veteran-class

[late hatch]

but then i play with a guy with over 1800 hours in dt and he flat out refuses to buy simply coz the shop is fomo and overpriced compared to VT

[shadow aurora]

That is a really good question

And a hard one to answer

Id say it depends

Its unfun, but you cant say it was lazy if there was a lot of work put into it

[frank basin]

It was from other guy said exessive rng rather regular rng

[shadow aurora]

Darktides is definitely lazy tho lol

Oh

Well its still a good question regardless

[frank basin]

Yeah the word “exessive rng” inspired me become questioning about it

Thus it become gambling-like

I wonder did Darktide got ban from Germany?

[shadow aurora]

What? Why would it have been?

[frank basin]

Germany don’t like gambling video game

Like loot boxes bán

[shadow aurora]

Well youre not gambling with real money

[frank basin]

Oh

In-game gambling then

[shadow aurora]

Sort of?

Yeah

[frank basin]

This guy said it

[placid portal]

Pretty much

[frank basin]

So it is unfun or lazy design?

[placid portal]

The weapon crafting system do be layers of rng, so much layers even modern tank armor would be jealous

[trim steppe]

both

[frank basin]

I knew it

[thick wolf]

is there footage in here of what a perfect parry looks like

[late hatch]

I think the insane grind might be leftovers from plans to monetise further with battlepass or level skip type purchases, which were probably left out due to backlash over the monetisation already in the game, and the designs were just never remedied

[thick wolf]

I need to practice my devil claw parries

[shadow aurora]

Wdym?

[late hatch]

if i have 700 hours and all 4 classes over level 100 but i dont own all the blessings i think this is bad design

[frank basin]

Yes indeed

[thick wolf]

[someone made a video in Vet chat, but that was a few weeks ago] in general-chat

[frank basin]

I don’t own it too

[thick wolf]

I think that was supposed to be a perfect parry footage

but I just woke up and my brain's not functioning at its capacity rn

[trim steppe]

you just gotta focus up, I'm in the same boat but I do have them all

[shadow aurora]

Im sorry but what exactly is a perfect parry?

[white minnow]

you'll know if you did a perfect parry if you didn't lose that much stamina from it

[thick wolf]

devil claw perfect parry

[frank basin]

Parry not too early but right time

[shadow aurora]

Ive never heard of this ever

Good design fs

[late hatch]

i dont want to waste time shop camping or resources churning out blues to hunt for blessings over using that time to play the game or the resources to try get more fun weapons to play with

[trim steppe]

naw but I agree with you tho

[white minnow]

against block bypass attacks (mauler/crusher overheads, etc.), parrying within 300ms of the attack will consume less stamina

[frank basin]

Imagine parry the shooter bullets

[trim steppe]

They should have just added a tab to Melk where you can buy any blessing for the melk bucks. Done

[thick wolf]

that's just being a Jedi

[trim steppe]

OR for DIAMANTINE AT HADRON

[thick wolf]

which, since 40k has legally distinct lightsabers

[frank basin]

I am the storm that is appoarching. Provoking

[serene sage]

Wait do we have light saber equivalence in 40k?

Or is that just Power Sword

[frank basin]

No? But powersword is far close

[trim steppe]

I'm late to the party but I have been running Rashad and Zarona and boooooooy is it slick

[thick wolf]

I think the lore there's legally distinct lightsabers but I don't know if any WH40K media that isn't like describing it purely on text showcases it

[frank basin]

Plasma sword

[trim steppe]

It feels a bit wrong not to be super shoosty as the vet but this zealot playstyle still feels fantastic

[frank basin]

I like Agrippina because I like be cowboy

[trim steppe]

pew pew pew

[frank basin]

I admit jusy envy the rashad over performing out against my melee in use like chainaxe and devil claw

I was underestimated and doesn’t know how bm work (I did now)

I used to like the antrax one

Got the cleave stats

[thick wolf]

what's a Rashad and Zarona again?

I keep forgetting certain weapons exist

[frank basin]

Combat axe

And revolver

[thick wolf]

ah

I would've used the combat axe more as Vet since I liked it when I first played the game

but then, shovel existed and it doesn't feel the same since then

[frank basin]

It has finesse on rashad

Just attack speed being favor

[placid portal]

Also more damage on Weakpoint /Crits

finesse do be kinda OP

[wanton dawn]

Poor dude posted a melee plasma vet build on reddit and is getting bashed for it

[frank basin]

Which platform worse. Discord or Reddit?

[late hatch]

reddit doesnt help me play games with my friends so

[wanton dawn]

Reddit by far. Because of updoot system stupid opinion actually lingers longer

[frank basin]

Which is?

[late hatch]

and have you ever seen mens rights or 2xchromosones? some of the most room temp IQ echo chamber bs ever

if you ever offer a diff opinion to the herd you get downvoted to oblivion\

[frank basin]

Yeah…

Is a bandwagon effect

[wanton dawn]

Anything really. Reddit engagement being upvote based brings the worst out of gaming the system

It is like youtube

[late hatch]

so many people just down anything they dont agree with, rather than actual bad arguments or trolls

not good for discourse

[frank basin]

I use Reddit look what people question something I search

[wanton dawn]

Discord is a chat. It is not great for keeping knowledge but at least ppl need to commit to say your opinion is crap

[crude fiber]

gonna start down arrow reacting to anything that i disagree with

[frank basin]

I even get little bombardment from negative reply in discord when I say something non-sense

Something like “is fs design make us retention”

Then I get few people correct my word

[wanton dawn]

I use reddit to get news. Sometimes i go into political sub to "check the zoo"

[crude fiber]

oh god

political reddit

[wanton dawn]

Not too often though. Worst delusion is thinking you are better than others

[frank basin]

I use Reddit just look question what I search for someone experience mostly read through comments

Say like job place

Or how to get in industry. Why do I feel x

How hard is x. Is college x.

I’m oddly person use Reddit look clarification from someone has experience

[wanton dawn]

Reddit is fine for that, mostly because some community do have good moderation and experienced users

Need to vet your subreddit though

[frank basin]

I avoid toxic community and toxic comments

I’m just guy looking advice from internet

[wanton dawn]

R/programming is a very weird place with like, 1 good article every week and then only the most basic crap everyone bashes in the comment

[frank basin]

Computer programming?

[wanton dawn]

Still one of the most popular subreddit

[wanton dawn]

Know that this sentence is EXTREMELY annoying to programmer

[frank basin]

Huh?

I have autism hard time get word all together to understand.

[wanton dawn]

Yes, computer programming

[frank basin]

Aye

[late hatch]

I take it English isnt your first language? I try not to bash people for bad language skills, esp if they seem like ESL, as damn learning English properly is hard enough, let alone learning a s2nd language

[frank basin]

I get dude from Darktide modding server call me 12 year old

Despite I talk out nonsense like no context meaning and also bad opinions or statements

Which i make miscommunication become annoying communication

[wanton dawn]

Programming is not computer specific but thats the default mindset. Not helped by the fact that pedantry is very common in programmation.

In other word, it is like being asked to state the obvious implication to ppl that deal with pedantry all day by nature of their work

[frank basin]

I’m reading this can’t warp around my head

[wanton dawn]

That would be like asking an archer if he shoot arrow with a bow

[frank basin]

My English is messy but lack of comprehension

[frank basin]

Right

[wanton dawn]

If he doesnt, chances are he would have already specified

[frank basin]

Oh…

[late hatch]

i am a person programmer

https://tenor.com/view/clockwork-orange-eyes-gif-23439382

[frank basin]

Web programmer?

[wanton dawn]

Sounds like a happiness manager

[wanton dawn]

Web is not a mean here but an end

[frank basin]

Okay?

[wanton dawn]

Would you know a paper-and-pen programmer ?

[frank basin]

Sure?

[wanton dawn]

He probably call himself mathematician

[frank basin]

I don’t get the idea of programmer

Without specifying

[wanton dawn]

Alright, i understand wym

[frank basin]

I have like the ogryn brain

[wanton dawn]

Contextually, ppl saying programmer think computer program, implyinh all form of software

[frank basin]

Yes I see that.

[trim steppe]

The last 3 weeks I have been playing ONLY Investigate and Repair missions and they are still my lowest completed missions by a lot. Quickplay just does not like those missions, it just loves fuggin Raids

[thick wolf]

how many missions does a mission type have?

because I'm getting a tiny bit suspicious with the game's value of how uncommon repair and investigation is by comparison in raid, disruption and espionage

[frank basin]

Is hard to track for me

[tall torrent]

There’s only 1 investigation and 1 repair map rn

Investigation:
Hab dreyko

Repair:
Power matrix

[thick wolf]

bruh

Fatshark forget those mission types even existed

[tall torrent]

Freight Port HL-32-2 “The Hourglass”

• Raid / Excise Vault Spireside-13
• Disruption / Refinery Delta
• Disruption / Relay Station TRS-150

Habzone HL-18-16 “The Torrent”

• Espionage / Vigil Station Oblivium
• Assassination / Magisteati Oubliette TM8-707
• Strike / Silo Cluster 18-66A

Habzone HL-19-24 “Throne Side”

• Strike / Enclavum Baross
• Espionage / Comms-Plex 154/2f
• Espionage / Archivum Sycorax

Manufactory HL-17-36 “Metalfab 36”

• Raid / Consignment Yard
• Strike / Smelter Complex HL-17-36
• Repair / Power Matrix HL-17-36

Transit Hub HL-16-11 “Chasm Terminus”

• Investigation / Hab Dreyko
• Assassination / Chasm Station HL-16-11
• Raid / Chasm Logistratum
• Raid / Ascension Riser 31

Habzone HL-70-04 “The Carnival”

• Raid / Mercantile HL-70-04
• Disruption / Warren 6-19

Every single mission in the game rn (excluding Orthus Offensive)

[wanton dawn]

Not enough raid

Ah sorry, did not see strike. It is raid in spirit

[shadow aurora]

More investigation when

[mental steeple]

When offline mode gets added.

[frank basin]

I believe is zero chances

[mental steeple]

You would be correct

Given that the developers outright lied about it

[sonic marlin]

not the best huh

stopping power is probably a big deal right

[trim hemlock]

It affects your final damage numbers against certain armour types, so yes, it can be important

[late moon]

anyone got any suggestions for a horde clearing melee wep? It's for revolver build, so i almost never use for anything other trash

power sword feels uncomfy, having to swap and charge it

[gusty bison]

Rasahd, dclaw, shovel, et

honestly even chainsword is fine at it

Knife too

[torn needle]

If you're a crit build combat blade can be good if you can learn it, otherwise for a middle ground mk7 sapper shovel and mk4 devil claw are really good

Knife is just hilariously op

[gusty bison]

Its funni is what it is

Id say its as good as the psword tbh

[torn needle]

Not in terms of pure kills per second but both can hold a whole horde back so there's not a huge functional difference

It's a dilemma I keep having where I kinda wanna play some psword but knife can do everything it can and also be super fast

[gusty bison]

Psword does kill elites faster

Fwiw

[torn needle]

If I run psword I go for a melee build

[gusty bison]

And also just most things

I mean

Its vet

Do we ever not go for a melee build?

:P

[torn needle]

True

[gusty bison]

Vet melee is so ridiculously strong atm

It actually makes zealot jealous

[torn needle]

Vet is just so strong in general

Best aura in the game

[gusty bison]

Best ability

Consistent melee buffs

Consistent ranged buffs

High toughness regeneration, decent tou DR

Vet is just consistent

[sonic marlin]

507 looks promising

what do you think?

idk what blessings/perks go on this

[agile yew]

Vet lacks good guide like Ogryn and Psyker has, to check out optimal blessings and stuff

[raw steppe]

uncanny and flak or cara presumably

[sonic marlin]

i just made the Blade of Chaos

[dawn garnet]

how do vets feel about the corruption healing talent? i know you guys have a ton of damage talents that are better

[raw steppe]

it's good btw

[raw steppe]

and pretty stable

played for 4-5 hours

not a single crash or issue

[sonic marlin]

blessings are more important info to me, i can mostly guess the perks

[dawn garnet]

replacers are generally more stable than other mods idk how darktide handles it tho

[raw steppe]

uncanny skullcrusher or uncanny thrust probably

i'm talking about helldivers2

not darktide

smudgels was saying it's crashy

and i'm saying i played it for like 5 hours with no issue

[sonic marlin]

so this isn't used for hordes but only to deal with big boys

[raw steppe]

well yeah that's why you're using a shovel no?

[sonic marlin]

I just got it, I'm asking

never used a shovel before

how do you deal with hordes if this isn't used for them

[raw steppe]

wdym lol

you can still melee hordes

[sonic marlin]

yeah but if ur gonna put blessings on it like Thrust then its gonna be worse at clearing hordes

less effective

[trim hemlock]

If I may make a suggestion

Take the weapon to the Psykhanium

See how it feels

[raw steppe]

if you can't handle hordes without a fully decked hordeclear weapon

maybe you should stick to those then

[sonic marlin]

hey but it does horizontal heavies

so if I start hitting a staggered enemy i get +40% dmg?

[torn needle]

Yeah

Decimator is the other best one

Thrust is kinda bait but it's good for bosses

Uncanny is 100% bait

[sonic marlin]

idk this shit doesn't seem that good

[torn needle]

It two taps crushers

And heavy spam with decimator is good at horde clear

[sonic marlin]

so skullcrusher+decimator and cara+flak?

[torn needle]

Limb to decimator and groaner to flak

Or if you're crit you can do crit chance

[torn needle]

Don't need cara to two tap

Two flip heavies to crusher head and it kills

[raw steppe]

lol telling someone to go crit shovel

[torn needle]

If they're crit already for their ranged weapon it's not a bad pick

[raw steppe]

it kinda is cuz shovel crit multi is like 1.3x

[torn needle]

Better than 80% of the other perks, the only choices are like flak, crit, or weakspot damage

[sonic marlin]

mm yeah it does 2tap them

cool

[torn needle]

[sonic marlin]

so what do you do when theres 10 of them

[torn needle]

Take your time

What's that supposed to mean

[torn needle]

It two taps without cara

[sonic marlin]

how do heavy attacks work, like if I charge for half a second it still counts as if I was charging for 3 right?

[torn needle]

Without thrust yes

[sonic marlin]

wish i could oneshot them

[torn needle]

It can't really do that

Not many weapons can at all

[sonic marlin]

some can?

don't mention zealot thammer

[torn needle]

Ps6 push attack crit

Probably some others too

But without temp buffs you can't really one shot them, just be happy you can two shot and it staggers

Most weapons can't even do that

[sonic marlin]

oh wait this is the infinite stagger shovel rightr

[torn needle]

The ideal mk7 is probably flak/weakspot with decim/skullcrush

Weakspot makes it one shot mutants on flip heavy and one shot all other specials on flip light

Headshot obv

[sonic marlin]

well for crushers its still 2 flip heavies

[torn needle]

That's really good, yes

It's not a drawback, that's insane

It's fast and low risk

[sonic marlin]

bonk

looks like the mod isn't so perfect

[sonic marlin]

bruh

[junior needle]

Crit chance on melee
weakspot perk

[sonic marlin]

if only it oneshot all on flip lights

[gusty bison]

Mostly cos with vet like... anything goes

So its a lotta work putting everything in

Also cos Vet breakpoints are HEAVILY build dependent due to the options we have

[gusty bison]

It competes with grenade regen

Which is...

A tough sell

[sonic marlin]

we have a corruption healing talent?

[gusty bison]

Yea

the one for medikit

[sonic marlin]

oh

[gusty bison]

Like its not bad. Its just... right next to grenade regen

[dawn garnet]

I really despise it because it shreds the healing kit in grim missions

i put in a healing pack and it keeps running and fighting the corruption and gets used up in 2 minutes

[sonic marlin]

do packs expire after they heal a certain amount of hp?

[dawn garnet]

I think its time OR max hp

[gusty bison]

5 mins or X hp

but the medikit blessing also increases the amount healed by double

[dawn garnet]

must have been the zealot then

i should go and yell at them then

[gusty bison]

Ogryns do eat up a lot of medkit resources

a normal medikit usually isnt enough if you have 2 ogryns

If you have a matyr zealot they might also have been deliberately taking damage

[dawn garnet]

at least they use it you know? the corruption healing and then unhealing is really annoying with grimoires

[gusty bison]

That is fair

Although it does reset the grimoire corruption to the starting baseline which is nice

[sonic marlin]

man why do shovels unflip after one hit

[gusty bison]

Balnace

[sonic marlin]

it should just be like on or off button

[gusty bison]

would be OP otherwise

[dawn garnet]

so corruption resistance works after its healed?

but grimoires resistance works before its added

[gusty bison]

Grimoires apply both an X baseline corruption, and a Y corruption over time

the medikit talent basically lets you reset everyone's corruption over time to 0 at the cost of the medkit

Assuming it hasnt ticked over to next wound

[dawn garnet]

ye that ive noticed

the whole system is reallly confusing

[gusty bison]

Especially in double grimoire runs, that corruption can add up quick for some vet builds

cos base HP is 150

[dawn garnet]

grimoires feel like an after thought imo

they really dont feel like theyre worth it esp if you play at t5

[sonic marlin]

but i can still turn it fast, its just kind of annoying

[dawn garnet]

lmaooo

[amber cliff]

I don't mind grims staying as dangerous as they are. If the reward becomes bonkers worth it

[sonic marlin]

i lost the other blade

[dawn garnet]

yeah maybe if they gave a random curio or extra plasteel or something

[sonic marlin]

i found out im really shit at hitting weakspots

[amber cliff]

The things people do to thisgames UI

its a fucking travesty

be ashamed

[sonic marlin]

cope

[torn needle]

Ragers aren't specials

[sonic marlin]

do i just spam horizontal heavies for hordes?

[torn needle]

Weakspot hits all relevant breakpoints and helps with trash and bosses, so what's the problem

[torn needle]

Yeah

[sonic marlin]

spawned 20 demonhosts instead of commons

booooyah

[torn needle]

They just want friends

[sonic marlin]

fps fucking dying

[junior needle]

Very, very low value perk due to how weakspot damage is calculated. So I'm immensely surprised it has any kind of optimal use case.

[umbral scaffold]

clipping through my backpack, literally unplayable

[torn needle]

It's global damage, which is valuable

And yes, without weakspot you leave mutants with 18 health after flip heavy and can't one shot flamers with flip lights

And don't you dare say run maniac instead

[junior needle]

Not nearly as much with these shitty damage calcs that make it only apply to the bonus damage and not the whole hit

[torn needle]

But it's still global damage that works on every enemy

It's better than like 70% of perks

[junior needle]

Most perks are not good but, that one is typically one of them too

Being better than stamina and groaner damage is a low bar

[torn needle]

It does what it says on the tin, a bit more damage for all enemies

It's definitely not bad

[junior needle]

It's pretty terrible in most cases

[torn needle]

If it hits bps then mathematically it's fine

[junior needle]

Due to the very low amount of value gained

[torn needle]

I'd argue maniac is generally just as bad

[junior needle]

Yeah if, but it overwhelmingly doesn't

Maniac is one of the meta perks on ranged weapons though?

[torn needle]

For melee specifically

Maniac is fine on ranged

[junior needle]

Well yeah, the only maniac you hit with regularity in melee is the naked rager and those are inadvisable to fight because undodgeable attacks if they connect

[torn needle]

I'm talking specifically melee for all of this because shovel

[junior needle]

[torn needle]

Taking weakspot is a bonus instead of maniac because it still hits all the bps while giving you bonus damage against everything else

Splat the specials

[junior needle]

On that shovel specifically

[torn needle]

Yeah that's what the discussion was about before

Every weapon likes different perks

I'd argue unarmored damage is pretty weak on melee but it's s tier on rashad

Every perk has a use

[junior needle]

Unarmored is generally a preferable second perk if you want better clear on most things

Melee things

[sonic marlin]

so decimator and flak instead of groaner dmg?

[torn needle]

Is that the shovel? Dear God

What did you do to my boy

[torn needle]

Yeah that's right

[sonic marlin]

what yall think about this, stopping power too low?

[torn needle]

Do you have anything better?

If not then it's perfectly fine

It'll shoot heretics just fine

[sonic marlin]

been trying to get a good agri iag but it hasn't happened so far

[torn needle]

Then just use that one, it's good

Keep the blessings

[sonic marlin]

I got this

[torn needle]

What the hell is that

[sonic marlin]

its a Hammerhead Mk LXIX Deathwatch rifle

[torn needle]

What gun is it really?

Columnus?

[sonic marlin]

it evolved from this

[torn needle]

Horrifying

Good gun though

I'd say it's better but if you want to use the agri go for that

[sonic marlin]

and this is my Boltgun

[torn needle]

It's a video game so have fun

[sonic marlin]

guess ill wait for a better one

I also want a different melee and it looks like a shovel isn't it for me

[torn needle]

That bastard… has to be alive still.

[sonic marlin]

mk6

not sure what can be better

[torn needle]

Maniac damage

[sonic marlin]

what do u suggest, unarmored?

[torn needle]

Carapace can two shot crushers

[sonic marlin]

[torn needle]

I think you need brutal momentum though

[sonic marlin]

i'm tired of the combo, special attack > hit 3 times > special attack > hit 3 times

i need a change

[torn needle]

Elite damage is probably better for general stuff if you don't wanna go carapace or unyield for bosses

Yeah I get tired of it too

I'm a knife enjoyer now

[sonic marlin]

whats that like

[torn needle]

It's extremely op

Run around faster than a crackhead and still one shot specials on heavy plus dumb dodge distance

And it still controls hordes fine

[sonic marlin]

let me see it

[torn needle]

My knife?

It's riposte/fleshtearer with crit chance

Last perk can kinda be anything, I got stuck with crit damage which is fine

[sonic marlin]

idk which knife it even is

[torn needle]

The first one

[sonic marlin]

mk3?

[torn needle]

You run it with the crit small node and reciprocity

I dunno the name of it, the one that stabs down with heavies, not the new one

[sonic marlin]

i got this one from buying anything thats 355+

and this

[torn needle]

Mk3 is the right one

That's pretty good tbh, just make it gold and swap blessings to riposte and fleshtearer

Crit chance is perfect

[dusty sluice]

Perks don’t matter to much for knife tbh

[torn needle]

Exactly

[dusty sluice]

Crit chance is one of the few that kinda makes a difference

[torn needle]

The only one you kinda want is crit chance and that's it

[dusty sluice]

I also run elites

[torn needle]

Anything else that gives damage is good enough

[sonic marlin]

i fucking hate how crafting works

i have like 0 blessings

[torn needle]

[sonic marlin]

oh theres another

man

[torn needle]

Mercy killer is nice for heavy attack based knives

[sonic marlin]

i love bricks

[dusty sluice]

Executor + uncanny is nice

Thats a very nice knife

[torn needle]

Executor is kinda hard to use

[sonic marlin]

the amount of times i missed a weakspot hit is probably higher than when i did hit them

[graceful plover]

thas a goo'ol shamk roight dere

[torn needle]

If you miss once you lose all the stacks

[dusty sluice]

I’d put ft to uncanny and sprint efc to crit chance, flak, mnc, ua, cara, or unyielding

[sonic marlin]

yeah thats fucking great

[torn needle]

This is if you want your knife to be a heavy killer weapon

[dusty sluice]

Each help with dmg to those targets tbh

[torn needle]

If you want a horde clear based knife and use your ranged for heavy killing you generally go flesh tearer with riposte and crit chance

Imo knife does enough damage to armor and elites already that I never need to boost it

[dusty sluice]

Executor does help with trash clear

Fair

[torn needle]

It does but if you even graze anything other than a weakspot you lose your bonus

Which can be tough if the horde is mixed

[dusty sluice]

True

You can get it back pretty easily tbh

[torn needle]

Yeah you can

It's just a preference thing

Generally when I play knife I go plasma or columnus to do the heavy lifting and use the knife for horde clear and movement

That's why I pick what I do

[sonic marlin]

i can't even fucking test this in simulacurum

[trim hemlock]

Of course you can, but you will need a certain mod for that

[sonic marlin]

didn't people use the knife heavies to move around or something?

[sonic marlin]

which

[trim hemlock]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/25

[sonic marlin]

yeah i got it and i figured out how to use it

[torn needle]

You have to turn off invisibility and they will attack you

[sonic marlin]

mmm the dodge is quite nice

is riposte/flesh eater the usual setup? with crit perk and elite dmg?

[torn needle]

Crit perk and uhhh

[sonic marlin]

tearer

[torn needle]

Crit damage is good too

[sonic marlin]

idk if im feeling it

[torn needle]

That's the general setup for not going for elite kill speed

The push attack is very stronk

Are you running reciprocity and the extra crit chance on the right side of the tree?

Those are needed

[trim hemlock]

I wouldn’t pick any Crit-related perks if I could help it - I’d go Flak/Unyielding or Flak/Carapace, or Carapace/Unyielding

Flesh Tearer + Riposte is solid

[torn needle]

Crit perk is only really amazing with the horde setup

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo played with veteran

Told orders

[torn needle]

If you're going for elite damage I'd go for cara and stuff yeah

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo followed order

[torn needle]

With uncanny and all that

[torn needle]

Good job big man

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo like little one

You little ones are tiny and weak. But when Ogryn show exemple. Little ones strong like Ogryn

Ulgo like little ones!

[sonic marlin]

i'm guessing theres other things than rashad that can oneshot commons

?

[torn needle]

Power sword, maybe DC mk4

[sonic marlin]

oh right, were back to power swords

[sonic marlin]

something like this huh

[torn needle]

I'm not familiar with dc

I know people say it's good is all

Haven't tried it for myself

[sonic marlin]

this mod needs 'spawn x10' or 'spawn common horde'

[trim hemlock]

Feed that back to the mod creator

[sonic marlin]

yeah i feel like rashad is the solution to all my problems

everyone says brutal momentum+headtaker right? Why not bm+decimator?

[trim hemlock]

Decimator drops on a miss

AND it only stacks once per swing

[sonic marlin]

oh

[trim hemlock]

Headtaker stacks up to 5 if you manage to hit 5 things in one swing

And dropping it is only an option if you genuinely don’t fight for a couple of seconds

So Decimator requires you to commit to 10 swings, without missing

This is maybe doable when you’re fighting a boss

[sonic marlin]

headtaker+bm is standard for all axes right?

[trim hemlock]

But in any other combat situation it’s extremely easy to whiff it

[trim hemlock]

It’s probably the most consistent, yes

[sonic marlin]

just found the solution just bind it to scroll wheel kek

[trim hemlock]

Ah, the “super fast clicking” done smartly

[sonic marlin]

whats the setup for chainswords

hmm been testing a lot of stuff with this mod but it seems like stuff that shreds hordes nicely is pretty useless incase u wanna melee a crusher or something

smh another one at Brunts, also low stopping power

wish it was the dumpstat somehow

[vital adder]

vet chat what's the best shovel

[dire olive]

At what

[vital adder]

shoveling

[dire olive]

Generally I personally think the blue one (mkIII?)

But the OG is great at horde clear

[vital adder]

thanks oomfie 🙏

[frank ether]

depends on what you want to do with them

you can do rampage + cleave blessing

and flakiac

[thick rose]

like a shark

[sonic marlin]

i want something effective for hordes but also good at meleeing a crusher or two from time to time

[frank ether]

yes

combat axe

[sonic marlin]

which one

[frank ether]

yes

[sonic marlin]

[frank ether]

ok so copypasta answer you'll be given is

''rashad best''

but rashad needs a godroll

to reach its full potential

or you have to invest more into melee than you otherwise would

[spice wadi]

any caxe that isnt the achlys

[frank ether]

achy is a weird one

not that its weak it just has a weird attack pattern

[spice wadi]

my caxe is an antax at the mo because the game has not given me a rashad that isnt ass

[frank ether]

like you either like it or you don't

kind of thing

[sonic marlin]

i have a rashad

is this good enough?

[spice wadi]

the antax works within a decent range of the rashad, if you have a rashad just use that

that's good

yes

[frank ether]

thats already good

[sonic marlin]

im coping thats not mine

[spice wadi]

the diff between the rashad and the others is that the rashad has finesse

[frank ether]

antax has another dump stat

so its easier to build

[sonic marlin]

i got shit ton of axes from buying shit above 360 from brunt

[vital adder]

been playing around with the mk3 shovel and it feels so awesome to use

bonk

[sonic marlin]

smh why is my inventory doing that all the fucking time

sooo many

[vital adder]

why does your inventory look like thay

that

[frank ether]

I like the one shot build on shovel 3

[sonic marlin]

i mean this one could be used if it didn't have shit fucking perks and stuff

[vital adder]

what's that

[sonic marlin]

mod but im talking about it being blurry

[frank ether]

thrust limbsplitter

[sonic marlin]

almost

[vital adder]

you've sentenced me to leveling shovels forever

[frank ether]

I like that on a

iLas build

iLas is garbage at dealing with crusher

[sonic marlin]

so which axe is good other than rashad for what i want

and whats the full setup

[sonic marlin]

and the dumpstat?

[vital adder]

I'm running the right side of the vet tree

[spice wadi]

mobility is dump

as long as it's 50 or above it can be whatever

[sonic marlin]

i got 3

[sonic marlin]

other shit needs 75+ like rashad or what

[bitter turtle]

Folding shovel, psword, rashad

[sonic marlin]

fuck the shovels

[golden nacelle]

So... what do we think... Maybe shattering to gets hot or blaze away? and then the 10% to what...? Flak? or unyielding?

[sonic marlin]

no

this

[vital adder]

what the hells

[sonic marlin]

gets hot is a must

blaze away or gloryhunter

carapace and whatever you need to hit breakpoints

[sonic marlin]

i have a powersword rn and i'm just tired of having to use powerup every 3 hits

powercycler should make it 10 hits total before power up

smh

[golden nacelle]

Do you really get much legs out of carapace?

[sonic marlin]

pretty sure thats what you need to 3 shot crushers

[golden nacelle]

I didn't think it was that important on plasma cause of how much dmg it already does to carapace

[sonic marlin]

mfw forgot to turn on invisibility

hmm i thought i needed 3 body shots

its 3 headshots

and without it he has like 5% hp left

thats without middle tree keystone

[toxic leaf]

ranged to flak and then whatever blessing you want to replace to blaze away or gets hot

plasma is pretty breakpoint dependent, test some damage rolls out in the training arena, i think flak with those numbers may get you to one shot body shot thresholds on gunners (no crits)

carapace is definitely useless on plasma, you knock down crushers already (the big knockdown) on dome shots, if you keep shattering impact, your team will just nuke them as well

[bitter turtle]

oh no

a disagreement

[sharp ember]

carapace is kinda like a mono-enemy perk like unarmored

[bitter turtle]

so

i tested

that exact plasma

that he posted

[sharp ember]

still shaves off a hit tho

[bitter turtle]

carapace -> 3 shot crusher bp
3 shot mauler headshot bp

flak -> 2 shot bodyshot flak rager bp
3 shot mauler bodyshot bp
1 shot bodyshot flak gunner at 14m~

nothing else changes

[toxic leaf]

what about gunners to the body

[bitter turtle]

if that did anything

i would have said it

[toxic leaf]

i see

[sharp ember]

hence why i’m not really a fan of flak plasma

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/b1071c53dac4430038bc385b9e78f141.png

every non conditional dmg boost on the tree

including longshot buti wasnt 30m away

so maybe if you're 30m away it does something

lul

[toxic leaf]

i see

ive always thought that helped mine, which is higher in damage/stopping, but now im about to stest to make sure i dont have a wasted perk

2 shot armored rager is pretty nice. even if you didnt take flak, what would you take? unyielding?

you already 2 shot reapers in the dome

[sharp ember]

i like unyielding for bulwarks and speedkilling monsters if i don’t have a boss murdering melee

[bitter turtle]

lol

this is funny

so

with his gun specifically

its worh taking

10% rending on the tree

the crusher 3 shot needs 2 headshots with +25% carapace

the 10% rending makes it 1 headshot and 2 body shots

a lot easier

that's funni

otherwise you're like 100 dmg off

[sharp ember]

we love roll-specific breakpoints

[toxic leaf]

ok with 76/80 dmg/stopping, i 1 shot scab gunners at 14m to the body

using flak

[toxic leaf]

i thought plasma gun was 100% rending on armor?

[bitter turtle]

what's your tree look like

idk what plasma's armor values are (except that they're high) but even past 100% rending still has an effect

plasma is smelly

so i dont care about it

[sharp ember]

its carapace modifier is like slightly under 100% if i recall

[toxic leaf]

oh wait im marking them

thats just to get my range lol

let me take off the mark keystone h

[sharp ember]

like 90% damage

[toxic leaf]

ok it still 1 taps

[sharp ember]

so 10% rending would close that gap

and yeah any further rending value converts into 1/4% bonus damage

[slow spade]

Everything not carapace is over 100% armor pen

Iirc carapace is something like 80%?

[toxic leaf]

this is the tree i have @bitter turtle

obviously i took the mark keystones off

[bitter turtle]

yeah

its because of longshot

stops working at 12m~

[toxic leaf]

yea i do 1181 at 10m

dreg gunners are not 1 shot at 14m

furthermore, half the time im hitting the unarmoured spot on them anyway

[slow spade]

gunners are a bitch if you don't aim for head anyways

Fucking arms

[toxic leaf]

yea

the scab is consitently hitting flak when i aim center mass

dreg is like 75/25 unarmored/flak

[slow spade]

I usually go for flak on plasma by sheer virtue of so many gunners and shotgunners

[bitter turtle]

doesnt change anything for shotgunners

[toxic leaf]

all shotgunners are 1 shot to the body

[bitter turtle]

even scab shotgunner body is unarmored

[toxic leaf]

but they have much less hg

[bitter turtle]

i think?

[slow spade]

Its not

[toxic leaf]

both shotgunners are flak

[slow spade]

My lasgun build absolutely says flak lol

[bitter turtle]

i meant

on the plasma

[faint beacon]

It's so depressing seeing like 10+ Shotgunners round a corner and all Rack a shell into their gun at once

[bitter turtle]

it keeps hitting an unarmored part somehow

[toxic leaf]

dreg has unarmored, you are correct

[bitter turtle]

if u bodyshot

[toxic leaf]

im hitting teh flak part mostly though

[bitter turtle]

o wait nvm

im fuckin dumb

[toxic leaf]

im aiming center mass and hitting flak almost every time

[slow spade]

Is it an arm or something?

[bitter turtle]

guess i was hallucinating

maybe

i have no idea

i tried it again and now it says flak

yeah

[toxic leaf]

yea its the arm

[bitter turtle]

it was the arm

[slow spade]

Funny times with limb based armor

[toxic leaf]

so with flak, 1 shot to all shotgunners and scab gunner

dreg gunner lives

to the body

[bitter turtle]

never shoot scab shotgunners from a side angle

[toxic leaf]

at 76/80

[slow spade]

Don't worry, they'll make sure its never a side shot UwU

[spice wadi]

you cannot pierce the wanking arm

[toxic leaf]

with longshot at 14m~

[sharp ember]

i thought plasma defaulted to the chest armor type if you hit any limb that wasn’t head

[bitter turtle]

nope

[toxic leaf]

im pinging unarmored on dreg almost every time, so probably not

[bitter turtle]

at least in psyk

[slow spade]

Iirc the only enemies I can't reliably 1-shot without ping or buffs with this gun are Dreg gunners ( ARMS) and Flamers (both)

But I was running talents in my tests

[toxic leaf]

yea im not getting flamers or dreg gunners

[slow spade]

Dreg gunner is 1-shot if I don't hit arms

[sharp ember]

then i guess it just doesn’t take the 50% limb damage reduction

[slow spade]

It does for me

Dreg gunners are 1-shot but they hit arm so often

[toxic leaf]

i took off maniac to see if i would still 1 shot bombers

[sharp ember]

would that be because you would deal more flak damage than unarmored damage with your setup

[faint beacon]

I mean if you're aiming center mass at Bombers with that Flak I wouldn't see why it wouldn't 1-Shot Bombers at least

[sharp ember]

so if the arm was flak they would’ve died

[toxic leaf]

you 1 shot dregs to the body on flak shot?

oh you mean dome shot

[dusty sluice]

Use loudout config mod so you don’t waste plasteel lol

[toxic leaf]

what does that do

[slow spade]

Could be, I haven't checked the plasma gun's base damage vs unarmored + I can't take flak off my plasma (aka I didn't test without it)

[sharp ember]

they took the 50% limb damage penalty off plasma so a random dreg shooter can’t tank a plasma shot because you hit the arm

[slow spade]

No, body shot

[bitter turtle]

its 100% because you're hitting the wrong part of the body and losing the perk

for flakless

it does 800 to both shotgunner body parts for me

[slow spade]

Pain

[dusty sluice]

Allows you to change anything about your weapons in solo play games or the meatgrinder

[bitter turtle]

unarmoerd and flak

[toxic leaf]

i just noticed im not one shotting dregs to the dome either

dreg gunners

[bitter turtle]

which means

unarmored stonks

[slow spade]

Got it, I wish I could swap out flak to mess with it

Hadron pls

[toxic leaf]

unarmored stonks!

im like 50 damage short on headshot

[slow spade]

Oof

[toxic leaf]

wtb 80/80

[slow spade]

Should be fine if you use ping keystone at least

[sharp ember]

drag around a psyker with elite damage aura

[toxic leaf]

yea

[dusty sluice]

Here https://discord.com/channels/1048312349867646996/1170359714027155608

[toxic leaf]

also those gorram gunners are cowards in cover so im usually body shotting them behind light cover

anyways, what does maniac do for me on this gun

[faint beacon]

Ragers and Mutants to name some

[toxic leaf]

oh right naked ragers

[faint beacon]

Tox Flamers are classified as maniacs?

I think?

[toxic leaf]

interesting

[faint beacon]

Actually no I think both Flamers are Maniac types

so you'd be doing increase against Flamers, Ragers and Mutants

[umbral granite]

Game gave me this as a mission reward. I have no idea if this is good or not, but it's got a base stats of 380 and a tier 4 blessing.

[slow spade]

Dreg ragers specifically

[faint beacon]

Stats are overall good, its probably not like a 380 roll but I'd say if you manage to get a PC4 Blessing change the perks and you have yourself a good PS3

[slow spade]

Scab ragers are all flak everywhere iirc

[faint beacon]

Not PS6 sadly but still

really good

[slow spade]

You take what Hadron gives you 😔

[faint beacon]

Don't get me wrong that thing will be really damn good for Horde Clearing though

[toxic leaf]

you upgrade it and fish for pc4 if you dont have it

if you do, you sell this sword because its 0/3

[dusty sluice]

550 it

Do it

[slow spade]

Apparently Sunder is good now?

[faint beacon]

That's if the Omnissiah Doesn't bless them with a PC4

[dusty sluice]

Sunder is one of the good blessings

[slow spade]

Idk for sure, I'm not going to make ANOTHER fucking psword

[faint beacon]

Look I had 0 clue Sunder was a really wanted Blessing

[slow spade]

Same tbh

[toxic leaf]

how much cleave does it increase, wtb good descriptions lol

[slow spade]

I thought it was a meme for cleave

[toxic leaf]

yea haha

[faint beacon]

I have Sunder just casually unlocked cause I looked at it, went "cool", surrendered it and moved on

lmao

[slow spade]

Apparently it lets you stagger bulwarks now?

[toxic leaf]

wtf

[sharp ember]

idk about that

[slow spade]

Again never tested

[umbral granite]

Unfortunately, i am short on plasteel... AGAIN!

[dusty sluice]

#veteran-class message

[toxic leaf]

well it still competes against brutal momentum

[slow spade]

Just hearsay from the discord

[sharp ember]

sunder has nothing to do with stagger value to open bulwarks

[slow spade]

Ah

[sharp ember]

its mostly for cleaving cleanly through mixed elite packs

[slow spade]

You get used to it

[toxic leaf]

hmm

[sharp ember]

so you can stagger them in place

[slow spade]

Funny rager packs

[dusty sluice]

Decreased enemy hit mas from what I’ve heard and seen

[slow spade]

Considering how high psword's cleave is that would be pretty good

[toxic leaf]

but brutal momentum ignores the hit mass, so whats the difference?

or am i wrong on that too

[slow spade]

ONLY on weakspot hits

[toxic leaf]

right

[sharp ember]

only if its a lethal headshot

[toxic leaf]

oh it has to be lethal?

[sharp ember]

yeah

[toxic leaf]

jesus

[dusty sluice]

You don’t have to worry about getting headshot kills

[faint beacon]

Brutal Momentum = Condition yourself to swing at head level basically

[toxic leaf]

but when the sword is powered, does it ignore hit mass again

[sharp ember]

it has better cleave but doesn’t ignore

[toxic leaf]

i see

interesting

[slow spade]

Na that was removed a long time ago

[umbral granite]

Melk is trying to sell me a shotgun with garbage stopping power... Not worth.

[forest scaffold]

power sword has 11.7 cleave when powered on

[slow spade]

Lol rip

[forest scaffold]

a groaner has 1.5 hitmass for example

bruisers are uh

2.5?

[toxic leaf]

the cleave goes to 11

[forest scaffold]

3?

[junior needle]

3.5

[forest scaffold]

Thanks

[slow spade]

I miss when psword had infinite cleave and 3 charged attacks as base 😔

[toxic leaf]

lol

so sunder does sound good

[forest scaffold]

But yeah, while powersword has giga cleave

[sharp ember]

and there was a way to game and extend your powered swings

[forest scaffold]

it gets bogged down by bruisers

[slow spade]

Lol true

[dusty sluice]

Sunder makes the enemies have forth the amount of the hit mad they normally have

[forest scaffold]

brutal momentum is basically another 3.5x4 cleave on top of the 11.7

[sharp ember]

so you could have like up to 11 powered swings

[forest scaffold]

for the sake of fighting bruisers

[toxic leaf]

and brutal momentum adds power to weakspot shots

[forest scaffold]

that's irrelevant

[slow spade]

The good old days...

[toxic leaf]

it is?

[forest scaffold]

its a totally meaningless buff due to how weakspot calculations work

[toxic leaf]

oh its that

[forest scaffold]

all brutal momentum is for is the ignores cleave aspect

tier 1 or tier 4 is irrelevant

as long as you have BM

[sharp ember]

if you want that, i’m gonna make you give up your gun and attach a power cable to your handle

[slow spade]

It doesn't hurt to have a lvl 4 brutal momentum but yeah not important

[bitter turtle]

the weakspot dmg part is a very miniscule dmg buff yeah

only boosts the extra dmg you get from hitting a weakspot

[dusty sluice]

With caxes it can help with bps

[toxic leaf]

right i forgot this game only gives bonus to the actual bonus damage

[umbral granite]

I just realized that THIS is still my highest rating meele weapon on veteran since the twins mission was first introduced.

[bitter turtle]

not the base dmg

[slow spade]

Don't tempt me UwU I was a melee Vet before plasma was good

[forest scaffold]

this makes me sad

no rampage

no savage sweep

[dusty sluice]

Pretty bricked imo

[slow spade]

I agree but psword's weakspot damage was never the issue UwU

[umbral granite]

I made it when i was still pretty new to the game, and didnt know how to propperly make weapons.

[forest scaffold]

classic fatshark

making a system that abuses new players

why are there locks

[umbral granite]

Still absolutely demolishes though...

[slow spade]

"Oops all Bulwarks"

[umbral granite]

Counter point:

What bulwarks?

[ruby rose]

I thought shattering was kind of pointless on the plasma

It already treats carapace like wet tissue paper

[slow spade]

It is

[umbral granite]

It's a personal preference

[slow spade]

It only helps teammates but plasma already dumpsters everything in 1-2 shots

[slow spade]

Its measurably shit

Not really preference at that point

[umbral granite]

It's the plasma gun. I could go into an auric damnation with a grey tier plasma and still have a solid chance of winning.

[slow spade]

Doesn't change the fact its shit

[ruby rose]

Blaze away and gets hot is free bread

[slow spade]

Indeed

[pearl granite]

could this be the most not-vet outfit ever?

[sharp ember]

that’s a psyker

[slow spade]

I want my Maccabian :c

[sharp ember]

a zealot? zealker?

[pearl granite]

the pant is just a recolor from a recent zealot outfit

[toxic leaf]

shattering only really helps your team and only against crushers, who arent instantly vaporized

[slow spade]

They're just vaporized in the 2nd shot UwU

[ruby rose]

I want Auxilia even though that will never happen 😔

[toxic leaf]

we just tested and it takes 3!

[ruby rose]

2 off a crit

[slow spade]

Give then the little tap on the shoulder and they fall over after the 2nd shot

[toxic leaf]

lol

[slow spade]

I wonder how stupid a crit build plasma would be

[toxic leaf]

i would make sure both perks are poggers before changing any blessings on plasma gun, its one of the rare weapons that 2/4 is perfectly fine and you're missing almost nothing

[slow spade]

If only Deadshot worked

[toxic leaf]

its very accessible, which is nice

[slow spade]

Indeed

Iirc the only issue plasma has is if you don't have Survivalist

[toxic leaf]

insert any gun and it has issues withotu survivalist

fair and balanced aura

[sonic marlin]

so antax is the best axe after rashad or nah

[slow spade]

Lasgun + Shocktrooper moment

[toxic leaf]

lol

[slow spade]

I'm actually not sure

Chainaxes did get a notable buff

[toxic leaf]

i thought tac axes were bad

[slow spade]

But I never hear about them

[ruby rose]

The new chainaxe is actually good

[slow spade]

Oh yeah the tac axe suck

Probably one of the weakest vet melee options atm

[sonic marlin]

i want something good for horde clear that can kill the occasional crusher or two

[ruby rose]

Get a decent roll with headtaker/slaughter and thrust and you can pretty much deal with anything in melee

[slow spade]

Isn't that a power sword?

[sonic marlin]

i was about to say not power swords

i have them, i hate the gimmick

[slow spade]

:p

[sonic marlin]

maybe if they make power cycler add 10 hits

[ruby rose]

Mk.3 is the lawnmower but the Mk.6 has the crusher deleter combo

[slow spade]

Sadly there's not many melee weapons that can reliably deal with carapace

[slow spade]

Mk3 has it too, its just weaker

[ruby rose]

But p sword being good is entirely dependent on the level of power cycler you have

[slow spade]

Indeed

I miss infinite cleave, 3 charged attack psword

[sonic marlin]

still easier to make than rashad

[slow spade]

The funny moment when a grey powersword on release is stronger than a fully min max'd psword today

[toxic leaf]

what, ps6 is a lawn mower

charge + 3 light horizontal swipes = grass cut

[ruby rose]

True

[slow spade]

Sadly Fatshark normalized energized damage

So a heavy and light do the same damage

[toxic leaf]

fs needs to normalize their update schedule

[slow spade]

Rip mk3

[toxic leaf]

are they still on vacation

[ruby rose]

I just like the big boy heavy cleaves of the mk.3 plus it looks like the space marine p sword

[slow spade]

Would anything change if they weren't?

[sonic marlin]

huh

[slow spade]

Psword has been HEAVILY nerfed since release

[toxic leaf]

launch power sword had pc4 built in by default and more energy damage

[slow spade]

And infinite cleave

[toxic leaf]

and infinite cleave

[slow spade]

Power cycler used to give 7 attacks 😔

[toxic leaf]

lol

this is fine guys

[slow spade]

"Somehow" it got nerfed UwU

[ruby rose]

And when the mg12 was really just a lascannon cosplaying as a lasgun

[slow spade]

Actually mk12 was just never changed

Release mk12 is roughly the same as today's mk12

Mk12 and purg are the only weapons to get minor changes despite being in since release

[serene sage]

those are probably the baseline people try to balance the game around

[sharp ember]

enemies did get a little beefier

[tiny summit]

Well they failed

[sharp ember]

so mg12 would be feeling that

[tiny summit]

MG12 feels like it belongs in a completely different pace of game design

[serene sage]

really?

[tiny summit]

It's slow fire rate for not enough return vs it's competition in enemy density this numerous, really makes it looks like it belongs in a slower paced game

[sharp ember]

and that’s why dakka iz the best

[tiny summit]

Either slower paced game or having combat encounter design not rely on throwing the entire kitchen sink and entire family trees of enemies at you

[sonic marlin]

just realized i can oneshot Bulwarks if I ping them

[slow spade]

For the longest time, it was considered the meta weapon

[ruby rose]

That and the desync robbing me of headshots when im using it really irks me trying to use the 12

[slow spade]

It wasn't until Patch 13 that Kantreal MK12 was dethroned as one of the better weapons :c

Shredder pistol and bolter on suicide watch though

[ruby rose]

Hasn't the bolter been on life support for a while now?

[slow spade]

Bolter used to have a niche in maelstroms as the "fuck ogryns and bosses" gun

Also back then Exec stance was on everyone

And was stronger

[sharp ember]

it’s comfortably average imo

survivalist keeps it chugging along

[serene sage]

it's balanced, if not slightly stronger than balanced imo

[sharp ember]

but it does get hungry if you full auto during sticky situations

[serene sage]

the problem is people look at Bolter and ALWAYS compare it to OP weap;ons like Plasma, Rev and Col

look at Bolter and compare it to the Shotties, K12, Helbore and suddenly it seems downright reasonable

[sharp ember]

bolter is nice and versatile like that

for the slow handling

[agile forge]

if you used to like bolter on zealot

I guess it's still good on that context

it's just not old bolter vet good now

although idk

I haven't touched it since the patch

Zarona is addictive

because I love to reload during a battle

[serene sage]

I still top frag with it in like 95% of pug games

so it's still fun

[sharp ember]

it’s addicted to Surgical blessing like zarona is now

[serene sage]

can't beat a good plasma/rev/col user though

some good helbore can also edge the bolt out on damage, if only barely

[sharp ember]

a crit headshot is double of baseline damage

[agile forge]

Gorg/Achlys stubbers and Kickback too, if you wanna include the big guys in this

[serene sage]

fair enough

then again I do think even plasma would have a tough time vs kickback

depending on how good the operative is