veteran-class

[raw steppe]

There is no argument you dipshit

[serene bough]

Only semiauto worth using the mod for is the mg4 and laspistol

[raw steppe]

I personally dont use mods that affect gameplay because I think its negative for my gameplay

[tall torrent]

I think what he’s trying to say is that he finds the gameplay altering mods cheesy for him

[raw steppe]

You can feel free to use it

[tall torrent]

And he’s just wording it badly

[raw steppe]

If you want

[finite imp]

Yes there is. And with mud slinging I will no longer be engaging in your argument as you are now arguing from a point of emotion and your perspective is entrenched

[soft blade]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[finite imp]

If you'd like to revisit the subject with an open mind I'm down

But calling me a dipshit only harms you

[raw steppe]

What open mind lmao, this is my decision

You have your opinion and i have mine

Neither of us are wrong

[finite imp]

Okay. And we have given you nothing be respect

[hollow ibex]

yeah not like an open mind is going to come from him

"respect my decision, but i won't respect yours"

[finite imp]

Neither of us are wrong but you're a dipshit

Ok

[hearty panther]

It's true, I think modders are lesser people.

[serene bough]

But are they heretics

[hearty panther]

Absolutely.

[finite imp]

Smh

[tiny summit]

I think people are taking it too personal for someone to see a mod that can affect gameplay to an extent as "cheating" however light it can be.

[serene bough]

Sorry, hereteks

[raw steppe]

Yar

[tall torrent]

Cheesy maybe
Cheating ehh blurry line

[finite imp]

So you agree with us

[hearty panther]

Nah. Not blurry to me.

[raw steppe]

What am i agreeing to again?

[hearty panther]

You can call it an accessibility function, and you aren't wrong. But it isn't one that the game has, and the debate of whether it should is a separate one (I think it should).

[hollow ibex]

brb omw to install third person mod just to piss dis off

[finite imp]

If you aren't even trying to read then you're arguing from bad faith brother :/

Cmon

Let's just talk about something else

[serene bough]

I mean, it should be and mods fill that gap

That's why the mod is enabled and not restricted

[raw steppe]

I mean i dont think the mod being allowed means its not cheesy to be fair

[dire palm]

Question from someone who is only now getting into veteran after maining zealot and psyker: what are the best curios to increase my survivability a little? I can output a lot of damage but a grunt can still down me in just a few hits. Like, should I get +toughness or +health curios

[tall torrent]

Game needs more accessibility options

Like maybe allow plasma gun heat FX to be turned down just like Psyker’s peril FX

[tiny summit]

I think full auto does change gameplay to an extent from the design decisions that fatshark made. I don't agree with those decisions and it's a PvE game. I already shot as fast as possible with the semi-auto guns, downloaded the full auto mod. Kinda like it and don't really care as it's a PvE game.

[hearty panther]

A mix of both until you're comfortable with whatever.

[raw steppe]

Like for example, autoswing and hp bars affect gameplay in a much more drastic way

[tall torrent]

+3 stamina
+16~17% toughness
+20~21% health

[raw steppe]

But they are allowed

[serene bough]

Even if its cheesy, I'd prefer the cheese to exist if it means people who would ordinarily struggle or suffer playing DT are now enabled to play a game they enjoy more comfortably

[raw steppe]

I personally only use mods that improve UI

[dire palm]

Okay cool, I do love my stamina curios and I can see how it would be useful on vet

[raw steppe]

Sure and thats why i think its fine for other ppl tp use them

[tiny summit]

Toughness and stamina. Health curios don't scale as well on Vet and Psyker vs Zealot and Ogryn

[serene bough]

"Suffer" may be a bit dramatic, but the point remains

[hearty panther]

ngl i was tremendously disappointed with the amount of players i saw fold in a matter of days and downlaoded the spideysense mod

[raw steppe]

I personally wont because i dont want to usr mods that affect gameplay

[hollow ibex]

but you call it cheating, interesting 🤔

[hearty panther]

that shit is silly

[dire palm]

Thanks bros

[tall torrent]

Balanced mix of three is pretty good, could go with 1 toughness + 2 health or 2 toughness + 1 health tho

[raw steppe]

Well yeah, seeing enemy hp bars

[dire palm]

Having fun clicking heads, vet is a good time

[raw steppe]

As an example

[serene bough]

Yeah, I dont think your view is unreasonable either

[finite imp]

You need to reword your original argument. SOME mods are cheating

[raw steppe]

Is not something that you can do without the mods and changes the game drastically

[hollow ibex]

i can get thinking that spidey senses, third person or hp bars is cheating

[dire palm]

After wishing my team would take out all the trash mob shooters in the distance I can finally be the change I wish to see in the world

[hollow ibex]

but full auto?

[raw steppe]

Idk man

[tall torrent]

He just worded it really badly
He finds them too cheesy for him so he won’t use, that’s it

[crude fiber]

i uses it specifically for bursters, everything else is disabled cause nothing else has their audio drowned out or spawn 5 feet in front of you around a corner

[raw steppe]

The line is gonna be different for everyone

I put the line at affecting gameplay

Other ppl are gonna draw it elsewhere

[tiny summit]

I feel less so about Health bars for mobs. Bosses and Monstronsities get Health bars. Bars for mobs is just extra to me. But you can make the argument that they didn't want you to know how close a group is close to death.

[serene bough]

Personally, if a mod is allowed then it's free game to use

[finite imp]

Yeah. I don't take the insults personally either tbh, I think he just got rubbed a little raw

[serene bough]

Health bars are an obvious advantage, but I see it more as playing with training wheels as opposed to actively cheating the games mechanics

[tall torrent]

As long as their mods don’t accidentally get me booted from the game I’m ok with anything

[raw steppe]

Wasnt there that chinese guy

Who was using a mod

[crude fiber]

hp bars also lets you see if theres an enemy in crowd you might have missed i stopped using hp bars when i saw a dog i would have missed in some fire and felt cheesy

[raw steppe]

That gave him infinite grenades

😹

[finite imp]

Well yes that is 100 percent cheating

Hacks are different than mods

[raw steppe]

No iirc it was up on nexus for lile a day

Hahaha

[finite imp]

What happened to it

[serene bough]

Well if it were a mod, it definitely crossed a line that got it to be removed

I.e. cheating the game's resource economy

[raw steppe]

I think the author took it down

For obvious reasons

[finite imp]

What reasons exactly I'm kind of stupid

[serene bough]

Infinite grenades is cheating

[tall torrent]

Infinite grenades lol

[finite imp]

Right which would make it not a mod. It would be a hack

[tiny summit]

Well of course it's free game to use. Fatshark aren't gonna be reviewing everything all the time. As that would be judging whether or not one is allowed and create a controversy about which ones are allowed or not and keeping up to date on mods added. That 1 mod that tracks what specials have spawned I definitely would argue as "cheating" and not just an accessibility setting.

[serene bough]

The counter point would be that you hear the audio cue whenever a special spawns anyways

[crude fiber]

😔

[tiny summit]

The counter point that enemies should also surprise you if you don't notice them

I think having a tracking board of enemies gives way too much information

[finite imp]

The fundamental difference between a hack and a mod is what it does to the game. It's all just code

[soft blade]

[serene bough]

Its definitely discussion worthy

But you know, I still would think audio cues are enough

[hollow ibex]

when they work

[tiny summit]

For the hearing impaired, I would argue could be more elegantly done over "here's a tracker of everything out to kill you now"

[raw steppe]

To be fair idk if all games need to be accessible for everybody

[hearty panther]

I get that the audio levels got a bit fucked, but you can absolutely always still hear the things that are coming, it's just harder to pick out if you weren't already focused on listening to them.

[finite imp]

My friend plays this with hearing impairment and uses a subtitle mode to help him

Mod

Its frustrating for him because he loves this game

[hearty panther]

Like presently it's when you're surrounded by Elites that you suddenly have a hella hard time hearing bursters and muties running towards you

[raw steppe]

But also, i dont think most the ppl who are using the mod thst tracks enemies

Are doing it because they are impaired

I think most ppl are doing it because it gives them a gameplay advantage

[finite imp]

You're probably right but banning it only hurts people who need it

[serene bough]

Im more lenient about such advantages in this game because everyone is on the same team

[raw steppe]

Yeah i mean no need to ban it

[tiny summit]

Subtitles of a spawn noise is far more elegant than a tracking board

[serene bough]

And its not as if such mods are going to save an auric mission if people are playing like literal ogryn brains

[finite imp]

Yeah no I think even he is in the idea that would be cheating

[serene bough]

I do think at a certain point games should stop being concerned about accessibility though

Because ultimately you do need to use certain game skill/knowledge to win

[hearty panther]

Yeah good luck elevating a normal player to a 300APM Starcraft player or w/e

[slow spade]

with enough drugs we can

brb forcing all randoms to use crack before a Sedition match

[finite imp]

Just one more mountain of cocaine and I'm doen

Done

[serene bough]

Inject all 4 stims at once

[next furnace]

Bolter never died

[tiny summit]

Where's my purple warp dust stim?

[serene bough]

What is going on here

[soft blade]

good god

[next furnace]

yes

[tall torrent]

This is techno-heresy

[next furnace]

im Commisar Hadron

[soft blade]

tech heresy

to the extreme

prepare to be lobotomized

[umbral garnet]

Some vet just told me "You ain't ready for this" on a normal Damnation run after I got netted on 200 ping

While man was using Plasma gun

[finite imp]

You just aint ready my boy

[umbral garnet]

Sure, it was some of my more

Worse

[crisp oak]

You aint ready for this

[umbral garnet]

Performance.

😭

[finite imp]

you aint ready for the 3000 ping

[umbral garnet]

True

Never will be.

[finite imp]

low ping is cheating imo

[soft blade]

true

[tiny summit]

Nets aplenty in aurics and nobody says shit in my games.

[soft blade]

run a VPN on your next auric run if you’re a real servant of the emperor

[strange grove]

thx to whomever strongly recommended the agbrauto, this thing destroys

[crude fiber]

you got soft hands brother

[umbral garnet]

Yeah cus that's Auric

Tbf, that was like

The third time I got netted that game so

💀

Bad game all around, I just found it patronising that a plasma gun user judged me

[tiny summit]

Only running plasma on my vape build.

[light ore]

knife

only bad part is now i can't harvest uncanny 4

[stiff merlin]

need

more

plasteel

[tidal rapids]

Don't we all?

[hearty panther]

well

not really

[tidal rapids]

Discounting the people who got Hadron's blessing to carry omnnisiah roll weapons

[hearty panther]

nah, way easier trick

just no life the game

[crude ermine]

I just need a lil more just for the affigri around shotgun

Then I have no need for any plasteel

[wanton dawn]

Made myself a "melee" build but it is more hybrid, it slaps and it is meta as hell

Turn out plasma is very good to abuse weapon specialist/agile engagement

[hearty panther]

agile engagement is cracked

that entire area around the aura even

[tidal rapids]

For the real guardsman experience, insist on nothing less than a lasgun.

[slow spade]

I have so many weapons that staying in my ranged weapon menu eventually crashes

truly the Brunt experience

[visual island]

So psyker main with a question for you vets. How many of you have the penance for not taking damage in a mission?

[slow spade]

I do but I have 600 hours on 99% Vet only

so I better lol

[light ore]

i got it while playing with a vraks

[bitter turtle]

That's not bc you get distracted

[light ore]

wasn't even thinking about it, the notification just popped up after it was over

[bitter turtle]

People have silent specials recorded

Mutants are never a problem

Poxburster seems to be the worst

[light ore]

i kinda just sit back and ignore hordes on vet tho if my teammates can handle it

[bitter turtle]

Sometimes I've had them literally jump at me while still being quiet lol

Probably sound channel issue

[light ore]

also you just shout if you ever feel remotely threatened

[tawny glen]

after millions spent finally

[slow spade]

oh very nice c:

brb holding X on it UwU

[tawny glen]

[rigid whale]

can I have it

[tawny glen]

the last piece was t4 brumo

[light ore]

muties will scream the entire time you're in an elevator

[tawny glen]

i spent a million just looking for that to incresae weakspot damage from 12% to 15%

[light ore]

multiple muties at once even

[soft blade]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-mutant-warhammer-40k-darktide-mutant-gif-1118053842768353546

the single loudest thing you’ve ever heard

[light ore]

we serious sam now

[tidal rapids]

Just another day in the guard, on malesteom

[strange grove]

I wish we had access to the heavy sword 6

[slow spade]

I want Kickback

[tawny glen]

use a manstopper kant

with deadeye

it's a budget kickback

[strange grove]

If I had neighbors I disliked, Id loop this on high volume when I'm not home

[tidal rapids]

What I want is what those scab gunners got

[soft blade]

kid named ogryn:

[lilac eagle]

For the life of me I cannot remember what they sound like lmao

[atomic zephyr]

aaaaAAAAAAAaaaaAAAAAUgh

HAAAAaaaaaAAAAAA

[crude ermine]

Ah we're screaming

Splendid

AAAAA AAAAA
AAAAUGH

AAAA

AAAAAAAAAAA

[atomic zephyr]

thud UUUUGH

[light ore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTnnHy7hfs

[crude ermine]

serious Sam mentioned

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[light ore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDlI6itmr34

[wild summit]

I start to feel like that shout is not to good, but that the other talents need buffs honestly

i dont see much reason to run anything but shout for auric maelstrom

[white minnow]

the power level of players is too high at the moment, so nerfs are more preferred than buffs

[wild summit]

personally i want bufffs to both, they arent really ... that good comparebly

shout doesnt feel op

it feels strong yes

but not op imho

[light ore]

shout is both too strong and also favorably positioned on the talent tree, which is a big thing

[white minnow]

well, if it's strong, then why does it need to be buffed

[crude ermine]

Alrighty new alarm has been set

[light ore]

infiltrate is honestly comparable, just more expensive

exe could probably use a rework more than a buff

[crude ermine]

My roommate is gonna get fucking pissed isn't she

[wild summit]

maybe making it fair to shout by making relentless and enhanced target priority for the executioner stance and making low profile and hunters resolve base for infiltrate

i mean if you go exe stance, you are gonna take relentless basically

dont see any serious player not taken both 100% of the time

and infiltrate is suicide without the low profile and hunters resolve

[light ore]

? infiltrate literally replenishes your toughness and makes you invincible for 8 seconds

just baseline

[soft blade]

infiltrate is fine it’s just positioned badly in the tree and requires a pretty fat point investment

[light ore]

infiltrate is mostly held back by being on the opposite side of the tree as surivalist, and being on the same side as smokes

[wild summit]

smokes do need utility buffs tbf

i am merely looking at it from auric maelstrom perspective

[soft blade]

smokes are another problem entirely

[wild summit]

so yeah i know every keystone is good in none auric missions

but in the sights of auric maelstrom

[light ore]

i'm not sure who you're responding to

baseline assumption is auric malestrom

[wild summit]

i mean klepto, as he says infiltrate is fine

it just doesnt do enough imo

[soft blade]

it is

[light ore]

i also think it's fine

[soft blade]

as an ability it works fine

[light ore]

it's slightly worse than voc imo, because voc is overtuned

it's mostly just not taken cause the first half of the vet talent tree is fucked up

[wild summit]

i mean i need 1 - 2 keystones to be good, shout needs none to be good 1 to be amazing

[soft blade]

it’s just VoC is both point efficient and objectively stronger

[light ore]

and it got the short end of the stick positioning wise

[soft blade]

VoC is the issue

[light ore]

survivalist as well

[wild summit]

thats another issue

i feel like bottom is WAY to cluttered with good choices and the top is empty with mostly shitty choices

[soft blade]

literal 2 point investment for one of the strongest abilities in the game that also coincides with the majority of veterans meta tree picks

[wild summit]

field improv is always warping everything in the game

[light ore]

it's literally just 2 problematic nodes that are SO problematic they warp the entire tree

which is actually otherwise very good

[soft blade]

the real stinker in vets line up atm is exe stance more than anything

[wild summit]

i think if we put field improve on the right tree, we would force some variance

like legit remove the +1 nade

its a noob trap

and put field improv in there

[raw steppe]

Idk just remove ammo aura

Is the real problem

[soft blade]

true

[wild summit]

for field improve to be worth, it would need to be 100% more nades capacity for grenadier to be good

even then i would not pick grenadier

like 100% more nades and 50% more damage could make grenadier nice

[tranquil bronze]

This figure I got is only making me want proper Scion armor even more

[wild summit]

but demolition stockpile and field improve just make grenadier look like a troll pick

[wild summit]

maybe 5% more weakspot damage to team?

idk 🥲

something that makes sense as a sharpshooter vet

or less spread and sway for team

something something

[light ore]

kant users seething

[wild summit]

[raw steppe]

The purpose of ammo aura can stay its the numbers that need tuning

From
On elite/special kill, all teammates get 1% ammo refund

Into

On elite kill with weakspot, the person who kills get 1% ammo back

[wild summit]

imo making it less than 1% would be bad, so maybe a cooldown?

oh

i mean

that wouldnt do anything or little on maelstrom

[raw steppe]

It would lmao

[wild summit]

like you should always weakspot hit, its gonna be a nerf, but not like a substantial one i feel like

[raw steppe]

It would reduce the ammo coming in from ammo aura by 75%

[wild summit]

i honestly think people headshot more than 25% times

maybe i am just lookin at my own performance

[raw steppe]

Read it again lol

[wild summit]

[raw steppe]

75% is a reference to something else

[wild summit]

oh god

ok

hmm

how about 1% and half of that to allies? :p

[raw steppe]

No

Lol

[wild summit]

just not sure if that would be to much

do not have obviously the exact numbers

[raw steppe]

I think that brings it in line with 3% dmg

And 5% ms

LOL

[wild summit]

5% damage but i hear you

hm ..

i suppose it would

tbf people sleep on the move speed

but that might be due to the ammo talent

for being just that good

[wet elk]

shaterring impact good on plasma?

[terse eagle]

has anyone else had problems while doding and shooting where your dodge barely moves you?

[ivory marsh]

just remove scav aura

and implement it as either a core mechanic of all chars

or dont have it at all

[white minnow]

probably not letting your dodges refresh

[terse eagle]

ah ok that would make snese

[terse idol]

hmm positioned bad?

[white minnow]

a weapon gets some # of efficient dodges

[ivory marsh]

install the ui mod it can show you how many dodges you have in total/ left

[terse idol]

It has what it wants on the right side

With Agile engagement

[white minnow]

and once you run out of those, you start tapping into inefficient dodges with a reduced distance and longer cooldown

[terse idol]

Also smoke is eh

[white minnow]

the dodge refresh cooldown timer is 0.85 seconds

[raw steppe]

I dont think fundamentally allowing people to shoot more as a build with vet is a bad idea

[terse idol]

Not the literaly worse thing but could be better

[terse eagle]

ok ill be more careful then thanks

[raw steppe]

It just needs to be tuned properly

[white minnow]

yeah it's not explained at all

[ivory marsh]

removed or implement baseline

[white minnow]

the tutorial has been the same since like launch

[raw steppe]

Baseline is dumb af

[ivory marsh]

you cant have such a impactfull aura in a game maaking ammo econemy irrelevant

[tall torrent]

No, worst blessing on plasma by far

[terse idol]

The tutorial even in vt2 didn't tell you about dodge cool down

[ivory marsh]

i prefer the removed one

[raw steppe]

I disagree

[terse idol]

What the tutorial in darktide needs to tell you is

[raw steppe]

I think it is possible to have it exist

[soft blade]

the fact that you don’t need to be the one doing the shooting to get ammo back is my biggest issue with it

[raw steppe]

In the gamr

[terse idol]

That you cannot block overheads

[raw steppe]

It just cant be giving everyone on the team that much ammo

[ivory marsh]

well yes but the issue is you CANT balance it if it's a aura. Instead of a baseline you

[raw steppe]

I think you can balance it lmao

[ivory marsh]

well another idea would be just for yourself

[raw steppe]

Well yeah

[ivory marsh]

it's a lot of IF varieties

therefore just removing the aura is easier or making it baseline

[white minnow]

i'd kill survivalist just to make the balancing problem go away and to avoid tying teamwide ammo economy to the presence of a single class with a particular aura in a lobby

[terse idol]

Well survivalist could just be 0.75% of max ammo

Just give Scavenger as baseline

Then remove and adjust all other aura's

[ivory marsh]

like the current bolter is balanced around the aura

[terse idol]

Or err

Adjust

All other auras

[ivory marsh]

but realisticly before anything happens we might get lucky with smoke grenades being usefull :)))))))))))

[white minnow]

the power level of players certainly isn't in need of buffs so i vote against buffs to auras

[ivory marsh]

yes power creep indeed is to much but the ai director is just laughable I can run trough hi int shock in 17 min in DUOQ

[raw steppe]

This would reduce how much it gives and make it reasonable imo #veteran-class message

[ivory marsh]

the issue is you CANT balance the AMMO drops in the game if there is A POSSIBILITY with a aura

[raw steppe]

Reduces the ammo given by at least 75% while still letting people shoot

[ivory marsh]

it's like a flawed design

[raw steppe]

Well the whole point is to imbalance it lmao

[ivory marsh]

and that's bad gameplay design

[raw steppe]

Allow the vet to have infinite ammo

[ivory marsh]

terrible

[umbral scaffold]

Survivalist bad

[raw steppe]

But dont apply it to the ebtirr team

[umbral scaffold]

I wish it didn't survive

[raw steppe]

I dont think having stuff be useful is bad game design

[ivory marsh]

that could be a idea but doesnt tackle the issue on people shooting at everything and being carried with that aura

[ivory marsh]

????

you cant balance it

with the world drops

that's the issue

[raw steppe]

It does because we tie it to elites only and weakspot kills only

So its essentially giving a more conditional bonus

[ivory marsh]

currently with the ammo drops YOU DONT NEED SCAV at all but HAVING scav means no brain pew pew at everythign

[white minnow]

you can balance ammo regen since the issue is that it's a good amount of ammo per elite/special kill and it's teamwide

[ivory marsh]

that's just as a shitty aura

[raw steppe]

Yes you just need to balance the numbers and make it not teamwide

[white minnow]

tweak some aspects and I think it'll be fine, but at that point I'd just make it a talent rather than an aura

[tiny summit]

What is "bad gameplay design"? Do things need to be "balanced" or should it be "fun" more?

[raw steppe]

Its in line with all other auras in the game

[white minnow]

ideally both

[ivory marsh]

if you can braindead use all your ressources cause you WILL regenerate it and you get A NET WORTH

it is bad

i can literally run plasma any autogun any las gun and just braindead shoot and theoretically never use melee / run out

on the hardest difficulty it isn't sense of URGE

we should NOT forget the power creep we have

[raw steppe]

Yeah i mean nobody is arguing thst it isnt stupid

[umbral scaffold]

I was about to go into details of why I think survivalist is unhealthy

[raw steppe]

But I do think surv can exist in the game as a concept

[umbral scaffold]

But then I realized today is a comfy day

I don't wanna get miffed

[raw steppe]

If it was not team ammo and also more conditional

[ivory marsh]

I feel it is just RUINING the scarcity mechanic of ammo

no managment required

[umbral scaffold]

I am getting a new job soon and just ate a popsicle

[tall torrent]

If it’s an aura it should benefit whole team?

[ripe totem]

vet sucks in melee

he needs surv so he can use his gun more

[ivory marsh]

no your wrong you build wrong

[umbral scaffold]

People who eat popsicles are legally undisturbed

[ivory marsh]

or you are a bad palyer one of those

[raw steppe]

Yep, turn it into an aura that gives the benefit to the killer

Rather than everybody

[ripe totem]

ok so tell me what happens when 5 ragers are up on your butt

which happens a lot

[umbral scaffold]

Ok no I'll get miffed now, fuck the popsicle

[raw steppe]

Instantly reduce the amount gained by 75%

[white minnow]

if only vet had a blitz slot that could deal with rager packs

much to think about

[ivory marsh]

grenades? ranged weapon block heavy attacks from certain weapons like powersword stagger them your ult? voc ? stealth?

[raw steppe]

Smoke grenades pog

[terse idol]

I mean okay

[white minnow]

die

[terse idol]

I think there is still scarcity in the game

[ripe totem]

you only get 2 nades

[terse idol]

I just think like

[umbral scaffold]

Every class dashes back and pulls out the gun

[ripe totem]

you want them for crushers/maulers

[terse idol]

God forbid you can't generate enough of your ammo

[white minnow]

...

[terse idol]

It's why Gunlugger Ogryn's have so much problems

Without a survivalist vet

[tall torrent]

Not that bad but I feel it would make some guns have way worse ammo economy compared to others

[ivory marsh]

yes but no I purposefully ran around 0 ammo today with 1 ammo crate in my pocket

[ivory marsh]

but that's the ogryn weapon being not ammo efficient

[terse idol]

With what gun?

I mean

[ivory marsh]

and the trigger discipline

[tiny summit]

That isn't objective if the goal of a game is to be "fun". People like shooting. I say with the current director behavior where aurics can be cakewalks or trying to murder you from minute 1, is ammo aura kinda dumb? Yea but I'd rather have it than remove it if nothing else changes. Shooting is fun. 3 slot loot boxes will still have nothing in them. Sometimes the director goes 30 gunners and shooters in the open

[terse idol]

It's the issue that some guns

[white minnow]

fun fact: there's another grenade option on the leftmost branch, and you get 3 maximum of them

[raw steppe]

I think that's ok tbh

[terse idol]

I mean some builds

[ivory marsh]

plasma but I could theoretically do it with any weapon by the melee vet playstyle of mien

[terse idol]

Probably need ways to actually generate ammo themselves

[raw steppe]

Make it so marksman style guns benefit from it the most

[white minnow]

also, you have a class melee weapon that can stagger 3 dreg ragers/2 scab ragers

[ripe totem]

the frag grenade that barely touches a rager tho

[terse idol]

I mean, I played an auric damnation yesterday, and I'll tell ya

[ripe totem]

i'd rather run zealot then

[terse idol]

I don't gain 1:1 ammo back

[white minnow]

throw 2 frag grenadees

[umbral scaffold]

Then do

[ivory marsh]

Shooting should be a choice of do I use MY IMPORTANT bullets now or later

[white minnow]

bleed stacks nonlinearly

[terse idol]

You'll still be down ammo

[ripe totem]

if you're using 2 frag grenades to kill a rager pack that just feels like bad economy

[terse idol]

The issue being survivalist is a littllleee

Good

[umbral scaffold]

You can use your gun too

[tall torrent]

Like for starters ogryn rumbler ammo econ would be a lot worse just on the fact that it won’t get the kill on a lot of things compared to some of his other weapons

[ivory marsh]

you only need 1 stun from ANY source to get you out of a bad situation :)))))

[white minnow]

vet has nade regen talents that make it less bad to your economy

[ivory marsh]

it makes ammo econemy redundant

[terse idol]

It's the issue that gun builds need their own source of ammo regen, indepedant of Survivalist Aura

Not really...

Because I still ran pretty low on ammo that game I played yesterday

[tranquil bronze]

It makes the Vraks 7 just slap even more

[terse idol]

And this is saying that another vet was in my game with recon

[ivory marsh]

why can I braindead shoot anything with never PICKING ammo up with any autogun/plasma/revolver shotgun basically ANY gun while playing scav

[ivory marsh]

recon is the exception

[terse idol]

Gun-esque classes like gun lugger or gun psyker do need to be able to generate their own ammo

[white minnow]

and just run a gun that's better at close range or run a melee that stagger ragers or something

[terse idol]

I mean

[ripe totem]

I mean its not just ragers it's more like everything else that runs with it as well

[white minnow]

you have some leeway in your builds to accomodate for ragers, I'm sure

[ivory marsh]

that'S where either the ammo% is baseline baked into everyone

[umbral scaffold]

Gun psyker isn't a class

[terse idol]

Clearly you didn't like, shoot at everything

[tiny summit]

Are we playing VT2 or DT? It's not exactly an interesting choice if you make the incentive to hoard ammo and it becomes VT2 again with sometimes shooting

[ivory marsh]

so if everyone stays alive you get 1% if one dies it's 0.75%

[terse idol]

I had to shoot weakened monstroticites

[white minnow]

then shredder frag grenades then since that'll dink stuff besides crushers

[ripe totem]

btw if you nerf vet ammo when they're kinda crappy as is outside of like two builds everyone is just gonna play stealth zealot with raking fire

[terse idol]

I did run out and low on ammo

[light ore]

like, to cut to the chase, ragers are a dumb enemy that, en masse, most melee options aren't good against

[terse idol]

Destiny, and uh

[light ore]

that doesn't mean that vet melee is bad

[terse idol]

That one thing...

[ivory marsh]

you have so much ammo to shoot trough 2 rooms and find enough ammo to be almost full

that isnt the issue

[terse idol]

I mean it's the "class"

That it's the keystone build

Like Gunlugger

[tiny summit]

I do think survivalist is dumb. But there's a lot more factors than it being dumb

[frank ether]

none of these people play GTFO so I can say none of these people know what they want

[raw steppe]

Yep

And thats the point

[ivory marsh]

you just have to surpress guners and run at them it isnt hard to get closer

[tiny summit]

True!

[frank ether]

also I'd be the first to admit surv is grossly overperforming and never needed a buff

[raw steppe]

We make it not give infinite ammo to everyone

Ans rebalance the game around that

[white minnow]

ehhhhhhh

[terse idol]

Uh

[ripe totem]

gunners can push you back now

[terse idol]

Hard disagree

[tiny summit]

Director drops can be fickle and if you deny this, you are lying

[terse idol]

Ammo vet do need to actually be nerfed

[white minnow]

it'll be a nightmare to balance around an aura that has a highly variable effect depending on your teammates

[terse idol]

For I dunno

Extra ammo on the maps

[ivory marsh]

i am not denying everytime I am low on ammo and my team we find a ammo crate

in the next chests

[frank ether]

nerf surv so I can play gunker tbh

[tiny summit]

And the kinds of enemy spawns. Sometimes the director goes "oops all gunners"

[terse idol]

Sometimes you don't though Queenie

[ivory marsh]

it's a typical mechanic for any game

[umbral scaffold]

Are you one of those people that shoots poxwalkers because they deal a lot of damage if you don't dodge or block their attacks?

[terse idol]

It's RNG

[white minnow]

TRUE

[ivory marsh]

that sometimes never happens

[terse idol]

It's not typical

[tiny summit]

Sure buddy. 100% of the time

[terse idol]

It's RNG

[ivory marsh]

it is baked into it

that your rn increases

[terse idol]

No...

It isn't....

[ivory marsh]

if ALL is ammo missing

[terse idol]

I mean it could be!

[ivory marsh]

any game has it

[tiny summit]

Director never is different for you or anybody else

[ivory marsh]

half life has it

[ripe totem]

i've had survivalist and barely made it through with 10 ammo remaining in the red using revolver

[terse idol]

Half life is a single player game

[ivory marsh]

cause your wasting ammo

[ripe totem]

its RNG on what gains you get

[terse idol]

I mean if you dick around hard enough you can run out of ammo in highlife

And there's nothing to "give you back"

[ivory marsh]

any game with ammo pickups have that kind of % system cause that makes the rng fair

[terse idol]

Ammo

[white minnow]

though it's uncertain whether such a system exists in this game

[terse idol]

I can spend ammo to purposefully dump ammo into the wall

And there's no % chance

[ripe totem]

how can I be wasting ammo when I'm consistently landing headshots

[terse idol]

That I'm gonna get it back

[ivory marsh]

it exists otherwise i wouldnt have the bias I need ammo and find always a crate

[ripe totem]

and playing out my brains

[white minnow]

after all, if you're low on ammo, you may tend to search more and that lends itself to a higher chance of finding an ammo crate

[light ore]

kinda feels like bait at this point

[ripe totem]

it does

[terse idol]

Honestly I thought that all the drops were already pre-determined in the map

[umbral scaffold]

You could consistently land less headshots and melee

[ivory marsh]

we never go off parts so its like 20-25 min maelstrom and 17-20 high int its always on the way

[ivory marsh]

no

[trim steppe]

man, took the agri brauto and an antax axe into a HIST with my zealot and got 900k damage

[ivory marsh]

they spawn when you open the chest

[ripe totem]

cool i'll just roll zealot then

[umbral scaffold]

Then do it?

[terse idol]

Do we know that for sure?

[ripe totem]

and do that better

[ivory marsh]

it doesnt make sense

[ripe totem]

ok sure no point playing vet then in that case

[terse idol]

How come?

[ivory marsh]

your suggestion

[white minnow]

it can make sense

[ivory marsh]

it is stupid

[terse idol]

How is it stupid?

[white minnow]

and you haven't seem to have run any statistical analysis on hard numbers

[umbral scaffold]

Nobody is stopping you from playing a class you're more comfortable with

[terse idol]

That the drops are already predetermined?

[ivory marsh]

cause EVERY game usually has that % rng if YOUR TEAM needs any type of thing

[white minnow]

it seems to just be on your vague feelings, so I have a hard time believing you

[terse idol]

No it doesn't

Only games like ours

[ripe totem]

so why are you asking to nerf vet when hes a bit shit anyways

[terse idol]

DRG doesn't

[umbral scaffold]

It's not my fault or anyone else's you suck with vet

[timid otter]

I suspect that ammo crates, medikits dont actually follow a fully randomized system

[terse idol]

You have to find resources

To get ammo back

[white minnow]

cuz he's not shit?

[terse idol]

That resource

Is already baked into the map

You can only have so much Nitra in a single given map

So that means you can only have so much given ammo

[soft blade]

[serene sage]

oh are we talking about vets being shit?

[tiny summit]

There's survivalist. There's ammo drops by the director. There's the kind of enemies the director spawns in any run. There's boxes out of the way to drag a game more. Auric enemy density. Enemy spawns when the team had the audacity to spread out to search all containers. There's a lot of factors into playing how Survivalist is stupid but also still fun

[serene sage]

oh boy

[soft blade]

wtf is even going on

[terse idol]

I mean

[ivory marsh]

wtf you on about

[terse idol]

The game is kinda balanced for Damnation

[ivory marsh]

just cause you are bad

[terse idol]

The perks

[ivory marsh]

a class isnt bad

[terse idol]

Are better for top-tier play

[soft blade]

me and this one dude were talking about infiltrate being decent and now we’re here

[umbral scaffold]

Hurr durr I can't play vet so that means he's a worse zealot

[white minnow]

the on special/elite kill talents are a whole mess of their own

[terse idol]

They get nerfed because they're too effective for damnation

Infiltrate is decent yuh

Even a 0 talent investment

[serene sage]

well people are kinda dog piling on this statement but Vets are arguably the strongest class in the game rn

[ripe totem]

aight im out I just hope fatshark is sensible

[serene sage]

gl fam 🍁

[ivory marsh]

"Vet is bad"

[white minnow]

rip

[terse idol]

Vet is VERY strong

[frank ether]

There is nothing good that will come out of this discussion other than insults hurled around

[umbral scaffold]

More sensible than you

[frank ether]

But I'll just repeat the point that

[tall torrent]

Infiltrate pathing is kind of sad

[wet elk]

who ever said vet is bad

o_O

[terse idol]

yeah

I mean smokes

But it's funny

[frank ether]

none of these people going unga bunga about hoarding ammo being skilled

[tiny summit]

Pretty much. Along with the unreliability of drops in boxes. Many boxes are empty. Even 3 slot boxes. Aurics spam so many enemies that should I just be playing VT2 again because of the amount of ammo you can go through?

[soft blade]

yeah that’s the caveat sadly

[ivory marsh]

btw this was the misison

where we had 2 ammo crates

and didnt drop it

[frank ether]

go play the games with hoarding ammo

[ivory marsh]

with no scav

[terse idol]

okay

[terse idol]

Your teammate hit n early 900 melee kills

Yes...

I uh

[frank ether]

they just want more validation for melee playstyle this is what it comes down to in my eyes

[ivory marsh]

auric doesnt spam much it is literally a empty void

[terse idol]

I see that you guys didn't

[soft blade]

https://tenor.com/view/pizza-delivery-community-fire-gif-5219358

[ivory marsh]

auric feels like damnation time to time

[terse idol]

Use the ammo crates

[tiny summit]

Calling vet shit is a skill issue

[frank ether]

like you're not complaining about psykers having basically infinite ammo

[terse idol]

WAIT how can you say

[ivory marsh]

that was a 31 min mission

[terse idol]

We didn't use the ammo crates

[tall torrent]

Why don’t we just make survivalist only give ammo on melee kills vs elites & specials

[terse idol]

When the 2 other guys you played with

[frank ether]

I don't see anyone complaining about staffs yet

[terse idol]

Had a combined total of 100 ranged kills

Between them

[ivory marsh]

we droppedthem at the end event

i picked up like 5 ammo stashes?

and 5 small ammo

[tiny summit]

Yooooooooooo...whut? Crazy.

[terse idol]

You spend like

[ivory marsh]

and look at my melee dmg?

[terse idol]

I mean

I look at your ranged kills

Your team didn't use that much ammo

You mainly killed via melee

Wdym

[tall torrent]

Zealot has knives that regen on melee elite/special kills and they don’t rly have issues with those

[white minnow]

one of crab's suggestion was to have three ammo regen talents, each down one branch and being related to what the branch does, so I'd be possibly fine with it if it's something like that

[ivory marsh]

i dont understand what you want?

[umbral scaffold]

gm my fellow Scion vets

[terse idol]

No like

[frank ether]

You had low ammo pickups for a patch in P13

it sucked

[terse idol]

Use your gun

[frank ether]

and it got buffed

[terse idol]

For most of the mission

have your team

Be mostly ranged builds

And then come back

[terse idol]

Two of your team had a combined 130 ranged kills between them

[ivory marsh]

mostly ranged builds

look at he ammo spent

[frank ether]

nerfing ammo total cap for guns at least was a disaster

[ivory marsh]

gunlugger with me

[terse idol]

Yeah, that's better

Again that's survivalist talking

[tiny summit]

Wtf are you talking about? Aurics will at times have like non stop spawns even with the team keeping close. The director is randy random from rimworld.

[ivory marsh]

ith no scav

[terse idol]

With no scav

[ivory marsh]

nonstop spawns of things you can kill within 2 seconds

[terse idol]

hmm?

[ivory marsh]

cause of our powercreep

[terse idol]

No survivalist?

I dunno

[ivory marsh]

yeah I dont run

scav

you smartass

[terse idol]

Okay

So uh

[ivory marsh]

that's my whole point

you find enough ammo

[terse idol]

You were ammo efficient

😌

[ivory marsh]

to be comfortable

[terse idol]

Sometimes

It's RNG

[ivory marsh]

no?

[terse idol]

Sometimes you won't find ammo

[ivory marsh]

you always find

[terse idol]

yes?

[tiny summit]

Yea using 3 zealots and 1 vet is poor framing.

[terse idol]

Because I've played games

[ivory marsh]

atleast 1 -2 ammo crates

[terse idol]

Where we played most of the mission

In red ammo

[ivory marsh]

if your missio ntakes 50 min

ofc you will run out :))))))

[terse idol]

It didn't but go off

[trim steppe]

sometimes the map just doesnt give you ammo for like half the match and then gives you 3 crates at the end

[tall torrent]

Idk I think having survivalist only work for melee elite/special kills doesn’t sound that terrible for a bandaid fix until there’s a more well rounded overhaul

[trim steppe]

if you live that long

[light ore]

this would be cool, one for headshot kills, one for melee kills, one for uh, forcibly injecting your teammates with stims?

[ivory marsh]

lol never you find small dips all the way

[tiny summit]

Or they put the ammo/med crate in that one corner you usually ignore

[white minnow]

hell yeah, reward involuntary drug injections

[soft blade]

[ivory marsh]

but here is my ammo econemy with scav

[soft blade]

some heroin for you, and some ammo for me !!!

[umbral scaffold]

Giving homies toughness

[trim steppe]

i mean sure, but what if you play with 3 ammo hungry randos instead of 3 staff psykers? scav just evens out RNG a lot

[umbral scaffold]

Suddenly born leader is meta

[ivory marsh]

basuul on the scoreboard

eats 10000x ammo

[frank ether]

I just want to avoid sharing ammo spawns with 40 IQ zealot players

[ivory marsh]

and i let him get it all

he consumes liek for 3 people

but we get good along

[frank ether]

if they give me ammo passives for ranged vet tree

I'd take that

[ivory marsh]

obv if your team doesnt care how oyur ammo is

[junior needle]

According to whomst

[white minnow]

at least even in that scenario, it's unlikely they'll cover all of the sidepaths

[frank ether]

dont want ammo aura anyways

[white minnow]

there's always ammo down sidepaths and you can shlerp it up

[ivory marsh]

yes yes yes!

[tall torrent]

Born leader is ok with gloryhunter plasma
Otherwise it’s not good

[tiny summit]

I think shooting is fun. Survivalist is funny and could probably use a nerf. Atm it's probably more fun to keep it in. Lot more moving parts are needed over "remove survivalist".

[ivory marsh]

if you play the hardest difficulty limited ressource should STYAY limited ressources

dont play hardest difficulty

if you want to shoot anything which walks

[umbral scaffold]

Me when the middle aura becoms ammo regen on team regen

[tiny summit]

Me. I'm the Born Leader meta flag bearer

[trim steppe]

scav isnt required but its good enough that it pretty much always helps over the other choices.

[umbral scaffold]

[trim steppe]

cuz it LETS you spam

not that you need to

[junior needle]

🤨

[ivory marsh]

it basically makes your ammo econemy so good look at my 2 screenshots in comparios with scav and without with scav aura i took 2 stashes 1 small one and most likely 1 unncessary ammo crate dip

[light ore]

the year is 2025. psykers are fighting over disrupt destiny kills. zealots fighting over knife kills. vetrans are jamming syringes up the ogryn's ass. no one has picked up a nade spawn in six months

[frank ether]

right now my helbore can go ammo neutral with all of the ammo passives in scab melee no ammo

[terse idol]

Well honestly just the 1 scteenshot

[frank ether]

and so can psykers

so my question is

[terse idol]

Since one of your screen shots nobody used ranged

[ivory marsh]

dude i dont have to send you my library of screenshots cause you dont understand how this game works

[tiny summit]

Then maybe the highest difficulty shouldn't shit out specials like trash mobs and make more meaningful difficulty decisions.

[frank ether]

how does your idea of ''ammo always spawns'' work for no ammo maelstorm?

I'd like to see you play that with fireteam aura

[soft blade]

[frank ether]

and see how you compete vs psykers

[terse idol]

I mean I don't want to argue this because of total anecdotely evidence

You can have good ammo

[ivory marsh]

no scav aura round look AT THE AMMO picked up

[terse idol]

I can have bad ammo

These are two valid views

[ivory marsh]

I have 1000 scoreboards

with proving

[tiny summit]

YOU HAD 2 PSYKERS YOU IDIOT

[ivory marsh]

how SCAV is overkill and promotes

[terse idol]

Well you have to vod it

[ivory marsh]

EITHER WAY 2 ammo dips

[terse idol]

[frank ether]

lmao

[terse idol]

Lol

[frank ether]

this is actual brainrot

[terse idol]

Psyker gameplay

[frank ether]

let me take exec, MF, deadshot so I can sometimes shoot my gun

yea

actual brainrot discussion

[tiny summit]

2 PSYKERS. HALF YOU TEAM IS OUTSIDE THE AMMO ECON

[terse idol]

This is meaningless

[frank ether]

no this is bait

[ivory marsh]

THE POINT is you dont nEED AMMO TO BE PICKED UP OUR WHOLE TEAM picked up 5 ammo or somethin g

thatS NOTHING

[frank ether]

you're all falling for bait at this point

zealots are baiting you

[tiny summit]

And Ogryns can live with just heavy meleeing everything

[ivory marsh]

so can vet

you dont need scav cause it just feeds int obad habits

where you dont need to think

if you smartly kill waht NEEDS to be killed with ranged

you have ENOUGH ammo

[light ore]

this is the twbs is a crutch debate all over again

[trim steppe]

I dont understand what the arguement is here. Scav isn't necessary. Either are blessings. Neither are godrolls. Just go with no talents and grey weapons and beat a maelstrom, it doesnt matter. But Scav is 100% the strongest talent pick over the alternatives

[untold mulch]

Okay how noticiable is Decimator on shovel

Because while I love near one shotting Crushers, the horde clear is a pain in the ass

[frank ether]

its much worse imo

[ivory marsh]

cav has to be removed

[tiny summit]

I am so glad these people aren't the ones making balancing decisions. Fatshark smoking some shit but these people

[untold mulch]

Imagine going with weapons even smh

[frank ether]

twbs sits a tier below with ''supp immunity is a must have'' types

survival aura debate involves zealot mains, oggy mains and all the VT2 brainrot people

[tiny summit]

I think Fatshark wants people to have fun with guns at all difficulties and not make VT3

[frank ether]

its like a cross class circus debate

[ivory marsh]

at the moment with scav you can braindead shoot anything

which isnt intended with scaricity mechanic

[terse idol]

I mean I don't think it HAS to be removed
Why have gun builds if you can't make ammo

I'm conflicyed

[white minnow]

being able to shoot things is nice

[terse idol]

It depends what game you want from darktide

If you're playing auric damn you're crushing your balls anyways

[ivory marsh]

ammo on HIGHEST difficulty should be a choice

[untold mulch]

I bought the game because I could shoot things

[ivory marsh]

not a answer to everything

[untold mulch]

like, thats it

[tiny summit]

It's just funny people are this heated about balance in PvE horde shooter. Shooting fun. Simple as. I don't need survivalist. But hey I don't really care.

[untold mulch]

having a shooty class, requires that class being able to mostly shoot

[white minnow]

well, moreso that some guns just need to be tuned down
enemies already tend to be more vulnerable to melee and vice versa and I think that's already good enough for difficulty and making you switch weapons

[terse idol]

I just want other auras for vet to feel like, good

[ivory marsh]

??? balancing makes the game fun right now we are so op we can cakewalk into anything

[terse idol]

Nooo

That's not...

Not that true

[ivory marsh]

it is if your a good player

[terse idol]

Most people aren't in damnation

[umbral scaffold]

People love to not balance things until the game is just mindless and boring

[frank ether]

We should make peril relief a resource

[tiny summit]

Definitely not so for the majority of the playerbase

[white minnow]

being able to shoot feels nice and I don't think the ammo economy can really play meaningfully into a level's difficulty unless you make it fairly scarce to the point of it making it a different game

[terse idol]

And auric damn average winrate isn't a 99%

[ivory marsh]

if me and my friend can DUOQ till the end event till our other friend joins us

HOW is the game hard?

[frank ether]

you have to go around and collect brain juice from dead enemies in order to reduce your peril

[white minnow]

yes, we all agree that the power level of players is too high at the moment

[tiny summit]

Good game devs don't balance around the minority of a minority of a minority about things being too easy

[ivory marsh]

18:49 playing the game ALONE till the end event

[terse idol]

Because your experience is not indicative of the larger playerbase

Sorry chief

[white minnow]

that is a whole other discussion from "should we make ammo more scarce"

[ivory marsh]

hardest difficulty shouldnt be balanced around average players?

[untold mulch]

Games that do that

Die fast

[soft blade]

“Clearly this game should be balanced around me and me alone”

[ivory marsh]

hardest difficulty implies HARDEST aka hardcore

[iron marten]

Balancing to the top 1% of the players in a game is lol

[ivory marsh]

NO

you HAVE 5 difficultys

[terse idol]

Highest difficulty isn't gonna be balanced for the 0.01% of people who play auric too

[ivory marsh]

each difficulty represents a skill group

[umbral scaffold]

I wish I was top 1%

[terse idol]

Well 6

Auric damn

[umbral scaffold]

I'm hardly average

[ivory marsh]

@dusty hinge jesus are you so wrong

[trim steppe]

plenty of people struggle with hist damnation just cuz no one on this forum does

[terse idol]

You telling me auric damnation maelstrom isn't the next difficulty?

How am I wrong?

[tiny summit]

Are you stupid?

[ivory marsh]

it is literally the same dmg stats wise it isn't more difficulty per se it's just more mass

[terse idol]

Yes the mass makes it harder

[ivory marsh]

but its still a 5th difficulty

not a 6th

[terse idol]

I can win most of my damnation without modifiers

[ivory marsh]

it doesnt increase damage taken

ressources

[soft blade]

https://tenor.com/view/troll-gif-26178840

[ivory marsh]

etc

[terse idol]

Some maelstrom damnation do give me a run for my money

But flat maelstrom is easy

[ivory marsh]

A DIFFICULTY isnt about modifiers it is about ALL the enemys ALL the ressources ALL medicae

[terse idol]

Well "easy"

I played vt2

[ivory marsh]

a modifier is all about fancy extra difficulty

[frank ether]

there is a good debate to be had buried under metric tons of brainrot

[terse idol]

I am not the average playerbase

[ivory marsh]

but you seem like it 🙂

[terse idol]

??

[ivory marsh]

this

[untold mulch]

Probably my top rn.

[terse idol]

Yes because it isn't

[soft blade]

this is advanced brain decay

[terse idol]

It's balanced for Flat Damantion

[ivory marsh]

is a statement only a fool does "hardcore" hardest difficulty implies for the TOP players NOT the average joe

[frank ether]

sometimes maelstorm spawns less than histg for me

[terse idol]

And FS is more than comfortable balancing per-difficulty

[tall torrent]

Ngl I think a bandaid “nerf” to survivalist would just be make it work only for melee elite/special kills so u can’t actually go around headclick every possible enemy with ur gun and never run out

[frank ether]

even though I'm taking my time

[ivory marsh]

thats the ai director issue being randoms

[frank ether]

difficulty is just all over the place

so are the ammo pick-ups

[tiny summit]

Removing survivalist would affect all difficulties. Different difficulties also reward different material amounts where Damn feels ok and anything below feels like wasting time.

[ivory marsh]

yes but on lower difficultys less enemys? = more ammo to shoot on targets

[frank ether]

so again I'll very happily accept this ''ammo should be scarce'' thing when psykers have to think about peril or zealots have to think about positioning

[terse idol]

The issue being some skills are worse on lower difficulties

[frank ether]

but we are not playing that game

[ivory marsh]

yeah thats why we have 1-5

[timid otter]

Zealots thinking about positoning?

Hahahah

[umbral scaffold]

The feeling of reward comes from triumph and player input in making that triumph happen. It's not fun to play a game that plays itself and you just watch things die, as it's not fun to play a game where you eat shit every 10 seconds

[ivory marsh]

it's a indirect game rank

[stable socket]

to balance survivalist fatshark should just have the director spawn less elites/specialists

[tiny summit]

And the director is bi-polar.

[stable socket]

then you get less ammo from it

[terse idol]

I'm gonna say the funny thing but Scab and Dredge gunners stopping Melee zealots running is definetly intended

😌

[ivory marsh]

that just kills the fun

[soft blade]

zealots think

it’s so over

[tall torrent]

Or make it work only for melee kills

[tiny summit]

Yea keeping ammo positive off a plasma shot or 2 taking out a shotgun squad is pretty nutty

[ivory marsh]

from yourself*

[terse idol]

Survivalist in only melee kills would... actually be okay

[stable socket]

but we don't want the game to be fun, we want it to be harder

[terse idol]

It makes sense

[ivory marsh]

if ONLY you kill it then yes would make youj melee more

[stable socket]

so just more horde and less elites/specials

[lyric dock]

Helbore Vets: So anyway I started stabbing

[terse idol]

Not only you though

Why even have coherency

When it only affects you

[tall torrent]

It’s an aura? It should benefit whole team?

[frank ether]

on my zealot literally ALL 3 of my abilities nerfs gunner into becoming melee chaff

[terse idol]

COugh Loner

[ivory marsh]

it would have to be only you otherwise we have the same issue

[terse idol]

Oh

Only "You"

As in your elite kills

With melee

Not spreading ammo

Hmm

[ivory marsh]

scav is just a bad design cause it makes balancing rough cause the possibility is the aura is there

[terse idol]

I dunno then zealots will get all the ammo

😌

[frank ether]

charge into shooter pack they pull melee, relic literal LoS stun, invisibility self explanatory etc ettc

[terse idol]

Yeah, and people still complain

That gunners are strong now

That... you have to use an ability...

[tall torrent]

Aren’t ur team supposed to work as a team and help each other

[terse idol]

To... kill them...

[ivory marsh]

every trash horde gives you 0.10% than elite on melee 2% some scaling like this

[frank ether]

gunners need a better melee set or better yet

shotgunners shouldnt have a melee set

[ivory marsh]

yes but a op aura making ammo pickups irrelevant is just bad design

[terse idol]

Shovels struggle

[ivory marsh]

no? right perks you kill it all?

[terse idol]

Because some melee weapons just do alot more STAGGER

And not kills

[frank ether]

I think in the past shotgunners would just shoot you up close anyways

[soft blade]

massive truer

[ivory marsh]

well yes

[terse idol]

Uh

[tiny summit]

Almost everyone in a game discord is in the minority of a minority of a minority of a playerbase. We're nerds on a discord crying about survivalist. No one here is majority

[terse idol]

Building for a shovel?>

[frank ether]

but now they pull their stupid melee and die

[terse idol]

IO mean it's fine

[ivory marsh]

but not every weapon works with every build

[stable socket]

actually wait fatshark could also just nerf guns

[terse idol]

If I'm running a psword 6

Or my rashad

[stable socket]

if you double the breakpoint shots for all guns

[ivory marsh]

mk7 sapper with wait lemem send me you my shovel

[tiny summit]

Recon baseline go

[terse idol]

I'm just gonna get an infinite ammo more potential ammo cutting into a horde

[stable socket]

then survivalist is not that good anymore cuz you get less kills of ammo per spec/elite kill

[soft blade]

it always makes me giggle when you close on a shotgunner and they pull out melee instead of just turning you into mist

[terse idol]

Which then leads to it's own issue

[ivory marsh]

it's a fact that scav is op thats the issue

[terse idol]

No I know

[tall torrent]

Ehhhhh idk it definitely doesn’t make ammo pickups irrelevant all the time

[terse idol]

It's the melee meta if you make it affect hordes

Honestly

Melee survivalist is best

[tiny summit]

Idk if players have fun, is it bad design?

[umbral scaffold]

Oh no, my close range weapon is useless for this situation

[tall torrent]

[frank ether]

that worked very well for recon

[ivory marsh]

ON HARDEST DIFFICULTY

[terse idol]

And it shares to all people

[tiny summit]

Yea what else is new. There's are 10 different other variables with scavenger.