veteran-class

[frank ether]

while marksman focus or executioner stance are purely ranged bonuses

[strange sparrow]

Shout and Focus Target are more preferable than Exec Stances and Marksman Focus for HellBore

[quick steeple]

MRCraime posted his with VoC/Focus earlier in here

[frank ether]

here is another pro tip for helbore bayonet, if it hasn't been stealth nerfed, agile engagement can be procced without weapon swapping on helbores.

the bayonet kill will buff your charge shot and the charge shot will buff your bayonet damage.

[strange sparrow]

Mk1 does not need god roll while Mk2 require god roll to achieve some breakpoint

details, I do not know for the Mk2

[gleaming turtle]

Got a link?

[frank ether]

I think you generally want as close to 80 damage / 80 stopping as possible regardless of mark.

[quick steeple]

search this channel for his name "bayo" somewhere a few hrs ago

[strange sparrow]

Yes but Mk 1 can go 70 damage something and still hit breakpoint

[frank ether]

you need higher for certain one hits

[strange sparrow]

While Mk 2 pushing you for not having 80-80

[frank ether]

On Mk1 well its a heavier gun so it can go for one shots mk2 cant even dream of

like you can one shot flak ragers for example

[sour prairie]

i never seen a lasgun look like that

?

[strange sparrow]

Also Mk 2 required 2 ( +5% range damage ) nodes to one shot full charge against poxwalker to the body

[sharp ember]

weapon customization mod, lets you replace weapon asset parts with others

[sour prairie]

i see

[quick steeple]

its only client-side, but does let you swap sights/ adjust the ADS zoom

[gleaming turtle]

Solid?

[quick steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/james-mc-avoy-wanted-fans-self-sweating-gif-5079413

[frank ether]

I'd rather change unyielding to flak personally but pretty solid

[quick steeple]

^

[frank ether]

it does good boss damage with the right build

[gleaming turtle]

Sure, I can do that.

[frank ether]

so its not a mistake either

but I feel like your boss dps in general depends a lot more on hitting weakspots than having the right perks

with helbores you either hit weakspots and decimate boss or you don't

[sharp ember]

insanely good roll

and yeah it’s either Flak/Unyielding/Carapace paired with Maniac

[frank ether]

this is like roughly what I run for hb, paired with powersword or a combat axe with BM

[gleaming turtle]

I will keep that in mind.

[frank ether]

just as a general baseline for you to mold into your liking

[quick steeple]

found mccraime's variant up the thread for voc/mark #veteran-class message

havent really looked at it but he knows his stuff

[gleaming turtle]

Thanks

[frank ether]

bayo build is

basically melee build

bayo becomes a pretty good melee on mk1 if you build for it

but uhh.. I wouldn't be suprised if bayo gets nerfed over this

they nerfed ogryn gauntlet for less

[quick steeple]

i doubt it, at least not before uncanny/column etc lol

[frank ether]

for hb bayo they fixed limbsplitter which was dumb af

I fully agree with that one

[sharp ember]

i’m surprised they didn’t take Brutal Momentum with it

[frank ether]

fatshark saw my suffering and decided to have mercy

[quick steeple]

and that

hmmm you said bayo procs swap on kill for agiEng...

[frank ether]

mk3 bayo will actually just become useless if they take away BM

[quick steeple]

almost every melee rn is built around uncanny / brutal / shred lol

[frank ether]

yeah but with mk3 it goes from cleaving a few poxwalker to stopping on just two

[quick steeple]

yeh

[frank ether]

considering its attack angle is difficult to begin with

[sharp ember]

yep, gunshots buff your bayonet and bayonetting buffs your gunshots

the timer starts immediately because you’re already holding the weapon

and both can be buffed at the same time

[ivory rock]

average smiteker gameplay moment

[ruby hull]

Nothing quite jiggles my jelly as much as using bayonet vet and looking at the score board that the end of the game and seeing that I have more overkill damage than total damage but I still have like 700k total damage

I've never had another weapon in this game that deals more overkill than actual damage xP

[ivory rock]

Workin on plasteel farmin as we shpeak @torn root

[frank ether]

I don't think overkill is a good thing

[torn root]

do it before i drink myself into a stupor!

[torn root]

its not

[ivory rock]

Imma be deadass I think auric missions should give max 1k plasteel

[torn root]

but on the bayo it probably is

[ivory rock]

dont see the point in doin em if they dont actually give anythin extraaaaa

[frank ether]

but for bayo I guess you're overkilling poxwalkers and thats whatever

its the same for powersword

bunch of overkill dmg

[ruby hull]

Doesn't matter much when the damage is still through the roof regardless xP

[torn root]

nah i dont think ive even gotten 900 on auric

the more I do auric the less effiecient i think it is for getting plasteel

just that im more likely to clear one with good players

[torpid sundial]

is this salvageable

🤡

maybe if the second blessing is headhunter or something I can swap sprint efficiency and the first blessing for deadly accurate or something

[sharp ember]

at best you can save 3/4 of the rolls if your second blessing is good

[torpid sundial]

nooooooo

[torn root]

no wait

its generally never a good thing to pass purple

if the perks are already a miss and the blessing isnt what you want

[gusty bison]

Auric is not for farming tbh

Auric is for a fun challenge

[sharp ember]

yeh

[torpid sundial]

I was thinking I could still use crit chance tbh

[torn root]

after purple if the gun isnt good, can it

[torpid sundial]

welp

goodbye

[sharp ember]

that’s true but it won’t be as good as good ol’ flak maniac

[tacit sonnet]

Wait, that's such a great idea, I always just spam click until yellow and only then check what I got

[torpid sundial]

and this is already dead

[tacit sonnet]

I could've saved tens of thousands of plasteel

Shit

[torpid sundial]

okay wait maybe this

[torn root]

okay trick to rolling weapons

You kinda want 2/4 by the time you roll a purple

safer cheaper angle is just to roll to blue

[torpid sundial]

I try to get the base stat godrolls to max consecrate because I want to be optimistic

SAVED

now to farm more plasteel

[frank ether]

I don't want it to be for farming either

I don't want people showing up just to get carried for plasteel you know?

[torn root]

see farming to blue only takes about 320 i think?

[gusty bison]

Ye

[tacit sonnet]

nah, purple can still give something good and then lucky roll on yellow

[torpid sundial]

But I want the IV because it has the highest RoF

[torn root]

its legit safe and esy to abuse after 1 run

[torpid sundial]

and I like pew pew

[torn root]

you get like 2-3 rolls per run

[torn root]

shut up and grab my plasteel

[tacit sonnet]

Getting good base stats is more difficult

[torn root]

lmao

[quick steeple]

another trick i've found better odds w/ getting T4 rolls when trying to salvage blessings:
high (360+) trash roll to blue > roll both perks to t4 anything > roll to yellow.

the tables seem weighted on consecrate based on current total value to determine chances on next upgrade

[torpid sundial]

You can get a decent number of good base stats.... if you're camping the shop every hour

[torn root]

purple is worth more than 2 rolls on a blue

lmao

you are going to have a slower grind

[torpid sundial]

I also buy all the greens from the shop on weapons that I want to build

so I save plasteel

[torn root]

everytime you brick on purple

[torpid sundial]

by going only from green to blue

when I want to find a blessing

[torn root]

you get enough dockets to roll on buys for that too

i dont just post my rolls for no reason

its calculated lmao

farm your plasteel roll your high rolls

[tacit sonnet]

You get 3-5 weapon rolls per mission and sometimes it takes dozens of rolls to get good stats

[torn root]

getting a good perk/blessing combo means nothing with ass base states to begin with

[torpid sundial]

the armoury is a scam for me

all my good base stat weapons are from the hourly shop

[torn root]

you rather hold the plasteel for the highrolls you get than a possible low/mid roll that has nice perks and blessing

[tacit sonnet]

Hourly shop sucks because perks and blessings are always shit, I only check green/grey weapons and curios

[torn root]

ill buy my 4-5 greys per run while saving my plasteel

at least im not wasting it tp brick on a mid purple

[frank ether]

the entire gameplay loop for progression sucks tbh

[torn root]

rather brick on a high blue

[quick steeple]

hrly is only potentially good for blessing salvage hunts thats really it

[torpid sundial]

I need a video to tell me how to play with helbore 3 because holy shit I suck at it

[torn root]

yup

[torpid sundial]

Also for some reason I cant hold the helbore 3 charged shots?

Maybe due to ping

[quick steeple]

.

1. salvage the blessing
2. pick Mk1 or mk3 will be more consistent

[sharp ember]

all helbores shoot if you charge too long, unless you mean not at all

[gusty bison]

Learn ur breakpoints

[torpid sundial]

yeah not at all

[quick steeple]

sure your mouse switch isnt getting microflickers?

[gusty bison]

U dont need to full charge vs everythinf

[quick steeple]

^

[torpid sundial]

yeah honestly might be the case but it works fine in the training range

[tacit sonnet]

?
I know, I never bother with mid stats, I either sell them or upgrade to blue for blessings

[sharp ember]

yeah might be a hardware issue if you haven’t tried other marks to compare

[frank ether]

aim like a god and position like a god so you can maybe go even with a psyker who is staring at the floor the whole game with an AoE staff

[gusty bison]

Well the psyker is on the floor with a red hp bar so

Who is laughing now

[frank ether]

should have clicked mouse 1

[sharp ember]

ahh, probably server lag hating your inputs

[gusty bison]

No no thats why they are on the floor

[frank ether]

since thats literally the skill floor of trauma staff

lmao

[gusty bison]

Fkin peril explosions man

[frank ether]

took me a while to understand

I sometimes die to peril because psyker is just that monotonous

brain goes autopilot

[gusty bison]

Gunpsyker best psyker

[sour prairie]

I just felt like a true leader commanding a ogryn in a game just now

[gusty bison]

For the fun meter

[frank ether]

gunpsyker is pretty fun

and effective too

[sour prairie]

its fun in rouge trader too

[frank ether]

meanwhile general chat thinks trauma staff needs larger AoE

[quick steeple]

I'm ashamed at the number of "I'm a range pure psyker what melee slot can i fill with to use never" posts this week :/

[gusty bison]

Lel

[sour prairie]

do you guys/gals/theys/thems think veteran is fun now?

[gusty bison]

Has been for a while

[quick steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[torn root]

it was never not fun

[gusty bison]

What rock have u been living under

[torn root]

just didnt have a complete skill tree

[gusty bison]

Even P13 vet was fun

Then P14 we got the plosma

[quick steeple]

vets a vibe

[sour prairie]

doing this broke me and i never wanted to play him again

[gusty bison]

And P15 the new skill tree

[gusty bison]

Tbh on overwatch gets harder the more u try to stay in the back

I got mine playing melee vet on damn

[sour prairie]

i was playing shotgun vet

[umbral scaffold]

Did skin shop refreshed already?

[gusty bison]

Cos its easiest when the enemies are all in front of you

While being in the back means u might get randomly bonked in the ass by a rear spawn

Most people doing on overwatch i see make that mistake

[sour prairie]

i kinda stayed in the middle

id kiss the ogryne player protecting me too

good lad

[gusty bison]

Also its a lot easier if ur focusing on melee rather than shooting

[sharp ember]

we got a valhallan/snowy weather outfit, don’t have pics

[gusty bison]

Cos melee is safer

[umbral scaffold]

Thanks, dammit still no krieg

[sour prairie]

huh

[gusty bison]

My recommended loadout for On Overwatch atm is Shovel + Revolver

[gusty bison]

When u have ur gun out you have a lot less stagger options and no emergency blocks

Ur relying on purely dodges

And distance

But distance rarely works

[tacit sonnet]

That was an incredebiliy easy penance for me

[gusty bison]

So its just dodges

[tacit sonnet]

Malice missions are basically a resident sleeper once you get a decent build

[sour prairie]

my blood boils from hearing this

[tacit sonnet]

A simmilar penance for taking 0 damage on a mission was also easy

[umbral scaffold]

He must be on drugs

[sour prairie]

i wish

[tacit sonnet]

huh

[quick steeple]

[sour prairie]

😭

[frank ether]

honestly tree layout feels fine to me now

[torn root]

NEVER

[gusty bison]

But yea on overwatch is one of those that is misleading as to what u should do

[torn root]

i like i how i use to TRY playing DarkTide

[tacit sonnet]

Doing anything on malice is piss easy

[torn root]

now im a PSword Columnus user

[sour prairie]

i think i did that as i did on overwatch

[gusty bison]

Most people that try to do on overwatch try to hide in the back and only shoot

Which is...

[sour prairie]

but rn im working on getting shit done for #zealot-class

[gusty bison]

Actually the worst way to do it

[quick steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-scrubs-gif-5390756

[tacit sonnet]

If this penance actually required damnation, I would die

[gusty bison]

Cos you get randon backspawned

[frank ether]

if you kill all the chaff they cant even think about hitting you

[umbral scaffold]

What is the best way then

[tacit sonnet]

ye, you just play a mission and don't get skill issued

[gusty bison]

Melee vet

[sour prairie]

nah i think people would be more angry

[frank ether]

I agree

[sour prairie]

at fat shark for that

[umbral scaffold]

You got a build?

[gusty bison]

Follow alongside ur melee frontline

[frank ether]

melee vet unironically best way to it

especially shout vet

[quick steeple]

melee vet/ high mob and kiss your ogryns butt

[gusty bison]

Shovel or dclaw with revolver

[tacit sonnet]

The only reason I failed the penance for taking no damage on a mission was teammates and barrels

TWICE

[gusty bison]

Psword if you are good at it

[sour prairie]

pray you have ogryn and a psyker

[gusty bison]

Nah

[sour prairie]

revolver you say

[frank ether]

you have so high attack speed that you are always ready to block an incoming hit or kill the attacker in time

[gusty bison]

Psyker screws u ovef

[umbral scaffold]

Oh hell nah

[sour prairie]

:fefe

[gusty bison]

Ogryn is welcome but not needed.

[sour prairie]

actualy i can never change my name from this

[quick steeple]

true you just need a team aware and knows that youactually are doing.

[tacit sonnet]

You literally just play a game a little bit more carefully, no need for a super special strat

[torn root]

play with an ogryn

boom

[umbral scaffold]

Skills i mean

[tacit sonnet]

Teammates shooting barrels are your biggest enemy

[sour prairie]

honestly trying not to think about it to me helped

[gusty bison]

Voice of Command, Out for Blood, Iron Will, the rigjt tree down to weapon specialist

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-notes-noted-gif-26232003

[gusty bison]

And get the weapon swap = toughness for wep spec

If you can squeeze in confirmed kill, all the better

[sour prairie]

now im gonna show my veteran build and get screamed at im doing it wrong

[umbral scaffold]

Noone will scream at u

This is not fortnite discord

[torn root]

does taking damage to toughness not count?

[gusty bison]

Basically this build has

• Toughness regen for days
• Two sources of emergency toughness regen on a button press
• TDR to make it easier to retuen to max tou

[gusty bison]

No

Only hp

[torn root]

oh easy

[umbral scaffold]

Ooooooooh

And i thought not even a fart of a nurgle can touch you

[gusty bison]

Exactly

[tacit sonnet]

Did you really try to true no hit for this penance?

lmao

[frank ether]

@gusty bison have you tried out the new laspistol yet?

[gusty bison]

Yes

Iz ok

[frank ether]

I made a commissar meme build around it but I'm not sure if I have gone about it differently

[gusty bison]

Maybe?

Weapon spec or FT

[gusty bison]

Left side vet

[frank ether]

weapon spec seems like a good fit but tagging is also nice

[umbral scaffold]

Pretty basic lasgun build

[gusty bison]

Ur a brave man lel

[sour prairie]

dont use them

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-huh-meme-gif-27557281

[gusty bison]

Hum

Both gud

[gusty bison]

Ok why

[frank ether]

I kinda miss the attack speed on focus mark though

[sour prairie]

why i like it thats why

im not locking myself to meta

[gusty bison]

No no

[quick steeple]

lol

~woosh

[gusty bison]

You pick none of the talents that work well with shotgun

[delicate estuary]

I would lose the one point in the middle that increases radius and the one point above survivalist and get nade regen

[gusty bison]

And u picked up determined

[umbral scaffold]

U have a sniper build

[frank ether]

Idk 15 stacks marksman with exec on slug shotty

[sour prairie]

okay then what skills are good

[frank ether]

thats kinda demanding playstyle

I wouldnt do it

[sour prairie]

ive been doing it for awhile

murder me if you must

[umbral scaffold]

He wanna escape matrix

[sour prairie]

🫡

I knew i was gonna get screamed at lmao

[quick steeple]

not at all

[umbral scaffold]

Who tf screaming

[gusty bison]

Reload speed talents for one

[torpid sundial]

I think my main problem with helbore 3 is that it does everything worse than the revolver with the main issue being slow pull out time when wanting to deal with threats asap while also dealing with a horde

but I just like the idea of a sniper

also its iron sights suck so bad compared to the revolver

[gusty bison]

For two agile engagement is literally 1 talent point from ur build and is godly for shotguns

[frank ether]

Idk enough about combat axe breakpoints or blessing meta

[gusty bison]

For 3 a lot of those left side talents dont help shotgun much

[umbral scaffold]

I still can't decide which Lucius Patern is best, i know mk 3 has best dmg but that bayonet doesn't fit me well

[gusty bison]

Id rather go middle or right

[frank ether]

would you grab this for sour milk bux

also headtaker is rly good on chaxe but Idk about combat axes

[ivory rock]

@quick steeple @torn root @trim steppe @frank ether This what I got so imnma toss bm 3 on for rn since I aint got sunder yet

[gusty bison]

Yes if u dont have better

[frank ether]

I got an achlys with decimator/bm, hang on let me find it

[ivory rock]

Leave specialist n just power 4 n BM 3 for rn or leave cycler 3 n set specialists to flak or sumn

or maniacs or whatever it should be

[frank ether]

this is what I currently have

not the best roll either

but I want to get into combat axes

[gusty bison]

This is better

[umbral scaffold]

Damn that axe has good stats tho

[torpid sundial]

has anyone tried a ranged damage shotgun veteran or is that just better for melee vet

[umbral scaffold]

80dmg 80mobility you are like viking flash

[quick steeple]

swap spec > elite T4 + BM

[gusty bison]

I mean why not melee is the question

Its a shotgun

[frank ether]

thought so but wanted to make sure and also ask opinion on headtaker 4 being worth to grab

[gusty bison]

It has high swap speed

U can just freely bounce back and forth

[torpid sundial]

Just wondering what weapons go well with shotguns because I just end up defaulting to melee most of the time

[gusty bison]

Ur favourite melee weapon

[quick steeple]

^ go spec side, get your reload perk/ superspeed/crit/melee all in 1

[torpid sundial]

I did try catachan devil claw but I'm not good enough to make use of the parry

[quick steeple]

xIIIg if you like chainsaws is super straightforward

[torpid sundial]

that and the parry doesnt work well when facing against more than 1 enemy

which is sad

Yeaaaah

Chainsword felt the most comfortable

when dealing with both hoards and carapace enemies

[quick steeple]

claw i only like the IV moveset personally

[torpid sundial]

I got this one

But during hoards it still doesnt feel good to use

[frank ether]

rolled another one

why do I keep getting thrust lmao

[gusty bison]

Oof

[quick steeple]

if you can handle anim cancells and wanna delete everything in melee, grind out a PWsw VII

[gusty bison]

Swap LS to BM

[gusty bison]

Yes its a shotgun with a slug optioj

I know it well

[frank ether]

gotta live with infested on this one I guess

[torpid sundial]

I think I like melee build with revolver though

The 100% crit chance on demand is great

[sour prairie]

idk if the flame shotgun is better tho

[gusty bison]

The agri really wants reload speed is the thing

[sour prairie]

doesent last long enough

[gusty bison]

Like really wants it

[torpid sundial]

Whats the difference between the shotguns?

[frank ether]

in hindsight I dont even know why I wasted plasteel on this

[quick steeple]

spec has the reload perk

[sour prairie]

they have different special ammo

and stats

[torpid sundial]

I know one is flaming ammo

[gusty bison]

Lemme find mt agri build

[torpid sundial]

The other one just seems like a wider spreadshot?

[sour prairie]

the one im using is slug

[ivory rock]

How important is finesse on new knife cause imma be so depressed rn why couldnt the mobility be swapped

[quick steeple]

horizontal pattern ya, not great imo

[quick steeple]

very

[sour prairie]

Should i use the shovel havent changed any perks its just how i got it

[torpid sundial]

If the shotgun could pierce through the hoard I’d like it a lot better but it barely slows down maybe 4-5 ads even when spamming it into a corridor

[ivory rock]

gonna go kantrael myself

[sharp ember]

it’s fun but has overlap with the flame shotgun. Usually it’s for if you want better normal shell range and ammo count

[quick steeple]

you, myfriend are looking for a brauto then 😉

[torpid sundial]

So I kinda default to using the shotgun just to kill one ad to perma keep the melee buff up

[frank ether]

gacha gameplay

[torpid sundial]

Brauto?

[quick steeple]

braced auto

[sour prairie]

spending all your cash

[torpid sundial]

Ah

[frank ether]

on garbage

chsword doesnt have any dump stat besides mobility

and I keep getting high mobility

this is just

god awful game design

[torn root]

BM is metter imo just saw this

[sour prairie]

how is the drip on your guys vets

[torpid sundial]

I got a sweet one off the hourly shop a few days ago

[torn root]

if you dont hit the 2 shot on crusher put on 10% elite

[torpid sundial]

Ive been using stealth on melee bet but yeah maybe voc is just always better

[sour prairie]

shotgun build?

[gusty bison]

Shotgun

[quick steeple]

ya i said same, spec>elite +BR

[gusty bison]

Agri to be precise

[quick steeple]

i run voc on a spec build

works good

[torn root]

eilite for me was the only way i 2 shot everything, all the specialist have less health than Bullwakrs, Maulers ragers and armored ragers

[quick steeple]

exactly ya

welp back to the farming runs i goo

[frank ether]

bruh

[sour prairie]

done what melee should i go for

[gusty bison]

Heres another option

[gusty bison]

Whatever ur comfy with

[sour prairie]

ah yes

dident edit this at all

[gusty bison]

The idea for that build is it makes use of the natural swapping ur going to be constantly doing since its a shotgun

[torn root]

lose the flavor points and just slap on the PSword

[sour prairie]

nah

im not the biggest fan of it

[quick steeple]

at that point the crit/reload/move benefits + rend could be had focusing more right

[torn root]

not really gunna sit here and say im a fan tbh

i just think its broken

so ill let it humor me for a bit

[quick steeple]

voc > spec with 3 down mid

[gusty bison]

See the prior build

I had one which is weapon spec all in

And one which is more goodstuff no keystone

[sour prairie]

how long have you guys been playing

[gusty bison]

I run a seperate one personally but its too risky to recommend

[torn root]

but keystones are all good stuff

[gusty bison]

This is the agri tree i run

I do NOT recommend this

[torpid sundial]

its been 10 days since I bought the game send help

[gusty bison]

Unless u know what ur doing

[torn root]

ROOKIE NUMBERS

GET EM UP!

[gusty bison]

Lots of goodstuff

:P

[torpid sundial]

I'd say 100 hours and multiple fully built vet and ogryn kits is pretty good but I'll probably slow down my pace soon

[torn root]

i get ppl like being edgy and forgoing the keystone because herdeehur Vet never needed one for so long, but what are you actually getting over them

[gusty bison]

For helbore a decent amount actually

[torn root]

like?!

[gusty bison]

It lets u go right for the melee boosts

Left for precision and deadshot (and elite damage)

[umbral scaffold]

Vet can make good shit without the keystones

[shadow aurora]

This

[gusty bison]

Middle for iron will/demo team

[frank ether]

keystones are niche

very niche

[gusty bison]

Helbore also doesnt make use of the left or right keystones well

[torn root]

un needed, you could get the elite node and the weakspot node

[frank ether]

and marksman focus is just flatout bad

[shadow aurora]

Vet has a lot of good skills at the bottom of the tree.

[gusty bison]

And it doesnt like diving deep into the middle

[torn root]

just about the same in power

not sure why ppl dont know that yet

[gusty bison]

Do both

Thats the thing

[umbral scaffold]

I was taking left for elite and weakspot, middle fod tac awareness and right for brittleness and melee

[gusty bison]

Take elite, weakspot AND right side melee boosts

[torn root]

still you got a melee node you could have gotten on the way to a keystone

so again waht am i missing?

[umbral scaffold]

But also wanted to get grenade buffs and melee damage on the right

[torpid sundial]

send me a helbore 3 talent build I wanna make it work

[umbral scaffold]

Like, you legit don't need a keystone on vet

[shadow aurora]

From what i have heard it's goated if you have good aim because you can constantly keep moving by chaining headshots but i myself couldn't ever make it work

[torpid sundial]

Its good on autoguns

[frank ether]

Its only useful for like 2 guns

[sour prairie]

Crushers take 3 slug shots to the head now

amazing

[torpid sundial]

if you're constantly spraying into enemies

it'll definitely hit heads

[torn root]

you Could just say its rogue because 5% crit and Leave no one behind isnt giving you more than going towards a keystone

[umbral scaffold]

Now what if

[torn root]

nothing wrong with Rogues

[frank ether]

you don't need %75 extra finesse to magdump into gunners and poxwalkers

[torn root]

rage against the machine and all but i need a solid justification for it

[gusty bison]

Heres my Helbore 2 tree

[umbral scaffold]

Shotguns stacked onslaught per pellet

[sour prairie]

@gusty bison good Build thanks

[gusty bison]

For instance

[frank ether]

you could do that just fine without the keystone

[torn root]

you dont need duck and dive

might as well get the keystone

[gusty bison]

I do

[torn root]

you are actively just choosing not to just to be a rogue

[torpid sundial]

I wish there was a talent to increase swap speed

[gusty bison]

Its a deadshot build...

[frank ether]

deadshot adds more damage than the keystone

[shadow aurora]

Honestly all the classes shouldnt have to take a keystone you should be able to make a strong build without. Imo vet has one of the best structured trees in the game

Not balanced

[umbral scaffold]

My bottom is the same except deadshot goes to stamina delay

[shadow aurora]

But amazingly structured

[torn root]

really i can sit here and do the math right now lmao

[umbral scaffold]

It's a solid tree

[torn root]

if her really wanted duck and dive he didnt need the crit side tbh

its just rogue dude

[gusty bison]

I took the crit side for the melee output

The keystones dont help HB much

Is the thing

Weapon spec is garbage with it

[torpid sundial]

can you use that for all helbores

[gusty bison]

Uh hel 3 wants something else

Hang on

[umbral scaffold]

Helbore 3 wants love

[shadow aurora]

Helbore? Left keystone is good with it

[umbral scaffold]

Nobody gives that

[frank ether]

its not a math thing deadshot is active on demand

[torn root]

literally saw this and read ROGUE

[gusty bison]

Its a helbore

Not a revolver

U dingus

U almost never swap with a hel 2

[shadow aurora]

Language rat!

[umbral scaffold]

Last I remember wepspec doesn't work with helbore's bayonet

[gusty bison]

Actually i messed up. THIS is the hel 2 build

[quick steeple]

it doesnt

[umbral scaffold]

And with the swap speed, it feels kinda pointless to me

[torn root]

so why not Focus tree?

[gusty bison]

Too deep

[torn root]

you dont need both dodges then

you literally don't need the two dodge nodes

[sour prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-ryan-gosling-blade-runner-2049-blade-runner-darktide-when-you-find-me-gif-13647306158287826208

[quick steeple]

the melee half doesnt at least

[gusty bison]

They are amazing though?

[shadow aurora]

This mf took born leader

[gusty bison]

And i need one for the melee boosts

[torn root]

rage against the machine, got it

[frank ether]

crit chance on dodge is like

[umbral scaffold]

Duck and dive is the goat for deadshot

[frank ether]

why would you not want stacking crit chance on dodge

[gusty bison]

Reciprocity is nuts

[umbral scaffold]

That too

[gusty bison]

Desperado is amazing

[torn root]

Focus target can also fuel deadshot

[frank ether]

ppl go out of their way to get that flat %5 crit node

[torn root]

i am using right now

[gusty bison]

Its worse than DnD

Its usable

But im not spending 8 talents for worse DnD lol

[torn root]

guarenteed damage guarenteed tougness guarenteed stamina

[frank ether]

focus target is ok but nothing amazing either

[gusty bison]

Damage is redundant

[torn root]

doesnt require guys to shoot at you which there wont be always

[frank ether]

only time where focus target shines is when a boss shows up

[gusty bison]

Its a Helbore

[torn root]

if it were redundant you wouldnt aim to stack as much as you did

literally

[gusty bison]

U one shot anyway

[shadow aurora]

Focus target needs buffed tbh.

[gusty bison]

Im stacking melee lol

[torn root]

no it doesnt

[gusty bison]

Not ranged

[quick steeple]

or be stamina starved when spec would refill it after deadshot

[torn root]

you are stacking melee not ranged, going deadshot?

uuuh logice there

[gusty bison]

Yes?

[torn root]

you are aimd at both no?

[gusty bison]

Deadshot is great cos thats ALL helbore needs

[quick steeple]

now im confused

[frank ether]

thats %25 stamina over... 10 seconds

[shadow aurora]

Compared to stuff like the other two keystones? Yeah it kinda does. Or they need to be nerfed

[gusty bison]

It doesnt need anything else

[torn root]

same he legit just said he is stacking melee

where does deadshot fit in there

[gusty bison]

Stability when adsed

[torn root]

for melee?@

[gusty bison]

Helbore doesnt need ranged damage

It already does enough

[shadow aurora]

Doesnt helbore already have amazing stability

[torn root]

this too

[gusty bison]

I like jump shooting snipers at 80m :]

[torn root]

like im not being a dick

its just confusing

legit

[quick steeple]

ya i still dont get the deadshot

[torn root]

^

[gusty bison]

Its just a great talent for HB

[frank ether]

isnt this for hb2

[gusty bison]

Ye

[frank ether]

you shoot too fast to make use of surgical

there u go

[gusty bison]

Mhm

[frank ether]

deadshot justified if you can sustain it

[torn root]

ty for at least explaining

[gusty bison]

The stability is also nice for those absurd shots

[torn root]

so now

back to the no keystone thing

you claim it does enough damage

[gusty bison]

Im already hitting all my important BPs

[shadow aurora]

Its viable try it

[torn root]

why do you need elite and ammo then

[sharp ember]

all grenade nodes is the best keystone

[torn root]

with survivalist

[frank ether]

no keystone is the way

[gusty bison]

Elite gets u to 2 shot rager on bayonet

[torn root]

thats points you could literally move around with the off shoot to right side

[gusty bison]

Ammo is a tax node

[torn root]

to get a keystone

its so rogue

[gusty bison]

Weapon spec is USELESS on helbore

Jesus christ

[torn root]

5% isn't that important

[gusty bison]

You dont swap

[shadow aurora]

This

[torn root]

THEN IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE THAT KEYSTONE

[frank ether]

running weapon spec on hb would be actual trolling I think

[torn root]

WTF

[gusty bison]

Ok what other keystone do i get moving points to right side?

[torpid sundial]

do you not swap even during a horde? since you cant block or push

[gusty bison]

No

I just steb

Cos steb has staggah

[frank ether]

even if you do its painful

[gusty bison]

Only swap for like

[torn root]

WHY THE TOUGHNESS REDUCTION, WHY THE 5% CRIT, WHY THE LEAVE NO ONE BEHIND

AREN'T THOSE WASTED?!

[torpid sundial]

its just that hb3 stab is pretty slow

[frank ether]

swaps are pain on helbore why the hell would you go for the swap keystone on the longest swap time gun in the game

[stable socket]

if you wanted to move points, nades would probably be better than picking up a keystone

[quick steeple]

hb2 hes using

[gusty bison]

Uh. Ability CDR is good

[sour prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/hop-on-darktide-darktide-gif-27184427

[shadow aurora]

Leave no one behind is fine when running an overwatch infil build

[gusty bison]

And iron will isnt bad lol.

But that was the old one

[shadow aurora]

What does iron will do again

[gusty bison]

The second tree i posted is the one i now run

[torn root]

actually i found where my confusion came from

[gusty bison]

Since people pointed out agile buffs bayo

[torn root]

my bot ass mistook agile engagment for that shitty node

lmao

[gusty bison]

Lol

Ah ye

Agile is batshit insane

[shadow aurora]

Oh yeah iron will thats good

[torn root]

largely still cant agree withthe 10% melee tho

[frank ether]

I think if you dont have nade regen talents of some kind you already failed at making a vet build

[torn root]

imma be honest

[gusty bison]

U can drop 10% melee attack speed

[frank ether]

since all of your grenades are balanced around being spammable

[stable socket]

i mean you could get even more nade nodes

[torn root]

and ;like you said you dont swap

so why agile engagement now

see its still kinda confusing

[gusty bison]

U dont need to swap on HB

To get agile

[frank ether]

being able to occasionally drop 3 frags to nuke a horde faaaar outweights some extra BPs you might hit with marksman focus if you position/headshot well

[gusty bison]

The bayo and lasfire buff each other

So u can go. Steb steb steb steb shoot steb steb steb

And have +25% to ranged and melee perma up

[frank ether]

agile is cool

its better than the keystone on hb

[gusty bison]

Mostly cos it doesnt need u to actually swap

[frank ether]

you even get a %10 melee node on the way

what I also like is

you dont even need survivalist on hb

[gusty bison]

Oh ye

[torn root]

iight i am satisfyed with the info

[gusty bison]

But i take frags

So

Cheapest way down xD

[frank ether]

so if you wanted to go fireteam or heck even speed aura

its still gonna work

the only problem is smoke grenades

being the meme that they are

so people tend to go either frag path or krak

[torn root]

should be removed

[frank ether]

I agree

[jolly hemlock]

smoke is fucking troll

[frank ether]

no amount of tree reworks will fix the problems that come from bad choices

[shadow aurora]

Smoke nades are annoying at best

[quick steeple]

should be changed to a fire extinguisher

[torn root]

^

[frank ether]

and no amount of mental gymnastics ppl do will make smoke good

[jolly hemlock]

i always leave games with smoke vets

[torn root]

no just removed

you dont get a path down that way

wouldnt even care

lmao

[quick steeple]

oh theyre in the build? i tht you meant in general lmao

[torn root]

no

i just dont like seeing smokes on the tree

like actually

[shadow aurora]

Give vet a shock nade then were talking

[torn root]

just remove it

[frank ether]

replace it with like a warhammer version of a C4 or something Idk

[torn root]

give vet throwing axes

that would be nice

[quick steeple]

MAKE IT A C4 / LANDMINE

[shadow aurora]

Thatd be too close to knifes

[frank ledge]

assail

[torn root]

bitch! and?!

lmao

[frank ledge]

We also have 2 invis powers

[torn root]

not seriously calling you btw

[shadow aurora]

Shock nade you filthy peasant

[sour prairie]

im not a fan of smoke

[frank ledge]

smoke bad

[shadow aurora]

I want it NOW

[torn root]

my axe would have toque!

tworq!

[sour prairie]

I remember playing the new update and picked smoke path not having fun

[gusty bison]

@torpid sundial try this for hb3

[sour prairie]

stayed up all night playing darktide got me feeling

[torn root]

@gusty bison still tho, my bad

ROGUE!

[frank ether]

I like that

[torn root]

BUT NOT REALLY

[shadow aurora]

No rending

[quick steeple]

if we keeping it canon, swap smoke > vortex

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Vortex_Grenade

[frank ether]

dont need it, not gonna one shot crusher either way

[shadow aurora]

They would not trust regects with a warp nade

Sorry

[torn root]

this is only good on the autoguns

it gives each shot on columnus specifically like 15.7% more damage agains't carapace [now that i think about it its because of my perks]

how i dont know why

the math is weird af

[shadow aurora]

I pretty much take it off of principle if im going down that segment of the tree

[frank ether]

thats heccin cool

but may not happen over gameplay balance issues

how do you differentiate it from kraks for instance without making it better

[torn root]

IU got it

VET SHOULD GET LASER TRIP MINES

eeeh

EEEH?!

[shadow aurora]

I mean if were gonna get a warp nade might as well give us power armor at that point

[quick steeple]

low-mid dmg suck toward center on human size / stagger big bois once

[frank ether]

I mean I'd take them you know

[torpid sundial]

waitno rending makes crushers from 2 hits to 4 hits unless you crit on all shots

[frank ether]

anything but smokes

[torpid sundial]

is focus fire to max 8 stacks actually good

ive never taken it

[frank ether]

the description to me kinda implies they'd be ripped to shreds once pulled in, but I like your idea of just pulling enemies

[shadow aurora]

Its fine

[frank ether]

Also there is the question of like

[torn root]

man, just give smokes a CC effect

wtf was FATSHARK thinking

[frank ether]

how does our lowly reject get such high tech

is an issue I guess

[umbral scaffold]

make it more like a sucking grenade that stops people from moving around like the zealot stun nade

or something

plenty of ways to differentiate it anyway

[quick steeple]

highlight dies > everyone gets up to 12% dmg / 40% tough & regen spd for 10s

[shadow aurora]

Shock nades

[umbral scaffold]

we're under the inquisition, even if we're basically The Expendables

[torpid sundial]

at least make smoke block snipers too

lmao

[umbral scaffold]

they still want us to survive so

makes sense they give us gear that doesn't suck

[shadow aurora]

Ha

[umbral scaffold]

they're already giving us plasma sword and thunder hammers

[shadow aurora]

Ahahaha

[frank ether]

well the whole game lore and the entire crafting system is designed around

you working with literal garbage

[umbral scaffold]

Ye, if we die we're not going to finish the mission lul

[shadow aurora]

A portal to the warp would literally shred anything

[umbral scaffold]

the purpose is always a cost cutting push pull where they give us exactly what we need

[shadow aurora]

Except mostrosities

[quick steeple]

let it shred grunts with some epicenter balancing, keep dmg and aoe low; reward teamplay around the sucked ball or chokepointing

[umbral scaffold]

but not too much so if we randomly wi[e it's w/e

[shadow aurora]

Also its stated its a rare piece of tech.

[umbral scaffold]

Game balance already fucks with a lot of stuff so it doesn't matter too much

not to mentiion like any 40k game, "rare" is about as common as needed

[frank ether]

when you decide game balance doesnt matter

you end up with smoke grenades

what do they do? I don't know look cool

[umbral scaffold]

There's basically no reason a crackhead with a knife should be able to solo a warp infused demon

[shadow aurora]

If they aren't willing to give us power armor there is simply no way theyd trust us with a warp nade

[umbral scaffold]

or how a powersword just cleaves through 800 stacked enemies once it's powered on

[frank ether]

thats not game balance

thats lore stuff

[umbral scaffold]

it's funny game design

[quick steeple]

or why bolter isnt the only wep we're running. lore friendly =/= lore accurate

[umbral scaffold]

which is why there's a lot of leniency

[umbral scaffold]

it's fatshark
eeventually i wouldnt' be surprised if they sell power armor style cosmetics

and that sells like hot butter if it's cool

[shadow aurora]

Games workshop would not let that happen

[frank ether]

they'll probably do ones that are power armor-ish

[stable socket]

my ideal smoke grenade replacement is probably some kind of fire suppressant foam/goop that does two things: puts out fires in an area and slows enemies

[torn root]

not even this

[frank ether]

Idk they seem eager to milk 40k whales

[umbral scaffold]

Games Workshop has so much leniency on Rogue Trader ( a crpg ) that what I thought they would allow / won't allow is out of the question nowadays

[torn root]

actually bolter is both

[torpid sundial]

wao first time seeing an acuisition 380 base

[torn root]

we are regular flimsy humans

[shadow aurora]

If they give us power armor i will hive you twenty bucks

[umbral scaffold]

You can bang a dark eldar and be their longterm lover/wife/husband kek

[shadow aurora]

Until that happens im right

[umbral scaffold]

and they don't immediately skin you alive

[torn root]

not jacked fucking beefcake titans that can use and reload the weapon properly

[umbral scaffold]

if GW is fine with that

funny power armor cosmetics wouldn't be weird

[torn root]

also the suits for the guys that use them helps them aim and shit

[umbral scaffold]

especially when GW has a stated thing they DIDN'T allow ( can't bang the sororitas lol )

[shadow aurora]

If they're going to let us have power armor they might as well just send in the battle sisters at that point. People they can actually trust not to lose it

[umbral scaffold]

can't bang the space wolf either lul

[torn root]

we got hand-me-downBolters and Power Swords

[umbral scaffold]

They probably would eventually

given how vermintide was

[shadow aurora]

A bolter is literally the smallest of small arms to someone like a space marine its not that crazy we got one

Im more suprised we got a plasma gun

[umbral scaffold]

advantage of being inquisitor fodder

[torn root]

HAND

ME

DOWNS

[pallid notch]

Thx for this gameplay on my vet is a lot smoother now

[shadow aurora]

YEAH

[torn root]

bro probably dropped the bolter and though it wasn't good enough for the job

[strange sparrow]

We just need sister of battle armor

To justify bolter

[shadow aurora]

Theyre not going to hand down a grav cannon to a reject

[strange sparrow]

Remember they’re normal human

[shadow aurora]

Soejxidisks

[strange sparrow]

Sister of Battle armada tbh

[torn root]

A WAVE OF WAIFU

[shadow aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-funny-wtf-wth-jesse-gif-17336046

[torn root]

Armada - A fleet of Warships = Wave

Sister of Battle = Waifus

Armada of SoB = Wave of Waifus

ez maffs

[shadow aurora]

Dont call it that eegghhhfff

[umbral scaffold]

Not with that attitude!

[strange sparrow]

With cat ear fr

That’s how they’re gonna milk our MONEY

SOB WITH CAT EAR

[torn root]

would!

[gusty bison]

Its a HB

[shadow aurora]

You already said that

Or someone else did i fogor

[gusty bison]

Must be someone else

XD

I just saw the ping

[gusty bison]

Yes because it increases max stacks for Redirect Fiee

And redirect fire stacks fully refresh on tagged kill

[torpid sundial]

ooooooooooooooooooooh

[torn root]

correct that: its only good when you have direct fire

[gusty bison]

So if u have 8 redirect fire stacks, and kill a tagged enemy with 2 target focus stacks

[torpid sundial]

so if you tag 8 stacks on one and the rest have only tagged 1 stacks

[torn root]

Do not get it at the sole augment

[gusty bison]

Ye

[torpid sundial]

the buff will continue being 8

thats great

[gusty bison]

Correct

32% free damage is 32% free damage

[torpid sundial]

i thought it would go down to the lower stack after the 8 expires

alright

[strange sparrow]

Rending make your Hellbore inverse damage drop off range goes funny

[torpid sundial]

that makes it a lot better

[gusty bison]

Tbf the HB inverse starts at like

90%

[gusty bison]

Aye thats the main draw of that node

Only take it if u take redirect fire first

[torpid sundial]

that means every elite kill grants 40% toughness to everyone

[gusty bison]

No no

Thats Target Down

Not Redirect Fire

Target Down goes off stacks on the target

[torpid sundial]

ah

[gusty bison]

So its more like 10%

Redirect is the damage boost

[torpid sundial]

But if redirect works that way

why doesnt target down

[gusty bison]

Fatshark coding

[torpid sundial]

amazing

the way they worded it is the exact same too

[gusty bison]

To be fair

[torpid sundial]

so you'd assume they'd work the same way

[gusty bison]

Target down is also very very good

Cos at minimum ur putting 2 stacks ona target

[frank ether]

its still better off than marksman focus

[gusty bison]

And 10% tou + stam for everyone off every elite is a lot

[torpid sundial]

hmm

I kinda want suppression immunity though

[gusty bison]

On what

A HB?

HB doesnt need it

[torpid sundial]

yeah

[frank ether]

doesnt need it

[quick steeple]

better positioning

[torpid sundial]

fine

[gusty bison]

HB is very stable

[frank ether]

no helbore just

doesnt sway much

or get suppressed

you can stand in the open and get away with it

[gusty bison]

Ye

[frank ether]

just do occasional dodges

and you'll be fine

[gusty bison]

If u really want more stability.

Well... deadshot

[frank ether]

still think

deadshot is too intensive for mk3

[torpid sundial]

ugh the hb3 bayonet is so much slower than 2 and 1

I cant deal with hordes with it

[frank ether]

Its fine with BM

but not as good as 1-2

because 1-2 is kinda broken

[strange sparrow]

Dead shot give too much “damages” that you kinda don’t need tbh

Even with Mk2

[frank ether]

mk3 animation is just not as spammable and doesnt home in at weakspot like 1-2 does

crits are important on helbore

[strange sparrow]

Especially that Focus Target give all breakpoint you would need

[frank ether]

mk3 can just wait since it takes time to charge anyways

mk2 shoots too fast for surgical

especially if you running onslaught

[strange sparrow]

I just get surgical so every shot get 10% Crit to begin

[frank ether]

thats tiny

[torpid sundial]

okay is this one salvageable

[frank ether]

I'd want at least 3 stacks of it tbh per shot

might aswell run a HH with deadshot otherwise

[torn root]

huh

[frank ether]

sorry headhunter

[torn root]

realized i can kill crushers without the elite damage

good bye elite damage and ammo i guess

lmao

[frank ether]

which gun

I mean hb3 two shots them fine

[strange sparrow]

You only need onslaught for Columnus tbh

But Hellbore mk2 need every damage nodes

I even take the kill zone node

[umbral scaffold]

not 80 everything
UNUSEABLE!

jk

[strange sparrow]

No respite is okay but depend on whether you want to gamble for onslaught

I wouldn’t spend it because it’s a 800+ plasteel gamble

[torpid sundial]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/930952645097701417.webp?size=48&name=Copium&quality=lossless

[strange sparrow]

These days I just gamble up to blue

If I don’t get IV blessing that I want

I just buy a new one and do it again

Then again, there is increased chances on tier 3/4 blessings on Gold

But the cost is too steep for me

(99% of gambler quit before they win)

[torpid sundial]

I like how the people here says this being all conservative

and people in the ogryn chat is like

just do it

just do it

upgrade it to transendent

[umbral scaffold]

tbf the reality is
if u wanna go for it

if u wanna hard save and copium on Darktide reds though that's maybe better longterm? xd

[torpid sundial]

I think its worth the gamble if the base stats are just that good

[strange sparrow]

(99% of gambler quit before thy win)

[umbral scaffold]

but if ur gonna take 300 years to do anything

[strange sparrow]

[umbral scaffold]

might as well spend it now and enjoy your time than not do it and wait in the fatshark waiting room

Took them like 2 years to recover from Winds of Magic

so that was 2 years of straight up "Dead game dead game Fatshark VT2 dead game" lol

[torn root]

shit with all this time, realizing if i just used PSword i could free up talents

yikes

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-toby-the-cat-nod-yes-yes-yes-hooman-gif-17105827

[strange sparrow]

You could probably play as no talent with Psword tbh on Auric Mael

[quick steeple]

on the col build?

[torpid sundial]

anyone has a nice infantry lasgun build

[strange sparrow]

That being said, I’m gonna do that

[torn root]

Ammo or supression immunity?

[torn root]

don't tempt me

[quick steeple]

in exchange for?

[torn root]

yis

[umbral scaffold]

Found the perfect gif

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/497876508497674250/1191709793061179493/UwnGB.gif?ex=65a66d3b&is=6593f83b&hm=a7e48e4e76aaab9fdc020528da8daaae80396c65953cae870659aada9df11c90&

[torpid sundial]

yes

[torn root]

nothing

just have 1 point left

[umbral scaffold]

I like suppression immunity

because fuck having arthritis when I need to get rid of gunners

[torn root]

567 ammo vs 706

[umbral scaffold]

but ammo is usually safer if you're not confident in teammates

[torn root]

das a lot of ammo XD

[umbral scaffold]

ye

[torn root]

shit man, i really dont need it

[strange sparrow]

Ammo replenishment is based on total ammo

[torn root]

that's the sad part

[umbral scaffold]

in general it depends on how much your teammates eat ammo

[quick steeple]

def dont need it if you got agi eng already on

[torn root]

supression immunity it is!

[umbral scaffold]

if they're really good / have low ammo consumption weapons you basically don't need more ammo
You can just eat it up 24/7

[quick steeple]

put it somewhere else

[torn root]

well on 700+ ammo

i neevr even dip to 300

[umbral scaffold]

but suppression immuinity is just safer imo between the two
but I'm biased cos I hate the shaking aim

[torn root]

so i felt liek the ammo was always tax for elite damage

but as long as i use this bitch ass sword i can forgoe both

[umbral scaffold]

I personally feel like the ammo is better if I'm using braced autoguns myself

[quick steeple]

add back rending instead

[torn root]

tried it

the damage it gives, changes my kill times by not too much