veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

but like

why woul dyou use a gun

that just does slightly worse at almost everything

[hearty panther]

But it remains true that whatever bonuses you can boost for a gun, any other gun tends to do better.

[bitter turtle]

and also does 1/3rd of dps at a very common armor type too

[serene sage]

nO ReCOil

[hearty panther]

Currently you can still kill a Reaper in a second with Marksmans Focus and other shenanigans.

[frank ether]

recon is a boring ass gun

[serene sage]

^

[frank ether]

it needed a rework rather than a flat nerf

[serene sage]

recon is a boring-ass gun
recon is a boring ass-gun

[frank ether]

zero recoil w+m1 is mindnumbingly boring

[slow spade]

If they gave recon cleave, it'd be interesting

[hearty panther]

It is not. Maniac damage on Recon is close to 50%

[rough igloo]

I just don't enjoy using the recon

Simple as

[junior needle]

I post these videos with the same testing method for comparison, I have other ones for flak/unyielding performance and some for headshot performance.

It's to show base performance irrespective of actual player skill. Worth noting that recons have a low headshot modifier and IAG's have a high headshot modifier, so the dps difference is even bigger with headshots in the mix.

[hearty panther]

The Recon damage table is full of fucked up shit

[slow spade]

Really? Must be mixing it up with shredder pistol

[hearty panther]

Yeah Shredder is 170%

[bitter turtle]

recon manic damage was 50

i think it buffed to 60 :^)

[hearty panther]

Shredder is basically tailor made for maniac damage

[bitter turtle]

when they gutted the rest of the dmg values

still garbage though

[slow spade]

I was doing some dps checks on the shredder and recon and now I can't remember numbers

[candid bridge]

How are recons boring but IAGs aren’t? One shoots lasers other shoots bullets lol

[slow spade]

Oh right it was buffed to 150% from 100%

[serene sage]

Ballistic >> Energy weapons

shrimple as

[bitter turtle]

i liked recon

[hearty panther]

Nah its always been that strong against maniacs

[bitter turtle]

but its just shit now

[hearty panther]

No buff required

Check stopping power on shredder

Close maniac is over 150%

[slow spade]

Yeah but can you do this?

Wtf discord

[tiny summit]

IAGs definitely win the sound department. Recon is just funny hose

[bitter turtle]

i feel extra salty b/c some playtesters were all "no you're overreacting!!!!"

[slow spade]

What did you do to the audio

[serene sage]

continues to buff the Revolver

[slow spade]

Na just saying it used to be 100% but then they buffed it

[finite imp]

B)

[bitter turtle]

well you know

revolvers are simply the best after all

[slow spade]

The Emperor is a cowboy in lore

[serene sage]

need more buffs

[bitter turtle]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Handgun" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Revolvers deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Colt Python in America for 20,000 dollars (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my revolver.
American gunsmiths spend years working on a single revolver and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest barrels known to mankind.
Revolvers are thrice as sharp as European handguns and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything an ordinary handgun can shoot through, a revolver can shoot through better. I'm pretty sure a revolver could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering America? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Cowboys and their revolvers of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the revolvers first because their killing power was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? Revolvers are simply the best gun that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Revolvers:
(One-Handed Exotic Weapon) 2d12 Damage 19-20 x4 Crit +2 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork
(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon) 3d10 Damage 17-20 x4 Crit +5 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork
Now that seems a lot more representative of the shooting power of Revolver in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = Revolver need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

[slow spade]

Revolvers will always be the best

[hearty panther]

Revolvers need a nerf. Or to be unbuffed.

[delicate estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/impress-based-american-psycho-very-based-impressive-very-based-gif-21665669

[bitter turtle]

i still need to finish my katana powersword + revolver loadout

[serene sage]

wake up babe, new copy paste just dropped

[hearty panther]

The last two patches just fucking sent it lol

[slow spade]

+5 to hit on d20 system bruh

[finite imp]

no

[junior needle]

I remember that, I think one of the mods said something to that effect as well. According to crab the recons were supposed to get larger, positive changes in addition to the nerfs but those didn't come through for some reason.

[hearty panther]

Absolutely yes.

[bitter turtle]

then ill run infiltrate on that build

[finite imp]

no

[bitter turtle]

so i can teleport behind the enemy

[hearty panther]

They were already very strong.

[finite imp]

yes

[serene sage]

LOL - say the playtesters - LMAO

[hearty panther]

And then they gave them 100 more baseline damage and an extra 50% headshot

[finite imp]

yes

[hearty panther]

Playtesters were also mystified

[bitter turtle]

yes that mod is the exact person im talking about lol

[finite imp]

B)

[slow spade]

We need a belt-fed revolver

[tiny summit]

Carnival Part 2 copium

[slow spade]

I'm tired of reloading

[hearty panther]

It was not an asked for change.

[finite imp]

i just want more revolvers period

gimmie a quick fire that does less damaghe

[frank ether]

maybe still a work in progress

[hearty panther]

Yeah thats the thing tho

[finite imp]

and a magnum that does more

[slow spade]

23mm revolver just like DRG

[hearty panther]

How can any other revolver model compete and find a place

[frank ether]

recons just need a rework and vet needs a proper lmg type of gun

[hearty panther]

Against current revolver

[finite imp]

just explained

[thorny isle]

Hell yeah

[tiny summit]

Was playing hunt showdown for just that

[finite imp]

like what hellbore does

[slow spade]

2 revolvers

[finite imp]

dual wqield

[junior needle]

[slow spade]

Also give one of the revolvers a bayonet

[hearty panther]

This is the LIGHT Revolver

[ebon umbra]

carnival 2: whoops, all diamantine

[finite imp]

sick that means 2 more heavy variants

[slow spade]

Heavy revolver -> light revolver with a duct-taped flamer

[frank ether]

they always say that

[ebon umbra]

i have more plasteel than diamantine nowntho???

[tiny summit]

???

[serene sage]

okay chat, how many Power Cycler 4 do you have?

[finite imp]

idk how thats possible

but neat

[serene sage]

I have 4 at the moment

[finite imp]

2?

[pastel geode]

2

[serene sage]

idk what to do with them

[finite imp]

i think

[ebon umbra]

carnival map drops so much plasteel i have more plasteel than diamantine

[celest vine]

0

[serene sage]

imagine being poor

[celest vine]

I use chainswords

[ebon umbra]

i have one ps3 and 1 ps6

[serene sage]

I have like 6 380 weapons, only 1 of them is any good

truly outrageous

[celest vine]

No wait I do have 1

[south vessel]

is this salvageable? Perfect base stats, poop blessings (is decapitator any good on rashad?)

[tiny summit]

Still haven't gotten a power sword with the extra energized hits

[plucky linden]

all power swords share their blessings, correct?
Thinking of buying this one just for the +1 blessing

[junior needle]

And here we have another exciting comparison, fresh from the tap.

[hearty panther]

Columnus is gonna eat its nerf soon.

[junior needle]

Mutie loves to look different directions so it's hard to get 100% headshot uptime with a ttk that low

[hearty panther]

Well, crit chains specifically

Either way enjoy it while you can

[junior needle]

I don't like the IAG's, which is a shame

They're nutty

[gusty sonnet]

Excuse me, it's my fault, I got 2 PC4 last week

[hearty panther]

It definitely is, it's the same as it was with Recon before.

[serene sage]

I got 4 PC4

[hearty panther]

True Aim = perma crit uptime

[serene sage]

sorry folks, limited supply

[hearty panther]

Cause crit chains are silly

[serene sage]

gotta be faster

[terse idol]

I'm calling it, not sure how ps6 gonna get nerfed but it's gonna nerfed

[gusty sonnet]

For sure, it's just silly atm

I'm just glad I got to experience ps6

[junior needle]

agri IAG did pretty good

[hearty panther]

I still prefer laspistol for my DD shenanigans

[serene sage]

How do you build gun Psyker?

[pastel geode]

By making the csword twice as strong

[serene sage]

Like what are the must takes?

[pastel geode]

Perish

[serene sage]

Okay relax I'm just asking a question

[hearty panther]

https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanProudPartridgeThisIsSparta-CSK-_fd4soOqZy6X

[south vessel]

huh, not even the flak helmet chaps?

[hearty panther]

oh mobile links suck

[bitter turtle]

rate my krieg ninjamurai build pls

https://i.gyazo.com/eaca359b53988beb655b22be13b7c723.jpg

im going to throw smoke grenades and disappear into the shadows

[serene sage]

Wtf

[topaz lance]

I need this build please!

[pastel geode]

I’m half joking lol, though I had far too many runs ruined by recon las psykers on damnation pre-class rework

[karmic musk]

Watch Fatshark nerf BOTH pswords and dump back into pre-buff category

[sharp ember]

alright guardsmen i'm back from working on the writeup, here's what I have so far, please let me know what you think of the formatting and if I should continue ((INCOMING TEXTDUMP))

__# Veteran's Ranged Weapon Primer 🔫 __

## Infantry Lasguns
`- Semi-automatic, deals more damage at longer distances

• Flashlight
• Useful Perks: Flak, Maniac, Unyielding
• Useful Blessings: Headhunter, Deadly Accurate, Ghost`

• Kantrael MGXII
• Highest Damage, Slow Firerate

• Kantrael MGIa
• Medium Damage, Medium Firerate

• Kantrael MG4a
• Lowest Damage, Fast Firerate

## Helbore Lasguns
`- Charge-shot, deals more damage at longer distances

• Charged shots effective against Carapace armor
• Bayonets`

• Lucius MK III
• Highest Damage, Slow charge rate
• Slow axe-swing bayonet

• Lucius MK II
• Lowest Damage, Fast charge rate
• Fast stabbing bayonet

• Lucius MK I
• Medium Damage, Medium charge rate
• Fast stabbing bayonet

((END TEXTDUMP))
something like that

[pastel geode]

Missed helbore being mandatory for krieg larping

[junior needle]

Very basic, is this for new players or are you intending for detailed weapon writeups like the ogrynomicon?

[bitter turtle]

how can i teleport behind enemies and nothin personnel them with a helbore

too slow

[sharp ember]

i am not making ogrynomicon (veteranomicon?) 2.0, i just want something up-to-date to stuff into our Pins

so basically for brand new players who came in here for basic info

[junior needle]

Infantrymans primer

[bitter turtle]

i think its worth listing blessing/perk

at least viable ones

that's like the #1 thing ppl ask when it comes to weapons they dont know about

[south vessel]

Sweet, then thanks and praise Melk – I'll buy it

[sharp ember]

understandable, i'd probably just blanket-name the better perks/blessings for each group

[south vessel]

I do already have at least 2 perfect Antax's I'll be retiring, so my veteran hording of perfect axes continues :(

[pastel geode]

The Imperial Infantryman’s Handbook

[sharp ember]

I may lack some foresight on blessing choices for guns I don't really use like laspistol though

[tall torrent]

DRG’s revolver is 20mm

[south vessel]

Oops, I already had a perfect Rashad. I guess I have 4 now

[sharp ember]

yeah I'll just bulk-list the good perks and blessings

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[sharp ember]

and not a particular combination if there's multiple choices

[bitter turtle]

doesnt have to be too deep

and this is a wip so you can just ask someone or whatever for the guns you dont know later

[sharp ember]

[pastel geode]

Two years later guardsman’s guide becomes the de facto vet guide

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa IAG cares more about efficient priority targets than mag dumping at whatever u can shoot at, that’s been my experience

[south spindle]

Lmao, a 20mm Revolver would be lunacy

Break your wrists an your face from the recoil

[zinc osprey]

Do any of yall use deadeye with the Helbore III?

[tall torrent]

Which is why DRG revolver has insane spread expansion after every shot

[slow spade]

Got the Elephant round OC

[pastel geode]

Dwarfs built different

[south spindle]

Yeah that makes a bit of sense, other than the whole 20mm Revolver bit

[pastel geode]

They got stronk bones

[tall torrent]

Volatile bullets superior unfortunately

[slow spade]

We need a bigger revolver is all I'm hearing

[junior needle]

Just a showcase of dps to show it's not only the columnus that's pulling way better numbers than the recons.

[topaz lance]

I think the current revolver is a way of saying "yes we know you don't really have a ballistic sniper rifle in game, so here's this". Which is fine by me.

[slow spade]

Neurutoxin payload so I can shitpost while playing

[bitter turtle]

revolver this size when

[tall torrent]

We need vindicare’s exitus rifle but chambered with a revolving cylinder

Everybody would be happy

[slow spade]

As the Omnissiah willed

[south spindle]

Pretty sure the one with have is already a .50cal

[slow spade]

Bolter -> megabolter when?

[south spindle]

Go much bigger than that an yeah.. you're getting into boltgun territory

[pastel geode]

Aren’t those specifically hand crafted for each assassin?

[slow spade]

Imagine having a non-1 cal revolver

[tropic marsh]

Guys, if I give the blessing to the Mechanicus, where can I attach it to another weapon?

[slow spade]

Couldn't be me

[topaz lance]

yes, account wide

[slow spade]

The Omnissiah demands a bigger revolver

[south vessel]

Needle weapons when

Give me a needle cannon pls

[forest blaze]

Bolt pistol. Plasma pistol. Dual wielding.

[tropic marsh]

Got it, in which section can I see them? I don’t see the blessings that I removed

[slow spade]

Need Volkite Incinerator

[topaz lance]

This would be an interesting one. Hard to implement I would guess.

[pastel geode]

I’d honestly settle for just a vet grenade launcher at this point

[topaz lance]

I simply go to "rebless" a weapon of the type and look at what I have unlocked.

[slow spade]

The good old days of grenade launcher spam from DoW1

We need to go full circle again

[tall torrent]

From Twitter: @candid quivercom

[slow spade]

Lol

Poor Wolfer

[topaz lance]

Trollhammer Torpedo exists, as well as the not implemented outrider one. So why not?

[south spindle]

Is this AC6 now?

[tall torrent]

If u told me 4 dudes went into a heavily fortified stronghold held by elite traitor imperial guardsmen and came out on top, I’d think those 4 are imperial assassins too

[pastel geode]

Exactly

[slow spade]

Thunderbolt when?

[pastel geode]

Lol

https://tenor.com/view/forward-sabaki-imperial-guard-40k-warhammer40k-advance-gif-25145440

[slow spade]

Imagine a tabletop where 4 random IG infantry models just wipe out like 2000 other models

I'd be pissed as fuck

[slow spade]

Laspistol users smh

[tall torrent]

Wolfer when the inquisitorial strike team’s lasman keeps rolling 6:

[pastel geode]

I found it hilarious when the radio operator said they were getting reports of a company sized element in the amphitheater

It was just three guardsmen and a psyker when I got that

[slow spade]

Even Wolfer was like "bullshit"

[tall torrent]

“Reports say at least 50 enemies holding out in the amphitheatre”

“Sir they have at least a platoon strength unit down there”

[bitter turtle]

the enemies haven't figured out that m ashing spacebar left and ri ght dodges all bullets

please understand

[slow spade]

That Emperor really do be protecting UwU

[strange grove]

ooo Boltgun is on sale

[pastel geode]

Emperor protects his little green army men

[finite imp]

The emperor working 24 hours around the clock to calculate the worst possible drop he can give me at the end of a High intensity damnation

[pastel geode]

I’m convinced that’s just melk trolling

[delicate estuary]

dunno man left side keystone vet with exe stance feels fine so far in aurics

[slow spade]

"Damage taken: 264" go back to Sedition

[finite imp]

could I jsut get one uncanny strike blessing

just one

jesus

[strange grove]

whats the current best brauto rn?

[slow spade]

UwU

[junior needle]

agri

[finite imp]

always agri

[strange grove]

Do you have to take stealth to make a brauto build work?

[slow spade]

Has it ever not been Agri is a better question

[pastel geode]

No, I run shout with a columnus brauto

[sharp ember]

take exe stance

become the turret

[delicate moat]

what infiltrate build u guys are running?

[candid bridge]

Do any of the brautos fire as fast as the Columnus IAG

[delicate moat]

i have never used it so far

[serene sage]

Is this what I should build for Crit Vet?

[junior needle]

Posting the setup/gun can be helpful for making a convincing case as well

[sharp ember]

graia is the same on hipfire, but fires 20% faster when braced and also gains reverse accuracy bloom

[pastel geode]

The columnus brauto is basically the same as the iag but 2x the damage since you can’t ads

[serene sage]

Could you tell me how my crit build is looking?

[topaz lance]

For crit vet you should run chastise, noob.

[serene sage]

Oh sorry. You're right.

Probably kickback is best gun yeah?

[pastel geode]

You need to build more pylons

[topaz lance]

Yes + dueling sword

[junior needle]

I'm seeing some big critties in your future, with my third vet eye

[delicate moat]

i think give up reality anchor for precog

[serene sage]

Thank you lmao. I actually needed advice and Psyker chat won't tell

[junior needle]

I don't play gun psyker, but if I did I would be ashamed of myself

[serene sage]

They just tell you to check the pin (which there isn't any info unless you want to look at 30 days worth of convo)

[delicate moat]

i like the 30s DD over 30 stacks, but that's just personal preference

[topaz lance]

Discord sucks for building a knowledge base

it's not meant to be able to do it either

[blazing stone]

This isn't about builds, but the for Voice of Command, the Cadian puts his whole heart and soul into the shout and holy shit it's singlehandedly making me use the ability

[plush notch]

the emperor blessed me..

[slow spade]

Its always much fun randomly using the search tool to see find info

[junior needle]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2917274959

The aethenium has a gun psyker example build I believe, probably why they said to check the pin.

[slow spade]

I literally was just randomly looking at videos in psyker chat and stumbled upon an interesting Scier's Gaze build

Truly the optimal way to find info UwU

[candid bridge]

When are we getting a compendium like the ogryns have

[slow spade]

When Vets stop sucking ass at the game

I'm pretty sure Vets still comprise of most of the shitty players

Or maybe Psyker now 🤔

[candid bridge]

It’s def still vets lol

John Darktide and all

[zinc osprey]

New players will start with vet cause he's the most similar to other shooter games lol

Not a problem, just how it be

[hearty panther]

Also Guardsmen are quite popular

[candid bridge]

Guns are cool, psychic powers are lame 😎

[strange grove]

I'm thinking columnus brauto with onslaught would be pretty badass

[topaz lance]

This but unironically

[slow spade]

And they will still queue into Damnation thinking they can do shit when they've unbound their block key

[delicate moat]

See, I'm happy to setup a little Vet wiki page / website, problem is I don't have the knowledge and time to actually write the proper content

[fast scaffold]

Its the monkey's paw of a bigger playerbase

[delicate moat]

Best I can do is a smoke guide

[slow spade]

True I've not seen many good ogryns

They don't typically die but they genuinely do worse than bots

[swift flax]

oh lord

[slow spade]

"I think I will light spam with shield" -ogryn queueing into auric damnation

[slow spade]

Actually near perfect

What the fuck

Its all natural too

[swift flax]

this is the first weapon i consecrate on my level 30 vet

i still have my levelling stuff

[gaunt delta]

John Darktide’s Lasgun

[slow spade]

Nice job on rolling a near perfect weapon lol, even my lvl 380 Vet only has like 2 weapons even close to that

[gaunt delta]

Shame it’s a MG IV

[wanton dawn]

Vet still feels like the most volatile class performance wise

[slow spade]

Still a good gun

[tall torrent]

And can instantly downgrade any vet’s power by hogging ammo and blocking all the shots

[fervent monolith]

what's the difference between hellbore 1 and hellbore 2

[tulip condor]

Congrats, but every weapon you make from now on is going to be shit now

[swift flax]

now i just need a good melee

[junior needle]

Charge time and fire rate, damage

[nimble sentinel]

1 is standard, 2 is speedy

[strange grove]

ok agri brauto is the best, you can fire braced in quick bursts for devestating effect

[fast scaffold]

Ive had a chance to play a bit on the new patch, the left keystone feels anathema to what you are supposed to do in this game

[fervent monolith]

ty

[delicate moat]

I want to write a guide for vet, but unfortunately I'm not good enough at this game to do it

[slow spade]

Devil claw for reliable, psword if you're rich or want to chase a dream

[untold mulch]

it works better with fullauto weapons

But yeah, design wise, is kinda a bruh imo

[junior needle]

It is, just not the best gun for carrying t4 headhunter/deadly due to it being the low damage variant

[thick rose]

how do I unfuck my scoreboard mod, its almost useless by default

[swift flax]

out of curiosity why those 2 mentioned specifically

[fast scaffold]

you are competing for headshots, cannot move much, and it's progression does not have any grenade based talents in it

[nimble sentinel]

IV is good

[slow spade]

Indeed, but it will do well

[slow spade]

Because those are the only ones I know lmao

[trim steppe]

Wow, jackpot

[gaunt delta]

ok

[junior needle]

You can turn off a bunch of the useless options in the settings. You can also use ovenproofs scoreboard plugin or the regular scoreboard damage plugin for better damage breakdowns.

[topaz lance]

Chainsword is also a no-brainer

[wanton dawn]

Yesterday i had a lvl 31 ogryn discovering that you might not want to rush ahead into a 20+ packs of mauler/rager/crusher/bulwark in no ammo maelstrom. He disconnected after going down

[slow spade]

I only briefly tried chainsword (dropped after like 2 games) and Axe (was alright just wasn't as fun)

[sharp epoch]

i wonder what percent of vet have power cycler

[fast scaffold]

If you use anything but default settings for scoreboard you are going against FS game design of giving you dumb metrics

[strange grove]

whats best blessings for a brauto? same for iags?

[trim steppe]

It took me about 200 hours on my vet to find Power Cycler (4) and then within the next 10 hours I found 3 power cycler 3s

[wanton dawn]

What blessing is as important as pc is to ps, all weapon included?

[serene sage]

Holy shit

[trim steppe]

DumDum is very strong, then sort of pick your favorite. Deathspitter or Stripped Down probably

[sharp epoch]

it took me like 100 hours

[serene sage]

I have 4, most have none
Wealth inequality

[wanton dawn]

I'd argue that onslaught is not "essential" but i get the point

[sharp epoch]

idk how new vets expect to compete without it though

[hollow ibex]

Chainsword good though

[trim steppe]

Power Cycler 4 should be baked back into the sword and then Power Cycler should do something else

[near sable]

power sword should be a completely different weapon

[serene sage]

The Lighthouse enjoyer?

[half ginkgo]

Shovel roll blessing wise is Uncanny and Skullcrusher right?

[wanton dawn]

Pc is a design error rn

[near sable]

deci

[strange grove]

ill take it

[hollow ibex]

i won't get carpal tunnel playing it, and it doesn't take gambling 50 hours worth of mats grinding to get a half-decent build, so yeah, it's good

[serene sage]

PS usage nerf incoming

[strange grove]

wow the ammo on these things are big yikes

[near sable]

sir you're doing 163 damage/shot

[trim steppe]

Fire Frenzy is the Brauto version of IAG's DumDum, that thing is great. Swap your perks and you're golden

[near sable]

mg12 is doing 266/"three ammo"

zamn

[strange grove]

https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-dog-shit-gif-25374997

[half ginkgo]

• Carpal Syndrome (seems to be MG4 values)

[strange grove]

ill try it out, but only with the ammo talent

[untold mulch]

Recon II be like

[half ginkgo]

For recon you need to drop the leading 1 in the dmg value

[nimble sentinel]

Nice meme, mind if I...

[serene sage]

Columnus does 5 damage to Carapace

Five

FIVE

[wanton dawn]

Recon is on top of my boring weapon list

[strange grove]

going keystoneless for this brauto, need onslaught

[tall torrent]

Recon is fun once in a while

But if it’s your “main gun” it can get boring fast

Shame it’s just not good rn

[half ginkgo]

Yeah, late night recon fuckery on malice before sleep meds kick in is acceptable

[serene sage]

Recon is what I would play if I need to convince myself life isn't worth living

[untold mulch]

It is?

Still no hellgun

[strange grove]

lol

no grenade tinkerer tho

[serene sage]

Cursed tree

[half ginkgo]

Very very cursed

[tall torrent]

Why do u need suppression immunity for braced auto

[strange grove]

or maybe onslaught isn't needed with agri

[tall torrent]

That’s such a bizarre combo

[serene sage]

For ammo

[nimble sentinel]

my guess, need the ammo and get nothing out of shock trooper

[trim steppe]

I'd def take onslaught but you can drop ammo node honestly, its nice but you give up too much

[serene sage]

It's either that or shock trooper on brauti xD

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it really needs that 25% ammo ngl

[serene sage]

Idk I didn't make the build

[half ginkgo]

Btw is it me or there are more specialists/elites post-patch?

[strange grove]

I guess I can take more grenade talents if I drop ammo talent

[tall torrent]

I don’t even think you need 30% weakpoint on braced auto just because u won’t hit it as often as the other guns

[wanton dawn]

If recon had some recoil it might be funnier to use

[serene sage]

Lots more Ragers

[karmic musk]

More gunners

[serene sage]

For me at least

[terse idol]

It does

[trim steppe]

Drop the whole left side and you get 5 points back to really bolster the rest of your build. Get nades and some of the toughness talents at the top. Out for Blood is amazing

[terse idol]

Or it has bullet spread for some reason

[half ginkgo]

Heh, and I am seeing stupid amounts of Shotgunners

[tall torrent]

Nah, bullet spread when ADS is cringe

Giving it a bit more recoil would be nice

[serene sage]

Is it socially acceptable to shoot horde with Columnus friends

[wanton dawn]

Barely. Feels like i am firing a lamp

[tall torrent]

Darktide doesn’t have bullet spread when ADS

[half ginkgo]

It is if your friend magdumps horde with Bolter and/or plasma

[tall torrent]

Unless you’re suppressed

[trim steppe]

In a pinch but if you do it all the time I'm taking all your ammo

[untold mulch]

Fatshark: We increased melee special health to reduce their spawns

Also Fatshark: HERE TAKE 25+ RAGERS

[half ginkgo]

Plasma gun goes brrrr

[nimble sentinel]

jokes on you my lasgun gets free ammo for popping poxwalker domes

[tall torrent]

It is socially acceptable if you’re using it to stack up deathspitter/fire frenzy to kill the priority targets behind the horde

[strange grove]

ok ill try this

[serene sage]

Yeah that's definitely what I meant to do

Definitely

[half ginkgo]

Does extra nade really worth 2 points?

[wanton dawn]

Sire you missed the 10% melee dmg node

[tall torrent]

Veteran without 10% melee dmg node is just incomplete

Like you’re missing something

[strange grove]

crushers be scary

[karmic musk]

Its amazing how ppl can reach Damnation without knowing how to ping regularly but here we are

[last pewter]

I am always amazed how most people who play Vet don't even go for the Keystones lol

[untold hull]

tbh there isn't enough points for them
depending on how you decide to build

[half ginkgo]

Mid keystone is love mid keystone is life imho

[wanton dawn]

It is alright but maybe dont go for thoughness on melee kill without it

[last pewter]

aye that is true, and what's funny is Vet still works well even without a Keystone

[strange grove]

If i grab that melee damage node, I might as well get that 5% ranged damage on left side

[tall torrent]

Isn’t out for blood applicable for every kill, not just melee?

[wanton dawn]

Vet is really hard to build properly atm

[trim steppe]

Looks pretty good. This is what I'd do personally

[wanton dawn]

I need to test

[thick rose]

I like the mid keystone, because its like NEON LIGHTS in pubs

[trim steppe]

It is every kill

Or it SHOULD be idk if its bugged sometimes

[tall torrent]

This my build
Agripinaa mk1 infantry autogun
Rashad mk2 combat axe
Hits every breakpoint I want

[thick rose]

32487342178

[strange grove]

Thats interesting with the agile node on brauto, I'll have to swap more often tho

[half ginkgo]

The reason is why I like mid keystone is that I can roll plasma to unarmored and unyielding and don’t worry about BPs

[wanton dawn]

My understanding was that it improved base thoughness regen on melee kill

[half ginkgo]

Saves time in grinder

[trim steppe]

it works on ranged too you get 3.5% back

[karmic musk]

Improve 5% by 3.8%

[wanton dawn]

Additive man

[strange grove]

ok trying this out rn

[trim steppe]

Youre always in the thick of it so I find myself switching a decent amount

[wanton dawn]

If i test it and find it doesnt i'll be mad

[tall torrent]

I think the 3.5% on kill node is pretty good if you’re using power sword

[smoky bloom]

Struggling really hard getting downed super fast with gunners only on vet. Will go down before I can even pop stealth.

think i need Gunner resist. Any other options recommended?

[strange grove]

gunner resist bis on curios imo

[slow spade]

Obligatory kill them

[tall torrent]

But longshot + exhilarating takedown is pretty strong now if u can hit 1 tap headshot breakpoints on shooters

[forest blaze]

It's also good if you're using frags

[smoky bloom]

Yeah, i had 1 on there, but not enough at all

[tall torrent]

Yea, I think it’s best for power sword so u are punished less for bad timings

[nimble sentinel]

just click on their heads

/uj a bit more focus on the ranged bits of your build perhaps, and treat them as high priority like flamers and bombers

[delicate moat]

use VoC, use smokes, use cover

[smoky bloom]

I shall indeed gitguuds 😄

[forest blaze]

Totally. I tried o4b the other day with PS, Plasma, Frags and felt invincible.

[smoky bloom]

I'm trying to make stealth work but VoC seems straight better in most cases

[stark hollow]

gimme

[delicate moat]

then it is usually more of a case of poor positioning

[tall torrent]

But if you’re using guns that can very reliably one shot shooters in the head with safe melees, I think exhilarating takedown is definitively the best pick out of the 3

[delicate moat]

you shouldn't be struggling against gunners if you don't get caught in the open

[hearty panther]

Out for Blood is every kill.

Read it literally.

[wanton dawn]

K, it seems it does work on all kill.

[smoky bloom]

its only when I do lol. but it happens when they spawn so many

[nimble sentinel]

out for blood is also only 3.5%, ET is 10% PLUS damage resistance

[wanton dawn]

Still prefer ck though

[hearty panther]

And yes it does include barrel explosions

[tall torrent]

ET is 15% now

[nimble sentinel]

even better!

we are the ranged class we should be getting ranged kills

[tall torrent]

CK is probably better for guns that just one tap specials & elites

[serene sage]

It depends on the build. Melee/nade heavy will want Out for Blood

[delicate moat]

if u use cover and isolate ur firefights, it shouldn't be a problen

[serene sage]

It applies on grenade too

Grenadier builds should take it

[hearty panther]

On bleed kills.

Literally everything.

[nimble sentinel]

ET procs on nades?

[tall torrent]

No, O4B

[nimble sentinel]

ah

yeh that would be a good use case

[hearty panther]

it even works when im slaying ur mum

[tall torrent]

O4B - melee/grenade focus
ET - reliable gun 1 tap headshot shooters
CK - reliable gun 1 tap specials & elites

That’s my understanding

[slow spade]

There's also the ping keystone toughness restore c:

[hearty panther]

Vaguely yes but not quite.

CK is also melee.

[serene sage]

I think all 3 toughness regen have their niche

I can appreciate that

[karmic musk]

CK and nth else exists

[hearty panther]

If you're chopping shit up with a Caxe CK pays dividends.

[wanton dawn]

Man, thanks god we have born leader to share all that thoughness !

[serene sage]

Yeah

[stark hollow]

me like ping

[serene sage]

I run both CK and O4B

[sharp epoch]

😭

[serene sage]

For my nade/melee/ranged build

[tall torrent]

If only we had 4 extra points to get all 3 variations and become the toughness tank we needed to be

[serene sage]

Man I'm sure glad everyone on the team will notice it

[terse idol]

One day it'll be better understood

🥹

[south garnet]

I actually love when rager patrols show up, so much fun

[terse idol]

Doesn't even show up as support score

[serene sage]

Honestly though, buff born leader so that it gives 10 Overshield

[tall torrent]

The only noticeable toughness share are VoC and tag keystone TD

[untold mulch]

Kinda same

[serene sage]

Then I think it would feel so much better

[south garnet]

Make those shredders and that melee weapon put in work

[serene sage]

Just 10 Overshield for team

[wanton dawn]

With born leader o4b will give your mate 0.5% thoughness back ! Value !

[untold mulch]

Balanced

Ship it

[terse idol]

Ah yes 10% toughness

[tall torrent]

Honestly, make born leader heal your toughness on 15% of whatever toughness your teammates gain

[wanton dawn]

That is not what a born leader does. That is what an energy vampire does !

[serene sage]

*Terms and conditions apply. Pregnant women should consult with physicians. This drug has no effect on full toughness patient. Not approved by the FDA.

[south garnet]

FS: "We've heard you. Born Leader will now replenish 5% to your teammates of any toughness you replen, and then you will also be replenished 5% of that quantity

[serene sage]

Fuck it, make it so that 50% toughness regen by team go to you instead

[wanton dawn]

Newton called, he wants his method back

[south garnet]

Honestly what's the problem with just saying 25% increased coherency regeneration for you and allies in coherency or something

[serene sage]

Would your teammates get 5% of the 5% you get back because you technically regen toughness?

[south garnet]

It's still meaningless but at least it does something

[serene sage]

Can we have a recursion and break the game

[trim steppe]

Just take all 3 and become a god

[slow spade]

"Oops we broke it and now Born Leader removes 15% toughness generated"

[south garnet]

"Fixed an issue introduced three patches ago where taking born leader would give you and allies in coherency infinite toughness"

[serene sage]

Take 5% movement speed filler

[tall torrent]

Lack of 10% melee node, not good

[frank ether]

thats a good filler

[trim steppe]

PS 1-shots all trash anyway why do I need 10%

[serene sage]

That and 10% melee

Probably best filler in game tbh

[slow spade]

Bigger number

[frank ether]

the only problem with the right path movement speed is you're not getting ANY toughness DR from right path at all

[trim steppe]

Stam is nice

[sharp epoch]

stamina regen delay 🤨

[slow spade]

I'd argue the +25 toughness nodes

[tall torrent]

Oh in that case that’s fine ig

[serene sage]

Thy mother

[tall torrent]

I use combat axe and I need that 10% melee

[lean mountain]

https://i.imgur.com/6YivM3p.png

I choose chaos

[slow spade]

:c

[serene sage]

Don't do that to yourself

[wanton dawn]

Bleh, rez node

Bleh

[tall torrent]

Until I manage to roll an axe with >75% on all 4 stats with unarmored + flak for perks, and BM + headtaker/thrust/decimator

[serene sage]

Life is worth living @lean mountain

[lean mountain]

https://i.imgur.com/5jV1JE7.png

What's a little bit of heresy

[humble nova]

INQUISITOR!

[south garnet]

how do I even tell what the range on this bullshit is? it's not 'in coherency' so you just have to eyeball it and hope it works or otherwise pop a squat over whoever's larping as a rug

[wanton dawn]

Truly a born leader

[lean mountain]

i think you can hold the button down to see idk I just shout

[south garnet]

Hm, if so that would be helpful

[karmic musk]

Is Fatshark ever gonna fix the cheese that is quit game bots

[serene sage]

I've seen it 1 in maybe 20 games

I think it's not worth the priority

Eventually, maybe

[trim steppe]

Not really a cheese imo, it rarely even saves a run

[south garnet]

With CDR it's... fine, but it's not great. Generally speaking it arguably makes the ability worse

[lean mountain]

https://i.imgur.com/0yKDWyS.png

FUCK IT WE BALL

[wanton dawn]

Bot quitting kill scoreboard 😢

[south garnet]

Even if, or especially if, you only took the base ability

[frank ether]

bruh darktide players be like

do all the cheaty shit

and then ''game too ez''

[lean mountain]

need my plasteel

[slow spade]

To be fair, if trapper gets me through a solid wall

It gets the alt+f4 treatment

[lean mountain]

id give my soul to tzeench for more plasteel...

[hollow lion]

what should I swap out on this? dont really use pswords

[slow spade]

Fun times in Atoma

[wanton dawn]

Id give my plasteel to tzeench for my soul

[slow spade]

Supercharge is largely unneeded

[karmic musk]

Sure bro, not my experience at all

[slow spade]

And carapace isn't really too relevant

I'd go flak or maniac to replace carapace

[hollow lion]

was thinking to swap carapace with maniac and supercharge with idk something lol

[slow spade]

Supercharge with brutal momentum imo

[wanton dawn]

Bm or sunder

[hollow lion]

slaughterer I guess i dunno

[trim steppe]

With the amount of broken weird garbage to wade through in this game, I don't mind the occasional broken weird helpful thing. Fix all the bad stuff first

[slow spade]

Maniac lets you one shot kill mutants with block attack on weakspot

[hollow lion]

yee thats what I'll go with then

[wanton dawn]

Sunder let you ignore bulwark. Among other things

[hollow lion]

I mean its just mostly a horde clear weapon right

[wanton dawn]

Ps can kill everything

[slow spade]

Psword is a "kill anything"

Even daemonhosts take a ton of damage on weakspot hits

[delicate moat]

nurgle blessing ragers are really something

[smoky bloom]

The push stab is no joke

[whole moon]

6 doesn't need sunder to hit crusher or bulwark the block charge stab does em both and penetrates bulwark shield
Unless they changed it and I missed it

[wanton dawn]

Ps weakness is low agility and uncharged state

[slow spade]

They need a buff UwU

[ruby hull]

Helbore bayonet is MY kill anything button

I'ma poke their eyes out

[wanton dawn]

Not what i meant #veteran-class message

[south vessel]

Just lost a game with an Ogryn who decided they'd sit in a corner for a whole set piece with their shield up, because I waited to deploy an ammo crate until after the drop into the arena and not above by the medicae. 10/10 roleplaying

[whole moon]

Not sticking on sweeps?

[wanton dawn]

Ignore shield/carapace block

[slow spade]

Its a shame how many games are lost not because the enemy was overwhelming but because teammates were sandbagging lol

[ruby hull]

Im still trying to get a 6 myself with bromentum and power cycler, for my bayonet melee build since the only thing it can't kill with extreme overkill is carapace

[humble nova]

No kill like overkill

[whole moon]

The Hellbore bayonette charge (Mk 2) is crazy fun and very effective.

[ruby hull]

I had a match yesterday where I got 470k melee damage with bayonet and 600K+ overkill damage

[south vessel]

That's disgusting

[humble nova]

Out here living your best redcoat life

[wise wren]

hey whats the god roll plasma gun?

[south vessel]

Do you have a macro for bayonet? It makes me feel like I'm going to get RSI

[ruby hull]

So I don't have to kill my thumb

[sharp epoch]

bind bayonet to left click and shoot to right click

[split ibex]

Anyone have any advice for the Make Every Shot Count Penances?

[humble nova]

Shotgun

[stark hollow]

if your mouse has spare buttons can bind it to one of those

[ruby hull]

God I wish, too bad helbore hipfire ain't worth a damn

[strange grove]

They need to fix HB and bolter wonky equipment animations

Equip*

Fuck autocorrect

[ruby hull]

I got a got mod for multiple keybinds and bound it to m1+m4 so all I have to do is hold down m4 and attack normally with my m1

[humble nova]

Only thing I dislike about HB is the swap time. Makes you not want to put it away.

Admittedly you can basically shoot everything on the map and never run out of ammo so it lends itself to that unless you're getting overrun

[rugged portal]

HB, for sure. They should make it function like the Lasgun. Normal hip fire but charge on aiming.

Bolter feels justified in its wonkiness because of its pure power. I wouldn't hate if it was a bit quicker though.

[zinc osprey]

The bayonet also attacks faster if you get the +10% melee attack speed

[serene sage]

Meanwhile the Revolver can do whatever the hell it wants

[humble nova]

Yeah, and the recent bayonet buff helps them notably

[zinc osprey]

And you move faster when you hold the bayonet attack ready

[ruby hull]

Bayonet can do disgusting crowd clear damage because it penetrates like 5 enemies in a straight line every swing and you can swing it around mid attack to change targets making it stupid good at horde clear

[zinc osprey]

Agree

[humble nova]

Hmm maybe I'll have to try it again

[ruby hull]

Btw bayonet buffs it's own damage by 25% with agile engagement

[humble nova]

You running right keystone with it or marking?

[strange grove]

Sounds like a bug..... FATSHARK!

[ruby hull]

Most of right tree with krak, improved krak and 6 seconds off ult cool down on special kill

[zinc osprey]

1 sec I'll show you the tree

[ruby hull]

No keystone, I stop at killzone since I barely swap

[humble nova]

Good point

[ruby hull]

All the melee damage buffs in right tree affect bayonet so it gets buffed to the moon

Can one shot mutants and 2 shot rangers with it

[grim walrus]

It will take a while, but I am going there.

[terse idol]

It saved my auric damnation run 🥹

[sharp epoch]

wats the max toughness vet can have?

[terse idol]

Definetly something FS needs to address

I mean I felt good cause we won

[terse idol]

But damn it's shitty

[tall torrent]

[Everybody liked that.]

[trim steppe]

On the list of priorities for things to fix about this game, this is near the bottom lol. How about fix silent specialists so you don't need bot cheese in the first place

[tall torrent]

Fix crusher zero overhead audio

[slow spade]

Buff revolver

[terse idol]

I mean

You shouldn't need bot cheese to beat quiet specs

They should both be on top

Because their issues go hand in hand with one another

[lean mountain]

sniper lasers should yell at you when aimed at your head

[strange grove]

they should fix spawning poxbursters/trappers on the door you have your back to

[karmic musk]

Most Damnation players I see just Alt F4 the moment they see they arent getting revived anyways

[terse idol]

Now to be fair, at least pox walkers wait for their turn

Trappers being quiet and in doors behind you

[zinc osprey]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9aacf15f-9361-46ba-986f-9de96bc6cca3/krieger-frolics-in-the-flowers

No keystones. No need

[humble nova]

huehue

[sharp epoch]

i think the tree is poorly balanced if half the vets dont take keystones

[zinc osprey]

The power of shovels and lasers preserves me.

[humble nova]

I doubt it's that high of a percentage

[zinc osprey]

disagree. Means we have tons of build options.

[terse idol]

I think people are allergic to change
Weapon spec is incredible

[zinc osprey]

tbh everyone posting here is not the average player.

[terse idol]

Focus is scuffed though I will admit

[lean mountain]

is that the outline one

[trim steppe]

Vet tree is a total mess. Builds are good but annoying to make

[sharp epoch]

I don't get why it's good though, it gives ranged attack speed and one crit

[lean mountain]

https://i.imgur.com/pyagZrv.png

how can I improve this gun

[sharp epoch]

and for melee its dodge distance (😐) and 15% attack speed

[sharp epoch]

I mean other classes can not take keystones and have "tons of build options" and having their keystones super viable options too

[south vessel]

Patch 15 feels worse than the original one

[trim steppe]

If quit bot saves bother you then just leave when it happens 🤷‍♂️ it's not like you're cheesing another team of players, this game is PVE

[zinc osprey]

Yeah same with vets

[south vessel]

Looking at it makes me want to swap to my Zealot

[zinc osprey]

inb4 ppl say keystones bad

[sharp epoch]

But the keystones are terrible and take 20-21 points to reach

[merry oak]

They are playing "realisticlly" perma death

[zinc osprey]

They're not.

[hearty frigate]

Boltgun is best

[topaz lance]

keystones ok, tree to long

there it is, shush now

[fast scaffold]

You can't argue that Marksman Focus is a healthy playstyle even if you can make it work

[rugged portal]

I still think they just need to scrap or combine some talents. Stuff like Agile Engagement and Trench Fighter Drill should just be part of the weapon specialist keystone.

[trim steppe]

Keystones are good, getting to them sucks ass cuz once you're done you have 5 points to "customize" your build

[smoky bloom]

Crit to 25%vs flack and TB to No respite 4 maybe

[zinc osprey]

idk what you mean by healthy. but it does work

[tiny summit]

TBH I've had people leave when they died and the bot was able to rez and/or stay alive for another to join that it was beneficial and saved the situation

[trim steppe]

Ping spam is peak gameplay design

[zinc osprey]

I just think it's meant for semiauto autoguns and lasguns (except the helbore maybe)

[serene sage]

it is really fun to use though

[karmic musk]

Many times this happen, its an intentional effect ppl aim for

[zinc osprey]

yeah it's great when that happens

[serene sage]

I used to hate keystones

I've turned around on them

[south vessel]

tree too long, not enough swap points in the bottom third, decent nodes spread out randomly

[serene sage]

the nodes you need to get through to get them on the other hand

that's the problem

keystones are strong and worth it

[zinc osprey]

Thinking of dropping slaughterer for Powercycler

Only got power cycler III rn

[tiny summit]

I mean there's plenty of moments in all difficulties that you can be still and be uninterrupted. If you're worried about always maintaining your stacks, they yea feels like ass but you get your stacks when you can and it works without being a hinderance

[rugged portal]

Yeah. I agree. It's not that the keystones are bad but you give up a lot trying to get to them and it's not like the vet is strong to begin with.

[willow badger]

I'd ping spam but they die too fast 😦

[zinc osprey]

Rebind ping to m1 or m2

[willow badger]

So how many stacks of focus do you guys typically have

[zinc osprey]

Don't have to think about it ever again

[trim steppe]

People in here complaining that if they leave a game their teammates don't get hosed. Lmao what a weird take

[zinc osprey]

7 - 10

Only need 3 most of the time imo

[tiny summit]

Dunno. I just take camouflage, I think it usually hangs around 7-10 when I look at it

[fast scaffold]

I've heard it's better with full autos, marksman focus has you staying still, fighting to get headshots, I feel like psyker in the early days when everyone was shooting the brainburst target, all for a pretty eh reward with a high cost in playstyle. If I were to rebalance it, headshot kill gives 1 stack, and allows you to move for 5-6 seconds.

[sharp epoch]

The focus target keystone only changes like two breakpoints its pretty pointless other than bosses

[zinc osprey]

It gives you and the team a shitton of damage when at full stacks

It's a support node, in that it literally buffs your teammates damage.

[sharp epoch]

on what though everything except crushers and bosses die in a millisecond?

[rugged portal]

I kind of think, if they changed it so headshots AND crits let you move, it would probably be about right.

[zinc osprey]

This isn't even true of gunners. bro are you good?

[fast scaffold]

Crabbing around the map with crouch dodges is not a good look also

[willow badger]

It'd be cool to see like a running percentage tracker of what buffs you got to your main damage

[bold ibex]

it is finished.

[sharp epoch]

gunners get one tapped by plenty of builds

[zinc osprey]

Ragers, Maulers, Crushers, Mutants, Bosses - all great targets for it

[zinc osprey]

And plenty that don't that would benefit from the ping

[zinc osprey]

beautiful

[civic knot]

What perk is good on laspistol besides flak? i already got it on the roll. Maybe crit chance?

[zinc osprey]

Sorry bud I don't know.

[bold ibex]

you want crit chance just to reduce the ammo consumption, but I'd prefer manaic over flak

[civic knot]

true that would annihilate ragers

[bold ibex]

if your'e switching it around you could try both. With weapon swap builds you might not need the +5% crit chance and could go +25% maniac

[sharp epoch]

It's not worth it, I play malestroms the one elite you ping theres 10 more and it takes 16 seconds to regen full stacks

[rugged portal]

Yep. If anything, I think focus target should give your team more buffs and less dmg because the buff on kill is a more interesting mechanic and it gives your allies incentive to kill what you target.

[bold ibex]

not just ragers, it's the mutants and flamers that you save your team from. Just bam bam bam and all the TPK threats are dead

[terse idol]

Why would I leave when it benefits me, but the issue still stands that the issues surrounding sound shouldn't excuse people from using an exploit to eek out a win

[zinc osprey]

Don't need full stacks

[tiny summit]

Also it's a tag. With 3 points, you give your team a free dmg amp, free toughness, free stamina and free dmg and you now have refreshed stacks for the next target for more toughness, more stamina and dmg

[zinc osprey]

Legate gets it

Team player mindset

[rugged portal]

Yeah. I just tag shit constantly because it basically gives your team a constant buff. No need for full stacks.

[serene sage]

it's 12% all damage buff with near perma uptime

that's what ping is for for me

idc about about the damage debuff on enemies

[zinc osprey]

The only time the full stacks are needed are bosses.

[tiny summit]

Like my only complaint about it is that I don't like all the stacks weighing the same. Stacks are easy to get but I'd prefer if the first stack weighed more. 4% 1 stack is like a joke, single stacks isn't an actual issue, it's just funny

[sharp epoch]

you use revolver right? does that change any breakpoints though, whuch is the main point of damage buffs

[bold ibex]

this could be worse but i'm salty about surgical. have surgical 4. Woulda killed for one of them to be the +crit on headshot

[serene sage]

no I use CAxe with nade

[sharp epoch]

I use plasma it just lets me one shot muties on sword

[serene sage]

nade damage buff is neat, bleed too

also CAxe can one shot shooters with buff I think

[terse idol]

I mean wait why are you pinging 10 times a second

You can

Get a kill with 8 stacks of take it down, mark someone else and you keep that 8 stack for buffs

[zinc osprey]

Depending on kind, but I've seen this

[trim steppe]

Focus target should work by applying the special ping outline to any special or elite you damage instead of making you ping spam. The fact that so many people remap tag to left click should tell you it's a bad mechanic

[tiny summit]

I mean breakpoints are what matter if you're literally being the only dmg dealer but you have 3 others randomly swinging and spewing bullets of various fire rates and dmg

[sharp epoch]

cant you already with desperado?

[serene sage]

i dont run that

[terse idol]

Take it down is fun

[serene sage]

it's fine, the tree is just so point heavy

[sharp epoch]

uhhh 30% weakspot also gets you bruiser breakpoint too maybe

[bold ibex]

what kills me is you waste everyone's time pinging shit you shouldn't ping, and then can't ping stuff that matters.

[serene sage]

the keystones are fine, they are just expensive because of tree

i dont hate them anymore

[bold ibex]

when someone pings something, it should be "Oh shit, ya'll better get on this" not "Oh look at the gunner I'm about to one shot"

[trim steppe]

Seriously. Make it a separate ping that happens automatically. It's already a different visual effect. As it stands it is bad design 100%. Even tho it is strong

[tiny summit]

This is an issue if you feel the need to ping a new target every second instead of being a normal person and killing the thing that's pinged, gained you the stacks back or its downtime for the stacks to build

[sharp epoch]

im not saying it doesnt do that im saying its mot worth it

[sharp epoch]

you dont gain all the stacks back btw

[terse idol]

But I will say take it down is a heavy keystone to invest because you want the buffs

[rugged portal]

Yeah. If I was balancing, I would say, drop some of other talents and add more vuffs to the keystones because a lot of the keystones could stand to be stronger or more versatile.

[terse idol]

I mean survivalist should maybe be a passive for vets

[bold ibex]

or just knock out some of the toughness nodes and buffs vets baseline toughness.

[terse idol]

Or if FS isn't willing to make survivalist baseline they ought to kill it

[serene sage]

that's how you should play ping tbh, you ping the things that are about to die to keep Redirect Fire up

[tiny summit]

K. Are you also tagging every new thing you see every second?

[serene sage]

I love pinging buster before shoving them

[sharp epoch]

I tag things that affect my breakpoints

[serene sage]

unless boss then i would wait for more stacks

[sharp epoch]

or crushers/bulwarks/reapers

[terse idol]

Why would you need to considering every new thing is gonna be clustered?

[rugged portal]

Honestly, some of the normal talents should be baseline vet stuff. We should already get +25% ammo and maybe even grenade regen without talents.

[tiny summit]

I'm saying it's an issue if you're a madman if you're pinging every new thing before the thing is even dead

[terse idol]

The team doesn't need to know there's 5 gunners in a clusters via spam ping

Because the first ping is gonna let everyone know in the first place

[tiny summit]

That's what I mean

[terse idol]

Naw not grenade regen

Survivalist

Grenade regen is too strong for free

[trim steppe]

That's a problem. Ping is a team info tool that is being usurped for a buff. Why tell your team to look at something that is going to die in .1 seconds?

[tiny summit]

I'm pretty sure this a team game and we're talking about a team talent

[terse idol]

Unless FS adjusts how many ammo drops exist on the map

Survivalist needs to be baseline

[umbral scaffold]

I think removing extra ammo and survivalist is healthier for the game

[terse idol]

Probably they need to just add more ammo drops

[bold ibex]

we used to have ammo and they nerfed us for no reason

[rugged portal]

Yeah. If anything, give vets a survivalist but only for themselves as a basic thing. Not as a buff for allies and change the aura to something else.

[serene sage]

Between 12% ALL damage buff TEAM wide and a single ping

[zinc osprey]

this USED TO BE A REAL coUnTRY

[serene sage]

Which one would you take

[sharp epoch]

Also I don't get why vet gets a team keystone every other class doesnt even on support tree

[terse idol]

Hmm

I'm conflicted

[zinc osprey]

wdym

[terse idol]

Because some guns benefit alot from survivalist for vets some benefit little

[trim steppe]

The talent is strong and worth taking, but the implementation is BAD. Ping shouldn't be used like that.

Fundamentally it's bad game design

[terse idol]

Technically shieldgrn is a support tree in itself

[umbral scaffold]

The implementation is barely different from what tag already does

[rugged portal]

It benefits the class that needs it the most but doesn't throw off the curve for other classes.

[terse idol]

Vet doesn't need it most, gunngryn does

[umbral scaffold]

They grabbed the same functionality tag already has, made it piss yellow and had it give a bunch of buffs

[terse idol]

[sharp epoch]

But the keystone is literally juat flat 25% damage resist nothing team related

[terse idol]

Lasgun builds don't need that much ammo

[sharp epoch]

Juat give vet a non team keystone

[terse idol]

IaG's sure

[rugged portal]

Orgyn take the ammo pickups we dont take.

[terse idol]

Well with a taunt

But I get you

[sharp epoch]

Uhh keystones not ult

[zinc osprey]

Weapon Specialist

[terse idol]

Yes

[zinc osprey]

right?

[serene sage]

I mean let's not pretend that ping has been a well utilized system and everyone on the team is very responsible in the things they ping before the keystone.

[final locust]

I need a good braced autogun build for veteran

tanky preferably

[terse idol]

But it comes down the same tree as a support ult

[sharp epoch]

To repkace focus target

[zinc osprey]

nahhh

[umbral scaffold]

Ew no

[serene sage]

At least now, if anything, you are somewhat incentivized to highlight tough targets

for debuff

instead of before

[tiny summit]

So what is the argument that there should be no team oriented keystones?

[serene sage]

where you just ping whatever

[slow garden]

I just want the other two auras to be changed on vet, into things that are. Yknow.

Actually useful.

[sharp epoch]

but deincentivized to ping important but weaker targets

[final locust]

Anyone got a good tanky vet build that uses the braced autogun

[slow garden]

Survivalist is so good because it's alternatives are dogshit

[umbral scaffold]

Hardly, they die the same and refresh stacks the same

[terse idol]

Bruh I actually like focus fire 🥹

[serene sage]

yeah, though imma be real, I ping every fking thing I see for stack refresh

[tiny summit]

5% any stat vs free bullets is always gonna be ass

[terse idol]

I mean sorry

Take it down

Woops

[slow garden]

Yeah. My point exactly friend.

[serene sage]

and even before that, I ping for visual clarity

so I can shoot

[slow garden]

It's why I want those auras changed entirely

[frank ether]

remove survivalist

problem solved

[umbral scaffold]

idfk add a finesse aura in its place instead

[serene sage]

keystone doesn't change how I play, except now I get rewarded for it (and before you ask, no I don't bind ping to left click, that's troll)

[slow garden]

[sharp epoch]

killing pinged targets dont givestacks for focus target, only for redirect fire

[frank ether]

yes

remove survivalist

[serene sage]

that's what I meant

for redirect fire

[slow garden]

Imo bad idea, ogryn already hogs all the ammo

[sharp epoch]

its a low damage buff so meh

[bronze atlas]

My friend thought this was a genius idea and i had to threaten to stop playing with them

[frank ether]

I'm tired of garbo zealot/ogryn players trashtalking me because they can't manage ammo

nuke survivalist

[terse idol]

I mean, I just don't spam ping

You got eyes you gotta use em 🥹

[slow garden]

Sounds like a you problem

Dont let em get to you bro

They trash

Do you thing and be the hero they dont deserve

[umbral scaffold]

Flashback to that one Reddit thread I saw of the guy saying people not using survivalist and revive shout aren't playing vet, I quote, "as intended"

[trim steppe]

Don't defend bad design just because you get a buff. Use it but call it out for what it is. If you defend bad design and you'll continue getting served bad design

[bronze atlas]

People whine about not having survivalist ok buddy i'll queue into you on my charge psyker

[terse idol]

I dont take revive shout no more

33% cooldown on your 100 toughness gain

[umbral scaffold]

It's not bad design, the way to use tags hardly changed and we get damage and toughness on top of it

[terse idol]

Bad

[slow garden]

I think it's a balancing thing, personally.

[final locust]

Anyone got a good tanky vet build that uses the braced autogun
all my previous vet builds are gone

[sharp epoch]

Revive shout is just shooting urself in the foot

[karmic musk]

They should just put the basic Survivalist in, 0.75% ammo per kill

[slow garden]

Many classes imho need better balance on their talent trees.

Not just vet

[trim steppe]

Objectively untrue but ok

[bronze atlas]

The biggest problem with survivalist is its just better than the other auras by a huge margin

[strange grove]

I'm liking this brauto, it really racks up the elite kills, and killsteals from others lol

[karmic musk]

Any Vet tank just goes Exhilarating Takedown, Confirmed Kill and Iron Will

[slow garden]

There's only like 2 good builds per class, and most of them share the same key abilities.

[strange grove]

https://tenor.com/view/drink-milkshake-drink-it-up-there-will-be-blood-daniel-day-lewis-gif-15323848

[sharp epoch]

I think ogryn and zealot are fine, psyker kinda needs some damage reduction options

[terse idol]

Hmm?
I'm gonna say it but if you're pinging 10 pings a second that's not normal

[umbral scaffold]

Then tell me

[terse idol]

Whoever's binding left click to ping be my guest

[slow garden]

Hmm, I agree on zealot being okay mostly

[terse idol]

But thats not intended

[slow garden]

Ogryn I disagree on, but I'm also not the best person to comment on his balance situation.

I just got him to 30

[trim steppe]

"it's not intended" but that's the result, that's bad design lol

[serene sage]

Eh too much of a slippery slope argument for me. It's a small aspect of the game, not a systematic failure. I also do have fun using it, so what's the harm? Just because it doesn't fit neatly into the "this is how it should be used" box doesn't mean the game is fundamentally flawed.

[slow garden]

My initial impressions are he is quite underwhelming though, so far.

[bronze atlas]

Left click ping on laspistol...

[terse idol]

Kick back is a tad broken rn

[slow garden]

Compared to Vet.

[sharp epoch]

The keystone incentivizes pinging more hp harder to kill targets, but directly disincentivizes pinging weaker but important targets like snipers or bombers

[slow garden]

Kickback only good og weapon imo so far.

[terse idol]

I mean, I can win without spam pinging...

[umbral scaffold]

It literally doesn't

[slow garden]

All other og weapons are bad

[bronze atlas]

Ogryn is invincible and its clubs are cracked

[frank ether]

''you're trolling if you're not running survivalist''

[sharp epoch]

Wasting 8 stacks on a sniper is like useless

[karmic musk]

Technically true

[terse idol]

I don't play with most vets on damnation that ping 5 enemies per second

[sharp epoch]

they die in ont shot

[frank ether]

mf half my builds don't need that aura

[sharp epoch]

and your gonna have to wait 16 seconds for full stacks again

[terse idol]

I aint gonna fall into the tax

[karmic musk]

I played with a Vet that didnt ping the sniper that was killing him

[terse idol]

Its so common that a vet runs it that most lobbies will have 1 vet that runs it anyways

[karmic musk]

He was trying to aim so hard

[slow garden]

Tbh I think all the vet keystones except the melee tree one are trash

[rugged portal]

You team still gets a buff if they die and the stacks regen fast. It doesn't really matter.

[slow garden]

I dont even take a keystone on my vet build

I get the 20% revive speed and nades instead

[terse idol]

Take it down ss good, weapon spec is good
Focus fire is clumky

[sharp epoch]

the buff is 12% damage at max stacks but its pretty meh for a point

[tiny summit]

He's bringing up the point that the keystone in a min-maxing scenario where we know those players exist, it promotes a certain behavior like spam pinging. Promoting behavior for min-maxing is bad

[slow garden]

Notably this comes from the perspective of someone who plays auric damnation on his veteran

[final locust]

I mean like, specific perks and stuff to get, like, pictures of the build ingame

but thanks however

[slow garden]

Where I think only one keystone is viable, and thats the melee one

[sharp epoch]

you need two points to get 12% too ^^

[slow garden]

On lower difficulties you can totes use whatever

[terse idol]

Its 4% 8 stacks
32%

[sharp epoch]

for redirect fire

[terse idol]

Oh sorry

[slow garden]

And yknow you do you, its just my personal opinion bae.

[strange grove]

focus fire is only good for monstrosities and bosses

its trash otherwise

[karmic musk]

It depends on how much you want to rely on your melee weapon, if you not going to use melee to kill Carapace then you need Rending for your bauto + Krak

[sharp epoch]

np, I just think there's better ways to spend points

[terse idol]

I'm gonna say it, be good enough and everything works even in auric 5

[slow garden]

Eehhhhh

[keen sedge]

i found out you can go runs with only using the bayonet as a melee

[slow garden]

Technically true but also a bad core argument imo for balancing

[terse idol]

True

[finite imp]

AFFIX BAYONETS

[slow garden]

<3

[terse idol]

I will admit true

[strange grove]

which mk? Cuz mk3 is horrid

[slow garden]

All good brother

[finite imp]

TALLY HOE LADS

[keen sedge]

mk2

[slow garden]

TALLY HOE LADS, THIS IS THE LIFE!!!

[finite imp]

FOR KING AND BIG E

[sharp epoch]

thats how you get carpal tunnel guys

[terse idol]

The game gets easier if you play meta, than go with the things that may be useable, but man I would hate to try to balance

[delicate moat]

rare run with good AM teammates. holy shit support plasma goes so hard

[final locust]

My melee weapon on vet is only really a backup for when theres a massive horde

[willow badger]

smash or pass

[final locust]

I focus on guns for that stuff

[sharp epoch]

ps3 🤢

[slow garden]

Same cuban

[keen sedge]

why i bring chainsaw for MRRRR RVRRRRRR ZZZZZZZZ RRR RR RRRRRRRRRRR

[slow garden]

Guns for anything I can ping except poxwalkers and dogs

[delicate moat]

ps3 gang

[umbral scaffold]

• Running the redirect fire modifier for the teamwide damage buff will already give you 7.5% damage against everything in the game at 5 stacks and 12% at 8
• Redirect fire will refresh and add stacks for enemies you kill
• You don't need the keystone's tag damage to kill enemies properly (even bosses), this is like that argument that unless you are running the highest amount of damage possible your damage is "bad", and we're in a game where all we do is roll imperfect weapons where we are okay with missing stuff like 5% damage

Tagging has not changed, it had something added and there are people treating it as a mandatory baseline

[tiny summit]

Delete it so you can't have the satisfaction I want

[karmic musk]

What's the deal with Focus Fire allowing you to tag the same target multiple times

[terse idol]

Oversight

[slow garden]

Just an oopsy in the code

[terse idol]

They'll fix it the next patch (vanguard patch pls)