veteran-class

[midnight mortar]

A rare anime adaptation of an already good manga that's shaping up to be the best in recent years -> Artists pick up on this and draw what they like -> Creative energy naturally also directed towards memes -> That scene gets combined for various funny pictures -> Someone who liked 40k drew her handing a bolter out

[raw steppe]

especially when this is what baseline looks like

[terse idol]

Why you taking psword

Like

Yeah its op

Brutal momentum

[strange sparrow]

Uhhh

Sure I guess?

I mean I need to get in melee range with Crusher

As well as saying Shovel one shot them

[terse idol]

You can either kill it at range or melee

[round crane]

the power sword is not op by any regard

[strange sparrow]

4 point of talent = Killing Crusher at Range

[junior grail]

I did hear that bit of Frieren hating demons

[slow spade]

Freiren's chapter 13 scene 💪💪💪

[raw steppe]

my main thought is that idk if being able to half-clip a crusher in perfect circumstances is worth 4 talent points

4 talent points is a lot

[round crane]

people who use psykchanium are usually addicted to numbers

[raw steppe]

but yeah i'll prob not be running onslaught

[round crane]

real life

real shit

real gaming

[midnight mortar]

Yeah she also has a 0 tolerance policy against demons. The fantasy setting also has a magic system and combat so there's appeal there too for action.

[raw steppe]

I value the 4 points a bit more i think

[round crane]

is different

[strange sparrow]

I mean this is up to personal preferences to begin

[junior grail]

Base powersword is kinda mid, with right blessings its STRONG

[terse idol]

What is numbers but like a test to what the weapon can do

[strange sparrow]

I wouldn't say that you couldn't do so, I just find that shooting crusher in the head is safer than stabbing crusher/bulwark stack

[terse idol]

If you can 2 shot a crusher with the psword

You can do it in game

[umbral scaffold]

b-but iag recoil too much for my soft little hands 😦

[junior grail]

I saw a bit, very smooth animations. Reminds me of Mushoku Tensei, just need time to watch

[terse idol]

I literally tested rashad so I can get a 4 tap kill with my rashad

And I can... well do that in game

[serene sage]

pogger

[junior grail]

Use your feet too

[umbral scaffold]

the IAG has the most controllable recoil out of any multiplayer FPS i have ever played in the history of ever

[strange sparrow]

What does it MEANS

[empty zephyr]

Ammo Aura's stack? Yes or No?

[raw steppe]

I mean this isn't a video of me doing the one-shot boss kill with the fan revolver lmao. the PS crusher kill is pretty easy to do in game

[near shore]

RRRRAAAA 3300 dmg on a crusher in one hot with knofe, none crit

[strange sparrow]

Aura doesn't stack

[raw steppe]

it's not a meat grinder only thing

[serene sage]

very cringe of you to not know what based means

[inland orchid]

think of it as a twitch go-ers way to say “yippie”

[raw steppe]

you can do it pretty consistently if you head the head

[serene sage]

twitch was a mistake

[strange sparrow]

This is up to personal preferences and I wouldn't dissuade you on getting it or changing route

[inland orchid]

Most platforms are yet we still use them, such is the fate of social media

[raw steppe]

no u cant. ur a PSYKANARIUM ADDICT who's addicted to numbers

[junior grail]

Rizzler on god ohio gyatt

...there might be more words I dont know the new gen are using

[terse idol]

That's impossible I'm allergic to math

[midnight mortar]

I'd strongly recommend it. It's a rare masterwork. Anime/manga like this only come around a few times each decade.

[terse idol]

Oh wait

[raw steppe]

ye lol I dont mind melee personally

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-kitty-yeet-funny-gif-21938191

[midnight mortar]

Good source material, and also adapted very well.

[strange sparrow]

I actually play the game unironically

[raw steppe]

i personally just didnt think the 4 points is worth it for being able to shoot crushers

but some ppl might want

[serene sage]

classic ogryn I swear

[raw steppe]

to have that option

[junior needle]

It's also very helpful against flak, which has a big falloff and starts negative.

[serene sage]

the see you firing and they have to walk up and stand in the way

[slow spade]

Trapper nets a player -> "Yippie~!"

[serene sage]

trappers are cringe

[slow spade]

Trappers need shroudfield

[junior grail]

Dodged Net so Teammate behind gets Trapped Instead

[serene sage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwJke4UWGI

[slow spade]

They also need assail tracking nets

I agree

[junior grail]

Crushers already have stealth with their Overheads

[junior needle]

Not a mk2a revolver, you want surgical on that for sure unless you're going weapon spec. Also lacerate is a big no no, trap blessing.

[slow spade]

True, need to give them the 2 charges upgrade now

[strange sparrow]

is it really ogryn gameplay without eating veteran's 20% of ammo

[terse idol]

Well

Survivalist

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-storm-lightning-cloudy-gif-17607709

[rare tartan]

emp gift 😮

[junior grail]

Well pub Vets

[terse idol]

Only 20%

Pub vets will most definetly run survivalist

[junior grail]

Also I have one friend who for some reason never runs Survivalist

[raw steppe]

i hope he's at least running an ammo efficient weapon

like a revolver or hellbore

[junior grail]

He uses running speed aura of all things

[terse idol]

I don't run it out of spite

[serene sage]

tbf, we are all pub vets

[raw steppe]

instead of complaining about ammo all day

[terse idol]

Also I actually need fire team

For one build

[fringe jackal]

what a lovely shotgun

[junior grail]

Plasma

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-kitty-yeet-funny-gif-21938191

[raw steppe]

ye plasma without ammo aura is kinda rough tbh

hope he has someone to give it to him then

[junior grail]

Its usually me

All my Vets have Survivalist for peace of mind

But fair, I do think other Vet auras should be viable

[raw steppe]

they are viable lol

all the other vet auras are at the same level as all the other auras in the game

it's just ammo aura is way beyond

everything in the game

way too broken

compared to everything else

[spice wadi]

[tranquil bronze]

I think I found a promising autogun

[junior grail]

What if other Vet Auras helped ammo efficiency too?

[raw steppe]

if all the other auras are at power level 5/10 to 8/10, ammo aura is like 25/10 lol

ammo aura is the outlier in darktide

tbh they just need to nerf ammo aura and rebalance ammo pickups in missions probably

[spice wadi]

ammo aura lets your gunlugger ogryn buddy play with his eyes closed and forehead resting on the fire button

[raw steppe]

so vets with ammo aura can still shoot everything they want

[junior grail]

One increases ammo pickups for those in coherency or smth

[raw steppe]

but it's no longer mandatory to use it otherwise the game just becomes harder

[gilded rock]

Jarvis, send a png of a brick to this user

[brazen meadow]

Still on my hunt for a good shovel. This worth taking to orange ?

[raw steppe]

probably what I would do if I was fatshark is make ammo aura only work on weakspot kills, and only give ammo to the vet/person triggering it

and then overall improve ammo pickups in game by 25-40%

so zealots and ogryns and non-ammo aura vets

can play the game

[junior grail]

What if all auras give ammo lol

[raw steppe]

thas stupid

cuz you have the same issue

where the game is fucked is there's no vet

well it's not fucked

it's just 10x more annoying

because the ammo economy still gets broken

based on the existence of the class

[junior needle]

Now you have finesse weapons dominating even more than they do already

They're mandatory

[junior grail]

I saw people were hoping that Ogryn was going to have an ability to carry ammo for the team or smth

[raw steppe]

ye but you can't deny

that the overall ammo economy would be less fucked up

though overtuning finesse weapons is true

[junior grail]

Either way, I doubt we'd be seeing major changes to the Vet tree anytime soon

Fatshark after their holidays will take their time to churn out updates again

[gilded rock]

That could be neat, maybe make it an addition the the glugger F where you can stash extra ammo on your back for when you find useless ammo by holding E instead, so you can either reload yourself or a teammate?

[odd sparrow]

not a shovel expert so not sure about break points, but looks fairly good to me. Carapace and uncanny are atleast 2 good slots, so no matter the roll you can change it into something pretty decent

[junior grail]

Ammo Stimm lol

[gilded rock]

Stacking up on a couple of useless ammo spawns sounds great for helping glugger be less vet-dependent

LOL

[odd sparrow]

huh ogryn carrying ammo actually sounds like a pretty good idea i like that

[gilded rock]

me give you sah's ability lil'un, use it good

[junior needle]

I'd prefer not to have to rely on randos for ammo

Even more than I already do

Survivalist just works

Requiring other people to actively give you ammo is gonna end badly a lot of the time

[gilded rock]

I would agree if it was any other class, but ogryn players (((usually))) are chill

God forbid zealots get that ability, you're never seeing an ammo drop again

[gilded rock]

Could also be a "grab it off his back or he gives it to you" thing

[jaunty tinsel]

What exactly are finesse ranged weapons?

[gilded rock]

So people can't troll with that as badly and can actively choose to help

[white minnow]

stuff with nice crit/weakspot damage multipliers and/or chance

[junior grail]

Guns with high headshot dmg and crit

[jaunty tinsel]

How can I tell if one is that or not?

[raw steppe]

inspect the weapon

and look at the damage numbers

and see how much damage it does on a crit/weakspot vs normal

[jaunty tinsel]

Oh so the second number is on crit/weakspot

[junior grail]

Yea some only increase a little, others by a lot

[north raptor]

slaughterer on power sword yea?

[raw steppe]

not anymore

i think most people are running sunder or bm

[slow spade]

its not bad

but its not the best

[jaunty tinsel]

What's an example of a finesse weapon? They all seem to have, more or less, similar crit amounts

[raw steppe]

knife

and an example of a non-crit weapon is a shredder autopistol

[jaunty tinsel]

Thanks.

That explains why people love autoguns so much, I guess. Infantry Autogun has a similar crit ratio to the knnife.

[terse idol]

Power sword

[regal siren]

The Agripinna Autogun is my favorite ranged weapon. Especially after my boltgun got nerfed

[restive kelp]

is point blank 4 good on hand cannons?

[sonic marlin]

first time getting Transcendant stuff from mission reward lol

[torpid pier]

hell yea

[terse idol]

Damn that sucks

But hey free

[torpid pier]

god damn don't ruin his hype

[sonic marlin]

i know its not gonna be good, im not even 30 yet

[inland orchid]

Is pretty solid for what u are rn

Stripped down mad fun

A big ol middle finger to any ranged attack for a second or 2

[sonic marlin]

i enjoy columnus mk5 alot

[terse idol]

[sonic marlin]

whats rending

[jaunty tinsel]

armor-penetration in a nutshell, i think

[junior grail]

So your gun kills instead of going tingtingting

[jaunty tinsel]

i dont really like rending since it only really matters againsnt carapace armor, and i can jusst use krak grenades against those enemies

[junior grail]

Onslaught is good enough most of the time

[jaunty tinsel]

Crushers are the only enemy where rennding seems to have any perceptible difference in DPS at all

[shut flax]

It also affects Mauler heads, if you're shooting that

[sharp ember]

super late reply but Uncanny 4 is great and +Carapace is useable because of Uncanny, it'll be a decent shovel to upgrade

[shut flax]

But yeah. Rending is best against crushers.

[jaunty tinsel]

it would, but your DPS is still higher if you're shooting at mauler bodies, funnily enough

[lofty lintel]

Rending is great

[jaunty tinsel]

that's with 20% rending

[shut flax]

Yep

[terse idol]

Rending... iirc is a way that damage that do low damage to Carapace... does damage

[terse idol]

Besides like pgun, MAYBE REVOLVER

[shut flax]

Rending is great if you always wanna do damage to everything. If you're fine with not being able to kill crushers with an autogun, you can ignore it and use your psword

[jaunty tinsel]

it does let u use grenades other than krak grenades, if that's important to you

[terse idol]

Shredders aree good

[jaunty tinsel]

otherwise getting enough rending can be quite expensive point-wise

[junior grail]

I'm a shredder gang

[lofty lintel]

it doesnt matter as long as you have an answer to everything

[jaunty tinsel]

yeah, lots of permutations

[shut flax]

If you do decide to go without onslaught, you might wanna invest in some grenade skills

[brazen meadow]

ty sexy

[jaunty tinsel]

getting 20% rending is a huge investment. it does work quite well, but not a lot of room to do anything elsse

[junior grail]

Hoping one day smoke is actually viable and doesn't blind everyone

[lofty lintel]

youre not locked to one way of answering a question, if that makes any sense

[terse idol]

Its okay

[lofty lintel]

theres many ways to deal with stuff

[terse idol]

If there's no snipers

[lofty lintel]

i personally like rending a lot

big difference when shooting armor

[shut flax]

Does Covering Fire's base damage stack additively with Redirect Fire's?

[junior grail]

I just want enemies in smoke to be highlighted like Ogryns Taunt, is that too much to ask?

[lofty lintel]

they need to rework smokes

[terse idol]

I mean

[lofty lintel]

i was discussing possible smoke buffs and rework ideas a month ago or two

[terse idol]

Yeah

[junior grail]

I saw a suggestion to lower the height of smokes, so you can at least their heads

[terse idol]

All they need to do is make it so snipers can't shoot

[lofty lintel]

the problem with smokes is that they dont fucking work

[terse idol]

Or it extinguishes smoke

They do

[lofty lintel]

they dont, everything shoots through it like they can still see you

[terse idol]

If an enemy is already firing they'll only fire in your last known position

[junior grail]

Sniper got that see-through scope

[terse idol]

Enemies that aren't shooting won't shoot

[lofty lintel]

they will if theyre outside the smoke circle

thats the issue

[terse idol]

Its why you can pop smoke on gunners who aren't shooting and they'll just kinda be there confused

This is why you put them

In front of the enemies

[lofty lintel]

thats the thing tho putting it in front of them doesnt work you gotta throw it on them

[terse idol]

In the grim darkness of 40k the imperium hasn't yet made anti IR smokes

Sadge

[terse idol]

No you don't

Because the smoke creates an obstacle for ranged enemies

[lofty lintel]

yes. you do its been known that if gunners are outside the smoke bubble they dont care that its there and still shoot you

[terse idol]

They cannot shoot you if they cannot see you

[crude fiber]

Smoke is ok imo, let's you concentrate on melee or rush down shooters

[terse idol]

Only if they were already shooting

Its as good as a ghetto bubble shield for ranged

[junior grail]

If smoke works like a pseudo Psyker bubble and gives toughness damage reduction, that might be fun

[unborn perch]

Is this good?

[junior grail]

It looks fine, not many people vouch for mg4 lasgun though afaik

[unborn perch]

I think it's the best one now js

[lofty lintel]

the best one is 1a

[unborn perch]

meh

[lofty lintel]

no it literally does the most dps

all 3 are fine tho

but yes thats a god roll

[unborn perch]

I know all about it but until you have a mg4 like I do... You wouldn't really understand.

[terse idol]

Well but the MXII is power crept

[lofty lintel]

true

[terse idol]

With the full auto mod?

[unborn perch]

I have a good Ia and now its a dust collector compared to this mg4

I don't fuck wit mods bro, full natty over here

[serene sage]

I am so sick of ogryns blocking my shots

they make the game so hard for no reasons

[shut flax]

Gonna try to run Columnus without Onslaught with kraks to see how that goes

[unborn perch]

I wanna love the mk12 but the the firerate and recoil are so ass to me

[terse idol]

The recoil is like the same as an Ia

It just has bad fire rate

[gray finch]

you got to be kiddnig

its for psyker

[unborn perch]

Not really Ia has better than mk12 but the mg4 recoil is so good even when you max out the firerate, it just rocks up and down perfectly.

[round crane]

imagine having mods ands not having orange weapons

[brazen meadow]

???

[crude ermine]

Could be better in terms of charge

Speed

[brazen meadow]

I have a ton , just never used shovel before this week

[round crane]

ignore me

[terse idol]

Honestly I think thats pretty good

[oak flame]

Deathsplitter vs fire frezy whats better

[terse idol]

And you got blaze it

So like you don't want to be charging much anyways

Defo a keeper

Test your BP's for unarmoured

Maybe swap glory hunter if you want more damage but can keep it

[slate kayak]

Hi
I am a newbie who is playing the game.
What type of curio do I need to play in heresy?

[crude ermine]

I'll give that a go

[crude ermine]

I'd recommend 2 toughness and a health

Or just go all toughness

[terse idol]

Honestly

1 wound recommend then either 1 health 1 toughness

Or 2 toughness 1 wound

Imo

[slate kayak]

And to get the good curios, I assume the only way is with the contract person?

[terse idol]

You just find them either with Brunt or melk

Youre just looking for as close to 80 as you can in the modifier

[crude ermine]

And for the perks inside the blessing I'd take extra toughness, dmg resistance against either gunners or snipers (gunners preferably) and 3rd I'd recommend maybe health, but that's just how I run it

[slate kayak]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668041130062905345/1194451165853786153/IMG_20240110_122201.jpg?ex=65b06655&is=659df155&hm=dfece6adb56240a8a4e712a8ab3670fae6f9550806645ac4ad1edfc7eb6a9602&

That is what I have at the moment. The gun I use does not really matter right?
It is based on personal preference?

[shut flax]

Huh, not taking Onslaught was pretty good for Damnation. I probably wouldn't take it into aurics tho.

[crude ermine]

Yeah, and the weapon is pretty good regardless

[midnight totem]

I think I like ghost on my accutron laspistol

[lofty lintel]

pretty much except for taxes funnily enough

and shredder autopistol

taxes just get completely outclassed by combat axes

and shredder autopistol is ass

[terse idol]

How come?

[midnight totem]

Sidestrafing a line of gunners and shotgunners with ghost is fun

[terse idol]

It would have juuust as good

[shut flax]

Eh, fair.

[terse idol]

Auric doesn't increase their health or resistances

Iirc

[shut flax]

Just volume

[terse idol]

Yuhh

[shut flax]

2 grenades with a minute time between them shooould be enough

[midnight totem]

It is not

[shut flax]

If not, psword

Also, is covering fire any good? The stats on it look insane.

[midnight totem]

It's quite decent

But I don't think it's needed

[shut flax]

Of course it isn't needed, but it does seem like an interesting babysit skill

[midnight totem]

Most other classes whom be in the thick of it who'd benefit from it often have their own skills that help

[shut flax]

Ideally, yes. If that was the case, VOC wouldn't be nearly as popular.

[midnight totem]

And if they're in that much of deep shit that it does help, your entire team is probably about to be swamped

[crisp bronze]

I haven't used it to much myself. Seems like it would be best on a plasma that would hit a crusher and kill some trash around him or maybe a brauto spraying a couple bullets every now and then just to top up your teammates.

[tiny summit]

only a handful of matches stand out and maybe the director being asleep but my smoothest aurics have all been 3 vets and a psyker

[shut flax]

Running crit columnus and I have a free point. Might just take it.

Hm. I wonder if demolition team would compensate for not having onslaught if the director just launches a shit ton of crushers at the team.

[tiny summit]

Hard to tell unless you are purposely paying attention in the game or reviewing vods. It does look nice and is just a range kill. I may try to work it into my exe builds some time but it is a 2 point tax for mine

[shadow aurora]

Personally i wouldn't take it. People dont really build there weapons around 10% making a break point. Good for certain ranged weapons but the 10% would be negligible for most melee weapons

Except like

Knifes

[shut flax]

That's true

[burnt onyx]

However, it could help with team breakpoints when 4 ppl are mowing through the same enemies. =)

[shut flax]

Also, does it stack additively or multiplicatively with Redirect Fire?

[shadow aurora]

True

[burnt onyx]

Very situational though...

[shadow aurora]

Was just saying it would not be as beneficial as it sounds

[burnt onyx]

Could also slightly speed up clear time on extremely dense hordes.

[shut flax]

I dunno, you're shooting a lot of heads with a columnus

[shadow aurora]

With fatsharks coding? Who knows

[terse idol]

Sometimes it's obvious

But it's a source that's unique

Seemingly sources that are the same are multiplicative

Sooo uh

*shrug

[shut flax]

I dunno. I'd say it's the lesser of the two.

I doubt we'd give the team a 26% damage buff for free

[terse idol]

I mean they give us a 32% damage boost for free

With focus target

[shut flax]

True

Hm. That would be an interesting test. Either way, I'll give it a shot next time. Gonna give the ammo perk a shot with a crit columnus and see how much I can shoot for free.

[pallid verge]

query: is there any reason to use a recon lasgun over a inf autogun?

[burnt onyx]

inf autoguns are better

[tiny summit]

pretty lights

[burnt onyx]

there used to be a reason when Storm Trooper perk worked correctly and you had tons of free shots

now it only triggers once/few seconds

[tiny summit]

you can use them, you're likely to do far better and more efficiently with most other weapons at this time

[pallid verge]

👍

[burnt onyx]

are you controller or mouse? =D

controller might not be able to handle recoil

[unborn perch]

If I'm running an all gas marksman's focus build and I want an answer for bosses, carapace, and ragers, what do you guys think is a BIS melee weapon? I'm thinking the Orestes MKXII chain axe.

[burnt onyx]

If you don't need extra defense this will do:

[ruby hull]

That's a mighty fine bayonet build power sword

[burnt onyx]

I 2-shot crushers.

[unborn perch]

I have this one but it doesn't do what I want for bosses.

Handles ragers and carapace ok but like the boss damage just isn't there.

[burnt onyx]

Yeah slaughterer loses stacks with no chaff to kill vs bosses...and doesn't have the sick push attack stab that the Mk VI does...

plus it's followup

Mk VI lights with BM are l33t horde clear too, safer than Mk III heavies

I don't use heavies on the Mk VI, just lights and push attack + followup or two

if you push cancel the special charge but don't make it a push attack, you can do two sweeping lights then a strikedown light all charged up

[unborn perch]

I'll keep an eye out for the 6 but I don't think its gonna do what the chaxe is gona do with thrust and bloodletter on bosses.

[burnt onyx]

Maybe not, but it has more horde/crusher clear. =)

I really liked the VI once I switched to it...much better moveset. The only thing the III does better is the horizontal heavies, which are more dangerous to use.

[unborn perch]

Idk man, I have on my zealot that can 1 shot the crushers. hoarde clear will suffer though. But that's ok imo.

[junior needle]

BIS melee weapon
Orestes MKXII chain axe

[unborn perch]

speaking to chaxe

[burnt onyx]

Also bleed doesn't do extra damage if someone else is already stacking it... =D

Powersword is always extra damage.

[junior needle]

I'm curious what all gas means in this context

[burnt onyx]

What weapon btw?

My ranged weapon usually deals with bosses.

[unborn perch]

We'll see. I'm leaning chaxe though for the the stagger lock on ragers with activated swing. Boss damage and carapce damage is a cherry on top

[unborn perch]

I'm running las gun so the boss damage is ass

[burnt onyx]

Single rager.

Ah ok...

[unborn perch]

yeah.

[junior needle]

It has an interaction with crit strings now, where it only doesn't use ammo for the first crit of a string. It still triggers correctly for all lasguns last I checked, not every few seconds.

[burnt onyx]

Imagine if some tech prieses got together...

Priests.

and created a power sword + chainsword combo!

Sawwing + energy!!!

[junior needle]

Not really, no. While they have a pleasant lack of recoil, they have abysmal dps and ammo efficiency compared to other guns and notably IAG's.

[burnt onyx]

Would the warp explode if a psker tried to use a chainsword powersword force sword? =D

[frosty girder]

is it worth upgrading this Mk VI versus keeping my Mk III? Note: i locked in those perks before understanding how the blessing system works.

[unborn perch]

This is what I mean.

[burnt onyx]

yes, you might roll Power Cycler IV.

plus Mk VI is nicer

[junior needle]

What gun are you even using

[burnt onyx]

@frosty girder #veteran-class message

[unborn perch]

So the emphasis is on ranged, which is why I want the strongest melee out of the box so I don't have to spec in the tree for melee.

I run a g roll Mg4 lasgun. But I can run a few different options on that tree

[ocean viper]

oh lord he took 3 things in executioner stance

[junior needle]

I uh

Think you'd get much better value with some shifted points

[unborn perch]

I mean a lot people don't but I get the value out of them and I tend to play definitive builds. In this case...it is marksman all the way.

[ocean viper]

what does "definitive" mean

[unborn perch]

By definition

[junior needle]

If he doesn't go in a straight line his OCD will kill him

[ocean viper]

?

[unborn perch]

no half measures, full role dedication..

[junior needle]

So there's a few of questionable pickups in there, and ways to better spend points. You don't need to take any melee talents to get better ranged performance with your points.

[ocean viper]

what?

what does that even mean

role dedication?

i was under the assumption that all we did was shoot specials and melee everything else

[unborn perch]

Let's hear what you'd suggest.

[junior needle]

Part of being shooty is not dying in melee, so taking at least damage reduction is good for that purpose

[burnt onyx]

I run 2x Stam curios for positioning and melee prowess.

And revives.

[unborn perch]

What I mean by "definitive" is that I build this tree to its full measure and take all marksman related talents and bypass anything that does not fall under the role of a fully dedicated ranged spec.

[burnt onyx]

But you need to be good at avoiding damage.

[ocean viper]

i fail to comprehend this sentence, my apologies

[frosty girder]

enhanced target priority (leftmost executioner perk) is apparently bugged and won't highlight for your teammates

[unborn perch]

Yes, it is skill dependant and your melee game has to already be on point. But like, I'm legit and working on 2k+ hours.

[burnt onyx]

It did for me one patch recently, did they break it again>

?

I know it was broken.

Does it work for just vets?

[unborn perch]

I've been seeing the highlights from other veterans. I thought it was fixed a while back..Is that not the case still?

[frosty girder]

Ahh i didnt realize it had been fixed. i stopped using it around then and never really missed it. My bad if i'm incorrect.

[burnt onyx]

Now I want to test it again. =)

[shut flax]

Huh, running the ammo perk with survivalist and the crit columnus actually kinda breaks the ammo economy a bit. Didn't have to worry about ammo once.

[ocean viper]

id think this is funnier for a ranged build but i think you've a better idea of what you want

[burnt onyx]

It's funny how little ammo everyone has with 2 vets, 4 total ammo users, and no survivalist aura... =(

Red all the way

[unborn perch]

I take the extras on the the highlights because it is important. Everytime I play a different class and the vet doesn't share the highlights. I hate it.

[serene sage]

I think tactical awareness is too expensive

for what it realistically offers

[ocean viper]

fair enough

[burnt onyx]

I usually use VoC for invincibility.

[ocean viper]

i.... don't think highlighting shit for your team is useful tbh

you should be killing them anyway

[unborn perch]

I have all three build setups in my loadouts to switch between when I see one already being played.

[burnt onyx]

Depends on the skill level of your team...newer players may be overwhelmed. But pros will be able to see all the silent trappers/poxbursters through walls and prepare accordingly.

[ocean viper]

if you stand near a spawn door its kind of your fault

trappers you just dodge the second u hear them shoot the net

[burnt onyx]

I can stand next to any door spawn and not take poxburster damage, just gotta know what to do.

[ocean viper]

yea shove them the second the door opens

[burnt onyx]

Trappers have to exit to shoot.

[unborn perch]

Brain Burst Psykers love the highlights. literally everyone loves it, randoms have given me kudos for sharing the highlights a lot

[ocean viper]

brain burst psykers should already be looking for elites to begin with?

[shut flax]

When I was a brain burst psyker, I'd enjoy seeing faraway snipers

[shut flax]

???

[ocean viper]

besides u can just ping something

[unborn perch]

I mean, they do bro but like seeing evereything with a gun in its hand is...awesome.

[ocean viper]

i fail to see its usefulness

[shut flax]

It's QOL, really.

It's like an automatic door. It benefits everyone, but if you're too good to use it, there's always other doors.

[ocean viper]

from my perspective, if they weren't going to see it without the highlights they weren't gonna shoot it anyway

might as well shoot it yourself

[unborn perch]

I just can't not take it. But that's just me. I feel any marksman should share the highlights. I guess that's just a disagreement we have.

[ocean viper]

thats fair

[shut flax]

Team dynamics differ from the individual mindset. If you wanna get into the actual applications of this, that's a different topic.

Helping others help you is a good thing to do.

[junior needle]

So the X's are things that are either not worth it with that setup (or often detrimental in the case of enhanced target priority as your teammates will poach resets). The pointers are things I highly recommend. Deadshot is actually very good for infantry lasguns although you may not like the mechanics of it, and that's fine. Shock trooper is massive ammo efficiency in a critfishing setup (which means more damage).

Rending strikes is much more reliable than the rending from the marksman keystone, which I personally don't like and find questionable value in. On top of grabbing tactical awareness and iron will, both extremely good. I'd drop the keystone for the middle tree dip.

[ocean viper]

if you kill every special, your team won't have to bother

they can just brainlessly m1 the horde like god intended

[burnt onyx]

Or you see so many too targets at once, then the highlights make you decide to shoot a higher threat target that you didn't see it before hand?

[ocean viper]

I would agree only if i saw a bomber

[burnt onyx]

Or the silent poxburster through the horde.

Silent bombers are nasty too...

[shut flax]

Flanking flamer moment

[ocean viper]

just shoot them

[shut flax]

No shit.

[ocean viper]

they're not as bad as bombers

poxbursters are ass but usually not the end of the world

[burnt onyx]

Only if there happen to be three+ about to kiss you and while you push them and dodge backwards...someone else on your team kills one so they all explode.

(Usually a new vet that does that.)

[ocean viper]

their fault, simple as

if you fail just g next

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shut flax]

I think you might be baiting at this point lol

[burnt onyx]

It'll be nice when they fix the audio in this game. =)

[ocean viper]

yeah don't u love hearing a poxburster above u and it sounds like its right next to you so you turn 360 looking for it

I've learned to look up lmao

[burnt onyx]

The double-push is a good tactic.

Push one direction, do a 180, and push the other direction.

You can see everything around you and stay safe from most enemies.

Know which direction to run.

[ocean viper]

i usually just lob a grenade at my feet and then bail

if i get hit by a poxburster then it is what it is

[tranquil bronze]

Damn Hadron, why you so nice to me tonight?

[unborn perch]

These are good suggestions. They are mostly the ones that I have weighed and thought on a lot. I would take the crit specs when I use the recon but not on the Mg4 I use and the aura size is huge imo so I take that since I'm usually in the back sniping. I feel the reload on elite kills is great for not losing the combat ability on reload as well. I would alter it though for the recon las gun and take the crit specs you suggested. And I'm just not going for the rending in the middle. Best I can do with my ocd and role preferences is take the rending in the keystone.

[ocean viper]

is that really a symptom of ocd

[unborn perch]

I think my ocd forces me to play the role to my understanding as intended, yes. Kinda at minimum.

[junior needle]

I would not recommend deadshot on recons, or using recons in general. They're quite bad and also blow through your stamina very fast with it.

While the reload is nice, it's generally overshadowed by later picks. You'll also have a much easier time with ult management if you take tactical awareness, and can get more value out of temp boosts like the marksman (not keystone) node with it.

Also, your toughness should be taken care of with confirmed kill and ET

[unborn perch]

Yeah, I don't fuck with deadshot at all honestly. Never really liked it on anything. The no ammo use on crit is huge though with recons.

[junior needle]

Not as good as it used to be sadly. It now only applies on the first crit in a string, and then they additionally had their strings reduced to 2 for no reason.

[unborn perch]

Yeah its fine in the gunner window but I need something in the melee shituation at least

[junior needle]

No change for other lasguns, but recons got mega shafted.

[unborn perch]

hmm did not know

[gritty dock]

Does anyone know what the best Blessings and Perks are for the Kantrael Mk IX Combat Shotgun?
I've never played with this weapon before.
What's the best thing to change here?
The weapon has:
Fire Frenzy Gain +9% Close Damage for 3.5 seconds after killing an enemy at close range, stacking 5 times.
Full Bore +20% Power for 5s when every bullet in a shot hits the same enemy.
+20% Carapace
+25% Flak
Thank you for your help. 😀

[junior needle]

Yeah, 1/5 as effective as it was in patch 13 for the 6d.

[shut flax]

Isn't the roll scattershot and man stopper?

[junior grail]

Might just be placebo but I feel with all the nerfs, Recon 7a isn't a bad option compared to 6d and 2

[unborn perch]

The one with the highest firerate is still my favorite. But I don't take it to damnation.

[tulip condor]

Would swap Fire Frenzy to No Respite. Can change Carapace to whatever you like

[hybrid token]

Shotgun without no respite is painful

[junior needle]

Well 2 is the indisputable worst. 6d still has the highest talented/full build dps (and highest synergy with HH/infernus/onslaught due to fire rate). Here's the best baseline performance comparison I could get, using onslaught/rending to simulate having not dogshit modifiers.

[gritty dock]

Thx. 👍

[spare mountain]

oh hey, the goofy ahh blessing. neat

[raw steppe]

i found it very eh

i liked bleed one on lawbringer more

[spare mountain]

I just remember that this and Flechette are annoying to get at 30

[raw steppe]

yep

[spare mountain]

so now I can ignore shotguns in my refreshes now again

[burnt onyx]

could always try to find a low stability one for max spread flechette

[umbral scaffold]

what if I don't want to stop the men, huh
what if I want them to come to me so I can fucking drive a knife through their skull, huh

[tranquil bronze]

Should I swap both blessings?

[junior needle]

That's what I'd do

[tranquil bronze]

Was told that MG XII doesn't really need flak

[junior needle]

All the infantry lasguns have shit damage to flak

[tranquil bronze]

I see

[flat dock]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b0e49af-5785-4bbc-8539-a37d7fa18f56/crit-boltgun

Opinions?

[unborn perch]

I think you'd be fine leaving opening salvo as is and just swapping the other blessing and one perk.

[tranquil bronze]

Too late, I swapped opening salvo

[unborn perch]

Damn son

[tranquil bronze]

You should have come earlier

So it's currently falter and deadly accurate

[unborn perch]

Someone argue with me about the Vraks MkII HeadHunter Autogun being the best gun for a Marksman build.

[tranquil bronze]

So I think I'll just go and swap out both blessings, or keep falter,and swap unyielding to flak.

[unborn perch]

I thought you already swapped OS?

[tranquil bronze]

I just had enough to swap out one so I chose opening salvo, never really found it greatly useful.

So I gotta head back in and grind for more plasteel

That stuff goes by so quickly

[unborn perch]

I dig it. But only on the MK12 and the Vraks Mk7

[tranquil bronze]

Is flak really that important?

[unborn perch]

Yes, dude.

it is

[tranquil bronze]

So I guess I'll go with flak then.

Stagger should still come in handy

[flat dock]

Isn’t flak important on almost all weapons in game

[unborn perch]

Pretty much

[unborn perch]

I mean its more damge vs. more stagger. I'd take the damage over the stagger. But do what you want,

And Opening Salvo has great uptime.

[flat dock]

I would take killing the enemy over stalling killing the enemy

[unborn perch]

And the difference between t3 OS and t4 OS is 2% so you were fine with t3.

[tranquil bronze]

Well it is what it is. I never found OS that handy due to it only being a single shot.

[junior needle]

It was the right play imo, opening salvo is awkward to work around

It's not bad

But

[tranquil bronze]

I would find OS to work well with something like a helbore

[junior needle]

You're better off with the crit synergy blessings

[unborn perch]

bro...OS is great on any semi auto. Unless you spam the trigger its always up.

But yes HH and DA is the big play

[junior needle]

It's generally inferior on every marksman weapon atm

Vraks 3 wants HH/deadly

vraks 7 wants surgical/deadly

infantry las wants the crit setup. On the mg4 it's not good because you know, rapid fire.

[unborn perch]

Yes, IF you have rng on your side and compare it to HH/DA but like in the situation he was in...it woulda been legit.

[junior needle]

What situation is that?

[unborn perch]

He had to choose between falter or os

[junior needle]

Well he was going to replace both blessings

[unborn perch]

with a trash perk

[junior needle]

huh

[unborn perch]

If he changed both blessings, sure. But he needed flak so the weight there between the options woulda been fine for os

[junior needle]

Oh there's more in the conversation, and he had no clue what to do.

Well if he wanted flak he should've changed falter, yes.

Absolute dead blessing and I would've agreed if I saw that before

[tranquil bronze]

So I guess I'm stuck with slightly less damage

Dammit

[junior needle]

Falter is big shit

[unborn perch]

No one gets a groll Mk12 first roll bro.

[junior needle]

Absolutely useless blessing, can even make things worse for you

Becuase if you don't one shot it often makes targets flinch

[unborn perch]

I've had a 2/4 roll on mine for 2,000 hours

[tranquil bronze]

So should I just swap out Falter instead?

Because I feel like I just got fucked over here

[junior needle]

You can get the darktide breakpoint calc

[unborn perch]

You rolled DA so you might as well either roll HH or flak. and I'd suggest rolling flak.

[junior needle]

https://dt.wartide.net/calc/

DA is kinda big shit if you can't reliably critfish

[unborn perch]

Yeah you should reroll DA to HH or OS

OS and Falter are a good pairing

[junior needle]

Having it by itself is gonna do nothing. Better off replacing it if you can only have one.

But first check to see what breakpoints flak would give you over unyielding

I fail to see how they have any synergy

[tall torrent]

Swap both blessings tbh

[unborn perch]

Nvm I thought falter gave damage to staggered enemies.

[junior needle]

That's no respite

[tall torrent]

That’s no respite

[unborn perch]

Yeah

[junior needle]

Hivemind

[tall torrent]

Infantry lasguns don’t have much stagger tho

If ur on helbore it would make a little more sense

[tranquil bronze]

So I definitely got fucked over here.

[unborn perch]

lol

[tall torrent]

Swap both blessings, ur fine

[tranquil bronze]

Damn you Soldier

[junior needle]

I didn't tell you to keep falter

Flak is typically very important, but I'm not sure how important it is for weakspot breakpoints on the k12

[unborn perch]

If it was mine I would put flak on it and put Os back on it and call it a day.

[tranquil bronze]

I suppose I can just go back to using this older one

[junior needle]

HH/da should make up for it across a variety of targets

[tall torrent]

That is the saddest good stat roll MG12 I’ve seen

[junior needle]

As opposed to one type

But the calc will confirm

[tranquil bronze]

That other perk was stamina

[unborn perch]

or do this, yeah

[tall torrent]

Carapace is basically irrelevant on infantry lasgun

[junior needle]

We've come full circle

[tranquil bronze]

It was either swap carapce, or swap stamina.

[junior needle]

Stamina actually would've been fine for deadshot usage

[tall torrent]

Yea I’d swap carapace out

Carapace gives u like a grand total of 6 more dmg

On infantry lasguns

[junior needle]

While rending strikes alleviates it, semi autos are no longer even possibly acceptable users of onslaught

So you're stuck with pretty poor carapace damage

You could kinda get around it when DOT's applied onslaught but that's gone now

[tall torrent]

Even with Infernus 4 applying onslaught, MG4 still sucked vs carapace

MG12 has no chance

And now DoTs don’t apply onslaught anymore

[unborn perch]

And thus...The Vraks Mk7 is the answer

[junior needle]

Vraks also sucks vs carapace, but slightly less

[unborn perch]

Not really lol

[tall torrent]

Vraks7 is not that good on carapace

[junior needle]

Should have a 6% damage mod

Similarly to other autoguns

[unborn perch]

but only with max marksman stacks.

[junior needle]

6ish excuse me

[halcyon zephyr]

If I could have two choices of perks for plasma, what would they be, unyielding and carapace, maniac and flak?

[tall torrent]

If you were talking vraks3 carapace dps at least that’s a bit more feasible

[unborn perch]

hang on let me see how many shots it takes to kill this crusher...

[tall torrent]

Elite + carapace

[junior needle]

maniac/unyielding seems to be the popular setup but it depends highly on your gun stats

[tall torrent]

U want 1 taps on everything essentially

I think u can get flamer 1 tap without maniac

[halcyon zephyr]

lowest stat is damage at 65%, rest are over 76

[unborn perch]

6 shots with 15 stacks and combat ability. On weakspot.

Thats super solid.

[tall torrent]

It’s ok but that’s abt it

[junior needle]

Damage stats, also that's pretty bad

[tall torrent]

For a gun that focuses on 1 taps, having that dps on crushers is ok

[unborn perch]

idk man I think thats awesome compared to lasguns.

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1185515538475134998/1192391435392139284/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2024.01.04_-_03.35.39.18.mp4?ex=65a8e80f&is=6596730f&hm=28d684d60eb3e6cf9974385a573b2cec0b9ca57edc9e7a7551f3687834556184&

[tall torrent]

Compared to most lasguns yea

[halcyon zephyr]

came with volitile and it gets hot, so keeping for the flexible perks

[tall torrent]

Helbore has similar shots to kill iirc

But shoots a bit slower due to charging shots

But HB doesn’t need rending

Saves 1 point

[junior needle]

It should be illegal to post testing videos without your gun and tree setup

nay

heresy

[spare mountain]

yea or nay

[unborn perch]

no

[hollow ibex]

worth getting imo

[unborn perch]

but go ahead...gamble

[tall torrent]

Headhunter 4
Deadly accurate 4
Elite 8%
Specialist 10%

[hollow ibex]

very good base stats, even if the perk isn't good

[tall torrent]

Worth the gamble

[radiant chasm]

headhunter+ deadly accurate on vraks3 makes it an armor buster

[junior needle]

Solid roller, go for it

[unborn perch]

you only need one consecration to know for sure, so go ahead

[radiant chasm]

because you crit the whole salvo with vraks 3 but you proc headhunter 3x per salvo

[hollow ibex]

technically two, but depends on how much you want to gamble

[unborn perch]

I think the Vraks are the best ranged options for marksman except for the HBs

[golden nacelle]

Man oh man... If I can only get friggin brutal momentum 4 to drop for me

[unborn perch]

And the MG4 and Ia are in the top three

[tall torrent]

Vraks3/7 are very good with MF

HB benefits from FT more because it has a lower finesse modifier

[junior needle]

Not surprised, tree takes a lot of things that make for good crusher damage. Double dips on ogryn and elite damage, then the ping keystone for 20% damage.

[golden nacelle]

Axe is a beast as is anyways, I just want that perfect 550

[unborn perch]

Not even to mention the special attacks on the Vraks can floor ragers

[tall torrent]

It’s sort of a pure sharpshooter build, just with VoC instead of exe

[tiny summit]

done tonight

[tall torrent]

Lmao

[unborn perch]

at least he didn't jump through the wall

[junior needle]

You might want to shoot for a rashad instead of an antax if you want a perfect weapon

It's basically antax but better due to having finesse

[unborn perch]

faster heavies and more armor damage

[tall torrent]

Rashad has better dmg than Antax (a lot better)

But the moveset is worse

[unborn perch]

with a shittier special than the antax

[junior needle]

Isn't the moveset basically the same?

[tiny summit]

let markman focus give melee finesse fatshark. I have no ill intentions with bayonet

[junior needle]

with lights and heavies

[unborn perch]

not really

[tall torrent]

Better push atk and better stagger

That makes a pretty big difference actually

[junior needle]

I never even use push attacks

[tall torrent]

Especially when you’re fighting ragers for example

Antax can just stagger ragers out of their combos super safe

[unborn perch]

the special attacks on the combat axes stagger ragers

[tall torrent]

Rashad usually needs to go for a push atk to stagger

[unborn perch]

antax has the best special though

[tall torrent]

It’s the same poke as standard shovel

But Antax breakpoints are a lot harder to get

Cuz it’s just less dmg

[unborn perch]

the antax is the hoarde clearing one rashad is better single target

[tall torrent]

Rashad clears better still

Just easier to get breakpoints

[unborn perch]

I don't agree with that

[tall torrent]

Antax reaching bruiser 1 shot needs super specific stuff

[crisp bronze]

I've never had to use the special attack on the Rashad. Mostly because everything dies so quick anyway. With Ragers the push attack works fine.

[unborn perch]

on the clearing point

[tall torrent]

Rashad takes less talent point investments and less optimal perks to get both bruiser 1 shot, and swings faster

[halcyon zephyr]

So when was the last time the servers were rebooted, the patch?

[junior needle]

Very probably

[unborn perch]

The swings on the antax are more horizontal than rahsad but not by much.

[crisp bronze]

Rashad can kill 4 Bruisers per swing easier. That's probably the single most important breakpoint for horde clear. Can't one shot bruisers, horde clear takes a big hit.

[tall torrent]

That’s like a really negligible difference while suffering a lot from breakpoints

[junior needle]

Indeed it is

[unborn perch]

I just prefer the antax for clearing over the rashad, the data is there for rashad but if you had g rolls of both, like I do, you'd forgive me for taking the antax for clearing.

[junior needle]

Remember, if you cannot one hit a target, your clear STOPS with brutal

[unborn perch]

Antax just feels better in that situation to me

[tall torrent]

If you have unarmored + flak, BM + headtaker on Antax

That’s fair

But that’s so so so so specific

[junior needle]

And sufficient stats

To make up for the lack of finesse stat

Which also affects attack speed

[unborn perch]

You don't even need the unarmored on a good one. can good flak and maniac

[tall torrent]

U need unarmored for easier access on scab bruiser 1 shot

U can do without, just takes way more melee dmg nodes to get there

[unborn perch]

I don't even use these shits on veteran. Its either the chainsword, chaxe or powersword for the vet. I'm speaking on the axes solely from a zealots stand point.

[tall torrent]

Should have said that at beginning lol

[white minnow]

vet is just zealot if it were vet if it were zealot if it were vet if it were zealot if it were vet

[unborn perch]

right

[golden nacelle]

lol... well, my axe just feels really good

cause it does have those godrolls

[crisp bronze]

Rashad only needs Unarmoured, BM, and Headtaker. Other perk could be anything, even utility like sprint efficiency. A perfect Rashad doesn't get any breakpoints from any other damage perk. Clears hordes almost as good as a Power Sword while also having the Elite killing power of a Power Sword. Without needing to activate it. Rashad is simply better.

[golden nacelle]

the clear is honestly insane, great dodge mobility, love the special poke

[junior needle]

Yeah zealot has a ton more melee damage access

and attack speed

and crit

Which also helps with breakpoints for one taps

Very important mention

You kinda need flak unless you have a perfect roll and take a bunch of stuff to make up for it in the tree

[tranquil bronze]

Sadly only have Headhunter II, but I can at least find better ones with a better version

[golden nacelle]

yeah, well I need it mostly for horde clear and some heavy cleanup. The braced auto takes care of business too

[tall torrent]

U can make up for flak with talent tree
The unarmored dmg difference is pretty hard to meet with talents

[tranquil bronze]

So there it is

[junior needle]

Just an important mention, flak is not missable if you aren't taking melee stuff

[golden nacelle]

If I get a Rashad godroll Ill try it out of course, but im pretty damn happy with the performance of my antax

[crisp bronze]

Veteran is actually better for Rashad believe it or not. Veteran has so many passive melee bonuses. Most of Zealots bonuses require some kind of condition or activation. Zealot has higher highs. Veteran has more consistancy.

[shut flax]

Taking crit columnus into aurics has actually been pretty successful so far. Worth it.

[junior needle]

Isn't there a 10% and a 5% melee damage node and that's it?

[golden nacelle]

What? it this an axe FOR ANTS? ...get it... antax...

[tall torrent]

Precision strikes
Desperado
Reciprocity

Reciprocity is better for axe than blazing piety btw

[junior needle]

I'm talking about pure melee damage nodes

[tall torrent]

Yea, pure melee dmg
Precision strikes + desperado

[junior needle]

But yes precision is also there

Well, it's weakspot

[tall torrent]

Reciprocity is just on the way to grab

Axe doesn’t make use out of scourge enough so you’re usually just looking at blazing piety 25% crit

Whereas reciprocity + desperado is 35%

[junior needle]

Do you even want to critmax on the caxes though?

[tall torrent]

It’s not bad

[junior needle]

Wouldnt zealot be taking momentum or marty

For an axe

[tall torrent]

Martyrdom usually

[unborn perch]

Marty, yeah

[tall torrent]

It’s just that vet has some funny breakpoints with Rashad

U can 1 crit overhead a bulwark

[unborn perch]

I would only build for crit with a knife or tactical axe

on zealot

[junior needle]

I'd be very surprised if zealot couldnt hit that with all the melee damage bonuses and duelist

[tall torrent]

And frankly
Just by playing melee normally you have 5%+35% crit chance, why not

[tall torrent]

They prob could
It just takes a bit more activation

Vet gets to do it all the time

Consistency difference

[junior needle]

I'd be very surprised if full marty was exceeded by vet

[crisp bronze]

Veteran has 15% Melee Damage from nodes, Desperado for 10% Crit Chance and 25% Finesse Bonus, Precision Strikes for 30% Weakpoint Damage, and Trench Fighter for 10% Melee Attack Speed. These are all completely passive. Any Rashad breakpoint Zealot can reach with stacks of whatever, Veteran can hit that all the time.

[tall torrent]

Vet also has 15% elite and 20% Ogryn/monster which may or may not further change stuff

[crisp bronze]

Not to mention Shout being a better ability than Chorus in most situations.

[junior needle]

Zealot has like 56% melee damage from marty alone

Oh true, those two talents

[tall torrent]

I think u can discount 20% ogryn cuz zealot has +20% unyielding/infested

[junior needle]

Melee damage being higher value than weakspot

[elfin stump]

Doesn't weapon specialist also give a lot

[tall torrent]

Weapon specialist gives better dodges & atk speed, but not dmg

[junior needle]

Ogryn applies to crushers but unyielding/infested doesn;t

[eternal venture]

Zealot does have higher toughness resist with martyrdom

Something else to remember

[tall torrent]

Not a big deal cuz fury downgrades armor anyway

For that bulwark 1 crit overhead I think zealot can do, just takes more “preparation”

Whereas veteran can do it as long as it crits

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, fury makes it easier too

[eternal venture]

Also, Zealots get invuln frames on slide

[tall torrent]

It’s just that for axe specifically veteran usually will outperform zealot

[eternal venture]

And they have more toughness resist and toughness regen talents

[tall torrent]

Scourge is a really strong talent that is basically never online for axe zealot

[white minnow]

all classes get ranged i-frames on slidees

[eternal venture]

So while vet might actually outperform zealot in pure damage

[white minnow]

zealots used to have 100% toughness DR on slides but that's no longer the case

[eternal venture]

Zealot has more frontline sustain

[eternal venture]

Oh did that get nerfed

That must have happened when I took a break from playing the game

[tall torrent]

Vet melee is like
10% more dmg than zealot but 80% worse survivability

[civic knot]

Lol

Buy?

[white minnow]

stuff relating to toughness DR depending on your movement state was changed some time ago yeah

[eternal venture]

I did a quick google search and couldn’t find anything on the side invuln getting nerfed

[tall torrent]

Zealot has so many dmg reduction stuff u can stack

[eternal venture]

I see

[white minnow]

i think it was patch 13 that changed that stuff

that or 14

[junior needle]

If it were even weapons, zealot would still win due to having more access to asp and the tree just being more melee oriented.

[white minnow]

e.g., vet no longer has 200% toughness damage on sprint

[tall torrent]

Usable if u want it

[eternal venture]

Zealot has tons of damage resistance layers yeah

[crisp bronze]

Out of the box, Veteran is a better melee class than Zealot. Once Zealot gets going the scale tips. But take Martyrdom for example. It is very powerful. But it also requires you to play a very dangerous style. Veteran can be dummy good in melee while at full hp without sacrificing Curios either.

[eternal venture]

And also Second Wind restoring toughness on every successful dodge

[tranquil bronze]

Did a comparison between my old XII and the new XII in the psychanium on Damnation. Not a huge difference of damage against flak targets.

[tall torrent]

Second wind my beloved

[junior needle]

Well you can also take momentum

[white minnow]

though even martyrdom has until death and holy rev to offset the risk

[junior needle]

that too

[eternal venture]

Even if you go Piety or Momentum, you still have a lot of frontline sustain

[tall torrent]

If vet had second wind it would be so over

[white minnow]

joever

[tranquil bronze]

The only real flak threats is the mauler and the rager

[white minnow]

third wind

[civic knot]

Change into dumdum and crit chance to flak?

[eternal venture]

Zealot ALSO gets Thy Wrath Be Swift

[tall torrent]

U could

[eternal venture]

Which is an incredible talent for a melee class since it works on bullets as well

[elfin stump]

Gunners and shotgunners are also flak

[tall torrent]

Ngl
I think zealot get taxed harder than veteran rn

There’re so many strong talents on zealot’s tree

[tranquil bronze]

Yes but their heads are easy to hit

[elfin stump]

My biggest life improvement was being able to one tap shooters in the bodies

[tranquil bronze]

flak ragers and maulers are a different story

[eternal venture]

Yeah they definitely do run into choice tax lol

[crisp bronze]

They are both extremely good. It depends a good deal on the fantasy you want to play and your own playstyle. They favour different things.

[eternal venture]

Though it’s more because there’s so much good stuff and you want it all

Compared to vet, where you have to make actual sacrifices

[tall torrent]

Melee vet doesn’t have point tax problem as long as u don’t branch into “what if I wanted to be a sharpshooter at the same time”

[eternal venture]

True

[crisp bronze]

Me making a melee build with Exe stance and smokes because fuck gunners:

[tall torrent]

I can’t even call that a bad playstyle, that’s commitment

[junior needle]

It can be both

[barren cave]

what perks and blessings for power sword 6?

[eternal venture]

Legit the only two ‘bad’ areas of zealot’s entire tree are:

• The left two cluster talents on Blazing Piety
• The left two talents leading to Beacon of Purity

[crisp bronze]

It was pretty fun. Did more monster dps than my other melee setups because Columnus exe stance shreds. Or even exe stance with the fanning revolver, not that shreds monsters. I once 2 magged a beast of nurgle with a damage stimm.

[tranquil bronze]

@junior needleYeah the blessing swaps was indeed the right call. Meatgrinder with Damnation is showing not a huge difference in damage outputagainst flak targets between the two guns.

So a XII with flak and one without, is still a two shot headshot without crit against a flak gunner.

[strange sparrow]

What’s the definition of bad here again?

[eternal venture]

They’re just not worth it compared to the other two talents you could take in those situations

[crisp bronze]

I actually used the left 2 Talents leading to Beacon of Purity when I was leveling my Zealot. That 30% Reload Speed helps the Flamer a lot. Then again I became addicted the the Flamer and knives combo at level 12 so I am not normal lol.

[strange sparrow]

Hm, I would argue the start of the zealot middle tree too

[eternal venture]

Nah the reload is fine honestly

I was actually thinking of the impact talent, which is on the right side of the tree leading to BoP

[crisp bronze]

I imagine it being really good for the Revolver.

[strange sparrow]

Too much range option for a character that want to be a tank

[eternal venture]

You mean the talents leading to fire nades?

[tall torrent]

That impact talent is very good with crusher

[strange sparrow]

Yes, arguably the only thing good there is the fire nade

[junior needle]

Don't forget to take rending strikes in your tree, it helps with both the shit damage to flak and the reverse damage falloff.

[strange sparrow]

Left and right tree are superior in some way or another

[eternal venture]

Yeah I see what you mean, though I think Voice of Terra works on fire bases

[eternal venture]

Oh yeah I was gonna say

Some weapons even like the impact talent

Crusher and Ironhelm specifically

It’s just a niche talent

[strange sparrow]

Some cases, a lot of stuff in Zealot isn’t getting used imo because how insignificant it feel compared to tool tip

[eternal venture]

I put ‘bad’ in quotes because they’re not actively trolling or useless

[strange sparrow]

So is veteran/psyker until certain play style

[eternal venture]

Blazing Piety’s 50% toughness talent and crit chance share talents are overshadowed by 10% more crit though

Those talents need some love

[strange sparrow]

Also the fact I stop taking blazing piety for my Crit build if I can slot shred somewhere

It’s just not that great Crit compared to Marty

A lot of TDR a lot of Damage a lot of attack speed

[eternal venture]

The best part of the tree leading to piety is actually the crit cdr talent

[strange sparrow]

Yes unironically

[eternal venture]

It’s a little sad lol

[strange sparrow]

The Crit 1.5 seconds is the best for the left tree

[crisp bronze]

Purge the Unclean actually took my flamer from 500 Dps against Unyielding up to nearly 1000. I don't know the math but middle tree seems to be really good for the Flamer in general. The toughness on ranged kill for example. Flamer is like, the perfect weapon for that.

[eternal venture]

I feel like Piety needs a few tweaks to be less one-note

[strange sparrow]

While you get more over momentum and middle

[eternal venture]

Even though it’s a good node

[tall torrent]

Should just rework it tbh

[eternal venture]

Yeah those talents could be replaced honestly

[strange sparrow]

Yes Ranged weapon is absurdly good for middle tree but I don’t build middle because I love what other give in the start

Crit give TDR for 4 seconds / heavy kill replenishment 7.5% and disdain

[eternal venture]

50% toughness restore doesn’t mean much when you can’t control when you get it

[tall torrent]

Is restoring faith still worth taking rn

[strange sparrow]

It’s alright imo, I tend to survive better when I’m fighting a deep horde

[eternal venture]

Middle tree is almost worth it for fire nades alone

Restoring Faith works for Martyr builds

[tall torrent]

Non-martyr doesn’t need?

[eternal venture]

Since it allows you to health gate wounds with Bleed for the Emperor

I take it outside of martyr just for the fire nades

[strange sparrow]

And left ability allow me to control when I really need crits and toughness

[eternal venture]

It’s nice recovering a bit of damage after eating a mauler sideswipe

But I wouldn’t go out of my way to grab it alone

[strange sparrow]

I would get out of my way to get flame nade if the other 2 tree start isn’t so strong

[tall torrent]

Sustained assault is very strong right?

[eternal venture]

Yeah

It’s a bit of a pain to grab it if you take Chastise

But it’s worth it if you can afford the points

[tall torrent]

I’m sacrificing second wind for it

Taking vicious offering instead

[crisp bronze]

Yeah I know all of the bonuses are generic ranged bonuses. But a lot of them seem to work especially good for the Flamer. I've been considering doing a dedicated middle tree build. Still grabbing knives dipping the middle for PtU and going middle for BoP and Chorus finishing with Blazing piety for Chorus spam. Sit in the backline and protect the squishy witches with my life.

[tall torrent]

But I just don’t have shield of contempt

[strange sparrow]

The take less damage for your team and you ?

[eternal venture]

Second Wind is almost worth taking over a little more damage honestly

[tall torrent]

Yea

[eternal venture]

But that depends on the weapon

[strange sparrow]

I feel it’s not that great? But just IMO

Because half the time it’s not on me

[eternal venture]

It’s strong and also dumb because you hardly notice when it kicks in

And you can’t control it

[tall torrent]

Vicious offering is +7.5% toughness on heavy atk kill

I have a pretty good roll mk6 heavy sword so I just loop heavies

[strange sparrow]

Sounds about right

[eternal venture]

It’s like Barkskin from Vermintide

[tall torrent]

Deathblow 4 kills in one heavy

[eternal venture]

Oh you’re using Hsword

[tall torrent]

+28% toughness

[eternal venture]

Yeah that should be fine then

[tall torrent]

[strange sparrow]

I think you also took 20% against unyielding there which increased damage against boss

[eternal venture]

I was thinking Rashad lul

[tall torrent]

I mostly just run heavy sword & crusher tbh

[strange sparrow]

Man, I don’t understand the preach about Hsword in zealot

I tried it and it doesn’t feel that great?

[tall torrent]

Not too interested in running the same melee weapons as my vet

[eternal venture]

Crusher is so fun

[severe adder]

is this worth buying for brutal momentum?

[tall torrent]

U gotta play deathblow + headtaker

[strange sparrow]

Buying for blessing ? Always

[tall torrent]

It does so much damage it’s disgusting

[strange sparrow]

Maybe that’s why

[severe adder]

ok thx

[strange sparrow]

I will change the blessing soon and give it a try

[tall torrent]

Deathblow is BM but different name

[severe adder]

whats a good axe for veteran

[strange sparrow]

Rashad but it cost so much to get good with it

[severe adder]

whys that

[tall torrent]

Imagine combat axe except u not only kill 4 in one strike but can cleave extra on top of that

[strange sparrow]

Funny breakpoint that you could hit from what I heard

[tall torrent]

One of the hardest weapons to roll for (period)

[severe adder]

whats a more viable investmnet option?

[tall torrent]

DC sword or chainsword

[strange sparrow]

Axe? It’s not going easy for you imo

[tall torrent]

Chainsword prob easiest to get into

[strange sparrow]

Do Chainsword instead

[tall torrent]

U can’t go wrong with chainsword

[strange sparrow]

C-sword is versatile and doesn’t need a lot of investment to get strong

[severe adder]

this is the best chainsword i got after a while :/

i dont really have a lot of blessings, looking to get better but what blessings do i go for?

[tall torrent]

Wrath + rampage

[strange sparrow]

Wraith is buggy thou

Or intended idk

Missing melee attack remove stack

While shred doesn’t

[frail bolt]

this is... unfortunate...

[unborn perch]

I gotta have bloodletter on my chain weapons. I can deal with slightly less hoard clear but I can't deal with shitty boss damage.

[strange sparrow]

This is Sadge

On the flip side

You’re saved also

[tall torrent]

Which chain weapon

[strange sparrow]

You want 80 damage and 80 stopping and 80 charge rate on Mk2

[frail bolt]

yeah... i can at least get infernus 3

[unborn perch]

All of them honestly, BL is on all of them.

[strange sparrow]

I believe below 76% miss you out in some breakpoint

I could be wrong

[tall torrent]

For Chainaxe maybe
The chainswords I feel ur just better off going pure horde clear

[unborn perch]

They get savage sweep, right?

[strange sparrow]

Also charged shot doesn’t have inverse falloff damage (technically) so always charge your Mk2 shot

[strange sparrow]

The new chainsword? Nah it’s super fast so just get more damage

[tall torrent]

Just harvest, it’s over

[frail bolt]

already did. rip

[strange sparrow]

Damage is more of a problem than cleave for me with the new chainsword

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-gosling-its-over-over-blade-runner2049-blade-runner-gif-24854081

[strange sparrow]

Because I want to (1hit kill)

[unborn perch]

I tested all of them for veteran today, so I know which one to chase. I settlled on the mk12 orestes chaxe. I'm not a fan of the swords. But If I took a c-sword I would take savage sweep and bloodletter.