veteran-class

[tiny summit]

I heard. But I also don't know what the balance in the game as a whole was like. Was enemy density like it is now? Were other weapons worth?

[muted knot]

What

Hellbore should beat bolter in like 8/10 games

[serene sage]

not in my games I guess

[slow spade]

Enemies were buffed, spawns were buffed THREE time (fatshark why), and most weapons were shit

[serene sage]

the only helbore I remember that beat me was @bitter turtle

[tiny summit]

Is it on life support or is it because other things are more efficient w/o the clunkiness

[slow spade]

Vets had like only Shredder pistol, MK12, and bolter

[tiny summit]

Sounds like I can understand why the 12 was meta

[muted knot]

Maybe its just a problem with the bolter players I encounter tho, could very well be

[slow spade]

Yeah if you used anything but mk12, bolter, or shredder pistol. You were basically memeing

"Trust me guys, plasma is good now"

[agile forge]

also Abrauto

was really good

[slow spade]

Oh true

[serene sage]

well it's a weird thing, on the same skill level I think Bolter is worse than Helbore sure

[slow spade]

Agri braced auto

[serene sage]

but most people don't use either the Bolt or Helbore that well

so

[agile forge]

and Hellbore II was a good sidegrade from the MGXII

[bitter turtle]

remember that i also didnt use the gun in that game

the gun itself is really meh

imo

[serene sage]

yes

[agile forge]

slower draw and worse sights, but more flexibility once it's out

[serene sage]

but also it's still a helbore and you did well

[agile forge]

and you can always skill issue around the sights

[bitter turtle]

lul

thanks

[serene sage]

I guess your V7 is also cracked af

[bitter turtle]

i like to think so at least 😔

ive played it less recently

for v3/rashad

[serene sage]

silly goose you play a lot of psykers recently

[slow spade]

Not really

[tiny summit]

Plasma getting so many buffs that yes I think it should be this powerful but my God does it only tickle toughness

[serene sage]

yes I stalked you

[slow spade]

Bayonet back then did like 70 damage

[bitter turtle]

lol

just to level it

i stopped playing it the moment i hit 30

[slow spade]

So it was just a worse mk12

[tiny summit]

Or uncharged not having any risks

[bitter turtle]

i dont like it much tbh

[serene sage]

I don't like how I feel completely useless against bosses

[slow spade]

Plasma went from 0 to hero UwU

[bitter turtle]

when the optimal play vs trash gunners is to slide at them spamming lmb fire

[serene sage]

otherwise psykers are fine, just oh so squish 😄

[bitter turtle]

it feels scuffed

[slow spade]

Warpfire seems to do ok dps vs bosses

Lets you cover allies and do damage

[serene sage]

warpfire is conditional no?

[slow spade]

Purg staff btw

[serene sage]

oh purg

[slow spade]

Na purg

[bitter turtle]

purg staff vs boss is decent in the sense that it also clears horde

if its just the boss though

[agile forge]

Also brain rupture is decent vs bosses

[bitter turtle]

id just take out deimos/ds4 and poke it in the eye

[slow spade]

Apply dot + cover allies

[agile forge]

it's extremely safe

[bitter turtle]

brain rupture is good if the boss is hitting someone else

[agile forge]

but you're best off clearing the weeds out usually

[bitter turtle]

so its not easy to chase the weakspot

[serene sage]

maybe I should try Psyker tonight

[slow spade]

Funnily enough, I saw a purg psyker solo a chaos spawn

[agile forge]

I guess void and surge probably hurt bosses better than brain rupture

because it's their job

[serene sage]

Vet > Psyker = Zealot >> Ogryn in term of fun for me

[tiny summit]

Purg dmg is OK against a boss, more so yea it allows you to clear trash at the same time.

[slow spade]

team wipe + psyker last man

Still won

[agile forge]

It changes every day for me tbh

[slow spade]

Giga-chad psyker

[agile forge]

the key is that once you have your full stack you can change to another weapon

[serene sage]

how do you deal with gunner line with purge bb though

[agile forge]

it's MMO style, apply DoTs then nuke

[bitter turtle]

you mean

elites?

bb spam

[agile forge]

Either dome or shriek

[serene sage]

do you just slowly bb your way through?

[slow spade]

As that psyker told me, you don't

[bitter turtle]

if you mean trash gunner mobs

you suffer

LOL

[serene sage]

I mean ellites

[agile forge]

Dome + rapid fire brain rupture works well

[bitter turtle]

bb is fast if you kill elites to keep spamming venting shriek

[agile forge]

if you have EP and the brain rupture modifier

[bitter turtle]

so ironically

its easier to kill a line of elite gunners

[agile forge]

and protects your team

[bitter turtle]

than trash ones

lul

[serene sage]

BB hurts my sould cause vets just frag the things I bb

[agile forge]

or you can shriek to just murder them

[bitter turtle]

generic mob trash gunners

are unironically

the biggest bane of my existence

on psyker

[tiny summit]

BB EP is nice vs gunners. But other than that best bet is rushing them and staggering them with purg lmb

[bitter turtle]

too insignificant to bb

too far away to set on fire

[serene sage]

wait how do you fast cast BB

or do you mean BB is fast "enough"

[tiny summit]

EP

[bitter turtle]

BB has a passive that speeds it up if you cast your ability

i dont even run EP

[serene sage]

with purg I assume you want left keystone

[bitter turtle]

warp charge venting shriek to spam

[serene sage]

instead of empowered

[bitter turtle]

yeah I go left with venting shriek

[tiny summit]

Yea, I use warp charges now

[agile forge]

Yeah, I've gone back and forth on purgatus

[serene sage]

ah kinetic resonance

that's right

[agile forge]

I tend to take warp charges on it and shriek

and I keep the dome and EP for my blazing trauma

[bitter turtle]

it resets the skill really fast

[tiny summit]

I actually like the toughness regen on warp charge now

[bitter turtle]

so you can really pick off a row of gunners fast

if they're elites

if they're trash u get nothing so u suffer

also there's probably more of them so you suffer even more

when i asked psyker chat

answer was

unironically

slide at them spamming lmb fire

and maybe take the ghost on crit talent on tree

that is so cursed

[slow spade]

My psyker friend goes venting + warp charges

He just slides at gunners and then uses lmb to stagger

[bitter turtle]

ya

[slow spade]

Then rmb hold to kill

[tiny summit]

Yep. This is the way

[bitter turtle]

clearly psyker needs chastise the wicked

[serene sage]

how does this look for your classic Purg/BB Psyker?

[bitter turtle]

yeah that's basically what i do

except i take cdr aura

personally

also wildfire is unecessary

[slow spade]

The venting shriek damage upgrade is a waste imo

[tiny summit]

Wildfire is...weird because if you're spamming purg wildfire is barely gonna be significant

[slow spade]

"Technically" purg doesn't hit full burn stacks

So it can help

[serene sage]

yeah I do want to skip it if possible

[slow spade]

But honestly purg kills fast enough

[serene sage]

I have been playing so much vet I don't mind a psyker side dish

last I tried trauma psyker and it felt terrible

[slow spade]

I play ogryn for fun

But honestly I feel weaker than my vet

So now I have a lvl 30+21 Ogryn and lvl 30+450 Vet

[serene sage]

im assuming this is more or less optimized

[bitter turtle]

you can take the crit talents

on teh right side

instead of battle meditation

[slow spade]

Why the venting shriek damage?

It just seems bad

[serene sage]

that's creeping flame?

[slow spade]

Idk name

[serene sage]

6 stacks of flame instead of damage

[serene bough]

Mg4 supremacy

[slow spade]

Just what it does

[serene sage]

o.o

[slow spade]

Yeah

[serene sage]

yeah that's better

no?

[slow spade]

For a talent point, that could go for dodge or crit?

[tiny summit]

This is the actual one. Had a mistake.

[slow spade]

I'd easily drop it

[bitter turtle]

id take it

its ok

at 100 peril

[sonic marlin]

big sword? big range!

[bitter turtle]

it kills nearly all trash mobs

[serene sage]

so, still Nexus Flurry for Purge?

[bitter turtle]

and u only really use it

at1 00 peril

[slow spade]

Warp flurry + nexus iirc

[tiny summit]

Yep because nothing else is good

[slow spade]

I find it low impact

[sonic marlin]

this is what 69 hounds looks like

[slow spade]

I wish I could fit Run and Gun on Purg

It seems funny

[serene sage]

I just thought the -peril on kill and +toughness on peril quell combo is neat
maybe the numbers simply don't check out?

[tiny summit]

Looks like the shifting flesh from Darkest Dungeon

[bitter turtle]

its ok, I jsut think the crit ones are better

you crit fairly often

[serene sage]

lastly flakiac on purg right boy? last question on psyker stuff

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/2088ffa85bbd4338b0e026c8129436a7.png

[slow spade]

I find the -peril on kill to have a chance to save yourself from a fuckup rather than quell

[tiny summit]

It's that purg doesn't build enough peril to worry about it

[slow spade]

Flak and unarmored is what I went with

[tiny summit]

With warp charges you'll quell by shrieking

[serene sage]

it's okay we have vent 👍

on really low CD with how much CDR we take

[bitter turtle]

yeah you basically spam vent a lot

and go over 100 peril all the time

[slow spade]

Indeed, which is why its probably low impact with shriek but eh

[serene sage]

alright, time to try the "plasma at home" class

[slow spade]

Voidstrike will make you sad

[serene sage]

technically we have high cleave, wallpen and heat mechanic

[slow spade]

I know I am when I see it

[serene sage]

clearly it's plasma

basically

[tiny summit]

It made me sad at first. Now I have warp flurry and quell on weakspot. Actually like it now

[slow spade]

As a plasma user, it makes me very sad in comparison

[tiny summit]

It being infinite and no reload is nice

[agile forge]

Also it's spookier

very important.

you feel happy to use it on trash too

[slow spade]

For longer kill times and less cleave 😔

I personally just use purg instead

[agile forge]

I guess the difference is it comes in a psyker shell instead of a veteran shell really

I've been playing with DD voidstrike

[sharp ember]

does voidstrike still stunlock bosses

[slow spade]

Though I wish Purg could get Psykinetic Aura

[slow spade]

No

[agile forge]

it can if you go brain rupture

which isn't the worst idea

It's only assail that locks it out right?

[tiny summit]

No balls

[slow spade]

A random psyker I played with recently used it and didn't do any stuns

[agile forge]

Obviously assail and purgatus is a great combo too

[slow spade]

Which is the best blitz for a purg psyker 😔

[agile forge]

but brain rupture works

I should try assail purgatus actually

maybe that's the missing piece to me enjoying it atm

[slow spade]

Assail gives purg its only missing role which is long range

[serene sage]

how we killing carapce and bosses with assail purg boys

[agile forge]

Dome rupture EP purgatus wasn't bad but didn't have the burst damage on crowds

[agile forge]

melee

[tiny summit]

DS4

[slow spade]

Deimos for cara, purg for bosses

[ruby rose]

Time to gamble all of the money I made off my last maelstrom on brunt weapons

[serene sage]

I stil refuse to go into melee range vs carapace if I can help it tbh

[tiny summit]

Gambling bad

[agile forge]

I was doing it with EP/Dome/kinetic barrage (or whatever it's called) rupture but I don't like to leave the warp charge synergy on the table for purgatus

[slow spade]

Force push them down

[tiny summit]

But DS4 is so satisfying poking and dodging crushers

[agile forge]

and purgatus shriek is a great combo which is a shame to not use

so I guess the next thing to do is assail/shriek/warp charges

[slow spade]

Purg dome isn't that good now that you can't spam infinite shields

[serene sage]

how often do you craft?

[slow spade]

Conga line of domes until you can purg staff gunners

[tiny summit]

Psykers/Ogryns having to actually make choices between sides of the trees.

[slow spade]

I misd that...

[ruby rose]

A lot

[serene sage]

I have like 2-3 builds for each class and I don't see myself needing more 🤔

[agile forge]

well as I said, I would be using the double speed bonus rupture for it

but, awkward

[serene sage]

then again I spend 70% of my time using one gun

so

[agile forge]

you don't get to make your windows so well with purgatus with that

[tiny summit]

I need more

[agile forge]

so I stick with that style for trauma instead

and get into arguments with people about shriek vs dome

in #psyker-class

[slow spade]

Indeed

[tiny summit]

I want more loadouts so I can have vape nation loadout and a few actual VoC loadouts

[slow spade]

My psyker friend hates the psyker discord

My loadouts are almost all the same

Just a different gun

VoC + Survivalist + Krak but with mg la or Columbus today? UwU

[crude ermine]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Oh wait wrong room

[agile forge]

take plasma as an excuse to use frags

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo say thank you for ammo

[slow spade]

Unironically yes

I have 2 plasma builds

[ruby rose]

I run infil with my plasma and frags but yeah it's either that or VoC with chainaxe, kraks, and the mk8 brauto

[slow spade]

One is shredder with tinkerer but no Iron Will

One is shredder with iron will and 5% crit lol

[slow spade]

Survivalist needs a buff 💪

[slow spade]

I don't use infil as I find positioning to not matter as much with plasma

Out of position? Fire
Ally stuck? Fire again
Ally stuck behind wall? Charged fire

[ruby rose]

I use to stack damage buffs

If I want something very dead

[slow spade]

Ah

I usually go into melee for bosses

Ogryns get the funny 35% damage bonus from talents

So its usually not needed

[inland orchid]

thanks for the daka big man

[ruby rose]

I use a knife for clear on that build so unless I'm holding aggro and backdodging I'm not doing shit for dmg

[slow spade]

Psword user 💪

[tiny summit]

2 Exe builds, 2 VoC builds, 1 Infil

[slow spade]

I spent WAY too much time getting a good psword to not use it

[slow spade]

5 VoC builds 💪

[tiny summit]

VoC was a mistake

[slow spade]

Best of the best only for me 💅

Thankfully not having the damage buffs from the other ults isn't too bad

[agile forge]

Keystones give enough damage

[slow spade]

Ping keystone 💪

[tiny summit]

I think a neat buff to Exe would be removing range requirements from talents while active

[agile forge]

Marksman's focus columnus is absolutely hilarious

[slow spade]

16% minimum damage

[agile forge]

and ping's great on basically anything

[slow spade]

I mean just reverting the nerf would help

[tiny summit]

I also think ping was a mistake

[agile forge]

It gets people pinging

and hopefully they carry that into playing on other classes

[slow spade]

It used to be 50% damage instead of 25% damage and 25% weakspot

[agile forge]

tying buffs to pings is a great change imo

[tiny summit]

Would be nice but I want something more

[slow spade]

Ping keystone is probably one of the healthiest keystones they could add

[tiny summit]

I disagree. Since it just promotes spam pinging

[agile forge]

weakspot damage is very weakly implemented too

[slow spade]

Helps the team + encourages good habits + useful for all builds

[tiny summit]

Imo pinging should be a information tool. Not a free pinata

[slow spade]

Nope because multiple pings don't stack

So you lose on damage by ping spamming

[serene sage]

Imagine the damage also applies to melee

[slow spade]

So it encourages pinging when you need it

[serene sage]

Then Exec Stance will be so strong

[tiny summit]

Not the point of spam pinging. Every pinged enemy turns into a pinata of toughness, stamina and dmg buff

[agile forge]

So long as it's not literally bind-to-M1 pinging, imo people should always try to have something pinged

[agile forge]

a weaker pinata if you spam it though

[tiny summit]

Still a free pinata

[agile forge]

it's not worth it to swap from an 8-stack ping to a 1-stack ping

[slow spade]

Only for 4% damage 5% stamina/toughness if you have that takent

[agile forge]

you're losing the pinata that didn't get killed first though

[slow spade]

Which is literally weaker than a lvl 1 perk

[tiny summit]

Also the dmg buff from redirect fire stays at the max stacks when refreshed from the very next ping regardless of stacks

[agile forge]

so long as you ping the next target after your first one dies though there's no problem imo

that's just good play regardless of keystone

[slow spade]

Again, if you have that talent and that one is a team-wide buff

[agile forge]

better to have something pinged than nothing

the only time you shouldn't have something pinged is if there's either nothing to ping or you're too busy and can't afford the action economy to do it

[tiny summit]

Still a information tool that turns into a free pinata to promote every pingable enemy into a pinata imo is not smartly designed.

[slow spade]

You are always better off saving for stacks rather than ping spamming with the way its set up

Surprisingly good design imo

[tiny summit]

In a game where the difficulty scales by spamming more pingable enemies

[serene sage]

I mean if your teammates are hitting the pinata, then information is relayed

I don't see an argument in this tbh

[slow spade]

Not the ping keystone's fault fatshark buffed spawns THREE fucking times

[serene sage]

You ping so you or your teammates can focus high priority targets

And you're complaining that the high prio target is killed?

[slow spade]

My only issue with ping is it doesn't always ping what you want

[tiny summit]

No it isn't. For the dmg bonus on large targets yea but there is no reason to save stacks as again, every enemy turns into a consistent return on toughness, stamina and refreshing dmg buff. It's not really smart design if it promotes just tagging every rager after another

[slow spade]

pings the shotgunner instead of the bulwark

[agile forge]

I mean if the moment the first target dies the next gets pinged, what's the bad teamplay there?

[slow spade]

Except there is because larger bonuses?

[agile forge]

Well, it's arguably better to just have something pinged over nothing

even if you get a lesser stack

[slow spade]

Like if you got diminishing returns from stacks then yeah

[agile forge]

unless things are dying half a second after you ping and then you react and ping the next one within half a second

[slow spade]

But you get the same value perstack

[agile forge]

then you get some less good returns I guess

but it's still good

the only thing you don't wanna do is have an 8 stack and not dump it on something

[slow spade]

So ping the scary bois is encouraged rather than spam

[agile forge]

and don't overwrite an 8 stack with a 1 stack on a different target

[slow spade]

Lol yeah sometimes I make that mistake

[tiny summit]

It's that ping is free. Absolutely free. It turns just pointing out every small taggable enemy into a consistent return of toughness, stamina and dmg. There is no resource management, nothing to give for it except for talent points in the lobby. Ping should be an information tool imo...not a system that rewards pinging every shotgunner after another

[slow spade]

"Don't worry guys I just turned that +48% damage into +16% 😎"

[agile forge]

Only point against it is that it's too strong tbh

for something that's free

MF is great but it's gameplay warping to maintain at high stacks

same with DD on psyker

[slow spade]

You're thinking "omg free take it" instead of how to best use your talent

[agile forge]

Focus Target is just there, passively being a chad

[slow spade]

The average skill level in darktide is low but you don't see many ping spammers

At lesst in auric

[serene sage]

Is that how you play it? Because that's not how I play it.

And before you ask, yes my redirect fire uptime is near 100% in combat

[slow spade]

Thank you Fatshark for the 50 gunners per room UwU

[serene sage]

You can't say a talent is badly designed because some players use it badly

[tiny summit]

The larger bonuses mean nothing when instead of saving bonuses...again. Every enemy turns into a pinata for a consistent stream of toughness, stamina and dmg. There's no scaling to it, every stack is the same. So by the talents design you get the same value if you spam it because you will always have a stack or 2 and then the enemy gets deleted immediately and then you get another stack or 2 on the next target. The only relevant time to save stacks is monstronsities for the dmg bonus on target

[serene sage]

I think you're overthinking it.

[slow spade]

Except that pinging like that might miss breakpoints

Like I need 3 stacks to instant kill dreg gunners on arm

[serene sage]

Not like the other 11 keystones are high skilled big brain talents that requires resource management

[tiny summit]

It's not how I play. I'm talking about how it's design and what it promotes. And it 100% promotes spamming

[serene sage]

Fuck the Ogryn keystone is literally just free ammo

MF is just a hit head good

What's the resource management on that

[slow spade]

I mean if you got that idea and it doesn't reflect that in normal play. Perhaps it might be a needless concern 🤔

[serene sage]

Beyond how much time you spend in Kovaks

[slow spade]

Besides, do you "really" see ping spammer vets?

[tiny summit]

And barely anyone uses it because it's a chance. Ping is free. Ping is always there on demand. Ping provides for the entire team. Ping is the no brainer choice of the keystones.

[slow spade]

I've seen only ping spamming psykers

[tiny summit]

Yes

[slow spade]

And I haven't

[tiny summit]

Because yes how the talent is designed will promote min-maxers to spam it

[slow spade]

"Min max"

Bro I'm a psword, plasma, VoC, Survivalist player with a 530 plasma gun

Min maxing is what I do

[tall torrent]

Ping spammers will ping spam regardless if they’re playing veteran

[slow spade]

And ping spamming isn't it

[tiny summit]

Yet it 100% does reflect that in normal play. If you understand how the talent works...it promotes to turn every enemy into a pinata for consistent toughness, stamina and dmg buffs to the team

[slow spade]

"Does reflect in normal play" ah yes the constant complaints of ping spamming overshadows all the other keystones

Brb staring at loner zealots woth martyrdom

[tiny summit]

Yea and now you're rewarding it more. Ping spammers existed before...now you're just encouraging everyone to be one

[slow spade]

I think you're pointing out a flaw that isn't an issue

[serene sage]

where are you seeing these "min-maxers"?

[tiny summit]

It's like my least concerned gripe of the game. Just my thoughts on a poorly designed keystones for player behavior but hey a marvelous designed keystone for providing bonuses to a team.

[slow spade]

Like of ALL the balance issues, ping keystone is far from the worst

[tall torrent]

As long as they’re actually killing the things they tag rather than purely tag for the fun of it, I don’t have issues

[serene sage]

because ping vets barely ping in my games

[slow spade]

^

Even in fucking MAELSTROM

Holy shit pisses me off

[serene sage]

that's not how I play nor the vast majority of players use it imo

[slow spade]

The buffs stack just please ping AAAAAAAAAAA

[serene sage]

so far I think your problem is either personal or exagerrated

[tiny summit]

Imo ping should be an information tool. Not an incentive to tag every enemy in a squad because you're rewarded.

It's a argument against ping on the principle on how it's designed. Not that it isn't bad or useful.

[inland orchid]

it can be both imo, feels nice to highlight someone from far away and get more than just info bout it's location

[slow spade]

Tbh I just don't think that's an issue like at all

[serene sage]

it still is? I ping bulwarks because I want them dead fast so non-stagger, non piercing weapons can do their jobs

im not crying if teammates start shooting it

because that's the fucking point?

[slow spade]

Even if Darktide was perfect, I wouldn't touch ping keystone at all

Except tweak how strong the team buffs are

[tiny summit]

You know there's a difference between pinging a balwark vs being rewarded for pinging every shotgunner after another

[tall torrent]

Yes and good players know if they should keep their tag on a trapper that got away instead of immediately tagging a shotgunner & killing it for toughness gain

But also, bad players can technically still help if they go for shotgunner tag and kill it for toughness gain because at least they’d be contributing dmg buff & toughness, it just won’t be as impactful as tracking disablers

[serene sage]

you see, I have seen anyone pinging one shotgunner after another

they hold M1 and kill

I know I do

[tiny summit]

Lucky you

[tall torrent]

The only case when u actually should tag one after another after another is if your weapon really needs +8% dmg to hit a 1 shot breakpoint

[serene sage]

then that's a you problem tbh cause so far no one here seems to have that problem

[inland orchid]

ive seen where they see a roamin squad and ping every elite in there before goin in, nice vet

[serene sage]

like I have seen people ping a single shotgunner for damage, sure

but that's once in a while

[agile forge]

tbh I usually ping the thing I'm shooting at to help me to hit the

*them

it's easier to make out where the head is if they're in a crowd

[tiny summit]

I have an issue that on principle how it's designed does promote spamming tag one after another because again you get a consistent stream of toughness, stamina and refreshed redirect fire off of every single kill.

[agile forge]

so my zealot is usually ping-shoot straight away

[serene sage]

then that's ping being used as information tool

[agile forge]

I miss less

[tiny summit]

Again least issue of issues.

[serene sage]

which is completely valid as they argued

[agile forge]

and also if I miss somebody else can mop up my mess

[tiny summit]

Again. The keystone with how it's designed does in fact promote the behavior

[serene sage]

but it doesn't

[tiny summit]

Yes it does

[serene sage]

again, no one here seems to have the problem you do

[tiny summit]

You turn every ping into a pinata

[agile forge]

I have much bigger problems with groups who don't ping

[serene sage]

obviously I can't say for the entire comminty

[tiny summit]

Doubt

[serene sage]

but neither can you

[agile forge]

as I said, I'm happy to have a skill which at least trains people to ping at all

Pinging too much is much better than not pinging

At least I know the direction you're looking at

[tiny summit]

And that's completely valid! I'm saying I don't like the design of rewarding off of every single ping that is completely free

[serene sage]

I don't know why you have this double standard for ping keystone

[agile forge]

how do you feel about, say, feel no pain? or blazing piety?

[serene sage]

when pinging is in fact more APM intensive than half the other keystones

many of which you just take and turn brain off

[agile forge]

those are both free power

without any interaction really

a little on FNP but you know what I mean

[serene sage]

if it's "on principle" then again it's a you problem

on principle every keystone should change the way you play but look at feel no pain, or like all the zealot keystones that just provide passive bonuses

[tiny summit]

Completely different keystones, how they work and aren't tied to a free, information tool. Next question.

[agile forge]

Only blazing piety imo, you have to leverage the other two a little more

[serene sage]

It's relevant because you are arguing some sort of "intended" design when such intentions aren't likely to be there

[agile forge]

but yeah

[serene sage]

simply by looking at other keystones

again, double standard

[agile forge]

There's bigger gaps on intentionality when you look at shit like the ripper gun V's stability being a negative modifier for mobile hipfire

[slow spade]

Tbh I wonder how you would even change ping keystone to "not be free"

[serene sage]

on a Cooldown timer I guess, no buff until 3s after

[slow spade]

Like the first stack does nothing? Cooldown? Etc etc

[tiny summit]

No because they are buffs for how the class is going to function. They are tied to actual gameplay of the class and not a free tool that was supposed to be information for the player. Feel No Pain doesn't promote spam tagging every shotgunner because it doesn't reward the player for tagging every enemy one after another

[serene sage]

after which you get 2.3 stacks instead of 1

[tall torrent]

Allow veteran to tag possibly multiple enemies at the same time

So if you have a gunner tagged and you need to track a trapper, u can tag the trapper and the gunner’s tag stays

If that’s the info aspect you want, that prob solves it

[serene sage]

Feel No Pain is good because you don't need to interact with gameplay to get values out of it?
Focus Fire is bad because you need to ping enemies to get values out of it?

[tiny summit]

Dunno. It's more due to the keystone additions like toughness, stam and redirect fire. I think if the stacks were weighted differently then it would actually be designed to save stacks

[tiny summit]

You really don't understand my argument do you?

[serene sage]

You really don't understand my argument do you?

[tall torrent]

If the stacks’ dmg buffs increased exponentially instead of linearly then maybe

But then there’s the issue of people hoarding stacks so they don’t ping things which unironically is what most people are doing with the keystone rn

[slow spade]

I liked Foxhope's suggestion of a cooldown but faster stack gain

[agile forge]

this whole thing is a solution in search of a problem imo but yeah

[serene sage]

You are having this hard on purist idea about how ping should be used when

1. That's not how it actually plays out in game
2. We are not even such intentionality exists in the first place

[agile forge]

Fatshark has a big ol' pile of problems to deal with as it is

[tiny summit]

Feel No Pain doesn't promote the player to tag every enemy possible for possible returns. Player behavior. That's what I'm talking about. Ping is an information tool. The keystone rewards the player by turning every tag into a pinata, which promotes spam tagging because why wouldn't you? You get free returns off of every single tag

[tall torrent]

The only really free return is target down for 10% toughness & stamina

[agile forge]

It's not free returns off every single tag, it's free returns off every single tagged target killed

subtle difference

[tall torrent]

RF maintenance I just wouldn’t call free if you’re spam tagging because it doesn’t go higher

[agile forge]

if you spam tag you are squandering the bonus

[tall torrent]

And frankly if they tag every single elite/special they see but immediately kill after tag I have no issues with it

[slow spade]

Tbh I wish more keystones had the ping problem where its too easy to get value from it UwU

[tall torrent]

That’s called being efficient

[tiny summit]

My choices would be CD or different stack weights. Free toughness, stamina and redirect fire refresh whether you agree or not, yes does promote the idea of spam tagging every possible enemy because yes, it rewards the team off of every single tag

[agile forge]

Average plasma vet gameplay

[tall torrent]

Plus, if they have target down, they’re giving me toughness, which I can’t rly complain about

[tiny summit]

No you aren't if every enemy is killed before the stacks reach cap

[serene sage]

The keystone rewards the player by turning every tag into a pinata, which promotes spam tagging because why wouldn't you?
Again, my argument is

1. That's not how it actually plays out in game (for example, in my games, no one tag every single fucking shotgunners before shooting them, they might ping one and then M1 to kill the rest, your problem is exaggerated)
2. We are not even such intentionality exists in the first place (optimally ping needs to be done on high prio targets because a lot of enemies will die in one shot. if someone doesn't know how to ping effectively then that's a player problem and not a keystone problem).

There, I spelled it out for you.

[tall torrent]

The funny thing is plasma doesn’t need to do that, plasma with RF buff alone usually hits all the 1 tap breakpoints u care abt (gunner 1HS, flamer 1HS, shotgunner bodyshot)

[tiny summit]

Only waste situation is missing out on max stacks on a beefier target

[tiny summit]

Yes. It does play out

[slow spade]

Yeah I personally like the cd the most just as long as it gets faster stacks once cd is off (same value but now spam is bad is the intent)

[serene sage]

so far, in this chat, you are the only person who has had that experience

[tall torrent]

If you were using smth like a Helbore that maybe needed 2 stack tag on top of 5 stack RF to get a 1 shot breakpoint and you’re spam tag-killing because of that, I got no problems cuz that’s fucking dedication

[serene sage]

in my time playing, it has never been a problem
people who bind ping to M1 is a different problem

just so we don't confuse the 2

[slow spade]

Purg psyker with ping binded to M1

I actually play with one that does that

[crude ermine]

Another scab melee only on my psyker

[slow spade]

Its an "experience" in maelstroms with bum

[tiny summit]

It is a keystone problem if how the stacks how weighted, you aren't exactly losing out if you kill every tagged enemy after another.

Only missed out case, with also mind you the power level we are at right now, is pretty much orgyns and monstronsities to miss out on the higher dmg bonus on target

[crude ermine]

You know what time it is

[slow spade]

Recon lasgun time

[crude ermine]

God fucking dalnit this is vet chat

[slow spade]

Already banned for offtopic

[agile forge]

play gunker

same thing

but spicier

[serene sage]

skill issue

[agile forge]

how many assails can I get away with in scier's gaze today

answer: always 1 fewer than I think I can

[hollow ibex]

i've never blown up as many times as using assail + sg

[tall torrent]

I’m wondering which breakpoints do u actually lose from not doing 2 stack rapid-tag-kill

[tiny summit]

That or no one notices. Because even I don't get annoyed. Again. Talking about player behavior and how it's designed but apparently no one understands. But we can drop it since it's going nowhere

[tall torrent]

A lot of weapons just gain enough from RF 5 stacks

RF 5 stack is 7.5%
Tag 2 stack is 8%

[serene sage]

if you need ping for non-ogryn enemies for breakpoints then it's likely not worth it in the first place imo

[tall torrent]

Like, maybe ragers?

[serene sage]

like pingin before evey single elite you kill (assuming not binding M1) is dedication

[tall torrent]

Ragers u may not 1 shot

[slow spade]

I know I need 3 stacks + 12% damage to get the 1-hit body (arm) on dreg gunners for

[tall torrent]

But I don’t think 8% pushes it over to a 1 shot

[tall torrent]

Yea but you don’t get 3 stacks in rapid-tag&kill applications

If you’re spam tagging & immediately killing what u tagged, you’ll stay at 2 stacks most of the time

So that’s already outside of the spam tag area

[slow spade]

I know just saying the range I need for notable bps

[tall torrent]

The only case where you might need to rapid tag & kill is likely that u didn’t take RF so you have to use tag itself to make up for a breakpoint

[serene sage]

actually if you think about it, putting ping on a CD timer would actually promote spamming it

[tall torrent]

That’s my conclusion

[serene sage]

because you want to optimize CD time

you don't want your ping to just sit doing nothing
let it constant stacking up actually make you think when to use it and when not to

instead of using on CD

[tall torrent]

Would rather people ping more than trying to hoard up enough stacks for a big dmg boost on 1 target

[junior needle]

RECON
LASGUN
STRIPPED DOWN
INFERNUS

COMBAT BLADE
LACERATE
FLESH TEARER

[serene sage]

suffer

[tiny summit]

Would depend on time and how much of bonus it would be. Ping keystone w/o anything extra, is a pseudo CD to have the most dmg bonus but never locked out. Different weighted stacks would shift it. Spam pinging is more about the toughness, stamina and redirect fire. Consistent stream.

[frank ether]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1093978367159717991.gif?size=64

[finite imp]

@serene sage I was right. The devs have admitted themselves they've been working night and day to fix helldivers 2 and they have even posted a day by day update to what they're doing, what's wrong, and why it's happening

[junior needle]

CRIT CHANCE
CRIT DAMAGE PERKS

[finite imp]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/3/4206994256761522921/

[junior needle]

We'll see how it compares to fatsharks performance in the coming weeks

[tiny summit]

Played Helldivers 2 last night. Pretty fun

[finite imp]

They literally have already said and done more in 2 days than darktide's entire development since release

so

literally have posted day by day updates lol

[frank ether]

aaaaah

[junior needle]

Oh wow an actual apology and admittance of wrongdoing

You don't get that out of obesefish

[inner olive]

And cosmetics can be acquired by playing the game not just spending real cash money

[finite imp]

yep i already have like 300 funny money

[frank ether]

I'm stealing that

I'm waiting a little bit befurr buying helldivers

I don't wanna be a fomo buyer anymore

[junior needle]

Wow this looks even better the more you go down

They actually post solutions for problems?

And explanations of what's happening?

Shame about the anticheat though

No one likes the kernel level BS

[serene sage]

FS
What's wrong: Exhilarating Takedown causes you to take damage
What we are doing: nothing for a few months
What can we do: switch a + sign to - sign, but we won't, not for a few months
What you can do: just don't take it lol

[tiny summit]

Acceptable. Cool rat and music. Thank you obesefish

[frank ether]

why is that even neccessary in a pve game

[tiny summit]

I have 4 Chinese gachas on my PC, so I can't speak

[serene sage]

Allegedly they have a global campaign map and don't want people to cheat and wipe the community goal.

I'm not sure how necessary that is

Just saying what I heard

[zealous wyvern]

i am so excited for darktide 2

can you imagine?

[frank ether]

can't wait to not buy it

[serene sage]

No

[junior needle]

CCP wants access to tons of computers and "muh game security" is an excuse to do that

[zealous wyvern]

its going to have dynamic movement, new graphics, new enemy models

new engine hype

[tiny summit]

Combination of things. They shared that cheaters would load into the prior game and do a mission with someone and that person now has maxed currency, circumventing all progression. I can remember it was so common in Borderlands random cheaters would join. It's not the largest problem but still a problem for other player experiences. I think the main reason is the community global war and live service verification of microtransactions

[frank ether]

ehh

its what it is

[tiny summit]

The war room has a map and based on community effort on completing missions you push back the enemy from advancing towards Super Earth.

[serene sage]

Yeah live service needs to stop you from showmethemoney the game to death

I understand though I hate it

League is moving toward Vanguard as well

So we will have to see

[junior needle]

Vanguard is even worse

Also riot is totally owned by tencent

[sharp ember]

wats vanguard

[junior needle]

Riots anticheat

[near sable]

Klevel anticheat

[serene sage]

Riot proprietary anti cheat

[tiny summit]

My question is how effective are these anti-cheats to ask for this level of security?

[serene sage]

Allegedly quite good

Valorant has few cheaters

For example

[junior needle]

But also extremely invasive and technically gives the anticheat the ability to do all sorts of things behind the scenes

[serene sage]

League has some scripting issues which I imagine Vanguard can help

[near sable]

me outwitting the anti-cheat by hole punching a sticky note and putting it in the center of the screen

[serene sage]

gasps

[tiny summit]

Original Kingdom Under Fire being released on steam and people seeing what looks like a bitcoiner miner processing behind the scenes

[serene sage]

With someone as big as Riot who undoubtedly has many many eyes looking at them, they have more to lose then installing miners or spyware imo.

I think people hate anticheat on principle rather than practicality

[tiny summit]

But chiiiiiinaaaaa

[crude ermine]

Yeah I'm reaal tired of dealing with shit psykers as a psyker so I'm just gonna go plasma shout vet for those maelstroms I give up

[tiny summit]

Yea

[tiny summit]

Don't let the intrusive thoughts win

Or run this

[near sable]

Let the intrusive thoughts win

Run this

[serene sage]

Let the intrusive thoughts win

Hot box the entirety of Tertium

[tiny summit]

Operation Hotbox

Bonus points if you find enhanced blitz

[toxic leaf]

psykers are just so unchill to play in my experience, because you cant really get away with things that you do as ogryn or zealot and you have no get out of jail free abilities like vet (shout)

[frank ether]

kernel level ac has been around for like decades

[crude ermine]

Oh fuck RIGHT OFF

[toxic leaf]

so you have to be on your game in a histg

[frank ether]

doesn't do anything new

[near sable]

me when the tox gas has tenderized me

[frank ether]

its all illusion of safety

[crude ermine]

OF COURSE THERES ONLY ONE PSYKER WHEN I PLAY VET

[junior needle]

A war for heroes? I only played the 3d ones thankfully

[toxic leaf]

like ill play psyker for 1 game and be like not again for the rest of the week because its exhausting

[tiny summit]

Had a game of 3 Psykers and me as Vet this week. One of my smoothest games in a while

[toxic leaf]

all my multiple psyker games end in failure

[junior needle]

I don't hate it on principle, I just know that companies are very unscrupulous with your data and will happily pay fines (assuming they're caught) if they think it's worth the effort collecting it.

Also because that shit can look at basically everything you do on your computer

[toxic leaf]

multiple vets? almost always wins. multiple ogryns? same. multiple zealots or psykers? lets roll some dice

[tiny summit]

Yea that one. The ones were from the original Xbox days on PC are fine though. Very weird.

[tiny summit]

Jokes on them. They have to see all my hen- I mean. Yea you're right. This is ridiculous

[junior needle]

Me when I've tenderised my meat

[frank ether]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-speech-bubble-cat-drinking-water-stupid-stupid-cat-gif-12327862702270255434

[tiny summit]

It's so funny seeing a chaos spawn vs 4 vets with kraks

Exe MF Laspistol fun

[toxic leaf]

chaos spawn against multiple vets with columnus huhu

[shrewd sable]

also because even if the company doesn't do anything with your data, companies get breached all the time and those people may do something with it

[crude ermine]

So turns out it wasn't even a psyker

It was another vet

[sonic marlin]

i hate archivum sycorax so much

[serene sage]

How did you manage to mistake the two girl

What that's the best map

[shrewd sable]

gunkers with columnus can seem like vets

[serene sage]

Probably easiest, too

[runic hound]

advise me fellas

[stiff glacier]

Vs flak id say

[toxic leaf]

hit n run > something, carapace to flak or unarmored or maniac

[shrewd sable]

hit & run -> stripped down imo

[toxic leaf]

crit chance is good on columnus, it has nasty crits

[runic hound]

so yall think its worth the melk bucks?

[toxic leaf]

if its the best you have

i dont really like the low stab

[junior needle]

Oh, that's a melk buy? I wouldn't honestly

[runic hound]

im afraid it is

[tiny summit]

Hypest mid mission event in the game going through the tunnel with The Gauntlet playing

[shrewd sable]

if u dont have anything near that and want a columnus, i would go for it til later unless you have plenty of resources

[toxic leaf]

tbh you can probably buy whites and roll something better

[runic hound]

my vet has no level appropriate gear

[toxic leaf]

columnus has a great variety of usable blessings to get 2/4

[junior needle]

That'll do you fine then

[shrewd sable]

low stab can be fixed with some of the vet talents depending on your build

[runic hound]

im a hardcore plasma gun fanatic

[toxic leaf]

it plays a lot differently than plasma, so be aware

if you're not plasteel poor, id just gamble some whites

[runic hound]

i know, i used col iags before

[junior needle]

You only really need dumdum for blessings. For max damage performance change both perks, they're more important than a second blessing on IAG's

[tiny summit]

No unless you have enough melk coins to spend to not worry but at that point of playing you could probably get a nice one.

[toxic leaf]

columnus has good blessings to choose from and its not tethered to a single one to make it usable

[junior needle]

You can change one blessing if you really want stripped

[runic hound]

i am everything poor unfortunately

[toxic leaf]

lol

well shit

[junior needle]

It's got uh, the bugged dumdum and stripped and uh

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

FF and ds are alright

[toxic leaf]

death spitter is fine, doesnt it get fire frenzy?

[tiny summit]

It's an OK columnus. If you want one now and not gonna hurt if something with lvl 4 blessings appear, it's not the worst purchase

[junior needle]

I wouldn't call them good blessings with the close range change to 7m~, but they do something at least

[toxic leaf]

its moreso the fact that columnus doesnt require specific blessings to be good, it has 1 really good ones and 3 or so usable ones that are "fine"

if you hit dum dum, you're good

[tiny summit]

Until dumdum actually does what it says with an actual restriction

[toxic leaf]

i even like speedload on it because its a bullet hose

so more reload speed isnt awful

[runic hound]

are there any other weapons that depend on one certain lvl 4 blessing even just nearly as much as power swords depend on power cycler?

[toxic leaf]

revolvers really need hand cannon

[runic hound]

true, got lucky with an early lvl 3 hand cannon blessing unlock

[toxic leaf]

force swords really want uncanny or unstable

dont even get started on force staves, which require warp flurry and or nexus

[shrewd sable]

knives really like having some form of bleed application for hordes, and uncanny if you arent vet

[runic hound]

this is the one i have for zealot rn, not perfect, but its the best i have (it goes hard af)

[shrewd sable]

force staves definitely need that hip fire perk according to my results

[runic hound]

for vet, i just really see no reason to use anything but plasma

[toxic leaf]

lmao

[thick flint]

is stopping power important on infantry autoguns?

[runic hound]

i have less than a minute playtime on psyker lmao, thats my next and last class to level up

[toxic leaf]

columnus, zarona revolver, and plasma are all tiers above the other guns

you cant go wrong with any of them

[umbral granite]

I got this on my psyker. It's not perfect either, but it slaps.

[shrewd sable]

sometimes you just get bored and want to play different playstyle

[crude ermine]

Yeah I'm just not even gonna bother

Left the next one because my food was here

[serene sage]

Don't play on tilt go eat

[crude ermine]

I am eating

[runic hound]

i used to consider plasma a counterbalance to vet being kinda bad in general, but honestly, vet has many strong points, like the shout and nade spam

[shrewd sable]

30 free nades on average per match is nuts

[toxic leaf]

a naked vet with nothing equipped other than ammo aura, field tinkerer, and shout with duty and honor is probably more valuable than the average psyker player lol

[runic hound]

its nades being strong is just the cherry on the cake

[shrewd sable]

yelling at a monster so loud he jumps off the bridge is also nuts

[runic hound]

counterpoint: shield

[junior needle]

Stopping power affects your damage modifiers to various armor types on every gun it's on, very important

[runic hound]

nice one, i would love surgical

[shrewd sable]

shield is less value than a lot would have you believe, i think. the toughness regen is nice but the ranged immunity is only really clutch when theres like 10 snipers or something

[junior needle]

You want both surgical and handcannon (unless you're running ws, then you can forego surgical for crucian), you'll get considerably more value out of just surgical than just handcannon

[toxic leaf]

im not trying to bad mouth psykers, its that ammo aura is just insane and grenad refills if you're running with zealots or frag grenade ogryns is insane

and gold toughness is insane

[shrewd sable]

having shield but no ammo to shoot at the snipers so they just one tap you as soon as it drops

[inner olive]

What you eating

[thick flint]

I got a mk V infantry autogun with very solid stats, perfect perks and blessings but 28% stopping power

[crude ermine]

Burger

[junior needle]

Overshield is a constant stupidity buffer for you and your team that also prevents one shots

[thick flint]

this game is rigged

[inner olive]

Nice

[thick flint]

you're not allowed to have fun

[junior needle]

Its value cannot be overstated

[shrewd sable]

yeah, gold toughness is ridiculous

stops corruption damage from poxbursters too iirc

[umbral granite]

Once rolled an ogryn shield with 10% damage but nothing else below 75%. I know the feeling.

[tiny summit]

Imagine if Born Leader allowed like +10 over toughness

[runic hound]

ws?

[junior needle]

weapon specialist, the right keystone. On top of being mechanically very synergistic with the revolver playstyle, one of the reload nodes is very synergistic with crucian.

[sonic marlin]

only thing I hate more is getting a new character from 0 to 30, especially ogryn, its so bad

[tiny summit]

What? Ogryn leveling was my smoothest experience

[runic hound]

thanks

[toxic leaf]

it is, but it is very micro

as in, requires micro

i use deadshot on revolver, but thats because i dont have surgical on mine

[umbral granite]

Did... did hadron decide to not brick me for once...

[toxic leaf]

man if that was a ps6 you'd be cooking with gas

it hurts me to see that on ps3

but yea thats really good, wish the finesse was better

[umbral granite]

It was a purple mission reward when i got it, i was told to roll the hadron gacha and see if it gave me power cycler

also, what makes the mk 6 better than the mk 3? (i dont normally use power swords)

[junior needle]

You can take both together, deadshot reduces the amount of surgical stacks you need

[stiff glacier]

I am convinced power cycler is a myth

It doesnt exist

Just like birds

[toxic leaf]

mk6's horizontal aoes are light attacks vs heavy and the mk6 has a push-stab-overhead combo that deletes crushers and maulers

its relevant because afaik, there is no power difference on charged swings, so for both, you need to charge and aoe swing into hordes, it makes the ps6 quicker

and even if there was a power difference, you're 1 shotting the trash anyway

[umbral granite]

ah i see, because i rolled this recently and swapper out a sprint efficiency perk and a rampage 1 for the lower level power cycler (as i dont have the stronger cycler on the mk6 yet)

[wet frigate]

Why are vets so obsessed with power sword?

[toxic leaf]

you do now, they share blessings

[umbral granite]

No clue tbh, but a lot of people say it's good, might as well try it out...

[toxic leaf]

its because its a very easy to use, very strong melee option for any builds

[wet frigate]

It's not, shovel does everything better and knife is just bonkers level.

[toxic leaf]

ps6 is just charge, light x3 and it clears hordes

nobody is saying its the best, its just very idiot proof for very good performance

no combos needed, no heavies, just charge and swing

[wet frigate]

Just way too slow for my taste and no mobility. So clunky to use.

[balmy flume]

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/chernobyls-mutant-wolves-appear-to-have-developed-resistance-to-cancer-study-finds-13067292

Poxhounds inbound...

[tiny summit]

As long as it's energized it deletes everything. I like caxes and shovels more since they don't require energize but to deny the strengths of the PS is...let's just say questionable

[hollow ibex]

it really doesn't lol

shovel is way below a properly rolled ps6 or rashad

[serene sage]

Do you mean Fenrisian hybrids incoming, heralding the era of the Space Wolves?

[wet frigate]

Very questionable. Niche weapon. The rare occasion I use PS I only charge when I engage a horde to stack slaughterer to max with one swing and never charge again.

[serene sage]

Are you calling the ps niche?

[hollow ibex]

he really just did

[toxic leaf]

the fact that you are questioning why its so popular and then calling it niche

[hollow ibex]

he really just called ps niche

when it's literally THE meta slave vet melee weapon

[agile forge]

If you ain't charging it, it's no wonder why you think it's niche

It's shit uncharged lol

[hollow ibex]

didn't even read the second part of the sentence

he's gotta be memeing

[agile forge]

It's like the only activatable weapon which you don't ever want to be using uncharged

[toxic leaf]

my meta weapon is better than urs

[hollow ibex]

using ps uncharged and then going "why is this weapon so bad"

[tiny summit]

...

[wet frigate]

I did run a cycler on it for the longest time and charge often. So clunky

[hollow ibex]

it can be clunky sure

[agile forge]

It is clunky, no doubt

but it's so powerful

[hollow ibex]

but it's still one of the strongest melee weps in the game lmao

[wet frigate]

But once I got a good knife I never looked back.

[agile forge]

those 2-3 swings you get with it are like nothing else in the game apart from Illisi which only gets one swing

well, good on you

[toxic leaf]

its definitely clunky but thats because its incredibly strong and straight forward

[agile forge]

play what actually feels right to you

will have a much bigger impact than playing a meta weapon you actively dislike

[toxic leaf]

it doesnt require infiltrate memes, it doesnt require any specific playstyle or compliment. just hit charge and swing L1s. thats why people like it

[tiny summit]

There. We understand you value mobility and no clunkiness. But charged PS6 is like the best melee vet can have handling horde and armor

[agile forge]

I like it because it teaches people to make space

[wet frigate]

It's mostly the piss poor evade that alienated me from it.

[agile forge]

if you're pushing yourself into the middle of a swarm with it you're gonna have a very bad time

[toxic leaf]

haha yea its poor mobility and dodge do teach you somet hings

[hollow ibex]

the dodge is bad, but the block is very strong

so not really that big of an issue

[serene sage]

In terms of straight forwardness, I think Rashad is the most brain dead melee

[agile forge]

but it's great to slash at the front of a horde twice/three times and then dodge back to charge it again

[toxic leaf]

yep

[serene sage]

And I crutch that shit so hard

[agile forge]

braindead to play maybe, but not to build it

[toxic leaf]

slash 3 times, push, dodge n charge and swing again

[agile forge]

if you miss a single stat point on it, no easy bromentum chains

[serene sage]

I use rashad cause I'm bad UwU

[agile forge]

and it becomes a good single target weapon

not an all-buggerer like it can be if you godroll it

[toxic leaf]

and its great in a pinch against stray maulers and crushers, whats not to like about it

[agile forge]

I miss being able to use my old janky sub-god rashad

before they changed bromentum

it doesn't cleave now :(

but then again I managed to make a perfect Crusher on my zealot in a single try

so maybe the emperor does love me

[stiff glacier]

I want decent thunder hammer but brunt keeps dropping then

Always damage 30-40%

[umbral granite]

Welp... took the mk 6 into meatgrinder... I like the chainsword better...

[tiny summit]

First PS6 when I decided to try and farm for PC4

[serene sage]

544 it

[tiny summit]

I did. This was it originally

Like. From Oct

[tiny summit]

So what about it are you not liking?

[agile forge]

Chainswords are amazing now tbf

which one were you using?

I haven't tried either yet but I hear nothing but good things

[wet frigate]

Anyone ever measured the Sunder cleave vs Slaughterer stacked cleave?

[junior needle]

Sunder gives way, way, way more cleave

[agile forge]

These days it's usually between Sunder and Bromentum

[wet frigate]

I rolled my sunder 4 and PC 4 into bromemtum and slaughterer, I just hate charging so much.

[toxic leaf]

lol

[agile forge]

Well this is the biggest pile of heresy I've ever seen

[toxic leaf]

no wonder you wait the ps

[agile forge]

exterminatus upon ye planet

[wet frigate]

Nah, felt better!

[toxic leaf]

you rolled off the best blessings lol

[junior needle]

You hate charging, but removed the blessing that reduces how much charging you need?

[toxic leaf]

you right now

[junior needle]

Pswords aren't worth using if you aren't using the charge, you can do much better with other weapons

[wet frigate]

As I said I only charge on first engage to max stacks with one swing. After that bromemtum and slaughter deletes everything in front me easily.

[agile forge]

Don't use a power sword then lol

Man, I don't even have power cycler IV yet

and this guy's just throwing it away

[wet frigate]

I don't anymore, I like to move fast.

[agile forge]

ok well good

[wet frigate]

I can always roll em back

[agile forge]

but don't befoul the almighty Emperor's holy armaments like that

yeah but you can't roll perks now

If Hadron could read this you'd be getting servitored

[umbral granite]

Don't get me wrong, it's a good weapon from the 6 minutes I've spent in the meatgrinder with it, the horde clear is nuts.

However... I like being able to 1-shot mutants/ragers a bit more, and having bloodletter for boss-butchering.

[agile forge]

like literally right now

[wet frigate]

I have tier 4 weakspot and tier 4 flak on it, no need to.

[agile forge]

+weakspot is bad

very bad

it does less than you think

[tiny summit]

This is like being handed a shotgun and then saying the pump is stupid, therefore you just beat people with the gun after first shot

[wet frigate]

It is but it'll do

[torn needle]

What combat blade do yall prefer?

[agile forge]

you know what

I'm calling hadron

[torn needle]

Original or new one?

[agile forge]

had it with this heresy

[raw steppe]

you guys are getting trolled lololol

[wet frigate]

I just don't need to charge it, slaughter gives power and bromemtum doesn't care

[agile forge]

I hear a lot of veterans like haymaker on the VI for horde clear

[raw steppe]

dont take the bait

[agile forge]

I tend to use the III for my knife pervert zealot build

[toxic leaf]

i think in the time it takes for a chainsword animation to play, the charged ps6 can swing twice on muties and kill them

[agile forge]

III is a better assassination weapon

[toxic leaf]

the stab may also one shot them if you hit the dome, not sure

but you're usually swinging at the back of a mutie anyway

[agile forge]

you can get the head through the back

at least, you can with the weapons I'm using on my other classes

[torn needle]

Thank ya

[agile forge]

easy heavy sword IX, duelling sword IV, deimos force sword headshots

[umbral granite]

If you land the initial swing of a reved chainsword after dodging, the mutant will still die even if they've charged past you. And if you backdash and swing before they grab you, theres sometimes a funny bug where you're still grabbed, but the chainsword is still imbedded in them and doing it's thing.

again, the power sword is very clearly a good weapon, But i just preffer the chainsword personally

[umbral granite]

As for the stab to the dome 1-shoting... the one i have does not, even when charged.

[raw steppe]

do you have the 30% node and 25% node

[toxic leaf]

is that with maniac

[umbral granite]

Yes

[toxic leaf]

so i guess it doesnt, unless you didnt take precision strikes

or something idk

[umbral granite]

I got precision strikes...

[raw steppe]

do you have 25% finesse

[toxic leaf]

oh you dont have the 15% elite node

[wanton dawn]

Whats the topic ? Os-ing a mutie with what ?

[umbral granite]

the build i am using does not go down that route

[toxic leaf]

yea i could swear ive one shot them in the training area

but i could be wrong, it looks like i am

[umbral granite]

Basically, it started out debating the power sword, then i showcased that the sword i have with the build i was using doesnt 1-tap muties

[wanton dawn]

I do get consistent os with mine, without much investment either.

[raw steppe]

prob build sux or weapon sux then

[umbral granite]

My build is talored to use the chainsword, not the power sword

and chainsword DOES 1-shot muties

[wanton dawn]

Then again, you get around 8%-12% more dmg by applying mark

The rest could be low finesse, no maniac, or smth

[dawn garnet]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa the hell do i need a headhunter on my psyker for

[wanton dawn]

Ill check later

[raw steppe]

hh 3 is good on psyker

[dawn garnet]

would be a lot better on the vet tho

[wanton dawn]

Slower ttk and anim lock though

[ebon umbra]

rip bonk

[wanton dawn]

Also, vet has 5 nodes that can passively increase all melee dmg (10%, 5%, fire team, desperado and precision strike). Then some other stuff like rending strike, elite and ogryns

[toxic leaf]

dont take fireteam until ammo aura is nerfed im begging you

[wanton dawn]

Dont tell me what to do

[toxic leaf]

but im ur real dad

[wanton dawn]

If u need ammo aura to be great you dont deserve it

[toxic leaf]

i deserve it bcause i am great!

[wanton dawn]

Or you are in no ammo mod

[toxic leaf]

you want me on that wall

[agile forge]

Rumblah says "hi"

and then 5 seconds later says "boom"

Some weapons need it to go from being shit to being good enough

which is shitty design but it is what it is

[umbral granite]

Already had this discussion with the other guys, but, to sum it up quickly:
theres a movement tech to cancel the aim-lock halfway through and the mutie bleeds to death (because i have bloodletter 4 on my chainsword) before it gets to charge again.

Additionally, and this is most important, I like the feel of the chainsword a bit more than the feel of the power-sword

[wanton dawn]

Fine, but you are the one who showed ps not being able to os mutie right ?

[umbral granite]

The sword i had, with the build i have, is incapable of oning a mutie, hence why i was saying "I'll stick with the chainsword i have for now"

[wanton dawn]

Fair enough

[umbral scaffold]

What's the difference between the 5 autoguns? I can't decide which one to pick..

[agile forge]

CIAG is god

the others all exist too I guess

[umbral scaffold]

Okay; why is it "god"?

[hollow ibex]

Agri is very good and less likely to be nerfed

[dawn garnet]

get one of each from brunts and test them out find one you like and roll for it

[hollow ibex]

Insane dps mostly

[dawn garnet]

they usually say what they do ie burst single shot torrent etc

[wanton dawn]

Ciag and agri brauto are above the rest atm

[dawn garnet]

i like burst fire

[tidal rapids]

Hmm, Hadron really wants me to go full Krieg bayonet charge with this one

Probably going to scrap for surgical 4 though

[dawn garnet]

i remember start my vet i got a helbore for the first time and my fucking bayonet actually did more damage than my melee weapon

[slow spade]

I remember hiding all the time because toughness had bleedthrough

1 hit -> -50% hp 💪

[wanton dawn]

Bayonet is arguably strongest vet melee if carapace dont exist

[dawn garnet]

wait that stops?

[slow spade]

Stopped like first patch

It wasn't too bad because everyone was running seditions and uprisings

But you still took easily 30 hp damage

[umbral scaffold]

How's this?

[tidal rapids]

Looks good, even without damage against flak and maniacs

[wanton dawn]

It is okay but it is not great

[slow spade]

The stat you want most is Stopping Power

[umbral granite]

Stopping power seems a bit low, but otherwise decent

[slow spade]

Your lowest stat is stopping power

[umbral scaffold]

Which AG has the lowest recoil? The CAIG?

[agile forge]

Crazy damage for its RoF, quite controllable too

excellent crits

[tidal rapids]

The CIAG is the closest you'll get to becoming a dreg gunner

[agile forge]

It is a pillar of the current meta

[hollow ibex]

the other HHs are more meta, but agriHH is good if you can tame the recoil

[tidal rapids]

What the hell is this Brunt?

[slow spade]

I hope you have Onslaught

[tidal rapids]

I do, but this isn't the hellbore I'm going to spend my plasteel on

[umbral scaffold]

Which mark?

Found this little gem in my armory... :

[bitter turtle]

Thats pretty bad

Bad perks, low stopping

[terse idol]

Carapace is largely stinky

[bitter turtle]

You whiffed 4/4 and the stats are no good too

[terse idol]

And unarmoured ain't that good for the Ia

[umbral scaffold]

I realize this, but if I swapped blessings, the blessings must've been bad.

[terse idol]

Yeeah

[umbral scaffold]

Likely an attempt to salvage the modifiers, or stats.

It's faster than the psyker recon lasgun. Shoots pretty fast and packs a decent punch.

Serviceable. Not optimal.

[bitter turtle]

Scrap it

It's bad

[tidal rapids]

Already did

[bitter turtle]

Only 1/4 good rolls and low damage

[terse idol]

Psyker recon Las?

There's only 1 kind of recon las

Its just 3 variants of 1 weapon

[tidal rapids]

Only cost me some 200K dockets. Hadron's going to brick I swear, but first I need more plasteel

[hollow ibex]

III and VII are the more commonly used ones

Agri HH isn’t bad though

[umbral scaffold]

tyty

[sonic marlin]

this guy is spending money on lasguns

[terse idol]

Uh, I mean they're not bad

[sonic marlin]

but not the best

[wanton dawn]

Yup, does not os without further investment. I will do another test with mutie running though. Reachable with mark

[wise fossil]

Blessings wise? Surgical and Hand Cannon for the Zarona

[wanton dawn]

It was fun to test with an optimized build though

Need to remove audio wtf

Better

[terse idol]

Well I mean

[sonic marlin]

lets see the build

[terse idol]

Thet don't have to be the best

Because the best is broke rn

[sonic marlin]

show the thing

[terse idol]

Can't shame people for using a perfectly serviceable weapon that doesn't kill everything in 0.05 seconds

[wanton dawn]

This is my bayo build

Can probably find more damage with BM instead of sunder

[umbral scaffold]

If you have fire frenzy, on the CIAG V, do you want Dumdum? Or is it more practical to use Deathspitter? Why or why not? My initial impression is that you get baseline for 3.5s with deathspitter for a flat 6% buff. But with bigger things like ogryns and monstros, dumdum would be the better choice.