veteran-class

[sonic marlin]

quickplay not working

who wanna play

automatons, hard

[untold mulch]

sadly gonna pass

[timid otter]

Man chaxe sucks against hordes

Apparently MK4 has only a hitmass of 1 on light attacks

Honestly just looking at the numbers chaxe 12 looks better in near every way

Better bps, more impressive horde clear, a devastating push attack.

[dusty sluice]

anddd heldivers disc is in chaos

[hollow ibex]

i mean it latches onto hordes and shit

so even if it had cleave prob wouldn't matter

[sonic marlin]

literally can't find a single game

and playing alone sucks

hopefully they fix it soon

lol

[radiant chasm]

you dont use mk4 chaxe lights vs horde

that is why

mk12 uses it's lights

mk4 uses it's heavies for horde clear and besides the ease of use with the vertical heavy on mk12, mk4 is considered better because the push attack and horde clear have more ummph

mk4 lights are purposefully single target dps focused

[untold mulch]

When it isn't

[merry gale]

according to them

developers shouldn't be allowed to not work on sunday

[timid otter]

Ill go through a deeper test later i guess

So far i just compared their hitmasses, lights, push attacks, heavys, tried to see what bps they could hit on relevant elite targets ex (bulwarks, crushers, reapers)

[untold mulch]

I am absolutely loving the amount of "aktually, I have a friend in the sector and he says is easy and quick to add more server capacity"

You would guess, if it were in this case, they would have done so in these 2 weeks

[bitter turtle]

actually

my uncle's mom's dog works at burger king

and according to my dog whisperer he's saying helldivers didn't add more servers because of a hotdog shortage

[untold mulch]

Damn, insider knowledge

Honestly I assume the "bottleneck" is whatever system they run for the galactic war

that was not built for so many concurrent helldivers

[wanton dawn]

Exe stance Bolter on ranged only maelstrom is one of the most pleasant experience i had recently

200+ ranged elite kill, more than lesser enemies

[radiant chasm]

understandable

lack of hot dogs is depressing for morale

especially if you lack freedom fries

[tall torrent]

There’s a ranged only maelstrom?

[bitter turtle]

i assume he means mostly ranged modifier

[wanton dawn]

Yeah

[radiant chasm]

for those you use rev'd attacks if able

the bonus of mk4 is that you can just bonk an elite with an unrev'd heavy+push attack and add a lot of stagger, giving you breathing room

mk12 doesn't really have a breathign room move since it's sweeps are all lights

[bitter turtle]

ngl

does anyone else hate being dropped mid mission

on one hand faster plasteel but it feels unsatisfying

[tall torrent]

Free plasteel is free plasteel

[terse idol]

Me as I get dropped on the finale

😌

[tall torrent]

Also, after some games

Achlys8 axe is actually pretty good

[wise fossil]

Why does everyone always go upstairs at the beginning of that Torrent assasin mission?

giant flat area guaranteed to get 10+ gunners

[tall torrent]

Which area

[gray finch]

umm

[lucid hinge]

like the police station assassination mission?

I dont remember the torrent one

[tall torrent]

Oh like very very beginning
It’s prob cuz there’s a small loot chest on the catwalk

[slow spade]

because damage is a myth

the Emperor is protecting us after all

[winged laurel]

any Perk/Blessing tweaking ideas for these?

[tall torrent]

Chainsword, change Savage sweep to rampage

[winged laurel]

nothing else?

[tall torrent]

You need power cycler on power swords

[winged laurel]

ok got all level 4 and 3 Blessings / Perks on the bank waiting

[umbral scaffold]

Chainsword is really good

[lucid hinge]

that PC slaught power sword looks juicy

[tall torrent]

Power sword wants power cycler + BM/Sunder

If BM & sunder didn’t exist, rampage and slaughterer would be king rn

[umbral scaffold]

On veteran I recommend getting the extra finesse damage on the bottom right side of the tree if you can’t get pc4

Because with that you can 2 shot crushers with a certain attack combo

[wise fossil]

Yeah I just see teammates die immediately lol

can't get the plasteel if you're dead

[void rampart]

im ngl i only discovered that passage goes all the way to the end of the first area recently and walking through it while everyone was getting gunned down above felt like heaven

[wise fossil]

Exactly!

it's like this little secret area lol

[void rampart]

never gone above ground in that area since

[wanton dawn]

playing with 2 shroud zealot in no ammo is a very unpleasant experience

[bitter turtle]

tfw you're the only one picking anything up 😔

https://i.gyazo.com/39d2dc94c8a81af01048b057283f059f.png

[wanton dawn]

I dont pick shit

[idle swallow]

https://tenor.com/b1hZg.gif

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/sorryidontspeakitalian-spongebobitalian-spongebobwormy-spongebob-patrickitalian-gif-18339046

[serene sage]

Darktide average skill has improved so great since the launch of Helldivers

Or is it just me

[umbral scaffold]

God roll

(jk)

Specialist dmg bricked it

[shy maple]

me sad big tears owwie owwie

[junior needle]

3/4 is better than the knives I usually get from hadron

[junior needle]

At least yours made an attempt, behold this game I had: #veteran-class message

[little ledge]

help me make a build based around smoke grenades

[bitter turtle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvTcePTUT_E

[timid otter]

Tested in auric damnation

Truly the build of all time

[void rampart]

those poor squadmates ...

[timid otter]

Do not worry i hate the poor.

[terse idol]

makes me so sad it still doesn't kill crushers

[terse idol]

Go infil, weapon spec, smoke grenades

take a revoler

Boom

[trim steppe]

I know what chat this is, but: is there a good reason to take a properly rolled Rashad on the Psyker instead of a force sword?

[potent iris]

rashad is busted but honestly not really any reason to bring on psyker unless you just like the thing

[trim steppe]

I haven't done a side by side but it seems like a Illisi 5 would be a better choice

[potent iris]

duelling sword, deimos etc. will all do you just fine

well dsword with uncanny is also busted but anyway

[trim steppe]

Yeah I've run duelling swords and force swords pretty much exclusively and they are great

I just wasnt sure if the math on a perfect Rashad comes out ahead

[junior needle]

Brutal clear is hard to beat

[tropic river]

what weapons have the best control?

[potent iris]

which class you playing?

If vet your best bet is a shovel imo

[tropic river]

vet

[tropic river]

what about for guns

[potent iris]

got a plethora of options, columnus mkv infantry autogun is a pretty big meta choice rn

but really you can run most anything on vet so long as it's not something bleh like a recon lasgun

[raw steppe]

Psyker exclusive melee is very strong

[austere pine]

saw a person using infiltrate+helbore

is this an actual strat? it looks fun

[potent iris]

helbore in general is a strat, idk what breakpoints it hits with infiltrate in specific

[timid otter]

Imao helbore mk1 with perfect stats doesnt kill a scab rager with headshot by 1 single damage if running with precision strikes, supremacy, 25% flak.

Get rekt helbore

[potent iris]

but if you're into helbore, you can do some nasty stuff with it regardless of ult

[merry gale]

the hardest hitting helbore will 2 shot crushers in the head no matter your talents

i think

[timid otter]

Its not even 1 damage

Its a single decimal of less then 0.5 damage

[umbral granite]

Joined a game in progress and there was an ogryn in the first encounter room alone in a corner trying to stay alive against a plague ogryn and a Lot of poxwalkers while his other 2 teammates (a pair of zealots) were captured all the way at the last room of the mission.

[fluid solstice]

anyone wanna squad up rn?

[austere pine]

thank you, brunt. very cool

[rugged garnet]

Is it totally cool that I have a Veteran based off a failed artist

[austere pine]

how do you mean?

oh

disgusting

[rugged garnet]

It’s just a goof

My main is my zealot based off Jesus

Jesus my beloved

[gray finch]

get rending strikes

[timid otter]

Just testing

[gray finch]

the mk2 cant kill with that as well but i test it without 25% flak

the mk3 and mk1 kill easly

i got 1964 without 25% flak dmg on mk1 also no crit obv

[bitter turtle]

uhh

https://i.gyazo.com/8bad7a0de505b53752f770a0ef703b6f.jpg

he died for me

https://i.gyazo.com/bb69380bcc2003deb612b03eb3b299e6.jpg

https://i.gyazo.com/236687ccaf8f1652d29f0c04fb471c9e.jpg

i think your game is haunted

[tall torrent]

Tag?

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/dc98910ddb719690709d8907ba7dbb87.jpg

i tried it far away too

[timid otter]

Longshot?

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/922a19c1af07d2fac54d17248294ffcb.jpg

nope

no fire team either

your game is haunted

[timid otter]

hmm

[bitter turtle]

imagine

if taking executioner stance lowered your damage

[bitter turtle]

nope

i copied ur setup exactly

still kills him

[timid otter]

wtf

[bitter turtle]

no blessings on weapon, your tree exactly, 80 on everything

did it far away too

like your screenshot

and close up just for the hell of it

[timid otter]

https://discord.gg/eAEeDx4T

[bitter turtle]

did you charge fully

idk

legitimately

lol

yeah i have no idea

your game is haunted

here

you can see mine

STOP CRITTING

GOD DAMNIT

lul

see

lol

but yeah

[timid otter]

hmm

[bitter turtle]

your game is haunted

only explanation

[timid otter]

darktide moment

two differnent results in two differnet games

with the same values, same talents

[bitter turtle]

it must be

my krieg outfit

p2w outfits give 1 dmg

[frank ether]

are charge rates also the same

wonder if its old plasma bug style fuckery going on

[bitter turtle]

yes

its 80 on everything

i copied him exactly

we're both using loadou t mod too so its not mod fuckery

[potent iris]

might be worth compiling your findings and reporting it as a bug maybs

because if you're doing everything exactly 1:1 I wouldn't know why that's happening lol

[timid otter]

Ive learned more then i wanted to already

[bitter turtle]

im too lazy for that shit

[timid otter]

Numbers not being determinstic is a terrible sight to behold.

[bitter turtle]

just for fun

iu took off the krieg outfit

it still kills

[frank ether]

I don't have that mod so I can't do 1:1 testing I don't think

[timid otter]

I just wanted to find out the breakpoints of helbore

and instead i wandered into a rabbit hole of fuckery game logic

[frank ether]

I got flak-elite on mine

so it one shots regardless

[bitter turtle]

for what its worth

lowering dmg to 79

and stoping power stays 80

still kills

try and see if u still hit 2k

if you do then clearly its some bug

[timid otter]

I dont hit 2k

[bitter turtle]

my last idea is

its linked to fps

or something

idk

ill just go with my last explanation

your game is haunted 👻

[frank ether]

my gun is a lower roll

77 damage 78 stopping

[bitter turtle]

well

you have elite+ on it

[timid otter]

What is your melee weapon?

[bitter turtle]

rashad

[timid otter]

Does it have any blessings?

[bitter turtle]

BM/headtaker

[frank ether]

yea so it one shots regardless

[timid otter]

no differnece with rashad

[bitter turtle]

with BM?

idk, the bayonet inherits BM

[timid otter]

Ye it was with bm

[bitter turtle]

welp

no idea then

[austere pine]

which of the infantry lasguns is the best pick?

[hybrid token]

1a probably

[junior needle]

1a

Highest dps, also best balance of one shot potential/usability.

[austere pine]

there anything specific the other ones do poorly?

[junior needle]

k12 has the best damage per shot, but lacks overall dps. It's also more unwieldy. Mg4 more or less requires an autofire macro and doesn't do quite as much dps as the 1a, also has the worst one tap potential.

But the dps for the 4 isn't too far behind

[gusty bison]

12's extra damage doesnt bring it to notable extra breakpoints compared to the 1a

It still cant 1 tap a rager

And 1a one taps everything short of a rager

So the lower fire rate is just a strict downside in most situations

Mg4 just requires u to get carpal tunnel, and the recoil is tricky to use properly

Generally its

MG 1a > MG 4 >>>>> MG 12

[serene bough]

Ye mg1a if you wanna reach break points easy mg4 if you wanna spamfire consistent dps

[junior needle]

1a has more dps than the 4

[gusty bison]

Note that MG 4 spamfire dps is lower than most full auto guns unless ur hitting headshots.

[junior needle]

So it's better for that too

[serene bough]

Spam fire

Unleash all the bullets

[gusty bison]

MG 4 is easier to hit headshots while spamfiring thou iirc

[junior needle]

Yeah you can autofire a 1a, I did it before

[serene bough]

Can't miss the enemy if you drown em in a sea of bullets

[junior needle]

Let me check the recoils again

It's been awhile

[serene bough]

You take the fun out of things sometimes

Just want more pewpew

[frank ether]

I get the odd player every once in a while spamming mg4 with full auto mod

[junior needle]

Well aktchually they're lasers 🤓

[frank ether]

better dps than recons tho

[junior needle]

Facts, except on flak

[frank ether]

and probably not gonna take all the ammo

like recon players do

[junior needle]

Yeah they have much better ammo efficiency

[timid otter]

Do recons have damage falloff?

[hybrid token]

yes

[gusty bison]

Yes

Quite harsh too

[serene bough]

Recon is just bad atm

[gusty bison]

Unless ur point blank kekrat

The iLas reverse falloff is maddening i tell you

[hybrid token]

its not that bad

[gusty bison]

Check unyielding

Thats the killer

[junior needle]

Yeesh, I hate both of them

[hybrid token]

most irrelevant damage type

[gusty bison]

Flak then

[hybrid token]

well aside from infested lol

[gusty bison]

Also maniac

[gusty bison]

Hum 1a looks more consistent... if u can get over the fact the sight is wrong

4 has a better sight

But yea

Hating both of them

[junior needle]

Yeah I noticed that too, they should really bump down the jumping on these. This is max stability too,

[gusty bison]

Also today on reddit dumbasses

How the fuck is this downvoted

[serene sage]

nerfing = reddit not being carried by those weapons

[gusty bison]

AND THIS UPVOTED

I like... what

How are u taking 7-8 bullets to kill a rager

[timid otter]

I think the wonky aim is the real problem of bolter.

ADS doesnt quite just feel right

[gusty bison]

I think its just people not being used to irons tbf

Its pretty accurate with a decently phat bullet

But during P12 ive seen that half the vets literally cannot hit the broadside of a barn door with that thing

As in they will miss 5 ADS shots on a bulwark

Standing like 10m in front of them

[tall torrent]

Because Reddit people are hard carried by revolver

[atomic zephyr]

don’t boltguns one or two shot ravers

ragers

[tall torrent]

Usually 2 shot

[atomic zephyr]

yeah I wanna know what bro is shooting to need half a mag to kill one

[tall torrent]

Hipfire magdump (can’t hit his shots)

[gusty bison]

The guy putting bullets into the wall

[atomic zephyr]

skill issue fr

[gusty bison]

With surgical it can be built to 1 shot

But ye

[gusty bison]

Ngl i dunno how many people will claim the volver is trash if we remove its aim assist and touch nothing else

[tall torrent]

Crit HS yes
Wildly inconsistent in practical terms

[gusty bison]

Depends on the build tbf

Bolter has he best surgical in the game after all

[atomic zephyr]

I’ve been using a surgical boltgun with exe stance

[gusty bison]

I use VoC for mine

But i run deadshot, precision strikes, duck n dive and focus target

And reciprocity

So I can stack that 100% crit shot super quick

[atomic zephyr]

I’d use VoC but I could use VoC for literally everything so I use exe stance

[gusty bison]

Fair

I find exec does nothing for bolter

Which is the sad part

Its ok for braced auto mostly

And uh

Uh

Uhhh

Vraks 3?

[atomic zephyr]

i just like it /shrug

if im focusing on a shooty build I typically grab it

[gusty bison]

Mm the main thing ive found is most precision guns dont benefit from the damage increase

Cos if u one shot thr guy

More damage is redundant

So its really the full autoguns that can get the benefit

[atomic zephyr]

that’s true i do much better with my exe stance autogun than boltgun

agrippina my beloved

[tall torrent]

I’m more talking the inconsistent nature of bolter headshots

[mighty schooner]

Am I the only one simping for the bayonet and lazgun shovel combo?

[tall torrent]

Helbore lasguns want a melee that has brutal momentum

[mighty schooner]

Brutal momentum? Is that a special, I’m still sort of new to the game

[vague lintel]

its a blessing

its on like combat axe and power sword most notably

HM to taxe

[odd sparrow]

Brutal momentum basically gives infinite cleave when it procs. Also the weakspot damage helps with hitting 1shot breakpoints

[mighty schooner]

Awesome, I love it

[mighty schooner]

Thanks for the info

[timid otter]

Is there anything even that remarkable about tactical axes?

I cant think of a single thing they exactly do "well".

[vague lintel]

not really no

they have good attack speed

and with the right set up they can kinda keep up with some stuff but they are generally lacking

[timid otter]

How tf am i supposed to write an essay about tactical axes if they have no remarkable qualties.

ok time to scour the internet for anyone saying anything good about tac axe

[bitter turtle]

conveniently doesnt list the most important ones like flak lul

and maniac

i dont mean u, its just the game doesnt list

they are really bad tho

Accatran Mk VId Recon Lasgun

● Armour Modifiers (near, far):

○ Unarmoured: 75%, 100% to 90%, 75%.

○ Flak: 75%, 100% to 75%, 50%.

○ Unyielding: 50%, 100% to 65%, 50%.

○ Maniac: 50%, 60% to 60%, 50%.

○ Infested: 75%, 100% to 100%, 75%.

from the nerfs

[bitter turtle]

i like them on zealot

[tall torrent]

They’re not great rn

[vague lintel]

they do have good crits so you can make some use of them on zealot

ig that can be mentioned

[tall torrent]

Partially true except there’re just much better crit focused weapons for all 3 classes

[timid otter]

Its veteran aimed regardless.

[tall torrent]

Knife, evicerator, heavy sword being prime examples for zealot

And for veteran, you still have knife

[vague lintel]

oh yeah there are much better options

for crit builds

[tall torrent]

Tac axes don’t even really struggle in ADM all that much

It’s just that the base dmg values are low

Combat axes drastically outperform them

Tac axes need like literal perfect conditions to get bruiser 1HS with heavy attack to use BM for them

[fickle walrus]

Please obese megalodon .. just a crumb of content..

[tall torrent]

I hope

[bitter turtle]

i really like spamming tac axe lights on zealot

for the crit cd reduction

i know ppl say stuff like evis with cleave can do it better

but its nice that you can get nearly infinite cdr even on low number of targets

[junior needle]

I tried a tac axe 4 with headtaker and shred on my stealth zealot setup and it did surprisingly good for clear and single target, even against carapace.

You can actually get more crit than the knife but it just can't beat my flesh tearer knife with the way I play.

[junior needle]

Then there's only one tac axe with suitable heavies for it (the 2, and it's just a worse rashad)

[late hatch]

light spam on a tac 4 feels better to me on zealot. just chews up hordes

bromentum and decap is nice

rashad is slow

[junior needle]

It's slow without attack speed boosts, I agree. Much more suited for a fotf and marty/momentum setup.

[junior needle]

You mean deci? The lights can't seem to reach bruiser breakpoints so I just don't bother with brutal. Thankfully it can hit the 2 bruiser cleave level with headtaker alone.

I hate deci because it drops on a miss and can't multistack anymore

[late hatch]

Um i cant remember, the one that builds finesse, not the one that stacks power coz the stacks all drop too easy for me.

[junior needle]

Decapitator isn't on tac axes

At least according to gameslantern

[late hatch]

bromentum lets you cleave the light horde and clear them up faster.
maybe i was thinking of rashad with decap

[junior needle]

Headtaker doesn't drop on a miss and also multistacks on cleave, highly recommend

[bitter turtle]

yeah

tac axe 4 is what i ran too

its a lot better than i thought it would be

[junior needle]

You can still take brutal for groaners/poxes but a lot of the power goes as soon as bruisers get in the mix.

[bitter turtle]

i should try shred

i usually hate those "drop all stacks on miss" type skills

[tall torrent]

Shred has a lot of value for tac axes

[junior needle]

Yeah especially on zealot with crit cdr and scourge, normally I wouldn't take it either

[tall torrent]

You can have up to 32% crit chance with the weapon itself (20% shred IV, 12% crit bonus)

[late hatch]

shred is good but i norm run the crit keystone so i feel it is excessive

[junior needle]

Sizable single target damage increase, also more consistent cdr even if you aren't hitting the max bonus/dropping stacks every so often.

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/5399abd4b0d341e57c438f8783a4ad68.png

time to try it lel

[junior needle]

Tac axes are kinda starved for good options

[tall torrent]

You can go up to like 92% melee crit chance lol
Zealot 5%
Scourge 30%
Shred 20%
Blazing piety 25%
Crit bonus 12%

[junior needle]

Guess I'm playing darktide because helldiver multiplayer still isn't working

[elder fiber]

oof

[serene sage]

me all day long 😔

[junior needle]

Also the laser guns in helldivers 2 blow atm

But apparently that's most guns

Goofy ass armor pen system

Oh no, 6d recon vet

with exe

[serene sage]

I learned that the hard way Laser cannon is doodoo

Common laser weapons L

[junior needle]

The scythe is also doodoo, only somewhat ok against bugs

[serene sage]

one thing is the same across universes

[serene sage]

to be fair, scythe in your hand = doodoo
scythe in your guard dog rover = everything less than charger dead

[terse idol]

Its silly that the guard dog without sythe =doodoo

[bitter turtle]

god damn

[terse idol]

Not unlimited ammo like wth

[bitter turtle]

i swear the silent specials got even worse

somehow

3 games in a row ive been trapepd without even the net firing sound

[serene sage]

guard dog should have a backpack funtion that goes out when you call it out instead of being automatic to save ammo

[terse idol]

[serene sage]

anyway, since we can't do HD2

who wants to play the better game DT

[serene bough]

i want to play HD2

but none of my friends want to play it

[serene sage]

it's okay a lot of people can't play it right now

it's server at capacity sim at the moment

[serene bough]

probably wouldnt play as much as darktide anyways

can only hyperfocus on one game a ta time

[junior needle]

The recon user left

[still hound]

Gib meltagun

[icy rampart]

what perks do I need for plasma?

[junior needle]

Highly depends on your rolls and talents

+elite and maniac are common recommendations

[lucid pasture]

I never saw much of a reason to run plasma as long as I carry Krak 'nades with the regen and +1 talents.

[junior needle]

It'd be very funny if they somehow had different weapon stats

You don't run plasma to deal with crushers

You run plasma to have beeg cleave and one shot most things

It's like revolver but better

[lucid pasture]

I always feel like my lasgun's good 'nuff for the most part

[junior needle]

There's a sizable power gap between plasma and basically everything else right now

[icy rampart]

yeah that's because you're not very good

[lucid pasture]

[junior needle]

brudal

[lucid pasture]

You're right, I'm incredibly good

[junior needle]

Lasguns are "ok" for the most part, depending on the line

[icy rampart]

trying to hit the gunner bodyshot breakpoint

5 or so focus stacks

[junior needle]

You should be able to hit it without focus stacks

[icy rampart]

i got a natty specialist +% perk

[junior needle]

Gunners are elites

[lucid pasture]

He wouldn't have known, he's not very good

[icy rampart]

damn

[junior needle]

That's why I said elites, it's mostly for gunners

ping keystone tends to get you over the hardest breakpoints for plasma

[icy rampart]

what's the perk for gunners?

flak for the scab ig but that won't deal with the dreg

[junior needle]

Dreg gunners have unarmored heads

scabs have flak heads

Just take elites for dreg gunners and also a boost to a bunch of others

[icy rampart]

are there any needed perks?

[junior needle]

Elites and maniac are the most recommended, but it very much depends

[icy rampart]

oh fuck perks

sorry

blessings

brainfart lmfao too much destiny 2

[junior needle]

Not strictly needed but gets hot is clearly the best one. For the second slot you can choose between blaze or gloryhunter

Having your perks in order for consistent one shots is regarded as higher priority than blessings

[hybrid token]

thats a 17.5% damage loss on maniac at range, its not that bad, with long shot you might even do more at range than at close

[junior needle]

Just fyi, the maniac damage wasn't nerfed in that patch, the ranges were just swapped because it previously had inversed falloff.

Unyielding, flak, and unarmored were nerfed though.

Not unsalvageably assuming you take the rending talents as you should but

Needing multiple talent taxes just to get a somewhat acceptable baseline of performance is a sign of being undertuned.

[lucid pasture]

@junior needle How make good plasma shooty

[serene bough]

seems kinda scuffed

[lucid pasture]

Yeah, think I got jipped on the perk and blessing rolls.

[serene bough]

blaze away + gets hot/glory hunter for blessings are ideal

perks i think you want to go for maniac and unyielding/cara

[lucid pasture]

Did one of each and sorta salvaged it I think.

Figured Gets Hot worked decently well with Volatile, considering the faster I charge the faster I get the crit chance bonus.

[serene bough]

id imagine blaze away is better than gets hot considering you're going to be spamming M1 ad nauseum

i havent touched plasma since they overtuned it

[lucid pasture]

Gets Hot was the only good blessing I had sat aside anyway lol

[umbral scaffold]

which perk matters less? I'm assuming crit

[lucid pasture]

Man both of those perk rolls look pretty weak in my personal opinion

[umbral scaffold]

yeah I'm just trying to have a half-decent columnus on my vet, won't be perfect

[lucid pasture]

I'd probably replace the 6% damage increase if it was me. That could be swapped out for something with a way greater effect.

[umbral scaffold]

true I guess it's only elites

[lucid pasture]

I mean if it was a 10% boost roll as opposed to 6%, I'd swap the other one, but the fact it isn't tier 4 puts me off it.

You almost got a tier 4 roll on the crit chance, so that's the one I'd stick with.

[junior needle]

4/4 scuffed

[lucid pasture]

Yeah sounds about right

Do think I salvaged it as best I could tho

[junior needle]

ciag actually has long crit strings so crit isn't that bad on it. I would've fixed both perks with that roll though.

[lucid pasture]

Good replacement picks, aye?

[junior needle]

Good enough, just keep in mind that consistent 1 taps>>> inconsistent 1 taps

[lucid pasture]

'S the best I could do for the moment

Don't like dipping below 1 mil on autobuy and batches of 10 plasma guns are expensive

[junior needle]

That means the perks are typically more important than the blessings unless you hit the maniac BP's without +maniac

[stiff glacier]

Finally got autopistol with the powderburn and 80% damage

[junior needle]

It builds one shot at a time and falls off nearly instantly, whereas you can get like 50% crit with near permanent uptime with gets hot

[junior needle]

autopistol with the powderburn
powderburn
autopistol

[stiff glacier]

Price of hipstering is high

But i will pay it

Also hows the helbore variants besides 3 having worst bayonet lunge

[serene bough]

does crit even matter for plasma

seems like people are one shotting conga lines of gunners anyways

[serene bough]

mk1 & mk2 bayonets good mk3 bad

where's craime

[crude ermine]

Mk 3 more like mk pee because it's BAD

[serene bough]

gottem

[austere mica]

Only really for anything ogryn sized and up + crushers

Maulers

brain works

[serene bough]

i see

wish they'd bake in more risk into using plasma if its going to remain this strong

[midnight totem]

Every plasma shot you roll a dice

if the result is 1

you blow up

[serene bough]

as true to the table top as that would be, id start by bringing back HP damage

[junior needle]

It can give you certain breakpoints on harder targets, also bodyshot breakpoints for softer ones

[serene bough]

or ripping through toughness HP far more faster

[trim steppe]

Yooooo I finally got it

[midnight totem]

nice

[blissful flame]

grats!

[unreal bone]

Yes I know the Recon lasguns suck yes I know the Mk II recon is the worst of the worst idc.

What can I do to amke this one the best of the shit.

[stiff glacier]

Maybe buff vs certain damage type and crit chance

[unreal bone]

flak maniac?

the crit chance perk is meh.

Was thinking 25% flak and 25% maniac

[stiff glacier]

That is safe choice

[trim steppe]

Maybe flak crusher since maniac damage is pretty bad, at least you can kill crushers better

but flak maniac is usually a safe choice

[stiff glacier]

Flak infested so you melt gunners, and weakspot monsters

Or spray pox horde

Idk

[blissful flame]

i'm still constantly surprised how many people don't seem to understand it's a waste to use an ammo bag after emptying one mag

ran a mission with a vet who also had a level 30 zealot (they had the zealot badge thing), and during the finale, they put down an ammo crate, and was going back to it every 20 seconds. they used it all up themselves

whoa, the emperor smiles on me, i think

[lucid pasture]

Wowie zowie

Now upgrade it =v

[blissful flame]

eh

[amber cliff]

ITS BRICKED

ITS SO BRICKED

GIVE IT TO MME ITS SO BRICKJED I SWEARR

[blissful flame]

is the brittleness on hit any good as a blessing?

[crude ermine]

For plasma no

Idk about the others

[blissful flame]

def swapping sprint for like, flack or something

[amber cliff]

Either that or unyeilding

[lucid pasture]

I'd say that's a good call

[tall torrent]

This is good

[lucid pasture]

Looked quite good imo as well

[tall torrent]

Gets Hot change to IV
Sprint efficiency to elite

Basically a godroll plasma

[blissful flame]

and it was a gift from the emperor

always better than any store

[lucid pasture]

Wrong, behold my Brunt lasgun

[tall torrent]

no deadly accurate

[blissful flame]

also for literal months, every single plasma gun i've seen has dumped damage

[lucid pasture]

Can't win 'em all

But look at those stat rolls

And the blessings it got were a lot better than the perk rolls, they were horrible. At least this way it's a headshot machine.

[junior needle]

since maniac damage
Maybe flak crusher

Why would you recommend carapace over maniac when carapace is much worse

[junior needle]

Your choice of either crit chance+ flak or maniac, or flak/maniac. Please do not take that gun into aurics though. Even regular damnation it'll underperform very noticeably.

[wanton dawn]

Prob cuz recon maniac dmg are unrecoverable anyway

[junior needle]

That'

is what rending talents are for

[blissful flame]

ok yeah i like this plasma gun. th eonly quibble right now is that even with elite on, dreg gunners have a habit of surviving with a smidge of hp

[junior needle]

Grab some more damoge in the tree

[blissful flame]

oh i'm dumb

i got focus target. even one stack should be enough to tip it over

[junior needle]

Even if he doesn't take the rending talents, which is possible because he knows how bad that gun is and wants to use it anyway

[blissful flame]

so as long as i tag it first, dreg gunngers should die

[junior needle]

Maniac will still be much, much more useful than carapace

[wanton dawn]

I dont play recon unironically. I dont judge advice on that

I just know that trying to make recon work against maniac is a lost battle

[junior needle]

You can take talents that fix their shit maniac modifiers

And shit unyielding modifiers

And not terribly impressive flak modifiers, usually

Ofc they're undertuned as fuck anyway but like

[wanton dawn]

And it would still do lackluster dmg on all 3

Without cleave nor stagger

[junior needle]

I know, but the point is you can make it so it blows against most damage types equally

At least on vet

[wanton dawn]

Well, am not expert on low tier boring stuff

I just like to see ppl trying stuff to salvage them

Like testing exe bolter on mostly ranged was eye opening

[severe adder]

whats better? replace 1.5 stamina with maniac probably or other one already with 2 used slots

[trim steppe]

godDAMN thats a good roll

[blissful flame]

i think i'm in love, actually

took it for a spin, and on my second mission in

i think that really is a sign i should graduate from malice lol

[junior needle]

malice

Take the training wheels off

[little path]

which chainaxe better

mk4 better. Nvm

[junior needle]

Both of them are not very good at horde clear

[blissful flame]

malice has been a comfort zone. I got a lot of stress in life, and I just wasn't sure if iw as ready to get into difficulties that give me less time to breathe, figuratively

[tired hornet]

I get it. The jump from malice to heresy was rough but I did it about a month after the game launched. It gets you more stuff for better gear, and you get more dopamine from the stuff you kill… there’s more of it.

[blissful flame]

yeah, part of what drew me in was that in the past few weeks i could tell iw as heavily depleting my stockpile of resoures in crafting stuff, I've actually got 5 characters at 30

[tired hornet]

Malice can be fun, I just wish it had more enemies. My dream is something with hoards ten times the size of high intensity damnation with the hp of malice

[blissful flame]

that, and also getting the achievemnts on overwatch and that one where i have to do 15 missions on malice or higher in a row without going down, tells me that my defense must be adequate

[tired hornet]

Damnation is great because you get at least 500 plasteel per game

[blissful flame]

or at least my toughness build is gonna carry me lol

if i get cozy in heresy though, i do need to spend some time with volley fire if i want to get more penances

[tired hornet]

I mean, you’re always gonna go down from time to time. Nothing to be nervous about. It’s a game, if you want to, give it a go.

[junior needle]

You just need to

git gud

[white minnow]

get that money (plasteel)

[junior needle]

Can't imagine farming resources on lower difficulties

Damnation nearly doubles the amount of plasteel from heresy

[gaunt delta]

Plasteel per Diamantine is kinda odd. It’s Plasteel per second that we ought to care about

[blissful flame]

tried two low intensity heresy missions that went well

though I was going in slightly risky without any extra wounds

but I did stay upright. got close when a trapper managed to snag me and i got beat up before the squad managed to rescue me lol

[autumn wave]

If you have the patience for it throwing yourself at the deep end is always a great way to up your game

Even if you go down you can always spectate players to learn some of that schmoovement

[dire olive]

Also tbh

Damnation is easier than Heresy a lot of times because it has better teammates

[autumn wave]

That's just my anectodal experience though, there's still a risk you might find yourself in unpleasant company who flame and nitpick scores

[dire olive]

Heresy is full of either relatively new players/people too bad to handle damnation

And you have to carry them

[autumn wave]

OP doesn't sound to be the carrying type though

[dire olive]

That's what I'm saying, damnation might actually be easier

Because the team will carry themselves

Because anyone with experience plays damnation

[white minnow]

i have that column since i was curious about the fact that some people were saying that their diamantine count was constant while others were saying it was going up

[stiff glacier]

We need ability to trade diamantine for plasteel

Ive got like over 10 000 diamantine just sitting there

[white minnow]

turns out that refining/reblessing uses more diamantine-to-plasteel than you gain on damnation

[stiff glacier]

But plasteel never goes above 800

[autumn wave]

That feels like a paradoxical statement in relation to OP's situation lol

[agile yew]

Its because game doesnt communicate it to you in any way, people assume they can just go grab ammo from it until it runs out. Instead of it being 4 charges that get you to 100%

Ammo box needs to have visual numbers on it for all so they get how it works, instead of no info whatsoever

I had to google it

Played 2 months and only recently found out how it works

[stiff glacier]

Visual representation of 4 kits that disappear per use

[agile forge]

In payday 2 it's granular

And also the ammo bags shrink as you take ammo from them

The doc bags act more like our ammo bags (and have clear visual indicators about number of charges too)

[blissful flame]

and then there's that super-handy darktide mod that just give ammo crates and med stations colored icons based on charge level

[agile forge]

(Actually doc bags act very much like placable medicae stations I guess)

[blissful flame]

speaking of payday 2, today is the day that my darktide playtime finally surpassed my payday 2 playtime

[agile yew]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/93

[blissful flame]

stopped playing payday 2 in 2018, after I made a mistake doing a hardware update and wiped my progress. whoops

and yes, that's the mod i was thinking of, thank you!

if only fatshark would make it redundant

[stiff glacier]

My friend after 8 years still trying to 100% achievements

[thick wolf]

the funny thing is, Fatshark could've just made the ammo crate model differ slightly depending on how many charges are left

if PAYDAY 2 can do it with its ammo and medicbags looking more emptier each use, a 2013 game no less

[agile yew]

Yeah easy to have model with 4 compartments, 1 disappearing each time used

Talking of mods, for stats nerds this seems heaven https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/281?tab=description

[honest crest]

Is there a mod to remove the charging indicators from the Hellbore (or whatever the name is, on phone,can't easily check).

I really disliked them, but at the same time I really want to play around with a bayonet.

[agile yew]

This might help though? https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/277

You can turn your Hellbore gun visually into whatever then, only you see it

[trim hemlock]

The UI elements?

[agile yew]

Oh yeah if its UI element then there is mod for moving those around too

[trim hemlock]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/253

Try this and configure the mod’s options

I’m personally liking the indicator, but not the spaced one - I like the one that appears closer to the dot

[honest crest]

Internet keeps dying. Yup I mean the two little ui wing things to the right and left of the sight. I found them super annoying.

On the helbore or whatever the Krieg lasgun is called anyway.

[thick wolf]

I only want to run the game with only the non-roman alphabet fonts properly showing up mod but

good god I really really hate the non-ads revolver crosshair it's so bad

[trim hemlock]

Plasma gun has the very same one, it’s atrocious

[thick wolf]

like Fatshark

you really couldn't at least add a dot on the center?

my psyker has a non-ads revolver and its borderline unusuable because of it

[thick wolf]

also for the psyker staff

[umbral scaffold]

Kantrael shotgun is dope.....

[gusty bison]

Elite damage

Crits on Columnus are actually batshit insane

Cos u get like 5 crits per crit and each bullet is 2.7x damage

[wanton dawn]

4 crit, roughly 200% across armor classes

Also deadshot alone bring your effective crit rate over 60%

[lusty salmon]

wait there is mods for darktide????

[shadow aurora]

Of course

What games dont have mods

[lusty salmon]

idk I figured most online games banned mods

[white minnow]

fatshark has taken a pretty lenient stance on them

[shadow aurora]

I mean if you get anything that alters the game for other people youll get in trouble but quality of life stuff amd cosmetics are fine

[white minnow]

they made a post about it on their forums if you're curious about some of the specifics

[lusty salmon]

nice

[agile forge]

It's a surprising amount of burn stacks per shot, and the direct damage is really nice too

I like mine on my knife pervert zealot

[viscid sparrow]

I think Stripped Down is becoming one of my favourite blessings to have on a Columnus IAG.

Even without Duck & Dive its still nice and useful to be capable of sprinting past a line of shooters/gunners, and then make it to actual cover or just rush at the shooters...

[umbral scaffold]

got one for my vet with WS paired with a chainaxe...works like a charm, with kraks there's nothing i can't take down

[gusty bison]

I got bored and did a vet ranged weapon tier list

[dawn garnet]

the revolver is essentially a 5 shot mini nuke

[gusty bison]

Yep

[slow spade]

It also needs another buff

Belt fed revolver when?

[gusty bison]

We realized people still couldnt hit headshots despite the aim assist. Thus we gave it seeking bullets

[slow spade]

Omg based Fatshark 😩

[wanton dawn]

agri brauto is 1 tier too low

I definitely rate it as good or better than all gun in the tier above

[gusty bison]

Its honestly bumpable to A

Its the top of B on that list

The main thing really is the Agri IAG exists

[wanton dawn]

Dunno, I never see the agri IAG at higher diff. Especially played well

[gusty bison]

Cos people use the colly

=.=

[wanton dawn]

Meanwhile, I see agri brauto beating all over gun in damage done

[gusty bison]

I mean yes

Most of thr guns in A are precision guns

Which inherently get lower damage numbers

Because they hit less trash

[wanton dawn]

Hitting trash is not inherently a problem

[gusty bison]

It does inflate damage numbers though

Which makes a raw damage done comparison meaningless

[wanton dawn]

Yeah but you are implying that the rest is way better at dealing with non trash. Which is very arguable

[gusty bison]

I mean. They are?

[wanton dawn]

I'd argue no

[gusty bison]

We are looking at a bunch of 1 shot guns

Or the laser beam IAGs

[agile forge]

Tbh I like IAGs for trash too

[gusty bison]

Every gun in A tier that isnt the IAGs 1 taps all specials not the mutie, and 1 taps everything up to gunner. Most even 1 tap ragers

Laspistol might need two cos its not 100% crit rate but its also blistering rof

They are all guns with decent suppression resistance (bolter aside, but bolter also goes for bodyshots on a lot of targets)

[wanton dawn]

Then I guess the issue is that you are rating based on headshot potential

[gusty bison]

Its vet

[wanton dawn]

Which I inherently disagree with

[gusty bison]

Of course ur rating on headshot potential

[rare prawn]

for columnus, what are considered to be the "dump" stats ?

[wanton dawn]

mobility

[gusty bison]

Ammo, Mobility, even Damage is dumpable

As long as its not comically low

[rare prawn]

so stopping power is important ?

[gusty bison]

Yes

[wanton dawn]

yes

[gusty bison]

Most important stat

[rare prawn]

interesting, had no idea

is 69% too low ?

[gusty bison]

Its usable

Its a columnus

You'll be fine

[wanton dawn]

Also the only reason i rate hb same tier as agri brauto is cause of my bayonet build

[gusty bison]

Hb frankly is one of the best three non OP precision rifles

Hb, bolter, Vraks 7 form the solid precision rifle trio

V7 is the hardest to use, Bolter the easiest

And HB the happy medium

I will say its hard to compare precision rifles to automatics

But vet is designed to favour the former over the latter

Zealot favours the latter over the former

[wanton dawn]

Sure but you made a tier list that contains agri brauto and shotgun

[gusty bison]

I mean yes? Kantrael and Agri are perfectly solid at what they do

Kantrael deletes mixrd hordes.

Agri is a sniper rifle

Both require a specific build

[wanton dawn]

Again, the point is you made the tier based on headshot potential

[gusty bison]

Kanny isnt a headshot gun thou

[wanton dawn]

Which is already arguable when you put plasma on top but hey

[gusty bison]

Plasma makes headshots easier by aiming for u

:P

Same for volver

[wanton dawn]

plasma strength has little to do with headshot

it has, what, 25% finesse modifier ?

[gusty bison]

40%

Which is enough to push it over some important BPs

Gunner flamer 1 tap and rager crit 1 tap

[wanton dawn]

You have tons of way to 1 tap those that does not involve headshot. Also cleave angle

[gusty bison]

Rager needs a headshot

Gunner u can stack up buffs sure but its not as reliable

[wanton dawn]

and again, I don't judge a gun efficiency by its headshot 1 tap potential anyway

[gusty bison]

Its vet though.

Headshots are literally what half the rangrd damage stuff buffs

[wanton dawn]

I don't even fish that much with columnus iag

[gusty bison]

Colly gets away with bodyshots just by being overtuned in dps

[wanton dawn]

Or because I already benefit from finesse from playing deadshot

[gusty bison]

You double benefit from crit headshots

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but again: it is full auto, not shot per shot. And it has noticiable recoil

[gusty bison]

Colly has low recoil on the first 6 bullets and after the first 20

6 bullets is enough to kill a rager

[wanton dawn]

On headshot or crit ?

[gusty bison]

Crit headshot

[wanton dawn]

I mean if you want to push it you can kill a crusher in less than a second (#veteran-class message) (11 bullets to kill btw)

[gusty bison]

Mhm

Vet can push the performance of many weapons with headshots

[agile forge]

Also DD/SG psyker

[gusty bison]

And Darktide enemies are easy af to headshot

[agile forge]

You get that little window of being like two-three veterans stapled together

Columnus headshots and crits are crazy on psyker

[gusty bison]

And once again everything in B tier i would say is something the average auric competence player can pick up and clear auric with a little practice

[civic bane]

Melk is selling me this lucius lasgun. Should I pick it up ?

[toxic leaf]

no

[slow spade]

I wouldn't

[wanton dawn]

How rich are yah ?

[slow spade]

Both those blessings have a lvl 4 variant

[agile forge]

If I made that through Hadron I'd be happy enough

[wanton dawn]

It is okay if you have at least 10k in the bank

[agile forge]

But I probably wouldn't buy it

[wanton dawn]

Then again, if you have 10k you would probably have found a better one by now

[civic bane]

Yeah I only have a little more than 5k melk-bucks. Imma hold onto them for a little longer then

[slow spade]

0 ammo picked up

Don't worry you'll do better next time 😔

[gusty bison]

Its not bad but you can do better

[fresh ginkgo]

Why's the Accatran down at the bottom?

It's a spectacular all-purpose weapon if you run a crit build. No consumption on a crit and scavenger means you're still on white ammo for most of the mission when everyone else is down in orange and red

[gusty bison]

Because it doesnt do this

[slow spade]

Because its shit

[wanton dawn]

Well, on that one I agree that recon are terribly lackluster

[gusty bison]

Crits dont reduce ur ammo consumption much

Because of an innate cooldown to the shocktrooper ammo refund

[slow spade]

Shocktrooper is only 20% effective with Recon

[gusty bison]

Mhm

[slow spade]

Recons are lucky they're not F

[wanton dawn]

Also this: #veteran-class message

[gusty bison]

On top of that recon having poor finesse means u arent getting much damage from crits either

[slow spade]

It does give rending though which helps with its dogshit damage vs maniac UwU

[gusty bison]

Headshots dont do much either. Cos once again, poor finesse

[fresh ginkgo]

It still kills in good time, anything that isn't carapace. It's no oneshot machine, sure, but it's an extremely forgiving weapon in terms of aiming, range and ammo pool

[gusty bison]

Its slower at killing than every other gun though

[tiny summit]

Are you playing damn?

[wanton dawn]

a 80% damage recon with maniac mod has worst ttk on maniac than a 0% dmg 0% stopping power columnus

[gusty bison]

Aiming sure. But it doesnt reward aiming either since it barely does extra damage on headshot.

It has a very tight ammo pool compared to every other vet gun, esp with surv factored in.

And its range is average

[fresh ginkgo]

Yeah, I use it as part of my commando build. Shout, nades and crits

[wanton dawn]

Also also, shocktropper does not applies on string crit, a nerf that was directly aimed at recon

[slow spade]

Like clockwork

[tiny summit]

Then every other weapon is gonna be outperforming it with the same build

[wanton dawn]

Cuz you know, recon were "too strong"

While we might disagree on a lot of tier list, one thing remains consistent across all experienced ppl

[gusty bison]

Recon makes the C tier because you can make it work with effort

But like

Its still worst in class

[wanton dawn]

recon are not good

[slow spade]

I miss when they were

[tiny summit]

Last balance patch it ate several dmg nerfs against various armor types and range on top of shocktrooper change that specifically kneecapped the recon's interaction with shocktrooper

[slow spade]

Even though people still mag dumped into hordes, at least they were doing something

[gusty bison]

But yea almost every gun on vet other than recon requires no ammo pickups. Plasma is the only exception

[fresh ginkgo]

They're not "good", but they don't belong down at the bottom of the pile either. It's still a more than workable weapon with a decent TTK, and it can deal with the attrition that is long times between ammo pickups. That's IF you have to pick up ammo in the first place

[wanton dawn]

They do belong at the bottom of the pile

[gusty bison]

The thing is something has to be bottom of the pile

[slow spade]

Name any vet gun worse than it

[gusty bison]

And everything else is better

[wanton dawn]

There is litterally no gun available to vet with worse performance

[slow spade]

Even the shotguns are more viable

[gusty bison]

Note that bottom of the pile is not F tier here. Its C tier

With the really bad recon variant being D

[fresh ginkgo]

Based on personal experience? Revolver. Now before I say anything, the tool itself is spectacular

[gusty bison]

...

[fresh ginkgo]

The people who use them are not spectacular

[gusty bison]

What

[slow spade]

LMAO

[gusty bison]

What

[wanton dawn]

[gusty bison]

This is literally the best vet gun

[slow spade]

That's the strongest Vet option

Even plasma has weaknesses

[fresh ginkgo]

"Now before I say anything, the tool itself is spectacular"

[wanton dawn]

Unless you are talking about the "other" revolver then benefit of the doubt

[tiny summit]

If they are the lowest performing weapon...they are at the bottom. People aren't saying they are unusable trash incapable of playing damn. It's that they are objectively the most underperforming out of the weapons

[gusty bison]

The people using it are bad cos they rely on it as a crutch

[slow spade]

Yeah and its still ridiculous because recon users are worse

[fresh ginkgo]

I didn't expect much reading comprehension in veteran chat guys, but come on

[gusty bison]

Thats literally meta weapons for you

[wanton dawn]

Stop making it a "us" problem

[gusty bison]

The more meta the weapon

Usually the worse the player behind it

Dont rate a gun by the average skill of its user

[slow spade]

Says the one claiming recons aren't the worst lol

[fresh ginkgo]

At least we can agree on that

[fresh ginkgo]

Meta attracts the shit players, I dunno what to tell you

[gusty bison]

Because meta lets bad players play above their difficulty

[wanton dawn]

You come here as a new guy with a wild take, don't expect goodwill by saying we are stupid

[gusty bison]

Like give a metaslave a Kantrael lasgun on auric damnation

[tiny summit]

This is like trying to say the most broken fighting character in a videogame is at the bottom because it requires the most execution

[slow spade]

Recons are the worst for forcing their team to have a sandbag

[gusty bison]

They wont last five minutes

[fresh ginkgo]

I've yet to see a bad player using the recon lasgun. Mainly because the Redditors and YouTubers do the soyface over the revolver at the moment

[gusty bison]

Because only good players can make the recon work

[wanton dawn]

Is this bait though ?

[gusty bison]

Thats not cos the gun is good

[wanton dawn]

I think its bait

[gusty bison]

Thats cos the gun is bad

[slow spade]

It absolutely is

But I'm at work

[fresh ginkgo]

It's not bait, I promise. I just want to understand why it's getting so much hate. I have an awesome time using it, I never feel like I'm sandbagging the team

[slow spade]

So I'm biting

[gusty bison]

Cos its the worst gun in the game

[wanton dawn]

It is not getting "hate". It is just, objectively, the worse gun performance wise

[gusty bison]

Do not rate a gun by the skill of its average wielder

Thats a disingenuous way to rate guns

[slow spade]

Someone posted video proof like 5 minutes ago of how low the dps of a recon is

[gusty bison]

Cos bad players will flock to the good guns

Since they can barely clear high diff with meta

[tiny summit]

The average redditor and player would tell you plasma isn't overtuned

[slow spade]

There's a difference between seeking understanding and willfully ignoring evidence lol

[timid otter]

Can i get the documents?

[slow spade]

Its funny because I saw a reddit post claim its underpowered

[fresh ginkgo]

Because it doesn't oneshot? Big deal. It has a high ammo pool, "ok" TTK and (usually) still makes back more ammo than it consumes if you melt a trapper's face

[gusty bison]

Like once again. Recon is C tier. That means "viable with effort". Its not "garbage dumpster fire"

[gusty bison]

It has... one of the worst ammo pools among vet guns though

[wanton dawn]

Here is the thing: take any recon build and replace recon with columnus

[gusty bison]

And slowest TTK

[tiny summit]

It really doesn't have a high ammo pool if it requires more shots and time comparatively to other weapons

[wanton dawn]

columnus will do better

[fresh ginkgo]

I use my own experiences as evidence. Though, I will acquiesce, it's beaten for DPS by the columnus, a friend-

Yeah

[tiny summit]

IAGs have more ammo econ than recons with shocktrooper

[gusty bison]

Agripinna IAG will do better

Vraks 3 will do better

MG 4 will do better

[timid otter]

give me those documents

[gusty bison]

Thats like... all the ADS rapid fire guns?

[slow spade]

Oh brb

[timid otter]

[wanton dawn]

And when I say ANY build, I mean any build. Even including shocktropper

[fresh ginkgo]

However at the same time, like I said before, I remain on white ammo while the rest of the team ends up on orange. A vet can't run out of ammo or he can't murder specials

[gusty bison]

Every vet gun does this though

And does it better than recon

[white minnow]

i also wouldn't use pubs as my estimate

[slow spade]

#veteran-class message

[wanton dawn]

I would

[slow spade]

Here's the one in question

[fresh ginkgo]

Having tried both, I disagree. Although, that might just be a skill issue on my part

[slow spade]

Pubs are the most common team type

[timid otter]

Ah i was expecting actual spreadsheets

[slow spade]

They absolutely count

[white minnow]

me outdamaging a kickback ogryn with the 6d recon 😔

[grizzled nimbus]

how would ya'll fix this? i assume crit for maniac or something and supercharge for slaughterer?

[slow spade]

Don't need them. The old ones are also out of date

[fresh ginkgo]

Pubs are the distillation of the "average player" though

[gusty bison]

Brutal momentum instead of supercharge

[slow spade]

There ARE legit damage sheets but this game doesn't need such detailed data

[fresh ginkgo]

You get some gods and some dumbasses

[gusty bison]

Not really.

[slow spade]

So it was discontinued

[fresh ginkgo]

And it's purely random

[tiny summit]

You have a bunch of obsessed Darktide autists here testing bullshit. Recons have been repeatedly found to be underwhelming this patch

[wanton dawn]

You could but there is too many variables to do something readable and aint got time for that

[gusty bison]

A lot of pubs are playing above their difficulty cos they are metaslaving

[grizzled nimbus]

ah yeah i forgot you can get that on power sword ty

[tiny summit]

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. I can play recons and do ok, doesn't mean any IAG won't just do better

[gusty bison]

Take away the plasma, revovler and columnus users and the rest Id say would be a good gauge of the average skill of a competent player on that diff

[slow spade]

Yeah I remember the pre-patch 13 datasheets and it was just "use mk12, bolter, shredder pistol, and Agri brauto"

Which is what everyone already knew lol

[gusty bison]

And agri brauto was only there in case u got bored of shredder

Lol

[fresh ginkgo]

Lowest C tier, but I'll defend to the death their right to be there

[slow spade]

Indeed

[fresh ginkgo]

They're not a meta pick but that's my gun goddamnit

[gusty bison]

... recons are mostly c tier though?

Only the really bad recon is D

And that one just inexplicably has like -20% dps

[fresh ginkgo]

That's the one I use

[slow spade]

There's only 1 D tier and its like half the dps of even a recon

[wanton dawn]

The surprise was the mk3 lucius cuz crab was pushing it

[fresh ginkgo]

||ALTHOUGH I WILL ADMIT, I STARTED USING IT ONLY BECAUSE IT MATCHED MY APPEARANCE||

[wanton dawn]

You play what you want though

[fresh ginkgo]

Then I just kinda got used to the play, then I started liking it some more and now it's my favourite vet gun

[wanton dawn]

No one will police what you play

[slow spade]

Lol yeah I remember people liking it for its 1-shot potential back then

[gusty bison]

Mhm

Like no gun is so bad its nonviable

Just some will need more effort than others

[slow spade]

Just don't double dip ammo boxes without asking 😔

Almost got to red ammo on my shotgun because a recon psyker picked up 3 ammo charges lol

[gusty bison]

Recons atm unfortunately are bottom of the barrel by virtue of everything elsr being better

[white minnow]

though the arithmetic average is not necessarily a good baseline to use in the case of balance

[gusty bison]

Thr averagr difficult is malice

So like

[fresh ginkgo]

True, though I will admit I had a lot of trouble making the 3shot vraks work