veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

and i acctually pick up plasteel

😔

[wanton dawn]

On the 2nd run

[bitter turtle]

i blame my dc

i outscore on my board

😔

[wanton dawn]

Also it was a "friendly dps competition", not "pick up with friend"

[umbral granite]

I see no one wants to acknowledge the Cadian flashlight...

Fair enough, it's a meme weapon.

[wanton dawn]

Granted, i was kinda memeing

Except i dont go for pickup anymore at all

[trim steppe]

good weapon, good roll, shame about the weakspot damage tho lol

[wanton dawn]

We dont have many lasgun enjoyer posting regularly

There is kejetok but he mostly post scoreboard

[trim steppe]

I want to be a lasgun enjoyer but alas I am not one

[wanton dawn]

I really dont enjoy playing them

[trim steppe]

I played the shit out of the XII when the game launched and before I got into damnation

I would play with a recon if Fatshark would quit shitting on them

[wanton dawn]

Same, but back then XII was A tier

(S was bolter and shredder once ppl figured out pinning)

[trim steppe]

XII, Bolter, Shredder, and Agri Brauto (still king 👑 )

Recon 6d was super good before they nerfed the infernus stacks, so like the first 3 months of the game

[wanton dawn]

I put bolter in low A rn. Shredder and XII are B i guess

C is for rapid fire recon

[terse pagoda]

So are power swords better to use over chainswords now?

[trim steppe]

Both are good, depends what you want to do

[wanton dawn]

Chsword were better than ps for like, 1 patch

Ps6 rn is a weapon whose only weakness is its mobility

[terse pagoda]

For a strictly crowd control melee

[wanton dawn]

And blessing dependency ig

[terse pagoda]

Power or chain

[trim steppe]

psword

[terse pagoda]

Alright nice

[junior needle]

iirc he picked up a small ammo pack, but that's much better than most. You can try to drag more ammo efficiency by playing well (and using the secret ammo efficiency fudging tech of deadshot with stam stacking) but the regular lasguns are still better at that.

In this game I had half my ammo pool leftover by the time it ended so I could've been more careless with my shots to pad my stats

I also was using a gooby build with ghost/infernus and onslaught and going mostly for body shots

[tiny summit]

With the state they are in right now I think the 7 is the best. The shitpost builds I've been doing with them, is fairly easy to not waste it all. Only ran dry in like the Carnival finale because everyone sat at the mouth of the opening again and I stayed back farther so we wouldn't have to deal with trappers or flamers

[junior needle]

Post ammo pickups

[tiny summit]

Going on a flight. Also Henry hovering ammo that gets wasted because no one else picked them up or at yellow isn't a negative

[junior needle]

Mhm, that’s what they all say

14 small ammo packs taken

Nobody else was gonna use them!

[tiny summit]

If I have the most ammo pickups because literally no one wanted to pick up ammo and I never got to yellow...can't say it counts

Or used enough ammo for anyone to think I was running dry

[tall torrent]

I kinda want to try exe stance HB1

[junior needle]

Thankfully ammo efficiency is objectively measurable for the most part

[junior needle]

But shocktrooper muddies it because you have to measure effective crit chance and account for pseudo randomness

[tiny summit]

Ew 2 points for stockpile. I just go Demo Team on my exe builds

[junior needle]

Something like dead shot uptime is impossible to accurately measure

[tall torrent]

If I use power sword instead of Rashad I can drop the 2 points for melee dmg and grab nice things like demo team and target down

But do I rly want to

[tiny summit]

Haven't look into all the details but the new mod from Ovenproof that's replacing their scoreboard. I know it can measure born leader

[tall torrent]

[tiny summit]

I thought you wanted to use helbore? Fuck your rashad

[tall torrent]

Well I need a melee that does both hordes & carapace well

[wanton dawn]

Ps it is

[tiny summit]

I just bring shovel

Also no shocktrooper? Remove yourself from the ammo economy

[wanton dawn]

Shocktropper on hb ? Seems like overinvestment

Ammo only matters at 0%

[tiny summit]

It's like always proccing because of surgical. I like shooting and having to reload less

[wanton dawn]

The only time i got to 0% recently was my plasma fire team when kickback ogryn and shredder zealot ate every single packs

Also ogryn realize 15min in that i dont have surv

[tiny summit]

[wanton dawn]

Too busy padding scoreboard ig

[tiny summit]

Sah where is mah ammoh?

[wanton dawn]

Idk, stop shooting at trash everywhere ?

I was honestly like : "boy he plays like i have surv"

[tiny summit]

'Eretic need killin', shouty said so.

[wanton dawn]

Then he got mad

[tiny summit]

[wanton dawn]

Despite both of us starting from 1min lobby

[tiny summit]

I think the only time I've ever been mad at someone's build options was seeing a recon psyker in a scab only, no ammo pickups maelstrom

[wanton dawn]

Why should i adjust to my mates if i have a kickback ogryn running everywhere and 2 shroudfield zealots ?

[radiant chasm]

No ammo maelstroms are the absolute test of whether a person is literate or not

[wanton dawn]

I dont get mad anymore on no ammo. Cuz i assume that i can carry it on my dmg alone

[tiny summit]

Either plasma vet, purgatus psyker or folding shovel ogryn I use for that modifier

[vernal harbor]

goo goo gaga

[low yacht]

Did they change plasma because it feels better now

[tiny summit]

Less of the vfx and sfx bug

[winter grove]

My condolences

[crimson pebble]

Which of the 2 knives are better or is it just a preference

[junior needle]

mk3 is objectively better for light spam, mk6 can get slightly better clear with heavy juggling but it's more effort for not much gain.

[agile forge]

On top of what Soldier 69 said, III also has better single-target stabs by a long way iirc

[junior needle]

yop

[pearl granite]

what blessing and perk should I have on kantrael shotgun? 😄

[trim hemlock]

No Respite and Fire Frenzy/Deathspitter/Full Bore are safe blessing bets

As for perks… there are options, as usual. Flak and Unarmoured can be good for handling shooter/gunner types of enemies, Maniac is decent for easier oneshot potential against Trappers and Flamers. Both Maniac and Flak will also make your life easier against Ragers - No Respite can contribute to generally end any enemy on Rager HP level in two shots.

[maiden vector]

Comrades, imagine

vet
skitari

[tiny summit]

Femboy
vet
skitari

[pearl granite]

thx

[agile forge]

Did they rename some blessings?

I'm seeing a hellbore on the melk store with a blessing called "Weight of Fire" which sounds a lot like what Onslaught did iirc

but I never used a hellbore so not sure

on that note is this worth it from melk?

[lyric dock]

Pretty decent

Onsalught is a bit overkill on MK2 because it has the fastest charge time of the Helbores

Replace Sprint Eff for Manaic and Falter for Surgical and you got yourself a solid rifle

[radiant compass]

Seems so. This is still on gameslantern

[agile forge]

actually nvm lmao turned out I had this one in my bags already

not worth taking the melkbux away from being able to get power cycler iv

[lyric dock]

[woeful ibex]

Hotfix?

[austere pine]

brunt hates me

[woeful ibex]

Thanks

[austere pine]

come get your mans, people

look at 3rd guy with scavenger, regular frag and no ult

seeing other people using the loose cannon female personality type for the veteran makes me feel like we stand a distinctly lower chance of actually winning

it's never a good sign

[tame lodge]

He got the drip though

[austere pine]

was a she, a loose cannon veteran

did karkall

[lyric dock]

Bright side on the time she is alive. You get more ammo than average

Iirc scaveger and Survivalist do stack

[tame lodge]

ahem

She got the drip though

[slow spade]

Nope

Got removed in the latest patch

Bots are now no longer strictly better than players

[austere pine]

this wasn't even a bot ;-;

[sand oracle]

You forget the biggest distinguishing feature of a bad player of all: Unironically using beta helmet

I've seen -ONE- person to /ever/ use the beta helmet that was actually good.

[austere pine]

played a vet with 3 zealots and dudes couldn't deal with a monstrosity, hordes, do objectives...

how even

[austere pine]

i'd have 0 idea if that a beta helmet without this information btw

but your point does kind of make sense

[agile forge]

That's the beta symbol

[sand oracle]

The idea is simple.

[austere pine]

brunt did good with this one

[sand oracle]

Every single helmet looks better aside from the free Warhammer event one that's blue, and if they don't have a better helmet - or the dignity to wear nothing... It's because they don't have anything, as they haven't the skill to earn it.

Not to mention the beta helmet was given out like candy, and if you were around for that and don't have something better after a whole year - there's an issue

[austere pine]

not everybody buys stuff from the store but even the basic purple krieger helm is better

[sand oracle]

The only outlier is Ogryn, because potentially - someone would want a helmet that isn't broken like their stock ones.... But it's rare.

[austere pine]

dumdum+deathspitter good on ciag?

[sand oracle]

All the free helmets are better, I'd argue. Even the Ogryn and Zealot ones which are kind of mid

[austere pine]

zealot ones are okay

weird

[sand oracle]

I just don't care for the gimp / repentia look

[austere pine]

i have no idea what they're supposed to do for the person wearing them aside from... distinguishing them from others a bit?

[sand oracle]

I get that they were going for a mix between Repentia and Sisters of Battle Militia / zealots .....

But .... Ehhhhhhhh?

[austere pine]

whereas psykers wear their psyker stuff and vets have utilitarian stuff

saddens me a bit that they intended for people to roleplay sisters indirectly but gave us no normal hairstyles

for repentias one could argue there's good ones but the only sisters ones we have are the danny devito lookin ones

[sand oracle]

Ungo Gablogian

[austere pine]

like

holup

[sand oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/frank-reynolds-danny-devito-iasip-its-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-frown-gif-17824208

Ungo Gablogian is that Danny 'character'

Or maybe it's Ongo

[austere pine]

this is saint celestine. an ex-sister of battle, now a living saint of the imperium. she's basically the head representative of the sisters, along with the one high lord of terra lady. she has regular long hair.

this is official artwork of a general sister of battle. a regular hairstyle one could see on people nowadays

it can't even be argued that the hairstyles we have in game are "for rejects only" because that's kinda bs. we were only freshly taken into jail at the start of the game and our characters didn't change their hairstyles + we eventually become respected members of the inquisition so we wouldn't be limited to what is allowed for penal battalions

[sand oracle]

Personally I despise* zealot, and think Sisters are only good for what they are, that being a power armored high quality unit (comparative to Guardsmen) army.

That said - If it's in the Imperium and it's not Guards, I don't give a damn about it at all

[austere pine]

why must we have stuff like this? there's no way this is a popular haircut in the system the game takes place in. there's 0 way

[sand oracle]

Warhammer > 40k, and in Fantasy my boys are Chaos Undivided Warriors of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms, and Kislev

That said - that doesn't translate well to 40k aside from different shades of 'Guards'

[austere pine]

"burn accident"-lookin-ass haircut

[sand oracle]

That is a regulation haircut for the army. All the 'quiffs', 'formal', and the 'fade' hairstyles are relatively regulation

As for the psycho ones, I have no idea.

[austere pine]

"5 year old little girl got her hands on an electric razor" looking-ass haircut

[sand oracle]

At that point it's RPing a regulation bootlicking penal soldier, or a criminally insane living weapon

[rare bough]

ur prisoner therefor must be ugly
Also 40k grimdark or something like that. That's the only explanation I've heard and it's supposed to suffice

[austere pine]

sisters are a fetish disguised as an army but the veil is very thin and i respect gw for it

[austere pine]

my previous point with the examples i gave demonstrates that in the grim darkness of the 42nd millenium, people still have haircuts we could see on the street today

[rare bough]

Yeah I know

[austere pine]

should mention that the only good hairstyle for female veterans is zola's hairstyle

[rare bough]

The excuse for why everyone in darktide is ugly is not very good.

[austere pine]

zola's hairstyle>>>>>>literally anything else

[lyric dock]

That sucks

[austere pine]

the facial ugliness is sortof the art direction which i get but the hairstyles are unforgivable in my eyes

[sand oracle]

Imagine looking ugly on purpose, couldn't be my gigachad 2 polygon count heathen ass

[austere pine]

i'd pay $20 just to gain access to regular hairstyles

[austere pine]

this is that old warhammer fantasy mmorpg, right?

[rare bough]

Do you even looksmaxx bro?

[austere pine]

i saw you post this in that one discord we shared and looked it up once

[sand oracle]

Yeah, it's my chosen

[austere pine]

looked cool but like a generic fantasy wow lookalike

[rare bough]

looks cool

[slow spade]

God I miss that old MMO

[sand oracle]

Very good game. Shitty PvE group content, probably some of the best PvP group content I've seen in an MMO in years

[slow spade]

I want to be a Witch Hunter executing Chaos again 😔

[sand oracle]

It's a game you play if you want to wake up, PvP for like 5 hours somewhere, log out, come back tomorrow and see if you won or lost

[slow spade]

Vermintide 🙏

[sand oracle]

Perpetual warfare games are very rare, and I cherish them

[slow spade]

Foxhole my beloved

[sand oracle]

and Warhammer Online is the only MMO that's ever done it

Which I respect the fuck out of

[austere pine]

all i want from a warhammer game is for it to be a tactical shooter and for it to include xenos

i really want to see how horrifying it is to face an eldar

[slow spade]

Ready or Not but with Arbites vs a cult UwU

[sand oracle]

I want a new Warhammer Online - but I wanna be a big fatass ogre

[austere pine]

not even ready or not

[sand oracle]

Hungermaxxing Mongol gymbro

[sand oracle]

?

[austere pine]

r/brandnewsentence

[slow spade]

An ogre so fat that even Greasus is impressed 🙏

[sand oracle]

I tried to do this but it blocked because apparently racism?

Is this a race thing?

[austere pine]

mongol

[sand oracle]

now*, rather

[austere pine]

it passed?

[slow spade]

Its basically calling someone subhuman

I don't like the censorship either

But its better than the Total War discord

[sand oracle]

Literally how? There are four archetypal humanoid ethnic branches

That's one of them

[rare bough]

Not anymore

[slow spade]

Which banned cursing for a Warhammer game

[sand oracle]

I'm literally one of them, because I have a lot of Turkic-Kazahk blood

[slow spade]

Because people will get offended

That's literally it

[sand oracle]

Ogres don't care about offense, only food

[slow spade]

Interestingly the people that would get offended are likely not even customers either

[sand oracle]

However, it is offensive if you say - refuse to let me eat you

[austere pine]

when you want to shoot fast but the game wants you to move fast

bruh what is this

[austere pine]

brand image

[sand oracle]

Walmart PPSH

[slow spade]

I mean if it wasn't for the ammo stat, it'd be pretty good

[austere pine]

if ammo and mobility were swapped, if only

[slow spade]

Be inconveniencing their primary customerbase 😎

[sand oracle]

I wouldn't call it 'inconvenience' ... It's just a weird decision

[austere pine]

when has that not happened though?

[slow spade]

True

[sand oracle]

Although, it's probably just a dumb automatic bot thing as opposed to a concious decision

[austere pine]

not inconvenience i wouldn't say

the w word for a sex worker?

wh to be specific

it blocked me from writing that once, which, yknow, fair enough

some words make sense but it telling you to not post that was weird

[slow spade]

Its certainly an inconvenience I can't call people what they are when Vets come in saying Recon is good

[austere pine]

nah that's a bit too far

[sand oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-gif-23501265

[slow spade]

Not far enough

Considering its documented in video how bad it is

[sand oracle]

I have certainly wanted to tear my hair out when I see certain weapons ever used.

[slow spade]

If you could blame it on ignorance, fair enough

[sand oracle]

But when I play shield Ogryn or psword Vet, it hardly matters what others do to throw

[slow spade]

With undeniable proof? You're getting the r-word

[austere pine]

i get a brain aneurysm anytime i see a zealot with a throwing knife

[sand oracle]

I'm gonna use a throwing knife to spite you

and use exclusively them

[austere pine]

gc

[slow spade]

At least the throwing knife has use cases 😔

Fucking nade spawns are so low in this game

[austere pine]

oh but the recon guns also do

as ordo stock

[slow spade]

True

[sand oracle]

Grenade spawns are rare? I wouldn't know because I either A. never use them with my Bulgryn that uses frag bomb, or B. use them so much I forget they're a resource because I'm using all the regen perks on Vet

[austere pine]

same here

[sand oracle]

If I'm using grenade on Ogryn, it's because there's a boss that I want to burst down with rumbler, taunt, and frag bomb; my team is dying, or actively dead and I have to clutch; or both

[austere pine]

i either have 0 grenades because i come across 15 maulers at the same time or i have 4 because i forgot they exist

[slow spade]

Doesn't change the fact grenade spawns are low lol

[balmy flume]

I always take the 1 grenade/min perk so…

[austere pine]

true

for good reason

if you can just grenade yourself through every other horde and elite group, the game loses its difficulty

[balmy flume]

implies we won’t get grenade launchers.
low key sad
😛

[slow spade]

Vengeance Launcher when?

I want my plasma grenade launcher

[austere pine]

i want plasma pistol ;-;

or a great karking chainaxe

[split sapphire]

Las cannon devestators when? Kinda like to see that one

Course that might be for Ogryn given the size of em'

[deep fable]

how many crushers will a charged plasma shot pen

[wanton dawn]

None

[deep fable]

looking in the psykhanium itll kill the scab gunner behind

so at least 1

[wanton dawn]

Putting 1 crusher after the other the 2nd take nothing. Its unreliable

Then again, game got hotfixed today so

Maybe need to try again

[quartz portal]

Okay, so I did some testing with the bolter:
The bolter can achieve a one shot (headshot) on both gunner types IF you have the following:

1. +25% Flak
2. +25% Unarmored
3. Superiority complex (bonus damage vs elites)
4. Ranged Weak spot perk (+30% bonus)
   Why is this an issue for me?
   To achieve the same, the revolver (the one that loads rounds individually; The MK2) can have:
5. No bonuses to Flak or unarmored
6. Weak spot perk
7. No Superiority complex
8. 70% for all damage related stats
9. No Damage modifying blessings

[midnight totem]

I'm almost positive it does need bonuses to unarmored

Also it's got some more ranged falloff

[wary lance]

helbore lasgun build?

[wanton dawn]

Bolter has better cover pen, open bulwark, suppression explosion and 3 times more ammo in the mag

Not saying its better but what are we comparing ?

[terse idol]

Well all I can say is the bolterr is better for mag dumping bosses.

Like, yes, the bolter needs extra work to kill gunners... you can also run exe and or surgical and it'll also just one shot em iirc

Crits will drop gunners, IF I RECALL I don't remember

and bolter gameplay, at least for vet is playing it like a DMR, and then mag dumping bosses

[wanton dawn]

You dont really magdump at all on vet

[quartz portal]

It's more so I'm bothered that it takes that much effort to achieve the oneshot

[thin flame]

This is the one I use with slight modifications, I use the sapper shovel for the premier kriegsman experience. https://darktide.gameslantern.com/bui...

But uh, the axe or a chain sword would probs be better.

Hopefully I can get melk to give me. Sapper shovel with thrust on it in the future...

[terse idol]

I just like pumping all damage buffs like exe and focus target to delete bosses 😌

[wanton dawn]

Also consider that bolter usually run pinning which means subsequent shot get up to 25% dmg bonud

[wanton dawn]

Ads bolter has innate crit bonus: magdumping give you shorter burst but lower dmg per ammo

[quartz portal]

I mean, IF I was doing a grey gear only, then the bolter wouldn't be my choice for Damnation

[radiant chasm]

yea bolter finesse buffs means it's damage table is a precision crit weapon

[terse idol]

I mean thankfully nobody is doing a gray gear run

Even a revolver would struggle because you don't get handcannon or surgical on a grey gear run

You REALLY wouldn't want a revolver for a grey gear run

[quartz portal]

Again, I'm just disappointed that a .75 caliber gyrojet rifle can't one shot the thing a revolver can.

[slow spade]

The Revolver is blessed by the Emperor

[terse idol]

More like blessed by my ass, smmmh

[slow spade]

Strongest forge-world product vs weakest Emperor-touched revolver

[tall torrent]

It’s a lower caliber version in darktide

Used by adeptus arbites

[chrome steppe]

You guys run deadshot with your bolter lol?

[trim hemlock]

Imagine running the Bolter without Deadshot

[chrome steppe]

Decided I was going to play the bolter for fun in auric, I somehow survived 2 matches. Want to see how I can make the build better.

I didn't take it because I haven't used it much before.

Need to make some changes.

[trim hemlock]

Do give it a try, especially with some stamina replenishment

Like Duck and Dive, or Focus Target upgrades

And/or small stamina regen delay node(s)

[chrome steppe]

It was absolutely delightful to see some enemies turn in to red mist.

[quartz portal]

That would explain the double stacked mag being somewhat thinner than expected.

[tall torrent]

It’s not a bad pick especially if u do the ads recoil reset tech

[chrome steppe]

I also noticed I feel like the bolter needs the immunity to range suppression. This things jumps around.

[sonic marlin]

ok goodbye helldivers forever, back to darktide, devs made the wrong choices

[terse idol]

Bruh

Are you complaining about railgun nerfs

Literally 3 things got nerfed this patch and alot of other things got buffed

WHY ARE YOU LEAVINH

[sonic marlin]

Nah it was expected from day 1, the problem is they didn't buff anything else properly, just nerf the good stuff so now everything is equally shit, also did you read the last article posted earlier? The person who balances stuff literally said we aren't meant to use our primaries to kill basically anything and that we should only rely on our strategems, this is the most shit take they could think of

No not a lot of stuff was buffed

[trim hemlock]

What of the power sword nerfs, though

Veterans will never recover from this

[sonic marlin]

I didn't even check that

how bad is it

[trim hemlock]

I’m jesting, don’t mind me

But there is a common notion that #veteran-class chat is consumed by the invasive thoughts of Veteran career being constantly nerfed by the devs

[terse idol]

What the fuck

Oh my god

I'm gonna cry

You gotta put the fucking meta talk to the side 🥹

[sonic marlin]

If none of the weapons I use can kill the bile titans that spawn every 30s what am I supposed to do lol

[junior needle]

"Alot" being a couple things, a few of which weren't even the worst performers on an objective basis

[sonic marlin]

Not even strategems are a guaranteed kill

[junior needle]

And the 3 things being the strongest things that while sizably better than their competition, weren't explicitly overpowered and more everything else was undertuned.

[foggy rune]

There were buffs and nerfs in the update today?

[junior needle]

Not for darktide

[terse idol]

Use a spear

That shit one shots Bile titans

You have 500kg eagle

You have the railcannon strike 🥹

[sonic marlin]

doesn't oneshot

[terse idol]

You have EAT's, the recoiless rifle a team with their own stratagem

Uh it puts them in their bleeding out state

[sonic marlin]

this shit doesn't oneshot either if it doesn't hit them directly most of the time lol, i had them survive so many times when it was just below them

[terse idol]

Well besides the railgun

Now you are forced to use the unsafe mode for armour pen

[terse idol]

Uh

L

The 110mm strike also deals with Bile titans

My brother in christ

Meta was a mistake

This was the biggest mistake in my liife

The challenging game is... CHALLENGING?!

[sonic marlin]

so now you have a spear equipped, which takes slot of backpack so you take 500kg bomb, maybe laser and some other eagle, now don't forget your actual primary and secondary weapons aren't designed to fight enemies as stated by the game balance guy, so what will you do?

[terse idol]

I mean

[sonic marlin]

run away forever from the hordes of enemies

[terse idol]

The weapons...a

[sonic marlin]

good gameplay

[terse idol]

The primary can still kill charf

What the fuck are you talking about chief

The breaker didn't even get a damage nerf

And it was one of the better primaries at dealing with chaff

The defender smg a good pick

The diligence still a good pick for automatons

The regular AR

[junior needle]

Everyone was using the unsafe mode before because it's free extra damage

[terse idol]

A good pick vs chaff

[terse idol]

Yeah now it's, required and you have to focus more on precision shots

[junior needle]

I heard that railgun shots now bounce off heavy armor though, not sure if that's with unsafe too

oh whoops

wrong quote

[terse idol]

You do need to put it on unsafe mode to have higher pen

It comes with medium on safe mode

[sonic marlin]

you have to overcharge it to like 90% so it doesn't bounce

[junior needle]

Yeesh

[terse idol]

Yeah its almost like

[junior needle]

So they just made it annoying to use

[terse idol]

A suppory weapon that doesn't have a backpack

Has a drawback

🥹

[junior needle]

Because it doesn't even have a percentage meter

[terse idol]

Well it's the colour

[sonic marlin]

also some people can't oneshot the little armored bugs on safe mode, its so random, sometimes it oneshots sometimes it doesn't

[terse idol]

Just hit it close to ted

Folks were doing that before anyways

Because the railgun one shot Bile totans

[umbral scaffold]

on PS5*

[junior needle]

I used the railguns on unsafe many times on bile titans

[terse idol]

But! Ayy we're in a different meta now

[junior needle]

It didn't one shot them

Not even once

Not in the head

not in the leg

not in the underbelly

[terse idol]

People figured out if you unsafe shot their head a certain time you could

I couldn't figure it out

[sonic marlin]

it was behind the jaw

[junior needle]

I tried it when it was about to spit

Still didn't work

[terse idol]

The spear one taps Bile titans in rhe head so we have options

You know a support weapon that has a backpack

And does more damage than the recoiless... has a role now

[junior needle]

There's some issues with needing to be host for things to work apparently

[terse idol]

I'm being cheeky, I've been arguing balance with folks for hours

[terse idol]

Weird because it's all servers

Helldivers ain't p2p

Peer to peer that is

[sonic marlin]

https://youtu.be/posV3kxD250?si=cSUV6a2LBn9qfH6g&t=260 before update, 4 oneshots in a row

[terse idol]

Lol

Yeah not balanced

I'm moving on homie

Quit helldivers if you want

Ima keep playing, and crushing my balls because light armour sounds even squishier noww

[junior needle]

I know, must be swedish coding at work

Apparently helldivers and darktide use the same discontinued swedish engine

[terse idol]

@junior needle I do think this game shines when you coordinate your teams loadout, it's better than everyone covers each other's bases

Instead of being one man armies suffice it to say

Which was rhe case with old railgun

[dark echo]

Think this is new as well

[midnight totem]

Ugh

Surrendered an easy win

Just disgusted with myself

[trim hemlock]

You are a couple of hours late with the news, soldier, but then I suppose not much of the things were shared in class channels

[junior needle]

huh

[last parcel]

meow

[languid dune]

That feeling when CoD has a more authentic looking Kasrkin skin

[visual island]

How is stealth vet is it worth giving a try

[junior needle]

Inferior to voc but arguably better than exe due to far more practical applications

Stealth as an archetype is very strong

But it's not common for it to be leveraged well by the player

[tall torrent]

Not very good pathing but the ability itself is ok

Hard to take frag + surv then infil and still have enough points left for things

[lyric dock]

You could ignore Surv for extra points, but then you have to basically hope you're not the lone vet in a squad

[midnight totem]

Just get good with aim and ammo usage

[lyric dock]

Preach that to the storm troopers

[wanton dawn]

How is auric after spawn fix ?

[terse idol]

That skin looks terrible.

😌

[tame lodge]

Most common path ends with Weapon Specialist

[junior needle]

I think it's the textures they did for all of them, maybe that's just how the game is but it looks plastic-y

Keystone is very much weapon dependent

[junior needle]

I'm cracked with revolver on my zealot and I still need survivalist just for the sheer amount of work I need to put in

Or rather, I need survivalist to not need to grab more ammo packs

[deep fable]

asking again

[midnight totem]

Granted, I absolutely think survivalist is needed in high int games

[deep fable]

can a charged plasma shot pen multiple crushers

[midnight totem]

Because of all the elites and especially gunners

I don't think so

[deep fable]

bro why ever use it then

[lyric dock]

Because in the amount of time it takes to use 1 charge shot. You can 3? normal shots

[junior needle]

one shot crushers

[deep fable]

thats my point yeah

[junior needle]

Hopefully my mods didn't bork with the update

[deep fable]

esl?

[junior needle]

Yeah charged shots aren't good right now

Probably just read it wrong

Happens to me on occasion

[lyric dock]

I have no issues with my mods

[junior needle]

We probably don't have the same mods though

[terse idol]

Yes

[lyric dock]

Fair nuff.

[junior needle]

Strangely, it seems to penetrate but do very little damage to the other crushers.

Only up to 2 extras though

[tame lodge]

True, still...

[deep fable]

damage is kinda low

if i aim heads i can 1 shot charge

im assuming theres complete spillover of at least the ok damage

[terse idol]

On damnation right? Cause you need like gets hot crit to do that much

[midnight totem]

Crushers too fat

[deep fable]

gimme a sex

sec fuck

[midnight totem]

The others are just flinching from the heat

Slanneshi infiltrator found

Burn him boys

[gleaming ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/golden-freddy-golden-freddy-jumpscare-golden-freddy-clapping-gif-26121877

[tame lodge]

[visual island]

I heard burn and my inner zealot came here

[junior needle]

I wonder what would happen

If I took this chainaxe 4

Into an auric game

[deep fable]

so 3597 on a non weakspot hit

[junior needle]

And only light attacked with it

[deep fable]

build

no idea what actual damage on the headshot was

but im assuming at least that bleeds over

[midnight totem]

I imagine quite a few heretics would be dead to a chainaxe

[deep fable]

@terse idol

[midnight totem]

The only question is

Would enough heretics be dead

[tame lodge]

If you're a zealot with martyrdom speed buff, it's a very "what is going on" moment

[deep fable]

shit out light attacks like nobodys business

[tame lodge]

I'm so glad they fixed the camera snapping

[white minnow]

cuz that's the impact explosion

if you spawn them inside each other at the exact location, they'll take more damage from being closer to the epicentre

[junior needle]

pog

[deep fable]

ok will the overkill damage from that headshot completely bleed over?

[junior needle]

The light attacks can't cleave and only damage things one at a time

[bold ibex]

Hey guys, i last played around october/november with that boss event thing and the couple weapon variants. What's been added recently?

[junior needle]

NOTHING

[white minnow]

nah, there's no overkill mechanic or anything like that, besides from the brutal momentum blessing on some melee weapons

[bold ibex]

wait, what? i know they break for christmas but it's been three months since then.

[white minnow]

carapace armour stops all finite cleave unless your weapon has the Perfect Strike or Sunder blessings

[junior needle]

Welcome to fatshark, they had to recover from their long swedish winter vacation

[bold ibex]

Do you think Fatshark understands what a "Live service" game is? They... they have to keep providing regular, consistent updates and new contents/events

Oh shit, there's only like peaks of 3k players now. Damn

[junior needle]

Nope. It might've just been a ploy to not get railed for having the full premium fomo shop with no earnable premium currency

[lyric dock]

Better than the state Payday 3 is

[junior needle]

If this wasn't a 40k game, I'd say odds are good it would've turned out like that

[bold ibex]

so what you're saying is i should just go buy helldivers 2

[junior needle]

That's also run by swedish devs so your luck will vary

I've seen some uh, interesting game design statements from the devs

[bold ibex]

Interesting? How so?

[midnight totem]

Wait which chain axe

[junior needle]

4

I said it was the 4 I'm pretty sure

[midnight totem]

Ah

That's the one with the strike down lights right?

[deep fable]

the legendary nordic work ethic

lol

[junior needle]

Let me try to find the screenshots. But one of the devs makes quite a few comments on reddit with iffy statements on weapon balancing

[bold ibex]

are you talking about the one where they were like 'kill count/damage doesn't mean a weapon is overpowered'? That's 100% true

[deep fable]

how do you go from vinland saga to 30 hour work weeks being draining jesus

lmfao

[junior needle]

Nope, haven't seen that one.

I didn't actually save it so I may not be able to find it easily

[bold ibex]

fair, i'll take your word for it. But personally, I don't worry too much about balance as much as... they seem intent to update and take care of their game, y'know?

Where as Fatshark sucks at balancing AND doesn't maintain their title

Doing one of the two already makes you way better

[midnight totem]

I hope we get a power sword or head hunter autogun skin tomorrow

I would kick Khorne himself in his brass nuts for a head hunter autogun skin

[junior needle]

Here's one. "Our vision is that you can eat shit in the highest difficulty unless you and multiple other people play perfectly with an ideal loadout"

[pearl granite]

weapon specialist build with this baby

[junior needle]

A big issue with the game is that a lot of the weapons just feel like absolute dog on higher difficulties, and the only ones that felt appropriate were nerfed

And then they didn't even fix the vast majority of underperformers

Still, it's substantially more attention to the game than fatshark gave in triple the time

Then there's the idea that you MUST rely on cooldowns to deal with anything

[bold ibex]

i don't know how any of that is iffy. The hardest difficulty should require ideal loadouts and comprehensive teamwork. And if a weapon 'feels good' at that level of difficulty, it's probably overpowered.

I'm not saying they handled balance perfectly or whatever (haven't played it yet) but it makes sense they would quickly tamp down overpowered tools before the player got used to them.

[junior needle]

When the game can easily throw like 5 chargers or bile titans

at once

[bold ibex]

Compare this to Darktide where Fatshark let Vet run free, ridiculously overpowered, for months and then after establishing that as the level of content... nerfed Vet into the ground, so bad, they had to do emergency buffs.

That felt a lot worse because people got used to that style of play and I think, generally, people would have preferred other classes be increased to that level

[lyric dock]

The good old days of post rework Vet. Nerfed for his sins

And then got pile drive even harder when they finally get their key stones

[tame lodge]

Hehe power sword goes swish swish

[bold ibex]

^Yeah. So I mean, to me, it seems less that they're trying to perfectly balance the game in a month from release to... keeping players from getting used to an overtuned experience and then getting butthurt when it gets ruined later down the line.

God the vet rework sucked so much.

[junior needle]

The hardest difficulty should require ideal loadouts and comprehensive teamwork.
IE take the meta loadout only and as he says, play "perfectly". This is despite them saying this in their patch note statement, and then not touching the host of underperformers.

And if a weapon 'feels good' at that level of difficulty, it's probably overpowered.
That's very much an assumption. It can feel appropriate for the challenge and not be "OP". Just like how a gun can feel like dogshit and not be "balanced"

[bold ibex]

You're missing that the problem here is the overperformers, not the underperformers. Overperformers are reducing difficulty and lowering expectations. Underperformers can be worked on later. You're being pretty unfair to expect them to adjust everything this quickly.

Nerfing overperforming options is reasonable as they have time to reevaulate and make tweaks. Otherwise, again, you end up with unintentional buffs and breaking the game.

We're talking about a game that came out... I checked, less than a month ago. There's not enough time for hollistic adjustments and balancing outside of knocking down the overperformers.

[midnight mortar]

Their entire basis of weapons "overperforming" was based on use rates.

[junior needle]

"The problem" is subjective. They perceive the problem to be weapons that make the higher difficulties not ball bustingly difficult (you can't simply outskill the game like in tide games). The player base perceives the problem to be that most weapons blow really hard and you can tell even on medium difficulties that they do.

They can feasibly do both, slightly touch on overperformers and also not ignore absolute dog weapons.

[midnight mortar]

They claimed to want to encourage players to use other weapons and loadouts.

[bold ibex]

Why do you keep assuming they will ignore 'absolute dog weapons'. Man. C'mon. We're talking about less than a month. There is just not time yet to go "Oh, yeah, they're ignoring all these problems!11!"

[midnight mortar]

Yet their strategy for doing was based on deincentivizing rather than incentivization.

[bold ibex]

In another month, two months, if really bad weapons are all really bad, then sure I'll agree but you're not there yet. Deincentivizing overpowered options is valid to avoid establishing that as the standard.

[midnight mortar]

They even outright state they think the other weapons are performing where they want them to be.

[junior needle]

Man, cmon, stop assuming I'm talking about the entirety of the games lifespan. They ignored them now, including guns that were massively worse than the guns they buffed.

[wanton dawn]

Is this hd2 discord ?

[junior needle]

That's what I'm talking about

[midnight mortar]

You're appealing to the unknown rather than an immediate result on what they chose to balance.

[junior needle]

There's nothing to discuss about darktide atm

[bold ibex]

You're equating the two. Not buffing things you feel need buffed doesn't mean other things didn't need a nerf. We saw in Darktide 2 what happens when they do these sort of ill-thought buffs. They go way crazy, people get attached to them, they nerf them months later and rework things, people are unhappy.

[wanton dawn]

Well, it got hotfixed

[junior needle]

In darktide 2?

[wanton dawn]

Granted i havent been able to play since last thursday so am getting itchy

[bold ibex]

Vet, some of the vet weapons, etc etc. Though it took them weeks to months to put in the nerfs. Maybe if they had hotfixed them it wouldn't have been so galling. Like they gave people enough time to spend months crafting and grinding weapons only to make them useless.

RIP Shredder Autopistol

[junior needle]

Darktide 2

We're still in darktide 1

[bold ibex]

oh true.

[junior needle]

Go back to your appropriate temporal placement

[bold ibex]

i forgot, that last patch was so amazing it felt like a whole new game!

[wanton dawn]

Shredder was always carried by pinning and everybody knew it would get shafted at some point

It was 100% uptime 100% power

[bold ibex]

there's a distinction between something being brought back down and... being nuked to awfulness. Fatshark does the latter, traditionally. In part, I think, to drive engagemnet

"Oi, look 'ere, we dun gotta make no new content if we just git 'em grindin' for stuff they already gots."

[junior needle]

The issue with that is that fatshark nerfed them and then left them in a relatively subpar state people are unhappy with, rather than nerf them and leave them in a good state.

[tame lodge]

Yeah, happens in the sister city of Tertium

[bold ibex]

Not entirely. Leaving them in a good state would've made it better but regardless of if it was or not, it wouldn't feel good because they had been overpowered for so long. That became the expectation for that gameplay. Where as if it was nerfed early and then adjusted to a good position, people wouldn't feel so put out.

Right now, vet is... fine. But I still think back regularly to when volleyfire reloaded boltors and wanting that experience. The one I had for months. Even if it wasn't balanced.

[junior needle]

Ciag right now is probably as strong as old autopistol

[bold ibex]

ciag? Which is that? I'm not familiar with the proper names tbh

[lyric dock]

Columbus Infantry Auto gun

One of the Vets Big used guns

[bold ibex]

Oh! Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

[junior needle]

A weapon can still feel good even if it's not as amazing as it once was. Take a look at the kickback for example, which was buffed, a bit OP, and then surgically nerfed and left in a still great state for a weapon.

I still used the weapon and felt good using it post nerf

Then there's taking old autopistol

gutting pinning

and doing nothing to it

[lyric dock]

I don't mine nerfs to a point, but I don't want to be nerfed to the point of being useless

[junior needle]

So now it's one of the worst guns in the game

Vet is fine largely because of overtuned weapons and survivalist/voc

[bold ibex]

I'm not saying they can't. But if something has been OP mechanically for a long time it will always feel worse than if it was nerfed in a more timely way because there's not attachment, that's all I'm saying here.

Though I think Darktide 2 (I'm keeping with this today) is way, way, way worse because of the investment involved. Unironically, my autopistol probably took me about.... fourty hours to roll a good one, upgrade and not get shit perks/blessings, and then find the pinning shot blessing.

Maybe there's alternatives but Fatshark just erased fourty hours of effort, you know?

[lyric dock]

I wonder how vet will be if those things foind themselves facing the nerf hammer

[junior needle]

That's an issue with fatshorks crafting system

[bold ibex]

(Both Darktide 2 and Fourty are figments of my imagination, yes)

[junior needle]

Of which people complain about constantly

[lyric dock]

Yep

Love getting a weapon with a good base rating. Good stat dispo

And watch Hadron brick the weapon

Throwing away all the resources you spent into it!

[bold ibex]

a more competent dev could keep this sort of crafting system, but on nerfs, give compensation or some system to let people salvage things. I'm still kind of dumbfounded that the weapon locks weren't reset with the massive buff/nerf/mechanic change.

So many of my perfect roll weapons were made... not good because I didn't have the ability to change the blessings anymore.

[junior needle]

A more competent, or less malicious dev. I'm sure as far as fatshark is concerned, massive weapon changes which invalidate a large portion of the playerbases effort just results in more """"""""""player retention"""""""""" from the crafting system.

[lyric dock]

Hell. If you improve the crafting system. Player Retention will jump up

It's strange we can freely change our skill build at any time for no cost

[junior needle]

Anyway, my primary gripe with the recent hd2 balancing is the lack of bringing underperformers up, even severe underperformers like the scythe.

[umbral scaffold]

new fucking content would be cool too

[bold ibex]

malicious, god, that is the perfect word for it. Fatshark has, unironically, contempt for the player. They don't respect our time, effort, money, or care. They're a shit developer kept afloat by latching onto established IPs and doing the adaptations decently.

[lyric dock]

But we have to jump through 50 hoops to change up our weapon(s)

[bold ibex]

this convo convinced me to buy it so i'm sure i'll agree with you before long, tbh.

[junior needle]

Don't see how, seemed like you were wanting to already

[terse idol]

I will agree, that the sythe is a little wack, we'll see fot future balance changes

Seems like the hd2 devs knows the stats and even considers player opinion abit so like ahh

I think the games got a long way to go

But I also feel like the railgun nerf was super well deserved

[umbral scaffold]

the studio behind helldivers 2 is smaller and doing a whole lot more work that was a funny fact i learned not too long ago

fatshark is nearly twice the size of the studio behind hd2

twice the size half the effort 😎

[terse idol]

Uh

That's pretty diengenuous suffice it to say 😌

[junior needle]

You could consider me paranoid about devs doing the "ignore shit weapons they just don't care about forever", but I attribute that to fatshark doing it and also riot games being shit about champion balance.

[sinful palm]

maybe they`ll cook us some 50 gb ass bomb update

[terse idol]

NOW AFTER watching balance insights

Some champions are purposefully kept weak

Like zed

[junior needle]

He's kept """""weak"""", there's a difference

[terse idol]

Because the balance team knows that in the hands of a competent player zed is unstoppable

[terse idol]

Well they literally said that

[junior needle]

Mhm

[terse idol]

Yuhh

[junior needle]

They keep "high skillcap champs" in line with that, but then even lower tier players can do absurd things with these champs by virtue of practice

Even if they're poor players outside of mechanical skill

I remember when they were refusing to nerf zed around the time he was released because he was "balanced on a razers edge" and had "three everests of skillcap"

[umbral scaffold]

nuhuh

[junior needle]

So I suppose that's a step in the right direction

But my issue was more that they left champions that were in no way good in any elo in the dumpster forever

[bold ibex]

"Yasuo's win rate went down by 0.5% because of an item nerf, so we buffed him in a hotfix"

[junior needle]

Because they didn't care enough to rework them or make them good

Oh yeah, it's a massive double standard too

The yasuo brothers will get pre-emptive buffs in the case of an item nerf

But other champions will get the riot special, where the champ gets nerfed and then the item gets nerfed

[bold ibex]

Dude, I was an Akali main. Like, OG Akali. 2k-3k games played on her. They just deleted the champion, stuck in a new one, overloaded her kit so she spent most of her time nerfed for pro-play. I'm still salty.

[junior needle]

I like old kayle and they butchered her too

New one feels like dog to play

[bold ibex]

Both characters had very simple kits but were incredibly difficult to play successfully because of clearcut weaknesses. But Riot has a mindvirus of "We need 'counterplay', so it's okay everyone is super overloaded and crazy as long as they aren't consistent"

[junior needle]

Kayle just had issues with janky animations and being slightly outdated in kit design

Also mobility creep

Playing her after the irelia and akali reworks was especially painful

But like, it would've actually felt better if they just made some minor changes to the old one

New one is a fundamentally flawed design

Where you have to be an active detriment to your team and get babied

[terse idol]

Well because the balance team is balancing for certain winrayes

[bold ibex]

Right. Yasuo needs to have a good win rate at all ELO because people play him and buy his skins. But less popular champions can stay dogshit in everything but pro play because who cares about them

[bold ibex]

God. I really miss when a lot of the skill was just... managing distances, and knowing your weaknesses, and making good decisions. But that's not flashy for esports. :<

[chrome steppe]

Horde clear on the Mark 6 knoif good?

Was thinking about trying to pair it with bolter to horde clear and reposition.

[junior needle]

Slightly better than lightspam on the 3 if you heavy juggle but only slightly. Mk3 is objectively better for light spam.

[chrome steppe]

Light attacks are just better on 3?

[junior needle]

Yes. Both knives have the same cleave values on lights, but the 3 has one attack in the chain that just does more damage.

[terse idol]

I mean kinda, do you think you're gonna feel a winrate difference from 0.5% to 1%?
Because he's still around what 55

[terse idol]

I mean the game has gotten complex but at least some of the new hero's aren't text books anymore with over loaded kits

Again, league became HUGE and thus the complexity also increased

We are just simply better players than people from season 1

Worse case the more mobility champs they release poppy will dominate in these metas

[bold ibex]

Yes, absolutely. A 1% swing is pretty substantial in overall champion power. Which is why Riot can go, "Oh no, Yasuo dropped slightly" (like this has actually happened, his win rate dropped by less than 1% because of an item change, so they hotfix buffed him) and he will shoot back up.

Going from 49% to 50% might not sound meaningful, but what that number effectively says is that champion is now winning hundreds of thousands more game than they were before. And if you onetrick, well, that's probably the difference between a promo or whatnot.

[terse idol]

Uh I mean gonna say it, if you one trick unless many of these patches are substantial it won't affect your neck of the woods because then it's speaking of the general player skill, which varies

And riot also has the task of needing to balance for ALL elos

The issue also being, it's tough for riot and I'm taking this from what I learned watching phreak explain the balance is that naturally some of the "worst" hero's are kept bad because well otherwise they might dominate or create horrible gameplay loops, in a game that in theory wants you to win 50% of your games there will be champs that aren't on the line of that flat 50% because I don't think it's possible at all to make all champions 50% win rate

Oh second, at least for one source

Yassuo is at a 48%

[bold ibex]

Ah yes, I didn't realize the champion stats and interactions stopped mattering when a player uses them a lot. No. That's not how it works. "General player skill" doesn't change that a character does more or less damage now, or won't survive with a little bit of HP now. They're actually going to be impacted /more/ because they play the character more, so a 1-2% change in win rate will actually be seen rather than a one-off counterpick.

Also, my example of Yassuo was a thing that actually happened. His current winrate, even if it is 48%, doesn't change what happened. I'm not gonna waste time trying to argue how win rates are calculated (Like he as a 50% in emerald and diamond).

[terse idol]

So I mean like where would you want those winrates?

[bold ibex]

The context of the original conversation was that Riot cares about some champions win rates being reasonable, such as Yasuo who received hotfixes from a slight item nerf, and doesn't care about other champions being dogshit outside of proplay or being allowed to stay purposefully bad because they're annoying to play against.

[midnight totem]

0

Destroy league of legends

It is a cancer

[bold ibex]

I'm not sure what you're even arguing for tbh

[midnight totem]

Keep Ahri though, I like her she's cute

[tame lodge]

They got him

[junior needle]

Some are left undertuned just because the devs literally don't care about them, and only get buffs when one of the devs personally decides to try and do something about them

Or left overtuned because there's one dev that really, really likes them (cassio)

[terse idol]

I mean, I'm arguing that I think the whole balance discussion is a little silly, 50% is by in large reasonable

Outliers like in some patches where a champs win rate spikes to 60% and then needs to get hammered is more normal

Also I do believe that riot brings certain hero's up during certain seasons

[bold ibex]

...no one said 50% isn't reasonable. We mentioned specific champions that we played that experienced prolonged periods of much lower win rates. If you're gonna step in to argue maybe read what we're talking about first

[junior needle]

In a vacuum yes, but some strong champs are simply allowed to sit at 52-54% winrate and not get nerfed while others get slapped if they hit 51.5

Like riven being allowed to have a 54% winrate and a 15% playrate for multiple patches

But yorick has a lower winrate and playrate

And then gets nerfed immediatelyt

[bold ibex]

I think you even mentioned Zed as an example where Riot is like "Yeah, he's underpowered, but we can't buff him because bad players would get mad and we don't wanna bother changing his kit so he can be buffed"

His win rate isn't horrific but it's one of the few cases where they just spell out what they do on record

[terse idol]

I mean

Zed is one of the cases where he is indeed isn't buffed

[bold ibex]

Fucking esports. Riven is allowed to be OP because she has 'counterplay' and gets cool hightlight videos. Yorick doesn't have 'counterplay' and he's boring to watch so if people play him, they stop that.

[terse idol]

At a 49%

Yorrick doesn't have counter play 😌

My man builds lethality which mind you is broken this patch

And then slaps you once with 4 ghouls

And you lose more than half of your HP

[bold ibex]

You seem to keep trying to bring up win rates to argue against things that have actually happened. Please consider another alternative. There have been periods where Zed has underperformed and Rioters outright said "We're not buffing him because he's annoying"

Nothing you say will change or add to the fact that Riot actually behaves and balances this way.

[terse idol]

Like no wonder he's getting nerfs rn eh?

[terse idol]

Yes periods where zed under performs

But he can't get buffed because pro players have a field day with him

Faker is the whole meme

Of why Zed is the way be is brotherrr

And yes

You're right with that statement

[bold ibex]

No. You are not listening. That is not what Riot said. Riot August said, specifically, Zed can't be buffed because he is not fun for low ELO players to play against.

[terse idol]

We cannot buff zed because he's annoying

He can rapidly get kills and one shot champs, had iframes has mobility

[terse idol]

Yes

Phreak said something along the same lines in one of his balance discussion patches

But zed buffed is also oppressive at high elo

So it's the issue that if he's stronger, low elo is gonna suffer more

And high elo is gonna be zed dominated

I do agree with August

[bold ibex]

Okay. I'm not gonna continue because, well, the original conversation ended and you keep trying to argue with current or temporary stats when we were talking about Riot's general balance philosophy and how it screws specific champions.

You have a good one.

[terse idol]

How am I not talking about riots balance philosophy

I mean I guess I'm missing something so

Regardless ain't a big deal, I'll move on

[pastel geode]

Oh god, did the helldivers recruit so many from this place it turned into a league channel?

[slow spade]

Helldivers is just a normal 40k warfront

[lyric dock]

And DRG is what supplies the Imperium with materials for the war effort

[dreamy scaffold]

helldivers is just, average tyranid defense, and dark mechanicum

i wouldnt be surprised if someone somehow made the entirety of the helldivers forces into one guardsmen regiment

[lyric dock]

Some insane SOBs dealing with all that with little to no backup

[junior needle]

Helldivers is absolutely unmoddable due to the anticheat and always online factor

So we won't be getting any conversion mods

[lyric dock]

The Anticheat is the only thing keeping me from touching the game

[serene sage]

I see HD2 patch has brought people back to DT ahahaha

[sonic marlin]

you think?

[serene sage]

It seemed I missed the League discussion as well 😔

[slow spade]

League and HD2 are just different fronts of the Imperium's wars

[winter grove]

What happened

[cedar horizon]

HD2 had a balance patch and with it nerfed the Meta items which pretty much was seen as obligatory on higher difficulties. they did buff some other weapons but most were left untouched.
so now people are fuming, complaining that it's unplayable

[winter grove]

Lol

[cedar horizon]

it seems like people have forgotten that soon(ish) we will get the mechs and that will surely shift the Meta.

[winter grove]

We are finally issued the vehicles from HD1

Yippie

[cedar horizon]

but yeah, if people can't run around and be a jack-of-all-trades it's unplayable.
it's not like it's a game meant to be played with teamwork at it's core.
meaning that each member in the group should be able to help one another.

[winter grove]

Many people wanna clutch the games and carry them like knife zealots

And more or less become a detriment

Just like knife zealots

[cedar horizon]

although I can understand that when playing with randoms that might falter.
but still.. people are taking nerfs too seriously.
there are even those who wants to refund the game, with 100+ hours into it

[winter grove]

Now I wonder what are the builds people run that are mostly detrimental to team but good for playing alone

Like knife zealots most of the time

That's like rule of thumb

[raw steppe]

this is what happens wheny our game gets too popular lol

people with extremely shitty opinions start having extremely shitty opinions

[cedar horizon]

well, before the balance update it was a rapid-fire shotgun with great range to boot, a railgun that could take down anything heavy and a shieldpack that baiscally made one immune to knockbacks, stuns and have protection to damage, that also regenerated once it ran out of shield-hp.

[serene sage]

the nerfs were deserved
BUT too many weapons are still slightly underpowered
I'm not angry about the patch, i'm just disappointed.

[raw steppe]

similar to how when fatshark nerfed power sword

eh i think they could do a balance pass

on game difficulty

i think they need to class enemies out

to trash vs special vs armor

cuz right now it's just trash vs armor

[cedar horizon]

I never really felt that Power Sword nerf like so many others seems to have.
I kept using the Power Sword and didn't really feel much of a difference

[raw steppe]

so obviously people would bring anti-armor

there needs to be some reason to bring other weapons

[frank basin]

I look on Reddit some people discuss about complainer about meta nerf

And some steam forum

I meant HD2

[cedar horizon]

but when they boosted the Chainsword I used that more since, c'mon, it's a chainsword. it goes Wrrrrrrr!.
But I've been using the PSword again with my latest build.
and this has been a long time now.

[serene sage]

for HD2 there is nuance in this statement but idc about the nerfs, in fact, i'm very okay actually
i'm sorely disappointed about the many many things that are not addressed though

[frank basin]

Like armor rating is broken?

[winter grove]

PS got nerfed?

Sorry I've been playing DT since patch 15

Like really recently

[serene sage]

a long long time ago, old news haha

[frank basin]

It is you means thing dev not address is armor rating?

[serene sage]

more just like the breakpoints for many anti tank weapons are horrible

[frank basin]

I see

[serene sage]

oh idc about that either

[cedar horizon]

I would've liked to see some more buffs to other weapons.
the Breaker was the go-to on higher diffs because the time-to-kill was needed for all the enemies so you wouldn't get swarmed, which one still could be.

most weapons now just doesn't have that power to clear enemies which makes people bummed, to say the least.

[winter grove]

500KG Eagle

[raw steppe]

eh i dont mind that enemies can swarm you lol

[cedar horizon]

I'd love to use other weapons, mix and match. and I have tried since the patch and I dunno if I'm just that bad or not, but it takes too long on most weapons to kill everything comming at you.

[raw steppe]

smart usage of kiting

and smart usage of strategems

i think solve that issue

[winter grove]

Isn't that whole point of coop shooters?

[raw steppe]

yes lol

[winter grove]

Kill many enemies as a team

[serene sage]

I really really like the fact that they are sharing dev blog though (though I disagree with the some of what being said). They should keep it up though. Transparency is good and their philosophy is interesting.
I wish FS does the same though tough luck.

[raw steppe]

so idk why ppl complaining

that there's a lot of enemies

[cedar horizon]

mm.. it's "fun" when people stand their ground on Helldive against bugbreach after bugbreach instead of running and loosing the aggro

[raw steppe]

low intensity is very unfun

[winter grove]

That's how L4D was

[cedar horizon]

sometimes it's best to not fight

[winter grove]

DRG, VT2, DT

[serene sage]

I think most are complaining there are too many chargers specifically, which they are ... not wrong lmao

[winter grove]

L4D2

[raw steppe]

i think if you want to do high difficulty you should have to do what's required to do it lol

otherwise just lower it

it's nbd to play on lower difficulty

[cedar horizon]

that's where the "issue" comes tho.
at least when playing with randoms.
there are not many who do that whole "teamplay" and many go out doing their own thing, finding points of interests or whatsnot.

but perhaps after the update, when people realise that they can't do that anymore, at least not as efficiently, people will start playing more as a team.

[serene sage]

also Dune gives me heavy 40k vibe

[frank basin]

I literally watched two parts

[serene sage]

Dune Part Two is that good

[frank basin]

It does feel like early 40k

[serene sage]

probably best i've seen in recent memory

[frank basin]

Guns obsoleted by shield and shield can be a nuke react from Lasgun

Lasgun is literally they called in dune

[frank basin]

Idk try watch by yourself

Paul main character just changed himself after dream he predicts

[proud marsh]

40k rips so hard from dune

navigators and their houses as a whole concept are taken directly from dune

[serene sage]

yeah

to be fair the movie also cuts the navigation part

but spice basically makes psyker

which is how i interpreted it

[proud marsh]

it's gross

yeah sorta

[serene sage]

worm poop

yikes

[proud marsh]

Mentats basically become supercomputers able to calculate paths that need to be taken

to navigate safely

[frank basin]

It just drug made from worm doodoo

[proud marsh]

yeah they call it 'spice'

but we know the TRUTH

it's POOP

[serene sage]

to be fair, i personally enjoy yeast poop once in a while irl

so i don't blame them

though calling them spice makes me think they make some sort of curry out of it haha

[frank basin]

The main character sensitive to worm poop

[serene sage]

he got prescience from drinking worm piss

and a tear???

[frank basin]

Oh btw they said spices enchance your life span

[serene sage]

apparently

[frank basin]

Which is weird

[serene sage]

i mean it's just flavor haha

[winter grove]

Eat shit live longer

[serene sage]

let's not pretend we don't know what corpsestarch are made of

hint: it's in the name

[frank basin]

Same whale poop can turn into perfumes

[frank basin]

Adaptus Mechanicus turn dead men into food paste

Maggos said it

[tame lodge]

Cannibalism on a shiny packet

[topaz cedar]

is this good

[odd sparrow]

its ok, not having flak/maniac hurts tho

[frank basin]

Little bit tired from flak maniac

Is everywhere now

[hollow ibex]

Rip stopping power but prob doesn’t matter as much

And yah lack of at flakiac

[topaz cedar]

i inspected the damage on stop power no dif

i can put flak on it im a gun psyker

[torpid pier]

power cycler IV!!!!!!!! If this is a dream I hope I won't wake up at least for couple of games with it

[hollow ibex]

Yah prob want flak on it

[torpid pier]

Oh i am taking that blessing

too precious to leave it on this

[hollow ibex]

Sorry was talking to the guy with the laspistol lol

[torpid pier]

i got like 4 legendary Pswords at this point

oh haha

[hollow ibex]

Yeah take the blessing and run

[tall torrent]

Low stopping power

[raw steppe]

bad

[topaz cedar]

you lose like 30 damage

[tall torrent]

Yea that kinda matters for breakpoints and stuff

[bitter turtle]

unarmored isnt ideal
low stopping power

[rigid nova]

Is a shotgun chainsaw sword pair good?

[hollow ibex]

not meta but totally fine

[radiant chasm]

stopping power is all your armor effectiveness besides unarmored/infested, so it's pretty important

basically important for maniac, unyielding, and flak, doesn't change carapace (0.01-0.01) range

[tame lodge]

I dedicated a lot of time into the melee aspect, I will not throw shade at anyone, breath, repeat

But the karking vet with a recon

Breath

[radiant chasm]

gonna have a bit of a slow down into carapace, since chswords are the worst chains for carapce and shotgun can't do much either, but otherwise it's really grea.

[midnight totem]

I think I rolled a near perfect combat axe

[torpid pier]

God damn going from assault chain sword to Psword with power cycler IV is like upgrading from laptop to PC with dual monitors

I see Veteran in a new light now

[radiant chasm]

what was your old chsword

cause chswords are pretty insane rn

[torpid pier]

i mainly used it for horde clearing

vrak 7 for elites,specials,disablers

and Krak for Crushers and bulwarks

now I just have Psword basically replacing the Krak and assault chainsword

Now i just throw shredders when overwhelmed and have fun

life never been this easy before

[thorn lark]

yeah problably, this one on my zealot cannot os the unarmored bruisers... (with no stacks), i feel like the 10% and 5% nodes would make a difference here

[thorn lark]

secret tech hehehe

[bitter turtle]

chsword isnt going to compete with psword on vet

[midnight totem]

dang, 5 more unarmored and I could have one shot headshot scab bruisers

you guys think brutal momentum 4 can cover the gap?

[bitter turtle]

just switch it to headtaker

and use headtaker stacks

Bm4 is not worth

2.5% weakpoint dmg is literally like maybe 3 more dmg lol

[midnight totem]

guess so

[bitter turtle]

deci is very meh

reset on miss

[midnight totem]

I actually hit the point with deci

[bitter turtle]

the problem isnt the power

for decimator

its that if you miss

it resets to 0

headtaker is trivial to maintain at max stack

[midnight totem]

true

deci isn't that hard to maintain either in a horde

just don't miss

xD

[bitter turtle]

maybe you're more of a god gamer than me but I still miss sometimes

and id rather not have my bp disappear bc i missed once

[midnight totem]

I have one talent point left

I can easily get the breakpoint with it

was thinking about saving it, but it wouldn't have gone anywhere else meaningful anyway

[fierce steeple]

we gettin scion gear tomorrow?

[bitter turtle]

well

up to you

m suggestion is deci -> HT

bm4 does quite literally nothing

like maybe 2 or 3 points of dmg more

you can upgrade unarmored but i think you will get a more consistent dmg boost across everything with ht over deci

stacks are needed to hit bp on other enemies

so i dont like having them drop

[midnight totem]

thats fair

I'm going to test it out as it is for now

its going on my barely-acceptable recon build anyway

[woeful ibex]

Soldiers, Auric loot and some Modifications from Hadron

[torpid pier]

Psword is fine with low Finesse? I feel that would be huge dps drop right?

[woeful ibex]

Not sure

I always compensate it with Damage dealing perks and Blessings

[torpid pier]

I mean if u make it work and hit the breakpoints that u wanna hit then all the power to ya

[radiant chasm]

Finesse mostly matters for the attack speed on psword, crit and weakspot damage isnt too important, but the attack speed is

Since that also covers the animation speed

[woeful ibex]

ah ok

[raw steppe]

Not acceptable

You really dont want anything less than optimal rolls

On something thay affects how the weapon feels

Things such as low charge rate, finesse; will just feel bad

[delicate ibex]

Is Veteran the weakest when it comes to getting mauled by poxwalkers?

[final stag]

I'd say psyker

[delicate ibex]

Veteran feels harder for me. Compared to Ogryn's beefy-ness and the Zealot's cool dodges, and the Psyker's also cool dodges, I can't find anything for Vet it feels

I mean It has made me better at pushing and dodging, but it still sucks

[rigid pilot]

If you spec for melee with stamina Regen delay nodes it's pretty good

[final stag]

Vet on lower levels has a struggle but if you spec on VoC or Stealth he has some really great survivability

Psyker in my opinion is the most glass cannon

[delicate ibex]

Solid. I'll check em out

[hybrid torrent]

Hadron didn't screw me over for once

[final stag]

God roll
Now spray and pray into heretics.

[woeful ibex]

Are Braced Autoguns worth it?

I skipped them because use ADS

[tiny summit]

Vet has great weapons and great toughness regen. Leveling through I would suggest the right side at the top for Out for Blood since its just toughness on any kill even ranged. Shovels are great stagger and dmg. Power Swords are godly with PC4. Vets just don't get to be as ignorant with taking dmg as Ogryns or Zealots

[final stag]

I love my vet

Bonking with the shovel never feels so great

[tiny summit]

Yes. Hipfire on them is pretty generous.

[woeful ibex]

Which one is the "Best"?

[final stag]

Especially the agrippina

[hybrid torrent]

Plot twist: its for my zealot. But I like the gunplay with zealot over veteran right now. Dance of Death and Blazing Piety really peaks braced guns in general.

[final stag]

Dang. I love braced autoguns on my commando vet

Or revolver
Depends on the flavor

[tiny summit]

Agri is the hardest hitting and shoot through ogryn teammates. Graia brauto has increased fire rate while braced. Columnus is the middle child

[final stag]

Agri is really good at tearing up specialists

[pearl granite]

what does "cleave" mean when we talk about gun?

[final stag]

It goes through multiple targets and allies

[pearl granite]

thx

[final stag]

No problem

[hybrid torrent]

Also, Deathspitter on guns increase the cleave of said guns that have it equipped. Idk if the cleave increase is actually effective in game. The DT breakpoint calc makes it seem like the cleave increase from Deathspitter isn't enough to cleave through more targets.

[pearl granite]

thx

sounds like an oversight on shark's part

[hybrid torrent]

I think moreso Fatshark hasn't done a balance pass of Deathspitter. I think the damage bonus from Deathspitter has remained the same since launch.

I remember for a week or two that Fire Frenzy increased the rate of fire of guns. It was fun making a columnus iag shoot as fast as a minigun.

[pearl granite]

I hope whenever they do the next balance patch, they will buff the shotguns a bit...

while I find the shotguns fun and can make it work in auric damnation, its damage is just laughable 😅

[final stag]

Felt

[hybrid torrent]

Try a Kantrael Shotgun with manstopper and scattershot with deadshot. You'll be suprised how effective that combo is on vet. Just don't load too many fire shells.

[pearl granite]

scatter + deadshot?

I don't see manstopper yet, kinda bad luck

[hybrid torrent]

You'll cleave through a horde like plasma gun, plus you'll gain a round back after killing two specials/elites.

Manstopper is a tier 2 blessing for shotguns.

[pearl granite]

it maxed at 2 right?

[echo parcel]

I want to get flechette for the shotguns but it's so impossible to roll for

[hybrid torrent]

Yes.

[pearl granite]

same here...

[echo parcel]

They should have tier3 and 4 versions

[hybrid torrent]

Yall could lvl another vet or zealot and try and get these two blessings on low-level shotguns. Or be blessed by the emperor/melk with a shotgun rolled with manstopper

[muted knot]

You don't have a low level char ? Cause that's the easiest way to do it

[echo parcel]

I'll probably do that, but it sucks that this is the way the crafting system works atm

[pearl granite]

oh, nice. will do that today

both manstopper and flet are tier 2 right?

[hybrid torrent]

ye

[pearl granite]

what's the level we get to use hadron? 11 I guess?