veteran-class

[strange sparrow]

Im not sure is it still a thing

[muted knot]

This

[frank ether]

those charts are old so Idk

[round jetty]

alr word

[muted knot]

Finesse is important

[strange sparrow]

This

[muted knot]

Cleave damage less so

[frank ether]

this is perfect

[strange sparrow]

Finesse is the most important stats

[round jetty]

good cause thats my original power sword

[strange sparrow]

cuz attack speed

[frank ether]

the first one is also fine btw

[frank ether]

swap rampage for BM or sunder and you're golden

[round jetty]

i dunno i found rampage to be good on damnation

[frank ether]

your choice

its not bad

brutal momentum is just better

[strange sparrow]

@muted knot You can check in normal data set (inspect), your normal Hellbore shot only do 190¬

[round jetty]

ill look at them

[strange sparrow]

But FS being FS

you don't do 190 damage against Crusher

[strange sparrow]

[frank ether]

sunder is good for spamming lights at elites/carapace

brutal momentum is best cleave

[sharp ember]

ogryn highlight node needs its ogryn/monster damage bonus back

i guarantee their usage metrics have it at the bottom

[frank ether]

I dont think those numbers state charged shots

but uncharged ones

I might be wrong on this

but the data stated in game just never added up to what you hit for helbores

[sharp ember]

it has a secondary list for charged shots

[strange sparrow]

There is a secondary List for Charged Shot

[sharp ember]

but it doesn’t account for charged shot armor penetration

[strange sparrow]

But those Charged shot doesnt make sense

[frank ether]

oh? never noticed that.

[strange sparrow]

because FUCKIN FATSHARK

[sharp ember]

yeah…

[frank ether]

this is why I test by shooting things

I'm not smart with numbers

and I won't pretend like I am lmao

[round jetty]

fatshart

[strange sparrow]

It's more like they gave us a shit excel table

then say this is cara damage

[sharp ember]

a person would never know helbores penetrated carapace if they only looked at the damage table

[frank ether]

on one hand

I respect games that give you very little info

and let you figure shit out

on the other hand there are games that try to give you info but fail

[strange sparrow]

I dont respect the game using different tooltip to describe the same thing

[sharp ember]

“+3 rending”

[strange sparrow]

Do you know MF Toughness Replenishment give you better toughness replenishment in actuality?

while Ogryn one doesnt?

[frank ether]

either way at least it plays cool you know

[strange sparrow]

So like wtf man

[frank ether]

helbased very cool

I recommend

[strange sparrow]

I wouldnt recommend Mk3 to anyone because how long it charged up to reach 5 stack of Onslaught

and the terrible bayo

[frank ether]

but is it even worth taking over confirmed kill?

[strange sparrow]

Mk1 and 2 is very fun

[strange sparrow]

I would recommend if you take Exec Stances

[frank ether]

my helbore build will naturally take close order drill since exec has zero ways of panic toughness replenishment

[strange sparrow]

Tunnel Vision doesn't conflict with anything

[frank ether]

so I have a choice between CK and MF toughness node

but I always choose CK

[strange sparrow]

I find CK harder to proc despite on Auric Mael

But that's just my personal experiences

[frank ether]

mf toughness node is worded in a confusing way

I dont understand what it even does

[strange sparrow]

Trust me, I dont even know how to describe it

I just suggest people take it if you dont have VoC

[sharp ember]

is it basically like our grey +10% team toughness recovery node

but only for us

[strange sparrow]

@muted knot

Just for your references

[sharp ember]

and gated behind a stack requirement

[strange sparrow]

Why does the graph say it have bonus

[frank ether]

this is the part that turns me off of it

not that I suck at headshotting

[strange sparrow]

Im not gonna say anything about this because other people told me toughness replenishment work in specific manner for MF which also work in specific manner on Psyker

[frank ether]

but this is a very melee invested game

and mf just doesnt do shit when you're on your melee

CK does proc just fine

CK doesn't care how I killed the elite

[sharp ember]

been a fan of Out For Blood + CK lately

nice to get extra toughness from any method of killing

i’d always take it if Vanguard wasn’t taxing a point

[frank ether]

out for blood is fun

but I still end up taking middle nodes for toughness dr

to compliment it

I also find the speed path rly fun

like %5 speed node then speed aura

[sharp ember]

i’ve been going all-in and taking tac reload while i’m over there too for my brauto build

[frank ether]

but uh.. smokes

smokes ruin it

the moment they buff smokes I'll make a build around it

[strange sparrow]

Make smoke just do white phophorus stuff

burn people alive

[sharp ember]

had a teammate who genuinely forgot smonks existed

[frank ether]

you know there are many ways they could go about it

[sharp ember]

and got scared thinking it was a new enemy when i popped one

[frank ether]

hahaha

thats amazing

its best used to troll your teammates anyways

also thinking about this

it could make a cool AI event

[sharp ember]

if smonks snuffed flames i would run them way more

and blocked snipers

[frank ether]

kinda like random monstrosity spawn

but instead you get ambushed

[sharp ember]

i like the way they ruin vision for specials like flamers and trappers

makes them blindly run into melee and die

[frank ether]

It hurts you more than it hurts the specials if I'm being honest

because what often happens is

enemies keep spawning and piling up

[strange sparrow]

I want an event that spawn fun boss occasionally

that you shouldn't be just killing him

need to do other specific stuff to kill him

GTFO kinda enemies you know

[frank ether]

yea

well

variety is cool

[strange sparrow]

I introduce you, The Mother

[frank ether]

I like that we have stims now btw

oh not these fuckers

[strange sparrow]

[weak token]

she seems submissive and breedable

[strange sparrow]

Totally

[frank ether]

I still vividly remember

the first time I had to face one of these

we uh..

we lost that game

[gusty bison]

OfB is criminally underrated

Its so good

[weak token]

lost to the mother?

[frank ether]

right path is so full of amazing talents and its all brought down by smoke grenade and pathing inefficiencies imo

people bend so damn hard to avoid smokes

that they waste like 3-4 nodes

[gusty bison]

Its amusing that OfB is just a way better version of Zealot's on kill talent

[strange sparrow]

Tbh, there's also Movement speed Aura

Which is uh

yea

also +5 Damage

[gusty bison]

Its not a bad aura as all things go

Its just surv is OPAF

[frank ether]

well wasnt the direct cause of our demise

but yea

[strange sparrow]

It's not bad but it's not great

it's kinda like one of those aura that's

FUCK IT WE BALL

[gusty bison]

FUCK BALL WE IT

[weak token]

if only u can stac the movespeed

[frank ether]

I think you'd like it a lot more if smokes were actual protective utility

[gusty bison]

Right side just suffers from pathing issues atm

[weak token]

i'd rather not have free vent purge

[gusty bison]

With survivalist being the glaring problem

[gusty bison]

Run into the smoke

[frank ether]

thats another pain point with it

[gusty bison]

U can see it while in it

[strange sparrow]

Movement speed aura enjoyer

[frank ether]

these two survivors are like

can you aim or not

kinda vibe

[strange sparrow]

these 2 survivors cannot fuckin aim

Seriously thou, make it 10% MS

Then we will talk about it

Gonna super ball

[frank ether]

I mean you get %10 total with the node included

[weak token]

i mean , that's vent purge

[frank ether]

but I wouldn't scoff at removing the node and making the aura %10

[strange sparrow]

10% + 10% + Knife MS

it's fuckin fun especially you get the gang to do Knife

[weak token]

i said it before, i'll say it again, make it suppress gunner horde, not block their line of sight

[frank ether]

I think knife alone is enough

to outrun

most stuff

[strange sparrow]

Knife alone is enough to outrun almost everything

But don't you wanna go faster

[frank ether]

nah

[strange sparrow]

[weak token]

make smoke bomb apply constant suppression to stuff within, turn it into a pseudo stun

[strange sparrow]

disappointment

[gusty bison]

Slow down. Smell the roses

:P

[frank ether]

I think it already sorta does that

enemies just run out of it

or at least thats what I remember

[strange sparrow]

It does

[weak token]

that's why its not suppression

[gusty bison]

Tbf melee vet loves vet purge :P

[gusty bison]

Suppression makes enemies run for cover

[weak token]

if its constant suppression, they'd be ducking constantly and not moving

[strange sparrow]

Exec Stances Hellbore user love Vent Purge

All these Plasma CIAG gamer not in my game

[gusty bison]

Thats high suppression

[strange sparrow]

[weak token]

then make it do high suppression

[gusty bison]

Make then run around?

Thats literally high suppression

[weak token]

rn the only reason they run out is cuz they got nothing to shoot

[weak token]

then which is this ^

[frank ether]

I'm guessing the point of smoke is likely to be gapcloser for melee veteran

[weak token]

as long as the smoke bomb makes gunners not move and shoot, instead of just running out as if smokes were a minor inconvenience, i'd be happy

[gusty bison]

Stage 2 suppression while they have cover

[gusty bison]

Gunners will move and shoot if they get suppressed while out of cover

[frank ether]

and if thats the purpose just making it more transparent would help

smokes do kill visibility for allies

[gusty bison]

Dont throw smokes at the gunner

Throw smokes at ur own feet

[strange sparrow]

Dont throw smoke

Got it

[gusty bison]

Things inside smoke can shoot out

[weak token]

it sucks to use it in any way honestly

[frank ether]

thats what works well in practice but I feel like it probably wasnt the dev intention

[gusty bison]

Things outside smoke cant shoot in

[frank ether]

well

[weak token]

first time i used it i just end up confused

[frank ether]

some can

[weak token]

my stats were especially low

[frank ether]

gunners will still shred into the smoke

[gusty bison]

Snipers. But ye

[weak token]

anytime anyone's used it i get confused

[frank ether]

if gunners saw you prior

[gusty bison]

Gunners will blind fire ye

[frank ether]

they'll keep shooting into it

[weak token]

especially randos that throw it when there's no gunners

like they'd throw it during a normal horde

[gusty bison]

Smokes have a light stagger

[weak token]

and then suddenly crushers appeared

like fk that sucks

[frank ether]

see

if you had shredders instead

[gusty bison]

Generally the way to use smokes atm is to fight in it

[frank ether]

there would be nothing but crushers left

[gusty bison]

Not around it

So when a smoke drops u run into it

[strange sparrow]

FIghting in it sucks

[gusty bison]

Eh its not that bad

Shit outside cant shoot in

Effectively anyway

Just gotta be careful of snipers and blind gunner fire

[wanton dawn]

Smoke lacks ompf

They def need a more noticiable effect

Besides vision griefing

[weak token]

really just dislike it, if they stop stuff inside it except certain enemies from moving or attacking, i'd take that

[terse idol]

Fighting inside at least means you can see

[weak token]

make it a constant suppression with combo potential with aoe dmg like fire grenades or psyker trauma staff

[frank ether]

this has gotta be the best way to describe it

[wanton dawn]

Fire suppression would be neet

[terse idol]

Also gunners will only shoot into it if they were already shooting if they weren't shooting they'll get really confused

[weak token]

yea that too, fire suppression

[gusty bison]

It stops ranged from shooting u effectively while ur in it

[gusty bison]

Constant suppression will just make all the ranged enemies run out

[weak token]

they just run out, and besides the ranged dudes, it has little to no effect

[frank ether]

yeah smokes cutting out fires was my number one idea for making smokes relevant

[gusty bison]

Even if they run out they cant shoot into the smoke

[terse idol]

I think it'd be too strong but it'd be okay

[frank ether]

it would give them a use in tight spaces

[terse idol]

At minimum I want to see it block snipers

[weak token]

well, they cant see u, u cant see them

[frank ether]

''oh floor is lava let me pop a smoke'' would be a cool use

[gusty bison]

U can see them

If ur in smoke u can see out

Out cant see in

Its why throwing smoke on top of a gunner is stupid.

Throw it at ur feet

[weak token]

i.. im not really sure about that, my experiences within smokes are just "im legally blind"

[gusty bison]

Or where u wanna go

[strange sparrow]

Free ventilation purge mode

The only time I bring smoke is to meme bong cloud in some elevator map

Which also didn’t work

Sadge

[gusty bison]

Smoke is solid in the amphitheater if u dont feel like corner camping

Cos that map will shit out a hundred gunners

[still nebula]

Hey!! I'm glad you enjoyed this video. I'm trying to make content that is both fun to watch and useful to other DT players (it is also why I always accompany my videos with detailed written guides that -hopefully- add value to the player community)

That said, I will agree with other's in this chat who said that usually people hate on what they don't yet understand 🙂

[gusty bison]

More like.

Its not the metaslave loadout so its "trash" kekrat

Tbf bolter I will say is the lazy man's gun

[strange sparrow]

My Mentality right now about the game

[gusty bison]

Easy AF to use, but probably not gonna be as insane as some other guns with great aim

[gusty bison]

Revolver S tier. Plasma S tier. Everything else F tier

[strange sparrow]

CIAG S Tier Powersword S Tier. Everything else is me playing harder game

[gusty bison]

Ngl I think CIAG is not that common

[strange sparrow]

CIAG require you to aim tbh

[gusty bison]

Mostly cos it requires actual effort behind it since it doesnt shoot logs

Ye

Unlike revolver

Which shoots tree trunks

[still nebula]

something like that, yeah.
I also think if they increase the bullet "cleave" of the Bolter (not penetration in a line, but "explosion radius") it will automatically become "META" again lol

[strange sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/missed-shot-basketball-lakers-gif-11423573

What all revolver gamer expecting

It's worth 3 point

[gusty bison]

Eh Ive always felt the explosion part of the bolter doesnt do much

Its a mild stagger

Thats it

The main thing with the bolter is its no longer completely braindead.

[strange sparrow]

I mean I really want Bolter to work well without talent investment

[gusty bison]

So people who used to use it now use plasma or volver

And people who want a gun to sweat with use CIAG, Helbore or HH

[still nebula]

yeah now imagine if you could kinda "cleave" mixed hordes with your ranged weapon - which by the way makes karking sense when you shoot a karking bolter - that'd be a game changer

[gusty bison]

Frankly? Wouldnt make that big of a difference to me

[frank ether]

I've been fighting with boltgun victim complex here for months now

it makes me come out like I'm toxic because I don't know how to be encouraging lmao

[weak token]

boltgun victim? u mean how boltgun is secretly not that bad?

[gusty bison]

Its not a secret.

Like

[weak token]

or how boltgun is actually terrible?

[frank ether]

the first

its just not that baddd

[thick rose]

I want to boltgun

[gusty bison]

Since P14 its been tested and tried.

Its no plasma but its not bad at all

[frank ether]

the only bad part about boltgun is the lack of more marks

[gusty bison]

People just tend to use it wrong cos they are used to P12 bolter

[thick rose]

the animation when you pull it out is annoying

[strange sparrow]

Could be negated through some mechanics

[frank ether]

I want a boltpistol I want a braced boltgun meant more for spamming etc

give me more

[strange sparrow]

I think people has been sliding with Boltgun mechanics?

something like that

[thick rose]

just on a why fatshark level, racking every time is bad

[gusty bison]

But yea the main thing why I personally wouldnt find it a game changer is cos I can reliably jump shot with bolter

[rough cobalt]

What upgrades should i get in plasmagun for twins? (want to finish damnation but with lasgun it's harder)

[thick rose]

or whatever its called, im in a no gun country

charging?

[strange sparrow]

My hate with boltgun is when I start out with Zealot

[gusty bison]

Balancing factor

Tbh

[thick rose]

so make it slower

[frank ether]

and its fine

[strange sparrow]

It take forever to pullout and Magdumping doesn't kill everything that Im expecting to

[gusty bison]

Eh

[frank ether]

I think if anything maybe plasma should take equally long time to pull out

[gusty bison]

They did?

[thick rose]

make it a inty bit faster and make the animation not annoying to me

[gusty bison]

Like you dont actually pull the charging handle

[thick rose]

please

thanks

[gusty bison]

Its a forward slap

Not a backwards pull

[frank ether]

I havent experienced boltgun on zealot yet

but I will soon

[gusty bison]

Bolter on zealot is ASS

It loses all the reasons to bring it on vet

[frank ether]

I'm planning on a crit build for zealot bolter with blazing piety

[weak token]

only mechanics ik that can fix this is using executioner stance to switch, or throw a throwing knife while pulling it out

[gusty bison]

Not much matters tbh

Carapace

[pearl granite]

is haymaker good on knife?

[frank ether]

it can be good option on the new knife

since it has some okay cleave on heavies

but do you like rng mechanics?

[gusty bison]

Mmmm... might make the mark

Im not sure if zealot has enough ranged damage boosts to hit 1.4k crit bodyshots

[frank ether]

this is why I feel like bolter needs more marks

to fit different niches better

current one is more of a marksman weapon

[gusty bison]

Yep

[frank ether]

and if I'm not mistaken

[strange sparrow]

Isn't that because it does more damage over the range

[frank ether]

its damage is reverse scaling

[gusty bison]

It doesnt

[gusty bison]

Nope its perfectly flat

[strange sparrow]

They change it or?

[gusty bison]

Vet can make it reverse scaling by longshot

[frank ether]

oh, then its because of longshot and stuff that I have this impression

[gusty bison]

But thats longshot

Ye

[thick rose]

are bolts rocket propelled?

[gusty bison]

And longshot is a braindead pick

[gusty bison]

Yes

[frank ether]

longshot is really good

[frank ether]

but zealot gets that close range talent

[strange sparrow]

There is from what I saw, probably could test this out

[frank ether]

which is even better

[gusty bison]

Ayr

Well

[thick rose]

so more dmg far away would be kinda right

[gusty bison]

Under 8m is not where u usually use a bolter

[frank ether]

whats the range scaling for that zealot blessing

the one thats like

%30 something damage

does it just cease past 8m?

[gusty bison]

Under 8m 25%

[frank ether]

oh wait

[gusty bison]

Above 8m nada

0

[frank ether]

does it drop to zero

[gusty bison]

Nothing

[frank ether]

oh my god

[strange sparrow]

That's not true

[frank ether]

ok that explains everything lmao

[strange sparrow]

It's scaling longshot

I tested it before

[frank ether]

I bet thats why zealots hate bolter

[terse idol]

So its 25% at 1m

[gusty bison]

We talking about zealot's talent

I know it drops to 0 at 8m

[terse idol]

If it scaling like Longshot

[strange sparrow]

Annoit in Blood?

[frank ether]

hmm

that would be a lot better if it at least scaled up to 15 meters

[gusty bison]

Ye

[strange sparrow]

I could probably test it

[gusty bison]

Its a good talent... on other guns

[frank ether]

that you can work with but 8m is NOTHING

[gusty bison]

Not the bolter

[rare tartan]

guys what does impact on melee weapons ?

[frank ether]

impact is stun

stagger

[gusty bison]

Impact causes stagger

Stagger is when enemies get knocked around by ur swings

When staggered enemies cant attack

[rare tartan]

so i guess this shovel 1 better then ? 2

[gusty bison]

1 is better

Cos u can swap out limbsplitter for thrust

Although personally i like Mk 3 over mk 7

[frank ether]

I would just absorb uncanny out of that first one and put it on a better shovel

[gusty bison]

Slurp

[frank ether]

funnily enough

I dont see anyone using uncanny on new shovels

[gusty bison]

Me

[frank ether]

people just go for power instead

[gusty bison]

:3

[frank ether]

what do you go for?

limbsplitter on second slot?

[gusty bison]

Uncanny thrust

[strange sparrow]

15 m - 302
4m - 342
8 m - 331

[frank ether]

thrust

interesting

[strange sparrow]

with Annoit in blood

[gusty bison]

For the special heavy

[frank ether]

I do limbsplitter+thrust

[rare tartan]

i use chainsword anyway was just curious

[strange sparrow]

10 m - 320

[strange sparrow]

It does not drop into 0 flat

[rare tartan]

mega cleave sword 😄

[gusty bison]

What gun

Bolter?

[strange sparrow]

Yes

I only do one shot on each target

[frank ether]

I think this would be better with rampage instead of SS

[gusty bison]

Hum i might be wrong then

[frank ether]

or well

hang on

what power blessings do chsword get?

[rare tartan]

yeah i know , i just dont have it yet

[frank ether]

do you have slaughterer or headtaker on chsword?

[muted knot]

When you really need to hit everything in arms reach

[strange sparrow]

Also you get more damage by shooting long range with Bolter

[muted knot]

We have rampage

[strange sparrow]

Some weird sniper mechanics

[frank ether]

actually rampage might not be ideal for new chsword

cause it has narrow attacks

[gusty bison]

Thats vet longshot

[strange sparrow]

I think Ryken does a good mechanics description on the weapon

[strange sparrow]

Nope

It work on Zealot too

[muted knot]

That's the old one innit ?

[strange sparrow]

[rare tartan]

i mean with those blessings i clear trash like a butter

[frank ether]

new one is like all strikedowns

[strange sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnpmWNdIN38&t=75s You could watch his math breakdown

[muted knot]

I can't remember the marks for chainswords

[strange sparrow]

He give Excel sheet so I trust him

[frank ether]

if it had like slaughterer that would work so much better

or headtaker

[gusty bison]

Ye

[frank ether]

anything that doesnt neccessarily mean hitting minimum of 3 targets

[rare tartan]

you mean move set ?

[frank ether]

cus its a single target weapon

mainly

[gusty bison]

New chainswoed swings downwards

[rare tartan]

for cadia overhead and right/left side

[frank ether]

see this is what I like about chainaxes

I got straightforward power blessings

[rare tartan]

does shredder btw counts also for light attacks ?

[muted knot]

No

[frank ether]

shredder is only the rev attacks

[rare tartan]

rev attack ? you mean special ?

[muted knot]

Yes

[rare tartan]

well heavy overhead shredds to

a little

[strange sparrow]

The New Chainsword is alright

[frank ether]

I think its let down by blessings available to chswords

[strange sparrow]

I run a weird blessing deck rn

[muted knot]

Okay so if that's the CS with the strikedown swings why would I want cleave ?

[strange sparrow]

Funnier enough, you could double hit some of the wave

[muted knot]

Like two hits on one target ?

[strange sparrow]

Yea but that's just what I observe in my game

[frank ether]

I guess wraith/shred could be a cool roll for it

but uh

veteran really doesnt get a lot of juice for melee crit builds

I'd rather use that on zealot

crit zealot goes hard

[strange sparrow]

My current Chainsword build is funny/weird instead now

[sharp ember]

the new chsword has horde clear lights, so it still has a valid reason to take cleave

[strange sparrow]

Shred does super good

[frank ether]

shred is funny on zealot you get to spam your ability

[untold mulch]

Unlimited crit

[strange sparrow]

So New Csword L2 and L3 can hit multiple target

not the best but it's alrighte

[frank ether]

well damage becomes less of an issue when you crit non stop too

[strange sparrow]

L1 could technically hit 2/3 if you aim it correctly

[frank ether]

I mean you can trigger rampage

its not like its impossible

but thats the irony

its a cleave damage blessing

on a strikedown focused chain weapon

[untold mulch]

I feel like I take less risk vs horde with the XIIIg

[frank ether]

I feel like just saying it out loud already spells the issue

but maybe I don't understand it, I'll admit chswords never rly clicked with me

[muted knot]

What

[untold mulch]

I am constantly refilling toughness with the new Csword

compared to the old one doing heavies against hordes

idk, just feel probably I was using hte old one wrong

[muted knot]

Yeah

Why are you using heavys ?

[strange sparrow]

https://streamable.com/dwzu7y

Its quite easy to trigger

Also I forgot that I spawned some crusher

KekW

[untold mulch]

On the old one? Always felt more eficcient

[rough cobalt]

why lvl 20 are going for damnation twins ffs...

can't win with someone like that

[crude ermine]

Built different

[frank ether]

again the irony is flying above your head but thats fine lol

I don't wanna go cleave on trash packs every 3 seconds elite/specials are present for breakpoints

[strange sparrow]

Rampage give damage thou

Im just saying that it give constant boost and difficult is pretty low with L2

[frank ether]

not as constant as slaughterer/HT

Idk why chsword doesnt get those blessings

[sharp ember]

chainaxes really be hitting

shame they don’t exactly fit guard aesthetic

maybe navy breachers

[frank ether]

chaxe really better rn but only because I can skip having to do special attack for like anything but crusher/mauler packs

light rev kills almost anything

I think chain weapons are just due for a soft rework

they don't really fit how fast the melee game is

[barren cave]

eviscerators are fine

they may need tweaking

but not a rework

[sharp ember]

i find them pretty wieldy now

[frank ether]

thats because you don't special on evis

like %90 of evis gameplay

[sharp ember]

i’m no longer scared of fighting an inordinately large horde with one

[frank ether]

zealot goes monke brain

spam light attack

[barren cave]

I special on evis, thats why I take them

[frank ether]

occasionally press F to gapclose

spam more light attacks

thats evis gameplay there

[barren cave]

you dont spam light on ogryns with evis

or maulers

new chainaxe is pretty good too

[frank ether]

you dont exactly take evis for carapace clear either

[barren cave]

I dont use the one handed chainswords that much, so i dunno about them

[frank ether]

yea they are no longer absolute garbage

but rev attacks are still rough

its fine on evis you go monke cleave and rev is just a bonus

people be hating on powersword vet with its slow ass meanwhile I'm flying across the map on evisc zealot like I'm tf2 demoknight

beheading scab gunners at light speed

I use evisc because of everything BUT the revs

[barren cave]

I just take dclaw for horde clear on vet, and use kraks/ secondary for chunky targets, I cant be bothered using a melee weapon to take down important targets on vet

[frank ether]

yea d.claw is solid defensive on vet

I mainly use it on gun veteran though

[barren cave]

on melee vet I use chainsword or shovel

[frank ether]

usually on deadshot high stamina build

[barren cave]

mostly chainsword

but I dont run melee vet that often

[frank ether]

melee vet I also go for chain weapons, shovel, ps, knife

anything works for melee vet

[barren cave]

dont have a good ps yet

dont necessarily want one either

[frank ether]

Its really powerful but also like

hella overrated

also has some secret downsides you might not expect from how people talk it up so much

but at least you don't self-stun yourself to kill carapace with it

PS actually has some skill floor to it funnily enough

[barren cave]

well thats why I dont run vet with heavy melee investment, because I like having my powerful ranged options for carapace clear

although I still gotta get trench fighter drill if I can get enough free points

[frank ether]

what is the PS skill floor you might ask well mainly its a slow ass weapon and getting hit drains your energized

[frank ether]

I like a good balance

which is the norm

[barren cave]

I like it on every other class, except vet

[frank ether]

most ppl go for

vet is an excellent grenadier

I am very big on that grenade keystone

[barren cave]

because with vet I find melee options for carapace clear is kinda more effort than its worth

and yes

I too spam shredder grenades

with demo team

with all nade nodes except the one that gives you nades from ammo crates tbh

[frank ether]

I mean one of your weapons gotta be able to clear carapace somehow

[barren cave]

yeah for me thats ranged on vet, exclusively

[frank ether]

just a loadout balance thing

like a revolver will do perfectly fine

[barren cave]

bored of revolver, its kinda busted, I mostly run autoguns,plasma or bolter

[frank ether]

I like to do bolter

I have a deadshot bolter build

either take no keystone on it

[barren cave]

I like bolter too, just for the feel of it, sadly my zealot has an excellent bolter and my vet has a mid af bolter

[frank ether]

or focus mark

[barren cave]

so mostly I just run columnus with onslaught

[frank ether]

on vet I recommend trying surgical bolter

veteran has the damage steroids to allow you to just snipe elites across the map

one shot them with a crit

well a lot of them

and still fill a support role for your team with VoC/focus mark

[barren cave]

I go no keystones on vet tbh

because grenade spam plus vet keystones arent that impressive

[frank ether]

I do too most often

[umbral scaffold]

Psword is all you need anyway for carapace clear

[frank ether]

but I also like variety

and I feel like slow pacing of bolter fits focus mark perfectly

[umbral scaffold]

New shovel is also good at it

Though you don't have the brainless left click spam

[barren cave]

yeah thats true, but id mentioned earlier I dont have a good psword yet, and I like my current setup

[umbral scaffold]

I go with melee specialist keystone because it helps a lot for psword

And I don't like reloading

Use it with new shovel too

Basically become unhittable upclose

[barren cave]

shovel is damn good

[umbral scaffold]

But my experience is based on Vermintide 2 melee focus

So using my ranged for extended amounts of time if I don't need it feels like heresy

[barren cave]

id invest a lot more in vet melee if trench fighter drill was just a tad higher up in the tree

that thing is really good

but I dont need it for just dclaw horde clear

[muted knot]

I feel the same way unless I play lasgun vet

[umbral scaffold]

Same

Cos you unironically never run out of ammo for lasgun

( unless it's recon lasgun )

[muted knot]

Yeah it's great

And let's be honest

Whats more guard than a lasgun

[frank ether]

yeah but I feel like its a waste sometimes

either because I have grown past the point of needing it or because the weapon I'm using it is already sufficiently fast (knife)

or its a chainaxe and I don't think you can make the revs any faster lmao

[strange sparrow]

a chainsword

but that's what I call Commisar

[frank ether]

was about to ask do they even give those to regular guardsman

I dont really read much 40k

chainsword or d.claw kinda be like stereotypical commisar weapon

[sharp ember]

chainswords are only for fancy sergeants, squad leaders, and upward

everyone below gets their bayonet to affix

grunts in a melee assault group maybe get some more chainswords, but probably get maces

[frank ether]

its okay

helbore bayonets better than chsword anyways

[sharp ember]

i need a bayonet on kantrael asap

[median merlin]

lmao i love it when i get all veterans

we instantly go into imperial guard mode, and get shit done

[placid portal]

Should add new Lasgun variant of Storm variant to allow you to do the funny bayonet charge scream

[median merlin]

oh neat, got a lawbringer with full bore 4 on it as a reward

the gun is junk, but the blessing is good

[violet wolf]

Would be cool if we can get a either a plasma pistol or a hot shot lasgun 👌🏻

[frank ether]

when I get a 4 vet lobby I panic

because chances are I'll be the only person who knows how to melee at all

double the panic if they all using executioner

[median merlin]

we do have a hotshot, the helbores are a hotshot lasgun. they just don't have the backpack

[serene orbit]

not that bad, right? 🥲

Should I keep shred and change out the perks for flakiac? Or keep unarmored and grab flak and Wrath

[umbral scaffold]

ye they're too expensive for grunts unless they come from a rich world

[umbral scaffold]

a lot of them only get bayonets too

[torpid sundial]

helbore mk 2 surgical :^)

[umbral scaffold]

not even sords

[median merlin]

lmao what

[torpid sundial]

arguably usable

[elfin stump]

Surgical gonna take longer anyway so

[median merlin]

that's why i'm laughing at it.

its absurd

[umbral scaffold]

ironically

that's still better than other guns you can use-

:^)

lol

plasma op

[pale spear]

Are the high damage, low rate of fire guns just the supperior generalist in allmost every weapon group?

[trim hemlock]

Certainly not. There’s an argument for using either Vraks 3 or Vraks 7 Headhunter Autoguns, and Columnus 5 or Agripinaa 1 IAGs

[gusty bison]

No.

Th MG1a, Helbore 2, columnus iag, accatran 6d all like to disagree

In fact the mg12 is the worst among the iLas

[stuck gorge]

Is power sword worth using?

[umbral scaffold]

ye

both versions are actually op

[gusty bison]

Ps6 > Ps3

Fwiw

[umbral scaffold]

as in
actually op, the newer psword is better

but yeah both are good

[gusty bison]

But PS3 is easier to use

[stuck gorge]

Is it because of stats or just attack pattern

[umbral scaffold]

One is a bit worse than the other

[umbral scaffold]

Attack pattern

[gusty bison]

Attack pattern

[umbral scaffold]

newer one has a really strong push attack ( shove ) into light ( overhead )

[gusty bison]

The PS6 has a flat lights and a mean push attack into strikedown light

[umbral scaffold]

and the lights are vertical swings

her
horizontal*

[gusty bison]

Ps3 relies on flat heavies

[umbral scaffold]

so your entire horde clear routine is
shove, alt attack to power it up, light 3 times, repeat

and for crushers, maulers and the like, you can do that without the shove

[stuck gorge]

What would be its dump stat for when I roll it

[umbral scaffold]

or you can use push shove stabs

[umbral scaffold]

Ideally, nothing

probably the two major downsides of psword

[stuck gorge]

So basically just hope everything is around 70+?

[umbral scaffold]

all the stats are important/useful, AND you need power cycler 4 to have it be really smooth

[umbral scaffold]

ideally, more or less, ye

but I've gotten by with bad powerswords

it'll be fine

it's just that good

Cleave Targets I think is the closest you get to a dumpstat

but you basically need pcycler iv for a "good" powersword anyway

so a lot of your fishing will be specifically for that blessing

[stuck gorge]

I did get pc iii from a drop awhile ago

[umbral scaffold]

it's sufficient
but you'll want iv if you can

[stuck gorge]

I assume it’s just 1 more chained power hit?

[umbral scaffold]

yeah
which is pretty big

[bitter turtle]

You can dump cleave targets with bm

And mobility only needs to be above 50

[umbral scaffold]

I'm biased cos the psword dodge distance is awful

but that's the price you pay for being overpowered

[bitter turtle]

It's going to be not great even if you run an 80 mob psword

[umbral scaffold]

true

[bitter turtle]

It's definitely a dumpstat

Jusr make sure it's above 50 and ir doesn't really matter

In that sense sword stats aren't too bad since 2 can be low

[stuck gorge]

I should be fine since I haven’t really gone into heresy yet

[umbral scaffold]

Oh you'll be fine then

honestly, even if the sword is kinda terrible, if your mechanics are solid, the psword is still easily one of the better/best weapons in the game

as long as you don't have a 0 damage 0 cleave damage sword

[stuck gorge]

Bouta power up to slab a pox walker for 4 dmg!!!

[umbral scaffold]

lemme check if I still have my original psword I was using for damnation/aurics

[umbral scaffold]

damage so low you'll heal them instead

[stuck gorge]

Bouta heal the DH focusing the psyker fr fr

[umbral scaffold]

found it
was pretty mid

was bringing it all the way to aurics/damnation for a while until I got pcycler 4 on a p6
So you should be good

[stuck gorge]

K

[umbral scaffold]

haffun

[serene orbit]

Perks to flakiac or change out shred for wrath?

[forest scaffold]

Lawbringer is actually good

its special round isn't.

But as an actual weapon, its fine.

[median merlin]

i ment the gun itself, the rating, is junk

[forest scaffold]

o

[median merlin]

it's like a 318 or so with crap rolls

but good t4 blessings i can rip off it

[shadow aurora]

I hope lawbringer gets buffed

If they made the special shot go through more enemies it could be a really good horde clear

Or a rework could work i guess

Maybe giving it a lil extra something like a additional effect along side the wide shot

[odd sparrow]

what to change or is it bricked

[umbral scaffold]

honestly you can just change both perks and it'll be good

Glory hunter and infested is probably the ones I'd change

but even Glory hunter isnt' that bad

Plasma doesn't have good blessings other than Gets Hot

[odd sparrow]

flak, maniac or?

[sharp ember]

crit dmg for flak, shred for wrath/savage sweep

unarmored ain’t bad

[wary galleon]

YEESS! LETS GOOOOOOO

FINALLY

[umbral scaffold]

flak and maniac are always safe
can also go flak and unyielding iirc

so you can shred down reapers, bosses ( if you're shooting them ) and bulwarks

[sharp ember]

personally i’m a fan of maniac unyielding

[umbral scaffold]

that works too, ye

[sharp ember]

but i also run exe stance to shortcut a lot of perk-dependent breakpoints

[umbral scaffold]

honestly can't go wrong with Plasma gun as far as I'm concerned

even if you take an extra shot to kill stuff

you're still killing it in record time, and if you know how to manage your ammo properly, you never run dry

[wary galleon]

now for the last part

[umbral scaffold]

make the emperor proud 🫡

If you wanna make it a real challenge do it on Auric Maelstroms

[wary galleon]

might as well try completing it with the game uninstalled

[umbral scaffold]

honestly I think I have that challenge

[serene orbit]

Ty

[umbral scaffold]

maybe I should try it

15 auric maelstroms in a row without getting downed

sounds like cancer

[wary galleon]

that would be absolutely insane

max respect if you managed todo that

[serene orbit]

I dunno, blaze away serves me pretty well

[serene sage]

if i can duo i can probably pull that off

soloq is a little too much variant

[umbral scaffold]

Might as well try
although having some losses means that I need to get even better https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046913589614747719/1191738794454556682/image-92.png?ex=65afc2be&is=659d4dbe&hm=86c8242c8de53d17e8c41295367e2c6d53376d234e054ad5a3ae180034e95f5d&

I play exclusively auric maelstroms/auric damnations but I still randomly die

and it's downs so
can't even make a mistake once

[umbral scaffold]

True
That also works

I'm just unfortunate that I never got it

[serene sage]

i see a lot of zealot play time 🤨

[umbral scaffold]

I keep getting Gloryhunter

[umbral scaffold]

yeah I play every class ( except Ogryn )

Zealot is like 150, Veteran is 110, Psyker is like 90

Ogryn is 22

[serene sage]

don't blame you, ogryn is boring

[umbral scaffold]

but I have a stupid amount of vt 2 experience so I had a leg up from most people who are new to Darktide

[umbral scaffold]

My main issue is just that I can't have precision weapons

which in Auric Damnation/Maelstrom is an oof for me

when I can't comfortably deal with mister sniper or mister bomber
I just kinda die inside

[serene sage]

yeah they just feel slow and clunky
and i can't seem to do damage with them except for kickback (which is way overtuned)

[umbral scaffold]

yeah that's what I think too

the shield is really disgustingly good though but it's a bit too slow at times for me

even if it IS funny stunlocking an entire horde of ragers with just your heavies

[midnight totem]

That's what rocks are for!

[umbral scaffold]

but I was always a Kerillian player so if I'm not spamming dodge and shoves and having 800 dodge count, it just feels wrong to me

[strange sparrow]

That's not a lot compared to one I see

[umbral scaffold]

TRU
That's my favorite Ogryn gameplay feature for sure lol

[serene sage]

the more i play ExecStance the better it feels

[umbral scaffold]

yeah it could be way more tbh

[midnight totem]

Ogryn is definitely like boarding though

[serene sage]

i don't even miss VoC anymore

[umbral scaffold]

It would've been more if I didn't phase out on Winds of Magic

[serene sage]

target highlighting is such a neat QoL

[sharp ember]

bounty hunter pistol ult when

[umbral scaffold]

most of my play time was before WoM dropped

[midnight totem]

Veteran is kinda like Merc Kruber and Kerillian combined

[umbral scaffold]

so if WoM had been good I probably could've had double or triple that play time

Instead, WoM being so mid made me go back to CRPGS for a while

[serene sage]

haven't played V2 so i don't get those references

[umbral scaffold]

haha it's a good game
but it's very structured ( like a dance )

[midnight totem]

Winds of Magic was... a very poorly done expansion

[umbral scaffold]

very

only bought it on mega sale recently for the weapons

everything else it added was uh
Not my thing

altohugh Necro Sienna is making me play VT2 again

[sharp ember]

is that the one with the ungor archers

[strange sparrow]

Yep

[umbral scaffold]

yup

the main WoM gimmicks were Beastmen

and that weird tower mode thing

[umbral scaffold]

I did a lot of soloes in VT2 at least
that was always fun

[midnight totem]

Well yeah. You're an elf player

[umbral scaffold]

I'd do Darktide soloes but the enemy gunners scare me 😔

[strange sparrow]

To be frank I play a lot too

[midnight totem]

=p

[strange sparrow]

but not enough

[umbral scaffold]

Hey I do soloes with Salt too

I'm a Kerillian/Salt main

[midnight totem]

I kid. I played elf too. Foot Knight Kruber the most though

[umbral scaffold]

but i'm not good enough for warrior priest soloes atm
zealot soloes are easy enough though

[midnight totem]

Shade

[umbral scaffold]

I play FK Kruber on one map ( the troll map )

just so I can punt the troll off the bridge

heh

[midnight totem]

And regular archer elf

[umbral scaffold]

I'm a Handmaiden tryhard

[strange sparrow]

Salt + Elf is easier to Solo than Kruber imo

[umbral scaffold]

and BH/Warrior Priest Salt

Merc Kruber is good too

i rotate between Exec Sword and Sword and Mace

and GK Kruber is always good

[strange sparrow]

The only good class for Kruber is GK Kruber from my experience

Merc Kruber play like a support for me

[midnight totem]

But yeah

I think shroudfield zealot comes closest to handmaiden

[umbral scaffold]

he does okay at hordes cos he gets unlimited cleave more or less

[midnight totem]

Infiltrate vet is more like shade

[umbral scaffold]

Plus merc is the friendliest since you get an aspd passive

[golden nacelle]

Im thinking the lvl1 savage sweep to either bloodletter or rampage, and then the crit damage to flak. thoughts?

[midnight totem]

And crit passive

[umbral scaffold]

So high cleave + high attack speed + slaying = lul

Yeah

[midnight totem]

And shout

[midnight totem]

Sounds good

[umbral scaffold]

Gtg
Nice chatting to you folks

[midnight totem]

Cya around

[strange sparrow]

switch

[muted knot]

Ss to rampage

[golden nacelle]

Cool. yeah, its great for horde clear. especially mixed groups with some heavies. I do love the bloodletter though for monstrosities

[serene sage]

does anyone know what's the bug with rampage?

i know it does more damage than it should be what specifically?

[midnight totem]

I heard that instead of increasing damage by x, it's actually triple that

[light brook]

the more I play with smokes the more I feel they're the best nades

the other 2 are crutches to compensate for things your guns lack

[swift narwhal]

Care to explain ?

[serene sage]

so smoke is good because it... complements nothing in your build?

[light brook]

e.g. you're on the prismata crystal mission and enter that one awkward room with a left hand turn over two staircases, and see it's filled with gunners. Easy to overextend and get tripped up on a zealot, would normally have to slow down a little.

Instead of being on a timer to shoot all those gunners before your knife zealot goes ultradeep and dies you just pop smoke and problem goes away

[serene sage]

that sounds... oddly specific

lmao

[light brook]

There's a couple of places with wide sight lines and shitty pathing for melee. Lot of ranged spawns on any of the railyard events is another example.

[serene sage]

don't 2 frag grenades clear them all?

[swift narwhal]

Knife zealot going down isnt my Problem, and the Plasma gun Kills literally everything in sight

And in Cover as Well

[light brook]

why sprint ahead to frag nade shooters before they scatter

when you can just plasma and chainaxe them

[midnight totem]

I'm sorry what

[serene sage]

this argument is so scattered

[swift narwhal]

Real

[light brook]

just play the game you'll see

[serene sage]

why do plasma and chainaxe have anything to do with smoke

[light brook]

krak nades solve problems plasma/axe rev solve better

frag nade solves problems that don't exist if you know when and where to drop smoke

[crisp oak]

.... but that also means you can only use the ppasma gun and axe

[serene sage]

it's the opposite

[midnight totem]

Sprinting ahead to frag grenade is... more dangerous than sprinting in to chainaxe?

[light brook]

smokes make stuff come to you so you never have to sacrifice position

[crisp oak]

You have to spriny ahead to frag?

I just kobe and long bomb it

[serene sage]

what position? what, you just throw frag and the thing either stagger them or kill them outright

[light brook]

you ideally want to get patrols before they're activated

[serene sage]

how would smoke help

[serene sage]

yeah and frag grenade does exactly that

[crisp oak]

I mean you can frag nade before you activate them

[serene sage]

2 frags will kill everything before they notice

[sharp ember]

smonk gernade

[light brook]

hold on lemme break out mspaint

[serene sage]

everything ragers and below I guess

[crisp oak]

Tbh though with shooters... just use your gun

[midnight totem]

Anyway, smoke grenades do need a buff

They should highlight enemies inside it

[serene sage]

smoke grenade users will do everything to justify their picks

im just so confused haha

[serene bough]

i wouldn't say the others are crutches, it's just that smokes require the player to capitalize off the opportunity whereas the other two provide a direct effect from their respective explosions

i use smokes when I wanna focus on melee combat

[midnight totem]

And as a buff to grenade tinkerer

[light brook]

observe

[midnight totem]

They should regen friendly toughness inside

[light brook]

smoke placement makes the room come into axe range

so you don't need to sprint into melee range

[serene sage]

...

just... throw a frag nade or two man

those things have a large radius and stagger

and actually does damage

[light brook]

frag nades don't cover scattered spawns
try it in sim

on damnation

only downside I see is Voice of Command veterans who can't see through them but lol not my problem

[serene sage]

i play exclusive Auric T5M, and damnation has nothing to do with how scatter a spawn is

[light brook]

so how many frag nades does it take to clear a room?

[serene sage]

so how many smoke nades does it take to clear a room?

[light brook]

one to make the mixed elite threats walk into melee range and die then it's ez

[midnight totem]

-stealths away in krak grenade-

[serene sage]

#veteran-class message

idek man

[light brook]

limp noodle arms too weak to hold melee weapon

no wait that's psykers

[serene sage]

smoke nade can do what frag can't in like 1% of situations but go off ig

[light brook]

I feel like people just haven't played actual games with them

[serene sage]

admittedly I haven't put tons of hours in
but I did play like 3-4 games to know that they are ass

[light brook]

like, you've never looked at several shotgunners and went "I'd like to melee them but if I move up 5 meters I might go down?"

[serene sage]

I'm sorry but if something smells like shit, I am not gonna eat it to confirm that it is actually shit

I tried it enough to know that it's ass

simple

[light brook]

skill issue I guess
wait for a youtuber to tell you how to use it

[serene sage]

so true

[umbral scaffold]

Smoke nades don't knock over crushers

[serene sage]

I guess 80% wr in AT5M topping damage/kills almost everygame isn't enough

[crisp oak]

I feel like if I wanted to do that Id run zealot

[serene sage]

truly

[umbral scaffold]

And you don't need to conserve ammo killing shotgunners when you replenish ammo killing shotgunners

[light brook]

weirdly vet feels like a glass cannon zealot right now

[crisp oak]

Yup

[midnight totem]

I've looked at several shotgunners and I've meleed them without using any grenades

[crisp oak]

Just with the ability to just use gun

[serene bough]

when I focus on melee i like to use smokes

[crisp oak]

Instead of meleeing

[midnight totem]

Skill issue I guess

[serene sage]

clearly you don't know how to use smoke

[umbral scaffold]

Well
You're using the chain axe

[serene bough]

its admittedly more of a preference but you can easily drop it in front of some gunners and things will either run in or run away

[umbral scaffold]

A weapon that is better on zealot

[midnight totem]

Don't need smoke

[serene bough]

at which point you can melee chop them u

up

[umbral scaffold]

Of course you'll feel like a budget zealot

[serene sage]

yeah, exactly, it means that you don't know how to use them

[crisp oak]

Tbh the best veteran melee is the shovel

[light brook]

vet seems to hit better breakpoints than zealot (unless you're stacking wounds and running low hp)

[crisp oak]

Standard munitorum

[umbral scaffold]

Zealots can rev their chain axe and one hit crushers with dash

[light brook]

also plasma syncs with chain weapons really well

[serene sage]

don't you love creating a problem that doesn't need to exist and provide a solution to said problem? skill issue

[umbral scaffold]

Plasma syncs well with everything

[light brook]

tru

[umbral scaffold]

You can run sword plasma
Shovel plasma
Dagger plasma
It's just op

[midnight totem]

Absolutely

[umbral scaffold]

Also in terms of damage zealot has better consistent melee

[crisp oak]

Ok but hear me out... what if we just use bolter instead

[light brook]

heavy melee solves plasma breakpoints via constant +25% damage

[crisp oak]

Sounds more satisfying

[umbral scaffold]

But vets are sacrifice a lot of killing for better durability anyway

( on demand with voc )

[serene sage]

hot take but I think outside of VoC, Iron Will is a trap

[umbral scaffold]

( replenish ability with special kills )

[midnight totem]

Voc can provide good dps boosts

[umbral scaffold]

That too

[serene sage]

so is Tactical Awareness if you are running ExecStance

[umbral scaffold]

Plus
Unlike zealot

You can also actually use your gun

And not worry about your dumb pub Ogryn wasting 99% of his ammo on hordes

And stealing every pick up

[light brook]

agreed on both, though crutch might be more accurate

[umbral scaffold]

Probably