unless poison knife was supposed to be another melee dot
#veteran-class
bitter turtle
sharp ember
knife coated in dish soap
low yacht
Not really
low yacht
Bleed works just fine.
Against bulwarks bleed makes them hurt and mutants.
Against most bosses bleed is actually good.
serene bough
i mostly use bleed on a knife for easier horde clearing
serene bough
since repricocity + riposte will give you so much crit chance
low yacht
I use bleed on a sword so it just makes it slash.
bitter turtle
obv shredder frag is op as fug
low yacht
I mean yes and no
serene bough
people say its a meme but i dont really thing maxing out weakspot damage on a knife on vet makes much sense
zealot is a different story bc of how many melee/backstab buffs they get
bitter turtle
people say its a meme but i dont really thing maxing out weakspot damage on a kn...
why not?
its a weakspot weapon in the first place
sharp ember
we have shredder frag, but what about leonardo, donatello, raphael, and michaelangelo frags?
bitter turtle
omg how can you forget master splinter frag
serene bough
bc it can already clear out maniac threats in 1 clean backstab
low yacht
Splinter Nades
serene bough
maybe 2 if you lack maniac damage
bitter turtle
bc it can already clear out maniac threats in 1 clean backstab
i mean, why not build it to 2/3 shot crushers and boss dps?
the bleed doesnt really make it good at anything is the problem
serene bough
because plasma and kraks exist, i find its better to just use a range weapon
bitter turtle
well i dont know if i'd run knife + plasma
in the first place
lol
what are you gonna do, shoot at the hordes?
low yacht
Yes
serene bough
well knife bleed helps to clear hordes
bitter turtle
i mean at that point just use a rashad
dusty sluice
well knife bleed helps to clear hordes
riposte flesh-tearer is actually very good at horde clear
low yacht
As it has that ability
bitter turtle
You shoot through the hordes to kill other enemies.
no, im saying how do you deal with trash hordes then - knife is the slowest weapon at hordeclear, plasma doesnt want to shoot willy nilly bc slow reload
serene bough
i mean at that point just use a rashad
I could use many options to beat the game, but I want to use a knife, and if im using a knife for horde clear riposte + flesh tearer is a easy way to kill hordes
bitter turtle
unless u just let your team do it
light ore
you just kill them with your knife
bitter turtle
I could use many options to beat the game, but I want to use a knife, and if im ...
you can, its just using a weapon for something it's really not that good at
which is ok
but obv its far from optimal
low yacht
It's trash enemies a knife is working fine.
bitter turtle
i mean if you want to bleed knife for fun, is fine ofc
i dont really care
all im saying is there's no real reason to use outside of fun
serene bough
if i wanted to be optimal i'd run VoC with a ciag and all the toughness DR in the world
low yacht
Bleed works fine on swords
light ore
the alternatives aren't that great
low yacht
Optimal isn't fun
light ore
the best is probably duelist
serene bough
all im saying is there's no real reason to use outside of fun
imo there's no other reason thats good enough if its not fun
light ore
bleed outputs the most consistent damage out of all the knife blessings
low yacht
Why would I want a optimal build when it still lets me win.
bitter turtle
imo there's no other reason thats good enough if its not fun
that's fine, but your argument is inherently different from someone saying bleed knife is better than weakspot knife in an optimal setting lol
light ore
that aren't named uncanny
bitter turtle
like 
if you find bleed knife fun, run it, game lets you run any build and do well if you know what you're doing
serene bough
that's fine, but your argument is inherently different from someone saying bleed...
If we're talking about killing crushers asap, sure. If you're talking about any unarmored threat, then no
low yacht
Why just have bleed when you can have the best of both worlds as zealot
bitter turtle
If we're talking about killing crushers asap, sure. If you're talking about any ...
i mean i'd say building knife to kill hordes is like building heavy sword to kill crushers
its just not what it's really good at doing
low yacht
Bleed on swords is good because you already cleave enemies.
serene bough
I build a knife to be mobile and kill maniac threats as priority first and foremost. After that, I prefer to have extra horde clearing ability because without bleed its easy to get swarmed and killed by enemies
low yacht
If it kills them I don't really care.
serene bough
Crushers and maulers are also considered, but ripose + flesh tearer synergy is too good to pass up
low yacht
As long my build keeps me alive is what I am more focused on then damage
light ore
you can make a knife that's 90% effective at killing single targets and 20% effective at killing hordes
low yacht
As on many weapons damage is just a dump stat.
light ore
or a knife that's 85% effective at single target and 40% at hordes
is that a good trade off?
serene bough
or a knife that's 85% effective at single target and 40% at hordes
which blessings are you refering to
light ore
seems like it to me
crude fiber
Bleed is better at hoard clear then weak spot knife imo.
hearty panther
its really not
light ore
flesh tearer vs precog mostly
low yacht
Weak spot is better for bigger targets and elites.
crude fiber
bleed on hit node lets you run pure damage blessings if you'd like but I still slap bleed on crit
low yacht
Bleed just makes your damage crazy
light ore
although it's mostly a hypothetical response to "you shouldn't make a weapon better at something it's not designed to do" more generally
low yacht
If you already have a good weapon with cleave or penetration
light ore
which i think is dumb
bitter turtle
you can make a knife that's 90% effective at killing single targets and 20% effe...
that's not really a good comparison
er, analogy
bleed dmg is really low
low yacht
Making your tools more multipurpose is just better.
bitter turtle
i already posted a vid before showing how little it does to bosses
and crushers
quite literally takes 3x as long
hearty panther
no its pretty apt were just being pedantic about the numbers
serene bough
you're focusing on bosses and crushers
bitter turtle
he literally said there's a 5% difference between bleed and weakspot knives on bosses/crushers lol
so yes
im focusing on that part
low yacht
Bosses aren't supposed to be a easy fight.
bitter turtle
its more like 30 vs 90%
hearty panther
thats not what he said
serene bough
yeah but the point of using a bleed knife isn't to focus crushers
monstro you can chip down a bit, sure
hearty panther
also monstros are very easy <.<
serene bough
but it's for horde management bc procing a crit melee hit will kill melee trash
light ore
its more like 30 vs 90%
? a knife with just uncanny will kill a crusher in like 4-5 shots
hearty panther
since they nerfed cspawn ive been sadge
low yacht
That's silly if you only use a knife.
light ore
flesh tearer will sometimes bring it down by 1
bitter turtle
? a knife with just uncanny will kill a crusher in like 4-5 shots
they arent running uncanny
light ore
precog will sometimes bring it down by 2
either way you're not losing literally 60% single target efficiency
low yacht
On eviscerator my thing already goes through things so bleed is good
light ore
and this isn't even taking into account problems with precog uptime
low yacht
I mean eviscerator is good for hordes and crushers.
bitter turtle
you can always run mercy killer+uncanny or riposte uncanny for consistent 3shots
muted knot
do zealots just suck in auric `?
serene bough
okay, let me propose a different question
low yacht
No
They don't suck in auric.
You're just not using the right tools for auric.
Unfortunately.
serene bough
if my knife can easily kill maniacs in 1-2 hits and I'm prioritizing them as the main reason i'd bring a knife, and I have a weapon/grenade that can easily dispatch armor, why shouldn't I invest blessings into my knife to make it more effective at hordes
low yacht
Hordes are most of the enemies anyways.
hearty panther
because you have a knife on veteran. the latter has access to the best finesse boosts in the game and the former having the highest finesse bases in the game
light ore
hordes are also the least important enemies
bitter turtle
there are other weapons that 1shot maniacs that are good at hordes
if your goal is to round out your build
like i said
low yacht
But are veteran you usually have grenades.
bitter turtle
you might as well bring rashad at that point
also 1 shot maniac
does hordes exceedingly well
serene bough
u should just not bring knife in the first place then
I'm choosing to bring a knife, because i bought the game and want to use it
low yacht
Stabbing them in the head will kill them
bitter turtle
I'm choosing to bring a knife, because i bought the game and want to use it
ok yes, but that goes back to what i said
if its for fun
then sure
do whatever you want
low yacht
Knives are optimal
light ore
using the 3rd best weapon in the game vs using the best weapon in the game
serene bough
because you have a knife on veteran. the latter has access to the best finesse b...
Vet also has access to repricocity, which synergizes extremely well with bleed blessings such as flesh tearer
light ore
isn't a "just for fun" decision
low yacht
When you have the build for it
low yacht
Many psykers use knives.
light ore
any more than using columnus instead of plasma is "just having fun"
bitter turtle
a reason other than for fun
light ore
both are meta picks
bitter turtle
if you're original statement was
hearty panther
Vet also has access to repricocity, which synergizes extremely well with bleed b...
it synergizes much better with precog i assure you lol
low yacht
Bleed in most situations is good
light ore
the argument people are making is that bleed knife is meta
low yacht
As in auric it isn't just more elites the hordes get larger and larger.
light ore
you can disagree, but it isn't "i like bleed cause i like fun"
serene bough
you dont see the point of using a weakspot knife
If that's the statement we're refering to, perhaps I should mention I don't see much point on using a weakspot knife on veteran only
low yacht
The common enemies become more common.
bitter turtle
If that's the statement we're refering to, perhaps I should mention I don't see ...
well, that was what i was explaining to you
thick wolf
damn it brunt you had to kark up at the stability part
low yacht
And difficult
bitter turtle
most of the time a more proper loadout for knife pairs it with a horde gun like the brautos
because as much as you try
even bleed knife still takes many swings to kill hordes
compared to rashad clicking 2 or 3 times
its cleave is just poor
thick wolf
max damage and stopping only for the gun to be basically firing a barrett .50cal at hipfire in Insurgency Sandstorm
bitter turtle
even mk6 just kinda copes
low yacht
Being carried by zealots using the knife you speak of.
serene bough
But horde clear is not the focus of the knife, it's mobility and killing maniacs. Bleed is just there to compensate for the weaker horde clear of the knife
light ore
you take knife cause of mobility and single target deletion
bitter turtle
But horde clear is not the focus of the knife, it's mobility and killing maniacs...
there's weapons that are just not good at certain things even if you try to build them that way, compared to other weapons
like i said
i CAN build my bayonet to kill carapace
i can run exploit weakness and onslaught
low yacht
Hammer is single target
light ore
and then just kill the horde slower than you would with the rashad
serene bough
But bleed knife is good for that, which is what you seem to not agree on
bitter turtle
im not going to say it makes it good at it though
flint arrow
u take knife to lose game
bitter turtle
But bleed knife is good for that, which is what you seem to not agree on
well that is what this argument comes from no?
light ore
but again, even if bleed is worse for single target
bitter turtle
you think its good
low yacht
Until you get carried by a knife zealot.
bitter turtle
i am saying it is not good
light ore
there is value in making a weapon more versatile
bitter turtle
Until you get carried by a knife zealot.
zealot chat memes even harder on bleed knife
low yacht
Hordes are the most of your issues and bleed makes it efficient
bitter turtle
i remember they used to literally make images making fun of bleed knives lol
light ore
that isn't to say "bleed knife better than rashad at horde clear"
serene bough
I mean, it most certainly is good. Your entire point was to use the knife to clear armor threats faster
thick wolf
I feel conflicted on this currently highest ia lasgun brunt roll
low yacht
I use bleed sword
serene bough
but If I want to clear armor i can use my other weapon/grenade
light ore
the argument is "bleed knife better than non bleed knife at horde clear, and it's better to diversify"
bitter turtle
like
u can literally search
bleed knife in zealot chat
and its 50 pages of ppl memeing on it
if u want to bring zealot in the argument
lul
serene bough
Zealot chat is full of degeneracy
bitter turtle
im not saying u
low yacht
I don't use knife because it's boring
bitter turtle
vivid
crude ermine
we have shredder frag, but what about leonardo, donatello, raphael, and michaela...
Destroyed
bitter turtle
since they brought up zealots
low yacht
Most zealots who uses knives probably don't use bleed.
crude ermine
I hate the numerous theres
low yacht
And probably have a lot of finesse
rare tartan
Hordes are the most of your issues and bleed makes it efficient
if you struggle against horde , use cadia chain sword or devil claw , got an awesome cleave clear
i dunno i love powersword , in melee solves everything
serene bough
the argument is "bleed knife better than non bleed knife at horde clear, and it'...
My point is more this: the only enemies that really requrie extra investment to rending and weakspot modifiers are heavily armored ones like crushers and maulers. You don't need to invest in weakspot/rending blessings to kill maniac threats and anything below it in 1 or 2 hits. If I'm already killing things so quickly with an "unoptimized" knife, why bother pushing the damage profile into armored threats when I can already dispatch them with something else more effective than a knife?
If the argument is "use a different weapon", thats not valid
muted knot
You're just not using the right tools for auric.
my man it aint me but i saw nothing glaringly wrong with this guys build, from what i saw in the actual game they didnt play too badly either
bitter turtle
If the argument is "use a different weapon", thats not valid
it is valid
light ore
My point is more this: the only enemies that really requrie extra investment to ...
are you doing something like running flesh tearer + duelist, with something like a columnus with onslaught?
just to clarify
muted knot
my man it aint me but i saw nothing glaringly wrong with this guys build, from...
and its a pattern ive been seeing a lot recently
rare tartan
My point is more this: the only enemies that really requrie extra investment to ...
bro u just use powersword , and melt crushers literly anything with special attack
bitter turtle
it would be like if i said "onslaught and exploit weakness is SO good on bayonet i dont see why people run grenades"
and my reasoning was
because i dont care about horde clearing and im just trying to round on bayonet
serene bough
are you doing something like running flesh tearer + duelist, with something like...
Flesh tearer + riposte + repricocity for knife
Weapon and grenade depends, if I'm using a heavy weapon that shreds armor i bring shredder if I bring infantry las or something lighter ill bring krak
serene bough
I flip back and forth but currently im using the new one
mk4?
i forget which number it is
crude ermine
Is it more texture grey
light ore
knife even without uncanny kills crushers in like 8 hits
which is obviously worse than 4, but still not terrible
serene bough
Spam push attacks for maniacs and others, spam lights to spread bleed
heavy attack for when im opening or approaching
light ore
depending on if you're playing a mode where crushers are common or uncommon
serene bough
it is valid
If this is valid, you can reduce every argument in the game to "why not use ciag + ps/rashad"
bitter turtle
ok
you know what
im going to just make a vid
lol
im not even convinced
that uncanny+riposte is slower on hordes than bleed light spamming
if we're talking mk6
lets see
bitter turtle
If this is valid, you can reduce every argument in the game to "why not use ciag...
it is if we're talking about optimal "meta" play yeah
light ore
i would be very interested in the results of that test
bitter turtle
like i said
if its
FOR FUN
then sure
use whatever
i dont even use those weapons personally
i also dont go around telling ppl v7 is better than revolver
serene bough
Is it not abdundantly clear that I'm not chasing a meta
I've explained like 5 times I am personally using this for my playstyle
light ore
boiling everything down to the binary of "meta vs for fun" is not good for communication
bitter turtle
I've explained like 5 times I am personally using this for my playstyle
like i said, your original statement had nothing to do with "for fun" so idk
light ore
because people want to talk about how to optimize stuff that isn't the rashad
serene bough
We've been talking for quite some time now
bitter turtle
fair enough
serene bough
discussions change from their original points
light ore
and there's a WIDE difference between saying that the knife and the tac axe user are both just playing "for fun"
when one is one of the best weapons in the game and the other is one of the worst
hearty panther
taxe is the best weapon in the game
light ore
yes
agile yew
Running uncanny+precog on my mk6 knife, since had those from my zealot
zenith spindle
have any of y'all tried the trench rat build? what are your thoughts
serene bough
I can try precog later this week
agile yew
Spamming crits to head makes it decent
hearty panther
spamming headshots period
light ore
make sure to pay attention to your precog uptime
bitter turtle
ya I do
light ore
so that you can more efficiently hate yourself
bitter turtle
that's why i started using riposte lmao
low yacht
Efficiency is boring
hearty panther
reciprocity + desperado also has you over 50% crit with a knife and other nodes with precog will have you more than doubling your finesse multiplier
you'll just be one shot headshotting trash with a light
low yacht
Being efficient has no challenges.
hearty panther
if you miss the head a crit will kill them anyway
hearty panther
and your crit headshot multiplier is some zany nuke
thick wolf
unrelated sorry, this is the highest ia lasgun brunt roll I got for today and did he karked up on the stability part hard.
hearty panther
yea groaners
hearty panther
gotta have uncanny for poxwalkers
bitter turtle
20 dreg bruisers
even though i played poorly, i might add (got hit like 3 times lmao)
light ore
fucking poxwalkers
bitter turtle
for uncanny+riposte heavies
more used to mk3
it was pretty much the same kill time as bleed knife spamming lights
low yacht
If it was a auto gun that stability would be fine
serene bough
honestly I dont
serene bough
but if you want to make your point ill watch the video
low yacht
Yeah there is auto lasguns
bitter turtle
ok sec this conversion takes years
low yacht
But recon sucks if you don't optimize a build with other things to make up for weakness
untold mulch
Yeah there is auto lasguns
Sadly ingame for some reason Fatshark onyl added an auto laser pointer
bitter turtle
but if you want to make your point ill watch the video
you dont need to do anything tbh, im just doing this test just bc i was wondering
i dont use mk6 much
low yacht
Vraks is my favorite
bitter turtle
since i dont like the heavies
light ore
i like to qq cancel the first 2 heavies
light ore
gets into the weapon specialist rythm better for me too
low yacht
If you get good enough with knife you shouldn't care.
light ore
but most of the time you spam lights against hordes
low yacht
It's not impossible just have to dodge like dark souls.
light ore
if you're prioritizing safety
low yacht
And probably die
light ore
i thought you said you found them boring
low yacht
I mean I do
agile yew
Knives gotten me out of tight spots outrunning the crusher pack+horde i went in and noticed my teammates instead of following went to look for loot
(loot which i already looted as im faster with knife)
bitter turtle
the only thing i dont like about mk6 moveset
is u cant spam punch + heavy repeatedly
low yacht
I mean movement of it's fun but otherwise it's boring
bitter turtle
have to do another move inbetween
light ore
knife on zealot is mind numbing, knife on vet is chefs kiss
hearty panther
i hate the mk6
light ore
have to do another move inbetween
yeah, it's the inferior single target knife cause of that
and really only because of that
light ore
serene bough
i havent touched my other classes since the rework
low yacht
Psyker knife is funny
serene bough
have only played vet
light ore
the better dueling sword
agile yew
There should be fun synergy combos, like bleed+wildfire does more dmg as combo
bitter turtle
ok is converting now
light ore
knife psyker with dd and scrier's gaze leaving this reality
low yacht
Dueling sword makes me feel like count dooku when I use lightning
light ore
oh yeah and mettle
low yacht
Dueling sword actually is the only reason I use lightning maybe because I am mostly using my staff.
light ore
dueling sword exists to poke mutants out of charges and nothing else
low yacht
It's pretty nasty.
Usually I nuke crushers then run away to kill something else.
Using staff as a nuke.
light ore
knife users scurrying around like little rats, gnawing on crushers like termites
serene bough
are ogryn cleavers still a thing?
low yacht
Yes
light ore
non-zealot knifing has made me realize that twbs actually makes the game extremely boring for me
serene bough
I dont think I see people run cleavers often
low yacht
Ogryn mace when?
bitter turtle
the mk 4 actually has knife movetech funny enough
the mk4?
light ore
the mk 4 cleaver?
light ore
i don't play ogryn
light ore
i wouldn't have been suprised if i had gotten it wrong
low yacht
The shovel I see used isn't back
opaque kayak
Isn’t back?
light ore
rip
low yacht
Cleaver is just a huge hatchet more then a knife
bitter turtle
i always feel like a literal dumbass because idk how people clip shit so easily
lilac eagle
Windows key + g?
low yacht
Unless they call it cleaver because they cut thick meat. It sucks against armor
hearty panther
theyve done it multiple times before or they pay for the upload service
lilac eagle
Opens xbox game bar and let's you record your screen
light ore
i assume it's just something you spend 30 minutes setting up to easily do
low yacht
Console player so it's difficult
bitter turtle
lilac eagle
Console player so it's difficult
Pretty sure much consoles have a built in clipping feature now
bitter turtle
i still get chonked once in both videos no bulli
anyway both videos from the first hit until the end are literally about 17 seconds to kill the 20 dreg bruiser
low yacht
Pretty sure much consoles have a built in clipping feature now
Yeah there is and it's annoying to access screenshots
bitter turtle
like nearly exactly the same
low yacht
Consoles are computers but they're optimized differently
So you wouldn't call them one despite they have similar parts
lilac eagle
I haven't read about console capturing in a whiiiile but it has to be easy af nowadays
low yacht
Phone takes so long
lilac eagle
I remember capture cards being made irrelevant at least 5 years ago
low yacht
PC is near instant
light ore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncBECJXpRoA
i have some issues with the methodology, but i'm not entirely clear on what we're trying to measure anymore
bitter turtle
i have some issues with the methodology, but i'm not entirely clear on what we'r...
im open to suggestions
and i was saying
i wasnt sure if spamming bleed lights was any faster than uncanny heavies even for hordes on mk6
for mk3 probably since it doesnt have cleaving heavies
light ore
well you're changing 2 varaibles between the tests
bitter turtle
i changed 2?
light ore
i think lights uncanny + flesh tearer vs lights uncanny + duelist would be the most interesting comparison
muted knot
that clip made me never wanna pick up a knife again:D
light ore
in the second test you posted, i don't think duelist is even doing anything
light ore
cause uncanny 1 taps bruisers on heavies anyways
bitter turtle
i mean
if you're just using lights though
wouldnt you be better off using mk3 then
light ore
sry my bad i mean riposte
light ore
i'm not as interested in mk comparisons though, the differences are slight imo
bitter turtle
so basically
light ore
i'm more interested in evaluating blessing impact
bitter turtle
riposte vs flesh tearer then
jaunty fiber
Jesus, Veteran sucks without the shout. I hate every other build I've tried
hearty panther
mk3 3rd light has mad stacked finesse
light ore
yeah, 2nd heavy into 3rd light repeating is a good single target dps option
don't know if it's better than special heavy repeating though
untold mulch
Jesus, Veteran sucks without the shout. I hate every other build I've tried
Infiltrate is fun
jaunty fiber
Fun =/= good
untold mulch
Running away from consequences = build
serene sage
Does the enemy have psykers?
hearty panther
probably
jaunty fiber
I like it too but I've yet to make it work in a way that has any real impact
serene sage
So far we've seen none right?
crude ermine
Not a singlen
untold mulch
Does the enemy have psykers?
I hope they get some later on
jaunty fiber
Pretty sure we'd have a wild time if we had to deal with enemy warp powers
untold mulch
Would be nice to have Psyker elite/special
serene sage
I hope they get some later on
In which case we should get null operatives
jaunty fiber
Yeah and then we'll have to suddenly build for warp resistance :V
serene sage
And make the Psykers suffer
hearty panther
VoC is so fucking boring also
jaunty fiber
Be careful what you wish for
untold mulch
Give me a Hellgun
and I am fighting a Space fucking Marine
jaunty fiber
You're also dying a horrible, heretical death
hearty panther
I'm actually getting tired of having perpetual toughness overheal in some games since it utterly trivializes so much
serene sage
Be careful what you wish for
What's the worst that can happen
They should go all in and let us be corrupted as a plot line
jaunty fiber
Y'know that reminds me
Honestly, I'm not sure what they can do to expand out options as players
They'd have to devize entire new classes to give us further variety outside of weapons
Like even whole new weapons can only go so far
untold mulch
New paths, or new trees that you swap out
jaunty fiber
Yeah no, that'd be a nightmare
What we have now is already poorly balanced
Keeping a class constrained to three archetypes like this is a cleaner execution but it DOES block off the vermintide approach which was the original plan
serene sage
They'd have to devize entire new classes to give us further variety outside of w...
DLC type deal then
bitter turtle
just light spam
19 seconds
after trying multiple times is usually around 19-20 seconds
untold mulch
I assume they have thought out future expansion
if they had any braincell
sooo
50/50
jaunty fiber
I'm sure they have. I just can't imagine what it is
light ore
19 seconds
for both blessings?
serene sage
I mean it's 40k
just take a quick peek at the table top rule book and you have ideas galore to adapt to lore
serene bough
anyway both videos from the first hit until the end are literally about 17 secon...
so whats the conclusion
sorry i stepped away from pc
dusty sluice
pc4 finally
light ore
so whats the conclusion
new tests were required
serene sage
like others have said, we have have a mechanicus novitiate, maybe a marine scout reject
some random adeptus arbites dude
serene sage
or a pariah gene operative
serene sage
so we can really shove it up psyker's ass
agile yew
19 seconds
Did you try Uncanny+Precog? Curious if i should change mine
light ore
lol well that would be another test
i can say pretty confidently though that lights are safer
serene sage
you are
bitter turtle
true
serene sage
idek what we are talking about
sharp ember
do you think zealots would love or hate a rejected scout marine recruit
light ore
i generally use heavies if i'm running around, or reloading with weapon specialist
or spamming into a choke
but if you're in the thick of things you generally lean on lights and push attack
serene sage
do you think zealots would love or hate a rejected scout marine recruit
love em, they are almost an angle of the emperor
light ore
also was it was 19-20 seconds for both blessings you said?
dusty sluice
its finally done
serene sage
pog
light ore
if that's the case duelist might be better than flesh tearer
serene sage
you can rest now
agile yew
How is Brutal vs Sunder?
sharp ember
i'd really like a mechanicus acolyte for our 5th class so we could delve into mechanicus gear
dusty sluice
you can rest now
70hrs looking for pc4
agile yew
I have crafted 30-40 trauma staffs, looking for lvl 3 Blazing Spirit
6/7 blessings unlocked for it, the others multiple time, RNG not favouring me with that one
bitter turtle
if that's the case duelist might be better than flesh tearer
no i have to test the other one too again
because the original bleed test was what hugz runs
sharp ember
How is Brutal vs Sunder?
brutal will kill more trash per swing, sunder will help you cleave through multiple elites to keep them staggered
bitter turtle
no uncanny, bleed + riposte
light ore
gotcha
sharp ember
but in my opinion you want brutal for the bodycount increase
dusty sluice
What Tanner runs
this is what i run
light ore
i trust tanner's stuff very little
umbral scaffold
this is what i run
Horrible stats, hold x immediately
agile yew
Think i got lvl 4 riposte, should switch and see how it does
dusty sluice
Horrible stats, hold x immediately
ft and finnese is high enough for me
bitter turtle
i shill precog a lot but honestly I kinda prefer riposte
its just comfier
always 3 shot on crusher
instead of sweating for the 2 shot
serene sage
i trust tanner's stuff very little
I also don't trust him. But this particular build doesn't look bad. Quite meta, in fact.
light ore
i think he's an unreliable source of information, in a very literal sense
agile yew
My stabby thing, it was just first thing that was decent when i hit lvl 30
light ore
some of his info is good, and i've learned stuff from him
some of his takes are kinda weird
serene sage
i think he's an unreliable source of information, in a very literal sense
Oh trust me, we know. I had a personal run in with him and verbally exchanged a few comments.
light ore
some of it is just objective misinformation
serene sage
I'm just saying to be fair, this particular build doesn't suck.
light ore
yeah
serene sage
Credit where credit is due.
light ore
the weirdest thing about that knife is the perks
since he's got onslaught for crushers
but maybe those are actually the secret sauce
serene sage
I think he will get a lot of mileage with Rashad
Using the same build
Then again Col5 is so good your melee might not matter in the end
bitter turtle
i dont think melee critical hit dmg is ever a good choice no?
light ore
that's the conventional wisdom
light ore
it might be that crit damage on knife is SO high that it makes it worth it
serene sage
i dont think melee critical hit dmg is ever a good choice no?
I think it's fine. Desperado, right?
agile yew
i dont think melee critical hit dmg is ever a good choice no?
Yeah its the weirdest thing in there, probably bad crafting RNG
dusty sluice
byebye stam
hearty panther
this lady at the grocery parking lot looked like she was cradling a baby in her arms or something while unloading her groceries into her trunk
bitter turtle
also
hearty panther
then at the last moment she just threw that shit into the pile
crude ermine
I would've thrown the vaby
serene sage
i dont think melee critical hit dmg is ever a good choice no?
Oh the knife perk? Not Desperado
hearty panther
my brain nearly screamed but it was just a big chicken
agile yew
uncanny flesh tearer was 18 seconds
Did you do uncanny precog yet?
serene sage
then at the last moment she just threw that shit into the pile
Yeet the baby
light ore
i appreciate you doing the tests
sharp ember
my brain nearly screamed but it was just a big chicken
is the chicken ok
hearty panther
idk he looked plucked
bitter turtle
cant imagine its very good for hordes tbh though
if you wanted to make a "horde knife"
light ore
i would be very suprised if precog made a difference
sharp ember
idk he looked plucked
behold a man
light ore
in b4 12 second clear time
agile yew
Im curious to see how much worse it is if thats the case, if i should switch mine
serene sage
if you wanted to make a "horde knife"
Horde knife = pregnant virgin
light ore
lol the final test would be for a knife with just uncanny
maybe the secret was that knife blessings don't do anything at all
bitter turtle
well
they definitely do something
on crushers
but yeah idk how much they really influence your horde dmg on a weapon that
hearty panther
it does something on almost everything
bitter turtle
Horde knife = pregnant virgin
^ is pretty aptly described like this
uncanny riposte lights
hearty panther
stab the dreg rager, then stack uncanny and do it again
bitter turtle
uncanny flesh tearer lights
stlil
i feel like heavies are better no?
but idk maybe i just dont use mk6 and i dont get it lul
i only use mk3 in real games because fuck rolling another knife
light ore
well you literally did a test with just heavies, and it was the same clear time, wasn't it?
although you didn't qq cancel out of the 3rd single target heavy
bitter turtle
depends if you think a 2 second gap is significant
the original two tests were uncanny + riposte with heavies
riposte+bleed with lights
light ore
honestly probably within the margin of statistical deviation
bitter turtle
so those two have very little to do with what we're doing now ye
light ore
well, riposte+bleed is like THE theoretical "horde clear knife"
serene sage
Me defending this game sometimes
light ore
so if it's not doing better, then that's pretty rip
bitter turtle
lol
light ore
but yeah, not an extremely rigorous comparison
bitter turtle
precog is also around 18 seconds
light ore
i'm in fucking shambles
bitter turtle
well, riposte+bleed is like THE theoretical "horde clear knife"
well, even it was basically the same speed
bitter turtle
np
im gonna save myself the trouble of uploading precog + uncanny
its literally just the same episode of the same show tbh
and ya
the precog uptime was high
i made sure to check
after
light ore
i think it's much better in a solo enviorment than with teamates
has been my experience
bitter turtle
yeah, since you can predict enemy behavior better without other sources of aggro
same idea as counter-dependent weapons feeling better to use in MH when you dont have the enemy hopping around everywhere
midnight totem
Does brittle proc with bleed damage or only on hit?
zealous wyvern
Me defending this game sometimes
my defending this game: i can kill for the Emperor, it looks nice and 40k is cool
bitter turtle
Does brittle proc with bleed damage or only on hit?
which brittle
thunderous (the blessing on chaxe and others) works on bleed procs
onslaught (talent on the tree) does not
bitter turtle
i'm in fucking shambles
i uploaded it anyway
for the fuck of it
if anyone wants to see the precog uptime
i think it drops like twice but only for a fraction of a second
midnight totem
which brittle
Good to know, ty
bitter turtle
lol the final test would be for a knife with just uncanny
lol
so i ended up trying this
it was
19 seconds
spoilers: uncanny does everything and nothing matters
on horde at least*
agile yew
I might change precog to riposte on my Zealot since many talents that give effects when critting
light ore
agile yew
If the dmg difference is so negligble, might aswell play then on other strenghts
bitter turtle
and ya i tried grey knife with no uncanny
23 seconds, so uncanny alone makes more of a difference than any other blessing
light ore
well, time to pick fights about crusher kill time
bitter turtle
If the dmg difference is so negligble, might aswell play then on other strenghts
its negligible on hordes at least
light ore
i like how we're not even giving Executor the time of day
bitter turtle
lol fuck that one
hearty panther
now do it again with precision strikes reciprocity and desperado
hearty panther
executor has the potential to be good
light ore
quick, do a test where you hit every head and don't miss once
hearty panther
but 30% is not enough
bitter turtle
hearty panther
at least it works now
light ore
at least it works now
the nicest thing you could say about it
bitter turtle
i had the bright idea of
punch to stack executor
and then i found out at least for mk3
if you cancel punch quickly it doesnt land
hearty panther
before p13 i still would have said executor was the second best blssing
hearty panther
executor needs to be idk 10% per stack perhaps
but the knife is already hella strong
light ore
if you cancel punch quickly it doesnt land
there's a hilarous clip of someone doing holy shit you just posted it
"wah! wah! wah!"
throw tantrum at the crusher
bitter turtle
it really looks like that doesn't it LOL
light ore
it's not very effective...
wanton dawn
I am asking myself: should you take serrated blade with thunderous axe ?
Implying of course that I would take an axe to begin with but
So assuming T4 thunderous with 8 max stacks, bleed might allow you to reach the full stack before the 2nd axe swing, increasing your 2nd axe swing damage by about 20% rending
It might help reduce the number of hit to kill on some elite
bitter turtle
time for loadout mod
serene sage
Guys I have a solution to your woes
It's very simple, just don't use knife
There, that would be $5
slender turtle
Me defending this game sometimes
there are good things to speak of. Then there are things i wish Fatshark would just amputate from their company business
wanton dawn
It's very simple, just don't use knife
Is bayonet a knife ?
serene sage
there are good things to speak of. Then there are things i wish Fatshark would j...
I think Back for Blood could have been a great game if not for the stupid marketing.
hollow ibex
It's very simple, just don't use knife
stupid mudkip take
slender turtle
I think Back for Blood could have been a great game if not for the stupid market...
No. Just no 
serene sage
I didn't know I have this many haters 😔
Knife is bad. Why would you use it? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Hell, don't bring a knife to a sword fight.
serene sage
No. Just no <:pepegrin:884186767639584798>
Hater smh my head
slender turtle
Cause knife is good on vet but it needs more crit for him to be disgustingly good
Like the way zealot gets natural crit from talents
serene sage
Nuh uh
slender turtle
yeah huh
bitter turtle
Cause knife is good on vet but it needs more crit for him to be disgustingly goo...
recip
there's your knife crit
crude fiber
Recip + repost + innate 15% crit chance gives you a 50% crit right?
terse idol
I think Back for Blood could have been a great game if not for the stupid market...
Hm, problematically the gameplay struggled to capture what made l4d good in the first place
slender turtle
recip
Dodging to get that 25% is just more work than just 'kill 25 enemies to get a boost in crit and hold it for as long as you are in the action'
terse idol
Well mainly the whole
no sound queues for specials
And what they did with the DLC
That game, which I have rn, damn it's dead
crude fiber
Hm, problematically the gameplay struggled to capture what made l4d good in the ...
The kept nerfing shit too didn't they?
terse idol
The kept nerfing shit too didn't they?
I don't know about that, I played when the game first came out
crude fiber
You got the right set up for it besides the weak spot perk (rip)
dusty sluice
You got the right set up for it besides the weak spot perk (rip)
other was t1 pox dmg lmao
i am the number 1 recon las hater
this is heresy
balmy sapphire
any advice on ranged weapons for vet?
dusty sluice
plasma revi and ciag
crude ermine
Well that can be a broad statement
tiny summit
any advice on ranged weapons for vet?
Guns thay aren't recon or shredder pistol
And you'll do fine. Plasma will also answer everything in the game
crude ermine
Plasma op please nerf recon
tiny summit
increased recon ammo cost by 100%
soft blade
any advice on ranged weapons for vet?
point them towards enemies
bleak jackal
any advice on ranged weapons for vet?
take the one thats the most fun for you
tiny summit
iLas and IAGs
crude fiber
Removed crit string entirely from recons and reduced base crit chance to -5%
Calling the next patch right here
hearty panther
i hope they do remove crit strings
from everything
it's a stupid fucking mechanic
tacit wren
With the regular lasguns I get tired from having to fire so much, even making it semi automatic or something would help
crude fiber
Increased cool down on shocktrooper, double the ammo cost per shot and added the plasma overheat mechanic to recons
bleak jackal
they are semi automatic
tiny summit
You mean making them automatic?
tacit wren
Otherwise I am just in the back going pew pew pew 100 times
tiny summit
On PC? Download full auto mod
tacit wren
Xbox
crude fiber
Regular lasguns aren't TOO bad as long as there aren't any elites lol
bleak jackal
or bind the shoot button to your mousewheel
tacit wren
I guess I can do that with the pro controller
dawn garnet
is plasma gun suicider a valid strat?
tiny summit
They handle elites just fine
tiny summit
is plasma gun suicider a valid strat?
It used to complete psyker penance
crude fiber
Meh, crushers and maulers specifically
tacit wren
thats a subset of elites
crude fiber
Gunners and ragers sure
bleak jackal
for crushers you have nades
viscid sparrow
which blessings and perks would be best on mk3 shovel?
tacit wren
Crushers and maulers will always require special consideration, unless you just have the bolter and even then
crude fiber
Even with DA headhunter its ot worth lasgunning crushers or maulers
tiny summit
Oh you mean carapace...that I wouldn't expect the average rifle to deal with
Yea because they aren't meant for them?
tacit wren
just whip out the chain axe, do a special, latch, dash, repeat
crude fiber
You can recon those guys just fine tho with onslaught anyway
tacit wren
I would love to be able to add better scope or sights to the bolter tho
tiny summit
You can recon those guys just fine tho with onslaught anyway
I wouldn't consider half mag dump with recon "fine"
crude fiber
Well that's what you do with anything that's not a power weapon lol
soft blade
Meh, crushers and maulers specifically
kid named melee:
bleak jackal
i will only play recon if they get the scope from the kantrael
tacit wren
yeah I mean you counting the bullets on the columnus but pretty sure thats a "half mag" of the 54 bullets
crude fiber
i will only play recon if they get the scope from the kantrael
Were you the console guy? Otherwise there's mods for that
tiny summit
Literally any melee or nades would be more efficient. I don't think any average rifle should deal with you know...high armor targets
soft blade
if you’re running a lasgun you really should bring something else to bust armor
tacit wren
yes, I prefer chain axe or power sword
slow spade
Literally any melee or nades would be more efficient. I don't think any average ...
sad plasma rifle noises
tiny summit
Main problem with balance is that plasma answers everything
tacit wren
nade and powers word with a good cleave can take off the head of several crushers
crude fiber
Efficiency wise absolutely melee or meta weapon for crusher/mauler. I just like lasering down crushers with my silly little laser pointer
tacit wren
but if you get caught off footing with a lasgun you are absolutely fucked
tiny summit
Well helbores can.
slow spade
but if you get caught off footing with a lasgun you are absolutely fucked
"man this laspistol is fun" -> cue 10 rager pack
thick wolf
spike attack from spike shovel
crude fiber
That's what nades, VOC, or back dodging is for
slow spade
That's what nades, VOC, or back dodging is for
no I paid Hadron too much plasteel to NOT use it
crude fiber
Or run back to big brother ogryn to slap them around lol
tacit wren
"man this laspistol is fun" -> *cue 10 rager pack*
that's why we need a bolt pistol
or dual wield pistols, or pistol/sword combo
crude fiber
Behold, all the shoulder crushing recoil pinpointed directly to your wrist
tiny summit
no I paid Hadron too much plasteel to NOT use it
Darktide 🤝 FGC : I didn't pay to block
thick wolf
"man this laspistol is fun" -> *cue 10 rager pack*
We got a karking early wipe because game decided oops all scab maulers in the bridge segment
slow spade
that's why we need a bolt pistol
if only...
tacit wren
I was thinking it would be cool for the Ogryn to dual wield Plasma guns or Bolters
slow spade
Darktide 🤝 FGC : I didn't pay to block
facts UwU
slow spade
I was thinking it would be cool for the Ogryn to dual wield Plasma guns or Bolte...
megabolter for ogryns when?
crude fiber
Aren't they too stupid to use plasmas?
dawn garnet
ogryn bolters are just two rocks the ogryn use to hammer the bolter rounds
tacit wren
The issue is that it feels dumb to use a laspistol in this game
slow spade
Aren't they too stupid to use plasmas?
that's why they'll get Volkite Incinerators instead c:
crude fiber
What's that?
crude fiber
Lol, lmao
tacit wren
Everytime I see someone using the handgun it is when I am dead, and its a stealth vet or zealot, and I immediately understand why we are all down but them
crude fiber
Fuck this groaner
slow spade
Everytime I see someone using the handgun it is when I am dead, and its a stealt...
to be fair, a crit build laspistol is pretty strong
slow spade
Fuck this groaner
BEHOLD THE LIGHT OF THE EMPEROR -> pew
muted knot
I mean volkite just eats whatever it's hitting
crude fiber
Is it a Cannon or big flamer or something?
slow spade
Is it a Cannon or big flamer or something?
think a laser gun that turns your mass into more energy that feeds the laser
basically the stronger you are, the more sad you are when hit by a Volkite
dusty sluice
cara or flak instead of unyielding
crude fiber
basically the stronger you are, the more sad you are when hit by a Volkite
that would a mess to balance lol
bitter turtle
did we come to knife conclusion yet
Yes
slow spade
that would a mess to balance lol
then it fits in with the current balance 💪
bitter turtle
After testing it turns out for hordes ur second blessing doesn't actually matter
crude fiber
cara or flak instead of unyielding
Flak might get you the scab rager 1 shot
bitter turtle
Only uncanny actually speeds up your horde speed significantly
But riposte, flesh, precog are all basically within 1 or 2 seconds of each other against 20 dreg bruisers
serene bough
i see
bitter turtle
And actually
Even outright running uncanny solo is basically the same speed
As uncanny + second blessing
So the second blessing only really matters for bosses and crushers
serene bough
what was ttk on flesh + riposte
bitter turtle
Also about the same
crude fiber
I'm biased and will say flesh tearer is best
serene bough
as uncanny?
serene bough
then it doesnt matter much
bitter turtle
Grey knife with no uncanny was 23 seconds
So only uncanny actually does anything really meaningful
Against hordes *
The second blessing matters for crushers and bosses ofc
raw steppe
uncanny shouldn't really affect hordes cuz rending doesn't affect unarmored/infested
bitter turtle
uncanny shouldn't really affect hordes cuz rending doesn't affect unarmored/infe...
Dregs and flak bruisers
raw steppe
your testing methods are in question
bitter turtle
It was 20 dreg bruisers
serene bough
i mean we could extend this to other horde enemies but im sure you've done enough testing
bitter turtle
I didn't test on poxwalkers and I doubt it changes much
Since they're even more fragile
For crit or bleed to matter
serene bough
crit bleed guaratees killing them
crude fiber
Isn't uncanny a flat 30% damage boost against everything outside of carapce and flak since rending gives 1% damage per 4 %rending over 100 or something like that?
bitter turtle
Isn't uncanny a flat 30% damage boost against everything outside of carapce and ...
Rending doesn't work on unarmoeed and infested armor types
slow spade
also that's assuming they even survive the first hit lol
bitter turtle
That being said again I just doubt it changes much given the poor cleave on knife
Ya
crude fiber
Sure that's why I figured it just gave you that damage boost
bitter turtle
They just die outright on the first hit
And the others you might cleave a little take tiny dmg
I don't think crit or bleed will change anything based on my gut instinct seeing the other tests
But I'm also working now so I can't test to be sure
serene bough
all im understanding is crit bleed is a similar ttk as uncanny, meaning its not so much of a meme
serene bough
I don't want to go through this again
bitter turtle
So actually I'd argue more that crit bleed is pretty meaningless
Well
Again thats just my results testing on hordes
You can run what you like
But if it doesn't raise ttk on hordes significantly and is also lacking on bosses then idk why you'd run it
Fwiw recip bleed was the fastest by 1 second for light spamming
But it was tied with uncanny recip heavy spam
serene bough
you're not testing against the primary horde enemies, but I won't nitpick because you've already done a lot
bitter turtle
I just can't imagine making enemies more fragile favors bleed since it is a dot
But maybe I will test it later
serene bough
proccing a bleed guarantees their death is the point
cleaving a few w/ a crit will remove them
maybe it doesn't matter
bitter turtle
This is theoretical but it doesn't actually remove them instantly so you might still be "wasting" hits on them while they bleed out
Well it's all just hypothetical about poxwalkers
I didn't try it
serene bough
this is just a headache at this point
bitter turtle
the real lesson learned is that uncanny op
crude fiber
I think you cleave 3 enemies with a knife light right? If that hits a crit and you have flesh tear 4 that's 3 dead enemies theoretically. Just side dodge spam so your always hitting new enemies and you'll hoard clear pretty fast
On groaners and poxwalkers anyway
serene bough
thats the idea
raw steppe
the problem is, those enemies aren't actually dead lol
they still block hits via hit mass
bitter turtle
that's the ideal but i dont know about "in practice"
raw steppe
they can still swing at you
bitter turtle
because of the above yes
or if it makes a big difference as said bc cleave damage is hella low
serene bough
dodge distance w/ a knife is enough to get away in my experience
but honestly, ill just accept im wrong and move on from this
crude fiber
Well that's what the side dodge spam is for, to get to new targets. In a hallway I'm sure it's not great but In an open room it's good imo
agile yew
Should probably get bit better ColumnusV than this, but it already slays
Oh well, marginally better, atleast finished instead of blue, gotta wait for proper bases dropping from shop (too poor to farm brunts)
terse idol
Yeah I mean
Truth be told, uh
Even a naked columnus is very gooood
But that's good!
FF and ds
agile yew
Not suprised if it gets nerffed, as it feels kinda ridiculous at times
tiny summit
Not to mention dumdum apparently just working at all ranges
terse idol
tiny summit
Like wtf is this stuff? Tells dmg is only buffed at close range? Blessings applying their buffs if you swap while dealing dmg? Specifically making limbsplitter on bayonet not work but BM still works?
How do you even grasp to understand Fatshark's design intent?
finite imp
flak or unyielding for knife
terse idol
How do you even grasp to understand Fatshark's design intent?
Funny throwing knife interactions
Because for some god forsaken reason some throwables take blessings
inland orchid
Many things that shouldn’t is effected by blessings, is mad funny 
crude ermine
Your mother
inland orchid
Yes even her
tiny summit
It will be fixed
Fatshark: fixes all their bugs and unintended interactions
Us: "Who are you and what have you done with Fatshark?"
wanton dawn
Fatshark: *fixes all their bugs and unintended interactions*
Us: "Who are you a...
"It is ME, slim dolphin !"
"Here is a commlink"
opaque kayak
It will be fixed
So long reaper melter.
pearl granite
is this one good? 😄
grand lark
is this one good? 😄
Good but not really amazing or optimal because of the blessings and perks
You'll want to replace Brutal with Power Cycler ASAP and then probably weak spot damage with Flak or Maniac but then that leaves you with Infested which, especially with Rampage, is pretty useless on a PS
It is good overall though and you can prob get really good use out of it until you can get another where you're luckier on blessings
terse idol
You'll want to replace Brutal with Power Cycler ASAP and then *probably* weak sp...
Waiiit Replace Brutal with PC4?
I'm not... entirely convinced 
would rather keep BM and replace rampage with pc4
what's your reasoning?
viscid sparrow
what's your reasoning?
I only now realized the issue with what he suggested, thank you for bringing this up.
terse idol
I mean, I'm just curious we all got opinions here, I am a believer in BM and PC4 but I've seen rampage
grand lark
I don't personally use or have experimented much with BM on PS so I guess I can't comment a ton on BM directly
viscid sparrow
I mean, I'm just curious we all got opinions here, I am a believer in BM and PC4...
I myself would do BM+PC4 as well, but I only have PC3...
muted knot
So long reaper melter.
Practically everything melts reapers tho
muted knot
I don't personally use or have experimented much with BM on PS so I guess I can'...
BM fucks
sonic marlin
finally one i can work with
terse idol
I'm half way there
muted knot
Daaaamn
sonic marlin
still not sure if i should go toughness, gunner res, stamina regen or toughness regen
terse idol
still not sure if i should go toughness, gunner res, stamina regen or toughness ...
keep the gunner res on that curio
sonic marlin
well yeah
hearty panther
dont
grand lark
I guess I just figured with how much cleave you have on PS anyways that I don't entirely see the benefit of BM but the same argument can prob be made for Rampage since PS special has a shit ton of dmg anyways