veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

fury

idk

whatever

[junior needle]

fury of the faithful?

[bitter turtle]

yes

taxe doing bad against carapace isnt so bad when you can just chastise and dome it for half its hp

[junior needle]

You can do that with every weapon

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[stone folio]

i mean.... id rather shoot the carapace fcker with fury of the faithfull

[bitter turtle]

but not every weapon abuses crit cd reset as much as taxe/knife

[bitter turtle]

you see

i was playing kaxe only

no gun

[stone folio]

aaah

[bitter turtle]

but in that case it only goes in favor of the axe more

over knife

[junior needle]

You can get double bruisers with headtaker, which knife can't do without executor and that sucks compared to headtaker

[bitter turtle]

yeah

to me

its basically the same as knife in that you can abuse that crit cd talent really hard

[junior needle]

But like

[bitter turtle]

but it can actually horde clear

not the best, but accceptably

[junior needle]

If you're going fotf, you can just take a weapon that horde clears even better and can still use crit

[bitter turtle]

i was getting faster resets with taxe than evis at least

i havent tried rashad on zealot because fuck rolling another one lul

[raw steppe]

Id argue taxe and knife dont donit as well

[trim steppe]

Rashad / agri brauto with fotf is bonkers good

[raw steppe]

Cuz they have shit cleave

A weapon that has good cleave and shred does it better

[junior needle]

xv doesn't exactly lack for resets if you go shred/fotf/another attack speed thing like martyr or momentum

[bitter turtle]

well'

either way iw asnt really comparing it against other weapons outside the knife

[junior needle]

Taxe will do more on single target for sure

But XV got the big cleave by default

It's like 11 or something

on lights

[raw steppe]

I need to test tax a bit

I'm actually starting to think dropping BM

[junior needle]

4 looks like the only one worth using if you want to light attack

[bitter turtle]

ya i mean

truthfully im sure other weps are better ofc

but i just meant taxe vs knife\

[junior needle]

Judging by the cleave values

[bitter turtle]

and ya

im using 4

[junior needle]

Dunno if taxe would work as well for stealth

[bitter turtle]

maybe but you probably need a gun then

when i was doing taxe only ctw was the only way to kil crushers lmao

[junior needle]

I like poking crushers in the heavy with uncanny knife and bleed

Don't think I can go back to a weapon that doesn't have uncanny now

[hollow ibex]

i got stuck with an executor knife 💀

at least it has bleed

[bitter turtle]

uh

you know bleed fucks up executor right

unless they fixed that

[hollow ibex]

Does it?

[bitter turtle]

it used to at least

the bleed would reset executor stacks

lemme test

[hollow ibex]

Yeah I was planning to replace that knife anyway

[bitter turtle]

oh ok

i think they fixed

ya

[junior needle]

They did fix it

But it still drops on non-weakspot hits

Which happens quite often even on a max height character swinging at or above the head line of melee chaffe

[hollow ibex]

yeah i def noticed it being inconsistent

not a fan of the blessing

using the mk6, honestly i'd prefer even something like haymaker over this crap

[junior needle]

Didn't like the 6 personally

The light attacks are just worse than the 3 too

[raw steppe]

just wait for uncanny nerf

[junior needle]

They could reduce it by half and I'd still take it

[raw steppe]

it's simply overtuned numberswise just like old slaught/ht

ye i mean i think it'd be reasonable at 7/8/9/10

instead of 24

[hollow ibex]

i'd use the 3 if it didn't have a mandatory carpal tunnel blessing coming with it

[junior needle]

Just use an autofire macro/autoswing mod

[hollow ibex]

i tried, it was kinda awkward and felt unresponsive at times

[junior needle]

Executor doesn't drop on a miss strangely

[hollow ibex]

so just stuck with using mk6

[junior needle]

Autoswing?

[hollow ibex]

keep swinging i think it is

first time i used it, it got stuck in auto attack mode

[junior needle]

Yeah I've felt that, I use a macro for it now

[hollow ibex]

had to restart the game

[raw steppe]

it drops if you dont hit the head lol

[junior needle]

I know

[raw steppe]

deimos uncanny+executor is pretty insane though

special instantly stacks both of them

and then you can go to town with the h2

[junior needle]

With how inconsistent headshots can be even with your best use scenario as a player

At least on the knife

I think the executor stacks shouldnt drop on a bodyshot

[junior needle]

That's because the settings weren't configured right

If that's off it will do what you describe

[hollow ibex]

except it was still an issue even after i fixed the settings lol

[junior needle]

HMMMMMMM

[hollow ibex]

and when it works properly, it just feels awkward anyway

[junior needle]

Takes too long between the button press and the swings to start?

[hollow ibex]

i just like the precision of clicking when i need to melee attack ig

might be less of an issue on knife though since it attacks so quickly

maybe will try again

[junior needle]

Well I have an ahk macro that’s more responsive for me

Also turns off when you switch to ranged or grenades

[hollow ibex]

oh an ahk macro?

[junior needle]

Then on again for melee

[hollow ibex]

hmm

do you mind sharing? could try that too

[slender turtle]

Well. Got a 380 Shovel

It went as well as you would expect

[junior needle]

Sent

[terse idol]

damage dump

Oh lord

[slender turtle]

Another one for the museum of weapons i wont use but its 380

[halcyon jackal]

I am pleased by the red headgear in the shop

My veteran drip grows

[junior needle]

I don't understand the reasoning behind rolling a damage dumper just because it's a 380

[shadow aurora]

Is this from vermentide or something?

[flint lake]

The damage is I think is less than a 10 points difference between 60% and 80% for the shovel. What matters more are the perks and blessings.

Uncanny is good and so’s Take a Swing. Flak is also desirable though maniac is pretty worthless. I always build my shovels for hoard clearing.

[zealous wyvern]

this is just a vermintide set yes

[shadow aurora]

I need to try that game out it seems fun

[slow spade]

real melee chads put maniac to melee trappers better

[zealous wyvern]

its arguably better than darktide, mostly because of how long since launch. fatshark needs time to make things polished

older ofc

[junior needle]

Yes, it's an oinker helmet for the paypiggies

[zealous wyvern]

and far less ranged

i got that one without paying im pretty sure?

or do you just get it on top of your purchase because i did buy like 1 helmet

[junior needle]

Ironically in vt2 you can actually get premium cosmetics by playing the game

And you can't in darktide

[stone folio]

Does reciprocity proc on dodging ranged attacks?

[zealous wyvern]

well yes and no to soldier

there are premium cosmetics you cant unlock for free

so id instead phrase it like this
most cosmetics are not premium but you can buy the resource to buy them faster if you want

[junior needle]

Yes but not as well, also dodge states don't work with it so it has to be manual dodges

[zealous wyvern]

while the actual premium is just premium

not earnable

[stone folio]

eh

manual dodging is good enough for me

[junior needle]

Oh, they don't shift older "premium" cosmetics into the earnable pool?

[serene bough]

ive never seen reciprocity proc on ranged attacks

[bitter turtle]

it works with ghost

[bitter turtle]

are you testing against elite gunners or normal ones

because elite gunners dont count as dodging

[terse idol]

That!

[bitter turtle]

since they rapid fire

[terse idol]

It depends

The issue with ANY damage dump is the damage affects all other damage

[junior needle]

Must've been a recent development if it's been fixed, I tried it against reapers and other ranged enemies somewhat recently

[serene bough]

i havent seen with elite nor common ranged enemies

[bitter turtle]

time to make a video

[serene bough]

thnx

[raw steppe]

That's like 10% if your base dmg is 100

[zealous wyvern]

i dont think so but i never really considered that? all premiums i remember stayed un-earnable

so for at least a year or 2 they kept them locked

[raw steppe]

I think trying to find justification in dumping dmg is hard lol

Just accept that the weapon has shit stats

But you wanna use it anyways cuz the blessings or perks are good

[bitter turtle]

uploading now

[serene bough]

ultimately if the damage is good enough to hit the same BPs it doesnt matter

[bitter turtle]

i doubt it is

some of the bps are kinda tight

[serene bough]

more important is blessings and perks for performance

[junior needle]

It now "works" but very inconsistently, only if you're at the start of the dodge state rather than through the whole time

[bitter turtle]

u fuk

i already went and recorded it

😔

well

yeah

[flint lake]

Damage and first strike are the priority for shovels and most weapons but I don't think the difference between 60 and 80 is noticable on a shovel. Couldd be wrong. Maybe its the difference when 3 shoting and 4 shotting a scab.

[bitter turtle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfYNbFsCIVw&feature=youtu.be

also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2288dj5L5o&feature=youtu.be

works on just normal dodges too

[serene bough]

well i guess it technically works

[junior needle]

It was always working on normal dodges

[bitter turtle]

i know

[bitter turtle]

but hugz said he never seen it

so i posted it

[serene bough]

ye

[bitter turtle]

bother him about it not me

😔

[junior needle]

But yeah, technically works but not as well as it should

[bitter turtle]

i was supposed to go and draw

[serene bough]

go draw

[junior needle]

You can see huge ass volleys being dodged and the buff not refreshing

[serene bough]

you've done your duty

[bitter turtle]

🫡

also its why I asked ppl before whether recip is worth on laspistol

i wasnt sure just how good the uptime actually is

it doesnt work on any fully auto enemy btw

[serene bough]

no clue how tight the window for dodging bullets are for the proc

but it's definitely not reliable

[raw steppe]

Recip is pretty mediocre imo

It looks good on paper

But in practice i would pick one of the other talents on that tier

[junior needle]

Only took obesefish about 2 months to partially fix it: #veteran-class message

It's good in melee and if you have a permaghosting setup

Assuming you have a crit oriented melee

[bitter turtle]

I think its because you're testing on a reaper

full auto enemies dont count as dodging

iirc

[junior needle]

#veteran-class message

[bitter turtle]

those guys are also full auto

it only works on trash gunners

even now

[junior needle]

That's dumb

This is dumb

[bitter turtle]

yeah i believe its bc

"but then you'd proc it infinitely fast!!!" for any dodge state effects

on full auto

[junior needle]

It has a cap

lemao

[bitter turtle]

well idk ask fatshark

[serene bough]

wonder if the gunner barrage counts as 1 ranged attack

[bitter turtle]

but i know i tested it recently on elite gunners

it doesnt work unless i fucked something up

[serene bough]

procs at the start but not for the durration

[bitter turtle]

maybe that's it?

you know what

im inclined to believe it is

because i remember 🦆 and 🤿 only procs like once every so often against elite gunners

last i tried it

so maybe it only counts when they start attacking

well would have to test it

[serene bough]

or there's a CD per enemy

[bitter turtle]

or that

NOPE

nevermind

just doesnt owrk period

not even on start

let me record

[serene bough]

something else im noticing from soldier's video is Reciprocity is only stacking when ghost procs (cant tell clearly actually)

[serene bough]

shouldn't you be drawing

[bitter turtle]

yeah but doing darktide mythbusters is easier

and yes

i think it only procs on the initial window you proc ghost

👻

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIm_mAeX1_k&feature=youtu.be

here

[junior needle]

Hmm

[bitter turtle]

neither normal dodging or ghost proc it

HA

i beat you to it this time

but yeah

its not even that it counts as a single attack

its just turned off completely from working on them

thanks obese fish

though for whatever reason

duck and dive works

still

so idk

[wanton dawn]

reciprocity is too hard to exploit rn

[serene bough]

to me it seems its only intended to proc on melee swings

and ranged attacks are finnicky bc unintended

[junior needle]

It's not worded as such, so it seems that's not intended

Of course fatfuck is not good with descriptions either

So it's incompetence one way or another

[serene bough]

its in the melee focused side of the tree which is why im assuming that

[stone folio]

did fatshark murder reciprocity?

[serene bough]

in addition to ranged procs just being unreliable

[stone folio]

was kinda hoping to make a vet dodge dancing build

[junior needle]

It's a big assumption, considering onslaught is there along with ws that gives ranged bonuses as well

[stone folio]

using ranged weapons like the IAG

[junior needle]

It's more melee oriented, but hardly melee specific

[serene bough]

reciprocity is still a good node, just dodging hordes will guarantee you 25% crit chance if you're fighting long enough

[serene bough]

true

[stone folio]

kinda wished it was also really good vs ranged

with duck and dive + reciprocity and deadshot an agile non stop dodge dancing vet with crit out the ass sounded like fun

using +9 stam

[serene bough]

i mean technically you can use recip stacks for ranged

the duration makes it less reliable than just taking headhunter and/or deadshot in my opinion

[bitter turtle]

well

its usually not either/or

you can take both

man

the chainsword feels so trashy

[slow spade]

chainsword has the problem of its not an Eviscerator Uwu

[serene bough]

sure but given its inconsistently procing on ranged i wouldn't trust it like deadshot or headhunter

if it procs is a nice bonus but the other two are more consistent in ranged

[slow spade]

deadshot + headhunter + recipro + 5% crit node

just never not crit

[bitter turtle]

i think its fine for spammy guns

like idk

[serene bough]

i almost always take reciprocity + desperado

[bitter turtle]

if you're just mowing shit down with colu

[serene bough]

just two good solid melee buffs

[bitter turtle]

if the crit procs

that's nice and you mowed them down even fastaer

if it doesnt proc

well

you can keep shooting and it doesnt make a big difference

for something that's relying on it for a 1shot bp then yeah, its not very consistent or reliable

[low kelp]

When running focus is max stacks or moving stacks better?

They degrade so slowly I feel like max stacks might actually be decent

[bitter turtle]

both are fine really

[low kelp]

Running columbus V so I can just point in the general hdeads of a horde and hit max stacks super quick

[serene bough]

recip + HH on MG4 w/ shocktrooper gives great mileage in terms of how long you can consistently shoot for

deadshot on Mg4 and you'll be out of stam in a few seconds

[low kelp]

Is suppression immunity worth it? I usually grab it but not exactly sure what it does

[bitter turtle]

so when enemy gunners are shotoing at you

[bitter turtle]

having you noticed your bullet spread going to shit

[dusty nacelle]

it's the thingy that makes ur accuracy 10x worse when ur being shot at

[bitter turtle]

that's you getting suppressed

[low kelp]

Ah yea, keeping immunity then

[bitter turtle]

for certain gun its a death sentence

[serene bough]

Exe stance has built in supression immunity

doesnt make much sense to take ifyou're running exe

[low kelp]

ok so thats why no one takes it in exe stance builds

I was trying to figure that out

[bitter turtle]

switch born leader to for the empruh

there is no way

you're generating enough toughness to make born leader valuable

with a colu

[serene bough]

that being said I wouldn't bother taking exe stance over VoC or Infiltrate

[low kelp]

Those don't transfer with born leader?

[bitter turtle]

they do

but

let me put it this way

[low kelp]

VoC is overpowered and trying to move away from it

Normally I urn it but building bad habits from it

[serene bough]

fair

[bitter turtle]

ET +CK gives 25%

15% of that is

3 toughness

wow

big stonks

[tall torrent]

Depends on what guns you’re using

[bitter turtle]

you might stop 1 whole bullet

[tall torrent]

They do but unless you’re playing gloryhunter plasma you should not use born leader

[serene bough]

does anyone know if frag grenade kills proc covering fire

[bitter turtle]

yeah gloryhunter plasma with focus target toughness regen subnode is legit the only time i'd suggest it

[low kelp]

Thanks for the tips.

[tall torrent]

If you’re playing gloryhunter plasma then born leader is legitimately viable

And it’s very funny because the most meta viable “medic vet” playstyle involves you killing everything with incredible efficiency

What was the emperor trying to tell us when he made “medic vet” play like this

[orchid atlas]

yo guy does someones has a good frontline build for vet with revolver and power sword?

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/fbb4d50bb2471c7bc3e3c43499d24771.png

https://i.gyazo.com/eaf092f8fb0ac0a0cd15c35220a45ab2.png

[orchid atlas]

thx and what perks on the weapons?

[bitter turtle]

alternatively that if you need desperado

flak/maniac/unyielding/carapace are all valid on psword
brutal momentum + pcycler 4

i put carapace/maniac on my revolver but idk what's optimal perks
blessings are surgical handcannon

[tall torrent]

Maniac + elite

[orchid atlas]

ok thx 🙂

[bitter turtle]

ok there you go

i dont actually like playing volvo

lul

[tall torrent]

U can crit bodyshot 1 tap scab rager with elite perk + elite talent

For crit bodyshot 1 tap Dreg rager u need maniac perk

[bitter turtle]

not familiar with the bps

[tall torrent]

Carapace isn’t needed, elite perk gives u the same 2 crit HS breakpoint

[raw steppe]

I usually don't build for crit body bps interesting lol

[orchid atlas]

thx guy for the build and advice 😀

[tall torrent]

Carapace hits for like 2k crit HS, elite hits for like 1870 smth

[raw steppe]

I usually build for headshot and crit hs

[tall torrent]

Still 2 shot

[bitter turtle]

naruhodo

guess if i evver play it for real ill remake mine

[tall torrent]

Crit bodyshot 1 tap Dreg rager is just a nice BP to have I’d say

[orchid atlas]

and wish blessing for the psword and the revolver? and wich revolver should i use?

[bitter turtle]

i tol dyou already

brutla momentum + pcycler for the psword

surgical + handcannon for the revolver

zarona is the stronger revolver (because its busted)

[orchid atlas]

ah yeah mb thx

[tall torrent]

Perks:
Carapace (crusher 2HS empowered push ATK + L4)
Maniac (mutant 1HS empowered push ATK)
Unyielding (bulwark 1HS empowered push ATK)

Blessings:
T0

• Power Cycler IV
  T1
• Brutal Momentum (kill 4 bruisers in 1 empowered light)
• Sunder (hit 4 high-mass elites with empowered light atks)
  T2
• Slaughterer (extra power from kills which u can easily stack up)
• Rampage (extra dmg from high cleave which u can stack up vs non-armored elites)

[junior needle]

Rampage apparently gives power now

[bitter turtle]

is flaniac even worthwhile in any way on psword tbh

i really dont like it

since you already oneshot everything

mine is carapace/unyielding

[tall torrent]

Maniac yes
Flak I don’t think it gives u any notable BPs

[bitter turtle]

but i see people still recommend it

[tall torrent]

It’s still not as good as sunder or BM for power sword

If those 2 didn’t exist rampage would be top tier pick

[orchid atlas]

what does 2HS/1HS mean ?

[junior needle]

I know, I agree

[tall torrent]

HS = headshot

[bitter turtle]

kills in 2 or 1 headshot

[orchid atlas]

👍

[bitter turtle]

i take unyielding because bulwarks are 🤮 and might as well boost boss damage

[tall torrent]

The bulwark 1HS is a harder BP to get, u might need a few more points into melee

Crusher 2HS is relatively simple as long as u grab the dmg talents in middle & left

Carapace just guarantees it for u

With BM and those 2 talents I think u don’t even need carapace for crusher 2HS

[orchid atlas]

wich one should i upgrade?

[tall torrent]

Neither, sell both

Are u not lv30 yet

[orchid atlas]

nah

ok i sell

[bitter turtle]

BTW

if you put unyielding on your psword

do this instead

https://i.gyazo.com/9f634fd06d2fc1a39c5d68f0e1dee087.png

need ogryn dmg for the 1shot

[tall torrent]

Unyielding needs some tinkering with +dmg talents

[bitter turtle]

ya

that one does do the one shot with a good ps6 roll

for sure

(its actually what I use)

but i just dont normally suggest the ogryn dmg unless you're going for that

p sure its overkill for crusher if you run carapace at least

[umbral granite]

Obtained glory hunter 4, decided to slap it onto this in place of shattering impact.

[rain badger]

….not rerolling maniac to +25%

[toxic leaf]

i wonder if it has any impact though

having said that, i would have rolled it away lol

[umbral granite]

Unfortunately, I am perpetually low on plasteel, and its the plasma gun Mutie dies in 2 shots even with the 25% maniac damage, only difference it makes is when I'm playing on malice or lower.

[tall torrent]

Elite is the most impactful perk for plasma in terms of breakpoint optimization

[tacit cedar]

Plasteel is gone in a flash

[orchid atlas]

yo guy should i buy it or it sucks? im level 22 trying to do a build with this gun

[raw steppe]

Only without tag

Tag punches you through the relevant bps easily

Without tag you need elites to hit the gunner BP

[orchid atlas]

im a lil bit lost who are you talking to?

[umbral granite]

They were having a conversation regarding plasma gun breakpoints

[orchid atlas]

ah that's what i thought

[raw steppe]

If you're not level 30 save your melk points

[wary wharf]

Plasma gun reload shortcut finally clicked in my brain and muscle memory!

[umbral granite]

You were only level 22?

If that is the case then i would get it (assuming that this is from brunt and not melk)

[orchid atlas]

melk 😢

[umbral granite]

Yeah... if it's in melk's shop, dont bother getting anything until you get to level 30

[odd sparrow]

ive realized pub aurics are so much easier than pub damnation because the teammates arent shit

[junior needle]

Turns out one competent zealot with a revolver can take most of the specials

even in hi5stg

[hollow ibex]

And pub damnation is easier than pub heresy for the same reason

Even a larger difference there imo

[slender turtle]

Someones been on a lucky streak

[odd sparrow]

have also had a game where we wiped in 2 minutes

but thats way better than being stuck with shit teammates half way through a mission getting wiped to some trivial shit

[umbral scaffold]

is it a good idea to put a point into the +20 rending when using the plasma gun? or does it not do anything

[bitter turtle]

It's not that useful but it depends on your gun stats affecting beakpoint

[odd sparrow]

now at 263 toughness on my near-perfect curio setup

3xtoughness 15-16%

3x 4% toughness
3x 30% toughness regen
3x 20% gunner resist

[bitter turtle]

I tested a guy's gun yesterday

[odd sparrow]

rending is bad on plasma

[bitter turtle]

10 rending on plasma actually helped him hit crusher 3 shot lul

But speaking generally it's not worth

But best to test your gun and see

Maybe it's right on the cusp of needing a little bump in dmg to bp

[bitter turtle]

Regen bad tho

Only affects coherency regen

Not vets primary source of toughness gain by any measure

[slow spade]

also coherency regen turns off when near enemies

so its useless when you need it lol

[odd sparrow]

idk i still quite like it. Having regen that never turns off helps a lot against poke dmg from shooters. And in general being at 100% toughness as often as possible is still really good

[bitter turtle]

If you get hit (when you would need it) it turns off you know

It functionally is only really useful out of combat

Also most of your toughness gain is from your first line skill like exhilarating or confirmed kill

And shout

[slow spade]

just get this

it works even when being shot

and it doesn't waste curio slots

[odd sparrow]

true, but toughness regen from curio also reduces the delay a fuck ton. So its effectively always on

and also what would i even use it on then

sniper resist?

[white minnow]

ordo dockets 😎

[bitter turtle]

Health, Stam regen imo

Both of those are gud

[odd sparrow]

5% health is just so negligible

[bitter turtle]

So is trickling an extra single digit toughness per second

But 3x health is basically a 4th curio

Stam regen is strong tho regardless

[odd sparrow]

the value of that toughness is so much higher with iron will tho

stam regen is propably good. But i dont push often enough to feel the need for it

[bitter turtle]

You still bleed health damage if you're not at max toughness

Iron will doesn't stop that

[odd sparrow]

yeah which is why i like toughness regen to keep me topped off more often

[bitter turtle]

Also poxbursters

Ya but I'm saying the actual effect of coherence regen is miniscule

[odd sparrow]

whenever im leveling a character i can definitely feel the loss of the toughness regen curios

[golden nacelle]

Ok guys... I'm looking to get into some shovel play. What's your favourite shovel mark, and what are your ideal blessings and perks?

[odd sparrow]

the delay going from 3 seconds to less than a second is so huge

[bitter turtle]

Mk3, perks flaniac, blessings uncanny/decimator/skullcrusher/thrust/limbsplitter are all decent to great

[frail bolt]

suggestions?

[bitter turtle]

Mk6 is fine too if you prefer all horizontal heavies for a slower special

[bitter turtle]

Well js, there is a reason nobody rightfully recommends it for vet

U can run what you like tho

[bitter turtle]

Melee crit to maniac probably

[odd sparrow]

rampage --> brutal momentum,
crit --> flak/maniac depending on breakpoint

[bitter turtle]

Rampage to bromentum ig

[odd sparrow]

js?

[bitter turtle]

Flak is a waste on sword tbh

[bitter turtle]

Just saying

[odd sparrow]

i quite like hitting the 1hit bp on shotgunners

and 2 hit on ragers

[frail bolt]

thx

[golden nacelle]

What would you do to this guy?

[bitter turtle]

what are you using it for

mostly to kill elites or hordes

[golden nacelle]

good question

[bitter turtle]

skullcrusher or decimator for hordes, I prefer sc beccause ti doesnt reset on a miss, but decimator is better when stacked

thrust to kill elites

[golden nacelle]

Whatever it would be best for I guess, I have a few ranged options to pair it with

is hammerblow useless?

[odd sparrow]

you right just realized mine has maniac lmao

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/c4d29cbdec151644a678eabf1d0b74f3.jpg

idk if urs is just badly rolled

but u hit it regardless

same with rager

[bitter turtle]

hammerblow is not good

id just swap it and specialist damage off

[junior needle]

The only weapon I know of that wants an impact blessing is the crusher currently, and that’s because you can knock rangers out of attack animations with it

[bitter turtle]

sad

well

let me see if ic an do it

you're really close to a crusher 1 shot

with 20% carapace

and thrust

ya

you can do it if you take 10% melee

so that's a thought I guess?

https://i.gyazo.com/703f4ccad7474c31f95837b607686323.jpg

used your exact stats on shovel with thrust IV

but uh

maybe run 10% elite + your carapace perk to make it easier if you want to aim for this

that way you dont need to pick up 10% melee or

something else

[tall torrent]

is this decent

[toxic leaf]

melk has a degree in trolling lol

i could get this and put pc4 on it, then swap out infested for something

i suppose unyielding is good into bosses

[crude fiber]

Graia isn't great rn, if and when they buff it that'll be a good ine

[junior needle]

It got buffed actually

[crude fiber]

In the latest hot fix or awhile ago? Cause last I checked its still mid

[junior needle]

It was a bit ago but they increased the base damage, but also got the numbers wrong in the patch notes

Has about the same dps to maniacs as the agri brauto when braced

I'll check a flak target

[low kelp]

Besides power cycler, what are some good blessings for VI power sword?

[toxic leaf]

sundar, brutal momentum (either)

[junior needle]

Slightly less dps to flak by 40~ dps in practical test, assuming equal crits

[low kelp]

Supercharge IV any good with power cycler IV?

(+4 brittleness on energized hit)

[junior needle]

No, also see #veteran-class message

[slow spade]

Slaughterer is acceptable for Psword as well

[low kelp]

Just trying to figure out how to rearrange this

[junior needle]

Change both blessings if you want the best performance

[low kelp]

Alternatively

[junior needle]

Blessings are super important on pswords

[low kelp]

but 50% mobility is the dodge threshold yea?

[junior needle]

Probably

But I don't know for sure

[low kelp]

Yep, just checked

the 47 has 3 dodges, the 51 has 4 dodges

F

[slow spade]

rip

[frank basin]

Back to grind more

[tall torrent]

it's a bit lower still

[serene sage]

what is that mod that lets you skip the mourning star load?

like you have all the stuff you want at the operative select screen?

[junior needle]

psych ward

[serene sage]

perfect thanks

[junior needle]

After testing it again there's some unusual variance in the agri dps even with the same amount of crits (going from 1611 to 1650 with the 3 crits each is weird)

But yeah with one crit string each the agri got regularly about 1611~ and the graia braced got 1560~

[slow spade]

It scales based off your faith UwU

clearly the 1611 is low faith and 1650 is high faith

[frank ether]

still kinda bad tho

[junior needle]

Has about a 40-50~ dps difference on flak and maniac compared to agri

So not exactly a big gap

[frank ether]

meaningless metric for a gun with like 10m effective range

[junior needle]

Yeah the spread on all the brautos is pretty bad

Graia technically functions better with the spread tightening but uh

Not exactly great

[frank ether]

It doesnt rly matter what dps they do braced spread is just bad gameplay mechanic

[junior needle]

True true, I agree bracing them should make them not feel dogshit accuracy wise

[frank ether]

on agri at least it starts with a smaller cone that you can work with

[junior needle]

Does it really?

[frank ether]

It also kills things in less shots

but you can check for yourself on some medium range targets

[hollow ibex]

finally time to get ride of the 8 minute loadings?

[serene sage]

yes sir

[sturdy herald]

Out of curiosity, is there any context to use the Mk3 Power Sword over the Mk6?

[umbral scaffold]

whats the dump stat for plasma?

also is competitve urge worth putting a talent point into?

[gentle maple]

Change to flak and rampage?

[placid portal]

Charge speed currently sincr charged shots do be sad rn

[umbral scaffold]

gotcha and everyhting else 80?

what are best blessings i want

[placid portal]

If you can

Blaze Away and It gets Hot is probs the best

[umbral scaffold]

gotcha

not volatile?

[placid portal]

Yea no

[umbral scaffold]

gotcha

[placid portal]

Charge speed isnt a factor no more

[umbral scaffold]

what about perks?

🤔

[placid portal]

That is where opinions are mixef and im confused as heck

[umbral scaffold]

gotcha. how do you feel about competitive urge

is it worth runnning? i ran it but i couldnt tell a difference if ima be honest

[placid portal]

Competitive urge kinda eh tbh

It used to be alright before keystone

[junior needle]

What's with all these "damage stat bad, mobility is better" people who keep spouting this on reddit

[placid portal]

[junior needle]

They're saying this and literally don't even know what the inspect screen is

[placid portal]

Misinformation propaganda

The correcy answer is Damage stat isnt the only thing to take account for a weapon build since if a 80 dmg and 70 or lower dmg have same BPs then it doesnt matter too much

And dumping mobility stat is not good

[midnight adder]

Dumping mobility is fine, I never go over 10% mobility. Also, don't look at how often I get netted that's irrelevant

[harsh ridge]

is it weird that I get better DPS with a Bolter against Crushers using my support build than I do with my ranged build?

[midnight adder]

as in, your theoratical max dps is better, or in practice it is?

[placid portal]

What passives are you pairing the boltgun with ranged buildanyways?

[frank ether]

do you mean left build path with ''ranged vet''

and I assume support is voc-focus mark?

[midnight adder]

doesn't shout stack pinning fire?

[placid portal]

Tbh left tree for boltgun is either dip into markmen or only to superiority complex

[placid portal]

Dunno but your weapon has to be out for it to stack for sure

[harsh ridge]

yes to both. not using pinning fire though.

[frank ether]

if you're not hitting constant headshot crits left tree offers you very little value

[midnight adder]

focus mark is just an insane damage boost, 32% at 8 stacks, no?

[placid portal]

Thought focus stacks give 4% dmg per stack

Ah wait

[midnight adder]

technically on my psyker not vet, but I keep it as a meme

[placid portal]

Ogryn maths

[frank ether]

you can just grab precision+deadshot and maybe the %25 ammo and elite, but the %15 elite isn't gonna be as impactful as the %10 rending on middle nor the %20 raw ogryn damage.

[placid portal]

Man the psyker picking the biggest warp stick

25% ammo is only 1 mag

[harsh ridge]

headshot crits are what I go for. takes fewer shots on average with support. probably something to do with the extra 10% rending though from the middle column

[placid portal]

[midnight adder]

frankly, I started playing as a zealot, and the stats on 6% mobility force sword are perfectly fine

it's got 4 dodges, why would I need more lmao

[frank ether]

focus mark is just simpler

and still gives you finesse damage

[placid portal]

Minus those who bind to the fire button

[frank ether]

because raw damage will also buff your headshot damage some amount

[harsh ridge]

this is before applying focus

[frank ether]

probably down to rending then

do you take the

%20 ogryn

[harsh ridge]

lemme check

[frank ether]

that should also scale better than %15 elite damage

but Idk how the calculation works, I just know its more potent

[harsh ridge]

ah, okay yeah. that makes a lot of sense now.

[frank ether]

something something damage > base damage or so I was told

[midnight adder]

I'd assume base damage would be the weapons listed stat, whereas the 20% bonus from bring it down is applied after your various buffs from talents and the like

[frank ether]

likely

similarly I imagine the buff from redirect fire and focus mark in general will also scale a lot better than marksman focus

since its super easy to proc and get the full benefit

tho I don't think marksman focus is weak numbers wise lol

[tall torrent]

The 15% elite is more impactful than 10% rending usually

[midnight adder]

marksman focus just sucks with single target weapons tbh

[tall torrent]

Unless specific weapon with low adm

[frank ether]

that will depend on weapon and armor characteristics

[frank ether]

It just sucks in general but not because of the numbers given to it

[midnight adder]

frankly, to make it more flavorful it'd be better to have it stack up when you aren't firing your gun, similar to surgical

[frank ether]

no the finesse bonus is actually really potent and can make you reach new bps

but uh

[midnight adder]

isn't it decent on the autoguns?

[frank ether]

its just not very practical or fun gameplay

[frank ether]

It iiis but I still dont like it

so the thing is

[midnight adder]

I agree, but if you crabwalk it works

[frank ether]

there is a trade off you make

[midnight adder]

just hate having to play that way

feels so wrong

[frank ether]

do you just take deadshot and leave left tree or do you go all the way down

leaving at deadshot allows you to juice your melee

if you go MF you don't have a lot of points left

[midnight adder]

vet keystones other than mark target just feel to expensive, especially compared to the other talents you can grab

[frank ether]

and at that point you just made a shit build because it doesnt function without your finesse sources active

exec+mf specifically

so its what I call a good vibes build

just falls apart completely the moment you have to face some real pressure

[sturdy herald]

How does Sunder work on the Psword, exactly?

[midnight adder]

the good ol' win more

[frank ether]

yep, exactly

tho weapon specialist isnt so bad

its also expensive to go down in right tree but it juices both of your weapons

[sturdy herald]

I was under the impression energized attacks already had mad cleave.

[midnight adder]

I'd like to use it, but keeping stacks up is just annoying

[frank ether]

like you can take deadshot on your iag and then just go down to weapon spec

[midnight adder]

if the stacks were consumed when you attacked with your melee/gun rather than on swap it'd go a long way to improving the QoL of weapons specialist

[frank ether]

I agree that'd be better design, but its still more useable than marksman focus. You still have some level of control.

you can simply choose not to weapon swap till the moment is right

[midnight adder]

agreed, infinitely more usable than marksman focus

[trim steppe]

I havent run Boltgun in months. Surgical/Pinning Fire is the meta, ya? How is Cavalcade?

[frank ether]

and if you play very melee focused ( as you should as right tree player), then you can guarantee yourself easy uptime on %25 attack speed

[midnight adder]

yeah, but this means I have to pay more attention to what I'm doing in between fights and play differently than I would on other classes

[frank ether]

Its not so bad as a melee build with all the survivability offered

you get easy pathing to two +25 toughness nodes as well as two defensive ultimates

[tall torrent]

Cavalcade is good for zealot

[trim steppe]

But not vet?

[midnight adder]

combo with the spread and recoil reduction on dodge for crazy fun

[tall torrent]

Let’s just say that you’re not usually encouraged to magdump on veteran rn

[midnight adder]

zealot can use blazing piety for 25% crit on full auto, Deadshot can't benefit as easily, and Reciprocity stacks are harder to get and maintain

[frank ether]

for veteran bolter I prefer surgical

and a middle path

I've been advocating this for months

[midnight adder]

for vet I'd say surgical and pinning fire would do nicely, but I've yet to try it

[frank ether]

you will NEVER reach the highs of zealot

[trim steppe]

How good/important is Pinning Fire if you take Surgical

[frank ether]

with the magdump build

like exec magdump bolter, zealot will always outshine you while staying a capable melee setup

[midnight adder]

never reach the heights of throwing knife canceling the swap animation for insta mag dump

[frank ether]

you also get the

armor downgrade

which is huge

just gotta play into your strengths imo

[trim steppe]

so would you say this is decent if I switch Cav to Surgical?

[midnight adder]

ammo regen aura is a pretty nice bonus over zealot tbh

[frank ether]

sure but honestly I can't guarantee you will like surgical playstyle

[trim steppe]

This is the other decent one I have

[frank ether]

thats also pretty decent

Idk if you really need unyielding though

[midnight adder]

swapping shattering impact would let you try out surgical, and you could swap if you dislike it

[frank ether]

you already murk bosses very fast

[midnight adder]

brittleness is kinda overkill on the bolter tbh

[midnight adder]

boo, overkill is the best kind of kill

[frank ether]

I find that it just doesn't matter as much

[trim steppe]

what perks help other BPs instead of increase ttk bosses?

[frank ether]

you either get a vet running the aura

or you just steal all the ammo

since you're a zealot and move faster than everyone else anyways

[trim steppe]

maniac/carapace?

[midnight adder]

not with 2% mobility I'm not

[frank ether]

I run the classic flakiac on mine

[midnight adder]

(please don't actually do that I don't actually do that)

[frank ether]

I don't think there is anything wrong with unyielding

but just saying

you don't have to ensure its there

it doesn't matter

you will kill bosses regardless

I'd rather ensure I'm running either pinning/surgical or pinning/cavalcade depending on playstyle

and then perks are secondary

[trim steppe]

Gotcha. Ok thanks for all the input

I'm gonna try my first one with T2 pinning since pinning is front loaded now anyway, see how I like it

[frank ether]

don't forget deadshot on the surgical build

Its pretty good on bolter

[raw steppe]

Waiting for fs to add back instareload to executioners

Before touching bolter again

[frank ether]

Oh no good thing will happen to executioner

there seems to be a shared hatred for ranged veteran lmao

exec veteran killed darktide so it must die for fatshark's sins

[raw steppe]

I think if they added insta reload

And nerf voc to 40

Id consider it

[frank ether]

I'd still run VoC

I'm %100 honest about this

[raw steppe]

Maybe also move confirmed kill to be only for exe

Rather than a vet generic talent

[frank ether]

and what? Have 3 tax nodes?

or have it active only when exec is active? Your uptime is gonna be dogshit on that

[raw steppe]

No

[frank ether]

they fucked exec beyond repair lmao its never coming back

[raw steppe]

Have it only be for exe

[blissful flame]

i use VOC cause i like being a tank

[raw steppe]

Because cooldown resets are overpowered as fuck

[frank ether]

They designed an entire tree for ranged finesse damage

[blissful flame]

also hey look, this thing could almost be slightly useful! https://i.imgur.com/SUJITnt.png

[frank ether]

and then designed both the ultimate and the keystone to also be conditional finesse sources

[blissful flame]

(not gonna use it)

[frank ether]

It is when its casually on the way for Iron Will and when it enables a powerful ultimate

[junior needle]

I'm sure fatshark will buff recons sometime between next year and whenever darktide 2 is announced

[frank ether]

It is not when what it enables is exec stance and it costs yet another point

on the already taxed left tree

[blissful flame]

darktide 2 is the perfect time to commit to darktide 1

[frank ether]

Seriously

think about this for half a minute

if you can just shoot your gun undistrupted you already have permanent exec uptime

Its just never coming back

It will forever remain as the low intensity roleplay ultimate

[junior needle]

Unsheathes kickback

Gud luck with that, sah.

[frank ether]

intended gameplay anyway

[junior needle]

Aint no glowies if ah can help it

[frank ether]

given that probably ogryn mains decided how vet should be

and now that everyone embraced how they think we should play the class they hate that too lmao

puri wants voc, tactical awareness and grenade regen nuked out of the class lmao

[bitter turtle]

Really think voc is fine

[frank ether]

These people actually just want the class unplayable

thats what they want

[bitter turtle]

Infil feels just as good

[frank ether]

but they can't admit it

[bitter turtle]

Just taxed hard

[frank ether]

they want vet to be this unplayable ranged vomit pile

so that they get to satisfy their savior complex on

[midnight adder]

why nuke VoC tho, it feels nice

[frank ether]

you don't feed the savior complex of the big baby class that casually tanks 2k damage each mission while outdamaging you.

Thats why.

[bitter turtle]

Fixing the tree just needs survivalist removed for a new aura and turned into a generic passive in the game that you can balance around, smoke grenades buffed, exec changed to something more meaningful

[midnight adder]

I feel this is a rather uncharitable read on ogryn mains, but eh

[frank ether]

the goalpost always shifts on it too

[bitter turtle]

Then people will take things other than voc

[frank ether]

''yellow toughness op'', ''stun op'', ''no no its the cooldown thats op''

Can't even make up their mind

It doesn't matter

they can nerf all 3 of those aspects

you will still run VoC

[midnight adder]

frankly the cooldown is the main thing that makes it so strong, honestly feels like throwing if you take the rez on VoC talent

[frank ether]

It doesn't matter

[midnight adder]

lower uptime and reduced range hurt it a lot imho

[frank ether]

The CD was 45 sec in P13

put it back to 45

You'll still run it

on most builds

you have to with the tree layout and what makes sense to run

[toxic leaf]

lets not get crazy, veteran is held together by ammo aura, shout, and the strength of columnus/plasma/revolver

[junior needle]

Maybe for you, but not your team

[toxic leaf]

triple tapping it would make it irrelevant

[midnight adder]

I mean, yeah, exec stance basically a win more button and infiltrate is super costly and less useful for the team

[frank ether]

no, no do it

[spring spindle]

Joins a game. Three other Vets with chainsword in lobby.

switches to chainsword

“Twinsies”

[frank ether]

manchildren will not rest till this class is quite literally unplayable

so do it

[midnight adder]

idk, sounds like quadruplets to me

[spring spindle]

The game ended with three of us (me included) being netted so we almost were quadruplets again lmao

[midnight adder]

lmfao (I'm seething rn fuck trappers)

[vagrant hornet]

how do i get image permissions ?

[tall torrent]

It’s not exactly cooldown or gold toughness or the stagger strength / range

It’s the fact that it’s the optimal pathing to go for

You just naturally go from demo stockpile to it

Veteran without grenade regen is basically trolling

Choosing either of the other abilities requires a 2 point sink just to get demo stockpile

And ironically enough the other 2 abilities get taxed more than VoC at a baseline

[raw steppe]

Ye i think the grenade mods should be tacked onto the grenades themselves

So each grenade has a regen talent and a utility talent

[vagrant hornet]

I got A MK V auto gun with 60% damage and 79% everything else. Is this worth useing?

[raw steppe]

Rather than it being generically on tree

[hollow ibex]

no

[tall torrent]

Yes

[vagrant hornet]

.>

[hollow ibex]

roll for a better gun smh

have some standards

[vagrant hornet]

the 80% damage one only does 2 more damage

[hollow ibex]

i mean the gun will prob still be fuckin great because it's a CIAG

[tall torrent]

The reality is that even if u nerf VoC CD, it’ll still be the most picked ability in higher difficulties because it’s literally just the optimal pathing

Nobody wants to have to sink extra 2 points for grenade regen

The 2 nodes before exe stance are both not great

Killzone has the issue of “relying ur breakpoint on not being in melee usually doesn’t work” and “extra 15% dmg for the same shots to kill just is not impactful enough”

Opening salvo is literal meme and gets outclassed by the 5% crit chance node which works ALL the time and applies to ALL your attacks

Exe stance itself has uptime issues and the moment you’re forced into melee (happens) it’s gone

Infiltrate suffers from pathing issues even more because the overall best grenade & aura are both on left side

[frank ether]

waiting for an ogryn main to chime in and say the solution is to remove grenade regen

[tall torrent]

Survivalist is an issue of its own, but even if you’re not taking survivalist, you still likely want frags which is on left side

[blissful flame]

got me a possible alternative for my braced autogun https://i.imgur.com/6cuJUEW.png

[hollow ibex]

might you be referencing... certain recent events

[frank ether]

I don't want to become more toxic than I already am

but you know who I'm thinking of

[tall torrent]

Having to go frag -> move speed aura is another point sink, not to mention when you get to infiltrate you have to do 2 points into nade regen again

[hollow ibex]

yes, was there for it... and shocked by how bad of a take it was lol

[blissful flame]

as someone who plays big bang ogryn, I love vets who have grenade regen, bcause it usually means they let me have the pickups

[hollow ibex]

yeah it benefits everyone really

[tall torrent]

Infiltrate needs to have some of its modifiers baked in

[hollow ibex]

i never take grenades

[tall torrent]

There’s zero reason for infil to cost this many points to play

[trim steppe]

I just wish FS took notes from DRG overclocks when designing blessings. Make them actually change functionality of the weapon or do something interesting. +15% here or +20% there is not only uninteresting, but there's almost always a "correct" pick making it even more boring. And then because the gun is so impacted by that blessing, you have to redesign the gun around that singular blessing. It's just not good.

[tall torrent]

Another issue infil has (and this is smth people don’t talk abt) is that

[hollow ibex]

it's the tax you pay for invisibility memes

[tall torrent]

Left & middle tree are just loaded with more damage

Or much more impactful bonuses than right

Right tree you have reciprocity + desperado for crit melee (not all melee weapons need this)

You have onslaught which only really becomes effective for like 2 guns in the entire game

You have extra melee atk speed which is a 5 point sink and most of the time, killing in fewer hits will have better TTK than killing in more hits but attacking faster

[frank ether]

onslaught is just bad

and its also bad design

it will never be good because if its good on a slow gun its too good on a fast one

[white minnow]

at least with attack speed compared to damage i won't have to do breakpoint math

[midnight adder]

true, but I also feel like the uptime and survivability on VoC make it the best of the three, pathing aside

[frank ether]

oh yea you can dump 50 rounds to the head of an ogryn with a columnus tho good job wooow so strong

[tall torrent]

You can nerf VoC cd to 40s or 45s, that’s totally fine

But that won’t make people play exe stance or infil more

[midnight adder]

ah, I don't want it nerfed mind you

I crutch that shit

[tall torrent]

I’m ok with VoC nerf

[hollow ibex]

bring VOC back to giving 100 overshield

[frank ether]

They're not gonna

buff

anything

they'll nerf voc and be done with it

[hollow ibex]

i miss 100 overshield VOC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/866612868992466947.webp?size=48&name=sadge&quality=lossless

[frank ether]

and you'll be stuck with 2 bad ults an one boring one

[tall torrent]

I think 1 VoC veteran is fine but when you get into duo veteran teams the gold toughness uptime can get a little ridiculous

[midnight adder]

ah my favorite team comp, 3 shouting vets circlejerking in a psyker bubble

[frank ether]

gold toughness is a silly mechanic to begin with

[tall torrent]

If u have 2 VoC veteran + 1 relic zealot on one team you basically will never drop below 100 toughness unless it goes FUBAR

[midnight adder]

frankly with a comp like that, FUBAR only happens if you don't stick together

[tall torrent]

However even if u nerf every aspect of VoC
Stagger strength, range, cooldown, how gold toughness works

It’ll still be the most popular ability

If they want to make exe stance and infil compete with VoC better, the pathing nodes need to get buffed

[frank ether]

If you're going to romanticize people playing the game optimally exec is a great ultimate

because the braindamaged tester would probably say that its designed around teammates protecting you from melee

which will never happen in real gameplay

[tall torrent]

For one I think

Exe refresh needs to be changed

From “refresh duration” to “add 5s duration”

The uptime is not good enough rn

[frank ether]

The argument for that is

''complexity''

and then why does scriers gaze exist though

peril isn't complex

[midnight adder]

so i can blow myself up, duh

[frank ether]

you can't blow yourself up shooting your gun or swinging your dueling sword

the only way you can die as a gunpsyker is if you use your ability willy nilly while scrier is up

[midnight adder]

gun psyker? no no no, i'll take the voidstrike staff and tank my winrate

[white minnow]

true, there was a negative number in the patch nodes under voidstrike

voidstrike ruined

[vague lintel]

unusable

[frank ether]

lmao

[midnight adder]

personally, I pop scriers and start stroking my force sword

gotta establish dominance

[tall torrent]

Survivalist is another issue of its own that’s propagating the pathing problem rn

But like

[midnight adder]

movement speed aura is the best, don't @ me

[tall torrent]

Even if u take survivalist completely out of the picture and replace it with smth nice like “whole team gets +15% weakpoint dmg”

[frank ether]

you can't just force me into not using my melee and then expect me to conserve ammo lmao

[tall torrent]

The 2 nodes before exe stance are still bad

And infil still has bad point tax

[frank ether]

I wouldn't mind the point tax if I felt that it was worthwhile investment

[tall torrent]

Right tree bottom is also organized pretty weird

Skirmisher is such a low value talent

[frank ether]

They made it actually worse yea

[tall torrent]

But it’s put on same tier as melee atk speed

[white minnow]

skirmisher being a worse Desperation 😔

[tall torrent]

I genuinely want to know how many people actually take skirmisher over trench fighter if they go bottom right

Skirmisher has horrendous uptime

[frank ether]

I don't think anyone does that

[vagrant hornet]

what perks do i want on my MK V auto rifle? i currently have 20% damage to carapace enemys

and 4% crit

[tall torrent]

You need 5s sprint to get all 5 stacks

And they only last 5s

Like, what

Who came up with this

[frank ether]

lmao

vet testers probably

[white minnow]

zealot and vet having worst versions of each other's talents (e.g., the emperor's bullet & weapon spec)

[frank ether]

I don't care at this point I'll just blame it all on testers

[tall torrent]

Agile engagement is a high investment node (in terms of how you need to play it) and it has like a hundred times better uptime than skirmisher

[timid otter]

On the bright side skirmisher isnt the worst talent in the tree...

[tall torrent]

Yea, exploit weakness is also a meme

Why is it melee crit only

[midnight adder]

skirmisher should be rolled into the aura tbh

[tall torrent]

Who came up with this

[cobalt chasm]

I've a question. For a MKIIa stub, what should I prioritize? I assumed it was power and pen but I wanna make sure

[tall torrent]

None of the crit focused melee weapons care abt that node?

Knife already has uncanny

Tac axes don’t benefit from brittleness that much

[frank ether]

Its there so you can realize its a trap and take the 25 toughness insteadd

[midnight adder]

I think the idea is that half the tree is crit, and the other half isn't

[tall torrent]

DC swords still won’t kill carapace anywhere reasonably fast with it

[midnight adder]

or branch, rather than tree

[tall torrent]

Exploit weakness should at the very least work for ranged atks

[midnight adder]

it's just the crit talents have other great stuff on them, and waaay more impact

[tall torrent]

So u have an alternative to onslaught for ranged rending on the slower RoF guns

[frank ether]

that would synergize with deadshot, cant have that

[midnight adder]

gonna be honest, I don't think we need more rending/brittleness on ranged weapons for vet

[tall torrent]

I’m also gonna make the controversial statement of “I think suppression immunity should be a veteran baseline passive”

[frank ether]

It doesn't matter

you're no longer a ranged class

I've been told exec gives it anyways

but it doesnt matter

because again you're no longer a ranged class

[tall torrent]

Exe does, but relying on exe for suppression immunity feels really bad in practice

[frank ether]

you juice your gun about as much as a zealot does or even less in some cases

all the rending in the world

[tall torrent]

Get forced into melee, exe wears off, now u get suppressed like crazy

[frank ether]

and its less gun juice than fury of the faithful

like oh you think brittle on columnus is strong

because you can dump 50 rounds to kill a crusher

have you seen what fury does?

[tall torrent]

Columnus 5 with blazing piety and fury is hilarious

[timid otter]

Theres to much stunning, suppresion in the game in general.

[tall torrent]

You do ungodly crits

[frank ether]

''melee class'' btw

but yeah

vet rending op

better drop that down to %5

[tall torrent]

Columnus 5 + blazing piety + fury + duelist

[frank ether]

and make MF require 20 stacks

for %10 rending

[tall torrent]

Hilarious amounts of damage

[frank ether]

you dont even need duelist to beat vet for the occasional carapace murking

[tall torrent]

Duelist is just for the memes so u can occasionally put gun psyker to shame

[frank ether]

from my understanding it changes armor types so its infinitely better than rending

[tall torrent]

Psyker stacking DD + SG just so zealot with duelist manages to out-dps them anyways

[frank ether]

But nono

the problem is

survivalist

and voc

honestly I agree

don't think zealot needs any help from vet

[timid otter]

If theres anything i want nerfed/changed by now its colomnus

[frank ether]

what will that fix in this discussion though

[tall torrent]

Columnus at the very least needs crit chain nerfed

[frank ether]

you can nerf columnus sure

but any iag

result is similar

[tall torrent]

I don’t think so

[timid otter]

Thats fine

Atleast there will be more decisions in what IAG to use

[tall torrent]

Neither have as good crit chains

[frank ether]

You'll still throw it in a build that gets giga finesse and %50 recoil reduction on zealot

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa has higher recoil (actually a thing)

[frank ether]

the decision on what gun to use as a zealot will always boil down to dps

[tall torrent]

That’s fine, those 2 don’t really melt flak or carapace as quickly