veteran-class

[crisp rapids]

wrong

[tall torrent]

The only crit chains that should exist are for burst guns and semi autos

[strange sparrow]

rather than Columnus overperforming

[crisp rapids]

braced autos are grades

great*

except the graia

the graia braced fucking sucks

[trim steppe]

braced agri is amazing

[crisp rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1190879456538136666/image.png?ex=65a367eb&is=6590f2eb&hm=37ee123d8ddc56e0a0ecbe8a6fe22d133766a49d4ee901510a774c65ed647b39& IT FUKCING SUCKS

[tall torrent]

Other 2 IAGs are doing fine, they could use a little buff in headshot dps but that’s just me
Columnus is overtuned no matter how u look at it, should get brought down at a baseline

[crisp rapids]

i HATE BRACED GRAIA

[torn root]

also asking for a direct basis to basis interaction on the talent is begging for bugs

[tall torrent]

Braced autoguns could use some love

[torn root]

its harder to code for just one gun

[crisp rapids]

braced autos are fine rn

imo

i have a very good graia and it STILL does no stagger

[wanton dawn]

Rn plasma is overtuned, one of the reason being that you can easily skip a lot of talent that other guns needs to function (reload speed, rending, deadshot and other crit support...) and just focus on dmg

[tall torrent]

They’re usable

[crisp rapids]

they are great

the agrip braced and amongus braced are fine

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa braced, yea that one is good

[crisp rapids]

id say even they may be a tad too good :XD:

[tall torrent]

The other two, could be brought up a bit

[serene sage]

high damage
high cleave
no range penalty
insane mag
wall pen

Plasma heat rate should be doubled

[crisp rapids]

columnus braced imo is the best balanced

[serene sage]

so people need to vent more

[crisp rapids]

cleaves trough horde, does OK dmg,

[strange sparrow]

Removing the ability to ADS, in return of (?) is the question I always have for Braced AutoGun

[serene sage]

and it will be balanced

[crisp rapids]

agrpi does wayy too much dmg imo

[torn root]

Should I continue to roll this or settle on my luck?

[strange sparrow]

ADS give perfect accuracy which you could just click heads

[trim steppe]

just make it explode at max overheat on left clicks

[crisp rapids]

horizontal only recoil

[torn root]

i deleted like 30+ sub 360s

[wanton dawn]

I doubt it be enough to increase heat regen also boring nerf

[junior needle]

They seemed to perform decently well for a gun line that's supposedly weak to flak. The infantry lasguns get like 500~ dps to flak at best.

[crisp rapids]

good for lining heads (in theory)

[tall torrent]

It’s usable but not amazing because picking a braced gun in the first place already limits veteran’s ability to pick out targets at range

[serene sage]

show perfect PS6

should I keep rolling guys

[torn root]

perfect where?

i still could use 3 finesse

[lofty lintel]

No.

[wanton dawn]

Move power from uncharged to charged shot would be a good starter to balance plasma

[strange sparrow]

Infantry Lasgun just yea.

[crisp rapids]

short bursts with agrip braced or amongus braced

are pretty precise

never had a issue with it

[serene sage]

my apologies, let me play the tiniest violion for you

[torn root]

nah my bad but i think we had a covo erlier

[tall torrent]

That’s the thing though, you don’t get to pick off targets effectively at range

[crisp rapids]

the only one thatneeds some love is the graia

[torn root]

if i had more finesse i coul use different talents etc

could*

[crisp rapids]

the game doesnt have ultra long range encounters most o fthe time

[lofty lintel]

No thats fine

[crisp rapids]

a gun not doing EVERYTHING isnt bad!

[strange sparrow]

The games come to you, instead of you going to the game

[torn root]

and a diff perk too i think

[crisp rapids]

its part of the deal

[trim steppe]

Sell it and look for PC4 again

[strange sparrow]

which is probably my problem with Hellbore Mk2

[crisp rapids]

its balance imo

[strange sparrow]

it's a slower playstyle

[crisp rapids]

and the agrip dmg, with splitter + frenzy can onetap a sniper with exec stance up

cause YES even far away the dmg for some reason is still applying

i dont know why

[tall torrent]

I’m ok with it not doing long range well
I personally think if I’m gonna pick a weapon that sacrifices that long range accuracy, it deserves to be significantly more effective up close than alternative options

[crisp rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1190819553853329478/image.png?ex=65a33021&is=6590bb21&hm=da856bd6716b7ec803399893d716a133a1383d089b79198989b2ac2a580b80c9&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1190818918621778001/image.png?ex=65a32f8a&is=6590ba8a&hm=be5c911d8db75d64741ba9e63a0a4f59e8ceaebd5f7ba5ce1657ea8e869b46ec&

not staked , at distance vs stacked at distance

[wanton dawn]

Balance is ogryns player screaming at vet to handle gunners while vet is dying to unchecked poxbuster ambush on the back

Psyker is eating glue. Zealot is wounded

[torn root]

its supposed to

[junior needle]

Graia IAG performs similarly to agri as well.

[torn root]

deathspitter isnt close range damage

thats fire frenzy

[crisp rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1190819756681478175/image.png?ex=65a33052&is=6590bb52&hm=be85bee2d4b53a48a3ebe0a92e64a3b5a864ffecb68d31a61759f515f3c9a6fa&

this is dmg close range

[junior needle]

I tested it, ff applies at all range

[crisp rapids]

with stacks up

[torn root]

deathspitter is just damage

[torn root]

that needs to be fixxed

[junior needle]

but stack generation is close range

[crisp rapids]

the duffererence is not there

close range kills just give dmg

yeah

its insane

once u stack on the horde u cna just shoot anything

and it will die

evne crushers, once stacked u can bring one down with 1 magazine

not ideal

[spring rose]

Your average game of quick play

[crisp rapids]

but ´possible

[torn root]

1 mag is crazy

ngl

[crisp rapids]

its not what some of the other guns pull off

but aight

imo AIG should not be able to deal wth carapace almost at all.

[strange sparrow]

Not great imo with the IAG, it become a middle range gun that can't play aggressively
Now that Shredder Auto Pistol is gone, I don't think much gun can be play super aggressively/Mobile

[tall torrent]

I know agripinaa 8 has good dps
I mean “more effective up close” in more ways than just dps
Why not give braced autoguns more dodges

[crisp rapids]

i dont feel the need

i'll be honest

i feel like i am surfing on the map

with my agrip 8

[torn root]

not sure why the game didnt do this but metal bullets shoudl be bad against plated armour

[wanton dawn]

Why agri brauto has like, 2 dodges

[torn root]

not sure why lasers dont just melt through

[crisp rapids]

i run loads of toughness dmg resist

[torn root]

laser weapons should be a bit better at carapace compared to what they are now

[crisp rapids]

i can tank for a bit

:XD:

[crisp rapids]

🤝

columnus imo is veyr much more balanced than agrip.

BRAUTOs btw

am talking

rn agrip brauto outdoes all of them no questions asked

[wanton dawn]

You know what lasgun needs ? A hipfire that doesnt blow

[crisp rapids]

more dmg, AND the shots pierce shotgunners (which is a usually threat)

[torn root]

brauto is Columnus' little brother looking up at him

[crisp rapids]

unlike the amongus , with very lower dps and only cleaves trough 1 trash enemy

[torn root]

sorry

[crisp rapids]

yeah i have very good brautos on all 3

the dps diff is insane

and graia cant evne keep enemies away from shooting at me

while having virtually infinite ammo :XD: tho

and having the "fuller auto" mode

for some reaosn

[strange sparrow]

Im gonna be ironic too, ReconLasGun does better than IAG against Flak DPS but it just suck against Maniac damage which is why it's bad now

[crisp rapids]

it just doesnt do dmf

or staggers

[strange sparrow]

The Dps against flak is +10%~ while Maniac is -50%~

[crisp rapids]

i dont evne rnu maniac on my agrpi braced , i rather have flak unnarmored

[tall torrent]

Cuz Columnus 2 and Graia 4 don’t have stopping power modifiers lol

[torn root]

i think it should be like that tho, maybe not at -50%

lasers should do better against armour period imo

[crisp rapids]

stopping power is stagger or dmg?

[torn root]

bullets into flesh

[wanton dawn]

Dmg

[crisp rapids]

cause collumnus and graia has collateral

[tall torrent]

Both

[crisp rapids]

which is just stagger

[torn root]

realistically i rather flak be neutral between both almost

[crisp rapids]

my 80% collateral graia does no stagger whatsoever

[tall torrent]

Collateral is only stagger

Stopping power changes damage vs armor, and stagger

[crisp rapids]

flak unnarmored on agrip braced is goated

imo agrip guns do very good maniac dmg already

so unnarmored flak lets me deal with all elties basically free

[tall torrent]

Why unarmored

[inner imp]

doesn't unarmored already die fast

🤔

[tall torrent]

The only two unarmored elites are Dreg gunners & shotgunners

[torn root]

IM ABOUT TO BRICK!

[tall torrent]

But they wear flak armor for torso

[torn root]

BRICK!

[inner imp]

do it

[crisp rapids]

YES

[inner imp]

we watching

[crisp rapids]

they die faster :XD:

[inner imp]

with great curiousity

[tall torrent]

Yea and they wear flak armor for torso

And you’re not getting nearly as consistent headshots with braced guns anyway

[strange sparrow]

Against Cara, it's not existent

[torn root]

NO!

[inner imp]

hostshot las where

[junior needle]

Not better than the ciag, but they do very slightly better against flak than agri or graia. Except for the two, which has slightly worse dps. The cost of this is MASSIVELY worse dps to maniacs and generally notably worse dps to unyielding.

It's a mix of poor/mediocre dps across many armor types and also poor ammo efficiency.

[strange sparrow]

Recon LasGun

[torn root]

WAIT!

[inner imp]

winnable

keep going

[torn root]

i cant upgrade anymore

[crisp rapids]

which is why i htink its more than fine running unnarmored

[torn root]

was rolling too many things

[crisp rapids]

once splitter and FF are up

[inner imp]

i dont want a dollar store hotshot lasgun

[crisp rapids]

it doesnt really matetr what i have

[inner imp]

i want an actual hot shot lasgun

😂

[crisp rapids]

since that shit just blows everything the fuck up

[inner imp]

we already have a dollar store bolter

with shitty iron sights, wieldability, and mag size

[torn root]

which is sad

[tall torrent]

I mean
You could be running 10% elite or 25% maniac instead and kill things in general quicker
Instead of 25% unarmored which only applies to regular Dreg shooters, groaners, Dreg gunner (head) and Dreg shotgunner (head)

[torn root]

like 10% more damage for laser is agree with as a baseline, Regualr bullets should do more to infested and unarmored

[tall torrent]

Unless unarmored is locked on your gun

[torn root]

regular should suffer like -10% for flak

[strange sparrow]

Still I won't consider the other 2 IAG as great autogun, just not magdump gun

[crisp rapids]

it is locked. (elites would acguably be better)

[torn root]

the game would be better if it had damage type systems thats were manageable baseline

[crisp rapids]

but the gun itself is a mower, it needs to clear hordes and shoot the things behind it too

[tall torrent]

Oh lol should have told me that sooner

[crisp rapids]

i am not stopping to to aim at all

i see a group of shooters behind the horde

[inner imp]

hmm elites+flak and elites talent

[candid tundra]

hi @tall torrent

[inner imp]

that sounds do-able

[crisp rapids]

i press E -:> and start fucking destroying shit

[torn root]

static ones

[tall torrent]

Hi

[candid tundra]

hope you're doing well

[crisp rapids]

the thing is i can kill bruisers (horde enemy) faster this way, and the basic shooters

elites die anyway cause of splitter and fire frenzy

[tall torrent]

prob won’t play much next week

[junior needle]

For what it's worth, they have the base damage to be perfectly good once you overcome flak weakness with rending. Recons on the other hand, just have too low base stats even if you fix their shit modifiers.

[crisp rapids]

i need to wipe all shooters pretyt much instant (and i am positive there's abreakpoint somewhere) for starting to stack FF and Splitter 1 bullet less.

:XD: not important as much

but i doubt elite/maniac would do much better

since the dmg comes frmo FF and splitter

its 5am here cant play rn

i need to sleep

what do vets say to eachother

[strange sparrow]

Yeah, once talent point of Vets such as Onslaught and Rending Strikes kick in

[crisp rapids]

cadians live for good night's sleep, sweet dreams, and frens

[strange sparrow]

It become an ok weapon

[torn root]

Cadia DOES NOT SLEEP!

[crisp rapids]

sorry

[crude ermine]

They do now

[crisp rapids]

i said first

cadians live for good night's sleep, sweet dreams, and frens

[strange sparrow]

But that also does mean you need to "Fix" it

[junior needle]

I made these for you. Base comparison with no damage boosts for either excepting rending strikes and onslaught.

[crisp rapids]

thats it

[crude ermine]

Cause they're dead

[torn root]

rude

[crude ermine]

Couldn't resist

[torn root]

rude AF XD

[crude ermine]

Just got back from playing loner psyker

[crisp rapids]

not bad

[torn root]

oy

bring it down?

[crisp rapids]

staking FF and spliter i do on basic / lesser enemies then it doesn matter what am shooting, at 500dmg per bullet

the gun operats in a consistent 4000dps state at 500 dmg a bullet

[junior needle]

It's not an actual talent tree, I purposefully avoided any damage boosts apart from both rending talents.

[crisp rapids]

its nice

[crisp rapids]

but not bad huh, agrip 💪

slightly less dps

try with both them kinda staked.

:XD:

i nede sleep legi its 5am

i used up all my cadian happy fren energy

i need to recover for my happy lovelly day with the heart shaped ❤️ fissure in reality on the sky

[junior needle]

243 less baseline than ciag, although I don't have a built agri brauto currently to check with blessings stacked.

Still pretty good given the ciag status as a finesse weapon and the test being all headshots

[crisp rapids]

crushers arent the strongsuit of agrip mk8 maybe u right on elite beeing better. but extra unnarmored feels soo good to start staking FF and DS

maze out fr this time

[junior needle]

Those are the best blessings for brautos. I do strongly advise taking the rending talents. I go keystoneless, personally.

[crisp rapids]

Ican try fitting onslaught

Xd i am now on phone on bed

[junior needle]

Rending counters damage falloff from range, don't forget

[crisp rapids]

The fallof of the baruto is very lower

Compared to the amongus autogun

[junior needle]

Correct, but still worth taking.

[primal mesa]

where did you hear this?

[fresh grail]

ahh rending, nobody knows what the hell it does even after a year

[torn root]

we do

[strange sparrow]

Reduce armor effectiveness no?

[torn root]

its not a lot

[strange sparrow]

https://youtu.be/fIxOjj28cuE?si=9lKd8gw5efosfEZC

[primal mesa]

rending is incredibly simple. people just say random things like it effects dmg fall off

[strange sparrow]

Also telopots does a in-depth math anyways

[fresh grail]

does more than you think if you believe that, especially stacking it up with britlleness in some builds

[strange sparrow]

Brittleness is the same as rending now, just brittleness is a debuff

Rending work only for you

[tall torrent]

Rending works for you and immediately works at max effect for every target you hit

Brittleness is a debuff that needs to be stacked into enemies which could take time

[fresh grail]

but also works for your teammates

[strange sparrow]

But Rending doesn’t linger isn’t?

For example, +80% rending when Crit

[fresh grail]

different use cases for both, i like stacking them up for some builds

[strange sparrow]

Only the Crit instances got to bypass armor, shots afterward wasn’t affected

[grizzled bloom]

grunt

[vivid bolt]

If it states on crit, then yes

[junior needle]

I heard it on here and have been propagating the idea ever since

I do not actually know for sure if it's true now that you mention it

[primal mesa]

im uploading a video now that is 100% not true lol

[torn root]

NUT BOX

[junior needle]

Now I need to get back on and test it too

[primal mesa]

The only way I could see someone thinking that is with patch 13 rending now adds a little damage if you're over the pen cap maybe some one was right at the threshold where damage fall off would start and they gained a few points of damage because of the change instead of losing it like expected and they just said that that would be my best guess

[half parrot]

which shovel should I go for?

[low yacht]

Boltgun Buff now

[frank ether]

If you take %10 rending, you have %10 rending

its a constant effect

Its brittle that needs to be applied to a target

[primal mesa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieuwIoLK2Ec if you can tolerate low res non 4k videos

[serene sage]

if you ever wonder how fast bolter vs plasma draw side by side

[low oar]

Plasma is much faster

[serene sage]

yeah no shit

2.2 for Bolter
1.6 for Plasma

[low yacht]

Boltgun isn't supposed to be fast.

[low oar]

Tbh, bolter could probably just move to plasma draw speeds

[serene sage]

neither should the plasma then

[low yacht]

If anything buffing the damage would make up for the slow speed.

[frank ether]

no

drop plasma to bolter levels

[serene sage]

no

[low yacht]

As it would be worth using despite it's slow.

[serene sage]

bolter damage is fine

we don't need more damage in the game

[frank ether]

why does this discord go about bolter needing buffs on a daily basis

[serene sage]

everything dies in one or two shots already

[frank ether]

my brother in kark you have %5 accuracy

you can't kill the wallls

[low oar]

Bolter definitely needs to make up for its ammo economy problems

[low yacht]

It needs more speed at least that's my opinion. The aim is a skill thing

[fresh grail]

bolter needs more boolits

maybe i need more bullet

[serene sage]

it needs more bullets per mag, not the reserve

[fresh grail]

both

[serene sage]

i rarely run out of bullets with the gun, if ever

[frank ether]

^

[serene sage]

if you aim your shots, you can go neutral on it with ammo talent

[fresh grail]

yush, but if i'm going bolting i want to unload into an auric maelstrom horde

[primal mesa]

someone mentions the bolter needing any change ever lul

[low yacht]

The reload speed can be fixed but the aim speed cannot.

[serene sage]

i also shoot horde sometimes bro

[frank ether]

Game doesn't need another plasmagun

stop with the buff everything trend

its dumb

plasma is dumb

[low yacht]

It's a boltgun

[serene sage]

then the plasma should be nerfed to bolter level then

it's simply double standard

[primal mesa]

bringing the plasma gun down would be way easier than bringing everything up to its level

[junior needle]

DEBOONKED

[low yacht]

They're different weapons of course their damage isn't even.

They're both powerful weapons no.

[serene sage]

yeah plasma draws faster and do more damage
they are different
one simply overshadhows the other

[low yacht]

They're meant to serve different niches one is charged one is auto.

[primal mesa]

hmmmmm now im a tad confused

i kinda dont think this is damage fall off though

[serene sage]

well they failed

[low yacht]

Not really.

[primal mesa]

i think since this is on a maniac its just rending being rending

[frank ether]

they could remove full auto from bolter and half of you would improve at using it

[serene sage]

seriously, you and me, $5 bet, let's see who kill more shit, you can use the bolter, I will use the plasma

[junior needle]

I assume it was the testing method. You were a bit too close to have much falloff in that example and your gun probably doesn't have deep negative damage against that target at that distance.

[low yacht]

It's a boltgun It's not gonna be accurate

[primal mesa]

yeah which is why i dont think its the fall off

if it effected the fall off it should improve it at all ranges no?

[fresh grail]

the emperor demands i unload it in full auto into the unarmored horde

[low yacht]

It's overpowered but you got to understand we aren't space marines in armor with basically aim bot.

[serene sage]

so far all you have said is that the bolter needs to be bad because it's the bolter
the plasma can be good because it... fills a different niche?

what

nerf the plasma

easily solution

[low yacht]

Actually it makes total sense.

[frank ether]

120 seconds later:

''I need ammo, need ammo, could you stop taking all the ammo''

[junior needle]

It would, but if you're too close and you're at or about 100, your damage boost will be much lower.

[low yacht]

Why the boltgun isn't accurate even more.

[serene sage]

no one is advocating for that

[low yacht]

Skill Issue

[serene sage]

you can't make up an argument then argue with it

[low yacht]

I aim fine with it.

[torn root]

lmao

[frank ether]

lmao

[primal mesa]

hmmmmm i honestly cant tell if thats just rending being rending on the maniac or if it is actually touching fall off at all

[fresh grail]

yes! I will be the ammo vacuum for once instead of my recon lasgun psyker

[strange sparrow]

Tbh, shooting at that range just to take 10% rending is lmao

[fresh grail]

its called a strawman, of course you can

[primal mesa]

i feel like if its this miniscule though its probably not important enough to even care about

[strange sparrow]

But seem like rending does counter drop off

[primal mesa]

i like the word countering here

[low yacht]

The automatic makes up for the damage draw off but the boltgun has range you just have to single fire at range.

[primal mesa]

since it could very well be the new patch 13 rending effect and have nothing to do with fall off

since its dmg numbers as small as 1 and 2

[low yacht]

If you spam shots you just gonna miss.

[serene sage]

sure, then would you agree that we should nerf the plasma?

or do you think they are equally good

[strange sparrow]

Nerf plasma because it turn my brain off

[wanton dawn]

Thinking about it yes. Because distance decrease the armor multiplier which increase rending value

[strange sparrow]

[fresh grail]

From the patch notes on why it does more damage to ragers:

"On stuff that already does full damage, it will add 1% damage instead. It always adds 1% more for every 4% Rend you have. "

[frank ether]

Idk why plasma doesnt get bolter/helbore draw time treatment at least

[junior needle]

This also happened, so uh

[primal mesa]

that is 100% not effecting fall off then haha

[serene sage]

in theory the heat mechanic can be the balance

[fresh grail]

nothing to do with falloff

[torn root]

and most ppl on the internet use this method

[serene sage]

except no one gives a shit about heat

[primal mesa]

thats just new rending effect from 13

[low yacht]

Nerf nahcies

[serene sage]

they all left click

[low oar]

Because it was dogshit at release and was probably its one saving grace at the time

[primal mesa]

what a deboooonk roller coaster

[strange sparrow]

Can’t nerf 0brain cells

[low yacht]

I want my guns to be satisfying not annoying

[junior needle]

I dunno wtf is going on

[fresh grail]

Exactly why debating random nicknames on the internet like me and other here is useless
I come here to share and gather (possibly) useful information, not to prove myself right.

[low oar]

Let's make plasma take hp again 🙂

[primal mesa]

saying it counters it is correct in the most technical semantic way possible

[wanton dawn]

So yes, if weapon has 100% vs flak at close and 90% far, then 10% rending give you 102.5% close and 100% far

[fresh grail]

extra rending never hurts in any case

[dark echo]

I appreciate your debunking rending. Saved me a couple points on a few builds.

[primal mesa]

i wouldnt really call it de bunking

[low oar]

10% is just pitiful

[frank ether]

so rending indeed can help damage fall-off because certain guns have worse armor pen characteristics past a distance? Adds up.

[strange sparrow]

10% rending is not really important for 2 points

[primal mesa]

just that grabbing rending strikes on every single build is not a great idea

[junior needle]

The plot has thickened, craime also looks at the code

[fresh grail]

its 2 points on unarmoured. it does much much more against armoured

[strange sparrow]

Huh?

[wanton dawn]

No way i look at the code on mah phone. Am not that crazy

[low yacht]

Does bleeding even mean anything

[low oar]

What if every gun took some of your health directly on reload

[junior needle]

I assumed you had done it previously like with some other things

[strange sparrow]

I don’t mind because I’m a zealot martyrdom main before veteran

[fresh grail]

Rending is for armour piercing, its just that in patch 13 it does a little bit against unarmoured too now. I was mentioning this because there was some confusion about the rager damage earlier

[low yacht]

I have it on my eviscerator and all it does is give me more time.

[strange sparrow]

Imagine being afraid on being close to death

[serene sage]

and melee now has durability, you need to sharpen your weapons after usage

[low oar]

And melee friendly fire is on

[low yacht]

Imagine not healing at every point.

[serene sage]

imagine weapon break mid horde

[wanton dawn]

I did some for modding. Code analysis is a pain in my butt so i dont wanna do it

For free

[strange sparrow]

Guys it’s okay

[frank ether]

lets make iags jam if you magdump too much

[strange sparrow]

We just make craime angry on Reddit

[low yacht]

I want to make a Valhallan build so I have to use boltgun and combat knife.

[strange sparrow]

Make some Reddit updoot

[low yacht]

Lasgun j meant

[strange sparrow]

Then he will try his best not debunking it now

[low yacht]

Lasgun and Combat Knife.

[frank ether]

I would use recon/knife but recon is dogwater

[wanton dawn]

In any case, idk if rending actually help that way for dropoff: havent tested it. BUT chances are it does like i said

[frank ether]

so autoguns are where its at

[wanton dawn]

Cuz dmg falloff is done through armor multiplier

[low oar]

Firing the bolter full auto now breaks your arms preventing you from using your arms for the rest of the game

[fresh grail]

it's not falloff

[wanton dawn]

It litterally is in afvanced weapon stats. Close and far stats

[low yacht]

It's a human boltgun you know that right? The marines use bigger boltguns.

So, no it won't break your arm.

[primal mesa]

its the same dmg boost at any range it cant be fall off

[wanton dawn]

Some even have reverse effect with improvement at range. Like unarmored on bolter

[low oar]

We just have poor rifle posture

[fresh grail]

For the weapon stat sure, but if you're on about rending then that has nothing to do with falloff and everything with the patch 13 changes.

[frank ether]

I'd take rending on bolter regardless

[wanton dawn]

Rending get better the worse the armor modifier. Smth smth diminishing return

[low yacht]

To be honest space marines have aimbot, so they don't need aim posture.

How the rifles are designed.

[low oar]

I'm pretty sure we'd break our wrists during a bolter full auto hipfire just from how we'd have to hold it

[low yacht]

Spacemarines can strongarm it with one arm.

[low oar]

Well guess what we're not

[low yacht]

Humans need to two hand it.

If it was a space marine sized bolter you would break something more then your arm.

[frank ether]

bruh

[junior needle]

More interesting data, it appears the bonus gained from rending strikes increased when I backed up further.

[wanton dawn]

Take 10% rending. Going from 10% dmg to 20% is a 2× dps increase. Going from 20% to 30% is a 1.5×

Basic math

[half parrot]

if it was a bolt rifle say goodbye to your normal human arms probably

[low oar]

One of your hands isn't resisting recoil when you hipfire. You'd put all of it on your one arm and most definitely break your wrist

[wanton dawn]

So in a sense yes, rending offset falloff because its relative efficiency increase as the armor modifier worsen

[low yacht]

I mean Adepta Sororitas use Boltguns.

They're fine.

[low oar]

Probably not hip firing like our animation does

[junior needle]

Our bolters are human sized bolters. Astartes sized bolters are the ones that break your arms. Even though they shouldn't given that their primary means of propulsion kicks in after leaving the barrel.

[wanton dawn]

Especially if the weapon goes from above to below 100% because rending efficiency above 100% is greatly reduced

[low yacht]

I mean you should see the rifles we use.

[frank ether]

Could this be because of how fall-off is coded for certain guns or is this how it works for all guns

[low oar]

They still produce thrust and all of the thrust is going onto one arm during a hipfire in our posture

[low yacht]

A boltgun on someone that is buff is no problem just a sore shoulder

[cedar dragon]

Stormbolter when?

[frank ether]

Certain guns will just note how they have far range damage percentage tables and rending could just be applying to those aswell

[low yacht]

What about combi boltguns.

[serene sage]

you can try Space Hulk ig

[low yacht]

I want combiweapons

[low oar]

Well. Hip firing is done at the hip and not the shoulder

[cedar dragon]

ork powerclaw when?

[low yacht]

They're not holding it at their shoulder?

I could've sworn

[wanton dawn]

I will do some rending testing when i have access to my game

[frank ether]

why do you not have access

[junior needle]

The initial charge produces blowblack, which is how it gets out of the barrel, but having an absurd initial charge for a rocket propelled projectile is silly.

[wanton dawn]

Cuz i am in a car

[junior needle]

No clue but anything is possible with obesefish, I can try it on another gun

[cedar dragon]

Human bionics/augments are a thing. One could assume the vet can get some implants to help with recoil.

[frank ether]

understandable

[frank ether]

something interesting to test is with weapons that have reverse fall-off

as in, think of like a helbore 3

I think that should have reverse fall-off by default no?

[wanton dawn]

What is your weapon maniac dmg at range ?

[junior needle]

Laspistol had a more pronounced damage boost

[wanton dawn]

Sorry, armor mod

In advanced stat

[frank ether]

thats a sizeable difference

also a good note for my heavy laspiss build

[wanton dawn]

60 to 76 is about 25% dmg increase so... 40% ?

[primal mesa]

trying it out on more enemies i cant even get different damage values on most things that arent ragers

its the same no matter distance or the ammount of rending. even with like 60% hand cannon

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, maniac goes from 150 to 90%. Rending fully applies at range

[junior needle]

68 to 76*

[primal mesa]

it also doesnt change the dmg vs carapcae at all at any distance

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, 11% increase

90 to 100%

[frank ether]

how do you not get an increase to carapace

[wanton dawn]

Carapace dropoff is lower

[primal mesa]

i mean on distance

[frank ether]

my only guess is you already have maxed out carapace damage

[wanton dawn]

I think crab said carapace was 50%?

[junior needle]

Looks like I've successfully deboonked

[primal mesa]

it is 50 on a decently rolled columnus

like 40-53% ish

[junior needle]

The downside is I was not spreading lies on the internet, a favorite passtime

[frank ether]

https://tenor.com/view/capybara-lowpoly-gif-24351906

[wanton dawn]

So yes, in your case rending does very little against close maniac but get full effect at far

Can you test close ?

Dmg increase should be relatively low

Maybe 1%, 2%

[torn root]

I wish I had 80% stopping power, but NO fatshark gives me 60

[junior needle]

Yep, here: #veteran-class message

In hindsight I just wasn't far enough to get the damage mod to its minimum amount at range. I was still at/above 100% at 30m here: #veteran-class message

The gun has a big positive in its maniac modifier, so I had to really back it up

[wanton dawn]

Alright. So here you have it folks: i am right

One counterpoint: rending does not really offset against falloff if your weapon mod is above 100% and drop sharply will remaining above 100

[wanton dawn]

It does a bit but really little

[junior needle]

Another mark on the board

[frank ether]

I have to test reverse fall-off behavior

no not talking about longshot

[wanton dawn]

You will have diminishing return from rending

[frank ether]

thats what I'm thinking too but I wanted to make sure

I've been taking the %10 rending on my helbore build and I'm not even sure why

[wanton dawn]

Sure, testing is always good

[strange sparrow]

Rending perform terribly with Hellbore I believe

[junior needle]

Works exactly as you'd expect

[frank ether]

I'd imagine so, I'm very likely just wasting a point for nothing

[strange sparrow]

what

It make inverse fall-off less impactful?

[frank ether]

thats, not bad

[wanton dawn]

No, reverse falloff make rending less impactful

[frank ether]

I still think MG4 probably should have normal fall-off though

[wanton dawn]

The impact is still a net positive

[junior needle]

Rending reduces how much reverse falloff makes your gun shit is at close range

[frank ether]

thats.. not bad

[wanton dawn]

Wait, semantics

[junior needle]

There, unstroked my statement

[frank ether]

as I said I think thats actually quite good

you want more damage when stuffs in your face

[wanton dawn]

I was talking about reverse falloff from FAR, not close

[frank ether]

oh,

semantics strikes again

Thats my fault for uh

not properly explaining I suppose

[junior needle]

It still helps at far range, but thats if your modifiers are shit there too. If you have positive modifiers at longer range it won't help much, but infantry lasguns have poor damage to unyielding and flak at all ranges.

[wanton dawn]

In any case, rending has 2 simple rules: the closer your armor mod is to 0%, the better rending is. And rending is low impact above 100%, 50% for carapace

[frank ether]

sooo, close range quick testing..
%0 rending weakspot vs crusher: 1281
%10 rending weakspot vs crusher 1358

Test loadout has a hb with %25 carapace and bring it on for what its worth

[wanton dawn]

What is your carapace mod ?

[junior needle]

With a helbore it's hard to tell what it is for charged shots

They seem to have higher penetration based on charge

[frank ether]

not sure if this math applies for fully charged shots aswell but its an 80 damage 80 stopping helbore

[junior needle]

It was listed in a patch some time ago

[wanton dawn]

Charged mess that up

[junior needle]

A long time ago, they should have 60-80 carapace mod fully charged iirc

[frank ether]

oh yes, %6 cant be right. That has to be for tap firing.

[wanton dawn]

Try tapfiring

Should be easier to see the diff

6% to 16% is massive

Almost 3×

[junior needle]

There's no way charged shots only deal 6%

[wanton dawn]

It is uncharged

[junior needle]

Yeah that screen should only be for tapfired

Which is very annoying

Because the damage stats are mostly hidden

[frank ether]

no rending tap firing is giving me 51 to 60 weakspot damage. %10 rending is like 101

there is some weird damage variance

that I can't explain

see I just got a tap hit for 145

[junior needle]

Are you using a gray gun and only rending strikes as a damage boost in your tree

[frank ether]

no its the full loadout

[junior needle]

Something is altering the results

Very likely

[frank ether]

yeah, though while this isnt good for investigating rending its good for looking at its impact on my loadout

[wanton dawn]

Plasma charge rate bug

I'd put a nickel on it being the same reason

[frank ether]

this is a 75 charge one

hmm

I wonder

I actually have an 80/80/80 helbore 3 aswelel

but that one has no respite which I don't trust

[junior needle]

Could just change the blessing

Not like you really want that on it

[frank ether]

oh its locked unfortunately

the funny thing is I actually like no respite

just not on hb3

give me no respite on hb1 or 2 and I'll take it

but anyways it would be very funny if we see a repeat of charge rate bug here

[junior needle]

Wouldn't it be consistent for the tap fire if it was?

Or did the plasma have variable damage per shot with the same charge as well

[wanton dawn]

Charge rate bug was akin to "preloading"

Basically the uncharged shot was not truly uncharged

No one would care for hb though

[torn root]

LETS FINISH BRICKING THE GUN

shoot me

[bitter turtle]

Looks OK enough as is

Just live with carapace dmg

It's not useless at least

[torn root]

I actually use that for killing crushers

[bitter turtle]

Ya so it's not really that bad

Just run carapace flak or carapace maniac and call it decent

[torn root]

its a slight upgrade from this

i think im going t4 sustained again so i can snipe wit it

[bitter turtle]

Sustained is bizarre imo but ig the 2nd blessing isn't too important

On a weapon with that fire rate I mean

[torn root]

yeah usually after dum dum you can use what ever

sustained i like for killing monsters

[bitter turtle]

How

You don't just dump the clip on them?

[torn root]

its like half a second puase required to keep it up

if even that long

[bitter turtle]

I mean you're just shooting less bullets then

[torn root]

and its not like i aim to use it 100% of the time

thats just mad work

might need a metranome for me to count how long the reset for sustained is

[serene sage]

fewer*

[bitter turtle]

Sorry

Fewer

I should be ashamed as a tutor

[serene sage]

yes

Happy New Year

[bitter turtle]

Still 5 hours here until time

Finally done with the hectic part of my trip

[serene sage]

nice!

[bitter turtle]

600 or 700 dollars down

Lol

[serene sage]

that's like not that bad travelling for a day

[torn root]

ttk atm with no changes

[bitter turtle]

It was spent all on merch

[torn root]

and i missed the proc its weird

[serene sage]

plasma has ttk right?

[torn root]

every weapon does?

[serene sage]

lower

im dumb

[torn root]

slightly better?

wish the game could just bless me with 80 damage and fire power with my 2 t4s

[torn root]

lower as in faster?, Probably, I think i just want it to kill Crushers as a bonus

[rapid hedge]

🥲

[torn root]

what a flaccid axe XD

[rapid hedge]

XD

[torn root]

bro i want a revolver with a 0% ammo stat ngl

see if i can cheese the mennance easier

[rapid hedge]

tf i dont think a 0% exists

but i wouldnt put it past fat shark 🤣

[junior needle]

it does

I've had one before

Other people have also posted some

[flint garden]

revolver doesnt even have ammo%

[frank ledge]

The tickler

[flint garden]

0% ammo plasma tho

[rapid hedge]

Kek

[torn root]

worth rolling for brutal momentum 4?

[rapid hedge]

fuck it imma upgrade this axe just to see how much hadron fucks me over

[torn root]

MELK THE GOAT!

BLOODLETTER 4 DOWN LMAO

[frank ledge]

The pocket exterminatus and the hair dryer

[rapid hedge]

guys\

ur not gonna believ this

but

all i gotta do is run out of stamina and it works xD

[serene sage]

maybe one day we will have human sized sword and shield

right guys

right

[bold sierra]

HOLY SHIT?

[rapid hedge]

pogs

not sure if i would change shattering impact for Get Hot , or change the perks

[bold sierra]

I mean specialists is funny so i can bonk mutants

[rapid hedge]

tru

or maybe change it to elite and keep the 10% reload speed

might just be enough to reach the breakpoints of some elites like the mauler

[plush dragon]

The best ranged weapons setup

hmm

gunner? I hardly know er

[rapid hedge]

best ranged setup is plasma gun

x)

[bold sierra]

speaking of plasma

[bold sierra]

elites

[gusty bison]

Plasma? No. Plasma TTK on crushers is actually shockingly slow

Even with optimal build

Cos you need to wait for the RMB charge

[wanton dawn]

Plasma has consistent crusher stagger. On uncharged ttk depends but you can reach consistent 2 shot. 3 is standard

You should not charge even against crusher

3 uncharged will yield better result

[hardy cedar]

the hellbore is the best weapon and why isn’t it evryone using it

[quick steeple]

yes, shattering does not have much of an effect with this particular wep. get hot 100%

[wanton dawn]

Cuz it isnt the "best"

[hardy cedar]

It gives me the most neuron activation

It is clearly the best

[wanton dawn]

Best is opinion anyway

[hardy cedar]

Source: trust me bro

Also i have 1000+ hours on hellbore only

Also i still go down every game

[serene sage]

As long as you don't die

[hardy cedar]

If im not suicidal im not having fun

[wanton dawn]

Dunno if srs or not

[hardy cedar]

Buddy

I wish.

I was joking

I mean, i wish i was joking

Damn punctuation

[wanton dawn]

I dont doubt you. But sometimes ppl joke like that not realizing that some ppl do thing like that

[hardy cedar]

I do do that

[wanton dawn]

Then you're prob in the lvl 1k+ club

[hardy cedar]

Nah just 700

[iron marten]

There’s always a bigger fish

[hardy cedar]

A fatter shark

[wanton dawn]

Ppl started calling me out but ive seen some 1k5 myself

[iron marten]

I’m only lvl580, bruh

[wanton dawn]

There are probably some 2k or even 3k rn

[hardy cedar]

No

Nuh huh

Not happening

Not within human capability

[iron marten]

I’ve heard tales of Darcy…

[wanton dawn]

Am 1k+ rn. Darcy was 1k2 when i was 500

[iron marten]

Weren’t they like, level 1k within the first 6months of dt release

[hardy cedar]

Is this real

The man you speak of

I’ve heard of felicia, but i have no level mod

[iron marten]

Well, the tale of Darcy ended with them being banned from here

[hardy cedar]

Too powerful

[wanton dawn]

I think currently i have the highest among vet chat regulars. Prob some higher among the not-so-talkative

[hardy cedar]

Wait, what level are you

[wanton dawn]

I think 103x smth

[hardy cedar]

103?

[wanton dawn]

1030+

[hardy cedar]

mozart’s requiem

[cosmic crag]

whales:

[iron marten]

Well, it’s almost New Years here in Australia. Gonna take my leave! And Happy New Year to you all!

[hardy cedar]

What is the best weapon, oh veteran of tertium

[wanton dawn]

Happy new year

[wanton dawn]

Your faith in the emperor

[hardy cedar]

Anything more bullet based?

Or laser

[wanton dawn]

Right now ? Meta wise ? Plasma

[hardy cedar]

Ah

I still don’t understand how laser rifles have recoil

[fossil basalt]

The long and short of it is "it felt bad in playtesting"

[torn root]

spoke about this yesterday

its a dumb thing if you really think about it lmao

[hardy cedar]

I mean

[torn root]

but because of starwars so many ppl want to be able to shoot lasers

[wanton dawn]

So instead we have the worst kick out of all vet guns

[hardy cedar]

I ve never broken my wrist turning on a flashlight

[torn root]

the plasma gun makes more sense than the laser guns do

and that's weird

matter of fact, laser guns not being beams is already an issue for me

[fossil basalt]

You can take that one up with GW lol

[shadow aurora]

Lasgun has bad recoil???

Whatre you talking about

[wanton dawn]

Mg12 recoil is pretty noticiable

[shadow aurora]

From my experience its barely even there

Ill go try it tho rq in meatgrinder

[torn root]

if you shot by just presing the button you can easily see it

lmao

[fossil basalt]

I think the important takeaway here is that it's 38,000 years in the future and humanity got so technologically advanced before collapsong inward that the technology we use is essentially magic even to those who put it together and this is a scifi setting so don't apply logic and keep shooting

[rapid hedge]

What we really need is to stick the lasgun bayonet under the plasma gun. Bayonet weight lowers recoil , and the jet of plasma heats the blade for ez cuts

[shadow aurora]

I mean lasguns are supposed be to be precision weapons they should have low kick ham

[torn root]

plasma heat would ruin the blade, and the blade whould honestly add more sway

hard to keep a steady aim with added barrel weight

[rapid hedge]

just be an ogryn

[fossil basalt]

Or a spes marnie

[rapid hedge]

xD

[shadow aurora]

Unless you were talking about the animation when shooting idk what you're talking about

Because i can mag dump and my crosshair position barely even changes

If at all

[torn root]

1 sec

[cosmic crag]

We grandfathered in recoil for those recruits who were just too used to guns vibrating their bones

[wanton dawn]

Yes

[shadow aurora]

Oh well yeah the animation is a bit goofy

[torn root]

actually not the worst recoil but it IS noticable

the kick animation is ASS tho

the animation probably needs work

[frank ether]

I'm somewhat certain they should be hitscan

[torn root]

yes

[frank ether]

so beams essentially

[torn root]

would make sense

lasers having travel time only makes sense if an object encased in plasma is carrying it

and in that case it still wouldnt be a laser

sci-fi without the science

[frank ether]

I dont think warhammer was ever a very scientific IP

[torn root]

literally lmao

[shadow aurora]

It has explanations for its tech but yeah irl it wouldn't be possible

[torn root]

the guns and weaponry are all sci-fi

[untold flame]

Oh god the lasgun recoil argument

[torn root]

its not supposed to be real, that we know, i just dont like the concept of shooting lasers all together

[untold flame]

As old as time itdelf

[shadow aurora]

We already met an agreement

[shadow aurora]

I like it

[untold flame]

Lasguns having recoil is cooler ergo they should have recoil

[torn root]

give me gauss rifles or railguns

that will settle an itch

[shadow aurora]

It gives them more kick but the animation makes it look way more powerful then it really is

So either it needs to be toned down or my shoulder needs to break with each shot

[untold flame]

Could probably tone it down on the smaller lasguns mg 1 and 4

Its supposed to fuck up your follow up shots but i figure the lighter marks should have ez folloup

[fossil basalt]

Railguns? What, are you friends with the Tau? That'd be heresy

[torn root]

Bolter is kinda like one

eeeh i take that back

but having one would be cool

cooler than a laser rifel...

[shadow aurora]

Yeah rail guns use stuff in the barrel to speed up shots

Would be neat tho

Btw is a no keystone build for vet viable

[untold flame]

Yes

[shadow aurora]

Kickass

[fossil basalt]

Some would even argue more viable: vet had insanely good talents right before all the keystones

[torn root]

100%

[fossil basalt]

And most of the keystones in any average situation are next to useless to mid

[torn root]

most of the keystones do kinda minimal work compared to some of the talents vet use to have

and ignoreing keystones can get you more agency elsewhere

like more grenades

[gusty bison]

Railguns exist in the imperium

[wanton dawn]

No keystone vet would usually be worse than equivalent focus mark vet for dmg and surv

[torn root]

more raw damage etc.

[gusty bison]

They are also verbotten for anyone not mechanicus

Sooo

Rip

[gusty bison]

Uh

Right and mid are insanely good

[torn root]

probably wouldnt do as much as having a key sone though yeah

[gusty bison]

Some of the best keystones in the game

[wanton dawn]

Focus mark keystone numbers are bonker

[fossil basalt]

That's why I said average situation

A decent vet who knowx how to not spam ping keystone ain't average

[torn root]

Focus Target imo is Vet's best but peoplel get hung up over using it at max value all the time

[gusty bison]

Max value is spamming it constantly

[wanton dawn]

You still "spam" even with keystone. The error is thinking you should save it

[gusty bison]

Cos Redirect fire refreshes and ticks up even if u only have 1-2 stacks

[fossil basalt]

The error is binding M1 to ping

[wanton dawn]

Nobody need to do that though

[gusty bison]

Id say the average vet knows how to press a button

[torn root]

kinda, but some people think max value is just waiting for max stacks to use it on one dude out of a pack of 7 elites/specials

[gusty bison]

They gotta know how to shoot a gun lmao

[wanton dawn]

We dont judge a talent value by its worst users...

[fossil basalt]

Button=/=trigger /j

[torn root]

even at 1 stack Focus target is really good, especially with some of the augments

[wanton dawn]

Otherwise i tell yah, plasma is a crap gun

[gusty bison]

Boom

[shadow aurora]

Alright yeah i got myself a glass canon ex stance build going seems like itll be fun. Thanks fellas

[wanton dawn]

In any case, focus target is an easy perma-uptime 12% dmg on top of spammable 8-12% single target dmg, up to 34%

And i did not even counted thoughness regen

[gusty bison]

I wish exec stance was more... appealing

[gusty bison]

32% dmg u mean :P

[wanton dawn]

Yeah whatever

[gusty bison]

8 stacks of redirect is 32%

[shadow aurora]

I think its appealing. But if youre talking about buffs yeah it could use some

[placid portal]

Old exe was like straight up 50% dmg right?

[bitter turtle]

Just bind tag to your shoot key for focus

[wanton dawn]

Yes

[gusty bison]

I think it needs more utility

[fossil basalt]

The highlights for sure should be innate

[wanton dawn]

What if it gave 60% thoughness and reloaded your gun ?

[placid portal]

^^^
Exe stance should just have all elite/specials highlighted by default

[bitter turtle]

What if it knocked enemies back and gave you extra toughness

[placid portal]

Maybe bosses but honestly don't know

[torn root]

NO!

[shadow aurora]

I think making the highlights for your team inate would be nice it doesnt seem worth the point

[bitter turtle]

But that might be too strong defensively

So let's remove the damage portion

[fossil basalt]

That's just VoC with extra steps?

Lol

[shadow aurora]

Yeah...

[bitter turtle]

Nah this is executioner stance

[wanton dawn]

There is litterally no vet talent that doesnt benefit you directly that is worth taking. None

[placid portal]

Or heck give the the side upgrade of marking ogryns/monstrosities also have bonus dmg modifier

[frank ether]

might aswell trash exec and start over at this point

[bitter turtle]

Also what if you could take another talent that let's it revive people

[placid portal]

Ye

[frank ether]

with how much of its identity given to glugger

[wanton dawn]

Born leader ? Crap. Enemies highlight ? Crap. Covering fire ? Crap

[frank ether]

they could just give me a passive ranged damage buff as a blitz instead of executioner

and I'd take it over executioner

[shadow aurora]

Nvm misread

[placid portal]

Tbh the highlighting enemies for teammates should also refresh when you kill highlighted enemies

[bitter turtle]

What if executioner gave you stealth instead

[placid portal]

[bitter turtle]

But put the damage at the end of the activation

[frank ether]

Oh yea

the worst part about executioner is

[bitter turtle]

Also give it threat reduction

[torn root]

ngl vet doesnt need much to help their team

[frank ether]

you are competing with your team

[torn root]

be selfish on vet

[placid portal]

This is too true

[frank ether]

teammate gets a kill, you are denied of your breakpoints

horrible dogshit design there

[torn root]

if VoC isnt enough for your team they're doomed to begin with

[placid portal]

Vet's playstyle kinda selfish when it comes to elite/special hunting innit?

[gusty bison]

Depends.

Middle keystone isnt selfish

[wanton dawn]

It isnt about selfishness. It is just that all talent that doesnt applies to you all happen to be worthless

[bitter turtle]

Revive too

[gusty bison]

Cos everyone gets a stam and tou boost and also damage

[bitter turtle]

Also worthless

[torn root]

i spam Focus Target but tbh im the one killing the target 95% of the time

i use target down

[placid portal]

Gotta get that 5% stamina

[gusty bison]

Well yes cos u already have ur crosshair on target

[torn root]

but that and VoC are all i care to grab for the team

and they are for me mostly

[frank ether]

It still gives you the full benefits when someone else does the killing. If it was designed like ass (executioner) then only the killer would get the toughness/stamina/damage buff benefits

[fossil basalt]

It doesn't help that most of vet's stuff relies on elite/specialist kills

[gusty bison]

The team buff part is redirect fire and target down

[gusty bison]

Ah fair

[frank ether]

So you are helping your team while also being totally selfish

which is good

[gusty bison]

Only exec stance, focus target and the cdr no?

And focus target doesnt need u to kill them

[bitter turtle]

Et and ck

Also need you to kill them

[gusty bison]

ET doesnt need elites

CK i guess

[frank ether]

ET is fine

[bitter turtle]

Ya but you need to kill

[frank ether]

any kill triggers ET

[fossil basalt]

And one of your strongest toughness regen skill

[placid portal]

Et?

[gusty bison]

^ this

[frank ether]

you can headshot some garbage and ET will proc

[bitter turtle]

I'm just pointing out the ones that need you to kill damnit

No bulli

[gusty bison]

Out for Blood?

Out for blood doesnt need elite kills da faq

[placid portal]

Ye tru

[torn root]

Volley Adept, Confirmed Kill, Demolition Team

[placid portal]

But you gotta go to the weird -20% sprint stamina

[gusty bison]

CK is the weakest tou regen of the 3

Its solid, but its deffo the weakest

[frank ether]

confirmed kill is the most adaptable though

[wanton dawn]

Ck is usually better due to ability to "save" regen past 100%

[bitter turtle]

You also need to kill for marksman focus stacks

[gusty bison]

It does follow a very nice TDR talent

[frank ether]

CK's point is that it will fit into any build

be it ranged or melee

[gusty bison]

This can be any enemy

Not just elites or spec

[placid portal]

Should I put Exhil Takedown on Brauto?

[gusty bison]

This is true

[placid portal]

[bitter turtle]

I'm just pointing them out 😔

[gusty bison]

CK is the most versatile

[torn root]

that shit needs to be removed from the tree

[gusty bison]

I wouldnt say strongest

[torn root]

like actually

[frank ether]

So it makes sense that its the middle path option

[bitter turtle]

Remove born leader first

[wanton dawn]

On the contrary, exhil is usually weakest because it is the least versatile and useless in melee

[bitter turtle]

Unborn it

[gusty bison]

Born leader is hilariously good in one build

[torn root]

yeah just as useless too

[gusty bison]

And meh otherwise

[placid portal]

Target Down + Confirm Kill is basically prenerf Confirm kill

[frank ether]

Taking exhil always was just announcing to the game that you think you can aim

[torn root]

I love Confirmed Kill, more stamina for Deadshot

[gusty bison]

Exhil is solid with the right gun

CK is mediocre in melee anyway

[gusty bison]

CK doesnt give stamina

Da faq?

[torn root]

oh nah

[gusty bison]

Oh the follow up node

[placid portal]

He means target down right?

[torn root]

i mistook it for target down

big brain!

[placid portal]

[gusty bison]

Ye lel

Target down is amazing

CK is ok

Like a solid 7/10

[placid portal]

Too good for this cruel 41st millenium

[torn root]

ET>CK

sorry

[wanton dawn]

Ck is the best one in quickswap to kill prio target scenario

[frank ether]

what does the toughness node even do for marksman focus btw

[placid portal]

Nothing

[gusty bison]

Nah thats OfB

[torn root]

damage reduction for something so easy is too good