veteran-class

[lusty jetty]

"not bad" lol

[junior needle]

Which was very surprising

[terse idol]

You dont need rending imo on pgun

[junior comet]

I believe you but I want to hear your reasoning

[terse idol]

Its why shattering impact isn't very good

Because of the interaction where if you get a headshot on either a mauler or crusher it turns into flak

I think...

[junior comet]

How strong is it the 10 % rending for my shovel when I go whapping into hordes then?

And my grenades that have rending already?

[terse idol]

Also pgun does so much damage pound for pound that frankly I don't think rending is gonna change alot

[low oar]

Probalbly like 2.5% more damage since shovel will deal full damage

[terse idol]

I mean

Okay for a shovel it might be better

[junior needle]

DOT effects don't apply onslaught anymore.

[terse idol]

Bur it's still not very good imo

[junior comet]

Ah ok

[terse idol]

Shovel I'd

[junior comet]

Good thank you lads/lasses/something

[terse idol]

Shovel is terrible against crushers

[junior comet]

I love me a good shovel

[halcyon zephyr]

8th one bites the dust.

[junior needle]

With just the 10% rending you'd do poorly, you need uncanny for even respectable carapace damage

[junior needle]

Take dumdum over ff when you can, it's bugged and much better than the tooltip implies

[halcyon zephyr]

I was re-blessing it at blue to the highest tier blessing I have to get it a higher rating before consecrating again. I only have DD T3

[midnight totem]

for the "for the emperor node", it activates when you use your ability, and not after you get out of stealth right?

[junior comet]

I have 1 point left. "Competive urge" vs "Redirect Fire!" (8 stacks node)

[keen wharf]

bruh, that's so sad, im doing 999 Damage on Flak Ragers without a Crit and almost 2 shotting them leaving them on like 0 hp.

[junior needle]

Has the total rating when consecrating thing ever been confirmed?

[halcyon zephyr]

No idea.

[junior needle]

I always change it away from stuff I actually want towards higher weighted and useless blessings

Like terrifying barrage

[junior comet]

Guys regarding the keystone "Focus Target" is it me or is the keynodes not amazeballs?

Just going with the actual keystone seems well enough. Please prove me wrong if I am

[junior needle]

That way I have less chance to roll the dogshit ones for my second slot if I got something I’d want to upgrade, and I have another chance of getting it higher tier

[gilded rock]

Plasma gun feels weaker than when I first tried it

Pathetically weaker

[junior needle]

Pgun is the strongest it’s ever been

[junior needle]

The one that gives team wide toughness is pretty good

[junior comet]

Would you skip the other 2?

[bleak dirge]

i have been nonexistent here for a while but is this decent

[gilded rock]

When I first tried it it one shotted just about every special, now it doesn't even one shot flamers sometimes

[fading anchor]

whats the best recon lasgun

for overall use

[drifting oak]

uhhh

fast firing reverse falloff one

unfortunately i forgot which one that is

[fading anchor]

ffff

[drifting oak]

lemme check lol

[fading anchor]

please

i cant even understand the differences

[low oar]

VID

[drifting oak]

yeah it's not obvious

[low oar]

The blue one

[fading anchor]

one shoot fast one shoot slow

[terse idol]

8 stack is good

Competive urge is good

[fading anchor]

okay now best power sword?

[terse idol]

But I would prioritize 8 stack

[low oar]

8 stacks is more useful imo

[low oar]

VI

[terse idol]

Consistent 32% extra damage on full stacjs

[low oar]

Powersword VI just has way better anaimations and is slightly faster

[drifting oak]

okay so recons:
2: shoots small bullets slow. Only good for pacing ammo consumption (you "overshoot" enemies less) and your walk speed while shooting isn't affected meaning you can actually kite with it, the other recons cause you to slow down
6: shoots small bullets fast, kills fastest
7: shoots big bullets slow, comparable to 6 but worse at stacking per-hit talents, so usually it's just bad compared to 6

[drifting oak]

i'd argue they're not comparable
PS3 has a perfectly horizontal heavy1, PS6 has a perfectly horizontal light1

I wish I could make a PS9 that has literally nothing but perfectly horizontal attacks, but it is what it is

[terse idol]

Ps6 is better for a food reason at least

The animation for charging is better

[halcyon zephyr]

12th attempt.

meme attempt.

[acoustic wyvern]

Basically

You wont stop anything but theres nothing close to you to stop you

[halcyon zephyr]

exactly!

[stoic mantle]

which do i invest in

[junior needle]

The 6d is the least bad when built and talented properly, but they're all in the dumpster currently and I highly recommend not wasting your money/resources on them until they get buffed. Just collect well rolled ones from the shop until then.

Here's some fine examples to illustrate the point. They just suck stat wise. Their dps is way too low comparatively and their ammo pool is not nearly deep enough.

[acoustic wyvern]

Marvelous. Let nothing stop you.

[junior needle]

Invest in a 6 PS because it's just gooder

[halcyon zephyr]

both lol

[halcyon zephyr]

it's an absolute pea shooter

[junior needle]

Seems to be what most people do, I don't bother with any of the keystones personally though

[stoic mantle]

wow, hadron did not use me like a toaster

[empty badge]

Peeps, How do we feel about Vets tree right now? Im running a basically elite/special hunter with Rashad/mk2 revolver, with the weapon specialist swap, and down the specialist for ranged (left side), and the +20% toughness on swap(3s cd), with shout pickup/+50 toughness

[halcyon zephyr]

The meme roll is the best roll

[empty badge]

I'm not on or I would take pictures of the build, but its basically help with waves, when any elite is pinged, swap with 7-10 stacks of ranged specialist with +30% dmg on swap, gun down specialist/elite, and return to melee. My weapons/accessories aren't perfected yet, but I'm wondering if there is anything missing/ more fun elsewhere build wise.

[junior needle]

You'll feel the mobility but that's a great roll

[acoustic wyvern]

You are now a power blender

[terse idol]

Honestly I would go infil

Weapon spec and infil just

It gives you alot more utility

[stoic mantle]

Yell at things

[jaunty tinsel]

Hi, I'm thinking about using the shovel as my melee weapon. What're the pros/cons between the default shovel (the one that doesnt have that special pick attack) and the Mk VII shovel?

[empty badge]

I like the play style of the weapon spec, but Im seeing numbers at the end of each match, and its not very good. Highest Spec kills, but damage is minimal

[halcyon zephyr]

exec mark. Do your fucking job

[terse idol]

That's fine

If anything you're meeting your quota of spec kills

Which is in line with how weapon spec plays

Truuust

Infil weapon spec will enhance it

[junior needle]

You don't need the biggest numbers if you're efficiently eliminating dangerous enemies, which you are from your description and the fact that you're using revolver.

Also you only need one stack of weapon spec for your guaranteed crit

[potent iris]

depending on how your scoreboard is setup the biggest damage numbers are gonna be made up of a ton of poxwalkers

which is just...irrelevant damage

[junior needle]

Yeah use something that lets you separate ranged/melee damage

[acoustic wyvern]

Remove poxwalkers

[junior needle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/126

Here it is

[sharp ember]

the default shovel's special attack is a high-speed stagger that works on anything (that isn't a boss)*, while the mk3 or mk7's folding spike lets you kill crushers in 2 or possibly 1 hit, whereas the default shovel needs the Uncanny Strike to be able to decently damage carapace armor at all

[drifting oak]

strongly disagree, the ability to insta-mulch an entire wave of poxwalkers frees you up to help the team elsewhere

[forest scaffold]

trauma staff be like

[sharp ember]

their normal swings are very similar, the mk3 shovel does have an overhead heavy though

[jaunty tinsel]

I'm currently valuing my melee weapons more for their defensive potential (stamina + dodge ability, etc) since I'm heavily specced into left tree. With that in mind, do you think one is better than the other?

[empty badge]

ill get that one, because I have this scoreboard

[drifting oak]

if poxwalker damage was irrelevant, venting shriek+flames psyker wouldn't be as useful as it is

[potent iris]

I have some bad news for ya

well no I don't think it's straight up useless to be serious

[forest scaffold]

Hordes are a force multiplier

so getting rid of them matters

its just that its not as important as trappers, dogs, and flamers.

[terse idol]

The damage on the scoreboard to poxwalkers is irrelevant but cleaving down the hordes is important

[potent iris]

ty I was trying to find a way to say that lmao

[sharp ember]

if you have no need for an anti-armor option, standard shovel will keep you safe with its on-demand special stagger, but i would otherwise recommend a mk3 shovel for the spike option and balanced moveset

[drifting oak]

people like the mk3 pickshovel? I hated its moveset, I like the mk7

[empty badge]

Im trying to figure out how to change the display for my own/teammates hp bars etc but i can never re-size them with the mods I've found

[junior needle]

It's a plugin, so you need that and the regular scoreboard mod

[empty badge]

gotcha. I have the regular one, jsut didn;'t know about that

[forest scaffold]

Just remember that scoreboard doesn't tell you everything.

Its not particularly hard to do insane amounts of damage right now.

[potent iris]

like clearing hordes is a valid and obvs necessary thing to do but it's not like the vet with 150 special kills or the Ogryn that mulched 80 elites aren't as valuable just because the dude spamming flamer all day did top damage

[forest scaffold]

And it gets easier the better you are.

[drifting oak]

one of the things scoreboard is bad at is "hey who's on backline duty"

the guy who stalls the backspawns of elites or gunners

and sweeps up all the specials

[forest scaffold]

Sometimes I do this with my face

[drifting oak]

that role is important as fuck

[forest scaffold]

You get like 500hp when downed

more than once has that come in handy

[drifting oak]

it's way more than 500

[forest scaffold]

(don't intentionally do this)

[drifting oak]

it has to be somewhere up wards of like 5000

given how long you can facetank

[sharp ember]

wound-stacking and tactically getting downed to refill your hp bar

[drifting oak]

if it were 500 you'd die in seconds

[stoic mantle]

What the fuck, hadron

[sharp ember]

RUINED

[fading grove]

is Cleave Targets the stat that doesn't matter with Brutal Momentum?

[forest scaffold]

V to inspect

[sharp ember]

affirmative

[forest scaffold]

hover over the stat

[potent lichen]

How is this looking as a start?

[sharp ember]

why cleave stat when blessing do all cleave

[forest scaffold]

replace devastating strike with savage sweep or shred

replace weakspot damage with flak

[radiant chasm]

cleave stat does stuff

[forest scaffold]

Brutal Momentum is a flat +4 cleave bonus

[junior needle]

3/4 scuffed and dumped finesse, which affects attack speed

[forest scaffold]

on 99% of weapons that get it

[forest scaffold]

irrelevant on chain sword

you're talking 1-2% less DPS

which is literally unnoticeable

[junior needle]

Attack speed is always relevant

[forest scaffold]

No

No not in this small of a margin

Especially on the mk4

[junior needle]

If I'm not attacking fast my OCD will kill me

[sharp ember]

alternative blessing choice is replace D. Strike with Bloodletter, to specialize in sawing bosses

[forest scaffold]

and when veteran gets 20% attack speed in his tree

80% finesse or 69% is an unnoticeable difference

[junior needle]

I can notice it

I'm a nooticer

[forest scaffold]

No

we're talking a difference of sub 10s milliseconds

[gaunt hinge]

I still dont understand why they made devastating strike so dogshit

[empty badge]

its less than 1%

its fine

[forest scaffold]

aint no one noticing that

[junior needle]

Does the mk4 chainsword still struggle to activate rampage against bruisers?

[forest scaffold]

Sure, if it were 40%

No

it has one huge gigasweep

and the heavy attacks reliably proc it

[junior needle]

It got its cleave adjusted awhile back but I stopped using it since then

[potent lichen]

Yeah my horde clear combo is pretty much just heavies

[forest scaffold]

So you can heavy attack once and keep rampage up on lights

[junior needle]

Rampage doesn't give power anymore apparently

[forest scaffold]

I just light attack with both chainswords

[junior needle]

So if you NEED a heavy to do it, you'll need to keep using heavies

[woven geode]

Is it possible to get T4 blessings from blues?

[forest scaffold]

Yes

[woven geode]

Thanks

[forest scaffold]

the higher the rating, the more likely it is

with a 380 being the most likely

and a 300 the least

[woven geode]

Thanks

[forest scaffold]

that said, you're going to, a vast majority of the time, roll a tier 3 blessing on blue on weapons between 340 and 380

[terse idol]

are there stats to back it up?
There was discussion of replacing a blessing on a weapon you upgrade to t4 to gurantee a t4

[sharp ember]

what

[terse idol]

But that doesn't seem to be the case

[sharp ember]

that was the huge buff about it

[forest scaffold]

that seems like crackamaimey talk

[woven geode]

im gonna keep trying to roll t4 blessings on my 370+ weapons

[forest scaffold]

I can just comment on my personal experience with ~1600 hours of gameplay

[terse idol]

Sounds like crazy talk speaking of a blue getting t4's

Based on power level

The 318 blue with power cycler 4

[forest scaffold]

Blue will net you a tier 3

Gold will net you a tier 4

on weapons between 330-380

with the higher the rating marginally moving the chances around

[junior needle]

It was giving power AND damage in a much larger amount than it seemed. I heard it was fixed on here.

[stoic mantle]

I'm done

[forest scaffold]

RNG without smoothing is just RNG

just because its unlikely doesn't mean impossible

[sharp ember]

oh, maybe this is about the Rampage 4 bug, which was giving +96% power?

[stoic mantle]

thats 3 374+ guns bricked in a row by hadron

[tall torrent]

I wish weapon specialist worked for helbore lasguns

[forest scaffold]

Rampage should be power now

[tall torrent]

It’s weird how it doesn’t

[junior needle]

It was only rampage 4?

[sharp ember]

yeah thats the one i know of

[forest scaffold]

granted, DTwartide doesn't corroborate that information

and it apparently pulls directly from the game files

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Not super hard to test I guess

[potent lichen]

Preferences on Mk4 vs Mk13 chsword?

[forest scaffold]

mk13 is better all around

mk4 is better at single targets

[potent lichen]

Oh... maybe I'm using the wrong one then XD

Is the strat with 13 just to spam lights?

[terse shell]

10k plasteel and 62 days of checking melk and still no power cycler IV

[junior needle]

Well proccing rampage did seem to give the light horizontal the ability to cleave 3 bruisers

[wanton dawn]

Need to retest rampage in psy. But am still on winter break

[visual remnant]

What's the dump stat for plasma ??

[midnight totem]

Thermal resist

[drifting oak]

heat res I think

[midnight totem]

Blow up

[visual remnant]

Tank u

[drifting oak]

you should usually only be LMB spamming

and the heat generation from that is completely fine

[wanton dawn]

[drifting oak]

sometimes open with a charged shot for the memes

just for fun, as a treat

[wanton dawn]

Am no longer saying anything about plasma

[left raft]

Question! is there a specific build vets use for the HM twins that if you don't use people will kick or leave? lmao

[drifting oak]

but in terms of ammo consumption just click LMB and get kills without oblitearting your ammo supply

[forest scaffold]

Yes

I can confirm

that Rampage is power

[left raft]

been trying to get that HM penance and wanted to know lol

[forest scaffold]

Too lazy to take a video cause I'd have to mute my discord chat

but yeah, Rampage is power

super noticeable on bruisers

You can hit ~4

[drifting oak]

uhhhhh

[forest scaffold]

then you can hit ~12

[wanton dawn]

The question is more: is it 36 or 96 ?

[potent lichen]

Dumpstat for 13 chsword is mobility, right?

[drifting oak]

shout, resupply bags, grenade regen (that last one is good period, not just on HM twins)

if you don't have shout and resupply on twins you're trolling

[left raft]

Oh! okay I already use those lmao

[forest scaffold]

uh

I can hit 20 bruisers

with rampage up

and 4

without

[left raft]

then it's just a skill issue I guess lmao

[forest scaffold]

I don't know what the upper limit is

[drifting oak]

people might yell about your choice of weapon but like IMO if you can use it, it's fine

[forest scaffold]

but its clearly WAY higher than 32%

(I'm testing with tier 3)

[drifting oak]

Plasma is "best" because it consistnetly applies shattering impact to the twins

but you can use most anything if you're comfortable with a strong melee weapon

[wanton dawn]

That was the bug: it was not 36% like tooltip but 36% + smth like 60%

[drifting oak]

don't take, like, a lasgun + the original shovel, I guess

[wanton dawn]

So more than it should

[forest scaffold]

It was .36 x .50 from power x damage

so it was ~104% damage

[sharp ember]

oh what the heck is rampage 3 bork too

[left raft]

I'm currenlty using a chain axe and a fan the hammer revolver on it

[wanton dawn]

So, is it still thr case ?

[forest scaffold]

Uh

I'm on my psyker

and too lazy to swap to another character

to test

[wanton dawn]

Apparently yes. Anyway, rampage is still limited by its activation condition

[junior needle]

Didnt quite get to 20 bruisers when I tried it, but maybe it's the tier of rampage

oh wait

I have savage sweep

ON THIS

MY TESTING IS USELESS

[forest scaffold]

ah yeah, that was my fault too lmao

Savage Sweep

I thought I had shred

[sharp ember]

god damn it guys

[forest scaffold]

Gonna go swap to shred req

[sharp ember]

[junior needle]

I don't have another 4 that can not have sweep

[forest scaffold]

I blame the time

me eepy

(not real, just dumb)

[wanton dawn]

Btw, dump stat on plasma is arguably: ammo, charge, then thermal resist. The question being: how many shot you get from 0 to 100 heat as this is your dps limiter

[forest scaffold]

But yeah, its power

testing it with shred and rampage

[drifting oak]

naw do not dump plasma ammo

[forest scaffold]

And its the correct amount of power

+32%

[drifting oak]

i know the range is small but plasma needs all the ammo it can get

[forest scaffold]

ammo is literally the dump stat though.

Its not noticeable between 60 and 80%

[drifting oak]

i notice :I

[forest scaffold]

so a 380 with a 60% dump stat ammo in ammo is preferred

[drifting oak]

i literally rerolled a plasma gun away from dumped ammo

[forest scaffold]

because everything else effects damage or DPS

[drifting oak]

but I was talking like 30-40% ammo

[forest scaffold]

Oh

[wanton dawn]

I would argue but last time i argue about plasma i was called a redditor

[forest scaffold]

yeah I wouldn't dump ammo lower than ~60%

[terse idol]

I'm gonna say it

TR is...

[forest scaffold]

but a 380 with 80x4 and 60% ammo is the correct plasma gun

[terse idol]

Debatable

Yes 3rd dump

But never lower than... 70

I just think limiting the shots wiilll hurt

[forest scaffold]

and its what I'm saving up for

[terse idol]

The best pgun is balanced with an 80 tr

[forest scaffold]

I'm gonna get ~10 million credits and ~50k plasteel

and just shit out all the plasma guns

[wanton dawn]

As i said: need to calculate

[forest scaffold]

until I get a handful of 380s with the perfect stat spread

[wanton dawn]

Arguably you need to calculate best balance between charge and thermal for optimal 0 to 100 on base shot

[sharp ember]

luv me ammunition

[wanton dawn]

But nobody care for that kind of optimization

[sharp ember]

more dakka less trouble

[terse idol]

oh yeah missed that

Urgh

I just wish i was more into math so I could figure out the optimal Charge rate

[wanton dawn]

Anyway, plasma easily reach 25% ammo reserve now so ammo is less of an issue compared to last patch

[terse idol]

Because if anything that is the dumpstat on current play style pgun

[tiny summit]

The want to farm up 80 dmg/stopping power helbores and buy cosmetics

[empty badge]

heyo, building a Rashad, And i have 3 options here, anyone want to throw in ideas?

[wanton dawn]

And charge rate is no longer a base dmg multiplier

[terse idol]

Yeah

[terse idol]

Even when it was, you didn't exactly dump it, you just had to find that secret 73

[empty badge]

3 i built, the 347 base is just my very first one

[terse idol]

To get... 2% damage

[wanton dawn]

You just need to find optimal thermal resist though.

[terse idol]

Need the max 9 shots so

I'm assuuming

Like somewhere in like 77-80

[wanton dawn]

Plus, you assume 0 to 100. Which in practice might need wiggle room

Mine is smth like... 13 heat per shot

[terse idol]

Hmm I think somebody already did the calculations to figure that out...

But! Higher is better on TR
At this point i think its just a fight to get 9 shots left click, within like 1 or 2 points

Which eh

[wanton dawn]

Anyway, am redditor. Am dumb

Also plasma smells like sweat and meta

[terse idol]

Truuue

[wanton dawn]

Embrace melee only bayonet

[frozen meadow]

Plasma is fun but I feel like gets boring quick

[terse idol]

Yeah thats what hit me recently

I've returned back to the roots

Kanteael ia

My beloved

[frozen meadow]

I have gone for its heavier brother

The x11 or whatever

Feels so nice

[terse idol]

[empty badge]

So this one is the one im thinking of working with. What chnages would y'all recommend?

[midnight mortar]

Thrust to Brutal Momentum.

Decapitator to Headtaker.

Though it's a bit bricked anyway since you also need unarmored.

If you want to be able to oneshot bruisers.

[empty badge]

it is? Shoot

[halcyon zephyr]

If only it wasn't so loud

[wind echo]

they should add the imperial infantryman’s handbook as a throwable or a cosmetic for the ogryn rock

[umbral scaffold]

what about the detonation packs from the carnival missions as a reskin for the ogryn nuke

actually thats stupid dont do that

[wind echo]

would be funny

[umbral scaffold]

it'd be funny yes

but would just blow up the floor

[halcyon zephyr]

salvagable or not worth?

[crude ermine]

No

[wind echo]

keep

[halcyon zephyr]

I've dumped 25k plasteel today and gotten... fuckall

[crude ermine]

Darktide

[umbral scaffold]

super saiyan ogryn

[torn moat]

Best perks for Mk IV chainaxe?

[midnight totem]

I think I can make serrated blades work for a chainsword

its basically an extra +1 on the rev attacks if you already have bloodletter

[muted gorge]

what do i want on a good plasma gun? and what main talents do yall reccomend?

[wanton dawn]

Frags, survivalist, shout, focus target

[wanton dawn]

As for plasma stats: am not debating that otherwise ill get a new title. Soz

[junior needle]

You want headtaker/brutal and flak/unarmored for maximum horde clear. It's unfortunately quite particular about breakpoints and if you can't one shot bruisers, your horde clearing goes down drastically.

It's very hard to get an optimal rashad

Can be more forgiving depending on your melee boosts in the tree

[halcyon zephyr]

clip it

[empty badge]

damn noted

What do you use for the hp-bars?

[frail bolt]

2k worth of plasteel. is this even good?

[junior needle]

The psyk has them natively but the healthbars mod for actual play

It has 2 bars because they the native and the mod overlap in the psyk

[empty badge]

gotcha. thank you for that

[terse idol]

We gotta hit the yeet

Azreals vid

Packs of 4 bruisers

[frail bolt]

goddamn

what axe is that?

[terse idol]

Rashad

[frail bolt]

nice

[teal abyss]

Shredder is lower then what I would accept on something I’m trying to main but it’s certainly workable til you can find something a lil higher

I’m feeling the pain rn trying to get an Evi on my zealot

[frail bolt]

did i get screwed over in this? wasnt even sure if i shoulda tried since the shread is only 58%

[midnight mortar]

It's not great. Though that variant of chainsword isn't great in my opinion either.

[potent lichen]

What are the recommended blessings on the 13 chsword anyway?

[frail bolt]

usually ss and ramp from what i heard

for the horde clearing

should i just eat it for the blessings?

[quasi tulip]

late, but i'd still keep in case they ever update blessings again

[frail bolt]

should i eat mine for the rampage 4?

for keep it for now?

[forest scaffold]

You need Flak/Unarmored/Brutal Momentum/10% melee damage from the tree/>70% in all damage stats

Its a weird breakpoint, but flak is gonna be taken either way and we just shoot maniacs now because Fatshark is completely unsure of how to handle elites/specials.

Mutants aside, but they take 3x melee damage so they end up having insane BPs on everything anyway, regardless of perks.

[junior needle]

Pretty sure the 13g needs wrath to get rampage going

Shred only affects your special attacks on the chainswords, it's fine

[frail bolt]

wut u recommend i should swap out?

remove ss?

[junior needle]

Yeah sweep

If you want max horde clear you can exchange maniac for unarmored

[frail bolt]

kk

[junior needle]

Maniac for unarmored

I goofed that at first

[frail bolt]

so basically swap maniac to unarmored

and swap ss to wrath

[junior needle]

Mhm, flak will be wanted regardless

[frail bolt]

kk

[tall torrent]

Just watched a 78 minute “veteran skill tree meta breakdown”

[rigid pilot]

There's one?

[tall torrent]

Some guy made one on YT

[rigid pilot]

Who

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/FDFGaXQmBT0?si=54ABG313iMw0ioOL

He did bring up some pretty good points

But I think he got some info wrong

Like how he didn’t fully understand how the tag keystone works

[rigid pilot]

I watched abit and it seems logical so far

[tall torrent]

Yea he’s pretty on point for the most part

I don’t agree with everything he said

[gilded rock]

Guys I think VoC got shadow buffed

[rigid pilot]

For sure

[tall torrent]

Like, regarding demo team

Nobody in their right mind takes demo team without stockpile

And he didn’t go into double frag bleed stacks

[gilded rock]

Do you remember it spawning two vets when you use it

[rigid pilot]

Stockpile is grenade refill on ammo crate? I dont know these names

[tall torrent]

Nade regen every 60s

[rigid pilot]

I only take demo team if I can't spare points for stockpile

I think one weird build of mine was like that

[tall torrent]

Taking both basically means you can throw them out like dollar store candy

[rigid pilot]

Yea stockpile by itself is usually enough

[analog blaze]

Yes for the fast las.

[wanton dawn]

Am gonna watch the vid and complain about it

[rigid pilot]

Demo team is middle keystone (?) and I rarely go there

[south garnet]

is this week's shop rotation the laziest yet or only tied

[tall torrent]

He’s pretty on point for like 85% the time
The only things he didn’t get quite right (imo) are:

• taking both nade regen talents & double nade bleed stacks
• tag keystone (he didn’t know it refreshes to a minimum of 2 stacks when tagged enemies get killed)
• stamina regen delay reduction nodes (I personally find them very high value)

[tall torrent]

Demo team is same tier as iron will

Middle keystone is very heavily misunderstood

It’s not “clunky” or “save all the stacks for big damage”

[rigid pilot]

You just tag and get damage I guess

At most you save for boss

[tall torrent]

It keeps 2 stacks up on every enemy you tag in a horde

[atomic zephyr]

power sword + laspistol goes so hard

[tall torrent]

Keep tagging & killing

And you keep 2 stacks on targets

It’s why target down is strong because you get 10% stamina and 10% toughness for every tagged target killed, not 5%

[rigid pilot]

Be one of those obnoxious lmb taggers

[terse idol]

Okay hooow should I improve this

Also it's not the end of the world if finesse isn't 70 right?

[rigid pilot]

Replace deci with brumo I guess

[tall torrent]

Decimator to BM
Unyielding to unarmored

[terse idol]

Hopefully I can roll it out without BM, I gotta find it

[rigid pilot]

If no BM yet just keep it as is

[rigid pilot]

Any reason for unarmored, one shot groaners?

[tall torrent]

Scab bruiser 1 shot

[drifting oak]

unarmored is also scab bruiser heads

[rigid pilot]

I see

[gilded rock]

'ate scab bruisas

[drifting oak]

also helps with bodyshots on dregbruisers

which is not irrelevant

[terse idol]

helps with the cleave

IIRC

If you don't have it

You can't cleave more than 1 scab bruiser

[rigid pilot]

What they said

[wanton dawn]

Am still at start. At this point i disagree with "charismatic bad" (though i agree with the last talent in build approach) and skimming over out for blood value

[rigid pilot]

How about dreg bruisers, axe already one shots?

Oh you have flak alr nvm

[terse idol]

It's actually... very close

[wanton dawn]

But for now it seems more like opinion disagreement really

[tall torrent]

He did mention O4B being very good for melee vet but I do agree it’s usually lower priority than CK

[terse idol]

I can't one tap Dredge brusiers

On the head

[rigid pilot]

With deci and 10% melee talent maybe

[terse idol]

Yeeah

For sho

[rigid pilot]

15%* melee talents

[tall torrent]

CK is good on its own cuz you get so much toughness in return

O4B is sort of like a nice benefit on top of that

[wanton dawn]

O4b is real good with bayonet melee

Mostly cuz i get full value from the rest

[tall torrent]

Ik, can’t spare the points on my build though

He also positioned bottom right very highly

[wanton dawn]

High disagree on the 10% melee node

[forest scaffold]

It does not.

It has enough cleave to consistently proc rampage on everything but elites

[tall torrent]

Which is reasonable? But like
Outside of desperado and reciprocity
You literally just do not get as much damage for breakpoints as left+mid?

[terse idol]

what am I looking for, precision strikes ya think?

[tall torrent]

15% elite + 20% ogryn is so much more damage than prioritizing right tree weapon specialist

[wanton dawn]

Sorry am talking about video

[terse idol]

oh

[tall torrent]

He’s taking 5% melee + reciprocity + desperado to compensate

[forest scaffold]

This is why you use weapon specialist with weapons that don't need +15% elite or Ogryn

you can skip all the IAGs and ILGs

Brautos, Shotguns, Revolver, Plasma Gun

none of em really care about those talents

God I wish the Shredder Autopistol were good

I'd love to use it with WS but alas

bad weapon is bad

Graia Brauto is better in literally every way, and that's not really a good weapon in and of itself either.

[tall torrent]

Weapon specialist is nice and all
But outside of the guaranteed 1st crit (chain) it’s not as good as middle keystone, breakpoint wise

[forest scaffold]

I guess Pinning Fire+Inspiring Barrage would be neat on veteran

considering you have access to uh

[wanton dawn]

Sure but that'd be a point investment nonetheless without tinkerer anyway

[forest scaffold]

4/8/12/16/20/20/20/20/20/20 toughness in one magazine

and you can spend an SAP magazine in seconds

[wanton dawn]

Still watching

[forest scaffold]

Its not for guns

and that's why you think its bad

compared to the other two

Its to kill one thing with your gun to get 10% more attack speed on melee

[tall torrent]

I don’t find it bad, I find it a lot more niche

[forest scaffold]

and 20% toughness

[wanton dawn]

Anyway, 10% melee node can give bp to combat axe for instance on ranged build

[forest scaffold]

if you run that modifier node

[forest scaffold]

and power sword

lets you oneshot bruisers

otherwise you need perks

+10% melee damage lets power sword run carapace/unyielding/maniac instead of flak/unarmored

[wanton dawn]

So again, hard disagree on "massive overkill"

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, if you CAN take 10% melee damage, you should

because half the game is melee

[tall torrent]

That’s a node I want but always am short of points to get

[forest scaffold]

just don't take 10% rending

oh no, you can't shoot crushers

cool thing we have all these super OP melee weapons

[wanton dawn]

Get back in the fight being terrible is also arguable but okay

[forest scaffold]

get back in the fight is niche

It was good when fire insta broke toughness

its uh

become less purposeful with the fire change

[wanton dawn]

Oh sure, but again: arguable is not "bad"

And definitely not "never take"

[mossy heart]

Best class.

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, if you're running melee mostly get back in the fight is good because you're not gonna get any use out of 5% toughness regen when not around enemies

The only thing that really makes me sad though is that +30% weakspot damage isn't in the middle tree

It gives some interesting breakpoints to things like combat knife

for oneshotting bruisers, for example

[wanton dawn]

Kind of whatever is right

[forest scaffold]

Well, and I guess just all of vet's tree makes me sad.

Its needlessly complex and there's a bunch of weird nodes that don't really fit

and half of it is just blatantly overpowered

like rending strikes and onslaught

or voice of command's +50 toughness node

[tall torrent]

He actually specifically mentioned rending strikes & onslaught being not that great

[wanton dawn]

Maaannn.... at least show tinkerer effect on frags...

[tall torrent]

He doesn’t know lol

[forest scaffold]

rending strikes is BPs on literally every single gun on veteran

and onslaught is good on stuff like brautos/iags

[tall torrent]

He didn’t even acknowledge the double nade strat

[tall torrent]

No not really?

[forest scaffold]

i mean okay

[wanton dawn]

Always SHOW stuff

[forest scaffold]

not plasma gun or revolver

but everything else saves ammo thanks to rending strikes

[winter widget]

Thoughts on this?

[tall torrent]

It doesn’t give meaningful breakpoints for HB for example

Headhunter autoguns, kinda? If you plan on mag dumping crushers?

[wanton dawn]

"Survivalist completely overshadow ever..."

[forest scaffold]

all of vet's auras are really stupid

infinite ammo

5% more damage

5% more move speed

its all dumb and slapped together

[wanton dawn]

In any case, the simple fact that twins exist make that statement false

[forest scaffold]

zealot: gives 15% TDR to everyone

Ogryn: 10% more heavy attack damage, or 20% more damage against suppressed enemies

veteran:

5% move speed

[tall torrent]

I mean, you don’t really bring a “normal” build for twins

[strange sparrow]

This

[forest scaffold]

Twins isn't a conversation point for builds

at all

its a self-contained challenge

[forest scaffold]

bad perks, bad shredder stat

granted, you can just skip the chainsaw on chainsword

there's almost no reason to ever use that function

[winter widget]

So probably best not to get it. Thanks for the tip!

[strange sparrow]

Twins fight are just different

[forest scaffold]

I'd get it for rampage

if you don't have rampage tier 4

[wanton dawn]

It is though, cuz it highlight that survivalist is not an auto-include and there is, in fact, several way to think about it that makes it unoptimal

[lofty lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-brick-sponge-bob-square-pants-like-a-bag-of-bricks-like-a-ton-of-bricks-gif-4475886

[strange sparrow]

Also Other 2 aura is just super under power

Undeniable when compared to other class

Psyker get Crit chances or Ability CD

Zealot get TDR half the time (because other 2 aura also suck)

Loner and purifier something (reduce corruption)

[tall torrent]

Beacon of purity

Is alright

But TDR is usually better

[winter widget]

I take it you're said no good?

[lofty lintel]

yeah its a nono

[strange sparrow]

It doesn’t reduce corruption if you already go pass wounds

[forest scaffold]

loner has weird interactions with enemy aggro

[strange sparrow]

So it’s a big no for me except twins fight

[lofty lintel]

but if you have leftover tokens and want the t4 rampage go for it

[forest scaffold]

Specials target the person with the least coherency

give or take

So like

[lofty lintel]

oh its t3

[forest scaffold]

it makes the game "easier" in a roundabout way

[lofty lintel]

i wouldnt get it

[strange sparrow]

Wait then what does Lethal does, since there’s one in Veteran skill tree

-90% lethal something after getting out of invisibility

[winter widget]

Understood. Is chainaxe any good?

[lofty lintel]

yes

very fun

a personal favorite

[winter widget]

Any recommendations for what to look for when getting one?

[lofty slate]

I like crowd control shovel

[lofty lintel]

yeah, look for a mk4 chaxe with flak/maniac and thunderous headtaker for blessings

[tall torrent]

It makes enemies not notice u so u can sneak past them

But it doesn’t help against enemies you’re already hitting

[lofty slate]

But I try to run confident strike on every melee weapon I can to make melee a little more forgiving friend

[winter widget]

Start a mission. Get to first encounter. 2 skullmashers at start

[wanton dawn]

Am not comment on the video grenade hot takes

He clearly doesnt know

[lofty slate]

That one about twinned grenades being dooky?

[wanton dawn]

Nah, the rant around it

[lofty slate]

Yeah, no it would be nice if it was a teeny bit more reliable, but it's not useless

[wanton dawn]

Twinned is bad

If it was guaranteed it'd be op on frags

[tall torrent]

He doesn’t know how frag bleed stacks work, or how the middle keystone works

[lofty slate]

If they kept that percentage but stacked it until you get the twinned grenade, it wouldn't be as niche and it wouldn't be super OP

[wanton dawn]

Pushing field improv for the corruption heal ? Well, sure, why not

[lofty slate]

If it was guaranteed I'd take it on every build

[serene sage]

field improv should heal wound

thanks for coming to my TED talk

[wanton dawn]

Field improv problem is value distribution over a run

It is why it is op on twins and meh besides

[lofty slate]

I got a question

[wanton dawn]

You get full value guaranteed on twins. Nade, corruption, thoughness

[lofty slate]

If I have field improve and I put down the medipack does it corruption heal anyone else?

[tall torrent]

Would still be pretty weak imo

[wanton dawn]

Yes

[tall torrent]

Everybody in coherency I believe

[lofty slate]

That's what I thought

[lofty slate]

What if it stacked based on how many enemies were hit?

[elder dawn]

what perk do i swap for on this bad boy

[tall torrent]

A little too complicated for fatshark coding

[lofty slate]

GYAT DAYUM

[lofty slate]

Okay, based on how many enemies are bleeding

[elder dawn]

crit chance?

idk

[tall torrent]

Still a bit too complicated for fatshark coding

It needs to be significantly more consistent

[wanton dawn]

I am gonna say it once: you dont spend nade to get demo stockpile value. You get demo stockpile to improve nade regen. Though i guess it is a way to tell ppl to use nade ?

[lofty slate]

No it's not, they already track that for that Ogryn talent

[wanton dawn]

In any case, demo stockpile doesnt make your nade into hot potato

[lofty slate]

Plus if it's based on bleeds, you can totally stockpile stacks before you toss grenade

[lofty lintel]

flak

[wanton dawn]

Sure but man doesnt know

[lofty slate]

Nope, I sure don't

Enlighten me

[elder dawn]

isnt flak overkill on this

[wanton dawn]

Not you, am commenting video

[lofty lintel]

no

[elder dawn]

[wanton dawn]

For the past 30 min

[lofty lintel]

go look for breakpoints in the psykhanium

[tall torrent]

Could be of some value but I’d rather it just be much more consistent

Sometimes u drop nades for big hordes of enemies

Sometimes u drop nades just to stagger bulwarks & crushers

And you’re not getting the same enemies hit by bleed in these scenarios

[lofty slate]

Doesn't one of the shotgun specials create bleed?

[wanton dawn]

Really good point on "leave no one behind"

[junior needle]

flechette

[tall torrent]

No, that requires flechette blessing

[lofty slate]

Ah, I got cornfused

[junior needle]

Kant applies burn

With the special

[elder dawn]

flak weakspot is already 1125 and crit is 1334, crit weak spot is 1755

idk if it needs flak

[lofty lintel]

Dmg doesnt matter

What hp do you leave them at

[tall torrent]

Grenadier is the better route between the two imo

[wanton dawn]

Man the diss over voc on the exec stance rant

[lofty lintel]

Mess around and find out thats how i choose my perks most of the time im leaving important elites at 1 hp so i take 25%dmg for that type of armor to hit the breakpoint

[wanton dawn]

He gets a bit too emotional sometimes

I get that though. I do that too

Again, the diss on infiltrate

[lofty slate]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-neutron-jimbo-hugh-neutron-jimmy-neutron-dad-mistakes-gif-27324077

[tall torrent]

Infiltrate needs some modifiers just baked into the ability itself

It’s like the most taxing ability of the tree

[lofty lintel]

I agree

[lofty slate]

I wouldn't mind some health getting stuck into that tree

[strange sparrow]

Exec Stances is just meh except you’re into DPS farming

[lofty lintel]

And nerf the amount of time the overtoughness from voc lasts

[wanton dawn]

Oh sure, but i dont expect rant on my tree analysis

[strange sparrow]

Infiltrate required too much Talent point

[wanton dawn]

Also infiltrate has use case. Ask azreal about it

[lofty slate]

I have a build for it, but you breathe on my dude and he's down

[junior needle]

Or you're using a gun that sucks and needs extra damage just to function

[strange sparrow]

I mean going invisible always have use case

[wanton dawn]

I dont watch 1 hours video to learn nothing

[strange sparrow]

This hurt me

[junior needle]

Laughs in recon lasgun

[lofty slate]

Infiltrate is pretty damn good if I have a taunt Ogryn on my team though

[wanton dawn]

Also arguing that infiltrate is bad vs exec stance is good is eh

[tall torrent]

MG12 be like

[wanton dawn]

Arguable

[strange sparrow]

Infiltrate is bad because it’s hard to get to and waste so much talent point

VOC is just 2 points and sit in the middle

[junior needle]

Infiltrate and exe could use some point squashing

[lofty slate]

Some of those stat boosts could definitely be combined

[junior needle]

As exe needs some extra zazz to compare to voc

Right now it's kinda uh

[strange sparrow]

Exec need to have build in refresher

You need to spent 3 point to make exec kinda sustainable

[wanton dawn]

Btw, rez shout issue is the cd increase. Range decrease is whatever

[strange sparrow]

No one take rez shout

[junior needle]

Hot idea: The wallhacks are built into it baseline, it no longer drops when you go to melee, and other people killing marked targets refreshes it for you

Wallhacks for your team

that is

[strange sparrow]

The CD increment just too much

And so situational

[wanton dawn]

Without cd increase it d be okayish

[winter widget]

This a good one to start with?

[lofty lintel]

No

[strange sparrow]

I mean VOC is too spamming still imo

[lofty lintel]

Shredder is painfully low

[strange sparrow]

Just super strong

[junior needle]

I've seen a few people take rez shout in auric, and without fail they never use their shout for anything else but rezzing

[strange sparrow]

Which is like 3% of the game

[junior needle]

See them use it maybe 3 times a game

[strange sparrow]

[lofty lintel]

Dmg penetration and shredder gotta be high always

[wanton dawn]

In any case, not worth a talent point right now

[tall torrent]

Would actually be pretty fun that way
But then again it would probably be pretty broken with a permanent +25% ranged dmg uptime

[junior needle]

As opposed to permanent overtoughness

For your whole team

[wanton dawn]

Also man still ranting

[winter widget]

Got it

[lofty lintel]

[strange sparrow]

Tried to run Exec Stance HellBore Mk2 on Auric 5

Half the time I’m just using it as melee option

[tiny summit]

ok. Im a helbore mk2 enjoyer now. Not like this is really impressive but I enjoyed my mission with this 1 I got from a mission reward.

[wanton dawn]

Went from talent analysis to discord argument at the ult part

[tiny summit]

and a basic shovel enjoyer

oh no the krieg propaganda

[strange sparrow]

Mk2 is great but I hate how bad it does against trash

And really not that agile imo compared to other weapon

[tiny summit]

bad against trash what?

[strange sparrow]

Poxwalker/hordes

[tiny summit]

free MF stacks for me

and bayonet stab

[strange sparrow]

Like uncharged shot doesn’t kill one to the body with mk2

[tall torrent]

Keep going

[strange sparrow]

It’s like 306 something damage

[wanton dawn]

It is kinda tiring me up at the moment

[strange sparrow]

While pox is 350

[tiny summit]

eh, its charges fast enough and the only time I will tap fire are enemies who live the charge shot as a quick follow up of hound waves

[strange sparrow]

Which is annoying to use with a single shot rifle

[elder dawn]

looksl ike +10% crit dmg works pretty well to one shot anything thats not an ogryn

[lofty lintel]

Crit dmg is a bad perk

[strange sparrow]

I charge for anything that is “elite or special” but normal trash mobs

[tiny summit]

I put infernus on out of curiousity and I think its not worth

[tall torrent]

He got like ~80% of the stuff right imo

[strange sparrow]

I just uncharge shoot them

[strange sparrow]

Infernus isn’t great too I tried

Falter doesn’t matter cuz charged headshot almost always one shot stuff

[tiny summit]

onslaught and surgical looks weird on paper. Already charges really fast and with that charge you're only getting minimum crit chance

[tall torrent]

Just bayonet them

[stuck garden]

this is more of what you want for mk2

one shot headshot for scab and dreg gunners

[tall torrent]

What you could try is onslaught + no respite

I’ve yet to get no respite 4

[stuck garden]

the perks and onslaught are the most important

[tiny summit]

I dont really see the need for onslaught with how fast it already charges

[lofty lintel]

Ondlaught and surgical are the go tos for mk1 and 3

[tall torrent]

NR4 could get funny with bayonet

[lofty lintel]

Not mk2

Shoots fast as fuck

[stuck garden]

onslaught reallllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy makes a difference

[tall torrent]

Still make a sizeable dps difference

[lofty lintel]

I mean onslaught is great on every helbore

[strange sparrow]

Install full auto mod

Put it on hellbore mk2 onslaught

[tiny summit]

helbores are full auto actually, they just have to time out their charge

[stuck garden]

.33 seconds down to .132s

[lofty lintel]

Best blessing for all 3 but especially mk1 and 3

[stuck garden]

it makes a big difference

[wanton dawn]

I expect marksman focus shilling rn

[strange sparrow]

Semi auto

[wanton dawn]

Dont spoil

[strange sparrow]

But it’s funny

Trust me, install the mods and see how fast you could fire with hellbore

[tall torrent]

I was about to

[tiny summit]

I will fully shill for MF and thats what I was using that mission

[wanton dawn]

Deadshot underrated ?

[strange sparrow]

MF is alright as long you hit head

[tiny summit]

fuck deadshot I want my stamina

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus is not bad
When it’s not the only thing keeping your breakpoints alive

[wanton dawn]

Born leader RECOMMENDED

[strange sparrow]

S true

[wanton dawn]

ABORT SHIP

[tall torrent]

Still pretty divisive and not a default pick

[tiny summit]

I use born leader to feel like Im helping

[tall torrent]

He mentioned Born Leader only if you go CK+ET

But otherwise FTE

[wanton dawn]

STILL CRAP

[tall torrent]

I’m not gonna blame that on someone who doesn’t know double nade bleed stacks or middle keystone auto refresh

[tiny summit]

also the other 2 are kinda meh to me. So born leader is good to me

10% dmg for 5 secs or increased suppression? Im here to click heads and expect gratitude when I restore 3 toughness to my teammates

[strange sparrow]

Who the fuck took born leader

Just take for the emperor

[tiny summit]

also this thing is awesome. I got a PS6 with sunder and PC4 but this thing just does work with no setup. Though PS do be ballin' against crushers

[tiny summit]

no

[wanton dawn]

Oh, i did not expect melee tree shilling

(Am commenting video stop feeling targeted)

[strange sparrow]

You already suffer from getting back toughness as Veteran except you're into that VoC

[tiny summit]

10% dmg when I can restore 3 toughness to my team off my expert gamer aim with every head destroyed? I think not

[strange sparrow]

Damn I never knew we have god gamer amongus

[junior needle]

Even just one stack is a consistent 10% crit, that's considerably better than most blessings considering shocktrooper is in the mix.

[tiny summit]

the fuck are you talking about? Im invincible against gunners with how much toughness I regen

[wanton dawn]

Weapon specs shilling

[tiny summit]

least played keystone but not having to reload revolver is fun

[tall torrent]

I am not sure if he knows it only works for first shot/chain

[strange sparrow]

Yes if you hit all the headshot and you know get that much gunner to kill

[tiny summit]

yea its easy peezy counter firing gunners

[strange sparrow]

It's not easy peasy trying to fight for your life

because your teammate can't melee

[tiny summit]

idk pretty easy

[wanton dawn]

My problem with that talent analysis is a huge, huge lack of humility in the analysis and a general feeling of close-mindness. Too much ranting

Also miss critical info

Making lack of humility a problem

[tall torrent]

I think he’s just talking of what he thinks he understands

But hasn’t actually went and tested every nitty gritty

[tiny summit]

ty fatshark for 10% rending at 10+ MF stacks when 10% rending at all times is accessible from the middle tree

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but then it is every discord argument

[tiny summit]

or 1% reload per MF stack

[tall torrent]

Double nade bleed stacks, and tag keystone auto refresh being the 2 main things he completely missed

[wanton dawn]

Hell, i dont want to make talent analysis cuz iam clueless. And am level 1k

[tiny summit]

Reject analysis. Only vibes

[wanton dawn]

Man testing rending with a weapon good against carapace smh

[strange sparrow]

Im into Vibe tbh

[tiny summit]

Dmg? Yea good.

Except For The Emperor. My team needs to thank me for that 3 toughness I restored to them

[wanton dawn]

Imagine rending at 15%. Patch 13 amiright ?

MISSINFORMATION ON FOCUS TARGET

[strange sparrow]

Me on my way to restore 3 toughness that a zealot are desperate needing

[tall torrent]

Patch13 vraks3 was nuts

[wanton dawn]

Humility BOY

[tall torrent]

He doesn’t know abt the 2 stack refresh

Just ignore his take on that keystone

[tiny summit]

That was the class update right? Pour one out for recons.

[tall torrent]

I’ve actually found myself not needing duck & dive much?

It’s not a must take all the time

[wanton dawn]

I would if dude stopped ranting

[strange sparrow]

Never took Duck & Dive except using deadshot

Where yall even arguing on about keystone

[tall torrent]

There’s a guy who made a 78 min “veteran skill tree meta breakdown”

On YouTube

[wanton dawn]

I am having... reserve about it

[strange sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDFGaXQmBT0 this guy?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[strange sparrow]

Nah Im only watching Ryken

Larpy and enjoyable content

[junior needle]

Yep.

[tall torrent]

I think he’s mostly on point with veteran (except the few points where he just didn’t know, and some stuff that were “in a vacuum”)

He also made a Psyker one which seemed a lot more practical

[tiny summit]

I've listened full multiple hour patch note vids for dota2. I still barely watch any meta guides for PvE games.

[wanton dawn]

Focus target analysis was fine until "not impactful" ruined it

[tiny summit]

Whut?

[inland orchid]

Glances at my stamina getting skyrocketed from me glancing at 2 specials while they died (I was lucky during a spray)

[tiny summit]

A free mechanic that gives dmg amp, toughness, stamina and a consistent top stack dmg bonus to the team as long as something tagged dies? Thats "not impactful?"

[wanton dawn]

Hey, he said it

[tall torrent]

He didn’t even know it refreshed to 2 stacks when tagged target is killed (if stacks built up is under 2)

So the ideal way to use it is to tag & kill very quickly, on repeat

Only really save stacks for boss

[tiny summit]

Like yea it isn't like super huge bonuses at all times but it's constant stuff for the entire team that will at minimum keep a 12% dmg bonus to your team topped off

[tall torrent]

But even if you’re diverting targets in a boss fight

You’re still getting minimum +8% dmg on boss

[wanton dawn]

12% bonus teamwide is huge though

[tall torrent]

Redirect fire is also good

[tiny summit]

That's why For The Emperor stinky

[bitter turtle]

Born leader stinkier

[tall torrent]

The only one I don’t take is 8 stack modifier

[inland orchid]

Call me a stinky vet then cuz I run for the emperor

[tiny summit]

Nah my team gotta thank me for that 3 toughness

[tall torrent]

Because it doesn’t change how much it refreshes to

If the 8 stack modifier changed the minimum refresh to 3 stacks I’d take it

[wanton dawn]

My conclusion is... if you're going to make a tree breakdown, have a script

[tall torrent]

I’ve been playing with literally zero points spent in bottom right tree

And it’s phenomenal

[tiny summit]

"Tree impressions", "tree vibes", "tree rambling"

[wanton dawn]

Bottom right is good, but it the most conditional (to melee) and hardest to keep uptime

[bitter turtle]

Trees are for druids

[tiny summit]

I would use weapon specialist more if I didn't already like using helbore so much. Or if I had more good shotgun blessings

[wanton dawn]

Weapon specialist is really annoying to keep up in practice imo

[tiny summit]

I played stealth vet with knife, revolver, and weapon specialist once. It was fun not having to manually reload

[tall torrent]

My issue with bottom right is that I’m spending points on stuff that could be spent to get better breakpoints otherwise

I am literally losing damage by picking right side, outside of reciprocity + desperado for high crit chance

[tiny summit]

Optimal weapon specialist gaming

[wanton dawn]

My issue is that skipping the 10% melee node is VERY arguable

Especially for a bottom right focus

[tall torrent]

I also tested agile engagement for HB

While funny, it kind of didn’t matter much for breakpoints

[wanton dawn]

Also consider that the 5% dmg aura skip means you lose potential on 15.5% melee dmg

15.5% is a LOT

[tall torrent]

I think the only breakpoints u get with AE on a perfectly optimized HB2 are:

1. More consistent reaper 2 tap
2. Flamer 1 headshot without crit at a specific distance

[wanton dawn]

Agile is not great in practice

It is high maintenance

[tall torrent]

For HB1 I think it makes the flamer 1 tap a lot more consistent

But HB2 it really didn’t make a big difference

[wanton dawn]

It is usable on bayo build though

Cuz you skip ranged dmg

And bayo applies it to ranged

[tiny summit]

I have like 1 build w/o survivalist and I only really run that when there's another vet with survivalist

[wanton dawn]

My bayo build skip surv

[tall torrent]

Yea I tested that
HB2’s gun part didn’t benefit from AE dmg buff breakpoint-wise

[wanton dawn]

Tested on body as well ?

I always test on body. More than head

[tall torrent]

I think it gives u Dreg shooter body 1 tap charged shot

But that’s like it lol

Without, it’s like 492 dmg

I have +25% unarmored

[wanton dawn]

I have unyielding maniac on mine

Reach os on flamer body

[tall torrent]

Like, this is about as optimized as you can get on HB2

[wanton dawn]

Os potential on all specialist (with bayo)

[tall torrent]

If I’m still missing breakpoints on this thing that’s a gun problem, not a roll problem

[wanton dawn]

I use mk1 though

[tall torrent]

Mk1 benefits from AE more

U get flamer 1 tap headshot with AE

Cuz it’s like 1200 dmg headshot

[wanton dawn]

Tbf i dont care at all about the laser part

[tall torrent]

Mk2 flamer headshot is like 900~1000 at close range

The bayonet portion

Literally does not benefit from AE

From my tests

[tiny summit]

Reeee not 80 dmg

[wanton dawn]

I want that #veteran-class message

[tall torrent]

The only thing you can use to squeeze more damage on the bayonet I think is no respite

Bayonet can’t one tap mutants now, unless crit

[wanton dawn]

It can

I just did

[tall torrent]

What’s ur build

Don’t tell me u took every single melee related dmg node

[wanton dawn]

Yes

[tall torrent]

[wanton dawn]

Lemme check

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ab4625e-17ea-4457-a4bb-b7d6ad8d3e18/melee-bayonet-veteran-1220 with a few floating point

[tiny summit]

Bayonet best melee

[tall torrent]

I would drop 8 stack modifier on keystone for a stamina regen delay reduction node

[wanton dawn]

I was thinking about elite dmg but it is hard to reach

[wanton dawn]

I dont use that much stam

Only for sprint

[tall torrent]

It’s just that 8 stack is the lowest value modifier out of the three

[wanton dawn]

If anything bayo is very low stam consumption

Lower than standard melee

Cuz no block/push

[tall torrent]

I wish they change it to “increase minimum refresh to 3 stacks” instead

Now that’s instantly best modifier out of the three

[wanton dawn]

8 stacks is also 4.5% dmg

My main regret is the 15% on elite node

It is really painful to take the 25% ammo reservr

[strange sparrow]

Bayonet most abusable melee

[wanton dawn]

It is useless on this build

[wanton dawn]

Definitely. I got called a cheater once cuz of it