[naive burrow]

Does "Always Prepared" reset the Crucian Roulette Stacks?

Because i'm technically not reloading...

[austere pine]

yes. the tooltip is faulty i think

it doesn't reset on reload

and the first part can be misinterpreted

what it says it

no it can't. my b.

it doesn't stack infinitely. always just takes into consideration how many bullets you're away from max and gives you that much crit chance

[naive burrow]

ah...

[balmy flume]

Infernus ticks don't do much but it is always funny when it "awards" a boss kill to you because of the last fire tick being the damage that killed it

Come to think of it if Zealot tree has any fire upgrading nodes, those should apply to any Infernus weapons in squad coherency for max themes.

[agile forge]

Don't think it does

[austere pine]

i can has 1 mission where my teammate doesn't decide to immediately run it off the map?

[severe gale]

the only upgrade to fire is from the chastise ability, which only applies to fire inflicted by the zealot

[balmy flume]

Sad

Reminds me though I should at least check in on my Zealot and Psyker characters just to farm a wee bit more penance points from those classes...

[surreal mountain]

Blood fire shotgun Vet is way more fun than I thought it'd be

[radiant chasm]

which perk should i swap, and should it become flak or maniac

[austere pine]

swap infested? not even a real question

[radiant chasm]

wanted to double check

[austere pine]

unarmored and infested are always the perks that should go

[radiant chasm]

i know chsword has the worst carapace damage of the chainweapons

anyways

that doesn't answer the important bit of my question

[austere pine]

and it's a thing of preference. i like letting my chain sword's teeth sink into a mutie who i put focus target on and have a guaranteed kill

some people might like dealing with hordes of mixed unarmored (not a problem) and bruisers of both factions so they take flak

which you do struggle with more? getting swarmed by dreg ragers or not being able to finish off a mutie? or would you say you're more of a clear guy?

[austere pine]

worst damage of the chain weapons means it's still tied with power swords and mk4 (?) dueling sword

[radiant chasm]

i miss the BP

with both flak and dreg ragers with it unmodified

so im just deciding now

since you said preference

[austere pine]

you miss dreg rager BPs with flak perk?

or with maniac perk

[radiant chasm]

with neither

unmodified

from the original

[austere pine]

ah i getchu now

[radiant chasm]

i'll go maniac since I dont get the mutie oneshot without a headshot, and i'm dangerously close to it as well

scab ragers are just gonna have to be a problem for now

until i get enough money and mats for a new gamble attempt

[austere pine]

love me some gambling

[oblique totem]

Extra damage against infested. They've had it too good for too long

[austere pine]

makes me remember i haven't gambbled for pc4 in a long time

[radiant chasm]

i already melt through infest and I don't need it lol

i'm overkilling them hard

[austere pine]

the poxwalkers who can barely hold their weapon?

[oblique totem]

Yes

[radiant chasm]

also, i thought the carapace was worse than it was, it isn't that bad

[radiant chasm]

yes

i went around and tested it on every mob

[faint beacon]

Infested is just Hounds and walkers iirc and 90% of the time you’re one-shotting them regardless of the perk

[radiant chasm]

yee

[austere pine]

bosses also

[radiant chasm]

as said, i simply thought carapace was a worse than it actually is on chsword

[radiant chasm]

bosses are unyielding

[austere pine]

aren't they both that and that?

[radiant chasm]

no

even the pogryn is all unyielding

no infested armor

[austere pine]

at least plogryn and dh?

POGRYN

[radiant chasm]

nope

[austere pine]

it might also be the eye that pops up with the tendril objective

[radiant chasm]

i took off infested cause I was already overkilling poxwalkers by a large amount

[radiant chasm]

you one shot it anyways with a rev'd attack they are very squishy to melee

[balmy flume]

Penance farming here we come

[woeful galleon]

Slooowly trying my hand at damnation difficulty, now that I'm getting some better gear. So far i still die a bunch, but I'm pulling my weight, usually when we wipe it's because things went BAD real fast.

[royal quartz]

Myself if I die a bunch then I just play on lower difficulty until I am absolutely bored with it, then I go higher

[lilac kayak]

The key is "fake it till u make it"

[royal quartz]

That way you end up dying a lot, being basically afk until someone revives you and generally being detrimental to the team, and lowering the chances of mission success

[hearty panther]

then keep sucking

the only way you get better is if the game pressures you to do better

that means sometimes you lose

[balmy flume]

Commando drip penance farming complete
Now back to farming Auric runs with Officer (for Auric levels of mission completion penances - I did the normal Damnations first)

[mellow folio]

^ w the disconnects and not counting in progress missions I'm on my 3rd try lol

[agile forge]

Takes a mission or two maybe but it does click

You can't learn how to play damnation until you play damnation

But do make sure you can play heresy first etc

[royal quartz]

Wrong. There's another way.
Perfecting one difficulty and then moving to another.

[royal quartz]

You can have a MUCH better time on a higher difficulty after you master a lower one

[agile forge]

I'm a maso chist though

[frank ether]

brb let me perfect sedation real quick

[agile forge]

I have to split that word due to the censor :)

[somber axle]

at last

FINALLY done with Vet penances

[frank ether]

was it worth it

[lilac kayak]

What are u having problems dealing with?

specialist enemies? Dealing with a horde?

[frank ether]

I'm ok with a little bit of krak but I don't know if I'm okay with 500 kraks

[royal quartz]

I'm not having any problems.
And it's not about having problems.
It's about not having any problems before moving on.

[somber axle]

just grab grenadier for the +1 reserve krak, demo team for the 1 min nade regen and then throw kraks at literally anything you can

crushers, bulwarks, flak ragers, maulers, etc.

sorry demo stockpile

[hearty panther]

its a fine notion but getting good at heresy just means being good at heresy. the jump up will always be a jump and there's no reason not to take it whenever you want

[somber axle]

demo team is good too though if you're running into a lot of armour

[royal quartz]

I love kraks

[hearty panther]

you gotta relearn enemy hitpoints and shit so, your groove is always off

[royal quartz]

You also develop important habits and muscle memory

[hearty panther]

thats actually the problem

[lilac kayak]

yes i'm asking what problems u are having if any before damnation difficulty

[balmy flume]

No, you need to play Damnation to overcome the biggest hurdle:
Being able to survive when you match with a bad team in PUG.

[royal quartz]

Bolter being held back from being an amazing weapon because of its sights and long swap animation

[lilac kayak]

bolter aside, are u comfortable enough to handle heresy diff without too much issue?

[royal quartz]

my brother in Thor, I am doing damnation

and after that I want to try auric

[vapid nacelle]

What's this lil man do

[royal quartz]

this lil man do get sold in favor of a good weapon

[hearty panther]

depends what blessings you get

[vapid nacelle]

Lame.

[somber axle]

I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on tac axes tbh and some people have posted scoreboards with good damage/kills using them

but

if you have spare plasteel to burn

[vapid nacelle]

I'll hold onto him

[royal quartz]

tbh I've never bothered much with tacaxes

[royal quartz]

cleave and combos felt bad

[somber axle]

from the numbers cat guide

in pins

that's basically a perfect Mk II Tac Axe though if you can get the right perks/blessings

[hollow ibex]

that's a funni looking chart

[vapid nacelle]

Oh I just realized, I didn't get it on my vet I got it on my Psyker 💀

[somber axle]

compare the chart numbers cat wrote for the Mk II Tac Axe to Chainsword charts

[hearty panther]

taxes are knife adjacent, they're the crowd control version since sadly no uncanny strike means it'll never really compete

[royal quartz]

I wonder what tacaxe is better at than chaxe XII

[somber axle]

oh lemme share combat knife charts for comparison

[hearty panther]

they really do handle everything

[royal quartz]

I've never really tried knives

[somber axle]

there we go

[royal quartz]

apart from ogryn knives but ogryn is shit

[hollow ibex]

based

[somber axle]

knives have pretty bad horde clear but you'll feel like you're doing so much to clear hordes with a knife when other melee weapons will do it faster and better

[royal quartz]

They should've had put Squats into the game instead of Ogryns

[somber axle]

plus knives can 3 tap Crusher heads

[royal quartz]

idk about that

[vapid nacelle]

Ooh this is lovely, thank you

[royal quartz]

my chaxe xii can 1-tap special attack overhead ogryns

maulers

[lilac kayak]

@hoary horizon

[royal quartz]

and it's godly vs bosses

[somber axle]

Yeah Chainaxe XII is godly and with the melee attack speed boosts from Trench Fighter and Weapon Specialist you barely feel how slow it is

[royal quartz]

and it has a decent (but not amazing) horde clear

[hoary horizon]

What

[somber axle]

Chainaxe XII has exceptional special/elite clear, can 1HKO Crushers and with melee speed boosts fantastic horde clear imo

[royal quartz]

ye

[hoary horizon]

You think ogryb not fit? Why?

[royal quartz]

It's my main

[candid bridge]

Where are those charts from?

[royal quartz]

it's too easy to mistake ally ogryns for enemies

• ogryn weapons are mostly boring but also underperforming

[tiny summit]

Now only if it's sfx and feedback didn't feel like an unsatisfying wet noodle

[hoary horizon]

What? How?

[candid bridge]

Nvm I see

[hoary horizon]

How you play ogryn?

[somber axle]

You're welcome! It's from the guide in pins that numbers cat wrote. You'll know who I mean if you see them talk here. If you're ever curious about blessing/perks/melee weapon combos check the guide in pins and then use CTRL+F to find the weapon you want info on

[royal quartz]

Both ally ogryns and enemy ogryns are clad basically like stereotypical fallout assassin

[hoary horizon]

Okay no not bother. Is just wrong! Is easy to see allies

[somber axle]

wdym I go wild ripping and tearing into Daemonhosts

SPEAKING OF

funniest way to get Master of War for Veteran

[royal quartz]

I've played Ogryn mainly with knives and shield
out of all ranged weapons only the grenade launcher is any good

like

[tiny summit]

Oh I know. The weapon itself does fine. I find it's sfx cleaving and mulching through hordes some of the least satisfying

[somber axle]

one of my Ogryn squadmates accidentally aggroed the Daemonhost at the end of a very long dark hall and tbh I don't blame him because we were engaged with so many ragers/maulers amidst a horde that it's no surprise his stray Heavy Twinstubber shots made it mad

[royal quartz]

not the grenade launcher

[somber axle]

lobbed two kraks into the Daemonhost

[royal quartz]

the shotgun*

[somber axle]

went to TOWN

annihilated the Daemonhost

[vapid nacelle]

I see that, that's awesome! I'll be using that a lot lol

[royal quartz]

The 1st shotgun is the most precise weapon ogryn gets, afaik

[somber axle]

2 seconds later got Weapon Specialist penance done post-Daemonhost kill by popping a rager in the face

[tiny summit]

Ogryn weapons are goated

[royal quartz]

Ogryn weapons are ridiculously unreliable

[somber axle]

Chainaxe is my new fav weapon for the ability to just DELETE Daemonhosts as Vet

I want one on my Zealot

[royal quartz]

yeah, chainaxe xii pog

[wise fossil]

Thoughts from someone who never bothered with smoke and infiltrate before there were penances to grind for: infiltrate is a lot better than I thought, and smokes are a lot worse than I thought

[tiny summit]

Smokes are literally free "no shooting" walls

[wise fossil]

Crouching helps with the stubbers

[somber axle]

Smoke grenades are really funny when paired with Exe Stance but then most Vets do not like Exe Stance so

[tame lodge]

How do you get the conclusion that smokes are worse than you thought? What did you think before?

[royal quartz]

powersword VI is also fucking good if you get Power Cycler on it

[tall torrent]

I need help with rush 60 in one go penance on ogryn

It’s actually tilting how horrible this penance is

[wise fossil]

If smokes popped instantly in the same way the psyker's dome instantly comes up, they would be excellent. As is, the delay and the fact that they massively obscure player vision makes them niche. Not terrible, just niche

[tiny summit]

Gorgon is such a good stubber. Only ranged I don't like on ogryn are ripper guns because mag too small and too short range when I got all the good melee anyways. But it's dps is good

[dire olive]

Play high intensity damnation, wait for horde, charge. That's basically it

[tall torrent]

yes I tried, doesn't work

[tame lodge]

Bad news, Vigil Station Oblivium, Hi int, last event

[dire olive]

Do like smelter complex or hab dreyko

[lilac kayak]

@velvet slate

[tall torrent]

not going all the way to the end

[wise fossil]

I tried this build as well and found it extremely lacking. If you run the smokes + highlight specials setup with friends it could be good, but pub allies are so unreliable it's not worth it to bother to highlight things for them

[tall torrent]

smth early on

[tame lodge]

Yup, that's why bad news

[somber axle]

Hear me out on Ogryn weapons for a second

[velvet slate]

What I am doing here? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!

Buncha snivellers.

[dire olive]

Uh, refinery delta I guess gets kinda thick at the first med station

[tall torrent]

I tried auric high intensity multiple times and never got it because teammates always kill everything before I get to rush them

It just doesn’t work

[lilac kayak]

someone talkin smack about ogryns

[royal quartz]

Ogryn ranged weapons are basically melee weapons

[velvet slate]

He's not wrong though, stubbers run luck-based accuracy.

Not hot.

[royal quartz]

His starter shotgun is a better club than his starter club

[wise fossil]

Try high intensity when it pops up in non auric? Less reliable teammates maybe

[tame lodge]

Not sure how, but keep going

[old quail]

https://streamable.com/hfpwqr

i did this while getting the kraks penance

[dire olive]

Damn you would've loved the game I had to sweat on earlier because no one would kill anything

[tall torrent]

I’m doing 3 people private lobby farming for horde and it’s not working either

Actually tilted rn

[lilac kayak]

@velvet slate u agree?

[somber axle]

@royal quartz watch this Ogryn gameplay for me real quick pls

[velvet slate]

I'm not the shit take police in other chats.

[wise fossil]

This is why you run rock

[velvet slate]

Runts are entitled to their runts opinions.

If they understood ogryn, they'd be in #ogryn-class

'nuff said

[tame lodge]

Fair enough

[somber axle]

Ogryns are secretly the most powerful class in the game but most people don't realise that because of how much they meme

LOL

[wise fossil]

The suppression when infiltrate ends was a lot more important than I initially assumed. My main complaint is that the ability is mostly reactive in nature and less proactive

[royal quartz]

Wow.
Dumping most of your ammunition with non-stop P-B barrage to achieve the same results other classed could have using just melee weapons.
Nice.

[wise fossil]

Before this patch skullcrusher Ogryn was easily top tier. Way overtuned

It's still excellent

[somber axle]

He also ate a Mauler overhead AND a Crusher overhead and didn't go down and still wiped out everything LMFAO

name another class that can just keep up the heat while taking it and shrugging it off

[tiny summit]

Are we being purposely stupid?

[somber axle]

if you eat a Crusher overhead as anything but Zealot or Ogryn you're on your knees

[hoary horizon]

They just too dense...

[royal quartz]

Veteran with VoC + Duty and Honour

or Zealot

[hearty panther]

love the achlys

[royal quartz]

with the undying build

[somber axle]

Nah if you're a Vet with that and a Mauler/Crusher wombo combo you, you're on your knees

your gold toughness will eat the Mauler overhead, the Crusher will finish you off

[hoary horizon]

Of course remove ogryns. Look at what happens then

[somber axle]

your Voice of Command would not have been back in time

[tiny summit]

You can personally dislike ogryn, you can be unimpressed by ogryn, but you can also admit you know nothing about ogryn

[somber axle]

Ogryn #1

[royal quartz]

idk about crusher but I tanked 2 mauler hits with veteran

[hoary horizon]

Agreed

Ogryn bestest. Only with lil uns

[royal quartz]

and even if not, then

Zealot.

[dire olive]

You're telling me you don't use it actively to run into the gunner line and violate them in the emperor's name?

[wise fossil]

I mean maybe this guy has only ever tried Krourk stubbers. Those certainly have accuracy issues

[somber axle]

Depends on if it's a Mauler overhead, Mauler side swipe or a Mauler kick because all three of those attacks have different damage profiles and tbh you could eat kicks for days LOL

[tame lodge]

I'm more of a Gorgon myself, but damn does it feel like you're not running out of ammo with the Achlys

[tame lodge]

Lose all hp and a very powerful passive, not worth it

[tiny summit]

Krourk...another middle child

[wise fossil]

Oh I do, but if you don't take the add on damage it kinda just gives you the stealth. I can already run up to gunner packs just with good sliding

[somber axle]

I always appreciate Ogryns and share the ammo with good Gunluggers when I can

they put in a lot more heavy lifting than most people notice

T'augryn are another story

[wise fossil]

I'm just comparing it to zealot stealth which has free damage baked in to the ability

[somber axle]

if you run into a Gunlugger Ogryn allergic to using his melee weapon and trying to exclusively use his Twinstubber the whole mission while vaccuuming up ammo then you're in for a time and a half

[wise fossil]

I think infiltrate is really close to being excellent. It's already pretty great

[royal quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/brickbattlers-studio-brickbattlers-studio-ghibli-gus-fring-gus-fring-eating-gif-26430585

[dire olive]

I get it when it's just the gunners by themselves but when there's an ugly mixed horde and 3 flamethrowers in the way it definitely helps

[wise fossil]

Oh for sure. And I've used it like that even in the handful of games I played

Stealth is great. And the long duration is nice too

[royal quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-dying-meme-gif-19572677

Ogryns when more than one special show up at once

[somber axle]

that's very fair but Zealot stealth is a shorter duration so it encourages you to basically be WoW Rogue playstyle and take out big threats or vanish to safety while Vet stealth lasts longer and you can underhand shredder frags into a horde without breaking stealth then revive the team mate and still have 1-2 seconds of infiltrate stealth remaining after all that too + the Low Profile threat reduction for the next 10 seconds basically being a SECOND stealth on top of Infiltrate as long as you're next to a team mate

[balmy flume]

You know I am going to whine about one thing.
Whenever I am in PUGs, when they point out snipers and I try to counter snipe as a vet.
Nobody seems to have enough mind to provide close support as I try to do so.
(And then I get walloped by nearby zombies instead)

[tiny summit]

I like running Infil WS Laspistol mk10. It's like a laser deagle with WS stacks

[somber axle]

they're for two very different purposes

and if you're trying to use Vet stealth to backstab like a Zealot, it's not going to be as good at backstabbing as Shroud

but Vet stealth can do a lot of good utility things better than Shroud

[dire olive]

Bro is projecting hard

[royal quartz]

It's not projecting. It's experiencing.

[dire olive]

Your experience yeah

[wise fossil]

Yeah it all adds up to a nice ability overall, it just needs to be less points for the add ons

[slow spade]

Ogryn bad, Vet good 😎

[royal quartz]

tbh all classes expect ogryn are good

Which is a shame. I was really looking forward to maining ogryn when I bought the game lol

[tiny summit]

My experience is seeing 2 shovel ogryns 1 shotting all the armor in no ammo maelstrom

[tame lodge]

*Except

[somber axle]

tbh I agree but I also think it balances out Infiltrate because 10 second stealth with 10 second -90% threat on stealth break with 50% toughness damage reduction and 30% more damage on stealth break would be absolutely insane if it wasn't divided into separate talent nodes

[royal quartz]

I thought Ogryn was going to be like IB.

[somber axle]

the toughness damage reduction alone when paired with iron will and close order drill makes you insanely tanky

[tiny summit]

Again. You can personally dislike ogryn, you can be unimpressed by ogryn but you should just admit you don't know anything

[wise fossil]

Oh yeah I don't want all of it in one, just either the damage or maybe the threat reduction built into the main node

Like one less add on node overall

[royal quartz]

I don't dislike ogryn. I want to like ogryn, but his weapons are garbage.

[royal quartz]

Which is very good when you're playing with cooperative friends.

[somber axle]

I think if you put the damage buff on stealth break into either the -90% threat or the +50% toughness damage reduction you'd weight that particular node too highly over the other and make the other one borderline worthless to pick up for most players

a lot of people already love Overwatch for the +1 charge to Infiltrate

[tiny summit]

Sounds like a skill issue or horrible crafting luck but even then, you don't need to craft a good weapon in DT

[somber axle]

I think if you just ignore Overwatch it makes your options feel better

[wise fossil]

I would just put the damage increase node into the main ability tbh. Make it like 25% instead of 30%

[royal quartz]

It's not about their stats, but their nature.

Even IB could hunt specials reliably in V2.

[bitter turtle]

It needs to bake in one of the subnodes

[dire olive]

Bro has not rolled a good gauntlet

[tiny summit]

The weapons are good. Personally disliking their style, doesn't make them weak when it's some of the strongest shit.

[bitter turtle]

Right now it's actually equal in points to switch lanes to voc

Even if you go smoke and ms aura

[tame lodge]

Yeah, you don't know how to use Gorgon nor Achlys

[royal quartz]

I don't dislike their style.
I like being able to reliably hunt down specials.

[wise fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[dire olive]

Achlys stubber also has ridiculous pull out speed for special popping

[somber axle]

infiltrate 50% toughness damage reduction, iron will 50% toughness damage reduction when over 75% toughness and close order drill up to 33% more toughness damage reduction based on number of allies in coherency makes you absolutely crazy for eating things that even gold toughness voice of command can't outlast you on

[somber axle]

just back in overwatch into the ability tbh

1 min recharge, 2 charges

[royal quartz]

DR doesn't help too much against specials

[somber axle]

free up the node since most people grab it anyway

[somber axle]

yeah but it can let you eat a poxburster pop or a sniper shot or a mauler/crusher strike, etc.

[dire olive]

Also

[royal quartz]

Received damage is not the problem. Getting disabled is.

[somber axle]

if you got netted or pounced by a hound that TDR isn't going to matter

but against non-disablers it's very useful

[dire olive]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1164407829252280390/rok.gif?ex=65431a4c&is=6530a54c&hm=dba2fee18f05757b00e4c58e991516856eeb4e08514dc9bfb228d621a3545ae3&

[somber axle]

and you can stand out front with gunners and reapers unloading into you

and just eat it like the old launch days of how insanely overpowered Vet was

[royal quartz]

Yeah I just 1-tap those with my chaxe xii on my vet

[dire olive]

Imagine if ogryn could one shot

[somber axle]

depends on the context of a battlefield because sometimes running into the entire firing line of 10-12 gunners with 2-3 reapers and who knows how many non-elite shooters in an open room with little cover is asking to begin cosplaying shredded cheese

if you're in a tight hallway with good cover then sure slide sprinting at gunners to cut them down is good

[royal quartz]

Yeah I just shoot these with my accurate ranged weapon that can effectively engage targets at ranges above 30m on my vet.

[somber axle]

yeah and in that scenario all the TDR means you can just eat the entire firing line and fire back

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-uber-tf2-ubercharge-charge-gif-25046008

[royal quartz]

I find VoC sufficient for those scenarios

also kraks

[somber axle]

I find VoC terribly boring for anything other than chaining stagger into Daemonhosts/Plogryns/Burgles/Chaos Spawn tbh

and kraks can do good chain stagger AND good damage so like

[royal quartz]

I love VoC. It feels like IB's ult but with revive

[somber axle]

I never run VoC and was very bored doing the silly VoC penance

only other time I care about VoC is when running Medic build with Mk II Laspistol and my talents set to give the entire team lots of toughness regen

otherwise it's just sorta boring

I'd rather play Exe Stance mini-games seeing how long I can keep the buff going (plus the intensity of knowing that without VoC hand holding or Infiltrate back up plan I have to play perfectly with positioning, melee fundamentals and target priority or I die)

or Infiltrate for literally the million reasons why Infiltrate is fun

VoC is just shout on repeat and sometimes Vets will use it to push poxbursters

build the bad habit of push bursters with shout

and then eat a poxburster to the face when it is on CD

[hearty panther]

eh

if its up and the bursty's jumping, im gonna shout

its like the best use case for shout really

yea if youre up close to it, just push it

[somber axle]

I'd rather just melee swap and shove tbh

[hearty panther]

but for the team, that gold toughness

is gonna mitigate any possible bad outcome

[royal quartz]

I like VoC because I like being support + it's amazing in clutches

[somber axle]

and save VoC for when the team needs the toughness more in a dire situation for Medic build

[hearty panther]

but also if you shout before it dies, you get that sweet cdr

VoC is fkn stupid

[somber axle]

true

yeah it is LOL

it should probably be nerfed but even if you increased the CD 15 seconds it'd still be auto-pick for most Vets

[hearty panther]

it WAS 45 seconds ;-:

[somber axle]

make it a full minute

[hearty panther]

gold toughness just needs a rework

and until they know what that is there's nothing to do with VoC

im hoping its soon

my cope is that they already have an idea and could have put it out with this last patch, but a nerf to survivalist + voc in a single day would probably cause half of all vets to light themselves on fire

[tiny summit]

Definitely skill issue

[somber axle]

VoC is just silly because of the 30 sec CD full toughness restore +50 gold toughness with how gold toughness works when Vet can reduce the CD 6 sec every time they kill a special on the class arguably best suited to killing specials fast

[dire olive]

It's literally merc kruber though

[somber axle]

just sorta overpowered and becomes a crutch for many

[hearty panther]

15s gold toughness, 30s cooldown

the former is the real problem

with the latter its silly

[somber axle]

the uptime is insane with the 6 sec special kill CD reduction

you can have perma-uptime gold toughness if you're killing specials fast enough

[sharp epoch]

Vet needs the marksman build to actually not suck too if they nerf VoC

[tiny summit]

I remember when people were "Vet is ruined!" When the 100 over toughness was nerfed

[eternal venture]

Something really weird with gold toughness that I haven't seen anyone ever talk about is that even after your gold toughness breaks, you can still restore it

[dire olive]

I miss toughness + reload exec stance

[royal quartz]

I've played V2 for like 700+ hours and I don't think I've max lvl Kruber, he's so fucking boring lmao

[sharp epoch]

that should have been to side grades to marksman ability but its some weird targeting one for each enemy subtype

[royal quartz]

Perhaps I have, but I've played almost only FK

[somber axle]

I'm waiting for Fatshark to circle back around and give the CIAG the infamous Recon treatment just so I can come here and see the chat flying by superfast with Vets crawling out of the woodworks to whine and beg for the nerfs to be reversed

[royal quartz]

The weapons are inaccurate.
They have spread.
You cannot make them more accurate with skill.

[hearty panther]

that's intended. you don't 'gain' a # of gold toughness, you gain access to an extra # of toughness

[sharp epoch]

like idk why theres like 5 subnodes for marksman ability should just combine a few

[dire olive]

or make them base

[hearty panther]

thats why its so ridiculous for vet

[eternal venture]

Yeah it's absurd lol. I have no idea why it's designed this way

[sharp epoch]

thats how the zealot one works too

[dire olive]

make shooter outlines a base ability feature

[hearty panther]

15s on 30sec ability, vs. 10s for zealot on a 60s channeled 6.6s ult

[somber axle]

yeah exactly

nerf the uptime or nerf the CD

[eternal venture]

Infil needs its damage talent baked in, at least

[tiny summit]

Kickback kills easily. Achlys and Gorgon kills easily. Spread doesn't prevent you know...being able to control and aim

[eternal venture]

Overwatch and Low Profile are cool gameplay choices that should be talents, at least

[somber axle]

if you drop the gold toughness duration on VoC to 10 seconds instead you'd probably make it muuuuuch more balanced

[dire olive]

I can't wait for this so I can use the Colomnus again without feeling like I'm on crutches

[somber axle]

Crutch Infantry Autogun is what I will call it from now on thank you for the idea LMFAO

[eternal venture]

I'm guessing the gold toughness pool you get access to was intended to pad situations where you just get hit by everything all at once

so it doesn't instantly break and feel like crap

[midnight totem]

Oh hey another FK Kruber enjoyer

[tiny summit]

I think low profile should just be innate

[eternal venture]

I can't use Infil without Low Profile, and I'm inclined to agree

[tame lodge]

Ok, here's an Achlys crash course
Stop, brace and crouch
There, accurate bullet hose

[midnight totem]

Low profile or ambush should be innate

[tiny summit]

Hell 5s should be enough. It already restores your toughness.

[eternal venture]

but you also get people who don't want to dump aggro onto their team, so it's more of a choice for them

The funny thing about FK Kruber is that he's only gotten stronger over time

[somber axle]

I think that'd be hilarious and I am here for it. Bake it into the ability and then the 50% toughness damage reduction is just for when you're caught out solo or your entire squad is wiped so the 50% TDR is meant to help you clutch out difficult moments

[tiny summit]

I think the sneaky skill should be sneaky

[eternal venture]

Bret Sword FK staggers pretty much everything for days

I use hammer on him, personally

[midnight totem]

Personally, ambush should be innate. Then low profile or the toughness damage reduction by 50 percent are sidegrades to each other because they're both defensive

[royal quartz]

I didn't enjoy it.

[somber axle]

If I was a dev and I had my way it'd be 5 seconds for sure but every Vet relying on VoC would be angry and I'd get death threats in the mail LMFAO

[oblique totem]

We still on Voice of command?

[midnight totem]

Nevermind then. Heathen.

[royal quartz]

V2 Kruber has such fucking boring weapons that I'd rather play Ogryn.

[hearty panther]

a worthy sacrifice

id jsut be reworking the entire system

chorus and voc would be new things

idk what but none of it works right now

[somber axle]

let them send me death threats and I'll read them in front of a cozy fire before dropping them into it

[midnight totem]

I play fk Kruger with Bret longsword lol

[royal quartz]

bret longsword
ok normie

[dire olive]

spear and shield

[midnight totem]

Well before it dropped it was exe sword or hammer -shrug-

[tiny summit]

I like chorus but it does too much and blazing piety crit CDR is funny

[royal quartz]

iirc halberd was the only interesting weapon Kruber had, but it had awful combos

[eternal venture]

Halberd is really solid

It's just an awkward weapon at first

[royal quartz]

2h hammer was reliable, but at that point you're better off just playing bardin

[midnight totem]

Halberd was too easy

[oblique totem]

Bring out laslock rifles with some praetorian guard cosmetics.

[eternal venture]

FK is generally a low damage career though. You might have liked Merc more, or GK if you were willing to spend a little cash for him

[royal quartz]

I haven't tried Zealot's 2h hammers in DT yet. Are they like V2 2h hammers?

[eternal venture]

Crucis is

[midnight totem]

Merc was too easy

[tame lodge]

Only crucis

[eternal venture]

Ironhlem is not

Merc was stupid good on launch

Now Grail Knight is the too easy class

[royal quartz]

I tried merc several times but it was boring as fuck.
GK looked cringe and didn't seem particularly interesting either.

[eternal venture]

GK is very stupid

[royal quartz]

I sigh every time a GK joins my match in V2

[midnight totem]

GK is stupid strong

[eternal venture]

Being able to delete several chaos warriors at once roughly every 30 seconds pre-nerf was very dumb

He's still a dumb class lol

[midnight totem]

But I miss my ranged weapon

[eternal venture]

Yeah I actually don't like playing with GKs that much

[royal quartz]

That's how I feel playing Ogryn

[hearty panther]

you'll drink my free bottles of piss and you'll APPRECIATE IT

[midnight totem]

That's what rocks are for

[bitter turtle]

Imo

And this is just my opinion

Use bloodletter instead of sweep if you are concerned about revs

[oblique totem]

Bloodletter seems decently strong but I never used it

[royal quartz]

Whenever I played Kruber I felt like playing inferior bardin classes but with some more support - merc being slayer, FK being IB. Except Huntsman and RV being the other way around.

[oblique totem]

How are rend builds for vet?

[royal quartz]

Do you like erasing armored enemies? Because that's how you erase armored enemies

[oblique totem]

I do like doing that

[royal quartz]

I mean, I use chainaxe xii so

with the +10% rend talent

[oblique totem]

Yeah you're already there

[royal quartz]

I haven't bothered doing any more rend than that, though

[oblique totem]

How does brittleness work?

[royal quartz]

I can imagine it being nice for chainswords maybe?

[tiny summit]

You can apply the bleed and dodge out. Rev, hit, dodge and watch them bleed

[oblique totem]

Damage over time is king in other games

[radiant chasm]

no

🙂

thanks for your suggestion

[sleek garden]

wasnt the crowd control combo light heavy but they both came from the same side and looked the same

[bitter turtle]

Bloodletter basically gives 1shot rev BP on mauler and bulwark

[sleek garden]

you had to swing your screen to the left every attack to hit anyone

[royal quartz]

No idea. I have allergy to complex combos.

and I didn't play kruber much

[sleek garden]

light heavy light heavy is not complex

[bitter turtle]

And it makes it trivial to 1s mutie/rager without any specific perk

[oblique totem]

Well I'm sold

[radiant chasm]

yes but consider

i just go flak maniac cleave+rampage

cause i'm a zealot main

[bitter turtle]

Oh

Don't run bloodletter on zealot ya

[radiant chasm]

this is on my vet

[sleek garden]

do all maniacs take bonus melee damage

or just muties

[oblique totem]

Well here's your problem

[radiant chasm]

mutant takes extra melee damage, some weapons have weird maniac scalings

[bitter turtle]

Flamers take extra dmg too

[sleek garden]

i swear it takes 50 shots from a non revolver to kill a maniac

[radiant chasm]

like combat axes does more to maniac with lights and less with heavies

[oblique totem]

I'm kidding. Mostly.

[sleek garden]

but you run up and hit them with a light attack from a combat axe

yeah

thats weird isnt it

they take less damage from you chopping at their heads

[bitter turtle]

Thr bulwark hp buff makes it slightly harder to hit that BP now

[radiant chasm]

anyways, besides the scab rager BP

i'm not suffering

[sleek garden]

i guess the counterplay to a maniac is swinging like a maniac

[bitter turtle]

So I suggest flak elite or flak unyielding for perks on bloodletter chs

[radiant chasm]

and if i have buffs and marks up, i get it

[oblique totem]

I was gonna go flak/elite

That's my go-to

Used to be carapace elite but apparently flak elite has more applications

[tame lodge]

Oh, but what if I'm running "Bleed For The Emperor" and I'm roleplaying around it 👉👈

[bitter turtle]

I definitely wouldn't go carapace on chainsword

It's

Not really that good into crushers

Its ok

But not great

[oblique totem]

It took three rev attacks to take down a crusher

Which wasn't great

[bitter turtle]

Bloodletter let's you 2 Rev a crusher even without carapace

But it's still slow

Animation lock

[oblique totem]

Yeah, animation lock is brutal

[bitter turtle]

And it doesnt stagger the crusher well

I just try to avoid having to do it

[oblique totem]

He can just smack you while your blade is stuck in his chest

[tall torrent]

I finished gone bowling and can finally play ogryn like a normal person

[oblique totem]

Godspeed

[bitter turtle]

If you build it btw

I think savage sweep is better than rampage

As a solo blessing

From my testing

[oblique totem]

I'm always torn between savage sweep and rampage

[bitter turtle]

Compared to rampage+savage sweep against 50 poxwalkers

Rampage savage was 9 hits

Savage only was 12

Rampage only was 15

Idk if bruisers changes it though

[tame lodge]

Crusher buff made it extra hard

[oblique totem]

I need to do some testing

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message

Here was my test on all 3 blessing combos

[junior needle]

Wasn't rampage/shred the best setup due to the particulars of crit damage?

[bitter turtle]

I read something like that in zealot chat but I didn't try it

[oblique totem]

It's all about how they interact

[junior needle]

On chainswords specifically

the crit damage doesn't have falloff

Which is strange and possible an oversight

[oblique totem]

One of the things I like most about chainswords

[bitter turtle]

Its going to be hard to test shred though in the kind of test I did

Since well

Crits lol

Rng

[oblique totem]

Poxwalkers are made out of paper

[visual sandal]

does the passive deadshot perk work on the magnacore mk2 plasma gun?

[bitter turtle]

No

[visual sandal]

thanks

[vague smelt]

Need help, which one could be more usable if modified

@tall torrent

[tall torrent]

Neither is that great tbh

2nd one has better roll but worse dmg

Prob go 2nd

[oblique totem]

As I understand it, better rolls > better damage

[vague smelt]

Well that's the best I got

[oblique totem]

Since the rolls lend to better bonuses which are where the real utility comes from

[vague smelt]

So far with the second I one shot in the head everything except ragers

[oblique totem]

Armored or non armored?

[vague smelt]

Maniac

[oblique totem]

Well, there you go

Not a hellbore enjoyer myself but it seems you're doing alright for now. A few more tries might get you something better

[vague smelt]

Well

few more tries Spent 500K to get only 2 of these at best

[bitter turtle]

It's a mk2 right?

You could accept no respite

Weight of fire isn't that important

You need surgical though

1st one you'd have to accept unyielding perk which is eeeeh

[last parcel]

at least it makes for funny bayonet stabbing

[bitter turtle]

That's why i say no respite is ok

Before I'd actually recommend it over weight of fire for mk2

But nerfed 😔

Really hard to do bayonet focus when the cleave is totally crap now

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/kiryu-sad-yakuza0-dame-baka-gif-23481794

[vague smelt]

Well I tested it out

and Elite perk makes all of them die in one headshot with no crit except maulers and Crushers for obvious reasons

[radiant chasm]

damage score is important because it affects your base damage

as in things that affect your ADMs, since that is you damage into armor

like penetration

[vague smelt]

Well for me it does well

[somber axle]

Yesssss

The Mk II is my fav Helbore

So, so good

[vague smelt]

This hellbore has DMG dumped

[oblique totem]

I use autogun and make many bullet shoot very fast

[vague smelt]

courtesy of Brunt

[bitter turtle]

well

you have 10 stacks of marksman focus

lol

of course it fixes any dmg problems

[oblique totem]

Pretty sure I suppress as much as I kill

[vague smelt]

Ah right

Let me remove that

[bitter turtle]

most people have to run unarmored to get the dreg gunner oneshot

iirc at least

[vague smelt]

Ah I see

I saw that

Hmmm

I wonder

[last parcel]

i wonder how

i wonder why

[somber axle]

As long as it is hitting all the important break points I'd say it is fine

Any extra damage beyond what you needed to hit your breakpoints is a dump Stat anyway and only applies when attacking bosses

[bitter turtle]

its fine to need MF stacks, just its important to know that i think lul

and no, he clearly needs more damage

[vague smelt]

No but I need to know because I won't be always be having 10 Stacks of MF

Ok I need unarmored.

[bitter turtle]

as i mentioned and given their reaction, MF stacks are needed to hit bp for their weapon

[oblique totem]

I have a question.
What does break point mean?

[bitter turtle]

imagine you do 1000 dmg to an enemy

but their hp is 1200

[oblique totem]

Easy

[somber axle]

Yeah unarmoured is a very important perk on the weapon

You need that for sure

[bitter turtle]

it means you need 2 bullets to kill them

unless you hit their hp breakpoint

if you can boost your dmg to 1200

it suddenly becomes 1 bullet

[oblique totem]

Wow, that was succinct and helpful

Not expecting that here

I'm kidding.

You guys are great

[bitter turtle]

i also hate this meme somewhat just because you never know what will change

like

there is literally almost no real benefit for extra mobility stat

beyond 51

you wont notice anything

but dmg

the moment they adjust an enemy slightly

you might wish you had more dmg

see: bulwark last patch

lol

[somber axle]

it's a meme but it's a logical and true meme

[bitter turtle]

its not

[oblique totem]

DPS is king babyyy

[bitter turtle]

also

[somber axle]

if an enemy has 1200 HP and you do 1300 DMG that extra 100 DMG did not matter

[bitter turtle]

that only applies to weapons that do 1shot bps

if its a 2+shot

[somber axle]

if they suddenly adjust the enemy HP to 1300 HP in a patch then you are right

[bitter turtle]

extra damage will help against wounded enemies

practically speaking anyway

[somber axle]

if an enemy has 1200 max HP, a team mate did 400 DMG and you do 1300 DMG per shot that extra damage mattered even less

[bitter turtle]

almost every 1shot bp weapon has very strict requirements

[bitter turtle]

if its a 2shot bp, the difference between 600 and 800 can matter,is what im saying

[somber axle]

like this is just silliness because gamer brain big number go brrrr but like genuinely yeah if you are hitting your breakpoints properly then anything extra beyond it is just icing for boss DPS literally

[bitter turtle]

and im saying

practically speaking

name an actual 1shot bp weapon where the requirements are lax

cause most of them are not

revolver needs a strict loadout and has 4 different damage rolls that you want high

v7 is extremely strict

hb2 is strict, hb1 and 3 idk, but I imagine 3 at least can be strict for crushers

[somber axle]

tbh I only hyperfocus on a break point when first building a weapon then utterly forget what that breakpoint was much later because the weapon will do what I wanted it to do and I do not commit it to memory

[oblique totem]

I'm not precise enough to reliably say I'll ever be at a point where I think: "You know, I don't need all that damage."

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[somber axle]

Mk III does have strict breakpoints if you want to 1HKO Crushers

there's a chart shared earlier for it one sec

[umbral scaffold]

plasma

[bitter turtle]

i dont play plasma because its dirty and smelly but

[oblique totem]

June? Is that how you pronounce that?

[bitter turtle]

doesnt it have strict dreg gunner bps

idk

[umbral scaffold]

missing out
all the boys be rocking theses and stockings

😼