veteran-class

[junior needle]

Also can confirm that carapace stops flechette from spreading bleed on kant special shells, but it works on other armor

[faint beacon]

So that explains why when I spray into a horde with DB rounds the Crusher simple just acts as a meat shield

noted

[junior needle]

Also you want uncanny for flesh tearer

Because it affects your bleeds too

[timid otter]

Mmm i actually forgot to test knife breakpoints with precision strikes, 15% elite.

[junior needle]

Just don't use lacerate, god what a trap blessing

[placid portal]

^^

[junior needle]

Needs a rework

[wanton dawn]

Funny thunderous interaction: #veteran-class message

[placid portal]

waste attacks that would be weakpoint for 2 hit BPs

*unless you use punch but why do that

Might as well use smackdown

[faint beacon]

So is that happening because of thunderous?

just simply having it on your Axe causes it to do that

[wanton dawn]

Yup. Proc on dot when axe is out

[timid otter]

Blitz abilltys are affected by whatever weapon is currently out.

Including perks.

[faint beacon]

That is THE stupidest thing I've seen in Darktide so far

im interested

lmao

[wanton dawn]

Not meta

[timid otter]

Try throwing knives on zealot with uncanny strike

[placid portal]

ye But hilarious interaction

[faint beacon]

I simply do not care if its effective or not, brain fires dopamine when I see procs go crazy

[timid otter]

[placid portal]

If you use mod ye

Don't want to clutter my screen with numbers

[junior needle]

Uncanny is a buff directly to you, so it should work with anything while the buff lasts

[timid otter]

Yes 3 is enough to kill a crusher

[placid portal]

Crunching Crushas

[wanton dawn]

Ruined an attemp cuz of lag

[placid portal]

Damn

[wanton dawn]

Well, that is 150 crushers

No joke though: the most useful of those video for me was the 30 crushers melee only. Got me WAY better against getting caught pants down by crushers ambush

The rest ehhhh

For funzzy

[serene bough]

you never know, one day you may bump into a 150 crusher patrol

[placid portal]

modded darktide meme runs

[wanton dawn]

Standard no ammo maelstrom

4-5 crushers patrol are common

[serene bough]

Now all you need to do is stumble upon 30 5 crusher patrols at once and we'll be cooking

[wanton dawn]

10 crushers melee only is the top diff mechanically. Adding more is just about stamina (player, not stats)

If you can do 10, you can do 5

[placid portal]

battling crusher overheads with rashad overhead duels

[serene bough]

I struggle managing 5 crushers melee only personally

[wanton dawn]

I dont really use rashad so i wouldnt know

[serene bough]

Usually rely on frags to stagger so I can shank one or two down

[placid portal]

rashad vs crushers in a nutshell
*Heavy Heavy Dodge Heavy Heavy Heavy.........

[serene bough]

Meanwhile knife w/ uncanny spam push attack to victory

[wanton dawn]

For reference: #veteran-class message

[placid portal]

no punch stabbings?

[serene bough]

Only when stamina depleted

Push attack spam faster

[shadow dagger]

died to what i thought was poor situational awareness and proceeded to spectate a vet who completely forgot he had a melee weapon equipped

[junior needle]

I'm impressed by how much more effective a vet shooting into melee chaffe with a ciag is compared to a recon

Didn't even dip to red ammo once the whole game

And other people still got ammo pickups

[frank basin]

Me keep using Graia brauto on melee chaff enemies

[shadow dagger]

worst thing is he kept doing it when ogryn enemies got all up in there

he got grabbed by a mutant, thrown, defaulted to his chainsword

and swapped back

[frank basin]

What gun he’s using?

My brain switch to melee when there’s mutant

[wanton dawn]

Try agri brauto. It is an experience

[shadow dagger]

graia brauto i think

not the best anti armor

[placid portal]

isn't graia the one that shoots fasta when bracing?

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/cs-go-spray-ak47spray-gif-14631992

[shadow dagger]

what in the

brunt can drop t4 blessings

[sick marsh]

very rarely.

[jaunty sphinx]

HUH

That's crazy

[wanton dawn]

Agri brauto never braces

No reason to

More importantly: it cleaves

[frank ether]

bracing is a scam rn anyways

[dire olive]

Onslaught

Hose crushers

[sonic marlin]

not good right? Doubt opening salvo is a good thing

[shadow dagger]

pretty sure the gun itself is not the best

[sonic marlin]

i was told its the best lasgun, i mean i will probably never use it but just for collecting it would be nice

[shadow dagger]

I think the mk12 is the only one worth using unless you plan on wearing out your index finger

though I'm not terribly confident of that

[dire olive]

Mk12 has the lowest dps but does one shot most things

[agile forge]

MGXII is typically seen as being the least of the three now

[shadow dagger]

oh

[agile forge]

after the great numbers rejiggle

[sonic marlin]

yummers

[agile forge]

but fuck wearing my mouse out on the MG1a and MGIV

[shadow dagger]

the what huh

[sonic marlin]

if only it was a fucking rashad and not antax

[agile forge]

Patch 13 gave all the enemies more health to compensate for the new talent trees giving us more power. Also a lot of weapons got their numbers adjusted.

MGIa and MGIV were both beneficiaries of the change

which eroded the relative advantage MGXII had over them

[idle swallow]

MGXII is still fine it's just not the optimal choice anymore

[agile forge]

so now they have similar breakpoints but more RoF

[shadow dagger]

so a lot of the stuff that used to reach oneshot breakpoints don't anymore but the two shot breakpoints are piss easy to hit letting the higher rof versions shine?

oh

[agile forge]

tbh more things reach 1-shot breakpoints now than ever before I think

it's a better balance than it was

like my kickback on my ogryn now semi-reliably one-shots mutants when it wasn't before

Yeah, MGXII isn't exactly bad or anything

it's not like a pre-patch MGIa or MGIV

it's just a little bit less practical than either of them

[dire olive]

Still fun to throw a scope on with the weapon customisation mod and larp a laser dmr

I like it more than Helbore there I said it

I hate charge ups

[agile forge]

Helbore is a melee weapon I thought

[sonic marlin]

Why does it feel like you have better odds on winning auric maelstrom than normal one? After I didn't dodge the trapper shit hit the fan

Why do lvl 19 people join it

[agile forge]

because of your second message lol.

[tidal reef]

any good recon gun build?

[sonic marlin]

god i'm never doing low visibility mission ever again

and they put 5 demonhosts in just to fuck with you

[tidal reef]

smth smth tzench

[sonic marlin]

what

[tidal reef]

just as planned

[sonic marlin]

i just realized this was my first auric damnation

nice

[tidal reef]

wait till you meet the buster conga line then

[sonic marlin]

what frame is hardest to earn

i really like this one since it glows

special condition is anything that has this kind of icon right?

[trim hemlock]

Probably the mission type grind frames, unless you really tunnel-vision maps like Hab Dreyko, no matter the difficulty level, and I suppose that the one that requires you to play 1500 missions in total (it’s just a lot of missions, frankly, I only have gotten it recently at 1400 hours)

[sonic marlin]

love playing with bots

[tough tiger]

@sonic marlin lmao noob

Just spam ping to avoid dhost

Or better yet, dont play low vis

[sonic marlin]

i couldn't fucking see

[tough tiger]

Sniper gauntlet is more fun

[sonic marlin]

is it the same low visibility?

[tough tiger]

Not quite

It's foggy

[sonic marlin]

i got one available

[tough tiger]

But u can still see

[sonic marlin]

ill try

if the fucking light didn't trigger dhost it would be fine

[tough tiger]

Sniper laser still visible as ever

[sonic marlin]

ok it was kinda shit

got this out of it

[tough tiger]

Get thrust at least

[tough tiger]

It's fun

Just bring sth u can snipe with

[sonic marlin]

i won't use it

the axe

[graceful plover]

I'm so close to getting lvl 30 in vet

Also, bonking Rinda with Krak grenade is best feeling

[sonic marlin]

i just realized its you and not some random on the server

rename urself smh

[terse idol]

Just turn it off when you're close ro dhosts on lights out 😌

[sonic marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/dude-no-way-eric-cartman-kyle-broflovski-south-park-s16e10-gif-23122674

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-gif-24395495

[terse idol]

[crude ermine]

No

[vague lintel]

Very good actually

Probably second best to uncanny

[bitter turtle]

Uncanny and riposte or precog is my recommendation

I'd roll more knives tbh weakpsot dmg is really bad

It's not 10 percent of your total dmg on a weakspot

[vague lintel]

If your stuck with one the first one

[bitter turtle]

It's 10 percent of the bonus dmg from hitting a weakspot

[vague lintel]

But yeah weakspot is unfort

[bitter turtle]

So if u do 100 dmg on body and 150 on weakspot, it's only 10 percent of the bonus 50

So only +5 dmg

I meant the perk

Mercy killer is an OK blessing that has a talent tax is all, forced to run serrated

Perk not blessing

Ya idk why the weakspot dmg values are so low if that's how it works

10 percent makes sense if it calculated off total dmg

[vague lintel]

Crit damage is the same way

[bitter turtle]

Yep

[tiny summit]

Fine. Just you can get a better one

[terse idol]

Infested is worthless saddly

[tiny summit]

It's fine to run until something better

[bitter turtle]

Slaughterer is a b tier blessing and infested is bad

But

Sword is op

So it probably works alright

[terse idol]

Yeah thats fine

[sonic marlin]

will work but eh doo doo kinda

[terse idol]

Its not doo doo

[bitter turtle]

Pcycle+ sunder or brutal momentum

[terse idol]

What the hell

[bitter turtle]

Sunder for packs of elites

[tiny summit]

Yea. Blaze Away is dmg but also requires immediately firing again for more dmg. I like gloryhunter

[sonic marlin]

will work but can be better

doo doo

[bitter turtle]

Bromentum for hordes

[terse idol]

Its like baseline

[bitter turtle]

It's passable but b tier like I said

[vague lintel]

Slaugt isnd bad just brutal momentum is fucking absurd

[terse idol]

Its hard to get better cause you don't really have other breakpoints to build for it smhh

[bitter turtle]

Aim for cycler and sunder/bromentum

[tiny summit]

Think of it like this. Energized power sword is already killing everything. Do you really need slaughterer?

[bitter turtle]

Sunder let's you cleave more ragers in packs of them

Bromentum let's you mince hordes easier

Cycler is mandatory

Yes

[vague lintel]

Yea

[bitter turtle]

Or sunder and cycler

Both work

[vague lintel]

Even cycler 3 is fine

[bitter turtle]

And nah

Pick 2/3

Maniac carapace unyielding

[slow spade]

I'd personally go maniac for the mutant one hit

[bitter turtle]

Maniac one-shot mutants

Carapace two shot crushers

Unyielding one shot bulwark and boss dmg

You have to tinker with your trees a bit but

[slow spade]

Go Infested to kill bursters faster 💪💪💪

[bitter turtle]

For some of them I mean

[tiny summit]

When I'm bayonet stab happy and a burster leaps around a corner

[bitter turtle]

I would probably suggest grabbing unyielding Maniac and then taking ogryn dmg on the tree which gives you carapace 2 shot anyway

But it depends on your tree

[slow spade]

Agile Engagement also gives the breakpoint

Though I use ping keystone

I love agile engagement 😩

[sharp epoch]

i feel like they need a harder mode cause even malestroms are a cakewalk with one good team mate

[slow spade]

Clearly you need to queue for standard maelstroms

All the maelstrom difficulty + shitty teammates 💪

[terse idol]

Just queue for heresey

[sharp epoch]

thats even easier cause i normally dont solo queue

[serene sage]

Helldive difficulty it is

[sharp epoch]

HELLDIVE WOULD BE EASY IF MY TEAM DIDNT KILL ME 10 TIMES

[slow spade]

Helldiver needs more friendly fire

Assail tracking on my teammate's head pls

[wanton dawn]

You got a shootable face, sorry mate

[sharp epoch]

its more them calling down airstrikes on me than shooting

[tiny summit]

Director teeter-tottering between murderous intent and asleep

[native furnace]

There used to be one where mobs had way more health. Broke all the breakpoints. Not sure why they seem to have retired that.

[sharp epoch]

its cause people complained it was too hard

[native furnace]

Elite Resistance was it.

[terse idol]

There are some busted things in helldivers ima be real

Also I run the 380mm, I don't can't blame my team for dying to it becuase its HUGE

And very random 😌

[wanton dawn]

Nah, it was just whatever

Trivialized by bolter

[slow spade]

Iirc elite resistance was a lot of psyker shield hugging

[terse idol]

Woops

Me as I get the wrong convo

[native furnace]

It was certainly a slower pace when you got a bunch of gunners spawning.

[crude ermine]

Brain skip

[terse idol]

😌

[slow spade]

Lol indeed

[crude ermine]

Hnnrrnng

[vague lintel]

well said luna

[crude ermine]

Thank you English I studied 3 years

[agile forge]

Elite resistance was so easy though

Like it was boring and shit

[vague lintel]

elite resist was ass yeah

oh boy what will i ever do about 2 shotgunners

[agile forge]

Interesting experiment

[slow spade]

Elite resist + High Inten pls

[agile forge]

Kinda enjoyed the first couple of games

But no staying power

Also I got really excited about trying a Thunder Hammer on it

Charged up, Thrust IV, swung at a gunner

And the karker didn't even flinch

Was the moment when I realised "fuck this dogshit"

[slow spade]

Maybe Reapers would finally be scary

[wanton dawn]

I got downed once cuz back then ps could stagger crusher but not on this mod

[native furnace]

See, THAT was the core. They needed more mobs.

[slow spade]

All gunners

[vague lintel]

one day reapers will be more than a windtunnel

[wanton dawn]

Bolter is back on the menu boys

[agile forge]

The day when we don't all have +20% Gunner resistance x3?

[slow spade]

Fatshark making the perfect shitstorm of Elite Resis + maelstrom + nurgle blessing

[wanton dawn]

Bolter against elite shooter is stupidly fun

[slow spade]

I don't think reapers get affected by it

[wanton dawn]

Litteral one shot one kill

[tiny summit]

Nurgle blessed poxburster waves

[terse idol]

You only ever need 2x 😌

And yeah I think it's only heavy gunner

[tiny summit]

Oh and immune to each other

[agile forge]

Oh crap really?

[terse idol]

Unless FS is willing to redesign many perks we're kinda stuck

[agile forge]

Thought it helped on all machine gun type enemies

[terse idol]

Nope

[agile forge]

I know it doesn't affect shotgunners

[terse idol]

It doesnt help with regular gunners

[slow spade]

Works vs dreg and scab gunners

No one else

[agile forge]

I don't mean the little shooty bois, but yeah

TIL

[serene sage]

listen man, the titan won't kill itself. we thank you for your sacrifice.

[serene sage]

do you dive? add me UwU

we are calling down so many danger close airstrikes

[slow spade]

Sadly waiting till the weekend

But I want to c:

[raw steppe]

i'm still trying to figure out

a bunch of mechanics in the game

like why sometimes strats stick to enemies

and sometimes they bounce off

[slow spade]

Helldivers is funny in that you just have the learn shit from others or trial and error

[final stone]

https://youtu.be/5oNpb0dLNhE?si=K4bZ0L1IKN7Q70H0

PERTEC

LIDLWUNS

[raw steppe]

Been trying to push higher difficulty

[final stone]

DAT IS JUB

O N L Y JUB

IF SMOLS GITN URT AN I KETCHA LETN IT APN

[raw steppe]

And it gets kinda crazy

[final stone]

AM GUNNA TEL YER MUM

[raw steppe]

You really need to go out of your way

To reduce the stalkers and patrols that spawn

Otherwise its really easy to get screwed

[terse idol]

They seem to only stick on heavy enemies like chargers

But uh

Unfortunately it doesn't make it any more accurate

My PRECISION STRIKE that I stuck to this charger will not hit

[raw steppe]

Orbitals afaik land where they originally activate

[terse idol]

Yeahh

[raw steppe]

But orbitals kinda stuck tbh

Orbitals and laser weapons

[terse idol]

🥹

[raw steppe]

Are quite underwhelming

In this game

[terse idol]

I love my very dangerous and very random orbital artillery strike

[slow spade]

I'll try to add you when I get the game going c:

Haven't played beyond tutorial and stuff atm

People already doing diff 9 solo runs lol

[terse idol]

Yeah I was watching woolie do 1 and uh whew

[serene sage]

Woolie cheesed the shit of out it though

Dip dick dive never shoot

[terse idol]

You haave to, and even with 4's sometimes the best option is to keep running

Its the infinite horde generation because sometimes I'm fighting with my friends we take 3 or 5 minutes beating back a bunch of chargers or hulks

Then a random ass patrol decides to waltz over and sends another

[slow spade]

Sometimes the strongest fortress is brought down by a single fast boi UwU

[tiny summit]

Dip dick

[tall torrent]

dreg/scab gunner & reaper

[serene sage]

Lmao I'm not fixing that

[agile forge]

So I was right?

[tall torrent]

Going from 2x gunner resist to 3x gunner resist is diminishing returns

1x: 80% dmg
2x: 64% dmg
3x: 51.2% dmg

[agile forge]

The question was about if it affected reapers

[tall torrent]

Yea it does

[agile forge]

And also diminishing returns or not, it's still worthwhile imo

It's not even really diminishing, depending on the scale you look at it with

[tall torrent]

I’d suggest running 1 or 2, but going all 3 seems less worth

[agile forge]

Each one you add does reduce the damage you take from the Gunner by 20% relative to the previous "tier"

[tall torrent]

I’ve personally had a better experience running a mix of 2s and 1s

[agile forge]

I find gunners are just so dangerous that it helps to go to the extreme

[tall torrent]

Depends on the class & build

[agile forge]

It's forced damage

[tiny summit]

In reality curio perk choices are just personal and inconsequential

[agile forge]

All the other resistances are mitigating errora

Errors

But gunners are huge consistent area denial

It pays to be able to shrug them off

[tall torrent]

Again, depends on class & build

[agile forge]

Maybe less for a veteran, I play the other 3 more tbh

Vet has lots of other stuff to survive taking shots and can return fire with a suppression ignoring plasma or something

[slow spade]

I find gunner resist unnecessary

Why not just counterfire at that point

[tiny summit]

I just stand out in the open counter firing as vet

[slow spade]

Indeed

I run the 5% toughness regen talent and it covers all my gunner needs

[atomic zephyr]

unless you take three +wound curios
then you're handicapping yourself

[tiny summit]

ET + CK + Catch a Breath with Iron Will basically makes you invincible against gunner rooms. Unless there's a reaper that's shooting in my back that I never noticed

[tiny summit]

6 wound ogryns in my games

[slow spade]

Me putting 3 wound curios on my Vet so I heal by going down near allies when I'm low UwU

[tall torrent]

Helbore and laspistol also have built-in suppression immunity

[sonic marlin]

man helldivers is fun

[midnight totem]

Wait what?

[tall torrent]

Yea ur aim won’t waver with those guns when getting suppressed by gunners

[midnight totem]

This changes much

Actually might not change that much. I've been getting used to my vraks 8 again after days of laspistoling and lasgun 1a

There was a moment where I killed 7 spread out gunners in three seconds. Hard to replicate with most other guns

[slender turtle]

Dont tell fs this, they might actually remove that nifty feature

[tall torrent]

Veteran should honestly have suppression immunity takes into the class at a baseline level

[slender turtle]

As much as i agree, a veteran is a veteran. They shouldnt be shaken by bullets flying by, it might make the game that much easier for them

[umbral scaffold]

i wouldnt mind a rework on the skill tree again or a change on some features of supression

[tall torrent]

Also this means “between the eyes” blessing for laspistol is irrelevant lol

[shadow dagger]

laspistol feels so like

dinky

to me for some reason

[slender turtle]

Just dont tell the players that

[shadow dagger]

it could oneshot crushers and I would probably still think it needs more oomph

[tall torrent]

U mean mk2 or mk10

[shadow dagger]

the og

[tall torrent]

I guess? It has very little recoil going on so prob that

But I like it for the low recoil aspect lol

[shadow dagger]

yeah as a tool it's probably nice but I'm distracted so much by the fact that I can fire off twenty shots and watch the reticle jiggle less than an amateur OF creator that I don't notice I'm killing most specials with minimal effort

it feels so underwhelming to shoot

[atomic zephyr]

try the slower firing one

feels like a laser deagle

i treat it like a pocket MGXII, does me very well

also oneshot-headshots most specialists which is nice

[wet elk]

jesus christ wtf is melk smoking

[shadow dagger]

we love gloryhunter we love gloryhunter

[tiny summit]

Glory hunter good

[umbral scaffold]

krieg build anyone?

[tall torrent]

It has pretty bad maniac dmg

[tiny summit]

Depends. Full marksman, VoC marksman or bayonet?

[umbral scaffold]

just looking for ideas for playing a valid one with randoms (VoC i suppose)

[atomic zephyr]

huh, does it? seems to take out ragers pretty easily either way
still, it makes a good alternative to the accatran laspistol which i really dont like

[tiny summit]

I prefer exe, feel free to drop shock trooper or detour for survivalist on VoC

[umbral scaffold]

this part of the tree is really worth it?

[tiny summit]

Depends. CK is what allows you to have loads of toughness counter firing rooms of gunners. Tried exe builds w/o CK and I don't like them as much.

A combination of ET, CK, Catch A Breath, Iron Will and some MF stacks, you're basically never getting toughness broken at range

[hearty panther]

That trio is way too stacked to ignore.

[junior needle]

Why go down the right side of the beginning

[hearty panther]

Because right side is also strong.

Center is just stupid strong.

[tiny summit]

Because he asked for a build and it's one I'm experimenting with because Out for Blood itself is nice

[slow spade]

Bruh those are like the strongest defensive perks Vet has until like Iron Will

[hearty panther]

When your first node is 11-33% TDR the next two nodes after are almost irrelevant. But one of them is CK lol

[junior needle]

Gotta get that stamina reduction on sprinting

[tiny summit]

Most valuable

[hearty panther]

It's sprint cost on the weapon.

Very big actually.

[tiny summit]

I gotta have the stamina to make space when dumping aggro with infil

[junior needle]

[hearty panther]

If it were 20% sprint efficiency like the Zealot's node it would be pretty blah.

But it's -.2 off the sprint cost of your weapon.

[slow spade]

Lol who sprints? Sorry I got to crab walk for Marksmen stacks 💅💅

[hearty panther]

And then sprint efficiency applies.

So it adds up pretty significantly.

[umbral scaffold]

got it

[tiny summit]

Everyone else's input is also correct and valid

[slow spade]

:D

[umbral scaffold]

on lasgun ? mk1, mk2 or 3?

[slow spade]

I miss when right side had the "stack brittleness per hit" node instead of "melee crit"

[slow spade]

1 and 2 for Bayonet

3 if you want big damage and can compensate for shit bayonet

[shadow dagger]

okay what

[lost portal]

Helllbore my beloved

[shadow dagger]

how do the two interact that way

[umbral scaffold]

ok, so maybe i undarstand where i took vet wrong for thoughness regen, is about to stack microbonuses alltoghether

[slow spade]

The Omnissiah works in mysterious ways

[slow spade]

You mean toughness regen on curios?

[lost portal]

Hey, I’ve got a build you might like. It’s pretty simple and fun for the whole family.

[slow spade]

Shredder + all grenade nodes

[lost portal]

Close

[acoustic sapphire]

I'm building a new knife, and want to use the MK 3, since I already have a good MK 6.
Would Ruthless Backstab be a better blessing than Mercy Killer? I don't have the level 4 Rending blessing yet.

[lost portal]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9acba373-8bf4-4471-b5a0-332e0992e9d5/professional-detriment

[slow spade]

Smh not taking recon

[umbral scaffold]

i've got one with bleed stacks on bleed stacks on my zaelot....that build bleed stacks🤣

[raw steppe]

usually you want uncanny + mercy if you have bleed node, or uncanny+precog if you don't.

[wanton dawn]

Goal is to make shittiest build possible ?

[raw steppe]

the bleed blessings suck and are a huge noob trap unfortunately

[slow spade]

Indeed, brb asking reddit for a good build

[acoustic sapphire]

I want to have the best knife I can. I already have a good bleed stack on the MK 6 knife.

[lost portal]

Not just bad, detrimental. I want to actively make the game harder for the rest of the team.

[hearty panther]

If your weapon sprint cost is 1, and you have 3x sprint efficiency, it's now .55/s

[junior needle]

Wut da fug

[hearty panther]

With that Veteran node, it's now .8 base cost and then the 45% applies

[shadow dagger]

sorry but I think you're massively overestimating the knowledge I have on this

[hearty panther]

Knives and laspistols basically rin forever.

Run*

[shadow dagger]

what's the difference between cost and efficiency

[hearty panther]

Cost is the number efficiency works against.

[junior needle]

Well just make sure you’re taking uncanny and NOT using lacerate if that’s your goal

[lost portal]

I JUST GOT AN IDEA.
A NO GOOD, TERRIBLE IDEA.

[junior needle]

Also if you primarily light spam, mk3 is the better knife

[shadow dagger]

so sprint cost usually comes from the weapon held and efficiency is usually 0% until it comes from somewhere like a skill or curio

[hearty panther]

Correct.

[junior needle]

Put the mk2 recon in your gun slot and don’t take any rending?

[shadow dagger]

and removing sprint cost is much rarer but also way better than getting sprint efficiency?

[lost portal]

Wait no. You can just use your normal shove to push bursters into your team.

[hearty panther]

Also correct

[lost portal]

The recon gives you some hope of clearing out gunner and stalker packs though.

[slow spade]

I wonder if you can actually play bad enough to get vote kicked

Or is the skill floor that low

[wanton dawn]

I think I have a good base here

[lost portal]

There was only one time I’ve ever seen a votekick on someone who wasn’t afk, and it was a zealot who refused to drop the med crate despite literally everyone on the team begging for it.

[umbral scaffold]

keep their heads down has any value?

[wanton dawn]

Here ya go

[slow spade]

Based

[slow spade]

Lol nice

[tiny summit]

Don't take covering fire, that gives toughness to the team

[junior needle]

You underestimate how shit the damage on that thing is

[wanton dawn]

There is a twist

Look at my weapon perks

[junior needle]

Lowest dps gun in the game, easily

[raw steppe]

Lv3 of a Good blessing is better than Lv4 of a Shit one (like lacerate)

[tiny summit]

You can still kill a poxwalker for the team

[wanton dawn]

That is the point

This is horde hoose recon

[tiny summit]

Born Leader would probably be even less

No toughness for recon mag dumping into the horde

[wanton dawn]

The build that should not exist

Because it give you the worst game plan of all

[slow spade]

Post on the reddit and watch someone unironically try it UwU

[wanton dawn]

Honestly for this i should try to make it look good

You know what ? that's a good freaking idea

[slow spade]

After seeing people play Starsector on the Reddit, I now know there's no such thing as a "bad" player

Only progressively worse players

[tiny summit]

Recon users think they're him

[wanton dawn]

Alright, I call this one: "IDK what I want to do"

[slow spade]

The ammo dump build

[tiny summit]

Survivalist spotted. Instant team value

[wanton dawn]

You do not understand

It is one thing to make it purposefully bad

It is another to make it realistically bad

[slow spade]

True

[junior needle]

When you shoot into melee chaffe and run out of ammo in the first room💯

[slow spade]

I've seen players mod their game because their comp is so bad they need mods to justify their playstyle

[tiny summit]

True. Vape nation is only 7 wasted points and 1 still provides value to team

[wanton dawn]

To be played with this

[slow spade]

Lol

[tiny summit]

Why couldn't poxwalker/groaner dmg be like the largest dmg bonus perk. Yea yea shooting into chaff and all that we shouldn't do. It's like the least useful dmg perk but they could've at least juiced its bonus

[junior needle]

Take both the salvo blessings for optimal big shit

[tiny summit]

No dmg blessing recon

[toxic leaf]

buff recon las when

[junior needle]

Or actually, run stripped down to sprint at ammo packs ahead of your team in safety

[junior needle]

Probably never at this point

[toxic leaf]

next update huhu

[slow spade]

Knife recon + invis build that plays like a knife zealot UwU

[idle swallow]

"DMG up 5%, nerfed infernus max stacks on blessings to half their previous values"

[slow spade]

Honestly it'd be funny if they just gave sledgehammer nerfs for like no reason

"Removed Headhunter from Recon"

[frank ether]

exec build with agile engagement indeed fitting that name lmao

[slow spade]

"Recon given inverse damage dropoff"

[tiny summit]

Optimal bolter gun bashing

[lost portal]

Maximum ammo capacity reduced to 40.
Spread increased by 720 Degrees.
Damage reduced by 70.
Recoil increased to 70.

[slow spade]

Indeed

[tiny summit]

Increased brightness and saturation of lasers vfx

[slow spade]

Just the dumbest shit for no reason

[idle swallow]

I played anarchy gage in BL2 I'm ready for it

[slow spade]

Anarchy Gage with sound on 😎

[lost portal]

Oh you want stupid?

Damage set to 10000.
Magazine capacity reduced to 1.
Max ammo reserve reduced to 10.

[final stone]

oh my god

[slow spade]

Lascannon time UwU

[final stone]

yall see what they found datamining the game files

[slow spade]

Lol

Oh shit

[tiny summit]

Liar

[lost portal]

PIERCING?

[slow spade]

Oh

:c

[idle swallow]

https://youtu.be/gq9zx_xvEdw?si=0qPU4VK8SbmsEMHf

[lost portal]

Oh, VS armor.

[slow spade]

"All Classes"

[wanton dawn]

PPl are too focused on making build as "bad" as possible but they forget the most important thing

a build that looks like it might work is worse than a terrible one

[slow spade]

That randoms will always have worse UwU

[wanton dawn]

Also that

[slow spade]

Honestly I should go around the Mourningstar and just post people's builds and ask for advice

[timid otter]

Weapons with 495 combination of variables to consider for breakpoints...

[slow spade]

See what kind of shit I get into

[wanton dawn]

Well, you know what ? Lets do it

[slow spade]

Sadly at work

Or otherwise I would

Honestly sounds fun

[wanton dawn]

First look: lvl 23

It is a recon build

[timid otter]

need help

[slow spade]

LOL

[timid otter]

pls

everyone

[slow spade]

Truly they can make anything worse

[terse idol]

Stop running the tree so wide

[slow spade]

The fuck

I'm not even sure what the idea is

[wanton dawn]

2nd look: kantrael mgIa

[terse idol]

Waiit wilmer is just baiting smh

[slow spade]

MG La, no krak

Pain

[terse idol]

Shredder is just better

[wanton dawn]

3rd look: revolver

[slow spade]

No rending to speak of

So shredder is just delay

[slow spade]

I like the node focus

I wonder if they ever throw them

[wanton dawn]

3rd one has an idea

[terse idol]

I'm like, accepted that my anti armour is butts so I run an anti armour melee

[wanton dawn]

But from the look of it: ppl value suppression immunity a lot

[slow spade]

3rd is trying

Yeah I noticed that too

[terse idol]

I run exe and MF for my Ia yeah I feel its mandatory

[slow spade]

I'm surprised all 3 rsn suppression immunity

[timid otter]

The only bad talent here is serrated blades

[slow spade]

But Exe gives very high suppression resist

[junior needle]

They did this in patch 14 with the shock trooper changes AND the crit string nerfs

[slow spade]

Its largely unneeded

[slow spade]

True

[acoustic sapphire]

Is this a good build? I'll have to pour in a ton more resources before I can make something better.

[terse idol]

For the times I don't have exe😌

[wanton dawn]

Hey, look what I found !

Columnus

[slow spade]

Recon was usable for a time

[lost portal]

Shock trooper got changed?

[slow spade]

Based

[wanton dawn]

Honestly, its pretty fun

to look at random build

[slow spade]

Man saw Infil and thought "yes"

I wish I could

Sadly at work :c

I actually do that while waiting on friend

You see some hilarious builds

[lost portal]

Maelstrom but your build is randomized.

[wanton dawn]

Alright, time to play one

I think you know this one

[junior needle]

Only for crit strings. Instead of applying to every crit, it’s now only the first one in a string. Only affects the recon because no other lasguns have them.

[lost portal]

Tragic

[junior needle]

Extremely

[acoustic sapphire]

I have the level 3 blessings for those. I need to unlock the level 4's.

[junior needle]

I’d go flak over maniacs

Much more likely to be whacking flak in melee

[timid otter]

Maniac doesnt really help with any BPs on the catachan mk 3

The only interesting one is on mutants.

Knife already 1-shots flamers, tox-flamers, trappers with h1 headshots.

[idle swallow]

The mutant one shot activates the happy neurons in my brain tho

[lost portal]

Completely fair argument

[timid otter]

Mk 3
S
Unyielding. Crit chance, flak, Elites
A
stamina, carapace
B
Maniacs, weak spot damage.
C
Sprint efficiency, Unarmored, infested, crit damage
Near useless
Block efficiency, groaner/poxwalker, specialists

Elites is good on mk 3 if running 15% elite talent, desperado, 10% melee damage otherwise don't run it.

This testing was done with 80% in every stat on knife

[paper furnace]

you will have to rip this out of my dead hands

i dont care if its garbage, faster boltgun has been on my wishlist for months

||even if its faked via mod||

[junior needle]

Probably comparable to the good revolver judging off the damage and surgical

Oh true

Pranked

[paper furnace]

[final stone]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-celebration-gif-23199880

see yall again this time next month

when I get the next graduating class

[bitter turtle]

what if for april fools

any blessing on any weapon

[final stone]

hm

[bitter turtle]

what would be the god combo

[final stone]

I will have to think long and hard about that lie

[bitter turtle]

shower thoughts

[rigid lichen]

can you upgrade an upgrade on a weapon? like I start with FUll Bore level 1 and then replace it later when i find a higher level blessing?

[bitter turtle]

it takes one of the 2 slots you're allowed to reroll

so "yes"

but not really

[rigid lichen]

suppose I have used both slots, can I modify and existing upgraded slot?

[bitter turtle]

no

er

[rigid lichen]

thanks

[bitter turtle]

yes if it was one of the ones you modified

no if it was not

[radiant chasm]

yes

you can modify any 2 slots as much as you like

[rigid lichen]

T_T amazing, thanks, the slot machines have been cruel today

[stone dome]

do we have some comprehensive up to date guide on vet like ogrynomicon or the psyker one?

[wanton dawn]

no

[stone dome]

sadge

[umbral garnet]

I have never heard of the Ogrynomicon and it is now one of my favourite words.

[stone dome]

ikr

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3044646170

found it

[wise fossil]

Still waiting on the Veteranomicon

[stone dome]

doesn't sound as catchy so it ain't happenin

[idle swallow]

Vet's Declassified Imperium Survival Guide

[wanton dawn]

The veterocroum

[stone dome]

Veterenarium

[wise fossil]

And the Zealotome

Zealotreatise

[stone dome]

Holy scripture part 1

Holy scripture part 2

Holy scri~

[timid otter]

Veterans dont need guides

Thats why they are called veterans

[stone dome]

nah, but it would be nice to have an easy access to all breakpoint/stat data

[timid otter]

Ima be honest with you

Theres no way that anyone can consider every single breakpoint

Theres 11 damage perks in the game.

There is atleast 8 ways to increase melee damage in the talent tree of veteran

The amount of combinations that can be combined is insane.

Even the ogrynomicon likely lies to you at points.

[stone dome]

no, but if you are building say a rashad axe, you want to know your breakpoints, then theres is the constantly changing weapon and blessing meta, then there is the skilltree that changes every patch

[timid otter]

Im saying the breakpoints change depending on the talent tree

[stone dome]

a lot of up-to-date notes that would be nice to have is what im getting at

[stone dome]

better than nothing at all mate

[timid otter]

I belive theres like 495 combinations of perks, damage talents that can be combined on a melee weapon.

[stone dome]

humanity has been compounding utter bullshit on the internet since 2014, this is so much more objective

[timid otter]

Then you have to take this combination and look at it for every single enemy in the game.

Not feasible.

Instead rough estimates have to be used.

[stone dome]

it pretty much makes sense to do only on 'first hit' effects, even then only if it's any good on the given weapon

if we are talking mercy and slaughterer type effects then who gives a shit, enemy is going down on your 2nd/3rd/4th hit in a chain anyway

[timid otter]

Best way to probably find out breakpoints is for the player themselves to choose a build, test it out on a weapon without perks

Then see what they can change with the perks added on.

I can make claims about what is best but i unforunantely cannot do every scenario.

[stone dome]

except not everyone mods their game or has the time to test everything, or straight up wants to spent the time and effort. then there is me hopping over many classes and it a nightmare to keep everything in mind

[timid otter]

Well some sacrifices have to be made in terms of using optimized gear.

And if its thats a couple of minutes in the psykanium then yeah.

Ill still try to do my best in trying to find the most optimal breakpoints for reasonable builds, talents, even without talents.

Easiest way to likely play the game is to hop onto a build that has been relentessly tested, then play with

Becuase such a build will ensure that all the breakpoints are already met.

Also by the way if someone is looking to test weapon breakpoints, id be happy to do it with you.

[candid vapor]

The Psyklopedia

I'm confused by the ranged portion of Weapon Specialist. If I stack to ten rangerd expert, do my next 10 shots have +33% crit chance, or is it still the first shot, but I get extra rof only?

[atomic zephyr]

breakpoint mfs when they have to click more than once or something

[candid vapor]

Ah thanks. That's lame

[terse idol]

To be fair testing a BP is fast enouugh

And doesn't need mods

Open the psykanarium

Shoot the enemy boom

[midnight totem]

First shot is extra crit only but you keep the rof

[terse idol]

Well also

I learned that Guns like CIAG' works on crit chains

So in theory you can shoot a ciag with weapon spec with 10 stacks you get technically get a few more than 1 crit

Because of the crit chain

[midnight totem]

Crit chains?

[terse idol]

Iirc, for many automatic weapons when you get a crit the next few shots will also be crits

Hence the crit chain

[thick needle]

What's the difference between the different Helbore lasguns

[slender turtle]

How fast they fire and how much power is behind each shot

[thick needle]

Guessing the mk 1 is the one that charges fastest

[slender turtle]

and coincidentally is the weakest in damage for the 3

[thick needle]

shit

[tall torrent]

Crit chance buff only applies to the first shot, RoF buff stays for the whole 5s duration

[junior needle]

Crit strings, also yes. You get extra crits after the first crit

[thick needle]

And I was all excited for my Krieg cosplay build

[junior needle]

But those extra crits cannot proc more crit strings

[tall torrent]

Mk2 is the lowest dmg one

[slender turtle]

Is it?

Thoguht it was the mk 1

[tall torrent]

This is still pretty bricked tho

[tall torrent]

Mk2 rapid fire low dmg
Mk1 general purpose
Mk3 high dmg low charge speed + bad bayonet

[slender turtle]

ok

[thick needle]

wait wdym bad bayonet lmao

their BAYONET DAMAGE changes??

[tall torrent]

As in, the bayonet move is very bad

Mk1 and mk2 have the same bayonet move (very good)

[thick needle]

So I'm seeing mk2 kind sucks, mk1 is good, mk3 is peak

[tall torrent]

That’s the actual opposite tbh

[terse idol]

Well also the difference in the bayonett

The mk3's bayonet is kinda stinky

[tall torrent]

Mk2 is very strong, mk1 is good, mk3 is very unwieldy

[terse idol]

The mk1 and mk2's bayonetts are some of the best melee weapons in the game

[thick needle]

Never used lasguns before

[slender turtle]

~~Just use plasma ~~

[terse idol]

NO

[thick needle]

What do you want to max/dump for plasma

[terse idol]

Escape the plasma

[terse idol]

Max damage, dump Charge rate 😌

Max TR

[thick needle]

So this is good?

[tall torrent]

You generally want a balanced spread of 70+ across all 5 stats but prioritize damage and stopping power

Thermal resist needs 70% to be able to fire 8 shots continuously before venting

[tall torrent]

No

[slender turtle]

I remember the days of plasma sucking

[junior needle]

Think it was like 6 months or so before they removed it doing damage directly to your health

[flint lake]

Looks good be sure to grab unarmored +25% but otherwise plasmas are unbrickable

Ammo sucks which is disappointing but shouldn’t be a huge issue

Plasma blessings are mostly unimportant

[thick needle]

Tbh Plasma has never really appealed to me

I tried my hardest to enjoy bolters, and failed

[midnight totem]

I hope you have a cleave blessing and flak on that

[flint lake]

Bolters aren’t as great as they used to be

[muted knot]

Survivalist aura go brrrr

[flint lake]

Best way to run them now is to treat them as a semi automatic rifle scoring headshots and Criting

[thick needle]

I've only been trying to learn the lasguns because I want to make a lore accurate lasgun +shovel build for my Krieg drip

I got a semi decent k12 las, but it just depends on aiming too hard (i suck)

[flint lake]

Try the revolver

[thick needle]

I prefer the revolver on Zealot

[muted knot]

Mk12 is just a bit sad compared to the other lasguns

[thick needle]

really

I kept reading k12 was the best

[muted knot]

It just didn't get buffs like the other 2

[flint lake]

You’ll wanna grab the mod that turns all weapons into automatics

[thick needle]

Which one is better now, Kant mk3 or IA

[muted knot]

The middle one imo

You can play both of them without full auto mod but the faster one is just eh

[thick needle]

Which one is middle

[muted knot]

The uhhhh

1a

[terse idol]

I mean you can play it to mag dump monsters too

[junior needle]

That's because the other 2 were even more sad before then

[terse idol]

You know how fast a pogryn goes down when you hit Exe focus target, and a combat stim

Preeetty fast

Especially if you hit headshots

[terse idol]

The issue being the DPS compared to the Ia lasgun

Is smaller

The 12 only gets 40 damage over the Ia

And the slower fire rate actually means it's doing less DPS

[midnight totem]

K12 has better headshots

[terse idol]

Hardly

[junior needle]

It was previously

[midnight totem]

It's much more of a marksman rifle

[junior needle]

1a has supplanted the k12 post buff

[terse idol]

You'll be augmenting your shots just the same with Exe and MF

[flint lake]

You can but it’s suboptimal

[terse idol]

Its... really not

[midnight totem]

Oh he's using exe stance

[terse idol]

Because you its still able to deal with specials

[midnight totem]

Nm, yeah IA is better

[terse idol]

You just can build it also to delete bosses

Bosses, crushers

Mutants

Maulers

I honestly think the bolter is actually balanced

The problem being the only other comparison is the plasma

And that THING is broken af

[midnight totem]

Bolter is balanced, plasma is slightly overtuned

Well more then slightly

[flint lake]

Plasma needs less penetration but the damage is where it needs to be

[terse idol]

Whaaatt

No waayy

The left click damage is too high

[midnight totem]

But I think it'd be fine just to give all weapons a slight buff to met the plasma, rather then nerf plasma

[terse idol]

You actively lose dps by using a charged right click

Lmao

[muted knot]

Yeah I agree of you had to use your charge more it would be fine

[terse idol]

Yeah

The left click damage needs to supplement the gun, not be the primary

[muted knot]

I'm not sure about that, currently win rates for the highest difficulties are a tad bit high

[midnight totem]

I'm not sure if that has any bearing

[terse idol]

I dont think that matters too much but that's just me

My main concern being getting weapons closer to one another

[midnight totem]

Are you saying it's high in general

Or high because of plasma vets

[muted knot]

In general

I don't think bringing everything to plasma level is healthy for the games difficulty

[midnight totem]

I mean. A competent level 30 team with remotely appropriate weaponry should clear damnation 90+ percent of the time

[flint lake]

Plasma is op because it can kill 6 shotguners with 1 shot

[midnight totem]

That was my experience in Vermintide and VT2 on the second hardest difficulty

[flint lake]

Ain’t cause it can blast one with a left click

[terse idol]

Plasma is OP because it has minimal break point requirements

And a fast draw speed

And a high magazine size

[midnight totem]

Tossing in full books on VT and VT2 maybe lowered the average match win to 60 or 70 percent

[terse idol]

It is

Because there's no reason to use the right click

[flint lake]

Lol no

[terse idol]

Uh yeah?

[flint lake]

You right click to save ammo

[terse idol]

What?

You 3 tap crushers

You one shot everything else

With left clicks

[gusty bison]

More like clear auric damnation 90% of the time

[terse idol]

You never charged shot

Usually

Blaze it makes left click do more damage

Gets hot just gives your left clicks more opportunities to crit

[flint lake]

Charged shots consume less ammo for about the same damage

[terse idol]

Uh

I mean there's a reason why you mainly left click

[muted knot]

You literally spend more ammo with charged most of the time

[gusty bison]

This is not true

[terse idol]

The plasmagun

[gusty bison]

Charged shots cost MORE ammo for the same damage

[muted knot]

Well not the same damage

But not 3x as much

[terse idol]

Its slightly more but more ammo for sure

Bruh

How you gonna post the corpse starch sticker

[flint lake]

What really?

[gusty bison]

Yes

[terse idol]

When you dont know how the plasma gun has been played

[muted knot]

Yeah

Changed shot spends 3 ammo I believe

[gusty bison]

Its why the right click is a fucking joke

Charged shot uses 3x normal shot ammo for less than 3x damage ye

[flint lake]

That’s BS I though it was the other way around this whole time

[gusty bison]

Nop

[flint lake]

Made sense then

[gusty bison]

Lel

[flint lake]

Regardless it’s the pen that makes plasma op

[gusty bison]

Also please no

Plasma is boring because its too easy

Its not even like broken OP in a way like the volver

[terse idol]

This is literally why people build for the dredge gunner 1 tap BP

Because it makes it more efficient

[gusty bison]

Its just utter braindead to play

Which makes it about as fun as watching paint dry after 3 games

[terse idol]

Honestly I would rather that the plasma gun gets nerfs to draw speed and left click damage to incentivize charged shots more

[flint lake]

Makes up for brain dead pugs

[gusty bison]

Plasma i feel needs to hold the player's hand a bit less

Like its ok to have easy weapons but plasma is too easy

[terse idol]

Yeah

Thats the issue, it's when I started playing the bolter was when I was like

"Okay if I'm pulling out the bolter I'm committing to doing something with it"

Thr plasmagun just doesn't have that thought

I can pull it out any time

Put it away at any time

And I'm not worse for it

[gusty bison]

On top of never needing to find an angle for a shot

[terse idol]

Yeah

[gusty bison]

And also aim assist on a weapon with perfect accuracy

It holds the player's hand in too many ways

Aim assist
Zero recoil/suppression
Perfect stability
Perfect accuracy
Infinite cleave
Good swap speed

[mystic laurel]

hey guys, only a few weeks into playing. Are you guys saying the revolver is the most OP weapon and plasma is just behind that?

[keen sedge]

Is rending strikes even good?

[terse idol]

Big mag
And no explosion on left click shots on high heat

[hollow ibex]

Other way around imo

[gusty bison]

Revolver is more OP in good hands.

Plasma is better for people who dont have their fundamentals down

Or well. "Good" hands

Reasonably competent people should get more out of a volver than plasma

[mystic laurel]

sooo... are my teammates all shaking their heads at me still running the infantry lasgun?

[terse idol]

Nobody cares

[gusty bison]

No one cares

[terse idol]

The infantry lasgun is fine

[gusty bison]

And anyone who cares is a dodohead

[hollow ibex]

The main things that cause me to put plasma over revolver are infinite cleave and way larger mag size

[keen sedge]

Infantry lasguns is a reliable gun

[gusty bison]

You can run whatever at the highest difficulty and be fine

[muted knot]

Play what you enjoy

[terse idol]

except recon cough

[gusty bison]

Volver has effectively infinite clip size when built correctly though.

[muted knot]

That's the most important thing

[keen sedge]

Recon:

[mystic laurel]

I've only done up to the level 3 difficulty so far, haven't tried a 4 yet

[hollow ibex]

Shredder auto pistol only run

[gusty bison]

Including recon

[gusty bison]

Done this

[terse idol]

Dats okie

[gusty bison]

Its ok

[terse idol]

You'll get there

[muted knot]

Don't rush it, get your basics down and work your way up

[gusty bison]

Its a weird niche build but raking fire knife shredder vet with stealth works well

[mystic laurel]

running with pickup groups, I tend to get pretty frustrated by ammo hogs pretty regularly, so I went lasgun for ammo efficiency

[terse idol]

I will say though!
Don't get stuck playing 3's because the only way you learn higher difficulties is trying and failing

[muted knot]

That said, once you are level 30 you should definitely dip your toes into 4 and later 5

[hollow ibex]

Yeah but plasma doesn’t require conditions or a specific build to achieve effectively the same result

[gusty bison]

I mean builds are stuff u can just do

[muted knot]

Run the survivalist aura, it's pretty broken

[keen sedge]

Should I use rending strikes or no

[gusty bison]

Plasma also deffo needs a build to hit some BPs

[muted knot]

And sadly the other 2 auras are really bad

[gusty bison]

Otherwise it misses some pretty important BPs

[terse idol]

Depends on what you're building

[tall torrent]

Pulling plasma for 1 shot to open bulwark immediately is pretty nice

[gusty bison]

All guns should be rated in context of buulds

[terse idol]

Infantry autoguns benefit from rending and onslaught

[mystic laurel]

I've got several friends into playing, so I'm 30, but was waiting until they all got 30 so we could do level 4s together and have comms and stuff to figure it out

[gusty bison]

Yea but u can also just do this with a nade

[keen sedge]

Im using plasma and power sword

[terse idol]

Don't take rending

[muted knot]

Oh you're good to go then

[mystic laurel]

BPs?

[terse idol]

You already have ALOT of armour pen

[gusty bison]

Breakpoints

[tall torrent]

Idk I think using 1 shot is more efficient than using 1 nade to open a bulwark

[terse idol]

Yeah

[gusty bison]

You have a near bottomless supply of nades

[terse idol]

I do think plasma is just better for ease of use, and every other thing

[gusty bison]

Not to mention the nades also murder everything around the bulwark

[hollow ibex]

1 shot which can hit the entire patrol

[terse idol]

The plasmas cleave will also murder everything around the bulwark

[muted knot]

The difficulty jump from 3 to 4 is higher than the difficulty jump for 4 to 5 so just get used to 4s

[terse idol]

[gusty bison]

Yea but plasma actually uses ammo

[terse idol]

But!

[hollow ibex]

Hardly matters

[gusty bison]

Two nades clear the entire room

[terse idol]

Your grenades are also like their own resources

[tall torrent]

Firing 1 single shot is not a big deal on ammo econ

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

You said throw 1

[gusty bison]

I mean... the regen like

One every 20s

[tall torrent]

Ofc I know nade open bulwark

[terse idol]

Yes and then for the next room you're out of 2 grenades with 1 grenade remaining

[terse idol]

That's 60s

[gusty bison]

20

Demo team

[terse idol]

Demo team is a little rng

[tall torrent]

It’s still more efficient to open with 1 shot from plasma

[mystic laurel]

I've put together 3 builds, and I've taken krak grenades and grenade regen on all of them

[terse idol]

So uh, it could be 20s

[gusty bison]

Welcome to auric damnation stg

[terse idol]

It could be the next minute

Yeessss

But still+

Rng

[gusty bison]

U kill so many elites u get nades for days

[muted knot]

60s but yeha

[terse idol]

I will admit you do have a CHANCE to get alot of grenades back

[gusty bison]

Im counting demo team as well

[terse idol]

But you don't know when you will

If you have 0 grenades

You may not cook many with demo

Depeends

[gusty bison]

By probability distribution its pretty darn reliable

[terse idol]

The rngesus

[muted knot]

Shredders are a huge help when going into 4s because they will let you create space when shit gets tough

[gusty bison]

Cos it follows a normal distribution

[terse idol]

Well then it's a question of, will you have a grenade already cooked by demo team before the next time you need it

[gusty bison]

And the law of large numbers starts applying

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

Idk I really don’t think plasma 1 shot then go back to melee is such a big loss over “just using nades”

[gusty bison]

Plot a graph against elites killed

[terse idol]

Well its 5%, so like what's the average how many enemies will you need to kill to make 1 grenade

[gusty bison]

20

And its not just you