veteran-class

[terse idol]

That would actually make sense

[frank ether]

lets just nerf the guns guys that will solve the game

[stable socket]

maybe recon should be the baseline for guns

[ivory marsh]

it does if you dont get stuck in a place for 5min

[terse idol]

Not ONLY YOU

[ivory marsh]

that shovel

has strikedown

[umbral scaffold]

What makes another person's fun more important than mine?

[terse idol]

because then we push a melee meta

[frank ether]

People wont just play psyker noooo

wouldn't happen

P13 didn't happen at all

[tiny summit]

Yea players are having fun. Calling something bad design isn't objective

[soft blade]

make every weapon operate using a flintlock mechanism

[ivory marsh]

???? highest difficulty isn't about the gunblazign fun everything you see. it is about decision making thats the fun on highest difficultys

[ivory marsh]

and if its raining

cant shoot

[soft blade]

[frank ether]

I think a more involved question to ask is does it come at the cost of other people's fun

[soft blade]

games fixed

[tall torrent]

Having multiple players on the team that are very ammo hungry still can run low

[umbral scaffold]

I hate decisions and thoughtful gameplay

[terse idol]

Survivalist meta, kill a special or elite with your melee get ammo for your tram

So it doesn't turn into melee meta the game

[umbral scaffold]

I want to stomp

[frank ether]

with some guns I would argue it does come at the cost of other people having fun

plasma is similar experience to having assail teammate

[ivory marsh]

yes but that's poor ammo econemy weapons WHICH IN RETURN could be buffed if scav is gone AND people would learn to trigger discipline

[frank ether]

especially at lower diff

[tiny summit]

You're on the discord and we're discussing the balancing of survivalist. We're like at the bottom of the totem pole of opinions to take seriously for system wide changes

[tall torrent]

I think it should just be “melee kills on special/elite gain 1% ammo for whole team in coherency”

[umbral scaffold]

But why?

[terse idol]

Yeah

[stable socket]

technically fatshark could just buff poor ammo economy weapons regardless of whether or not scav exists

[umbral scaffold]

I'm not less important than Timmy playing on low intensity malice

[frank ether]

finally an honest take lmao

[stable socket]

if they need a buff, they should get one!

[ivory marsh]

yes but no it makes like plasma/revolver autoguns lasguns be so efficient you dont pick ammo up even once

[tiny summit]

If it's the 0.01% of players who have an issue with scavenger...kinda. Yea

[tall torrent]

Until there’s like a much more well rounded overhaul to ammo econ, this seems the best bandaid solution rn (and that’s if they want to change survivalist)

[terse idol]

Lasgun being efficient makes sense

[ivory marsh]

but fatshark also brings out a patch which does nothing but hey its 5gb

[fair relic]

The emperor has given me a great gift.

[ivory marsh]

YES with the talent

[stable socket]

so like... voidstrike?

[terse idol]

You're mainly pathing for pure range

[ivory marsh]

it's the big ammo % pool which works well

[ivory marsh]

it's peril many psyker blow upü

[stable socket]

purg is flamer without ammo, voidstrike is plasma without ammo

[frank ether]

I think its problematic as an aura, think ammo economy should be a baseline thing guns are balanced around not up to some aura.

[stable socket]

ah then we should make plasma blow vets up more instead

[ivory marsh]

ep bolter for exapmle

[stable socket]

no more auto vent at 100%, what is this training wheel bs

[terse idol]

Peril blowing is a skill issue

[stable socket]

let them explode

[terse idol]

😌

[ivory marsh]

well if light attack would be able to explode

i take it

as cool mechanic

to amke me carefully

cause rn it is stupid

[tiny summit]

Some like the fun of the enemy density. Some like the dmg. Some like the idea of ammo scarcity. More people are probably having more fun with the enemy density and resource payout over "oh boy I hope the director doesn't have 3, 3 slot boxes empty for me"

[umbral scaffold]

Isn't it a common theme in history for a minority to have a problem with the status quo and the status quo changing? I lost count of how many events that started with "you're the minority, no one will listen" ended in the minority causing change

[ivory marsh]

next thing fatshark should add is weapon malfunction if you dont pay aquilas to repair your guns :)))))))

[tiny summit]

This is a videogame. Not civil rights.

[frank ether]

you can certainly redesign the game to not need ammo aura but its not happening in the same way you're not having zealot lose invulnerability/stun immunity or psyker having actual consequences for using peril

[umbral scaffold]

Life doesn't take new rules

[soft blade]

autoguns are now prone to jamming while in any surface environment

[ivory marsh]

well you cant tell me WHY ammo should BE NO important RESSOURCE on highest difficulty you just tell me it's not fun!1!!1! Highest difficulty implies scaricity of MEDICAE / stims/ ammo / mediks

[untold mulch]

Vet chat is in fucking spicy hours lmao

[frank ether]

what you want is a different game entirely

and I'm with you on some parts honestly

[ivory marsh]

I think our melee weapons should go numb and we need to pay aquilas to sharpen them

[tall torrent]

Idk abt scarcity I see people pumping syringes they pick up off sewages all the time

[frank ether]

I just want you to realize taking survivalist doesnt ''bring skill back''

[tiny summit]

I think so too man. Or a more restricted conditions on ammo return. As it stands with all the variables present in the game, removing scavenger would probably piss off far more players than you would ever satsify

[ivory marsh]

well yeah cause many dont know how to use them

[umbral scaffold]

One can argue a city isn't an organism because it's not a living creature, but looking at it broadly there are many mirrors to an actual organism

[ivory marsh]

or forget it*

[frank ether]

https://tenor.com/view/consume-cardboard-box-cat-gif-25431281

[untold mulch]

What no patch does to a mf

[frank ether]

we need another recon nerf to cope with reality

[untold mulch]

Fr fr

[umbral scaffold]

Life imitates itself in the weirdest places

[soft blade]

true !!!!

that way when someone asks about recon the entirety of the channel can say “recon sucks lel” more efficiently

[fair relic]

One thing I've been wondering for a while. Do you have a higher chance of getting a level 4 blessing if you upgrade a weapon from purple to gold or is it the same as green to blue?

[untold mulch]

Yeah we still need to argue

Wastes too much time

[soft blade]

[untold mulch]

I vote it

[frank ether]

I'd rather have it pinned

[soft blade]

recon being equippable is the actual problem with the game now

[frank ether]

its been months of ''recon bad'' at this point

[tiny summit]

You can't really tell me objectively why this is the line. You can't objectively tell me why survivalist can't exist if other variables are also looked at. Also are you the Fatshark design team? Their design for highest difficulty maybe doesn't like ammo being a strain as much as you think the game should cater to you should be

[untold mulch]

Another recon nerf to discuss faster the recon bad point

[soft blade]

not survivalist not VoC it’s been recon this entire time pulling the strings

we must unite against the true enemy

[ivory marsh]

yes

[ivory marsh]

fatshark design team made the crafting system

so did they do the fomo idea

many things fatshark do isnt good

but here 2 fun builds

[tiny summit]

Get a bot that instantly replies when recon is mentioned

[untold mulch]

Recon copypasta when

[frank ether]

so your argument for ''don't need survivalist'' is a voc build ofc that takes like 2 gun talents

classic tbh

[ivory marsh]

? you can play anything

[soft blade]

we should have a recon las status update bot that just repeats “still sucks lol” every week

[tiny summit]

K. Still not telling me objectively why your sense of what highest difficulty should be, is the correct one vs someone else's.

[soft blade]

and ping everyone when saying it ofc

[frank ether]

Yes because my ranged build has ways to gain ammo

so I can in fact play the build

[ivory marsh]

its logical ? look at ALL games with HARDCORE it says SCARCE RESSOURCES i dont need to tell you how MOST games design hardcore

[ivory marsh]

?????

it is mixed combat

the game

[tiny summit]

At everyone "hey look at this dummy thinking about recon"

[frank ether]

and not have to compete for ammo with the likes of %20 speed gunkers or zoomie zealots

[ivory marsh]

play left 4 dead 1 if you want ranged

or play deep rock galactic

[frank ether]

lmao

play GTFO if you want to be strategic?

[ivory marsh]

highest difficulty should have scarcity on ammo

[frank ether]

again

why are any of you here

[untold mulch]

Who has popcorn

[ivory marsh]

not a free feast shoot at anything with 0 thinking

[frank ether]

and not playing GTFO

game is %90 melee

[ivory marsh]

wh40k

[frank ether]

play it

excuses

you clearly care about mechanical depth

[tiny summit]

"Logical" my brother in christ its videogame, an artform and what different people find fun. Do you even like videogames?

[ivory marsh]

just cause you don't understand hybrid "high octane" gamepaly

[frank ether]

so play a game with all the depth and ammo conservation

[soft blade]

the first ever recorded instance of thought crime will be as a result of recon las

[frank ether]

GTFO has a speedrun community

[ivory marsh]

hardest difficulty is not for your casual experience

[frank ether]

you'd fit in well

game has no stun immunity or damage immunity though sorry

[tiny summit]

It still isn't for the DT playerbase.

[ivory marsh]

i just dont understand your point you want to play hardest difficutly without any scarcity?

[frank ether]

I guess if you need regenerating hp thats a skill issue

[tiny summit]

The majority aren't in aurics

[frank ether]

the sacrifice is made in the build path if I'm playing left path

[ivory marsh]

a hardcore mode is about hardcore players

[ivory marsh]

you cna easily

balance ammo drops

per difficulty

no black magic

[tiny summit]

Guess the game isn't for you then. GTFO sounds more up your alley

Like how different people play CoD, Insurgency or Tarkov

[ivory marsh]

have t1 200% t12 75% t3 150% t4 125% or 100 t5 75% (100% if there is a 6th) % is the ammo drop rate

[ivory marsh]

??? powercreep

i just want the hardest difficulty to be hard

thats it

you can play ur malice game howeveryou like

but a hardest difficutly shouldnt be a walk in the park

[tiny summit]

Do you make videogames?

[ivory marsh]

Do I make clothes? no i can still tell if a clothing is poorly made

do I bake my own bread? no i buy it but I can still tell if its bad

[soft blade]

12/16/2047

The great survivalist aura wars still rage in vet channel, it’s becoming harder and harder to shitpost through the endless barrage of angry messages. I fear for my life.

[ivory marsh]

is this american logic

[tiny summit]

From what we see of Fatshark's design goals, they obviously don't align with you

[ivory marsh]

honestly at the moment I am baffled how hardcore shouldnt be hardcore

not the scav in itself

[frank ether]

sir

this is a casual game

[ivory marsh]

they align with us if you know vt1 vt2

[tiny summit]

No but it's always the loudest voices who have no idea

[untold mulch]

This is a Wendys

[ivory marsh]

Loudest or making sense

[tiny summit]

Is DT, VT2?

[ivory marsh]

its the same for you apparently

[ivory marsh]

it literally has the same combat gameplay loop

[frank ether]

I dont think the game thats designed around constantly throwing enemies at you has resource management as a deep part of its difficulty

[ivory marsh]

so how do you make this up?

[tiny summit]

I am laughing a bit. This is funny.

[stable socket]

People who think survivalist is good and fun in highest difficulty should run survivalist
People who don't think survivalist is good and fun in highest difficulty should not run survivalist

[ivory marsh]

they reduced MEDICAE healing per medicae station

so THERE IS

indeed people trying to make it scarce

[umbral scaffold]

I'm pretty sure this game has difficulty-specific modifiers in its code

[stable socket]

If you want to go one step further, you should also leave any game which has a survivalist vet in it

[tiny summit]

Answer the question. Are they the same games?

[ivory marsh]

their the same gameplay loop 🙂

[tiny summit]

Is Darktide, just Vermintide 2?

[untold mulch]

[frank ether]

they also buffed ammo cap not too long ago

[ivory marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[ivory marsh]

yes

CAUSE

they dont WANT to balance it around scav

[fair relic]

Is infernus worth it on a lasgun?

[ivory marsh]

THATS Why

they got buffed

[tiny summit]

I dunno I can shoot a lot more in Darktide with automatics and bolters. So different games and different approaches

[ivory marsh]

hybrid gameplay

[untold mulch]

Imo, not unless very specific missed breakpoint by little

[ivory marsh]

your brain runs on hybrid oxygen i presume

[soft blade]

no not really

[fair relic]

damn

[ivory marsh]

depends if you want to make a quirky boss killer

[iron marten]

It’s gotten to this point of the argument - hurling insults at each other…

[tiny summit]

You are very serious I see. Every similar game is just the same game. No differences. No different approaches. Everything needs to adhere to my sense of design or its bad.

[frank ether]

It sucked with survivalist lmao

[untold mulch]

Mhmm

Didnt you know?

[ivory marsh]

? they had the ammo balanced around old scav

[tiny summit]

Eh the things will probably die to another few shots before infernsus is meaningful.

[stable socket]

If you think survivalist makes auric maelstrom too easy and therefore unfun, I think you should just... not run it, and also kick anyone who runs it from your games

[fair relic]

Damn I wasted all my plasteel just to get a shitty blessing. Stick a fork in me I'm done.

[stable socket]

Then survivalist will no longer affect you in any way

[ivory marsh]

i dont run it and still have way to much ammo

[umbral scaffold]

What makes the people supporting survivalist magically more important or correct than the ones against it?

[stable socket]

Yeah exactly

[untold mulch]

RNG shop is murdering my will to play

[stable socket]

If you have way too much ammo even without surv, why complain about surv?

[tiny summit]

K

[fair relic]

yeah its awful

[frank ether]

they completely nuked old vet ammo bonus of like %40 something and next patch buffed ammo capacity for gun types globally

[serene sage]

What's your win rate in Auric? Genuine question.

[ivory marsh]

Cause "fun" and hardest difficulty shouldnt be hard! in terms of havign scaricity of ressources cause that makes the game not hard rather unfun!

[ivory marsh]

4 real? lemme show you its features!

[stable socket]

Yeah but consider this: fatshark is never gonna balance this game

[soft blade]

110% (rael)

[stable socket]

look at fukcin recon

[untold mulch]

I remember when Vet had +75% ammo 😔

[frank ether]

vet lost its passive ammo bonus and ALL classes received it

[untold mulch]

ANY DAY NOW

[stable socket]

if you're under the impression that "survivalist is the thing holding fatshark back from buffing underperforming weapons" you're wrong, fatshark is the thing holding fatshark back from buffing underperforming weapons

[ivory marsh]

bolter is still balanced around scav being in the team :/

[tiny summit]

As is tradition. Some elite gamer going off

[frank ether]

no it isnt lmao

[untold mulch]

I will repeat every time

It took them 2 MONTHS to add a - to a vet talent

[ivory marsh]

????

[serene sage]

Then I think you can move on to other games
I wouldn't mind t6 but also not a priority
Fixing T5 for some arbitrary reason is meh

[frank ether]

bolter never received the plasma treatment

[ivory marsh]

they need to fix their audio issues

[frank ether]

they just forgot about it and you're making things up in your mind as to why it wasnt touched

[ivory marsh]

but a 6th difficulty or new modifier be refreshing

[frank ether]

they adjusted a lot of hp numbers and didnt readjust bolter

[ivory marsh]

bolter never got buffed

[frank ether]

thats what happened

[ivory marsh]

till they buffed it a little

and it remained that way

[rigid whale]

a stringent ammo economy wouldn't be so contentious if it weren't a competition with other players

[fair relic]

how is the mark 4 kantrael lasgun? Is it any good. Rate of fire seems to be the name of the game.

[untold mulch]

More worth than anything said in the last 15 minutes

thank you

[soft blade]

it’s p good

[ivory marsh]

its a fun pew pew pew gun with the headshot on dmg on crit and crit chance per headshot

[soft blade]

middle of the pack as far as Ilas goes

[umbral scaffold]

In the meantime I'm still trying to figure out why someone having a problem with survivalist needs to be shamed for caring about it

[frank ether]

most of which will outrun you if you're on a gun build

[serene sage]

We have Mk4 las?

[tiny summit]

Or how wildly different the director can be from game to game.

[serene sage]

[ivory marsh]

its the mk4a or something or was the one with the a?

[serene sage]

We have Ia

And 12

I don't remember 4

[untold mulch]

IV, Ia and XII

[soft blade]

mg IV my friend

[fair relic]

oh this says MG 4 not mark 4

[soft blade]

it’s real !

[umbral scaffold]

We only have 2 infantry lasguns

[ivory marsh]

and the 4th it has a medium crack sound the first one has the big crack sound and the mg 12 is idk medium crack sound?

[umbral scaffold]

Anyone saying otherwise is delusional

[soft blade]

the mg IV is reaaaaaal !!!!

[serene sage]

I guess we do

[frank ether]

poor 12

forgorten

[ivory marsh]

graia infantry autogun is just a chinese made gun in 40k

[umbral scaffold]

Glaia infantly autogun

[ivory marsh]

yeah that weird one! which does absolutely nothing

[umbral scaffold]

Mei Ding China

[ivory marsh]

infantry autogun mk1 agripina is fun to play

[frank ether]

every shooter needs its low rof weapon to appel to people who cant pull mouse down

[tiny summit]

I think it's more so their attitude and how they think they have all the answers being an apparent elite gamer. "There are problems with survivalist" yea we know. There's also a lot variables to contend with. Players like these calling aurics too easy are the worst of the playerbase to take seriously for what should be changed.

[untold mulch]

I need my hipfire beam back

[frank ether]

I thought this would be common knowledge to top percentile players in every game

and every time

I'm reminded

[ivory marsh]

is the recoil lower on the graila graia idk how it is prounounced

[fair relic]

Is a beefy kantrael heavy laspistol mk 10 good. would like to try out a pistol.

[frank ether]

that being good at a game doesnt neccessarily mean undesrtanding it lmao

[ivory marsh]

all autoguns have abnormal recoil

[frank ether]

uh.. ab..normal

wdym

[untold mulch]

Top percentile players are the actual worst to balance around

[frank ether]

they all have irrelevant recoil if you ask me

[rigid whale]

death sentence PD2 flashbacks

[ivory marsh]

they have such a kickback but cant kill aynthing some autoguns

[frank ether]

but the thing is

john darktide things recon has too much recoil

[frank ether]

or that bolter is ''uncontrollable''

[rigid whale]

I aim the columnus by moving my mouse down until the hitmarkers start showing up again

[frank ether]

so for john darktide agri iag ''kicks like a mule''

[untold mulch]

Halo, catering to Esports, instead of community play

[ivory marsh]

bolter sighst are animation broken

if you know that it isnt hard

[umbral scaffold]

From personal experience, it doesn't help to belittle and diminish the person

[frank ether]

yes

[serene sage]

Well I am belittling you 😤

[frank ether]

but thats the thing

[ivory marsh]

you realise it while playing

[frank ether]

your average player doesnt play with a crosshair mod that shows exactly how bolter sways

[ivory marsh]

but that this isnt fixed is still fatshark

[ivory marsh]

?

i dont play with crosshair on

but you notic it

if you shoot at a wall

or enemys

[umbral scaffold]

Getting told "you're a minority, shut up" over and over is just annoying tbh

[frank ether]

its off the ironsight

[ivory marsh]

it isn't black magic to check recoil patterns after playing a gun for 10 h

[frank ether]

by a little bit

[ivory marsh]

by a lot

[tiny summit]

Well maybe they should make better points or a better attitude. Patience wears thin after a while of bad points after bad points

[ivory marsh]

the iron sight is on the top left while it is still centered

the actual crosshair

[untold mulch]

THis game autogun recoil is caressing your arm

Most other shooters years ago, were like you were fucking shooting .50bmg

[ivory marsh]

he is trolling me at the moment

[frank ether]

I think the problem with iag recoil is very simple

magdump is awarded

[last parcel]

CAAADIAAAAAAA

[zealous wyvern]

hello darktide comrades

how are you doing

[last parcel]

CAAAAAADIIIAAAAAAA

[frank ether]

you get more recoil for careful small bursts than magdumping

on all iags

[ivory marsh]

actually scopes would help reflex sights this makes autoguns better

[tiny summit]

Less annoying than the elite gamer going "top difficulty too easy" when for most players...certainly isnt.

[zealous wyvern]

i see you are doing good backup

[umbral scaffold]

Wasn't it you mocking the idea of balancing a PvE game or am I mixing people?

[untold mulch]

CADIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[serene sage]

It's dead bro

[zealous wyvern]

CADIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[serene sage]

CADIA STANDS ||NO CHANCE AGAINST CHAOS||

[fair relic]

cadia blows

[ivory marsh]

well you shouldnt balance the hardest difficulty about the average joe the average joe plays the average difficulty

[rigid whale]

I have a columnus stealth build with vet that doesn't take survivalist and I feel bad using it at times due to how ammo heavy it can get. I feel like I end up unable to run it if I have a gunpsyker teammate (no disrespect to em) or a vet who also isn't running surv

[serene sage]

Literally

[tiny summit]

I didn't mock the idea of balancing a PvE game on principle. I'm mocking those who get so heated on it

[rigid whale]

I should probably just run surv on it lol

[last parcel]

i’ll blow you

[keen sedge]

Infantry las gun makes me feel like a proper soldier

[zealous wyvern]

cadia is exemplary

[fair relic]

awww heeeelll yea

[frank ether]

but I respect that they don't want to add excessive sway or inaccuracy cone to iag sprays

[keen sedge]

cadia deez nuts

[umbral scaffold]

Sounds like a pointless semantic difference

[tiny summit]

Good thing the average joes aren't playing the highest difficulties

[zealous wyvern]

as in explode your testicles into dust?

[soft blade]

cadia? more like exploded

[ivory marsh]

but they are? or why you complain and moan that I want hardest difficulty to have scarcity of ammo?

[rigid whale]

PvE balance is extremely important imo, especially when darktide runs into the issue of players competing for kills/resources. you ever played krieg in borderlands 2 coop with a 1000 hour Salvador player? it fucking sucks

[frank ether]

the problem is for whatever reason infantry lasguns have that excessive visual recoil

[zealous wyvern]

ok

ill do it

[untold mulch]

IS so fuckign stupid

[last parcel]

this one’s gonna be all teeth

[keen sedge]

you know what nvm

[umbral scaffold]

Dismissing someone on being the minority alone already was incredibly stupid

[zealous wyvern]

no no

really

i dont mind

dont get cold feet now

[fair relic]

awww heeeelll yea

[untold mulch]

Dude says as he affixes his bayonet

[frank ether]

Best way to play iLas is to get rid of the sight using the gun customization mod, then you just slap a crosshair in there.

[last parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ainsley-harriott-spicy-oil-meat-rub-gif-5292444

[serene sage]

Because your problem is so fucking hard to relate to lmao
I'm like 70-80% win rate on AT5M. I don't think I'm "bad."
But to say that Auric is brain dead is a stretch for me.

[untold mulch]

NOTED

[umbral scaffold]

There's no discussion to be had when people are more willing to listen to the volume of people rather than what each person has to say

[frank ether]

I also like to

increase FoV a bit

on MG1A and MG4

[zealous wyvern]

for crushing things, the shovel would definitely be more fit

[frank ether]

personal pref tho

[ivory marsh]

well yes but even with your 70-80% winrate you can realise the power creep we have

[tiny summit]

They aren't. Most players aren't playing damn or auric. Also maybe Fatshark thinks higher scarcity of ammo as it stands with all factors isn't interesting for higher difficulties.

[frank ether]

I like having wider field of view in ads

[serene sage]

I main Bolter, what powercreep?

[untold mulch]

I made a Shovel build that is murdering carapace like crazy

But Hadron the absolute BI--- doesn't gives me Decimator for horde clear

[ivory marsh]

the dmg everyone dish out

[frank ether]

most of you play iLas to spam shots rather than careful aim anyways so higher fov would benefit a lot of you honestly

[zealous wyvern]

the trick is to raise rewards of the missions at the moment and then increase difficulty because damnation at the moment IS too easy a difficulty to be the maximum

[umbral scaffold]

One of the times we had the majority encouraging bad takes with "the majority is right" we had geocentrism

[ivory marsh]

compare it to the ai directo2 months ago where it was actully hard

[zealous wyvern]

nobody wants to take away our fun casual games

really

they just want something harder and looking at vt2 they are right

[umbral scaffold]

Them's weren't good times btw

[untold mulch]

Tbh, imo, ammo scarcity sucks because it mainly hurts Vet, who has gun as their main stick

[tiny summit]

If you can't understand being told the perspective of how ridiculous one sounds making these bad points, I don't know what to tell you.

[zealous wyvern]

damnation should be made more difficult. however, heresy should get better rewards

[ivory marsh]

gunlugger ogryn

[ivory marsh]

those points are for the hardest difficulty not your heresy or malice 🙂

[soft blade]

ogryns are a myth

[untold mulch]

If it were up to me, I would have given them more ammo recover choices

[soft blade]

silly

[zealous wyvern]

currently using standard issue and its doing so well with uncanny and something else for stacking damage

i am doing well

[ivory marsh]

their weapons currently sadly revolt around scav

[rigid whale]

standard issue shovel is my fav

[umbral scaffold]

From the looks of it, that was your struggle since the start

[untold mulch]

Nice

[serene sage]

I mean more or less. I think the damage is marginally higher, baring some extreme examples like Plasma, Col5, Rev, Gunker bs, Kickback, etc.
I'm not trying to balance the game around 50% win rate though
Darktide is a game where if you're good, you should win 100%

[frank ether]

there is some truth to ''surv bad'' take but to say its its dumbing the game down in a game where you can dumb down gunplay by quite literally walking up to ranged enemies is also baffling

[serene sage]

The damage is higher, sure. But I don't think it's a problem.

[untold mulch]

I want to play GunLugger, but their talents for ammo economy needs to be better

[rigid whale]

honestly I kinda wish elites/specials would just drop ammo. would make the economy scale a lot more easily

[ivory marsh]

well yes it isnt about balancing winrates but to offer a challenge you know? it isnt challenging and if you look at vt2 there is vastly more difficulty

[tiny summit]

You'd probably get away with this. More players would probably accept lower difficulties if rewards were better. As that is another factor. Difficulty and player rewards.

[light ore]

i remember crying about the ammo economy changes from VT1 to VT2

[untold mulch]

I would like it ngl

[ivory marsh]

if scav would be removed they could increase the ammo pool and inheritely buff also ammo pickups indirectly

[light ore]

what a rush

[frank ether]

I think in the end scab/dreg AI is also to blame

but your average melee player would not want to admit that

[tiny summit]

Again. Videogame balance isn't geocentrism

[frank ether]

which I was guilty of

[ivory marsh]

what do you mean exactly?

[frank ether]

but watching my own gameplay its clear as water

I walk into shooter melee range and their IQ is nerfed by a few digits

[untold mulch]

Nurgle rot

[frank ether]

they pull their funny little melee

and die

[ivory marsh]

well they sgo into melee or walk past you

but that's not bad if you can close the gap its your reward

[frank ether]

yes and guess what also conserves ammo?

[serene sage]

I don't play VT2 tbf. In the end I think it's just preferences. Would I play T6 only if they release it? Absolutely.
Would I beg them to make major changes for t5 to be harder (hence a "pseudo" t6) or a straight t6? Not really, Idc enough.
Like i said, your problem is just hard to relate to.

[rigid whale]

shotgunners swapping to melee is an odd choice

[frank ether]

melee'ing the gunner pack

[untold mulch]

As long as I can shoot mainly, I don't mind how its achieved, unless is annoyign as fuck

[ivory marsh]

currently we have the pushbuck making it harder

[umbral scaffold]

Your inability to understand comparisons is not my fault

[frank ether]

my zealot evisc gameplay is

[stable socket]

I think we disagree on this (and have already brought this up), but i don't see scavenger as the reason why fatshark isn't changing ammo caps/pickups to let underperforming weapons shine. I think fatshark is just fine with having some things be vastly stronger than others, so every time they shake up the meta they just let it sit for however long they feel like

[soft blade]

huge if true

[ivory marsh]

a straight up t6 is better than a t5 it divies the difficulty into more chapters

[frank ether]

charge into shotgunner pack, spam lights, profit

thats the ''dangerous cqc ranged enemy''

[ivory marsh]

or cause fatshark is so slow to balance their game OR fix bugs :/

[frank ether]

and zealot chat thinks buffing shotgunner hp/gun damage would fix it

[ivory marsh]

well if you get hit by shotguns say bye to your toughness

you dodge bullets

[stable socket]

yeah personally i don't think scav is holding back balance changes in any way, i think fatshark is just beingn slow about it

[frank ether]

when they PERMASTUN the shotgunner pack

again you understand there is a problem

but you dont undestand the nuance of it

in my eyes

[untold mulch]

It took them 2 months to add a - in a single talent

I have no hope of their working speed

[soft blade]

anyways guys what’s your favorite animal

[ivory marsh]

it took them idk how long to fix silent specialist "cooming soon"

[soft blade]

mine is probably the frog because they look cool

[light ore]

i am going to debate you on frogs

now

[stable socket]

i like dog

[zealous wyvern]

zeah

[stable socket]

dog is friendly and cute

[zealous wyvern]

games are to make ppl happz

[soft blade]

it’s so over frogbros

[zealous wyvern]

the more ppl happy

[soft blade]

[zealous wyvern]

the better you did

[stable socket]

except the one that bite people to death

[frank ether]

turtles are better

[zealous wyvern]

as a basic thumbrule

[untold mulch]

So many studios have forgotten to make games fun, for the sake of being fun

[frank ether]

frog is a high risk playstyle with little reward sir

[ivory marsh]

worst of it all forgetting to finish their game :/

[light ore]

my high school biology teacher had a tank full of turtles and one day they were gone and we asked him where they went and he grinned at us and rubbed his belly

[frank ether]

aaa

[soft blade]

darktide is actually subliminal messaging that you should solve outbreaks of plague with bullets

[tiny summit]

Who knows. Maybe this is the testing they are doing. The main patches have been sprinkling more and more loot crates in maps.

[untold mulch]

Isn't it the correct way?

[soft blade]

and swords

[low kelp]

Anyone have a good exe stance MK2 helbore build?

[untold mulch]

We should just nuke Tertium

Easy

[ivory marsh]

thats what i mean they buffed it

[untold mulch]

"good"

"exec stance"

Pick one

[ivory marsh]

but on 1 thing we can agree boss/daemonhost should boost your plasteel

[frank ether]

voc stabby best helbore build

[tiny summit]

I think giving any reward for daemonhost would be...problematic

[untold mulch]

DH shouldn't but I also dislike DH end design/result

Rest should give you stuff

[low kelp]

Shout is overpowered as shit and a crutch lol

[idle carbon]

how would you improve / change exec stance?

[ivory marsh]

it could but it adds a intitiva at the moment we just kill them cause its fun

[frank ether]

if you wanna be zany you can play infiltrate mk1 so you can stealth one shot ragers to get back on them for all the times they make no sound and murk you from behind

[tiny summit]

Monstronsities? Sure. DH...questionable

[untold mulch]

I use Infil, you are preaching to a non user 🙏

[low kelp]

Trying to play without it since I've already got a good shout/plasma build

[ivory marsh]

monstronsities are random whjile daemon can be intentional or unintentional so you can make a reward system for"cleansing"

i guess

[tiny summit]

So....are we going to argue what's fun vs bad player behavior

[ripe totem]

this is more crushers and maulers for me

[frank ether]

depends on whatever audio game memory leaks decide to eat

any audio can be cut

[ivory marsh]

player behaviour is you say 10x there is a daemon have 20 pings and he walks into it and says didnt see it

[frank ether]

audio ques not playing is not a darktide specific issue

it just hurts a lot in this game

[untold mulch]

Depends on what you want to mainly focus on

Is 11pm here, I don't got braincells now to think non obvious things like toughness regen and shit

[ripe totem]

I just find it hilarious the idea wolfer's secret weapon is just crushers but being more sneaky

[frank ether]

ninja oggies

[tiny summit]

Here ya go buddy. It's my fave build atm

[ivory marsh]

crushers shouldnt be silent at the moment

[ripe totem]

wolfer learned from creed

[frank ether]

they made them incredibly loud to compensate

[ripe totem]

plot twist

[untold mulch]

Audio cue missing + director spawning enemies behind you

I got a crusher spawn on my team back

[ivory marsh]

"Imma crush" and their voice lines too

[frank ether]

I'm actually a little scared with crusher packs now

[tiny summit]

But player behavior is also giving them an incentive to poke the bear when the design of the bear is to not be poked

[frank ether]

they are spooky with sound

[untold mulch]

I lost fear of them with my new shovel

[ivory marsh]

well thats the fun of it

[untold mulch]

COME HERE

[late hatch]

i have some pretty bad knuckles on my right hand and get rsi if i spam clicking for 15+ mins so i run full auto as a QOL mod

[ivory marsh]

making it a issue for the team

and on lower diff daemon only kills1 player

[frank ether]

new shovel is funy but I prefer the og one

[tiny summit]

Monstronsity you have to deal with. DH can be (most of the time) be avoid

[untold mulch]

I am finding it painfully efficient for crusher packs

[frank ether]

the only reason I run psword on my helbore setup is

[ivory marsh]

but on t5 it can be expected to take down a daemon for a reward. the

[frank ether]

well

I need BM for my bayonet

if only human shovel had BM

[tiny summit]

Shooting in high difficulties also fun 🤓 that's what I was getting at

[untold mulch]

Full auto should be default on some weapons

IV requiring individiaul pulls is stupid

[ivory marsh]

well highest difficulty scarcity mechanic as seen with medicae reduces

[untold mulch]

And the loop continues

[frank ether]

I dont really agree

because we got stims now

[tiny summit]

Maybe that's enough to Fatshark

[frank ether]

and well its not all medicaes that are reduced

[ivory marsh]

but the nerf was before stimms got added

[crude fiber]

playing a normale high intensity for a repair mission and was wondering why my recon had so little ammo and realized its cause theres so few specials that im hardely regening any ammo lol

[untold mulch]

Mid and end event are still full yep

[ivory marsh]

and having 3-4 medica is more worth than your average 2 stimms

[terse idol]

Well, its not the specials

Recons just bad

[frank ether]

well I could make the argument they should REMOVE medicaes because it makes hp management careless

[untold mulch]

Health stimm being worth a medicae because running wounds is for people who have fear

[terse idol]

And you don't gain back alot of ammo

[frank ether]

thats just not fun

[ivory marsh]

of course and they did with the nerfs now unless its the event room you gotta be carefull

[frank ether]

oh I did a mistake 5 minutes into a run so I must suffer for the next 20 is not good game design

[ivory marsh]

not eating dmg is am echanic for higher difficultys

[crude fiber]

nah im comapring to when i use it in high shock or maelstrom

[ivory marsh]

it is a good designe if you get downed you get punished

[frank ether]

this is exactly the game design that drove people insane in mobas lmao

it will lead to uh

[tiny summit]

Half event medicae on damn

[ivory marsh]

and medica is always every 10 min

[ivory marsh]

or 5 if your fast 🙂

[frank ether]

people quitting the lobby on first damage taken is good game design

[ivory marsh]

if you play highest difficulty thats the price you pay for being bad

[terse idol]

Well if your get bad rng you could only get 1 charge

[frank ether]

kekw

[soft blade]

good lawd

[ivory marsh]

no event medicae have always 100%

[terse idol]

Smiley

[frank ether]

I shouldn't engage with bait

[tiny summit]

"Game design" is so weird to consider whether it's good or bad

[terse idol]

Even before

[ivory marsh]

that's why its balanced on HIGHEST difficulty

[frank ether]

but this is quality bait I must admit

[terse idol]

Honey

[frank ether]

its tasty bait

[ivory marsh]

you are just ignorant what difficulty is

[untold mulch]

It is bait? or pure unfiltered opinion?

[soft blade]

alright people vet channel has been quarantined due to an outbreak of brain rot everyone go home and shower

[terse idol]

Why do some medicaids have a missing battery

If its gonna give you 4

Anyways

[untold mulch]

Nurgle has breached #veteran-class

[frank ether]

god I hope not lmao

[untold mulch]

I am half thinking is unfiltered opinion

[frank ether]

I mean gtfo doesnt have medicaes

once again

the superior game

darktide aspires to be

which no one here plays

[ivory marsh]

well it doesnt make sense his points that highest difficulty should have scarcity literally any game on hardcore has that system

so it's a provne fact that difficulty affects ressources

[terse idol]

I mean the game is a game of push and pull

Oh my god you're still going on about ammo

[ivory marsh]

you mean you pull enemys?

[tiny summit]

Psyker that popped in my game alt-f4'd before his knees touched the ground

[ivory marsh]

no medicae

[frank ether]

if you wanted high risk high difficulty gameplay you'd be in gtfo bonking tentacle scouts with a bat

while also bhopping

[crude fiber]

so are we saying there should be more, less, or no medicae?

[ivory marsh]

no?

[frank ether]

coward

[ivory marsh]

they say more ammo more all

[low kelp]

What melee weapon?

[junior needle]

Should remove toughness because it makes the game too easy. Infinitely regenerating health? Trivializes the game.

[ivory marsh]

and I say highest difficulty = less ressources

[untold mulch]

Fr fr

[trim steppe]

goddamn I just had the cleanest HIST of my life, look how little damage the whole team took. I was the scrub who took 342 lmao

[frank ether]

fr fr

[tiny summit]

I like shooting

[untold mulch]

WHY THAT MADE ME CRACK UP

[crude fiber]

just give us 1 hp and 1 toughness. medicae regens that 1 toughness

[frank ether]

I think if you shoot your gun too mucch

it should jam guys

[tiny summit]

I like shovels. Can't go wrong with PS6. Have an Antax I use as well. Probably want something to answer a crusher when they close in

[untold mulch]

I dig it for a shitty weapon

[frank ether]

you have to look for spare barrel for your iLas from scab corpses

psyker peril should be permanent per mission

[low wagon]

which Devil's Claw mark you prefer to pair with Plasma?

[frank ether]

you cant reduce it

[untold mulch]

Also if they explode a Nurgle daemon pops up

[sick cedar]

What we thinking darktiders

[soft blade]

any text on the ogryns screen is scrambled

[frank ether]

I actually want this one

can someone mod this

[untold mulch]

The key to do the scanner for ogryn, should be random

Because ogryn doesnt know what he is doing

[soft blade]

after 3 failed attempts he experiences the gamer rage debuff and just breaks the thing

[frank ether]

no when you press the gamepad touchscreen as oggy it should press like 6 buttons at once

fat fingers

[untold mulch]

It fixes the problem

[tiny summit]

More farcry 2 mechanics in games

[untold mulch]

Far cry 2 was peak

[frank ether]

I should replay it

[untold mulch]

PIECE OF TRASH STOP JAMMING

[frank ether]

I never finished it

cos my childhood pc

would heat up

and fps was low

[untold mulch]

Damn

[frank ether]

the very same pc

died playing crysis

I cant make this shit up

[untold mulch]

F

[frank ether]

It overheated and died

[untold mulch]

😔

It died like it lived

Overworked to hell and back

[iron marten]

Hahaha

Poor PC

[frank ether]

Man it was a bad year

[iron marten]

It’s just a burning memory

[frank ether]

I already had one of those families that think like having pc = your kid will become mass murderer or something

so child me had like 1 month summer allowance to play games and it just fucking dies lmao

[untold mulch]

🫂

[soft blade]

rip

[frank ether]

dw I have more than made up for it by now =w=

[dire olive]

Graia brauto with onslaught is so goofy

[soft blade]

true!

[dire olive]

Just pure unga bunga

magdump crushers

[soft blade]

graia brauto is the funny gun

[dire olive]

no thought only bullet

[soft blade]

head empty mag empty

[frank ether]

I still think agri is the better one for vet personally

but uh

I have brainrot

dont listen to me

I'm playing with exec stance mf and deadshot

[soft blade]

i prefer agri too tbh but graia is just humorous to me

[trim steppe]

agri is the brauto king but they all work, depends if you like big mags

[frank ether]

the thingg is

only agri has precise config

[soft blade]

we have full auto and fuller auto : )

[frank ether]

so agri is quite accurate at the start

compared to other two

[trim steppe]

zealot charge + agri brauto is fun for deleting crushers with full auto

[tiny summit]

Start a community challenge of Exe MF Recon

[dire olive]

who needs accuracy when you have 1000 rounds

[frank ether]

I can do it with brauto but recon scares me

I can do any kind of recon build in premade

but quickplay is different story

[tiny summit]

It wasn't a fun night

[frank ether]

I have suffered for the sins of vet mains

[idle swallow]

Agri brauto makes me feel like a poorly trained insurgent firing an AK

[frank ether]

oh yea

[soft blade]

that’s the charm of it

[frank ether]

deadshot can also ''work'' on recon btw

[iron marten]

I can’t get into braced autoguns tbh, I always like being able to be precise when I need to

[frank ether]

you get like 0.3 seconds of extra crit chance before all your 10 bars of stam vanishes

[soft blade]

the best part about brautos is that you feel like a knuckle dragging moron that was given a gun

without playing ogryn!!

[dire olive]

neuron activation

monkey sees action

[soft blade]

or zealot

!!!

[trim steppe]

Your vet after when you hold the trigger for 1 second on the recon with deadshot

[hearty panther]

staminize me, mother

[iron marten]

This is why I always take duck n dive with deadshot

[frank ether]

I'm finna do it

you cant stop me

deadshot mf recon

do I put exec too or no guys?

decide now

[hearty panther]

infiltrate

[iron marten]

Ye

[soft blade]

[trim steppe]

ye exec

[hearty panther]

30% damage

[tiny summit]

Deadshot gyatto too much for vet stamina

[hearty panther]

and close quarter kill

lean into that shit

[soft blade]

exe stance for maximum humor

[dire olive]

need 3x3 stamina curios

[tiny summit]

Go all in. No balls

[frank ether]

😔

[dire olive]

no Duck n Dive

[frank ether]

ok thats cruel

[dire olive]

[soft blade]

we don’t do stamina round these parts

[frank ether]

fine

[iron marten]

The 0% stamina experience

Make sure to get back into the fight!

[dire olive]

The stunned by poxwalker gameplay

[untold mulch]

Canonical Guard

they havent slept for 3 days

[tiny summit]

Have non-dmg blessings on the recon too

[soft blade]

good lord

[untold mulch]

Sir

Sir

I beg mercy for this lad

Please

[dire olive]

bring a tac axe as backup

[soft blade]

i pray for you and anyone unfortunate enough to queue up with this abominable build

[iron marten]

Dclaw would be funnier tbh, imagine parrying at 0% stamina

[radiant cargo]

what's the general difference between the infantry las guns? just rate of fire trade for damage?

[dire olive]

p much

[untold mulch]

Pretty much

Ia is consideres the best in general

[soft blade]

fire rate and damage

[trim steppe]

speedload sustained fire recon run lmao

[soft blade]

for the most part

[untold mulch]

IV is a pain in the ass

XII fell from grace, but is solid

[soft blade]

slower equal more damage faster equal less damage

[dire olive]

MG12 is lowest DPS but has nice 1 shots

[frank ether]

bruh I cant get onslaught now you have doomed me

[soft blade]

suffer

[untold mulch]

"Recon aint so bad" build

[dire olive]

You can always go CQK to get it

[frank ether]

here we go again

[trim steppe]

Recons work great if you hate yourself

[radiant cargo]

been using the XII . the LA the next step" down from it, right? higher rate of fire buyt lower damage?

[soft blade]

a moment of silence please

[untold mulch]

Lies, it doesnt work great for me

[trim steppe]

Ia is probably best, the 4 is close, the XII is the worst but still good

[frank ether]

I should record this game probably

so others can learn from the errors of my ways

what melee to pair this trainwreck with

I have zero melee talents

[dire olive]

tac axe

[soft blade]

a monument for those those to come after

[untold mulch]

Knife

[frank ether]

would it be cheating to get psword

[untold mulch]

Monument to Vet sins

[frank ether]

I'll do knife dont tempt me

[radiant cargo]

la is the "middle" one, right? XII is higher damage lower ROF, the 4 is high ROF but lowest daamage, with la in between?

[untold mulch]

do it

[frank ether]

hdkgs

[untold mulch]

KARK IT

WE BALL

aqpologize to the QP team

[trim steppe]

gotta do recon and achyls caxe

[frank ether]

I probably will have to

[frank ether]

achyls is pretty cool actually

well its a combat axe how bad can it be

[trim steppe]

it is, but not super versatile

[neat stratus]

New pfp I made myself

[radiant cargo]

what's the rule of thumb on las gun blessings these days?

[terse idol]

Deadly accutate

Head hunter

Done

[trim steppe]

ghost can be fun sometimes too

[dire olive]

Imma be real if any post apocalyptic culture can read that pretentious drivel they can probably read "toxic waste gtfo"

[radiant cargo]

how high does deadly accurate go? III or IV?

[dire olive]

IV

[untold mulch]

Headshot fishing

Kinda cringe ngl /jk

[soft blade]

average aim in that general area enjoyer

[untold mulch]

I am too busy to aim

[trim steppe]

all blessings go to 4 except a rare few that only have 1 tier. Deadly accurate is one of the former

[untold mulch]

I got heretics to kill

[neat stratus]

Auto weapons be like

[untold mulch]

I could carefully land a headshot

or shoot 3 shots that probably will land somewhere on target 🗿

[soft blade]

Brauto my beloved

[dire olive]

Strongest headshot weapon user
Weakest braced weapon user

[radiant cargo]

alright. I just replaced salvo with headhunter, and the gun came with deadly accurate. I've got a 20% damage flack, and 8.5% reload; what should I replace the reload speed with? eliets, specialists, or another armor type?

[untold mulch]

maniac?

[soft blade]

maniac

[untold mulch]

maniac

[radiant cargo]

are the heavyu armor mauler maniacs also? or just the ones with all the green vials sticking out of their backs?

[soft blade]

flakiac is chapter 1 verse 1 of the lasgun bible

[trim steppe]

flak/maniac is almost always the right choice

[untold mulch]

Like corrosive in WF, when in doubt

slap it

[dire olive]

Maulers are Flak body Carapace head

[soft blade]

flamers ragers and mutants are all maniacs

[trim steppe]

both ragers are maniac, maulers are what rogue said

[untold mulch]

Maulers are carapace on head

except very specific builds, you should bodyshot

You can test in psykanium which armor they have

[white minnow]

only the dreg rager is maniac

[untold mulch]

is stated

[white minnow]

the scab rager is flak

[soft blade]

[neat stratus]

Aight Im bored, what cursed crap should I photoshop in this game?

[soft blade]

i forgor 💀

[low wagon]

playboy grimoire

[terse eagle]

i wanna like the apripina revolver but i feel like either the cone of fire isnt tight enough or the recover of the aim isnt fast enough or blooms too much per shot

[zealous wyvern]

the grimoire is already cursed though

[radiant cargo]

right. pop'em in'a dome, unlessen they's maula's

[neat stratus]

Thats good, I was more along the lines of like weapons though

[zealous wyvern]

give veteran a flamer

[torn root]

sad to comback to DT and all we have a re some small hotfixxes

yikes

[zealous wyvern]

because that is apparently too cursed to be in the game

[dire olive]

dumpstat time

[untold mulch]

I can expect a new shovel by february

2025

[torn root]

lmao

[untold mulch]

Small indie plis understand

[neat stratus]

Like bullpupping a plasma gun, that kind of stuff

[zealous wyvern]

do it

[untold mulch]

Unbullpup the Accatran

[zealous wyvern]

sounds funny

[neat stratus]

Heheheha

[untold mulch]

fuck you, unbullpups your Recon

[zealous wyvern]

maybe its good now

[untold mulch]

Mayeb FS will pay attention then

[zealous wyvern]

idk why but games always seem to think that bullpups deal less damage

[untold mulch]

Bullpup-less heathens

[zealous wyvern]

is that like

the truth?

[untold mulch]

when the thing is having more barrel per less space

[untold mulch]

nope

[zealous wyvern]

strange

[untold mulch]

Is just weird gamey shit

[zealous wyvern]

every game i play pretends that bullpups are light ordnance rifles

[soft blade]

https://tenor.com/view/competitive-shitting-shitting-kitten-competive-shitting-gif-26316760

[untold mulch]

The thing about bullpup concept

is having full length rifle barrel

in overall length of, idk a carbine

[zealous wyvern]

with less recoil

or what was it

[untold mulch]

Pretty sure recoil doens't work like that

[zealous wyvern]

i dont remember

[terse idol]

It like games being like

silencers reduce damage

[untold mulch]

If thye have subsonic ammo, kinda?

[zealous wyvern]

ok i know why

the recoil would be lower

because you hold the gun in the middle instead of the back

so the barrel doesnt shoot up as much

i mean the recoil force is still full

[untold mulch]

Maybe is a handling issue fair

[zealous wyvern]

but your aim would wander less

also, its for close quarters combat

[radiant cargo]

biggest "bad" thing about bulpups is the triggers will almost always be subpar compared to a regular rifle, becase you have to have more mechanism and connector bars between the trigger and hammer

[zealous wyvern]

so the barrel not standing out as much is good too

[radiant cargo]

that's really it

[untold mulch]

Bullpup and traditional mag positioning is a constant war

[zealous wyvern]

bullpup is so your barrel doesnt poke out

[untold mulch]

which imo, in a fight doesn't quite matters much

but I am a armschair critic here

can't have guns here in spain, or at least no the cool ones

[untold mulch]

Bullpup is good for troops that reguarly should do CQB or are in vehicles a lot

[dire olive]

tbf this isn't an issue if you train soldiers on bullpup

[radiant cargo]

it's been the least of the issue with any modern bullpup. their failings have generally been flaws or sub par issues that have nothing to do with being "bullpup" just design elements the makers chose that let the guns down

[terse idol]

I mean TO BE FAIR the m4 is like tried and teue

[untold mulch]

Look in my opinion, Bullpup is great

I try to be ambivalent so AR nerds don't kill me

[soft blade]

too late check outside your window

[untold mulch]

They have had 50 fucking years to make it tried and true

[untold mulch]

wdy oh fuc

[radiant cargo]

bullpups also traditionaly have no good way to try and seat the bolt if it doesn't go forward all the way, depending on the typoe of charging handle used.

[dire olive]

They're AR nerds, what are they gonna do, make another post about their home defense fantasies?

[untold mulch]

Mhmm, at this point it just requires a few more mainstream good bullpups

[untold mulch]

[zealous wyvern]

my horribly drawn

graphic

of why bullpup is better for cqb

the barrel stands out less

[radiant cargo]

nah, doesn't come into play for that

[zealous wyvern]

shame

i thought i was onto something

[untold mulch]

Tbf, in breaching a room

I think

is a factor

[zealous wyvern]

the barrel standing out seems annoying

personally

[terse idol]

Just uh

Don't stand by the wall so fucking close

[radiant cargo]

barrel length is a big part of being mounted in vehicles though. thyat's the main draw of a shorter barrel

[zealous wyvern]

well if you wanna go around the wall

you will at some point

[untold mulch]

it is annoying if you entering

if you standing like that

[zealous wyvern]

go that close to the wall

[untold mulch]

is your fault

[terse idol]

You're not gonna turn a corner like that

Cut the pie

[zealous wyvern]

it was a VERY simple graphic

ok

[untold mulch]

but when breaching, the barrel length is gonna fuck you up

[zealous wyvern]

calm down

the graphic was literally just to show

[terse idol]

I know

[zealous wyvern]

the barrel stands out less

[untold mulch]

No, htis is vet chat

[zealous wyvern]

this isnt about turning a corner

[zealous wyvern]

this is about any situation ever where you dont want your barrel showing

also it would hinder your maneuvering in tight corridors

[crude fiber]

1 stam short of max stamina

[terse idol]

Take an SMG, barrel discipline

Boom

[zealous wyvern]

ww troopers used their shovels instead of bayonets because bayonets were annoying to wield in a trench

[hearty panther]

thats dump just stuff the rifle down your pant leg

[zealous wyvern]

smg has less power doesnt it?

[untold mulch]

We all know the peak gun design

[zealous wyvern]

or why else would ppl not just bring smgs

[untold mulch]

You may not like it

but this is peak performance

SG1 fans rise up

[zealous wyvern]

i mean it does show my point

[terse idol]

P90

Lesto

[hearty panther]

SG:1 was pretty baller

[zealous wyvern]

barrel doesnt stand out

at all

thats handy i bet

[terse idol]

Then you take a carbine

[untold mulch]

SG1 and Atlantis was my jam

[zealous wyvern]

a bullpup is supposed to reduce barrel length while keeping the power

[untold mulch]

IN THE MIDDLE OF MY BACKSWING!?

[zealous wyvern]

if you bring a non-bullpup with less barrel

its obviously gonna have less barrel as a whole

[untold mulch]

What is that

[zealous wyvern]

while the bullpup keeps the barrel effect

just bring an smg is not a good argument here

[radiant cargo]

I would GLADLY have one of those if it wasn't a legal pain in the ass and expensive to feed

[zealous wyvern]

obviously you can bring one

theyre good

made for this

[untold mulch]

SMG sadly are losing relevance with armor

For military use at least

[zealous wyvern]

but if you want to bring a rifle to a tight place

bullpup might be the way to go

[untold mulch]

I want to get an Airsoft one

[zealous wyvern]

its like fighting in a tight hallway while wielding a longsword
its annoying

[untold mulch]

In my opinion, yeah

[zealous wyvern]

reducing the clunky size is always a good thing

[untold mulch]

also to my knowledge

[crude fiber]

other silly fire rate weapon

[zealous wyvern]

im willing to learn that its not the point of bullpup but i honestly refuse to believe its not an advantage of it

[untold mulch]

bullpup is heavier on the back

easier to carry, because physics

[untold mulch]

Thanks

I hate it

[zealous wyvern]

easier to carry, easier to aim, easier to hide, easier to turn in tight spaces, keeps the power of a full rifle unlike an smg

[untold mulch]

You did a 10/10 job to make me hate so hard this

[neat stratus]

Barrel is also lengthened a little to compensate for the unbullpup

[zealous wyvern]

is my theory on it

[untold mulch]

Noice

[terse idol]

I mean okay

If the argument is

[neat stratus]

Ok but the trigger

[zealous wyvern]

valid

absolutely

[terse idol]

The barrel is sticking out in cqc

[untold mulch]

Just pull harder smh

[zealous wyvern]

im not saying bullpups are good

im serious

i dont care about bullpups

[terse idol]

You're in close enough range a carbine would be gkod

[neat stratus]

And lose accuracy

[terse idol]

Whatever

[zealous wyvern]

i dont own guns and never will

[neat stratus]

[untold mulch]

Skill Issue

[zealous wyvern]

i just think that its weird to deny such a factual circumstance

[crude fiber]

whats does a longer barrel do for a lasgun anyway?